++++ Start of thread 18772 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42501 (thread 18772) ---- From: Ed Bell Date: 1998-05-01 18:58:00 Subject: Up to my knees (LaMantian in size) GG's: Quick version: I've been edge jointing some boards. Long version: After some vacillating (and a near turn to the Dark Side), I picked up work on my bench again Wednesday night. It was raining, there wasn't anything on television worth killing brain cells over and I've been having the urge to build something lately. It's based on one of the plans in the back of The Workbench Book. I think it's the Kirby, but I'm not sure now. (Hey, I started on it a few months ago, ok?) I used 4x4's for the legs, and 2x4's for the stretchers, all through mortised. I finished the base of it a while back and have spent the time between now and then trying figure out how to put the top together. Because this is my bootstrap bench, earmarked for eventual use as a platform for some tailed metal-working apprentices, the top is going to be edge-jointed 2x6's, long side down. I'm using all pine because it won't matter much that it's soft, and I expect it to get pretty grungy once it finds its permanent home. Because the thing is 6' long, and because it is my first bench, I was having a real problem figuring out how to edge joint the boards. It's kind of hard to plane something that long when you don't have a bench, you know? So for a while I thought I'd run them through the mechanized round-bladed unit. But for a number of reasons--safety being foremost in my mind (I like having 10 fingers on two hands)--I knew that wasn't something to try by myself. And I was getting impatient waiting for someone to volunteer to help me. So I threw caution to the wind and decided to try to do it by hand. As I said, the base was finished, but I was uncertain it would be steady enough to stand up to the forces of a man-sized jointer. I figured that I could clamp the board I was going to joint to the front legs, and maybe clamp another to the back two legs to help prevent racking. Well, very much to my satisfaction and pleasure (and surprise), it turned out that I didn't even need to clamp a second board to it--the one I was jointing was enough to stabilize any movement. Now to select the arsenal. I've had a #7 (a good sized jointer, Jeff, but not the biggest) for a while. I bought it a couple of years ago, at the only garage sale that I've found to have any significant tools, when I thought my father would live to be ninety (into the next millennium, as it were). You see, he had his fathers #8 (the *real* man's jointer, Jeff), and while I knew it would be mine someday (he'd told me this regularly since I was just a little GIT), it didn't seem right to ask him for it early. That would have felt like I was rushing something that I really wasn't interested in having happen anyway, you know? Well it turned out it didn't need any rushing. Within a year of when I bought that #7, my father was lying lifeless in front of me and I'm thinking "Take the tools, and give me back my father. We weren't finished yet." So it seemed like a good time to haul the monster out of it's cozy little home in my grandfather's toolbox. Now you have to understand, this plane has held me in awe me for as long as I can remember. When I was a kid, I couldn't imagine someone using such a behemoth. After all, I could barely lift it. If my dad ever used it, I didn't witness it, which means it would have been last used just before the end of the Big War, when my grandfather retired as a Master Joiner from the Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners (I'm told he was a charter member of the Springfield, Il Local #16). So I wasn't real sure what it would take to get it tuned. First thing I did was flip the lever cap and pull out the blade and cap iron assembly. I turned the blade over to find a meticulously hollow ground, straight edge. So I guess Grandpa didn't much believe in crowned jointer blades, or even in easing the corners. I unscrewed the cap iron, rotated it away from the edge and removed it. Looking at the back of the blade I could see where the cap iron had sat, but otherwise it was pretty shiny. Not bad for 50+ years in a box. At this point I was itching to make some shavings with it, so I lapped both sides quickly, reassembled the blade and cap iron and dropped it into place. Reinstall the lever cap, and we're ready to go. Now the edges of the board were pretty rough. For the initial work I chose a #4 (medium sized smoother, Jeff). A #5 (jack plane, Jeff) would probably make more sense, but this smoother is so nice to use. After a few minutes working it over with that, were ready to make some long shavings. Well I can't describe how it felt to use that plane for the first time. It was adjusted a little rank at first, but I backed the adjuster off a bit and pretty soon I'm making some nice wispy curlys. I doubt my grandfather thought about it much; he was an eminently practical man, I'm told, and not one to romance about such things. Besides, he was struggling to make a living. During those last 11 years, through the Great Depression, keeping a steady job was enough to think about. But it sure feels sweet to me. There is a feeling of connection with a man I barely remember. After a while I finish up the first edge and move on to the next. Then on to the next. Next thing I know, I'm up to my knees in shavings. But these are not just ordinary shavings. No garbage can for them, they have a special sacrificial role to play. The wife of my best man (and friend) is a potter who does Raku firing, and she has agreed to make me a special piece to hold some of my father's ashes. It will be these shavings that she uses for that significant vessel. And you know, I think maybe I'll have to find a place in the shop to keep it. After all, that's where my dad was happiest. Ed -- Ed Bell | Trying to dig his heels in while Cincinnati Bell Information Systems | sliding down that slippery slope. Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ++++ End of thread 18772 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18773 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42502 (thread 18773) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-01 19:09:00 Subject: Who needs $100.0 anyways mini gloat - when home at lunch to check on Oreo the cat and stopped at several garage sales! the first three had crap but the fourth had promise! I picked up a Keuffel & Esser Co - Germany inking pen, and a handful of nibs for $1.00 a BoardMaster Universal Drafting Machine with 2 set of rules $5.00 and a drefting set - made in France - no other markings $20.00 in a nice wooden box 8.5 x 4.75 x 1.75 that contains a tray with Divider 6" with removable arm Inking arm for above Pencil Arm for above that takes wood wrapped leads 3 Leads for above , they are about 1/16 " thick and are lead/graphite wrapped with wood Divider 4" Compas 2.5" with removable arm Pencil arm for above (similar to the on listed under 6" divider Ink pen for above divider point for above And 2 other inking piints that I cannot figure out what they go with And an extension bar All of these tools are very well made and the points are triangular shaped and are /have been dipped in Chrome/?Zinc UNDER the tray was a 6.5 x 7 x 3.x 30/60 angle made of wood 1/16th inch thick and an interesting 6" x 1 1/8 in rule/protractor, the outside edges are marked for use as a protractor and the inside has a rule with the markings 10, 20 ...90 and the letters C H O at one end. the rulings are not centimeter or inch - fro the begining of 10 to the end of 20 is 1/16 in longer than an inch Thats it I think any ideas on an ID for the drafting set?? Aaron -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18773 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18774 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42504 (thread 18774) ---- From: Mike Weaver Date: 1998-05-01 19:19:00 Subject: Re: I butchered my bench...on purpose (warning, shill ;-) Patrick Olguin Odeen@c... writes: > ...laminating, stop your fussing. Go out and find yourself a big wide > slab of 8/4 yellow birch. It's nasty stuff to plane (It's the Klaus Von > Bulow of woods, owing to it's reversal of grain), but it's plenty heavy > and really hard. The bottom line is, get a big-ass hunk of wood. Mine > was 15" wide, 8' long, and cost me about $70. If anyone is one the east coast, oh, near Frederick, MD, you might want to give Ted Scott a shout . This Galoot has some reclaimed old growth white oak floor joists that would be just the ticket... I bought a few a while ago, and they are nice... There will be a couple-a-three nots, and some surface checking, but when the planks are 3.5"x11"x11' long, two of them will make a great bench. (Even if you get Ted to use his 16" tailed jointah to flatten one face, you'd end up with a top that's at least 2.5" thick finished!) Had I known about this wood *before* I bought the maple I used, I might have just slapped two planks together, all Paddy-like. I am using two strips for the back of the bench, some for endcaps, and the tai vise parts will be made from this old growth white oak. I'll post pictures when I get some taken, etc (the top is still in 2 pieces, and the vise isn't built yet). I have no financial connection to Ted (other than I'm about to buy a somewhat large batch of this myself, and call a Woodmizer), yada, yada. I'm just trying to alert the other area galoots to some nice wood. Later, -Mike ----------------- Michael P. Weaver Email: mikew@u... Database Program Administrator Phone: (410) 455-6863 Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250 Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's. ++++ End of thread 18774 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18775 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42506 (thread 18775) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-01 19:54:00 Subject: PS Was dont need no $100 the protractor rule says REVES & SONS in a circle - with ONE SHILLING inside the circle -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18775 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18776 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42512 (thread 18776) ---- From: Brent D. Beach Date: 1998-05-01 20:40:00 Subject: Stanley Parts I got a plane, a #5-1/2C at the auction last night ($12.50 - there was no one else there interested in old tools, so was bidding against the junk dealers) that appears to have some replacement parts. Perhaps everyone else noticed this! The lever cap has a cast 2 1/4 on the underside. It looks like a Stanley lever cap, but the spring metal is blued. The frog has cast into the underside 5 1/2. Never seen this on a frog before. Anyone seen these marks on castings? Brent Brent Beach, Victoria, BC, CA ---- Start of Message 42514 (thread 18776) ---- From: Jim Cook Date: 1998-05-01 17:01:00 Subject: RE: Stanley Parts >I got a plane, a #5-1/2C at the auction last night ($12.50 - there >was no one else there interested in old tools, so was bidding >against the junk dealers) that appears to have some replacement >parts. Perhaps everyone else noticed this! > >The lever cap has a cast 2 1/4 on the underside. It looks like a >Stanley lever cap, but the spring metal is blued. > >The frog has cast into the underside 5 1/2. Never seen this on >a frog before. > >Anyone seen these marks on castings? Brent, This should be a gloat, especially if this is Canadian $. 2-1/4" is the size of the cutter on a 5-1/2, and if I'm not mistaken, the 5-1/2 is the only bench plane using this size, so both lever cap and frog are often stamped this way. Them's the right parts. Jim (who can envy a gloat with the best of them) ---- Start of Message 42583 (thread 18776) ---- From: Brent D. Beach Date: 1998-05-03 00:28:00 Subject: Re: Stanley Parts On Fri, 01 May, Jim Cook wrote: >>I got a plane, a #5-1/2C at the auction last night ($12.50 - there > >This should be a gloat, especially if this is Canadian $. Although this was a type 12, it is not a gloat. This is the very first time I have seen a corrugated plane in which the corrugations were not uniform: here there are full depth at the toe and heel, but almost non-existant at the mouth. Sure enough, the plane is concave by about the standard corrugation depth. This means lapping in a big way. I plan on getting a long AlO 50 grit belt, gluing it to a 2x8, lapping by working along the full 5 or 6 feet. No sense trying to remove this much error on 12" on a glass plate. OR SHOULD I? The result will not really have any corrugations left. However, right now it is unsuable, which probably explains its excellent condition. No, all in all, not a gloat. However, the type 9 #4 for $10 might be. Or the crispy Sargent VBM #6 and MF #09 for $20? Naw, the gloat is the type 5 #8C for $22.50. Brent Brent Beach, Victoria, BC, CA ---- Start of Message 42610 (thread 18776) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-04 00:32:00 Subject: Re: Stanley Parts Brent Beach got a #5 1/2C cheap, but... > Sure enough, the plane is concave by about the standard > corrugation depth. >OR SHOULD I? That's an awful lot of cast iron to remove just to get maximum mileage out of a gloat, IMO. Other options: keep it as a non-user ;) or sell it and buy more a suitable user, perhaps less pristine, with the same cash. I know, I know: the thrill of the hunt (and stubborn pride) makes us all especially fond of those pieces we snagged at a bargain. Still, I've poured an awful lot of good elbow grease and WD-40 down the drain on basketcase fixer-uppers that never really made it as awesome users. Maybe the idea of long hours of lapping appeals to you, or maybe not. I suppose as long as you think of it as a labor of love, you can justify it. Cheers, Don ---- Start of Message 42613 (thread 18776) ---- From: Chris Winter Date: 1998-05-04 02:53:00 Subject: Re: Stanley Parts At 08:32 PM 5/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >I know, I know: the thrill of the hunt (and stubborn pride) makes us all >especially fond of those pieces we snagged at a bargain. Still, I've >poured an awful lot of good elbow grease and WD-40 down the drain on >basketcase fixer-uppers that never really made it as awesome users. Agreed - and sometimes just the opposite is the case. I have some flea market finds such as a screwed and plated wooden spokeshave that I got for 1/4 the price of one from a tool shop and it WAY outperforms the later. Isn't it amazing how certain tools just work better! I have a type 11 #3 that I got at Brimfield a few years ago for $15 that needed a bit of tlc. It is simply the best smoother I've used next to an infill. And conversely how other tools just seem to disappoint. The fact that some tools survived in such good shape may tell a tale of why some tools of marginal usability in a given production run remained in little used shape. Enjoy the day. Chris Winter Let's Talk Business Network, Inc. http://www.ltbn.com "Your Entrepreneurial Support Community" Provide timeless "Road to Success" audio content free to your web site visitors. Visit http://www.LTBN.com/affiliate.htm ++++ End of thread 18776 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18777 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42513 (thread 18777) ---- From: Don Groves Date: 1998-05-01 20:49:00 Subject: Gloat, or not? Hello on the Porch, This noon, while returning home from my Friday AM gig of delivering Meals-On-Wheels to home-bound seniors, I drove buy a sign that said 'Barn Sale'. About 100 yards later my brain kicked in and said, "Stop you idiot!". I turned around and drove up the drive to the barn. I asked the guy sitting at the door if he had any woodworking tools. He pointed to a bench containing only a couple of old tailed drills. I shrugged and turned to leave but then he said he had an old drill that he had forgotten to put out. Turned out to be a Millers Falls #12 breast drill. I asked him how much and he said $8.00, so now it's sitting on my workbench. It's definitely not crispy, but it's not total junk either. Most of the original finish remains. The crank arm is connected by a couple of short hex head bolts and someone has braised it into place. The crank arm is also twisted and bent a little but I think it can be straightened once I can get it off. The gears all appear to be in good shape. Both wooden handles are gone. The front handle is now a piece of broom stick that has been epoxied on. The crank handle is just a steel sleeve bolted on, probably the sleeve that the original handle was mounted to. The thing works, although it's sort of jerky, should work fine once it's cleaned up and lubricated and I can turn new handles. So, porch dwellers, is this worth gloating over or am I just out eight bucks? Also, any suggestions on how to go about reconditioning this thing will be very welcome. Don Groves Apprentice Galoot ++++ End of thread 18777 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18778 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42515 (thread 18778) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-01 21:20:00 Subject: RE: Treadle lathes (was: Barter gloat) I have seen a number of email flurries over the past months wanting information on building a treadle lathe. There are plans (sources mentioned before - Roy's book, "Boys Book of Things to Make and Do", and others I forget). The lathe is a very simple machine in its most basic form - humans were making them long before Jesus Christ lived, so I think we all can do it if we really try! Here is a basic list of ingredients: 1. Stand -cast iron or wood, can even be your current workbench or Workmate if you desire. For comfort make the lathe about waist high for spindle turning, chest high for bowl (faceplate) turning. 2. Ways (or bed) - again, cast iron or wood. Size isn't that important here, the essential bit is having the top surface completely planar (so the tailstock center can line up with the headstock center). 3. Tailstock. Again, can be made from cast iron or wood. At its most basic, just a hole through a block of wood that can be mounted on the ways is all you need. More elaborate would be some rack and pinion or wedge device for adjusting the tailstock center in and out, live center, cam adjustment for aligning center to headstock center, etc. 4. Toolrest. Simple flat stock with ability to adjust for height, and in/out. I'd suggest metal here because this part gets some wear. Bar stock would be suitable and cheap. 5. Drive train. Pole lathe for reciprocating action, flywheel for constant rotary action. I'd suggest flywheel, and this is probably the hardest part to make or find (maybe tied with the headstock). Flywheel weight needs to be on the outside rim as much as possible. Maybe a car wheel could be used?? Leather or nylon belting can be used to transmit power to the headstock pulleys. 6. Headstock. Here is where I would spend the money to buy a mandrel of some type, as sold in Woodcraft catalog and other places. Ball bearings are nice, but not required. Go hard core and hollow out a chunk of lignum vitae if you're still one of the galoot types that walks hunched over; otherwise, putting your money into metal at this point will pay off. If you're serious about this lathe being a long-term user, use a standard morse taper in the headstock to accept many types of centers. Outside of this, use a standard thread pitch like 1-1/4x8 to accept various faceplates. That's it! Put it all together and you have yourself a lathe! Steve ++++ End of thread 18778 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18779 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42516 (thread 18779) ---- From: Dave Wolverton Date: 1998-05-01 21:28:00 Subject: Treadle lathe talk I find it interesting that (at least in what he has written and what others have written about him) Michael Dunbar eschews power tools for his Windsor chairmaking, yet uses an electron-powered lathe for turning. His justification for using handtools (such as bowsaws in place of a bandsaw) is that he does the work to feed his family, but he can do the work just as fast by hand, its not just that he's trying to "be" a 19th century woodworker. That would imply that in the case of turning, he feels he can get the same results in less time with the electric lathe. I guess I find that believeable. So those of us interested in treadle lathes are not being very practical, eh? dave -- Dave Wolverton Lucent Technologies, Holmdel, NJ Email: dwolverton@l... Phone: (732) 949-1125 ---- Start of Message 42517 (thread 18779) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-01 21:37:00 Subject: RE: Treadle lathe talk Dave writes: So those of us interested in treadle lathes are not being very practical, eh? I'm not sure what Michael Dunbar's reasons are for using power, but I can say the treadle lathe does have its advantages. For example, in thread cutting, having the ability to slow or speed the revolutions is very helpful. In much ornamental turning work, especially when indexing a pattern around a workpiece, the headstock is fixed anyway so all you need to "treadle" is the revolving cutterhead held in the sliderest - this is pretty easy work (although most professional ornamental turners have indeed motorized even this bit). And, of course, in power outages or in areas where power isn't available you always have the option of continuing to work (provided you placed your lathe near a natural light source). Steve ---- Start of Message 42521 (thread 18779) ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 1998-05-01 22:14:00 Subject: RE: Treadle lathe talk Steven writes: > For > example, in thread cutting, having the ability to slow or speed the > revolutions is very helpful. How exactly does one cut threads on treadle (or any wood) lathe? I always thought that there has to be a mechanism that sinchronizes movement of the chisel that cuts thread with the varying speed of revolving spindle. I don't see such gizmos on treadle lathes, so are threads cut freehand? Eddie ---------------------------------------- Adria Tools - High Quality Dovetail Saws http://www.woodworking.com/adria/ ---- Start of Message 42539 (thread 18779) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-02 01:07:00 Subject: RE: Treadle lathe talk How exactly does one cut threads on treadle (or any wood) lathe? I always thought that there has to be a mechanism that sinchronizes movement of the chisel that cuts thread with the varying speed of revolving spindle. I don't see such gizmos on treadle lathes, so are threads cut freehand? Eddie - Yes. ---- Start of Message 42591 (thread 18779) ---- From: Kenneth Watkins Date: 1998-05-03 10:42:00 Subject: RE: Treadle lathe talk On Fri, 1 May 1998, Eddie Sirotich wrote: > > How exactly does one cut threads on treadle (or any wood) lathe? I > always thought that there has to be a mechanism that sinchronizes > movement of the chisel that cuts thread with the varying speed of > revolving spindle. I don't see such gizmos on treadle lathes, so are > threads cut freehand? > You might check out an article by Richard Starr in the September/October issue of FWW, (No. 60, 1986) "Chasing Large Wooden Threads, an alternative to tap and die". It's freehand work, but the tool is a scraper that looks like a thread gage on the end of a chisel. You've just got to get the left to right freehand rate in sync with the rotation of your lathe and you've got threads. I've never tried it. As a matter of fact, the stumbling block for me has been stopping to make the tools required to do it. If you can make a saw though (and I here you can) these tools are probably child's play. I've got dibs on any unwanted prototypes. :) Kenneth ---- Start of Message 42648 (thread 18779) ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 1998-05-04 12:59:00 Subject: Re: Treadle lathe talk Dave said: > > I find it interesting that (at least in what he has written and > what others have written about him) Michael Dunbar eschews power > tools for his Windsor chairmaking, yet uses an electron-powered > lathe for turning. His justification for using handtools (such > as bowsaws in place of a bandsaw) is that he does the work to > feed his family, but he can do the work just as fast by hand, its > not just that he's trying to "be" a 19th century woodworker. That > would imply that in the case of turning, he feels he can get the > same results in less time with the electric lathe. I guess I > find that believeable. So those of us interested in treadle > lathes are not being very practical, eh? > Well I haven't got through all the mail yet, and someone else may have addressed it, but look for a trip report on building a bow lathe sort of like the one in one of Roy's books, tomorrow. Teacher was Don Weber in Ernie Conover's shop. Don claims to do a chair leg in 4 1/2 minutes, but he has been practicing for a while... I think the point with Mike was a cheap lathe will work and there wasn't much info about things like treadle lathes when he was setting up. Also there are a _lot_ of turnings in his chairs. Last year when I asked, he can do a chair in 10 hours, but 3 of those hours are turnings. Compare to cutting out a seat with a bowsaw in 5 minutes, and bandsaw is far more expensive and not a whole lot faster. But you are right, everything else is quicker and easier with handtools unless you are Thos. Moser doing 5-axis CNC for your chair seats. And the volume you need for _that_ isn't woodworking any more, it's basic manufacturing. Esther eoh@k... ---- Start of Message 42662 (thread 18779) ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 1998-05-04 14:18:00 Subject: RE: Treadle lathe talk Kenneth writes: >You might check out an article by Richard Starr in the September/October >issue of FWW, (No. 60, 1986) "Chasing Large Wooden Threads, an alternative >to tap and die". It's freehand work, but the tool is a scraper that looks >like a thread gage on the end of a chisel. You've just got to get the left >to right freehand rate in sync with the rotation of your lathe and you've >got threads. I've never tried it. As a matter of fact, the stumbling block >for me has been stopping to make the tools required to do it. If you can >make a saw though (and I here you can) these tools are probably child's >play. I've got dibs on any unwanted prototypes. :) So that is how it's done, it sounds quite simple and would be fun to try it. As for new tool making, I'll have to skip this opportunity because for next few months I'll be doing bunk beds and completing all those projects started who knows when. Yep, the new baby is coming and the time is running out! Eddie Bunk beds R us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Adria Tools - High Quality Hand Tools http://www.woodworking.com/adria ++++ End of thread 18779 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18780 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42523 (thread 18780) ---- From: Bob Brode Date: 1998-05-01 22:41:00 Subject: H&R arcs [was RE: Use of Wood Molding Plane] Curt Flowers: > Blades of 'rounds' (and hollows, for that matter) are 1/6 of a circle. Most of the later nineteenth century British H&Rs that I've measured depart from this conventional formula for sizes above about 1". The radii are considerably bigger than the width of cut, i.e. they're less than 1/6 of a circle. Considerably less for the biggest sizes. On the other hand, the few large American H&Rs I've got do seem to follow the 1/6 rule. Bob Brode ++++ End of thread 18780 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18781 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42527 (thread 18781) ---- From: rwolfe Date: 1998-05-01 19:43:00 Subject: Chief Ogontz Galoots, Someone asked a while ago about a wooden plane they found marked "Ogontz", a line of planes made by the Sandusky Tool Company. I was flipping through the latest edition to my still too small library (Ken Roberts' "Wooden Planes in 19th Century America"--thanks, Gary!) when I happened upon a reference to Ogontz planes. It is uncertain whether Ogontz planes were a line of second quality planes put out by Sandusky or whether it was a sales "gimmick". Roberts states, however, that many Ogontz planes are of equal or better quality than other surviving Sandusky planes. He believes Ogontz tools were marked starting in the 1870's as a marketing technique. These planes were named after Ogontz, an Indian chief of a tribe of Ottawas who lived in Sandusky, Ohio. Buried in a footnote is this other interesting little tidbit of history: Ogontz was a "mentor" to Jay Cooke, who financed the Union side of the Civil War, when Cooke was a boy at Sandusky. Cooke thought so much of Chief Ogontz that he named his estate at Philadelphia OGONTZ. Neat stuff! ++++ End of thread 18781 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18782 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42528 (thread 18782) ---- From: Doug Dawson Date: 1998-05-01 23:47:00 Subject: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? Anybody ever build any medieval torture machines or instruments? Out of wood and with ( mostly ) hand tools, of course. Anybody know of any sources for plans for this stuff? Actually, come to think of it, does any of this stuff ever show up in the used old-tool market? Patrick? Doug Dawson dawson@p... ---- Start of Message 42532 (thread 18782) ---- From: Ted Scott Date: 1998-05-01 19:59:00 Subject: Re: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? On 1 May 98 at 23:47, Doug Dawson wrote: > Actually, come to think of it, does any of this stuff ever show > up in the used old-tool market? Patrick? Well, I've seen thumb cuffs and beheading axes in one English oldtool auction. -Ted Wondering if the rack was made by the Cooper or the Joyner. ---- Start of Message 42542 (thread 18782) ---- From: FrankSronce Date: 1998-05-02 02:07:00 Subject: Re: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? Doug Dawson wrote: > Anybody ever build any medieval torture machines or instruments? > Out of wood and with ( mostly ) hand tools, of course. > > Anybody know of any sources for plans for this stuff? snippage> Doug, Don't do it. I know I have felt the same way at times, but no matter what your SWMBO has done, this is not the way to handle the problem. Unless she tried to use your NIB Stanley #1 to make potato slices or wasted your tool money on something less important like rent or food - that would be a different situation.. Frank (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ---- Start of Message 42544 (thread 18782) ---- From: Ed Bell Date: 1998-05-02 02:29:00 Subject: Re: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? Ted Scott wrote: > > On 1 May 98 at 23:47, Doug Dawson wrote: > > Actually, come to think of it, does any of this stuff ever show > > up in the used old-tool market? Patrick? > > Well, I've seen thumb cuffs and beheading axes in one English oldtool > auction. Did they have hanging holes? Ed -- Ed Bell | Trying to dig his heels in while Cincinnati Bell Information Systems | sliding down that slippery slope. Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ---- Start of Message 42605 (thread 18782) ---- From: Steve Noe Date: 1998-05-04 00:11:00 Subject: Re: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? Doug, I know it's the end of the semester, and all the Gnurrs come from the woodwork out to ask for extra credit to make up for the regular work they didn't do during the semester - but DON'T. If you must reduce the surplus population, please send the cadavers to me - collect. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis (who has to remember this is OldTools, not BioLab, so frogs are metal, and do NOT have a gastrocnemius) snoe749@i... ---- Start of Message 42608 (thread 18782) ---- From: Doug Dawson Date: 1998-05-04 00:23:00 Subject: Re: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? Earlier Frank wrote, > Doug Dawson wrote: > > Anybody ever build any medieval torture machines or instruments? > > Out of wood and with ( mostly ) hand tools, of course. > > > > Anybody know of any sources for plans for this stuff? > snippage> > Don't do it. I know I have felt the same way at times, but > no matter what your SWMBO has done, this is not the > way to handle the problem. Unless she tried to use your > NIB Stanley #1 to make potato slices or wasted your tool > money on something less important like rent or food - that > would be a different situation.. No, I would never hurt SWMBO. I was thinking more along the lines of a demonstration project for the neighbours. COME ON, ALL YOU AXE COLLECTORS!!!!! Doug Dawson dawson@p... ---- Start of Message 42609 (thread 18782) ---- From: Doug Dawson Date: 1998-05-04 00:25:00 Subject: Re: Medieval Torture Machines and Instruments? Earlier Ed wrote, > Ted Scott wrote: > > On 1 May 98 at 23:47, Doug Dawson wrote: > > > Actually, come to think of it, does any of this stuff ever show > > > up in the used old-tool market? Patrick? > > Well, I've seen thumb cuffs and beheading axes in one English oldtool > > auction. > Did they have hanging holes? Isn't that the general idea? Doug Dawson dawson@p... ++++ End of thread 18782 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18783 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42531 (thread 18783) ---- From: FrankSronce Date: 1998-05-02 00:30:00 Subject: Going to Canton? Texas Galoots (others ignore) If any of the Texas Galoots are going to Canton tomorrow, please e-mail me directly. I have a favor to ask. Frank (who went there yesterday, and spent my grand kids' inheritance) ++++ End of thread 18783 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18784 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42537 (thread 18784) ---- From: Rafael Sanchez Date: 1998-05-02 00:53:00 Subject: The voices within II so i'm sitting here late on a friday and still working - on one of those electronic daemons that Master Leach told his previous masters to KHA (you figure it out), yet he still uses to fill my requests. i'm mostly a lurker here even though i've posted a bio. so i read the posts about oldtools in the genes and geek galoots and it sets me to wondering. then i remember a thread that the aforementioned Patrick started about the voices within. i don't have any family history of woodworking. both of my parents came from farming backgrounds but none of that was ever passed on to us as they took manufacturing jobs. it was a real eye opener to me when i took my parents to Homestead Heritage in Waco, TX and being amazed at what my dad could teach me about the farm tools they had there. when we went back home, i showed my dad the handtools i had (small arsenal) and what could be accomplished with them. he was surprised that i actually could do some of the things i could. of course, he probably still remembers trying to teach me basic mechanics and me not wanting anything to do with it because it would get my hand dirty. so i'm rambling.... some folks on this email list have woodworking in their family history. some don't. that's cool - we all still got here and we decided hand tools would be a major part of that. or collecting them would. but i've rambled more... why do i choose woodworking? and why with handtools? the voices within... i don't know... all i can say is that it calms me to do so. relaxes me like nothing else does. not running (see my bio)... not anything else i've attempted. it's just a voice within. ++++ End of thread 18784 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18785 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42545 (thread 18785) ---- From: SANFORD MOSS Date: 1998-05-02 02:29:00 Subject: Auction Practices Just got back from a little Rhode Island tool auction, and while sitting with Paul Honore a little action took place that was new to us. The auctioneer raised up a box lot of beater molding planes and announced, "Indian Bidding". He started at $60 and came _down_ in $5 increments until he got a bid at $40 --"Sold". Is this a practice anywhere in galootdom? We found it kinda adds a poker-like element to the auction, and sure stifles bidding wars! Sandy (who finally got to sit _behind_ MofA at an auction) ++++ End of thread 18785 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18786 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42546 (thread 18786) ---- From: FrankSronce Date: 1998-05-02 03:24:00 Subject: THE TOOL - long Executive summary: Bought THE PLANE (and some other stuff) Long version: Doesn't everyone have one tool which they consider "THE TOOL"? It may be a tool you would use often. It may be a tool you would NEVER use. But in any case, it would be THE TOOL. In my case, it is one I first saw in Roger Smith's Vol I (page 67). It is a Bailey Tool Company corrugated Defiance block plane. But in this case, the corrugations are not straight. Instead they form the words "Bailey Tool Comp". When I first got Smith's book years ago and came across this plane, I showed the picture to my SWMBO and told her it was THE PLANE. I'll admit there have been others over the years which have caused me to lust for them temporarily, but they were never THE PLANE. Since I first saw that picture, I had only seen one of these in person - owned by a c*ll*ct*r who was not interested in selling. Until yesterday!! I took the day off Thursday and went to the Canton Trade Days (a Texas flea market covering approx. 150 acres). I had picked up a couple of items (craftsman-made tool chest, Jennings miter box with Jennings saw, and a Union X 6C) and was just wandering around talking to the few tool vendors there when I came accross THE booth. I was looking at some tools a gent had sitting on a table - just a few molding planes and a couple of transitionals. I didn't see anything of interest, but the sellor stepped up and says to be sure to look on the other side of the van; I have another table there. As I was looking over his table of Stanley # 3s, 4s, 5s, etc., he just happened to mention he did have one a little more unusual. Out of his glove compartment he pulled THE PLANE. It was in beautiful shape, cap not cracked, etc. And I had to have it. My wife looked at it and reminded me that it was THE TOOL. (We had even been talking about it earlier in the day when we saw a similar Defiance plane - but with a smooth bottom.) The blade on THE PLANE is not the original Defiance blade with the battleaxe trademark, and the knob is a replacement, but it was THE TOOL. Now it is MY TOOL. Sorry to use so much bandwidth, but I had to speak about this to someone who would understand. Surely on this porch, there are others who have their own ideas about what THE PLANE is. Surely with Paddy it is some type of Jack? And for Larry a Bed Rock #602C? Fess up, guys, what is it? Frank (scouring the dump for a battleaxe blade) ---- Start of Message 42549 (thread 18786) ---- From: Thomas E. McCluskey Date: 1998-05-02 11:39:00 Subject: Re: THE TOOL - long Frank & GGs The TOOL for me is a Stanley #55. Don't ask why because I don't know. Most folks seem to either love them or hate them. Maybe it was the old Stanley lit. "Planing mill in a box." Maybe it was the fact that it has lots of intricate parts and seemingly 100s of blades. Don't know but I got one. (Thanks, Bill Ghio.) Not a collectible, but in good user shape. Got all but one of first set of blades and all but eleven of the optional set. Paid way more than I usually do for a tool but got way more also. Fortunately, I don't have to rationalize liking this tool to this group. Tom - Member in good standing of the Ancient and Honorable order of Bottomfeeders (AHOB). (By permission) On Fri, 01 May 1998 22:24:26 -0500 FrankSronce sroncef@f... writes: >Executive summary: Bought THE PLANE (and some other stuff) ---- Start of Message 42550 (thread 18786) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-02 12:07:00 Subject: Re: THE TOOL - long FrankSronce wrote: > >Doesn't everyone have one tool which they consider "THE TOOL"? >..........But in any case, it would be THE TOOL. In my >case, it is one I first saw in Roger Smith's Vol I (page 67). It is a >Bailey >Tool Company corrugated Defiance block plane. But in this case, the >corrugations are not straight. Instead they form the words "Bailey >Tool Comp". >Now it is MY TOOL. >............Surely on this porch, there are >others who have their own ideas about what THE PLANE is. >Fess up, guys, what is it? There's one that my daughter might even be traded for and it has the name Thomas Granford stamped in the toe. As far as I know, there's only one of these suckers that survives and I'm sure it's beyond my budget. But there is another I've wanted: LN's version of the Stanley #164. I've been on Tom's waiting list since he first announced they would accept orders and talked to him on the phone about it when I got one of the first #2s he made. This week I got a phone call asking for an updated credit card expiration date. Seems they're shipping their first batch within a very few days. It isn't wood, but I'm still gonna get one. I don't care what anyone says about the 164, I have a specific use for it and I know how great a plane LN's #62 is. Larry Williams ---- Start of Message 42578 (thread 18786) ---- From: sbmarcus Date: 1998-05-02 22:36:00 Subject: Re: THE TOOL - long Thought long and hard. Can't narrow it down to one. Have three THE TOOLS, or, more accurately two THE PLANES and one THE SET OF CARVING TOOLS. I think that I've mentioned all of these in earlier posts. THE PLANE #1- Stanley 92, English model that I've owned and used since the late 50s. Known as Silverado and "desert island plane". I use this thing for more different jobs than any other tools I own. I once, on a dare, made an elaborate multi-story birdhouse out of poplar using nothing but Silverado and a dozuki saw. Took the blade out and used it as a chisel to cut mortises, and tenon shoulders; turned bars by chucking the plane in a vise and rotating the sticks into the blade at a skew angle, etc. Even made a dovetailed tray for the avian waste. I've even used it to scale fish. "Some Plane!" as Charlotte might have said. THE PLANE #2- 9" ebony coffin shaped smoother. Seems to weigh about 80 pounds. Throat just the right size to do either fine work or quick stock removal. Beautiful as a thoroughbred to look at, and always warm to the touch, which is no small thing on Maine winter mornings. Years ago I put the word out to all the local pickers and tool dealers that I was looking for a hum-dinger of an exotic-wood smoothing plane to replace my artful lignum vitae plane that went AWOL on a house restoration job site. I began to feel like a Pasha as supplicants kept arriving at my shop door bearing specimens on velvet cushions. All were close contenders, but none packed quite the punch I was looking for. After about two years of this I despaired of every finding what I wanted, when one day a dealer who I did restoration work for arrived with a very valuable piece of furniture that required some complicated inlay repair. As is the way with dealer folk he was leaving in two days and HAD to have the work done by then. "Impossible", I said, "I'd have to pull an all-nighter and a half to finish the thing!" "I'll pay you twice your usual fee." he responded, and, as I was about to brush him off "and I'll give you this." Saying which, he pulled the ebony smoother out of a drawer in the piece. He knew he had me, and I was at work before he was out the door. "By the way" he said over his shoulder as he was leaving, "I just bought this thing from Ralph Josephson. It was in his barn. Said that it belonged to his granddad, a shipwright." Ralph Josephson was a cattle dealer who's barn was about a 1/4 of a mile down the road from me. THE SET OF CARVING TOOLS- Basic set of 16 pre-WWI Addis carving tools that was brought me by another dealer who was wanting to rope me into a very elaborate carving project that required, among other things, that three men sat at benches for three days with blunted 12d common nails stippling the background of 26' of floriate and animal carved white oak frieze for an English Victorian banquet table. The sound of it almost drove us all crazy; the boredom of repeating the same pattern every foot or so was trying in the extreme, but I've never regretted it. Bruce ++++ End of thread 18786 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18787 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42548 (thread 18787) ---- From: Matt Prusik Date: 1998-05-02 04:18:00 Subject: Thanks from the Good Guys My Brothers & Sisters: Wanted to take a moment and thank all of you publically for your thanks WRT my advising Patrick Leach as to his legal bug tussle with The Stanley Works. Speaking for Pat, we're both glad it's over and B&G remains intact relatively unscathed. FWIW, I've been dog busy with ANOTHER big time litigation at the same time as Pat's; so I've been List absent. Hoping that that case is now put to bed, I should be around more often. While fortune does favor the bold, the best laid plans of mice and me do go astray, so keep an eye out for me around here and don't hesitate to give a ping and see if I'm still (virtually) alive. My sincere thanks to all once again. Matt ++++ End of thread 18787 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18788 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42551 (thread 18788) ---- From: Lodley Date: 1998-05-02 09:48:00 Subject: Off-Site Woodworking Although I have only a barely adequate bench, it serves my puposes, and like most is not easily portable. I have been asked to do some demonstration work at a church event where various hobbies would be shown. It does not have to involve much, but I am not sure how to set up for it. I once saw a demonstration at a tool meet of a No. 55 in action, and it was done only with a Work-Mate. Don't remember if it was stablized some way, but I would think that some weight would help. Has anyone had experience in this matter? I am thinking about using a thick bench-hook type device on a long folding table for some planing, but there again I think I will have to add some stability and weight even though it need only convey the idea and not a fininshed job. Any advice? Lloyd Henley ---- Start of Message 42552 (thread 18788) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-02 14:38:00 Subject: Re: Off-Site Woodworking At 09:48 AM 5/2/98 EDT, Lodley wrote: > Although I have only a barely adequate bench, it serves my puposes, and >like most is not easily portable. I have been asked to do some demonstration >work at a church event where various hobbies would be shown. It does not have >to involve much, but I am not sure how to set up for it. I once saw a >demonstration at a tool meet of a No. 55 in action, and it was done only with >a Work-Mate. Don't remember if it was stablized some way, but I would think >that some weight would help. Has anyone had experience in this matter? I am >thinking about using a thick bench-hook type device on a long folding table >for some planing, but there again I think I will have to add some stability >and weight even though it need only convey the idea and not a fininshed job. I'm looking at the same problem, having (been) volunteered to do a day's worth of 1 hour sessions at an upcoming historical camporee our Boy Scout council is having. Since this is the event that the candle lanterns (of previous message fame) are being made for, I am planning on basically showing that, and having the kids participate. I have a mental plan of a small bench that I've talked about before on here, I really should go measure it up (the original), but I won't have the time (I'll be lucky if the first couple of hours of sessions aren't on bench building). The design is sort of like a sawhorse on steroids. With a faceboard (some call them aprons) and a leg vice. Matter of fact, I'm off to the kiln to check on the availability of oak for the top piece. Will keep you apprised of how it works. Tony ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Intercourse, PA ________________________________________________________ ---- Start of Message 42555 (thread 18788) ---- From: Cylkowski&Broman Date: 1998-05-02 14:32:00 Subject: Re: Off-Site Woodworking > demonstration at a tool meet of a No. 55 in action, and it was done only with > a Work-Mate. Don't remember if it was stablized some way, but I would think > that some weight would help. Has anyone had experience in this matter? Now here's something that I actually know something about....i.e. making do with whatcha got....i.e. the dreaded Workmate. I built a removable table top for my own Workmate.......a flat piece of doubled-up plywood with a strip attached underneath. The strip is there to provide something for the Workmate to clamp onto. And if you make a "t" shaped strip....it has more stability. (strange ascii art follows) ___________ I____ _____I (top) _I I_ (clamping strip) I____I ("t" - which fits under Workmate clamping edge to keep top from flipping up) I've also made a bench hook in the same manner. The only problem, as suggested, is weight. It's too light. Which means you have to plane with one foot on the bottom rung of the Workmate. Which really limits the planing stroke. Dave Broman ---- Start of Message 42566 (thread 18788) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-02 17:50:00 Subject: Re: Off-Site Woodworking At 9:48 AM 5/2/98, Lodley wrote: >I have been asked to do some demonstration >work.... I am >thinking about using a thick bench-hook type device on a long folding table >for some planing, but there again I think I will have to add some stability >and weight As Tony has suggested when working with 11-15 yr-old boys, audience participation is the ticket. No skills required, only body mass. Have some of the watching folks "volunteer" to sit on or lean against whatever you rig up, for stability. It won't hurt them, and they will be able to get a vicarious feel for what you're doing. Much easier to move from that relatively passive mode to get people to try their hand at making a shaving with a well tuned plane. Sure to get oohs and aahs. With a little advance planning and a few scraps and C clamps, you could probably turn a reg'lar church basement folding table into a makeshift planing bench: slab of 3/4" plywood on top, strip clamped crossways for a stop; a 2x4 or whatever fits along the edge, under the lip to make an apron / faceboard, to which you can clamp the stock you want to edge joint or whatever. I've done something similar with Boy Scouts, and a galoot can get a little added kick from the wondrous shaking of heads from the Normite dads in attendance. Tom Holloway ---- Start of Message 42582 (thread 18788) ---- From: Tom Corey Date: 1998-05-03 00:02:00 Subject: Re: Off-Site Woodworking Dave wrote: "I've also made a bench hook in the same manner. The only problem, as suggested, is weight. It's too light. Which means you have to plane with one foot on the bottom rung of the Workmate. Which really limits the planing stroke." I bolted mine to a half sheet of pl*wo*d. You stand on the plywood deck while planing and it doesn't move aroud as much. Tom Corey ---- Start of Message 42588 (thread 18788) ---- From: Don Groves Date: 1998-05-03 05:45:00 Subject: Re: Off-Site Woodworking At 20:02 5/2/98 -0400, Tom Corey wrote re: workmate: > >I bolted mine to a half sheet of pl*wo*d. You stand on the plywood deck >while planing and it doesn't move aroud as much. I'm right now face glueing 2x4s to make 3" thick tops, one 9" by 42" and the other 6" by 42" to be bolted to the tops of my workmate. This will add mucho weight, although top heavy, plus raise the top to about planing height while retaining the clamping features of the workmate. Has anyone on the porch tried this before? What's really interesting here is that if you look at the last chapter of The Workbench Book, you'll see that if you add the thicker top plus Tom's plywood base, you come real close to having a Mark I Workmate, the original design. Possible uses could be for off-site work, a GIT bench, a second bench around the shop that you don't mind beating on, or a lot of other things. -- Don Groves Apprentice Galoot Mickey: "Lookin' real cool in that new suit, Yogi." Yogi: "You're not lookin' so hot yourself, Mick." ---- Start of Message 42606 (thread 18788) ---- From: Steve Noe Date: 1998-05-04 00:11:00 Subject: Re: Off-Site Woodworking Lodley writes Has anyone had experience in this matter? I am >thinking about using a thick bench-hook type device on a long folding table >for some planing, but there again I think I will have to add some stability >and weight even though it need only convey the idea and not a fininshed job. It so happens that I just finished up some boxes with slideing lids. I plowed the grooves with my #45. I don't really have a bench, just used a couple of old sawhorses. It worked, sort of. Wobbly and really insufficient control. Of course, the fact that these were of 1/2 inch pl*w**d didn't help. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis (who has to remember this is OldTools, not BioLab, so frogs are metal, and do NOT have a gastrocnemius) snoe749@i... ++++ End of thread 18788 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18789 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42554 (thread 18789) ---- From: Tom Corey Date: 1998-05-02 15:02:00 Subject: Galoot dreaming in Md - a bio Greetings Porch Dwellers, Hi, my name's Tom and I'm a tool addict. Unlike some on the list, I can find not one woodworker in my family tree. I live in Frederick, MD with SWMBO (Carole) and 2 canine critters. I am a warehouse mgr for a distributor of doors and windows to the building trades. I did my woodwork in the normite fashion until last year. All blame for my ride down the slippery slope rests with Gunterman. Saw an announcement on rec.norm about a 'make a spokeshave class' at Ted Scott's. Whats a spokeshave? I had no idea but it sounded like a fun way to meet some woodworkers. So I go and make a tool. About 10 mins. into the proceedings JG comes over, puts both his large mitts in the middle of my back, and shoves me down this huge slope. Thank you, John. I now find myself looking for estate sales and fleas. My latest addition is a 12" Noble backsaw from MofA. SWMBO took one look at it and said "old tools are always better". Am I lucky or what? I am the greenest of GITs so I will spend most of my time in lurk mode. The porch is just such a relaxing place. Tom Corey just say (tmPL) slippin' and slidin' and lovin' the ride ---- Start of Message 42568 (thread 18789) ---- From: TomPrice Date: 1998-05-02 14:10:00 Subject: Re: Galoot dreaming in Md - a bio Yet Another Tom wrote: >My latest addition is a 12" >Noble backsaw from MofA. SWMBO took one look at it and said "old tools >are always better". Am I lucky or what? I am the greenest of GITs so I >will spend most of my time in lurk mode. The porch is just such a >relaxing place. > >Tom Corey >just say (tmPL) slippin' and slidin' and lovin' the ride Welcome to the Porch, Tom. We here at the Support Group From Hell are ready to assist you in your slide down that slippery slope. Yep. When you really start to pick up speed in your slide towards the Abyss and the still rational part of your brain begins to panic and you begin to think that maybe you had better slow down before you find yourself in a flea market in say, Canton TX, about to spend an UnGodly Amount Of Money on a rare collectible plane or maybe sitting inside on a rainy day with a fresh paycheck in the bank and the insane urge to get dressed and mount a multi state drive-by looting of old tool haunts up through Maryland and into SE Pennsylvania when you really should be down in the shop cleaning up or sharpening that 50 cent D-7 Disston 'Lightweight' you got at the flea market where the vendors know you by name (Oh yes! This is really starting to get SCARY HERE) or hitting Friday flea markets and antique stores on your lunch hour and bringing back somewhat rusty Objects Of Desire and babbling about them to your coworker's who smile stiffly at you to cover their growing concern (Ohmigod he's really LOSING IT) and back away from you down the hallway before you get another rust stain on their carefully chosen Casual Attire For Friday or you find another Galoot who works nearby and you end up reinforcing each other's fixations on those Got To Have tools and you end up having clandestine meetings in the parking lot for Show 'n Tell Gloat sessions... Right. OK, yes, when you pick up speed on the slide, we'll all be at the bottom of the Abyss yelling helpful suggestions like "Point your toes, you'll go faster!" We're here to help and there are several special interest groups such as the Flat Sole Society and that bunch who own infills (I forget the acronym), yeah that group over there with the smoking jackets and the faux British accents, and the AHOB's (Ancient and Honorable Order of Bottomfeeders) and Dumpster Divers Anonymous. There is no end to this obses..er, _interest_. Truly. Yep, welcome to the Porch, it's good to have another East Coast Galoot on board. BTW, think carefully before you come over into the First State looking for tools. The local gendarmes are primed to interdict anyone with out-of-state plates and a Galoot hat on, or even anyone who looks like they might be a Galoot, and the SOP is a body cavity search. I'm told that they are very thorough. You'll need an escort. Email me or Steve Reynolds privately for available times and rates although it does look like we're booked up until about 2008 or so. Good luck with your bench. Cast iron legs are considered cheating over here on the Right Coast. Steve and I have been hand mortising his and we only started in, lessee... Right. OK then, your rocker is over there. Welcome! **************************** Tom Price Brakes For Rust The Flea Market Tactical Primer is featured at The Galoot's Progress: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html ---- Start of Message 42575 (thread 18789) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-02 16:43:00 Subject: Re: Galoot dreaming in Md - a bio At 11:02 AM -0400 5/2/98, Tom Corey wrote: >Greetings Porch Dwellers, Hey Tom, welcome to the Porch.... >I am the greenest of GITs so I will spend most of my time in lurk mode. awe shuck's you aint all _that_ green.. After-all, you DID make a pretty spiffy shave ;-) And Anybody that can survive 4+ hours in the same ship with me w/out leaking hemoglobin all over the place is defiantely all right in my book. ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 18789 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18790 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42556 (thread 18790) ---- From: Sutton Date: 1998-05-02 15:35:00 Subject: Re: How Big is Gunterized? Uhm...I'll testify. My ancient hand-me-down workbench had a 24" top when I got it (16" work space and 8" of tool/trash tray). I added a 1"x8" pine board to the back side with wooden brackets so I'd have, you know, enough horizontal area to do stuff. Mine's an against-the-wall bench. That board now serves primarily as a storage area for things that would be better stored elsewhere. These are the things that fall down when I plane, get knocked over when I move a piece around, etc. If I had the space to put the bench in the middle of the room I'd take the extra board off. BTW, I "solved" the tool/trash tray problem recently by cutting away the last four inches of the tray at the right end so I can sweep shavings through this chute into a wastebasket stationed below it (I used to have to fetch the shop vac). So tools wouldn't constantly be jumping through the chute, I carved and fitted a wooden plug that closes the hole and sits level with the main bench top. >My reasoning for the narrow top is that unoccupied horizontal >surfaces attract things. My wider bench quickly became >Gunterfied with clutter. >Whoa how did you figure THAT out!?!?!!? ++++ End of thread 18790 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18791 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42557 (thread 18791) ---- From: Sutton Date: 1998-05-02 15:40:00 Subject: re:Ogontz Plane Thanks! I've got the Ogontz with the Sandusky iron. It's a coffin shaped thing I picked up at an antique strore in Indianapolis. I bought it primarily for the nice heavy cast steel iron assembly. I'm debating whether to joint the bottom of the Ogontz (it's sloped) and use it as a smoother, or to make a woodie around the iron. David >Galoots, Someone asked a while ago about a wooden plane they found >marked "Ogontz", >... that he named his estate at Philadelphia OGONTZ. >Neat stuff! ++++ End of thread 18791 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18792 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42558 (thread 18792) ---- From: Sutton Date: 1998-05-02 15:41:00 Subject: Re: THE PLANE Congratulations on finding THE PLANE, but more importantly, congratulations on a world class SWMBO! Mine, too, is very supportive. David Sutton ++++ End of thread 18792 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18793 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42560 (thread 18793) ---- From: Dave Weisbord Date: 1998-05-02 18:10:00 Subject: Family Tree - Different Spin Regarding the current thread on ancestral woodworkers: I'm not aware of anyone in my family who was a woodworker. In fact growing up in a suburban, 95% Jewish neighborhood, wood was just that stuff you saw in the forest. My father was the only person I knew who had any craft-like skills. He made extremely intricate models, painted, mounted, and built display cases for them. Model making was his private time and I rarely got to watch for long. I just admired and was a bit intimidated by the final product. Surely I could never do anything like that. I had zero knowledge of the use of tools growing up. I heard all the jokes about Jews and tools and no doubt told a few myself. My one year in high school woodshop demonstrated to me my lack of any ability or interest in woodworking. I still remember fumbling with those planes. It seemed that the non-Jewish class members had more "inate" talent than I. As an adult, however, I developed a love of wood. I went after any chance to sand or refinish a piece of furniture or hardwood floors. Still knew nothing about how to use a tool or what most of them even were for. Years have past. I am making guitars as a serious hobby and even have a commissioned order for one. My sister, some years back, decided she wanted a business. She got the idea that she could make wooden crafty things and sell them at craft shows. Now well beyond the pukey duck stage, she has a very successful business which sells both at the retail and wholesale level. After retiring, my father didn't know what to do with himself. Taking a lesson from my sister, he began cutting wood, and now sells at the craft shows himself. My son is two and loves tools, always asking to see daddy's tools. When he's ready I'll teach him what I can and let him watch me make guitars as much as he wants. I guess our family background has changed! Dave Decades have gone by from my non-tool childhood and now all three of us work actively with wood. Maybe we do have carpenters in our ancestry. Dave ++++ End of thread 18793 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18794 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42561 (thread 18794) ---- From: John White Date: 1998-05-02 19:10:00 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Please explain this cobbler's hammer WHATSIT] > John--Thumb throbs like hell if I type too long. Basically from what I > read in the attachment, it should be pointed out that on a shoe-MAKER'S > hammer, the pane sticks out. French panes are "S" curved, German are > straight with a curve at the tip, and English style are pretty straight. > This typology emerges by 1750 and continues consistently right up to the > present day. So apparently does its use. This pane has always primarily > designed to be used to strike the edges of the outsole after it has been > stitched to the welt, but before it is finally trimmed. This creates a row > of tiny vertical dents in the moist leather edge (later removed during the > finishing process) which increases the psi of the hammer-blow on a > localized spot. This does two things: it "beds" the individual stitches > that hold the outsole on by compressing the leather tightly around the > stitch that passes vertically through the sole behind the blow, and > secondly, it compacts the fibers of the leather along the edge in general, > making it a harder, denser edge when finished. If you look at many older > shoe hammer panes on the very edge, they look all mushroomed over, like > they were used on something they shouldn't have been. This is intentional! > The pane on a new one is far too sharp and will actually cut the leather, > so the first thing most canny hands do is moderately pound the pane > repeatedly on an anvil of some sort to blunt that edge out a little. With > the decline in hand-sewn shoemaking, nobody much uses the pane for it's > intended purpose anyway, so many are no longer blunted by mushrooming-out. > > When the "Crispin" design appeared (again late 19th c.), a great multitude > of "One Trick Pony" tools were being marketed for shoemakers and > repairmen--far more than anyone really needed except the rube with a few > extra bucks in his pocket. The writer who described the pane on a > "Crispin" looking like a claw hammer without the split in the middle is > right on it. I know of no description in any textbook, or any first-hand > accounts of this atrophied pane being used for anything traditionally, just > to counter-balance the head, and get the pane out of the way at the same > time. And likewise, the "thing" about a "Crispin" is the corrugated face > for driving clinch tacks so they don't slip and fall over--that's it's one > "trick". Now, having said this, any tool for any trade may have been > designed for a specific operation initially, but as clever as tradesmen > are, the use was adapted to something entirely beyond the mind of the > originator (like using long-paned shoe hammers to get into the corners of > drawers in cabinetry, or upholstering billiard tables with shoemakers' > combination hammer-pincers or "lasting pincers"--a use they were not > designed for). > > I have always found it a useful process not to begin by looking at what a > tool is being used for after the fact, but what it was initially designed > to do. I've seen all sorts of things being used for all manner of > unintended applications, but this tells us little about the origins or > purpose it was devised for. Maybe something really sucked at what it was > designed for, but became a boon to somebody else for an entirely different > application, for which it remains popular. Anyway, as far as I know the > "Crispin" was a shoe-REPAIR hammer made to replace the worn-out 1/2 round > files everybody was using for driving clinch tacks. I'm sure other > applications developed along the way, but curiously enough, George Barnsley > & Sons (UK) still sell a "half-round rivet driver", which is basically a > new "old" heavy file made expressly for this. C. S. Pierce & Co. (US) > still sell the "Crispin" hammer, but not the half-round files. Forwarded is more info on shoe makers hammers from my broken-thumbed cordwainer friend in Colonial Williamsburg. John White, Baltimore ++++ End of thread 18794 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18795 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42562 (thread 18795) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-02 17:12:00 Subject: What epoxy to use for repair? I have an unfortunate wooden plane that is in need of a repair. I was advised to use two-part epoxy to do the repair. The break is clean, good surfaces to bond to, but I was wondering what the best choice of epoxy would be. Just go the the hardware store and buy regular old two part epoxy? Or should I look for a specific kind? Thanks, Steve York ---- Start of Message 42565 (thread 18795) ---- From: Dave Weisbord Date: 1998-05-02 17:41:00 Subject: Re: What epoxy to use for repair? >I have an unfortunate wooden plane that is in need of a repair. I was advised >to use two-part epoxy to do the repair. The break is clean, good surfaces >to bond to, but I was wondering what the best choice of epoxy would be. >Just go the the hardware store and buy regular old two part epoxy? Or >should I look for a specific kind? I would strongly recommend the 24-hour variety of epoxy vs. the 5 minute types you find in department stores. The 24-hour type is more stable in the long run than the 5 minute type. Don't get me wrong the 5 minute type works well for many applications. But I assume that on a wooden plane you are looking for a "permanent" bond that won't crack in the future. One of the best out there is System Three. Unfortunately, you can't just buy a small quantity of this stuff, and you'll be out about $50 by the time you buy everything you need. But good eopxy like this has many uses in woodworking: gluing, gap filling, etc. I even know some guitar makers who use it as a pore filler. In short, if you're looking for a permanent bond, get the slower drying type. Dave ---- Start of Message 42569 (thread 18795) ---- From: PeterH5322 Date: 1998-05-02 14:11:00 Subject: Re: What epoxy to use for repair? In a message dated 5/2/98 10:18:52 AM, you wrote: << I was advised to use two-part epoxy to do the repair. >> Actually, all epoxies are two part ... 1) resin, and 2) hardner. The best I've used is the so-called "high strength" epoxy, which is the one which reaches full-cure "overnight". To be avoided are the so-called "3 minute" epoxy formulations. I have used cabocil as a filler (for improved "gap filling") with good success. I use "clear" epoxy, and have been told that this may be tinted with a good grade of artist's oil pigment. The next time I have to repair a rosewood tote that has a "gap", I'm going to experiment with tinting this epoxy to look like rosewood. You state your break is clean. Fine. Now go the extra mile and create some very tiny score marks in the mating surface. This will enhance penetration. I use a modeler's Zona razor saw, reshaped to have a curved edge somehwhat like a veneer saw. You could just as easily use an X-acto knife, probably a #11 blade. Good luck. Peter. ---- Start of Message 42570 (thread 18795) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-02 18:09:00 Subject: Re: What epoxy to use for repair? > >I have an unfortunate wooden plane that is in need of a repair. I was > advised >to use two-part epoxy to do the repair. The break is clean, good > surfaces >to bond to, but I was wondering what the best choice of epoxy > would be. >Just go the the hardware store and buy regular old two part > epoxy? Or >should I look for a specific kind? > > I would strongly recommend the 24-hour variety of epoxy vs. the 5 minute > types you find in department stores. The 24-hour type is more stable in > the long run than the 5 minute type. Don't get me wrong the 5 minute type > works well for many applications. But I assume that on a wooden plane you > are looking for a "permanent" bond that won't crack in the future. > > Dave Ugh, that makes it tougher. The broken part is the screw arm from a plough plane. It will be very hard to clamp securely. Obviously the screw threads have to be perfectly aligned, and the arm must be straight. Otherwise the wooden nut will never thread smoothly across it. I was thinking that by mounting the plane fence in my big vise so that the arm was vertical, I could epoxy it and manually hold it in place until it was set, then I could let it go and finish curing. Would this be possible with the 24 hour variety? This plane will obviously never have much value, but I like it and want to keep it as a user. The bond must be straight and strong, to handle whatever stress a plow fence arm undergoes. The break was a clean break, with no splitting. The two ends meet in a V shape, so that there is a good bit of long grain to bond to. If it was a 90 degree type clean break, I would probably use an indexing pin and epoxy. Steve ---- Start of Message 42571 (thread 18795) ---- From: John Letsche Date: 1998-05-02 19:30:00 Subject: Re: What epoxy to use for repair? Dave Weisbord wrote: > > One of the best out there is System Three. Unfortunately, you can't just > buy a small quantity of this stuff, and you'll be out about $50 by the > time you buy everything you need. But good eopxy like this has many uses > in woodworking: gluing, gap filling, etc. I even know some guitar makers > who use it as a pore filler. Both System 3 and West are excellent products. For a small quantitiy, Go to the system three website. You can order a trial kit for $10.00 It contains the resin, hardner, gloves, filler and a bunch of other stuff. Quite a good deal. I think its www.systemthree.com John. ---- Start of Message 42572 (thread 18795) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-02 18:30:00 Subject: Re: What epoxy to use for repair? I checked with Japan Woodworker and they carry something called Smith and Co. Boatbuilders epoxy. They have slow and fast cure formulations. Does anyone have experience with this stuff. Japan Woodworker is local to me, so I can go grab some today. Steve ---- Start of Message 42576 (thread 18795) ---- From: Colin Montoya-Lewis Date: 1998-05-02 21:34:00 Subject: Re: What epoxy to use for repair? >... but I was wondering what the best choice of epoxy would be. Assuming the tool has no collectable value in this condition, etc.... I'll echo what others have already said: Use a slow cure epoxy. West System, System Three, etc.. The problem (again, as others have already pointed out) is that you need to buy a fair quantity, and it's best to get the measured pumps. IOW, with epoxy, you're really buying an a system rather than a bottle of glue. If you do this, I'd bet that you would become interested enough in the stuff to begin to explore its numerous uses. It really is great stuff. Whenever I've been faced with the impossible, epoxy always comes to the rescue. If, however, you're hesitant to take a plunge into buying $50 worth of epoxy to fix a small crack in a plane, you might want to call Industrial Formulators of Canada (1-800-778-0833) to request product literature and (here's the best part) free samples. What they send will be enough to do your repair and to decide whether epoxy is something you want to play around with some more. They make a system that's comparable to those listed above. One other alternative is Maas epoxy, which I've had mostly good results with. It's the same sort of deal, but comes in somewhat more "consumer sized" packaging. It's available from Woodworker's Supply of New Mexico. (Sorry, don't have the number handy.) -Colin ++++ End of thread 18795 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18796 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42563 (thread 18796) ---- From: nedbal Date: 1998-05-02 12:54:00 Subject: Saturday's bottom feeding #8 clinton saw works looks like "Disstons" warranted superior button on handle , wheat handle, good condition, handle seems original to saw? anyone have any info on this? H. Disston and sons keyhole saw , nice condition when the above 2 went for a total of $1.50 I went back for more armstrong pipe die set .25 3/8 .5 _ 1 " in box pd$5 the big price on this due to she liked the box it was in, used once? Stillson #10 Walworth mfg pipe wrench , Boston, black paint handle , V. good Dolman 12" solid bar, wooden riveted handle type screwdriver , can opener, but I like this type Stanley AR100 framing square, V. good grand total ALL above for $12 and any info on clinton saw works? ---- Start of Message 42584 (thread 18796) ---- From: JLMOORE Date: 1998-05-02 21:29:00 Subject: Re: Saturday's bottom feeding My Saturdays bottom-feeding adventure... I had to be at work at noon to test 30 PC's for a class on Sunday. I had planned to sleep late, lounge around the house, and then head into work for a few hours. But I guess fate took over because I was wide awake at 6am. I toss and turn for awhile before deciding to go out and get the paper. Inside I read about a city-wide garage sale day at a small rural town a few miles east. Well, why not? So I check the tool fund and head out. I get there a little after 7am and start cruising the bubbamobile up and down the streets. At the first stop are two little old ladies dragging out cardboard boxes. A lot of metal scraps, hinges, pipes etc. They tell me it is some stuff from a barn they recently cleaned out. I am about to leave when I spot a huge auger bit sticking out of one of the boxes. It seems to be waving at me so I go over (queue the x-files music). The bit is trashed but at the bottom of the box I find a #71 router plane, a #75 bullnose, and a Stanley bevel (all metal type with the locking bolt on the bottom). I hold them up and tenatively ask "How Much?" The answer - five bucks! John Moore ---- Start of Message 42586 (thread 18796) ---- From: Jim Date: 1998-05-03 03:36:00 Subject: Re: Saturday's bottom feeding Well I had been waiting all week with anticipation to go bottom feeding this weekend. Friday afternoon -- sore throat, fever -- tool medicine and went to bed early and hoped -- SWMBO said I wasn't going anywhere unless I felt better. Sat morning rolled around in Old Tool Hell (OTH) (Southern Arizona) and loe and behold, I wasn't 100%, but I was in good enough shape. I had a small swap meet, a large swat meet, and the used tool store in town was having a 10-50% off May sale. Had never been to the smaller swap meet before and I usually come home looking dejected with no success in fining tools -- SWMBO makes all appropriate noises about coming back empty handed. Digressing... after reading the Old Tools list for a little bit, I can now think of about three or four Gloats that I turned down because I didn't know any better. Back to bottom feeding. Walked around the swap meet and found an old saw for a couple of bucks -- 11pt cc with dipped back most likely a no name, but it had the Diston shaped handle. For some reason chisels are pretty rare in OTH, but I was feeling lucky after scoring a Stanley 160 with a handle and a Pexto without for another couple of bucks. I did see some planes -- which believe me is rare, but they were beaters with outrageous prices. turned the last corner and there in OTH was a little corner of heaven--- Planes, saws, chisels, braces, levels,--- it was all there. Nice older couple, said he was getting on in years and was selling some of his stuff off. Saws were his favorites and he had some crispy Distons -- but by his price tags he was _very_ proud of them. I moved on the the planes. had a #45 with a couple of blades for $125 -- on my list, but so are almost every other plane. I have been working on my bench and even though I could use back saw or chisel for the tenons, it seemed like it would be more fun to try with a plane. He did have a #190 -- as a matter of fact he had #190, 191, and 192 -- he thought they made a nice set and took a nice price break on them - user grade. He had a #220 for $10 that was in excellent shape. (My son-in-law bought me a #220 at a swap meet in Sacramento when we were up there couple of weeks ago -- he thought he got a good deal, but it is missing a knob and the bed is cracked around the blade) This will make a swell replacement and he will never be the wiser. FInally he pulled out a box of Baileys. Got me a very crispy #3 (WWII type with real prety beech knob and tote for just a little more than the others wanted for the beaters. Needless to say I was in Old Tool heaven -- didn't even go to the other swap meet or the used tool store. I did leave the gentleman my card -- he said he would call the next time he came out to the swap meet. He also threw in some walnut and cherry that he had had laying around for about thirty years -- about 12-16" long and a combo 16/4, 12/4s. Well, I get home, show off my hoard to SWMBO and she says, why didn't you get that cute #45 you wanted -- when you see something like that you should buy it. Gotta love her -- of course it was too late to go back, and I was too stupid to get the gentleman's name and number -- so I spent the day makin' hickory curls on my bench legs. Jim Bob ++++ End of thread 18796 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18797 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42564 (thread 18797) ---- From: Stephen.York@E...[SMTP:Stephen.York@E...] Date: 1998-05-02 17:41:00 Subject: What epoxy to use for repair? I strongly recommend West Systems Expoxy, made by the Gougeon Brothers. Use the 105 resin and the 205 hardener. It comes with instructions that are an education! My boat building friends love it. I am a neophyte to glues and woods, etc. and yet got great results in my first projects which needed epoxy, without having to bug my better informed friends. Pick up some microfibers to add to the mix. Look for it in marine supply stores or in the catalogs of woodworking supply companies. Not cheap, but great stuff. ---------- From: Stephen.York@E...[SMTP:Stephen.York@E...] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 6:12 AM To: oldtools@l... Subject: What epoxy to use for repair? I have an unfortunate wooden plane that is in need of a repair. I was advised to use two-part epoxy to do the repair. The break is clean, good surfaces to bond to, but I was wondering what the best choice of epoxy would be. Just go the the hardware store and buy regular old two part epoxy? Or should I look for a specific kind? Thanks, Steve York ++++ End of thread 18797 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18798 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42567 (thread 18798) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-02 17:50:00 Subject: Show report/leapfrog query GGs-- Yesterday SWMBO and I hit the Hillsborough Antique Show at the San Mateo County fairgrounds. Hundreds of dealers, acres of glass and fabric and ceramics, and quite a bit of furniture, including some old pieces some nice pieces, and even some nice old pieces. A couple of observations from one who has frequented some big shows in the interior regions of the US Northeast: Out here on the Left Coast, much of the furniture at higher-end events like this originated in Yurp ("continent" on northwestern end of Eurasian land mass, to which your island is now connected by underwater tunnel, Jeff). So there were a couple of pieces that actually might have been made in the 17th century, as the tag claimed, and quite a few nice 18th and early 19th-century pieces. Then you fast-forward to Arts and Crafts, Mission oak, and the like. Very little of the country pine and rustic stuff one sees, eg, at Madison-Bouckville and other eastern US conflabs, nor the quality Boston, or Baltimore, or Philly items one sees in eastern US shows and shops. (When I commented on a nicely inlaid firebox [or whatever you call those scoop-shaped boxes about a foot square, with a carrying handle on top and a metal bucket inside, for keeping banked coals], the guy in the booth said he has them shipped from Britain by the container. OldTools content: in a word, durn little, and all at Full Retail. little groups of 4-fold rules in with the fountain pens and pocket knives, and an odd and end here and there. One lady had a very nice SW #2 in her case for $375, another guy had a complete #55 in wooden box, most cutters never honed, "as is typical" (tmPL;-) asking $600, elsewhere a #10 1/2, one cheek and tote cracked and nicely repaired, for $125, and like that. THE QUERY: One booth had half a dozen English back saws lined up, including one that could have been the pattern for the IT. The brass backing strips had the requisite high polish, and although some could be rehabilitated for their original purpose, these were not being sold as users. One logo caught my eye, and I thought to ask the Saw People about it: Spear and Jackson, 14" blade, closed handle, filed 10pt. Next to the S&J stamp on the rib was a stamped image of a boy leaping over another boy's back, and the word "leapfrog" stamped next to it. What does anybody know about "leapfrog" saws? Tom Holloway ---- Start of Message 42574 (thread 18798) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-02 19:19:00 Subject: Re: Show report/leapfrog query The "Leapfrog" model is a "3rd" line Spear-Jackson handsaw (in 1915). The top line was "Double Mermaid", 2nd line "Mermaid". Asking price in 1915 for them in 26" skew back blade length was : Double Mermaid 128/- doz (Vanadium Alloy Steel) Mermaid 100/- doz (Silver Steel, London Spring) Leapfrog 70/- doz (Cast Steel) (I assume the prices are in "Shillings/Pence") It should be noted that in 1915 the Mermaid and Leapfrog trademarks were called "New Trade Marks" by Spear & Jackson. --ErvSaws ++++ End of thread 18798 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18799 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42573 (thread 18799) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-02 19:02:00 Subject: Re: Saturday's bottom feeding(Clinton Saw Works saw) Re: Clinton Saw Works saw. I don't have much on this "company" (if it is a saw maker), just know Clinton is in NY & near Utica NY and a #8 Clinton Saw Works handsaw was reported to me before (same saw?). --ErvSaws ---- Start of Message 42581 (thread 18799) ---- From: nedbal Date: 1998-05-02 19:27:00 Subject: Re: Saturday's bottom feeding(Clinton Saw Works saw) thanks took a better look at it , it's marked New York, NY and the warranted superior is not the disston keystone but a eagle in there? forgot to mention a few other things in that deal , for oldtools a nice hand crank grinder w/stone ,too bad its missing the original tool rest, otherwise a Crapps** torque wrench, and some other non oldtools stuff! > Subject: Re: Saturday's bottom feeding(Clinton Saw Works saw) > Re: Clinton Saw Works saw. I don't have much on this "company" (if it is > a saw maker), just know Clinton is in NY & near Utica NY and a #8 > Clinton Saw Works handsaw was reported to me before (same saw?). > --ErvSaws > ++++ End of thread 18799 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18800 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42577 (thread 18800) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-02 22:32:00 Subject: weekend project spewage Exec. version: Scored some Beech, SWMBette and I started making a box for Mother's Day present Galoot version: This AM I drove over to JD's place.. then on over to a Mill and picked up 500+ hundred Bd./Ft. of Beech.. some really beautifull stuff... really wish I had more disposable cash right now drove back to his place and unloaded from the trucks into the loft of the barn. them Quarter sawn _wet_ 8/4 beech was HEAVY.. We got most of it all stacked and stickered and I left w/ a bit.. (it will be my _next_ workbench top..) It's sitting in my I'n-law's barn right now... I'll drop it off to the kiln sometione this week.... When I got home, SMBette and I started work on Momma's present for next weekend. I fed some of the Patagonian Cherry (Lenga) I have been hoarding(Thanks again Stu, it is beautifull stuff)... I fed the stuff to Scrub-Boy (pl@n&r) to bring it down to the right thickness.. Then I got to play w/ some hand tools.. Clamaped the board in the Emmert and propped the opposite end up on a dog in the tail-vice... snapped a chalk line and took out the scrub-plane and got pretty darned close.. switched over to a #5 and brought it down just a GA short of the line and then swapped the #5 for a #8 and got the edge straight ...... It was still not square so I got out the #95 and lickety split it was square.... I then threw the board in the truck and drove out to where my T@bl& S@w is kept and ripped it to consistent, parallel width.. back in the truck w/ my plank & SWMBette and we were soon home. I planed the surfaces w/ a super Tuned Type11 #4 w/ Hock iron.. it was _so_sweet.. then we set to cutting the box sides to lenght on my super-spiffy #360A Miter-Saw (thanks again Pattrick ;-) Victoria was hillarious to watch.. she did all the cutting herself.. the darned saw was taller than her ;-) Next we laid out the pins for the dove-tail joinery on the box.... Victoria used the LVT wheel type guage to scribe the base-lines and I used my SuperiorWorks Bevel Guage to lay out the sockets, Victoria and I took turns w/ the IT saw cutting them (I'd start the cut, she'd finish it, (She showed great controll on not going past the base-lines (better than the ones I cut ;-) We then chopped out the waste using chisels and a mallet I di dthe chisel work, Victoria worked the mallet, not once did she miss and hit me!.. Well it was about 5 PM and time to watch N*rnie, so we knocked off for the day. We should finish up the pins tomorrow and then work on ploughin the grooves to hold the top and bottom early this week. ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 18800 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18801 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42580 (thread 18801) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-02 23:26:00 Subject: Re: THE TOOL Hmmm.. the ones I have that I would _NEVER_ part with: IT Saw #14 ( passed on #12 because I liked the grain on #14 better) Superior Works Bevel Guage, (A gift from the folks In LA) Lignum carving Mallet I turned (Another sentimantal item) #360A MiterBox (too suculent to ever need "upgrading") The tools that are on my "someday" list... I duunno... I guess I'll just wait till I see it, then I'll know......there is really not much I can think of except: A complete set of Type 11's, #2 through 8 , (all fitted w/ Hock irons, of course ;-) Ummm... One of everything from Lie-Nielsen... ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 18801 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18802 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42585 (thread 18802) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-03 02:35:00 Subject: Book report GGs-- Found a new book that galoots should look for, look at, and maybe buy. It is THE WOODWORKER'S GUIDE TO HAND TOOLS, by Peter Korn (Taunton Press, 1998), ISBN 1-56158-216-6, sticker price US$22.95, 201 pp. Some may know Korn's 1993 book WORKING WITH WOOD, which is good, even if it shows some Normite influence. This new book is sort of like an updated, 'Murican audience version of Aldren Watson's HAND TOOLS, THEIR WAYS AND WORKINGS. It discusses no motorized anything, but refers to *old* tools only when new versions are not to be had. This leads to recurring suggestions that the reader might look in the antique tool market for users. Also several suggestions that readers might want to consult Mike Dunbar's RESTORING, TUNING, AND USING CLASSIC WW TOOLS. This book has a lot on what to look for in a hand tool, how to tune for use, and techniques for use. Excellent shaded drawings of tools and techniques, with the clear text. Lots, for example, on tuning and using scrapers. Also has a bibliography listing 15 classic sources for the galoot library. Nine-page appendix on sharpening. In one or another sharpening thread in this forum someone (maybe Doug Dawson) pointed out that until the various abrasives are listed on a scale of microns, confusion will remain. This book has an appendix table table listing microns in the first column (from 1.2 to 1293), and then comparative columns for: ANSI U.S. sandpaper; FEPA European (P-mesh) sandpaper (way different at fine grits, scale merges with US at 180 grit); JIS Japanese waterstones; ANSI Bonded Abrasive Oilstones (like Soft Arkansas, fine India, Crystolon); and Diamond Stones. A big help for clueless abrasive people (none of them on this list, o'course ;-) The U.S. sandpaper listing only goes down to 1200 grit (6.5 Microns), but since 1000 grit is 9.2 midrons I deduce that 2000 grit is about 4.6 microns or so. Is that correct? For those who need to know, 1293 microns is equal to 16 grit stuff in the US scale--like scraping with sharp pebbles. Anyhow, this book looks like a good primer, especially but not only for newbies and GITs. Tom Holloway, noting that Korn is billed as Director of the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport, Maine. Anyone of his personal acquaintance? Bruce? ++++ End of thread 18802 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18803 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42589 (thread 18803) ---- From: jeff Date: 1998-05-03 05:48:00 Subject: Raw Hands!!! Galoots, On principle, I will not have a tool in my shop just because it's collectible or "perdy". Since scoring that #9, I've tuned it and have been trying to use use it. ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO HOLD THIS *#&@$^*$#&^$&*THING COMFORTABLY????? And to those with worried looks, this plane isn't going to be a daily user but it has to be usable. If it's not -out it goes in exchange for some real tools! (No, I'm not interested in offers, thanks!) Rgds, Jeff from Wpg. ++++ End of thread 18803 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18804 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42590 (thread 18804) ---- From: eric coyle Date: 1998-05-03 07:03:00 Subject: shop geometry -trisect an angle..... esteemed fellow galoots. curious and sundry web-surfing has lead me to a site which shows many different wooden devicia-mathematica suitable for construction by galoots and also for application in layout. Hey, just how many of those gauge-types got an angle tri-sector???? check it out at http://155.185.1.61:80/labmat/usa1.htm. Some of it is in Italian. Cowtown Eric ++++ End of thread 18804 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18805 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42592 (thread 18805) ---- From: Sutton Date: 1998-05-03 13:55:00 Subject: No Good Saws Hello Galoots. I'm sure everyone is poised at his/her computer with trembling hands hovering over the keyboard, waiting for the magic hour that will ring in May's FMM, but if anyone is listening . . . I have been educating myself about handsaws. I just finished examining my assortment of six or seven I've accumulated over the last twenty years or so and now I understand why I can't cut straight. All of my saws are cr*p. That's a relief, in a way. There is one possible exception, and it's an old Disston crosscut with a bad bend out toward the end. There's at least 14" of good straight sawblade from the handle on out (in need of jointing, setting and sharpening, but straight). Can I just cut the bent part off and save the rest? Make it a panel saw? If so, what does one use to cut a sawblade, and how does one go about it? I appreciate your help. It would be good to know I have at least ONE decent saw to start with. David Sutton ---- Start of Message 42597 (thread 18805) ---- From: Richard MacArthur Date: 1998-05-03 17:13:00 Subject: Re: No Good Saws Sutton wrote: There is one possible exception, and it's an old Disston crosscut with a bad bend out toward the end. There's at least 14" of good straight sawblade from the handle on out (in need of jointing, setting and sharpening, but straight). Hi fellow galoots, go to http://www.taunton.com/fw/features/techniques/19kink.htm for a solution to your bent saws.I've fixed a few saws this way with few problems Rich ---- Start of Message 42722 (thread 18805) ---- From: Jeff Gorman Date: 1998-05-05 06:00:00 Subject: RE: No Good Saws David Sutton wrote: > If so, > what does one use to cut a sawblade, and how does one go about it? A very fine toothed hacksaw might touch it. Work with the blade at a very small angle to the saw plate (to increase the length of the cut), otherwise an abrasive cutting disk will do the job. Use a proper tool for holding the disk, it is not safe to put them into a table saw (speed and clamping method). Mind you, I have fitted a small one to a very ancient B & D circular saw add-on without harm. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html ++++ End of thread 18805 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18806 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42594 (thread 18806) ---- From: John J Black Date: 1998-05-03 16:22:00 Subject: Weekend Haul GG’s, Weekend tool haul: Mer Plierench Corporation, Eifrl Geared Plierench it has the number 8 1/2-44-0 on it. It is a geared sliding jaw device with plier type handles that close parallel jaws. It is old enough to have a $5.00 price stamped right into the side of it. Anyone know anything about this company? A L.S. Starrett Level, Precision Machine, this is real pretty with a chrome rotating shield, but is has no identifying number on it. It is 1 1/4" W x 1 3/4" H x 8" dimensionally with two bubble levels ( a smaller one across the end). Anyone got a number on this, or know its approxiamte value? 6” all metal Stanley Bevel Gauge (#18? Walter doesn’t appear to be very clear on these) Pat date 7-14-08. A #10 Miller Falls Rosewood and brass handled adjustable size hack saw. It cleaned up just beautify. Omega (never heard of Omega) 3 1/2 inch and metric inside/outside all metal vernier gage. A 6" dial vernier gage, a 1" dia x 3" long steel (looks home made), a couple of vixen files, a wooden coffin smooth plane, a # 4 smoother, a 12" long crow bar, a 9" long center punch (home made), two 5/16" exchangeable wooden handle nut driver, a wooden handled hatchet, three ball peen hammers, a brick hammer, star drills, and a nifty wooden carpenters tool box. All for $70 bucks. John ++++ End of thread 18806 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18807 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42595 (thread 18807) ---- From: Darrell LaRue Date: 1998-04-28 18:51:00 Subject: Shavings in the Office Galoots, I'm working hard on a possible convert here at the office. He brought in a couple of boards yesterday and tried to explain what he wanted to do, and he couldn't think of any way of doing it with his current set of tools (mostly hand help p*w*r stuff). Seems all he wanted was a couple of rabbets cut. So today I brought in a #78 rabbet & fillister and we cut a couple of rabbets at lunch. Now he thinks he needs a jack plane and a rabbet plane. That's all, right? Uh Huh. Yup, that's all (heh heh). Kinda brightens up an otherwise dreary day :^) Darrell Who might have pushed another one down that slope today! -- Darrell LaRue Scotia Capital Markets Toronto Ontario, Canada Opinions expressed herein are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. "That ain't no slippery slope, that's an inclined plane!" ++++ End of thread 18807 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18808 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42596 (thread 18808) ---- From: Jimlemon Date: 1998-05-03 13:07:00 Subject: Trisecting angles- Really! My world has just been turned on it's head. Common knowledge from way back (9th grade goemetry) always said there was no way to trisect an angle- and here's a mechanical doogie that does it! What else you got- something to square circles? Maybe ol' Mr. Benlan meant there was no way to trisect an angle using Euclidean methods- you know, straight-edge and compass and that schtick? That it can be done using this device just blows me out of the water. I'm very tempted to try my hand at one. Thanks for the post. Jim Lemon ---- Start of Message 42598 (thread 18808) ---- From: Stephan Patnaude Date: 1998-05-03 17:13:00 Subject: Re: Trisecting angles- Really! Hello Mathematically Minded Galoots, Speaking of tri-sectors and mathematical machines, I've got a stealth project going which involves a brass and ebony machine for n-secting angles using a spiral of Archimedes. The goal is to have a handy aid for laying out some interesting polychromatic turning blanks without the need of computation. Anybody ever take a shot at making this kind of device? Anybody collect antique layout tools that perform similar functions? - Stephan P.S. FWIW, really neat cutting boards can be fashioned by laminating rectangles of woods in contrasting colors in such a way that the dimensions of the rectangles are determined via similar Fibonacci sequences on the x and y axis of the cutting board. ---- Start of Message 42603 (thread 18808) ---- From: Holland, Larry Date: 1998-05-03 18:55:00 Subject: Re: Trisecting angles- Really! > >P.S. FWIW, really neat cutting boards can be fashioned by laminating >rectangles of woods in contrasting colors in such a way that the dimensions >of the rectangles are determined via similar Fibonacci sequences on the >x and y axis of the cutting board. You know the veins and arteries in your body branch out in a way that obeys the Fibonacci sequence...? I've seen your cutting board design...pretty cool. Larry Larry Holland estuary@w... ---- Start of Message 42629 (thread 18808) ---- From: eric coyle Date: 1998-05-04 05:34:00 Subject: Re: Trisecting angles- Really! At 01:41 PM 5/3/98 -0400, Stephan Patnaude wrote: >Hello Mathematically Minded Galoots, > >Speaking of tri-sectors and mathematical machines, I've >got a stealth project going which involves a brass and ebony >machine for n-secting angles using a spiral of Archimedes. >The goal is to have a handy aid for laying out some interesting >polychromatic turning blanks without the need of computation. > >Anybody ever take a shot at making this kind of device? > >Anybody collect antique layout tools that perform similar >functions? > >- Stephan > >P.S. FWIW, really neat cutting boards can be fashioned by laminating >rectangles of woods in contrasting colors in such a way that the dimensions >of the rectangles are determined via similar Fibonacci sequences on the >x and y axis of the cutting board. > >************************************************************************* FWIW, the trisector of Kempe listed at that site could be "added to" to make an n-secting device, if you look at the points HFDB, they follow the spiral. Practical limitations gotta apply though, cause the arms to the left keep getting longer and longer. Me, I pick up layout tools when I see em, but I do believe that if a carpenter mastered the steel square intracies prosthelitized by Fred hisself, he'd be doing well. I betcha that jointers of yore had the same love/hate relationship with architects/designers that exists today. If it got to angle trisecting, I think that this would have taxed most folks then, as now. Cowtown Eric > ++++ End of thread 18808 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18809 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42599 (thread 18809) ---- From: buzzmk Date: 1998-05-03 17:49:00 Subject: Bio - out from under the porch - Buzz Keever Greetings Gallots, I've been lurking for several months now & I guess it's time to come out.... from under the porch. My name is Buzz Keever, 36, married with with one SWHMOette. I'm not a geek, although from time to time when no one is looking I do secretly wear a pocket protector. I'm a tech rep for multinational group of companies - I service, train, sale & install high speed, wide format digital plotters & engineering copiers. Last time mangement sent me businees cards my title was "digital specialist". I have no office or cubicle & I travel quiet heavily - I hit lots antique/junk type places during my travels. I've been working with wood ever since woodshop in highschool - more so the last five or six years. Pertinent facts: 1)Recovering Normite 2)Made my own bench, 2'x6', trestle base, maple, round holes, full tailvise, record side 3)Shamefull owner of many tailed tools of the devil 4)Never hurt myself bad enough in the shop to require an ambulance - usally I can drive myself to the emergency room 5)Semi-bottom feeder 6)Quiet a collec...NO,no,no - a servicable selection of nice old tools....yea, a "selection"... ++++ End of thread 18809 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18810 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42602 (thread 18810) ---- From: Howard Lau Date: 1998-04-28 21:35:00 Subject: Hanging Tool Cabinets - What design? Greetings, I've finally (yeah, finally) been getting around to organizing my shop. I've installed six hanging cabinets with adjustable shelves and a saw rack. Now I'm thinking about how to design the wall cabinet for over the work bench to hold my most used tools. I've been looking at a bunch of designs in different books; FWW The Small Workshop, The Toolbox Book, Hansluck's the Handyman Book, and Engler's Shop Furniture book - okay I admit I own one his books, but I bought it before I knew better. Most designs seem to be three feet high by two feet wide. Now I see Patrick's C.A. Jewett Chest and he says it's four feet high by three feet wide. I'm thinking that may be the dimensions I want. I've got the wall space and the extra storage would be a real plus. Plus with all the drooling I've been doing over the picture Patrick posted, I can make believe that someday I'll fill it with similar tools and have something like that to hand down to my son. How about you others? What dimensions did you follow. Any special features you want to brag about that I can incorporate into mine? I like the inner panels in the Jewett Chest. Look like a great idea. Patrick, how are things like the eggbeater attached to the board? Thanks in advance. ++++ End of thread 18810 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18811 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42607 (thread 18811) ---- From: Steve Noe Date: 1998-05-04 00:11:00 Subject: The right glue for rosewood I picked up a bag o' planes at auction, a couple of weeks ago. (I think I mentioned one with a really unusual iron.) Another is a vee-groove plane, clearly a user made plane, but this time the iron looks "commercial." The plane appears to be rosewood, and has a long crack, extending from the toe to the throat. I failed to save the thread on gluing rosewood, and only recall that it may need to be degreased with acetone. (No problem, the chem lab across the hall has it in 19 liter carboys.) Any sugestions on the right glue - gap filling or regular cyanoacrylate, epoxy, Elmers? Steve Noe, in Indianapolis (who has to remember this is OldTools, not BioLab, so frogs are metal, and do NOT have a gastrocnemius) snoe749@i... ---- Start of Message 42611 (thread 18811) ---- From: Tony Blanks Date: 1998-05-04 01:01:00 Subject: Re: The right glue for rosewood Hi Steve, (Snip) > I failed to save the thread on gluing rosewood, >Any sugestions on the right glue - gap filling or regular cyanoacrylate, >epoxy, Elmers? I have had lots of success with a 2 part acrylic glue which sticks rosewood to rosewood, and rosewood to metal no problem. No dedreasing of the rosewood needed, possibly because of the solvents already in the glue. Its good sticky stuff, but I wouldn't want to be with it in a confined space for too long. Also, it is not a reversible bond. Once it is glued, its there to stay! I'm at work at the moment: I will get the details and post after the FMM flood if you want more info. It is a US made product, so you should be able to find it OK. Regards, Tony B ---- Start of Message 42672 (thread 18811) ---- From: Dave Weisbord Date: 1998-05-04 18:00:00 Subject: Re: The right glue for rosewood >The plane appears to be rosewood, and has a long crack, extending from >the toe to the throat. I failed to save the thread on gluing rosewood, >and only recall that it may need to be degreased with acetone. (No >problem, the chem lab across the hall has it in 19 liter carboys.) > >Any sugestions on the right glue - gap filling or regular cyanoacrylate, >epoxy, Elmers? This goes right back to our discussion of epoxies. Any of the top brands discussed will do, although the Smith products are especially designed for tropical hardwoods. Dave ++++ End of thread 18811 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18812 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42612 (thread 18812) ---- From: BRUCE KANTELIS Date: 1998-05-04 02:17:00 Subject: Finished a project in one day Hello All! No lousy jokes today please.... Started and finished a dog house (not mine, we really do have a dog). This was not your average dog house mind you but a scaled down version to match our arts and crafts house. This little fellow has same construction, tin roof (from the spares for the house) and ornamental trim to match the house. The walls are a little different as I used some t&g cedar I had salvaged. This project also has a little front porch. Well to get it done in a day I broke down and used a tablesaw. Otherwise it was a galoot project. Handsaws to trim all the sides, drawknife all over the place and assorted gouges and chisels to complete. Regards, Bruce Kantelis ++++ End of thread 18812 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18813 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42614 (thread 18813) ---- From: Paul Honore Date: 1998-05-04 02:56:00 Subject: FS: Planes, Chisels, MIsc - May 98 Tools For Sale - May 1998 Usual Old tools terms - I ship - you like - you pay (+ actual shipping charge) You no like - you ship back at your expense. Pictures of most tools are available at http://www.eastconn.com/tools Paul Honore phonore@i... Planes - 1. Stanley 4 1/2 This is a nice Type 7 (ca. 1895). Great patina - good rosewood that needs cleaning, small 1/8" chip missing from side of tote. - approx 75% japanning - $75 2. Stanley 6 - Type 11 - Approx 50% japanning. Usual small chip out of top of tote. owners name lightly stamped in tote and knob, great user - $35 3. Stanley 9 1/2 - Later manufacture - needs the pin for the adj mouth - $12. 4. Stanley 57 - Corebox plane - Patternmaker wannabes, here's your chance. No side extension or turnbuckle. Should clean up nicely. Great knob and tote picture available at http://www.eastconn.com/tools/cb1.jpg was $100. REDUCED to $85 5. Stanley 57 - Corebox plane - Want to make bigger cores? - this one has 1 set of extensions. Early one with nice Beech knob and tote. Approx 60% nickel left. See it at http://www.eastconn.com/tools/cb2.jpg Missing turnbuckle. $200 6. Stanley 148 T & G. 50% nickel remains - all there and ready to go. $60. 7. Stanley 220. Great for a kid's toolbox - $10. ============================================================= Chisels and Slicks (most need some honing) 1. 2" Slick - GEO PARR Buffalo NY. Cast steel. Bright CAST STEEL with a great handle. Repaired crack on back of socket. see it at http://www.eastconn.com/tools/s1.jpg was $55 NOW $45 2. Set of 5 L&IJ White Socket Chisels Steel looks like new - 3/8", 1/2 (both sq edge) 1", 1 1/2", 1 3/4" (bevel edge) Msmts to top of socket and overall respectively - 11", 16; 11", 16 1/2; 11", 17"; 12", 17 1/4"; 12 1/2, 18" Handles are nice hickory replcmts with pounding hoops $115. 3. BUCK BROS - Tang gouges (incannel) Set of 3 - 3/16,1/4,1/2" Handles appear to have been painted black, ferrule missing from 3/16 $35 4. PEXTO Socket Paring Chisels (Bevel edge). 1/8" (8 3/4 to top of socket; 13" overall), 1/4" (8 by 11 ½ overall) $15 EACH 5. SARGENT - Socket firmer chisels (each 1 1/2")- 1 Sargent brand (bevel edge), 1 New Haven Edge Tool (sq edge) (also Sargent made). repairable crack in handle of Sargent. Picture available at http://www.eastconn.com/tools/nh.jpg $15 each. 6. Dickinson & Co - Corner Chisel 1" $30 ===================================================================== Miscelleaneous 1. Miller Falls #207 Bench Drill Press. Single speed, takes up to a quarter inch bit - hand feed. $100 2. Stanley #4 Trammel Points. New in original box with Pop-up display card. Corners of box opposite label are split. Picture available at http://www.eastconn.com/tools/m1.jpg $60 3. North Bros Yankee Screwdriver. (in original box). #30A Someone decided to use masking tape to hold the box together but that was so long ago, the tape dried out and peeled right off. Box is rough but has a great label on the top. No mention of Stanley so this must pre-date the buy-out.. Except for one chip out of the wood and the obligatory drop of paint, it looks almost brand new. With the original three bits. $25 4. Stanley #1 Odd Jobs. Your tool box is not complete without this. Missing the scribe and the ruler is NOT original by any means. See it at http://www.eastconn.com/tools/m1.jpg was $60. NOW $50 =========================================================== Books and Catalogs 1. Millers Falls 1949 Catalog. This is the one that introduced the Buck Rogers line. 176 pages, 5" X 7.5" good condition (slight fading on cover from being left partially covered in sunlight) . was $35 NOW $25 2. Stanley Folding Rules - A History and Descriptive Inventory, by Alvin Sellens. like new was $55 REDUCED to $45 3..Sex, Death, and Fly-Fishing by John Gierach , softcover $5 (how did that get in here?) 4. Tools of The Trade by Jeff Taylor .Great book with pictures and essays on various hand tools. Hardcover, like new $10. 5. Fine Homebuilding - #29-35, 38-47 (17 in all) $2.50 each or $35 for all. ======================================================================== ++++ End of thread 18813 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18814 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42615 (thread 18814) ---- From: FrankSronce Date: 1998-05-04 02:56:00 Subject: FS: Books and Goodies 5/98 Have the following items to sell this month. Books are used but not abused. Need to sell to feed my habit (went to flea market last Thursday). Standard OldTools Terms apply. Stanley No. 39-3/4 dado plane. Type 3, with all parts there and all in good working order. Most of the japanning is still there. A little surface rust on the spurs which will come off easily. $150.00 Stanley No. 39-1 dado plane. Type 2 (Early type with "Number 39" and "1 Inch" in milled out areas on the flat side of the body). Less than half of the japanning is there, and it needs some cleaning up. All parts there and all in good working order with the following EXCEPTION. The right hand spur has a 7/32 inch piece missing from one of the narrow pieces above the bottom spur-holding screw. No. 39s in wider sizes are harder to find. Price on this one lowered because of the spur. $175.00 Keen Kutter jointer gauge. Works like the Stanley #386, but KK did not put a knob on their fence. Upper portion which attaches to your plane has almost all its japanning. The fence itself, with its two Keen Kutter badges, has none. I know little about KK tools, and I can't find the one KK reference I have, so I don't know if this is normal or someone removed 100% of the japanning. In any event, there is none on the fence. $100.00 BOOKS COUNTRY FURNITURE. Aldren Watson, paperback version of Watson's 1974 classic. 274 pages. $13. FWW Techniques: Volumes 1, 2, 3, & 5. Hardback. Read all the articles from the early issues of FWW magazine (in hardback and without the advertising). They stopped publishing these after volume 9, and all have been out of print for years. $25 per volume or $85 for all four. THE WOODWRIGHT'S ECLECTIC WORKSHOP. Roy Underhill, paperback. CC 1991, 238 pages. $10 THE IMPRACTICAL CABINETMAKER. John Krenov (need I say more?), hardback, 1979, 160 pgs. $20 A REVERENCE FOR WOOD. Erick Sloane, paperback, 1965. Some spots on cover, rest of book ok. Thirty-three years ago it sold for $2.95. Now you can have it for $10. ++++ End of thread 18814 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18815 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42616 (thread 18815) ---- From: Patrick Leach Date: 1998-05-04 03:37:00 Subject: FS: Stuff Good Cheap.... In the interest to distinguish me from the pack of FMM marketeers, to assure you the best bang for the buck, and to give you 100% con- fidence in purchasing from tool central, I offer a unique policy. From now on, for any tool that's priced under $100, if I fail to describe it accurately, or it fails to meet your expectations, the tool is on me. Free. Nada. You pay nothing. Remember, we're on the honor system here, and if I start to see a trend developing where free tools are being delivered to the same household, we'll have to have a talk. This list continues the scratch n' sniff, sans staples, color photograph version, where you can actually see images of select stuff here at tool central, where user, collector, and dealer alike shop. All you need do is point and click at the hyperlinks (assuming your mail tool is hip enough) or manually tune your web browser to the link, and you're there to experience the stuff as if it's practically in your hands. Do keep in mind that no image has been altered to remove any unsightly blemish, and that the resolution makes the tools look somewhat dirty - there's a tradeoff between high resolution and slow download time and low resolution and quick downloading. I opted for the latter. If you want a high resolution image of any- thing on the list, just yell - film is cheap for digi-cams. If there is anything in particular that you're after, do ping me as there is a lot of stuff here that isn't on the list; the list just represents a snapshot of the previous month's haul with none of the stuff having appeared on a previous list. Thanks for shopping.............. SATANLEY ******** ST1 Wanna be a patternmaker or just look like one, then this is for you - a choice, complete, and 100% original #57 core box; an early model with patent date embossed behind knob and varnished beech tote and knob; this plane was used once or twice (just like O'deen's tools) and then put away; investment quality for the discerning collector. $545.00 ST2 14 cutters for #50 light duty combination plane; these have the machined backs for the models with the lever adjuster; overall light surface rust (non-terminal) and 1/2" bead has been ground to quarter round. $65.00 ST3 #48 match plane; japanned type 1 model with 75% japanning; light surface rust, original cutters, and will clean up to be nice user or collector. $85.00 ST4 Fence, fence rod, and depth stop for your #78 that has these parts MIA; no thumb screws. $15.00 ST5 #42X saw set in near brand new condition; the one to own.$25.00 ST6 #200 honing jig - perfect tool for newbie you to help you down slippery path to surgical sharp plane irons; 95% nickel plating, dulled and dirty, but will clean. $65.00 ST7 #51 gull wing spokeshave with 90% japanning in u-clean condition; fine worker as is after sharpening. $15.00 ST8 #386 jointer gauge; all original, perfect screws (many are replaced, stripped, or missing), and 70% nickel plating; perfect user. $120.00 ST9 #39 3/4 dado plane; everything 100% and proper; japanning 95%. $155.00 ST10 #112 cabinet scraper - the tool to own for perfect scraping; 90% japanning, good wood, and earlier model with patent date on adjusting nut; replaced blade. $195.00 ST11 #71 router; earlier model with the 1/4" and 1/2" cutters, vernier adjust and throat closing shoe; nickel plating 90%, maple knobs; has a crack in main casting, so snarf it for parts or use it as is. $40.00 ST12 #65 1/2 low angle block plane; identical to the #65 but with common cam-activated lever cap; earlier model from ca. WWI; plane has 90% japanning, little nickel plating, but a lot of energy for happy planing. $45.00 ST13 #92 shoulder/rabbet/chisel/fishing lure plane with 99.99% nickel plating; American-made. $155.00 ST14 #151 adjustable spokeshave; this is the model with the two adjusting screws; japanning 85%. $25.00 ST15 #605 jack plane; this is an extra clean model that dates from WWII (maybe the very last Bed Rock to leave New Britain), and has the thick castings, hardwood, and steel adjuster; extra mass will make this one a true worker; 98% japanning, nearly all exterior machining and scarce. $155.00 ST16 #3 smoother new in original box; rosewood model of Type 19; plane has a few tarnish spots hear and there, but appears unused; box is solid, but has stains on cover; $80.00 ST17 #20 countersink with the normally lost adjustable depth stop; this is a nice tool that fits into your brace and has you countersinking instantly. $30.00 ST18 #28 cornering tool for rounding off sharp edges; some surface rust, with about 60% nickel plating. $10.00 ST19 #203 block plane; these are rather scarce block planes and this one is in very clean condition with 99% japanning; tiny, half a pinhead size bruise at back of mouth is only apology. $85.00 ST20 Defiance No. 432 saw set in original box; the box top has split corners with no tape; tool is mint save for the decal flaking. $20.00 ST21 #442 pressed steel saw set; this is the scarce green paint variant offered for just a year or two; paint is 95% and decal remnants remain on handle; if you collect 'em opportunity knocks. $35.00 ST22 #40 scrub plane; this is a rosewood equipped model and has seen very little use; 98% japanning and finish, it's tough to find them in this condition. $110.00 ST23 #271 router; American-made with 100% nickel. $35.00 ST24 #99 side rabbet with depth stop; tool has 95% nickel plating and is the tougher of the two to find. $110.00 ST25 #98 side rabbet, pre-depth stop model that dates from ca. WWI; 90% nickel that's dirty and dulled on blade side of tool. $65.00 ST26 #40 1/2 scrub plane with replace English laminated iron; plane has 75% japanning, good wood, and is a perfect user. $95.00 ST27 #8 jointer; type 13 with 75% of decal remaining on tote; this plane is 100% original and and retains 99% japanning; no chips or crack anywhere and has 4 small owner's filing marks on toe and right side wall; about as nice a #8 as you could hope to find. $155.00 ST28 #5 jack plane; type 19 with rosewood; factory new. $75.00 ST29 #75 bull nose rabbet plane; handy guy for trimming; nearly all japanning with some surface rust on unpainted surfaces that will clean in 1 minute. $25.00 ST30 #130 double end block plane; this is a type 2, with the patent date cast into the main casting; it also has the patent dates stamped into the iron (something I've never seen before); 85% japanning, with most loss on lever cap; a scarce variant and a usefull tool. $65.00 ST31 #65 knuckle joint low angle block plane in near factory new condition; nicest I've had in awhile; a very popular plane that's getting near impossible to find (undamaged) $95.00 ST31 #7C jointer, type 16; extra clean and nice, this one is in near factory new condition with 98% japanning. $125.00 ST32 #60 1/2 low angle block plane; this one dates from the early 1960's and has the blue finish (don't recoil in horror as block planes from that time are as good as the early ones - the ironclad guarantee guarantees it); in very clean shape with practically all finish. $50.00 ST33 #603 Bed Rock smoother; square side model with 95% japanning; sole has some dings (you're gonna lap it anyway, so who cares?) as do the cheeks, but nothing terminal; a nice user. $145.00 ST34 #5C jack plane in original box (green label sans the orange paper, which they did ca. WWII); box has tape at top of label, plane is factory new. $85.00 ST35 #7 jointer, type 18; near factory new. $120.00 ST36 #92 rabbet/shoulder plane; this one dates from ca. WWI, but has a modern English iron and lever cap (original musta busted); plane has surface rust that'll clean ok; a sound user for the budget conscious. $85.00 ST37 #36 1/2L one-foot two-fold boxwood rule with caliper; in near new condition with just a spot of tarnish above the hinge and near the caliper. $30.00 ST38 #8R round (and blade) for #45; nickel intact but dirty. $30.00 ST39 #10R round (and blade) for #45; nickel intact but dirty. $30.00 ST40 #3 smoother, type 13; in nice condition with good patina; no splitting about base of high-knob; all parts original and proper. $65.00 ST41 #9 1/2 block plane; a sound user that won't win any beauty contests (in the MofA pageant, but probably would be first runner-up on others' lists); all parts proper. $30.00 ST42 #78 rabbet plane in craftsman-made wooden box (suitable for storing and shipping); plane is later model with adjusting lever and is in near factory new condition. $65.00 ST43 #4 smoother, type 13; in overall nice shape with some staining on sole and iron (nothing fatal); good wood, all parts original and proper. $50.00 ST44 #66 beader with both fences and single cutter (router); nickel plating 75%. $65.00 ST45 #2101A brace made for the Bell System; these are real working braces, with full ratchet mechanism and extra heavy duty chuck; everything original and proper with nickel plating 95%; 8" sweep. $45.00 ST46 #20 circular plane; japanning 85%, correct cap iron; no pitting to sole; the best-made. $155.00 ST47 #4 smoothing plane in scarce Christmas box, type 19 with rosewood; plane is crispy clean; box is normal orange box with red Christmas box that slips over the normal box; two corners split out of Christmas box, but no tape. $85.00 ST48 #45 combination plane; sweetheart model that's complete; dirty, but should clean ok as the skates have good nickel plating on them; cutters in their original wooden boxes with labels; a bargain for those with extra elbow grease. $195.00 WOODEN PLANES ****** ****** WP1 Hills&Winship 3/4" dado with screwed stop; a perfect plane ready to yield groovy dados. $55.00 WP2 Unused Primus block plane in original box. $50.00 WP3 M.Copeland 3/4" toted match planes; an uncommon size in days of yore is now your good fortune in today's wood- shop; need a cleaning, but perfectly sound and usable. $75.00 WP4 Extra nice gaboon ebony mitre plane with mahogany wedge; plane measures 11" long and has a single slotted (old makers would use them this way if non-slotted irons were unavailable) 1 5/8" iron; plane does not have the usual splitting about the cheeks and the ebony is sound and dense; there is some shallow splintering at bed that can be left as is or shot smooth (I'd leave it); a real stunning plane; see it at: http://www.supertool.com/forsale/ebony.jpg $135.00 WP5 D&M Copeland slide arm beech plough plane; a nice and clean example that needs the mortices in the body lightly filed to make the arms slide easily; a perfect user. $75.00 WP6 Edward Carter, Troy NY 1/4" bead and 1/4" center bead, both of which are fully boxed; crispy planes with original grungy surface; the center bead's body was too narrow for the maker's mark but it's definitely Carter's work. $80.00 WP7 Union Factory, H.Chapin 1/2" center bead; a nice and clean plane in a nice size. $40.00 WP8 Extra crispy clean, probably used once, 3/4" Grecian ogee and bevel molding plane by Auburn Tool Co.; there isn't a check anywhere on this plane; boxing behind blade has a no harm bruise; profile is penciled on heel; plane is sized for 3/4" stock and cuts a molding 1 3/4" wide; see it at (middle plane): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/wplanes1.jpg $100.00 WP9 P.Brooks 3/4" quirked Grecian ovolo and square; in extra clean condition and as solid as you could hope to find; sized to work 3/4" thick stock, the profile is 1 3/4" wide; 3 small nail holes on bottom of fence; see it at (right plane): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/wplanes1.jpg $95.00 WP10 A.Smith/Lowell 3/8" quirked Grecian ovolo and square in superb condition; a beautiful and solid plane by a scarce Lowell, MA maker; profile works 3/8" stock (or thicker) and cuts 1 1/8" wide; see it at (left plane): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/wplanes1.jpg $95.00 WP11 J.W.Richmond 1" quirked Grecian ovolo and bevel; this is a scarce Maine maker and is in great condition; sized for 1" stock, the width of profile is 1 1/4"; see it at (left plane): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/wplanes2.jpg $125.00 WP12 T.Tileston 3/4" quirked Roman ogee and astragal, a classic profile in a nice size - 3/4" deep by 1" wide; wedge appears to be a very early replacement (wouldn't be able to tell if not familiar with Tileston's work); see it at (middle plane): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/wplanes2.jpg $110.00 WP13 W.Raymond 3/4" quirked Roman ogee and astragal; like the previous, but an earlier example with broad and flat chamfers; lignum boxing, a classic example of the ca. 1800 Beverly, MA maker; see it at (right): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/wplanes2.jpg $135.00 WP14 Nice yellow birch toted round (often called a gutter plane since some were used to hollow out storm gutters) with original beech tote; nice flat chamfers, inlaid diamond strike pad, and measure 16" long; crude maker's mark of "HW" on toe; neat plane. $75.00 WP15 Yellow birch panel raiser that came with WP14; this one has "HW" stamped on toe as well, but it's a different and larger stamp; plane has a crusty dry finish to it, tote is pegged to body, and a metal strike pad at toe; nice hollowed and chamfered wedge; tip of tote broke off and was scarfed long ago; 15" long, good profile to panel (doesn't cut the fillet as is typical of early panel raiser), and has the usual wide mouth. $245.00 MISCELLANEOUS ************* MI1 Been looking for a killer set of chisels? Well, look no further as these are a wet dream come true! 11 magnificent socketed bevel edge Witherby paring chisel in shiney new condition (many have original factory bevel). Sizes are 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 7/8" (actually 13/16" but that was close enough to 7/8" back then), 1 1/4", 1 1/2", 1 3/4", and 2" (1" one must still be with the paint can); all have leather washers on the handle, save for the 2" which saw the most use and has a tatterd handle; crispy sets of quality chisels are near extinct on old tool market. $495.00 MI2 5 killer clean (came with MI2) socketed paring chisels by Sampson (successor to Witherby); 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1", and 1 1/4" - great sizes; one handle obvious replacement, and another has mushroomed end; two handles have leather washers. $115.00 MI3 6 steel shrink rules of different metals made by Lufkin, Starrett, and B&S; "R.E.HOLDEN" etch-a-sketched name in them; overall bright and shiney, two with paint; these are nice 1' rules that would really make a convincing case if you bought ST1. $115.00 MI4 Millers Falls' No. 88 jointer gauge; these are less commonly encountered models with the wood knob that can be positioned front or back; japanning 90%; a per- fect alternative to the more expensive #386. $85.00 MI5 Pair of chamfering guides for drawknife; these have 40% nickel plating but retain original spacing rod; great tools for chamfering any square edge in sight. $25.00 MI6 Starrett No. 104 speed indicator in original red box with two tips; shiney and clean, box shows some wear but is sound. $15.00 MI7 Sheffield-made beech spokeshave with plated mouth; 2.5" blade with plenty of life left to it. $30.00 MI8 4 pair of calipers; two inside, two outside; B&S and Starrett; 3 6", 1 5"; sound and ready for use. $35.00 MI9 Cast iron shoe shave with pronounced curve to blade that makes it an affordable alternative to wooden travisher. $20.00 MI10 Graceful and substantial 8" outside calipers with fine adjusting screw; these have extra nice chamfering near the adjusting area; unsigned but look professionally made to my eyes; see it at (rightmost - chamfers don't show in image): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/calipers.jpg $55.00 MI11 Nice 10" dividers with adjustable steel points and fine adjusting screw; these are in fine user condition and a real must for curved layouts; patented May 24, 1887 (Salem Copeland's patent); owner pricked initials near tightening screw; see it at (leftmost): http://www.supertool.com/forsale/calipers.jpg $25.00 MI12 Record 074 shoulder plane; nice and clean example of a popular plane capable of fine shoulder work or general rabbeting. $245.00 MI13 Nice Buck Brothers 6" (blade) spokeshave with fruitwood handles; very scarce size and in clean shape. $75.00 MI14 Millers Falls #1 circular spokeshave; this is the nicest one of these I've had in years, with 95% nickel plating and red paint in mouth; a very clean example of a handy tool. $65.00 MI15 Yankee No. 1555 breast drill with all the bells and whistles and more gears than an 18-wheeler, all of which are in fine working order; price is naturally $55.00 MI16 Saw flatness guage; this is a cross-shaped piece used to test the flatness of saws; measures about 2"x3"; has an adjusting screw to set it, which is different. $10.00 MI17 Millers Falls No. 240 chisel and plane iron sharpener in original red box; this one clamps onto the iron and rolls directly on the stone; both tool and box are crispy clean. $25.00 MI18 Small nickel plated Preston router; measures 6" long, and with two turned knobs; brass ferrules have been polished, and tool has 75% nickel plating; scarce. http://www.supertool.com/forsale/preston.jpg $135.00 MI19 Keen Kutter nickel plated saw set; this is the spring-- loaded job, made by Disston, for setting crosscut saws; nickel plating 98%; clean example for collecting or using. $35.00 MI20 Ohio Tool 036 transitional smoother; these are tough to find in collectible condition and this one is certainly that with much original finish and japanning; globe logo on iron and side grain of tool; a scarce and massive plane. $65.00 MI21 Japanese spokeshave (dunno whether you push or pull it); thing is in sound shape and appears near new save for paint on sole; didn't list this last month as Gunterman moved it on me. $35.00 MI22 Neat little tape measure made to celebrate 50 years of Craftsman's tool (1886-1936); brass body with blue back- ground; metal tap is fine as is paint; some dry crud that will scrape off is on edge of body. $45.00 MI23 Really cool rosewood handled and nickel plated frame coping saw; the blade holder can be adjusted to a par- ticular size length of blade; throat is 12" deep; nickel plating 80% and is flaking in areas; see it at: http://www.supertool.com/forsale/coping.jpg $65.00 MI24 Sargent 408C smoothing plane (equivalent of #3C) in ori- ginal cardboard box; the plane may not ever have been used and just sparkles; the box is all there, has a torn corner, and some paper loss (they covered this with yellow paper) along one side; label is fully readable with just a bit of it missing along bottom; plane dates from 1920's; Sargent stuff is tough to find in original boxes. $175.00 MI25 Ohio Tool Co. 026 transitional jack plane; this is a scarcer variant as it has the red painted casting along with the Auburn, NY location stamped on the iron and in the toe; it's certainly in collectible or usable shape, and if it weren't, it would be lit up in transferno '98. $75.00 MI26 Disston 20" back saw for mitre boxes; this is a ca. WWI example with a perfect applewood tote; saw saw little use, and is still sharp and perfectly straight; etched side is overall bright with some surface rust here and there, other side has more surface rust all of which should clean nicely; back is blued; a quality saw. $55.00 MI27 Disston 12" tenon saw with applewood handle; clean and bright blade, this saw has a perfect handle and dates from ca. WWI; sharp and in far, far better than usual condition. $80.00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Leach Just say Tools busting out all over. etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 18815 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18816 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42617 (thread 18816) ---- From: Bob and Margaret Johnson Date: 1998-05-03 23:50:00 Subject: FS - May Tools - Part 1 of 2 Greetings from Bob's House of "Rust and Patina Parlor". I have reduced prices on quite a few items. Standard Old Tool terms apply. Thanks for lookin'. A225 Lathing Hatchet Underhill Nice hatchet, Handle needs re-wedging. Very good condition $9.00 A226 Lathing Hatchet Unknown Older model, but good condition. Handle needs re-wedging $9.00 A227 Lathing Hatchet Acme Acme Lathing Hatchet. Handle split, otherwise good condition. $9.00 A255 Ship Carpenter's Adze Unknown Long handled Adze with spike for driving caulking. Very nice condition $35.00 A304 Railroad Adze Unknown Head only. 5" wide blade. Needs sharpening, otherwise in very good condition. $20.00 A305 Hand-forged Field Hoe Unknown Head only. Looks like an adze w/ 3 1/2" wide blade. Only needs sharpening and a handle and you'll ready to attack those weeds. $10.00 A306 Hand-forged Field Hoe Unknown Head only. Looks like an adze w/ 3 1/2" wide blade. Only needs sharpening and a handle. With this you'll be the biggest Hoe'r in town. :^) $10.00 A308 Railroad Pick Unknown Head only. Pitted but will clean up. $5.00 A309 Pickaroon Unknown Head only. Single-ended Blade is narrow but deep. $5.00 A310 Pickaroon Unknown Head only. Single-ended Blade is narrow but deep. $5.00 A317 Miner's Pick Iron City Primative Handle. Head marked "Iron City" inside 6-pointed star. Also marked "Extra Hand Made" $10.00 A319 Field Hoe Forged Hoe with socket for pick type handle. Handle is primative. $9.00 A320 Ice Axe Unknown European design. Handle needs wedge, otherwise very good. Be the first on the lake to have one. $15.00 B419 M-F #2 Eggbeater Drill Millers-Falles 2 Paint is worn and it has a passel of patina. Crack in ferrule, but in perfect working order. Wood will clean up nicely. $15.00 B422 Lineman's Bit Irwin 3/4" x 18" Irwin pattern bit with Hexagonal shank (Designed to fit in po*er* tool) Light rust, otherwise very good $6.00 B423 Lineman's Bit Irwin 3/4" x 18" Irwin pattern bit with Hexagonal shank (Designed to fit in po*er* tool) Light rust, otherwise very good $6.00 B424 Lineman's Bit Irwin 3/4" x 18" Irwin pattern bit with Hexagonal shank (Designed to fit in po*er* tool) Light rust, otherwise very good $6.00 B440 Breast Drill Millers-Falls Unk M-F Breast Drill with 18?? patent date. 17" overall length. This model changes gearing by moving the crank gear between one of two holes. Finish is well worn. Wood handles are in good condition. A good user. $20.00 B445 M-F 1410 Brace Millers-Falls 1410 Wood is very good. Some light rust on metal. $20.00 B451 Brace Unknown 10" sweep. Unusual ratcheting mechanism. A stop on either side of ratchet cog snap in or out. Wood is in good condition with few paint smears. Metal is well patina-ed with some rust but no pitting $15.00 B452 Brace Japan, Inc 10" sweep. Only markings are "Vales" and "Japan". Nickle plating is 80%+. Wood needs refinishing but otherwise good. Please buy it before it takes over the toolshed. $10.00 B459 Breast Drill -NDERES Heavy-duty two-speed breast drill. Crank gear shaft fits in either of two holes to change speeds. Gear is held in place by spring-loaded pins so changing gears is easy. Has ususal compliment of dirt, patinga, and light rust. Will clean up nicely. Nick $20.00 B461 10" Brace Unknown Nickle plating is gone. Wood is OK but needs refinishing. Mechanism works fine. Not pretty, but good user. $10.00 B470 Eggbeater Drill Unknown Colorful. Green handles and red gear disk. Light rust, good condition $10.00 B488 12" Brace Stanley 923 Later version 923. Wood is painted black. Direction adjustment collar is plastic. Some light rust. Normal wear on handles. Good inexpensive user. $12.50 B491 No-name 10" Brace w/ Four-Jaw chuck Unknown Wood and metal will clean up nicely. $15.00 B492 Brace Unknown 10", possibly PS&W. Barber pattern chuck. Wood will refinish nicely. Metal has plenty of patina but will clean up $15.00 B494 12" Brace Stanley 965N Black painted wood needs touching up. Metal has been cleaned, cleaned, cleaned. $20.00 B507 10" Brace Probably Stanley. Wood is very good. Plating is shot. Good user with plenty of that desireable patina $10.00 B508 10" Brace Unknown Wood is good. Metal is dirty, but will clean up. Plating mostly gone. Nice little user $7.50 B509 Model 923 8" Brace Stanley 923 Rosewood is good. Plating is not. Works good. Good smaller size brace $20.00 B510 #732, 10 inch Brace Millers-Falls 732 Wood is good but needs refinishing. Plating shows normal wear but is better than most. Nice heavy-duty tool $20.00 B511 Eggbeater Drill Unknown Unknown Manufacturer. Nice drill with bit storage in handle. Wood is good. Red paint on gear wheel is 60%. Metal parts show very little signs of wear. Overall length 13".. $15.00 B512 #743 Breast Drill Stanley 743 Two-speed with level vial. 16" overall length. Handles need refinishing. Light rust on metal parts. Red paint on gear wheel is 95% intact. This will clean up to be a very nice tool. $30.00 B517 Heavy-duty Chain Drill Millers-Falls The heaviest I have seen. Japanning is 75%. Occasional light rust. Set-screw type "chuck" takes 1/2" or smaller shanks. $20.00 B519 Chain Drill Unknown Two jaw chuck. Loads of patina. No markings, but I would guess it to be older model. $15.00 B535 12" "Sampson" Brace PS&W Patent date 1895. Wood is good except couple of minor cracks in pod. Metal is good with pleasant patina. The wire spring that holds the jaws together is missing, otherwise it is in good mechanical condition. Good collector's tool. $20.00 B567 Handyman Eggbeater Drill Stanley H1220A Very nice condition. Paint is 95+% Decal is intact. Eight original bits included. A great tool for the kids or for you. $20.00 B579 Chain Drill Millers-Falls Heavy duty model in excellent condition. Japanning is 95%. Looks nearly new. A good one. $25.00 DS67 Cabinet Scraper Stanley 80 Fair Condition. Japanning is 50%. Blade is poor. Center thumbscrew is missing. Good user. Ca. 1898 $15.00 DS86 Cooper's Drawknife Unknown Drawknife This is a "Serious" drawknife with a 10" wide by 2 1/8" deep blade. Handles appear to be Hickory. Very good condition wxcept one handle is split and blade has minor nicks. Blade marked "?Simmons" $25.00 DS89 Rib Shave (Like a large two-handed Scorp) Unknown DS Used by butchers to take out pork loins and trim back fat. It is 16" between handles and the curvature is 7" deep. If you have some serious "hollowing" to do, this is the tool. Hickory handles with iron ferrules. Need sharpening, but in good shape. $10.00 DS265 Cooper's Shave Unknown Blade is lightly pitted. Handle has a longitudinal crack.. Will clean up with some work. $10.00 DS363 Stanley #80M Scraper Stanley 80M Near-new condition. Later model. Paint is 99% (only minor scratch). Blade like new. No rust. $35.00 DS378 Stanley #81 Scraper Stanley 81 Excellent condition. Nickle plating is worn on tops of handles but otherwise nearly perfect. Rosewood sole is a replacement and is oversize but can be trimmed. There are minor gouges in this piece. The blade is wrong and will need to be replaced, it i $40.00 DS443 #81 Scraper Stanley 81 This is strictly a user. The plating is shot and there is rust aplenty. A real candidate for electrolysis. The rosewood pad is OK. There is no blade. A good user at a good price. $25.00 DS475 Spokeshave Stanley 151 Japanning is 70%, otherwise very good. $25.00 DS479 "Karpenter" brand drawknife, 12" blade. Winsted Very good condition. A serious drawknife. $25.00 DS480 "Karpenter" brand drawknife, 8" blade. Winsted Paint on handles is worn, otherwise very good $25.00 DS481 10" Drawknife Ohio Tool Metal cap missing from one handle. Plenty of surface rust. Will clean up nicely. $15.00 DS539 9" Drawknife by Beatty of Chester, PA. Beatty & Son Good heavy-duty knife. Light rust but will clean up to very good. Wood handles will clean up to excellent with light sanding and refinishing. $35.00 DS576 Pexto 10" Drawknife Pexto Good useable knife that needs resharpening and some cleanup. Wood and metal both in good condition. $25.00 DS585 Scraper Diamond Edge Imitation of Stanley #80. Japanning is 50%. Needs a healty dose of WD-40, but will clean up to be an excellent user. $20.00 DS586 8" Drawknife Sargent Curved edge. Good knife with plenty of use left in it. Light surface rust and handles need refinishing. $35.00 H191 Plum 16 oz Ball Pein Hammer Plumb Complete with decals on head and handle, this is a newer model in near mint condition $9.00 H194 Copper Hammer Unknown 20-24 oz Copper Hammer. Used in Powder & Gas-works plants because they didn't spark. Head is a beautiful color but the two faces are mushroomed. Hickory handle. May include Beryllium which is hazardous to inhale or ingest. $18.00 H197 Stone Cutter's Hammer Unknown Similar to Cross Pein Hammer. Good Condition $10.00 H201 Claw Hammer Philadelphia Tool 16 oz Claw hammer, handle needs re-wedging, otherwise very good $8.00 H202 16 oz Straight Claw Hammer Unknown Handle needs to be re-wedged, otherwise good. Ca 1920's? $4.00 H203 Welder's Slag Hammer Unknown Wooden handled Slag Hammer. Very good condition $8.00 H205 Slag Hammer Unknown Early Slag Hammer, very good condition $10.00 H206 Shipwright's Caulking Mallet Unknown Caulking mallet with wood head reinforced with iron rings. Very good condition $45.00 H207 Cross-pein hammer Unknown Machinists hammer, about 16 oz. Handle is loose, face is slightly mushroomed. Will clean up to Good + $3.00 H213 Log marking Hammer Unknown Like a small sledge hammer with a raised letter on each face. Used to mark logs. This one has an "H" on the faces and is in excellent condition. $50.00 H214 Log marking Hammer Unknown Like a small sledge hammer, this one has "88" on each side of hammer rather than on face. Good condition $35.00 H215 Bushing Hammer Unknown Stoneworker's hammer with raised pyramid pattern on faces. Used for flattening bumps on stone. Approx 8 lb head. Very good condition $25.00 H216 Bushing Hammer Unknown 3-4# head, 30" handle. Stoneworkers hammer. Also good for concrete work $20.00 H224 Brick Hammer Unknown Good Condition, Handle needs to be re-wedged $10.00 H416 Slater's Hammer (Zax) Unknown Home-made with leather washer handle. Head and shank are somewhat pitted. leather rings on handle are uneven. Good useable condition. $10.00 H483 Assay hammer? Unknown Odd hammer with cross-pein face and long, tapered round pick. Sort of like a rock hammer but lighter. My guess is it may have been used in assay work. Handle is a little loose but otherwise very good condition. $17.50 H484 Small Pein Hammer Unknown Probably 6-8 oz. Handle needs re-wedging, otherwise very good. $12.50 H513 Cobbler's Hammer Head Unknown Nice clean head. Just what you need for adjusting those plane blades. Add your own handle and start tappin' $7.50 H514 Cobbler's Hammer Head Unknown Slightly larger than most I've seen. 1" x 1" in cross section and 3" overall length. Face is slightly mushroomed. Will clean up to a nice "precision adjusting tool" $5.00 M75 Owner-mde Bevel Guage Unknown Bevel Guage 12" Oak Bevel Guage with Brass blade. Very well made and in excellent condition $25.00 M77 Chapin-Stevens #252 Marking Guage Chapin-Stevens Marking Guage Brass-trimmed Boxwood. Slight split in sliding piece, otherwise very good. CA 1915 $35.00 M81 Boxwood Marking Guage Unknown Marking Guage Factory made marking guage with printed "ruler" on beam, brass wear plates on face, and wooden thumb screw. End of beam is cracked thru pin hole. Otherwise very good condition. $15.00 M107 30" Draftsman's T-Square K & E T-Square Excellent Condition. $10.00 M 121 Brass, Nickle plated Beam Dividers Unknown Beam Dividers Nice set with one point and one inking pen. One holder has fin screw adjustment. These are in a leather-covered, felt lined, french-fitted case. Dividers are in excellent condition, on small area of corrosion on one piece. Box is worn at edges and fa $30.00 M134 Boxwood Folding Rule, 24" Lufkin 751 Ca. 1918. Fair condition. Brass aligning wires bent or missing. One side of two segments is faded $10.00 M389 4" Outside Calipers Unknown Nice pair. Marked with owner's initials but no manufacturers mark. Adjusting nut is knurled brass replacement. Light rust on threads and tool needs cleaning. $8.00 M412 Folding Rule Stanley 163 Stanley 4-fold 2' Rule. 1/8, 1/10,1/12 scales plus architect's 1/4,1/2, and 3/4 scales (for measuring from blueprints. Some paint chipping, but scales all readable. Alignment pins missing. An inexpensive, but handy rule $10.00 M464 #680 4-fold, 2 ft. rule. E. C. Simmons Redline Stained in places, but markings are readable. All alignment pins missing. marked in 1/8ths on one side and 1/16ths on other. $10.00 M471 Architects Rule Stanley 53 1/2 Four-fold, two-foot folding rule with architects scales on one side and 8ths and 16ths on the other. Outside faces have very minor scratches and dirt. Otherwise very good condition. $75.00 M536 Triangular Engineer's Rule Gramercy Pearwood. Made in Germany. 6 scales. Pukey yellow color. Minor dings from normal use, but paint and markings are 99%. $5.00 M548 12" Combination Square Corsair New in the plastic bag with label. Made in U.S.A. With level and scribe. Graduated in 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32. New condition. $10.00 M550 Bevel Guage Stanley 18 The all-steel model. This one has very light surface rust but will clean up nicely. $5.00 M551 4-fold, 3 foot rule Stanley 56 1/2 Sweetheart trade mark. Numbers on outside are faded and hard to read. Markings on inside are clear. $5.00 M552 American Standard Wire Guage Brown & Sharpe 688 Circular guage for measuring wire sizes and thickness of metals. Good for measuring drill bits. Excellent condition except owner painted his initials on it. $10.00 M553 5" Outside Calipers Millers Falls Very good condition except owners name has been engraved. $7.50 M554 6" Outside Calipers Unknown No markings. Some surface grime, but basically good condition. $5.00 M555 3" outside Calipers L S Starrett Bow-legged variety. Some surface grime, but good condition $7.50 M565 Rosewood Bevel Guage Unknown Wood is nice, but blade has rust spots that will clean up without pitting. Not a quality tool, but functional. $10.00 M578 Rosewood Bevel Gauge 8" Unknown Unknown manufacturer. Stainless steel blade. Wood and metal in very good condition. Only needs light cleaning. $10.00 ++++ End of thread 18816 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18817 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42618 (thread 18817) ---- From: WLGhio Date: 1998-05-04 00:09:00 Subject: FS PLANES Stanley #100 1/2 Squirrel tail patternmaker's Plane, made 1936-1962. Radiused front to back and aside to side. This plane is pristine. Never been sharpened. Japanning slightly chipped under the squirrel tail right at the base of the sole. $110.00 Stanley #13 Circular Plane. This is a veteran, made between 1871 and 1909. Japanning is about 70-80%, about what you would expect for a plane that has been around for a hundred years. This one has the lateral lever, so dates after 1885. If you like patent dates, this one's got them all: 6-17-79 for the dovetailed sole; 4-19-92 for the blade and "Bailey's Patent Dec. 24, 1867" on the chipbreaker. $120.00 Stanley #5. This is one of the post-War wonders with the thick varnish, but other than that it is a Good + plane. $38.00 STARRETT DIAL INDICATOR Dial test indicator catalog #196A. This is the jeweled dial Reading to .001. The set is complete w/ all attachments, the original hard case and the original box. Even has the inspection slip included when the thing was packed at the factory. Condition is excellent. $60.00 BOOKS The Wheelwright's Shop by George Strurt. Cambridge University Press, 1930, (the original having been published in 1923), 115 pages. This is an somewhat abridged version that was intended for use in the schools. Chapters are: The Wheelwright's Shop Timber: Buying Timber: Carting and Converting The Sawyers Timber: Seasoning "Wheel Stuff" Hand-Work "Bottom-Timber" Waggons Curves, Tapering and Shaving Learning the Trade Wheels: Dish Wheels: Spokes and Felloes "Stocks" and Ringing the Wheel" The Smith: "Getting Ready" The Smith: "Putting On and Boxing-On" Iron-Work and Jobbing Condition of the book is good, there being slight damage along one edge of the spine. $25.00 ABC's of the Steel Square and its Uses. Fred T. Hodgson >From the preface: "Being a condensed compilation from the Copyrighted works of Fred T. Hodgson, author of "The Steel Square and Its Uses," Practical Carpentry" and numerous other works on building and construction." This may be the condensed version, but it still runs 135 pages of geometric tricks you can perform with a steel square. Hardbound. $8.00 MITER BOX PARTS Not sure what this is called. Fits a Goodell-Pratt miter box and most likely some of the early MF boxes. It is a 3 1/2 inch tall, 3/8 dia. post that projects vertically. It holds the piece being cut in place by clamping it to the backface of the saw table. Handy little accessory that was supposed to come w/ your saw, but is missing in 90% of the ones I have seen. The base, technically a polygon but looks like a triangle w/ two truncated corners, slides in the V shaped groove at the end of the surface on which you bed the piece to be cut. If you own the Goodell-Pratt miter box and ever wondered what the two V's were for, this is the answer. I have two available, but you will have to fashion your own clamps. $5.00 each. MARKING GAUGE The (non-tool) dealer I picked this up from had it out as a 'whatsit' Said it came from a load of stuff picked up at the site of an Oregon shipwreck from the last century. Not a story I would buy, but an intriguing piece all the same. It is a hand-made double beam marking gauge. The pin on each beam faces outward and the 'D' section beams are about 11" long. They pass through the 3/4 face of a 3 3/4 x 2 x 3/4 inch block that serves as the fence and lock with a rather elaborate three-piece wedging system that locks both sides simultaneously. The patina is such that I can't identify the wood. In fact, it needs a good cleaning. This is purely an interest item, both beams have splits at the pin such that I wouldn't trust it for use. $5.00 Standard Oldtools terms. Bill Ghio wlghio@a... bghio@t... ++++ End of thread 18817 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18818 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42619 (thread 18818) ---- From: Bob and Margaret Johnson Date: 1998-05-04 00:06:00 Subject: FS - May List - Part 2 of 2 MBLP439 Capewell Block Plane P. S. & W Block Similar to Stanley 110. Blue japanning on body and nickle on cap are in excellent condition. Paint smear on one side will remove easily. A rugged little plane. Capewell was a trade name of Peck, Stowe and Wilcox. $15.00 MBLP468 Stanley 9 1/2 Block Plane Stanley 9 1/2 Japanning mostly gone. Very light rust. Light cleaning will yeild a good user $15.00 MBLP562 Block Plane Stanley 19 2-18-13 patent date. Type 12. Knuckle cap block plane. Sole is pitted and there is a small chip out of side at rear. Otherwise very good condition. Good user plane for those of you who favor the knuckle-block style. $30.00 MBP186 Stanley "Defiance" #3 Smooth Plane Stanley #3 Vertical crack in knob, both knob and tote need refinishing, lots of light surface rust. In short, a damn good piece. $10.00 MBP359 Shelton #4 Old-Style Smooth Plane Shelton #4 Old-style Shelton with adjusting screw build into blade cap. Ca. 1920's. Excellent Condition $25.00 MBP360 Revenoc 5 1/2 Jack Plane Stanley 5 1/2 Made by Stanley for Hibbard, Spencer and Bartlett. "Revenoc" trademark on blade. Wood is excellent (Rosewood). Bed has been repainted. Metal is excellent. $40.00 MBP478 Jointer Plane, type 11 Stanley 7c Tip of tote has been neatly removed. Japanning is 80%. Wood is very good. Metal is very good. $60.00 MBP496 Sargent Jack Plane Sargent Metal is good except for some surface rust and paint. Tote has clean, repairable break. Wood needs refinishing. $25.00 MBP497 #6 Foreplane, Type 15 Stanley 6 Plenty of rust and patina. Light chipping on front edge of lever cap. Tip off tote but knob good. Good user $35.00 MBP498 #6 Foreplane, Type 15 Stanley 6 Wood needs refinishing, japanning is 80%. Plating on lever cap is worn. Will clean up to very nice plane. $65.00 MBP500 Later model 605 Stanley 605 Frog has been broken and well repaired. Doesn't affect performance. Tip off tote. Tote toe screw is improper replacement. Blade marked "made in Canada". Lever cap may be a replacement. Other than that, it's a good user at a good price. $40.00 MBP559 7C Type 11 Jointer Plane Stanley 7C Very nice low-knobber. Rosewood and metal are very good. Japanning is 80+ %. Area of rust near toe will clean up. $70.00 MISC165 Miter Jack Unknown Rare & Unusual tool. Sort of a combination miter clamp and shooting board, used to make miter joints. A series of walnut triangular pieces slide on a walnut base with a wood screw clamp made of Hickory. Ca 1840. $85.00 MISC166 Spanish style hand Adze Jaguar Adze This device consists of an adze blade with shank connected to wooden handle with steel stirrup and wedge. Blade is in excellent shape. Handle is rough , having split and been repaired. $40.00 MISC218 Butteris Unknown Farrier's Tool for trimming hooves. One piece iron. Needs wooden handle $8.00 MISC232 Tool Holder Unknown 5 1/2" long tool holder with winged chuck nut. Handle is boxwood? with only 1 minor chip. Overall condition is very good. Only one tool. $5.00 MISC264 Farrier's Hoof Knife Wooden handle, brass tang, could be reground for a nice marking knife $5.00 MISC266 Homemade Caulking Iron Unknown 12" overall length, 5 1/2" blade. One piece iron w/ octagonal handle. Stamped N.F.E. Co. Good condition. $3.00 MISC273 Branding Iron Everhot 17" long w/ wooden handle marked "Everhot". Has 1" high letter "M" at the business end. So if your initial is "M", you have to have this to mark your work, possessions, kids, etc. $10.00 MISC293 Chatillon Upholster's Button Needle Chatillon Heavy 16" long awl with spear point and "eye" near point. Used for installing buttons on upholstered furniture. Nicely turned wood handle. $15.00 MISC299 Concrete Edger & Divider Various 1 Concrete edger and 1 Concrete Divider (Seamer?) Good useable tools for those of you who like to play in the mud. $10.00 MISC322 Tobacco Plug Cutter P.J. Sorg. Spearhead model. Mounted on a board. Looks sort of like a mitre trimmer. $20.00 MISC323 Steelyard Unknown These are hanging "balances" for weighing smaller items. This one has two hooks and two scales. Very good condition. $45.00 MISC324 Homemade Steelyard Unknown Balance Scale for weighing. Very well made. Good condition. Not legal for trade :^) $40.00 MISC325 Homemade Steelyard Unknown Balance Scale for weighing. Very well made. $40.00 MISC326 Cooper's Flagging Iron Unknown Used to spread the staves for caulking. Very well made. Excellent condition. $32.00 MISC327 Cooper's Flagging Iron Unknown Home made flagging iron. Good condition. $25.00 MISC329 Gasoline Blowtorch Unknown No manufacturer's mark on this anywhere. It's been shined up. Ready for your lamp-making pleasure. $20.00 MISC330 Gasoline Blowtorch Clayton&Lambert Good working condition. Decal is 95%. Will shine up nicely. $15.00 MISC331 Gasoline Blowtorch Turner Brassworks Good working condition. Will shine up nicely. $15.00 MISC401 Hay Knife Unknown 4" wide x 20" long blade. 16" hickory handle. Pitted but useable. $10.00 MISC429 Wiss Tin Snips Wiss 9 12 1/2" long, old-style snips. Good condition. Owners name stamped in inside of one handle. $5.00 MISC542 5" Hand Grinder Unknown Nice little grinder. One-piece cast iron housing, open so gear is exposed. Wheel is in good condition. No tool rest but you can fix that. $30.00 MSP123 Stanley #50 Beading or Combination Plane Stanley 50 Patent Date 8-11-03 and "B" Casting mark on frame and fence. Seven cutters + T&G cutter. Condition is Very Good. Nickle plating is 80% on main frame, goon on fence. Slitting cutters are good. No depth stop $100.00 MSP127 Union #42 Match Plane Union 41 Similar to Stanley #48, Very good condition. No cutters. $35.00 MSP240 Stanley #46 Type 10/11 Stanley 46 Nice combo plane, nearly complete, and in very good condition. Has all parts except slitting blade, rear depth stop, and wing nut. Has 7 plough cutters and 1 tongue cutter. Plating is 80%. Rosewood is excellent. $250.00 MSP241 1Box of Cutters For Stanley 55 (#2Box) Stanley 55 Box #2, 12 Cutters. #13 & 14 Plough missing, #18 1/2 Plough added. #1 Fillitster & #5 Match included. Box label is worn and stained but completely readable. Box has no top. Blades in very good condition w/ only light rust. $75.00 MSP473 Scrub Plane Stanley 40 Sweetheart blade. Japanning is 60%. Owner name scratched in side. Wood will refinish to excellent. $75.00 MSP520 Scrub Plane Stanley 40 Wood is good except owners initials lightly carved in top of tote and repairable crack at base of knob. Japanning is 80%. Otherwise metal has only normal dings. Blade is marked "Stanley/Rule & Level" which marks this as an earlier (Pre-Sweethart) model $75.00 MSP544 Type 4 Combination Plane Stanley 45 Early model with front knob on main plane. Floral pattern. Nickle is darkened with age and well worn on skates. Rosewood is good but could use a refinishing. Wingnut holding cutter is missing one wing. Front and rear depth stops but no slitter. One $150.00 P278 24" Pipe Wrench New Britain A manly wrench and just the thing for those "honey do" projects. Jaw serrations somewhat worn, otherwise just normal dings and patina $10.00 P280 Automotive "Monkey" Wrenches - Set of 4 Various 4 wrenches, various mfr, including Ford. All in very good condition $15.00 P282 Wooden-Handled Pipe Wrenches Various Set of 4 Wooden-handled pipe wrenches by Stillson and ohers. Sizes: 8,10,10,14. All in good conditions except 1 10" has cracked handle $35.00 P283 8" Pipe Wrench Unknown 8" pipe wrench. Ca 1930's. Good condition. $8.00 P284 Fulton 14" Pipe wrench Fulton Good condition. $5.00 P285 Stillson 14" pipe wrench Stillson Very good condition $10.00 P286 Pexto 14" Pipe wrench Pexto $10.00 P287 Combination Pipe & Monkey Wrench Bemis & Call Another one of those weird combinations. Wooden handle, double jawed. 14" pipe wrench and monkey wrench. Metal parts have been painted red. Otherwise good condition. $10.00 P288 10" Nippers Unknown Dated 1878. Replaceable cutters. Flat-faced. Good tool. Good condition. Good price. $10.00 P289 8" Rod-busters Pliers Unknown These are meant for twisting and tying wire. Good condition. $5.00 P290 Ford Open-end wrenches, Set of 5 Ford Set of 5 open-end wrenches marked "Ford". Good condition. $20.00 P291 Auto Kit Wrench Unknown Combination 5/8 open-end and 9/16" box wrench marked "Auto Kit 100" $4.00 P300 Ford Wrenches Ford Tool Kit Wrenches from Ford Automobiles. Some are open-end/box combination and some are open-end/socket combination. I have several of each. Your choice $5 ea. $5.00 P332 Set of 3 Nippers Unknown Set of 3 nippers. 2 are 8" long, 1 is 10". Condition good. $18.00 P348 14" pipe wrench Stillson Teeth in lower jaw show some wear, but otherwise in good shape $5.00 P432 7" Pipewrench F.E. Wells & Son Small, wooden handled pipewrench. Patina and very light rust, otherwise very good condition $7.50 P433 12" Pipewrench Unknown Wooden-handled. Several repairable cracks in handle. Dirty and light rust. $5.00 PUB521 Elements of Computer Mathematics-Talbot/et al Brooks/Cole OK, so it's not a tool book. I thought you bit-twiddlers might be interested. Designed as an introductory text for those in computer-related fields. Hard cover, 1985 $7.50 PUB522 Furniture you can make Sunset 1972 Sunset Book on making furniture. Worth it for the outdoor and children's furniture. $5.00 PUB523 Sunset Ideas for Leisure Rooms Sunset 1975 Sunset Book. Good ideas for home offices, dens, art studioos, shops, sewing rooms, etc. that only need updating to 90's fashions. $5.00 PUB524 Sunset - Things to Make for Children Sunset Things to entertain kids including doll houses, sandboxes, birdhouses, games, etc. 1967. $5.00 PUB525 Great Possibilities for your Home Georgia-Pacific Remodelling and furniture projects using wood (surprise). 1979. Worth the price for the section on patio covers and decks if nothing else $5.00 PUB526 The Practical Book of Built-in Furniture Grammercy 1959. Hardcover. You'll chuckle over the designs but the How-to section does have some good info for the beginner who only has hand tools. $5.00 PUB527 Popular Science Home Guide to Plumbing, Heating, Harper & Row and Air Conditioning. 1967. Some of the material is dated, some is not. Good coverage of the subjects and a handy reference. $5.00 PUB528 Popular Science How to Build Your own Furniture Harper & Row R. J. DeCristoforo, 1965. The Ol' master of P*w*r tools shows you how. Basic treatise on carcase construction, plus doors, tables, chairs. For the beginner, there's no Tage Frid hiding in these pages. $5.00 PUB529 Industrial Arts Woodworking Bennett John Feirer, 1965. School text by the ol' master. Good info for the beginning to intermediate woodworker. Covers design, hand and power tools, joints, finishing , upholstery, etc. 431 pages hardbound $20.00 PUB531 Manual Training for Common Schools Scribner 1910. Design, joints, use of hand tools, finishing, including how to brew your own finishes. Lots of photos of your favorite tools. $20.00 PUB532 Woodwork, A Basic Manual, 1974 Little, Brown A little of this and a little of that about woodworking, but nothing in depth. A shallow examination of the art. The only redeeming feature is some photos of some well-designed and well-made pieces. $5.00 PUB533 Insulation & Weatherstripping, 1979 Sunset The title says it all. How to make your joint tighter and warmer. $5.00 PUB534 Antique Tools, An illus. value guide. Collector Books 1975. Hand-drawn illustrations of a wide variety of tools along with 1975 prices. Comb-bound. Worth it if you want to know what a cant-hook or a buttress look like. $5.00 S104 Home-made "Turning" Saw Unknown Owner-made saw with 1/2" x 12" hacksaw blade $10.00 S248 Oak Turning Saw, 3/4" Blade Unknown Very good condition $25.00 S275 Chatillon #350 Meat Saw Chatillon Light rust on frame. Handle is in very good condition. Blade is 5/8" x 22". $25.00 s276 Meat Saw Unknown Very old meat saw in nice condition. Blade is 3/4" x 23". Handle has a repairable crack. $20.00 S343 Keyhole Saw Unknown Small keyhole saw with metal handle. good conditi $5.00 S396 Backsaw and Folding Miter Box Bishop Saw is marked Geo. H Bishop on blade and back. Patend Date 1906. Blade is toothed on two sides and one end. Blade is locked into handle with a lever. Miter Box is 3 pieces of wood hinged together. Center piece has adjustable metal guides for 45 and 9 $75.00 S427 Millers-Falls #12 Hacksaw Frame Millers Falls 12 Good, heavy duty hacksaw frame (w/ blade) Light rust. Bakelite handle grips. $5.00 S485 Sawset Unknown Probably a taintor. Japanning mostly worn off, light surface rust. and pin holding dial knob has been replaced with a small nail (which works very well). Nevertheless a good workable set. $12.50 S486 Sawset Unknown A different type of sawset. The anvil is angled and is adjusted up or down via an adjusting screw. A locking nut holds is secure. Japanning mostly gone. Light surface rust. $20.00 S540 22" skew back tool crosscut saw. Disston D-8 4-screw model. "10" stamped in heel of blade. Blade has light rust but will clean up nicely. Handle is good + condition but needs refinishing. Will make excellent toolbox saw. $25.00 S569 Crosscut Disston 8 7 point saw with wheat-motif handle. 5-screw. 26" long, 1 1/2" wide at tip and 6" wide at handle. Blade has some surface rust. Handle needs refinishing. $15.00 S573 Disston D-8 Rip Saw Disston 8 5 point, 5 screw. Skew back. Finger hole handle. Wood and metal both very good. Light surface staining on blade and handle has repairable crack and needs refinishing. $20.00 S574 Disston Rancher Disston R-1 10-point crosscut, 26". Laminated beechwood handle. 4-screws. Blade needs cleaning. Handle shows some light checking on one side and needs refinishing. Good utility saw. $12.00 S575 Handyman Crosscut saw Stanley 1526 26", 8 point. Birch handle with wheat motif. Blade has some light surface rust. Handle needs cleaning. Good toolbox saw. $8.00 SL111 Stanley Handyman 24" level Stanley H-1294 A modest little level in good condition. Metal plate over vial is tarnished. Trademark is excellent. Good level for the kids or for rough work, where you don't want to risk a fancy level.` $7.50 SL112 48" Mason Level American 75181 Brass-trimmed Mahogany level. Curved vials indicate is of later manufacture. Perfect working order, but not pretty. $20.00 SVY97 Walnut Plumb Bob Unknown Plumb Bob Nicely turned Walnut Plumb Bob 3" long x 3/4" diam. Excellent condition except has slight groove around perimeter near point, and point is slightly dinged. The perfect desk ornament for the Galoot. Or, make it into a Bolo Tie :^) $15.00 SVY99 Home made Brass Plumb Bob Unknown Plumb Bob Nicely turned from 3/4" Brass Rod. Very Good condition. Has initials "J.F." stamped in side $20.00 WBP23 Wooden Fore Plane Unknown Fore Wood is excellent with no cracks or checks. Iron has been slightly mushroomed at rear. $30.00 WBP24 Wood Jointer Plane Unknown Jointer Gorgeous beechwood plane with Walnut Burl handle set off center. Atkinson Bros. double iron. Iron dowel set in front . Some slight checking on body. Handle cracked but repairable. Iron mushroomed slightly. $40.00 WBP26 Wooden two-man Jack Plane Unknown Jack Unusual. Has two "handlebars" dovetailed into body so two people could use it two-handed. Double iron by Sandusky. Body is birch with minor checking. Wedge is home made. Iron is in very good condition $35.00 WBP27 Beech Horned Smoother Unknown Smoother Body is laminated from about 7 pieces of beech, not counting horn. Good shape except minor checking and small piece chipped out in front of horn. Double iron marked "Humphreysville. . ." is obviously early vintage but in good shape $35.00 WMP38 J. W. Farr 5/8" Beechwood Rounder J. W. Farr Rounder rounder made by James W. Farr, dated 1832-1851. Wood and metal in excellent condition. $35.00 WMP45 1/2" Hollow Compass Moulder A. Geddes Hollow Compass Unusal. Wood and metal are excellent. Small piece broken off tip of wedge. Deep chamfer on edges is suggestive of 18th century specimens $40.00 WMP48 1 3/8" Cherry wood Rabbet Unknown Rabbet Very nice home made rabbet. Wood is excellent. Still has saw marks on nose end. Blade is very heavy and not tapered. Wedge is wide and flat. Good dispay or user item. $30.00 WSP377 Coopers Sun Plane Ohio Tool This plane is absolutely gorgeous! It is a dark wood with highly figured grain. There is very minor checking here and there and one 3" long check on one side near the sole which does not affect performance, and a small patch of rough grain on the sole $85.00 Y372 Yankee Screwdriver North Brothers 30 Plating is worn and handle has a few dings. Otherwise good working condition. This is the large model about 18" long. $12.00 Y381 Yankee Screwdriver #130A Stanley 130A Excellent condition. Plating is intact and shows only light wear. Wood handle has paint chipped around bottom edge and around largest diameter, otherwise perfect. This is the best of these I have seen. $25.00 Y382 Yankee Screwdriver #130A Stanley 130A Good condition. Plating is worn, but still more "silver" than "gold". Wood handle is dinged but will refinish nicely. Good working condition. $15.00 Y384 Yankee Screwdriver North Brothers 31A This is slightly larger than the 130A and has a thicker barrel and shaft. Plating is worn. Finish is worn off handle and there are minor rust spots on the chuck. Otherwise in very good condition. Works perfectly. $20.00 Y404 M-F Spiral Ratcheting Screwdriver Miller's-Falls 61A Excellent Condition. Plating is nearly 100%. Wood has only minor dings. $20.00 Y406 Spiral Ratcheting Screwdriver Miller's-Falls 61 Nice tool. Plating is 80+ %. Wood handle is dinged and needs refinishing. Overall Good+. $15.00 ++++ End of thread 18818 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18819 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42620 (thread 18819) ---- From: Chuck Zitur Date: 1998-05-04 04:13:00 Subject: FS stuff Yo Galoots Its May and the rites of spring have us chasing the elusive gloat from auction to garage sale to flea market. Hope you all have good luck. Here are some newer items for you. Same twisted terms--like Old Tool Standard Terms with review on large sales to unknown people. As usual I will be busy trying to buy a lot of things from others but will get back to you as quickly as possible. My email is anchor@m... I have jpegs of most of these items. Let me know if you want to see them. Wood Planes FWP2 A. Howland & Co NY marked on the front and #73 3/4 marked on the tail of this handled groove plane. It has been dipped and stripped but can still be hip (Sorry) The blade has some rust on it but the business end is okay. The metal fence surface is pitted but operable $19.00 FWP3 An 8" coffin smoother marked 3 on the front. The 2" Moulson Bros cutter is in good shape. Inset strike button on the heel. Wood is fine with no cracks. $14.00 FWP4 A small 7" by 2" coffin smoother with a brass wear plate on the bottom held on with 23 tiny screws. A lignum vitae striking button on the top front. The blade is worn down but still usable. Cheek cracks on both sides. $22.00 FWP5 A Greenfield Tool Co (1851 to 1883) 7/8" #238 skew rabbet plane. The slitting cutter at the front is lacking its wedge. The iron is pitted but ok at the working end. Has a brass screw held depth stop. Wood is uncracked. $19.00 FWP6 R&C CARTER TROY (NY 1847 to 1848 ) 3/4" groove plane. 2 age cracks at the front. The metal fences are pitted but mostly smooth. $22.00 FWP7 R&C CARTER TROY (NY 1847 to 1848 ) 3/4" tonguing plane with integral fence. Great shape with exception of steel face that has some pitting. Wm Ash and Co cutter. $22.00 FWP9 A 1.75" skew rabbet plane. Markings are worn away. Has been stripped and refinished but other wise good. $17.00 FWP11 R&C CARTER TROY (NY 1847 to 1848 ) 3/8" single boxed bead molding plane. The rear boxing is missing but other wise this in good condition. $15.00 FWP12 R&C CARTER TROY (NY 1847 to 1848 ) 1/2" single boxed bead molding plane. Other than a chipped area on one side this is in great shape with a Ash iron. $22.00 FWP13 R&C CARTER TROY (NY 1847 to 1848 ) 5/8" single boxed bead molding plane. The rear boxing is broken but all there. Just needs a little glue. There is a 3/4" depression on the fence side which will not affect performance. $17.00 FWP14 R&C CARTER TROY (NY 1847 to 1848 ) 3/4" single boxed bead molding plane. Real sweet shape. $22.00 FWP15 A TUCKER & APPLETON (1868 to 1871) 1/2" skew dado plane. This has been refinished so has a bleached appearance. The main wedge has been replaced with a plain looking but effective piece of oak. Has a slitter blade and thumbnut controlled brass depth stop. $20.00 FWP16 D. COPELAND (Hartford Conn c. 1820) 1/2" single boxed bead plane. The rear boxing is cracked but all there. Wear at edges. Wedge is frazzled at top. Otherwise good. $20.00 FWP17 UNION FACTORY WARRANTED H. CHAPIN (1829 to 1866 New Hartford Conn) This appears to be a 3/4" nosing plane. Wear at edges and the top of the wedge is fuzzy but other wise all there. $16.00 Metal Planes A Bedrock 604 1/2 smooth.(Type 6 or 6A) This was painted blue when I got it but was able to remove the paint. Still has about 85% japanning or better. The front knob is an undamged proper replacement. Tote is unbroken and uncracked. Dings and scratches in various areas just from hanging around as it has. The lateral adjustment lever was missing. I have removed one from a #5 same vintage plane. There is not enough pin left to peen over so that will have to be replaced. Sweetheart blade has some mushrooming at top from being hammered (?) $185.00 A Fulton smooth plane. This is a Sargent #407. (#2 size) All complete and unbroken. Needs some cleaning and some paint drops removed. At least good maybe good plus. Part of a Fulton decal left on tote. I will guesstimate this to be 1940's vintage. The Heckel book says that these go from $200.00 to $400.00 but you can have this for $110.00 Another Fulton (#407 Sargent) smooth plane the same as the one before. Also needs some cleaning but still deserves a good or better rating. This one $95.00 Stanley #75 bullnose plane. Has about 75% paint and very little corrosion. C. 1950's $25.00 Langdon Mitre Box Co #88 Perfection jointer gauge for iron planes. These were distributed by Millers Falls for years having purchased Langdon in 1876. This has about 50% paint and rust on bare surfaces that will mostly clean off. All original parts. $58.00 Drills or Braces Stanley #617 egg beater drill. Has a solid main gear with orange paint and a part of the Stanley Tools decal. Needs cleaning but only 70% of nickel plating will remain. $19.00 Saws A Stanley backsaw 28" x 5" marked on the blade STANLEY MITER BOX SAW MADE EXPRESSLY FOR STANLEY RULE AND LEVEL PLANT NEW BRITAIN CONN USA BY HENRY DISSTON AND SONS PHILADELPHIA PA USA The blade has a golden patina that easily polishes off. This saw shows the marks of sliding through the mitre box guides but otherwise was not much used. No pits and the blade will polish to brand new appearance Only fault is a tiny hang hole drilled at the toe of the spine. Handle is 100% but it looks like it was properly refinished at some point. $38.00 A Disston D-8 8 tip with a 100% readable logo. The saw has some dark areas that will clean up with out any pitting. The handle is unbroken, unchipped and uncracked. The only faults are some paint spots and the letters MD carved into the handle. C. 1925. $15.00 A Simonds Docking Saw with a 30" blade. These were used for rough sawing in the construction and shipping trades. This one was not used as the logo is still very readable. I doubt that you could find much in the way of pits on this. Cast iron handle has all of its original finish. 4 tpi. $35.00 A 3" by 3/4" sharpening stone in a leather case marked SIMOND'S GRINDING WHEELS PHILADELPHIA 37, PA Logo is about 80% there. Stone was not used much. $7.00 Patented April 10 1917 is marked on the instructions that are included with this Simonds No 342 Saw Tool. This is the 3 piece set for jointing,filing, gauging and setting the teeth on a cross cut saw. In the original box. Tools are unused, box has some stains but is in otherwise great shape. $40.00 Measuring A General Hardware Mfg Co #16 multipurpose bevel, square, center finder, circle divider, and drill point gauge. Also has Tap Drill Size charts. Marked 1937. Dark staining that will polish out to leave some fine pitting. $15.00 Brown and Sharpe Mfg Co Providence, RI USA Pat Oct 5, 1897 all marked on this 5" caliper. Minimal wear but someone lightly carved their initials into the leg. $20.00 A M.W.R.CO (MW Robinson) 12" ornate cast iron plumb and level. Also marked DAVIS PAT. Evidently Robinson manufactured these after the Davis patents had ran out.(?) Has very little original paint and only about 70% of the plating on the vials. The vials are unbroken but one is dry. There are no breaks or chips in the body of this tool. $78.00 Hammers Hatchets Axes Etc A stirrup type bowl adze. The bit is 4" wide. The handle is missing part of its spur. If you wanted to use this you would probably need to cut a new handle. The bit is a hammered on piece of cast steel. It this is factory made I can not find any marks. This was used and has many scrapes and scratches but very little pitting. $72.00 Heller Bros and a mule marked on this horseshoe turning hammer. The hammer turns not the shoe. It has 3 striking faces (front, left and right) and a cross pein at the rear. The head is good the handle is a replacement that is functional. $13.00 Champion Tool Co and an anvil stamped into the head of this die sinkers hammer. I would not be surprised if is this company was a subsidiary of Champion Blower and Forge. They made many of those oh so neat blacksmiths post drills and cast iron forges. Head is good, handle is a replacement that needs better fitting. $15.00 Email me at: anchor@m... ++++ End of thread 18819 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18820 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42621 (thread 18820) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-04 04:29:00 Subject: FS: Book and ephemera part 2 The May 1998 Toolemera Press For Sale list groberts@s... part 2: This listing is posted first to the Oldtools list and to my private email list. Sometime thereafter it is posted to the Usenet. If you would like to be placed on the private email list, please let me know.. NOTE: I am now taking WANTS and SEARCH requests. If there is a particular title that you are looking for, please contact me for the particulars. Books and ephemera on tools and trades.... Prices (US) include postage (heavy books shipped Priority Mail). International and Canadian customers please contact me to determine shipping deferential. Please remember that I ship AFTER receipt of payment, not upon receiving your email order. It usually takes two to three weeks after the list is posted for all items to be shipped. If you have any questions concerning an item, please contact me ASAP as a firm order will take precedence over questions. Once you have received confirmation of your order, please send your check or money (ORDER (MADE OUT TO GARY ROBERTS NOT TO THE TOOLEMERA PRESS) to: Gary Roberts, 1077 South Street, Roslindale, MA 02131-2321 ........................................................... Abbreviations: (HB = hardback, SB = softback, DJ = dustjacket, Illus = illustrated, pgs = total pages, CVR = cover, Ex Lib = ex library, Engs = steel plate engravings, Half tone = early method of photo reproduction, 1904/1914 - first printing date/printing date of item for sale), First - first edition ........................................................... Books, continued ........................................................... 62. "Modern Timber Engineering" 1942/1949 Southern Pine Association. W. Fleming Scofield and W. H. O'Brien. 6x9.25. 147 pgs. VG clean copy all around. Heavily illustrated with charts and diagrams. All the numbers you need to engineer some timber. Price: $15.00 63. "The Fabrication of USS Stainless Steels" 1939. United States Steel. 6x9. 91 pgs. Semihard cvr. All around vg condition. Includes Lab and property data at end. Price: $18.00 64. "Brassfounders' Alloys; A practical handbook containing many useful tables, notes and data for the guidance of manufacturers and tradesmen; together will several illustrations and descriptions of approved modern methods and appliances for melting and mixing the alloys. " 1909. John F. Buchanan, brass founder. US imprint of 1901 British edition. Green clth cvr with bright gilt lettering. Minor usage wear to cvr, interior exc. Includes descriptions of furnace design. Price: $38.00 65. "Model Making, including practice, design, and construction of models. A practical treatise for the amateur and professional mechanic, giving instructions on the various processes and operations involved in model making and the actual construction of numerous models, including steam engines, speed boats, guns, locomotives, cranes, etc. Lathe work, pattern work, electroplating, soft and hard soldering, grinding, drilling, etc are also included. Edited by Raymond Francis Yates, editor of 'Everyday Engineering Magazine'. Second revised and enlarged edition, reproductions of actual working models." 1919/1929. 5.5x8.75, 428 pgs plus catalog of Henley Pub titles. Bright red clth cvr with gilt illus of a model steam engine. Average usage wear to cvr includes small hole in lower rear spine. Front hinge loose but intact. Otherwise interior exc. Starts with illustrations and description of a model makers home workshop. What would we give for some of the foot and motor powered machinery pictured there? Price: $48.00 66. "The Modern House-Carpenter's Companion and Builder's Guide; Being a hand book for workmen and a manual of reference for contrators and builders; Rules for getting the lengths and finding the bevels for rafters for pitch, hip, and valley roofs, the construction of french and mansard roofs, several forms of trusses, stairs, splayes and circular work, etc. Table of braces, sizes and weights of window sash, and frames for the same; Table of board, plank and scantling measure, etc. Also information for the convenience of builders and contractors in making estimates; explanations of the uses of the various markings on rules and squares; the slide rule, and how to use it' strength of materials; and rules for estimating the sizes of beams, columns, etc; and several plans for houses. Making the most comprehensive work for the price yet published.Forty five full plates. " 1883. W. A. Sylvester, Boston, MA. 5x7.75. 210 pgs. Dark green clth cvr, gilt lettering. Average usage wear to cvr. Front and rear hinges loose but intact. (I can apply hinge tape if you would prefer) Pages lightly yellowed but clear without foxing. Particularly nice section on the use of the carpenters slide rule. Price: $51.00 67. "Introduction to the Theory and Practice of Boot and Shoe Manufacure: Longman's Technical Handcraft Series." 1916. Frank Plucknett "Assistant master, cordwainer's technical college, London". 5.5x8.75. 322 pgs. Semisoft red clth cvr, black lettering. Minor usage wear and a few small damp stains. Interior exc. Hvly illustrated. Comprehensive introduction to the trade. $38.00 68. "Patented Transitional and Metallic Planes In America 1827-1927". Roger K. Smith. 1981. First. 9x11. 336 pgs. Dj chipped at upper edge. Else exc throughout. Do I have to say anything about this title? Price: $75.00 69. "Leather Manufacture, A Practical Handbook of Tanning, Currying, and Chrome Leather Dressing" by Alexander Watt. 1897/1906. HB. 5x8. 484 pgs. US edition of the British text. Red cloth cvr, gilt lettering. Some shelf wear to cover. Minor damp staining beginning and end of book upper page edges, cvr loose but attached, else good. Illus of both handwork in leather mfg and machine work. I read this one...really interesting stuff. Price: $32.00 70. "Saddlery and Harness Making... with numerous engravings and diagrams". Edited by Paul Hasluck. 1962 reprint of 1904 edition. 4x7. 160 pgs. Dj in mylar wrap. Excellent condtion throughout. Great details on the making of tack and such. A really nice read in a different trade then wood or metal working. Price: $28.00 71 "The Wonderland Of Work". By C.L. Mateaux. Cassell & Co publishers. I found a reference that says Mateaux is the pen name for JOSHUA ROSE, he of machinist fame. I have yet to substantiate this through secondary sources, but the connection could make sense. C.1880. One of my favorite titles. Some representative chapters: Coal, Lighting, Matches, Iron and Steel, Toymakers, Knives and Forks, Tool, chain and nail making, Timber, Furniture, Stick whip and umbrella makers, Clocks and watches, More toys, Glass, China, Leather, Gloves. A fascinating read. 7.75x10.5. 312 pgs. Illus with eng. VG brick red cvr with very decorative gilt and black pictures and lettering. Spine lightly creased top and bottom. Interior very good. Price:$58.00 72. "A guide to American Trade Catalogs, 1744-1900". Lawrence Romaine. Dover 1990 reprint of 1960 original. SC. 6x9.25. 422 pgs. Exc throughout. The classic bibliography for trade catalogs. Romaine surveyed libraries, historical societies and colleges throughout the US. This compilation lists trade catalogs in over 60 categories. Price: $16.00 ..................................................... Ephemera ..................................................... 73. "The Chronicle of The Early American Industries Association" a. 12/77 wooden compass plane, sailmaking, Cartwright tool chest. b. 3/77 Hx of the Leonard Bailey Tool Co., ice harvesting tools, shaving horse, etc.. All very good condtion. Price per issue: $6.00 74. "Stanley Rafter and Framing Squares" 1954 pocket instruction booklet. 3.25x6.25. 45pgs. SB. Excellent condition. Price: $13.00 75. "The Fairbanks Co.: Power Transmission Appliances; Elevating and Conveying Macninery; Catalog No. 482". 1909. 5.5x7.25. 327 pgs. Cvr light usage wear. Marbled edges. Interior vg. Includes section on scales. Price: $18.00 76. "Net Price List Applying to Our 1898 Catalogue". The Reliable Electric MFG. Co., 86 Foster Street, Worcester, Mass. Single sheet 5.25x11.5 folded once. Price list of early telephone equipment. Folded twice. A few minor creases and surface soil. Not illustrated. Price: $3.00 78, "Measuring Tools, Calipers, Dividers, Surface Gages, Micrometer Measuring Instruments. Third Edition. Machinery's Reference Book No. 21" pub by Machinery 1910. Excerpts from the trade magazine Machinery. SB. 6x9. 48 pgs. Cvr soiled and partially loose. Interior very good. Illus with halftone and steel plate. Price: $13.00 79. "Atlas Woodworking Power Tools" 1954. 8.5x11. 31 pgs. SB.Tools for the home or small pro shop. Excellent condition. Price: $15.00. 80."Van Keuren Co. Precision Measuring Tools Catalog and Handbook No. 36, includes 1958 price list". 1955. 6x9. HB. 258 pgs. Minor cvr dirt and small hole in bottom of cvr extending 60 pages. Looks like a needle hole. Full color and B&W illus of precision measuring tools. Includes instructions and charts for use of precision measuring devices. Price: $22.00 81. "Starrett Catalog No. 26A... for New Tools see Pages 282-333". 1953. SB. 5x7. 334 pgs. Cvr shows minor wear at spine and edges. Rear cvr and pages slightly damp wrinkled. Otherwise VG. Shocking red and yellow art deco cover. Contains red discontinued stamps thoughout. Price: $28.00 82. "Pettingell-Andrews Company; Condensed Catalog No. 22 Electrical Merchandise". Boston, MA 1922. 4.5x8.5. 720 pgs. Minor usage wear to cvr. Interior vg. Everything in electricity from linemen's tools, light and heavy electrical contractors supplies, lighting, stoves, irons, Klein Tools, you name it. Price: $22.00 83. "File Filosophy, twentieth edition, being a brief account of the history, manufacture, variety and uses of files in general.". 1956. Nicholson File Company. 6x9. 50 pgs. SC. Exc condition throughout. Price: $6.00 84. "Brown & Sharpe New Tools supplement to catalogs no. 32 and 140". 4.5x6.75. SB. 37 pgs. 1937. New tools and items withdrawn. VG condition. Price: $8.00 85. "Brown & Sharpe Small Tools Catalog No. 32". 1935. 4.5x6.5. 448 pgs. SB. VG condition throughout with exception of small spine tear that doesn't extend through to interior. Price:$20.00 86. "Brown & Sharpe Small Tools Catalog No. 33". 1938. 4.5x6.5. 480 pgs. SB. Heavy use wear but all intact. Price:$16.00 87. "Brown & Sharpe Small Tools Cat6alog No. 34". 1941. 4.5x6.5. 512pgs.SB Cvr vg with minimal wear, interior excellent. Price: $22.00 88. "Brown & Sharpe Small Tools Catalog No. 34". 1941. 4.5x6.5. 512pgs.SB G condition,cvr slightly worn, interior vg. Price: $20.00 89. "Starrett Catalog No. 26". SB., 288 pgs. Hvy cvr soil, cvr split top and bottom of spine. Interior has a few light stains and wrinkled back. Price: $14.00. 90. "Pratt & Whitney Small Tools No.15." 1938. HB. 5x7.5. 457 pgs. Very nice blue and silver cloth cover. The complete line of P&W taps.dies, cutters, reamers, etc. Very minor shelf wear, interior VG with some slight yellowing around edges. Price:.$22.00 91. "O. S. Rixford's Scythes and Axes, East Highgate, Vermont" C. 1880. SB. ORIGINAL trade catalog. 4"x6.5". 68 pgs. Axes, Sythes, Snathes and Patent Axe boxes. Green cover, cream interior. Full page steel plate illustrations of each item with text descriptions on facing page. Minor thin water stain on edge and 1/2" wide by 4" long rust or dirt stain on top of back cover (Neither stain affects the look of the catalog). Otherwise excellent condition throughout. Now. this has been on the list for a while. Don't you understand that this is the real thing? Price: $58.00 92. "Disston Saw, Tool and File Manual...How to choose and use tools for longer tool life... Fight Waste". January 1952. Includes the mailing envelope that reads "A Disston Gift for you. With a red print bow and cartoons of Grandpa, Dad and Sonny. All very good condition with exception of envelope flap stuck to corner of manual leaving a little piece of paper. Price: $20.00 93. "Lufkin Precision Tools Catalog No. 7". Also stamped CE McCormick, Phila PA. SB. C 1940's. 5.25x8. 128 pgs. This catalog has one star to either side of the Catalog No. 7 label. Saginaw MI plant on frontispiece. Minor normal cvr wear. Interior vg. Price: $22.00 94. "Lufkin Precision Tools Catalog No. 7". C 1940's. 5.25x8. 144 pgs. This catalog has no star to either side of the Catalog No. 7 label. Saginaw MI plant on frontispiece. VG condition throughout. Price: $24.00 95. "Disston Handbook on Saws" 1907. Cardboard cvrs. 5.75x9.25. 207 pgs. Tan Cvr and some interior pages stained with what looks like carbon from a stove. A little dog eared and usual shelf wear. The whole shebang about Disston lumbering equipment..If you've never seen this one, check out the half tones of the factory workers. Price: $38.00 96. "Popular Mechanics Shop Notes for 1917, Vol XIII".Paperback PM compendium of their Shop Notes forum. 6.5x9.5. 215 pgs, VG condition throughout. Typical yellowing of newsprint pages. Price:$ 12.00 97. "Fifield Tool Company Engine Lathes from 17 to 72 Inches, Lowell, Mass, USA." C 1885 trade catalog. 11.5x7.5. 32 pgs. SB cvr. Light surface soil, creased corners, othewise vg condition throughout. Eng of company plant on cover. Halftone prints of 17 through 64 inch lathes plus accessories. Price: $32.00 98. " Wm H. Gallison Engineers' Specialities. 36 Oliver St. Boston, MA". 1891. 3.5x6.5. 95 pgs. Cvr water stained and missing a few small pieces here and there. Inerior pages damp stained at edges and wrinkled. Steam engineer trade catalog that seems to have seen use in a damp environment (steam?). Planimiters. wrenches, fixtures, packing, valves, oil cans, etc. What the discerning steam engineer needed to do business. Price: $15.00 99. "Lufkin Precision Tools Catalog No. 8." C.1950? 5.5x7.5. 160 pgs. SC. Average usage wear to cvr, minor scuffs. Interior vg. Price: $18.00 100. "Lufkin Precision Tools Catalog No. 7". No stars on this cover. Michigan and Canadian plants shown. Includes flyer announcing the "New Lufkin Vernier Height Gage Series no. 800" and another for the "Universal Dial Test Indicator No. 399A" . 5.5x7.5. 144 pgs... pages labeled T1, T2, etc. Exc condition throughout. Price: $18.00 101. "Lufkin Precision Tools Catalog No. 7". No stars on this cover. Michigan plant only shown. 5.5x7.5. 128 pgs... Moderate usage wear. Price: $12.00 102. "Sawology; being a brief account of the history, manufacture, variety and uses of saws for the cutting of ferrous and non-ferrous metals, hard plastics and rubber, wood and other dense materials... a useful handbook and guide for the shop superintendent, production foreman, mechanic or home craftsman." 1959. The Nicholson File Company. 5.25x8.5. 34 pgs. SC. Exc condition. All about hacksaw blades and metal cutting bandsaw blades. A nice little booklet that is surprisingly hard to find. Price: $12.00 103. "How to get the most out of your farm workshop." 1940's. Delta Manufacturing Co. SC. 6.9. 40 pgs. Some minor damp sticking of pages, otherwise good. Need to make a cattle stanchion? Price: $5.00 104. "Simonds Saws, Knives, Files, Steel. 1923. Pacific Coast Edition," 6x9. 168 pgs. Red clth cvr with usage wear, cvr lettering worn. Interior good. The lumber trade edition for the west coast. Price:$33.00 105. "Johns-Manville Railroad Supplies Catalog No. 252.. Asbestos, Magnesia and Electrical Railroad Supplies". 1911. 6x9. 342 pgs. Great illust on cvr of Train in black. Average usage wear to cvr. Label on spine. Interior exc. A hazardoud materials lovers dream catalog. Even inlcudes an oak toilet seat cover (what that has to do with asbestos, I don't know.) Packing, insulation, railroad car and depot construction materials, etc.. Profusely illustrated with halftones and mechanical cutaway drawings of railroad cars. Price: $68.00 ................................................................... Some reprints had been mailed to the association member. Blank white labels have been placed over the orginal white mailing label in order to preserve their privacy. .......................................... 106."The Stanley Rule and Level Company" 1909 catalog No.102. Roger K. Smith 1977 reprint. SB. 8.75x6. 127 pgs. Note that this is in VG condition except that the first four pages are loose from the binding (this is what happens when glue dries out!). Price: $8.00 107. "Stanley 55 Plane and How to Use It" MWTCA 1981 reprint of the 1921 original. 5x8. SB. 22 pgs. Excellent condition. Price: $$10.00 108. "Stanley No. 171 Door Trim Plane" instructions. unkown reprint date. Original C. 1900. photocopy, 3 fold opens to 6x11. Excellent condition. Price: $3.00 109. "Steel Carpenter's Squares, Eagle Square Manufacturing Co.,South Shaftsbury, Vt." Undated. MWTC-A reprint July, 1991. 31 pgs, 4" x 7.74". Stanley bought the controlling interest in the Eagle Square Co in 1916, thereby sequering the carpenters square market. This catalog predates the Stanley involvement. Excellent condition. I had three of these and this is the last one... better hurry! Price: $8.00 110. "Stanley Tools catalog No. 110". Roger K. Smith 1984 reprint of 1911 catalog. SB. 9x11.25. 61 pgs. Pressure crease in front cvr, otherwise very good condition. Price: $16.00 111. "Zenith Tools and Cutlery: Marshall-Wells Hdwre. Co." MWTCA 1987 reprint of the C 1910 full line catalog. SC. 6x8.5. 138 pgs. Excellent condition througout. Pricd: $12.00 112. "Belcher Brothers & Sons Price List of Boxwood & Ivory Rules... Measuring Tapes, Thermometers, Sandpaper, Steel Squares, Braces and Bits, Gauges, Spokeshaves, Try-Squares, Bemis' Cast Steel Goods, &c. 1860". Ken Roberts 1982 reprint of 1860 original. SC. 5.5x8.5 44 pgs includes author's commentary. Excellent condition. Price: $10.00 113. "Millers Falls Company Hardware Manufacturers, 1887." Ken Roberts 1981 reprint of 1887 catalog. SC 5.5x8.5. 72 pages includes author's commentary and additional advertising. Finger smudges on cvr, otherwise vg condition throughout. Price: $13.00 114. "Goodell-Pratt Company Tools Number 7". Roger K. Smith 1977 reprint of the 1905 catalog. 4.25x6.5. 176 pgs. Vg condition throughout. Price: $11.00 115. "Mechanics Hand Tools: PEXTO: The Peck Stow & Wilcox Company Catalog No. 26T for Carpenters, Machinists, Electricians, Tinsmiths, Etc." Roger K. Smith 1981 reprint of 1927 original. SC. 5x7. 95 pgs. VG condition throughout. Price: $11.00 116. "Collins & Co. Axes, Hatchets, Adzes, Etc. Etc." ETC. 1974 reprint of the 1921 catalog. 7.5x10.25. 29 pgs. SC. VG condition throughout. Price: $8.00 117. "E. C. Stearns & Co, Syracuse, NY Hardware" Roger K. Smith 1977 reprint of the 1924 tools and hardware catalog. 6x9. 88 pgs. SC Vg condition throughout. Price: $12.00 118. "The Russell Jennings Mfg. Co. Price List; patent augers and extention lip auger bits. Deep River, Conn., USA". Ken Robderts. 1981 reprint of the c. 1899 original. 11x7. 32 pgs includes supplementary material. SC. Vg condition. Price: $15.00 119. "W.G. Hagar Iron Co., Illustrated Catalog No. 5. Formerly Western Iron & Supply Co. Direct Mill representatives and jobbers... and supplies for Steam Fitters, Machinists and Engineers, Boilermakers and Blacksmiths, Mines, Mills and Railroads. St. Louis. 1908". 4.25x5.75. 532 pgs. Green cloth cvr, usage worn but clean. Interior vg. A ton of stuff in a small package. Along with the stock supplies of the period are tools from most of the major manufacturers. Wrenches, hammers, precision tools, stationary iron working machinery, blacksmithing equipment, heavy steam fitters equipment, etc. Includes two track drills, if you have some tracks to drill. The next time you find an Ingalls Flue Scraper, you'll know what to call it. Price: $ 36.00 120. "Berlin Woodworking Machinery; Sectional catalog of wood-working machinery for saw mills, planing mills, sash and door plants, box factories, railroad shops, furniture plants, farm implements, general shops, etc." 1915. The Berlin Machine Works, Beloit, Wis. 12.5x9.5. 128 pgs. Stiff paper metal tab cvr. Cvr frayed and torn at edges. First four pages have 1 inch tear. Lightly soiled cvr edges. Otherwise interior good. Everything from heavy timber machinery through table saws. Each pg has a full pge halftone of the machine with facing page description. Price:$ 30.00 Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ++++ End of thread 18820 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18821 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42622 (thread 18821) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-04 04:27:00 Subject: FS: Books and Books part 1 The May1998 Toolemera Press For Sale list groberts@s... part 1: This listing is posted first to the Oldtools list and to my private email list. Sometime thereafter it is posted to the Usenet. If you would like to be placed on the private email list, please let me know.. NOTE: I am now taking WANTS and SEARCH requests. If there is a particular title that you are looking for, please contact me for the particulars. Books and ephemera on tools and trades.... Prices (US) include postage (heavy books shipped Priority Mail). International and Canadian customers please contact me to determine shipping deferential. Please remember that I ship AFTER receipt of payment, not upon receiving your email order. It usually takes two to three weeks after the list is posted for all items to be shipped. If you have any questions concerning an item, please contact me ASAP as a firm order will take precedence over questions. Once you have received confirmation of your order, please send your check or money order (made out to Gary Roberts NOT to the Toolemera Press) to: Gary Roberts, 1077 South Street, Roslindale, MA 02131-2321 ........................................................... Abbreviations: (HB = hardback, SB = softback, DJ = dustjacket, Illus = illustrated, pgs = total pages, CVR = cover, Ex Lib = ex library, Half tone = early method of photo reproduction, 1904/1914 - first printing date/printing date of item for sale), First - first edition ........................................................... Books ........................................................... 1. "The New Encylcopedia Of Machine Shop Practice; A Guide to the Principles and Practices of Machine Shop Procedure". Edited by George Barnwell. 1941. 5.75x8.5. 568 pgs. Minor shelf wear to cvr. Interior exc. A comprehensive introduction to machine shop work for the voctech school crowd. Price: $25.00 2. "Common Sense Stairbuilding and Handrailing". 1903. Fred Hodgson. 5.5x7.75. 196 pgs plus 56 pgs of house plans. Green cloth cvr with black illustration. Cvr and interior vg. with typical minor shelf wear at spine edges. Overall one of the better copies of this title. Price: $32.00 3. "Up to Date Air Brake Catechism; a complete study of the air brake equipment, including the latest devices and inventions used. All troubles and peculiarities of the air brake, and a practical way to find and remedy them are explained. Containing nearly 1,000 questions with their answers, intended as examination questions for engineers and firemen and for all other practical railroad men." 1898/1902. Fifteenth edition. Robert H. Blackall, air brake instructor and inspector with Westinghouse Air Brake Co.. 5.25x7.5. 254 pgs. Heavily illustrated, includes pull out illustrations. Red cloth cvr with clean gilt lettering. Remains of label on spine. Minor usage wear to cvr, interior vg. Price: $32.00 4. "Modern Machine Shop Practice, Supplement... Containing all the revisions and additions to be found in the second edition, including nearly 500 new illustrations". By Joshua Rose, M. E. 1887/1892. 10.25x13.5. 578 pgs. Brick colored cloth cvr. Minor shelf wear to cvr and spines. Interior excellent. The very hard to find supplement to Rose's major two volume work. Heavily illus. Includes a section on electricity, noting that with the advent of electricity replacing steam power, it was felt it would be valuable to the machinist to include information about state of the art of electrical power generation as it related to machine work. (Note...if you prefer UPS shipping with insurance on this item, contact me regarding shipping costs) Price: $98.00 5. "The Mechanics' Handbook... a convenient reference book for all persons interested in mechanical engineering, steam engineering, electrical engineering, railroad engineering, hydraulic engineering, bridge engineering, etc." By International Correspondence Schools. 1893/1904. 3.5x5.5. 330 pgs. Green clth cvr.vg with minor soil. Interior excellent. Tables, formulas, geometry, surveying, railroad track surveying, tunneling, etc. Small enough to carry in your pocket... just in case you have a railroad curve to layout. Price: $15.00 6. "American Machinist Handbook and Dictionary of Shop Terms... a reference book of machine shop and drawing room data, methods and definitions". By Fred H. Colvin and Frank A. Stanley. 1908/1912. 511 pgs. Semisoft black leather cvr, gilt page edges. Cvr shows a shelf wear and had been separated and repaired with linen tape. Interior vg. Price: $18.00 7. "Pattern Making". By Frederick Turner and Daniel Town, instructors at the Mechanic Arts High School, Boston. 1914. First Edition, first thousand printed. 5x7. 114 pgs. Green clth cvr in vg condition. Interior excellent. Nice trade school intro. Line drawings illus, incl Stanley core box, circular, shoot board planes and Emmert vise. Check out the Canadian dovetail... a box joint by just another name. Price: $23.00 8. "The Modern Machinist, A Practical Treatise on Modern Machine Shop Methods....describing in a comprehensive manner, the most approved methods, processes, and appliances employed in present practice for cutting, shaping, fitting, erecting and finishing metal work, on the vise, floor, lathe, planing, shaping, slotting, milling, drilling, grinding and other machines". By John Usher. 1896. 5.25x8. 322 pgs. With titles such as this one, who needs to describe the contents? If you need to erect a traction engine, you need this book. Clth cvr minor use wear, heavily surface soiled. Should be cleaned and waxed. Interior vg. Price: $36.00 9. "The Slide Valve Practically Explained, embracing simple and practical demonstrations of the operations of each element in a slide valve movement, and illustrating the effects of variations in their proportionsm, by examples carefully selected from the most recent and successful practice". By Joshua Rose. 1880. First. Illus with 35 eng. 5x7.25. 100 pgs with 22 pg catalog of Baird pub titles. Pencil notes front and back of owner's preferred titles. Obviously, directions for operation of the slide valve on steam engines, locomotives and marine engines. Rose certainly got around. Green clth cvr with some staining and use wear. Interior vg. Price: $18.00 10. "Maxims And Instructions for the Boiler Room, Useful to Engineers, Firemen & Mechanics, relating to steam generators, pumps, appliances, steam heating, practical plumbing, etc. Comprising instructions and suggestions on the construction, setting, control and management of various forms of steam boilers; on the theory and practical operation of the steam pump; steam heatiing; practical plumbing; also rules for the safety valve, strength of boilers, capacitiy of pumps, etc" By N. Hawkins. Theo. Audel, Publishers. 1897/1898/1903. 5.5x8.5 331 pgs. Navy clth cvr, gilt lettering and gilt edge pages. Cvr vg with minor use wear. Interior excellent. Everything you need to know to keep your boiler running. Unlike many steam texts, this one has not been harmed by damp. Price: $24.00 11. "Laws Governing the Steamboat Inspection Service: Revised statutes of the United States as modified by the Act of Congress approved March 4, 1913, establishing the Department Of Commerce and by other acts of Congress: Edition, November 4, 1915". USGPO, 1916. 6x9. 87 pgs. Paperbound. Pgs yellowed, usage wears to edges, minor staining. You will need this document in order to operate that steamboat in your backyard. Price: $14.00 12. "The Bench Saw, Jointer and Shaper, Their Use and Application". 1934. Walker Turner. Includes Instruction sheet with parts list for Craftsman Model 472 Bench Saw (made by WT). SB. 6x9. 71 pgs. Lightly creased cvr edge. Else vg throughout. Just what you need if you have one of the WT benchtop machines. Price: $$18.00 13. . "Modern Carpentry, A Practical Manual: a new and complete guide containing hundreds of methods for performing work in carpentry, joining and general woodwork, written in a simple every day style that does not bewilder the workingman, illustrated with hundreds of diagrams which are especially made so that anyone can follow them without difficulty". Fred Hodgson, Architect. 1903. First of this edition. 193 pgs plus 50 pgs of house plans. Moderate usage wear to cvr. Interior g with typical yellowing. If you don't have this book then you can't call yourself a carpenter. Price: $24.00 12. "Farm Shop Practice". 1939. Mack Jones. 6x9. 314 pgs. Spine missing 1.5 inch triangle at top, otherwise average usage wear. Interior vg. Everything the farm hand or ag student needed to know about woodworking, tool sharpening, cold metal work, blacksmithing, harness/belt and rope work. Price: $16.00 13. "Gages and their use in inspection". 1942. Fred Colvin. 5x7.5. 157 pgs. All around clean copy. Nice small introductory book about the use of gages in industrial production. Price: $15.00 14, "Manual Arts: Educational and Vocational: with 184 illustrations" S. C. Roberts (no relation!). 1924. 5.5x8. 277 pgs. Light blue cvr with some white water staining and surface soil (that's what I hate about blue cvrs... the dye never held). Interior exc. Nice manual arts text with many dimensioned plans for arts & crafts style furniture for the voc tech crowd (now you know where those un-named pieces of arts & crafts furniture came from). Price: $15.00 15. "The Carpenters Steel Square and It's Uses, being a description of the square, and it's uses in obtaining the lengths and bevels of all kinds of rafters, hips, groins, braces, brackets, purlins, collar-beams and jack rafters. Also, its application in obtaining the bevels and cuts for hoppers, spring moldings, octagons, stairs, diminished stiles, etc, etc. Illustrated by over seventy wood-cuts". Fred Hodgson. 1883. Second Edition. 5x7.5. 95 pgs. Gilt embossed cvr with moderate usage wear. Interior yellowed, a few small spots, front hinge slightly separated. else vg. Price: $20.00. 16. "Drilling and Surface Practice. Drilling, Reaming, Tapping, Planning, Shaping, Slotting, Milling and Broaching.". By Fred Colvin and Frank Stanley. 1936. First. 6.25x9.25. 431 pgs. Excellent condition throughout. Price: $25.00 17. "Three Centuries of Harpsichord Making". Frank Hubbard, with a forward by Ralph Kirkpatrick. Harvard University Press. 1967. 6.5x10. 373 pgs plus approx 40 additional plates depicting engravings of actual instruments and examples from period publications such as Roubo. Chapters include: Italy, Flanders, France, England, Germany, The Workshop, Contemporary Descriptions of Instruments, Contemporary Descriptions of Technical Processes, Inventories of the Workshops of French Harpsichord Makers and of Instruments in the Hands of French Muscians, Inventions Applied to the Harpsichord, The Pedal, The Gut Stringed Harpsichord, The Bach Disposition, The Claviorganum, the Manuscript of Pierre Trichet. Of special note is the Workshop section containing detailed descriptions from harpsichord makers of the time, taken from correspondence and estate records. Includes lists of tools and supplies. DJ slightly soiled at spine, in mylar cvr. otherwise exc all around. Price: $48.00 18. "The Tool Steel Trouble-Shooter; a practical handbook to help you identify and correct the most frequent causes of tool and die failures." 1952. Bethlehem Steel. 6x9. 125 pgs. DJ worn at edges. Cvr lightly soiled. Interior vg. Profusely illustrated with photos and captions... why steel fails. Price: $16.00 19. "A Practical Workshop Companion for Tin, Sheet Iron and Copper Plate Workers, containing rules for describing various kins of patterns used by the sheet iron, and copper plate workers, practical geometry, mensuration of surfaces and solides, tables of the weights of metals, lead pipes, etc, tables of areas and circumfernces of circles, japans, varnishes, lackers, cements, compositions etc. etc. etc." By Leroy J. Blinn, master mechanic. 1864/1888. 5x8. 184 pgs with 33 pg catalog of Baird titles. Cvr moderate use wear, spine worn at ends. Interior very good. A hard to find title in the Baird series of industrial titles. If you are into geometry, this is the book for you. Price: $38.00 20. "The Carpenters' and Builders' Guide, being a Hand-Book For Workmen, also a Manual Of Reference For Contractors, Builders, Etc" by Peter W. Plummer. Boyt, Fogg & Donham , Portland Maine, Pub. 1869/1885. HB. 5x8. 72 pgs plus 4 plates of geometry. Slightly soiled and use worn paper over cardboard cvr. Minimal foxing. Interior very good. A classic and hard to find handbook for the mid 19th C carpenter and joiner. Price: $42.00 21. "Planers and Planer Practice." 1927. International Correspondence School staff.5x7.5. 59 pgs. One of the ICS series on machine shop practice. Nice introduction to the use of surface planers. Heavily illustrated with clear engravings. Exc condition. Price: $16.00 22. "Mechanical Drawing Self Taught: Comprising Instructions in the Selection and Preparation of Drawing Instruments, Elementary Instruction in Practical Mechanical Drawing, Together With Examples In Simple Geometry and Elementary Mechanism, Including Screw Threads, Gear Wheels, Mechanical Motions, Engines and Boilers" By JOSHUA ROSE. 1883/1889/1906. HC Baird publisher. 6x9.5. 303 pgs. HB. Owners plate pasted in front leaf. Cvr moderate use wear.Interior vg. The section on the preparation and use of drafting equipment is particularly nice. How to sharpen inking pens and pencils, how to hold them, etc. A very hard to find volume from Baird publishers. Price: $38.00 23."The Artist's Guide and Mechanics Own Book Embracing The Portion of Chemistry Applicable to the Mechanic Arts, with Abstracts of Electricity, Galvinism, Magnetism, Pnuematics, Optics, Astronomy and Mechanical Philosophy also Mechanical Exercises in Iron, Steel, Lead, Zinc, Copper and Tin Soldering and a Variety of Useful Receipts extending to Every Profession and Occupation Of Life, Particularly Dyeing, Silk, Woollen, Cotton and Leather" by James Pilkington, Boston. 1847. HB. 5x7.75. 490 pgs. Embossed Cvr worn with surface spotting and at spine. Interior minor foxing front and rear cvr sheets. Index signature loose. Signed Emerson Goddards, Petersham, Mass. Else good. Price: $23.00 24. . "Punches and Dies, Layout, Construction and Use" by Frank Stanley. 1919/1943. 6x9. 476 pgs. Some cvr soil that could be cleaned, otherwise VG condition throughout. Price: $18.00 25. "Platt Brothers and Company; Small Business in American Manufacturing" By Matthew W. Roth. 1994. University Press of New England, publisher. 6x9.25. 256 pgs. DJ mylar protected. Near new condition throughout. Examines the important role small family owned businesses played in the industrialization of the US. Platt Bros produced non-ferous buttons for private use and for the US Military. I have one copy of my own. Price: $15.00 26. "Tool Steel Simplified; a handbook of modern practice for the man who makes tools" 1937. Frank Palmer, VP, the Carpenter Steel Company. 6x9. 316 pgs. Owner stamped "Star Watch Case Company". Very clean copy, blue clth cvr wth gilt lettering. Includes two full color pages on heat treating. Price: $24.00 27. "Practical Uses of the Steel Square, Complete Modern Treatise, Vol 1: being an exhaustive collection of steel square problems and solutions, old and new. with many original and useful additions, forming a complete encyclopedia of steel square knowledge, together with a brief history of the square and description of tables, keys and other aids and attachments." Vol 1 only. Fred Hodgson. 1903/1904. 5.5x7.75. 242 pgs plus apprix 30 pgs of house plans. Includes brief references to such patented square such as Tops. Starretts Combination, Cheneys. etc. Moderate usage wear to cvr. interior vg. Price: $25.00 28. "American Machinist Gear Book: Simplified tables and formulas for designing, and practical points in cutting all commercial types of gears". Charles Logue, revised by Reginald Trautschold. The Library of Machine Shop Practice. 1918/1922. 6x9.25. 353 pgs.Light usage wear to cvr. Interior vg. Price: $24.00 29. "The Charleston Blacksmith: The Work of Philip Simmons" by John Vlach. 1981 University of Georgia Press. 8x9. 172 pgs. SC on glossy stock. Vg condition thoughout. "...a guidebook to the beautiful ironwork of Charleston created by the historic city's best known blacksmith..." Interview, photos and commentary. Price: $16.00 30. "The Mine and Smelter Supply Company; Assayers and Chemists Supplies, Scientific Instruments. Catalog No. 54. Includes separate Bausch & Lomb Micropscope Supplement." Utah, Colorado, Texas, NY. 1918. 6x9.25. 833 pgs catalog. 20 pgs microscope supplement. Average usage wear to cvr. Interior vg. Supplement creased at outer edges. If you were an early 20thC Assayer, this catalog had what you needed. From analytical balances to glass lab equipment to miners lamps to heavy duty rock grinders. Microscope supplement includes equipment for photomicrography of laboratory specimens. Price: $72.00 31. "The Practical House, Wagon and Automobile Painter: Including Sign Painting and Valuable Hints and Receipes" by W. P. White. 1919. HB. 5x7.5. 157 pgs. Average shelf wear. Interior excellent. A fascinating review of the painter's trade. Price:$18.00 32. "Country Cabinetwork and Simple City Furniture, Winterthur Conference Report 1969". Edited by John Morse. SB. 6x9. 309 pgs. All the big names.. Benno Forman, Charles Hummel, Jonathan Fairbanks, etc. Moderately yellowed cover around edges. else VG. Price: $11.00 33. "The Patent Law: by systematic condensation this little book undertakes to state the whole body of the patent law, having special regard to correctness, originality, clearness and high authority of citations". William Simonds, ex-commissioner of Patents. Cvr label: Simonds & Frothingham, Counselors at Law, Hartford Trust Co Building, Hartford, Ct. 1893. 4x5.5. 96 pgs. Cardboard cvr, quarter cloth bound. Usage wear and a few small worn spots to cvr. Hinges loose but intact. Could use application of hinge tape. Patent law from the horse's mouth. Price: $18.00 34. "Modern Carpentry, A Practical Manual" by Fred Hodgson. 1917 of 1902 edition. HB. 5x7.5. 275 pgs of text plus 60 odd pgs of house plans. I like the part on casemaking and door design. Shelf wear and soil on cvr. Interior very good. Price: $16.00 35. . "Maxims and Instructions for the Boiler Room: useful to engineers, firemen & mechanics relating to steam generators, pumps, appliances, steam heating, practical plumbing, etc.". N. Hawkins. Theo. Audel &Co Pub. 1890. 6x8.75. 331 pgs. Cvr lightly soiled... could use a cleaning and waxing. Hinges taped, otherwise interior vg. "This work is fraternally inscribed to W. R. Hawkins, R. F. Hawkins and F. P. Hawkins" printed on inside leaf. Everything to late 19th C mechanician needed to know about boilers. Price: $21.00 36. "Wood Patternmaking" by Herbert McCaslin. 1923. First. 5x7.5. 296 pgs. The classic trade school text of it's time. Blue cloth cvr excellent. Interior excellent. Price:$26.00 37. "Varnish Making" 1940. Papers from the 1939 Second Conference of the Oil and Colour Chemists Association, Harrogate. 5.5x8.75. 231 pgs. Average usage wear to cvr.Interior vg. Light bed time reading. Price: $22.00 38. "Civil Engineering, Strength of Materials, Hydraulics, WATERWHEELS". by the editorial staff, International Textbook Co. 1906/1925. HB. 5.75x9. Approx 400 pgs. 1/2 inch tear lower spine, otherwise very good condition throughout. The section on waterwheels is fascinating... overshot, undershot, wood, metal, turbine. Really, you don't see material about waterwheels. Price:$28.00 39. "Geodesy; including astronomical observations, gravity measurements and method of least squares." 1920. George Hosmer. 6x9. 368 pgs. Don't know what to do with that heliotrope lying around in the garage? This book will tell you. Moderate cvr wear, Interior vg with typical yellowing of pages. Price: $22.00 40. "The Practice of Lubrication: an engineering treatise on the origin, nature and testing of lubricants, their selection, application and use." T. C. Thompsen. 1920. 6x9. 607 pgs. Steam engines, textile machinery, railroad machinery. mine cars, gasoline, etc. etc. Cvr vg with minor shelf wear. Interior exc. Price: $19.00 41. "Light and Heavy Timber Framing Made Easy" 1909. Fred Hodgson. 5.75x8.25. 395 pgs. Navy cvr with gilt lettering, black and white embossed illustration of half framed structure. Some minor damp staining to cvr. Interior vg. The hardest of all Hodgson titles to find. Published for a very short period only. Hodgson's typical thorough coverage of the subject with numerous illustrations. Price: $58.00 42. "Practical Treatise on the Steam Engine Indicator". AKA Hawkins Indicator Catechism. 1898/1903. by N. Hawkins. Theo. Audel pub. HB. 5.25x8. 173 pgs. Navy clth cvr with gilt lettering and gilt page edging. VG condition throughout. Obviously, if you have a steam engine, you need this book. Price: $22.00 43. "The Electric Furnace: It's Evolution, Theory and Practice" by Alfred Stansfield. 1908. Canadian copyright. HB. 6x9.25. 211 pgs. Pencil notes last page. Cvr moderate shelf wear. A few stains. Interior VG. You will need this if you are planning on setting up a furnace. Price: $12.00 44. "Mechanism" by Robert McArdle Keown and Virgil Moring Faires (great names!). 1912/1939. HB. 6x9. 282 pgs. Cvr lightly soiled, could be cleaned. Interior VG. Power transmission, gearing, etc. Price: $16.00 45. "Getting the most of your Band Saw and Scroll Saw" Rockwell Manufacturing Company. 1937/1954. 5.75x8.75. 111 pgs. HB edition. Cvr minor use wear. Interior excellent. A Deltacraft Library book. Price: $15.00 46. 'The New Catechism of The Steam Engine with chapters on Gas, Oil and Hot Air Engines...Relating to Stationary, Marine and Locomotive Engines; Steam Fire Engines; Pumping; Hoisting and Portable Engines; Gas, Oil and Air Engines. Explaining their principal points and their care and management". 1897/1904. N. Hawkins. Theo. Audel, publishers. 5.5x8.5. 437 pgs. Gilt lettering on navy cloth cvr. Full gilt page edges all around. This is the cleanest copy of this title that I have seen. It came right out of the house of the original owner's granddaughter... no kidding. The gilt edging is almost too bright to look at. Price: $42.00 47. "The Practical Treatise on the Steam Engine Indicator, aka Hawkins Indicator Catechism" 1898/1903. N. Hawkins. The companion to the previous title from the same house. Condition is identical. Price: $32.00 48. "Jigs and Fixtures... A reference book showing the many types of jigs and fixtures in actual use and suggestions fo various cases". By Fred Colvin and Lucian Haas. 1943. 6.25x9.25. 371 pgs. Illus with line drawings. Excellent condition throughout. Price: $26.00 49. "Elements of Mechanism". By Peter Schwamb, Allyne Merrill and Walter James all of MIT. 4th edition revised. J Wiley pub. 1904/1930. 6.25x9. 372 pgs. Even if I don't understand anything in this book. I love the title. I guess that is why I always buy a copy when I see one. Red clth cvr very good with a few minor stains that could be cleaned. Interior excellent. Price: $22.00 50. "Patternmaker's Manual" Pub...American Foundrymen's Society. 1953. First. 6x9. 279 pgs. Red clth cvr avg shelf wear. Interior vg with pencil marks. A basic trade school shop text introducing the work of the patternmaker. Price: $21.00 51. "Kent's Mechanical Engineers Handbook... Design, Shop Practice" by William Kent. Wiley Engineering Series. 1895/1946 Revised edition. 5.5x8.5 approx 100 pgs. Flexible cloth cvr with moderate shelf wear. Interior vg. Whatever it is you want to know, Kent knew it already. Price: $16.00 52. Twelve titles from the International Textbook Company series. All pub in the 1930's with material from 1915 through the 30's. 5x7.5. Average 70 pgs each. Navy semisoft cvrs. All are near new condition. Heavily illus with eng. Titles are as follows: Shaper, Slotting and Boring Mill Work; Milling Machines and Equipment; Gear Calculating and Cutting; Geometry and Trigonometry; Grinding Equipment and Practice; Drilling Machines and Practice; Elements of Blueprint Reading; Formulas, Cube Roots and Logarithms; Measuring Instruments; Bench Work; Milling Machine Practice and Work; Erecting. Sold as one lot. Price: $68.00 53. "Principles of Combustion in the Steam Boiler Furnace." 1920. Arthur D. Pratt. Babcock & Wilcox, publishers. 6x9. 114 pgs. Fifth edition. Minor shelf wear to spine edges, else excellent all around. Charts, graphs and descriptive text. Personally, I don't understand this stuff... unless it was for a barbecue. Price: $16.00 54. "The Modern Blacksmith" Alexander Weygers. 1974. SB. 7.75x11. 96 pgs. VG condition all around, owner inscribed. $10.00 55. "Modern Steam Generators; Safety and Economy, Steam Boilers, Feed-Water Heaters manufactured by Wickes Brothers, Saginaw Michigan." 1904. HB sales catalog. 7x10. 149 pgs. Silver gilt illlustration of the globe as a caloric engine on cover. Cvr illustrations clear. Spine and about 1 inch of cvr soiled but fully intact. Usage wear to cvr edges. Foxing on first and last pages and some interior. Bulk of interior is vg. Catalog of steam boilers for heavy industry. Price: $31.00 56. "The Tin-Plate Industry: A comparative study of it's growth in the United States and in Wales" D. E. Dunbar. 1915. ExLib. 5x8. 133 pgs. Minor shelf wear to cvr. Lib pocket in rear and label on spine. The effects of the growth of the tin plate industry in the US on the Welsh tin plate industry. Price: $19.00 57. "A Treatise on the Use of Belting for the Transmission of Power". John Cooper. 1878. ExLib rebound. 5.5x9. 309 pgs. Heavily illust. Minor shelf wear to cvr, interior vg with lib pocket. Consists of excerpts from trade journals, cycolpedias and personal correspondence from engineers and mechanics. Just what you need when you design or re-belt you workshop. Price: $25.00 58. "Lives of The Engineers; Selections from Samuel Smiles". Thomas Parke Hughes, Ed. MIT Press. 1961. 5.5x8.5. 447 pgs. Annotated excerpts from the 1861 original two volume account of 19th C engineers by Samuel Smiles. Smiles gave a typically Victorian account of the development of James Brindley, Thomas Telford and John Rennie each from their boyhood through their engineering triumphs. Interesting accounts of Scottish life, of apprenticeship as millwrights and of the social and engineering politics of the time. Bridge, road and canal building. DJ frayed at upper edges. Book clean and vg. Price: $22.00 59. "De Re Metallica. by George Agricola" Translated by Herbert Clark Hoover and Lou Henry Hoover. Dover, 1950. 7x11. 672 pgs. 289 illustrations. DJ very frayed, someone taped it at one point. Minor bumped corners of book, else vg throughout. "The famous Hoover translation of the unabridged edition of the greatest treatise on technological chemistry, mining, geology and engineering of early modern times". First published in 1556, this is the Dover hardback edition. Price: $62.00 60. "Planecraft: Hand Planing by Modern Methods: Completely Revised and Enlarged" C. W. Hampton & E. Clifford. 8th printing courtesy Woodcraft Supply Corp., 1972. Original 1934/1959. 5.25x8. 255 pgs. SB. Minor cvr creases, interior vg. A brief history of woodworking planes followed by a comprehensive treatment of Record hand planes. A nice introductory book that contains many helpful hints. Price: $14.00 61. "The Young Mechanic: containing Directions for the use of all kinds of tools, and for the construction of steam engines and mechanical models, including the art of wood turning in wood and metal". by The Author (no kidding, that is how he signs this book. Apparently he was an instructor at Kings College in Britain). 5.5x8. 346 pgs. 1871/1877. Red cloth cvr with gilt and black embossing, Gilt illus of young man at a workbench using a plane. Cvr has average shelf wear, all gilt is intact. Interior vg without any foxing or staining. All in all a very nice copy of this title. I know that you have heard this from me before... but you should read this book. I particularly like the part on how to make a steam engine. Price: $42.00 Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ++++ End of thread 18821 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18822 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42623 (thread 18822) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-04 04:31:00 Subject: FS: Toolemera Press Reprints The Toolemera Press Limited Edition Trade Catalog Reprints Gary Roberts 1077 South Street Roslindale, MA 02131 groberts@s... These are the currently available Toolemera Press reproductions. All reproductions are high quality photocopies taken from the orginal, not from a master. This technique produces a high level of line definition. Reproductions are on color matched paper, bound and cut to match the original size. Each reproduction has the date of publication. To order items from this list, please contact me at groberts@s.... I will ship your order upon receipt of payment, made out to Gary Roberts. All prices include domestic postage. International purchasers please note (including Canada and Mexico): Please specify method of payment. After I receive your email order, I will contact you if there will be a substantial difference in mailing costs. I also produce a monthly list of books and ephemera for sale. If you would like to receive this list, just yell. Gary Roberts,1077 South Street, Roslindale, MA 02131-2321 ....................................................................... Note... orders are shipped as soon as possible. It may take me a few weeks after the first of the month to catch up on orders. Please be patient. ....................................................................... Title: "Some Stanley Improved Carpenter' and Mechanics' Labor-Saving Tools: Stanley Rule & Level Co., Sole Manufacturers, General Offices & Works, New Britain, Conn, USA, New York Offices, 107 Chambers St." This pocket catalog is C.1905. Description: 3.5x6. 28 pgs includes cvr. Original has tan cvr with offwhite interior and yellow accents. Reprint has tan cvr and ivory interior. Stapled at fold. Contents: Stanley Mitre Boxes (description and prices), Planes (many of these planes hold 1905 patent dates): Bed Rock (round side), Bailey Adjustable (1902 patent), Bailey Wood (notes that extra plane woods can be ordered at small cost), 113, 20 1/2, 2o, 10 1/2, 10, 9 1/2, 9 3/4, 15, 15 1/2, 16. 17, 18, 19, 60 1/2, 65 1/2, 60, 65, 101, 100, 102, 103, 110, 120, 220, 130, 146, 147, 148, 39, 98, 98, 180, 181, 182, 190, 191, 192, 78, 12, 12 1/2, 112, 90, 92, 93, 94, 71, 71 1/2, 131, 340, 97, 45 (incl no. 6 nosing tool for the 45), 55, Concealed Ratchet Braces (with exploded view) 921, 911, Box ratchet braces 923, 913, Victor Ratchet Braces 935, 945, 955, Adjustable bit gauge 49, Angle Divider 30. End page has illustration of Bailey No. 4 Box copyright 1902. Price: $6.00 ....................................................................... Title: "Sargent Planes and Other Tools. Sargent & Company. New Haven, Conn. USA. Manufacturers of Hardware for More Than Sixty Years. High Grade Tools, Builders' Hardware, Etc.". This pocket catalog dates from the mid 1920's. The original is from the collection of Richard Burton, who was kind enough to allow me to use this pocket catalog for a Toolemera Press reprint. Description: 4.5" x 6.5". 78 pages. Tan cover with off white interior. The original has blue accents on the cover. The reprint cover is in black and white on tan paper with ivory interior papers. Both are stapled at the fold. Contents: The line of Adjustable planes (with parts list) including bench, auto-set (with or without the adjustable front knob., wood-bottom, block, rabbet (block, side and bull-nose), fillester, double side match, combination (with parts and cutter lists), circular, router, scraper, roughing. Also included are sundry items such as bench hooks, Aiken's saw set, screw drivers, awls, chisels, pincers, plumb bobs, clamps, bench screws, saw vises, carpenters squares. Price: $8.00 ....................................................................... Title: "Yankee" Fine Mechanics Tools and "Yankee - Handyman" Household Tools. No. 15 Dealers Costs - Suggested Retail Prices. Temporary Catalog. January, 15, 1947. North Bros. Mfg. Co., Division of the Stanley Works, Philadelphia 33, Pa., U.S.A. An 8 page, 7" x 9" dealers price list on light blue paper. The original appears to have been a photocopy taken from the standard Stanley catalog and reassembled as a temporary price list. The reprint is folded once and not stapled, as in the original. Included are: Bit brace, Bit extensions, Drills - automatic, Drills - hand and breast, Drills - bench and chain, Drills - reciprocating, Drill chucks, Repair parts, Screw Drivers - ratchet, Screw drivers - rigid, Screw drivers, phillips, Spiral screw drivers, Spiral screw driver accessories, Tap wrenches, Tools - offset, Vises. Each tool has the wholesale and suggested retail cost, either for a single item or as a boxed lot. (Ex: no. 1446 hand drill, wholesale price: $5.85, suggested retail price: $8.80). Each tool is keyed to a page number is the Stanley -Yankee catalog. Price: $4.55. ....................................................................... Title: Disston Pocket Catalog 40 pages, 3 1/8" by 5 1/2". Light green self cover (cover is of same weight paper as body papers), offwhite body pages. Two staples at fold. Very nice engravings throughout of tools along with 'shadowed' text and typical turn of the century Victorian engraving embellishments. Reproduced size = 3 1/8" by 5 1/2". Reproduced on light green and offwhite 20lb Hammermill brand paper. Stapled twice at fold as in original. Contents: Front cover depicts a D8 saw in the process of ripping a board. Rear cover depicts the D3 Filing Guide and Clamp, patent Dec. 12, 1893. #120 Acme Spring Steel Saw. #112 Hand Saw. #12 London Spring Steel Saw. #D100 Spring Steel Skew Back Saw. #D8 Skew Back Saw. #16 Spring Steel Saw. #8 Spring Steel Saw. #7 Cast Steel Beech Handle Saw. #D100 Ship Carpenters Saw. #43 Combination Saw (Plumb and level attachment, also lists #42 without attachments). #29 Hand Saw (includes straight edge, rule, scratch awl). #7 Gauge Saws (includes depth stop for tenoning, shouldering, dovetailing, etc) Backsaws... #4, Dovetail, Pattern Makers. Keyhole, Compass and Nesting Saws. #4 Mitre Box Saw. Disston Goods... #93 Mortise Gauge, #2 Bevel, #1 Try Square, #16 Level. Screwdrivers... Telegraph, Electric, Machinists. Triumph patented Saw Set. Monarch Saw Set. #1 Ball and Socket Saw filing Clamp. Saw Files And for your reading pleasure, the end of this pocket catalog includes a four page monologue: "The SAW, How to choose it and how to keep it in order, Being a series of Practical Hints to Mechanics." Price: $7.00. ....................................................................... Title: Langdon Mitre Box Co. price list, Mitre Box Directions, Mitre Box parts card, Mitre Box price tag and Envelope. Date: Appearance is turn of the century. No date on any of these items other than Patent date noted for the Langdon Mitre Box (February 27, 1883). Unfortunately I have not had time to thoroughly research the dating of this set. Description: The original set came in a 6 1/2" x 3 3/4" brown envelope through which a string was punched, presumably to so as to tie the set to the Mitre Box for display. I have reproduced each piece to size; the Price list on cream colored 20lb paper; the Mitre Box Directions and Parts List each on separate pieces of white 67lb card stock; the price tag and envelope are on opposing sides of one piece of white 67lb card stock. The Price list includes plates, descriptions and prices for each of the tools sold by the Langdon Mitre Box Co., C. C. Rogers, President, Geo. E. Rogers, Treasurer, Millers Falls, Mass, USA. It is approximately 13" x 5 1/2" and is a 3 fold list: The Rogers Mitre Planer. The Perfection Jointer Gauge.The Star Mitre Box. The Langdon Mitre Box. The New Langdon Mitre Box. The New Langdon Improved Mitre Box The Langdon Mitre Box Co. Directions includes directions for the Langdon, New Langdon and Improved Langdon Mitre Boxes. It is a 1 fold prochure, approximately 3 1/2" x 5 1/2" when closed. The Langdon Mitre Box Co. parts list for the Langdon, New Langdon and New Langdon Improved Mitre Boxes is a single 3 1/2" x 5 1/2" card with plates and parts listed on each side. The price tag is an unpriced Dennison tag for the Mitre box. The envelope is 3 1/2" x 5 1/2" with printing on one side only. Note that all pieces have a hole punched through one corner for string. The hole has been closed over as much as possible. You will see a slight mar in each piece that does not detract from the overall appearance and does not block any pertinent details. This set is cut to size and folded as in the originals. Price: $5.55 ....................................................................... Title: "Price List of Breast Drills, Braces, Ferrules. Etc., Etc. Manufactured by H. S. Bartholomew, Bristol, Conn. 190_." Description: 24 pages, 3 1/4" x 5 1/2" on ivory paper. Stapled as in the original. Very attractive type and decorations on the cover and illustrated throughout. The Bartholomew Ball Brace, Machinist Screw-Driver Brace, Bartholomew Cheap Grip Brace, Bartholomew Cheap Ratchet Brace, Bartholomew Medium Brace, Bartholomew Medium Ratchet Brace, Bartholomew Excellent Brace, Bartholomew Excellent Ratchet Brace, The Bartholomew Brace, Bartholomew Ratchet Brace, H. S. Bartholomew's Forged Steel Jaw Brace, Bartholomew's Forged Steel Jaw Ratchet Brace, Patent Differential Thread Bit Holder, H. S. Bartholomew's Differential Screw Brace, H. S. Bartholomew's Differential Screw Ratchet Brace, Armstrong's Patent Double Grip Brace, Armstrong's Patent Double Grip Brace with Ratchet, Two Motion Breast Drill with and without adjustable grip chuck, Double Geared Breast Drill, Malleable Ferrules. All of this in such a tiny package! I have to admit that this is one of my favorite catalogs. It is lovely to look at without being overdone in design. Sharp and clear print and copper plate etchings displaying Bartholomew's patented braces from 1861 through 1884. Price: $7.00. ....................................................................... "Suggestions On The Care Of Saws By C. C. Taintor, Inventor Of The Taintor Saw Set". Taintor Mfg. Company, 113 Chambers Street, New York. 1908, 24 pages. 3.25" x 6.5". Green cover, off white interior. Illustrated throughout. This reproduction is made to size, stapled at the fold. Cover is of green paper and interior is of ivory paper. The title page reads: "Hints on the Care of Saws With Suggestions for Jointing, Setting And Filing". C. C. Taintor is pictured throughout this booklet using his patented saw set. He looks somewhat like Ulysses S. Grant! Thoroughly illustrated. Describes how to care for saws using the Taintor Positive Saw Set with a brief review of what is wrong with the competitors models. Includes a description of the workings of the Taintor Positive Saw Set. Price: $7.00 ....................................................................... Title: "Catalogue and Price List of Genuine D. R. Barton Edge Tools made only by Mack Tool Co., Inc, 100 Brown's Race, Rochester, N.Y. (DR Barton stamp), All tools of our make are stamped as above. We do not make tools with special brands for anyone. September 1st, 1922" Description: Original - 6" x 9" on newsprint. Some foxing on cover. Reproduction - approx 5" x 8" on ivory paper, stapled at fold. 22 pgs plus self cover. Contents: Broad, hand, bench, pinning and flooring axes; hunters, shingle, half, lath and box hatchets; carpenters adzes; carpenters, coach, carriage, wagon makers and shingle draw knives; corner, socket framing and special manual training socket chisels; carpenters socket handle and trowel shank handled slicks; socket, firmer, millwrights, patternmakers and shipbuilders socket chisels; firmer, millwrights, patternmakers and ship builders socket gouges; patternmaker's long paring firmer chisels; turning chisels and gouges' turner's hustler chisels; patternmakers long paring firmer gouges; butt chisel, socket butt chisel; cast steel plane irons; Addis style carving tools; ship builders tools... adzes, axes, calking mallets, calking irons; brace bits... countersinks, reamers, screwdrivers. Price: $8.00 ....................................................................... Title: "Stanley Improved Labor Saving Carpenters' Tools including 'Bailey Adjustable Planes' ". Stanley Rule & Level Co. New Britain, Conn., U.S.A. Imp Pocket catalog, C. 1900, 20 pgs including cover, 3.5" x 6.25", tan cover with cream interior pages. Some foxing on rear cover and last page. Plumbs and Levels, Bedrock Planes (A New Style of Iron Bench Plane), Bailey Adjustable Planes, Bailey Wood Planes, Bailey Adjustable Block Planes, Stanley Iron Block Planes, Parts for Planes, Stanley Adjustable Circular Plane, Improved Victor Circular Plane, Stanley Cornering Tool, Stanley Carriage Makers' Rabbet Plane, Stanley Improved Scrub Plane, Adjustable Scraper Plane, Improved Rabbet Plane, Duplex Rabbet Plane and Fillester, Stanley Side Rabbet Plane, Stanley Adjustable Beading, Rabbet and Match Plane, Stanley Patent Universal Plane, Improved Dado Planes, Stanley Rabbet and Block Plane, Adjustable Cabinet Makers' Rabbet Plane, Woodworkers' Router Plane, Stanley Universal Spoke Shaves, Stanley Improved Butt Gauge, Improved Marking and Mortise Gauge. Price: $6.00 ............................................ Title: "Emmert Vises, Illustrated Facts", published by The Emmert Manfg. Co., Waynesboro, PA." C. 1901. Description: Original - 3.25" x 6.25". Orange cover, cream interior. Stapled at fold. Reproduction - 3.25" x 6.25". Red 60lb paper cover. Cream interior. Stapled at fold. 18 pgs including cover. Some foxng apparent on front cover of reproduction. Contents: Illustrated sales pamphlet for the Emmert Vise. Includes numerous testimonials. Brief descriptions of the suggested methods of work. Numerous clear engravings of the vise in all it's working positions. Illustrations are of the "turtle back" style vise mounted on a wood bench. Shown are boring (with a PS&W style brace), planing (with a handled wood smooth plane), chiseling and filing. Includes one page devoted to the rarely seen Emmert Handy Vise for farmers, carpenters and wagon makers. Price: $6.00 ............................................. Title: "Buck Bros. Edge tool catalog." 1894. "Stamped with the Buck's Head, Illustrated List of Tools Stamped Buck Bros. Cast Steel or Buck Brothers, Manufactured at the Riverlin Works, Millbury, Mass, USA, 1853 - 1893, Established 40 years, For Sale by Hardware Dealers throughout the United States. Beware of Imitation, Ask for Tools Stamped with the buck's Head, small tools that will not admit of being stamped with the Buck's head are stamped Buck Brothers in full. All of our boxes are labled with the Buck's head, which is out trade mark". In the corner there is a hole and print: "Hang this up." Description: Original - 5.75" x 9". Yellow cover, cream interior. Stapled at fold. Reproduction - 5.5" x 8.5". Canary 60lb paper cover. Cream interior. Stapled at fold. 12 pgs including cover. Some slight foxng apparent on corners of front cover of reproduction. Full rear cover engraving depicts the Riverlin Works Factory. Note that the original cover was printed at a slight angle. The reproduction is the same. I try to produce as precise a facsimile of the original as possible. Contents: Firmer chisels and gouges, Paring chisels and gouges, Turning tools, Beveled edge firmer chisels, Extra socket chisels and gouges, Socket Mortise chisels, Socket Deck or Ship Carpenters chisels, Carpenters slick, Millwrights socket firmer chisel, Corner chisel, plane iron, toothing iron, screw driver bits, nail sets, brace reamers, countersinks, punches, burnisher, London Style carving chisels and gouges. Price: $6.00 ....................................................................... Title #1: "Instructions for the use of Simonds Crescent Saw Tools". C. 1930. Instruction sheet for the use of the Simonds #340 lumber cross cut saw tool, the Simonds setting stake, the Simonds Spring Set and the Simonds Setting/Swaging Hammer. Text illustrated with steelplate engravings. 8.5" x 11" single page reproduced on blue paper as in the original. Title #2: "Atkins Excelsior Saw Tool No. 5". C. 1916. Instruction sheet for the use of the Atkins No.5 Excelsior Saw Tool, a combined cross cut saw Jointer, Raker Tooth Gauge and Side File. Includes instructions for use of Setting Block and Set Gauge. Text illustrated with steelplate engravings. 5.25" x 13.75" single page reproduced on yellow paper as in the original. Price: $4.00 Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ++++ End of thread 18822 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18823 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42624 (thread 18823) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 03:42:00 Subject: May F.S. List Here is the list of old tools I have for sale this month. I usually have the common bench and block planes so I don't list them separately but will respond to any request for them. I do a flea market or tool show almost every weekend and buy tools continously. Standard old tools terms apply. Also there will be another auction of 650 lots of tools and related items at Old Tools in Santa Monica on 6/20 and I have been promised that I will a copy of the list on disc so I can forward . I will be taking absentee bids for this auction for a fee of 10% of the bid amount or $10 per lot (whichever is greater) plus shipping. I will need deposits before bidding please e mail me after 5/24 for the list and complete absentee terms. Now... I got the following stuff for sale plus A lot more that I'm too lazy to type ADZES #1071 unmarked foot adze 6" wide good user condition. $50 CHISELS,GOUGES, and SLICKS #1038 Buck Bros. 1 1/2" with mahogany edge protector excellent $45 #1331 James Swan 1/8" sash mortise chisel $25 #1400 Addis V parting gouge nice shape never rusted about 1/2" V $35 DRAWKNIVES #1069 A. J. Wikinson 8" draw knife folding handle nice $65 #1310 James Swan 8" folding handle draw knife nice $75 #1401 No name 8" draw knife low miles ought to work ok light rust no pitting $20 if I don't have to clean it. BLOCK PLANES , REGULAR (these are just a few of the many I have on hand) #1320 Knapp Aluminum toy size block plane like Stanley 101 $20. #1326 Millers Falls #16 Like stanley # 9 1/2 excellent $32 #1340 Stanley #101 good + $32 #1402 Stanley #18 knuckle joint cap adjustable throat block plane ca. 1905 good= $32 #1403 Stanley # 9 1/2 adjustable throat block plane ca. 1905 nickel cap good+ $32 #1352 Stanley # 60 1/2 $50 LOW ANGLE BLOCK PLANES #1032 Craftsman # made by Millers Falls similar to Stanley #65 nice $60 #1327 Stanley #65 type 2 1905-1911 pre knuckle joint cap $100 #1404 Stanley #65 knuckle joiont cap $65 #1405 Defiance #1148 made only 1950-53 near mint $35 COMPASS PLANES #1307 Stanley #113 ca. 1925 good linkage and sole lots of japan and iron $125 FORE PLANES (BEDROCKS LISTED SEPARATELY) #1022 Stanley # A6 aluminum good wood little corrosion owners initials scratched in the bed $225 #1336 Seigley #6 repaired tote $65 JACK PLANES only a few of the many Stanley,Sargent and Millers Falls I have. 5 and 5C usually $40-$45 (BEDROCKS LISTED SEPARATELY) #1406 Stanley # 5 1/2 C ca. 1910 with V marked iron good wood and metal $75 #1407 Stanley #5 1/4 sweetheart ca 1931-35 $75 JOINTER PLANES (usually have 7's)(BEDROCKS LISTED SEPARATELY) #1070 8C ca. 1899 long original iron $95 MATCH PLANES #1408 Stanley #48 with 3 new cutters good user $65 MOLDING PLANES #1359 S.cumings 1 1/2 X 7/8 complex molder bevel and ogee four stars per Pollack $125 RABBET PLANES, ALL TYPES #1409 Stanley #75 $32 #1362 Stanley # 10 1/2 excellent wood full length iron $175 #1342 Stanley # 10 full iron excellent wood $175 #1410 Stanley #140 nice lots of iron all correct $125 #1411 Stanley #140 fine user side plate screws replaced $110 #1412 Millers Falls 07 nice shape $120 ROUTER PLANES #1360 Stanley # 71 complete with all cutters and parts in user made box WWII vintage $65 SMOOTHING PLANES (lots more: 3's $50 and up and 4's $40 and up)(BEDROCKS LISTED SEPARATELY) #1413 Stanley #3 just post war with black hardwood handle super user $50 SCRAPER PLANES #1339 #12 good wood longe replacement iron plugged hang hole $75 BEDROCK PlANES #1359 #607 round side smooth cap long 1892 marked iron $175 #1414 # 607 flat top ca.1936 with full nickel on cap long iton good ++ wood nice metal no pits $225 #1415 # 7C type 1 bedrock ca. 1898 smooth cap long 1892 iron nice wood and metal $200 #1416 #605 C flat top type 7 or 8 was rusty but cleaned up nice $125 NEW REPLACEMENT PARTS #1001 short rods for #45 $12 pair #1002 long rods for #45 $15 pair #1003 plow cutters for #45 to 3/4" $7.50 ea. over 3/4 $9 ea. #1004 cutters for #48 or #49 $15 set or $6 ea. ++++ End of thread 18823 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18824 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42625 (thread 18824) ---- From: FrankSronce Date: 1998-05-04 04:54:00 Subject: FS: Books & Goodies 5/98 Following items are for sale. Old tools standard terms apply. Dado Planes Stanley 39-3/4 dado plane. Type 3. All pieces are there. Slight surface rust on spurs; otherwise in great shape. Most of japanning still there. $150. Stanley 39-1 dado plane. Type 2. In good shape with following exception: right hand spur has 7/32 inch piece missing above and to the right of the bottom screw. Some surface rust. Needs cleaning. Larger size 39s more expensive. Price reduced due to spur damage. $185 Keen Kutter jointer gage (similar to Stanley #386). Has most of japanning on upper section that attaches to the plane. Fence has no japanning. Can't find my one KK book, so I don't know if fence had japanning originally. $100 BOOKS COUNTRY FURNITURE: Aldren Watson, paperback edition of 1974 classic. $12. FWW TECHNIQUES: Volumes 1, 2, 3, & 5. Hardback. Read all the early years of FWW without the ads. Out of print for years. $25 each or $85 for all four. THE WOODWRIGHT'S ECLECTIC WORKSHOP. Roy Underhill. Paperback, 1991, 238 pgs. $10.00 THE IMPRACTICAL CABINETMAKER: John Krenov (enough said). Hardback, 1979, 160 pages. $20.00 A REVERENCE FOR WOOD: Erick Sloane, paperback, 1965, 111 pages. Some spots on cover, rest of book ok. Originally sold for $2.95; now $10.00. ++++ End of thread 18824 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18825 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42626 (thread 18825) ---- From: Phil Hopkins Date: 1998-05-04 05:13:00 Subject: FS & WTB Howdy, Rapacious Ones, I've got a few things I would like to sell, and a few things I'd like to buy (sorta figured that out from the subject line, didn' cha?) I'm moving into a new place (with a TWO CAR SHOP --- YEAH!) and I don't want to move these things with me. WANT TO BUY: - Phillips head brace bit #2 - Phillips head #2 and #1 for Yankee #30 - Center bits -- 1/4, 9/16, 5/8, 3/4, 1-1/8, >1-1/4 - Russell Jennings #4 and #8 Medium or Fine lead, lots of spur, level cutting lips. I want 'em nice and crispy! FOR SALE: DADO PLANE -- Somebody buy this dado plane from me. It's about as crispy as they come, and I'm sure there's lots of you guys out there using 4/4 rough sawn, and you may just want to take those down to 7/8 rather than 3/4, and when you do, you'll need a 7/8" dado. Well, I got just the thing for ya! Greenfield Tool Co, #265 7/8" dado, with brass depth adjustment Original wedges, very crisp edges, straight and clean. I haven't touched this one, and it's practically ready to use, but if you like, I'll sharpen the blades and send 'er out ready to dado! $40 BOX O' BRACES -- I sold some bits a while back, 'cause I got too many. Well, I definitely got too many braces, so I'm selling a box lot of four 10 inchers. (Don't worry, that'll still leave me with three 10 inchers -- and I think that's all we need to count at one time!) You know you need several with your favorite bits in each for no-wait-until-you-load boring -- at least that's what I tell my wife. - Stanley No. H1250, stained hardwood, ratcheting, 99% nickel in very nice condition with the least play in the chuck of all my braces. - Bridge Tool Co. BN 10, beech, non-ratcheting universal, 85% nickel, I've used this one lots and she works good. Initials carved into head held on by clinched nails. - Unknown maker (looks like a Pexto chuck), beech, non-ratcheting universal, with a very large, nicely shaped head, no nickel and very dark patina. Not a great brace, but I like its head. - Unknown maker, Made in USA, ratcheting universal, beech, no nickel and very dark with some rust. Very old repair job to the shaft at the head, but it turns smooth. This is a rough one, but it's usable. $20 for the lot, and I'll throw in a big ol' Stanley Phillips brace bit and a Stanley No. 139 3/4" brace rose-head countersink that needs some regrinding since some knuclehead ground it without relief (it wasn't me!). CLAPBOARD MARKER -- Any of you house-builders or timber-framers out there need a Stanley #88 clapboard gauge? This one's in nice shape, ready to mark clapboards. I'll take $15 for it. Standard terms. Phil Who promises not to buy another brace ...... unless it's really, really nice..... ++++ End of thread 18825 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18826 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42627 (thread 18826) ---- From: buzzmk Date: 1998-05-04 05:14:00 Subject: FS Here is my list - I've tried to be as honest as humanly possible - standard terms apply. Unless specified otherwise I will ship UPS ground - closer, faster & more reliable ;-) 1) Stanley 4C type 11, user condition, nice rosewood - three tight checks in knob, probably caused by age. Tote has an extremly clean break, lower center, good glue job, you have to look to find it. Correct blade, pitted at the business end, almost 2" of it left though - if you really want to you could salvage it - I'd be tempted to slap in a Hock blade. 70 to 75% japaning, moderate pitting on the sides - sole is in great shape - I've already lapped it - nice overall patina. $25.00 + 5.00 for shipping/insurance. 2) Stanley 4 type 17, WWII type, good user condition, Good red stained hardwood - 95% laquer left - though has the standard minor tool box dings. Blade is good shape & has about two good inches left. This one has a nickeled lever cap with about 50 to 60% remaining. This plane has no frog adjustment nor is the body tapped for the adjusting screw. 70 to 75% japaning remaining - nice patina - all parts seem to match & be original. $45.00 plus $5.00 for shipping/insurance. 3) Wards Master 4, if this plane wasn't made by Stanley I'll clean your shop. This plane closely matches the details of the plane above - #2. The exceptions are the brand name marking, a one piece lateral adjustment lever & a standard weight main casting. This plane has the same foundry marks as #2, every dimension is identical - Including the red stained hardwood, the single piece mounting screws for the wood, the hard rubber depth adjusting knob & the lack of an adjustable frog. The wood has several lateral stress crack, all well & tightly glued, about 35 or 40% japaning left & nice even patina. Blade is servicable & has plenty left great user. $11.00 OBO + $5.00 for shipping/insurance. 4) Nice little beech coffin smoother 5 7/8" long, 1 1/2" blade marked Sheffield Made, some rust but not at the business end, wood is tight with no checks or cracks - no marking of any kind. Nice shape $12.00 OBO + $3.50 shipping/insurance 5) User made rosewood skew rabbit plane. 9 5/8 x 3 3/8 x 1 1/4, blade is almost 1/4" thick & has no pitting on the business end. The wood is very nice - has one chip on the front edge a 1/4 x 1/8 x 1 7/8 wedge shaped - nice tight mouth about 1/16 or less. Makes nice shavings. $30.00 OBO + $ 5.00 shipping & handling 6) 90J bullnose plane - English - virtually new in box - $20.00 OBO + 3.50 shipping Buzz Keever ++++ End of thread 18826 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18827 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42628 (thread 18827) ---- From: buzzmk Date: 1998-05-04 05:23:00 Subject: WTB WTB - American made Stanley 93 or 92. I don't need anything collectable / a sound user will suffice. Buzz Keever ++++ End of thread 18827 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18828 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42630 (thread 18828) ---- From: Becky & Tim Hammond Date: 1998-05-04 06:19:00 Subject: WORTH block plane and some neat books Short version: found an interesting plane some cool books. Long version: Drove down to the northwestern suburbs of Seattle (a.k.a Anchorage) this weekend for a bird dog get together. Mother nature sent a reminder that we were still close to Alaska, though, and I couldn't talk those city folks into setting birds in a snow storm, so I had to find some way to kill a three day weekend. Antique shops and used book stores are rare in Anchorage, but they're really rare here in Fairbanks, so I hit every one I could find between Denali National Park and the Gulf of Alaska. The most interesting find was a cute little block plane with WORTH stamped in the top of the iron. It had a beech? knob on the front, and a very worn cast-iron wheel about 2.5 inches across for tightening the iron. The iron was really thin its entire length. I've never seen an iron so thin before. It appeared to have been used fairly recently, though. The iron was razor sharp, and the sole was clean, even though the upper end of the iron was pretty rusty, and all the japanning (if there ever was any) was gone. Anyone know anything about WORTH block planes? The only other tool of interest was a Stanley 190 in really poor shape. I had much better luck in the used book stores: American Woodworking Tools by Paul Kebabian and Dudley Witney. I've been an old tools user for a several years now, but never paid much attention to the collecting side until I started eavesdropping on the porch, so this was an exciting find for me. You guys must be sending subliminal messages in your e-mail. Woodworking technology, a 1966 textbook on woodworking that contains, among other interesting things, a chapter on pattern making. Basic Woodworking Processes, by Herman Hjorth, a 1935 textbook that has lots of good basic galoot wisdom. The Art of Wood Turning, by William Klenke, c 1937. File Filosophy and How to Get the Most Out of Files: being a brief account of the History, Manufacture, Variety, and Uses of files in general. 1943. Nicholson File Company. Learned lots of things I never knew in here (like, at the time of printing, Nicholson files were marketed under 14 different brand names). All this from 37 antique shops and 12 used book stores. And you guys think _you're_ in old tool hell? -- Tim ++++ End of thread 18828 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18829 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42631 (thread 18829) ---- From: Lawrie Silverberg Date: 1998-05-04 06:19:00 Subject: FMM insomnia It's Monday, May 4, 5:45 a.m. I've been up sisnce 4:30 a.m. and so far no FMM posts. Did I miss something from the list moms?????????? It's going to be a very long day at the office. Lawrie ++++ End of thread 18829 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18830 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42632 (thread 18830) ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 1998-05-04 09:49:00 Subject: FS May 1998 Standard terms. When item is received, notice the postage on the package, and add that to the price. Orders will be honored in the order that they are logged in. Starred items at beginning of list are leftovers, most of them reduced in price. I am leaving for EAIA early Wednesday, so orders may not be shipped until next week; but for any customer who will be in Scranton, I can bring your order along and save the postage. *Side-hollow plane by Fox & Washburn. It makes an elliptical ovolo 5/8 by 1/4 in. Some boxing has been replaced. $8. *Sawset, Disston Triumph 7 1/4Ó. If the anvil ever had numbers, they are now worn away, but everything else is undamaged. $8. Sawset, Taintor No. 7, the one recommended in FWW last August. $10. Compass plane, shallow radius, 7 1/2 in. long. Dark wood looks like some kind of fruitwood rather than beech. Body is marked , blade by Newbould. $15. Group of 10 hollow and round planes. I would like to keep these together because they all belonged to Connecticut boatmaker P. J. Burr, and all but one have his stamp. They are as follows: 1 1/2in. pair, W. H.Pond, New Haven (1 star maker) 1 1/8in. pair, Greenfield No. 14 7/8in. pair, W. H. Pond 5/8in. hollow by Pond, matched with 5/8in. round by G. W. Denison 1/2in. hollow by Pond 1/4in. round by Pond All ten for $130. Moving fillister by W. H. Pond, also stamped P. J. Burr. Boxed corner shows wear but not enough to be a problem. $35. Double match plane, coming and going, for 5/8 In. stock. Phoenix Company No. 84, owner P. J. Burr. Fine condition. $25. 3/8 in. side-bead, solid boxed, by W. H. Pond, owner P. J. Burr. Wood is all fine, and the boxing as nice as you can find. $15. Sidebead 3/16 Inch, solid boxed, by Union Factory. No damage to main body, no wear to boxing, and a hard size to find. $15. 3/16 in. side-bead by Greenfield, owner P. J. Burr. Not quite as nice as the previous one, but certainly good+. $12. 5/8 in. side-bead by Howland, owner P. J. Burr. Good+ $12. 7/8 inch, two-bladed nosing plane by Ohio Tool No. 91. Good+. $20. 1 1/4 round, Greenfield No. 18. A little dirty and minor fine cracks but otherwise good+. $15. 1/4 in. hollow, Lamb & Brownell No. 2 size. A great size for easing corners. $15. Combination tool handle, KeenKutter with 6 tools. Cocobolo handle has two small cracks. KeenKutter is one of the best of these tools in utility and appearance. $30. Plow plane by Birch & Son (Birmingham around 1860). Wedged slide arms. One arm is missing about 3/4 in. from the end. Wedges should be replaced. Everything else is good+. Unmatched set of 8 blades included (mostly Greaves). $65. Spokeshave, Bailey No. 1 with Stanley Rule and Level blade. Japanning maybe 30%. Thumb screw not original (has a flat grip rather than the screw-eye type). $10. Plier-type leather punch with 6 sizes, all of them sharp. $3. Combination square, Stanley current production. Level and scriber intact. $5. Chalk line/plumb bob, "STRAIT-LINE" by Irwin Co., $3. Chalk line/plumb bob "CHALK-O-MATIC" by Stanley, $3. Rosewood/brass handled try square, 7 1/2 in. graduated blade, small chip at end of handle. $4. Trevor Robinson 65 Pine Street Amherst, MA 01002 ++++ End of thread 18830 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18831 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42633 (thread 18831) ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 1998-05-04 09:49:00 Subject: WTB Still looking for: J. M. Taber hollows and rounds in sizes 28-30, 34-38, #20 round only Greenfield side-beads 7/16 and 1 1/4 The long arm for a Stanley 100A demountable framing square Trevor ++++ End of thread 18831 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18832 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42634 (thread 18832) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-04 10:18:00 Subject: Hammer ID + gloat The gloat is just this; I was done with one shop and had gone on down the street to the next while my SWMBO lagged behind. When she caught up to me she asked "Did you see that tiny little hammer in that last shop?" No. So,...I overcame all my resistance to going back..the self talk about c($*&m kids toys etc. : my pride in never missing a tool.... went back, and here was this little hammer. So the gloat is my SWMBO who is getting better eyes for this than I have ! The hammer is tiny.....must be a jewelers hammer. The face is just under 1/2 inch dia and the head is 2 7/8 long with a long tapering straight peening tail to it. Total length is 7 1/2 with a nice oak handle. This thing is precise. The machine work to make this thing is beautiful to behold..... LOGO? Can't make it out. There are two names with a star between them followed by a "C" that looks more like a crescent moon. I MAY be able to decipher a few letters in the name after zapping, but I wanted to avoid zapping if possible since the patina is so nice. Does the logo prompt an obvious ID for anyone? Thanks Tom ++++ End of thread 18832 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18833 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42635 (thread 18833) ---- From: Bhermanek Date: 1998-05-04 10:18:00 Subject: FS: Bill Hermanek's tools list THIS IS MY LATEST LIST OF ANTIQUE TOOLS THAT I HAVE FOR SALE. PRICES DO NOT INCLUDE SHIPPING AND HANDLING. My terms are: you e-mail me with the items your interested in and I will guesstimate the shipping costs to you. You then send me a check for the full amount . When I receive your check I'll send out your tool or tools to you within a couple of days. If you do not like what I send you please let me know immediately and I will try to resolve it with you, but please let me know first. STANLEY TOOLS DESCRIPTION CONDITION PRICE #77 Dowel cutter machine in original box, with the 3/8 cutter head Exc. $300.00 Four Square jack plane exc. $40.00 Four Square block plane exc. $30.00 Handle for #1 plane exc. $35.00 #12-1/2 scraper plane, no wood sole and no blade good $25.00 #85 Scraper Plane, the best one I’ve ever had, the best for any collection (at an unbelievably reduced price) Exc. $700.00 #62 low angle bench plane, tip off tote, cleaned and ready to be sharpened and honed good+ $295.00 #A18 block plane Exc. $155.00 #1203 Defiance smoother, here’s another no excuse plane Exc. $30.00 #1 Odd Jobs, missing pointer Exc. $85.00 1955 original catalog exc. $40.00 1953 original catalog exc. $45.00 #13-052, Rabbeting combination plane, with 10 blades, in sleeve,english, partial box remains mint $85.00 #13-050, English version of the #45,has 18 cutters in the sleeve, also has the conversion kit for 8 extra cutters, this tool is mint and has all the bells and whistles, conversion kit and cutters are in original boxes mint $105.00 #112 scraper plane (early S.R.&L. stamp on blade, tight crack in handle) good + $165.00 #98 and #99 side rabbet planes, slight flaking of nickel on one plane other one in exc. Condition, with depth stops exc. $180.00 #59 doweling jig in the box, Box is only fair, jig is exc. Exc. $25.00 TOOLS by OTHER MAKERS mitre plane, English, mahogany infill, skewed mouth exc. $155.00 slitting gage, all wood, with roller good + $45.00 Mahogany panel gage with ornate head exc. $45.00 bevel gage, brass, mahogany and steel, Fenton & Marsden are the makers, Rare because ther is no slot for up and down adjustment of blade exc. $30.00 Screwdriver with 4 blades, rare ,patented exc. $115.00 bevel square, eagle brand, cast iron good+ $40.00 Coachmakers router with saw tooth blade, super rare, French exc. $150.00 wood die, 1-1/8" mint $35.00 Low angle English mitre plane ,mahogany infill exc. $155.00 BILL HERMANEK 31 WILDWOOD LA. ,SMITHTOWN, N.Y. 11787 (516) 360-1216 e-mail address: BHERMANEK@A... (ANY ITEM MAY BE RETURNED WITHIN 7 DAYS FOR A FULL REFUND) SHIPPING NOT INCLUDED PLEASE MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO Bill Hermanek ++++ End of thread 18833 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18834 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42636 (thread 18834) ---- From: SANFORD MOSS Date: 1998-05-04 10:37:00 Subject: FS: My Daughter's Dowry GGs, Here is my May's FMM forsale list. As always, Standard Oldtools (Leach) Terms. Please send your mailing address when ordering as I try to get things shipped as soon as possible. The descriptions here center on any faults I've seen in the tools. More complete descriptions and pictures of all the listings can be found on my web page at: http://134.88.12.107/tools/tfs.htm PLANES & SHAVES P1 - Stanley #7 (type 4, 1874-1884) Jointer Plane Dating from the 1880s this plane is true to type in every regard sans the blade (P), which is a slightly later replacement. Perfect tote and knob, small paint splatters, and perhaps 80% of the japaning remains. Price - $75.00 P2 - Stanley Defiance #3 size plane Perfect wood and little prior use. No rust and lots of blade left. About 70% of the body japaning remains. Give a GIT a Gift. Price - $15.00 P3 - Stanley #51 Spokeshave. The japaning is near 100%, the proper nut, clean and complete. Good blade. Price - $ 20.00 P4 - Near Miniature Round Plane (1/8" radius). Almost a miniature. 5 3/8" long by 2"deep, this little yellow birch molder cuts a hollow with about a 1/8" radius. Iron wedge are perfect. Some light scratches and minor dings from a life in a tool box. Good+. Price - $20.00 P5 - Lamb & Brownell 3/4" casing plane The 9 1/2" plane is easily in good+ condition with only 1 small rough edge on the otherwise perfect wedge to mar it. Nice patina, clean blade. Price $35.00 P6 - Stanley #5 Jack Plane, Type 13 Tote horn MIA. Beyond that >90% of japaning, no rust or pitting, knob is great with only a minor ding, the sweetheart blade with 2" of good steel left, and the sole is clean and crack free. A nice plane for the money (or even for more money). Price $30.00 P7 - Stanley #3 Smoothing Plane, early Type 11 This last of the low knobs has more than 98% of the body japaning (less on the frog), and 2 1/4" of good blade. The wood is excellent A very nice smoother for the shop. Good+ Price $45.00 P8 - 1" Nosing Plane, Union Factory Chapin Stephens No. 133 This beech, 9 1/2" nosing plane is in good+ condition, marred only by a partial crack in each of the two wedges, and some minor dings on one side. Price - $20.00 P9 - Pr. John M. Taber 7/8" Match Planes. Both members of this pair are in Good+ condition, with only very miner dings and user stamps. The patina is good and the wedges are near perfect. The metal fences and skates are also in very good condition, with only minor areas of fine pitting. Price - $45.00 CHISELS & GOUGES C1 - Buck Bros. 7/8" Socket Firmer Chisel. A wonderful chisel 12 1/4" long with 5" of working blade. The fruitwood handle has only a few minor dents (no chips) and a full 3/4" of leather. Easily in good+ condition. Price - $19.00 C2 - Set of 6 regular sweep Buck Bros crank neck incannel gouges. In the following widths: 1/8", 3/16"; 1/4"; 3/8"; 5/8"; & 1". All fruitwood (one cherry) handles are clean . The 3/8" gouge has a significant chip in the edge & will have to be reground. Price reduced to: $150.00 C3 - Set of 5 shallow sweep Buck Bros crank neck incannel gouges. In the following working widths: 1/4", 1/2", 1", 1 1/4", & 1 1/2". All handles are clean and made of fruitwood except for the 1 1/4" size which has a hickory handle. Priced reduced to: 125.00 BORING TOOLS B1 - S.W. Card Co. Die Stock. Marked "No. 4", and "S.W. Card, Mansfield, Mass." this 17" wrench is in good+ condition. Packed in a red fingerjointed box with sliding lid (perhaps original?), this includes an extension handle. Price - $25.00. B2 - Millers Falls No. 12 Breast Drill. This nice old breast drill measures 17" overall and has the model number No. 12 "Improved," on the chuck along with 2 1909 patent dates. It is two speed, with an attached level. Some japaning remains on the split frame, and this one has the old MF green paint on the gear wheel with some decorative trim remaining--three position handle and nice cocobolo wood on the handle. The auxillary handle is MIA. Good+. Price - $30.00 B3 - Goodell-Pratt Pushdrill. Marked "Goodell Pratt Company, TOOLSMITHS, Greenfield, Mass" on the barrell of the tool. On the upper end of the handle, the inscription reads, "Goodell Pratt Company, Greenfield, Mass, U.S.A., Pat'd Dec. 28, 1915". The tool is in good+ condition. Two bits remain in the magazine, which can hold 8. Price - $15.00 B4 - Goodell-Pratt Eggbeater Drill. The small size (10" length), delicacy and extra nice condition of this Ovumhandgekranckenscplattermacher make this one of the nicest I've seen. Delicate 3-jawed chuck, gear wheel with nearly all of its original red paint; lots of nickel on the shaft, and great cocobolo wood on all three handles. Only 2 bits in the hollow handle, but this is worthy of a collection. Good++ at least. Price - $55.00 B5 - Goodel-Pratt Chain Drill. If you ever thought you would like a chain drill, this is the one. In almost new condition (>90% japan, 100% Nickel), this is the nicest one I've seen. With the G-P "Toolsmiths" mark, and the patent date, Aug 13, 1895. Fine. Price - $35.00 B7 - No Name Breast Drill (nice) This tool is equipped with exceedingly nice cocobolo wood handles, and the shaft and two-jaw chuck retain better than 95% of the original nickel finish--which is very unusual. Traces of red paint remain on the gear wheel and on the underside of the breast plate A nice breast drill. Price $18.00 B8 - Boxed set of Irwin Auger Bits. The 13 bits are all clean, no rust, and sharp, marred only by some chuck jaw marks around the tangs. W.H.C., who owned these, kept them well. All are stamped--The "Irwin" Bit, Rg. U.S. Pat. Off. The box is clean, with the Irwin breadbox ends to the lid, the inside of which has a perfect old black label. A nice set, Good+ at least. Price - $100.00 B9 - Stanley/Fray #61 Bit Brace, 6" Sweep. This is a brace for the Stanley collector. In addition to being in the uncommon 6" sweep size, it is a John S. Fray brace that was marked by Stanley after their takeover of the Fray company in 1909. This brace is not listed in Walter, but it is clearly stamped, "Stanley Rule & Level Co, New Britain, Conn" opposite the Fray mark. The brace has excellent cocobolo wood, and more than half its original nickel. Good+. Price - $100.00 B10 - Boxed set of Irwin Auger Bits This set of 13 nice solid center auger bits are individually marked "Irwin USA", except for one outlyer, which is the 5/16 size. The 1/4 bit is also abherrent in that the tang was ground down by some idiot. Otherwise nice condition, being shiny, sharp, and having only an occasional spot of light storage rust. Box is finger-jointed oak with all its original green labels, inside and out, marked "The Irwin Auger Bit Company, Wilmington, Ohio, USA". Price - $60.00 Rules, Gages, Bevels, & Layout R1 - Stanley Key Tape A nice gift for the Stanley collecter. Stanley key tape (#30-141), new and unopened in its original package. Price - $10.00 R2 - Lufkin #8203 1/10 Shrink Rule This 24"+ rule is brass-bound on the ends, The only fault is a few small smears of black paint that will probably clean off. Marked, Lufkin, Made in USA. Price $10.00 R3 - Lufkin # 881EM fourfold rule This fully brass-bound, 2 ft, 61 cm, arch joint boxwood rule is marked both "Made in USA", and "London". It is tight, fairly clean (and will clean to be much better), and well marked. Only a couple of small dings in the brass, its main fault a missing alignment pin (which is not unusual). A nice rule. Price - $35.00 R4 - Stanley #21 Combination Square--Early. This poor square has lost its japaning and is moderately pitted throughout the blade (which is readable). What makes it interesting is the V logo that dates it from the earliest days of its manufacture. This one is so early it has no provision for a scratch awl. Type 1. Good-. Price - $15.00 R5 - 9" Try Square. Not marked, Stanley, this is a dead ringer for the #18 in the usual 9" size. Good wood, good brass, blade is lightly pitted in places, but is readable. A user. Price - $5.00 R6 - Rosewood Mortise Gage. Unmarked, but surely a Stanley #78 with great brass and nice wood. The only apologies are owners stamps (I can count at least three different ones), and a missing fixed pin (easily repaired). Good+. Price - $35.00. R7 - Stanley #61 Beechwood Marking Gage. Marked with the SweetHeart logo this is so clean and little used it still has traces of the price label on it. Fine. $10.00 R8 - Stanley #68 2' four-fold Rule. Easily in Good+ condition this has just some slight staining on one side. Good pins. Price - $15.00 R9 - #68 lookalike 2' four-fold Rule. Some staining around the brass hinges present the only fault with this unmarked rule. Good for the tool box. Price - $5.00 R10 - General #520 Steel Trammel Points (In Original Box) They only suffer some light storage rust on the knurled knobs that will clean right off. Marked No. 520, Made in USA, there are some slight scratches from rattling around in the box with a loose extra adjusting nut. The yellow box is in good condition with some fraying of the edges and some slight tearing of the original label. Price $33.00 R11 - Disston 10" Bevel Square The blade is marked "Disston & Sons, Phila. U.S.A." The brass is perfect, and the rosewood handle has a couple of dings and two tack holes. The major detraction is a replaced, incorrect blade locking nut. Better than it sounds. Price $10.00 R12 - Stanley #13 1/2 2-fold Caliper Rule This is a nifty little 6" rule, the wood of which is in new condition. The brass is marred just from the blistering of the original lacquer finish. Walter lists this rule from $50 to $150, and given its condition, this one should be closer to the upper value. However, there is another flaw--a small piece of brass that has cracked off the binding on the underside of the caliper. Price $40.00 R13 - Cloth 50' Tape Measure. This tape is unmarked, but the reel is brass bound with green painted sides (nice). The tape is dirty for the first few feet, but can be cleaned. Good. Price - $10.00 SAWS & STUFF S1 - "Eclipse" 4S tool Manufactured in Enland by Eclipse, this set of slitting and slotting tools is easily in good+ condition. The box has some dirty spots, that will clean, and some minor scrapes in the paint. Price= $15.00 S3 - Simonds Saw A nice, old and used 26" Simonds rip saw. It has a history of so many sharpenings that bottom of the logo (which is clearly etched), carrying the model # has been sharpened away, leaving an inch of steel at the toe. The nicely carved handle is in good+ condition with only miniscule chips and 4 split brass nuts. A good, straight, usable saw that has many sharpenings left in the blade. Price $10.00 S4 - Stanley #406 Hacksaw. A funky later model with tubular frame (that doubles as a spare blade holder) and three-tone color scheme (chrome frame, brown handle, yellow plastic bolsters on the handle). Three extra new blades are stored in this one. Fine. Price - $9.00 BLUNT INSTRUMENTS H2 - HUD Hatchet This nice hatchet with 18" inch handle is marked HUD and 1914 inside embossed diamonds on the head. In good+ condition. Price $8.00 H3 - Armee Francaise Claw Hatchet Be the first on the block to own one of these--a genuine French army hatchet, The hatchet looks new and unused. The blade, which is deeply stamped "Armee Francaise, Forval", has never been sharpened and the claw is relatively crudely machined, suggesting that the tool is intended for demolition rather than hewing--it is definitely a blunt instrument. Price $10.00 BOOKS BK2 - Rogers Erecting & Operating Machinery This is a 1927 reprint of a fascinating work, the complete title of which is: "Erecting and Operating. An educational treatise for constructing engineers, machinists, millwrights and master builders", by William Rogers. 601 pp. In good+ condition Price- $20.00 BK3 - Popular Science: How to Get the Most Out of Your Home Workshop Published in 1946 by Popular Science,. 131 pages. Except for some slight foxing, in fine condition. Price - $10.00 MISCELLANEOUS M1 - Peck, Stow & Wilcox 8" Tin Snips. These working tin snips are clearly marked, "P.S.&W. Co, Forged Steel, East Berlin, Conn". They are in as nice a condition as you will fine. Good+. Price - $8.00. M2 - Stanley #28 Cornering Tool . It's very useful to carry in your pocket to roundover the sharp edges of conference tables during boring meetings. In good+ condition with just a tiny hint of some nickel lifted in the center of the tool. Price. $19.00 M3a - This is a massive unmarked stainless steel bob, with a machined knurled screw insert for hanging. Five inches long, and three inches wide at the shoulder, it suffers only a few dings from the tool box. Price - $60.00 M3b - A brass, steel pointed bob that is unmarked except for the stamped initials, J.C.O. that are probably on owner's mark. It is five inches long, tapering to 1.5 inches at the shoulders, and weighs perhaps 16oz. Good+. Price - $20.00 M3c - Another brass, steel-tipped bob, this one is smaller than the one above (4" x 1.5"), and weighs about 8oz. This one has a screw-in brass insert for the line attachment,. It is nice with very few & very small dings. Good+ at least. Price - $16.00 M3d - Unmarked japaned small bob. This iron bob is thickly japaned and has an integral hanging hole. 2 1/2" long by 1 1/2" wide. There are some dings and scratches in the japaning, but better than 95% of it remains. Price - $12.00 M3e - A little brass, steel pointed bob, 2 3/4" x 1 1/8" at the shoulder. Stamped, "L.S." at least, it has some dings, but is nice. Price - $10.00 M4 - P.S.& W. Co - Set of Three Coe's-type Wrenches. These 10" Coes-style wrenches are of exactly the same style, age and condition. They are heavily stamped "Cleveland, O. U.S.A." in addition to the P.S.&W. Co. mark, and are in exceptionally good condition for tools of this sort. Only a few dings on the jaws and hammer backs keep these from being fine. The set consists of 8", 10", and 12" sizes. See MJD at $55.00 apiece. Price - The set, (all three) $ 28.00 M6 - Early Shop Light Protector (unique) A metal shop light protector with an intricate, perhaps handwrought grillwork. The tool carries a patent date of "8-22-16This is such a galootinous shop addendum that you might be tempted to put a candle in it! Price $18.00 M8 - Stanley #700 Woodworkers Vise (new) This is the latest version (blue finish) in absolutely new condition. Just the vise to take to the office to show off the IT and your dovetailing skills. Price $ 22.00 Sandy Moss smoss@u... phone 508-999-8218 (office) 508-636-2030 (home) 398 River Road Westport, MA 02790=20 ---- Start of Message 44229 (thread 18834) ---- From: Dave Weisbord Date: 1998-06-01 17:15:00 Subject: Re: FS: My daughter's dowry >M2 - Stanley #28 Cornering Tool. Almost 100% nickel. >Good++ Price - $19.00 If this is a SW I would like it (to go with my #29). Dave ++++ End of thread 18834 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18835 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42637 (thread 18835) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-04 10:37:00 Subject: wtb list Want to Buy List Stanley planes type 13 # 7 : 8c Auger bits marked BAILEY BIT I especially need sizes #5 and #15 to complete a boxed set and would be willing to pay a premium for them. Auger bits marked only RUSSELL JENNINGS with fine lead screws in sizes #8 / 11 / 15 Auger bits marked RJ-100 in sizes #8 and 9 (only the super spiffy need apply) Russell Jennings bits in sizes over #16 Eskilstuna (Eric Anton Berg) chisels (esp larger sizes / tang type) Stanley 921 Braces in 6, 12 and 14 inch swings Stanley chisels: 750's in sizes 3/8 : 1 3/4 : 2 arch type leather punches in sizes 1/2 inch and up ++++ End of thread 18835 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18836 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42638 (thread 18836) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-04 10:39:00 Subject: fs-May-Berg blowout PLANES 1. #8 type 11/12 will clean very nicely..nice patina; retipped tote $90 2. 605c type 6 repainted but o/w nice. Good user....nice wood BEDROCK lever cap $100 3. 606 type 6 yoke once broken and replaced...lotsa japanning; good wood BEDROCK lever cap $125 4. #8 unknown brand but very clean.....beaded low front knob (nice) replaced tote with black painted type 17 tote......no pitting $40 6. 5 1/2c type 12/13 (3 date bed) repainted nicely / wood refinished ..spiffy Sweetheart blade: STANLEY in the lever cap $75 7. #6c type 15 repaint....was pitted but is v. clean / usuable..wood retipped ref; $48 10. 10 1/2 newer type; refinished rosewood; no rust / pits.... lotsa japanning..... $150 15. #70 Box scraper SWEETHEART spiffy (maroon handle) $30 16. #102 w/replaced blade... $9 17. #103 with l-o-n-g S.R. & L blade....japanning pretty well worn off on the sides, but no pitting $25 18. #110 Stanley Rule and Level logo..slight pitting...80% jpnnng... $13 19. #118 block plane (with the add on ID plate..rarer one) $30 20. #120 ...early one, but top of blade is 'shroomed $15 23. #130 type 2.....Good++ lotsa japanning / nice brown patina $85 16. #220.... $20 17. #220 $20 18. #220 $20 21. Shelton block plane (#118 knock-off) $13 25 #191 Sweetheart repl depth stop $35 26 #191 Repaint...BB logo repl depth stop $30 27 #192 Sweetheart complete and nice $40 SPOKESHAVES #51 BB logo 85% japanning ....knurled knob good blade $15 #51 BB logo 75% japanning ...knurled knob good blade......... $14 #52 "V" logo....silver paint on blade and lever cap (classy!) o/w good $18 #60....good for nothing...literally.......make a good sinker... $3 #64 lookalike... blade marked Best Cast Steel $8 no-name double shave...one cap missing...pitted blades COULD be sharpened. $6 #60 Sweetheart: very nice except for the crack in the middle web.... still solid $25 #53 style "Bailey's Patent" with brass cupped set knob $30 #53 "V" logo nice $22 #151....will clean nicely $@0 #64 knockoff but with a bit wider blade $10 SAWS S3. Atkins 20inch panel saw crosscut sharpened 4 bolt 10 tpi...handle obviously retipped (bad color match) apple / with wheat pattern...pretty $15 S4. Disston D-13 Lightweight 9 tpi 4 bolt handle wheat pattern with no repairs $15 S6. Disston D-7 Lightweight 6 tpi w/ nice beech handle $15 S8. Disston Keyhole w/beech handle + broken tip $6 S9. Disston Keyhole w/apple handle + broken tip $7 S10. No-name keyhole (modern type) clean and perfect.... $6 LEVELS L2. Stanley #4 V-logo 14" $18 L3. Stanley #102 Sweetheart very spiffy 10" $20 L5 Stanley #2 Adjustible.....exce. cond. except for a hang hole 26" $25 L7 Stanley 03 Sweetheat NICE 26" $30 L8 Unmarked cherry....super 16" $12 Misc Jennings Griffin exp bit ....needs some tuning / work $6 Atkins hand scraper $12 DRAWKNIFES Douglass Mfg curved 8"........ $18 Witherby 9" slow curve; original finish on beautiful handles: no pitting NICE... $30 10" Adj. angle drawknife with brass ferrules...all shined up and ready to go, but needs to have the serrations where the adjustment happens sharpened up to grip better $23 CHISELS C4) DEFIANCE by STANLEY No. 1251 Made in U.S.A 1" $8 ##C6.) Patternmakers chisels: #1 total length 12".....from shoulder of tang to tip... 6 3/4".... .275 wide #2 " 16 1/8" " 10 1/2"... .406 wide #3 " 15 3/4 " 10" .735 wide #4 " 16 7/8" " 11" .500 Note: #4 is a straight gouge ... about a #6 curve..... $110 FOR THE SET These appear to be unmarked Buck. Handles and bolsters indicate "Buck" The handles appear to be hard maple with a dark brown finish.. brass ferrules; beautiful patina...no pitting...steel has that nice "cared for" look of not shiny, but not brown either...just a dull/satin steel All the below are socket type chisels; most are unhandled: where I've remembered to measure length, I measure the length of the flat of the back) C2) BOX ONLY this had a NOS 1 1/2 inch 750 in it. Good shape.....label now says only Socket Butt on it...the rest has flaked away. $5 C9.) 1/4" Pritzlaff......3 1/2 length $5 C11.) 3/8" Fulton straight sided firmer 5/12" length $7 C14.) 1" Eclipse 2 3/4" long $5 C13.) 15/16" Rockford Tool Company (Kokomo) straight sided firmer / mortisers 5" long... $13 C20.) 3/4" Shapleigh Hardware....dirty...light pitting. $4 C23.) 3/4" True Value...dirty / lightpitting $3 C36) 1 1/2" EverKeen steel is 9 3/4 overall $10 C26.) 3/4 Riverside butt 2 1/8 left no handle....dirty $5 C34) 3/4 F.O.K. GiltEdge $7 C37) 3/8" Greenlee firmer $6 C38) 3/4" unmarked, but looks like a Stanley 6" overall $5 C41) H and I J White mortiser...heavy duty iron banded handle; $15 C42) 3/8 Hargreave Smith and Co. straight sided firmer: nice handle $12 C43) 1/2" SWEETHEART ..super condition....deep mark / clean ...... $25 C28.) 3/4" CORNER CHISEL by Fulton...no handle...clean steel $20 BARTON stuff D.R. Barton 1/2 " l-o-n-g socketed firmer...blade 6 3/4: steel 9 1/4. OK leather washered handle...... $25 D.R. Barton unhandled 5/8 inch socket butt. 5 3/8 total length $12 D.R Barton framing chisel / slick usual dings/ rehandled / no rust $45 D.R. Barton drawknife 8" very very nice....no rust no pits...large brass ferruled handles that are a bit primitive looking....this is a goodun' $30 All are Bergs unless noted Plastic handled versions width flat of back A 1 1/2 1 3/4 no handle $14 B 1 1/2 1 1/2 $14 C 1 1/2 2 3/8 Gensco $18 D 1/2 2 Gensco $12 E 1/2 2 Gensco $12 one NOS Shark-O-Lite handle $8 TANG TYPE FIRMERS Width Length of flat on back Handle #1 1/4 N/A.... Berg sharpened to a vee point and short $10 #2 1/4 2 1/2 none $16 #3 3/8 1 9/16 none $14 #4 3/8 1 15/16 nice but not original $20 #5 3/8 3 1/8 (no logo) OK handle not Berg $14 #6 1/2 2 1/4 (Seel) none $12 #7 1/2 1 7/8 (Gensco) none $12 #8 1/2 2 3/4 none $12 #9 5/8 2 1/2 none $18 #10 5/8 3 (Jernbolaget) Berg type $14 #11 3/4 1 13/16 none $17 #12 1 1 15/16 (Gensco) none $14 #13 7/8 4 7/8 (Gensco) none $30 #14 1 7/16 3 1/4 this one is badly pitted, but is cleaned up to where it will be a killer of a user...itÕs the heavy duty style..beveled edges but thicker that the others $22 #15 1 1/2 1 5/16 good repro $12 SOCKET FIRMERS (THESE ARE MEASURED IN TOTAL LENGTH OF STEEL) No handles on any of these #17 1/2 6 $20 #18 1/2 5 1/4 $18 #19 3/4 5 3/8 $20 #20 1 5 5/8 $22 Miscellaneous: Christiansen Bench Stop (pop up) SUPER condition / like new..... $25 ZENITH 2 lb short handled hammer $10 220 body only clean and nice $3 Dunlap plumb bob.... $4 MH Spark Plug wrench202783M1 $3 Goodell Pratt Push drill 188A $12 Not listed: lots of try squares of all sizes several t-augers square tang machine drill bits several NICE edge guides hand saws in varying states of restoration.... ++++ End of thread 18836 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18837 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42639 (thread 18837) ---- From: Deryck Harnett Date: 1998-05-04 10:39:00 Subject: FS: German Chisels GGs I have for sale a set of 7 Hirsch chisels, made for Luthiers Mercantile or its predecessor, Lewis Luthier Supplies. These have octagonal hardwood handles, and are tanged and square sided, with an average length of 5". Sizes are metric 2, 5, 7, 10, 18, 25, and 30 mm. Price is $150.00. Deryck Harnett ++++ End of thread 18837 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18838 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42640 (thread 18838) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-04 10:45:00 Subject: FS: Blades and blades & more blades Well folks...... by overwheliming demand from last months FMM post concerning Hock irons I am now pleased to announce that I have in stock, ready for shipment: Code Description Unit ------ ------------------------ ----- BR375 3/8" Dia Burnishing Rod 11.00 BL162 1-5/8" Block Plane Blade 23.00 BL162 1-5/8" Blk Blade (5/8 slot) 23.00 BP200 2" Bench Plane Blade 27.00 BP238 2-3/8" Bench Plane Blade 29.00 BP262 2-5/8" Bench Plane Blade 31.00 SB080 Blade for #80 Scraper Plane 16.00 SB081 Blade for #81 Scraper Plane 16.00 SB112 #112 Scraper Plane Blade 16.00 SP062 Wooden Spokeshave Blade 24.00 (Add $3.00 Priority Mail shipping to each order) ============================================================= You will also notice that the woden spokeshave blade assembly is now offered as a separate item. This is in response to many folks asking if they could buy _just_ the blade. Which of course you may....... ============================================================= The now infamous "Make a Wooden Spokeshave Kits" are also availible.... these include the blades, your choice of stock: CurlyHard maple, Mahogany, Beech, or White Oak, etc..... Printed instructions and my home telephune # should you have any questions durring the procedure... The Price is $30.00 DELIVERED ... If you order a spokeshave kit, shipping is free on all Hock ordered at the same time. ============================================================= Terms are still Standard OldTool Terms...... for the time being I even include a SASE ;-) ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 18838 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18839 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42641 (thread 18839) ---- From: Old Tools Date: 1998-05-04 06:58:00 Subject: Re: Stanley Want List Requested. We still have over 1700 Stanley tools in inventory. Nearly one example of every model plane produced by Stanley over the past 150 years. Plus many other types of tools by Stanley, Buck, and others. For a quick answer that will include a brief description, condition and price, e mail your needs to us at ftjceb@a.... All sales are guaranteed to your satisfaction. Clarence Blanchard at the Fine Tool Journal Check out our web pages at www.wowpages.com/ftj/ ++++ End of thread 18839 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18840 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42642 (thread 18840) ---- From: Phil and Debbie Koontz Date: 1998-05-04 06:28:00 Subject: FS --Empty box Actually, this is a freeby. I came into a box for 2-3/8" single plane irons for Stanley/Bailey Nos. 4-1/2, 5-1/2, 6, 7, 51, 604-1/2, 606, etc. I'm not a box collector, and the first respondent can have it for an SASE. Mostly intact, with loose corners and the end label is 2/3 gone. Cab't seem to find a date, but the picture shows a high knob and maybe a kidney cap iron. Phil Koontz ++++ End of thread 18840 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18841 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42643 (thread 18841) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-04 04:13:00 Subject: FS: Planes, chisels, etc. Well, it's been a while since I've had time, but I managed to get something together for this months's FMM list. Please ask for details regarding condition, usability, etc, if you have any questions. Terms: You ask, I ship; you like, you pay. You no like, you ship back to me within 7 days, along with check for outbound shipping. Shipping is not included in the prices listed. Thanks! Don Berry berry@c... ********************************* *** planes, spokeshaves, etc. *** ********************************* P1: #10 Millers Falls, smooth plane, #4 1/2 size, very hefty, wide smoother, v. good, tote perfect, a few nicks in finish on knob, $50 P2: 30" transitional jointer wooden plane, Fulton (unmarked), good. This was a personal user, so it's honed and ready to roll. $50 P3: #113 Circular plane, Type 2, side wheeldepth adjuster, Sept. 25, 1877 pat., Stanley, good-; 50% japanning, rear rivets re-braized., $75 P4: #12 cabinet scraper, full-length iron with SW logo, Stanley, v good, 80% jappaning, $75 P5: #17 block plane, adjustable mouth, Millers Falls, 50% japanning, good user, $20 P6: #5 jack plane; type 19, Stanley, good. rejappaned, wood very good., $35 P7: #57 low angle block plane, adjustable mouth, Millers Falls, very good, except missing front button (replaced with screw)., $45 P8: #5C jack plane; type 14 (AA iron), with earlier (type <12 ) type level cap, Stanley, >90% japanning; rosewood good, with some nicks in finish, $40 P9: #6 fore plane; type 13 with type 12 lever cap; sweetheart, Stanley, good; 75% japanning. microcracks in base of knob; small chip off handle, $40 P10: #60, spokeshave, double iron (1 straight, 1 concave), "V"-logo, Stanley, very good, >80% japanning, $55 P11: #48 tongue and groove plane, type 1, Stanley, good+; japanning >90%; replacement irons, $80 P12: #65 low angle block plane, Sweet Heart logo, Stanley, no japanning, 10% nickel, but no active rust; incorrect notched rectangle iron., $50 P13: #66 beader, Stanley, with both fences, no cutters (available from L-N), nickel >95%, $60 P14: #66 beader, with straight fence, no cutters, Stanley, nickel >80%, $35 P15: #7 jointer plane, type 12, Stanley, good; jappaning 50%, $60 P16: #7C jointer plane; type 9 (type 16 iron), Stanley, good 50% japanning; no cracks in wood (wood slightly "chewed") small chip off handle tip., $60 P17: spokeshave, loop handles, Dunlap, good-; usable., $5 P18: #80 scraper plane, "Rule & Level" on clamp bar and nub of blade, Stanley, >90% jappaning; very good, except for worn out iron, $40 P19: block plane, Sargent, adjustable mouth, good; japanning >90%; original iron, but mouth plate has heavy pitting. Shouldn't effect use. $25 ******************************** *** braces, drills, and bits *** ******************************** D1: pushdrill, identical to Yankee #41, with some bits in handle, North Bro., good; >80% nickel, except on shaft, where it's 25%., $15 D2: pushdrill, Yankee #41 with 5 bits in handle, North Bro., very good; >90% nickel, except on moving shaft, where it's 50%., $15 D3: screwdriver, Yankee-type, #6, Miller's Falls, very good, $16 D4: set of 13 auger bits, in hinged original box. Mixed maker bits, James Swan, good box and label; light surface rust on bits, $40 D5: Brace, 10", red wood handle & pad, unmarked, good, $15 D6: Brace, 10", rosewood handle & pad, Miller's Falls, good, $20 D7: Brace, 10", rosewood handle & pad, unmarked (prob Miller's Falls), good, $20 D8: Brace, #945, 10" sweep, Stanley, very good (almost new, except minor pits in black laquer), $25 D9: Brace, Yankee #2101, 10", plastic handle and pad; identical to "Bell System" models, North Bros Philaa Div. of Stanley, very good, $35 D10: drill, eggbeater, Craftsman, works well, red paint on wheel >75%, $12 D11: eggbeater drill, "Buck Rogers", red plastic handle, grey metal enclosing gears, 6 twist bits in handle, Millers Falls, very good, very smooth action., $25 D12: #2100 Yankee brace, very heavy duty, North Bros, very good; lots of bright left, but speckling on arm, $40 D13: #29 Yankee-style screwdriver, small, in original box, Millers Falls, fine; a few small chips on enameled ring between handle and nickel, $45 D14: #H1220 "egg-beater" drill, "Handyman", Stanley, excellent; paint near 100%, decal on wheel, $20 D15: #1221 "egg-beater" drill, "Defiance", Stanley, excellent; paint near 100%, decal on wheel, $20 D16: #130 Yankee screwdriver (medium), Stanley, very good; >95% nickel, works smoothly., $15 D17: #135 Yankee screwdriver (small), Stanley, only brass left on shank; other nickel o.k.; works fine., $15 D18: #30 Yankee screwdriver, North Bros, good, $14 D19: #30A Yankee screwdriver, maroon plastic handle, Stanley, like new, $15 D20: #41 Yankee pushdrill with 8 original bits, North Bros, fine; 100% nickel, a few discolored spots on knurling, $35 D21: auger bits, Stanley / Russell-jennings, set of 13 in 3 tiered box, box v. good except for slight warp inlid; label good, $75 D22: #610 Yankee-type screwdriver, Millers Falls, very good, $18 D23: #61A Yankee-type screwdriver (medium), Millers Falls, only brass left on shank; other nickel o.k.; works fine., $17 ************************** ***** miscellaneous ****** ************************** M1: hand-cranked grinder, 4" wheel (5" gear box.) Will take larger (<8" ) wheels). Built-in tool rest., unmarked, very smooth cranking., $15 M2: #3d Saw vise, 10" jaws, cam release,clamps to bench, Henry Disston, good; jappaning > 75%, works well, $20 M3: 5' crosscut timber saw, 2 man, detachable handles, unmarked, rusted, not pitted. one side mainly bright., $30 M4: 6' 2-man saw, removable handles, unmarked, good; blade needs good cleaning, $25 M5: #18 bevel, 8", Stanley, good, 50% nickel, $15 M6: #18 bevel, 8", Stanley, 75% nickel, $15 M7: #18 bevel, 8", older model with 7/14/08 patent, Stanley, good, 0% nickel, $12 M8: #91 marking gage, double-rod type, Stanley, good; 90% nickel on rods, no nickel on fence, 1 replacement screw, $18 M9: #95 butt marking gauge, WWII vintage, Stanley, dirty, japanning ca. 50%, all nickers o.k., $10 M10: blacksmith's leg vise, unmarked, complete, working, painted silver (rather heavy to ship), $25 M11: 5 blacksmith's tools (pincers, tongs, etc.); smaller size, ca. 15" OAL, Unmarked, good, $30 M12: caliper, outside, 14", Luftkin Rule Co., Very good, $15 M13: calipers, 8", inside, The L. S. Starrett Co., very good condition; initialed JWM, $12 M14: calipers, 8", outside, spring, Lufkin Rule Co., excellent condition, $15 M15: Draftsman set in leatherette case, unmarked, case is ratty, tools nice, German-made, $15 M16: Plumb and level, 30", Mahogany & brass, the C.S. Co., Pinemeadows Conn, good, $15 M17: Tape measure, 50'; canvas in brass tin; 1900 and 1897 pat dates., unmarked, good-; cracked greenish enamel over brass, $5 M18: wooden tail vise, 2 1/2" screw & block, unmarked, some checking, screw threads complete, $35 M19: 5' 2-man cross-cut saw with removable handles;, unmarked, good; wax over brown patina, $30 ************************** ***chisels and gouges **** ************************** C1: chisel, 1", firmer, socket, Witherby, excellent, 6 1/4" usable blade, $22 C2: chisel, 1", firmer, socket, Witherby, very good, 6" usable blade, light patch of pitting on face, $20 C3: Chisel, 1", socket firmer, Bucks Bros, v good, 4 usable blade, $16 C4: chisel, 1/2", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 5 1/2" usable blade, $20 C5: chisel, 1/2", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 5 3/4" usable blade, $18 C6: chisel, 1/2", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 6 1/2" usable blade, no handle, $19 C7: Chisel, 1/4" (7 mm, oversized) tanged, Buck Bros, 3 usable blade, $11 C8: chisel, 1/4", firmer, socket, unmarked, no handle, good, 3" usable blade, dirty, $6 C9: Chisel, 1/4", hefty firmer with chamfered top, socket, unmarked, good, 5 1/4 usable blade, $12 C10: chisel, 1/4", hefty firmer with chamfered top, socket, Wards Master Quality, no handle, good, 2 1/2" usable blade, $5 C11: chisel, 2", bevel edged, socket, PS&W, very good, 5 1/2" usable blade no handle, $20 C12: chisel, 3/4", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 4 3/4" usable blade, $18 C13: Mortice chisel, 1/4", socket, leather bolsters on end, 10 OAL, unmarked, good, good handle, 3" usable blade, $16 C14: Mortice Chisel, 1/8", socket, unmarked, good; 6 usable blade (9 1/2" including socket); no handle, $12 C15: Chisel, 3/4", beveled, socket, Buck brothers, 3 1/2 blade, (patch heavy pitting on front, light to moderate pitting on last 1" of the back, $11 C16: chisel, 3/4", firmer, socket, Witherby, very good, 6" usable blade, $20 C17: chisel, 3/8", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 5" usable blade, $18 C18: chisel, 3/8", firmer, socket, Witherby, very good, 6" usable blade, $18 C19: chisel, 3/8", firmer, socket, Witherby, very good, 5 1/4" usable blade, $18 C20: chisel, 5/8", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 6 1/4" usable blade, $20 C21: chisel, 5/8", firmer, socket, mark too light to read, no handle, good, 5" usable blade, $7 C22: Chisel, 7/16" (11 mm), tanged, EA Berg / Eskiltuna, good, 3" blade, $15 C23: chisel, 7/8", beveled edge, socket, Witherby, very good, 5 1/2" usable blade, $22 C24: chisel, beveled edge, 3/4", tanged, Buck Bros, 7" usable blade, very good, handle is good, but short, $17 C25: Chisel, ca, 1/8", socket ; almost a mortice chisel; was cut down from a wider bevel edge chisel, T. H. Witherby, good, 5" usable blade, $10 C26: Chisel or slick, 1 1/2" x 10" incl. socket, heavy, unmarked, good-; light rust, handle rough, $15 C27: chisel / slick, 1 1/2", firmer, socket, very heavy duty, extra long, heavy socket, unreadable, very good, 4 3/4 usable blade no handle, $18 C28: chisel / slick, 1", firmer, socket, very heavy duty, Witherby, very good, 7 1/4 usable blade no handle, $20 C29: gouge, 1 1/4", out-cannel, tanged, J. Smith, 1 1/2" usable blade, very good, split handle glued, $10 C30: gouge, 1", in-cannel, tanged, Wm. Greaves, very good, 3 1/2" usable blade, $15 C31: gouge, 1", out-cannel, tanged, L & IJ White, very good, 4" usable blade, $16 C32: Gouge, 2", #5 sweep, in-cannel, socket, C.E.Jennings, 6 usable blade, fine crack in socket doesn't appear to effect use, $25 C33: gouge, 3/16", #11 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Mawhood, no handle, good, 3 1/2" usable blade, $7 C34: gouge, 3/4", #9 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Buck Bros, good, good handle, 2 1/4" usable blade, $10 C35: gouge, 3/4", #9 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Charles Buck, good, half of split handle, missing, 2 1/2" usable blade, $9 C36: gouge, 3/4", out-cannel, tanged, James Swan, very good, 4 1/4" usable blade, $16 C37: gouge, 3/8", #9 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Spear & Jackson, good, good handle, 3" usable blade, $14 C38: gouge, 5/16", #9 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Buck Bros, good, 3 1/4" usable blade, $12 C39: gouge, 5/16", #9 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Buck Bros, good, 3 1/4" usable blade, end of handle has been reshaped, $11 C40: gouge, 5/8", #7 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, W. Hall, good, 2 1/2" usable blade; nice, but non-original handle with rectangular x-section, $9 C41: gouge, 5/8", #9 sweep, tanged, out-cannel, Buck Bros, good, 3 3/4" usable blade, light pitting, handle has had rough spots shaved off., $11 C42: gouge, 5/8", out-cannel, tanged, Buck Bros, 4" usable blade, patches of light pitting, $15 C43: gouge, 5/8", out-cannel, tanged, W. Butcher, very good, 2 1/2" usable blade, $14 C44: gouge, 7/8", out-cannel, tanged, Buck Bros, 4 1/4" usable blade, very good, $15 C45: gouge, 9/16", out-cannel, tanged, Buck Bros, very good, 3" usable blade, $14 C46: gouge, turning, 1 1/2", out-cannel, tanged, Buck Bros, 6 1/2" usable blade, $18 ************************** ***** old catalogs ******* ************************** OC1: Lufkin #7 catalog of precision tools, 1947, Lufkin, very good, $8 OC2: Lufkin #7 catalog of precision tools, no date, Lufkin, good, but missing back cover, $6 OC3: Starrett #26A catalog, 1953, LS Starrett, very good, $8 OC4: Starrett #26 catalog, 1938, LS Starrett, very good, $10 OC5: Starrett #26 catalog, 1938, LS Starrett, very good, $10 OC6: Starrett #26 catalog, 1938, LS Starrett, very good, $10 ************************** ******** Books *********** ************************** B1: 14 books from the Time/Life Home Repair and Improvement series (maybe the _entire_ series, for all I know. Everything Mr. Homeowner needs to know about wiring, plumbing, etc. All in primo condition. Buy all 14 for $75 ---- Start of Message 42673 (thread 18841) ---- From: Jeff Steele Date: 1998-05-04 17:28:00 Subject: Re: FS: Planes, chisels, etc. Hi Don, Greetings from a couple of blocks east. I'm interested in the following : > M1: hand-cranked grinder, 4" wheel (5" gear box.) Will take larger > (<8" ) wheels). Built-in tool rest., unmarked, very smooth cranking., > $15 > C25: Chisel, ca, 1/8", socket ; almost a mortice chisel; was cut down > from a wider bevel edge chisel, T. H. Witherby, good, 5" usable blade, > $10 > > C7: Chisel, 1/4" (7 mm, oversized) tanged, Buck Bros, 3 usable blade, > $11 > How heavy is the grinder ? Is it possible for you to bring it to Penn ? If it's not too heavy I could carry it back to Drexel. Also, what kind of wheel comes with it ? Thanks, Jeff ++++ End of thread 18841 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18842 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42644 (thread 18842) ---- From: SpeedCom Date: 1998-05-04 07:11:00 Subject: WTB: Anvil, blacksmith tools Looking for an anvil, 70-160 lbs, preferably good, but would accept rough but repairable table. Also tongs, fullers hardies, flatters, 2 lb straight pein hammer or others, swage block, small coal forge. Due to shipping difficulties and costs, the anvil, forge or (if large) swage would want to be within a half days drive of Knoxville TN. Cheers/Carron ++++ End of thread 18842 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18843 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42645 (thread 18843) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-04 12:01:00 Subject: FS: Planes of Distinction May's list of all things good and wonderful for sale. Lots of nice quality planes, as usual, lots new to the list. Terms, standard oldtools, first to say I want it, get's it. On that subject, if my direct email bounces. use jointer@g.... If you are really in a hurry, the office phone is 610-826-3757. I will be (weather permitting) tailgating at the EAIA meet in Scranton on Wed. 5/6 (which starts at 2:00) (PM) Wooden Planes Hollow and Round Pairs B. Preston & Sons #1 H&R 1/8 $45.00 Griffiths Norwich - #2 H&R 3/16 $45.00 Summers Varvill York #2 H&R 3/16 $45.00 John Elsworth Glascow #5 H&R 3/8 Skewed $50.00 All of these are in nice shape, and other than with some light sharpening ready to use. R. Carter - Troy NY. #18 H&R 1 3/8. Nice pair, dark patina, round has a small dig out of the side by the sole, doesn't affect use. Irons (one is a W.S. Butcher, other can't read) are good at the cutting edge. $50.00 Unmaked 7/8 Pair (owner's stamp J.J Stoneham), one wedge a replacement and cracked. $30.00 H&R Singles William Ward New York Maker (**) #14 Round #16 Hollow Both with the N. York mark and no street address. Both were pretty rough, cleaned up okay, need some serious shapening attention. $20.00 each or$35.00 for the pair Copeland #24 (2") Round. Been reprofiled and is rough on the one side, Good user. $14.00 (Small hanging hole) Side Beads..Lots of larger sizes, all really crisp and ready to use. Auburn #105 1/2 D. Malloch Perth 5/8 Bead Shiverick 3/4 Bead Varvill 7/8 Bead H. Chapin #123 Single Boxed All really nice tight, larger side beads. $22.00 each Gardner & Murdoch Green Street Boston 1 7/8 bead (I think). Interesting plane. The cut is 120 deg which is too steep for a hollow, too shallow for a nosing plane (180). Might be a forkstave, but is sprung and could actually be used as a center bead. 1" sliver missing off the one side, other than that a good user and a good collector (**). $45.00 M. Long (Reading PA). 1/4 Bead. Collector piece, not really usable. $35.00 Misc. Look at this..mahagony coffin bodied mast plane. Unmarked, 2" W.S. Butcher double iron, flat chamfered with nice scribing detailing the chamfers. Mouth is open a little and one cheek has been repaired with a cooper tack, however this is a really beautiful piece that is still usable. $45.00 Ogontz Tool C. #5, toted smoother, made by Sandusky Tool, Sandusky Cast Steel Iron. Sole has some wear and a little checking but the tote (carved from the body block) is 99%. Nice dark patina. $30.00 N. Chapin Union 3/4 Ovolo adjustable Sash. Rough, old wedge replacements, the body screws are too long and stick out through the other side. Extra fence piece added. Usable, yes., pretty, well...$20.00..OR $15.00 with any other plane purchase. Rabbets Auburn Tool Co.(1864-1893) #181 2" Skew Rabbet. Been around the block once or twice, but a very tight mouth. $25.00 Sargent & Co #356 1/2 Straight Rabbet $18.00 Everlasts Everlasts..first is a 15/16..funny size, but it doesn't look like it has been ground. 2 3/4 blade (thats the square portion, 7 7/8 over all, barely visible SW logo, handle has a small but long chip missing and a split about the same plane. Other than that, good shape. The next is a Merrill & Wilder..these were the guys that Stanley sucked up to get the Everlast line. What should be a 1/4" has been ground down about 1" to 3/16. 4 3/8 blade, 9 3/8 overall. This guy has a slightly bend, but overall isn't bad. $17 each or $30.00 for the pair. Chisels & Gouges Marples 1 1/4 6" tanged gouge Incannel $12.00 Corner Chisel 1" (12 3/8) Unmarked. Good user grade handle. A nice clean corner chisel. $40.00 Corner Chisel 1" (11 1/4) Unmarked, no handle. $25.00 Misc. Wooden Shoe Size Rule Belcher Bros & Co. NY. Nice shape both scales readable $40.00 User made mahogany panel gauge. 9 5/8 wide head, 19 3/8 wide bead. Not a perfect piece, but usable and looks great. $20.00 Edge Tools - Misc 8" (Cut) Greenlee Drawknife. Another used once and put away drawknife. Super clean, needs sharpening. $30.00 Neat smaller carpenter's hatchet. Hammer has an octogonal head, overall length is 4.25, axe blade width is 2". Really nice collector item. $35.00 Pexto, this time a hewing (or broad) hatchet. 4 3/4 cutting edge, 6 3/4 overall length. Appears to have the original handle. Also has PEXTO cast into a 2 1/2 by 1 1/8 oval on the "up" side of the head. Needs to be ground back 1/8 to get rid of a back bevel, and has some very minor mushrooming on the back side. This is a good user and a great collectable. $65.00 Double Iron (Straight & Concaved) iron spokeshave, similar to a "New Britain" #60. Only marks are on the irons "Best Cast Steel, Warrented". $20.00 ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Intercourse, PA ________________________________________________________ ++++ End of thread 18843 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18844 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42646 (thread 18844) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 12:00:00 Subject: FS / WTB for May, 98 - Infill smoother, scraper and more... Standard Oldtools Terms apply (You want, I ship, you like, you pay + shipping. If you don't like, you return at your expense). I usually ship USPS Priority mail, please let me know if you prefer another method. 1. Infill Smoother - Mathiesen #843 (I believe), best quality open handled rosewood infill smoother. Overall 9 " long by 2 3/8 " wide with a 2 1/4" Marples iron(about 2" of life left). Mouth is tight, set for a light cut it is between 1/64 and 1/32 by my measurement. Tip of tote is missing and has been very nicely rounded over by a previous owner. Looks to have been done intentionaly. Owners stamps are lightly stamped into rosewood sides. The front bun/knob does have a very tight hairline age crack, that will not affect use. Price - $295 + shipping. 2. Sorby Chisels - Set of 5 , 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" 3/4" and 1' New, never sharpened. Boxwood, octagonal handles, with tip protectors and vinyl sleeves. New from Garrett Wade $124+. Price - $70 + shipping 3. Starrett #13 Double Square - 4" double square in pristine condition. Blade is shiney and crisp. Hardly if ever used. Price - $42 + shipping 4. Side bead plane, boxed, 1/2" - nice plane, unfortunately someone sanded off makers mark. Very nice user Price - $9 + shipping. 5. Millers Falls #1 spoke shave - nice rosewood handles, but iron and body are pitted. With some work the iron can be made usable or order a new exact replacememt from Kelly Tools for $12.95ppd. This is a good user and is priced according to condition. Price - $22 + shipping 6. Stanley #82 Scraper - type 1, no blade. Good user condition. Price - $14 + shipping 7. Stanley #81 Cabinet Scraper - nickel plated, rosewood bottom. Nickel plating is about 80% +. Rosewood bottom is original and of original thickness, 1/4". Original blade has about 1" of life left. No rust or pitting at all, nice overall condition and an excellent user. Price - $85 + shipping WTB - I am looking for an iron, cap iron and lever cap for a Stanley #32, 26", Transitional. It's a type 14, both I'm not too particular. It takes a 2 5/8" iron. Got any that haven't been toasted??? ++++ End of thread 18844 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18845 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42647 (thread 18845) ---- From: Chris Winter Date: 1998-05-04 12:57:00 Subject: FS Plow Irons GG's Dwight and French set of plow irons- $70. There are 8 in total. 7 are Dwight and French and 1 is a replacement of the proper size. These are for sale as I found a set that was a bit narrower to fit my plow mo' better. I preferred not to grind the sides to fit. IME (which isn't too great) the Bristish plows seem to accept wider irons more often (but not always..). They are solid users, good patina, lots of life left in all of them, and they come sharp. Please check the width of your escapement in the body of the plane where the wedge secures the iron and distance between the opening in the metal skate where the blade pokes through and email to me before I ship so you're not disappointed. I want to make sure they will fit. You *could* carefully grind either sides of the top of the irons to make them fit but I never wanted to and in this instance you might want to find another set. Standard tools terms for names I recognize- you supply shipping from NY to wherever they find a good home. Thanks for reading. ++++ End of thread 18845 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18846 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42649 (thread 18846) ---- From: Daniel Indrigo Date: 1998-05-04 13:45:00 Subject: Saturday's bottom feeding Well I don't usually get out bottom feeding on saturdays since that's when I work on the neverending basement renovation. But this week I took the day off and went to a charity garage sale. Got in just when it opened and quickly scanned around, nothing, oh wait there's something. Under a table were two metal toolboxes, painted blue. Hey they are both full, I opened them both up and almost lost my breakfast. Each one had 30-40 tools, screwdrivers, pliers, wrenches oil cans etc, all old, no plastic anywhere. Every last one of them was painted in bright orange, yellow, blue, green and white. Not only were they painted but each tool was multiple colors. Screwdriver with orange handle, blue shaft and yellow tip, ACKK! Everything was like this. The person at the booth sees me and says $1 a tool or $10 a box. Great deal but I was so disgusted I couldn't bring myself to buy them. I knew I would waste countless hours trying to clean off all that enamel. Went back the next day because there were going to be new vendors there. The toolboxes were gone but there was a new one in their place. A bright blue open wood tool box with everything inside painted again. Argh, somebodies got to kill this person before they do any more damage. The only unpainted things in the box were 3 saws, 2 in good shape except they were varnished, blade and all, bought 2 of them for $2 each. 2 minutes later a woman came by and bought the whole box. I think I heard the amount of $20 discussed. Not only did this person wreck a bunch of nice tools but they didn't get any kind of return on investment. They must have spent many tens of hours painting these things, apparently to sell them since the paint was perfect, like they hadn't been used since they were painted. All for $40 or so. what a waste. Dan ++++ End of thread 18846 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18847 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42650 (thread 18847) ---- From: Haney, Kevin (CIT) Date: 1998-05-04 13:02:00 Subject: FS and WTB lists Here are my lists for May. OLDTOOL standard terms if I know you--if I don't, an e-mail message or phone call will hold the item until I receive your payment. I will then ship it off via UPS, or the post office, if you prefer. Prices do not include shipping (I'll include the handling for free ;-) If you have any questions about an item please e-mail or call me. Kevin Haney 15664 Kelbaugh Rd. Thurmont, MD 21788 (301) 271-5023 (evenings and weekends) E-mail: Kevin_Haney@n... FOR SALE: 1. Brass pattern maker's spokeshave, $24 Very pretty shave with flat bottom, no cap iron (never had one--blade secures with a screw), 1 5/8" blade made from a Disston saw, 8 1/2" long overall. 2. Stanley #32 1/2 caliper rule, $54 Later Sweetheart trademark, wood is dark but everything is fully readable and the joints are tight. 3. Antique sharpening stone in fancy box, $45 Old fine Arkansas stone, 1 3/4" x 8", stone is good and flat with no chips or cracks. Pine box (with A.V.W. stamped in several places) is stained cherry and is very decorative with ovolo-edged lid. Base is shaped like a } (if looked at standing on its end), with chamfered edges. Hard to describe, but a very pretty piece. 4. Disston 14" backsaw, $18 Top horn off of handle (old damage that has been repaired by rounding off and looks good), chip around one screw. Moderate blade pitting, but sharp and fully usable. 5. W. Marples and Sons 12" torpedo level and plumb, $40 Mahogany with full brass top, brass ends on bottom, vials good, great shape overall. 6. Stanley #37 "Jenny" transitional smooth plane, reduced from last month, $90 Complete your transitional collection with this, the rarest of Stanley's "flammable planes", as Leach calls them! This is the transitional equivalent of the #4 1/2H, a heavy, wide-bladed smoothing plane with an extra wide bottom. This example is a type 10, ca. 1893-99. The beech wood has a nice, dark patina. The top of the tote has been knocked off in years gone by, and the front knob has a small chip out of the base. Japanning is 80%. The lateral adjuster has been bent slightly but is fully functional. The proper blade has 1 1/2" of life left, and there is slight pitting on the top of the blade and chip breaker. Overall, a rare and fully functional plane. 7. Unmarked Stearns #7 saw jointer, $12 Great saw jointer with 95% japanning. See Nathan Lindsey's page at http://www2.interconnect.net/nlindsey/SawSetPage/Types/SawJoiners/SawJoiners.htm to see what it looks like (file not included, but you can use any flat file). 8. Stanley #65 marking gauge, $14 Early Type 1, no name but has the Aug. 5, 1873 Stanley patent date. Boxwood worn, but the scale is readable. The little brass thingy under the screw has been replaced by a piece of sheet brass, but it looks good. Pin is good. 9. Chapin-Stephens #260 marking and mortise gauge, $36 Mahogany and brass gauge in excellent condition. Used very little. Unmarked, but the bullseye trademarks are indicative of C-S. 10. Sargent handled smooth plane, $36 This beech smooth plane has one of those knob handles on the back for a better grip. The wood has a great dark patina and you can see exactly where some former craftsman put his fingers during years of service (I have left the plane uncleaned). This plane still has plenty of service left in it with a strike button on the back, a good double Sargent blade, and a solid old mouth patch on the plane bottom. 11. Wooden jack plane by N. Camper, Baltimore, $15 18" ca. 1850 beech plane, handle cracked and glued, with a single Ohio Tool Co. 2" iron. Cracks in mouth around cheek, still usable or would make a nice display piece. 12. Phoenix spoke pointer, $20 Cuts up to 2". Has adjustable depth stop shaft and good sharp blade. Japanning about 40%. Good pointer with lots of life left. 13. Hand grinder, $18 Just clamp on your bench. Unmarked grinder works great with a 2 3/4" stone. Has tool rest. Will e-mail picture upon request. WANTED TO BUY: Here are some items I'm looking for, if any of you happen across them and could be persuaded to part with them for a reasonable price. I would be willing to trade some of the above for some of the below. 1. Goodell-Pratt fully-bound mahogany levels 2. Harvey Peace handsaws, the kind with the brass guard on the bottom of the handle with the 1883 patent date 3. Disston brass-backed backsaws, and other interesting Disston handsaws Thanks for reading! Kevin Haney ++++ End of thread 18847 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18848 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42651 (thread 18848) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-04 13:02:00 Subject: HELP ID a Carpenters Square HEllo GG's hope this makes it past the FMM - static I got a carpenters square this weekend for .50 cents at a garage sale! it was well used in a previous life, but with a little electrocution it will be servicable again, It has, from what I can tell - all tha markings for calculating Board Feet etc, The makers mark looks like N TEE D E S R T R T.S.C Co E A No 5 E W L It's Measurements Are 15" x 24" outside 13 x 22.5 inside 5/36" thick at the corner and 3/64" thick at the tips Any takers ! That's it for now -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18848 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18849 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42652 (thread 18849) ---- From: Richard Givan Date: 1998-05-04 14:13:00 Subject: FS Hello galoots, first time FS lister here. Having just put into commission (after drying the champaigne from her bows) my new bench, it seems I have a surplus bench. Since a galoot's bench is, after his underwear and toothbrush, probably the most personal item imaginable, you probably need to go through several iterations before settling on your perfect work-holding device. This bench may serve as one of those preliminarys for you. It's built (except for the two stretchers made of construction lumber) of laminated southern yellow pine which was originally the floor of a boxcar. I planed it to clean it up, then made a top measuring 18 x 75 inches, 2 inches thick in the center and doubled to four inches at the sides (where the one inch dog holes are drilled). The base has two sets of trestle legs (made of the same two inch stock) joined with bolted stretchers. The end vise is a Craftsman brand, bought about 15 years ago when I built the bench. It has 4 x 10" jaws, fitted with 18" wooden jaws of, I think, ash. The wooden jaws are drilled with two holes offsetting those on the bench top. The tail vise opens nine inches even with the wooden jaws fitted, (12" without them). It has a split nut type of quick-opening capability. To me, the tail vise looks like the big Jorgensen model. The front vise (on the left side of bench in the typical right-handed fashion) is an older vise, a DEED brand, but well made. It has 4 x 7" jaws that open to 9" and also has a quick opening feature. The bench stands 36" tall, and could be easily heightened or not-so-easily shortened. As best I recall, the top is detachable from the base so the whole thing would easily fit in a station wagon or minivan. At a guess, I'd say the whole thing would weigh about 200 lbs. It ain't pretty; it ain't pristine, but it is beefy and won't do the Home Depot dance when you go to planing on it. Hell, you could park the Buick on it, if you wanted. All I'd like is the $125 I have in the vises. I'll throw the bench in for nothing. The only catch is you need to get yourself and your vehicle to Richmond KY to pick it up. If there's a bench-deprived galoot within striking distance, I'd really like to see this baby go on to a good home. It's served me well for some time now, and I don't want to see it turned into a potting bench. I'll do by best to answer questions via email, or if you want to phone, 606-623-5331. Thanks, Richard Givan I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. ++++ End of thread 18849 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18850 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42653 (thread 18850) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 15:24:00 Subject: FS/WTB Good morning, The following for sale items are available using Standard Old Tool terms, You want the tool, I mail it to you, you send price of tool and shipping if it's as represented, return it in same condition, promptly, if you find it's not what I said it was, as long as your bio is in the file. For sale: Stanley 605C bedrock jack plane, tiny chip in right front corner of frog, newer style blade, Stanley kidney lever cap. I think this is a Bedrock type 6A, square sides, has most of the original japanning plus some extra paint splatters and traces. Handle and knob verynice. $85. Fulton 5260 (#4 size smooting plane) has a Sargent Hercules blade. A usable tool. $15. Stanley #40 scrub plane. Sweetheart blade with about 1 1/2" of usable length left (5" total length) Later style 40 with the longer rib under the blade for more blade support. Has a rosewood handle and a beech knob. $50. Craftsman duplex rabbet (similar to stanley 78) Grey with red cap. Complete with fence and depth stop. Good blade. $25. Spokeshaves: Unmarked #52 type $20. Stanley (?) #54 with blade made from a plane blade. This is the adjustable mouth spokeshave... $20. Stanley #64 with bottomo filed round like a #63 $15. Stanley #64 with some red paint on the handles. $20. Kunz 55 hollow shave $15. Fulton 8 inch drawknife. Plain straight blade drawknife. $10. Hibbard scraper (looks like a stanley #80) $15. Another spokeshave: Stanley 51 good later blade. $20. Stanley #75 bullnose rabbets. Have 2 of these, one is older, has no cap iron, the other is a later made in England, has no blade. (2 bodies, 1 blade, 1 cap) $25. for both of them. Spokeshave blades; Have some new stanley ones for the 51/52 and the 151 shaves, some are made in England and some are Made in USA with stanely in the notched rectangle. $5. for Made in England, $8 for USA> Wanted to buy: Handles for a Miller Falls #12 breast drill. Bothe the side and crank handles, wood and metal parts. Thanks. Jim Erdman ++++ End of thread 18850 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18851 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42655 (thread 18851) ---- From: Anatol Polillo Date: 1998-05-04 14:37:00 Subject: FS: "Hand Saw Sharpening" & "Stanley Planes by the Numbers" Fellow Galoots, I am pleased to announce that "Hand Saw Sharpening" hosted by Tom Law is now available (well, it will be in 5-7 days. So send those orders in now). This one hour video will have you filing saws well into the night. The tape covers Rip (including dovetail) and cross-cut saws. Each tape comes with a Quick Reference Guide that you may want to keep in your shop and "Fact on Files", a publication of Simonds Industries. Tom delivers easy to follow instructions and great tips. A must for every shop with a hand saw in it. The price is $24.95 plus $3 S&H. MD residents add $1.25 for tax. VHS/NTSC only. E-mail me if you have questions. ALSO Available, The "Stanley Planes by(the)Numbers" video is for collectors and users of hand planes. Host Patrick Leach leads the viewer through the myriad of planes produced by the Stanley Rule and Level Company. From the highly prized #1 to the #444 Dovetail plane, Patrick shows how these planes are used, variations and improvements in design and what to look for when you are purchasing a plane. This video features over 100 planes and is an excellent chance to see some of the rarest. Running time 90 minutes. VHS/NTSC only. (Mexico/USA/Canada). Price $29.95 plus $3 S&H MD residents add $1.50 for tax. At this time, the only method of payment is by check or money order. Please send the total that applies to the following address. Please allow 3 weeks for delivery. ALP Productions 3706 Ednor Road Baltimore, Md. 21218-2049 Please include your name and mailing address. ++++ End of thread 18851 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18852 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42656 (thread 18852) ---- From: D & B Brown Date: 1998-05-04 15:25:00 Subject: FS: May FMM Standard "old tool terms". I ship USPS, insured, (usually within 24 hrs) cheapest way, unless you request "Priority" or unless the difference between the 2 is nominal. You pay the amount agreed upon plus whatever shipping is on the package as soon as you receive your order. That means a check put in the mail to me no later than 3 days after receipt. If you want to return an item, you pay shipping both ways unless you can show me where I've made a mistake in the description. In that case, I pay shipping. *** NEW FEATURE *** Well, I've stumbled into the 20th century & now own a scanner. I've even learned how to turn a pretty decent picture into a reasonably small .jpg file for attaching to e-mail. So if an asterick preceeds the item # on my list below, I do have a picture available & will be glad to send it to you upon request. Depending on what the item is, there may be more than 1 item in the picture but I'll clearly explain what's shown, in a left to right format, to eliminate confusion. David Brown For Sale: * #1 Stanley #113 compass plane: 1940s; aprox. 60% japanning; nickle on knob mostly gone, about 50% on lever cap. Wrong cutter but full length & useable. Light rust on metal parts, minor pitting on sole. Will clean up & is definately useable. $75.00 * #2 Stanley #3 smoothing plane: 2 Pat'd dates (Mar. 25, '02 & Aug. 19, '02); low knob, xlnt rosewood but little finish left. Definitely a repaint (not by me!) 85% of "V" trademark cutter. All parts correct & overall in good useable condition. $35.00 * #3 Stanley #80 cabinet scraper: Pat'd 6-2-14 & 6-23-14. Japanning about 85%, nickel 99%. Sole is clean. full correct SW cutter. Only regret, some pitting on back of cutter, should not effect use. $20.00 * #4 Stanley #18 knuckle joint block plane: Pat'd 2-18-13. Japanning about 90%, nickel mostly gone on cap. Full S.R.& L. Co. blade. Overall very good condition. $20.00 * #5 Buck Bros. socketed bevel edge chisels: matched 5/8" & 1/2" w/original handles. Socket to tip 7 1/2", OAL 11 3/4". xlnt condition. $25.00/pair * #6 D.R.Barton 1" tang type gouge: Tip to tang 5 1/2", OAL 12"; Long fancy pattern maker's type handle was cracked & I felt too nice to discard. The crack has been repaired with West Systems epoxy. Handle has some dings as well. Definately useable & in other wise good condition. $15.00 * #7 Cranked neck, tang type chisel: 3/4". Can't find a maker's name (probably English). Tang to tip 8 7/8", OAL 14 3/4". Handle & blade in xlnt condition. $15.00 * #8 Buell Bros., Clinton, Conn, 7" rosewood tool holder w/7 good quality tools: Rosewood in xlnt condition with 99% of it's original finish. There is no plating evident on the ferrule & wing collet. Can't say one way or another if it was supposed to have any plating. The metal has a nice patina (no rust). Tools included: 1/2" & 3/8" chisels, 3/8" gouge, countersink, gimmlet bit, awl & saw. $25.00 * #9 Starrett 12" combination square: blade & all machined surfaces clean & rust free; japanning about 90%; level vial intact, missing scribe. $15.00 * #10 Starrett 6" combination square: blade & all machined surfaces clean & rust free; japanning about 90%; level vial intact, missing scribe. $12.00 * #11 Buy both Starrett squares, (items #9 & #10 above) for $25.00 * #12 Starrett #183 steel protractor: xlnt condition but someone got creative & cut if off (professionally done) at 60 degrees on one side. $3.00 * #13 Starrett #110 guage holder with 1 1/4" steel rule. xlnt condition. $5.00 #14 Disston D23 26" 8TPI cross cut saw (from the '40s): 5 nut w/emblem; completely intact handle w/wheat carving & a small amount of original finish. Blade is clean, no rust & fairly sharp. Used but well cared for. $6.00 #15 Old canvass lineman's bucket with leather bottom: Good condition & very useful; 12" diameter, 15" tall, 1 inside pocket. $5.00 #16 Stanley #25, 24" mahagony adjustable level: SR&L Co. Pat'd 6-2-91 & 6-23-96; Wood is well worn & all the hardware has been removed from it. All hdwre is intact, complete & original, lots of brass. All 3 level vials are intact & w/liquid. Some Assembly Required ;-) $10.00 #17 General Hdwe #840 HD doweling jig w/auger bit depth guage: Unused, in original box w/instructions. Mint $10.00 Books & Magazines #18 _A Manual of Industrial Drawing for Carpenters_ by W.F.Decker: 1885, hardcover, 6.25" x 9", 176 pages, very good condition. $12.00 #19 _Airplane Design_ by Wood: 1938, softcover; Design & construction of wooden airplanes; 8.5" x 10.75". 312 pages. $10.00 #20 _Handmade Houses, A Guide to the Woodbutcher's Art_ by Boericke & Shapiro: 1973, softcover; 8" x 10". 90 pages. Very 60's. $5.00 #21 Deltagram Compilation: Book #3: Ex-libris; hardcover; many interesting projects & techniques. Particularly interesting as Book 3 is the War years, beginning in 1941 & taking you all the way through. Xlnt cond. $15.00 #22_Getting the Most Out of Your Abrasive Tools_, Deltacraft: 1955, hardcover, 5.75" x 8.75". 102 pgs. xlnt condition $7.00 #23 DoAll Contour Saws, 1943, by Leighton Wilkie , Hardcover, 6.25"x9.25", 250 pages with fold outs. Treatise on use of & techniques for the band saw. Xlnt condition $6.00 #24 Popular Woodworking Magazine: Issue #s 24, 25, 27, 31-34, 38-41, 43-48, 51 & 53. 19 issues total - $10.00/all #25 The Woodworkers Journal: Issue #s: Vol. 8 #1 & #6: Vol 9 #1-4 & 2ea. of #6: Vol. 10 #1-4, 2ea. of #5 & 2ea. of #6: Vol. 11 #1, 2ea. of #2, #3: Vol. 13 #1 & #2. 22 magazines total - $10.00/all ++++ End of thread 18852 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18853 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42657 (thread 18853) ---- From: Lootens, Rob Date: 1998-05-04 11:09:00 Subject: For Sale 5-04-98 Greetings Gentle Galoots, Welcome to another Flea Market Monday. I have several new items for sale as well as some elusive tools that I'm making available this month. I'm liquidating many of my 20th century tools to make room for some 19th century Wood Planes. "Standard Leach" terms apply. I only send via United States Postal Service. Shipping IS included in all of the prices. Thanks again to all of you who purchased tools from me. I look forward to serving you. Sincerely, Rob Lootens Utica, Michigan FOR SALE 5-04-98 Rabbet Planes Item 1 Stanley # 90 Bullnose Rabbet Plane, AA Logo, 99% nickel, little used if at all, EXCELLENT condition $100 PostPaid Item 2 Stanley # 92 Cabinet Makers Rabbet Plane, BB Logo, 95% nickel, little used if at all, EXCELLENT condition $125 Post Paid Item 3 Stanley # 94 Cabinet Makers Rabbet Plane, Type 1, 50% nickel, PAT'D blade 3-13-1900, near original length, GOOD ++ condition, $280 PostPaid. Item 4 Stanley # 140 Rabbet and Block Plane, Type 2, all original parts, 80% japan, 90% nickel, An early and gorgeous example of this exotic Block plane. GOOD ++ condition. $140 PostPaid. Item 5 Stanley # 79 Side Rabbet Plane, WWII Type with older semicircular cutout, BB Logo blades, 90% japan, GOOD+ condition, $80 PostPaid Item 6 Stanley # 78 Duplex Rabbet and Filletster Plane, Type 1 complete with all original parts, 85% japan, GOOD $50 PostPaid. Block Planes Item 7 Stanley # 100 Block Plane, with squirrel tail, Y Logo Sweetheart blade, as found, will clean to GOOD +, $45 PostPaid. Item 8 Union # 103 School Boy Block Plane, same as one shown on top of page 36 of Garret Hacks "HandPlane Book", great shape, 60% japan $35 PostPaid. Bench Planes Item 8 Stanley # 7C, Jointer Plane, as found, this low knob beauty will clean to GOOD +, 95% of original finishes, $80 PostPaid. Item 9 Stanley # 4C, Type 11, Q Logo iron, nice low knob, someone long ago blasted the main body and repainted it; however it is still in great shape and a terrific user. $28 PostPaid. Item 10 Millers Falls # 11 Jack Plane, MINT and in the Box, this one is actually nicer than the one Paddy has on view at his website, the box top and label is GOOD ++ but the inner box is taped, resulting in just a GOOD rating. This super shiny chrome, bright candyapple red tote and knob beauty can grace your shop for $125 PostPaid. Combination Planes Item 11 Stanley # 46 Skew Cutter Combination Plane, Type 10 with rosewood fence, 90% nickel and exceptional wood all around, cutters are complete except for the 13/16 in a plain wood blade box without a label (looks original) GOOD + condition, $175 PostPaid. Scraper Planes Item 12 Stanley # 12 Veneer Scraper, Type 2, B casting, complete and original, brass is unbuffed, 85% japan, SR&L Co. arched logo on blade, gorgeous rosewood handle with nearly 95% original finish, a GOOD+ example of this early scraper. $110 PostPaid. Item 13 Stanley # 81 Cabinet Scraper, 90% nickel, unused AA Logo blade (from the M of A), rosewood base is in excellent condition, will clean to GOOD+ $100 PostPaid. Item 14 Stanley # 70 Box Scraper, Early Type, near original length blade Type T Logo, as found, will clean to GOOD+ $35 PostPaid. Item 15 Stanley # 82 Cabinet Scraper, Type 1, superb wood all around, Y logo Sweetheart blade, 85% japan, only apology is a crack in the brass ferrule otherwise GOOD+ condition, $40 PostPaid Spokeshaves Item 16 Stanley # 53 Adjustable Mouth Spoke Shave, 75% japan, V Logo blade is near original length, a superb user, complete and GOOD condition, $25 PostPaid. Item 17 Stanley # 54 Adjustable Mouth Spoke Shave, 50% japan, J Logo blade is near original length, complete and GOOD condition, a superb user, $25 PostPaid I will take $45 for both of the above to one buyer. Items 18 Stanley # 28 and # 29 Cornering Tools, unused, BB Logo, EXCELLENT condition, the pair $35 PostPaid. Thank you for your interest. ++++ End of thread 18853 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18854 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42658 (thread 18854) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-04 15:25:00 Subject: WTB Bergs / Mathieson If this turns up to be a double...hit delete now.... haven't seen my own lists appear (posted at 4:00 a.m. this morning...aaarrgghh Want to Buy List MATHIESON H&Rs type 13 # 7 : 8c Auger bits marked BAILEY BIT I especially need sizes #5 and #15 to complete a boxed set and would be willing to pay a premium for them. Auger bits marked only RUSSELL JENNINGS with fine lead screws in sizes #8 / 11 / 15 Auger bits marked RJ-100 in sizes #8 and 9 (only the super spiffy need apply) Russell Jennings bits in sizes over #16 Eskilstuna (Eric Anton Berg) chisels (esp larger sizes / tang type) Stanley 921 Braces in 6, 12 and 14 inch swings Stanley chisels: 750's in sizes 3/8 : 1 3/4 : 2 arch type leather punches in sizes 1/2 inch and up ++++ End of thread 18854 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18855 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42659 (thread 18855) ---- From: David Woodham Date: 1998-05-04 15:25:00 Subject: WTB Greetings, I picked up a No 48 this weekend that is in need of the two small irons. It is an older one with the wayward ivy on the tote if this maters. Thanks in advance, Dave ++++ End of thread 18855 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18856 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42660 (thread 18856) ---- From: Dave Hucaby Date: 1998-05-04 13:51:00 Subject: WTB - Preston tools & catalog I'm interested in giving Preston tools a good home. I'm most interested in a Preston shoulder plane and a router, but others are welcome too. Also, I'm looking for a Preston catalog reprint (grey cover) that Ken Roberts might have done. This one is prior to the popular 1909 reprint (yellow cover) that I already have. If you have the grey book and don't want to sell it, would you consider selling me a photocopy of it? Thanks much, Dave Hucaby dave@i... Lex, KY ++++ End of thread 18856 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18857 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42661 (thread 18857) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 12:13:00 Subject: FS - 4/4 rough Birch. Sorry for the second FS post, but I forgot to mention for Galoots in the NH, MA area (others that like to drive) I have some 4/4 rough Birch for sale. It's been air dried for over 18 months and it is now in my shed. It ranges in width from about 4 to 7 inches (there may be a few 8") and about 8 feet long. It's all native NH species mixed between white, black and yellow birch, but mostly yellow. I have about 300 bf to sell. Price - $.50/bf or if you want it all we could talk. Located in Sandown, NH which is about 15 mile southeast of Manchester. Thanks, Steve ++++ End of thread 18857 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18858 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42663 (thread 18858) ---- From: Brendler Date: 1998-05-04 12:21:00 Subject: FS: Yet More Marking Gages The following items from my collection are for sale. Prices do not include shipping. - Goodell-Pratt #222 3-Armed Marking Gage (G+) - $75 A superb user gage in excellent condition, with beat-to-hell original box (box poor, but label good). Has pizza-wheel style cutters on 8", 4", and 3" arms (graduated in 32nds!), with a heavy hexagonal head. - Stanley #61 Marking Gage (G+) - $10 A real beaut, with a couple of tiny chips on the beech (not boxwood) thumbscrew being the only detraction. This one has the notched rectangle logo, and remnants of the original price tag. - Stanley #65 Marking Gage (G+) - $30 A spiffy example of Stanley's most common marking gage. This one has a short pin and a couple of tiny chips around the top of the pin hole, but otherwise is in great condition. - Stanley #165 Marking Gage (G-) - $40 A marking gage with Stanley's patented face plate for marking convex or concave curves as well as straight surfaces. It is a beautiful piece, but has an old repair. The head has cracked on one side of the arm hole, which was nicely repaired with a countersunk brass machine screw. Note that this is *marked* as #165, with a nice patina, "Sweetheart" logo, and sharp markings. If not for the repair, this is a G+ tool. It still displays nicely, and would make a fine "user". - Stanley #71 Marking/Mortise Gage (G) - $30 A very early version of the classic 2-armed wooden gage, with nice dark patina. It has some toolbox wear on the corners of the head and arms, and could use a good cleaning, but the graduations are clear and the points appear to be full-length. - Stanley #90 Marking Gage (G) - $12 A nice example of Stanley's simplest metal marking gage. This one is pre-WWI, with an unusual mark on the screw reminiscent of the "T" marking on plane irons. This one may have been sandblasted in a prior life, as the head shows a slight copper hue. - Stanley #98 Marking/Mortise Gage (G+) - $40 Stanley's classic 2-armed pizza-wheel gage. This is a WWI-era tool, with the gothic script casting and a "V" logo on one nut. Nickel is nearly perfect on the arms, and much better than average on the head (missing mostly on ends). Both points and wheels are sharp and in perfect condition, and wheels turn freely. The only knock on this one is that some numb-nuts added slots to the lock screws (at least he did a nice job at it). - Stanley #95-1/2 Butt Gage (G) - $40 This is the rarest of Stanley's butt gages, produced for only a few years before WW-I (1911-1917). This particular one is in nice shape, with ~75% of the nickel there (missing mostly on the ends), and a "V" logo on one knob. ++++ End of thread 18858 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18859 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42664 (thread 18859) ---- From: Jim Cook Date: 1998-05-04 11:23:00 Subject: FS Jim Cook's tool list 5/4 (updated 5/4) - I've reduced some prices if you want to check out the entire list. Note* - My email at work is really flaky sometimes, so if you're replying, and don't get through, you may want to try 'j.cook@g...' These tools are mostly users, and they *will* be clean (not overcleaned, I use steel wool and wd-40 mostly, though I will use electrolysis for extreme rust). The most you should need to do is sharpen the cutter, and in some (but not all) cases I will have done that as well. Conditions, terms, disclaimers and philosophy are at the end of the list so you don't have to wade throught it; you can get right to the tools. ** Newly added ** () Millers Falls #10 - 10" smoother with 2-3/8" wide cutter, like a Stanley #4-1/2. Japanning near 100%, nickel on the patented hinged lever cap about 95%. The tote was cracked and reglued, but it was a clean job. The tote tip is intact. The metal is in good shape. The original cutter has a full 2" of length. The finish on the wood is rough. $85. () Stanley #12 scraper type 1, Japanning complete except at the upper edges. Full length cutter (but not the original with corners at 45 degrees). In really nice shape. $130. () Stanley 4-1/2 type 17. Black plastic depth adjust knob, no frog adjuster. Kidney lever cap. Beech in good shape, wood is intact, the finish on the knob is a little rough. Japanning 95%, over 2" left on cutter. $70 () Stanley #6 type 17-18, nickel perfect on kidney lever cap, japanning 95%. 1-1/2" left on cutter. The finish is worn on the beech knob and tote and the tip of the tote is missing, though the break appears recent. The metal is in nice shape. $45. () Stanley #4 type 9, Japanning only about 35-40%, rosewood very good good cutter length. sole lapped flat. Excellent user. $35. ** Books ** (434) Fine Woodworking, issues #86 through #124 complete. I'd like to sell these as a set. $85. ** Specialty and other ** (275) Stanley #10 Jack Rabbet type 6 (1890's) with graceful thin sides, date in depth adjuster knob. The wood is perfect, unusual style cutter (the screw goes through cap iron into the cutter, instead of through the cutter into the cap iron) retains most of its original length and though pitted at the top, is flat backed, sharp at the business end and ready to cut rabbets. Japanning is very poor to non-existant, light pitting on the sides, though not very much. An excellent user at $110. (431) Stanley #55. Mostly complete except for parts listed below. Comes in a very nice user made box (it looks like cherry) with user made blade holder containing a complete set of 54 cutters (plus the slitter). Four of the cutters have pitting, but not at the cutting edges. Nickel is missing in the usual places along the tops of surfaces, but the plane is rust free. The adjustable fence has a small chip out of one end, but it's not where it will affect its function. Parts missing: short rods, Auxillary Center bottom (#40), Angle itron & adjusting screws (#42), Beading stop (#73), Sliding section depth gauge (#77). The price reflects the missing parts. $245. (206) Unmarked (but I think it's a Sterns) scraper, like a Stanley #80. Most of the Japanning is gone, but the metal is clean. Cutter included. $25. ** Jack Planes and Fore Planes ** (9) Stanley #5 type 17 jack. Rosewood knob and tote, high knob, wood in great shape. WWII era, no frog adjustment, black rubber/plastic depth adjusting knob. has a really nice casting, japanning better than 90%, 2" left on sharp notched rectangle iron. $40.(reduced 3/12) (397) Stanley #5-1/4 Junior Jack. The casting is from the '30's, with rosewood tote, "hardwood" knob. The frog fits and works, but the lateral lever is the single piece of metal with the end twisted, instead of the standard Stanley adjust lever. Japanning is about 60%. The sole has a couple of pits about 1/2" across, that appear to be from splatters of acid instead of rust as there's no evidence of pitting anywhere else. These are in places that should have no affect on planing. 1-7/8" remains on Sweetheart cutter. The plane looks good, in spite of the mismatches in parts, and should plane well. $40 (402) Seigley 14" Jack plane, "No 8" pre-Stanley. Note: Good only for display, NOT a user as it has some fatal flaws preventing use. This is a good plane to put on the shelf for folks to look at. It has interesting features, among them being Siegley's version of the adjustable mouth, and a fixed frog. Thin, corrugated sole, beech knob and checkered tote. The tote was cracked then screwed back together, I've repaired this by removing the screw and gluing it back together, but there's a hole remaining where the screw was. I don't remember if this plane is in PTAMPIA. Flaw #1 - The tote is only held in place by the front screw - the receiver in the sole for the tote bolt has been drilled out. It could be fixed with a threaded insert epoxied in place. Flaw #2 - a 3" long crack along one of the corrugations at the back left corner of the sole, this could probably be repaired by brazing, but that's not something I know how to do. Because of the flaws, this plane is $45 (reduced 4/15). ** Jointers ** (439) Sargent 424. 24" jointer (like a Stanley #8), has VBM lever cap and 2-3/8" on the VBM cutter. The japanning is as good as it gets at about 95-98%, and the mahogany knob and tote are flawless. ASA stamped his initials on the cutter, the cap iron, and along the back of the right side. The only apology is a big 3/8" hanging hole centered about 1" from the front of the sole. $110. (414) Sargent 424 (24" jointer like a Stanley #8), About 90% japanning, a full 2" on the original cutter. Sole shows little wear. High knob, no frog adjuster. Wood in great shape, the tote could use refinishing, but all the wood is intact with no chips or cracks. The knob appears to be rosewood, the tote mahogany. $95 (reduced 3/11) (297) Stanley #7 type 7 (1893-1899)), low knob, right hand thread depth adjuster, all wood intact. Cutter is newer than original (notched rectangle), but with good length. Japanning about 60-70%. $60. ** Metal smoothers ** () Stanley 4-1/2 type 9. The tote was been reglued (not a great job but ok) before I got it. The tote tip is intact. Japanning about 70%. The cutter is sharp and the plane is ready to work. $75. (164b) Stanley #4 type 20. Blue finish almost perfect. Metal is also very clean. Round top cutter with 1-7/8" remaining, two piece stamped depth adjusting yoke. Tote is rosewood, the knob is "hardwood" (beech). I suspect the knob is not original. $30. (427) Union #4 size smoother. Wood (beech) in excellent shape, nice thick cutter with 1-1/2" remaining. Finish is about 60%. $45. (415) Sargent 410 (10" smoother like a Stanley #4-1/2), Japanning about 75%, a full 2" left on Sargent cutter. High knob, no frog adjuster. The wood (mahagony) is nearly perfect except for chunk is missing from top of tote's horn, but nothing is missing from underside of the horn, so the grip is still comfortable and the profile of the tote is intact. $80. ** Transitionals ** (168) Sargent 3418 VBM transitional 18" jointer. Missing the very tip of the tote, but has enough to function and be comfortable to hold. The sole is dead flat, I totally refinished the body (sorry purists, it really needed the help). It now has no patina, but the beech in it's new state really looks pretty, and the plane is ready to use. $35. (96) Sargent 3415 transitional jack. knob and tote intact, finish is original, in pretty good though not perfect shape, the sole is flat. $35 ** Wooden Planes ** () Auburn 180 #8 5/8" hollow. small chip at the right front edge of the sole, and a couple of toolbox dings. Otherwise in good shape with nice patina. $14. () Auburn 1-7/8" rabbet, "1 8 1" stamped on the heel, owned at one time by JWMcCALL. Medium chip at right front edge of the sole. Has two small screw holes and evidence in the patina that a fence was attached to the right side at some past time. $14. ************** Disclaimers, conditions, terms: I attempt accurate descriptions, but if I'm not clear, please ask. Some of these tools were dirty or rusty when I got them, the cleaning has been done gently to leave as much of the original condition as is possible, though I will remove rust, paint spots and dirt. A few have required electrolysis, others had splits in the totes which I reglued (then stripped off the old finish, tung oiled, and waxed). Some have marginal japanning, or no patina (because I used electrolysis to remove rust). Others are nearly perfect. I sharpen some of these, but that isn't a given. I'll note if there's pitting on the sole or cheeks. Unless noted, the sole should be reasonably flat. On the electrolyzed planes, if the japanning is totally gone, I'll note if I put on a couple of coats of black glossy rustoleum, which won't be at all confused with proper japanning, but will preserve the metal from re-rusting and look reasonably good as well. I won't send out anything with serious flaws (irrepairable problems, like cracked or broken castings). I'll let you know if a sole needs to be lapped, whether the tote is cracked and refinished, and whether I've done repairs, no matter how good a job I thought I did. Nothing goes out without cleaning. I won't put "dirty, rusty, covered with smutz, but will clean up to fine+" on my list. I've discovered serious flaws hiding under "patina", and don't trust what I can't see. Also, I'd like you to open something that feels like a Christmas present, clean, ready to sharpen and make shavings with. Two sets of terms: If you're not on the oldtools listserv: Prices do not include shipping. I prefer payment via check or money order, for price of tool plus estimated shipping. Then I'll ship the tool out to you. If there are any problems with the tool you discover within three weeks after I've shipped it, send it back to me for full refund of your original check amount. That means if you don't like it, I eat the shipping to you, and you pay for the shipping back to me. If you are on the oldtools listserv: Shipping and payment "standard oldtool" terms. You order, I'll ship, and if you find the tool acceptable, you pay amount of tool plus amount of shipping from where I live (in the Boston area) to where you live. If you don't find the tool okay, you pay shipping back to me. Best Regards, I hope you find something you like. Jim Cook Newton, MA ++++ End of thread 18859 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18860 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42666 (thread 18860) ---- From: La Pill Date: 1998-05-04 08:39:00 Subject: WTB: #8 lever cap, chipbreaker, blade I desparately need a levercap, chipbreaker and screw for a #8. (I think it's a type 10 but type for the parts doesn't matter.) A blade that is not pitted on the back would be great too, but at least that is something I can buy from Ron H or LN. If you've got these #8 parts sitting around somewhere, take pity on my sad #8c and help it feel complete and useful! Thanks, Bill ++++ End of thread 18860 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18861 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42667 (thread 18861) ---- From: Ken Greenberg Date: 1998-05-04 15:45:00 Subject: FS - Boring equipment Call it spring cleaning in the land of boring yard sales, but I've been finding some new old boring tools around. There are also a few items left over from last year's yard sales, so after selecting the missing bits I needed, I'm selling off the duplicates. Bits have been cleaned with WD-40 and 0000 steel wool, usually just so I could get rid of surface rust and read the logos. In all honesty, I'm just getting real tired of looking at some of this stuff, so I've reduced prices on the leftovers. Standard oldtools term apply. -Ken "I'll buy anything with a tang" Brace of the month ================== Stanley #923 10 inch reversable ratcheting brace. Well used, but in good condition. Would make a good user. $10 Matched Set of Augers ===================== Set of six matched Lakeside Irwin-style auger bits, still in their canvas roll. Set includes numbers 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 16 - just what you need to get started as a boring galoot. They have been well-used, but they are still bright and shiny, since they seem to have been put away clean after use. (Wish my user set was this nice.) Belonged to an 83-year-old galoot who was having a divorce sale. (Some questions are best left unasked....) $18 Countersink =========== I seem to have two of these, so clearly some other boring galoot should have one. This is a 1/2 inch countersink, stamped "MAYHEW." This looks like what Bernard Jones calls a brass countersink in "Practical Woodworker" - it has many cutting edges, running from the edge to the center like spokes of a wheel. I don't know why you couldn't use it for wood or metal, though. $1. Twist Drills ============ Got enough augers? Well, you can't have too many oldtools, so perhaps you need to start building a set of twist drill bits to use with your brace. These look similar to modern twist drill bits for power tools, but have tangs. All in good shape, all about 5 inches long. Most have a cutting angle of about 118 degrees like a drill bit for a power drill. $1.00 each. TD1 - Syracuse 3/16 inch, cutting angle about 90 degrees TD2 - Wards Master 1/4 inch TD3 - Morse 5/16 inch TD4 - No-name 5/16 inch TD5 - Morse 3/8 inch Auger bits ========== Irwin-style (1-twist, 2 cutter, med/coarse screw) augers. Mostly leftovers, so you can have any of these for $2 each. AB1 - #6 Greenley, mark "No. 22", 3/32 spurs AB2 - $7 HSBS Co., mark "Our Very Best", 3/32 spurs AB3 - #11 Irwin SPEEDBOR (single cutter), 4/32 spur AB4 - #11 unknown maker, stamped "economy", 5/32 spurs AB5 - #12 Keen Kutter (?), 4/32 spurs, has been wire brushed AB6 - #12 Clean Cut, 4/32 spurs AB7 - #14 Greenlee, 6/32 spurs AB8 - #14 Irwin MAINBOR style (modern logo), 5/32 spur, bright metal AB9 - #14 Irwin box logo, 3/32 spurs AB10 - #14 Irwin MAINBOR (box logo), 5/32 spurs, good Other Augers, not as easily categorized as above: AB11 - #11 Greenlee "No. 31" double twist, coarse threads, 3/32 spurs, clean - $2 AB12 - Adjustable bit, 7/8 to 1 3/4, no makers stamp, bright metal -$3 AB13 - Adjustable bit, 7/8 to 1 3/4, "CLAR(K?) ConVALco Expansive USA", very clean - $3 Bottom Feeder's Specials ======================== Normally, these would just be saved for garage sales, but I just know there are some really cheap galoots out there (me being one of them). If you just want to make holes and don't mind auger bits that need a little work, you can have these for $1.00 apiece. The description explains why they are in this category. BF1 - #5 Irwin style, quite rusty (needs electrolysis?), unknown maker, looks OK, too lazy to clean these up so I'm selling them as-is (I have two). BF2 - #7 Russell Jennings, spurs & cutters OK, tip broken & refiled, works OK BF3 - #8 No name Irwin style auger, spurless, cutters OK, tip broken BF4 - #8 Rahls Mfg., R-J style auger, spurs worn, cutter & tip OK, shaft slightly bent BF5 - #10 Vulcan Irwin-style auger, spurs bent in at tips, otherwise OK BF6 - #11 Caldwell-Lightening, 2-twist auger w/coarse lead screw, only 1 spur, cutters OK, tip broken. Has been wire-brushed. BF7 - #12 No name R-J style auger, spurs worn, some pitting, nick in 1 cutter, tip broken. Good fishing weight. BF8 - #16 Irwin - a project. Stamped "The Irwin Bit/PAT OCT 2..../ IMP'D APR 1...". One spur has tip broken off, cutters need to be filed back about 1/16 inch, but no pitting and the tip is in good shape. BF9 - Clean Cut adjustable bit with missing moving cutter. If you have a cutter about 1/4 inch high, this one might be useful to you. Ken Greenberg IT #321; Blue Galoot #82 400 Los Gatos Blvd., Los Gatos, CA 95032 ++++ End of thread 18861 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18862 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42668 (thread 18862) ---- From: John Crum Date: 1998-05-04 08:59:00 Subject: FS: Goodell-Pratt Mitre Box GG's, Got just this item FS: Goodell-Pratt Mitre Box. Don't know much about G-P tools, So I'll describe in excruciating detail. E-mail me if you need more. This one is marked No.1 305 A, Made in USA, Greenfield, Mass. The bed is 19.5" long by 4.5" wide. The surface of the bed is like a monster file- canted 45 deg with the fence, teeth facing the saw. The fence is a wavy bit of steel. This one may have a few parts missing- such as a bar that connects the two uprights (there is a provision for securing such), and perhaps stop rods, etc. The feet seem to be arc welded on in the front- but this might be original as there are no other means of attaching the feet in the front. Otherwise, it is complete and usable. Comes with a bad-*ss back saw- a full 30" long Henry Disston and Sons (as stamped on spine) with Disston medalion, which is in good shape (sharp fangs) with only a bit of rust well up from the teeth. I'm asking $50 (plus shipping, which I think will be about $15) -or trade for something good of equal value (looking for SW Stanley planes and some other junk). SOT terms if I know you. John Crum Sun Diego (except for the past few days where it has threatened to rain but has not really- just a prelude to June gloom. Oh, and the waves are awesome, dude.) ++++ End of thread 18862 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18863 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42669 (thread 18863) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-04 16:08:00 Subject: WTB: Irons for homemade plane(s) I need plane irons, and I'd like to start by just asking for irons with "Cast Steel" imprinted on them - British or American, I don't care. Width is also not an issue, but I'm only interested in full length or nearly full-length irons. Pre WWII is best. If you have one or more, and give me your price, I'll consider it. Thanks to any responders. Steve ++++ End of thread 18863 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18864 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42670 (thread 18864) ---- From: Dnbyr Date: 1998-05-04 12:08:00 Subject: WTB Stanley Items & More Hi, GG's: This month I'm seeking: Stanley Sweetheart Marking & Mortise Gauges, new or near new. Stanley Sweetheart tools, fine to new+. Stanley Sweetheart no. 2 and 3 planes, good+ and better. Stanley transitional planes in fine to new condition, '92 patent on cutter. Stanley tools in early green paper boxes. No. 3 size planes featuring patents other than those of Leonard Bailey, especially early and rare. Ivory and boxwood folding rules in mint condition. Pretty or unusual iron or exotic wood levels, 12" and under, also a minty 24" Davis inclinometer. Sargent or Winchester iron dado planes (similar to Stanley 39 series). Any small or medium-sized tools with great visual appeal. I pay well for great tools! Thanks, Don ++++ End of thread 18864 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18865 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42674 (thread 18865) ---- From: Deryck Harnett Date: 1998-05-04 10:23:00 Subject: FS: Chisels GGs, I have some chisels to sell, since I find that I have more than I would ever need (but also not enough cash to buy what I want). They are a mixed group, in good user condition or better except where noted. Swan - 1" bevel sided socket, 4 3/4" blade, split handle $16.00 - 3/8 square sided socket, 4 14" blade, no handle 13.00 Pexto - 1/2" bevel sided socket, 5" blade 14.00 HIbbard, Bartlett- 3/4" bevel sided socket, 5 1/2 blade, no handle 13.00 Jennings, Griffin- 1 1/4"square sided socket, 3" blade no handle, 15.00 needs work, but lots of steel Union - 1/2" square sided socket, 6" blade, no handle, socket needs work 12.00 noname - 9/16" square sided socket, 5 1/2" blade, no handle 9.00 noname - 3/4" bevel sided socket, no handle 10.00 I would sell all 8 together, for $75.00. Also there are 2 Japanese fishtail chisels, 12 mm at $19.00 and 22 mm at 22.00. SOT apply. Thanks for considering my list. Deryck Harnett ++++ End of thread 18865 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18866 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42675 (thread 18866) ---- From: Ron Hock Date: 1998-05-04 18:27:00 Subject: FS Blades and Such for Planes and More Hock Handmade Knives 16650 Mitchell Creek Dr. Fort Bragg, CA 95437 (707) 964-2782 fax (707) 964-7816 Email ron@h... Toll Free: (888) 28- BLADE or (888) 282-2533 "E-Brochure" and Price List Effective 9/1/97 Hey! Visit our Web page at http://www.hocktools.com It's not much but we call it home. Newish Stuff: We now offer replacement blades for the Stanley #112/12 and #80/81 Scraper Planes. The blades for the #12/112 are 3/32" thick X 2 7/8" wide X 5" long; for the #80/81, they're 1/16" X 2 1/2" X 3" long. Both are beveled at 45 degrees and are hardened for a balance of long edge life and burr "rollability" (you do have one of our burnishers, don't you?) For the #12/112 #SB112 $22.00 For the #80 #SB080 $16.00 For the #81 #SB081 $16.00 Marking Knife Blades! This is a right- or left-handed spear-point marking knife (the bevels are on one side only) perfect for scribing fine lines against a straight edge. This is a blade only; you make the handle. #MK075 3/32 x 3/4 x 7" $20.00 Blades for Wooden Spokeshaves! These replacements for the Conover blade have all the advantages ("sharpenability", edge-holding, etc.) of our other blades. They're 1/8" thick X 5/8 wide X 4" long, with the threaded posts and brass thumb nuts. We'll include the plans for making the wooden spokeshave as soon as John gets them spiffied up. #SB062 $22.00 Same Ol' (Really Great) Stuff: PLANE IRON ASSEMBLIES These blades were developed in collaboration with the faculty and staff at James Krenov's Fine-Woodworking studio here in Fort Bragg. 3-1/2" long by 3/16" thick, they won't deflect or chatter under the toughest use. Designed specifically for the finely-tuned handmade wooden plane, these irons are unbeatable. They come complete with 1/8" chip-breaker and assembly screw. Straight-Edge: 1" wide #PI100 $26.00 1-1/4" #PI125 $27.00 1-1/2" #PI150 $30.00 1-3/4" #PI175 $32.00 2" #PI200 $33.00 Radius-Edge: 1-1/4" x 4" radius #PR125 $30.00 1-1/2" x 5" radius #PR150 $32.00 1-3/4" x 6" radius #PR175 $33.00 PLANE KIT Our precision made kit provides a quick, sure way to realize the satisfaction of using a handmade wooden plane. Complete with a HOCK Plane-Iron Assembly, all you need is a drill, some clamps, a knife to adjust the throat, sandpaper (or plane) to true the sole, and a means of sharpening the iron. A HOCK kit is ideal for the novice as well as the professional woodworker who can't find the time to make a plane (or another one or two...) Our design is a basic Krenov-style, flat-bottom wooden plane -- simple and elegant. We use Rock Maple for the body and Jarah (or other suitable hardwood, depending on availability) for the sole. 1-3/4" Iron Width x 11" Finished Length #KF175 $69.00 PLANS If you're ready to make your own plane but are uncertain about the exact dimensions and angles, our full-scale plans will help you succeed. Flat-Bottom (Iron Width x Finished Length): 1-1/4" x 6" #FB125 $3.00 1-1/2" x 9" #FB150 $3.00 1-3/4" x 11" #FB175 $3.00 Round-Bottom: 1-1/4" x 6" #RB125 $3.00 1-1/2" x 8" #RB150 $3.00 1-3/4" x 10" #RB175 $3.00 Rabbet Plane: 1" x 6" #RP100 $3.00 All Seven Plans #PLANS $18.00 REPLACEMENT BLADES These blades offer a substantial improvement over the inferior "chrome-vanadium" blades that come with most contemporary tools. Our high-carbon tool steel blades can be honed easier and SHARPER. The difference will be obvious as soon as you start honing and will impress you as you use the blade. We guarantee them to be better! For BENCH PLANES we offer four standard widths. They're 7" long, 3/32" thick (17% thicker than "stock" blades,) have the traditional "keyhole" slot, and fit most planes. With a little work and a proper blade, those cast-iron planes can be tuned-up and made to perform beautifully. Flatten the sole, adjust the frog so the throat opening is no more than necessary, sharpen your new blade like a razor, and your plane will make "see-through" shavings and satin surfaces. 1-3/4" wide #BP175 $26.00 2" #BP200 $27.00 2-3/8" #BP238 $29.00 2-5/8" #BP262 $31.00 It seems the BLOCK PLANE is the workhorse of many cabinet shops. Although taken for granted, this is a very handy and versatile tool. And, like the larger bench planes, it responds will to a little of the same TLC described above. These blades are 4-1/4" long with oval center slot and machined adjusting "rack". For Record and American Stanley with 7/16" wide slot: 1-3/8" wide #BL138 $22.00 1-5/8" #BL162 $23.00 For English Stanley with 5/8" wide slot: 1-3/8" wide #BW138 $22.00 1-5/8" #BW162 $23.00 Perhaps the most dramatic improvement can be realized by accurizing and tuning your SPOKESHAVE. It's a mediocre tool as it comes from the factory, but with a quality blade and a little fussing, it becomes a versatile and sensitive tool capable of doing fine work. The Kunz adjustable-throat model needs to be disassembled at the "hinge" to facilitate the installation of our thicker blade, but the results are worth the effort. Kunz-Style, with open "U" slot: 1-3/4" wide #SP175 $15.00 2" #SP200 $16.00 Stanley and Record Style with the "dog-bone" shaped adjuster slots: 2-1/8" wide (#151 Style) #SP151 $20.00 VIOLIN KNIVES We offer three sizes of chip-carving blades suggested by the late master violin-maker, Hans Weisshaar. These knives are beveled on both sides (not one side like a marking knife) and are sold as blades only, no handles. 1/16" x 1/4" x 7" tip=10degrees, bevel=35degrees #VK025 $16.50 1/16" x 1/2" x 7" tip=25degrees, bevel=20degrees #VK050 $17.00 3/32" x 3/4" x 7" tip=25degrees, bevel=25degrees #VK075 $18.00 BURNISHERS Our burnishers are hardened (Rc64) and polished tool-steel rods that stand up well to constant use on scraper edges. Most others are not hard enough for this demanding application. 3/8" x 6" #BR375 $11.00 CUSTOM BLADES Yes, we make blades according to your specifications. Please send or fax a sketch with necessary specifics and we'll let you know if we can, how much, and how long it will take. FINE PRINT We accept checks in U.S. funds, Mastercard or Visa (include Expiration date and a daytime phone number), and C.O.D. We charge $7.00 per U.S. order of any size for shipping and handling (C.O.D. charges are an additional $4.75.) International shipping charges will be added as necessary. California customers please add 7.25% sales tax, a small price to pay to live in such a great state. We try to keep stock of everything but it could (and sometimes does) take 6 to 8 weeks to ship your order. Custom work can take (and has taken) even longer. My father used to say "you can have it good, fast, or cheap. Pick two." Your satisfaction is completely GUARANTEED. ABOUT STEEL The three qualities that most effect the selection of a steel for hand-tool application are edge-holding, sharpenability, and corrosion-resistance. For metallurgical reasons, you can only have two of the three. We at HOCK HANDMADE feel that in woodworking, corrosion-resistance is the least important of the three, and prefer an edge that is easily sharpened and long lasting. A steel's carbon content determines its ability to harden with heat treatment. That hardness determines a tool's ability to hold a sharp cutting edge under abrasive pressure (wear). Generally, the harder the metal the better its edge holding, but it will be more brittle. Tempering reduces that brittleness, although it also reduces the tool's hardness and wear resistance. So a balance must be struck to decide how hard a blade should be. Our blades are hardened to Rc62 for long edge life. This is harder than most available replacement blades yet not as hard or brittle as most Japanese blades. "Tool Steel" refers to a class of steels that are metallurgically very "clean" and fall within strict limits for alloy proportions. Vanadium, tungsten, and molybdenum are often added to tool steels to make the steel resist annealing (softening) when used in "high-speed" (high heat) applications. Chromium is added in very large quantities for corrosion resistance ("stainless"). High-speed steels are essential in metal-working tools (drills, milling cutters, etc.) and "stainless" steels can be cost effective by resisting rust during the manufacture, shipping, and storage of the tool itself. Correctly heat-treated, tools made from high-speed, stainless, and "chrome-vanadium" steels may hold an edge well in woodworking applications, but, due to the large, hard carbide particles that form during hardening, they are difficult to sharpen and cannot be honed as sharply as a blade of plain high-carbon steel. Our choice of High-Carbon Tool-Steel (.95% Carbon) offers the finest, sharpest edge possible. Its chromium and vanadium additions amount to only 1/2% each allowing quick, clean honing with traditional techniques. High-carbon steel holds and takes an edge better than anything else. We guarantee it. A Little About Us: We've been at this since 1981, starting out making knives and doing the craftsfair gigs, which has got to be the toughest marketing work in the world. The staff and students at James Krenov's Fine Woodworking Program at the College of the Redwoods here in Fort Bragg convinced me to re-tool to make plane irons for them. Turns out woodworkers are an easy market to target (one or two small ads in Fine Woodworking Magazine got us started) and are very appreciative of better-quality tools, too. Well, one thing led to another and here we are, all these years later making five or six thousand blades per year and not one kitchen knife. We are a small metalworking cottage industry located in the middle of Mendocino's renowned woodworking enclave. Our tools are handcrafted to satisfy the demands of the most discriminating professional. Shaping, beveling, and slotting are done by hand-grinding and precision machining; mostly the dedicated efforts of Larry and Tim, "the Brothers Quality" (everyone should have a Larry and a Tim). We focus on the intended use of the item and work to facilitate that end. Little attention (or expense) is spent on "image" considerations such as packaging, promotional gimmicks, or non-functional cosmetics. The extra thickness of our blades offers superior stability, precise adjustment, and easier honing. High-carbon tool steel -- not "high speed" or "chrome vanadium" -- holds and takes a keener edge better than anything else we've tried. I guarantee it. Ron Hock Hock Handmade Knives -- Ron Hock Hock Handmade Knives (888)282-5233 fax (707)964-7816 16650 Mitchell Creek Drive Fort Bragg, CA 95437 http://www.hocktools.com ++++ End of thread 18866 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18867 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42676 (thread 18867) ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 1998-05-04 18:45:00 Subject: FS: Absolutely nothing this month Esteemed Galoots, I'm not selling anything this month because I'm seriously completing old furniture projects and I have to be on time for a new baby (he/she will not wait). This may actually take some time and I'll let you know when I start making saws again. Enjoy the rest of FMM, Eddie ----------------------------------------- Adria Tools - High Quality Dovetail Saws http://www.woodworking.com/adria/ ++++ End of thread 18867 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18868 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42677 (thread 18868) ---- From: Generations Furniture Date: 1998-05-04 19:18:00 Subject: FS: Planes, spokeshaves, etc. ---------- May list, hope you find something you like. Standard Old Tools Terms, you want, I ship, you like, you pay plus actual shipping. You don't like, you send back at your expense. I do try to describe accurately, if anything, under estimating condition. Most of this, I've had for a while. If you see something you like, let's talk. A couple of new items from the continuous search. Thanks for reading my list. PLANES: 4-1 Eclipse, made by Sargent, # 3 size, Tote broken and repaired, almost no varnish, 50% japanning, good blade, $15.00 4-2 Eclipse,#3 size, made by Sargent, good varnish, part decal on tote, 90% japanning, pitting on sole and right cheek which will not affect use, good blade. $18.50 DEAL: Take 'em both for $31.50 plus ship 4-3 Fulton, #4 size (Sargent made) 50% japanning, 40% varnish, light pitting on blade, sole and cheeks show wear, but still serviceable $15.00 4-4 Fulton, #4 size (Sargent made) handle repaired, front knob has a brass collar, good, unpitted blade. $10.00 DEAL: Take 'em both for $22.50 plus ship 4-5 Shelton, # 14, a little rough, but should clean to a good user, just surface crud and neglect. sole good, 2" of blade left. $22.50 4-6 Siegley, 18" CORRUGATED sole, half nickel chip out of cheek near toe, knob chipped around bottom, tote cracked at front screw, horn tip chipped, small crack from the mouth on one side only, 50% japanning, small hang hole in heel. None the less, an interesting plane, and only $35.00 DEAL: Take 4-5 and 4-6 for $50.00 plus ship 4-7 Millers Falls block plane (110 style) gray body, red hold-down, about 90% original. And only $22.50 4-8 Craftsman 78 style duplex. Gray, complete, 90% original finish, good blade, fence and depth stop. Nice, if you don't mind the name. $27.50 4-9 Stanley 113, typical wear, handle missing, good blade, no cracks or tears in sole. I tried to make this thing work and it's smarter than I am, so why don't you give it a try? $80.00 M-12 Stanley #78, looks like a repaint, no rust, has depth stop but no fence. $45.00 5-1 Stanley S5. Has apparently been in a school shop, with 3 names scratched on it. Wood could use a clean up. Surface rust, sole and cheeks mostly clean, jappaning mostly there, SW blade with good length, all correct. Could use a general cleaning. $100.00 5-2 Stanley # 7, SW, needs cleaning, little japanning, tote tip broken off, and cracked through down low. All there, needs TLC. $40.00 ================================================================ SPOKESHAVES ================================================================ Not this month ================================================================ DRAWKNIVES ================================================================ M-13 Shapleigh 4" drawknife, stained blade, needs a good sharpening, apparently repainted handles, $20.00 ================================================================ DRILLING STUFF ================================================================ 5-3 Merit push drill, needs oiling, plating good, no bits $7.50 5-4 Craftsman, different eggbeater. Fully enclosed turning system, all aluminum case and handle. There must have been a cap on the end, because it's threaded inside, but the end is gone. A neat and different tool. $6.75 That's it for this month. Hope there will be more next month. Thanks for reading. Bruce Z. ++++ End of thread 18868 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18869 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42678 (thread 18869) ---- From: sbmarcus Date: 1998-05-04 19:24:00 Subject: FS: Saws No old tools this month. Sold too well in the rain at Crane's to waste your time with a list of what's left. Instead a reminder to consider purchasing a Marcus & Clark traditional saw, proudly referred to as art that works. Images of these tools can be found at:http://www.eastconn.com/marcus/. Or j-peg images can be sent as e-mail attachments. We even ship photos by snail mail. Turning saw- The tool measures 23" long, handle to handle, and is 12 1/4" tall. The exposed length of the blade is 12 3/4". The body is birds-eye maple with cocobolo handles and tensioner, and brass fitments to hold the blade. The uprights are hand-carved with swans-neck finials. The rail is turned in bamboo style. It is supplied with one 1/4" blade, constructed from bandsaw stock, and I would be happy to provide others, of whatever size, for an additional price. The Tool is constructed with a unique joint holding the rail to the uprights, with a mortise and tenon joint seated in a socket with rounded shoulders. It is stained with aniline dye to bring out the figure and finished with three coats of shellac. It is entirely hand-made in my shop, and supplied ready to use, with a waxed twine tourniquet. The price is $200.00, plus shipping, which reflects the difficult and time-consuming nature of the construction. Delivery time should be less than one month from the receipt of order. Bow saw- We also now have available a Bow Saw made in the same manner as and designed like the Turning Saw, but slightly larger. It is 15 1/4" high, 31" long, has a depth of 6 3/4" between the blade and the rail, and takes a 20 3/4" blade. It is $250.00 plus shipping. The difference between these saws in use is that the turning saw is somewhat more useful for cutting out curved work, while the bow saw can be used more easily , due to its longer stroke, as a general- use bench saw. Coping and Fret saws- We also have available coping and fret saws, also based on an example of a saw we once owned. The Coping Saw measures 9 1/2" high, 15" wide and is 5" from blade to rail. The deep-throated Fret saw is 18" high, 15" wide and is 11 1/2" from blade to rail. Both saws are fitted to take standard 6 3/8" pinned coping saw blades, one of which is supplied with each saw. Both are made from strongly figured tiger maple with brass-ferruled, dark cocobolo handles on the fore side and tourniquet rod, and a hand-turned brass fitting on the rear that acts as a take-up screw to further adjust the blade tension beyond the adjustment made by the traditional cord and turned rod. The posts are finished with carved volute finials. The blade-holding shaft is steel. The Coping Saw is $135.00 plus shipping, the Fret Saw is $155.00 plus shipping. Delivery should be less than one month from receipt of order. Additionally available is an adaptable version of either which can be used with coping or jeweler's saw blades. This version is supplied with two different length rails and a blade-holding shaft that has a thumb-screw mechanism to hold the saw blades. The adaptable version of either can be had for an additional $45.00. The advantage of all these saws, in addition to their great beauty, is that it is possible with them to tension the blade much beyond what is possible with a standard metal-frame coping or deep-throat or jeweler's saw, and that it is much easier to turn the blade in the frame than is usual with modern versions. Bruce ++++ End of thread 18869 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18870 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42679 (thread 18870) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 19:47:00 Subject: WTB Denison H&Rs Item Subject: Text Item GGs, Still on the prowl for a couple of Denison Hs and Rs. I've had to amuse myself by picking up the odd Denison burfl just to keep in practice. That and trying to stay ahead of the Berg vacuum, Tom... So look around at your unused woodies and help a guy out. Thanks! Bruce Who is personally gonna rummage around under Tony's bench. There's GOT to be a flock of 'em under there! ---- Start of Message 42758 (thread 18870) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-05 21:10:00 Subject: Re: WTB Denison H&Rs At 03:47 PM 5/4/98 -0400, BRUCE_VANSLOUN@H... wrote: > > Who is personally gonna rummage around under Tony's bench. There's GOT > to be a flock of 'em under there! > You'd love to know what's hiding under my workbench.... But then, so would I. Tony ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Intercourse, PA ________________________________________________________ ++++ End of thread 18870 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18871 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42680 (thread 18871) ---- From: Richard Wilson Date: 1998-05-04 20:01:00 Subject: New girl on the bench. A new to me Norris arrived last week. Took it to the office. - thought we should 'become acquainted' as it were. Seeing it in daylight I think I'm falling in love. Rosewood infill. and I've realised that the mouth is wide because the sorby iron is thinner than a Norris. So gglad I could recognise that - so as not to dismiss it as a wide mouth hopeless case. (I think it warmed to me a little when it sensed me realise that, and forgive it its aperture.) A careless owner in a long ago life let it be dropped on its bun, which split at the rivet. A repair by adding a vertical woodscrew has been effected - the screw is now missing. I've promised her a new little rosewood 'striking button' to cover the hole. Tasteful, you understand, tasteful. When I mentioned the idea of cutting back the old finish on the rosewood and re-oiling and polishing she definitely purred. - Must be a female - just SO pretty. and a new, thick blade. Just aas soon as I can get some GFS. Maybe need to get a stamp made up with 'ARW' on it... And those cute dimples beside the tote. between the sides and the where the casting curves up the side of the tote. - they'll need refinishing. I wonder what the original colour should be? The operating knob is strangely small and fine after the rather butch A5, but the mechanism runs more smoothly. Yep, a little more polishing here and there, a touch of work to make her and I appreciate each other, and I think it could be for life... this could be a 'prised from cold dead fingers' plane... (They hate it when I anthropomorphise them...) Richard acknowledging the quote from Ernie.. ---- Start of Message 42736 (thread 18871) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-05 07:40:00 Subject: Re: New girl on the bench. Richard: > rosewood and re-oiling and polishing she definitely purred. - Must > be a female - just SO pretty. ... > And those cute dimples beside the tote. between the sides and the > where the casting curves up the side of the tote. - they'll need > refinishing. I wonder what the original colour should be? Sounds like you better just go for fleshtones. Gene ---- Start of Message 42771 (thread 18871) ---- From: Richard Wilson Date: 1998-05-06 05:55:00 Subject: Re: New girl on the bench. Eugene took a pointed stick to my daydream..... >Richard: >> rosewood and re-oiling and polishing she definitely purred. - Must >> be a female - just SO pretty. ... >> And those cute dimples beside the tote. between the sides and the >> where the casting curves up the side of the tote. - they'll need >> refinishing. I wonder what the original colour should be? >Sounds like you better just go for fleshtones. >Gene Nah - call me fickle, but I glued the split bun and moved on.. On to some macho turning and knurling to rescue that 41 I mentioned. Now *That's* pretty - the light gleaming off the knurled adjuster.. the repetitive play of the sun off the BSW threads.... And such a cute little body - toy like beside a full size Preston or Record 73. Richard ARWilson@c... always gets delivered somehow, somewhere. ++++ End of thread 18871 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18872 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42681 (thread 18872) ---- From: stuart minuskin Date: 1998-05-04 20:13:00 Subject: wtb i need the following items: small old anvils brass or iron sterns universal spokeshave a nice stanley no 1 handplane a blade for stanley 72 plane a nice #77 dowel cutter thats all this month stu ++++ End of thread 18872 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18873 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42682 (thread 18873) ---- From: DNRSchwartz Date: 1998-05-04 17:20:00 Subject: WTB Polishing up some stuff... I need: -Disston 5-7 tpi rip saw. User, with fingerhole and nib. -(and a spare saw nut for the similar Disston Crosscut I already have) -Tenon saw, 10-15 tpi rip. User. Steel baxk preferable for the price break - #10 1/2 Beater/user. I have a replacement tote and knob, so those could be wasted on yours. I'd prefer a decent user to trade for my #10 but didn't get a good response for bartering last FMM. If someone DOES happen to want to trade, my #10 is a type 7 (I think) 80% japanning, sound wood, 3/4" usable blade. It won't fit in my Jewett/Studley style Patternmaker's chest. (That's why I want a #10 1/2). -eggbeater drill. User, in good working order. Not too 'tinny' or cheaply made. -bits for my Miller Falls 'Buck Rodgers' push drill. I bet somebody can help me with something on this list. Don't go overboard offering the primo collector version of any of the above. I don't want the responsibility of a NIB. Chris N. Schwartz, Feral Brewer... Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he wastes a lifetime. http://mav.net/darc/prbc/ ++++ End of thread 18873 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18874 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42683 (thread 18874) ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 1998-05-04 21:42:00 Subject: Trip report buiding a lathe (long) Gentle Galoots, I was going to save this for tomorrow to avoid FMM traffic, but either my feed is slow, Cornell is having fun again, or you are all busy making instead of selling things, so here goes! I spent the weekend at Conover's Workshops at a 2 day class taught by Don Weber on building a lathe. This is basically the one built from building center supplies featured in the AW that came out in August 1996 (so by the logic of publishers was probably dated Oct or something), but with a bow and spool arrangement like one of the ones in Roy's book instead of the bungee cord. The trick is the bow tension is adjustable, unlike the bungee, and is documentably period for most re-enactors (slightly post period for SCA but SCA is more laid back about it). Originally it weas conceived as a pole lathe class, and somewhere in the planning the focus shifted to the bow as more portable. Don had also never been in Ernie's shop before, although they are obviously well acquainted, and Ernie was taking the class much like a student. The result was sort of like a very good cook cooking a fancy dinner in the kitchen of her good friend, also a good cook, but she has never seen the kitchen before. It works, but will work a lot more smoothly the second time around ;-) ;-) If you have seen the AW issue you have seen most of the lathe, 2 A frame shaped 2 x 4 ends holding up a pair of 2 x 6 ways, with glued up 2 x 4 poppets, all held together with carriage bolts and nuts. A 2 x 4 sliced lengthwise screwed to the A frames holds a crossbar over your head. In the AW version the bungee hangs from the crossbar, in the one we made a very large eyebolt in the middle of the cross bar holds a spokeshaved 5' length of hickory sapling tensioned by 4 lengths of 1/8' nylon rope running through a ~6" long and 2-3" diameter wooden spool with 4 lengthwise holes drilled through it. One hole crosswise holds the end of the rope that wraps around the work to drive it and you spin the spool to preload the tension on the bow when you set up the work. There are a couple of really good closeups of the same idea in one of Roy's books. When he was describing it, I noticed that he wasn't quoting Roy, but rather an obscure 1701 book in French that I had heard of once before that turned up in Roy's bibliography. Do any reference librarian types out there know of a source for L'arte du tourneur by Plumier? Or any reprints or translations of the same? Yes I read French... and would really like to look at the pictures too. I had spent a bunch of Christmas 1996 vacation trying to build the bungee cord version and never finished. I haven't gone downstairs to see what is different between the old one and this weekend, but I know that I was not as fussy about square and parallel making the poppets as I should have been. Also mine isn't cinched tight enough, mine was wobbly, this weekend's was not at all. We spent more time than predicted building so less time playing, but we had one running for a couple hours. I didn't get so much playing since I'm not so experienced with a 'lectric and was still getting stance and stuff down, but it is all believeable. One thing immediately obvious, Don's tools are huge. He has a roughing gouge and a straight two-sided flat (like a skew but 90 degrees, not sure what you call it) made from leaf springs that is something like 1 1/2" wide and original thickness. He claims he can make chair legs with those two, a bruzz(sp?) which looks like a big 90 degree V gouge, and small (my guess is 3/8- 1/2") ladyfinger gouge. Also used a 2-sided skew mebbe 1/2" wide with the edges of the stock rounded. But that is about it for tools. And to comment on the other thread about efficiency and hand tools, he says he can do his legs in 4 1/2 minutes each on his pole lathe at home....using green wood. The big thing when he demoed doing it, in green maple, was that you don't need to pump like a maniac, a slow but steady cadence was better. There was a lot of discussion about how to build a platform for little kids to use it at school demos. A bit of Daddy's hug to help hold the gouge a bit and you would be set. Slow is just fine, and amazing to watch. Apparently the Conover's and at least one other attendee do re-enactments (I think early 1800's) and several of the folks do school visits so the knockdown portability of not carrying a 16+' pole is a real attraction. The big pieces are 5' long, and the A frames are 44" wide, the whole thing fit into my Honda Civic hatchback (cute _little_ car Jeff) with plenty of room to spare. I can see a new camp amusement at SCA events when I get a bit of practice this summer. Don is a neighbor of Reverend Ron and teaches buiding this in his shop if any west coast galoots are interested. I suspect it will show up in Conover's class list again for the more easterly types. The one suggestion I would make for the geekier types is to spend a couple weeks working up your planing muscles slowly before going. The first day was spent mostly planing and sawing, which in my case seems to be the same set of muscles used the same way. I recognised I was going to be sore in the morning, but did not expect the screaming complaints I got. Fortunately most of the stuff was drawknifing and spokeshaving so I could plane a little, then do something else for a while, but I was afraid at one point that I was going to have to flat out say I can't keep up with the guys, which I have never had to do in that sort of situation before. Of course the other students consisted of an apprentice, a former apprentice, a chairmaker, a vet who smiths on the side, and about 3 other people including galoot Jim Cosgrove if I haven't mangled his name whose profession was unknown. Having survived Dunbar OK it was certainly unexpected. Would I do it again? Yes. Would I want to be in better shape? Certainly. But I'm feeling much better than expected today, even though short 2 hours sleep. And it's out in the country, and spring, and the lilacs are blooming.... Conover now has a website: http://www.conoverworkshops.com/ Don also has an email address and maintains a snail mailing list if anyone is interested, don't know how he feels about it being posted but I will mail to anyone who asks. Esther eoh@k... ++++ End of thread 18874 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18875 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42684 (thread 18875) ---- From: Michael Ehret Date: 1998-05-04 21:45:00 Subject: WTB- vise, Yankee bits Looking to buy 1) Phillips bits for my North Bros "Yankee" Screwdriver The bits are about 1/4 in diameter, but I haven't them at Home Depot, etc. BTW, can anyone tell a novice when these started to be made by Stanley. The North Bros driver is one of two tools that I aquired from my gradfather so it's got a lot of sentimental value. 2) A metal bench vise. Don't have the $ for a new Record or equivalent and would rather not buy a piece of imported junk. Sooo, here's what I'd like. Rapid acting highly desirable, doesn't need to be too large. Pop-up dog would be nice, but I can do something with wooden faces and dowels. If it seems pretty usable, I'll give it a try. I've toyed around with electrolysis (Awesome !) and am more than willing to derust a "project vise. ++++ End of thread 18875 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18876 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42685 (thread 18876) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-04 21:48:00 Subject: WTB WTB List: ******** Stanley #30 Angle divider: sliding screw & knurled nut assembly and bottom blade & screw assembly. Millers Falls #709 Smooth Plane (Buck Rogers #4 size) Union #21 Cap iron for #21 transitional (non-Union is OK). #22 and #23 caps are the same width and would be equally acceptable (as would other than Union). Stanley #104 Lever cap (Liberty Bell) Chaplin #1233 Iron for Tower & Lyon #1233 Chaplin's Improved Patented smooth plane - will trade long 1 3/4" "B. Plane Patd Oct 22, 1889" iron currently in it Sargent #1088 One short rod Stanley #10 1892 iron & cap iron Stanley #75 Lever cap from older model Stanley #3 Type 14 lever cap (STANLEY w/keyhole), iron (SW), cap iron Stanley #4 Type 15 lever cap (STANLEY w/keyhole) Trade or buy? Thanks, Chris ++++ End of thread 18876 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18877 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42686 (thread 18877) ---- From: BRUCE KANTELIS Date: 1998-05-04 21:52:00 Subject: Chisels for sale Hello All! A few items: 2" firmer tang type W Butcher long blade $15 2" I&H Sorby tang type firmer long blade $20 1 1/2 tang type firmer W Butcher long blade $15 1" Marples tang type firmer long blade lousy handle $15 1" socket style Witherby firmer $15 All have no handles otherwise fine shape with no damage. Will also trade for Bergs. Regards, Bruce ++++ End of thread 18877 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18878 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42687 (thread 18878) ---- From: Paul Ebert Date: 1998-05-04 22:27:00 Subject: WTB: chipbreaker GGs, OK, here's a tough one for you all. I am looking for a 2 1/8" chip breaker (with bolt) for my panel raiser. Alternatively, I'd consider a chip breaker and iron combo. If you've got anything like that laying around, let me know. I'll be away from email until Friday, so please don't be put off by slow response. Thanks much. Paul Ebert ++++ End of thread 18878 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18879 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42688 (thread 18879) ---- From: Bruce Mosher Date: 1998-05-04 22:40:00 Subject: FS Veneer OK GG's time is running out,... I'm down to about 1,400 lbs of veneer, so act fast! Mixed specie (not flitch contiguous) hardwoods -white oak, maple, cherry, walnut & Guatemalan primavera. From 6-12" widths, 34" or 8' lengths (your preference). Price Includes delivery in the lower 48, others inquire. This is first quality, and there's somewhere between 12 & 16 square foot per lb (some specie are thicker than others). 10 lbs = $ 35 20 lbs = $ 50 30 lbs = $ 60 or, if you want to drive to Williamston, I'll give you a cup of coffee & sell you veneer @ $1.50 a pound, in lots of 50 lbs or more. If you want comments from former buyers I can send a list (some have gloated to the list, so I feel pretty cocky ). Payment SOT. Cheers- Bruce Mosher ++++ End of thread 18879 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18880 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42689 (thread 18880) ---- From: David Sutton Date: 1998-05-04 17:31:00 Subject: WTB: Backsaws, Froes, Eggbeater drill I'm in the market for a couple of saws and a couple of froes. In all cases I want tools that are that what I call "User Excellent", in other words, good quality tools that do just what they're supposed to do, are of little or no interest to collectors, and appearances are unimportant. I also want GREAT DEALS! (but don't we all . . .) In all cases, I will tune & sharpen my own, so if they're sharp, that's fine, and if not, I'll handle it. I need several sizes of backsaw. Tell me what you have and why I should want it. I want a medium froe and a smallish froe (if there is such a thing).Handles Optional. I need a nice eggbeater drill for my little bits. Thanks! Happy FMM David Sutton Suttons@e... ++++ End of thread 18880 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18881 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42690 (thread 18881) ---- From: David Sutton Date: 1998-05-04 17:34:00 Subject: FS: Stanley Block Plane Stanley#118 low angle block plane. It's sharp, and no matter what they say, it does a fine job on end grain. $25 + $4.00 shipping David Sutton Suttons@e... ++++ End of thread 18881 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18882 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42691 (thread 18882) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 19:53:00 Subject: FS / WTB for May, 98 - Infill smoother, scraper and more... This is a second attempt to post my list. Sorry if it appears more than once. Standard Oldtools Terms apply (You want, I ship, you like, you pay + shipping. If you don't like, you return at your expense). I usually ship USPS Priority mail, please let me know if you prefer another method. 1. Infill Smoother - Mathiesen #843 (I believe), best quality open handled rosewood infill smoother. Overall 9 " long by 2 3/8 " wide with a 2 1/4" Marples iron(about 2" of life left). Mouth is tight, set for a light cut it is between 1/64 and 1/32 by my measurement. Tip of tote is missing and has been very nicely rounded over by a previous owner. Looks to have been done intentionaly. Owners stamps are lightly stamped into rosewood sides. The front bun/knob does have a very tight hairline age crack, that will not affect use. Price - $295 + shipping. 2. Sorby Chisels - Set of 5 , 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" 3/4" and 1' New, never sharpened. Boxwood, octagonal handles, with tip protectors and vinyl sleeves. New from Garrett Wade $124+. Price - $70 + shipping 3. Starrett #13 Double Square - 4" double square in pristine condition. Blade is shiney and crisp. Hardly if ever used. Price - $42 + shipping 4. Side bead plane, boxed, 1/2" - nice plane, unfortunately someone sanded off makers mark. Very nice user Price - $9 + shipping. 5. Millers Falls #1 spoke shave - nice rosewood handles, but iron and body are pitted. With some work the iron can be made usable or order a new exact replacememt from Kelly Tools for $12.95ppd. This is a good user and is priced according to condition. Price - $22 + shipping 6. Stanley #82 Scraper - type 1, no blade. Good user condition. Price - $14 + shipping 7. Stanley #81 Cabinet Scraper - nickel plated, rosewood bottom. Nickel plating is about 80% +. Rosewood bottom is original and of original thickness, 1/4". Original blade has about 1" of life left. No rust or pitting at all, nice overall condition and an excellent user. Price - $85 + shipping WTB - I am looking for an iron, cap iron and lever cap for a Stanley #32, 26", Transitional. It's a type 14, both I'm not too particular. It takes a 2 5/8" iron. Got any that haven't been toasted??? ++++ End of thread 18882 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18883 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42692 (thread 18883) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-04 19:54:00 Subject: FS - 4/4 rough Birch. This is a second attempt to post my list. Sorry if it appears more than once. Sorry for the second FS post, but I forgot to mention for Galoots in the NH, MA area (others that like to drive) I have some 4/4 rough Birch for sale. It's been air dried for over 18 months and it is now in my shed. It ranges in width from about 4 to 7 inches (there may be a few 8") and about 8 feet long. It's all native NH species mixed between white, black and yellow birch, but mostly yellow. I have about 300 bf to sell. Price - $.50/bf or if you want it all we could talk. Located in Sandown, NH which is about 15 mile southeast of Manchester. Thanks, Steve ++++ End of thread 18883 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18884 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42693 (thread 18884) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-04 23:18:00 Subject: L-N 112 & New WA catalog arrived - WOW! My L-N 112 came bright and early this AM. The Iron needed only a small amount of lapping to flatten. Turned a burr, and wow, what a tool! Easily the finest shavings I've made. Also, in the mail, was the Spring 1998 catalog from William Alden. It too blew me away! It is greatly expanded and has more new-old tools then I've seen in one place before, and at fantastic prices. It has everything from a Harris panel plane for $1350.00 down to tiny infill thumb planes. Stanley, including *individual* cutters for the new plow and combination planes ("easily modified for old 45's & 55's!") parts for (sizes 3 to 10 1/2) bench planes, and the Stanley Goldenberg wooden planes. Also Primus, Rali, Record and Clifton. I guess the only line they don't have is Kuntz [& L-N]. Braces, eggbeaters including a Stanley 2 speed breast drill with Jacobs chuck, yankees. A great selection of edge tools. They have a hardware line, expanded books (many galoot titles, including "The Handplane Book - Garrett Hack" for $24.99). I already like WA because of the speed with which they make delivery and the low prices, now I love 'em! These guys are making a serious bid to become my main galoot store. A bit of a gloat, also recieved a brand new but many years old, set of 13 auger bits. I got 'em for about a quarter of what new Irwins would cost. It'll be so nice to hone an auger bit that hasn't been screwed up. I know foregoing sounds like a shill for WA, but I am retired and not associated with anybody. And it is FMM. Check 'em out galoot! Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ++++ End of thread 18884 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18885 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42694 (thread 18885) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-04 23:16:00 Subject: WTB.. User Grade Type 11's Dudes & Dudettes' Having finally settled on what type of plane I like best as _users_ I'm lookng to cull some planes from my stable and replace them with Type 11 Planes... For the un-initiated they would be indetified by having 3 Patent Dates on the bed behind the frog, have a frog adjusting screw and have a LOW knob.... Jappaning and light rust not important but a sole free of pitting is a must. Corregated soles need NOT apply. ====================================================== also looking for a #271 Router plane, vintage aint no nevermind ====================================================== John, Will consider trading my current <_very_well_tuned_> users of equal model in trade for your type 11's But I aint no steenking collector, nope ;-) ++++ End of thread 18885 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18886 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42695 (thread 18886) ---- From: DNRSchwartz Date: 1998-05-04 19:25:00 Subject: WTB 2 Oooops. Almost forgot. I'm also looking for a user broad hatchet. I almost got one form Tony Seo, but he was asking a lot because of the collector value as it had 'PEXTO' cast in the side. Chris N. Schwartz, Feral Brewer... Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he wastes a lifetime. http://mav.net/darc/prbc/ ++++ End of thread 18886 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18887 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42696 (thread 18887) ---- From: Larry Poffenberger Date: 1998-05-05 01:06:00 Subject: FS from the old rustytool Hi Y'all, After staying up late last night updating my inventory, I forgot to mail it out, so I'm running late. Anyway, here it is and, as usual, it is also at my home page. If you can't find something you need there, you just ain't a serious coll..., uh, user! Regards, Larry ITEMS ARE SORTED DESCENDING BY ITEM NUMBER WHICH WILL (USUALLY) LIST NEW ITEMS FIRST 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 1 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 99999 CONDITION VARIES PRICE: $0.01 AUGER BITS, VARIOUS VARIOUS MAKERS,SIZES & CONDITION, EMAIL WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR $5-10 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 99999 CONDITION VARIES PRICE: $0.01 DRAW KNIVES, VARIOUS VARIOUS MAKERS & CONDITION, EMAIL WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR $ 10-20 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 99999 CONDITION VARIES PRICE: $0.01 45 & 55 COMBINATION PLANE BLADES VARIOUS NUMBERS AVAIL. EMAIL #'S NEEDED, $7-$30 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1377 CONDITION GOOD ++ PRICE: $65.00 MILLERS FALLS JOINTER GAUGE AFFORDABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE STANLEY 386, 75% JAPANNING, NI CE TOOL **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1376 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $135.00 #8C TYPE 17 95% JAPANNING, GREAT ROSEWOOD, SOME PITTING OF LEVER CAP NIC KEL, OVER 2" USABLE BLADE, VERY LIGHT PITTING FEW SMALL AREA **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1375 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $60.00 #3C TYPE 14 OWNER'S INIT. CARVED IN TOP OF HANDLE-FINISH POOR, OVER 1" U SABLE SWTM BLADE, GREAT USER, 90% JAPANNING **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1366 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $50.00 #4 TYPE 19 ROSEWOOD COMPLETE, NICKS ON NICKEL OF LEVER CAP BUT INTACT, 2" USABLE BLADE LEFT, 95% JAPANNING **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1365 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $100.00 #40 NEAR FULL VTM BLADE, 80% JAPANNING, GOOD WOOD, PART OF DECAL REMAINS **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1356 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $35.00 #80M A "MUST HAVE" ITEM: USA BLUE, OVER 1" USABLE BLADE LEFT, VER Y LIGHT PITTING, EASY REMOVAL, "UNBREAKABLE" **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1355 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $35.00 #80M A "MUST HAVE" ITEM: USA BLACK, OVER 1" USABLE BLADE LEFT, VE RY LIGHT PITTING, EASY REMOVAL, "UNBREAKABLE" 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 2 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1353 CONDITION *GOOD- PRICE: $50.00 #3C TYPE 9 NEEDS CLEANING & TLC, OVER 1" USABLE BLADE LEFT **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1348 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $175.00 #10 RABBET (REBATE) PLANE (ENGLISH) OVER 1/2" USABLE BLADE LEFT,TOOLBOX DINGS IN HARDWOOD, GREAT USER **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1344 CONDITION PRICE: $35.00 FOOT ADZE HANDLE APPEARS ORIGINAL, SOME PITTING ON HEAD **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1343 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $45.00 LARGE LIGNUM VITAE MALLET 4" CONE SHAPED HEAD **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1335 CONDITION *GOOD PRICE: $100.00 #8C TYPE 11 3/8" HANGING HOLE IN REAR, 80% JAPANNING, OVER 2" USABLE LAT E MODEL BLADE LEFT, HARDWOOD HANDLE, GREAT PLANE FOR NEW NEA **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1329 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $70.00 #6 TYPE 19 BLADE HONED ONCE, 85% JAPANNING, WOOD COMPLETE, VERY NICE PL ANE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1326 CONDITION GOOD- PRICE: $75.00 605C TYPE 6A SMALL CRACK IN BASE, TIP OFF TOTE, 3/4" USABLE LATE MODEL BL ADE LEFT, 80% JAPANNING, CHIP OFF REAR **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1321 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $17.00 DRAW KNIFE 1/2" USABLE BLADE LEFT, MAKER UNKNOWN, NICE TAPERED HANDLES WITH NO CAPS ON ENDS **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1315 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $45.00 #80M BLACK USA MADE SCRAPER EXTRA THICK BLADE (NOT ORIGINAL) **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1311 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $80.00 #604C TYPE 5/6 3/8 " CHIP IN THROAT (STILL GOOD USER), IMPROPER LEVER CAP, 85% JAPANING, BEAUTIFUL INTACT ROSEWOOD, 1 1/4" USABLE SWTM **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1310 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $60.00 #4 TYPE 8/9 95% JAPANING, BEAUTIFUL INTACT ROSEWOOD, 1 1/2" USABLE Q BLA DE 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 3 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1300 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $75.00 #6C TYPE 13 VERY NICE INTACT ROSEWOOD WITH USUAL TOOL BOX DINGS, 1 1/4" LEFT ON VICTORY BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1286 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $110.00 #7C TYPE 11 VERY NICE PLANE, COMPLETELY PROPER, OVER 2" USABLE VTM BLADE LEFT, ROSEWOOD HANDLE & KNOB INTACT **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1278 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $100.00 #20 VICTOR CIRCULAR PLANE BRAZED, 50% JAPANNING, 1 3/4" USABLE SWTM BLADE, GOOD USER **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1277 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $105.00 #5 1/2C TYPE 11 I WANTED TO KEEP THIS ONE TOO. NICE PATINA, NEAR PERFECT RO SEWOOD, VERY NICELY REPAINTED, 1 1/2" USABLE TYPE Q BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1276 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $130.00 8C TYPE 11 I ALMOST KEPT THIS ONE, VERY NICE PATINA, 1 3/4" TTM BLADE L EFT, ROSEWOOD INTACT, PROPER HANDLE REPAIR **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1275 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $80.00 6C TYPE 11 ROSEWOOD COMPLETE, 60% JAPANING, 3/4" USABLE VTM **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1273 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $130.00 605C OLD TYPE - 4 TIP OFF TOTE, 40% JAPANING, 1" USABLE VTM BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1270 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $130.00 #8 TYPE 16 OWNERS MARK ON LEVER CAP AND HANDLE, OTHERWISE PERFECT ROSEW OOD, 1 3/4" USABLE BLADE, JAPANING 95% **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1268 CONDITION *GOOD - PRICE: $30.00 #4 C TYPE 7? REPL. HARDWOOD HANDLE, CHIPPED LEVER CAP, 1 1/4" USABLE VTM BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1267 CONDITION GOOD ++ PRICE: $50.00 #5C TYPE 16 ROSEWOOD COMPLETE, NEEDS FINISH, JAPANING95%, 1/4" HOLE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1266 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $45.00 #3 TYPE 7 NEEDS SOME TLC, ROSE WOOD COMPLETE, NEEDS REFINISH, 1 1/2" O N TYPE BB BLADE 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 4 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1265 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $45.00 #4 TYPE 16 ROSEWOOD COMPLETE, NEEDS REFINISH, 90%JAPANING **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1250 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $75.00 #81 SCRAPER 30% NICKEL, SCREW MISSING, VERY SHORT BLADE, GOOD USER-NEEDS NEW ROSEWOOD BOTTOM **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1249 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $95.00 #605 NT TYPE 8 TIP OFF TOTE O/W VERY NICE ROSEWOOD, 1/4" HANGING HOLE, 1 1/ 2" USABLE SWTM BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1241 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $15.00 MILLERS FALLS BRACE 323? 40% NICKEL, WOOD INTACT **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1240 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $15.00 BARKER BRACE HEX "NUT" RATCHET, HANDLE PAINTED **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1237 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $55.00 #3 TYPE 11 HANDLE REPAIRED, 1 3/4" VTM BLADE LEFT, HANDLE REPAIRED **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1236 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $45.00 #3 TYPE 11 DIRTY, LIGHT PITTING, 1 3/4" SWTM BLADE LEFT, TIP OFF TOTE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1235 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $70.00 #3C TYPE 19 100% JAPANNING, ROSEWOOD NEAR PERFECT, SIDES TARNISHED **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1222 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $70.00 #48 20% NICKEL, WRONG BLADES? **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1219 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $120.00 #605C TYPE 6 DIRTY, HEAVY PATINA (BLACK RUST), PAINTED, WOOD OK-FINISH GO NE, 1" USABLE BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1218 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $100.00 #8 TYPE 8 SHORT BLADE, 50% JAPANNING" , TIP OFF TOTE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1209 CONDITION *GOOD- PRICE: $35.00 #4 TYPE 13 LIGHT PITTING 2" SQUARE ON BOTTOM, PROPER HANDLE REPAIR, O/W GOOD ROSEWOOD, 3/4" USABLE SWTM BLADE 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 5 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1208 CONDITION GOOD+ PRICE: $90.00 #7C TYPE 9 REPAINTED, REVARNISHED, SOME PITTING ON BLADE TYPE Q BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1196 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $60.00 #3C TYPE 10 NICE INTACT ROSEWOOD, 1" USABLE TYPE T BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1193 CONDITION FINE PRICE: $65.00 #3 TYPE 11? 3 PATENT DATES BEAUTIFUL ROSEWOOD, 1" USABLE TYPE X BLADE HAS VERY LIGHT PI TTING ON TOP 1/2 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1191 CONDITION *FAIR PRICE: $35.00 #3 TYPE 5 TOP OF FROG REPAIRED, SOME PITTING, REPAIRED HANDLE, QUITE U SABLE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1187 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $20.00 #49 AUGER BIT GAUGE VERY LIGHT RUST ON BOLTS OTHERWISE FINE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1178 CONDITION *GOOD PRICE: $15.00 120 BLOCK PLANE, STANLEY BLADE GOOD PLANE FOR CHILD OR SPOUSE OR ROUGH JOBS, NEEDS CLEANING **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1177 CONDITION *GOOD PRICE: $10.00 "220" TYPE BLOCK PLANE-UNMARKED GOOD PLANE FOR CHILD OR SPOUSE OR ROUGH JOBS, NEEDS CLEANING **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1174 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $450.00 55 IN CRAFTSMAN MADE BOX EMAIL FOR MORE INFO **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1171 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $85.00 5 1/2C TYPE 12 NICELY REPAINTED, BEAUTIFUL ROSEWOOD, 2" USABLE ON TYPE AA S WTM BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1170 CONDITION *GOOD - PRICE: $50.00 5 1/2 TYPE 11 JAPANNING GONE, 2" USABLE VTM BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1160 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $60.00 #4 C TYPE 9 80 % JAPANNING, GOOD ROSEWOOD, 2" USABLE ON TYPE 6A BLADE WI TH NO PATENT DATE(?) 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 6 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1151 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $60.00 #5C TYPE 9 REPAINTED & RESTORED, TOTE PROPERLY REPAIRED, 2" USABLE SWTM BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1150 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $10.00 220 BLOCK PLANE MISSING KNOB OTHERWISE FINE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1147 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $190.00 45 W/2 BOXES (19) BLADES 60% NICKEL, BLADES FINE (BOXES GOOD), MISSING SLITTER **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1140 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $40.00 #190 MISSING DEPTH STOP **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1139 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $90.00 5 1/4 . **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1125 CONDITION FINE- PRICE: $80.00 #50 NICELY PAINTED, ONLY ONE BLADE (1/4") **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1104 CONDITION FINE - PRICE: $20.00 #220 STANLEY . **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1063 CONDITION GOOD- PRICE: $14.00 KK MEAT GRINDER . **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 1021 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $75.00 #203 STANLEY 50% JAPANNING LEFT, BEST BLOCK PLANE i'VE EVER USED **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 956 CONDITION PRICE: $50.00 #65 . **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 900 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $50.00 JOINTER GAUGE SIMILAR TO MILLERS FALLS #38 60% JAPANNING, EXCELLENT USER, EXACTLY LIKE MF, BUT NO KNOB **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 898 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $80.00 #5 1/2 TYPE 8 OLD REPAINT, GREAT USER 5/4/98 6:50 PM Page 7 of 7 **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 897 CONDITION GOOD - PRICE: $60.00 #5 1/2 TYPE 13 SWTM RUSTY, BOTTOM OF KNOB CHIPPED, HANDLE PROPER REPAIR, 2" USA BLE SWTM BLADE LEFT, 20% JAPANINGLEFT **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 896 CONDITION GOOD + PRICE: $90.00 #5 1/2C TYPE 11 NICE ROSEWOOD, HANDLE REPAIRED, 1 1/2" USABLE TYPE T BLADE, OLD REPAINT **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 894 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $90.00 #5 1/2C TYPE 11 90% JAPANNING, DIRTY, PAINT SPLATTER ON TOTE O/W NICE ROSEWO OD, SHORT BLADE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 887 CONDITION FAIR - PRICE: $75.00 #10 REPAIRED SWTM REPAIRED, HANDLE CHIPPED, USABLE OR USE FOR PARTS **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 880 CONDITION GOOD- PRICE: $30.00 #78 NO FENCE, NO DEPTH STOP **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 878 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $50.00 #4C TYPE 11 3/4" USABLE SWTM BLADE, 50'S ROSEWOOD HANDLE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 868 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $100.00 #7C TYPE 8 DIRTY, VERY LIGHT RUST **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 865 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $60.00 #6 T10/11 BLADE USED UP, TIP OFF TOTE **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 656 CONDITION FINE + PRICE: $600.00 #55 UNIV. COMB. PLANE INQUIRIES WELCOME, MORE DETAIL ON REQUEST **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 636 CONDITION GOOD- PRICE: $60.00 #5 1/4 JACK PLANE 90% JAPANN, HANGING HOLE,SOME LEVER CAP RUST **************************************************************************** ********** INVENTORY NUMBER 460 CONDITION GOOD PRICE: $50.00 #4 STANLEY TYPE 17 WAR MODEL EMAIL: LKP@R... HOME PAGE: HTTP://WWW.RUSTYTOOL.CNCHOST.COM Shortcut to my Links: http://www.rustytool.cnchost.com/index.shtml#rustytools_links ++++ End of thread 18887 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18888 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42697 (thread 18888) ---- From: WLGhio Date: 1998-05-04 21:16:00 Subject: WTB - Howland or Auburn Hollow Looking for an A. Howland #10 hollow. In lieu I will take an Auburn #10. Either should be marked as #180 and #10 on the heel and will be the 3/4" size. Bill Ghio bghio@t... wlghio@a... ++++ End of thread 18888 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18889 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42699 (thread 18889) ---- From: Ron Harper Date: 1998-05-05 01:52:00 Subject: BEDROCK Query for Larry & Patrick Was in Centerville MI this weekend ,where I scored a crispy 605 1/2 C It is 1/4 in narrower in the sole than my 5 1/2 C. Howcome ? I thought that the bedrock was a jazzed up version of the regular line Ron Apprentice Galoot, FOYBIPO, Supporter of the Greenwood Furniture Project ---- Start of Message 42859 (thread 18889) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-07 20:12:00 Subject: Re: BEDROCK Query for Larry & Patrick Ron Harper wrote: > > Was in Centerville MI this weekend ,where I scored a crispy 605 1/2 C > > It is 1/4 in narrower in the sole than my 5 1/2 C. Howcome ? > > I thought that the bedrock was a jazzed up version of the regular line > This one must have gotten answered, but I don't remember seeing it go by. In case it didn't: The answer is that early 5 1/2's (up to 1939, including my beloved type 11 B^)) used a 2 1/4" wide blade which was unique to this model. After that they went to a 2 3/8" blade. The 605 1/2 was only made until 1935, and so would always have the narrower blade. Your 5 1/2C must be a newer type than this. BTW, Ron Hock can make up the narrower blades if you need them, but (and I don't want to speak for Ron here, but am just going by what I remember when I bought my 2 1/4" blade from him) I don't believe they are a stock item. ++++ End of thread 18889 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18890 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42700 (thread 18890) ---- From: Bruce Mosher Date: 1998-05-05 02:00:00 Subject: John Wilson's Green Bench Booklet John Wilson (of Shaker Box fame) is so Galootish he doesn't even have a computer, so he ask me to post this to the group (actually, I saw what he had & ask if I couldn't post it, as I think some of you will like it). He has developed a workbench made with green materials. He's built a number of them in the development process (has two finished units for sale $800, write for description), and designed a concept that allows you to use the bench from day 1 (two if you work slow) & lets the wood to move as it dries down to finish equilibrium. He's offering classes at his "Home Shop" in Charlotte MI, and has also self published a manual of how to build your own. The manual has color photo's & is written to walk you right through the process. You can order a booklet (I think it's $15), or request a class schedule by writing John at: The Home Shop 500 Broadway Charlotte, MI 48813 If you like the idea, but don't have green stock, Woodmiser will refer you to local Woodmiser owners. Woodmiser's referral number is @ 800 553-0183. Green wood should cost you .40 to .80 for 'log run' material. Cheers - Bruce Mosher ++++ End of thread 18890 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18891 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42701 (thread 18891) ---- From: Blakley Bill Date: 1998-05-05 04:53:00 Subject: FS: PLANES AND BRIC-A-BRAC > Two apologies this month ...1) I have not been able to rummage > through the stash to add goodies to the list ... not enough time > maybe I should cut down on the sleep and 2) I am in class this > week so I can only reply to inquiries in the evenings ... I will get > back to you ... be patient. > > Terms are Standard Old Tools terms. > > Wanted to Buy (or trade): > > Millers Falls wood scrapers Nos 35, 41, 53, 55 (with the > three interchangable blades if possible... just thought > I would ask), and 296 in good condition > > Original Millers Falls literature, any catalogs > except Nos 39, 40, 42, and 49 > > Original Lufkin catalog No 12 > > For Sale: > > If you are interested in an item/items send me a private > email with any questions you may have. I will do my best > to answer your questions. If you still like the item(s), I will > send them to you preceded by an email with the > particulars. Upon receipt if you still like the item(s) send > me a check for the price plus shipping. If you do not like > the item(s) ship them back to me. > > Thanks, Bill Blakley. > > All prices are in US dollars. > > PLANES: > > FS010: American Boy block plane ($15.00), 6 1/2" long, hole in > middle of upper part of iron - not sure if this is correct - > may be > part of blade locking mechanism, hairline crack in front > knob, > jappanning 80%+ > > FS020: Craftsman corrugated Jack 14" long ($30.00) with brass plate > inserted in lever cap with Crapsman logo, nice shape with > partial decal on nose, corrugated, jappanning 95%+ > > FS030: Keen Kutter block plane K220 ($30.00) jappanning > touched up otherwise excellent with nice logo on blade, > non adjustable mouth > > FS040: Millers Falls No 9 - type 6 ($40.00), small chip in rear > tip of > tote, clean, complete, and correct > > FS050: Millers Falls No 14 jack plane- type 4 ($35.00), most > nickel > on lever cap gone, light patches of scale on casting, > otherwise tight , clean, and complete > > FS060: Sargent 409 smoother ($30.00), front knob nicked and > chipped, jappanning < 20% - nearly nonexistant, rear > tote cracked but clean break, clean casting > > FS070: Stanley No 5 (Type 11 - $15.00) - V logo on > blade, cleanly broken tote, lever cap has small chip, > some pitting on casting, 3/4" of blade remaining - in > short a user > > FS080: Stanley No 7 (Type 10 - $45.00) - proper size > Victory iron - 2" of blade remaining, cracked handle ... > will repair ok, jappanning 80%, owners initial in side > > FS090: Stanley No 18 (probably type 10 - $25.00) - > knuckle joint lever cap (old style) - most nickel gone, > brass knob somewhat banged up, Stanley Rule and > Level in arch on iron, owners initials in side > > FS100: Stanley No 45 type 14 ($40.00) it is missing > the beading stop (part number 73), no cam, long arms, or > cutters other than the 3/4" mounted cutter, nickel 50% > > FS110: Stanley No 48(t and g/not a type 1)/Union No 41 > combo (Stanley 48 equivalent) ($60.00), Stanley plane > missing one blade and one thumbscrew, Union missing > one blade with one poorly ground replacement blade, > missing front knob and screw > > FS120: Stanley No 90 bullnose rabbit ($85.00), SweetHart iron, > 50% nickel, low Sweethart iron > > FS130: Stanley Handyman H104 ($45.00) - large chip out > of front of tote where it meets body of plane, otherwise > little used as is typical of these planes, complete with > original store price tag, 'retail price 4.65 our price > 3.97' ... > not mine. Everybody needs one ... > > FS140: Thos McBurnie (owners mark) carvers rabbit - no maker in > evidence($25.00), own this small wood plane, 4 1/16" x 3/4", > heart shaped cutout for shavings, interesting > > > MISCELLANEOUS: > > FS510: Ax, Millers Falls($15.00), hard rubber handle, small split > near > top of handle 14" long > > FS520: Ax, Shapleighs($25.00), hewing ax, 17" long, old replacement > > handle, says " hammer forged" on head > > FS530: Ax, Keen Kutter($25.00), poll head with long replacement > handle, > 28 1/2" long, fuzzy makers imprint, head painted flat black > > FS540: Caulking iron mallet head($20), oak with steel bands, > no handle with two caulking irons, one is 2 1/4" wide in > arc, > nicely shaped, no name > > FS550: Pistol grip drill, Dunlap($10.00) with red gear case > > FS560: Saw Set, Keen Kutter ($25.00) plating 60% nice logo > with Keen Kutter spelled out on inside of handle, tpi > range > not known > > FS570: Spokeshave, Stanley No 68 ($85.00), excellent shape > > FS580: Wrench, Westcott No 76 ($10.00), Keystone Mfg Co 6" long, > adjustable s type wrench > > FS590: Stanley No 100 picture framing miter box($150.00 ), missing > ruler, nice looking replacement aluminum vise handles , 70% > blue paint, correct Stanley/Diston/Porter marked saw, saw nuts > rusty, stress cracks around saw nuts on both sides where > overtightened > > FS600: Stanley No 400 picture framing vise ($50.00 ), I was going > to use > the handles off of this to replace the handles on the No 100 > above but > never did, 70% blue paint remaining > > FS610: Kraeuter wrench ($5.00 ), double open ended 1" x 7/8" > > FS620: K.G. Lang + Co. Sheffield glass working pliars ($5.00 ), > tack puller > on one handle and glass tapping ball on other, some chipping at > glass > gripping end > > FS630: Rigid offset pipe wrench ($5.00 ), rusty and yellow 7 1/2" > long > > FS640: Billings adjustable wrench($10.00 ), steel handle, pitting > around the > head, mouth good, 10" long > > Thanks for looking. I hope you find something you like here or > elsewhere ... > ================================================================= > ++++ End of thread 18891 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18892 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42702 (thread 18892) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-05 02:17:00 Subject: FF: Trees Well Sorta FF (For Free ;-) You see I got a few acres over in Jacksonville, VT. About 10 years ago we cleared an acres and it was a nice camping-site. it has since overgrown a bit ;-0 Anyway there are LOTS of trees on the property just standing there. so In the few reaming wfree weekends this summer I want to get up there and clear the camp-site again and harvest me some wood. I was figuring anybody that wanted to drive up w/ a chainsaw is welcome to cut any tree they want under one condition all the bits you dont want get piled semi-neatly where you drop it for folks w/ Family Units there are lots of nice things to do in the area.... Thre is a place called North River Winery.. an apple orchard that produces award winning apple wines. they offer a free tour of the operation and samples at the end.. On the other side of the Mointain is the e beautifull Sadawga Lake... swimmin etc. w/ pic-nick/cook-out sites, free boat launch, 3 more miles down the road is the charming town if Whitingham VTthere are "improved" Campsites in the area, many B&B's and of course free _rustic_ camping on the property.... So if you are looking for a nice weekend get-away..... Or got a double bit axe, misery whip, or husquarvanah, that is needing to taste some fresh wood , (how many of you actually ever felled a tree?-) cut down an entire tree for one Burl (yeah there are some out there but you gotta find them;-) Or just looking for weekend in the woods.... Drop me a line Jacksonville VT is just across the MA border in Southern Vermont. got to http://www.mapquest.com and search for Jacksonville, VT John, basicly looking for an excuse to spend some time on my long neglected property ..... and drink Hard Cider around the campfire ++++ End of thread 18892 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18893 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42703 (thread 18893) ---- From: Dave Hucaby Date: 1998-05-05 02:46:00 Subject: FS It's time to upgrade a few things. Out with the old, in with the new/old. Oldtools terms apply. Dave Hucaby dave@i... Lexington, KY Spokeshave specials: 001 Stanley 151M spokeshave w/ two adjusting nuts; in near new condition; made of maleable iron; lots of SW blade left, but I'll throw in a new replacement blade too $45 002 Stanley #67 Universal spokeshave with all of its parts convex sole, flat sole, and the rabbeting fence; nickel plating 90%; sweetheart cutter; right handle is ever so slightly loose, but won't come off. $125 003 Preston ornate spokeshave w/ open loop handles, single adjustment knob, and lateral adjustment (similar in style to the #1391). Not much japanning left, but that's a good thing in my opinion, as the fancy casting details show off better. Plenty of iron left. $55 004 Stanley #97 wheeled marking gauge; 80% nickel; marking wheel is a tad loose $15 005 Clark's Expansive Bit for bit braces - good condition with 2-3" cutter only. $20 006 Witherby 7/8" socketed bevel edge chisel w/ replacement handle; 3 3/4" usable blade left $20 007 Witherby 3/8" socketed bevel edge chisel w/ replacement handle; 4 1/2" usable blade left $20 008 No name 7/8" socketed bevel edge chisel w/ no handle 5 1/2" usable blade left $15 And now for something new... 009 Freud 12" 15tpi tenon saw (bought before my conversion) closed handle & brass back; used a few times $30 010 Garlick & Son 8" 14tpi turned handle gent's saw; never used & logo is still present! $10 011 Stanley #65 marking gauge (new model) $10 ++++ End of thread 18893 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18894 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42704 (thread 18894) ---- From: Bruce Mosher Date: 1998-05-05 03:08:00 Subject: FS veneer (Repost?) I apologize, but I don't see my post of several hours ago,.. so just want to say that I still have LOTS of veneer for sale at 'right' prices. Write for details. Happy FMM -Bruce ++++ End of thread 18894 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18895 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42705 (thread 18895) ---- From: alan ferrency Date: 1998-05-05 03:26:00 Subject: FS trade my #4 for your #3 The only offer this month: I'd like to trade my user Stanley #4 for someone else's user Stanley (or comparable quality) #3. This #4 looks like approximately type 16 to me: no patent dates, high hardwood knob, steel depth adjuster, and no frog adjustment screw (and no place to put one). No cracks or structural damage. There's some japanning left, but not a lot. The plane was overcleaned, and definitely lacks collector value, but it'll make a great user. As far as irons go, you get your choice of either a heavily pitted stanley iron (currently sharpened with a slight back bevel so it makes a clean cut), or an old Craftsman iron in as-found condition (complete with some rust and an inexplicable mushroomed top). What I'm looking for in a #3 (I'm lenient, give me an offer): Any type. No missing parts, but replacements that fit correctly are fine. No cracks or structural damage. Rust is fine as long as it doesn't make the plane unusable. If it's not Stanley, it should have a relatively fine mouth instead of those Defiance, etc. planes which have 1/2" mouths. (I'd think MF or Record would be fine alternatives but I don't have much experience with those brands.) Terms: Ask questions first. We both ship at the same time and satisfaction is 100% guaranteed because our expectations are very low (and because it's not worth shipping these planes twice, let alone once). We each pay for our own shipping, the cheapest possible. Thanks for your interest! Alan ++++ End of thread 18895 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18896 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42706 (thread 18896) ---- From: Dave Harris Date: 1998-05-05 03:14:00 Subject: WTB. Marples Paring Chisels I am looking for Marples Paring Chisels. Plain handle with 'Marples, Sheffield, England' logo, brass bolster and overall length of about 13 inches with blade about 8 inches long. Anybody have any of these that they want to sell ? If so, let me know what you have and the asking price. Cheers, Dave Harris MichiGaloot - Stealth #68 ++++ End of thread 18896 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18897 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42707 (thread 18897) ---- From: Lodley Date: 1998-05-04 23:23:00 Subject: FS: Good, Better, Best A very mixed list of things I have elected not to keep, and with some pretty minty items at that. I go with standard terms for list subscribers, which means an item goes to the first person at my screen making an Unequivocal Request. If all right when arrives you Promptly post a check for the amount stated plus exact postage. I will e-mail when item is sent with this information. As usual, I try to give pretty good descriptions, to avoid Q's and A's. I will try to answer any questions as I can, but any such inquiry will yield to an intervening Unequivocal Request. 1. Stanley No. 39 3/8 dado plane. Unused with full finishes everywhere. All parts. Probably later type as no logo on screw. $95. 2. Stanley No. 102 block plane. As found. Early S.W. mark on full length blade. Most japanning inside of body, only about 20% on cap. Some stains on bottom from surface rust. Always a handy user. $16. 3. Stanley 806 Victor Zig-Zag. Has a pat. number. Not a big collectable, but this one is near mint with no apparent use or wear to the bright orange finish. $9. 4. Cheney Nailer. 16 oz. hammer with the ball bearing holder. Used but not abused. Can read name easily, and also can see some of the red-lettered logo on the chamfer just below head and part of stamping on heel. Handle original and wedging absolutely tight. Mechanism perfect. No damage to face and edges rather crisp on whole head. $32. 5. Yankee No. 131A driver. The big one with spring. Exceptional for sure. This is pre-Stanley with 1923 patent date and with all brass barrell. Just gold showing through the patina as it rests in a two-foot long green box with full label (box damaged at rear). Three bits. Minor scuffs only on the solid maroon handle. $35. 6. Yankee No. 555AA breast drill. With Stanley name. This is the beast, like a 1555 but with two-jaw chuck so square tangs will work. Famous 5-way shifter with the amazing Double Right setting. Absolutely the best either one of us has seen, from the shiny maroon handles (one small scratched area on bead of one handle) to the 100% plating on the handle and other parts. The decal is unfortunately about gone but not sure why. $70. 7. Jones Cable Saw. The coping saw with the tube frame for cord to run through. Patented by Mr. Jones in 1898, and says so with lots of other stuff on the frame, including "E.C. Atkins & Co. - Sole Agents." One side of handle roughed up a bit. Most plating on frame. I have never seen one of these actually in operable condition. This is no exception as string is MIA. I have put in a NOS 6" loop end blade (hard to find so go easy), and a sample of cord from one of these saws so you can try to match. Will also give some hints on the string configuration if you choose to try a restoration of that feature. A real conversation piece even if a bad idea. $24. 8. Greaves & Sons drawknife. About 6 1/4 inch blade. English I'm sure. Striking and galootish looking. Full meat, and not beat up on back, but needs some (not heavy) rust clean up. Handles are really beefy bottle shapes with wild grain in wood. Not perfect but the decorative little lines are there. A few chips out around tops and one disc at base (not a big cup, just very small types at pointy end), but the tang seems tight there. Can replace with a little effort but seems a great user anyway, especially in this desirable small size. $16. 9. Stanley No. 51 1/2 hammer. 16 oz. Unused and not a recent model. Has the orange and blue decal (about 90 %) that includes the Atha logo as well as Stanley. Not sure of time, but has to be 50's or before I would think. All original finishes including orange paint in the nice name and notched rectangle stamped in side of head. Shows $1.10 store price in light pencil. Some light rust to clean from polished part of head on one side. $30. 10. Big Plumb Bob. User made brass with steel point weighing in at three pounds. Nice bulbous shape but not fancy -- just holes in top (not a screw cap type) Plenty of character dings and absolutely uncleaned. The steel point is especially big, coming up over an inch, and just about 1 inch in dia. where it joins the brass. $62. 11. The Starrett Book for Student Machinists. 184 pp., 7th ed. 1955. Learn the basics with lots of pictures and tips. Geometry and math sections help. No damage and with clean dustcover. $21. 12. Stanley "Broadline Catalog No. 34" dated 1975 w/ 1977 price list. 8 1/2 x 11 and abt. 100 pp. Full color cover. Still called it a 34, but full of Surforms and plastic. Still interesting, showing differing quality of similar tools (like good and better designations), and shows what was left of interesting things like North Bros. stuff and planes. Did you know that American and English planes were offered at same time, No. 4 and 5 in cordovan were U.S, but 4C and 5C were Made in the Motherland -- Why? Clean with little evidence of consultation. $16. 13. Sargent "Planes - Steel Squares and Other Tools." 8 1/2 x 11 in punched folder with big Sargent Hardware printing on front. Has pages numbered 619-643 perhaps extracted from a big catalog, but this has a distinct front sheet and definitely came in this format. Not dated, but prior to 1947 as Auto-Sets and ladybugs are shown. Great illustrations, especially for combination planes with big pix of all parts. Cutters shown profusely with samples of work profiles. Excellent and clean. $26. 14. Three paper item, the best being a James Leffel Water Wheel (Spfld, O.)1891, 103 page work. 5 x 8. Tight with a little water spotting. Very graphic with lots of history, charts and installation schemes. Also a Jones of Binghampton Scale pamplet 4 1/2 x 7, 24 pp. One corner nibbled off. Humorous history of scales starting with great drawing of Adam and Eve. Testimonials (dated ca. 1880) etc, and finding fault with all historical precedents like Fairbanks scales. Also a heavily illustrated little time book from Finke's Detroit Special Overalls, which would Wear Like a Pig's Nose in early 1900's. Some pencil entries about 1918. $34 the lot. 15. A real gem. Luther "Fire Fly" hand grinder. Like no others, Luthers are visual impact for sure. Spoked open gear cranks another wheel which then speeds up further by driveing an open chain up to the arbor for the 4" grinding wheel. Best I've seen (and seems smaller than others seen but not sure) Every part is there including rest (wraps around with angle rest at side) and another stright guide at lower part of wheel (what for?). Japanning at least 85%, and full black finish on crank handle. $60 for high appearance and play value. 16. Henry Disston & SON No. 7 26" saw. Stamped 11, but clearly filed to 6 point, and a long time ago I would say. Nib OK, 2 1/2 " at toe, 7" breadth at heel. Uniformly black, but minimal pitting. Can easily read etching, and cleaning will help, Son mark on both blade and button. Split nuts a little boogered on back side. Handle has dryness crack through the medallion hole like so many others this age. Horns pretty much complete, no finish. A piece of history from 1870 era after Ham Disston was made a partner. $40. 17. Disston Junior 20" 9 pt. saw of historical interest, and not common for sure. Centennial issue, and etching includes "Century of Progress 1940" info. Has a big eagle spread out over a Henry Disston & Sons ribbon. Blade not real bright and a blotch over Junior, but all very readable. carved handle is without damage but an are of finish is missing at top of grip. A little kinkiness about 9" from toe. Better condition would bring a collector's premium, but this one's still scarce and yours for $30. 18. Showcase Lot: In 1941, Mrs. C ordered two No. 53 Atkins Silver Steel saws from Montgomery Ward. Skew back ship points 26" in length, one an 8 pt. Hand Saw (meaning crosscut) and the other a 5 1/2 pt. Rip Saw. The saws were sent from Kansas City with label and presidential series precancels attached directly to the Atkins cartons. They were probably opened, but never used, and were stored in the cartons until about a month ago. Why was this matched set, so perfectly suited for an apprentice's kit, never so employed? Was it a fiance's gift, then a change in plans? Was it the winds of war? We can speculate, but neither I nor Martin J. Donnelly will ever know. Here they are with the brilliant wavy damaskeening, ribbon back and carved apple Perfection type handles (true, handles were getting blockish by then but way better than postwar stuff). Gotta see em to believe; the only negatives are a very few small points of of early rust blooming, and a few negligible scratches from another saw on the back of one handle. The boxes are rough but complete, with all tabs, and end labels complete but with each torn through from opening I suppose. Insects have nibbled at the mailing labels and stamps some. BTW, even at this late date, Atkins still put its '94 date on blade and Glover's 1887 on the nickeled button. $220 the pair with boxes. But there's more. Am including a mint condition Atkins Catalog No. 22, exactly appropriate 1941 date, 155 pp., with this number saw shown and described right there on p. 111. 19. Still have a 26" Stanley No. 95 brass-bound level. Superior condition with quite a bit of original finish, sharp edges, unpolished. Some dings to mahogany, but good + I reckon. Good original vials. Has 1890's patents on plate. Now just at the edge of Walterland at $52. 20. Stanley No. 79 side rabbet, early type with circular cutout, and strong S.W. marks on each blade. Virtually 100% plating, thumbscrews included. $96. Lloyd Henley ++++ End of thread 18897 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18898 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42708 (thread 18898) ---- From: Ron Harper Date: 1998-05-05 03:26:00 Subject: Fw: BEDROCK Query for Larry & Patrick ---------- > > Was in Centerville MI this weekend ,where I scored a crispy 605 1/2 C > > It is 1/4 in narrower in the sole than my 5 1/2 C. Howcome ? > > I thought that the bedrock was a jazzed up version of the regular line > > Ron > Apprentice Galoot, FOYBIPO, Supporter of the Greenwood Furniture Project ++++ End of thread 18898 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18899 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42709 (thread 18899) ---- From: DEGRAU Date: 1998-05-04 23:30:00 Subject: Thanks, stoned Galoots Just wanted to say thanks to my fellow stoned Galoots, & you know who you are. I'm glad you're pleased, I think things worked out pretty darned good. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, the following is background. Awhile ago I posted an FMM for Arkansas stones. It was actually a result of my buying a #8 from another Galoot and trying to shape the monster blade on a dinky 2" India stone. I had become friendly with a stone cutter ( with his own quarry mind you) out of Hot Springs (Of course) and figured what the heck, why not ask if they can cut 3" wide stones, 1" thick and from 8" to 12" long. He said 'sure, kinda... maybe....I think so' So I pushed him a little, telling him there were others like me who just wanted a set of stones that they didn't have to do a stupid figure 8 on, stones that you could push a wide blade across and just shape the bloody thing square & even. Well, the sonofagun came through. These things are an act of God, blasted out of the ground, shaped by hand, and do they ever work. I have a reputation for being a kind of sharpening nut, and believe me, these things are super. Was it fun? ....yeah, kinda.....did I make any money?...no...But thanks to my Galoot buddies (Very influential people) I was able to convince the cutter to work in longer & wider sizes,, ( You're no joke when you buy as many stones as we did) and we now have a fine working relationship. And that's about as good as life can get for a man trying to build a business. So thank you, my fellow stoned Galoots. I'm glad I was able to do you all a service, and couldn't be more pleased with how it all worked out. Keith >From Joisey, where it's getting too warm to burn mistakes. ---- Start of Message 42724 (thread 18899) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-05 12:45:00 Subject: Re: Thanks, stoned Galoots DEGRAU Wrote: >Just wanted to say thanks to my fellow stoned Galoots, & you know who you >are. >I'm glad you're pleased, I think things worked out pretty darned good. Thank you! The stones are great, and they are *right* for WW . Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ++++ End of thread 18899 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18900 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42710 (thread 18900) ---- From: sbmarcus Date: 1998-05-05 04:06:00 Subject: FS: Marcus and Clark Saws Reposting this. Original seems to have falling into the great maw.. No old tools this month. Sold too well in the rain at Crane's to waste your time with a list of what's left. Instead a reminder to consider purchasing a Marcus & Clark traditional saw, proudly referred to as art that works. Images of these tools can be found at:http://www.eastconn.com/marcus/. Or j-peg images can be sent as e-mail attachments. We even ship photos by snail mail. Turning saw- The tool measures 23" long, handle to handle, and is 12 1/4" tall. The exposed length of the blade is 12 3/4". The body is birds-eye maple with cocobolo handles and tensioner, and brass fitments to hold the blade. The uprights are hand-carved with swans-neck finials. The rail is turned in bamboo style. It is supplied with one 1/4" blade, constructed from bandsaw stock, and I would be happy to provide others, of whatever size, for an additional price. The Tool is constructed with a unique joint holding the rail to the uprights, with a mortise and tenon joint seated in a socket with rounded shoulders. It is stained with aniline dye to bring out the figure and finished with three coats of shellac. It is entirely hand-made in my shop, and supplied ready to use, with a waxed twine tourniquet. The price is $200.00, plus shipping, which reflects the difficult and time-consuming nature of the construction. Delivery time should be less than one month from the receipt of order. Bow saw- We also now have available a Bow Saw made in the same manner as and designed like the Turning Saw, but slightly larger. It is 15 1/4" high, 31" long, has a depth of 6 3/4" between the blade and the rail, and takes a 20 3/4" blade. It is $250.00 plus shipping. The difference between these saws in use is that the turning saw is somewhat more useful for cutting out curved work, while the bow saw can be used more easily , due to its longer stroke, as a general- use bench saw. Coping and Fret saws- We also have available coping and fret saws, also based on an example of a saw we once owned. The Coping Saw measures 9 1/2" high, 15" wide and is 5" from blade to rail. The deep-throated Fret saw is 18" high, 15" wide and is 11 1/2" from blade to rail. Both saws are fitted to take standard 6 3/8" pinned coping saw blades, one of which is supplied with each saw. Both are made from strongly figured tiger maple with brass-ferruled, dark cocobolo handles on the fore side and tourniquet rod, and a hand-turned brass fitting on the rear that acts as a take-up screw to further adjust the blade tension beyond the adjustment made by the traditional cord and turned rod. The posts are finished with carved volute finials. The blade-holding shaft is steel. The Coping Saw is $135.00 plus shipping, the Fret Saw is $155.00 plus shipping. Delivery should be less than one month from receipt of order. Additionally available is an adaptable version of either which can be used with coping or jeweler's saw blades. This version is supplied with two different length rails and a blade-holding shaft that has a thumb-screw mechanism to hold the saw blades. The adaptable version of either can be had for an additional $45.00. The advantage of all these saws, in addition to their great beauty, is that it is possible with them to tension the blade much beyond what is possible with a standard metal-frame coping or deep-throat or jeweler's saw, and that it is much easier to turn the blade in the frame than is usual with modern versions. Bruce ++++ End of thread 18900 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18901 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42711 (thread 18901) ---- From: Thomas E. McCluskey Date: 1998-05-05 04:08:00 Subject: WTB:Machinist's tools Dear GGs Looking for the following: gear tooth pitch gauge metric center gauge Manufacturer is not important, must be in good usable condition and reasonably priced. Tom - Member in good standing of the Ancient and Honorable order of Bottomfeeders (AHOB). (By permission) ++++ End of thread 18901 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18902 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42712 (thread 18902) ---- From: Andrew Barss Date: 1998-05-05 04:59:00 Subject: FS: Preston/Auburn-Metallic/Sargent/Stanley Planes And More! Tools for Sale, May 1998. I'm going to give a list of the tools, followed by descriptions and pricing. All these tools are from my personal Stash O' Tools, and I'm parting with them to make way for other stuff. Some items here are uncommon or rare; some are minty, some aren't, dewcriptions will clarify. Terms are Standard Oldtools terms. I'll be happy to send digital photos to serious enquirers. (I am at the end of semester, and probably won;t be able to get to the post office till Friday morning). I. Brief List of What's For Sale Preston Patent Spokeshave Record Side Rabbet Plane Metallic Plane Co, Auburn NY, adjustable-mouth jack plane. Stanley #48 swingin' fence match plane Stanley #72 chamfer plane Stanley #2224 mitre box, with saw, bells, whistles, and original wooden packing crate. Stanley #8 jointer plane Sargent #7-sized (22") jointer plane Stanley #45 combination plane with 9 blades Sargent Autoset 14" jack plane Stanley #29 cornering tool Stanley #98 marking gauge II. More Details, and prices (1) Preston Patent Spokeshave One of the more ornate spokeshaves Preston produced, this is the model 1391, pictured on p. 96 of the Astragal Press Preston catalog reprint. Lots of japanning, nice condition. Only drawback is that the blade (clean & original) is very near the end of the working life, so if this is to be used you'll need a Hock custom especial. $50. (2) Record Side Rabbet Plane This is in as close to NIB condition as any tool I've ever owned. This is a crossed-blade design, a Record adaptation (a very close one) of a Preston design (Record absorbed the planemarking component of Preston in the 1930s, and this plane is clearly one of the reasons why). As far as I can tell, it's never been used; exceedingly light surface rust on the blades will clean up with a sittle steel wool and oil. The varnish on he wooden front knob has crackeled with age. Comes with the original blue box, which has a puncture. An absolutely top-shelf side rabbet plane. $115. (3) Metallic Plane Co, Auburn NY, adjustable-mouth jack plane. You've heard about them (remember the "why are no bench planes made with adjustable mouths?" thread a couple months back), now your chance to own one of the more unusual American metal plane designs. For the PTAMPIA-equipped, this is quite similar to the smoother on p. 174, but with the hooked adjuster mechanism seen on the jointer on p. 171. This specimen isn't perfect, so here's the details: Downsides: a) some chipping at the rear of the mouth b) horn of tote was broken off, and the screwed back on. Upsides: re (a): you weren't gonna use it anyways. re (b): All, and I mean all, of the wood of the tote is there, except for the two cycinders removed by the knucklehead with the screws. A careful person could back out the screws, and repair the holes with plugs (tote is tight- grained beech, and I have a trashed side bead I'll throw in for parts). The tote, damage and all, is the most exceptionally graceful tote I've seen, with a gigantic back sweep to the horn. (c) No rust or pitting; blade is clean, nice patina overall, arched "Metallic Plane Co Auburn NY Patented" on left cheek, strong mark. If you collect jack planes, you gotta have this baby! $125. (4) Stanley #48 swingin' fence match plane. Earlier japanned model with floral handle; brass screws, original blades, nice condition, good japanning. $60. (5) Stanley #72 chamfer plane. Early model, with Stanley Rule & Lever Co. logo on very clean blade. Strong japanning (I'd estimate 90%+), nice patina. Unusual rosewood on tote: quite light, creamy color, with a couple of black streaks widing around; very distinctive and attractive. Nice patina on tool, no rust. $375. (6) Stanley #2224 mitre box, with saw, bells, whistles, and original wooden packing crate. Would be hard to find a nicer one than this: all the parts, down to the original packing crate (a big wooden box with the address of the CT hardware store which sold it) and the paper parts list that came with it. A truly magnificent and precise tool (1993 new price: $500, according to Frog Tool), probably dates from the 1930s. $190. (7) Stanley #8 jointer plane. A definite user, not collector, tool: tote is missing horn, and there are two holes drilled in the left side, for mounting a fence at a 90- degree angle to the sole (a much sneered-at, but user- useful, modification). Low knob, dandy working condition. $75. (8) Sargent #7-sized (22") jointer plane. Maybe I'm just ornery, but I really like the Sargent planes, maybe a bit more than the Stanleys that they are copies of. This one has nice rosewood (including a beaded front knob), very early blade (oval logo), thin casting, and frog type and patent information to indicate a type 2. I electrozapped it, to remove light surface rust on some bits; now has a nice patina. Some japanning missing from the from end of the plane and very tops of cheeks. $105. (9) Stanley #45 combination plane with 9 blades. Another user. If type matters to you, I'll run it through Walter's type study (plane's out in the shop, I'm stuck inside with a cold). Slitter, fence, rods, nicker, all intact and ready to go; top of tote horn gone (doesn't affect use). Some cleaning needed for main body (not much, I'll probably do it anyways), blades nice and clean. $120. (10) Sargent Autoset 14" jack plane. The autoset line of planes was an innovative and unusual design which is unparalleled in plane history! Well, sorta. This one has a very nice tote (either mahogany or tight-grained rosewood, hard to tell), and a slightly mangy front knob (nothing missing, just a little unsmooth). Metal nicely patinaed. Another one for the jack plane collector. $85. (11) Stanley #29 cornering tool. Utterly unmarked, shiny as shinola, and with a SW mark to boot. This is new old stock, which I got from a fellow galoot some months ago -- really looks like you plucked it out of a Stanley delivery jalopy in 1923. $23. (12) Stanley #98 marking gauge. Two armed mortise and marking gauge, wheels on one end, sharp points on the other. This one has a fancy script logo on the head, and a SW mark on one of the adjusting turnscrews. Lotsa nickel, and yours for only $35.95. ++++ End of thread 18902 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18903 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42713 (thread 18903) ---- From: carlwshp Date: 1998-05-04 15:45:00 Subject: WTB Woodies WTB Auburn #180 H&R. #2H&R, #6R, #10 H&R, #12 H, #16R, #18R, #20 H&R, #22 H&R, #24 H. Marten Dosher, New York. Bead Planes. Thanks Carl Murphy Eastport, Maine ++++ End of thread 18903 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18904 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42714 (thread 18904) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-04 15:47:00 Subject: FS: Good Stuff This month I feature many Bedrock planes, interesting levels, and some cool rules on my regular, everyday-including-FMM web site: http://www.tooltimer.com/Tools/tools.htm Everything is satisfaction guaranteed and shipping is included in the continental US. Treadle machines can be found on the Miscellaneous list. Happy hunting! Steve ++++ End of thread 18904 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18905 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42715 (thread 18905) ---- From: Joe Date: 1998-05-04 16:53:00 Subject: WTB WTB or somehow acquire the following, nothing much, just trying to get a few more tools back into shape: 1. cutters, any type, for a #46. 2. an eccentric for a #110 block plane (was zapping it and lost it) 3. Irwin bit - actually any brand as long as it cuts, size 22 (1 1/4) 4. SWMBO - prefer mid to late 60's model, but will accept early 70's. 5. Turning tools, lemme know what you got as far as users go. tks Joe Meyer ++++ End of thread 18905 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18906 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42716 (thread 18906) ---- From: JThomp4432 Date: 1998-05-04 12:54:00 Subject: FS oldtools Greetings, FS - Battery chargers for your electro-zapping set up. These are brand new, still in the box with warranty. They are Solar brand made by Century. 3 amp only - $27.00 10/2 amp - $39.00 10/2/55 amp - $49.00 FS - Millers-Falls #07 (#140 ) Skew mouth block plane with removable side plate. Fine condition $125. FS - Stanley #25 transitional block plane. Type 6 prelateral, eagle trade mark, full wood thickness.G+ $400 FS - Stanley #77 Dowel rod machine 5/8 " cutter only ( not the machine) Type 1 G+ shape $65 I take Visa, M/C, and AMEX if that helps any of you, or can ship Standard oldtools. Thanks, Bob Thompson ++++ End of thread 18906 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18907 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42717 (thread 18907) ---- From: Russ Allen Date: 1998-05-04 19:12:00 Subject: FS: FWW's Galoots: I have the following items for sale: 1) Fine woodworking B&W covers $5 each: 22, 23, 25, 28, 31, 32-, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47 Color covers $3 each: 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 87, 88, 92, 93, 94, 95, 97, 98, 107 See the FWW index at http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/fww.index to see what you are missing! Help stamp out the dreaded tool budget! Oldtools terms apply as long as you have a bio on file. Prices do not include shipping. Russ Allen ++++ End of thread 18907 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18908 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42718 (thread 18908) ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 1998-05-04 16:16:00 Subject: WTB: #65; and eccentric lever, lever cap screw for #18 or #19 I would like to acquire an eccentric lever for a #19. It would be great to get one stamped with the patent date. This part should be common across the whole #9 1/2 family. Also, I need a lever cap screw for the same plane. It has an improper one now and doesn't perform as well as I would like. This part should be the same for the #18 and #19 knuckle-joint block planes, so please check your parts boxes and planes. It would be just loverly to have a #65 low angle block plane with knuckle-joint cap. My first priority is that it should be inexpensive. I'll take any decent user you have. No japanning? Don't bother me none. No nickel remaining? Still don't bother me. Some pitting that can be lapped out? Heh, Heh you ain't even close to bothering me. Not a Stanley? Come on, your not even trying. But remember, it should be a decent user that doesn't cost too much. Better make it cheap. Yours in bottom-feeding, Steve ++++ End of thread 18908 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18909 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42720 (thread 18909) ---- From: Generations Furniture Date: 1998-05-04 19:22:00 Subject: WTB: Millers Falls GG's Still looking for a user 18C and 22C Millers Falls I can afford, or someone will trade for what I have for sale. Actually, would like to have any MF planes which are corrugated. I do have a couple of 9's and one 14 with smooth bottoms I could trade for corrugated, if there is any interest. Thanks Bruce Z. ++++ End of thread 18909 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18910 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42721 (thread 18910) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-05 05:39:00 Subject: FS: Dogmeat Incorporated The tools listed are in flea-market condition, though fully functional. Most haven't been cleaned. Light rust is probable. Oltools standard terms, prices US$ to which will be added shipping. If you aren't satisfied I'll pay return shipping. These tools are being shipped from Montreal so rates may be a bit higher than you're used to (or less, who knows). For example, to ship a bench plane to the United States it's somewhere around 5-10$US. A 37lb package cost 18$US. ================================================================= Stanley No 78 Rebate plane 15$ Non-ornate, with depth adjuster, complete except for depthstop thumbscrew, depth stop is an old replacement. As found, slightly dirty, slightly rusty. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Stanley No 82 Scraper 5$ As found, maybe a bit dirty, in pretty nice shape. Small blade ? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Miller's Falls No 5 Eggbeater 5$ Model without springs, beautiful rosewood though somewhat mis-matched. As found, pretty clean, really nice. Handle is empty. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Miller's Falls No 68 Double-ended block plane 15$ Almost new in an almost-ok box. Sole has some streaks probably from the only time it was used. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Stanley No 3 Smoother 15$ Made in Can, circa early type 19 The finish on the tote and knob is rough and partially gone, though it still tooks pretty good. The rest of the plane is really nice. As found. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Stanley No 112 Scraper Plane 15$ No blade, 50%+ japanning, small brass bolt instead of pin between threaded rod and blade holder, threaded rod has been modified but remains functional, pitting on front half of sole, tote refinished with shellac, knob is nice. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Stanley No 45 Combination Plane 20$ Floral nickeled 'S' casting with two patent dates on skate. Missing cutters, long rods, cam, beading stop, slitting cutter (has slitter thumbscrew and depth stop), main depth stop thumbscrew (and I think that's it). I'm in the process of de-seizing the short rods which are holding the main pieces together and sale will depend on my being successful, and on the state of the metal of the short rods and in between the two bodies which are currently stuck together. So far it's going really well and most of the nickel is intact. Wood's good, small chip out of tote, bigger chip out of fence rosewood, knob really nice. Didn't want to wait a month, but this one is only a maybe at this point. ---- Start of Message 42741 (thread 18910) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-05 17:39:00 Subject: Re: FS: Dogmeat Incorporated Hey, all you Galoots on and around the porch, Before I'm crushed under the weight of all this email I'm getting I'd like to inform you that the 112, 82, 45, and MF68 that I listed are sold. Thank you very much for your interest. I'll try to get more stuff like this to you in the future. Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ---- Start of Message 42744 (thread 18910) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-05 18:06:00 Subject: Re: FS: Dogmeat Incorporated Hey, all you Galoots on and around the porch, Before I'm crushed under the weight of all this email I'm getting I'd like to inform you that I've been cleaned out and have nothing more to sell at this time. Thank you very much for your interest. I'll try to get more stuff like this to you in the future. Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ++++ End of thread 18910 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18911 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42725 (thread 18911) ---- From: Dnbyr Date: 1998-05-05 08:11:00 Subject: Re: WTB - Reply To: joeiam@i..., oldtools@l... In a message dated 98-05-05 02:13:30 EDT, joeiam@i... writes: << 4. SWMBO - prefer mid to late 60's model, but will accept early 70's. 5. Turning tools, lemme know what you got as far as users go. >> Joe, I've got a combination of the two above items, SWMBO, mid 60's model (possibly a bit earlier), not much to look at, but a good user. Let me know if you're interested. I'd like to upgrade. ++++ End of thread 18911 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18912 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42726 (thread 18912) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-05 13:28:00 Subject: WTB I'm looking for a universal protractor. Starrett, Brown & Sharp, what ever; this one is for use. Also need 1/16" and 1/8" gimlet and quill bits for a brace. Larry Williams ++++ End of thread 18912 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18913 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42727 (thread 18913) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-05 14:35:00 Subject: Re: OLDTOOLS digest 2959 Bill, I see occassional references to -William Alden-, but never an address, etc. Could you provide me with the address or other info so I can get a copy of the catalog too? Thanks much. Jim Erdman ---- Start of Message 42737 (thread 18913) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-05 16:42:00 Subject: Re: OLDTOOLS digest 2959 Try: http://www.williamalden.com/ Chris ERDMANJ@U... wrote: > > Bill, > I see occassional references to -William Alden-, > but never an address, etc. Could you provide me with > the address or other info so I can get a copy of the > catalog too? > > Thanks much. > > Jim Erdman ++++ End of thread 18913 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18914 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42728 (thread 18914) ---- From: Bob O Tool Date: 1998-05-05 06:30:00 Subject: FS-tools for sale DON'T KNOW WHY ? THIS DID NOT APPEAR MONDAY? IF ITS A DUPLICATE I APOLOGIZE 1 Bob o Tool Price list Tools for sale STANLEY TOOLS Description Condition Price Comments Smooth Plane # 4 WW2 Fine $45.00 Like New Smooth Plane # 3 Good + $35.00 Type 18 Rabbet Plane #190 Good ++ $50.00 Complete Smooth Plane # 3 Good++ $45.00 Type 18 Smooth Plane #2 Good ++ $195.00 Orange logo on cap Smooth Plane #3 Good++ $ 45.00 Type 16 SW Smooth Plane #3 Good + $ 30.00 Type 19 crkd tote Smooth Plane #3 Good ++ $40.00 Type 16 Smooth Plane #4 Good ++ $40.00 Type 16 Smooth Plane #4 Good + $ 35.00 Type 17 WW2 Pair side rabbets 98&88 Good + $165.00 Early,55% Nickle Smooth PLANE #4 ½ Good ++ $80.00 Clean&nice Fore plane # 5 ½ C FINE $120.00 Pretty,pretty ++ Smooth Plane # 2 Good ++ $175.00 Nice Scraper # 80 Good $20.00 hang hole in cutter Transitional #36 Smooth Good + $ 40.00 Nice Wood Duplex rabbet # 78 Excellent $60.00 Blue, no depth stop Side Rabbet #79 New $52.00 ENG, in box Side Rabbet #79 Good++ $100.00 Type 1 Handyman H1204 Fine $18.00 Like new #4 smooth Jack plane Victor #1105 Good++ $45.00 Clean Handyman H-104 Good + $40.00 Rare, made only 1 yr, 1964 Transitional,fore #29 Good + $ 40.00 Nice plane Smooth Transitional #35 Good + $30.00 full body,tight mouth Smooth Transitional #26 Excellent $30.00 Clean &Crisp Spokeshave #55 Good ++ $55.00 Hollowface Bullnose Plane # 75 Good + $28.00 Nice Transitional #24 Good ++ $45.00 Nice Plane Smooth Plane # 5 Good + $20.00 Good User Block Plane #110 Good ++ $15.00 Nickel cap, w/ label,black Block Plane # 110 Good ++ $15.00 Nickel cap,w/label, blue Scraper Plane # 80 Excellent $35.00 Sweethart mark , Rabbet Plane # 90 Good ++ $90.00 US- SW cutter 85%nickl Rabbet Plane # 90 NEW $ 60.00 new in box,ENG. Rabbet Plane # 92 NEW $ 73.00 new in box,ENG. Smooth Plane # 4 ½ Good ++ $90.00 type 10, lo knob # 271 Router Plane New $29.00 ENG- in box #378 Rabbet & Weatherstrip Good ++ $135.00 Clean & PROPER Jr. Jack # 5 ¼ 1960 FINE $85.00 BLUE, like new Duplex rabbet #78 Good++ $95.00 type 1, complete Duplex rabbet #78 Good ++ $85.00 w/lever,nice Cabinet makers # 92 Exc $125.00 USA, ex,nice Transitional # 37 JENNY Good + $185.00 Rare Duplex rabbet #78 Good + $75.00 w/lever,good user Smooth Plane #3 Good++ $85.00 type16,O/Box Smooth plane 4 ½ Good+ $70.00 type 18,tote repaired Bullnose # 90 J new in box $42.00 English The Stanley Plane, by Alvin Sellens Excellent $85.00 Book fine, jacket fair Stanley,Jennings Bits set #32 ½ #100 Excellent $125.00 Box fine,bits fine,real clean full label on box, all brass latches OK Bevel # 18 STEEL Good++ $ 25.00 Nice Bevel # 25 Rosewood Good++ $ 23.00 SW mark 10" Bevel # 25 Rosewood Good++ $ 21.00 SW mark 8" Compass plane # 113 Good ++ $ 125.00 type 4 Gauge # 65 Good ++ $ 25.00 SW mark el~minto TOOLS BY OTHERS PEXTO, Brace # 5312 Excellent $ 55.00 12" brace, nice nickle &wood TERMS; SEND CHECK PLUS POSTAGE. WILL SHIP UPON RECIEPT. IF NOT SATISFIED, NOTIFY AT ONCE. RETURN ITEM AND I WILL REFUND YOUR MONEY WHEN TOOL IS RETURNED. Bob O Tool Bob Hall 40 Robin Dr. Hauppauge, N.Y. 11788 516-265-5345 ALWAYS LOOKNG FOR CLEAN STANLEY TOOLS, AND TRANSITIONAL PLANES ALL TYPES ! ++++ End of thread 18914 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18915 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42729 (thread 18915) ---- From: Jerry Serviss Date: 1998-05-05 13:49:00 Subject: Yankee Query, Was a WTB Previously Michael Ehret wrote: > >BTW, can anyone >tell a novice when these started to be made by Stanley. The North Bros >driver is one of two tools that I aquired from my gradfather so it's got a >lot of sentimental value. > Hello Michael: Nothing to sell, I hord all Yankee stuff. :) Stanley bought the North Brothers out in 1946. At that time the tools were labeled "Yankee", North Bros a Division of Stanley. The label changed to Yankee by Stanely in the Mideto late 50s as far as I can tell. Btw, if the finish on the metal is chrome, it is post 1931. Nickel was used prior to 1931 on the tools. Of course , there is all this wierd stuff as well, like the ones that are black, or all brass (?). Hope that helps. -- Jerry Serviss Rolling Meadows, Il You can never own too many tools ! ---- Start of Message 42745 (thread 18915) ---- From: Aaron C Davis Date: 1998-05-05 16:55:00 Subject: Re: Yankee Query, Was a WTB On Tue, 5 May 1998, Jerry Serviss wrote: >Btw, if the finish on the metal is chrome, it is post 1931. Nickel was used >prior to 1931 on the tools. Of course , there is all this wierd stuff as well, >like the ones that are black, or all brass (?). > I found one with a patent date around 1910. Believe it's the nickel plated variety and the collet?? (thing that holds the bits) unscrews to release the bits. It has 'Bell System' stamped in it so picked it up for my FIL who works for Bell Atlantic. ++++ End of thread 18915 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18916 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42730 (thread 18916) ---- From: Darren Addy Date: 1998-05-05 07:59:00 Subject: FS : Tools of Yore Any of the tools below can be seen in living color (and complete descriptions be found) by following the links at: http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dcaddy@k... NOTE: The auctions will be set up this morning. You may not find everything (or ANYTHING if you are REALLY fast) listed immediately. All auctions except the book will end in 7 days (on next Tuesday). Check back anytime to view the complete list of auctions. Tools of Yore available this month are: Stanley No. 10 Rabbet plane ...nice Stanley No. 65 knuckle cap block plane (low angle blade)...very nice Union double ended block plane ...good shape Stanley No. 7c (Type 19 with rosewood) ...pretty dang nice Stanley No. 3 (Sweetheart...Made in Canada)...needs cleaning Stanley Everlasting 13/16" chisel Stanley Everlasting 3/4" chisel Stanley No. 750 1" socket chisel Stanley Sweetheart 1-1/2" socket chisel Stanley 1" socket chisel Stanley No. 49 depth stop for clamping on brace bits...very nice Misc.............. Book: The Home Workshop Planner (by the publishers of WOOD magazine)...new. Magazines: 30 miscellaneous older copies of Workbench magazine (mostly 70s and 80s. Though the my auctions state money orders only, mention you are a Galoot and your checks are fine. Appreciate your "bid-ness"! Darren C. Addy Tools of Yore Kearney, Nebraska ++++ End of thread 18916 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18917 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42731 (thread 18917) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-05 07:59:00 Subject: King Solomons mine Hello GG's check out this! True Story! the young Guy that came over last night and purchased my Tablesaw - came with his grandfather - well we got to talking and it turns out his Grandpa used to repair Antiques, so I ask the obligatory question, -got any old tools-, just like that! works every time. Sooo I show him my Orange Frog Corrugated #3 and he says I got 2 or 3 that are smaller than that in the box! nice and shiny, and he goes on to describe all the hammers, etc etc etc, AND he knows this guy who has a barn FULL of tools who sells them cheap! AND he sold a stack of moulding planes to a friend who has since passed away , and the planes are probally still in his barn/workshop! After all that I felt compelled to just give him the saw in trade, but the Bills have to be paid, so I get his address and email # and he says to come calling some Saturday! OOOoooo la la somebody prick me with a pin and wake me! So if he is interested in parting with some of his treasure - it will be making its way to an FMM near you soon -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ---- Start of Message 42775 (thread 18917) ---- From: NLutz10449 Date: 1998-05-06 07:47:00 Subject: Re: King Solomons mine Tried to send this directly to aaron but DAEMON bounced it back twice. Hope it's of interest to all: aaron.ionta@i... writes: > Sooo I show him my Orange Frog Corrugated #3 and he says I > got 2 or 3 that are smaller than that in the box! nice and shiny, and he > goes on to describe all the hammers, etc etc etc, AND he knows this guy > who has a barn FULL of tools who sells them cheap! Sometimes fate walks up and pats you on the back. Would you like someone to come along to help carry little boxes? I'd be glad to help! ; ) Hope your Saturday is everything you wish it. Erik von Sneidern Syracuse, NY ++++ End of thread 18917 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18918 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42732 (thread 18918) ---- From: ScottA911 Date: 1998-05-05 10:32:00 Subject: FS: Stanley #93 rabbet plane Stanley #93 cabinet makers rabbet plane with V logo (1910-1918) embossed in the disk on the front. A good user with 75% or better of the nickel plating remaining and a little corrosion (mainly on one side). Original lever cap. Blade has small nick in edge which can be removed when sharpened and no Stanley mark. I also will include a new replacement blade and lever cap for use if you wish to save the original pieces. $110.00 Or e-mail me with a reasonable offer. Oldtool terms apply. Scott Adams 1131 Vanlear Ct. Columbus, OH 43229 (614) 764-3492 work (614) 847-9584 home e-mail address: scotta911@a... ++++ End of thread 18918 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18919 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42733 (thread 18919) ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 1998-05-05 14:12:00 Subject: MF Eggbeater Marketeers! Since it's so quiet this AM after that roller coaster FMM (is it coming? is it over? will it end?) I thought I'd sneak in here with a plea for help. I just took posession of a drill (MF pat. Sept 20, 1898). It is fancy beyond belief. Nickel plate over solid brass frame, spoked wheel, serpentine crank and frame members. Well, to cut a big gloat short, it is missing the rosewood top handle. Does anyone have a picture of one I could see? Have another cup and get back to me, please. Scott -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * scottg@s... PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ ---- Start of Message 42770 (thread 18919) ---- From: Chuck Zitur Date: 1998-05-06 04:25:00 Subject: RE: MF Eggbeater Scott Is it possible that you have a craftsman (NO NOT SEARS) made drill with a Millers Falls chuck on it. I bought one from MOFA that was outfitted that way. And by the way in light of Patrick Leach's recent problems with you know who (TM) I think that it would be appropriate when someone takes my name in vain (such as drill CHUCK) they should have to make it Chuck (TM) After all my parents registered me at birth. Otherwise I will have to get legal services after you. (What? They do not do nuisance lawsuits?)Well, never mind then. To much time on his hands in Montana Chuck Zitur ++++ End of thread 18919 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18920 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42734 (thread 18920) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-05 15:53:00 Subject: WTB: Hammers - Metalworking and jewelmaking I know nothing of hammers, and little of metalworking. However, I would like to try my hand at a dovetailed, infill something-or-other and need a hammer to do the riveting of the dovetails and the pins. I am also interested in small hammers of the jewelmaking variety, though I don't even know what these might be. I would like the hammer/s to be old but in good condition, preferably with some maker's mark. I don't mind making a new handle for a nice head, but would prefer the hammer to have an 'original', nicely patinated handle. Thanks for any help, Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ++++ End of thread 18920 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18921 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42735 (thread 18921) ---- From: Jeff Steele Date: 1998-05-05 15:02:00 Subject: Apologies : spurious posting Sorry folks. In the heat of FMM, I accidently sent out a request to a seller *and* to the entire OldTools list (i.e., you). So here I am just wasting a bit (a few thousand bits actually) more bandwidth to let Moms and others concerned about such things know that I'm sorry, that I'm not totally clueless about Email, and that I'll be real careful from now on. Ruefully, Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just say[TM] : "It's not a waste of bandwidth, it's a Gloat in Advance". ++++ End of thread 18921 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18922 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42738 (thread 18922) ---- From: James J. DuPrie Date: 1998-05-05 16:51:00 Subject: anybody played with Pau Marfin? I've been trying to find something nice and solid to make some planes out of, and a couple of folks have recomended Pau Marfin. Its not too expensive, and from what I've read should be pretty good. Has anyone ever played with it? comments? thoughts? thanks --JD -- ********************************************************* ** James J. Momenee-DuPrie Operations Manager ** ** Phone (978) 684-3722 ADSmart Corp. ** ** Fax (978) 684-3618 100 Brickstone Square ** ** jduprie@a... Andover, MA 01810 ** ********************************************************* ++++ End of thread 18922 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18923 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42739 (thread 18923) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-05 16:47:00 Subject: FS: (again) Good stuff (sorry if this is a duplicate - I didn't see it appear all day yesterday or today): This month I feature many Bedrock planes, interesting levels, and some cool rules on my regular, everyday-including-FMM web site: http://www.tooltimer.com/Tools/tools.htm Everything is satisfaction guaranteed and shipping is included in the continental US. Treadle machines can be found on the Miscellaneous list. Happy hunting! Steve ++++ End of thread 18923 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18924 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42740 (thread 18924) ---- From: James J. DuPrie Date: 1998-05-05 17:37:00 Subject: best user braces OK, so I'm finally looking into getting a couple of decent braces (to replace the plastic stanley I've been getting by with), and I figured I'd poll the porch before I plunk down the bucks... I'm looking for good user-type tools, so I'm not looking for investor-priced stuff (read: I'm a cheap basud). I trolled through the FMM, and it looks like there's a ton of different types of braces. what should one look for? I already know that 3 jaw chucks won't work with square shank bits, but other than that, what ar ethe good (functionaly best) braces, and why? thanks --JD -- ********************************************************* ** James J. Momenee-DuPrie Operations Manager ** ** Phone (978) 684-3722 ADSmart Corp. ** ** Fax (978) 684-3618 100 Brickstone Square ** ** jduprie@a... Andover, MA 01810 ** ********************************************************* ---- Start of Message 42749 (thread 18924) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-05 19:08:00 Subject: Re: best user braces James J. DuPrie wrote: > > OK, so I'm finally looking into getting a couple of decent braces (to > replace the plastic stanley I've been getting by with), and I figured > I'd poll the porch before I plunk down the bucks... > I'm looking for good user-type tools, so I'm not looking for > investor-priced stuff (read: I'm a cheap basud). I trolled through the > FMM, and it looks like there's a ton of different types of braces. what > should one look for? I already know that 3 jaw chucks won't work with > square shank bits, but other than that, what ar ethe good (functionaly > best) braces, and why? Well, I don't know if it's best overall, but a John Frey brace I have is the best I own. This is over MF and Pexto, anyway. It has a specialized chuck design that's easy to use and grips tight. It was in with the 5 1/2C I bought at auction last year, and made up for the fact that I rather overpaid for the plane alone. ---- Start of Message 42756 (thread 18924) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-05 20:13:00 Subject: RE: best user braces On Tuesday, May 05, 1998 1:08 PM, James Foster [SMTP:jaf@M...] wrote: James J. DuPrie wrote: OK, so I'm finally looking into getting a couple of decent braces (to replace the plastic stanley I've been getting by with), and I figured I'd poll the porch before I plunk down the bucks... I really like my North Bros Yankee brace. The locking mechanism on the chuck ratcheting direction is easy to use, and the chuck is very well made. I think they only made one model. I'd buy another if I saw one. - Bill ---- Start of Message 42765 (thread 18924) ---- From: Randall Roeder Date: 1998-05-05 19:34:00 Subject: Re: best user braces James, What you are looking for is a brace with a universal chuck. A universal chuck will take square shank, round and no. 1 Morse taper bits. Millers falls made some outstanding braces that generally don't sell for a whole lot of jack. The Millers Falls Parson's brace, with the red permaloid handles, is an outstanding tool. It has a nice chuck with a good jaw assembly and bronze bearings for the head and handle. If it doesn't say 'Parsons' on the frame it will be a cheaper permaloid model. The MF No. 769-773 numbers are wonderful braces with the outstanding Lion chuck. The Lion is a universal chuck which may be the best ever mass-produced for a hand brace. It has a hexagonal opening which keeps the jaws in alignment when adjusting. The jaw assembly is well built, and the ergonomics of chuck make it easy to tighten and loosen. The handles on this series ride on steel rings and the heads on ball bearings. The MF No. 730-733 series was the first in the line to feature a universal chuck. They are wonderful braces. Handles ride on steel rings and the heads on ball bearings. Here in Iowa, I still see braces like this running $35 or so for a Parsons model, and $8 to $20 for the others. Never buy a brace without checking to see if the jaws are functional. Randy Roeder ---- Start of Message 42833 (thread 18924) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-07 16:38:00 Subject: Re: best user braces I would agree about the quality of the Yankee braces, I have 1201 that I like. They seem to go for $30 or so if the seller knows what he has. I also have a Stanley No. 811 that has an enclosed ratchet that seems nicer than some others. Other braces that I like (that I have used) are the Stanley 1246, Pexto 110 and Sampson (also Pexto), and a couple of old Miller Falls without ratchets, one is a #44-6", and a Fray 112, no ratchet and a large wing nut to secure the bit. The Fray is handy for odd size bits or tools (I think the chuck style makes it a Spofford brace)> I find that a ratchet can be a nuisance sometimes, and even though you can set the ratchet so it doesn't ratchet, braces without a ratchet can be cheap enough that they are nice to have, too. (Usually don't pay more than $.50 or $1.00 for them). And thenit is nice to have a 14" or 16" brace for those times you need extra leverage. Jim Erdman ++++ End of thread 18924 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18925 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42742 (thread 18925) ---- From: alan ferrency Date: 1998-05-05 18:09:00 Subject: stone ID Since the FMM traffic seems to have subsided, it's time to ask about a sharpening stone I found this weekend. It was in the $.50 bucket, and it felt a lot less coarse than the average flea market sharpening stone, so I got it. It's about 2" x 3/8" x 8". It looked grungy until I lapped it (220 grit paper on plate glass). The first side looked beautiful! It has a beige, tan, and brown marbled appearance. There was also a sort of "figure" to the stone that looked like miniature "birds eyes" as in birds eye maple. I lapped the other side, and it was solid purple, but still had the same "figure." I lapped an edge and it looked like one stone with blending colors, not 2 stones glued together or something. I dumped some oil based lubricant on it and tried it out. SCREECH! It made a huge scratch in the stone. This is very soft. I've heard waterstones are soft, I probably just ruined it by using oil. Water as a lubricant worked better, but the blade still very easily scratched the surface of the stone. I figured I should learn more about this before I destroy it. So: Does anyone have any clues as to what this might be? It has the right size and shape for a sharpening stone, and seems to sharpen things pretty well, but it's really soft. It's much finer than my "hard arkansas" (from woodworkers whorehouse or something). Does my description ring a bell with someone, or is this likely to be just some kind of junk stone not really intended for sharpening things with? Alan ---- Start of Message 42763 (thread 18925) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-05 19:20:00 Subject: Re: stone ID Alan, What you have there is a Washita Stone, or in other words, a soft arkansas stone. I've heard it pronounced variously witch-a-taw, wash-a-taw, etc. It's made of mined and cut novaculite from hot springs. Use a very light touch with it, and dress it often. They seem to work equally well with water or oil, and are generally followed by a hard arkansas stone for finer polishing. The purple coloration and marbling is very common in the better and older stones, and is the result of mineral oxides and silicates that help form the stone. Think of it as micro-crystalline quartz, or better still, look at a clean spot on it with a pocket microscope, and you'll see what it is used to sharpen tools. Have fun with it, and DON'T drop it! Regards, Nick, who always thought it should be ouchita, NOT washita! ---- Start of Message 42767 (thread 18925) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-06 02:00:00 Subject: Re: stone ID Alan Ferrency writes : >I dumped some oil based lubricant on it and tried it out. SCREECH! Had to laugh and laugh. I've experienced this event myself. It's like a slap in the face. I was all set to give my nice (actually very beautiful) pinkish-purple stone a go, I can't remember what I tried to sharpen but I can still see the enourmous scratches the stone put on the bezel (!! got to sneak in some wordsmithing here : it is now my understanding that you can sharpen an edge to achieve an arris, though it's not clear to me if you ever get there. An arris is defined in my book as a :sharp: edge, so you can't sharpen an arris. Nor a bezel, which is just an inclined plane of something, nor a bevel since that's just the angle or the inclination of the bezel. So it seems to me that "edge" wins hands down when one is asking oneself just what exactly one is sharpening). Anyway, I never found out what the stone is for, though I suspect it's for shaving razors. I have what I believe (for fault of finding any other possibility) to be an English Charnley forest stone which is mostly slate-green in colour. However, there are some imperfections, of a redish, purplish colour that are pretty much identical to the purple stone. I read somewhere that you don't want darker regions in a Charnley forest stone, so this led me to believe that the purple stone was cut out of a single larger defect :-) The stone is really bad. It's as if there are very hard particles imbedded in some softer material. I haven't found a use for the stone, so it just sits on the shelf. Mine has a wavy, very faulted (mostly straight sorts of cracks, nothin like birdseye), very deep grain. 3d, no kidding ! Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ---- Start of Message 42779 (thread 18925) ---- From: alan ferrency Date: 1998-05-06 14:42:00 Subject: Re: stone ID On Tue, 5 May 1998, Cougarjack wrote: > What you have there is a Washita Stone, or in other words, a soft arkansas > stone. Ooh, that sounds interesting. I'm beginning to believe that those stones I got at Woodworker's Warehouse aren't actually Real Live hard and soft arkansas. The "soft" isn't soft at all, and is much rougher than this potentially washita stone. Thanks! I'll take care of this stone, and if I'm ever visited by a galoot with more clue than I have, maybe they can evaluate it more carefully. Alan ++++ End of thread 18925 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18926 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42743 (thread 18926) ---- From: Paul Houtz Date: 1998-05-05 17:55:00 Subject: Oldtools Galore! I finally saw some oldtools in use by someone other than me last night. A tornado touched down 100 feet from my house in Sunnyvale, CA just before 5:00 PM last night. This occasion is so rare in Sunny California that I fully expected to walk out right afterwards and get rained on by boxwood-and-ivory plow planes, sash and cope pairs, and filleted panel raising planes. Anyway, in amongst all the chain saws and helicopters and gawkers was an old fart out there cutting up a piece of someone else's roof that landed in his front yard with a Disston. Looked like a nice old one, probably a cross-cut. A little rusty. I almost went over and asked him what he wanted for it but I thought considering the circumstances it would be in bad tasete. Funny, I didn't see on axe in operation. What have we become? -gph ++++ End of thread 18926 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18927 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42746 (thread 18927) ---- From: Roger Birkhead Date: 1998-05-05 17:12:00 Subject: Weekend tool hunt woe Just thought I would add in my .02 tool tale of woe. Good tools are few and far between around these parts. Went to several antique stores in the nearest city (not many yard sales when your nearest neighbor is 2 miles as the crow flies). List of tools seen: 1 Stanley transitional bargan priced at $168.50, one wooden clamp likewise bargan priced at $68.75, a couple painted saws, misc. crappy files and rasps (nothing good trust me I was desperate at this point), and a halfway decent wooden joiner with decorating advice on the price tag "screw on a couple small shelf brackets and this would make a great shelf for display" (?!). Finally though to close this tale of woe I did find something cool, two NOS turpentine scrapers (for making catfaces on the trees). Both for $30. Not exactly a bargin, but an interesting momento of one of the early industries of the area. Guess I am a collector now. Roger B. ===================================================================== Roger D. Birkhead Phone (912) 734-4706 Tortoise Guy Fax (912) 734-6650 J.W. Jones Ecological Research Center E-mail: rbirkhea@j... Route 2 Box 2324 Newton, GA 31770 ---- Start of Message 42757 (thread 18927) ---- From: Gardner, David Date: 1998-05-05 20:13:00 Subject: RE: Weekend tool hunt woe > List of tools seen: 1 Stanley transitional bargan priced at > $168.50 Guess we shouldn't be burning them ugly things. Did you restrain yourself from bursting out in an uncontrollable laugh? ++++ End of thread 18927 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18928 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42747 (thread 18928) ---- From: Stan Faullin Date: 1998-05-05 17:12:00 Subject: FS: See my web page GG's, Please go to my webpage for my for sale items this month. I got wiped out last month, so unfortunately there's not much there at the moment. Thanks, Stan Faullin check out my oldtool web page at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/faullin ++++ End of thread 18928 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18929 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42748 (thread 18929) ---- From: Stan Faullin Date: 1998-05-05 18:59:00 Subject: WTB & Request WTB: Witherby 1-3/4", socketed bevel-edge chisel - with or without handle. Fence & Rod for Stanley #289 (reproduction is okay! - the guy mentioned a few months ago is sold out of them) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Also, let me take this opportunity to thank all the galoots who provided copies of their tool manuals or instruction sheets for posting on my webpage. There's a good selection up there, but there's many more that I am missing (Stanley #59 doweling jig, #42 sawset, #66 hand beader, etc). If anyone has one they would like to share, please let me know. All I need is a clean copy via snail mail or a good scan via email. Thanks, Stan Faullin check out my oldtool web page at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/faullin ++++ End of thread 18929 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18930 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42750 (thread 18930) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-05 20:09:00 Subject: re:King Solomon's mines Aaron, Good things come to those who wait, or are pure in heart, or something like that. Hope this turns into a super gloat. Jim ++++ End of thread 18930 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18931 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42751 (thread 18931) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-05 19:10:00 Subject: Re: King Solomons mine Again In reply to a drive by rasberry I just got :) from some guy named Bruce (but which one) I will post the very nice message that the Young man sent me this morning. > > Aaron, > > I don't know how to spell it, but consider yourself drive-by raspberried. > Some guys have ALL the luck. (grin and raspberry, all at the same time!!!) > =================== The Message My uncle enjoyed coming with me last night. He said it made him feel young again. He is going to be 80 this year. He said he hopes you stop down and check out his tools. He also has a guy who has a whole shed full of tools. As you can tell he loves to visit, and know lots about tools that you enjoy using in your hobby. Just let me know when your coming down and I will let him know. ================= and I had fun listenin too :) ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18931 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18932 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42752 (thread 18932) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-05 19:25:00 Subject: To: Alan Ferrency, and maybe others Sorry, no oldtools talk, but an issue that may affect others. Alan, I can't talk to you though you seem to be able to talk to me. Reason appears to be your ISP doesn't like mine. As in : ... while talking to ivory.lm.com.: >>> RCPT To:alan@l... <<< 553 alan@l...... The e-mail server mail0.tor.acc.ca has been banned for sending unsolicited e-mail through our e-mail servers -- please contact spam@t... to resolve this issue. I filter out ISPs who send me spam (like hotmail.com and att.net for those of you Galoots who use them) but this is the first that I've seen that my ISP may be guilty as well. If anyone knows what I can do about this please let me know. Thanks, Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ---- Start of Message 42754 (thread 18932) ---- From: alan ferrency Date: 1998-05-05 20:08:00 Subject: Re: To: Alan Ferrency, and maybe others > Sorry, no oldtools talk, but an issue that may affect others. At least one other so far... > Alan, I can't talk to you though you seem to be able to talk > to me. Reason appears to be your ISP doesn't like mine. As in : > > ... while talking to ivory.lm.com.: > >>> RCPT To:alan@l... > <<< 553 alan@l...... The e-mail server mail0.tor.acc.ca has been > banned for sending unsolicited e-mail through our e-mail servers -- > please contact spam@t... to resolve this issue. > > I filter out ISPs who send me spam (like hotmail.com and att.net for > those of you Galoots who use them) but this is the first that I've > seen that my ISP may be guilty as well. > > If anyone knows what I can do about this please let me know. In the short term, you can send mail to a different address which does not have any spam blocking. I'm not going to say it out loud in public, for fear of being spammed to death. But you can construct it by inserting the word "nospam" after the "alan@" and before the "lm.com" in my normal email address. In the long term, you should talk to your ISP and tell them to implement anti-relay spam blocking. Most likely your ISP is not guilty of originating any spam. But unless it puts some basic safeguards in place, other sites can use it as a relay to send spam to other sites, and your ISP will look like the culprit. Once anti-relay measures are in place, they can contact Telerama and be removed from our ban list . This is particularly embarassing because I work at my ISP, although I'm not in charge of spam policies. We deal with spam very aggressively here, but we're finding it's still a losing battle. I believe we ban sites that haven't implemented anti-relay measures, and who have been used as relays by spammers in the past. Hope this helps! Paul I guess you can now reply personally. Sorry for the inconvenience and wasted bandwidth :) Alan ---- Start of Message 42760 (thread 18932) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-05 21:43:00 Subject: Re: To: Alan Ferrency, and maybe others Paul Pedersen Wrote: > filter out ISPs who send me spam (like hotmail.com and att.net for >those of you Galoots who use them) but this is the first that I've >seen that my ISP may be guilty as well. > >If anyone knows what I can do about this please let me know. Send a message to your ISP support folks and tell about the ban. They will contact the server support and resolve the problem. Some spammers have been "bouncing" spam off of ISPs to pick up a different ID. The ISPs are installing s/w to fix the problem. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ++++ End of thread 18932 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18933 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42753 (thread 18933) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-05 19:30:00 Subject: FS Fellow Galoots, All the tools listed have been surface grime, rust and other yuck cleaned. Some planes have been SS(TM)'ed, tuned, and test driven. Some plane soles have been lightly lapped. Some tools have been spiffed up with a coat of Minwax. All are excellent users, any may have been my personal user (until replaced by one I like better), or any may have just followed me home (sometimes I hear a little voice saying "Buy me! Buy me!). Items include an asking price but all reasonable offers will be, at least, considered. If we've done business before and I haven't had to wait too long for payment (more than a week after you have received the tool is TOO long), Standard Terms are fine. If we haven't done business before or you are slow to pay, I'd appreciate payment up front. Tools will be shipped out as soon as possible - usually the next day after receiving the order or receiving the up front payment. If you can't return the courtesy of a fast turn around under Standard Terms, please pay up front. [The following section covers S&H. Unfortunately, it became necessary for me to explicitly state these terms after dealing with a completely anal retentive idiot] Prices do NOT include Shipping & Insurance. Each tool includes an unconditional moneyback guarantee (return postage NOT included). My shipping costs must be reimbursed on any item that is returned UNLESS it is returned due to a mistake or omission in my description of the item. REMEMBER: these are USER tools and should not be considered to be collector grade - especially at the prices posted! There will be scratches, nicks, and other minor use/age related deficiencies - I try to accurately describe such. REMEMBER: the various Type Studies are only that -"STUDIES". Don't forget that the Stanley version is based on the #4 and may not necessarily follow for other planes - see: http://peta.ee.cornell.edu/ ~jay/ww/planes/dating: Scope and Limitations. They are for reference only and are NOT gospel - for example, you may see a Type 12 lever cap on an early Type 13 plane. Shipment via USPS *only*. I ship Insured, Priority (2-3 day delivery) - the difference between the Parcel Post and Priority rates is neglible ($1.10 for an EIGHTEEN pound package!). Typically, a #3 costs about $6.75 and a #8 costs about $14 - guage accordingly. Shipment via Parcel Post by special request only. ************************************************************** ******** There are NO other options for shipping. ******** ************************************************************** Orders and questions can be sent to me at: a065117@w... Thanks! Chris Dunn 6562 Brad Drive Huntington Beach, CA 92647-4304 Phone: (714)848-9885 (Californ-i-a evenings & weekends) (714)896-3856 (Californ-i-a daytime - 7:30 - 4:12) ********************************************************************** Last update: 5/4/98 Last No. Used: 159 ASKING ITEM MODEL DESCRIPTION PRICE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 002 Stanley #4 Smooth plane, type 16, 90%+ japanning and 90%+ nickle on lever cap, tote has a nicely repaired crack at base and a 3/16x3/16x1 sliver missing from tip, knob is perfect EXCEPT for a wedge shaped chip about 3/16" maximum thick by about 1/2" wide at the base. The knob is structurally sound and fully functional. $26 023 Stanley #4 Smooth plane, type 19 (early) 100% japanning, 100% nickle on lever cap, knob & tote perfect except for minor chips in thick finish. $40 037 Stanley #5 Jack plane, type 17 (1942-1945) WWII production, 90% japanning, plastic depth adjustment nut, hardwood knob & tote perfect w/steel screws - finish worn on both, non-adjustable frog, good usable iron length. $35 080 Stanley #4 Smooth plane, type 13 SW (1925-1928), 50% japanning but nice stable patina, very good solid & intact knob and tote, good w/1 1/4" usable, my former user #4 $38 081 Stanley #5 Jack plane, type 13 SW (1925-1928), 80% japanning, very good solid & intact knob and tote: tote has 1/8" chamfer on side of horn, 3/8" chip MIA from side only (not into the top of the base) at right, front corner, great iron - 1 5/8" usable my former user #5. $32 084 Stanley #9 1/4 Block plane, japanning: 90% on body, 50% on lever cap good iron - 1' usable and notced rectangle logo, J.H. Bailey (Leonard's son??) lightly etched on side near sole. $28 096 Diamond Edge Jack plane, 100% japanning on body, 85% #5 japanning on lever cap, solid and intact knob & tote (both painted black) - white paint splatter on knob & some crackling of tote finish $48 106 Millers Falls Block plane, equivalent to Stanley #220, #75 repainted, iron w/plenty of usable length, good user at good price! $18 112 Stanley #102 Block plane, body: 80% japanning, lever cap: 20% japanning, long iron w/notched rectangle logo $16 126 Stanley #220 Block plane, body: 95% japanning, lever cap: 90% japanning, long iron (over 1" usable) w/SW logo, knob: minor dings in finish, STANLEY MADE IN USA on depth adjustment $25 142 Stanley #5 1/2 Jack plane, type 14 SW (1929-1930), 98% japanning, no nickle on lever cap, knob & tote: perfect except for minor dings in an otherwise very good finish, 4" X less than 1/64" scratch on one cheek, great iron w/2" usable length - my former user #5 1/2. $75 144 Millers Falls Block plane, low angle (Stanley #118 #206B equivalent), clean - maybe never used or honed, body: 95% japanning. $26 150 Sargent #217 (7" & Stanley #220 equiv.), 90% japanning on body, 60% japanning on lever cap, wooden knob good, ornate depth adjustment knob, 1 5/8" wide iron w/1 1/4" usable. $25 151 Stanley #220 Block plane, 7" long, 90% japanning on body and lever cap, wooden knob good, "Made In USA" on depth adjustment knob, 1 5/8" wide iron w/1 1/8" usable. $25 MISCELLANEOUS PARTS ******************* 159 Humphreyville Tapered double iron, 2 19/32" wide by 8 3/16" long, "Humphreyville - Mfg - Co" arched over "Warranted" over "Cast Steel", very good, shiny condition w/need for minor lapping on back near business end, perfect mondo iron for that homemade wooden joiner. $35 RULES ***** 137 Rabone #1167 Brass & boxwood rule, Blindman's 3' - 4 fold, made in England, very good. $28 138 Stanley #62 Brass & boxwood rule, 2' - 4 fold, brass bound, dark with some stains but clearly readable numbers & gradations, no twists or warps. $25 139 Stanley #63 Brass & boxwood rule, 2' - 4 fold, SW mark, clean w/clear numbers & gradations, no twists or warps. $20 140 Stanley Brass & boxwood caliper rule, 1' - 2 fold, #36 1/2L 1 side real clean, other needs cleaning, clear numbers & gradations, no twists or warps. $20 141 Stanley Brass & boxwood caliper rule, 1' - 2 fold, #36 1/2L faded but clearly readable numbers & gradations, no twists or warps. $15 SQUARES AND BEVELS ****************** 118 Stanley #25 Sliding T Bevel, rosewood and brass, "STANLEY" over "PAT 3-16-97" on blade, 1" lever cam lock good user $8 146 Stanley #20 Square, 6", "Stanley No. 20" over "Made In USA 6 Inch" stamped logo, brass and rosewood, wood: very good shape w/readable Stanley logo imprint, blade: 90% bluing w/minor scratches & wear. $17 149 Stanley #20 Square, 9", "V" logo, numbers, & gradations very readable, brass & rosewood, blade: minor pitting in a few areas, wood: 1/8" x 1/4" x 1/2" chip MIA from long edge, corners worn. My user until upgrade. $14 154 Stanley #25TB Bevel guage, 6", blued blade with some minor pitting, notched rectangle logo w/Made In USA, 90% finish on light hardwood handle w/brass trim & wingnut, "STANLEY" in Hand-y recess, wood edges sharp, shallow sliver MIA at one end of Hand-y on one side (not overly noticeable), price sticker from Buena Park Lumber, not used very much if at all. $12 SPOKESHAVES *********** 152 Stanley #51 Spokeshave, 85% blue japanning, notched rectangle logo, iron w/3/8" usable length $12 153 Stanley #64 Spokeshave, 90% japanning, notched rectangle logo, iron w/3/8" usable length $12 YANKEE-STYLE STUFF ****************** 131 North Bros Yankee Handyman No. 33H ratcheting screwdriver, #33H metal: 90% nickle, wood handle: 100% black finish w/minor dings & YANKEE in white letters, 40% red trim between handle & barrel, 1 slotted bit. $15 132 Millers Falls No. 170 push drill, 100% nickle, very minor #170 nicks in red plastic handle, metal bit storage cap w/clear engraved MILLERS FALLS NO. 170 & minor scratches. $12 133 North Bros Yankee No. 41 push drill, 2 patent dates, 75% #41 nickle, 9 drill bits. $18 134 Stanley Yankee No. 03-043 (new No. 41), 100% shiny #03-043 nickle, 10 drill bits, as close to mint as one can get. $28 136 North Bros Yankee No. 30 ratcheting screwdriver, 5 patent #30 dates - all readable, metal: 85% nickle w/ 1/4" dia. dent in handle ferrule, wood handle: solid w/minor dings and moderately worn finish, 1 slotted bit. $12 155 Millers Falls No. 170 push drill, 100% nickle, very minor #170 nicks in red plastic handle, metal bit storage cap w/clear engraved MILLERS FALLS NO. 170 & minor scratches, 9 Yankee bits. $15 CHISELS AND GOUGES ****************** 156 Winchester Bevel edged socket chisel, #4851 - 1 1/2", 4 3/8" from shoulder to cutting edge, good leather washers on top of good original handle. $28 157 Winchester Bevel edged socket chisel, 5/8", 3 5/8" from shoulder to cutting edge, top of leather washer a bit rough, fancy & very good replacement handle with socket end gaps filled w/epoxy-like material (nicely done). $24 SAWS!!!! PRICES LOWERED!!!!! ******** ******************* The following saws are in good shape and will make excellent users. I've cleaned them up, waxed them and they're ready to rip (or crosscut). I haven't learned how to sharpen saws yet, so they are in "as found" condition which generally ain't too bad. The TPI number is the what is stamped at the heel. To help determine the amount of saw blade left, I've listed the top to tooth dimension at the tip as "Tip" and the handle to tooth dimension at the heel as "Heel" for reference (approximate). 066 Disston & Sons D-8, 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 1 3/8", Heel = 1 1/2", Disston, Phila medallion + 4 nuts (brass), strong etch, solid handle. $21 074 EC Atkins No. 54, 8 TPI, 26" (rip or crosscut? - needs to be sharpened), Tip = 1 5/8", Heel = 1 1/2", AAA medallion + 3 nuts (nickle plated brass?), handle plain w/minor dings & wear, readable etch. $17 075 Disston & Sons D-8, 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 2 1/8", Heel = 2", Disston USA medallion + 4 nuts (brass), very readable etch, plain handle w/50% & crackled finish w/minor dings $17 076 Disston & Sons D-8, 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, sharp, Tip = 2", Heel = 2", handle plain w/very good 100% finish, Disston USA medallion + 4 nuts (steel) $22 077 Disston & Sons D-8, 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, very sharp, Tip = 2", Heel = 2 1/8", handle plain, dark 75% & crackled finish + "H RUNGE" ink stamp, Disston USA medallion + 4 nuts (brass) very, very good etch $24 078 Disston & Sons D-23 Lightweight, 10 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 1 1/2", Heel = 1", sharp, wheat carved handle w/dark evenly worn finish, Disston USA medallion + 4 nuts (brass? nickle on brass?), mostly readable etch $17 079 Stanley/ Mitre Box Saw, sharp, 10 TPI, 28", 5" under 1" Disston spine w/arched Henry Disston and Sons logo, good etching: Stanley SW Made in USA Stanley Mitre Box Saw Made Expressly For Stanley Rule and Level Plant New Britain, Conn USA by Henry Disston and Sons Philadelphia, PA USA Nice, light colored, plain handle w/Disston USA medallion + 3 nuts (brass), 1/8" hang hole in toe end of spine $42 104 Disston & Sons D-8 (I think), 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 2 3/8", Heel = 2 1/8", great solid & comfortable handle w/finish worn away but very nice patina (2 minor checks and small chip MIA on underside of top horn, Disston Phila medallion + 4 nuts (brass), 1" x 1/2" pitted area 6" from tip of blade, haven't found etch, great older saw - a lotta saw for $10 158 Disston & Sons D-95, 7 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 1 1/2", Heel = 1", intact brown/beige "indestructible" handle w/Disston USA medallion & 3 nuts, etch appears to be MIA. $24 ********************************************************************** *** Items 121, 122, and 123 are in "u-clean-it" condition and will *** *** clean up nicely: *** ********************************************************************** 121 PEXTO 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 1 3/4", Heel = 1 3/4","Warrranted Superior" medallion with 3 nuts (brass), small sliver missing from bottom horn of wheat carved handle w/practically no finish wear, very readable "etching" (paint), sharp, hang hole nice older new saw $12 122 Corsair 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 1 5/8", Heel = 3/4", 4 steel nuts, wheat carved handle intact w/very little finish wear, readable "etching" (paint), sharp, hang hole $5 123 Master Mechanic "Professional", 8 TPI, 26" crosscut, Tip = 1 3/4", Heel = 7/8", 5 steel nuts, wheat carved handle intact w/very little finish wear, readable "etching" (paint), sharp, hang hole $5 MISCELLANEOUS ************* 030 Splex 1200 Red/orange Japanese waterstone, 1200 grit, 8-1/8" x 2-1/2" x 1-5/16", not used very much. $14 032 Nagura Stone Natural Nagura, barely used. $4 086 Unmarked Try Square, 7", #20 style w/nice rosewood & brass, numbers and gradations good, Stanley style trifoil, w/o "Hand-y" indents - maybe an early Stanley? $12 099 Millers Falls 24" Carpenter's steel square $12 103 Craftsman Revolving Turret Doweling Jig accomodates #9-4186 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16", 1/2" bits with a 4" board thickness capacity (same as General #840), in good condition original box w/instructions printed inside top $14 117 Unmarked Burnisher, 8" long blade, oval cross section, nice bulbous handle w/finish stained, 4 small gouges 1 3/4" from handle probably made by having being gripped with pliers (?) - these can be smoothed out and should not affect use $15 130 Irwin #900 Awl, threaded tip, wooden handle: solid w/100% shiny finish. Real handy for starting screws and drilled holes. $8 AUGER BITS ********** 114 Irwin Set of 13 auger bits (1/4" to 1") with 3" expansive bit, unused in red plastic roll Check out the price on a lesser set in any of the catalogs lately? $75 Loose bits: All bits are in very good condition. Get that bit or two to complete a set - will discount on multiple orders: Logo: Size: Ea. -------------------------------------------------- Winchester 8 $5 een K 7,10,11,12,13,14,16 $6 utter Russell Jennings 13,14 $5 #100 Jennings Patent $5 (across shank) Russell Jennings 10,12,14,16 $6 (fine thread) [NOTE: I have many more IRWIN bits of various logos available in addition to those listed below] 9 IRWIN -- 9/16" NOS w/cosmolene $6 16 USA on tip (4 available) IRWIN - USA 6,16 $4 IRWIN - USA 8*,9*,11* $5 (* new & unused) The IRWIN Bit $4 Reg US Pat Off The IRWIN Bit 13 $4 ??? 21, 1884 ??? ?? 1887 THE IRWIN BIT 11,13,16,17,18 $4 IRWIN US of A 5,8,10,12,13,15,16 $4 The IRWIN Bit 7,8,11,16 $4 (MAINBOR) IRWIN 4,9,12,15,16 $4 US of A IRWIN 4 $4 Made in USA Lakeside 12,14 $3 Bates Co. 13 $3 Craftsman 13 $3 PS&W Co. Extra 14 $3 James Swan Co. RED (single spur) 8 $4 James Swan Co. 7 $4 James Swan Co. 15 $4 Jennings Pat Greenlee 4,5,6,7,11*,15,16,16 $5 (*in plastic sealant) Greenlee (single spur) 11 $5 S&H Co. Red Devil 12 $3 Snell Mfg Co 11 $3 Snells 12 $4 Jennings Mephisto 10,12 $3 Waives Mfg Co (single spur) Vulcan 6 $3 Zenith 12 $3 YANKEE SCREWDRIVER BITS [will discount on multiple orders - 3+] *********************** The following are new old stock made by STANLEY TOOLS and sealed in plastic on a card with YANKEE printed in horizontal letters on the card parallel to the bit length: 68-374 Phillips #1 for Yankee #31 and #131 (2) $4 68-340 3/16" Slotted for Yankee #30 and #130 (15) $4 The following are new old stock made by STANLEY TOOLS and sealed in plastic on a card with YANKEE printed in vertical letters on the card parallel to the bit length: 68-342 1/4" Slotted for Yankee #30 and #130 (2) $4 Loose Bits w/"YANKEE" logo: 301S Phillips #2 1/4" shaft - #30 & #130 (1) $5 302S Phillips #2 1/4" shaft - #30 & #130 (1) $5 303 Phillips #3 1/4" shaft - #30 & #130 (1) $5 3011 7/32" slotted 1/4" shaft - #30 & #130 (1) $5 3112 9/32" slotted 5/16" shaft - #31 & #131 (1) $5 3113 5/16" slotted 5/16" shaft - #31 & #131 (1) $5 no # 1/4" slotted 5/16" shaft - #31 & #131 (1) $3 ++++ End of thread 18933 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18934 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42755 (thread 18934) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-05 19:55:00 Subject: King Solomons mine 2 O BTW - he mentioned that he had a few years ago a 4 foot wooden plane the some guy just kept bugging him about and he finally sold it to him for $20.00 - sounds like a coopers tool to me ! what so ya think Paddy aaron. ? shoufl I tape our discussions and produce an audio tape - A Minnesota Galoot Tells Tales ? -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18934 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18935 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42759 (thread 18935) ---- From: Stieglitz, Michael (NJAOST) Date: 1998-05-05 21:37:00 Subject: Tool hunting between Philadelphia and Cleveland I'll be driving back and forth between Philly and Cleveland in a week and a half and was hoping someone could suggest one or two good places to stop if one were shopping for old tools. Michael Stieglitz Mstieglitz@n... ++++ End of thread 18935 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18936 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42761 (thread 18936) ---- From: Bob Brode Date: 1998-05-05 21:40:00 Subject: FS: Tools If possible, please visit my web page for the glossy 8x10s: http://modigliani.brandx.net/user/bbrode/tools_for_sale Otherwise, here's the alphanumerics. ============================================ Two large bevel edged chisels: ($34) I. Sorby, blade 1 1/2 x 7 1/2, large (1 1/2 x 5) oblong boxwood handle with nice patina and brass ferrule. ($20) Herring Bros., London, 1 7/16 x 3 1/2, large (1 1/2 x 5 shaped beech handle (but old, with nice patina).  "Prize Medal" on blade back. ---------------------------------------- Square-edged British chisels with boxwood London-pattern (octagonal with shaped ends) handles.  I suspect the handles are old replacements, but the boxwood is in great shape. A couple of the handles are slightly loose.  No rust or pitting, with one minor exception as noted. ($55)  Set of four, all by Mathieson. 1 x 6 1/2, 1/2 x 3 5/8, 3/8 x 2 3/4, 3/16 x 3 1/4.  (The smallest has a patch of pitting well back of the edge.) ($25)  Set of two.  5/8 x 4 (Woodcock/Sheffield), 1/4 x 2 3/4. ($22)  Set of two.  1/2 x 3 1/2, 1/4 x 3. ---------------------------------------- ($55) Preston rabbeting shave, #1386.  Has both left and right sash-fillister-style fences (designed to cut a tongue of constant thickness, e.g. for sash work).  In very good condition overall. Full-length original cutter Black japanning is so-so; about 75% or more, but thin.  ---------------------------------------- ($55) A pair of side rounds.  No commercial marks, but look to be professionally made.  Same set of owner's marks.  About 3/8-1/2" radius.  The mouths have been opened slightly.  Irons and bodies/wedges in very good condition. ---------------------------------------- Japanese Mortise Chisels Fresh from the Kyoto flea market, these are true mortise chisels, with beefy blades -- depth is much greater than width.  Edges and bevels are in generally good condition.  No pittingon backs, with one slight exception noted below.  These have the typical japanese combination tang/socket construction. All except one have original Japanese white oak handles with steel hoops at striking ends.  (This particular kind of oak is quite different from N.A. white oak, and more resembles a live oak, i.e. relatively dense with less pores.) I like these chisels very much; the relatively short but thick shank and the steel end hoop give them a nice balance and a feeling of control in the hand (well, my hand anyway. :^)  If you haven't seem them, they have relatively short blades, with a gracefully formed neck between the blade and the handle. Max mortise Price Width depth Remarks $20 3/32 3/4 $20 1/8 1 1/2 Especially deep blade.  Old patina on handle. $26 1/4- 2 1/2 (6mm) $20 1/4 2 1/2+ The handle may be a replacement. $22 9/32- 2 1/2 Some pitting on bottom, but well away from edge. $20 5/16+ 2 1/2+ Somewhat smaller in relation to blade width. $18 11/32 2 1/2 Some pitting on sides and top; cosmetic only. $24 11/32+ 2 1/4 (9mm) ---------------------------------------- Brass-backed saws   I'll sharpen these before sending them (unless you don't want me to), and they're guaranteed to be excellent users. ($30) R. Sorby 14" 11 1/2 ppi crosscut. 2 1/8 blade depth.  Shiny blade metal, comfy undamaged handle with nice patina.  Three split nuts, with Sorby medallion. Spine reads "Rob't. Sorby/Cast Steel/[Kangaroo t'mark] Sheffield".  Only apology is the relatively shallow blade -- which is still plenty, however, for most joinery crosscutting.  (I've got a very similar one myself that I use a lot.) ($50) A. Hodgson ("41 Lower Head/LEEDS" on spine.) [Vendor, not maker?] 14", 11ppi rip.  Depth tapers from 2 7/8 to 2 3/8.  Minor pitting, doesn't affect function. Small chips off upper and lower horn.  Three split nuts, however the medallion nut was replaced in olden times with a machine screw/nut and two special washers.  However, it's acquired a patina that makes it blend in quite nicely. Honest. Really. ---------------------------------------- Adzes ($35) A cooper's adze.  This is the kind with a threaded rod through the length of the handle, for easily detaching the head for sharpening.  (Which it needs, though otherwise in very good condition.) ($120) A French [cooper's] bowl adze.  One of the most wicked-looking tools I've ever seen, with a long, wide (6"+) sharply curved (dips more than 1 1/4") thin edge, very deep.  About 8" of the old/original cormier wood handle protrudes.  Maker's mark "THIBBAUD". Overall in very good shape, and with a sharpening will be capable of some very heavy work. ($75)  A half-size version of the above -- 4" edge.  Otherwise extremely similar. In good condition, but needs sharpening. ================================================= Bob Brode ++++ End of thread 18936 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18937 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42762 (thread 18937) ---- From: Dave Weisbord Date: 1998-05-06 00:02:00 Subject: WTB: A Shot in the Dark I've been successful at finding obscure things on the list before (such as violin makers planes, and an incredible tool box full of engraving tools) so here goes! I am looking for a Chariot Plane or something similar to tackle thcknessing of highly figured, relatively small pieces of wood (guitar sides). A chariot plane seemed like an obvious answer, but would also consider a small wooden smoother, user grade infill, or incredible block plane. My many block planes, even well tuned up do not adequately do what I want them to do - that is thickness and smooth flamed maple without tear out or threat of breaking the thin maple guitar sides. I currently scrape the sides to their final dimension, but need something really good to do the thicknessing/smoothing. I'M also not looking to spend a bundle and am considering purchasing Tim kelly's Chariot Plane, but thought I'd try all of Galootdom first. Dave ---- Start of Message 42766 (thread 18937) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-06 00:57:00 Subject: Re: WTB: A Shot in the Dark Dave Weisbord Wrote: >or incredible block >plane. My many block planes, even well tuned up do not adequately do what >I want them to do - that is thickness and smooth flamed maple without >tear out or threat of breaking the thin maple guitar sides. I currently >scrape the sides to their final dimension, but need something really good >to do the thicknessing/smoothing. You did not say how big the workpieces are. There is a minature plane and scraper available. I do work on highly figured maple, walnut and cherry. For small pieces I use a #60 1/2, set with a very fine mouth, blade honed at 20 degrees and a 5 degree back bevel. Scraper wise, a number 81 with rosewood provides very low resistance fine cutting. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 42769 (thread 18937) ---- From: Rodney Myrvaagnes Date: 1998-05-06 04:25:00 Subject: Planing curly maple, was Re: WTB: A Shot in the Dark I don't have anything to sell you, but one way of handling curly maple is to scar it with a toothing plane, then use a scraper. Alternate the two until you get to thickness. I bought a new toothing plane from Woodcraft (Ott, German) but that was in 1972. I expect that Woodcraft, Garret Wade, or somebody sells such. If not, they may sell a toothing-plane iron, and you could make your own. Or maybe, someone on the porch has one to sell you. On Tue, 5 May 98 16:02:14 -0800, Dave Weisbord wrote: I want them to do - that is thickness and smooth flamed maple without tear out or threat of breaking the thin maple guitar sides. I currently scrape the sides to their final dimension, but need something really good to do the thicknessing/smoothing. Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a 20+ years without a car, a TV, or a website ++++ End of thread 18937 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18938 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42764 (thread 18938) ---- From: Cougarjack Cougarjack@a... Date: 1998-05-05 19:34:00 Subject: Re: electronic spam prevention Advisory to Paul Pedersen on SPAM:From: Cougarjack Cougarjack@a... To: pedersen@i... Subject: Re: electronic spam prevention Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:32:46 EDT Organization: AOL Snip snip Paul's despondent plea for help.... Paul, Go to your local electronics place and get a phone connector, and make up an adaptor. On one end, crimp an rj-11 phone connector, on the other end, place a 240 volt 30 amp AC clothes dryer plug. First, email the ISP and complain about the spam. When they say "they would be shocked if the spam was coming from them....", tell them ok, connect to their web server, and let'em have it! I once resolved a service dispute with cable TV this way. Nick, who knows Paul would be shocked if the spam continued! (this is a humorous note, and this cannot really be done, so don't email me saying that your kid read this and tried it!)

++++ End of thread 18938 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18939 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42768 (thread 18939) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-05 22:18:00 Subject: wise guy fesses up! Esteemed galoots, (properly subdued look here) I committed a no-no on the list....I posted a message with an attachment (a forwarded piece of mail) without understanding how it adversely affects the listserv software. List Mom sent me a very polite and patient note explaining same. If the next digest gets nuked, blame me for my ignorance, and accept my apologies. It HAD to be a smart-a$$ note that I screwed up on, not one loaded with technical stuff..sigh..I promise to redeem myself with at least TWO excellent, technical, over-written, unnecessarily verbose, thought-provoking posts! (cowers back in his corner and cringes...) Thanks, Mom! Nick ++++ End of thread 18939 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18940 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42772 (thread 18940) ---- From: Patrick Colbeck Date: 1998-05-06 07:36:00 Subject: Combination plane Hi I was at a car boot sale this weekend and picked up a couple of things. A #4 Stanley and a nice small backsaw. I don't really know too much about this yet as I am just starting but one thing confused me. I saw two Record combination planes and a couple of Stanleys, the thing is the Records had the nice scale like pattern on the handles whereas the Stanleys had plain handles. In all the pictures I have seen it is Stanleys that have the patterned handles (these were all metal planes like a Stanley #50). Can anyone elucidate ? By the way these were all priced at arround £10 UK (about $15) I am not sure how old they were though, did I pass up a bargain ? Pat ---- Start of Message 42805 (thread 18940) ---- From: Thomas E. McCluskey Date: 1998-05-07 02:54:00 Subject: Re: Combination plane Pat If they had the blades and were in usable shape, AND, you could use them, then you passed up a bargain. Just go back and get them and send them to me. I will pay $15 or 10 pounds for them plus shipping, plus VAT, plus export duties plus other gov't overhead. BTW, I am in Texas. Tom - Member in good standing of the Ancient and Honorable order of Bottomfeeders (AHOB). (By permission) On Wed, 6 May 1998 08:36:13 +0100 Patrick Colbeck pat.colbeck@e... writes: >Hi > >I was at a car boot sale this weekend and picked up a couple of >things. A >#4 Stanley and a nice small backsaw. I don't really know too much >about t= >his >yet as I am just starting but one thing confused me. I saw two Record >combination planes and a couple of Stanleys, the thing is the Records >had >the nice scale like pattern on the handles whereas the Stanleys had >plain >handles. In all the pictures I have seen it is Stanleys that have the >patterned handles (these were all metal planes like a Stanley #50). >Can >anyone elucidate ? By the way these were all priced at arround =A310 >UK (= >about >$15) I am not sure how old they were though, did I pass up a bargain ? > >Pat > >---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 44295 (thread 18940) ---- From: "William K. Taggart" Date: 1998-06-02 03:42:00 Subject: Re: combination plane For those of you who were sending me messages, trying to help me figure out what the interesting combination plane was that I saw in a museum in Peoria, IL, here's the answer: DON BOSSE wrote: > > Hello Bill, > > The plane your referring to is an M.C Mayo, and they are beautiful and > fairly rare. [SNIP] > > Sincerely, > > Don Bosse I knew it was M.C. something that began with "M" - I kept saying M.C. Myers... Thanks!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ William K. Taggart (Bill) Califon, NJ (On the road - in Chicago) wkt@i... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ++++ End of thread 18940 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18941 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42773 (thread 18941) ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 1998-05-06 09:26:00 Subject: who wants a plane iron Sorry to burden the List with this, but I have lost the name of someone who wants a 2 1/8 back iron to make a plane around. Trevor ++++ End of thread 18941 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18942 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42774 (thread 18942) ---- From: Lawrie Silverberg Date: 1998-05-06 10:59:00 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Question It's called Natural and definitely exists. I have a tin downstairs. >Oak, etc) but did not see a clear. Did not look very hard for one >though. > Lawrie >FYI, Bruce ++++ End of thread 18942 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18943 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42776 (thread 18943) ---- From: Tony Blanks Date: 1998-05-06 12:25:00 Subject: Ken Roberts' Web Page Hi Folk, I would be grateful if someone would send me the URL for Ken's page. I thought I had it, but if I do I can't find it. Many thanks, Tony ---- Start of Message 42797 (thread 18943) ---- From: Jim Peden Date: 1998-05-06 22:51:00 Subject: Re: Ken Roberts' Web Page I didn't know that Ken had a web page. Does he make copies of his books available there? Jim Tony Blanks wrote: > Hi Folk, > > I would be grateful if someone would send me the URL for Ken's page. I > thought I had it, but if I do I can't find it. > > Many thanks, > > Tony > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 18943 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18944 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42777 (thread 18944) ---- From: Nat H Date: 1998-05-07 01:13:00 Subject: dovetail video Dang! I just trashed the info someone was good enough to send me on where to buy the Claus(sp) video on making dovetails and mortices. Can ya' send me another? Thanks, Nat Hooper Oxford, Arkansas There IS more to life than sitting wondering if there is more to life. ++++ End of thread 18944 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18945 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42778 (thread 18945) ---- From: Jimlemon Date: 1998-05-06 09:13:00 Subject: Re: WTB: A Shot in the Dark/suggestion Dave- As a sometime luthier, I can't see the advantage in a chariot plane; what's your reasoning behind this choice, if I might ask? Personally, I would go with some sort of scraper plane like a #112 (Don't panic- I got mine for thirty bucks. Just have to keep yout eyes open.) This after a very sharp #4 set fine to bring to rough thickness. Any way you look at it, it's elbow grease and blisters. Good luck- Jim ++++ End of thread 18945 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18946 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42780 (thread 18946) ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 1998-05-06 14:30:00 Subject: Tools by Nikole Kaitlin Roach Tools By Nikole age:3 years, 0 months As told by her Cumpa Hammo (said with forceful exuberance and a blazing gleam to the eye) translation: my favorite. stand squarely up in the middle of the rack- look them all over hard - pick me a good sure hammo- watch the fingos (fingers)- wild wonderful fun - tap it in again Bise fingos fingos fingos! that big handle slide is way cool, but bite my fingos - don't trust it for a second Chisso Shorp part is very small- right on the end - cut funny little magic stuff in a little spot - Cumpa worry about me, but I'm good Sphaaaave (or whatever cumpa calls it, that long thing with the handles on each side and the shorp part in the middle) Big shorp part - big power - take a strong stance and pulllll - squeal as wood pours out - grab curlies and break them up - watch those fingos Paane -(#2 size) dive a coou (drive like a car) - wide curls come out - see the smooth wood - I'm good - and BIG I go downstairs play tools wis cumpa - mommie don't bug us - we play scwroos and plioos (pliers) and wrench and little wood buttons and I habe little woorkbench, just my size. MY Cumpa lub me -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * scottg@s... PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * scottg@s... PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ ++++ End of thread 18946 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18947 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42781 (thread 18947) ---- From: Paul F Gillespie Date: 1998-05-06 14:24:00 Subject: Screwdriver Question Hail Gregarious Galoots! I haven't had much time to contribute to the list, but in order to keep my membership in good standing, I thought I would ask my quarterly question. T'other day, I was browsing a flea, when I noticed this screwdriver. It was on the large side, maybe 12 inches long, including the handle. Now, I typically don't go in for screwdrivers, but this one was different. The handle had two half moon-shaped metal projections (wings) sticking out of the sides. These projections were sandwiched by two pieces of wood which completed the handle. There was no name on the screwdriver, but I'm sure someone out there knows who made this thing, the handle was that distinctive. Any info to satisfy my curiosity would be greatly appreciated. (No, I didn't buy it as the dealer was nowhere in sight and I was on my way to work.) Thanks in advance. Paul Gillespie Philada, PA ---- Start of Message 42790 (thread 18947) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-06 20:54:00 Subject: Re: Screwdriver Question Paul Gillespie gave up lurking to tell us about a screwdriver: > It was on the large side, maybe 12 inches long, including the >handle. Now, I typically don't go in for screwdrivers, but this one >was >different. The handle had two half moon-shaped metal projections >(wings) >sticking out of the sides. These projections were sandwiched by two >pieces >of wood which completed the handle. There was no name on the >screwdriver, >but I'm sure someone out there knows who made this thing, the handle >was >that distinctive. Paul, it's hard to be sure from your description (with the half-moons and all), but it's probably a "Perfect Handle" tool. You'll find such handles on screwdrivers and wrenches (and occasionally hammers, although these may not be official Perfect Handle tools) The Perfect Handle design is a piece of flat piece of steel about 1/4" thick that starts at the shaft, widens and tapers again to define a cross-section of the handle, with two pieces of wood above and below the steel held with 2 or 3 rivets through the entire sandwich. The assembled sandwich is oval in cross-section perpendicular to the shaft. Hmmmm, I guess my description is no better than your half-moons. I'll admit to being fairly ignorant about the history of the Pefect Handle line; I'm no wrench guy, but you can't help finding them now and again. Certainly some folks collect 'em. For that matter, I kept a set of 3 PH screwdrivers ranging in size from normal to huge, inadvertantly bought as part of a $2 box lot. They look cool, in a galoot sort of way. Cheers, Don ++++ End of thread 18947 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18948 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42782 (thread 18948) ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 1998-05-06 16:15:00 Subject: Rocket Science (was butchering benches and stuff) Ted plays the "it ain't rocket science card", wrt building bench bases. Of course it's not... if you have a bench. For the galoot who simply cannot take it any more, who can no longer suffer the embarrassment of pounding mortices on a busted workmutt, who can't use a hand saw because the flat surface he refers to as a bench wobbles more than a Mexican's knees on Cinco de Mayo (or an Irshman's knees on St. Paddy's Day), then the cast iron legs are a quick and easy way to knock out a bootstrap bench. Cheap, it's not, relatively speaking. Basically, I'd come to the end of my woodworking rope, with respect to my workmutt, and it was either have an instant bench, or take the pipe. I consulted a few of the ponytailed and Birkenstock-attired folks who work around here, and they all agreed that building a nice trestle base for a cabinetmaker's workbench was much more difficult than calculating the latest sling-shot around Venus for the Cassini spacecraft, so in truth, you guys are right. Building a base isn't rocket science, it's harder than rocket science! Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU -- Old tools and old fools: a dangerous combination http://www.concentric.net/~odeen/oldtools ---- Start of Message 42825 (thread 18948) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-07 13:52:00 Subject: Re: Rocket Science (was butchering benches and stuff) At 12:15 PM 5/6/98 -0400, Patrick Olguin wrote: > >Of course it's not... if you have a bench. > I did all the work of building my bench on a pair of sawhorses. Including wielding the mother of all mortising chisels while working my way through the black locust legs. Used a couple of techniques, first off to keep piece and the sawhorses from bouncing around too much, I made a loop of rope just long enough that I could loop it around the piece and stick my one foot in the other end to hold the piece down. The trick here is to make the loop just long enough so that your heel rests on the floor. As far as mortising goes, the first one took me about 2 weeks, by the end, I got it down to about 1 hour per mortise. (We are talking 2x4 mortices though 4" of black locust). Because the locust is so dense (and I didn't have a beam boring machine at that time), the larger T-auger bits and even a NOS 1 1/2 Irwin brace bit, wouldn't pull through because the lead screw would load up. The largest one I was able to get through was a 3/4, so I drilled 3 of those across each end of the mortise and chopped down toward the holes. Got one side a little over 1/3 thru, then flipped the piece and got another 1/3 or so through..then just blasted (big chisel..big mallet) the rest up. Cleaned it up with a 1 1/2 paring chisel and, gentleman..we have a mortise. Tony ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Intercourse, PA ________________________________________________________ ---- Start of Message 42841 (thread 18948) ---- From: Bill Backstrom Date: 1998-05-07 17:08:00 Subject: Re: Rocket Science (was butchering benches and stuff) On Wed, 6 May 1998, Patrick Olguin wrote: > Ted plays the "it ain't rocket science card", wrt building bench bases. > > Of course it's not... if you have a bench. Tom Caspar published an article called "Workbench In A Weekend" in the October 96 issue of Woodwork magazine. He designed the bench for the person who didn't have already have a bench, very many tools, or a lot of money. No fancy joinery required. The bench is built from four torsion boxes constructed from construction grade 2x4s and two sheets of plywood. The framework of the boxes is made from the 2x4s. The plywood forms the skin of the boxes. The boxes are held together by glue, and (lots of) screws to clamp the skins to the framework while the glue dries. The base is made up of three of the boxes connected by threaded steel rod. The fourth box is the top and includes a tool well. A dog block is bolted onto the front edge. The base from the top looks a capital 'I', sort of like: -- -- ||____________|| +|____________|+ || || -- -- Two boxes form the ends, the other forms the center. Steel rod runs the length of the center and through the ends and holds it all together. The thing can be built with basic hand tools, though a circular saw helps for slicing up the plywood, and a *l*ctr*c drill is almost a necessity for driving the many screws before the glue sets. With a face vise (like a record 52 1/2) the bench is heavy and solid. It will not move, or rack. The one disadvantage is you cannot really flatten the top by planing. But if your 2x4s are fairly straight, or made straight, the top will be pretty flat. Mine is close enough, and I didn't even own a hand plane when I built it (thanks, I'm much better now). Alternatively, you could just build the base and put a conventional top on it. Cost for the whole thing (excluding the vise and tools) around $150. Oh, it comes apart if you need to move it too. > Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU > --- Bill Backstrom, StorageTek - Network Systems Group. "Bill Gates is only a white persian cat and a monocle away from being the villain in a James Bond movie." --Dennis Miller ---- Start of Message 42845 (thread 18948) ---- From: Mike Weaver Date: 1998-05-07 18:04:00 Subject: Re: Rocket Science (was butchering benches and stuff) Anthony Seo tonyseo@p... writes: > At 12:15 PM 5/6/98 -0400, Patrick Olguin wrote: > > > >Of course it's not... if you have a bench. > > > I did all the work of building my bench on a pair of sawhorses. I just wanted to chime in with 'me too!' post. As a matter of fact, even though the trestles for my base are done, my benchtop (still in 2 pieces) is *still* on the sawhorses. Admittedly, my sawhorses were shop-made, and quite sturdy. Too light though, so I put some iron weights on the shelf that's on one of the sawhorses, and when I need to plane things on my not-quite-ready-for-primetime bench, I just clamp it to the base, and it doesn't move (top is 2.5" laminated hard maple). > lead screw would load up. The largest one I was able to get through was > a 3/4, so I drilled 3 of those across each end of the mortise and > chopped down toward the holes. Got one side a little over 1/3 thru, > then flipped the piece and got another 1/3 or so through..then just > blasted (big chisel..big mallet) the rest up. Cleaned it up with a 1 > 1/2 paring chisel and, gentleman..we have a mortise. My mortises are similarly sized, but in red oak. I was able to drill with a 1" bit. Lucky me, eh? Later, -Mike ----------------- Michael P. Weaver Email: mikew@u... Database Program Administrator Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250 Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's. ++++ End of thread 18948 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18949 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42784 (thread 18949) ---- From: Dave Weisbord Date: 1998-05-06 20:45:00 Subject: Re: WTB: A Shot in the Dark/SOLUTION? Well maybe I've solved my own problem here. Just checked the L-N web site and they are now producing toothed blades for their small bronze block planes. I've tried these planes before and they are very nice. WIth the addition of the toothed blade they might just be the ticket for my figured wood problem. Anyone know why our friend Ron Hock doesn't make toothed blades? Not enough call for them I'd guess. Dave ++++ End of thread 18949 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18950 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42785 (thread 18950) ---- From: Ed O'Riordan Date: 1998-05-06 19:36:00 Subject: Bio: Ed O'Riordan My name is Ed O'Riordan. I live in Canton, Mass (a little south of Boston) in a house built in 1860. I like old houses, old cars (1964 to 1973, ok old fast cars that do it honestly with massive fuel guzzling engines and no computers), and old tools. I recently started acquiring old tools. I have always built/took apart/fixed/destroyed things (got taken to the hospital as an infant after taking apart a TV and eating some parts). I got bit by the old tool bug a few years back when I happened into a almost mint #18 type 2 for cheap money. I sharpened it and started using it, and was amazed at how nice it felt and worked. As it was my first block plane (I got a few smoothers and jacks from my father), I thought maybe I just needed more block planes. So I bought a nice shiney new English manufactured low angle block plane and went to use it, and found that it didn't work as well nor feel as good the old #18. Quickly figuring out that I needed old tools, I started keeping an eye out at yard sales and antique stores. I didn't have much luck. A couple of months back I happened to find eBay and was stunned that they had a tool category. I have bought a couple of things there, and this really fed the bug for acquiring more. As a result of further poking I found this group, Blood and Gore, and Walter's book. I just got back from a vacation where I convinced my wife that we needed to drive a couple of hours out of our way to go see an antique store that specialized in tools and country furniture (little did I know that they only had tools). So while I killed an hour in the store she amused our 18 month old in the car (tip of the day: you can get alone time in a tool store by in the past being responsible for watching a small child, and then having your wife find said small child playing with a chisel in your tool glazed presence). As I returned to the car carrying my purchase she remarked "What number is that?". Thinking that she was sarcastically commenting on the vast quantity of cast iron I have been hauling to the basement of late, I sheepishly replied "Yeah, but this is the first one of these". Her reply? "No, ...what number is it?" Quickly realizing that she meant "what NUMBER is it?", I responded, "it is an 8". I have decided that I like them both. Ed O' ++++ End of thread 18950 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18951 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42786 (thread 18951) ---- From: Sam Peterson Date: 1998-05-06 21:08:00 Subject: Folk Art: Willow whistles & Rain Indicators Gentle Galoots, The topic of willow whistles was skirted briefly a long time ago. Since it is springtime and the time is right, lets get the whistleblowers up to the front of the porch and tell us how it is done. Perhaps one of these people will also explain the making of a "rain indicator/Humidity indicator". Thanks! ---- Start of Message 42798 (thread 18951) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-06 22:51:00 Subject: Re: Folk Art: Willow whistles & Rain Indicators Sam, Weather indicators...around here we refer to them as 'Pine Barrens Weather Rocks". You construct thusly: Make a shallow dog-house sort of affair from cedar or pine, but leave off the front, and don't close up the roof angle completely. In other words, leave an opening right at the ridge, about an inch wide. Turn in a big long screw eye at the apex of the back board, and hang from this screw eye a creek stone or common beach pebble, by affixing a string. Make sure it is free to sway back and forth. Now go hang it in a a strategic place so you can see it clearly from your favorite kitchen window. How does it work, you ask? Well, when the rock is wet, it's humid, when the rock is white, it's snowing. When you can't see the rock, it's foggy, and when the rock swings back and forth, it's windy! As simple as these things are, they beat Accu-weather by 20 percentage points in accuracy. Next week: Infallible tide predictor! Nick, always helpful ---- Start of Message 42814 (thread 18951) ---- From: Roger Birkhead Date: 1998-05-07 12:42:00 Subject: Re: Folk Art: Willow whistles & Rain Indicators Sam Peterson wrote: > Gentle Galoots, > > The topic of willow whistles was skirted briefly a long time ago. Since it is > springtime and the time is right, lets get the whistleblowers up to the front > of the porch and tell us how it is done. Perhaps one of these people will > also explain the making of a "rain indicator/Humidity indicator". > > Thanks! Ummmm. I guess that would be me. I still have the originals of my drawings and instructions. At the risk of being flooded, I will again offer to snail mail them to anyone who would like a copy. If someone would like a copy to scan in and put on a website that would be cool too. Don't know nuthin 'bout rain/humidity indicators. Down here in south Georgia the forecast is always the same...no rain and 80% humidity. Roger...who once saw on a bumper sticker, "It's not the heat...It's the stupidity." ===================================================================== Roger D. Birkhead Phone (912) 734-4706 Tortoise Guy Fax (912) 734-6650 J.W. Jones Ecological Research Center E-mail: rbirkhea@j... Route 2 Box 2324 Newton, GA 31770 ++++ End of thread 18951 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18952 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42787 (thread 18952) ---- From: Sam Peterson Date: 1998-05-06 21:01:00 Subject: Sealing green wood Gentle Galoots, Usually I will melt old candles and seal the ends of green wood with same. I have also used exterior house paint. Not the greatest idea, but its better than nothing. I am working on a shaving horse that is green wood and wondered if boiled linseed oil would prevent cracking? If not, I may go ahead and put wax on the ends. Thanks! ---- Start of Message 42800 (thread 18952) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-06 22:06:00 Subject: Re: Sealing green wood Sam & esteemed galoots: Sealing green wood.... If you recall previous descriptions, we decided that wood is nothing more than a column of cemented bundles of vessels, all of which are created by the tree to transport liquids up, down, and radially thru the wood structure. Picture a section thru a log like a bundle of soda straws. Naturally, liquids/vapors are going to have an easier time of travelling thru the tubes, rather than thru the walls of the tubes. Similiarly, wood passes moisture and other gasses/liquids along the axis of these vessels more readily than it does thru the more solid walls of them. Somewhere around 50% of the weight of green wood is water. It is held inside the wood in two ways. The first is of course the water which happened to be enroute thru the tree's vascular system when it was cut. That will be first to evaporate or run out when the wood begins drying. The second is the water which is actually bound up in the individual cell walls, and that takes more time to be released. We want this to happen quickly enough so that our wood doesn't mildew and rot, but not so quickly that the sudden change in volume causes physical collapse of the vessel structures, thereby checking our wood. The best way discovered so far to bring this magic about is to retard the passage of moisture thru the tree's up and down vascular system. Since these vessels are very open and patent we can easily seal the ends of them by coating the cut end of the log with a sealer. It doesn't really matter what is used, as long as it has two properties: One, it needs to stick to green wet wood. Two, it needs to have some moisture barrier properties. There are commercial products available, similar to the blue and red stuff you see on the ends of framing lumber. Remember we said it had to RETARD the passage of moisture, not arrest it. I have successfully used paints, glues, sealers, and asphalt products during the time I have been harvesting wood. I can rate them as follows: 1. Regular blue and red log-sealing stuff, like the commercial sawmills use on the ends of them Home Depot 2x4's..... but don't ask me where to get it...I strongly suspect this to be Kool-ade. If anyone knows about this substance, please share with me! 2. Oil-based paints and primers...these can even be thinned to go farther. Red oxide and red lead based primers seem to work best, if they can be had cheaply. Get a 5 gallon bucket and stand at the next Earth Day cleanup your town sponsors. Encourage folks to pour their oil based paints into your can. This is free, which makes it the best product by far to use. Exterior latex would seem to follow, lacking oil-based products, but choose oil based if possible. 3. Asphalt roofing products...these sometimes have a tendency to peel off, so make sure you have a "wet roof" type of patch for best results. Thin with kerosene for best adhesion. They are messy at saw time. 4. Acrylic based glues and adhesives...applied straight out of the container, they do the job, but one usually doesn't find them packaged in containers of sufficient quantity to do very many log ends. Included in these would be carpenter's glue, white all-purpose glue, (the cow stuff) 5. Commercial sealers....these are actually designed to do the job correctly, but are underutilized because of the high price. Nurseries and tree places can usually get it for you. FWW magazine also carries ads for it in various brand names. 6. In an emergency, use anything you have on hand. Use grease, baby food, cooked cereal, rug shampoo, or chocolate syrup. You can always cut off the dead end later to discard the mess. The point is that few folks really understand how quickly the damage begins after a tree has fallen. Get it coated BEFORE you limb the log, for best quality lumber. This means minutes! Any delay will show up later as end checking! A sealed log is a happy log! Don't forget that the very ends of any board or log will always be the driest. What we tend to forget is to re-seal the end grain after we cross cut a piece of lumber. Unless it's kiln-dried down to a very low moisture content, cutting or planing exposes wood that was previously less exposed, therefore, higher in moistrue content. Sealing end grain after crosscutting will help lower your disapointments as it will help retard end checking and cupping. Compare this to a good frozen steak....you wouldn't cut off a piece, then return the steak to the freezer unwrapped, would you? What we call freezer burn is actually moisture loss. Wood behaves the same way. As soon as it it placed in an area of lesser moisture content than its own interior, it begins anew losing moisture. You cannot stop moisture migration from the side grain, (So THAT'S what the bark is for!) but this migration is so slow that it causes little damage. Just be sure to stop the loss from the end grain if possible. Woods with very large medullary rays may be prone to faster water loss thru the side grain however. Be careful of the oaks, beech, and any other wood which displays prominent rays on the quartered surfaces. These rays are actually bundles of vessels that run from the bark to the heart radially thru the wood structure. Dry them a bit slower, in a covered building if possible, and in a tighter stack with less end grain exposed to open air. Predictions of dire consequences aside, remember that trees grow mostly outdoors, and thus are somewhat weatherproof as long as they are GROWING. It's when we interrupt this growth process that the trouble begins. Nick, who wooden kid about this subject... ---- Start of Message 42809 (thread 18952) ---- From: Steve Noe Date: 1998-05-07 11:37:00 Subject: Re: Sealing green wood Sam Peterson writes >I am working on a shaving horse that is green wood and >wondered if boiled linseed oil would prevent cracking? If not, I may go >ahead >and put wax on the ends. I was BS'ing, one time, with the carpenter at Conner Prairie (1836 living history site), while he was turning a wheel hub out of Osage orange. He slathered on the linseed oil, and swore by it. OTOH, there was a loud "CRACK" from the vicinity of the lathe, just as I was leaving. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis (who has to remember this is OldTools, not BioLab, so frogs are metal, and do NOT have a gastrocnemius) snoe749@i... ---- Start of Message 42872 (thread 18952) ---- From: Keeney Charles Date: 1998-05-07 23:46:00 Subject: RE: Sealing green wood Nick wrote: > I have successfully used paints, glues, sealers, and > asphalt products during the time I have been harvesting wood. I can > rate them > as follows: > 1. Regular blue and red log-sealing stuff > 2. Oil-based paints and primers > 3. Asphalt roofing products > 4. Acrylic based glues and adhesives > 5. Commercial sealers....these are actually designed to do the job > correctly, > but are underutilized because of the high price. Nurseries and tree > places can > usually get it for you. FWW magazine also carries ads for it in > various brand > names. > 6. In an emergency, use anything you have on hand. Use grease, baby > food, > cooked cereal, rug shampoo, or chocolate syrup. You can always cut > off the > dead end later to discard the mess > Please note that massive editing occurred here and you should see Nick's 7 May post for complete content. My question, Nick, is what about the commercial sealers such as Thompson's, Floods, etc. sealers that many of us purchase at the local hardware emporium and use for sealing our decks and fencing. Did you include these in #5 or one of the other categories? What is your opinion with these products? These products are relatively inexpensive and commonly available but a concern that I have is that these products penetrate too far up the wood and then require excessive trimming of the contaminated wood. thx, --charles ---- Start of Message 42890 (thread 18952) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-07 22:27:00 Subject: Re: Sealing green wood Charles, While I didn't intend to include those types of products, I have in fact used most of them to seal wood agaist mosture damage after finishing a project. I find Flood's products to be excellent in every respect, and Thompson's is almost an institution in the wood trades. Regarding the use of any of these to seal end grain in green logs, I reason that they would work well, PROVIDED that your particular product contains NO SILICONES. I would not rely upon the label either, but rather call the 800 number on the can to talk to the lab guys. Silicone is the only contaminant I would worry about in later finishing issues. The best thing to do is try a few of these products and see what sort of finishing problems they create, but most of them advertise that they can be painted over. Silicone products DO NOT state this. Let's not forget that a lot of waxes and resins in these products are manufactured from wood to begin with, and thus would seem to be compatible with engineered finishes. Most of these waterproofing sealers contain a wax based solid dissolved in a very light solvent. When wet, they do tend toward unsatisfactory toxicity for daily contact. When dry or cured, what's left behind is a lot safer. You have to remember that this wood will be milled at some point. That's where polymerizing products excel...they turn into an almost inert plastic. Wax and silicone based sealers do NOT do this, but rather, they depend on the solvent to carry them deep into end grain pores and then reside there after the solvent evaporates. I would have to guess that such products would present slightly more hazard than a polymerizing finish when sawn and made into fine dust. I am guessing that the commercial sealers which big mills use on framing lumber are probably also of the solvent based type, or maybe even a waterborne resin. They really get sucked deeply into the end grain. While I've never noticed a problem caused by these sealers, I have not made many pieces of heirloom furniture from framing lumber. Re commercial hardwood lumber, I believe that Sealcoat and similar proprietary products are used almost exclusively. These are quite expensive, if not purchased in large containers. These are the ones which you see advertised in woodworking magazines. For many years, I have kept a 5 gallon bucket of mixed and thinned oil-based paint hanging from a rope on my logging wagon. As I said before, it's free if you ask folks for it, and it goes a long way. If the log ends are coated, this does away with the tiresome job of coating the end grain of every sawn plank, a messy thing at best. Once a log is up on the deck ready to be sawn, the end can readily be bucked off with a chainsaw, and recoated with a lighter or cleaner sealer. The field applied coating need not be presentation grade. Anyone who knows what's in those commercial coatings is urged to post it here so I can try some of it! Best regards, Nick "A sealed log is a happy log!" ---- Start of Message 43027 (thread 18952) ---- From: Matt Prusik Date: 1998-05-11 05:35:00 Subject: Re: Sealing green wood Nick: Can't say for sure what's in the commercially available log sealing stuff . But I use a brand called ANCHORSEAL that's available from UC Coatings in Buffalo, NY at 716-833-9366. The stuff IS water soluble and it forms an "air tight" seal over the wood to retard checking from moisture loss. It's also pretty slippery and I've even used it in place of wax on some cabinet drawers. But then again, YMMV. Good luck! Matt ++++ End of thread 18952 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18953 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42788 (thread 18953) ---- From: Sam Peterson Date: 1998-05-06 20:55:00 Subject: Screwdriver Question -Reply Sounds like one of the "Perfect Handle" line of products. A very classy line and quite collectable. Probably was also better "on the job"! I have the drawknife GLOAT FOLLOWS :) in mint condition. >Paul F Gillespie wrote: >screwdriver. It was on the large side, maybe 12 inches long, including >the handle (had two half moon-shaped metal projections (wings) >sticking out of the sides. These projections were sandwiched by two >pieces of wood which completed the handle). ++++ End of thread 18953 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18954 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42789 (thread 18954) ---- From: Lee Sudlow Date: 1998-05-06 20:30:00 Subject: StJB casting update Hi guys After a long absense from the Porch due to an unfortunate work-related downsizing - I'm back now and doing much better. Let's just say I will never voluntarily work as a substitute high school biology teacher again. I've finally gotten back to working on the St. James Bay smoother casting - that first of the great Galoot group projects. Unlike many of you project Galoots (and you know who you are) I decided to prepare the casting with the barest minimum amount of electrically powered equipment. The body of the casting was smoothed using a 14in single cut bastard file. Brothers Russ Allen and Jerry Serviss and List Mom emeritus Ralph Brendler saw the casting when it was still in its infancy at the first Galootapalooza, and parking fine festival, at Ralph's house. Then, the casting sat after the surface preparation because of a minor interruption in my work status (my boss at the university hadn't been able to fill a grant in 6 years. He ran out of money and I ran out of work). Recent developments on the casting include Quicklapping the sole (using 220 -> 1200 grit SC paper) and mouth cutting. I finally had to use a powered appliance. My grandpa's hand cranked post drill is still sitting in a barn back home. No matter how fast I tried to turn the handle on an eggbeater drill, I couldn't make any progress on constructing and opening the mouth. After resorting to a little high school geometry, I marked where the holes for the mouth should go and drilled a series of holes across the floor of the infill. The waste between the holes was removed with a dremel tool. Now the filing of the mouth has been underway for a couple of nights (a few hours here and there). I'm starting to get close to having the mouth near completion. The final fitting process for the Hock blade will be a tense time in the garage. The rosewood for the infill handle and bun has been purchased. The infill will be the next item on the agenda. Gee, by not using a grinder or power sander, I've managed to save about $0.03 worth of electricity. I did manage to spend a lot of time learning exactly how to use that mill bastard file to peel away the rough parts of the casting. Hmmm.... that's just about all of the casting. On the other hand, that small block of cast bronze and rosewood infill be priceless. I'll know every scratch and blemish by heart. Especially since I'm the dolt who put them there. I hope my children will also understand the significance and meaning of those little marks. Once it's finished, I'll find some way to get a picture of this on a website somewhere. Anyway - it is good to be back. A few more weeks of this, and I'll be ready to start the Friday stories again. Cheers Lee Sudlow Dept. of Molecular and Integrative Physiology University of Illiois, Urbana-Champaign ++++ End of thread 18954 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18955 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42791 (thread 18955) ---- From: Michael R. Shortreed Date: 1998-05-06 20:43:00 Subject: SS plane iron radius ?? Hi All. I'd like to SS a radius on one of my scrub planes but I'M CHICKEN. I haven't been sharpening long which is part of the reason. I have the veritas honing jig which seems to work fine. So far, all my plane irons have straight arris'. That's o.k. but I can't thickness stock very well with them. I'm thinking the only way to radius an iron is freehand. Come to think of it, I have seen someone use a single lag bolt through the iron slot to fix the angle. Problem is, I'm saying to myself, there is no way in h.e.double toothpicks I'm gonna be able to put on a perfectly circular radius and microbevel freehand like I can with my honing jig. Any hints/ how to's out there. Much appreciated. -michael Dr. Michael R. Shortreed Iowa State University Phone: (515) 294-1127 Rm. 7 Office & Laboratory Fax: (515) 294-3623 Ames, IA 50011 http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mshort/homepage.html ---- Start of Message 42794 (thread 18955) ---- From: Kenneth Stagg Date: 1998-05-06 21:03:00 Subject: Re: SS plane iron radius ?? Michael R. Shortreed wrote: > > .................................. Problem is, I'm saying to myself, > there is no way in h.e.double toothpicks I'm gonna be able to put on a > perfectly circular radius and microbevel freehand like I can with my > honing jig. For a heavily radiused iron: don't worry about a perfectly circular radius. There's no reason I can think of (other than absolutely optimal stock removal) to even consider a perfect radius. The one that you can get just by moving the iron in an arc actually aren't bad at all. For less heavily radiused edges (i.e. jack, jointer, smoother) I'll defer to Jeff, who I'm sure sat up when he read "So far, all my plane irons have straight arris'." :-) -Ken ---- Start of Message 42799 (thread 18955) ---- From: HeyzaD Date: 1998-05-06 21:56:00 Subject: Re: SS plane iron radius ?? In a message dated 98-05-06 17:48:02 EDT, mshort@C... writes: > Hi All. I'd like to SS a radius on one of my scrub planes but I'M > CHICKEN. I haven't been sharpening long which is part of the reason. I > have the veritas honing jig which seems to work fine. So far, all my > plane irons have straight arris'. That's o.k. but I can't thickness stock > very well with them. I'm thinking the only way to radius an iron is > freehand. The radius on a scrub plane isn't that critical and even I can manage to do one freehand. I just use side to side and rolling motions at the same time. OTOH, after a couple years I still have not been able to develop the skill to freehand irons for "regular" bench planes without rounding over the bezel (for shame). I use a Somax jig (about $15 from Woodcraft) and find it much better for doing the slight radii on those irons. The wheel on this jig is about a third the width of the Veritas which lends itself more to the alternating side pressure needed. Dennis ---- Start of Message 42806 (thread 18955) ---- From: Jeff Gorman Date: 1998-05-07 02:54:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? Kenneth Stagg wrote: > For less heavily radiused edges (i.e. jack, jointer, smoother) I'll > defer to Jeff, who I'm sure sat up when he read "So far, all my plane > irons have straight arris'." :-) No, apart from the one I keep for the shooting board and the shoulder planes, they have a camber of 3 - 4 thou. (I think it works out at about 125in radius). I've never got along with this straight edge with rounded corners business, needing to true edges. See my home page for a brief seminar on this topic. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html ---- Start of Message 42817 (thread 18955) ---- From: Michael R. Shortreed Date: 1998-05-07 12:47:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? On Thu, 7 May 1998, Jeff Gorman wrote: > No, apart from the one I keep for the shooting board and the shoulder > planes, they have a camber of 3 - 4 thou. (I think it works out at about > 125in radius). I've never got along with this straight edge with rounded > corners business, needing to true edges. Wow, that seems really small to me but also quite reasonable. I got my first aproximation of camber radius from the irons sold by Mr. Hock. Those he sells at present have 4", 5" and 6" radii. Seems dramatically different than those you discuss. This is probably just another case where I haven't picked up on the subtle points yet. Would you care to discuss the finer points? Perhaps Mr. Hock would care to jump in. BTW, here is a link to his page for reference. http://www.mcn.org/a/rhock/products.htm Thanks. -michael Dr. Michael R. Shortreed Iowa State University Phone: (515) 294-1127 Rm. 7 Office & Laboratory Fax: (515) 294-3623 Ames, IA 50011 http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mshort/homepage.html ---- Start of Message 42822 (thread 18955) ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 1998-05-07 13:36:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? Michael said: > On Thu, 7 May 1998, Jeff Gorman wrote: > > > No, apart from the one I keep for the shooting board and the shoulder > > planes, they have a camber of 3 - 4 thou. (I think it works out at about > > 125in radius). I've never got along with this straight edge with rounded > > corners business, needing to true edges. > > Wow, that seems really small to me but also quite reasonable. I got my > first aproximation of camber radius from the irons sold by Mr. Hock. > Those he sells at present have 4", 5" and 6" radii. Seems dramatically > different than those you discuss. This is probably just another case > where I haven't picked up on the subtle points yet. Would you care to > discuss the finer points? Perhaps Mr. Hock would care to jump in. BTW, > here is a link to his page for reference. > > http://www.mcn.org/a/rhock/products.htm I think Michael is discussing apples and Jeff oranges, both are round but... Ron's rounded blades are intended for compass planes and possibly scrubs. The camber Jeff is describing is a very slight curve in a basically straight blade so that the edges don't dig in and show in the finished surface if the blade is not absolutely square to the sole. Esther eoh@k... ---- Start of Message 42860 (thread 18955) ---- From: Bill Adams Date: 1998-05-07 20:09:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? Hi All. I'd like to SS a radius on one of my scrub planes but I'M CHICKEN. I haven't been sharpening long which is part of the reason. I have the veritas honing jig which seems to work fine. So far, all my plane irons have straight arris'. That's o.k. but I can't thickness stock very well with them. I'm thinking the only way to radius an iron is freehand. Come to think of it, I have seen someone use a single lag bolt through the iron slot to fix the angle. Problem is, I'm saying to myself, there is no way in h.e.double toothpicks I'm gonna be able to put on a perfectly circular radius and microbevel freehand like I can with my honing jig. Any hints/ how to's out there. Much appreciated. -michael Hi Michael, I've found that I can radius a blade by putting a finger on each corner of the blade near the and applying extra pressure to first one corner then the other as I stroke the paper. For a macho radius start with a macho grade of paper for a fine radius star a few grades finer. - L8re Bill Adams The WoodButcher's Shop "http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640 ,.-----__ ,:::://///,:::-. /:''/////// ``:::`;/|/ /' |||||| :://'` .' , |||||| `/( e -===~__-'__X_`````_____/~`-._ `. ~~ ~~ `~-' ************************************************************** * "Time was when the mystery and wonder of handicrafts * * were well acknowledged by the world, when imagination * * and fancy mingled with all things made by man; * * and in those days all craftsmen were artists." -MORRIS * ************************************************************** ---- Start of Message 42875 (thread 18955) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-07 23:41:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? >Hi All. I'd like to SS a radius on one of my scrub planes but I'M >CHICKEN. see my post on making a scrub-plane... there is a good dexplination of a jig for crowning the blade in there... ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ---- Start of Message 42913 (thread 18955) ---- From: Jeff Gorman Date: 1998-05-08 06:57:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? Esther wrote: > I think Michael is discussing apples and Jeff oranges, both are round > but... > Ron's rounded blades are intended for compass planes and possibly scrubs. > The camber Jeff is describing is a very slight curve in a basically > straight blade so that the edges don't dig in and show in the finished > surface if the blade is not absolutely square to the sole. Just so! The camber is also essential for squaring narrow edges, simply by moving the centre of the plane to the 'high' side of the edge. Like wot I sed, the homepage gives the general idea. With a 4thou camber, if the blade is set so that the corners are just below the level of the sole, the cut in the centre will be about 3thou - quite enough in even a mild hardwood for a puny type like me. Coping with difficult timbers, the set will be less, hence the shaving narrower, and the slight channels in the wood surface become shallower. You'll probably see the crests where the plane's sole has burnished the surface. The abrasive paper will get rid of these together with the signatures left as the edge degrades. Jeff, who has no hangups about the intelligent use of abrasive papers. -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html ---- Start of Message 43067 (thread 18955) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 20:25:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? . > > The camber Jeff is describing is a very slight curve in a basically > > straight blade so that the edges don't dig in and show in the finished > > surface if the blade is not absolutely square to the sole. True, although the slightly rounded corners on many smoothers will achieve the same effect. I think Jeff is partial to his radiussed blades to be used in jointing. The center of the plane is moved over the high spots on the board's edge. Gee, it's not already time for a jointing thread again is it? ---- Start of Message 43145 (thread 18955) ---- From: Jeff Gorman Date: 1998-05-12 20:40:00 Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? -----Original Message----- From: owner-oldtools@l... [mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of Bill Clouser Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 9:26 PM To: oldtools@l... Subject: RE: SS plane iron radius ?? . > > The camber Jeff is describing is a very slight curve in a basically > > straight blade so that the edges don't dig in and show in the finished > > surface if the blade is not absolutely square to the sole. True, although the slightly rounded corners on many smoothers will achieve the same effect. I think Jeff is partial to his radiussed blades to be used in jointing. The center of the plane is moved over the high spots on the board's edge. I'm partial to slightly cambered blades for all purposes except on shooting boards. Don't kid yourself that because the corners are rounded that you do not get terracing if the alignment is not /absolutely/ level (ie edge parallel to the sole). You get terraces with rounded inner corners. There's no guarantee that the forces acting on the blade will not slightly tilt the blade, though this does depend on your shaving thickness, uniformity of wood hardness, the way you plonk the plane down (eg on its side), tightness of the lever cap, and so on. With a cambered blade, any misalignment simply shows by the shaving drifting off-centre (providing that a corner does not project beyond the sole). Courteous disclaimer - They are not 'his' radiussed blades. The cambering has been traditional trade practice for yonks. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html ++++ End of thread 18955 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18956 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42793 (thread 18956) ---- From: James J. DuPrie jduprie@a... Date: 1998-05-06 21:29:00 Subject: best user braces I have a Yankee 1100 in pristine condition that would be very hard to beat for a use brace. No, it certainly is not available Ron ---------- > From: James J. DuPrie jduprie@a... > To: oldtools@l... > Subject: best user braces > Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 12:37 PM > > OK, so I'm finally looking into getting a couple of decent braces (to > replace the plastic stanley I've been getting by with), and I figured > I'd poll the porch before I plunk down the bucks... > I'm looking for good user-type tools, so I'm not looking for > investor-priced stuff (read: I'm a cheap basud). I trolled through the > FMM, and it looks like there's a ton of different types of braces. what > should one look for? I already know that 3 jaw chucks won't work with > square shank bits, but other than that, what ar ethe good (functionaly > best) braces, and why? > thanks > --JD > -- > ********************************************************* > ** James J. Momenee-DuPrie Operations Manager ** > ** Phone (978) 684-3722 ADSmart Corp. ** > ** Fax (978) 684-3618 100 Brickstone Square ** > ** jduprie@a... Andover, MA 01810 ** > ********************************************************* > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 18956 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18957 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42795 (thread 18957) ---- From: Tim T Clarke Date: 1998-05-06 21:43:00 Subject: newbie Hi everyone, It's my first week on the oldtools server and just thought I'd better get a note out to you all. I have been collecting tools for only a year now and have purchased items from some of the other list members already. Thanks to all for some great stuff. Bedrocks have caught my eye since a hand plane course over at Ernie Conover's. So I will be working on that for awhile. I also have a few guitars which I enjoy playing and someday hope to build one down in the basement workshop. For employment I have been an Camera Assistant on tv commercials here in the Cleveland area for about sixteen years. The workshop is looking better every year. Tim Clarke tclarke5@j... ++++ End of thread 18957 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18958 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42796 (thread 18958) ---- From: Randall Roeder Date: 1998-05-07 00:04:00 Subject: A Millers Falls Webpage -- new Hi all, I've set up a new Millers Falls Webpage. Topics include a company history, a bench plane page and a page on boring tools. A new version of the type study is included. There are photos or illustrations of the Buck Rogers type 1 and 2 planes, the Buck Rogers drill, hacksaw and keyhole saw, some permaloid tools and some of the Orange Period tools. A copy of the announcement sheet to hardware dealers for the Buck Rogers planes is included. Point your browser to: http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/mf.htm (Sorry, but I don't know how to hypertext the link.) The old MF study is superseded, but I haven't been able to reach Jay to have it pulled. I hope you enjoy the site, Randy Roeder ---- Start of Message 42842 (thread 18958) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-07 17:15:00 Subject: Re: A Millers Falls Webpage -- new Randy Roeder wrote: > Point your browser to: http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/mf.htm > (Sorry, but I don't know how to hypertext the link.) > I hope you enjoy the site, Randy, Absolutely fantastic job! BTW, your link came across fine and clickable with Netscape mail. Thanks, Chris ---- Start of Message 42844 (thread 18958) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-07 17:57:00 Subject: RE: A Millers Falls Webpage -- new I must concur. Randy has done a great job here - and it even is OLDTOOLS content! Steve -----Original Message----- From: Chris Dunn [mailto:a065117@U...] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 10:15 AM To: roeder.randall@m... Cc: oldtools@l... Subject: Re: A Millers Falls Webpage -- new Randy Roeder wrote: > Point your browser to: http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/mf.htm > (Sorry, but I don't know how to hypertext the link.) > I hope you enjoy the site, Randy, Absolutely fantastic job! BTW, your link came across fine and clickable with Netscape mail. Thanks, Chris ---- Start of Message 42848 (thread 18958) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-07 18:34:00 Subject: Re: A Millers Falls Webpage -- new Randall Roeder Wrote: >I hope you enjoy the site, >Randy Roeder Great stuff! Now, what is a M-F 77a? I just bought one. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 42912 (thread 18958) ---- From: Alan Sadler Date: 1998-05-08 05:43:00 Subject: Re: A Millers Falls Webpage -- new A stupendous job. ++++ End of thread 18958 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18959 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42801 (thread 18959) ---- From: tom thornton Date: 1998-05-07 00:55:00 Subject: tool hunting locations I will be in the Elmira Corning area, ( Horseheads at the Watson Homestead) next week. Any rusty shops around there ??? -- Tom Thornton, Morristown, New Jersey, USA ++++ End of thread 18959 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18960 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42802 (thread 18960) ---- From: Walter Barry Date: 1998-05-07 05:33:00 Subject: Perfect Handle (was: Screwdriver Question) Fellow galoot Steve Butti has the following up for sale on Ebay, if you'd like to see a picture of what a "perfect" handled tool looks like..... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=12835691 This is a wrench stamped "Perfect Handle" made by Trimont Mfg. Co. Don't remember offhand if they held the original patent for this design, but I'm sure I read it in some book somewhere. There have been many variations, like the screwdrivers, and many wrenches. Do the common wood handled Coes wrenches qualify as "perfect" or just an evolution of the design? These were made over time in different designs, one with the two wood halves riveted, another with a single round piece of wood, and another with a solid metal handle. I've got a 6 1/2" stamped Winchester in excellent shape, which has a nicer handle than most Coes I've seen, with the two halves mating nicely to the metal for a smooth comfortable feel. Walter ---- Start of Message 42826 (thread 18960) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-07 13:55:00 Subject: Re: Perfect Handle (was: Screwdriver Question) NOw I see what you mean! - I was more in line with the 1/2 moon thing, as I have - er had one of those - screwdriver with water wings, and also has a logo that spirals around the screwdriver shaft. Thanks for the pic! Aaron taak - but not always around when you need him :) Walter Barry wrote: > -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ---- Start of Message 42893 (thread 18960) ---- From: Walter Barry Date: 1998-05-08 06:20:00 Subject: RE: Perfect Handle (was: Screwdriver Question) Now that I opened up a book, I see that it was H.D.Smith & Co that made the "perfect" handle stuff, and the Coes wrenches had what was called "knife" handles. Was there ever an actual patent for the "perfect" handle design? Walter ++++ End of thread 18960 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18961 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42803 (thread 18961) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-07 00:46:00 Subject: spalting at home for fun and profit! Esteemed galoots, Several threads here in the past have mentioned home-grown spalting. I wish to share what I've learned about the subject, and encourage others who have tried this to contribute also. Perhaps JG can compile a FAQ on spalting from the various messages? I know this has been covered before in other formats and publications, but as always, one or two new things show up when we bat it around in here. I humbly submit to you of supreme and enlightened porchitude the following, gleaned from thousands of hours of actual experimentation and in-depth discussions with termites, stag beetles, and carpenter ants, who, themselves, excel at the valuable skill of spalting wood: What is spalting? Spalting is coloration and patterning caused by decay fungi and bacteria. (note that same two nasties also cause most diseases, but more on this later) Spalting appears as lines, blotches and marbling of very colorful chemical deposits placed by the decay organisms. Blacks, blues, reds and to a lesser extent all the other colors seem to form swirling lines of design all thoughout the affected wood. These patterns often contrast dramatically with the surrounding wood, appearing at the front where the decay organisms encounter and first attack the wood. This attack causes them, in the process of digesting the healthy wood, to secrete the colorful substances, or at least the substances which later evolve into spalting. In nature, these diseases are spread by the activities of wood borers and pollinating insects. In a sense, Spalting IS a disease of wood, and of trees. From the viewpoint of the tree, spalting is probably similar to the "Dreaded Flesh Eating Bacteria" of tabloid fame. To us however, cruel profiteering exploiters of nature, spalting means more bang for our wood buck. Lest we get accused by tree-huggers under the same statute that deals with Infecting Your Brother-in-law With Hantavirus To Make Him Better Looking, let's keep this spalting business in the group. Can't be too careful these days! Yes, live trees also display brilliant spalting in rotted places. Spalted wood is prized for its unusual coloration and patterns, and just as highly reviled for its difficulty in milling and turning. Actually, it is difficult because it is rotten and diseased. The breakdown perpetrated by the spalting organisms also "digests" the wood, and leaves behind a sort of ash. (can you say punky wood?) The degree to which this has occurred depends on conditions, wood species, and time. The process is very similar to combustion, leaving behind almost the same products in time. If we learn to halt it at the proper time, we can both enjoy the spalting itself, and also insure that there is sufficient wood fiber left to hold together on our lathe. Since we have already established that most trees tend to grow outdoors, they are continually exposed to disease causing organisms. Chances are your wood is already innoculated with one or several "diseases" that will cause spalting if you create the correct conditions. A logging site is seldom as sterile as an operating room, and wood carries with it many insects, fungi, and bacteria that will decay it if permitted. One thing I rarely hear mentioned is the proper time to halt the spalting and use the wood. There IS a proper time. Naturally, the longer you let the decay progress, the more dramatic the colors and patterns will be, until the whole process is arrested by lack of further stuff to eat. At that point, what you have left is a pile of fluff, colorless and useless. I merely test it from week to week, and find the time at which it is both colorful and strong enough yet to work. Sometimes a piece must be sawn thru to see what's going on inside. Sometimes the odor gives it away. I find it really smells like Serious Organic Decay when the rot first begins, and at the point the decay begins to break down the wood seriously, the smell turns to more of a musty smell and declines. I feel this has to do with moisture content. There seems to be a chemical kick-over that suddenly drops the moisture level, and this is either caused by the advancing rot process itself, or it accompanies it for reasons unknown to me. Biology guys, jump in here please? My wood came from a very healty and sterile neighborhood, so how do I infect it? Or: How can I encourage spalting to appear in my wood? Prayer doesn't accomplish much in this incidence, but there MIGHT be a yet undiscovered patron saint of fungi..let us know if he/she appears to you! Failing prayer, one can always introduce (innoculate) one's woodpile or specimen to/with the appropriate diseases. The surest way to do this is use a culture from already spalted wood. At least you'll know the proper organisms are present. The second way would be to substitute with other bacteria/fungi, and see what happens. I've done a bit of this, like a few others here, and it works. First, not all wood will form nice colors and patterns when it decays. Some of it just turns to old rotted wood without further ado. We already discussed the woods which tend to decay outdoors readily, and sure enough, it is these same species which tend to spalt the best. The maples, poplars, fruitwoods, hickories, et al each display their own spalting patterns. If you select the right wood species, and you are sure that your wood is not infected, then let's infect it! Time is on your side in this endeavor, so sit back after you experiment and let it happen. I have used rotted wood emulsions to encourage spalting, making a sort of rotted wood milkshake, if you will. Paint this liberally onto the end grain of your boards/blanks, and let it work. Get a few hunks of really stinky rotted wood from that fallen maple tree your SWMBO ordered you to take down twenty six Saturdays ago. Crunch it up into shreds in your Yard Boss (TM) mulching machine, or make shavings with it any way you can. Even chainsaw chips will do. Next, mix this with warm water, the dirtier the better. Get some great stump water and you'll finally be able to say that you used stump water for something! To get the most of your germs, put your wood in a shady place, and cover your wood with wet carpetting or old roofing materials. Wet it down often, say once a week in normal weather, perhaps once a day in very dry weather. Keep it smelling good. Grass clippings added to the covering material seem to help. Check often, and when it is spalted like you wish, dry it by bringing it into the open and letting the air reduce the moisture content slowly. DON'T put it into direct sun tho. I substitute cultured disease organisms for nautral on occasion. I have used septic tank bacteria culture with good results, (they guarantee it to rot your wood or they send a little guy over in a boat to live in your toilet!) and the culture sold to kick over large compost operations works well also. Ask at any commercial compost facility. Weathered seweage also works, but be sure to give the resultant turnings or furniture to a deserving in-law or friend. OK, my wood spalted, now what? Once your wood has all those brilliant little advancing fronts of delightful rot and decay, it's easy to look at it and imagine how it would look when "opened" in various ways. Try to be imaginative and display the colors to best advantage. Most spalted wood items will need a clear finish, or just a waxing. Staining will react to the spalting stains and most likely hide the results. Watch for soft pockets that will appear, and don't trust spalted wood in situations that call for structural strength. (YES that includes faceplate work and spindles.) Mount in a lathe only if sure there is enough solid wood to hold the attachments. Use respiratory protection with spalted wood at all times you are producing dust or chips. There is a whole medical dictionary full of respiratory diseases caused by the very same beasties that spalted your wood! If you need convincing, just think about spalted bones. Nuff said! l hope someone else picks this up and adds to the body of spalting knowledge that is destined to become "Decay and Rot, or Why the Porch Collapsed, the Oldtools Legacy!" Nick ---- Start of Message 42823 (thread 18961) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-07 13:42:00 Subject: Re: spalting at home for fun and profit! Cougarjack wrote: > > Esteemed galoots, > > Several threads here in the past have mentioned home-grown spalting. I wish you caould start your own homepage - NIcks Rot & Gore :) ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ---- Start of Message 42840 (thread 18961) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-07 16:58:00 Subject: RE: spalting at home for fun and profit! Nick essentially covered everything about producing spalted wood (although out here in the Pacific Northwest, with our abundant rainfall and western maples, spalting pretty much happens all by itself. No need for petri dishes and culture generation.) I worked a lot of spalted wood in turnings, and have some tips for how to get the most out of it. First off, if it is past the optimum point where the wood fibers still have some cohesive strength, it is much harder to get a good finish. So, if you are watching the spalting carefully, I'd say it is better to stop the process a bit too soon rather than a bit too late. But if you're a procrastinator like me, and get there too late, all is not lost. There are a couple techniques that can save some borderline pieces. The first is to rough turn your bowl (you ARE making a bowl, right? What else is there?) wet, then coat it with several coats of a penetrating finish, like tung oil, Watco, ProFin, or whatever they sell in your neck of the woods. Then let dry a couple months and come back to finish things up. The finish strengthens the wood at the surface enough for a clean finish cut. The second technique, if you don't want to wait the couple of months, is to rough turn your bowl, soak the surface in Superglue (the watery stuff), and continue (AFTER the glue dries thoroughly, of course). This also tends to harden the surface and gives you one clean cutting pass before you cut through the glue and have to re-flood the surface. ---- Start of Message 43065 (thread 18961) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 20:18:00 Subject: RE: spalting at home for fun and profit! Cougarjack wrote: > My wood came from a very healthy and sterile neighborhood, so how do I infect > it? > Or: How can I encourage spalting to appear in my wood? One of the ideas suggested a long time ago, I think by Steve LeMantia?, was to start a mushroom culture. You can make it do double duty by starting a Shitake mushroom culture and cooking the mushrooms after they've done their job on the wood. Shitake culture is available from mail order sources. If you are less culinary in nature, just grab some mushrooms or other fungi from the woods, blend with buttermilk, splash on the wood, throw it in a warm, dark place, and wait a little. Just realize that many (most?) fungi are poisonous, so don't blend in the kitchen blender, and don't tell the kids these are mushrooms like on the pizza you had for dinner. Great thread! Any other takers? - Bill ---- Start of Message 43072 (thread 18961) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-11 21:22:00 Subject: Re: spalting at home for fun and profit! Bill Clouser wrote: Cougarjack wrote: My wood came from a very healthy and sterile neighborhood, so how do I infect it? Or: How can I encourage spalting to appear in my wood? Great thread! Any other takers? - Bill Am of Kin solomon fame told me tha the just keeps it a little wet it takes care of getting moldy by itself, he had a few items that he had made from a nice creamy colored , very faintly grained wood, very pretty stuff. Aaron ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ---- Start of Message 44153 (thread 18961) ---- From: Jim Barker Date: 1998-06-01 04:34:00 Subject: Re: spalting at home for fun and profit! Just looking at some old posts and came across this one on spalting -- At 12:46 AM 5/7/98 EDT, Nick wrote: >Esteemed galoots, > >Several threads here in the past have mentioned home-grown spalting. I wish >to share what I've learned about the subject, and encourage others who have >tried this to contribute also. Perhaps JG can compile a FAQ on spalting from >the various messages? I know this has been covered before in other formats and >publications, but as always, one or two new things show up when we bat it >around in here. big snip Here in Arizona one of the common desert trees is mesquite. There is also a very active population of termites in the desert. Put those two together and you have what I believe is built in spalting. I have cut dead limbs from mesquite trees that have termites running through them. Although one must be careful of getting other wood supplies or tools infected with the termites -- I have cut some planks from the wood and there is built in spalting . Some furniture makers in the area fill the termite trails with epoxy and sawdust, but I have a picture frame that I made from one of the logs that is riddled with trails and I think it looks great. Jim Barker ++++ End of thread 18961 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18962 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42804 (thread 18962) ---- From: Ian McKinley Date: 1998-05-07 00:18:00 Subject: Re: stone ID long At 02:09 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Since the FMM traffic seems to have subsided, it's time to ask about a >sharpening stone I found this weekend. > The first side looked beautiful! It has a beige, tan, >and brown marbled appearance. There was also a sort of "figure" to >the stone that looked like miniature "birds eyes" as in birds eye >maple. I lapped the other side, and it was solid purple, but still >had the same "figure." > >I dumped some oil based lubricant on it and tried it out. SCREECH! >It made a huge scratch in the stone. This is very soft. > >Alan > >---------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Alan I have three soft Arkansas stones that I bought new, in other words they should be what the seller said they were. One is about 25 years old and the other two are about 10 years old. None of them will scratch with a blade. One of them is much faster cutting then the other two. Your discription of the stones coloring would seem to be right for soft Arkansas but I question the softness. My understanding from older texts is that Washita stones are somewhat different from Arkansas stones and were at one time avalible in several grades. I too am looking for more information on the subject of sharpening stones. The following is from "Audels Carpenters and Builders Guide" copyrighted, 1923. Natural Oil Stones.-There are two general classes of natural stones grouped according to locality where found, as 1, Washita, and 2, Arkansas. Washita Oil Stone.- Washita stone is found in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas, and is composed of nearly pure silica, very similar to the Arkansas, but much more porous. It is known throughout the would as the best natural stone for sharpening carpenter's and general wood workers's tools. Its sharpening qualities are due to small, sharp pointed grains or crystals, hexagonal in shape and much harder than steel. It is found in various grades. from perfectly crystallized and porous grit to viteous flint and hard sandstone. The sharpness of grit depends entirely upon its crystallization. The best oil stones are made from very porous crystals. Lily White Washita is the best selection or grading of natural Washita, perfectly white in color, uniform in texture and nicely finished. Rosy Red Washita has an even porous grit somewhat coarser than the Lily White grading and is therefore faster cutting. No. 1 Washita is a good oil stone for general use, where a medium-priced stone is wanted. It is far wuperior to the many cheap so-called "oil stones" on the markit that are only sandstones with a polished face, but it is not as uniform as the Lily White. Arkansas Oil Stone.- Genuine Arkansas stone is composed of pure silica crystals, microscopic in size, and silica is among the hardest of known minerals. So hard and perfectly crystallized is the Arkansas stone that it is nearly sixteen times harder to cut than marble, as the hardest of steel tools with the finest points or blades may be sharpened on the Arkansas stone without grooving. Arkansas stone is prepared for commercial purposes in two grades, hard and soft. Hard Arkansas is much harder than steel and will therefore cut away and sharpen steel tools. The extreme fineness of textrure makes it a slow cutter, but a perfect sharpener. Soft Arkansas is not quite so fine grained and hard as the Hard Arkansas, but it cuts faster and is better for carvers, file makers, pattern makers and of all workers in hard wood. I will try to look up some more referance material later. Hope this was of value. Ian ---- Start of Message 42824 (thread 18962) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-07 13:46:00 Subject: Re: stone ID long Just having aquired three beautiful Arkansas stones courtesy of Kieth Degrau, I read this string closely and have some contrasting observations to share. The stones would have to fall in one of the three groups of rock forming minerals, silica, corundum or quartz. First, Arkansas stones test harder than silica. I rubbed a piece of glass with a stone.. it scratched the glass. (glass is pure silica). Quartz has a hardness of 7, tool steel (files) 5, silica is also about 5 with some naturally occuring silicates going to 6 1/2 or 7. Another candidate is corundum (aluminum oxide), aka: ruby, sapphire etc, and when mixed with magentite as in emery, wet-dry sandpaper. Corundum is a 9 hardness. This is why it's used in many man made stones and abrasives. Corundum is second only to the diamond in hardness, but is described as brittle. I don't think Arkansas stone are corundum because they seem tougher than corundum in use. I believe that Arkansas stones are cryptocrystalline quartz. Quartz exhibits the color range of Arkansas stones. According to my handy mineral guide, it comes in grey, brown, red, green, yellow and white. Forms include chalcedony, sard, carnelian, onyx, agate, heliotrope, flint, chert and petrified wood (ah ha! now we know why those galoots use petrified wood as sharpening stones). Cryptocrystalline quartz is described as tough. I've seen Arkansas stones called novaculite. Novaculite seems to be silica that has been metamorphasized into microcrystalline quartz. It also called a "bedded chert". All of which goes to the point that Arkansas stones are slower cutting but last a lifetime. I have one, slightly transparent, that I've used for 35 years, flattening exactly twice. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ++++ End of thread 18962 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18963 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42807 (thread 18963) ---- From: Patrick Colbeck Date: 1998-05-07 08:58:00 Subject: Bio Reply-To: OK I have been lurking for a while and recently posted a couple of questions so I guess its about time for the obligotary bio. Hi My name is Patrick Colbeck. I am 32 and live in Westow a small village near York in the north east of England with SHMBO and my 20 month old son Jake. I am a network engineer which for you non computer types is kind of like a computer plumber, I install and configure the boxes that link computers to each other and the internet or corporate networks, also the stuff that links the bits of the intenet or corporate networks together which is the same but bigger and faster. I have no experience really with woodworking excpet what I did in school (which I stopped at 13, woodworking not school you understand :)). All the tools I have have been for motorcycle repair or general DIY shop cheapies bought to get a specific house repair type job done. I have always enjoyed flea markets and antiques fairs but kind of wandered arround with no real aim in mind (SWMBO likes pottery so that why we go). Recently I was laying a wood laminate floor in our kitchen. I took a look at the pile of expensive flooring and then at my rusty DIY shop special tenon saw, and thought no way ! Enter a new Sandvik tenon saw and a Wolfcraft workbench, not a brilliant saw I now know but a combined with the workmate to hold the wood reasonably firmly what a revalation. I actually managed some nice clean straight cuts and whats more I enjoyed it. What had started out as an onerous task became enjoyable and SWMBO was impressed with the floor. It got me thinking that maybe I might like to try some more woodworking so I bought a couple of magazines and took a look at rec.woodworking. Initial normite tendancies were soon squashed as 1. I couldn't afford all those machines. 2. I would have no where to put them. 3. The realistaion that this was a hobby not a way to produce stuff as quickly as possible. The pleasure would be in the doing not the finishing. 4. Looking for old tools at flea markets would give me something to focus on while SWMBO was deep in "Leeds Creamware" mode. So I have sorted out the tools that might be usefull in my garage (a couple of steel rulers etc). I have scored my first flea market tool, a #4 for £8, and ordered a #5 and a block plane form a dealer. The veritas sharpening system arrived last night and I am getting a set of Marples chisles (to get buy untill I find some old ones) at the weekend. First project is to be a toolbox of some kind to put this stuff in, I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks to all who replied to my dumb newbie questions for throwing some more grease on the slippery slope. Pat ++++ End of thread 18963 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18964 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42808 (thread 18964) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-07 11:22:00 Subject: Roger Smiths' page?? (was Re: Ken Roberts' Web Page) Could you have been thinking about Roger Smith's page at http://www.tooltimer.com/roger/ ?? Steve ++++ End of thread 18964 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18965 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42810 (thread 18965) ---- From: Lootens, Rob Date: 1998-05-07 11:59:00 Subject: re: My Favorite Brace Gentle Galoots, I have a lot of old braces these days, many are favorites because of their features or appearances but functionally I can easily turn to my John Fray "Spofford" brace. This spartan tool with its big wing nut can accept so many different shapes of tang that I never give it a second thought and just reach for it. My 10 inch Spofford has a dedicated Stearns hollow augur installed in it. My 8 inch is used for my smaller Jennings bits and my big Spofford spins the larger augurs. Spoffords are all metal and can really get uncomfortable during cold weather use but this is no issue to me since I work in a shop year round. They are relatively easy to find and shouldn't break the bank. Highly recommended. Rob Lootens Utica, Michigan ++++ End of thread 18965 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18966 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42811 (thread 18966) ---- From: Paul Coppinger Date: 1998-05-07 14:19:00 Subject: Eggbeater Wins Again Eggbeater beats electric drill...sounds like a possible Olympic competition in the works. Go to http://everest.mountainzone.com/98/climb5-6.html Best regards. Paul Coppinger cop@t... ---- Start of Message 42851 (thread 18966) ---- From: Eric Breitenberger Date: 1998-05-07 10:32:00 Subject: Re: Eggbeater Wins Again Paul wrote: > Eggbeater beats electric drill...sounds like a possible Olympic > competition in the works. Go to > http://everest.mountainzone.com/98/climb5-6.html Sounds good, but, as the little picture shows, the "hand drill" they're using isn't an eggbeater. It's sorta like a star drill (Rawl is the best-known supplier). You just beat on it with a hammer while you turn the drill slowly. Drilling hard rock this way is painful and slow. Everest is mainly sedimentary, so maybe these guys will at least find soft rock. #include Your hammer, of course, should be a Chouinard Yosemite hammer as we discussed last week! Cheers, Eric (Moosetown, not Cowtown) ---- Start of Message 42863 (thread 18966) ---- From: Ed Bell Date: 1998-05-07 21:32:00 Subject: Re: Eggbeater Wins Again Paul Coppinger wrote: > > It's sorta like a star drill (Rawl is the > best-known supplier). You just beat on it with a hammer while you turn > the drill slowly. " I've drilled holes with these. Talk about agonizingly slow, especially through hard fired brick. One place where I think the new technology has won hands down. Ed -- Ed Bell | Trying to dig his heels in while Cincinnati Bell Information Systems | sliding down that slippery slope. Still looking for that perfect saw set, though. Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ---- Start of Message 43120 (thread 18966) ---- From: John McCoy Date: 1998-05-12 21:09:00 Subject: Re: Eggbeater Wins Again On May 7, 10:32am, Eric Breitenberger wrote: > Subject: Re: Eggbeater Wins Again > Paul wrote: > > Eggbeater beats electric drill...sounds like a possible Olympic > > competition in the works. Go to > > http://everest.mountainzone.com/98/climb5-6.html > > Sounds good, but, as the little picture shows, the "hand drill" they're > using isn't an eggbeater. It's sorta like a star drill (Rawl is the > best-known supplier). You just beat on it with a hammer while you turn > the drill slowly. Drilling hard rock this way is painful and slow. Everest > is mainly sedimentary, so maybe these guys will at least find soft rock. Well I'm way behind on email as usual, but thought I'd comment on this... Hand-drilling in this fashion was the normal means of putting a hole in rock until the invention of pneumatic drills around a hundred years ago. Normally the drill steel would be rather longer than that the everest group was using, with a 4 winged head (like a star drill, as Eric mentions) about 3/4 inch across. Drilling using a hand sledge and drill steel was refered to as "single-jacking", while two-man team drilling with a longer steel and a sledge hammer was refered to as "double-jacking". In hard rock, the drill steels would dull in less than an hours drilling, and a single man would use several in a shift - even a small mine would keep a smith or two busy sharpening and re-tempering the steels. Even a strong man might only drill a few inches in a shift, in really hard rock... Before the turn of the century hand drilling contests were a popular sport in mining districts, for 4th of July & similar festive occasions. In the '30s, when labor was cheap (i.e. free for room & board) and fuel cost money, some small mines actually switched back to hand drilling. John Henry, he of the well known ballad, was drilling with a steel & hand sledge... John ++++ End of thread 18966 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18967 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42812 (thread 18967) ---- From: Tony Blanks Date: 1998-05-07 12:28:00 Subject: Ken Roberts' doesn't have a Web Page Hi friends, Thnks to all those who have told me that Ken doesn't have a web page, and apologies to those who asked that I pass on the URL when I got it. I thought that the problem was in my filing system, but clearly I have a more fundamental memory problem. Age brings problems other than wisdom! Regards, Tony ++++ End of thread 18967 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18968 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42813 (thread 18968) ---- From: Darrell LaRue Date: 1998-05-07 12:35:00 Subject: SJBT Infill Update Galoots, Just a quick update on my smoother... I got the casting most of the way done, all except for drilling the holes through the sides. The mouth is *almost* done, but I'm not gonna finish it until I get the iron completed. I have only lapped the sides and sole to 120 grit, in the hope that most of the little blemishes & scratches from the rest of the process will vanish when I complete the lapping. The iron is ready for hardening & tempering. Cutting that stuff with a hacksaw is a real chore. And I got enough O1 left to make four more blades. I've been working on the walnut infill the last few evenings. So far so good, and I've only pinched my finger between the infill & casting once (which brought Kathy downstairs to ask if I needed a ride to emerg... no blood, only curses). I should be able to get it just about done this weekend except for the heat treating part, which may require some extra time & toys, but will be a fun adventure. -- Darrell LaRue Scotia Capital Markets Toronto Ontario, Canada Opinions expressed herein are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. "That ain't no slippery slope, that's an inclined plane!" ++++ End of thread 18968 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18969 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42815 (thread 18969) ---- From: Darrell LaRue Date: 1998-05-07 12:42:00 Subject: No Point to This? Galoots, Got a hardware question... I took the sliding fence off the bottom of my moving fillister last night, and I noticed that the screws that hold it to the plane have no points. The thread looks like a typical wood screw style, but the end of the screw comes to a fairly rough blunt end. I heard Roy explaining (on an episode of his show) that wood screws after a certain date have points; before that they didn't. Were the 'screws' used on my fillister pointless 'cause they're old, or because they are really 'bolts', not screws? I don't think this plane is old enough to have pointless screws. So what do the typical fence mounting fasteners look like? Darrell Enquiring minds, &c -- Darrell LaRue Scotia Capital Markets Toronto Ontario, Canada Opinions expressed herein are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. "That ain't no slippery slope, that's an inclined plane!" ---- Start of Message 42819 (thread 18969) ---- From: Patrick Colbeck Date: 1998-05-07 13:13:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? If the "screw" is parallel all teh way along like a bolt rather that tapered like a screw then really it should be called a "machine screw". A bolt really should have a nut to go with it. A machine screw goes into a threaded hole in the material it is fastening something to or if that material is soft it can be self tapping. At least thats the definition I have always understood. Pat ---- Start of Message 42832 (thread 18969) ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 1998-05-07 15:34:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? Darrell asks about pointless screws: > I took the sliding fence off the bottom of my moving fillister > last night, and I noticed that the screws that hold it to the > plane have no points. The thread looks like a typical wood > screw style, but the end of the screw comes to a fairly rough > blunt end. I think that you may have screws which are replacement, so had to be filed because they would be too long to fit in the original hole. If they are original,another reason for filing the points would be if someone trued the sole and this way reduced the depth of the screw holes. I recently took apart a wooden plow plane for cleaning and the screws that were holding the skate were also pointless. This was, however done deliberatly, because the screws were replacement and originally they would have been too long and would pierce through the wood on the other side of the body. Eddie ---------------------------------------- Adria Tools - High Quality Dovetail Saws http://www.woodworking.com/adria/ ---- Start of Message 42861 (thread 18969) ---- From: DNRSchwartz Date: 1998-05-07 17:04:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? At 08:47 AM 5/7/98 -0400, Darrell LaRue wrote: >Galoots, > >Got a hardware question... > >I took the sliding fence off the bottom of my moving fillister >last night, and I noticed that the screws that hold it to the >plane have no points. end of the screw comes to a fairly rough >blunt end. > >I heard Roy explaining (on an episode of his show) that wood >screws after a certain date have points; before that they didn't. >Were the 'screws' used on my fillister pointless 'cause they're >old, or because they are really 'bolts', not screws? > As a trained Historian (at least my diploma SAYS History major), I'd like to point out to the curious that pointed wood screws weren't manufactured until the mid-1840s. Before that the screws were blunt or flat. I guess some masachist could have hand made tapered, pointed screws... but why? Does the crew taper to a blunt tip? Is there any evidence from tool marks that the screw may have been hand made? Sounds interesting Chris N. Schwartz, Feral Brewer... Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he wastes a lifetime. http://mav.net/darc/prbc/ ---- Start of Message 42888 (thread 18969) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-08 01:39:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? Darrell LaRue writes: >I took the sliding fence off the bottom of my moving fillister >last night, and I noticed that the screws that hold it to the >plane have no points. >I don't think this plane is old enough to have pointless screws. >So what do the typical fence mounting fasteners look like? If the head of the screw is like a fillister head (flat head with straight sides) screw and pretty closely fits the brass inlayed chase in the fence it's probably original. "Old" for Stanley isn't quite the same as "old" for woodies. A type one #* Stanley will be pretty recent in wooden plane terms. Who made that plane, where and when? Larry Williams who has never found what the brass screw chases should be properly called ---- Start of Message 42901 (thread 18969) ---- From: Walt Henderson Date: 1998-05-08 10:29:00 Subject: RE: No Point to This? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-oldtools@l... > [mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of Larry > Williams > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 10:17 PM > To: Darrell_LaRue@S...; oldtools@l... > Subject: Re: No Point to This? > > Darrell LaRue writes: > > >I took the sliding fence off the bottom of my moving fillister > >last night, and I noticed that the screws that hold it to the > >plane have no points. > > > > >I don't think this plane is old enough to have pointless screws. > >So what do the typical fence mounting fasteners look like? > > If the head of the screw is like a fillister head (flat head with straight > sides) screw and pretty closely fits the brass inlayed chase > in the fence it's probably original. "Old" for Stanley isn't quite the > same as "old" for woodies. A type one #* Stanley will be pretty recent > in wooden plane terms. > > Who made that plane, where and when? > > Larry Williams > who has never found what the brass screw chases should be properly > called > Gentlemen, I haven't read the message that started this thread, but I'm guessing that someone found screws with blunt tips and is using that as a basis for age. Its interesting to note that some of the earliest screws manufactured (England 1700) had pointed tips. A book by Michael Bennett, Discovering & Restoring Antique Furniture, has a nice pictorial history of the development of the wood screw in England. I would guess that it pretty much was the same in America. Please correct me if I'm wrong. By the way, does anyone know when bubble type levels came into use? How about the origin of the lance type tooth pattern on saws? Might as well kill myself twice in a day! Your Humble Servant, Walt H. ----------------------------------------- Henderson & Vinci Historical Cabinetmakers & Joyners 205 Birch Street, N.E. Leesburg, Virginia 20176-4521, USA (703) 777-3923 Fax (703) 777-9507 ---- Start of Message 42906 (thread 18969) ---- From: Darrell LaRue Date: 1998-05-08 12:33:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? I wrote: Larry Williams replied: > If the head of the screw is like a fillister head (flat head with straight > sides) screw and pretty closely fits the brass inlayed chase > in the fence it's probably original. Yup, that describes it exactly. I wonder if they tapped the threads for these screws, or just made a pilot hole and let the screw cut it's own threads? > Who made that plane, where and when? Maker's mark is illegible. It might start with an "F". I don't know anymore about the history of this plane. It was cheap and it works pretty good as is. Darrell -- Darrell LaRue Scotia Capital Markets Toronto Ontario, Canada Opinions expressed herein are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ---- Start of Message 42949 (thread 18969) ---- From: Todd Kissam Date: 1998-05-08 21:43:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? At 08:47 AM 5/7/98 -0400, Darrell wrote: >I took the sliding fence off the bottom of my moving fillister >last night, and I noticed that the screws that hold it to the >plane have no points. The thread looks like a typical wood >screw style, but the end of the screw comes to a fairly rough >blunt end. I have probably taken apart 5 or 6 fillesters and they all had the non-tipped screws. (Or bolts). Larry's comment on the shape of the head was on the money. Sash planes usually also do not use pointed screws (for the adjustable models). Since these screws/bolts are not part of the normal hardware offered, I have wondered on a couple of "points". 1. Did they used to be commonly available -- or --- 2. Did the plane maker - grind off the tip In either case the planemaker picked this type of hardware, and the question is why? My guess is that it is harder to overtighten a screw without a point. I have seen numerous sash plane with the point of the screw coming through the plane body. Perhaps a non-pointed screw would split less also. Todd ---- Start of Message 42956 (thread 18969) ---- From: Rodney Myrvaagnes Date: 1998-05-08 12:23:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? When I want a screw like that, I just chop the end off with a pair of nippers. Quicker than grinding. On Fri, 08 May 1998 15:38:37 -0400, Todd Kissam wrote: >Since these screws/bolts are not part of the normal hardware >offered, I have wondered on a couple of "points". > >1. Did they used to be commonly available -- or --- >2. Did the plane maker - grind off the tip > Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a rodneym@i... 20 years without a car, TV, or website ---- Start of Message 42961 (thread 18969) ---- From: David R. Hunkins Date: 1998-05-08 21:34:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? >Darrell LaRue asks about pointless screws in his moving fillester: Eddie Sirotich offers that they might be replacements, and cites a case where the screws holding the skate of a plow plane needed to be shortened. In the case of a moving fillester, the screws holding the fence extend upward and into a 3" tall body. Only a monster screw would have threatened to poke through the other side. Then Chris Schwartz adds: "....pointed wood screws weren't manufactured until the mid-1840s." Walt Henderson counters: "... some of the earliest screws manufactured (England 1700) had pointed tips" and cites a reference to a Michael Bennett book. Larry Williams offers: "If the head of the screw is like a fillister head (flat head with straight sides) screw and pretty closely fits the brass inlayed chase in the fence it's probably original." That's the ticket exactly. To which Darrell responds saying that this is the case. ******************************************** So ... Darrell's plane probably has its original screws. My question is, do we know anything significant about the history of his plane by simply noting that these screws don't come to a point? Walt and Chris are offering conflicting information and I'm curious where to go from here. I'll offer some more data by examining the screws that hold the fences of various moving fillesters: "N.SPAULDING/ McLEAN" c.1824-50: steel screw, flat head with flat sides, 1-7/8" shaft (straight, varying pitch, signs of handwork) with blunt end. "T.J.M'MASTER & Co/ AUBURN/ N.Y" c.1825-39: steel screw, flat head with flat sides, 1-1/4" shaft (slightly tapered) with blunt end. "C.TOLLNER/ 221 BOWERY/ N.Y" c.1851-61: steel screw, flat head with flat sides, 1-7/8" shaft (straight, tapers at end) with sharp point. "WARD&FLETCHER/ 549 8TH AVE/ NEW YORK" c.1852-53: brass wood screw, flat head & tapered sides, 1-1/2" tapered shaft with sharp end. Fits in special 3/16" thick brass washer w/ countersunk top, giving the appearance of a flat-topped, flat-sided screw. "H.S.EDWARDS & BRo/ SCHENECTADY,N.Y" on a plane that was probably made by Auburn Tool Co. re: "No.121" on the heel c.1864-93: steel screw, domed head with flat sides, 1" shaft (straight, but tapers at end) with sharp point. "REED/ UTICA" c.1820-94: steel screw, flat head with flat sides, 1-3/4" shaft with straight sides & modified blunt end (severe taper over last 1/4" but no sharp point). "J.WEBB/ PITTSFIELD" c.1837-49: steel screw, flat head with flat sides, 1" shaft only _slightly_ tapered along its length, blunt end. Interpretation? Conclusions? Hope you can all help, here's what I see. The three planes with sharp-ended screws were definitely made after Chris Schwartz's 1840 date. The other planes that had blunted screws were made by manufacturers who had known working dates prior to 1840. No contradictions. Walt's citing of English screw history may not be relevant here if American planemakers weren't using English hardware? These are all 1/4" to 5/16" screws with course threads. My guess is that holes were drilled and maybe tapped. Do we then properly call these bolts and not screws? Sorry to keep kicking this thread, but I swear I saw it twitching. David ---- Start of Message 42976 (thread 18969) ---- From: Walt Henderson Date: 1998-05-09 00:09:00 Subject: RE: No Point to This? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-oldtools@l... > [mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of David R. > Hunkins > Sent: Friday, May 08, 1998 5:34 PM > To: oldtools@l... > Subject: Re: No Point to This? > > > Interpretation? Conclusions? Hope you can all help, here's what I see. The > three planes with sharp-ended screws were definitely made after Chris > Schwartz's 1840 date. The other planes that had blunted screws > were made by > manufacturers who had known working dates prior to 1840. No > contradictions. > Walt's citing of English screw history may not be relevant here > if American > planemakers weren't using English hardware? > > These are all 1/4" to 5/16" screws with course threads. My guess is that > holes were drilled and maybe tapped. Do we then properly call these bolts > and not screws? > > Sorry to keep kicking this thread, but I swear I saw it twitching. > > David David, It would seem the answer is easy . . . most all things from our more distant past are a WAG. The minute you think you've got it nailed . . . somebody puts your contentions into doubt. I think we're all missing a point . . . we should take this information . . . form an institute dedicated to the study of plane hardware . . . and get a government grant! Regards, Walt H. ----------------------------------------- Henderson & Vinci Historical Cabinetmakers & Joyners 205 Birch Street, N.E. Leesburg, Virginia 20176-4521, USA (703) 777-3923 Fax (703) 777-9507 ---- Start of Message 42978 (thread 18969) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-09 00:22:00 Subject: Re: No Point to This? David R. Hunkins wrote: >>Darrell LaRue asks about pointless screws in his moving fillester: > >I'll offer some more data by examining the screws that hold the fences of >various moving fillesters:.............snip >Sorry to keep kicking this thread, but I swear I saw it twitching. Kick it again someone! I need a little time to get to the shop and measure some. I like where David has this going! But I think I did see a bubble level mounted on a surveying instrument in that first edition Encyclopdia Britanica I'd told Walt about in private. Larry Williams who's daughter just informed him he'd be delayed with his measurements by a mother's day shopping trip ---- Start of Message 42984 (thread 18969) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-09 03:03:00 Subject: RE: No Point to This? Walt Henderson wrote: > > I think we're all missing a point . . . we should take this information . . >. form an institute dedicated to the study of plane hardware . . . and get a >government grant! Ok, so here's some more info. 18th Century British (guessing here but I'd date it 1760 plus or minus 15 years) no taper 1/4" x 1 3/8" steel or iron screw approx 8 threads/ inch and a blunt end. This plane also has an early brass unshod depth stop that adjusts by a locking screw. Very uniform but rusted and pitted threads and may have been cut with a die stock of some type. Head: flat top 5/8" dia x 5/16" thick (Walt knows this plane pretty well) JOHN MOSELEY, NEW ST. COVENENT GARDEN, LONDON ca. 1838-61 no taper 5/16" x 1 3/4" blunt end steel screw approx 9 threads/inch screw cut with 3 passes on a screw cutting lathe (ending point of each pass visible at the shank). Flat top head 9/16" dia x 3/8" thick with 1/16" chamfer at the top. BENTON EVANS & CO, ROCHESTER ca. 1834-38 no taper 19/32" x 1 7/16" steel screw with uniform threads at about 8 threads/inch and a blunt end. Threads end in a uniform slope to the shank and the threads are slightly bigger than the shank so I doubt that they're hand filed. Flat top head 19/32 dia x 3/8" thick. Walt showed me the book by Michael Bennett and it's one of the sources of information I've been meaning to buy. There's so much to learn about the technologies used at different times. I wish there was a book on just this subject. I think the Gabriel inventories may shed some light on the late 1700's and will look at it for a while after I get some book work done for the business. Probably be tomorrow night before I can spend much time on it. Larry Williams ++++ End of thread 18969 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18970 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42816 (thread 18970) ---- From: Don Berry berry@e... Date: 1998-05-07 12:47:00 Subject: Re: Screwdriver Question

Don Berry writes in reply to my query: The Perfect Handle design is a piece of flat piece of steel about 1/4" thick that starts at the shaft, widens and tapers again to define a cross-section of the handle, with two pieces of wood above and below the steel held with 2 or 3 rivets through the entire sandwich. The assembled sandwich is oval in cross-section perpendicular to the shaft. Hmmmm, I guess my description is no better than your half-moons. Thanks for the responses from everyone. I think it may have been a Perfect Handle as there is a metal core sandwiched by two pieces of wood, but there is still one distinction. That is these "half moons" that I referred to in my original description. These half moons are actually extensions of the metal core of a "Perfect Handle". They project out of the handle. Kinda like if you took a silver dollar and cut it in half. Then, you welded/brazed these halves onto the metal core, edge-wise, so that you had two wings sticking out from the sides of the handle. Let me try some ascii art. ------- / wing /------/---------------- -----------------------------------/ | driver handle | ----------------------------------- / ---------------/-------/ wing / ------- Where is The Ascii Art King when you need him? Well, I hope that gives some idea of what I'm talking about. I'm definitely stopping next week and buying the driver if it's still there. Thanks for any additional info you can provide. Paul Gillespie Philada, PAReceived: from nmho05u.rohmhaas.com ([136.141.252.23]) by ima2.rohmhaas.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 3.01 Enterprise) id 00059BA6; Wed, 6 May 98 16:48:42 -0400 Received: by nmho05u.rohmhaas.com; id QAA20920; Wed, 6 May 1998 16:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nisc2.upenn.edu(130.91.72.42) by nmho05u.rohmhaas.com via smap (3.2) id xma020913; Wed, 6 May 98 16:53:08 -0400 Received: from ernst.chem.upenn.edu (ERNST.CHEM.UPENN.EDU [130.91.64.44]) by nisc2.upenn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA30624; Wed, 6 May 1998 16:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.91.64.54] by ernst.chem.upenn.edu id QAA08959; Wed, 6 May 1998 16:46:00 -0400 Posted-Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:46:00 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: 0005867A.CE21285@R... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:54:05 -0400 To: Oldtool list oldtools@l..., Paul_F_Gillespie@R... From: Don Berry berry@e... Subject: Re: Screwdriver Question

++++ End of thread 18970 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18971 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42818 (thread 18971) ---- From: Nat H Date: 1998-05-08 01:00:00 Subject: Make a scrub plane? Gentlemen ,e'r, um, and Galoots: Can I make a scrub plain from a regular metal plane by simply curving the edge of the blade? If so, is a #5 a good candidate? Best, Nat Hooper Oxford, Arkansas There IS more to life than sitting wondering if there is more to life. ---- Start of Message 42820 (thread 18971) ---- From: Billy Patton Date: 1998-05-07 13:13:00 Subject: RE: Make a scrub plane? Bought myself a newer gray MF (same as Stanley #4) , haven't rounded the blade yet but I just move the lever to skew the blade and eat some meat! My MF cost $12 and looked like it had never been used. The sole is not flat from side to side or end to end. -----Original Message----- From: Nat H [SMTP:nhoop@c...] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 8:00 PM To: oldtools@l... Subject: Make a scrub plane? Gentlemen ,e'r, um, and Galoots: Can I make a scrub plain from a regular metal plane by simply curving the edge of the blade? If so, is a #5 a good candidate? Best, Nat Hooper Oxford, Arkansas There IS more to life than sitting wondering if there is more to life. ---- Start of Message 42827 (thread 18971) ---- From: Rodney Myrvaagnes Date: 1998-05-07 05:51:00 Subject: Re: Make a scrub plane? On Fri, 08 May 1998 01:00:03 GMT, Nat H wrote: >Can I make a scrub plain from a regular metal plane by simply curving the >edge of the blade? If so, is a #5 a good candidate? If the throat is wide, sure. But a scrub is a very non-critical thing to make of wood. Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a rodneym@i... 20 years without a car, TV, or website ---- Start of Message 42830 (thread 18971) ---- From: David Boreham Date: 1998-05-07 15:26:00 Subject: Re: Make a scrub plane? >Bought myself a newer gray MF (same as Stanley #4) , haven't rounded the blade >yet but I just move the lever to skew the blade and eat some meat! > >My MF cost $12 and looked like it had never been used. The sole >is not flat from side to side or end to end. Hmm. My #40, found at the FM on Saturday, only cost $10. I suppose this must be my first gloat. First thing I've honed freehand too. ---- Start of Message 42835 (thread 18971) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-07 15:41:00 Subject: Re: Make a scrub plane? Nat H wrote: > > Gentlemen ,e'r, um, and Galoots: > > Can I make a scrub plain from a regular metal plane by simply curving the > edge of the blade? If so, is a #5 a good candidate? > While you can make a "rough" plane easily enough (and I keep a crappy crapsman #5 around just for this) it won't really be a true scrub. It'll be great for quick stock removal, but the width of the sole and blade will prevent it from being able to be as aggressive as a true scrub. The first time I used a #40 it was quite a revalation as to how much wood you could quickly waste without a lot of effort. So by all means, use your #5 as a roughing plane, but don't turn down that $20 #40 at a garage sale. ---- Start of Message 42865 (thread 18971) ---- From: Nat H Date: 1998-05-08 09:38:00 Subject: Re: Make a scrub plane? I've gotten so many informative replies to my request on scrub planes I cannot possibly answer them all. so I'm saying, sincerely; THANK Y'ALL!!! Best, Nat Hooper Oxford, near Toad Suck, AR ++++ End of thread 18971 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18972 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42821 (thread 18972) ---- From: Michael R. Shortreed Date: 1998-05-07 13:33:00 Subject: wax your plane soles!!! I guess I must be the last idiot on the block to get this one. So I picked up this furniture paste wax the other day cuzz I'm zapping the tar out of everything that is not bolted down and they tell me I gotta wax every thing up after zapping or it'll rust back lickety split. (was that a run on?) Anyhow, so last night I'm planing/planning this maple cutting board and it's goin ssssllllllooooowwww and it's hard work. Meanwhile I'm staring at this can of paste wax on my bench dreaming about shiny waxy tools and out of the blue I remember (wax the sole of your plane wax the sole of your plane wax the sole of your plane wax the sole of your plane). I couldn't stop the voices in my head. So I grabbed that can of wax and put I nice coat on the sole of my plane. I set it aside to dry and put the back on a chisel cabinet I been dragging my heals on. Back to the plane, wax dry, I hand rub it off. Back to planning. What's this? Is this the same plane? I feels like it lost weight. I'm planning so fast it's uncomfortable. I gotta slow down. I stop. I think. Could the wax have made that big a difference? It was like one of those superconducting magnets that just hover in the air with absolutely no friction. All this time I must have been thinking that (well I lapped the sole of my plane and that is about as smooth as it's gonna get. no can a wax is gonna make that big a difference). well IT DOES. Is say again, am I the last idiot on the block to get this one? side point: Avoid wax with silicones, or so I'm told. I'm not gonna wait around and try to figure this one out on my own. Guess I'll just listen this time. -michael Dr. Michael R. Shortreed Iowa State University Phone: (515) 294-1127 Rm. 7 Office & Laboratory Fax: (515) 294-3623 Ames, IA 50011 http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mshort/homepage.html ---- Start of Message 42831 (thread 18972) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-07 15:33:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! Michael R. Shortreed wrote: > Back to planning. What's this? Is > this the same plane? I feels like it lost weight. I'm planning so fast > it's uncomfortable. I gotta slow down. I stop. I think. Could the wax > have made that big a difference? It was like one of those superconducting > magnets that just hover in the air with absolutely no friction. All this > time I must have been thinking that (well I lapped the sole of my plane > and that is about as smooth as it's gonna get. no can a wax is gonna make > that big a difference). well IT DOES. Is say again, am I the last idiot > on the block to get this one? Doubt it. How big is your block? B^) I have a box of votive candles (100% beeswax - a bit hard to find but I once worked for a company that distributed the things) that I keep in the shop. I pull off the little metal part that weights the wick and then use them for everything from lubing screws to rubbing them on saw blades and plane soles, to a low tech finish for utility turned objects (like tool handles). I think this approach is handier than paste wax, though paste wax might work better for some situations. > > side point: Avoid wax with silicones, or so I'm told. I'm not gonna wait > around and try to figure this one out on my own. Guess I'll just listen > this time. Silicone on the wood can screw up later applications of finishes. ---- Start of Message 42837 (thread 18972) ---- From: NLutz10449 Date: 1998-05-07 12:02:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! In a message dated 98-05-07 09:34:32 EDT, mshort@C... writes: > > side point: Avoid wax with silicones, or so I'm told. I'm not gonna wait > around and try to figure this one out on my own. Guess I'll just listen > this time. If silicone gets into the wood you're planing, it's there forever. No solvent is going to get it out. It will have a detrimental effect on any finishing you do later. I wish I had known that before spray polish (Lemon Pl*dge) got used on my store-bought maple dining room table. If that ever needs refinishing, it may come out blotchy. Erik von Sneidern Syracuse, NY ---- Start of Message 42839 (thread 18972) ---- From: PeterH5322 Date: 1998-05-07 12:43:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! In a message dated 5/7/98 9:36:41 AM, you wrote: << Silicone on the wood can screw up later applications of finishes. >> Glueing, to ---- Start of Message 42843 (thread 18972) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-07 17:39:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! FWIW The paraffin wax sold for home canning comes in rectangular bars about 1/2" thick and 2" x 6" or so. Makes a nice handy size to use (and for that matter, later find on the benchtop). Ed Balko Middletown, NJ ---- Start of Message 42847 (thread 18972) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-07 18:34:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! NLutz10449 Wrote: >If silicone gets into the wood you're planing, it's there forever. No >solvent >is going to get it out. It will have a detrimental effect on any finishing >you do later. Ya can seal it in with shellac. Thas the only way I know of. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 42849 (thread 18972) ---- From: Steven Johnson (MSR) Date: 1998-05-07 18:52:00 Subject: RE: wax your plane soles!!! NLutz10449 Wrote: >If silicone gets into the wood you're planing, it's there forever. No >solvent >is going to get it out. It will have a detrimental effect on any finishing >you do later. Ya can seal it in with shellac. Thas the only way I know of. Or sand through it down to bare wood. Steve ---- Start of Message 42852 (thread 18972) ---- From: Louis Michaud Date: 1998-05-07 19:35:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! FWIW >The paraffin wax sold for home canning comes in rectangular bars about 1/2" >thick and 2" x 6" or so. Makes a nice handy size to use (and for that >matter, later find on the benchtop). > >Ed Balko Also to lubricate or mix your own paste wax: toilet wax rings. They're usually pure beeswax, cheap too. Louis ---- Start of Message 42856 (thread 18972) ---- From: David R. Hunkins Date: 1998-05-07 19:39:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! At 5/7/1998 10:39, Ed_Balko@E... wrote: >FWIW > >The paraffin wax sold for home canning comes in rectangular bars about 1/2" >thick and 2" x 6" or so. Makes a nice handy size to use (and for that >matter, later find on the benchtop). GG's ... When I first learned that soap was corrosive and not the best choice for lubricating screws, I bought one of those cardboard packages of canning paraffin at the grocery store. It contained multiple blocks of the size Ed mentions. I've used it since and am a certified paraffin convert. Something fun happened not too long after I'd bought the box. It sat either too near the heater or maybe in full sun on a hot day, I can't remember now ... but the entire box o' slabs became "welded" into one. The cardboard got thrown out and I've used my freestanding wax sculpture for a long time. It sits on a shelf close to the bench and I reach for it daily ... dragging the threads of screws over its edges or picking it up to scribble a line of slickness on the sole of a plane. Yup ... good stuff. Shop requirement IMO. David ---- Start of Message 42891 (thread 18972) ---- From: Don Groves Date: 1998-05-08 02:30:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! At 15:35 5/7/98 -0400, Louis Michaud wrote: >Also to lubricate or mix your own paste wax: toilet wax rings. >They're usually pure beeswax, cheap too. I tried that, Louis, but SWMBO caught me and made me put it back under the toilet. Don ---- Start of Message 42907 (thread 18972) ---- From: Louis Michaud Date: 1998-05-08 12:50:00 Subject: Re: wax your plane soles!!! At 19:30 07/05/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Also to lubricate or mix your own paste wax: toilet wax rings. >I tried that, Louis, but SWMBO caught me and made >me put it back under the toilet. >Don Inside toilet!!??? To be a Galoot or not to be a Galoot, use an outhouse!!! Oldtool content: you'll need an old crowbar with nice patina and rounded edges (important) to pry your a... off the seat at -20... Louis ---- Start of Message 43075 (thread 18972) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 21:55:00 Subject: RE: wax your plane soles!!! On Friday, (OK, so I'm behind) Louis Michaud wrote: > >>Also to lubricate or mix your own paste wax: toilet wax rings. > > And Don said: > >I tried that, Louis, but SWMBO caught me and made > >me put it back under the toilet. > >Don Oh man! You guys are going to get me in trouble for giggling at work. - Bill ROTFL big time ++++ End of thread 18972 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18973 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42828 (thread 18973) ---- From: Ted Scott Date: 1998-05-07 10:04:00 Subject: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) On 6 May 98 at 12:15, Patrick Olguin wrote: > Ted plays the "it ain't rocket science card", wrt building bench > bases. There you go putting words in my mouf... I never said that it ain't rocket science, I meerely implied it. Besides, having done rocket science in a previous life, I prefer the brain surgery analogy. (technically it weren't rocket science, it were submarine navigation science, but that's close enuf fer gubmint werk) > Of course it's not... if you have a bench. Well I didn't always have a bench. I built my bootstrap bench on a couple of rickety-large-retail-home-improvement-store-kit-sawhorses out of 3/4" && 3/8" ACX fir ply. It's a box type affair on the web page. Tain't pretty, but I never got around to putting on a face frame etc. There's a photo on: http://hootinholler.com/shop/ > For the galoot who simply cannot take it any more, who can no longer > suffer the embarrassment of pounding mortices on a busted workmutt, > who can't use a hand saw because the flat surface he refers to as a > bench wobbles more than a Mexican's knees on Cinco de Mayo (or an > Irshman's knees on St. Paddy's Day), then the cast iron legs are a > quick and easy way to knock out a bootstrap bench. Cheap, it's not, > relatively speaking. You have my empathy, except I didn't have the luxury of the workmutt. (Shoes? you had shoes? In my day... ;-) Ok, I have to agree with you that yours is a quick way, but, in your own words it wasn't all that easy? ( I could be suffering from memory lossage here, but something comes to mind about having to replace threaded rods and having four hands?) And you had to add feet anyway, so, if you want a quick and cheap solution, (admittedly it will probably be more work), very solid trestles can be made from dimensional pine and carriage bolts. The only mortices you need to cut are for the stretcher(s) (4 of 'em). > Basically, I'd come to the end of my woodworking rope, with respect > to my workmutt, and it was either have an instant bench, or take the > pipe. Having done a lot of (alledged) work on wobbily sawhorses, I can relate. I don't know what take the pipe is? > I consulted a few of the ponytailed and Birkenstock-attired folks > who work around here, and they all agreed that building a nice > trestle base for a cabinetmaker's workbench was much more difficult > than calculating the latest sling-shot around Venus for the Cassini > spacecraft, so in truth, you guys are right. Building a base isn't > rocket science, it's harder than rocket science! Hmm, must be the Birkenstocks, cause I gots a pony tail. There's an old Polish saying that what you lack in your brain you make up for with your feet, (meaning that if you forget something you have to walk back to get it), but I digress. Ok, you need: a 2x12 that is twice the hieght of the trestle a 2x8 that is the length of the base plus 16" or an alternative: 2 2x8's that are the length of the base. 2x4s total length: (in some efficient length) 6x the length of the feet minus 22.5" (6x the width of the top minus (4x the setback from the edge)) minus 22.5" (which is 6x the length of the trestle tops - 22.5"). a couple of dozen carriage bolts w/nuts and washers. 3/8"x5" will do. Cut the 2x12 into 2 pieces the length of the height of the trestle. Cut 4 pieces of 2x4 the length of the feet, 4 pieces (to infill) the length of the feet - 11.25" / 2, 4 pieces the length of the trestle top, and 4 the length of the trestle top - 11.25" / 2 Build up a sandwich for each trestle: 2x4, 2x12 and 2x4 infill pieces, and 2x4. clamp them together making sure the infill pieces are tight against the 2x12 forming a solid mortice, drill and bolt them up, 2 bolts through each infill piece and 2 bolts through the 2x12. Bottom or top view: ________________ [_____ _____ ____] <- 2x4 [_____[_____]____] <- 2-2x4 infill and end of 2x12 [________________] <- 2x4 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ <- Insert bolts at ^ You can either use 2 stretchers spiked into the morticed edges of the 2x12s with 16d spikes: ______________ [][][] <- top of trestle [______________] || | | _____|| |_ _| | > || || < Spikes here | > || || < ______| > || || < || | | || ___|______|___ [][][] <- foot of trestle [______________] Or you can get fancy and use one stretcher with a tusk tennon, you can drive the wedge through the face of the 5.5" tennon ends of the 2x8 if you leave enough meat on the tennon: ______________ [][][] <- top of trestle [______________] || | | _____|| | | |--- | -- | |] | | =||= | ______|--- | -- | || | | || ___|______|___ [][][] <- foot of trestle [______________] A similar tennon is shown in the bottom right corner of the photo: http://hootinholler.com/shop/bnch1.jpg Except it's done in beech. Clear as mud? -Ted Who knows Paddy won't take this personally. Hootin Holler Joinery 301.748.0400 Fine Furniture and Architectural Woodwork. http://hootinholler.com ---- Start of Message 42836 (thread 18973) ---- From: Jim Date: 1998-05-07 15:48:00 Subject: Re: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) snip > >> Of course it's not... if you have a bench. > snip >> For the galoot who simply cannot take it any more, who can no longer >> suffer the embarrassment of pounding mortices on a busted workmutt, >> who can't use a hand saw because the flat surface he refers to as a >> bench wobbles more than a Mexican's knees on Cinco de Mayo (or an >> Irshman's knees on St. Paddy's Day), then the cast iron legs are a >> quick and easy way to knock out a bootstrap bench. Cheap, it's not, >> relatively speaking. > >You have my empathy, except I didn't have the luxury of the workmutt. >(Shoes? you had shoes? In my day... ;-) Ok, I have to agree with you >that yours is a quick way, but, in your own words it wasn't all that >easy? ( I could be suffering from memory lossage here, but something >comes to mind about having to replace threaded rods and having four >hands?) And you had to add feet anyway, so, if you want a quick and >cheap solution, (admittedly it will probably be more work), very >solid trestles can be made from dimensional pine and carriage bolts. >The only mortices you need to cut are for the stretcher(s) (4 of >'em). > snip Suppose this has been said before -- but, I found a use for my t*bl*e s*w in the form of a benchtop. It is small, but stable enough for most tasks. When it gets to sliding, I just put my foot down (on a leg brace that is) and that takes care of it. Since I purchased a t*bl* s*w before I discovered I was a neandrathal, I have to use it in some fashion to justify the cost (think of all those old tools I could have bought instead) As it seems I have done all of my life -- I have made the construction of my bench more difficult by trying to save a few bucks. I am using reclaimed 4" wide hickory flooring. The following additional tasks had to be accomplished before the wood could be used: 1. Old finish had to be taken off and glue off backside 2. Nails had to be taken out (so far I have gotten them all and have not wrecked a blade) 3. Tongue and groove had to be taken off (I must admit that the majority of this was done as I was de-evolutionizing) 4. To get something that could be used, I had to glue three planks together to make a single 3-3/4 x 2-1/4 board. This is my standard building block. I have tried my hand at big dovetails for the corners of the top. Am using mortise and tenon on the leg assemblies and have inset the crossmembers of the ladderframe for the top using dadoes. All were hand done (some could have been done better, but I am using the bench to learn from) I see references to all thread and bolts in these meanderings on benches. In thinking about my bench (with all of the gluing), I am worried about the Arizona heat (the garage will begin to tip 100 degrees this summer with almost no humidity) I had reconciled to using bolts for my vises, and T bolts for the crossmembers on my legs (so I could break down the bench for moving), however, I have hesitated to consider using all thread or other bolts to hold my bench together. My thought was to use glued dowels to help keep everything together. Is this overkill? Should I be worried about the heat and the glue? Do I hafta break down and use metal all thread or bolts to hold everything together? Jim Bob ---- Start of Message 42846 (thread 18973) ---- From: Mike Weaver Date: 1998-05-07 18:12:00 Subject: Re: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) "Ted Scott" ted@H... writes: > On 6 May 98 at 12:15, Patrick Olguin wrote: > > > Of course it's not... if you have a bench. > > Well I didn't always have a bench. I built my bootstrap bench on a > couple of rickety-large-retail-home-improvement-store-kit-sawhorses > out of 3/4" && 3/8" ACX fir ply. It's a box type affair on the web > page. Tain't pretty, but I never got around to putting on a face > frame etc. There's a photo on: > http://hootinholler.com/shop/ I can personally attest to the rickety-ness of these sawhorses too, BTW! > You can either use 2 stretchers spiked into the morticed edges of the > 2x12s with 16d spikes: Or, drill and bolt them. You could even put a small piece of either plywood, or hardboard under the bolt head, and under the nut to minimize fiber crushing when you tighten it up. Not pretty, but this *is* a bootstrap bench, right? > Clear as mud? Yep, sure is! -Mike Who knows Paddy enjoys some good natured ribbing every once in a while. ----------------- Michael P. Weaver Email: mikew@u... Database Program Administrator Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250 Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's. ---- Start of Message 42862 (thread 18973) ---- From: Jeff Steele Date: 1998-05-07 21:27:00 Subject: Re: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) On Thu, 7 May 1998, Ted Scott wrote: > On 6 May 98 at 12:15, Patrick Olguin wrote: > > Ted plays the "it ain't rocket science card", wrt building bench > > bases. > > There you go putting words in my mouf... I never said that it ain't > rocket science, I meerely implied it. Besides, having done rocket > science in a previous life, I prefer the brain surgery analogy. > (technically it weren't rocket science, it were submarine navigation > science, but that's close enuf fer gubmint werk) Actually, I was the one who played the "IARS" card in a reply to Ted's post. (BTW, When I was at Caltech my roommate was studying hypersonic combustion. A friend who was doing research in String Theory (very abstruse theoretical physics) once asked him what he did. His reply : "Oh, it's only rocket science...") > > > Of course it's not... if you have a bench. > > Well I didn't always have a bench. I built my bootstrap bench on a > couple of rickety-large-retail-home-improvement-store-kit-sawhorses > out of 3/4" && 3/8" ACX fir ply. Sawhorses ? You had sawhorses ? I built my bench using C-clamps to hold stuff to the handrail on the basement stairs. At least I could always get the height I wanted . > > Basically, I'd come to the end of my woodworking rope, with respect > > to my workmutt, and it was either have an instant bench, or take the > > pipe. > > I don't know what take the pipe is? > Yes, do be kind enough to explain that. My hunch is that more than two of us missed the reference. And since we're on the topic of benches, I'll just go ahead and announce that mine is now officially complete. My first project, done. (A couple of local politicians, a few blonde beauties in swimsuits, and a crowd of onlookers with confetti watch excitedly and cheer as me and SWMBO hold the 2-foot scissors and, after an awkward attempt or two, cut the ribbon. Afterwards, there's free hotdogs and soda for everybody.) The base was all 2x4s as described in the "rocket science" post. The top was laminated (with threaded rod and glue) "premium pine" 1x3s from Home Despot (Actually about a third of them are 1x2s, making for a corrugated underside. Don't ask why...) I sawed a 2" wide groove across the underside of the top to fit the upper 2x4s of the base and pinned the front edge only with a dowel. I put a 3/4 x 6" slot near the left end for a maple planing stop which clamps to the leg. On the front and right end I added some maple for a durable clamping surface and vise cheeks. These two pieces are joined with my very first dovetail. (It's really beautiful - I love the contrast of the long grain, the end grain and the epoxy. I guess that as years go by, it will serve as sort of a benchmark. Nyuk, nyuk.) There's only one vise for now: a Record which I got on sale from Highland Hardware for $20.00. It's small but very solid. With the 10 x 4-1/2 x 1-1/2" maple jaws I added, the capacity is a hair shy of 5". A little on the wimpy side, but keep in mind that the total cost of this bench (no scrounging) was around $150. And for planing and chopping mortises, I've found it to be plenty solid. The maple along the front face is 2-1/2" wide for most of its length, flaring to 4-1/2" near the right end to mate nicely with the vise cheeks. I scribed a line at 2-1/2", another at 4-1/2", and then used a stiff piece of stiff veneer to trace a graceful curve for the transition. Cut it with a rip saw and a coping saw, and cleaned up the curved part with a drawknife. What an awesome tool; can't wait to use it more. And now I really wanna get that spokeshave finished. Cheers, Jeff whose list of unfinished projects is a few percent shorter. ---- Start of Message 42866 (thread 18973) ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 1998-05-07 21:39:00 Subject: Re: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) > I don't know what take the pipe is? Then you people don't watch enough Woody Allen movies. It refers to sucking a gas pipe, as opposed to conintuing living. That's what a wobbly Wormutt will do to you. What I failed to mention was that I played the woodworking-in-the-kitchen card, which prompted the missus to do anything to expedite my bench. You see I cut all the joinery for my son's apron table right in the kitchen, on our lovely Formica-topped kitchen table. I only had to tighten the wingnuts on the legs every two or three saw strokes, to keep the whole table from sashaying right out the back door. The Formica held up rather well under the beating of banging out mortices. The missus was glad to get her microwave cart back, when I hauled the clamps, shoulder plane, chisels, saws and block plane back out to the garage. Of course when I first started woodworking, I had to work in a shoebox in the middle of the road. Every morning I had to get up, eat two handfuls of freezing gravel, and plane the road flat with my #8. But you try telling that to the galoots of today, and will they believe you? No! Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU -- Old tools and old fools: a dangerous combination http://www.concentric.net/~odeen/oldtools ---- Start of Message 42896 (thread 18973) ---- From: Andrew Barss Date: 1998-05-08 06:13:00 Subject: Re: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) On Thu, 7 May 1998, Patrick Olguin wrote: > Of course when I first started woodworking, I had to work in a > shoebox in the middle of the road. They had roads where you were, eh? Why, when I was a boy, we *dreamed* of having roads! Yessir! We planed wood with our eyeballs, and we *liked* it that way. -- Geezer mcDeezer ---- Start of Message 42900 (thread 18973) ---- From: NLutz10449 Date: 1998-05-08 08:03:00 Subject: Re: Bootstrap trestle base (was Rocket Science (was butchering )) In a message dated 98-05-08 02:15:11 EDT, barss@U... writes: > On Thu, 7 May 1998, Patrick Olguin wrote: > > > Of course when I first started woodworking, I had to work in a > > shoebox in the middle of the road. > > They had roads where you were, eh? Why, when I was a boy, we > *dreamed* of having roads! Yessir! We planed wood with our eyeballs, and > we *liked* it that way. > > -- Geezer mcDeezer > Well at least you *had* wood. We hadda make our own. -- Fibber McGibber ++++ End of thread 18973 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18974 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42829 (thread 18974) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-07 14:54:00 Subject: MF #87 Breast drill ? Hello GG's It's Bruce VanSlouns Fault he showed me his MF #87 the other day and now I have drool all over my work clothes just thinking about this multi - talented marvel of engineering. So how much would a bottom feeder like me expect to pay for one of these beauties - a nice shiney one 0 not necessarily minty though - I'll leave those for the collectors :) TIA HAGD (have a good day) AI taak %^) \|// ( * ) -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18974 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18975 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42834 (thread 18975) ---- From: John Horne Date: 1998-05-07 15:37:00 Subject: Rejuvenate that Cedar Chest with a No. 80 GG's, My wife snagged a great blanket chest at an estate sale for minimal dinero, but alas the pungent aroma of freshly exposed cedar had long since waned. Never missing an opportunity to justify my tool acquisitions, I figured this was a job for my SW-era No. 80 (minor gloat - full japanning and nickel with 2" original iron for $27). I had previously lapped the sole and prepared the blade ala Brendler's homepage, so this baby was ready to rumble. Anyway, when I put sole to wood, wispy curls of cedar spewed forth like so much verbage from a southern baptist preacher. Cranky grain and knots - plenty of knots - were no match for this tool. I finished-off the corners with my Sandvik scraper blade (damn, where's that #85 when ya need it?...). Total time: about 20 minutes and no sandah's required. Regards, John ++++ End of thread 18975 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18976 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42838 (thread 18976) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-07 16:37:00 Subject: Speaking of Table Saws Speaking of Tablesaws - the pile -o- pieces table saw has been sold! I am now totally galooting it !! well there is that power hand drill, and the power screwdriver but they usually scurry into the dark corners when they see me coming :) Aaron -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18976 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18977 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42850 (thread 18977) ---- From: CHARLIE ZUERCHER Date: 1998-05-07 12:53:00 Subject: gloat GGs, This gloat is from the weekend, but I have to share - went to the local police auction on Saturday, ended up with user mountain bike that someone had hit with white spray paint. cost all of $2 for what turned out to be a very nice Diamondback bike. About the most success I've had locally, tho - probably due to Chuck Zitur's pillaging runs through SW Montana :) OT content - anyone know if one of John G's spokeshave kits can be modified to scrape paint on a bike frame? Or maybe I should pick up a 112 for the job? Would an infill work better, or would less mass/lighter weight be better? Thanks for ALL your help! Charlie ---- Start of Message 44282 (thread 18977) ---- From: TomPrice@a... Date: 1998-06-02 02:04:00 Subject: Re: GLOAT Hi Tom, >Well the thing was still there, and I even haggled 'em down a bit. >Dragged it home and I am set to drill straight vertical holes, esp >useful for spokeshave tangs and axle holes for a certain treadle device >that I have no reason not to finish now. Damn good gloat! I'd love to run across one of these babies someday. Regards, Tom ++++ End of thread 18977 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18978 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42853 (thread 18978) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-07 19:41:00 Subject: T'gating at EAIA T'wasn't much of a good looking day to start. Rain, clouds, plus the fact that the hotel, suffers greatly from a lack of parking space. Of course, if the dummy here had registered early, I would have had a fully covered spot rather than a partially covered one. Drizzled for the first hour or so then the sun came out and it actually got nice out. Sales were light..moved a few ends and odds. Picked up a compass sash ovolo with a brass sole, kinda neat. Brass backed tenon saw as well. Happened to wind up next to Mark & Jane Rees (the folks that did the rework of Goodman's English Planemakers to put out the current 3rd edition), (even got them to autograph my road weary copy!). Learned a bit just listening to them. Karl Sanger was there, gee he dug out the "real" tables for this show. Not to mention the fact that he did a hit and run in my old home town and came up with a 51/52 (quickly resold I might add). Patrick Leach was there..wearing a hat? But it was a fun day..worth the trip. Tony ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Intercourse, PA ________________________________________________________ ---- Start of Message 42915 (thread 18978) ---- From: Karl W. Sanger Date: 1998-05-08 14:20:00 Subject: Re: T'gating at EAIA Missed Out Galoots: I'd like to add my 2 cents to Tony's on the first ever tailgating day at an EAIA meeting (Scranton, Pa.). John Williams drove (obviously a combat jet fighter pilot), Roy Schaffer and I rode on the 4 hour, that's one-way, trip from DC to Scranton. Great roads so John didn't have to taxi, he just lifted off and flew low in his '92 Explorer (Ford vehicle, Jeff). We left at 6am for the tailgating that started at 2pm, so we had plenty of time to "land" the Explorer and pillage the countryside for tools. Pickings were good, but Tony failed to mention two of the most important pieces about our stop in his old home town. Sure, we got a complete, including depth stop 51/52 chute board combo in seldom used condition. But, additionally, he forgot to mention that we also got a Wm. Goldsmith, Phila., one-star (ca. 1845) EBONY plow plane with IVORY nuts and it's blade set, a NOS (new old stock) #34VR rule, and a Stanley Four Square counter top display stand as shown on page 98 of Walter's Stanley big book price guide. The stand was minty, even having it's original tools description and price list on the back. Second, Tony forgot to mention that we got the stuff at his very own "old home town" hardware store!!!! As to the actual tailgate session, I thought there were some mistakes on EAIA's part in how they let folks in to sell, but it is their first try and I think they will become a little less bureaucratic in future tailgates. There was plenty of room that could have kept everyone dry! Several things surprised me about the tailgating. First, it was clear by the age of the attendees that you don't have to be over 90 to attend an EAIA meeting. Second, even the older folks there didn't just buy wood or primitives as was the customary collectible of their era - they bought quality, rarity and good buys. I actually think 'wood' continued a slow die at the meet. Although, the $1 and $2 usable molders that one guy was selling went immediately. Third, I thought tools sold VERY well. Because it was their first every tailgate, I think the EAIA regulars were late in arriving or arrived on Thursday, when the meeting actually began. But, even with the smaller than expected crowd, they bought voraciously! So, I think it was a super good day! I am still amazed at the fact that there were only a few Galoots present. I've have admonished in the past that I believe a drive of up to 400 miles (or 6 hours each way) for a day trip is warranted for any major tool event. I know it was on a Wednesday, a workday, but you gotta smell the roses. More importantly, it is at these events where you meet folks and can learn the most about tools themselves (these old EAIA guys know their tools stuff!), have fun, relax and maybe bring home a bargain. Oh, and Tony still won't sell me the Randall & Stickney bench gage he found and taunted at me at PATINA in March! I mean, really! He's actually asking a fair price for it! Bummer, ruined the whole day for me. Have a heart Tony! ***************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * ***************************************** ---- Start of Message 42965 (thread 18978) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-08 22:07:00 Subject: Re: T'gating at EAIA At 10:20 AM 5/8/98 -0400, Karl W. Sanger wrote: >Missed Out Galoots: > As to the actual tailgate session, I thought there were some >mistakes on EAIA's part in how they let folks in to sell, but it is their >first try and I think they will become a little less bureaucratic in future >tailgates. There was plenty of room that could have kept everyone dry! I agree, although other than the covered area, you have to admit that the hotel parking lot left little to be desired for this kind of activity. Way too cramped. > Oh, and Tony still won't sell me the Randall & Stickney bench gage >he found and taunted at me at PATINA in March! I mean, really! He's >actually asking a fair price for it! Bummer, ruined the whole day for me. >Have a heart Tony! > Hey, all you have to do is say the magic word......money Later Tony ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Blueball, PA ________________________________________________________ ++++ End of thread 18978 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18979 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42855 (thread 18979) ---- From: Paul Coppinger Date: 1998-05-07 21:46:00 Subject: Eggbeater Wins Again Eric wrote "Sounds good, but, as the little picture shows, the "hand drill" they're using isn't an eggbeater. It's sorta like a star drill (Rawl is the best-known supplier). You just beat on it with a hammer while you turn the drill slowly. " When I saw this at at 7am, the photo was of a grinning sherpa only. So I guess we can now change the Subject to "Handtools Win Again". Best regards. Paul Coppinger cop@t... ++++ End of thread 18979 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18980 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42857 (thread 18980) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-07 19:49:00 Subject: Bonanza Day on the Porch I just wanted to do a little trumpet fanfare here for what has been a red-letter day on the porch IMHO. From time-to-time I get a little groused about the lack of old tools content..... a little guilty feeling for not contributing more myself etc etc. But I have been struck by how much really great information has been shared on the porch today...Randy's fantastic MF page.... the detailed info on spalting.... waxing planes etc etc.... All I can say is THANKS to everyone who goes that extra mile to key in a lot of info that is freely shared, and I personally pledge to do what I can to keep up the quality of what we've seen today. It's been great. Thanks to all Tom ---- Start of Message 42876 (thread 18980) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-07 23:40:00 Subject: Re: Bonanza Day on the Porch > From time-to-time I get a little groused about the lack >of old tools content..... just wait till you seen my post on making a scrub-plane prepare for meltdown ;-) ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 18980 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18981 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42858 (thread 18981) ---- From: Jim Date: 1998-05-07 19:49:00 Subject: Old Bits There has been a thread going around about braces -- and as difficult as it is for me to identify the braces -- it is even more difficult to ID the bits for them. (If this is an old bit that has already been covered, could someone just point me to the right place off-line) If you see a bunch of rusty bits in a bucket -- what makes one stand out as an old tool and not someone's recently bought new bit that is sitting there getting rusty for a reason? Any help to a newbie would be appreciated. Jim Bob ---- Start of Message 42870 (thread 18981) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-07 23:42:00 Subject: Re: Old Bits If a bit is rusty, it ain't worth the effort. Russell Jennings, Snell, Greenlee, Irwin are all very good. You need to look for a clean thread, straight shank, lips with enought material left to sharpen and spurs that are not undercut or mishapen. My advise is to hold out for the good ones... they're just around the corner. Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ++++ End of thread 18981 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18982 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42864 (thread 18982) ---- From: Doug Dawson Date: 1998-05-07 21:36:00 Subject: I can't think of anything to say. Okay, I'll come right out and admit it: I can't think of anything to say. I do my woodworking just as I always have, and I do the things in it that I like, and not much changes. Time and wood comes, and time and wood goes. Shavings are made. They float. I am happy. However, having followed this list virtually since its inception, and read all the stuff that has come and gone, I find that I am now contributing virtually nothing, because I already said stuff before, and I loathe repeating myself ( not a very good characteristic to have in this type of electronic medium, I'll admit. ) What can be done to cure this deep malaise of communication, which troubles me. Doug Dawson dawson@p... ---- Start of Message 42867 (thread 18982) ---- From: Ron Harper Date: 1998-05-07 21:59:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. > > What can be done to cure this deep malaise of communication, > which troubles me. The woeful lament from Doug: The knowledge that he is a academic type renders this a little unbelievable. but.... lets us dor the sake etc. etc.. Is the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi still about ? Or James Earl Carter, a woodworker of some repute had the bad malaise...if memory serves. He seems to have recovered. Perhaps a trek to Plains is the ticket.? Does Earnest Angley do malaise? You really don't have to say anything for awhile. You are kinda caught up. The "hanging hole " troll of fond memory is a classic that should float in cyberspace for eons. For the moment malaise free in the heartland Ron ---- Start of Message 42871 (thread 18982) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-07 23:46:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. While I hate to state the obvious (as you all well know), it seems that you have successfully said something worthwhile... At 4:36 PM -0500 5/7/98, Doug Dawson wrote: > Okay, I'll come right out and admit it: I can't think of anything > to say. I do my woodworking just as I always have, and I do the > things in it that I like, and not much changes. Time and wood > comes, and time and wood goes. Shavings are made. They float. > I am happy. > > However, having followed this list virtually since its inception, > and read all the stuff that has come and gone, I find that I am > now contributing virtually nothing, because I already said stuff > before, and I loathe repeating myself ( not a very good > characteristic to have in this type of electronic medium, I'll > admit. ) > > What can be done to cure this deep malaise of communication, > which troubles me. > > Doug Dawson > dawson@p... > >---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42880 (thread 18982) ---- From: David Sutton Date: 1998-05-08 00:20:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. > > What can be done to cure this deep malaise of communication, > which troubles me. > > Doug Dawson Doug Just remind yourself that dozens of new galoots flock to the porch every month or two and they haven't heard a word of what you said last year on the same porch. We also prefer to hear it (whatever IT may be) in "real time" in the fresh air out here on the porch, rather than poking around alone in the dusty moldy hyperarchives. So there. Speak up! ----------) > dawson@p... > >---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42883 (thread 18982) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-07 16:23:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. David said to Doug: > We also prefer to hear it (whatever IT > may be) in "real time" in the fresh air out here on the porch, > rather than poking around alone in the dusty moldy hyperarchives. So > there. Speak up! ----------) Doug had said he loathed repeating himself. I can relate to that. But it bothers me too, to answer a question from someone who wasn't here months ago when my answer is something I learned from Doug (only I can't remember who to give credit to). I'm sure I was one of those with the repeat questions many times. I'd feel strange answering a question when the person who enlightened me is right there reading his own words coming off my keyboard. On the other hand, if poor Ron Hock has to repeat his heat treating info every time five new galoots join in the fun, he's going to want to set up a little program to just do it for him every two weeks. So, I dunno, Doug. I agree, but please don't leave it up to me to pass along my interpretation of what I think you said. Gene ---- Start of Message 42889 (thread 18982) ---- From: David Sutton Date: 1998-05-08 02:17:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. >I'd feel strange answering a question when the person who enlightened >me is right there reading his own words coming off my keyboard. Why? It oughta make 'em proud! They learned it from someone, most likely, and passed it on to you. Besides, they might not be looking that day, then a new galoot goes answerless. >On the other hand, if poor Ron Hock has to repeat his heat treating >info every time five new galoots join in the fun, he's going to want >to set up a little program to just do it for him every two weeks. ---- Start of Message 42909 (thread 18982) ---- From: Aaron C Davis Date: 1998-05-08 13:37:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. Hey Doug, I'm pretty new to the list, but I think the best thing about it is that someone can ask the simplest question and get many answers and not feel like a fool for asking it. Not like in some places where the only responses to a sincere question are: go to the library, check the faq, dejanews, etc. (i.e. wreck.ww) :) So please for my sake and the sake of other recent converts, keep on posting. thanks, aaron On Thu, 7 May 1998, Doug Dawson wrote: snip > However, having followed this list virtually since its inception, > and read all the stuff that has come and gone, I find that I am > now contributing virtually nothing, because I already said stuff > before, and I loathe repeating myself ( not a very good > characteristic to have in this type of electronic medium, I'll > admit. ) > > What can be done to cure this deep malaise of communication, > which troubles me. > ---- Start of Message 42944 (thread 18982) ---- From: John R Mudd Date: 1998-05-08 18:15:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. > But it bothers me too, to answer a question from someone who wasn't > here months ago when my answer is something I learned from Doug (only > I can't remember who to give credit to). I'm sure I was one of those > with the repeat questions many times. I find myself constantly using DejaNews as a resource for looking things up before posting questions to newsgroups. Most times, my questions have previously been answered and I don't even need to post. Perhaps Oldtools needs to revamp the list archives to make it easier for newer members to look their questions up. I'm not sure whether the Findmail "archive" is searchable. Not intended as a criticism. ---- Start of Message 42953 (thread 18982) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-08 10:40:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. Searchable archives might be OK for some things that have been said before. But it's dark and cobwebby in there. It's just not like getting the same answer live, complete with grumblings like "How many times do I need to say...", or some fresh humor. Doug D. is able to drive me up a wall. I would miss that, and archives just can't do it. Archives aren't as good as a keyboard, which isn't as good as a phone, which isn't as good as eye to eye. Gene ---- Start of Message 42973 (thread 18982) ---- From: Larry Poffenberger Date: 1998-05-08 23:08:00 Subject: Re: I can't think of anything to say. At 09:23 PM 5/7/98 +0500, eugene@n... wrote: Snippage here >I'd feel strange answering a question when the person who enlightened >me is right there reading his own words coming off my keyboard. More snippage Hi Eugene, My solution to this problem is thus: The first time you repeat info, give full credit to the person you got it from "So & so told me..."... The second time, start out "As I heard somewhere...". After that it's "As I always say...". :>) Regards, Larry EMAIL: LKP@R... HOME PAGE: HTTP://WWW.RUSTYTOOL.CNCHOST.COM Shortcut to my Links: http://www.rustytool.cnchost.com/index.shtml#rustytools_links ---- Start of Message 43058 (thread 18982) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 17:16:00 Subject: RE: I can't think of anything to say. Our esteemed Doug Dawson wrote: > > Okay, I'll come right out and admit it: I can't think of anything > to say. > However, having followed this list virtually since its inception, > and read all the stuff that has come and gone, I find that I am > now contributing virtually nothing, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that Doug is not alone. I think a lot of the more experienced folks on the list have taken a hiatus or two, and I miss them when they're not yapping with the rest of us. Sure, the same topics often get repeated. That's how a group like ours forms an identity. We need a certain amount of common knowledge to feel comfortable. But, a remark about a mistake made while woodworking, or an epiphany, or even a well-worn rant can spark a whole new line of discussion on some tangentially related topic. That's when the more experienced Galoots can add some magic and perspective. So, I guess it's ok if Doug can't find much to say right now. I just don't want him to stop listening to the rest of us. - Bill ++++ End of thread 18982 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18983 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42868 (thread 18983) ---- From: Howard Lau Date: 1998-05-07 22:32:00 Subject: Antiquing of Tools?? Howdy, I was wasting part of my lunch looking through a couple of antique stores that, as usual, yielded nothing worth getting. I did notice something that had me wondering. A high percentage of the saws had missing screws. I was beginning to wonder, is this something that antique dealers are doing to make a tool look older? Could this be a trend like the old practice of beating up a piece of furniture with a chain to antique it? Are dealers antiquing tools, now. Seems in these stores, the more pathetic the condition, the higher the decorator value. What ya think? Any one notice any other antiquing tricks dealers might be using? I guess burying something in the back yard for a few weeks might be an obvious one. Guess I'm bored. ---- Start of Message 42881 (thread 18983) ---- From: Larry Poffenberger Date: 1998-05-08 00:20:00 Subject: Re: Antiquing of Tools?? At 04:32 PM 5/7/98 -0600, Howard Lau wrote: >Howdy, > >I was wasting part of my lunch looking through a couple of antique stores that, >as usual, yielded nothing worth getting. I did notice something that had me >wondering. A high percentage of the saws had missing screws. I was beginning >to wonder, is this something that antique dealers are doing to make a tool look >older? Could this be a trend like the old practice of beating up a piece of >furniture with a chain to antique it? Are dealers antiquing tools, now. Seems >in these stores, the more pathetic the condition, the higher the decorator >value. > >What ya think? Any one notice any other antiquing tricks dealers might be >using? I guess burying something in the back yard for a few weeks might be an >obvious one. Hi Howard, If any dealers are doing this, they must be totally ignorant of how tools are dated (which is quite possible). Tools aren't dated from how old they look, but from patent dates, features, styles, etc. I'm not much into wooden planes, etc., but it's my understanding that even these are dated from the style, sizes, makers stamps, etc. I agree that some dealers seem to think that the rustier, more mistreated and pathetic the tool looks, the older (and more valuable) it must be. Only little old YB ladies buying a tool to put in the den fall for this, as they deserve... Regards, Larry EMAIL: LKP@R... HOME PAGE: HTTP://WWW.RUSTYTOOL.CNCHOST.COM Shortcut to my Links: http://www.rustytool.cnchost.com/index.shtml#rustytools_links ---- Start of Message 42886 (thread 18983) ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 1998-05-08 01:27:00 Subject: Re: Antiquing of Tools?? Larry Poffenberger wrote: > > At 04:32 PM 5/7/98 -0600, Howard Lau wrote: > > I agree that some dealers seem to think that the rustier, more mistreated and > pathetic the tool looks, the older (and more valuable) it must be. I'd complain about this too, except....... Years ago SWMBO and me had a junk (& antique) shop. We happened to get two old wooden levels. One was a decent Disston, good vials, nice cherry. The other was total waste. No vials, looked like it had been in a fire, cheap model that never had end brasses. Garbage Next day a polyesther leisuresuited patron strolls in with her nose in the air. "I want that" she points a long bony but well manicured finger. "50 bucks" I shoot right back giving my best impression of not wanting to let a real treasure go cheap. Sold the "real" level for about $8 a couple weeks later. Scott -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * scottg@s... PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ ---- Start of Message 42902 (thread 18983) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-08 09:49:00 Subject: Re: Antiquing of Tools?? Howard wonders : >I was wasting part of my lunch looking through a couple of antique stores that, >as usual, yielded nothing worth getting. I did notice something that had me >wondering. A high percentage of the saws had missing screws. I've thought that this was due to the screws being pilfered to restore other saws. I see a lot of saws missing just their medallions (and don't buy them). Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ---- Start of Message 42904 (thread 18983) ---- From: Sanford Moss Date: 1998-05-08 11:43:00 Subject: Re: Antiquing of Tools?? At 04:32 PM 5/7/98 -0600, Howard Lau wrote: >What ya think? Any one notice any other antiquing tricks dealers might be >using? I guess burying something in the back yard for a few weeks might be an obvious one. Howard, The ones that burn my butt are the Van Gogh's that somehow think giving a tool a uniform coat of flat black paint (by dipping it) enhances its value. We've got at least one of them in our neighborhood, and these paint-patinated things (wrenches, machinists tools, saws, planes, etc) gravitate to the flea markets & secondary auctions all the time. Makes you want to cry. Then at the other end of the scale are the dealers that think buffing the bejesus out of a tool will help sell it. It's always an eye-opener to come out of a shop full of tools, and find that you still have clean hands. You wonder what else besides the grime was missing. Sandy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sanford Moss http://134.88.12.107/wworking.htm phone - (508) 999-8218 fax - (508) 999-8196 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---- Start of Message 43046 (thread 18983) ---- From: Garrett Spitzer Date: 1998-05-11 14:53:00 Subject: Re: Antiquing of Tools?? Howard was ruminating on the origin of nut and boltless saws - Having purchased some of these for a straight blade or finger hole handle, I have found that they are sometimes the result of a replacement blade. Many times all but one of the holes will line up. In addition, many of the first post bolts are surprisingly weak and can be snapped off quite easily. One saw in good condition looked completely intact, but when I took it apart to clean it, I found that half of the posts were snapped in the middle. And then there's always cannibalization.... Regards, Garrett ++++ End of thread 18983 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18984 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42869 (thread 18984) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-07 23:39:00 Subject: More dating Lufkin Dating Lufkin catalogs is certainly one pain in the tush. I was looking through a 12-A catalog of measuring rules and tapes. If you assumed that the No 7 is from the 1940's (as one of mine is dated), then you could make the assumption that a number 12 would be later. Right? Wrong. I quote: "Spoke Caliper Rule No. 046. Spoke Caliper rule. boxwood. Six inch. Per doz. $25.00. Two inches wide. Depth of calipe jaw 1 3/8 inch. Marked: caliper and rule in 16ths in.A one piece boxwood rule with brass caliper slide. Designed to measure diameter of WOOD SPOKES FOR AUTOMOBILE and other wheels. This wide and sturdy caliper gage is useful in other fields also." So there we have a date of somewhere in the 1920's or so. Unless anyone who is more up on cars can supply a better estimate. Oh, and the next rule is a Hook Stave Rule for measuring barrel staves. My birthday is coming up... hint hint. Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ---- Start of Message 42905 (thread 18984) ---- From: Blakley Bill Date: 1998-05-08 12:19:00 Subject: RE: More dating Lufkin Gary wrote: > Dating Lufkin catalogs is certainly one pain in the tush. I was > looking > through a 12-A catalog of measuring rules and tapes. If you assumed > that > the No 7 is from the 1940's (as one of mine is dated), then you could > make > the assumption that a number 12 would be later. > > Right? Wrong. I quote: > > "Spoke Caliper Rule No. 046. Spoke Caliper rule. boxwood. Six inch. > Per > doz. $25.00. Two inches wide. Depth of calipe jaw 1 3/8 inch. Marked: > caliper and rule in 16ths in.A one piece boxwood rule with brass > caliper > slide. Designed to measure diameter of WOOD SPOKES FOR AUTOMOBILE and > other > wheels. This wide and sturdy caliper gage is useful in other fields > also." > That is interesting because I understand the 12C has wooden rules and such. I have a copy of the 8 catalog (supplied by Gary, loaned out to an ex friend never to be seen again [the catalog that is]). The rule section of the 8 catalog has mostly metal rules and such which would indicate that it is later then the 12C. I am not sure what this means but I guess it confirms to look for higher numbers if you are interested in turn of the century stuff. BTW I see a lot more 7/8 catalogs then 12s (the only 12 I saw was scooped by Gary). We need a Lufkin type study. Bill Blakley ---- Start of Message 42920 (thread 18984) ---- From: Karl W. Sanger Date: 1998-05-08 14:45:00 Subject: Re: More dating Lufkin Galoots, I certainly concur with Gary that, as he said, "Dating Lufkin catalogs is certainly one pain in the tush." I don't know the date of the #12 Lufkin catalog either or why it should contain a tool that appears several decades older than tools found in a #7 Lufkin catalog. But I would like to suggest two thoughts. First, it is not at all uncommon to find in tool catalogs "cuts" and description either left-over or representing new found old stock from a bygone era. If one uses hardware store and stock supplier catalogs to try to type or date Stanley, it wouldn't be accurate. These guys carried old pictures and descriptions for years. This is also somewhat true for manufacture catalogs. Even today, there are tools in the new Starrett catalog that you can't buy - out of manufacture. (Oh, they'll make one for you, but instead of costing $120, it'll cost you $1500. Second, I still believe that catalogs follow a sequential numbering procession. That doesn't mean that there can't be a catalog 26, 26a, 26B, etc. So, it gets tough dating something - especially if the #26 is re-issued with changes for 10 years before they issue the 26A. But, it is also important to watch out for this. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to issue several different catalog types, each separately sequenced, such as a sequence line for precision tools, a line for general measuring tools and a tradesman's line. Each line of catalogs has it's own sequential catalog number. Thus, it is possible for a #10 XYZ catalog to be older than a #2 XYZ catalog, especially if they do not present the same exact mix of product. Lufkin did that. This makes dating catalogs all the more a pain in the tush! Makes one realize that you have to give more credit to Roger Smith (PTAMPIA's), Tom Lamond (Spokeshaves) and others for their labors and costs in bringing us so much accurate information. ***************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * ***************************************** ---- Start of Message 43521 (thread 18984) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-19 23:37:00 Subject: Re: More dating Lufkin At 9:45 AM -0500 5/8/98, Karl W. Sanger wrote: > Galoots, I certainly concur with Gary that, as he said, "Dating >Lufkin catalogs is certainly one pain in the tush." I don't know the date >of the #12 Lufkin catalog either or why it should contain a tool that >appears several decades older than tools found in a #7 Lufkin catalog. But >I would like to suggest two thoughts. and very belatedly... here is a No. 8 with a 1957 price list. And another No. 12. The looks of the 12 appears to be 1930's or so, but that is a pure guess based on cover design... and after the 1920's you just can't tell. I'll peruse it some more to see if I can find a clue. Someday I guess I'll have to put together a list of known and assumed dates for these little buggers. Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ++++ End of thread 18984 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18985 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42874 (thread 18985) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-07 23:31:00 Subject: HOW TO: Make a scrub plane!-) Here is a brief discourse we had on rec.norm about just this subject, ( Some whacko named "Spokeshave" out trolling ;-) ======================================================== Okay, someone gave me this old Bailey trasitional plane... mouth was already pretty wide from previous jointing of the sole and after I jointed it flat it was really gaping mouth.. so I figgure what the heck and took the blade out and crested it heavily on the grinder and plopped it back in... This sucker is _almost_ as nice as my #40 scrub plane.... So if you're inclined to USE a used up trasitional rather than roast weenies over it, give ti a try. ======================================================== LATER: On this subject I got an E-Mail concering converting a POS benchplane to scrub With the authors persmission I'm gonna share my thoughts here...... >My situation: I have a #4 made by "Hudson Forge" that is a pretty cheap >The question: Is it reasonable to convert this into a scrub plane? SURE! I often wished for a wider scrub plane.. this would be great, IMO >plan to get LN's #40 1/2 someday, but not yet ($$), I know the feeling ;-( >but is it worth the time and effort? sure.. propbly 5 minutes grinding the mouth, then 10 minures cresting the blade and honing it...yeah sure.. for that matter the mouth _may_ open up wide enough so you dont even _need_ to grind it open further. Try jut strongly cresting the blade, drop it in and see how it works w/ the frog set all open >That plus I'm thinking that scrub planes have >bevel-up blades, not bevel down nope they are down. traditioanlly they have no cap iron, whice is why folks thing they are bezel up. >...And the follow-up question would be: How wide should I open the mouth >up to, if I do it? wide enough not to "choke" ======================================================== AND TO FINISH IT UP: Forewarded from a Party who wishes to remain anonymous. (Fearing the wrath of the Neander_Dudes?-) We'll just call him Dave Cast..... ;-) Spent Fri night trying to grind an 1/8" camber (~4" Rad.) into the blade freehand (using my belt sander + 80 grit belt). After some futile effort, and before I wasted the whole blade, I gave up and started to make a jig. I based mine on the simple grinding jig that Lee pictures in the Sharpening book - A simple angled platform with a pivot point that the blade rotates about side-to-side. It's hard to describe (impossible in ASCII-art) but fairly simple. If you have Lee's book, you should be able to look it up in the plane sharpening chapter to see what I'm talking about. I located the jig wrt the belt platen by attaching it to the belt sandah using the two tapped holes meant for a fence attachment (dang metric threads!). I just attache da board to the side of the snadah with those holes and then cantilevered a platform over the blet from that board. It was a little tricky to get aligned properly at the right angle (30 deg) but it turned out OK. I drilled a hole through a small piece of 1/4" Ply and through the part of the jig hanging over the belt. I then stuck a bolt up through the hole in the jig and glued it in place. This is the pivot. I attached the blade to the 1/4" ply with some double-stick (hmmm, now where'd I get that stuff? :-) I would turn on the sandah and slip the plywood down over the pivot. Bring it in contact with the belt and rotate side-to-side (taking off to cool with water and check every now and then). I had to re-set the blade a couple of times to get the middle to reach the belt again after a bit of grinding, but it worked quite nicely. It's easy to burn the corners (greatest material removal at that point) but I took it easy on them as I got closer to the final shape so they should be fine now. I think I ground out all the burned parts OK. Then I Scary-sharpened the back to a mirror finish and retouched the edge of the bevel by removing the belt from the sander and glueing down a piece of 2000 grit on the platen. I shimmed between the blade and the jig to get a microbevel and went at it. That was a little trickier, but again it worked OK. This jig worked perfectly! A nice consistent rounded bevel. I couldn't get my fingers to do it freehand, but this sure did it. Enough blathering - I fired-up the plane to see how it worked (can you actually fire-up a hand tool?) and the results were.....inconclusive. I had the frog set full open, but I think the mouth needs to be ground open more. I'll give it a shot with the die-grinder, maybe tonight. Keep in mind I've never used a scrub plane before (or many other planes for that matter) so I'm kinda guessing here, but it seems like it needs a more open mouth. I wasn't sure how rank of a cut to take, so I ended up with about half the rounded part of the blade sticking out (< 1/8", prob more like 1/16"). ...That and I was experimenting on the only thing I had handy - a 2x4 :-o (I don't even have any rough-sawn lumber to try it out on - gotta get some to start practicing.) That's all for now. I'll keep you posted. This is fun! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The latest update: I opened up the front of the mouth on the POS #4 I've been converting into a scrub plane as it was choking as is after I re-ground the blade with a strong camber. I opened it up about 1/16-3/32" with a small Silicon Carbide grinding burr on my air-powered die grinder. It seems to be working a lot better now. The only problem I have with it now is that the shavings tend to get caught under the heel of my hand (the one on the front knob) as they start to pile up. I have to shake it out to clear this jam-up every few strokes or it chokes. I'm guessing that if the front knob were farther forward an inch or so this wouldn't be an issue, but as it is, the heel of your front hand ends up right over the throat and causes jam-ups. Still a lot cheaper than buying an actual #40-1/2 from Tom LN! ...So I think I can live with the shortcomings for now. ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 18985 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18986 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42878 (thread 18986) ---- From: David Sutton Date: 1998-05-07 23:56:00 Subject: Re: Make a scrub plane?/gloat >Hmm. My #40, found at the FM on Saturday, only cost $10. >I suppose this must be my first gloat. > >First thing I've honed freehand too. > I was thinking about finding something I could "convert" for use as a scrub a while back when I got all distracted by fourtieth birthday revelry. Wasn't even thinking about a scrub right then, but I was talking to some friends in Southern Indiana about my new obsess. . .er . . .enthusiasm for handplanes. A contractor friend said I ought to come by his house and check out this neat old wooden thing he had. So I did. It's a european style plane with a horn on the front end and the name ARNS on it is several places. I popped the iron out to check it, and it had a nice camber (and a nice deep hollow grind). I told him it was a scrub plane, and that I'd been looking for one, and would he consider selling it (as it had served him primarily as window dressing up to that point). "Take it, man, it's your birthday!" Whoa. Anyway, I sharpened it free-hand too. It's not that tough. It cuts reeel nice, too. David Sutton ++++ End of thread 18986 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18987 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42879 (thread 18987) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-07 17:19:00 Subject: Chisel Gloat GGs, I haven't gloated lately and I don't even read them all but this one can't go by without comment. I have most of the tools I need since I am a user, not a collector, and actually proved it to myself. I would like a nice set of chisels but didn't expect to see any on FMM so I didn't go online till 4:30 pm MST on Monday. Anyway I looked at the MofA's list and found a couple listings for chisels. What the heck I say it doesn't hurt to ask. So I ask. Patrick says yup, I still have 'em. I say no you don't, the Witherbys come to me. Well, they arrived today. Eleven (count 'em 11) shiny Witherby chisels. OK so the 2" chisel has a handle whose end is beat to sh*t but the blade is great. The chisels go from 1/8" to 1" by 1/8s and 1" to 2" by 1/4s. Oh yeah, as Patrick says the 1" chisel is still in the paint can somewhere. Once I get these guys honed I outta be able to become a master cabinetmaker and if not I will just have to try harder. Anyway me and my killer chisels have a lot of work to do. I am looking forward to it. Ernie I'm not a collector, really. I'm just a user without enough time. (used by permission) ++++ End of thread 18987 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18988 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42882 (thread 18988) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-08 01:02:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy psssttt.... http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/1824/infill.htm ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ---- Start of Message 42885 (thread 18988) ---- From: Cylkowski&Broman Date: 1998-05-08 00:31:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy > psssttt.... > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/1824/infill.htm Good Gawd.....who created this thing? Is it real? Or some computer fantasy of Gunterman.... Dave Broman ---- Start of Message 42887 (thread 18988) ---- From: J. Gunterman john@g... Date: 1998-05-08 01:39:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy Cute Mr. Gunterman, very cute. Now the facts Mr. Gunterman, stick to the facts. Joe Friday Kootenay Lake Undercover Squad ---------- > From: J. Gunterman john@g... > To: oldtools@l... > Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy > Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 18:02 > > psssttt.... > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/1824/infill.htm > > ~ > John > http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM > http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42892 (thread 18988) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-08 02:34:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy >Cute Mr. Gunterman, very cute. > >Now the facts Mr. Gunterman, stick to the facts. Fact are so boring.... Overall: 9-1/2" x 2-1/4" Blade: 7" x 2 x 3/16" Chip Break : 5" x 2" x 3/16" Useable Blade Lenght: 1-1/2" Bedding Angle: 45 Deg (may be offered in 50 Deg.) Throat opening: 0"-5/8" (adjustable) Sproing Factor: H.O.F.N.A.R. Cost: ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ---- Start of Message 42903 (thread 18988) ---- From: HeyzaD Date: 1998-05-08 07:41:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy Okay John, The real question is - is that thing in your possesion and how well does it work??? Dennis ---- Start of Message 42940 (thread 18988) ---- From: Eric Breitenberger Date: 1998-05-08 08:31:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's next toy Mac Geek wrote: > psssttt.... > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/1824/infill.htm > I dunno, looks like a fake to me ... kinda like that retouched Mother's wax can a few months ago. C'mon, John, ya gotta stop playin with that Paint program. OK, stop teasin' us - WE WANT THE GORY DETAILS! Please? Oh please? -Eric (with a little spring fever, as the leaves are bustin' out all over Interior Alaska today. Yippee!) ++++ End of thread 18988 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18989 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42894 (thread 18989) ---- From: TomPrice Date: 1998-05-07 23:29:00 Subject: Old John - Saw Gloat Esteemed Galoots, I found Old John through a search of the Internet Yellowpages for saw sharpening businesses in my area. I called several and found that they were not familiar with or confident about sharpening handsaws. I was just about to give up when I called one more number and found Old John. Do you do handsaws, I wondered, and he said yes, yes been doing them for 40 years. My ears perked up at that and I got directions to his house. I called Steve Reynolds and told him I thought I might have found the real thing, someone local who knew a hawk from a handsaw. Next day I came to work with a pair of Disston #12's and a small Jackson backsaw for John to work over. Steve had scored a really nice cast-iron Goodell-Pratt miterbox with an 18" backsaw at the Dollar Store For Galoots ($25 - yeah I'm envious too) and the saw was what he decided to give Old John to sharpen as a test case. Of course, Steve being Steve he beat me down there and I found him talking to John in a little workshop out back of the house. Steve and I talked to John while goggling at the interior of his shop. Old John keeps his shop in one of those small barnlike utility buildings and the premises are crammed with saws and saw sharpening machinery. Old Foley saw filers, setters and a retoother or two line the narrow benches. Bundles of finished handsaws hang from the rafters and circular saw blades are stacked for sharpening. It turned out that John is 82, although he still works pretty much a full day. He doesn't look his age. He looked over our saws and we told him to keep the set to a minimum. He thought he might have to retooth the older of my two #12's and mentioned that he doesn't charge for retoothing if he is also going to sharpen the saw. He asked us if we were using them for finish work and we replied to the affirmative. John's SWMBO buzzed him for dinner and off we went. A couple of weeks went by. I was just up in the Poconos for a few days at a meeting and when I got home yesterday I checked my voicemail. One of the messages was from Steve Reynolds who reported in a tone of trembling anticipation that Old John had finished our saws and that he was headed off to get his. A few more messages on and I heard Old John's voice saying that he had my three saws done and I could pick them up any time. Lordy, the day went by in slow motion. I finally got back from my last meeting and called Old John to tell him that I was coming down to claim my Disston's. John met me out back and chuckled as he told me that the older #12 was some hard steel. He had retoothed it at 11 tpi, as per the blade stamp, and had put just a hint of set to it. The newer #12 and the Jackson backsaw were just sharpened and set. He charged me $10 apiece for the two handsaws and $5 for the little backsaw. John showed me his preferred saw setter, a Foley machine with a foot operated trip hammer that whacks the teeth on an anvil like the old hammer sets did. Quite the gizmo. I don't know how Steve's saw turned out but mine are great. I did stone one side of the older #12 to get it to track dead on the line and it cuts quite a smooth kerf for a handsaw. The Jackson backsaw was transformed from a $5 saw with a rust-free blade, but really screwed up teeth, into a nifty tool for cutoff work and such. Old John came through. I'm a happy Galoot. Now that I have a range of sharp saws (I've done several of my better saws myself), I'm going to put together a shooting board. I'm thinking that maybe I'll build a diatonic autoharp. I always did want one of those. **************************** Tom Price Will Work For Tools The Flea Market Tactical Primer is featured at The Galoot's Progress: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html ++++ End of thread 18989 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18990 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42895 (thread 18990) ---- From: eric coyle Date: 1998-05-08 04:28:00 Subject: much snippage about sucking gas pipes..... then paddy reminisces.... . Of course when I first started woodworking, I had to work in a shoebox in the middle of the road. Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU ******************************************************************** WOT!!! You had a shoebox!!!! Eric ++++ End of thread 18990 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18991 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42897 (thread 18991) ---- From: Andrew Barss Date: 1998-05-08 06:18:00 Subject: tool handles: what for??? In my coll... assortment of tools is one gee-whiz shiny tool handle, by Millers Falls, the kind with a mini vise on one end, and a large, hollow wooden handle on the other, with a screw top in't, containing various pointy little tools. I love this tool, and can't for the life of me figure how I, or any normal human with just two hands, is supposed to use the damn thing. I imagine I'm suppose to screw a little piece of wood into the little vise. Then I hold the thing in one hand, by the handle, and then hit at the clamped piece with a sharp piece of metal I've extracted from the hollow handle. Now I'm confused. So I put it back on the shelf, where it gleams at me in amusement. What are these things for? or are they just cutesy little useless jobbers? Enlighten me! (Doug, you never talked about these, so have at it). -- Andrew ++++ End of thread 18991 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18992 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42898 (thread 18992) ---- From: Domenico Statuto Date: 1998-05-08 06:35:00 Subject: Moldings and jointing planks. Hi to all in the list. I am an amateur harpsichord maker, and should like to know how to make moldings, and how to joint planks. Two very basic questions, I know, but I have no other source for learning (strangely enough, no books on the subject here in Italy). Best regards, Domenico Statuto ---- Start of Message 42911 (thread 18992) ---- From: Rodney Myrvaagnes Date: 1998-05-08 05:43:00 Subject: Re: Moldings and jointing planks. Domenico, I assume you are making an Italian harpsichord. Italian moldings, for just one instrument, can be made with a scratch stock. If you are planning a lot with the same molding profiles, you should make molding planes. A scratch stock can be made by cutting an inside corner in a block of hardwood. Then, saw a slit edge on in one leg of the "L". drill a hole for a clamping bolt that will grip a piece of sawblade or scraper steel in the slit. Now, for each molding profile, you must grind a blade edge to that profile. Clamp the blade in the slitted wooden stock in such a way that it shows in the inside corner just as far as you want it to cut. Clamp the piece you want the molding in down on the bench, with enough extra length so you don't need to hit th eclamps. Scrape with the scratch stock, leaning it forward at first and bringing it gradually upright as you get near completion. You are scraping the molding shape, and go whichever way the local grain dictates. In Italy, I hope you can get Mediterranean Cypress to make your harpsichord. The moldings will look stunning done this way. For edge jointing planks, look up "shooting board" in the archives. I am sure someone has dealt with this. On Fri, 8 May 1998 08:35:06 +0200, Domenico Statuto wrote: >Hi to all in the list. I am an amateur harpsichord maker, and should like to >know how to make moldings, and how to joint planks. Two very basic >questions, I know, but I have no other source for learning (strangely >enough, no books on the subject here in Italy). > >Best regards, >Domenico Statuto > >---------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 18992 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18993 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42899 (thread 18993) ---- From: Stephen Plume Date: 1998-05-08 08:03:00 Subject: Re: your mail TAK ME OFF THE GODDAM LIST SOMEONE PLEASE On Thu, 7 May 1998, eric coyle wrote: > > much snippage about sucking gas pipes..... > > then paddy reminisces.... > > . Of course when I first started woodworking, I had to work in a > shoebox in the middle of the road. > > Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU > > ******************************************************************** > > WOT!!! You had a shoebox!!!! > > Eric > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42951 (thread 18993) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-08 10:53:00 Subject: Re: your mail > TAK ME OFF THE GODDAM LIST SOMEONE PLEASE > > On Thu, 7 May 1998, eric coyle wrote: > > much snippage about sucking gas pipes..... > > > > then paddy reminisces.... > > . Of course when I first started woodworking, I had to work in a > > shoebox in the middle of the road. > > > > WOT!!! You had a shoebox!!!! > > > > Eric > > Youse guys had it easy. My town couldn't afford a road. I'd have worked on our dirt floor, but my family couldn't afford that either. Gene ---- Start of Message 44131 (thread 18993) ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 1998-05-31 19:56:00 Subject: Re: your mail Hi, Jeff Since I have a Lewin plane, I also have been interested in learning more about it. The best information I have found is in letters to the Editor of Woodworker for January 1984, pp. 58-59. The information there is that it was introduced about 1947 by Oxted Mill, Surrey, and was wholesaled by Buck and Hickman. Six fifteen refers to the price, which was 6 pounds 15 shillings. I have seen several of them sold, generally for less than the price of a Stanley 45. I think that I paid $85. for mine about ten years ago. It is a good user plane, more comfortable to handle than a 45. Although the range of cutters supplied with it is smaller than what was available for the Stanley, it does include all the usual plough and beading cutters. Trevor ++++ End of thread 18993 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18994 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42908 (thread 18994) ---- From: Brent Clukey Date: 1998-05-08 13:17:00 Subject: Do I need a Tenon Saw? Hey GG's- A quick question for the much more experienced than I. Do I really need a tenon saw? I have acquired a nice dovetail saw and, it seems to me that, except for the small bit of cross cutting across the shoulders of the tenon, the cuts are very similar. So, assuming that the tenons are short enough that I can cut them with the dovetail saw, do I need a tenon saw? If yes why? Does it have to do with the longer cut? Oh, and is there a preferred order for the cuts on a tenon? WARNING! Incredibly bad Ascii art follows!! a a b b ____ _ | | | | c ___| |___ c d _| |_ d | | | | Do I cut a then b then c then d? Is d done with a chisel? And, given the recent thread about splitting tenons, which of these are candidates for being split? a? b? Or a and b? (I do know enough to surmise that trying to split c or d would be a bad idea...) Thanks to all who answer for continuing the education of a neophyte Galoot. -Brent Clukey Mind you, I do *want* a tenon saw, I just have to know if I *need* one. If I don't *need* one, SWMBO says it can wait. ---- Start of Message 42931 (thread 18994) ---- From: Paul F Gillespie Date: 1998-05-08 15:31:00 Subject: Re: Do I need a Tenon Saw? Brent asks: a a b b ____ _ | | | | c ___| |___ c d _| |_ d | | | | Do I cut a then b then c then d? Is d done with a chisel? And, given the recent thread about splitting tenons, which of these are candidates for being split? a? b? Or a and b? (I do know enough to surmise that trying to split c or d would be a bad idea...) The way I do it is cut b followed by d, then a followed by c. Trim a and b cuts with a skew rabbet and c and d cuts with a shoulder plane. Don't know if it's right, but it works for me. The way I understood the "splitters" of the group, they would cut c and d and then split a and b. Mind you, I do *want* a tenon saw, I just have to know if I *need* one. If I don't *need* one, SWMBO says it can wait. Well, if that's the case, I'd say you need one. ;) Actually, either saw could do either job but there are trade-offs. A dovetail saw usually has a shorter, thinner blade with very little set and fine teeth (>15 tpi). For most dovetails you're not cutting through alot of wood, so the loss of speed due to the fine teeth and shorter length is more than made up for in the gain in accuracy. A tenon saw is usually longer and a bit thicker, has coarser teeth (10-14 tpi) with a little more set than a dovetail saw. This is to gain a little more speed as some tenon cheeks require alot of wood to be sawn. One other difference is the depth of cut. A tenon saw can usually saw up to 3 inches while you're average dovetail saw is about 1-1/2 inches. Having said all that, some people use a bow saw to do all these cuts. Some people use a hacksaw for these cuts. I use a 12 tpi tenon saw for most of my M&T work. For some larger M&T's I've even used an 8 pt rip saw. Do you need a tenon saw? Welll.... define need. Paul Gillespie - The Dovetailless Sawyer Philada, PA ---- Start of Message 42977 (thread 18994) ---- From: Cylkowski&Broman Date: 1998-05-08 23:16:00 Subject: Re: Do I need a Tenon Saw? > Mind you, I do *want* a tenon saw, I just have to know if I > *need* one. If I don't *need* one, SWMBO says it can wait. Oh Brent - you definitely ****need**** a tenon saw. Probably two or three with different tpi and sets for different jobs. Not a colle#@$!tion mind you (thats not practical). I'm really not sure how you could accomplish *any* kind of precision tenon work without them. In fact, you should probably buy one tonight.....immediately. Surely SWMBO can understand..... Dave Broman ++++ End of thread 18994 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18995 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42910 (thread 18995) ---- From: Louis Michaud Date: 1998-05-08 13:49:00 Subject: Invisible breadboards Bonjour Galoots! Problem: I'm making a Arts and Crafts type (no pretentions of it being A&C "style") dining table. Top is 35 in. by 66 in. with a 10 in. overhang at the ends. I'm concerned with warping of the unsupported ends and A&C did not use breadboards (by the way, what's the origine of this term?). I suppose the quality of the wood used at that time didn't justify or need breadboards. I could put a spline in across the ends and pin it with loose holes to allow movement. Fully housed it would not be the whole width of the table so as not to stick-out the sides. The ends of the spline could be tapered (in plan view) to be less apparent. Any comments on how this approach would work (or not...) ? Is there a well known method ? Thanks. Louis ---- Start of Message 42922 (thread 18995) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-08 15:00:00 Subject: Re: Invisible breadboards Louis Michaud wrote: > > Bonjour Galoots! > > Problem: I'm making a Arts and Crafts type (no pretentions > of it being A&C "style") dining table. Top is 35 in. by > 66 in. with a 10 in. overhang at the ends. I'm concerned > with warping of the unsupported ends and A&C did not use > breadboards (by the way, what's the origine of this term?). > I suppose the quality of the wood used at that time didn't > justify or need breadboards. I don't really know much about Arts & Crafts, but aren't they mostly made of quartersawn oak? True quartersawn wood doesn't need the support of breadboard ends - if cut true it really won't cup or twist with humidity changes. Just make sure you glue them up heart to heart and bark to bark so the joints will swell/shrink in tandem. > > I could put a spline in across the ends and pin it with loose > holes to allow movement. Fully housed it would not be the whole > width of the table so as not to stick-out the sides. The ends > of the spline could be tapered (in plan view) to be less apparent. > > Any comments on how this approach would work (or not...) ? > Is there a well known method ? > Thanks. > If I understand this correctly I don't think it would add much warp resistance. Both for looks and ease in construction I'd just spend extra time (or money if necessary) and pick out quartersawn wood and just "do it!" This is just MHO. YMMV of course. ---- Start of Message 42963 (thread 18995) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-08 21:50:00 Subject: Re: Invisible breadboards At 9:49 AM 5/8/98, Louis Michaud wrote: [about breadboard ends, including the buried query:] >breadboards (by the way, what's the origin of this term?). Since nobody seems to have bit, I find a way to overcome "Dawson's Lament": A traditional breadboard is a large but thin slab of unfinished wood, (say, 2 ft. square or so, 3/4 to 1" thick), placed on a work table or counter, sprinkled with flour, on which bread dough is kneaded and left to rise, kneaded again, etc., prior to baking. Old ones were made of a single plank, and a wide piece of plank that thin would tend to warp, and/or eventually crack. To stabilize the board, keep it flat, and strengthen it overall, some galoot invented the "end" in question - a strip of wood, sometimes of more durable stuff than the board itself, attached cross-grain to the ends of the big board, with a tongue and groove joint. You can still find breadboards, complete with ends, in some antique venues that specialize in rustic kitchen items. Tom Holloway ---- Start of Message 42969 (thread 18995) ---- From: buzzmk Date: 1998-05-08 22:18:00 Subject: Re: Invisible breadboards Louis Michaud wrote: > > Bonjour Galoots! > > Problem: I'm making a Arts and Crafts type (no pretentions > of it being A&C "style") dining table. Top is 35 in. by > 66 in. with a 10 in. overhang at the ends. I'm concerned > with warping of the unsupported ends and A&C did not use > breadboards > EDIT > Louis > >Grettings Galoots, My .02 worth. I believe the reason you don't breadboards on A&C tables & such is that the furniture was almost always made of quartersawn oak (at least the good stuff anyway). Quartersawn wood is much more stable & less prone to atmospheric changes. I have seen 90 plus year old Stickley table that are still very flat. Buzz Keever who has gotten confident enough to remove the tourniquet from the firstaid kit..... ---- Start of Message 42987 (thread 18995) ---- From: sbmarcus Date: 1998-05-09 04:34:00 Subject: Re: Invisible breadboards ---------- > From: Louis Michaud > Bonjour Galoots! > > Problem: I'm making a Arts and Crafts type (no pretentions > of it being A&C "style") dining table. Top is 35 in. by > 66 in. with a 10 in. overhang at the ends. I'm concerned > with warping of the unsupported ends and A&C did not use > breadboards (by the way, what's the origine of this term?). The term is fairly of recent vintage. Its an antique-trade usage derived from the practice of applying cleats across the endgrain of boards used for preparing dough, to prevent warpage. In fact applied cleats like these appear on all kinds of wide surfaces from the earliest times forward. In the case of breadboards, most of these made before the late 19th century were home-made affairs, with the cleat applied by nailing. Most of the breadboards one sees with T&G joints are manufactured items of later vintage. > I suppose the quality of the wood used at that time didn't > justify or need breadboards. Breadboards are not uncommon in Arts and Crafts furniture. Its aesthetic origin in the interest of John Ruskin and others in Medieval forms made breadboards an acceptable form of ornamentation as well as a reasonable solution to a real problem. The breadboard end is less common but not unknown in mission and Stickley furniture. > > I could put a spline in across the ends and pin it with loose > holes to allow movement. Fully housed it would not be the whole > width of the table so as not to stick-out the sides. The ends > of the spline could be tapered (in plan view) to be less apparent. > > Any comments on how this approach would work (or not...) ? > Is there a well known method ? This is a common solution, but, unfortunately, doesn't really work since the brute force of the boards if they choose to curl will easily overcome the resistance of the thinner spline. Bruce ---- Start of Message 43062 (thread 18995) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-11 18:32:00 Subject: Re:Invisible breadboards Louis wrote: "I could put a spline in across the ends and pin it with loose holes to allow movement. Fully housed it would not be the whole width of the table so as not to stick-out the sides. The ends of the spline could be tapered (in plan view) to be less apparent. Any comments on how this approach would work (or not...) ?" There was a nice article about breadboard ends on tabletops about three years ago in Fine Woodworking. The author discussed a number of ways of making them and a number of styles, both housed and visible. I built a kitchen table of red oak myself about then using a fully housed spline; the spline was 1" less on each end than the 30" table width. I secured the breadboard with a visible pin in a round hole at the center and a pair of pins in oval holes at the outboard end about 6" from the table edges; that is the end board is firmly fixed in the center and floats everwhere else. At the end of August each year, the anniversary of when I built the table, the top and ends are flush. By midwinter the top contracts about 1/8" at each side. Gives you something to ponder with the first cup of coffee in the morning. Remember that you'll also want to make provision for wood movement where you fasten the table top to the rails. Ed Balko Middletown, NJ ++++ End of thread 18995 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18996 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42914 (thread 18996) ---- From: Lawrence Russo Date: 1998-05-08 14:23:00 Subject: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing GG: First let me say that I really like Tim and he is a very pleasant and accommodating person. I just think that right now he may be in a little over his head and from what I've seen, he has not been able to maintain the quality levels that one would expect from a high end (high priced) tool. I got a set of three of his shoulder planes from him on his last tool release, and to summarize I would call them disappointing. First I did not appreciate him cashing my check, and then making me wait almost five months for delivery. Compare that to Patrick who was also slow in delivery but who didn't cash my check until he shipped. All of the planes had significant amounts of rust inside. I assume this was from machining coolant that was not fully cleaned off before the planes were assembled. It was a royal PIA to get the rust from the insides of these brand new planes cleaned out. All of the blades were ground crooked, not something that I should have to fix. One of the planes has a crooked mouth. It doesn't affect the plane's performance (it's a slight skew plane). But these aren't mass produced planes, so I wouldn't expect him to ship one with a clearly visible skewed mouth. I would also rate the fit & finish as being only poor/moderate. Not the caliber I expect from a high end tool. No comparison to the fit and finish on Patrick's tools. I do believe that Tim has the potential to produce really top notch stuff, but I also believe that right now he can't maintain the quality levels that he is striving for. I intend to step back and let him catch up a little before I order from him again. I wish him the best of luck, and I do believe that with some time he will get there. Sitting This One Out Larry ---- Start of Message 42917 (thread 18996) ---- From: John Letsche Date: 1998-05-08 15:39:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Lawrence Russo wrote: > > GG: > > First let me say that I really like Tim and he is a very pleasant and > accommodating person. I believe the charter of the group prohibits this sort of thing. If you have a problem with Tim, take it up with him privately. John. ---- Start of Message 42923 (thread 18996) ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 1998-05-08 15:06:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing [trashing?] Lawrence is certainly entitled to his analysis, especially since he bought three planes. John, would your reaction be different if Lawrence had compared Tim's work to Tom Lie-Nieslen, Independence Tool, or some other high-end manufacturer? I know it gets a little touchy when we're talking about the products of our "friends," but that shouldn't deter people from writing what they feel to be the truth. The one thing retailers need to hear is honest criticism, otherwise they'll just keep going on their merry way, leaving a pack of disgruntled, non-repeat customers in their wake. Anyone who would like to voice their honest opinion on anyone's new/old tool reproductions is more than welcome. Take me, for example. I have one of Supertool's ebony-infilled t-bevels, and I must say it smacks of the most outrageous conspicuous consumption and blatant yuppie bastard elitism. Guess what, I love it! It came in this rather effete gren felt sack, but coming from a guy who's too delicate to grind his bones on the non-existent knob of a #39, I've come to expect that sort of thing. I too wish all the neanderthal toolmakers the best of luck, God knows I buy as much of their stuff as I can possibly afford... sometimes more than I can afford. Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU/GPCoL -- Old tools and old fools: a dangerous combination http://www.concentric.net/~odeen/oldtools ---- Start of Message 42924 (thread 18996) ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 1998-05-08 15:12:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing John and Lawrence were discussing about quality reports: > I got a set of three of his shoulder planes from him on his last tool > release, and to summarize I would call them disappointing. > > I believe the charter of the group prohibits this sort of thing. If you > have a problem with Tim, take it up with him privately. > I appreciate having objective quality reports available and I didn't find this one offensive at all. Every manufacturer (tool or else) should be aware that consumers are observing their product quality and should not take it personally if the quality is not good (it is manufacturer's fault). Eddie ---------------------------------------- Adria Tools - High Quality Dovetail Saws http://www.woodworking.com/adria/ ---- Start of Message 42927 (thread 18996) ---- From: John Letsche Date: 1998-05-08 16:30:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Patrick Olguin wrote: > > The one thing retailers need to hear is honest criticism, otherwise > they'll just keep going on their merry way, leaving a pack of > disgruntled, non-repeat customers in their wake. > > This is certainly true. But... Does this mean if I get burned by a tool dealer, I can air the dirty laundry on the list? Hmmm... Maybe we should all post lists of tool dealers who misrepresent their offerings. It would certainly make for an entertaining and eye-opening week. Also, This was not a comparison of two similar tools. I don't believe Larry has a Kelly infill to look at. Kinda like "I bought a blurfl from foo two years ago. The new ones suck too. Even though I haven't seen it yet." John. ---- Start of Message 42932 (thread 18996) ---- From: Lawrence Russo Date: 1998-05-08 15:31:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing John Wrote: > > This was not a comparison of two similar tools. I don't believe Larry > has a Kelly infill to look at. Kinda like "I bought a blurfl from foo > two years ago. The new ones suck too. Even though I haven't seen it > yet." John you taking this way too personal. I never said anything bad about the Kelly infill. What I said was I would wait and see if he has gotten some of his quality problems resolved, before I think about buying one. I really don't think that is a assault on a person's reputation. Cool Down John Larry ---- Start of Message 42933 (thread 18996) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-08 15:41:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing John Letsche wrote: > > Lawrence Russo wrote: > > > > GG: > > > > First let me say that I really like Tim and he is a very pleasant and > > accommodating person. > > > > > I believe the charter of the group prohibits this sort of thing. If you > have a problem with Tim, take it up with him privately. > Charter!?! We got a Charter??!? B^) B^) B^) We do have a FAQ. It does say that hand tool reviews are acceptable fodder. And reviews that are critical of a particular product aren't usually jumped on. We've also had general "the quality of xxx tools overall isn't very good" threads several times. And these have allowed supporters of those brands to defend them, either overall or for specific examples. I wouldn't buy a modern Stanley bench plane on a bet, but the shoulder rabbets really aren't bad, and I expouse that belief here. So Larry says he thinks that the fit and finish of some tools he's got from KTW lately aren't as good as they should be. He uses a similar tool supplier (similar in that they're also making low production runs of specialized tools) as an example of what he thinks is better F&F. Would I use his EMail as a single example as to whether or not to purchase from either supplier? No more than I'd mail order from the first catalog I opened up and choose the first manufacturer listed that supplied a 1" chisel I wanted to buy. But it's input and feedback to the whole overall decision making process. I doubt if anyone else out there is like me: I have a limited budget, am pretty well supplied overall, but do have some items on my wish list. I make continual judgements as to how best to spend my tool budget, and for me I usually go for utility and "bang for the buck" over sproing factor every time. I might ooooh and awwww over the SW bevel gauge, but I'll get by with a modern Crown one. No one else is like that, right? B^) So I think all feedback on tools, especially the current new production ones (since they _are_ new and we don't have historical evidence as to how well they've performed over time), is very useful in making an educated decision as to where those dollars should go. If someone goes so far as to totally trash a maker or his/her products, then it's up to the List Mom's to decide when it becomes inappropriate. There, I'm gettin' off the soap box now 'cause I see the shaving horse is open, so I'm going to take my KTW #1 (very nice, IMHO) and make some shavings. ---- Start of Message 42934 (thread 18996) ---- From: jason fink - isd 3943 Date: 1998-05-08 15:48:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Greetings, I have been meaning to write a summary of my feelings for my last Tim Kelly Purchase for quite awhile, and Larry's letter is finally prompting me to do so. While I really hate to write anything disparaging about a Tool maker attempting to provide us with cool stuff, I have to agree completely with Larry's assessment... after waiting 5 months for my Shoulder & Chisel planes I was ready for some serious 'spriong' when I opened that box. Unfortunatly, I was immeadiatly disappointed with the fit and finish. I had to march straight for the SS paper to clean up small rusty spots all along the sole sides and bottom. Looks good now, but thats not a job I expect to perform until after I've spilt a frosty can of Schlitz on the darn thing. Although I didnt have the 'crooked mouth' problem as Larry did, there is a design element in both planes that drives me crazy. Now I'm not an expert, but I hate having the mouth adjustment screw on the Sole of the plane, rather that the toe. I belive a sole should be a 'smooth unbroken plane' (corregations aside) and having that screw down there seems in bad taste. Perhaps I'm being petty, but I still dont like it. The tiny chisel plane (and I mean tiny!) has holes extending through the sole as well. These are the result of the the threaded blade & knob holding screws. These look terrible, and I am going to fill them with something when I get a chance (plumbers solder perhaps?). Seems he could easily have stopped short of the bottom, and eliminated these unsighlty flaws. I'm sure Tim can do great work, but before placing any further orders, I am going to want assurances about the fit & finish of the product I'm going to get. If they dont fill my expectations... they will go back. -jas http://www.unm.edu/~cornflak lawrence.russo@p... writes: >First let me say that I really like Tim and he is a very pleasant and >accommodating person. I just think that right now he may be in a little >over his head and from what I've seen, he has not been able to maintain the >quality levels that one would expect from a high end (high priced) tool. snip >First I did not appreciate him cashing my check, and then making me wait >almost five months for delivery. snip >All of the planes had significant amounts of rust inside. snip >One of the planes has a crooked mouth. snip >I would also rate the fit & finish as being only poor/moderate. snip >I do believe that Tim has the potential to produce really top notch stuff, >but I also believe that right now he can't maintain the quality levels that >he is striving for. I intend to step back and let him catch up a little >before I order from him again. ---- Start of Message 42936 (thread 18996) ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 1998-05-08 15:59:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing John Letsche wrote: [snip] > This was not a comparison of two similar tools. I don't believe Larry > has a Kelly infill to look at. Kinda like "I bought a blurfl from foo > two years ago. The new ones suck too. Even though I haven't seen it > yet." Um, no. What Larry wrote was an extremely magnanimous and gentle review of some tools that were clearly below the standard (compared to output from IT, LN, SJBTC and so on, could be inferred) when compared to Patrick's Superior Works. I grepped for "suck" and couldn't find it in Larry's post. With all due respect, John, I think that is a very unfair characterization of Larry's original post. Now I know there are more than a few people who get tired of the shameless shilling for various retailers, but as long as the happy customers are being truthful, why can't the unhappy customers? I suppose if someone really wanted to air their problems with dealers, they could, but I hope they'd do it without unecessary rancor, and include pertinent facts like say: did the dealer offer a replacement, or a refund? You know, important stuff like that. I've had a few transactions get screwed-up; some were my fault, and some were the dealer's fault, and some were no one's fault. In each case, we were able to come to satisfactory terms, and since then have continued to do business. I don't see how any of that belongs on the list, except to perhaps praise a dealer for being so understanding, or mebbe warning folks about the potential problems with using postal money orders. If OTOH, the purpose is to somehow get back at someone, all I can is that when airing dirty laundry, *everyone's* wash ends up getting hung out on the line, and I'm not sure we want all those pairs of BVD's flapping in the wind. Just my thoughts... Paddy GM/ENB/FOYBEVU -- Old tools and old fools: a dangerous combination http://www.concentric.net/~odeen/oldtools ---- Start of Message 42939 (thread 18996) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-08 17:27:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Guys, I wasn't going to jump in but, oh well .... The thing about all this that really bugs me is that I feel that some people can be grossly inconsiderate of another individual by saying negative things about the person's ethics, workmanship, etc. in this virtual environment in which literally everyone in the world could be an audience. I don't consider such to be fair nor very considerate. I would hope that each of us would carefully think about the magnitude of exposure to our comments - basically, you are making your comments, right or wrong, to the whole world. I would also hope that each of us would be kind enough, as well as, man enough to discuss any negatives with the individual prior to doing an "objective review" thus extending the courtesy of affording to that individual the opportunity to explain, resolve, or rectify the alleged grievance. Otherwise, an "objective review" rapidly degrades into something rather self serving. Chris > > > Lawrence Russo wrote: quality of workmanship> > > John Letsche wrote: > > Patrick Olguin wrote: > > > > > The one thing retailers need to hear is honest criticism, otherwise > > they'll just keep going on their merry way, leaving a pack of > > disgruntled, non-repeat customers in their wake. > > > This is certainly true. But... ---- Start of Message 42967 (thread 18996) ---- From: Ron Harper Date: 1998-05-08 22:14:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing ---------- > From: Chris Dunn a065117@U... > To: letschej@n... > Cc: Odeen@c...; oldtools@l... > Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing > Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 12:27 PM > > Guys, > > I wasn't going to jump in but, oh well .... Me too. If we have the right to comment on Craftsman tools, or Stanley tools, or Lie- Nielson tools,,,it would appear logical that we can also comment on Superior Tools, Adria tools, Independence Tools, and Kelly tools. For they have entered the arena and should have every expectation of being judged on their performance. Mr. Hack's book received unfavorable comment here Mr. Kirby has been pilloried here. I think comments that were made by Jason and Larry were even handed and not at all nasty. They were conveying disappointment. Lots of shilling goes on here. I've done some myself ( for Mr Gunterman and Mr DeGrau ) but there is another side to the coin. If we are gonna do tool reviews, they can't all be shills , cause all merchandise ain't wonderful. As long as they are not mean spirited, I think negative comments have as much a place here as the shills. Ron > To subscribe, signoff, to digest: listserv@l... > Other housekeeping: oldtools-owner@l... > Archive: http://mailmunch.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/archives/OLDTOOLS > When quoting, edit severely. > ---- Start of Message 42968 (thread 18996) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-08 13:19:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Chris wasn't going to jump in, but: > The thing about all this that really bugs me is that I > feel that some people can be grossly inconsiderate of > another individual by saying negative things about the > person's ethics, workmanship, etc. in this virtual > environment in which literally everyone in the world > could be an audience. I don't consider such to be fair > nor very considerate. Yeah, it might be more considerate to a small manufacturer to try to talk to them first. But I once had a business card that said "Quality Assurance Manager", and after a buncha years at it, I still welcomed input from customers, happy or not. Without it, our design group wouldn't have known what they should work on next. It's a _vital_ piece of business. Surely, word can spread faster now than it did by word-of-mouth. That's a _ benefit_ to the manufacturer who doesn't have to wait to find that sales have slumped in the Midwest for some reason. Gene ---- Start of Message 42979 (thread 18996) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-09 00:22:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Chris Dunn writes: >The thing about all this that really bugs me is that I >feel that some people can be grossly inconsiderate of >another individual by saying negative things about the >person's ethics, workmanship, etc. in this virtual >environment in which literally everyone in the world >could be an audience. I don't consider such to be fair >nor very considerate. I would hope that each of us would >carefully think about the magnitude of exposure to our >comments - basically, you are making your comments, right >or wrong, to the whole world. >I would also hope that each of us would be kind enough, >as well as, man enough to discuss any negatives with the >individual prior to doing an "objective review" .... I'm feeling just a little exposed by all this. What I can say is that I know Larry supports makers of new "old" tools in the way that counts most. With his wallet. Not many people own any of the molders I've made, but Larry does and I appreciate that a lot. I assume he's pleased with them, but I don't know for sure. He paid for them promptly and said they looked nice or some- thing similar. When we first discussed them he told me that there would be a delay before he had much chance to use them because he was changing shop spaces, if I remember right. I guessed that it might be a while before he could actually say much about how they worked for him. Feed back, to me, is important. I (or even my partner Bill who I hope will soon be on the list) may even feel or get a little defensive about criticism. It's not that it's not important, useful or helpful; just that it touches all the concerns that Chris mentions. I can say that, if I had been the subject of Larry's review, I'd appreciate the way he said what he did. He voiced what appear to be legitimate concerns that Tim may want to address. Now I've never seen one of Tim's planes and can't really say much about them, only that Tim did successfully address earlier things about his planes which his customers thought would improve them. Tim and his tools are better for that. Larry's post didn't appear to be malicious to me. If anything, I'd say he's paid the price of admission to concerned customer status and that's the group any business expecting to be around tomorrow needs to listen to. I don't think you'd see a Superior Tool Works, Independence Tool Works or even Lie-Nielson Tool Works if it wasn't for people like Larry Russo who are willing to take a chance with some of their hard-earned cash. Larry Williams hoping there are more out there with Larry's attitude about new "old" tools ---- Start of Message 42985 (thread 18996) ---- From: sbmarcus Date: 1998-05-09 03:23:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing As someone else who is in the business of making new old tools, I have to support what Larry Williams has written. I've had a very good reception for my saws. But I haven't been entirely happy with the blade-holding mechanism for the combination jeweler's/coping saw, and continue to make improvements. Most of my customers have not shared my disquiet, but a couple of them have, and I find their input valuable. They have, amazingly, even suggested that they would attempt to work on a better solution themselves to the problem, to share with me. Not only do I encourage their criticism, but I am enormously pleased by the way in which they have expressed themselves, and by their generous attitude. Which is not to say that I expect all criticism to be so easy to swallow. But I have discovered, after eons of trying to please customers in my furniture-making and restoration business, that 95% of the time the criticism is, at least in part, justified, even if, sometimes, the over-the-top mode of delivery is disproportionate to the complaint. Some few people, of the more paranoid persuasion, just have to assume that your failure, whatever it might be, is a direct attack on them, and have to respond in kind. The great majority, like Larry Russo, offer their comments in measured, even tones, and seem more than willing to see things worked out, which is to everybody's advantage. Bruce ---- Start of Message 42989 (thread 18996) ---- From: BRUCE KANTELIS Date: 1998-05-09 13:33:00 Subject: RE: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing Hello All! A few thoughts: 1. If you manufacture a product for re-sale, be prepared for comments and critisims. 2. All of the parties mentioned (tool makers) are interested in hearin both good and bad and seek to improve thier products. 3. This is a process, no one makes the prototype that is perfect in every way, these designs and processes evolve as they always have. 4. Every maker has a bad day 5. Dont like it, return it and get something else, you have choice. 6. Dont gripe too loud until you have tried to make one yourself. Sure, spend an hour or two in the shop and whip out a Marcus saw, piece of cake right???? Regards, Bruce Kantelis ---- Start of Message 43055 (thread 18996) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-11 16:44:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing sbmarcus wrote: > . Most of my customers have not shared my disquiet, but a couple > of them have, and I find their input valuable. They have, > amazingly, even suggested that they would attempt to work on a > better solution themselves to the problem, to share with me. Not > only do I encourage their criticism, but I am enormously pleased > by the way in which they have expressed themselves, and by their > generous attitude. That is all well and good, I have nothing against criticism. If I were in your position or Tim's, etc., I'd be more than receptive to criticism/suggestions to improve my product. However, I don't recall seeing any public criticism of your saws. It's apparent that those that did offer comment did so to you personally and privately. They showed courtesy and respect for you and your endeavor. They had the courage to pursue a direct discussion with you to express their concerns. I view this a truly constructive. They chose not to share their thoughts with the entire world and run the risk of causing potential customers to think that your product was not up to snuff. Instead, they established a constructive dialog with you and chose to help you improve. Keep in mind - one blindside to the little guy could be fatal, the same to a St*nley or Record is no big deal. This was the point of my post - respect for an individual and recognizing ALL the potential ramifications of one's actions. Chris ++++ End of thread 18996 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18997 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42916 (thread 18997) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-08 14:35:00 Subject: And the gods shone on me again This must be my week SMBOTFM {She who must buy old tools for me} and SWMBOM {she Who Must Be obeyed's Mother} came through with old tools Jennifer had been in Houston for 10 days and brought back treasure, she brought back a reallt nice old screwdriver from somewhere between Austin and Houston on 290/I10. After looking it over I nitice PHILLIPS-LIC. 1 2046837 PAT A 2046840 MADE IN U.S.A No 3 on the shaft and later spotted _____________ _| |_ |_ STANLEY _| |_____________| on the Ferrule ?sp. It has a nice clean warm yello colored handle with some of the original varnish/finnish, and the steel parts have a nice even grey /black patina. The she pulls out the late B-D gift from my Mother in law !!! a Georgeous rosewood & brass Mortice Gague!!!! you can just barely amke out X. MORSE & Co LONDON whooo yaaaa! Aaron! ============================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18997 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18998 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42918 (thread 18998) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-08 14:41:00 Subject: OH BTW texas galoots BTW Texas Galoots - you have been drive-by plundered by my wife and MIL :) insert evil grins :) also my wife said that the store she got the screwdriver in had a bunch of wooden planes! - somewhere between Austin and Houston on 290/I10 :) Aaron I. -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 18998 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 18999 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42919 (thread 18999) ---- From: Lawrence Russo Date: 1998-05-08 14:46:00 Subject: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing > Lawrence Russo wrote: > > > > GG: > > > > First let me say that I really like Tim and he is a very pleasant and > > accommodating person. > > > > > I believe the charter of the group prohibits this sort of thing. If you > have a problem with Tim, take it up with him privately. John: I do not consider this to be "Tim trashing" this was strictly a report on the quality of the tools received. Tim is a very pleasant and nice person, however he needs to clean up his "quality" act a little. That's what this was all about. Are you suggesting that we eliminate "All negative" comments about the tools we have received. Not very Objective. Larry ++++ End of thread 18999 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19000 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42921 (thread 19000) ---- From: Mike Russ Date: 1998-05-08 15:08:00 Subject: Combo Test Last month I made a home for a Sargeant combo plane. I dutifully sharpening the blades and then made a fabric roll to keep the sharp blades safe. I inserting a beading blade and began looking for a piece of pine for a test and stopped. I just use pine for shelves and stuff. Furniture is made from white, red and live oak. I picked up a piece of live oak and started. Even broke out into a sweat over the 3 ft board. Where the grain cooperated, the bead is acceptable. Where the grain reversed, well the board is undoubtedly too long and would need to be cut to length. I must not be a collector if I used it once. ++++ End of thread 19000 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19001 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42925 (thread 19001) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-08 15:16:00 Subject: Re: Do I need a Tenon Saw? - taak responds with art Helo I just couldn'r resist! - It being Friday and me not wanting to be here! line up the numbers at the edge for perfet viewing! %^) THe answer is {id youhave nice straight grained wood then you should be able to split out on the lines a-b a-c These are all vertical, with the grain RIP cuts b-d d-c you should also be able to use your Dovetail saw on the above lines, if your saw blade is deep enough or if your tennon cheeks are short enough The cuts along the shoulders being horizontal against the grain crosscuts e-f e-g f-h h-g you ultimatly should use a tenon saw which is set crosscut? -1 __________ 0 | 1 | _________ 2 e ________| | |____ g 3 | a| | c | 4 | | | 5 | b|_________|d 6 | ________________________ h 7 | f| | 8 | | ^ ^g d | 9 | | | |r i ^ | 0 | | | |a r | | 1 | | | |i e | | 2 | | | |n c | | 3 t i o n DID I GET IT RIGHT? Brent Clukey wrote: > > Hey GG's- > > A quick question for the much more experienced than I. Do I > really need a tenon saw? I have acquired a nice dovetail saw > and, it seems to me that, except for the small bit of cross cutting > across the shoulders of the tenon, the cuts are very similar. So, > assuming that the tenons are short enough that I can cut them > with the dovetail saw, do I need a tenon saw? If yes why? > Does it have to do with the longer cut? > > Oh, and is there a preferred order for the cuts on a tenon? > > WARNING! Incredibly bad Ascii art follows!! > > a a b b > ____ _ > | | | | > c ___| |___ c d _| |_ d > | | | | > > Do I cut a then b then c then d? Is d done with a chisel? > And, given the recent thread about splitting tenons, which of > these are candidates for being split? a? b? Or a and b? (I do > know enough to surmise that trying to split c or d would be a bad > idea...) > > Thanks to all who answer for continuing the education of a > neophyte Galoot. > > -Brent Clukey > Mind you, I do *want* a tenon saw, I just have to know if I > *need* one. If I don't *need* one, SWMBO says it can wait. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42929 (thread 19001) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-08 15:27:00 Subject: Re: Do I need a Tenon Saw? - taak responds with art And now we know why Aaron reigns as TAAK...The Ascii Art King Tom ++++ End of thread 19001 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19002 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42926 (thread 19002) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-08 15:16:00 Subject: DE10? mini-gloat Picked up a killer brace this a.m. for ta-da (pause) $0.25 The only marking I can find on it is DE10...but the design screams Fray. Is this a Defiance? Or? This is a beautifully made brace....nickle plating is paper thin to gone, but o/w unpitted and working nicely. TIA Tom ---- Start of Message 42937 (thread 19002) ---- From: Chris Dunn Date: 1998-05-08 16:39:00 Subject: Re: DE10? mini-gloat Tom, My guess would be Diamond Edge made for Shapleigh Hardware. Perhaps the 10 refers to the sweep? Chris Tom Johnson wrote: > > Picked up a killer brace this a.m. for ta-da (pause) $0.25 > The only marking I can find on it is DE10...but the design screams Fray. > Is this a Defiance? Or? > This is a beautifully made brace....nickle plating is paper thin to gone, but > o/w unpitted and working nicely. ++++ End of thread 19002 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19003 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42928 (thread 19003) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-08 15:27:00 Subject: #79 question In my ongoing redesign of what tools I keep and what I sell off, I've been asking myself why I would ever use a #79 side rabbet when I now have (Tx to MofA) a #99 to go with my #98. It seems to me that the design of the #79 dictates that one blade is cutting and one blade dragging whenever you use it. How can that not detract from the quality of the edge that is not being used? It seems to me that an edge that is actually cutting is going to stay sharper that one that is just dragging. Perhaps not a significant issue since most of the time I find myself dragging my bench planes back over the wood for the next stroke as well, but...... still, is there a good reason to have BOTH a #79 AND #98/99? Tx Tom ---- Start of Message 42930 (thread 19003) ---- From: Robert Brazile Date: 1998-05-08 15:36:00 Subject: Re: #79 question >In my ongoing redesign of what tools I keep and what I sell off, I've been >asking myself why I would ever use a #79 side rabbet when I now have (Tx to >MofA) a #99 to go with my #98. It seems to me that the design of the #79 >dictates that one blade is cutting and one blade dragging whenever >you use it. It's easy enough to retract the blade not in use (I always do). The #98/#99 do have a nice knob on them; the #79 is a little trickier to grab, I think. >still, is there a good reason to have BOTH a #79 AND #98/99? Well, not for me, but that's never stopped me before... Robert ---- Start of Message 42954 (thread 19003) ---- From: Paul Houtz Date: 1998-05-08 20:05:00 Subject: Re: #79 Question I have a #79 and I have had a chance to play with a #98 and #99. If I had my choice I would have all three. The reason is the fence on the #79 is quite handy. Also, I like it because it is a little longer, so gives a little better support in situations that are not well supported. If I had to choose one or the other, I would take the #98 and #99 combination, because it is easier to have two planes sitting there perfectly adjusted than always having to back off on or the other of the blades. However, a set of #98 and #99 are hard to find, and if you buy from a dealer they are like $250 for a decent pair. And I would still want the #79. So, what do I have?? I have a real original american made #79. It has wing nuts for holding the knives in place, and they make it pretty easy to adjust. Sometimes I don't bother backing off the trailing knife and it seems to work ok. I am not sure how critical that is. It is a "handy little goober" as Mr. Leach says... -gph ---- Start of Message 43187 (thread 19003) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-14 03:03:00 Subject: Re: #79 question Tom Johnson wants to know whether he needs to keep his #79 side rabbet, now that he's acquired a #98/99 pair. Well, I've got a #79 and a 98 (only), so I'm probably not the guy to make the comparison, but I will agree that sometimes the short length of the 98 makes it harder to push hard, with good control. OTOH, the low profile of the #79 has led me to smash fingers (yee-ouch!) when fine-tuning dados. So I vote as a typical galoot - keep all three. BTW, I had never heard of anyone retracting the "other" iron on a #79 until recently (on the list), and frankly it strikes me as a little, err, ridiculous. I mean, assuming you're trimming a groove or dado, there are two sides, and there are two ends (unless it's stopped.) You really want to trim _in_ from each end (to avoid splintering), so what's a galoot to do? Stop, advance the 2nd iron, retract the first, then continue trimming? When I trim it's an iterative process: test fit / trim / test fit / trim, etc. and each trim may require cutting from both directions. So now I'm supposed to mess with both irons (painstakingly set to trim a pinch) twice each time I go through the fitting process? . Balderdash! No practicing galoot could have ever afforded (or tolerated) that routine. Personally, I've never been convinced that moving a iron backwards over wood makes much of a difference to the quality of the edge. Most woods are not exactly abrasive, so we talking about the occasional "lap" of the back with something as smooth as a piece of paper. However, even if it made a minute difference in edge quality, I STILL wouldn't muck with the irons in this fashion (unless you dudes are setting your side rabbets REALLY rank.) I'd put this one up there much higher on the urban legend scale than the (mistaken) advice to "loosen the lever cap before adjusting the depth of an iron on a bench plane" Hoping I didn't offend anyone too much, Don Berry ---- Start of Message 43189 (thread 19003) ---- From: FrankSronce Date: 1998-05-14 03:31:00 Subject: Re: #79 question Don Berry wrote: > Tom Johnson wants to know whether he needs to keep his #79 side rabbet, now > that he's acquired a #98/99 pair. > I vote as a typical galoot - keep all three. And now, that's not enough. Take a look at the bronze 98/99set which L-N is now putting out. The picture on the L-N web site will have you drooling all over your keyboard. ($185 introductory price; $10 extra for rosewood knobs) Surely Tom will need a set of these too. (Now about their new infill!!) -- no affiliation Frank (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ---- Start of Message 43196 (thread 19003) ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 1998-05-14 10:02:00 Subject: Re: #79 question And Tom wil also want a pair of wooden side-rabbets. They feel nicer in the hand, and the greater length makes them go straighter. Trevor ---- Start of Message 43201 (thread 19003) ---- From: Robert Brazile Date: 1998-05-14 12:18:00 Subject: Re: #79 question [ Don inveighs against retracting the off-blade on a #79 ] >Hoping I didn't offend anyone too much, Not offended at all, but I can't say that I agree that it's "Balderdash". I tend to use my #79 to cleanup or widen sections of dados that ended up too tight for one reason or another -- I rarely have cause to work an entire dado side for any reason -- so do not typically need to change direction frequently. Also, I find it trivial to set or retract the blade, a matter of a second or two. Rubbing the trailing blade may or may not hurt much, but it certainly can't help and getting it out of the way is easy. Do you not lift your smoothers on the return stroke at all? Robert ---- Start of Message 43213 (thread 19003) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-14 15:57:00 Subject: RE: #79 question Don Berry opined: > BTW, I had never heard of anyone retracting the "other" iron on a #79 > until recently (on the list), and frankly it strikes me as a little, err, > ridiculous. < Lots of good points about efficiency snipped. > Hmm. Pretty good issue for a Galoot discussion. I know lots of us always say, "Don't drag your plane backwards over the work. You'll dull the iron." There are usually references to books and videos to back up this claim, resulting in a certain amount of smugness. Well, does it or doesn't it? I can imagine that a #79 might be a special case because the average bench plane might be dealing with knots and otherwise unfriendly surfaces which could affect the iron if dragged backwards on the return stroke, whereas the side rabbet is pretty much just trimming a small, well behaved surface. Has anyone experimented with edge life with and without the backwards drag? BTW, I kind of always took this dogma for granted, and thought that it resulted in an excellent argument for a #98/99 pair. Plus, they're cute. - Bill ---- Start of Message 43217 (thread 19003) ---- From: Paul Houtz Date: 1998-05-14 16:31:00 Subject: Re: #79 question Don Berry writes: >I mean, assuming you're trimming a groove or dado, there are two sides, and >there are two ends (unless it's stopped.) You really want to trim _in_ >from each end (to avoid splintering), so what's a galoot to do? Stop, >advance the 2nd iron, retract the first, then continue trimming? What you say about splintering is only true for dados, not grooves. For grooves you shouldn't need to trim in from an end. One of the cool things to do with a #79 is to make a groove into a sliding dovetail. When I have done this, I back off the trailing knife. The reason is that when you start at one end, the sole is at one angle to the side of the groove, then when the trailing knife comes in contace with the side, the angle changes slightly. Does it make a difference in the result? I don't know but the change in angle as the trailing knife comes over the end of the groove bothered me so I backed it off and do one side at a time. For most of the dados (and lap joints for that matter) that I have trimmed, the trailing knife didn't really come into play, the stock wasn't thick enough. I still want a #98/99 combo. I had a nice pair of wooden side rabbets. Very nice. I didn't use them that much so I sold them. Now I regret it. ---- Start of Message 43218 (thread 19003) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-14 16:41:00 Subject: Re: #79 question Robert Brazile properly injects a dose of moderation into my mini-rant about retracting the off-blade on a #79... >Not offended at all, but I can't say that I agree that it's >"Balderdash". Fair enough. It's just that I've been trying to clean up my language, what with the kids and all. ;) >I tend to use my #79 to cleanup or widen sections of dados that ended >up too tight for one reason or another -- I rarely have cause to work >an entire dado side for any reason -- so do not typically need to >change direction frequently. I guess I really like the convenience of using the #79 coming or going (pulling/pushing) without stopping. I usually keep it set fine, and would typically trim a dado with a push stroke to within a short distance of the end, lift it beyond the end and then pull it back to cut the end without splintering. I am rarely removing much stuff, just fine tuning the fit, but I often find myself "cleaning" the entire length of a dado, on both sides. Plus, I find the side rabbet works much like a #93 rabbet (pseudo-shoulder plane) in that there seem to be times when it doesn't cut (skips/slides). I'm not sure why, but it's probably a bit of grunge in the corner lifting the toe, or maybe a microscopic step at the corner. In any case, it's a minor inconvenience usually solved easily by coming at it from the other direction. With a shoulder plane this means using the other corner of the blade - which is why a non-square edge on the iron is such a PITA (if one corner is set fine, the other would be too rank or won't cut.) We're talking thou's here, not major league out-of-square. If my #79 skips on the push, I just pull it back which usually does the trick. Finally, I guess my most recent _major_ workout with a #79 was when I built my hanging tool chest. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, it was a Quick 'N' Dirty effort, so the dado's were cut by my apprentice, Mr. U. N. Isaw. Since he's just an apprentice, the dado's were a tad tight and I was concerned about Chaos and Frustration during glue-up (lots of pieces had to go together at once.) So, each and every dado and groove was trimmed <1/64". Piece o' cake for Mr. 79, but I can't imagine how much longer it would have taken if I had to adjust the blades during the process (I did stop to hone them, as even solid-core hardwood laminate dulls the irons pretty fast.) >Also, I find it trivial to set or retract the blade, a matter of a >second >or two. Rubbing the trailing blade may or may not hurt much, but it >certainly can't help and getting it out of the way is easy. I agree, it's no big deal to do, but it is inconvenient for the way I work, and it just never struck me as necessary. Maybe I end up honing my irons more often? >Do you not lift your smoothers on the return stroke at all? Well, yes, and jointers, too. But, I think that's just a function of the stroke and rhythm I find comfortable - sort of an arc on the return. I lift the entire plane off the board - never found dragging the toe to be of much use. I've never been that concerned about back-lapping the iron on the return, but since I don't do it, I don't know if it really degrades the edge. Regards, Don ---- Start of Message 43220 (thread 19003) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-14 16:56:00 Subject: Re: #79 question Paul comments on my needing to reverse the direction of travel when trimming: >What you say about splintering is only true for dados, not grooves. For >grooves you shouldn't need to trim in from an end. O.K., you got me. ;) But!... I've been known to use solid-core hardwood ply from time to time, and I've still got to be careful with the grooves so as not to splinter the veneer. >One of the cool things to do with a #79 is to make a groove into a >sliding >dovetail. When I have done this, I back off the trailing knife. The >reason is that when you start at one end, the sole is at one angle to >the side of the groove, then when the trailing knife comes in contace >with the side, the angle changes slightly. Good point, I hadn't thought of that. O.K., from now on I promise to retract the blade whenever I do sliding DT's. >I still want a #98/99 combo. I had a nice pair of wooden side >rabbets. Very nice. I didn't use them that much so I sold them. >Now I regret it. I've never used wooden side rabbets, and I'm curious how they compare. Does the iron really cut right down to the inside corner? Are they as fragile as they look? And, how much does a usable pair typically go for at auction? ++++ End of thread 19003 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19004 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42935 (thread 19004) ---- From: Domenico Statuto Date: 1998-05-08 15:48:00 Subject: R: Moldings and jointing planks. Yes, I am building an italian harpsichord, and yes, I've got mediterranean cypress which seems very good to me. I'll try with the scratch stock. I guess it should be simple to grind a blade? Any blade shop would do it for me? Thank you very much for your help. Sincerely, Domenico -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Rodney Myrvaagnes rodneym@i... A: dstatuto@m... dstatuto@m...; oldtools@l... oldtools@l... Data: venerdì 8 maggio 1998 15.55 Oggetto: Re: Moldings and jointing planks. >Domenico, > >I assume you are making an Italian harpsichord. Italian >moldings, for just one instrument, can be made with a >scratch stock. If you are planning a lot with the same >molding profiles, you should make molding planes. > >A scratch stock can be made by cutting an inside corner in >a block of hardwood. Then, saw a slit edge on in one leg of >the "L". drill a hole for a clamping bolt that will grip a >piece of sawblade or scraper steel in the slit. > >Now, for each molding profile, you must grind a blade edge >to that profile. > >Clamp the blade in the slitted wooden stock in such a way >that it shows in the inside corner just as far as you want >it to cut. > >Clamp the piece you want the molding in down on the bench, >with enough extra length so you don't need to hit th >eclamps. > >Scrape with the scratch stock, leaning it forward at first >and bringing it gradually upright as you get near >completion. You are scraping the molding shape, and go >whichever way the local grain dictates. > >In Italy, I hope you can get Mediterranean Cypress to make >your harpsichord. The moldings will look stunning done this >way. > >For edge jointing planks, look up "shooting board" in the >archives. I am sure someone has dealt with this. > >On Fri, 8 May 1998 08:35:06 +0200, Domenico Statuto wrote: > >>Hi to all in the list. I am an amateur harpsichord maker, and should like to >>know how to make moldings, and how to joint planks. Two very basic >>questions, I know, but I have no other source for learning (strangely >>enough, no books on the subject here in Italy). >> >>Best regards, >>Domenico Statuto >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42942 (thread 19004) ---- From: Rodney Myrvaagnes Date: 1998-05-08 09:54:00 Subject: Re: R: Moldings and jointing planks. On Fri, 8 May 1998 17:59:03 +0200, Domenico Statuto wrote: >Yes, I am building an italian harpsichord, and yes, I've got mediterranean >cypress which seems very good to me. I'll try with the scratch stock. I >guess it should be simple to grind a blade? >me? >Thank you very much for your help. >Sincerely, >Domenico > >-----Messaggio originale----- >Da: Rodney Myrvaagnes rodneym@i... >A: dstatuto@m... dstatuto@m...; >oldtools@l... oldtools@l... >Data: venerd 8 maggio 1998 15.55 >Oggetto: Re: Moldings and jointing planks. > >>Domenico, >> >>I assume you are making an Italian harpsichord. Italian >>moldings, for just one instrument, can be made with a >>scratch stock. If you are planning a lot with the same >>molding profiles, you should make molding planes. >> >>A scratch stock can be made by cutting an inside corner in >>a block of hardwood. Then, saw a slit edge on in one leg of >>the "L". drill a hole for a clamping bolt that will grip a >>piece of sawblade or scraper steel in the slit. >> >>Now, for each molding profile, you must grind a blade edge >>to that profile. >> >>Clamp the blade in the slitted wooden stock in such a way >>that it shows in the inside corner just as far as you want >>it to cut. >> >>Clamp the piece you want the molding in down on the bench, >>with enough extra length so you don't need to hit th >>eclamps. >> >>Scrape with the scratch stock, leaning it forward at first >>and bringing it gradually upright as you get near >>completion. You are scraping the molding shape, and go >>whichever way the local grain dictates. >> >>In Italy, I hope you can get Mediterranean Cypress to make >>your harpsichord. The moldings will look stunning done this >>way. >> >>For edge jointing planks, look up "shooting board" in the >>archives. I am sure someone has dealt with this. >> >>On Fri, 8 May 1998 08:35:06 +0200, Domenico Statuto wrote: >> >>>Hi to all in the list. I am an amateur harpsichord maker, and should like >to >>>know how to make moldings, and how to joint planks. Two very basic >>>questions, I know, but I have no other source for learning (strangely >>>enough, no books on the subject here in Italy). >>> >>>Best regards, >>>Domenico Statuto >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42943 (thread 19004) ---- From: Rodney Myrvaagnes Date: 1998-05-08 09:54:00 Subject: Re: R: Moldings and jointing planks. On Fri, 8 May 1998 17:59:03 +0200, Domenico Statuto wrote: I >guess it should be simple to grind a blade? Any blade shop would do it for >me? You can file the blade to shape yourself and keep trying it until the profile is just what you want. A piece of a broken b*ndsaw or hacksaw blade is fine. Then just hone both faces flat on a sharpening stone and leave the burr unturned. If you don't have a broken saw, use a hand scraper blade. Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a rodneym@i... 20 years without a car, TV, or website ++++ End of thread 19004 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19005 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42938 (thread 19005) ---- From: Scott E. Post Date: 1998-05-08 11:50:00 Subject: Boilermaker marking gage Today a co-worker (who's not into old tools) showed me a marking gage that was in a box lot he picked up at an auction last weekend. It doesn't have a maker's mark, only an 1872 patent date. It has scale markings down one side. The business end is split for the scribe and a screw near the end of the beam holds the slit together. It has a "mustache" on the head. The setscrew is brass and there's a folded piece of sheet metal between the head and the beam that seems to act as a spring to add friction. Any idea how I can figure out the maker? There's probably an interesting history behind this gage. The beam is stamped: Dept of Pract Mech Purdue University And the number "18" is stamped in about half a dozen places. I suspect that the "18" was a bench number in a classroom. -- Scott Post spost@k... ---- Start of Message 42941 (thread 19005) ---- From: Joe Palazzolo Date: 1998-05-08 17:49:00 Subject: Re: Boilermaker marking gage Even though I am not a Hoosier, I do live amongst them, and many of my fellow engineers here at work are actual graduates of Perdue University. One of the guys here actually had an old volume on the history of Perdue, and it had a section on the Dept. of Practical Mechanix (sic) titled: "Amos Yoder: Inventor of the Type 18 Marking Gage." It seems that Amos was quite famous for his inventions of various "Mekanical Vonders," and was often invited to lecture at Universities around the U.S. Below is an excerpt from the book: "And so it came to pass that Amos was invited to lecture at Harvard University. While there, Amos went in search of victuals, and asked a Harvard upperclassman: `Whar kin I gets some grub at?' The Harvard student replied: `Sir, here at Harvard, we never end our sentences with a preposition.' To which Amos stated: "Okay, where kin I gets some grub at, a**hole?'" OT content: None, but it's Friday. Joe Palazzolo Fort Wayne, IN ---- Start of Message 42955 (thread 19005) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-08 11:36:00 Subject: Re: Boilermaker marking gage Joe P. enlightened us a bit with insights into Purdue. (And admitted no oldtools content). :^) But seriously, Purdue is the employer of the world famous researcher into the fastest way of getting a bbq ready for action. Record holder George Goble (sp?) developed a system pouring a bucket of liquid oxygen onto the smouldering charcoal. Let us not mock Purdue. Blacksmiths and wanabes among us could benefit from his research. ^^^^^^^^^^ Gene (oldtools content included as noted above) ---- Start of Message 42958 (thread 19005) ---- From: Jim Cook Date: 1998-05-08 17:00:00 Subject: Re: Boilermaker marking gage Gene says: >Joe P. enlightened us a bit with insights into Purdue. (And admitted >no oldtools content). :^) > >But seriously, Purdue is the employer of the world famous researcher >into the fastest way of getting a bbq ready for action. Record >holder George Goble (sp?) developed a system pouring a bucket of > liquid oxygen onto the smouldering charcoal. Let us not mock Purdue. Gene, that's Perdue...with an "e", as in Frank...uh...we are talking about barbeque...aren't we...you know...chickens? >Blacksmiths and wanabes among us could benefit from his research. Jim - really out in left field, but obviously thinking about dinner, and it's Friday, and....ok...really, I have no excuse ---- Start of Message 42971 (thread 19005) ---- From: Carl Muhlhausen Date: 1998-05-09 11:00:00 Subject: Re: Boilermaker marking gage Joe Palazzolo wrote: > > > > Even though I am not a Hoosier, I do live amongst them, and many of my > fellow engineers here at work are actual graduates of Perdue University. > One of the guys here actually had an old volume on the history of Perdue, > and it had a section on the Dept. of Practical Mechanix (sic) titled: > "Amos Yoder: Inventor of the Type 18 Marking Gage." It seems that Amos > was quite famous for his inventions of various "Mekanical Vonders," and was > often invited to lecture at Universities around the U.S. Below is an > excerpt from the book: > > "And so it came to pass that Amos was invited to lecture at Harvard > University. While there, Amos went in search of victuals, and asked a > Harvard upperclassman: `Whar kin I gets some grub at?' The Harvard student > replied: `Sir, here at Harvard, we never end our sentences with a > preposition.' To which Amos stated: "Okay, where kin I gets some grub at, > a**hole?'" > Ah yes, and the grub he ended up with was chicken no doubt. Carl > OT content: None, but it's Friday. > > Joe Palazzolo > Fort Wayne, IN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 42991 (thread 19005) ---- From: Brendler Date: 1998-05-09 14:48:00 Subject: Re: Boilermaker marking gage Scott Post asks: >Today a co-worker (who's not into old tools) showed me a marking gage that >was in a box lot he picked up at an auction last weekend. It doesn't have >a maker's mark, only an 1872 patent date. It has scale markings down one >side. The business end is split for the scribe and a screw near the end >of the beam holds the slit together. It has a "mustache" on the head. The >setscrew is brass and there's a folded piece of sheet metal between the head >and the beam that seems to act as a spring to add friction. Any idea how >I can figure out the maker? Well, allow me to depart from all of the whimsical explanations and add a bit of hard fact here (sorry)... ;-) The moustache is a dead giveaway-- it's a Stanley. The 1872 patent date is another-- the 10/22/1872 patent is for (among other things) the little brass shoe between the arm and screw. It looks like someone lost the original shoe, and replaced it with a piece of brass-- this is a common occurrence, since the head-retaining screw feature was not added until the last part of the 19th century. So, the answer is-- it's a common-as-dirt Stanley #65 (unless it's rosewood in which case it's a #66). Make a super user, but not especially valuable. ralph ++++ End of thread 19005 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19006 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42945 (thread 19006) ---- From: Jeff Steele Date: 1998-05-08 18:34:00 Subject: SJBTC casting questions One for the metalheads : I got my St. James Bay Tool Co. catalog not too long ago. There's some really nice stuff there, including fodder for lots of fun projects. I'm tempted by the latter, specifically the infill shoulder plane casting. One thing (among many) that isn't clear from the catalog : almost every casting is offered in either "rough" or "machined" form, the latter costing about twice as much. When galoots talk of smoothing the casting with files, drilling out the mouth, etc., I assume this is the rough casting. Has anybody out there purchased (or seen firsthand) a machined casting ? Are these essentially "finished", meaning I can just make the infill, or is there still more metalwork to do ? Also, for the shoulder plane one can either purchase a blade or a blade blank. For some of the other planes, making a blade from a blank would involve drilling and filing to make a slot, but I think the shoulder plane blade (which is held by a wedge) doesn't need a slot. So is it just a matter of lapping it flat, grinding a bevel and hardening ? Thanks, Jeff (( For the curious, the prices (NOTE : these are from memory !) are : rough casting : $ 65 machined casting : $130 ? blade $ 30 blade blank $ 10 This is for a REAL shoulder plane : 8" long by 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 wide. )) ---- Start of Message 42974 (thread 19006) ---- From: Phil Hopkins Date: 1998-05-08 23:20:00 Subject: Re: SJBTC casting questions Jeff muses: >One thing (among many) that isn't clear from the catalog : almost >every casting is offered in either "rough" or "machined" form, the >latter costing about twice as much. >firsthand) a machined casting ? Are these essentially "finished", >meaning I can just make the infill, or is there still more metalwork >to do ? > >Also, for the shoulder plane one can either purchase a blade or a >blade blank. For some of the other planes, making a blade from a >blank would involve drilling and filing to make a slot, but I think >the shoulder plane blade (which is held by a wedge) doesn't need a >slot. So is it just a matter of lapping it flat, grinding a bevel and >hardening ? I haven't seen a machined shoulder plane casting, but I've talked with Bob about them, and I can tell you that they are machined to width, the sole is flat, the sides are square to the sole, and the mouth is *almost* cut through, leaving a little metal for you to remove and size the mouth to your preference. I just ordered a rough bullnose casting from Bob, and I'll let you know how that goes if you like, but I'm not expecting much trouble. But the machined casting should only require filing the mouth and stuffing. The blade needs a little more than you mention, as it needs to be 't' shaped. But that's not hard to do, either with a hacksaw or with files. The 't' shape is so that the blade can be full width but the shank still fits in the throat. The sides are beveled as well for ease of insertion, but none of this will be much trouble. I recently made a blade for Rob's little chisel plane which required drilling and filing for a slot. I even decided to enlarge one end after finishing the slot, so drilling was out, but I did it with a round file and sandpaper on a dowel, and it came out just fine. I didn't have a drill press, just did it by hand with my b*tt*ry powered drill and had no troubles. That's my one experience with steel stock so far, but it suggests that there's not too much trouble in manufacturing blades from stock. BTW, Bob's out of shoulder plane castings right now (which is why I'm getting the bullnose) but should have some more in a week or so. Phil Who thinks he likes making tools nearly as much as he likes using them. This is fun. ---- Start of Message 43337 (thread 19006) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-15 16:53:00 Subject: Re: SJBTC casting questions ** Reply to note from steele@c... Fri, 8 May 1998 14:34:44 -0400 (EDT) One thing (among many) that isn't clear from the catalog : almost every casting is offered in either "rough" or "machined" form, the latter costing about twice as much. When galoots talk of smoothing the casting with files, drilling out the mouth, etc., I assume this is the rough casting. Has anybody out there purchased (or seen firsthand) a machined casting ? Are these essentially "finished", meaning I can just make the infill, or is there still more metalwork to do ? I spoke to Bob Howard last night and actually remembered the questions. Machined castings are completely finished ready to have the wood fitted. There are still holes to be drilled. These are the holes for the pins that lock the infills in place and the holes in the plane body for the lever (screw) cap pivot pin. The hole is drilled in the cap. The shoulder plane doesn't have the cap so it won't need the pivot pin hole. Also, for the shoulder plane one can either purchase a blade or a blade blank. For some of the other planes, making a blade from a blank would involve drilling and filing to make a slot, but I think the shoulder plane blade (which is held by a wedge) doesn't need a slot. So is it just a matter of lapping it flat, grinding a bevel and hardening ? Blades are completely ready to go but do need to be honed. Blade blanks are basically raw stock. Ernie I'm not a collector, really. I'm just a user without enough time. (used by permission) ---- Start of Message 43356 (thread 19006) ---- From: Andrew Barss Date: 1998-05-16 20:21:00 Subject: Re: SJBTC casting questions On Fri, 15 May 1998 ernfisch@p... wrote: Has anybody out there purchased (or seen firsthand) a [St. James Bay Tool Co.] machined casting ? Are these essentially "finished", meaning I can just make the infill, or is there still more metalwork to do ? I spoke to Bob Howard last night and actually remembered the questions. Machined castings are completely finished ready to have the wood fitted. There are still holes to be drilled. These are the holes for the pins that lock the infills in place and the holes in the plane body for the lever (screw) cap pivot pin. The hole is drilled in the cap. The shoulder plane doesn't have the cap so it won't need the pivot pin hole. To add a bit to Ernie's comments, I looked at a few of the finished castings yesterday. The amount of metalworking in each case is well within the typical non-metalworker's capabilities (thankfully, since I am one). The specific steps vary from plane to plane, but in general a finished casting comes milled out inside, to receive the infill, with the mouth cut, and the majority of the castings roughness removed from the outside (you'll still likely want to do some final polishing, if I remember right). The item I looked at most closely was the mitre plane casting, which needs (this is the Spiers-type, with a steel sole) to be drilled and tapped through the sole to attach the metal plate. This is the only steel-soled plane he has, so for the rest, it's mostly finish work to make it look nice. -- Andrew ++++ End of thread 19006 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19007 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42946 (thread 19007) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-08 14:56:00 Subject: RE: Tim Kelly's latest toy Folks: Larry's initial post, and Jason's follow up, really got me to sit and and listen, as I currently have an order in with Tim. I have a coupla thoughts on this subject before I shamble back into the shadows: 1. I didn't read either of those posts as attacks on Tim, but as reviews of consumers' responses to products, which I think is essential and enlightening. 2. Several people mentioned that feedback to the manufacturer is important, and I agree. My question is: Did you (Larry or Jason) share your feelings with Tim? And if so, what was Tim's response? 3. I, too, wasn't real happy about parting with money several months before receiving any goods. When I told Tim that, he was quite willing to take 10% down and the rest when he cut metal. 4. I think cost works in here as a factor. Tim's shoulder's are almost half as much as similar ones from Bob Howard at SJB, and Tim's are dovetailed, which Bob's are not. I think there's a trade off between perfection of fit and finish and affordability. Patrick's stuff sounds like it is really top of the line fit and finish; it is also kinda pricey. Mind you, I haven't seen my Kelly planes yet, nor have I fondled Patrick's stuff, so I'm really talking outta my a** here. I guess my point is, you get what you pay for most of the time (Walt's #1 and Jeff's #9 excepted). I feel I'm beginning to ramble here, so I better shut up. I guess bottom line is, I really value the input of the folks on this porch, and the amalgamated reviews of tools, both old and new-old, helps guide my precious tool dollars. Let's not lose that, eh? Take it slow, Lorn (who's looking forward to the 073 showdown between LN and STW. . .) ---- Start of Message 42947 (thread 19007) ---- From: Tom Johnson Date: 1998-05-08 19:47:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's latest toy Greetings all: (long) My spin on this is: This is the kind of issue that requires a certain amount of trust as regards these posts (i.e., consumer reviews) The postER is trusting the reader to listen with a charitable ear and to not interpret criticism / negative remarks as being antagonistic or sarcastic / hostile etc. The READER of these reviews must trust that the poster IS INDEED giving a product review and not a public flogging. Sometimes, when you write as badly as I do, what is INTENDED as a review gets INTERPRETED as a slam. I just don't think the porch is inhabited by the kind of galoots who swing to hurt. Martin Luther had some good advice for us all: When speaking about the 8th Commandment he wrote: WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? "It means that we are to defend our neighbor, speak well of them, and interpret chariably all that they say and do." I think that's good advice (course I WOULD being a Lutheran pastor and all that) One other absolute that has been mentioned a few times already; If you haven't goe to the source of your disappointment before going public, keep it to yourself. It takes courage to call someone and to express disappointment and to seek just recourse/amends. It takes no courage to fire up the PC and shoot a verbal dart into Cyberspace. I don't even remember who started this thread OR whether or not Tim was contacted first so I want to be clear here that I'm talking PRINCIPLE, not particulars. So; my spin? If you have a complaint / disappointment with a galootish purchase that might be of help/interest to the porch, talk to the manufacturer first, THEN review the product on the porch. In this instance, everyone whose posting I've read who has had any dealings with Tim has found him to be receptive to feedback and willing to discount/ refund/ barter to make things right. That becomes part of the review. For me, that is wonderfully important information. I find out what kind of a person the owner of a firm is...and that helps me to take a risk and buy (or not to buy). Me? I bought Tim's MF#! knockoff...had a few conversations with Tim on the phone... he sent me some handle screws so that I could make custom handles to fit (for little or nothing). I appreciated his forthrightness and love the shave. Tom ++++ End of thread 19007 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19008 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42948 (thread 19008) ---- From: Paul Coppinger Date: 1998-05-08 19:47:00 Subject: Stanley Level I recently acquired a 24", steel, 3 covered vail, Stanley level with 3 markings: 1. "Stanley" above center vial 2. "Made in USA" below center vail 3. "36" stamped on center vial cover. The bottom does not have a grove nor is the level copper colored. The level is not like any #36 photos or drawings in any of my books or catalogs. Between the top and bottom surfaces are nearly rectanglar open spaces like below (normal ASCII apology): |----------------------------- 24" --------------- |------------------------------------------------- | || | Stanley | | Open || Open | ------------------ | | Space || Space | ------------------ | Etc | || | Made in USA | |------------------------------------------------- |----------- 12" ---------------| The black japanning is like-new and the machined surfaces are not rusty. Is this the heavy ribbed version from 1947-1949? Is it a more modern version from the 1960's? Thanks for any help. Best regards, Paul Coppinger cop@t... ++++ End of thread 19008 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19009 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42950 (thread 19009) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-08 19:55:00 Subject: Marking Gague ID hello GG's merry Friday I hvae a marking gague rosewood and brass that is markes ? MORSE & Co LONDON does anybody have any info about MORSE in LONDON age value, etc.. thanks! p.s. I got my first issue of TFTJ TThe Fine Tool Journal yesterday so I am making headway into getting more reference materials on OLd Tools TIA Aaron -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 19009 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19010 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42952 (thread 19010) ---- From: Lee Sudlow Date: 1998-05-08 19:48:00 Subject: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw Ahh. gentle galoots It's Friday, and I feel another true story coming on.... When I was a little tyke, my parents would load us into one of those early 60's roadcrusher station wagons and haul us down to my Mom's parent's farm. While the fieldwork would ensue, my sisters and I would be stuck fending for ourselves in the farmyard. Over the years, I progressed from "go amuse yourselves while we work" to "get to work with that blurfl already..." In the "orchard" near the house (and conveniently on the path to the outhouse) was an unusual contraption that took me years to figure out. The ancient (rusty even 30 yrs ago) piece of hardware was made out of a steel sliding table with a fence running across the table. Behind the fence was mounted a large shaft, also running sideways, and a really big nut assembly on one end. By twisting what I now know as grease cups, I could get some lube into the bearings of the mandrel and could turn the shaft by hand. The mandrel was fairly large and built solidly. It consisted of a really large shaft (now be nice, I haven't fooled with this thing since I was a teenager years ago) with a 2 in. diam. shaft. The length of the shaft was approx. 3 ft. long. On the far end of the shaft was a large (8 in) flat pulley, the kind used on belt-drive equipment. In the barn sat a roll of the belt material that had been used for running tractor-powered equipment. Also in the barn was a 70hp tractor. In all my recklessness and youthful enthusiasm - I asked "what is that?" of my Dad. He explained that (1) this is a saw for farmers, (2) Grandpa quit using it because other farmers got their personal limbs caught in the 2-3ft diam. blades while crosscutting old tree limbs, and (3) keep away from that d*mn thing!!@!! I guess the cussing-out worked. Outside of giving the old mandrel an occasional twist, I never did mess with it. Years later, when taking a breather from walking the soybean field and pulling weeds (man-o-man-o-man - you got to love those summer family jobs!), I spotted the blades for that mother lurking in an out- building. They were indeed about 2 ft. in diameter, and still Verrrrryyy pointy. The point of this little story is whether the old tractor-powered table saw is worth saving from the scrap heap. Obviously, this table would never be used for cutting wood. But, the conversation in the shop would be priceless - showing off that 2ft. blade with its Veerrryyyy pointy teeth. Anyway - cheers Lee Sudlow (it is good to be back.) ---- Start of Message 42962 (thread 19010) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-08 21:50:00 Subject: Re: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw At 2:48 PM 5/8/98, Lee Sudlow wrote: [huge snip of story about visiting grampa's farm] >I asked "what is that?" >of my Dad. He explained that (1) this is a saw for farmers, (2) Grandpa >quit using it because other farmers got their personal limbs caught in >the 2-3ft diam. blades while crosscutting old tree limbs, and (3) keep >away from that d*mn thing!!@!! Upon reading this, I looked at the middle finger of my right hand, and flinched. There on the first knuckle are five scars, neatly spaced about 3/16" apart, and Lee's childhood memory brought a scene back to my mind's eye: In the fall of 19 hunnert and 62 I was using a BUZZ SAW like the one Lee described, powered from the drive pulley of a John Deer "B" (Poppin' Johny) to cut firewood. It was an annual ritual to cut up the limbs and scraps that had accumulated out behind the shed in advance of the winter, for the pot bellied stove in the living room. The routine is to pull the cradle (what Lee calls the "table") back away from the huge blade, push the stock from right to left for the length you want to cut off, push the wood against the "fence" and then keep pushing toward the blade until the latter engages the wood. You then pull back, push to the right, and push in again. I got the rhythm of my hands pushing the wood sideways just a little out of synch with the rhythm of pushing the cradle back and forth, and got a little too close to the blade. It caught my leather glove and I jerked back. Pulled the mangled glove off and saw that the skin of my knuckle looked like a miniature stack of balogna, with 5 slices to match the teeth of that big blade - but just the skin. Table saws are bad, but buzz saws are potentially much worse. Tom Holloway, who was *real* lucky that day. ---- Start of Message 42970 (thread 19010) ---- From: Alan Sadler Date: 1998-05-08 22:53:00 Subject: Re: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw But imagine that saw blade, with a little red paint on 5 teeth. It would be a great safety-story for the grandkids. ---- Start of Message 42981 (thread 19010) ---- From: Newbold Date: 1998-05-09 01:25:00 Subject: Re: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw At 03:49 PM 5/8/98 EDT, Lee Sudlow wrote: >It's Friday, and I feel another true story coming on.... Snipping a bit... >In the "orchard" near the house (and conveniently on the path to the >outhouse) was an unusual contraption that took me years to figure out. .... >of my Dad. He explained that (1) this is a saw for farmers, (2) Grandpa >quit using it because other farmers got their personal limbs caught in >the 2-3ft diam. blades while crosscutting old tree limbs, and (3) keep >away from that d*mn thing!!@!! I guess the cussing-out worked. Outside >of giving the old mandrel an occasional twist, I never did mess with it. Boy did you miss a good time! My grandfather used to use one of those to cut firewood. His was powered by a one-cylinder make-break engine and driven by a wide leather belt. He would cut trees for future firewood and his horses would haul them out of the woods to behind the wood shed and would only fire up the saw when he had about 10 cords of logs ready to cut to stove lengths. He'd stack a few logs on the table - his machine's table was a V-shaped hopper that would pivot on a lower axle and tilt the hopper end and projeecting logs into the blade. Push, ZING, THUMP, THUMP, THUMP, as the cut-to-length pieces fell to the ground. Pull back, slide logs sideways, and push again. My Grandfather and father would cut the full 10 cords in a single day. They had to stop periodically to clear away enough cuttings to have space for more pieces to fall clear. Being only about 6 years old, I never helped, but I did watch. My grandmother and mother would not let me near that machine. They knew it could not tell differences between hardwood and people flesh. Lots of noise, no blade guards, no belt guards, flying sawdust, rolling logs, falling log chunks, miscellaneous flying bits of wood, and the occasional kickback just to keep you on your toes. A veritable OSHA nightmare in action. Typical farm work. ;-) Ahhhh, thanks for the memory jog. Unfortunately, the old saw is long gone, but not the memories. :-) :-) :-) >The point of this little story is whether the old tractor-powered table >saw is worth saving from the scrap heap. Obviously, this table would >never be used for cutting wood. But, the conversation in the shop would >be priceless - showing off that 2ft. blade with its Veerrryyyy pointy >teeth. That would be quite a show piece with the blade mounted. Even more fun when in action. Actually, there are a number of folks around that do acquire such things. Hancock Shaker Village each year at Wood Day (June, this year) has several old farm or wood cutting machines set up and running for demos. Check with any such historical working or farm museums or farm near you to see if they might be interested. Charlie Newbold Who after 45+ years, still remembers falling down between the bed and the inside of the rear wheel of a moving, fully loaded, horse-drawn hay wagon. ---- Start of Message 42988 (thread 19010) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-09 12:01:00 Subject: Re: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw At 9:25 PM -0400 5/8/98, Newbold wrote: >>The point of this little story is whether the old tractor-powered table >>saw is worth saving from the scrap heap. O > Actually, there are a number of folks around that do acquire >such things. quite right! > Hancock Shaker Village each year at Wood Day (June, this year) that is Canterbury that has wioiod day, and yeah they went and changed the dates on me..... every year it has been May... so I make sure to keep that weekend oopen and schedule our family trip to DisneyLand for last week of july.. wouldnt you figure they switchthe dates on me!! I'm thinking f trying to get a later flight out so I can at least get in a morning of galooting at the Vilage (btw, obvioulsy, Iwon't be demonstrating this year@ wood-day) >Who after 45+ years, still remembers falling down between the bed and the >inside of the rear wheel of a moving, fully loaded, horse-drawn hay wagon. Yikes! bechya won't be doing THAT again ;-) ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ---- Start of Message 43004 (thread 19010) ---- From: Newbold Date: 1998-05-10 04:01:00 Subject: Re: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw At 11:27 PM 5/8/98 EDT, I wrote: > >That would be quite a show piece with the blade mounted. Even more fun when >in action. Actually, there are a number of folks around that do acquire >such things. Hancock Shaker Village each year at Wood Day (June, this year) >has several old farm or wood cutting machines set up and running for demos. Actually Wood Day will happen June 27 and 28 at Canterbury Shaker Village, in Canterbury, NH. It will be two days of wood working demos, old farm machinery demos, antique sales, music, and of course the Shaker village folks will be doing tours. The NH Guild of Woodworkers folks will be doing woodworking demos as well as the Shaker village regulars. Fun for all woodworkers, Galoots and SWMBOs. The Canterbury web site is at http://www.shakers.org/ Last year they had a coopering and timber framing demos and a whole day of cold and rain. Hopefully this year will be warmer and drier. Charlie Newbold ++++ End of thread 19010 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19011 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42957 (thread 19011) ---- From: Thom Trail Date: 1998-05-08 20:53:00 Subject: Highland Hardware 'tent sale' Brief version, went to Highland Hardware tent sale, bought nothing, sold some TAs, watched Frank Klaus. Long version: I've been wanting to tell this story for a week but, just took on more responsibility at work so.... First, not a gloat but a grin, sold a POS craftsman cast iron springloaded blade tensioner scroll saw (you know the one, every high school shop had one or two) and TA DA! my r*d*al *rm s*w! Made lots of points with SWMBO, especially after last MWTCA. The tent outside Highland Hardware was filled with screaming apprentices except for a center of calm assurance right in the center, more about that later. If there is one thing that would demote Hotlanta from old tool hades to old tool purgatory it would be Highland Hardware. I have touchy feelied most of the new-old tools mentioned on the porch including the LN line, Snow and Neely and Primus. Saw no galoots and none apparently saw me because I wore stealth #24 all day. I have GOT to get a summertime version of galoot headgear. Grey wool in the summer in Hotlanta is brain suicide! I did visit fellow galoot Bob Key afterwards to pick up a spiffy piece of Pete's curly maple. Drooled over his cabinet-o-planes, realized what it takes to me on a first name basis with Tom LN. Sheesh :-) Back to the quiet in the storm. I got in maybe an hour of watching Frank Klaus make dovetail after flawless dovetail (pins first) Some interesting points to ponder: Favorit chisels "sharp ones" if pressed, he likes the Marples blue handles "they take a good edge and the handles don't break' Spoke VERY highly of the IT dovetail saw he used all day "ready to go right out of the box, stays sharp forever, works just as it should". Sharpened those blue handled beasts on a waterstone moving the chisel *side to side*. Said it's easier to keep the right sharpening angle that way. He allowed pins and tails to go slightly proud then shaved (and I mean -shaved-) them flush using a blue-painted-plastic-knobbed-chrome-bladed record #4 he had tuned just that day. What some people won't do to show off :-) A fun day even if I didn't find any tools worth buying. Thom Trail Ga Galoot ++++ End of thread 19011 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19012 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42959 (thread 19012) ---- From: jason fink - isd 3943 Date: 1998-05-08 21:23:00 Subject: Re: Tim Kelly's last Toy >The thing about all this that really bugs me is that I >feel that some people can be grossly inconsiderate of >another individual by saying negative things about the >person's ethics, workmanship, etc. in this virtual >environment in which literally everyone in the world >could be an audience. I don't consider such to be fair >nor very considerate. snip I would also hope that each of us would be kind enough, as well as, man enough to discuss any negatives with the individual prior to doing an "objective review" thus extending the courtesy of affording to that individual the opportunity to explain, resolve, or rectify the alleged grievance. Otherwise, an "objective review" rapidly degrades into something rather self serving. Yup, I bought somthing from Kelly Tool, was dissappointed with the results but did not seek recourse, nor call him to explain my disappointment. I know Tim would be better off hearing some of my critisim, and maybe he would take it to heart. But, I didnt want to return my planes, I didnt want to call Tim again, I didnt want any recourse taken. I probably should have done one, or all of those things, but I did not. And so it goes... It didnt take more than 15 mins with 400 grit to get the rust, flux, & fingerprints off my plane, but as a retailer of "Fine tools", Tim shouldnt need me to tell him this isnt really acceptable. The purpose of my original post, and what I belive Larry's post, was to inform you guys out there of our experiences. I was attempting to be careful with my wording so as not to 'turn folks off' from Kelly Tool. I ecourage folks to buy from Kelly Tool, but also to 'demand' that it look good Out-of-the-Box. I dont belive I did anything wrong by airing my feelings here, nor do I think Larry and I were being grossly inconsiderate. Some of you feel otherwise, and I guess thats the way it is in this crazy list called OLDTOOLS. Okay, I think I'm done for the day. There is a six-pack of cold ones (yup, schlitz!) waiting for me at at home... and Im already halfway there. -jas P.S. Check out my Day job at http://gisweb.cabq.gov, I'm thinkin about how to do this to illustrate "Galoot Points of Interest". All I need is some data, and a few weekends of programming, it just might work! ++++ End of thread 19012 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19013 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42960 (thread 19013) ---- From: Norman Witt Date: 1998-05-08 21:23:00 Subject: Re: making a scrub I have found an 8 inch radius to be very useful on my roughing plane. This is apparently what Mike Dunbar recommends for jack planes used in his chairmaking class (I don't remember if I got this from his book, or a posting from one of his students). I have a #5 set up this way; it is easily removes shavings up to 1/8 inch, and has become the most frequently used plane in my shop. As someone else already mentioned, a regular plane with a radiused iron is not the same as a true scrub. The narrower, more sharply radiused iron of the scrub allows deeper cuts, and the plane behaves veryy differently. A narrow iron in a #4 doesn't work very well either, since the width of the plane relative to the iron makes it difficult know exactly where you are cutting; I tried this once, and it was very frustrating. My #40 is capable of taking shavings up to 1/4 inch. The good news is that the #5 roughing plane will cover most roughing tasks, especially if you also have a draw knife. About the only thing I use mine for is reducing the thickness of boards that are too wide for a drawknife. One thing I have found useful for radiusing plane irons is to mark the curve on the back of the blade. This way I can grind to the line instead of eyeballing the curve. I don't do this often enough to get a good curve by eye. I also like to grind at right angles (i.e. no bevel) to set the curve, and then do the bevel as a second operation. Hope this helps, Norm W. ++++ End of thread 19013 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19014 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42964 (thread 19014) ---- From: Norman Witt Date: 1998-05-08 22:10:00 Subject: Realizations Last week I finished a relatively simple project: a fairly simple turned lamp for my Mom. The actual turning involved a large electric lathe, so I won't dwell on it too much, although I did get to use my Dad's monster Greenlee turning gouge in the process. I did, however do all the stock preparation using hand tools. The stock was sawn from a 2 inch oak plank with rip and crosscut saws. The base was roughed out with a turning saw. The spindle was glued up from 2 oak slabs, using my #8 to make the glue joint. I also plowed a groove down the face of one of the spindle pieces, to guide the drill for the central hole. After the glue was dried, I roughed down the spindle with broad hatchet, drawknife, and roughing jack. Just the same basic neanderthal woodworking stuff that gets discussed all the time here. The thing that struck me a couple of days later, was that the prep work went very quickly (about an hour, spread over a couple of evenings), and I did it without even thinking about the fact that I was not using power tools. Since this was the usual rushed project, I went with what would do the job with the minimum time and effort, and ended up reaching for mostly hand tools without really considering that I was doing anything unusual. This stuff becomes instinctive after a while, and ends up being surprisingly efficient too. Norm W. not a handtool purist, but who uses them where they work better and easier that their powered counterparts. ++++ End of thread 19014 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19015 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42966 (thread 19015) ---- From: Scott Stager Date: 1998-05-08 22:05:00 Subject: MWTCA-Columbia MO-Gregarious Galoot Gathering Hey Columbia bound galoots!! Fellow Columbia MO Galoots Sam Peterson, Denis Hancock, and I have been literally chomping at the bits waiting for the MWTCA National Meet here in centrally located Columbia MO next month. All three of us are quite new MWTCA members so this will be our first MWTCA meeting except for the local regional which I made it to last summer. Following in the tradition of other regional galoot gatherings, we just couldn't pass up the opportunity to invite fellow galoots from far and yon who will be coming to the MWTCA meeting to also take a little time for a Gregarious Galoot Gathering (GGG). Having never been to a national meeting I made a guess as to the best time within the MWTCA window to do this. Some time back I reserved a pavilion at a very nice local park for the afternoon and early evening of Friday June 19th. Now that the official schedule has arrived I can sigh in relief that we avoided the Thursday tailgating :.). MWTCA has men's programs and the A&K cooperage tour scheduled for Friday afternoon/evening. I in no way want to draw galoots away from those activities, but hope that those who are interested can fit in both those and a pass by the GGG. The reserved pavilion will provide protection from sun (or rain), a BBQ grill, and ample picnic tables. Sam has assured me that he will have benchtop ported to the location for adhoc demonstrations of galoot methods. I will truck my portable blacksmith forge outfit to the site for people to play with fire (I'm only a fledgling blacksmith, so any semi-pros who show up will be encouraged to demonstrate ;.). MofA indicated in a private note earlier that he might be able to find a couple of trashed transitionals for a mini re-creation of the well known event of last year (though we might have to do it in my forge or the BBQ grill) - and he mentioned something about a couple of cases of Eastern YB malt beverage. I will supply a highly flavorful similar beverage from a local brewing establishment. Details will follow, but for now please let me know what the level of interest might be. If you know you will be here, or think there is a pretty good chance, let me know. Plans can be modified to accomodate interest, even including an semi-organized evening barbecue. Reply directly to me, retaining the subject from this note. Details will follow. Boy oh Boy oh Boy is this gonna be fun or what!!!! -- Scott, Sam and Denis **** IMPORTANT *** One additional note - pay heed to the MWTCA notice about Promise Keepers coming here that weekend. They could suck up every available motel/hotel room within 50 miles, so get your motel reservations in NOW (not next week, NOW!!) - note the May 17th space available deadline on the reservation card. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Scott Stager Email: ccstager@s... | | University Computing Services | | Information and Access Technology Services | | 615 Locust Street - Suite #1 Phone: (573)-882-9289 | | University of Missouri Fax: (573)-882-9806 | | Columbia, MO 65211 | ---- Start of Message 42983 (thread 19015) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-09 01:41:00 Subject: Re: MWTCA-Columbia MO-Gregarious Galoot Gathering Scott Stager wrote: snip >**** IMPORTANT *** > >One additional note - pay heed to the MWTCA notice about Promise Keepers >coming here that weekend. They could suck up every available motel/hotel >room within 50 miles, so get your motel reservations in NOW (not next week, >NOW!!) - note the May 17th space available deadline on the reservation card. Too Late! The Rooms have been gone for more than a week. DAMHINT. These complications have made it impossible for my partner and I to attend. We've already canceled our plans after a bunch of money dumped into long distance phone calls hunting for a room. Larry Williams ---- Start of Message 43101 (thread 19015) ---- From: Jim Bramel Date: 1998-05-12 13:33:00 Subject: Re: MWTCA-Columbia MO-Gregarious Galoot Gathering When I made my reservations at Holdiay Inn about two maybe three weeks ago, I was told that I got the last room. They also said they were not reserving non-smoking rooms. Jim At 05:05 PM 5/8/98 -0500, Scott Stager wrote: >Hey Columbia bound galoots!! > >**** IMPORTANT *** > >One additional note - pay heed to the MWTCA notice about Promise Keepers >coming here that weekend. They could suck up every available motel/hotel >room within 50 miles, so get your motel reservations in NOW (not next week, >NOW!!) - note the May 17th space available deadline on the reservation card. > ---- Start of Message 43123 (thread 19015) ---- From: JPark1812 Date: 1998-05-12 18:05:00 Subject: Re: MWTCA-Columbia MO-Gregarious Galoot Gathering I called the holiday Inn last night and got a reservation but not at the conference rate. It was $11 more. I only got Wed & Thurs nights as i have to hit the road Friday late any way the weekend may be a lot harder. There were other rooms then as I was given several choices. Hey tailgate morning bumping into the dark... some of us wondered who was going to market the official Galoot miners type light to put on hats in the AM haze ? Jim Parker Montgomery Al ---- Start of Message 43148 (thread 19015) ---- From: Jim Bramel Date: 1998-05-13 11:47:00 Subject: Re: MWTCA-Columbia MO-Gregarious Galoot Gathering I stick one of those mini-mag or whatever flashlights in my mouth. Works for me. Jim At 06:05 PM 5/12/98 EDT, JPark1812 wrote: > >Hey tailgate morning bumping into the dark... some of us wondered who was >going to market the official Galoot miners type light to put on hats in the AM >haze ? > ++++ End of thread 19015 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19016 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42972 (thread 19016) ---- From: John R Mudd Date: 1998-05-09 11:00:00 Subject: Re: MWTCA-Columbia MO-Gregarious Galoot Gathering > Hey Columbia bound galoots!! > > Fellow Columbia MO Galoots Sam Peterson, Denis Hancock, and I have been > literally chomping at the bits waiting for the MWTCA National Meet here in > centrally located Columbia MO next month. All three of us are quite new > MWTCA members so this will be our first MWTCA meeting except for the local > regional which I made it to last summer. > > Following in the tradition of other regional galoot gatherings, we just > couldn't pass up the opportunity to invite fellow galoots from far and yon > who will be coming to the MWTCA meeting to also take a little time for a > Gregarious Galoot Gathering (GGG). > > Having never been to a national meeting I made a guess as to the best time > within the MWTCA window to do this. Some time back I reserved a pavilion at > a very nice local park for the afternoon and early evening of Friday June > 19th. Now that the official schedule has arrived I can sigh in relief that > we avoided the Thursday tailgating :.). MWTCA has men's programs and the > A&K cooperage tour scheduled for Friday afternoon/evening. I in no way want > to draw galoots away from those activities, but hope that those who are > interested can fit in both those and a pass by the GGG. > > The reserved pavilion will provide protection from sun (or rain), a BBQ > grill, and ample picnic tables. Sam has assured me that he will have > benchtop ported to the location for adhoc demonstrations of galoot methods. > I will truck my portable blacksmith forge outfit to the site for people to > play with fire (I'm only a fledgling blacksmith, so any semi-pros who show > up will be encouraged to demonstrate ;.). MofA indicated in a private note > earlier that he might be able to find a couple of trashed transitionals for > a mini re-creation of the well known event of last year (though we might > have to do it in my forge or the BBQ grill) - and he mentioned something > about a couple of cases of Eastern YB malt beverage. I will supply a highly > flavorful similar beverage from a local brewing establishment. > > Details will follow, but for now please let me know what the level of > interest might be. If you know you will be here, or think there is a pretty > good chance, let me know. Plans can be modified to accomodate interest, > even including an semi-organized evening barbecue. Reply directly to me, > retaining the subject from this note. Details will follow. > > Boy oh Boy oh Boy is this gonna be fun or what!!!! > > -- Scott, Sam and Denis > > **** IMPORTANT *** > > One additional note - pay heed to the MWTCA notice about Promise Keepers > coming here that weekend. They could suck up every available motel/hotel > room within 50 miles, so get your motel reservations in NOW (not next week, > NOW!!) - note the May 17th space available deadline on the reservation card. > > > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Scott Stager Email: ccstager@s... | > | University Computing Services | > | Information and Access Technology Services | > | 615 Locust Street - Suite #1 Phone: (573)-882-9289 | > | University of Missouri Fax: (573)-882-9806 | > | Columbia, MO 65211 | > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 19016 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19017 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42975 (thread 19017) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-08 23:21:00 Subject: new #271 well I just could not hold out anymore for a vintage #271 to drop into my lap so'z I ordered one from a catalog Co... I figured the cost of one new is still less than vintage ones are going for and also figuring "Sheeit how badly _can_ St@nley F*ck up a tool as simple as this?" well the kit arrived (I call it a kit because that is EXACTLY what it was.) nd my question was answered.... the sole, as small as it was was rather warped, concave and had serious milling marks in it.. (so bad it would ruin the face of any board it was slid across.....) I mean TOTALLY unuseable. So I fire up the Turbo-Lap(tm) and let the sole surf on 80 grit for about 20 seconds, chaged belts to 120, 10 seconds more, then I jumped on up worn-out to 600 (purely for polishing) and let her ride for about 30 seconds (got a bit hot, it did ;-) took the sole off the belt and set it on a block of bees-wax, which was readily melted and sucked righ up by the thirsty pores of the hot cast iron.. let it cool for 5 minutes, buffed out the wax, and then checked the sole again... fine. If there was one redeeming quality from this purchase it was the iron the Iron was very nice steel, it actually appeared to have been hand forged if you can believe it.. a few minutes @ the SS plate and the iron was insediously(sp) sharp.. (they musta had a million units make back in 1890 and still have not used them al up, serioulsy..> Okay, in use, well I dunno HOW I managed w/out one for so long especially considering the relitively low cost of these buggers.... there are some times when nothing else will do (like the current project which incorporater 1/4" x 1/4" stopped dadoes,,, only a #271 could done it right. it really saved my butt this time, as SWMBO's Mommies day present is in the clamps right now as teh glue dries... just in time to slap on a coat of finish tomorrow and deliver Sunday ;-) ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 19017 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19018 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42980 (thread 19018) ---- From: Darrell LaRue Date: 1998-05-09 00:48:00 Subject: Making Banding (long, ascii art) Galoots, OK so here I am stuck a work babysitting a cranky system on a Friday night. So why not write something more-or-less useful? So here goes... Oh, yes: WARNING! ASCII ART!! Make Yer Own Banding. Many of you galoots have probably used banding at one time or other, and just about everyone has seen it on a piece of antique furniture. Have you tried making your own? This is a great project that takes little time and material to make something interesting. If you had to work out how to make it from scratch (with no sample at hand, just memories of seeing it on one of your Grandmother's tables ;^) the hardest part would be trying to recollect your high-school geometry. Once you've figured it out, it's easy. The banding I will descibe here is one of the simplest patterns; with some extra diligence and inspiration you can make just about anything, right? Material: You need some thin stock in contrasting wood. I started with 1/4 inch cherry and walnut, about 3 inches wide by 16 inches long. I had two pieces of each. Try to get the pieces the same thickness (it helps). Glue them up face-to-face. To conserve wood a bit offset each piece so the pile is roughly at 45 degrees. Like so... __________________________________________________ __/ / __/ / / __/ / / / / / / XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX / / OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO / XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Once the glue has dried, even up both ends by cutting at 45 degrees (using your favourite method; be that a vintage mitre-box or a b*nds*w or t*bl*s*w). Now cut a scrap of pine (or whatever) at 45 degrees and glue it one one end of the mess you've made so far. That's a handle, and it comes in especially useful when you're trying to make the last few cuts (soon). Now slice this sandwich up into sections (once again at 45 degrees). You'll end up with a lot of these: side view: top view: /X/O/X/O/ |X|O|X|O| |X|O|X|O| Glue these together, end to end. This may require some innovative clamping, and you might have to do it in small sections, and work your way up. Now you have this: /X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/ Now face-joint and thickness this piece. The more even it is, the better the final result. Make or otherwise acquire some veneer (I use 1/16 inch thick sawn from the same light-coloured wood that makes up the banding). Make a sandwich. It looks like this: ________________________________________________________ /X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/X/O/ -------------------------------------------------------- To use the banding, you just rip a thin slice off one edge, trim to fit your groove, and glue it down. It's a good idea to leave the final assembly slightly thick, so that you can trim the banding to fit the groove, rather than trying to shim too-narrow strips. DAMHINT. OK That's enough. Too much ascii art for one day. Hope this has been a worthwhile read. Darrell -- Darrell LaRue Scotia Capital Markets Toronto Ontario, Canada Opinions expressed herein are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. "That ain't no slippery slope, that's an inclined plane!" ---- Start of Message 42993 (thread 19018) ---- From: Walt Stein Date: 1998-05-09 15:50:00 Subject: Re: Making Banding (long, ascii art) At 08:48 PM 5/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Galoots, >The banding I will descibe here is one of the simplest >patterns; with some extra diligence and inspiration you >can make just about anything, right? Finally, a thread to which I can contribute some (less-than-expert) experience and knowhow. Not all bandings can be made by the "building up a canape sandwich" technique well described in this post. Several years ago, I spent six months or so inspired by the Lee Valley Bouffard poster, and came up with several "mother boards" for simple and complex bandings. If you can visualize the banding that appears to be a run of three-d cubes (of the sort we all drew in grammar school), you will see that it cannot be built up by the slice and glue, slice and glue, method. Rather, it must be glued up from fully-formed pieces on a wysiwyg basis. Hence, a cube (viewed end-wise) followed by two parallellograms one above the other, followed by two triangles joined apex to apex ..another cube...another two parallellograms....etc to infinity. The skill of the guys at bouffard who formed and fitted the individual components on their more complex motherboards that must have been many inches thick (in order to produce enough lengths to make the bandings commercially viable) astounds me. yours, walt ---- Start of Message 42994 (thread 19018) ---- From: Walt Stein Date: 1998-05-09 16:37:00 Subject: Re: Making Banding (long, ascii art) Another two cents of afterthought: Consider this, as well: you are looking at facegrain on the Bouffard bandings, which means that these long sections glued side by side are formed from crosscut, not ripped, lengths of stock. Yours, Walt ++++ End of thread 19018 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19019 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42982 (thread 19019) ---- From: Andrew Barss barss@U... Date: 1998-05-09 01:41:00 Subject: tool handles: what for??? Andrew, >one gee-whiz shiny tool handle, by Millers Falls, the kind with a >mini vise on one end, and a large, hollow wooden handle on the >other, with a screw top in't, containing various pointy little >tools. >I love this tool, and can't for the life of me figure how I, or >any normal human with just two hands, is supposed to use the damn >thing. PLEASE NOTE!!!! >I imagine I'm suppose to screw a little piece of wood into the >little vise. Then I hold the thing in one hand, by the handle, >and then hit at the clamped piece with a sharp piece of metal I've >extracted from the hollow handle. What are these things for? Are you missing a piece? Some of these had a square bit shank on them as well so that you could put in your brace and then.... Turn it while your holding it and hitting the metal bit that you extracted from your handle into the clamped bit of burfl. Personally I feel that these tool handles are the long ignored evidence of extra terrestrial life. Ones that have: a) a higher level of intelligence (they know how to use this) b) more than two hands. IMHO, -all- tool handles suffer from the gee-whiz factor. Too neat to pass up, too rinky dink to use. (How many people have really used the -fish scaler- blade on their Swiss army knife either...) Bruce Minneapolis, MinneSOtaReceived: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [15.81.184.10]) by i3125om3.atl.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.3 TIS 5.0 Openmail) id CAA05893 for BRUCE_VANSLOUN@H...; Fri, 8 May 1998 02:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www3.law.cornell.edu (WWW3.LAW.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.22.202]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5tis) with SMTP id XAA06225 for BRUCE_VANSLOUN@H...; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www3.law.cornell.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA14267; Fri, 8 May 1998 01:21:24 -0400 Received: from f1n4.u.arizona.edu (f1n4.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.104]) by www3.law.cornell.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA14214 for oldtools@l...; Fri, 8 May 1998 01:20:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (barss@localhost) by f1n4.u.arizona.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA31490 for oldtools@l...; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:18:32 -0700 Message-Id: Pine.A41.3.96.980507231418.49790C-100000@f... Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:18:32 -0700 (MST) Reply-To: barss@U... Sender: owner-oldtools@l... Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Barss barss@U... To: oldtools oldtools@l... Subject: tool handles: what for??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

++++ End of thread 19019 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19020 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42986 (thread 19020) ---- From: buzzmk Date: 1998-05-09 03:57:00 Subject: Froe find Greetings Galoots, In my travels around Texas, my home state mind you, I have stumbled across an "establishment" that has a modest selection of tools. Can't get too detailed, Aaron's missus & the mother-in-law might do another drive by...might I add that we're feeling quiet violated right now here in Texas! This "place of business" has three hand forged froes, no wood, all about 10" to 12" long. Overall condition is quiet good. I want one for myself - but is there in demand for the remaining two? What is a rough estimate of price? FYI this is the same place I picked a #4 1/2 type 11, #4 type 17 and a #4c for cheap & I do mean cheap. Any help is greatly appreciated. Buzz ++++ End of thread 19020 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19021 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42990 (thread 19021) ---- From: carlwshp Date: 1998-05-09 13:58:00 Subject: Sharping MF#1 Hello, Can someone tell me where I can find info on sharping my MF#1, I went to ralphs page but didn't help, someone had sharping instructions with a diagram about six months ago but I can't find it. any help is appreciated. Thanks Carl Murphy Eastport, Maine ---- Start of Message 42995 (thread 19021) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-09 16:38:00 Subject: Re: Sharping MF#1 >Hello, > >Can someone tell me where I can find info on sharping my MF#1, I went to >ralphs page but didn't help, someone had sharping instructions with a >diagram about six months ago but I can't find it. That would have been me.. these are the instructions that came w/ my Kelly Tool Works reproduction of the M-F #1 it's still there but I have not had time to add a link ot it... try: http://www.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/images/C_ShaveSM.gif ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ---- Start of Message 43093 (thread 19021) ---- From: Jeff Gorman Date: 1998-05-11 20:42:00 Subject: RE: Sharping MF#1 Carl Murphy wrote: > Can someone tell me where I can find info on sharping my MF#1, Wazzat den? Jeff -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html ++++ End of thread 19021 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19022 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42992 (thread 19022) ---- From: Carl Muhlhausen Date: 1998-05-10 03:00:00 Subject: Central Joizy Wud Woikers Central Jersey Woodworkers Association May Meeting: The May meeting of the CJWA will feature Andy Rae, Associate Editor of American Woodworker Magazine. Andy will discuss and demonstrate building a furniture quality Adirondack chair. This project was a featured article in a recent issue of AWW. The meeting will be held at our usual location - the Old Brick Reformed Church in Marlboro, NJ - from 7 -10 PM. In addition to Andy Rae's talk, club member John Aniano will discuss status and plans for the club bench project. We will also hold the usual raffle, so bring any old tools or woodworking supplies that you aren't really using and are willing to donate. June meeting: The June meeting will be held on Wednesday June 10th from 7-10 PM at the Old Brick Reformed Church. We will once again feature talks from our talented club members. If you would like to give a talk, please let me know. The Old Brick Reformed Church is located on Route 520 (Newman Springs Road) in Marlboro, NJ Directions: We will be meeting in seperate building that is located a short distance behind the church itself. The church is located on Route 520 approx. one-quarter of a mile from the Route 520 & Route 79 intersection. Members coming from the GSP can exit at #109 and proceed west on Route 520/Newman Springs Road into Marlboro (approx. 6 miles), the large Brick church is on your right side, just past Marlboro Physciatric Hospital. Members coming in from Route 18 should find the Route 79 North exit most convienent. Proceed North on Route 79 for approx 2 miles to the Route 520/Newman Springs Road instersection (WaWa and Amaco gas station on corner). Make a right hand turn at light...go 1/4 mile, the church is on the left. Carl Muhlhausen President CJWA -- Carl Muhlhausen ledzep@a... AT&T Data Networking Services (732) 576-3052 New improved Personal Web page at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/1722 ++++ End of thread 19022 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19023 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42996 (thread 19023) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-09 18:13:00 Subject: weeknd spewage well I got the first coat of finish on the body of the Mom's Day Gift... Victoria and I spent many hours working on this and it sure is sweet.. a simple affair .. Dovetailed box, floating panels top and bottom.. right? WRONG. in doing this box I remebered the last one I make w/ a floating panel in the bottom... the ends of the dadoes ran all the way to the end of all the boards and left ugly square holes in the endgrain on each side.. so I figured I'll just "stop" them.. hey Tom L-N is closing out his corner chisels, the 1/4" would be perfect, yep need me one of them... ohh and a #271 is needed as ewll, need me one of them too (score two more tools for one project, like that, yup.;-) Okay some carefull layout of dovetails so the groove stop in one of the tails, no problem.. laid out the complete box's tail (planning to "cut the lid off" after the box is finished) so I laid out the tails so the bttom owuld have two and the lid would have one, leaving a space to free the lid later and have them all come out pefectly symetrical... I was mighty proud of myself we cut all the tails & pins and they were okay but had some mighty big gaps in them, but that is to be expected w/ a galoote and 4.5Tr/old SWMBEtte.... on to the grooves.. the #45 Already had a 1/4 " blade set up in it from the last project so I just used that (how convenient, eh?-) ploughed the top&bottom groove fill lenght in the short ends. for the long ends I pulled the plane once, backwards, across the ends so as to use the nickers to score my layout lines so everything would line up like magic (mighty proud of myself for thinking of that, yup) I calculated the ends by adding 1/4" to where the dovetal baseline crossed the scored lines for the groove and then picke up my L-N corner chisel and popped a light score mark to mark the ends and protect it from splitting out then I deepened the shoulder lines of the groove w/ my SW Marking knife and using thecorner chisel, the #271 and a 1/4" bench chisle I made quick work of the stopped grooves... I'm starting to feel quite confortable here.. (only split out 3 tail ends luckily I saved them to glue back on later ;-) Okay make sone panels easy enough... cut to lenght and width some stock for the botton, use the rebate plane to "raise" the panel and form the tounges that will sit in the grooves.... wow, this is gettinge easier all the time!... for the top I wanted to do something special.... I dug though the pile and came out w/ the dreadded @#$%^Bird'sEyeMaple... hmmm if I re-saw this little peice and book-match it it will look really slick, but remebering my last adventure w. the stuff I was really scared to try it, and I was running out of time, Ahh WTF, go for it! so I did. out came the #8 w/ a SS(tm) Hock(r) Iron and jointed one edge (do it now so I'll get a good glue joint later ;-) resawed the peice, edge glued it and let it rest... I them ran the peice through Srub-Boy (12" pl@n&r) really not that much ter-out, I was surprised! took it down to 3/8".. then I set about some serious work w/. the L-N#112.. abybody who has tried to take off 1/8" of stock on @#$%^Bird'sEyeMaple one whispy shaving at a time so as not to tear out all to hell knows just how daunting of a task that is. but I learned that it is when you start getting greed, this stuff will just tear out all to hell and you either start all over gain, nice and slow or throw it trough a wall... Okay so the top panel is done... everything is cut and fits together nicely (except for the gap you could drive a truck through in the dovetail joints ;-) I decided to glue-up the box one side at a time (fully Assembled but glue only on one half, then do the zecond half later. this worked out well.. the Gorilla glue has good working time and I was able to fill a lot of the sloppy joints w/ shavings slipped into the gap and trimmed off (luckily I had a big pile of shavings to choose from to get the color just right, and of-course replace the ends that spit off from doung the stopped grooves.. let that glue set up for a few hours, take off the unglued side and remove the panels. get the first two coats of finish on them. and in the grooves.. next day slide them back in and glue-up/patch the other side. Today was spent planing the tails flush all the sides down one last time did it all w/ my #605 quite surprisingly.. Time to get some finsh on the freshly planed sides before I get them all dirty again, set teh bottm on a turntable and applied a coat to everything (exceopt the bottom panel, obviously) sat back and looed at the beautifull work.. yeah I was feeling just a migh bit proud looking at allthat work and how (relitively) well it came out, _untill...._ I notice something... hmm the tail spacing seems Odd.. huh? I _know_ I tripple checked everything before I stated cutting, then it hit me I switched the top and bottom panels!!!! stupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupid.... so now I either have weierd tail spacing, or I have a nice Patagonian Cherry Bow w/a @#$%^Bird'sEyeMaple bottom. ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ++++ End of thread 19023 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19024 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42997 (thread 19024) ---- From: Paul Honore Date: 1998-05-09 17:29:00 Subject: Hancock Shkr Village (was Friday story/ the non-electric table saw) >At 9:25 PM -0400 5/8/98, Newbold wrote: > > Hancock Shaker Village each year at Wood Day (June, this year) > The Hancock Shaker Village webpage (www.hancockshakervillage.org) lists their "Woodworking Weekend" as May 27-28 which looks like a typo. I suspect it is June 27-28 but anyone going should check for sure. Sounds like the same type of activities as the famous Hancock galoot get together of last year. Unfortunately, I don't believe any tailgating is planned. As I recall that part of the action was organized as an MWTCA area "meet". There's also a "Blacksmithing" weekend planned for July 25-26. Paul Honore Hebron CT phonore@i... ++++ End of thread 19024 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19025 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42998 (thread 19025) ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 1998-05-09 18:14:00 Subject: Marking gages WAS:Something about Boilermakers First of all I need to get this out of my system. I hate the combination of Juno software and my home computer. It is just too darned easy to waste an email irretrievably. I just did that to Professor Brendler P.I.'s brilliant deduction that Scott Post had come across a "common as dirt Stanley #65" from Purdue. Why they would need a marking gage to mix beer and whiskey is hard to understand. Maybe that is why our feral guy is into oldtools. Anyway, #65s may be as common as dirt in Brendlerville but around here they are just like dirt. I have never bought but one old gage. I only got it because it was marked "Disston #77". I like Disston and Yankee stuff. But all other gages encountered in the wild are real pieces of dogmeat. Either they are missing parts or look like the dog really thought it was food and chewed until it realized the mistake an hour later. And the frustrating part is that everyone prices this crap as if it were a national treasure. They are almost always higher then new ones can be had for. Assuming this is a universal phenomenon for everyone but Ralphie Baby, what are you galoots doing for user marking gages? I have a Crown combo marking and mortise gage and it works well. It is even reasonably priced at the Woodwhaker's Warehouse. I would like more because I don't like changing settings and then change back to the original setting. I would like to have a few with each set to the dimension needed, and not have to change them until the next project. But I would like to try some other types as well. The cutting gage that Crown makes looks interesting. So does the wheel marking gage made by Veritas. Anyone with an opinion on these or other gages you like? Regards, Steve - who thinks Karl has been drinking a little too much Finish Feeder in his retirement if he thinks us working galoots can just drop everything and drive to all the nearby tool collector meetings. Cheers Karl! ---- Start of Message 43000 (thread 19025) ---- From: J. Gunterman Date: 1998-05-09 23:33:00 Subject: Re: Marking gages WAS:Something about Boilermakers >what are you galoots doing for user marking gages? > I have a Crown combo marking and mortise gage and it works well. I have a spiffy Stanley combo jobbie offa MofA that is s swell user. >The cutting gage that Crown makes looks interesting. yep.. it was my very first guage, they were cheap enough that I got two..... Once you get a decent shaped edge on the knife it works pretty well.. One guage was handed down to Victoria for her tool-kit about a year ago.... the other is in the "working kit" but rarely gets used anymore. >So does the wheel marking gage made by Veritas. Yup I have multiples of these.. one w/ wheel bezel in, one w/ the bezel out (for marking inside or outside cuts, of course.) I have a spare for in the event Justin Case visits and of course Victoria has one in her tool-kit. one caveat w/ this guage though, is that the screw can work loose.. I found a dab of" blue" Loctite(r) on the threads will hold it securely untill oyu _want_ it to come off... the screw and cutting wheel are _impossible_ to find when they fall off and land on a shop floor covered w/ shavings ~ John http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/INDEX.HTM http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1824 ---- Start of Message 43020 (thread 19025) ---- From: Larry Williams Date: 1998-05-10 21:28:00 Subject: Re: Marking gages WAS:Something about Boilermakers Steve Reynolds wrote: > Assuming this is a universal phenomenon >for everyone but Ralphie Baby, what are you galoots >doing for user marking gages? I have a Crown combo >marking and mortise gage and it works well. Marking gages??? Paddy used to do it with his teeth. In a box. In the road. God only knows what some of the others had to make do with 8-) Me? I've been using the same Marples mortise gage that I bought in the 70's. Still have the box around some where, but I've hauled this gage around with me so much it's pretty ragged looking. I'd like to have one of the Bridge City pizza wheel marking gages and maybe someday... For now though, my old gage is comfortable as an old shoe and I just don't think about it much. Probably because they're usually near the top of the pile on my bench, the other "gages" I use often are Starrett adjustable squares and I like them when close is good enough. I don't sharpen the points of the mortise gage to the crescent shape. I prefer a oval shape. It's quicker, less fuss and makes it cleaner to work on either side of the line, IMO. Larry Williams ---- Start of Message 43038 (thread 19025) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-11 14:22:00 Subject: Re: Marking gages WAS:Something about Boilermakers I have one of the Bridge City Marking Gagues (SWMBO gave itto me for my B-D a year ago, it works great and so far no problems with the screw coming out :) Aaron I. the other aaron Larry Williams wrote: > > Steve Reynolds wrote: > > > > > Assuming this is a universal phenomenon > >for everyone but Ralphie Baby, what are you galoots > >doing for user marking gages? I have a Crown combo > >marking and mortise gage and it works well. > > Marking gages??? Paddy used to do it with his teeth. In a > box. In the road. God only knows what some of the others > had to make do with 8-) > > Me? I've been using the same Marples mortise gage that I > bought in the 70's. Still have the box around some where, > but I've hauled this gage around with me so much it's pretty > ragged looking. I'd like to have one of the Bridge City pizza > wheel marking gages and maybe someday... For now though, my > old gage is comfortable as an old shoe and I just don't think > about it much. > > Probably because they're usually near the top of the pile on > my bench, the other "gages" I use often are Starrett adjustable > squares and I like them when close is good enough. > > I don't sharpen the points of the mortise gage to the crescent > shape. I prefer a oval shape. It's quicker, less fuss and makes > it cleaner to work on either side of the line, IMO. > > Larry Williams > ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ---- Start of Message 43087 (thread 19025) ---- From: Ron Harper Date: 1998-05-12 01:54:00 Subject: Re: Marking gages WAS:Something about Boilermakers ---------- > From: , what are you galoots > >doing for user marking gages? OOOOH OOOOOOH anothe chance to goalt about my new ultimatum mortise gage... AAAAAAAAAAH Have a BCTW marking gage that SWMBO bought for me A walnut cutting gage that Larry made for me a 77 and a new crown gage Nosir that's nowhere close to a collection Ron ++++ End of thread 19025 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19026 ++++ ---- Start of Message 42999 (thread 19026) ---- From: BRUCE KANTELIS Date: 1998-05-09 22:55:00 Subject: Free Chisels - Endowment Hello All, After cleaning up the shop and looking at the massive box of still unhandled chisels I would like to propose something to the group. I have a set of Marples Blue Chips in excellent condition that I will give away free to anyone who really needs then and can't afford them. The caveat is that when you do get a nicer set, you offer these again to another needy user. Send me a private email and i'll happily send them off. Regards, Bruce Kantelis ---- Start of Message 43116 (thread 19026) ---- From: La Pill Date: 1998-05-12 11:34:00 Subject: Re: Free Chisels - Endowment I don't remember any public response to this posting (course 'd memory isn't what it used to be too). I think it is a really great idea and I didn't want it to go silently unnoticed. It made me start thinking of what tool(s) I could do the same with...(But it's tough, once I get a tool and tune it it is kinda like family.) Anyway, I just wanted to say 'way to go', Bruce! Bill snipped... >I have a set of Marples Blue Chips in excellent condition that I will give >away free to anyone who really needs then and can't afford them. The caveat >is that when you do get a nicer set, you offer these again to another needy >user. > >Send me a private email and i'll happily send them off. > >Regards, >Bruce Kantelis > >------ ---- Start of Message 43140 (thread 19026) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-13 01:41:00 Subject: Re: Free Chisels - Endowment I agree..I must have missed to post originally in the flood of FMM postings, but feel this kind of generosity is in the correct spirit of Oldtools. I've said it before, but once again, I LIKE the people here! Regards, Nick ++++ End of thread 19026 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19027 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43001 (thread 19027) ---- From: Ken Greenberg Date: 1998-05-10 01:01:00 Subject: This miter be a gloat GGs- OK, OK, I apologize for the subject line.. Well, I have traditionally done OK at tool hunting, but I must have done something to upset my karmic yard sale balance of late. That would be Californian for "I haven't found squat." In frustration, I quit searching early last weekend, came home, and broke out the power mortising machine - that would be a 10 inch brace with a 1 inch bit and my #49 bit gage - and went to work on the trestle legs for my bench in progress. I figured I had upset the tool gods somehow, and it probably had to do with too much use of tailed apprentices. So perhaps an hour or two of sweating through galootish methods would restore the proper balance, please the powers that be, and improve my prospects. Well, folks, it seems to have worked. This weekend was the first annual town-wide yard sale here in good old Los Gatos, and I scanned the list of 100 or so homes looking for the magic word. Three of them had tools listed, but I don't get out before 11 AM since I'm taking a class on Saturday morning. The first two sellers looked at me like I was crazy (You expect there still to be tools at 11? There were no tools left after the first five minutes!). But the third place had a sign that said "The tools are out back in the yard." OK, twist my arm, I guess I'll see what pathetic remains are there. So I head into this 85 year-old retired carpenter's yard. He calls himself the Bionic Man, because he's had so many parts replaced he can't stand up in the shop any more. Both his knees are made of metal, he says. Can't trust those modern castings, I think. The first thing I spot is something I've been thinking about for a while now - a miter box. I had just missed out on a nice Millers Falls one at the Garage Full Of Tools Divorce Sale that Tim Swihart mentioned a few weeks ago. This one may be missing a few parts (who knows, since I'd never seen one like this before) but is not rusty and seems to work pretty well. So I take a look at the saw, and I can see right off that it's got a Disston medallion. I'm starting to be able to spot those things across the room. And it's not just any Disston - it's the biggest damn Disston saw I've ever seen. This is no wimpy back saw, this is the Saw That Ate Los Gatos. After it followed me home (you all knew that was coming), I measured it as 31 inches long by 6 inches high. Well, a good quality saw is a good sign, but I asked who made the miter box (there being no obvious markings on it) and the owner didn't know. Not a problem, since this is the first miter box I've actually seen at a yard sale, and he wanted $25 for it. I was not in a mood to argue, so I just said "I'll take it and what else have you got?" He had a pile of other saws, "Not one of 'em worth a damn" as he put it, and he was right. A Great Neck jack plane (oh boy), and no chisels, so the miter box was it. But I has a happy galoot, and I promised him I'd give it a good home and put it back to honorable work. I got it home for a closer examination under a stronger light, and I can't find markings on it. Finally I notice some lettering on the vertical sliding parts that guide the saw. Those parallel scratches really seem to say DELL. Let's look at that a little closer. No, what they say is GOODELL MFG CO GREENFIELD MASS USA PATENTED FEB 9 1904 OK, it's a keeper. Just say "It's the best thing I've found at a yard sale - so far" -Ken Ken Greenberg IT #321; Blue Galoot #82 400 Los Gatos Blvd., Los Gatos, CA 95032 ++++ End of thread 19027 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19028 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43002 (thread 19028) ---- From: stuart minuskin Date: 1998-05-10 02:39:00 Subject: tool auction have you collectors seen hans brunners international tool auction catalogs yet from australia. there are some really nice stuff in it. the auction is june 14,1998. ++++ End of thread 19028 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19029 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43003 (thread 19029) ---- From: Dave Harris Date: 1998-05-10 03:20:00 Subject: Weekend off (just rambling on !) For the last 8 or 9 weeks I have been doing the garage sale thing Thurs - Sun and have picked up a few tools. I have also got one of my sons, who does the garage sale thing with his girlfriend every week, to keep an eye out for tools (they have picked up 5 Disstons and a pile of other odds'n'sods so far). I have found that this takes away time from my 'woodworking time' as I tend to spend time fixing up the latest acquisitions. I am not collecting tools - just picking up users (yeah right !). Anyway, this week, I decided to give the sales a rest as I had lots of yard work, etc., to do. Today, I went to a garden center and purchased various plants for my vegetable garden and on the way home, saw the inevitable 'garage sale' sign so I swung by just to take a look. There on a table was a 607 Bedrock and a nice looking 2" slick. This is the first time I have ever seen a Bedrock other than at the recent MWTCA meet in Frankenmuth, MI. As soon as I took a look, the woman running the sale piped up that 'that is all thats left of the tools'. She went on to say that there had been a whole table full of collectors tools that had been on sale since Thursday and that they had only sold within the last couple of hours (her father, a retired carpenter, was selling the tools) - just my luck, the one weekend I decide to give the sales a miss ! I managed to haggle a price of $50.00 for the 607 and the slick and went away wondering what else I might have found if I had gone earlier. The 607 should make a reasonable user but unfortunately had been cleaned all over with what looks like a drill mounted wire wheel, so is covered in swirl marks which will probably be there for the rest of its life. The slick will clean up OK and will go on the wall for decoration - looks like a real 'galootish' tool. Cheers, Dave Harris MichiGaloot - Stealth #68 ---- Start of Message 43076 (thread 19029) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 22:01:00 Subject: RE: Weekend off (just rambling on !) Dave Harris nabs a bedrock: > The 607 should make a reasonable user but unfortunately had > been cleaned all over with what looks like a drill mounted wire wheel, so is > covered in swirl marks which will probably be there for the rest of its > life. I see stuff like this every now and then and groan. Is there a reasonable way to remove the swirlies? Do you polish the whole thing out and then wait for new patina? Or is it better for the swirlies to get patina'd. Maybe a little electrolysis then let it sit out a while to develop some light rust which can then be waxed over? Has anyone tried this? ---- Start of Message 43082 (thread 19029) ---- From: Nathan Lindsey Date: 1998-05-11 23:21:00 Subject: Re: Weekend off (just rambling on !) Bill Clouser wrote: > > Dave Harris nabs a bedrock: > > > The 607 should make a reasonable user but unfortunately had > > been cleaned all over with what looks like a drill mounted wire wheel, so is > > covered in swirl marks which will probably be there for the rest of its > > life. > > I see stuff like this every now and then and groan. Is there a reasonable way > to remove the swirlies? Do you polish the whole thing out and then wait for > new patina? Or is it better for the swirlies to get patina'd. Maybe a little > electrolysis then let it sit out a while to develop some light rust which can > then be waxed over? Has anyone tried this? Bill: Slip it into an electrolysis vat for a couple hours and it will remove most of the damage. Much of the swirl markings are just oxidation smears polished or compounded onto the casting by the wire brush. Remove that oxidation and you'll remove the swirls. FWIW, -- Nathan http://www2.interconnect.net/nlindsey/SawSetPage/SawSets.htm ++++ End of thread 19029 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19030 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43005 (thread 19030) ---- From: Hal Laurent Date: 1998-05-10 04:05:00 Subject: #80 cabinet scraper question I've had a #80 cabinet scraper for awhile, but never got around to tuning it up and using it until today. All in all I was quite pleased at how well it worked, and it seemed a bit easier to prepare the beveled blade than it is to prepare a "straight" hand-held scraper blade. Oh, and of course the #80 is a heck of a lot easier on the fingers than a hand scraper. :-) I had a bit of a problem with chattering on some of the wood, although it could pretty much be overcome by changing the direction of scraping and by skewing the scraper. I *did* notice that the chattering became less of a problem if I loosened the screw that bends the blade (sorry, I don't know its correct name :-). In fact, the scraper seemed to work best if the blade was not bent in the middle at all. This kind of makes me think that perhaps the burr on the blade might have been a bit too aggressive. Could chattering result from a too aggressive burr? -Hal Laurent ---- Start of Message 43008 (thread 19030) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-10 09:38:00 Subject: Re: #80 cabinet scraper question Hal Laurent Wrote: >This kind of makes me think that perhaps the burr on the >blade might have been a bit too aggressive. Could chattering >result from a too aggressive burr? That's what they say Hal: "a too aggressive burr" causes chatter. But I find it difficult to create a "not too agressive burr" on the 80. I have experimented with various angles and size of burr and I still get some chatter with the 80. I'm having a similar problem with my newly aquired L-N 112, though it has less tendency to, it does chatter. (To be fair, I have only spent about 1/2 hour with it.) I do much better with the type 81. I think there are two variables with the 80 and 81. One is the size of the burr, the other the angle. Using the Veritas variable burnisher, I have had the best results at 10+ degrees (about 12). I'm still working on the size issue. At our scraper prep tutorial session, Pete showed us how a minimum burr worked best, and he believes lasts longer. I think for a minimum burr, one must have a well prepared arris, flat with no scratches. Wavyness in the arris can result in no burr at one point, with too much at another. Pete also taught me how a burnisher is used to polish the edges prior to turning. (You can actually feel the roughness through burnisher vibrations, and feel it go away [while burnishing]). I'm hoping hat practice makes perfect. So far my best "scraper" is my L-N 62. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 43011 (thread 19030) ---- From: NLutz10449 Date: 1998-05-10 07:27:00 Subject: Re: #80 cabinet scraper question In a message dated 98-05-10 00:03:56 EDT, laurent@c... writes: > I *did* > notice that the chattering became less of a problem if I > loosened the screw that bends the blade (sorry, I don't know > its correct name :-). In fact, the scraper seemed to work > best if the blade was not bent in the middle at all. > > This kind of makes me think that perhaps the burr on the > blade might have been a bit too aggressive. Could chattering > result from a too aggressive burr? > My understanding is that the blade should not make contact with the wood when the thumbscrew is loose. Tightening the screw puts an arc in the scraper and pushes it below the plane of the sole. Thus the scraper blade contacts the wood and the depth of cut is tapered to zero before the corner of the blade can touch the wood. This way you have no ridges dug into the wood as you scrape. The chattering results from too much blade depth. You can't push down hard enough to keep the scaper blade in the wood, and the sole lifts off the surface, creating chatter as it bounces along the board. IMHO, reset the depth of the blade so it doesn't scrape when the thumbscrew is loose. I usually turn the screw half of a turn to scrape, more or less. WOODWORK magazine published an informative article by Tom Caspar about the #80 in Feb. 97. Good luck. Scraping by in Syracuse, NY Erik von Sneidern ---- Start of Message 43014 (thread 19030) ---- From: Larry Poffenberger Date: 1998-05-10 13:41:00 Subject: Re: #80 cabinet scraper question At 12:05 AM 5/10/98 -0400, Hal Laurent wrote: Snippage here >I had a bit of a problem with chattering on some of the wood, >although it could pretty much be overcome by changing the >direction of scraping and by skewing the scraper. I *did* >notice that the chattering became less of a problem if I >loosened the screw that bends the blade (sorry, I don't know >its correct name :-). In fact, the scraper seemed to work >best if the blade was not bent in the middle at all. > >This kind of makes me think that perhaps the burr on the >blade might have been a bit too aggressive. Could chattering >result from a too aggressive burr? Hi Y'all, I like to work burled walnut and have found that the only tool that will work some areas is the humble #80. I say humble because they are so inexpensive and do such a d**n good job, IMHO. I think the adjustment (don't know what it is called, either) depends a lot on the grain and hardness of the piece. Different situations call for different adjustments. The burr seems to be almost a go/nogo situation, in my experience. It either works very well or very poorly or not at all. I also find that I must skew the tool to get the result I want. And, on highly figured wood, change directions frequently. I finally came to the conclusion that I would like to plane or scrape in one direction because it is easier, but figured wood just ain't made that way. I saw a video by on old timer that explained how you had to skew a plane and come from different directions. He then proceeded to demonstrate this technique by planing very fast while he walked around the piece. Unbelievable what this guy could do with a plane. I always felt after that, that similar techniques were necessary for scrapers. Sorry, I can't remember his name. The bottom line is, to get to Carnegie Hall you have to... Regards, Larry EMAIL: LKP@R... HOME PAGE: HTTP://WWW.RUSTYTOOL.CNCHOST.COM Shortcut to my Links: http://www.rustytool.cnchost.com/index.shtml#rustytools_links ---- Start of Message 43017 (thread 19030) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-10 17:16:00 Subject: Re: #80 cabinet scraper question Bill Brady said: >I'm hoping hat practice makes perfect. So far my best "scraper" is my L-N >62. Ooh, ooh, are you using it with a steep cutting angle? I've been curious to know how it would perform with higher cutting angles like an infill smoother. Andres ---- Start of Message 43021 (thread 19030) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-10 22:28:00 Subject: Re: #80 cabinet scraper question asender@n... Wrote: >Ooh, ooh, are you using it with a steep cutting angle? I've been curious >to know how it would perform with higher cutting angles like an infill >smoother. > >Andres I assume you are asking about the L-N 62. No, I use it at a lower cutting angle. It has a 20 degree bevel with a 5 degree back bevel. (I forget what it was originally). Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ++++ End of thread 19030 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19031 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43006 (thread 19031) ---- From: Ian McKinley Date: 1998-05-09 23:26:00 Subject: More Stone Musing Hi Bill Thanks for the input. The main reason I posted this excerpt from "Audels" is that it is the best _old_ reference on the identification of the grades of stones known as Washita and Arkansas that I have found. I did some followup research in mineral guides and came up with a sightly different understanding on the subject. At 09:46 AM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Just having aquired three beautiful Arkansas stones courtesy of Kieth >Degrau, I read this string closely and have some contrasting observations >to share. > >The stones would have to fall in one of the three groups of rock forming >minerals, silica, corundum or quartz. > "Silica" def. silicon dioxide, the material of which quartz is made "Quartz" def. clear hard glass-like trigonal crystals of pure silica "Corundum" def. aluminum oxide crystals As you can see by the defination quartz is made from silica. Also it is the only oxide of silicon and has the power of combining with itself and other minerals to produce a number of silicates. They produce a large number of rocks with various properties. >First, Arkansas stones test harder than silica. I rubbed a piece of glass >with a stone.. it scratched the glass. (glass is pure silica). Quartz has >a hardness of 7, tool steel (files) 5, silica is also about 5 with some >naturally occuring silicates going to 6 1/2 or 7. > "Glass" formed by fusion of silica or oxides of boron or phosphours with a flux and a stabilizer into a mass that cools to a rigid condition without crystallization As you can see by the definition glass is not pure silica as it has been modified by man. >I believe that Arkansas stones are cryptocrystalline quartz. (snip) >I've seen Arkansas stones called novaculite. Novaculite seems to be >silica that has been metamorphasized into microcrystalline quartz. It >also called a "bedded chert". "Cryptocrystalline" having a crystalline structure so fine that no distinct particles are recognizable under the microscope "Microcrystalline" a crystal visible only under the microscope "Novaculite" a very hard fine-grained siliceous rock used for whetstones and possibly of sedimentary origin (from L. novacula meaning razor) Sence the crystalline structure of the Arkansas stones can be seen under the microscope it cannot be cryptocrystalline but must be microcrystalline. This trip into minerals and rocks is interesting but my original post was intended to help Alan identify a stone. I hope he hasn't gotten lost in all this. 8-) Ian ---- Start of Message 43009 (thread 19031) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-10 09:38:00 Subject: Re: More Stone Musing I did ramble in that message. My point was that most natural silicates are softer than quartz, corundum is harder but more brittle and that Arkansas stones last a long time. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ++++ End of thread 19031 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19032 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43007 (thread 19032) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-10 07:09:00 Subject: Re: Marking gages At 6:14 PM 5/9/98, Steve Reynolds wrote: [snip] >what are you galoots doing for user marking gages? Wull...I have accumulated a few here and there, but my favorite is one I made meseff. Hey, if the making of Gunterman shaves is spreading across the land, why not try a gauge? You've probably got the wood parts in your scrap box. All it takes is a stick and a block. Chopping the through mortise in the latter will be good experience. (Tip: work from each side into the center, to avoid splitting out and keep it perpendicular to the face.) For a screw-type tightener for the block, get a brass threaded insert at the hardware store. This is the thingy used in the corner joints of chair seats and the like. I used the size that screws into a 3/8" hole, and has inside threads to receive a 3/16" machine screw--also brass, for a classy look. With this method you don't need special equipment for cutting tiny threads in wood. I cut off the head of the screw and replaced it with a flat thumbscrew knob made out of the same cherry scrap the rest of the gauge is made from, epoxied to the brass screw, also for looks. Use sandpaper to slightly round off the end of the screw that touches the arm, to reduce marring. (I imbedded the brass extender from a trashed zig-zag rule in a slot along the surface the tightener screw engages, to serve as both wear strip and rough measuring scale, but that's not essential.) The beam or arm is just a stick in square profile, trimmed to fit the mortise. Cut a slot in the business end, about an inch deep. drill a small hole at the inside end of the slot, to relieve stress and reduce the chance of splitting it out. About 1/2" from the end, ie, midway along the slot, drill another hole, slightly smaller than the marking pin. For the pin, use a broken twist drill from your scraps of that kind. (You save all your broken twist drills for this purpose, of course.) Sharpen it in the form of a "half-moon" slitter, rather than a point, for use both with and cross grain. I fitted in a teeny little brass stove bolt, with nut, across the arm in front of the slitter to squeeze the slot up and secure the pin, but I don't thing that should be essential. You could also use a broken piece of knife blade, even one snapped off the edge of a disposable utility knife or hacksaw blade (use safety glasses when snapping!), fixed into the arm with a small wedge. The point is, you'll want something of hard tool steel, not just any old nail, for a clean line and durability. Those who have done it know there's a certain satisfaction in using a tool you've made yourself, and this one is not all that hard and requires no exotic castings or blades. Go for it. Tom Holloway ++++ End of thread 19032 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19033 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43010 (thread 19033) ---- From: Phil and Debbie Koontz Date: 1998-05-10 06:30:00 Subject: Back to virtuallity GGs-- Well, I've been off the wire for several days, and none too happy about it. Tuesday night, just as I was getting ready to send a batch of mail (sorry guys, to the treadle lathe short list), I heard a loud pop from the storm outside and simultaneusly from the phone next to me. Funny thing, though. When I took my machine in to Bubba Gump's Tatoo Parlour and Geek Emporium for repairs, the guy (Bubba's little brother, Pencilneck, does the computer work--you can just guess what his nickname is. But I digress.), claimed that he had never seen a hand cranked computer before. Fortunately, the MofA had some NOS parts for the original Millers Falls no. 80486C bench model two speed computer, and it worked out fine. While I was waiting, I got some shop work done (a nice back saw from one of Eddie Sirotich's kits--it's gonna be beautiful); and with the new mother board and hard drive, I got a free tatoo. Tastefully lettered across my butt now is "Stanley #6C, my sweetheart". Missed you guys and gals. Phil Koontz And no, you can't see it. ++++ End of thread 19033 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19034 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43012 (thread 19034) ---- From: Geoff Roehm Date: 1998-05-10 13:06:00 Subject: Re: Friday story/ the non-electric table saw - The electric version Much snippage re: buzz saws >>The point of this little story is whether the old tractor-powered table >>saw is worth saving from the scrap heap. O > Actually, there are a number of folks around that do acquire >such things. -------------------------------- Some people have actually had the temerity to _build_ such things. I recall a couple of intrepid Galoots who did that very thing several years ago. The "idea" stemmed from an Australian rip-sawing version, consisting of a sulky-like carriage upon which the operator (deviant) sat, and what looked like a 48" circle blade attached vertically in front. The saw was guided through the log lengthwise using handlebars for "steering." These guys figured that if the Aussies could do something like that (read: dangerous and stupid), they could too. (Apologies in advance to all intelligent, hard- working, and sensible Australians.) They extracted a '68 Dodge truck frame from the weeds, suspended it like a huge pendulum on a 3" shaft from 8 x 8 supports, and mounted a 3-phase 30 hp. electric motor. The blade was a 32" buzz saw blade, belt driven, and totally unguarded. It resembled the result of mating a trebuchet (sp?) with a huge electric can opener. This contraption would cut a railroad tie in about 1.5 seconds. As the wonder of the achievement began to wear off, the inventors finally decided to dismantle the thing, realizing that human limbs would inevitably be severed, too. -Geoff Tennessee ++++ End of thread 19034 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19035 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43013 (thread 19035) ---- From: Dan Miller <5lakes@i...> Date: 1998-05-10 13:36:00 Subject: Galoot Boatbuilding Hi all, I've just put W.P. Stephens' classic text "Canoe and Boatbuilding for Amateurs" on the web. Point your browser to: http://www.paddlin.com/fivelakes/stephens/ It was published at the turn of the century, and is essential reading for anyone interested in canoe and small boat construction. Even if you are not interested in boatbuilding, you might want to take a look at the tools and materials chapter just to see the list of recommended tools and their prices. Enjoy, Dan --- Daniel Miller - 5lakes@i... Five Lakes Wooden Boat Center http://www.paddlin.com/fivelakes/canoe.htm "So many boats, so little time..." ++++ End of thread 19035 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19036 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43015 (thread 19036) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-10 11:25:00 Subject: Spring Curly Maple SALE-A-THON Galoots: I posted a FS during the last FMM for the upcoming maple sale. I waited several days and it must have been devoured by the quirky list, as I haven't seen it posted yet. I contacted Odeen (list Mom), and he assured me that it was OK to do a repost. The 2d annual Spring Curly Maple SALE-A-THON will be held on the weekend of 13,14 June at our location in Lycoming County, PA. For complete instructions on how to get here from where ever you're at, as well as learn about all our current inventory, I invite you to visit http://www.curlymaple.com In addition, in the true spirit of a sale, we are offering the following discounts to our already low prices on our 4/4 curly maple. They are based on the amount you buy and are as follows: $0-300 5% off $301-500 10% off $501-700 15% off $701-1000 20% off $1000 and up 25% off The discounts apply to any 4/4 curly maple, hard or soft purchased at the sale or ordered by mail during the month of June. We look forward to seeing you there. Pete Taran ___________________________________________________________________________ Pete Taran 2493 Foust Hill Road Hughesville, PA 17737-9403 (717) 584-6440 Voice (717) 584-6439 Fax Proprietor of Independence Tool, maker of high quality dovetail saws. Check out our webpage at http://www.intool.com ___________________________________________________________________________ ++++ End of thread 19036 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19037 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43016 (thread 19037) ---- From: Russ Ellsworth Date: 1998-05-10 15:57:00 Subject: Trevor Robinson e-mail address Well, I ordered my first sawset....Trevor Robinson shipped it on trust...USPS delivered it...I love it ! !..Now I have lost Trevor's e-mail address which was in the original message which also had the price etc...etc. Trevor, if you see this please e-mail me...everyone else, please excuse the bandwidth. Happy Mothers Day ! Russ Ellsworth Boise Idaho ++++ End of thread 19037 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19038 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43018 (thread 19038) ---- From: D & B Brown Date: 1998-05-10 18:07:00 Subject: Weekend results & chisel ID GGs, Unfortunately the finds over the 2 day period do not rate a "gloat". Actually I found 3 chisels. One of which I'm very curious about, because it is a local (So. Cal.) maker who I've never heard of (which means nada). The chisel in question is a very old style tang-type, this one being 1 1/2". It has a fairly clear stamping on the top that reads as follows: GUARANTEE ENTZ & RUCKER LOS ANGELES I would appreciate any info anyone can provide on this maker. Thanks, David Brown ++++ End of thread 19038 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19039 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43019 (thread 19039) ---- From: Bob O Tool Date: 1998-05-10 15:52:00 Subject: 41 Ford Pickup To all those who took time to answer my inquiry Regarding replacing the wooden bed on a 1941 Ford pickup truck, THANKS so much. Some Answered personally, and some on the Porch.. I didn't get back right away as we all had to Stop & Shop on FMM. Anyway it looks like White oak was the wood of choice to be used. I'm going back for another look at this truck this Week, and now that I have some insight on fixing The biggest problem. I cant wait for another look at It. Usually I can't get woodworking and old tools Out of my head, now it's this old truck ! It is certainly rewarding to have a place like the Porch To turn to when you need some help ! Thanks again To everyone. Sincerely Bob Hall ++++ End of thread 19039 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19040 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43022 (thread 19040) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-10 22:30:00 Subject: Galooting in PA. Item Subject: Text Item GGs, Visited w/ Tony Seo and his FU on Saturday. Discussed plan for tool ambush. As PA is doing performance art on "Life In Seattle" Tony decided to bow out due to the likely cancellation of all outdoor flea activities. He were right. Got up and started sifting at the Black Ox at 5:30, no field of dreams action there or at Reniger or Schups Grove. DANG! Had to content myself w/ 30-40 dealers not the anticipated 600. VERY little for tools to be seen. As this is tool haven, I had to switch to trolling at normal Antique shops. I did pick up 4 Denisons, of which NONE were needed H&Rs. Picked up a Disston saw vise of wondrous construction. Thing has MASSIVE jaws and frame. Picked up a couple of stones that I have questions about. Stone one- very light gray, cuts aggressive, will form a -slurry- in use (w/ water, says to use water on the box) Stone two- light gray, seems a bit harder. Will form slurry. This is mounted in a hunk of oak that has two cutouts in the bottom. Like a two arched bridge. Dealer said it was made -fancy- as I was using it the hotel it cam to me that they were just right for putting across your knees. Holds the stone perpendicular to your thigh bone. Seems to work O.K. that way. Stone three- Med. gray. HEAVY! Thing is a HUNK. 10-1/2x2x1-1/4" This thing is VERY hard and forms no slurry in use, cuts slow and fine. As I have mostly manmade stones, any help on IDing these, maybe the famous Arkansas xx? Bruce Drying out in Philly. Any good tool places near down town?? ---- Start of Message 43024 (thread 19040) ---- From: Jack Kamishlian Date: 1998-05-11 01:32:00 Subject: Re: Galooting in PA. Bruce. Stone three may be a soft Arkansas. I got a couple, but not quite that large. If it is, then it sure is a keeper. I use mine with honing oil - helps to keep the pores of the stone from getting clogged up and floats away the dust. Cheers, Jack Who's recovering from a back problem and cataract operation. But -- I'm back. BRUCE_VANSLOUN@H... wrote: > > Stone three- Med. gray. HEAVY! Thing is a HUNK. 10-1/2x2x1-1/4" > This thing is VERY hard and forms no slurry in use, cuts slow and > fine. > ---- Start of Message 43031 (thread 19040) ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 1998-05-11 13:11:00 Subject: Re: Galooting in PA. At 06:30 PM 5/10/98 -0400, BRUCE_VANSLOUN@H... wrote: > GGs, > > Visited w/ Tony Seo and his FU on Saturday. Discussed plan for tool > ambush. As PA is doing performance art on "Life In Seattle" Tony > decided to bow out due to the likely cancellation of all outdoor flea > activities. He were right. Got up and started sifting at the Black The weather around here, just plain sucks, we have had rain 10 out of the past 11 days, and it has rained every Sunday, expect for Easter, since the beginning of April. By the end of Oct, I'm usually ready for break from the weekly flea market banzi, but now that it's supposed to be here, I'm suffering from withdrawal, big time. Always fun to have people visit, especially when they realize that I am not kidding when I talk about "the pile".. Tony ________________________________________________________ Interesting Pennsylvania town names Blueball, PA ________________________________________________________ ++++ End of thread 19040 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19041 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43023 (thread 19041) ---- From: Garrett Spitzer Date: 1998-05-10 22:38:00 Subject: Stanley #34, c1929 catalogue I would be interested in hearing from anyone else with a Stanley #34, c1929 catalogue (5/1/30 edition); this is the one with the supplemental section. Walters says that it should be 208 pages, but mine is only 204. It does not appear that any pages have been torn out; so I am wondering if I have a variation or if there is a misprint in Walters. Thanks for any help. Regards, Garrett ++++ End of thread 19041 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19042 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43025 (thread 19042) ---- From: TomPrice Date: 1998-05-10 23:15:00 Subject: Hasluck 'Handyman's Book' GLOAT Esteemed Galoots, I was down to North Carolina this weekend visiting some of SWMBO's relatives. We drove out of Fayetteville without hitting any of the flea markets since they were not on the way to I95. I didn't bother stopping at the antique malls off of I95 since various Galoots have reported these places to be a waste of time. We took US 50 through Annapolis, over the Bay Bridge and, since I felt an urgent call of nature, stopped at the outlet mall at Queenstown, MD. SWMBO hit the Bass Shoe outlet and I eventually ended up in the Book Warehouse. Tum-te-tum...let's see, here's a CD of Alan Lomax's field recordings in Scotland...Cool...OK, what's in the woodworking section...some copies of Bealer's woodworking book...got that one...well lookee here! Right in front of me are 5 copies of 'The Handyman's Book' by Paul Hasluck. In softcover for $11.99 per! Wow, Richard Wilson is right. This book, originally published in 1903, is serious Galoot reading at 760 pages. I had enough cash for two copies, one for me and one for Steve Reynolds because I figured he'd drool all over my copy anyway. Evidently, these are being remaindered and some copies have found their way over here. The 'Book Warehouse' might also be the same as the 'Book Cellar' stores. The same chain has a store in the big outlet mall in Rehobeth, DE. I think there are other stores in Jersey and Virginia. In any event, the store in the outlet mall in Queenstown (on 301, right after the 50/301 split) has three copies left in case any nearby Galoots are interested. Gentlemen, start your engines. Cool! Ten pages on tool chests... **************************** Tom Price Brakes For Rust The Flea Market Tactical Primer is featured at The Galoot's Progress: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html ++++ End of thread 19042 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19043 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43026 (thread 19043) ---- From: William H. Fissell Date: 1998-05-11 02:15:00 Subject: #3 gloat, 112 question Greetings... A few FMMs ago, I bought a $23 #3 type ?8 from Garrett, and when it arrived I dutifully checked that it was in fact an iron plane and put it on the shelf next to the other hulks. This weekend I SS'ed the blade, put on a temporary replacement tote, adjusted the frog to *my* liking, ie exactly where it was, and test drove it. It smoothed some ugly curly cherry (PL can testify to its curls) with only minor tearout at the toughest parts, and then nicely took five consecutive 6'2" shavings off of the edge of another piece of cherry. Note that my $50.00 12-205 can't even do 8". Needs Viagra, I guess. Any $23 tool that works that well is okay in my book :-) Thanks, Garrett. On another note, I used a true-grey 112 to smooth off the curly cherry, and I noticed when I use it on curly maple, it leaves a slight skid mark, as if I had wiped newsprint on the wood. Any suggestions on how to fix that, without re-lapping the sole, which has a pit or two? thanks, Bill Fissell GIT at 31 ++++ End of thread 19043 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19044 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43028 (thread 19044) ---- From: Paul Pedersen Date: 1998-05-11 11:42:00 Subject: Complex moulder questions On the weekend I came across a complex moulder made by S.Dalpe (Roxton Pond, Quebec) interestingly with a serrated, embossed mark. All other Dalpe's I've seen (lots) had simply incuse letters so I'm assuming this one is pretty old. The plane has the following profile : | | | __ | | / __| | / | _| | __ | | / | | / |/ |___| bead fillet cove bead >From Whelan, based on the facts that there is part of the profile higher than the right side of the plane and the right-most flat is part of the cut (and not a depthstop) I learn that this is probably a "Bead with Fillet Opposite Cove and Bead", whose purpose is to make bolection mouldings. (see p.278) Whelan's example, taken from a Jon.Weiss & Sohn (Austria) 1909 catalog is the same except the right-most flat part extends much further downward, as in : | | | __ | | / | | / | | | _| | | | __ | | | | / | |_| | / |/ |___| bead fillet cove bead What is the purpose of the flat part ? Is it just to cut a groove in which will track a rip saw when the moulding is cut off a wider piece ? Will Whelan's version simply cut a deeper groove for this and mine a shallower one ? Or is the groove part of the moulding : in which case where does the moulding end ? It's not impossible that this part was cut off on my specimen, but the sole colour there is the same as the rest so it was done a long time ago if it was. My plane's right-most bead is much more of an ovolo (really a reverse-scotia if such a thing exists) since the round part is not circular but of varying curvature. The specimen I found also had an attached depthstop as in : | | | |__ | | | | | | <-- applied depth stop | | | | __ |__| | / __| | / | _| | __ | | / | | / |/ |___| bead fillet cove bead turning the whole plane into a Quirk Bead, Cove and Bead, (p.250) but with a pretty square quirk. Can someone tell me where this moulding is usually found on furniture ? Anything special about cutting bolection mouldings as opposed to regular ones ? Thanks, Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) ++++ End of thread 19044 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19045 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43029 (thread 19045) ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 1998-05-11 12:11:00 Subject: wood ID question Good Morning GG's, I don't know if you remember, but this is about an early eggbeater. It's either Millers Falls or somebody took a Millers frame, used it as a pattern and cast it in brass and then machined it and finally nickled it (adding a Millers Falls chuck). I'm leaning toward original Millers as this would be a powerful PIA to save a couple of bucks, even in 1900. So, the drill was missing it's large handle. I didn't have a rosewood spare. Thanks to Randy's MF homepage I could see what the original handle was supposed to look like. I made one in my own favorite pattern, but the proportional size is correct. (thanks Randy) And now, finally, to my question. I had this wood that somebody sold to my mom as rosewood. It's almost heavy enough, almost hard enough. It smells like rosewood when it's cut. The color is closer to koa. Much lighter in color than anything I've ever known as rosewood, but that smell? Is this padouk? I never had any of that either. Thanks Scott -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * scottg@s... PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ ---- Start of Message 43030 (thread 19045) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-11 13:00:00 Subject: Re: wood ID question scott grandstaff Wrote: >I had this wood that somebody sold to my mom as rosewood. It's almost >heavy enough, almost hard enough. It smells like rosewood when it's cut. >The color is closer to koa. Much lighter in color than anything I've >ever known as rosewood, but that smell? > Is this padouk? I never had any of that either. Scott, I have read that there are many species that are called "rosewood". Its not a specific term. Also, rosewood is so named because of the smell. So if it smells like rosewood, I'd say it's rosewood. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 43039 (thread 19045) ---- From: Stephan Patnaude Date: 1998-05-11 14:40:00 Subject: Re: wood ID question Scott, Bill, All true rosewoods are all Dalbergia something or other. The color goes from black (african blackwood, Dalbergia Melanoxylon) to almost pure cream (low grade tulipwood, Dalbergia fruitescens). In between you have browns,reds, oranges, purples and combinations of all of the above. They all share that same characteristic smell. What you describe sounds like Indian rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia). I have a light colored piece of this and a piece of koa sitting in front of me. Pretty similar. FWIW, a nice dark piece of cocobolo (Dalbergia Retusa) for your handle should run you about 2 or 3 bucks. If you cannot find any, drop me an address and I'll send you some. This goes for anyone interested in some coco scrap for a tote, knob, handle, whatever. - Stephan ---- Start of Message 43056 (thread 19045) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-11 17:07:00 Subject: Re: wood ID question I too have some of Toms rosewood , and have shown it to a local tool dealer, we made some shavings and he said that that particular piece was not rosewood , prolly kingswood. he then removed a knob from a stanley plane and scraped the bottom with a knife and it had much more aroma, and was sweeter smelling, my .oo4 cents Aaron scott grandstaff wrote: > > Good Morning GG's, > I don't know if you remember, but this is about an early eggbeater. > It's either Millers Falls or somebody took a Millers frame, used it as a > pattern and cast it in brass and then machined it and finally nickled it > (adding a Millers Falls chuck). I'm leaning toward original Millers as > this would be a powerful PIA to save a couple of bucks, even in 1900. > So, the drill was missing it's large handle. I didn't have a rosewood > spare. Thanks to Randy's MF homepage I could see what the original > handle was supposed to look like. I made one in my own favorite pattern, > but the proportional size is correct. (thanks Randy) > And now, finally, to my question. > I had this wood that somebody sold to my mom as rosewood. It's almost > heavy enough, almost hard enough. It smells like rosewood when it's cut. > The color is closer to koa. Much lighter in color than anything I've > ever known as rosewood, but that smell? > Is this padouk? I never had any of that either. > Thanks > Scott > -- > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * > scottg@s... > PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 19045 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19046 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43032 (thread 19046) ---- From: Gary P. Johns Date: 1998-05-11 13:20:00 Subject: Got one Finished! GG's This heer's a drive through gloat. I FINISHED A PROJECT!!! Point your browsers to: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9147/table.html So it only took me a year. That's pretty good time these days! Gary Johns OldTool Heaven "RustHunter" http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9147 ++++ End of thread 19046 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19047 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43033 (thread 19047) ---- From: Roger Birkhead Date: 1998-05-11 13:34:00 Subject: Mortise chisel handle wood Just wanted to get an opinion on something from the group. I have gotten a few pigsticker mortise chisels (thanks Stan and Chris), but they all need handles. I don't have a lathe, and currently only have a picnic table in the front yard for a bench, so I am leaning toward simple octagonal handles. I have two choices for wood though: nice straight grained seasoned hickory, or hard heavy slightly wavy live oak. Anybody have any thoughts as to which will be best. A part of me says not to use the hickory because it isso nice and straight grained the tang may split it. BTW, I plan to put a leather washer between the handle and the bolster. Thanks, Roger B. ---- Start of Message 43035 (thread 19047) ---- From: BRUCE KANTELIS Date: 1998-05-11 13:48:00 Subject: RE: Mortise chisel handle wood BIG EDIT > I have gotten a few pigsticker mortise chisels (thanks Stan and > Chris), but > they all need handles. I don't have a lathe, and > grained seasoned hickory, or hard heavy slightly wavy live oak. Anybody >From personal experience, live oak is wonderful. Hard to work but great. As for fitting the tang, be sure to use a copper or brass ring (I use brass plumbing bits). Drill a hole 1/8 longer than the tang with a bit just a hair smaller than the tip of the tang. Follow with a hole 1/2 depth with a bit the width on the midpoint of the tang. No, you do not have to heat the tang, contrary to other opinion. Just start the handle doen the tang (do not forget the ring) and turn it, like you are screwing it on, this will scrape the hole to shape. When you get 1/2 way, back it out and knock off the scrapings. Then continue until you are 1/4" from being done. Stop turning the handle on and drive it home the last 1/4". It is easy clean and solid. If you have a drawknife and or spokeshave and a rasp you can make nice handles without a lathe. Regards, Bruce Kantelis ---- Start of Message 43048 (thread 19047) ---- From: Don Berry Date: 1998-05-11 15:53:00 Subject: Re: Mortise chisel handle wood Roger wants advice on making handles for pigstickers... I've got a couple of pigstickers I've been intending to re-handle for a while... since the usual handle is oval in cross section, I was just planning on using a piece of a hickory handle from a broken sledge hammer. New handles can be found for <$10 at most hardware stores, and would yield several chisel handles. I'd probably skip the leather bolster, but make sure you have good contact between the end of the handle and the steel shoulder. IMO, this is quite unlike making handles for your typical socket chisels, where you want the taper to take all the force (compresses the handle), and you typically don't want the end of the socket to contact the handle. Good luck, Don ++++ End of thread 19047 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19048 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43034 (thread 19048) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-11 09:00:00 Subject: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools Folks: One of the beneficial side effects of people knowing about my addic..., uh, obsess..., uh, interest in old tools is that they occasionally ask me to come lookit a pile of rust for them. Over the weekend, my friend Kathy asked me to come over and dig through a box of tools that were purported to have been her grandfather's. Her grandpa was a farmer. In amongst the various and sundry cr*p (barbeque tongs, bent rusty auger bits, shoeshine brush. . .) were a few nice tools, including a Witherby drawknife with adjustable handles, a PS &W brace, and a Yankee #30 (pre-Satanly) all in real nice condition. There were also a few that I'm not sure about, and would beg the indulgence of the Porch for some help identifying, dating, and otherwise providing info about them. I'm guessing they might be leather working tools, as at least one definitely is, but I'm not sure. I'm saddled (pun intended) with a Neanderthal computer, so scans and links aren't possible, so I'll do the best I can with descriptions. Here goes: Whatsit #1: Are a pair of shears, all metal, with triangular blades that taper from 2" to a point over 5 1/2". The blades are welded to a metal handles that are attached at the end in a sort of cupid's bow affair that provides spring back to an open position. O.A.L. 12". Each blade is marked, so you can see a mark no matter which side you're looking at. One mark is football shaped, three lines: " BALL BROTHERS SONS OF PATENTED SHEFFIELD The other mark is the word "SUCCESS" within the blade of a sabre sword, with "BALL BROTHERS" underneath. The most amazing part is, with them unused for ? years, and still covered with rust, they cut right through anything we had handy there in the basement. Whatsit #2: A knife, curved both along its edge and along its length (so it would make a hollowing cut). OAL about 9", blade 3 1/2"x 7/8", same width whole length, with the end of the blade rolled back over toward the handle to form a sort of tightly curled gouge. The handle is bone or horn, affixed with two rivets. The blade is marked: WORTH B.WORTH AND SONS *UTLERS, SHEFFIELD ENG. Whatsit #3: Leather shave (heel shave?)- the travisher looking deal. It's marked "Snell & Atherton, OED 6", and a star on the blade, and has an adjustable shoe in front of the blade. I've seen these around, and seem to recall someone saying they can be used as a travisher- anyone have any experience with this? Are they handy for woodworking or not? Whatsit #4: This one looks like a cross between a shave and a beader. If you hold it so you're cutting on a pull stroke, the right handle is larger and comes from the bottom of the "body", the left handle is smaller and comes from the top of the "body", about an inch higher. The blade is convex along both its length and width to make a hollowing cut, is 5/8" wide and 1 1/4" long, and oriented more or less horizontally. The blade is marked "I.P.HYDE". There is an adjustable front shoe for depth of cut and a tiny fence to adjust width. Actually, this seems more like a heel shave than #3, to me. So, thanks for listening, if you're still with me. Any help is appreciated, and will help Kathy and I better understand Gramps. It was fun anyway, and Kathy's husband Tim (who, mind you, has helped build at least four barns and a house) said "I learned more about tools in an hour today than I had in my whole life before this." And he clearly doesn't understand just how little I know. Take it slow. Lorn ---- Start of Message 43041 (thread 19048) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-11 14:56:00 Subject: Re: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools At 9:00 AM 5/11/98, GINGRICH.LORN_C+@A... wrote: [for some ID help] > Whatsit #1: Are a pair of shears These are surely sheep shearing shears (say that fast 6 times). > > Whatsit #2: A knife, curved both along its edge As Paul Coppinger has reported, this is a farrier's knife, for cleaning and trimming various parts of a horse's hoof. Tom Holloway ---- Start of Message 43059 (thread 19048) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 17:20:00 Subject: RE: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools GINGRICH.LORN wrote: > Whatsit #1: Are a pair of shears, all metal, with triangular > blades that taper from 2" to a point over 5 1/2". Get a sheep and shear the wool off with these. I see them all the time here in CO. They are kinda nifty aren't they? - Bill ---- Start of Message 43070 (thread 19048) ---- From: Dave Wolverton Date: 1998-05-11 21:05:00 Subject: Re: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools GINGRICH.LORN_C+@A... wrote: > > Whatsit #3: Leather shave (heel shave?)- the travisher looking > deal. It's marked "Snell & Atherton, OED 6", and a star on the blade, and > has an adjustable shoe in front of the blade. I've seen these around, and > seem to recall someone saying they can be used as a travisher- anyone have > any experience with this? Are they handy for woodworking or not? > > Whatsit #4: This one looks like a cross between a shave and a > beader. If you hold it so you're cutting on a pull stroke, the right > handle is larger and comes from the bottom of the "body", the left handle > is smaller and comes from the top of the "body", about an inch higher. > The blade is convex along both its length and width to make a hollowing > cut, is 5/8" wide and 1 1/4" long, and oriented more or less horizontally. > The blade is marked "I.P.HYDE". There is an adjustable front shoe for > depth of cut and a tiny fence to adjust width. Actually, this seems more > like a heel shave than #3, to me. Lorn, Yes, these are both leather working tools. I always get the names mixed up on these doohickies, so I won't even attempt to name them. AFAIK, SNELL & ATHERTON only produced leatherworking tools, so that is the easy clue for #3. (I've never heard an explanation for what OED stands for, though.) I have a couple of your #4s. I think (from memory) one of them is unmarked and the other is marked SNELL or SNELL & ATHERTON. The blade on yours sounds a bit larger than the ones on mine. dave -- Dave Wolverton Lucent Technologies, Holmdel, NJ Email: dwolverton@l... Phone: (732) 949-1125 ---- Start of Message 43083 (thread 19048) ---- From: Cylkowski&Broman Date: 1998-05-11 23:21:00 Subject: Re: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools > Whatsit #1: Are a pair of shears, all metal, with triangular > blades that taper from 2" to a point over 5 1/2". (snip, hack, gash...) Almost sounds like sheep shears......I've seen some older ones that fit that description....and boy do they cut Dave Broman whose SWMBO is a wool spinner.......hey, I learn by osmosis ++++ End of thread 19048 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19049 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43036 (thread 19049) ---- From: Paul Coppinger Date: 1998-05-11 15:51:00 Subject: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools Whatsit #2-Sounds like a frog knife for cleaning the frog of horses hooves. I have one made by my grandad that is identical. Best regards. Paul Coppinger cop@t... ++++ End of thread 19049 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19050 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43037 (thread 19050) ---- From: Patrick Colbeck Date: 1998-05-11 14:01:00 Subject: Any info on my first two gloats Reply-To: Hi Well I have picked up my first too flea market bargains (I think). The first is a Stanley #4 I got for £7. Its got 99% of the jappaning and no marks on the sole. Its marked Stanley Bailey 4 on the front of the sole and made in England on the back, the jappaning is black and the handles have lost all their varnish but when I took one off to clean it the varnish where it had run underneath was a deep red colour. Can I date this using the on line Stanley dater or does that only work with USA made planes ?. The second and more interesting tool is a brass backed tenon saw. Its marled on the back Slack Sellars & Co with a little picture of a bird with "speed" written under it. There is also a button/medal (not sure what to call it) with the same on the handle. The guy selling it said he was a retired carpentewr and he bought it in 1945 for £1 which was quite a lot of money back then. The saw is very clean and straight but needs topping and sharpening.Has anyone heard of this company and if so what quality their saws were, it feels really nice and is very heavy compared to any other saw I have held (its the first brass backed saw I have had) ? Well all I need now are some chisles and a rebate plane and I can start my first project which is going to be a toolbox, a very simple toolbox infact a very very simple toolbox. Pat (who is in a state of shock after seeing the amazing toolboxes in The Toolbox book) ++++ End of thread 19050 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19051 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43040 (thread 19051) ---- From: Rodgers Charles Date: 1998-05-11 14:49:00 Subject: I MADE SOMETHING! Galoots: Executive summary: I made two file handles. Long version: Contrary to SWMBO's observations, I made something this weekend. And it was something that I NEEDED. Honest. After spending an hour Friday evening looking for my camera tripod, I finally got pictures of Rob Kempinski's 51/52 castings. I wanted to get shots of them before I butche... smoothed them. Pictures taken, I took file in hand (mill bastard) and started working the left cheek (top, non-critical surface when the plane is in action). It took a total of about 3 strokes to realize that I'd never make it without a handle on the tang. Sez I, "I can make one". Scrounging thru the wood scraps, I found a 12" long piece of Legna, a.k.a. Patagonian Cherry (thanks, Stu Ritter). As I don't yet have my beater #4-sized Diamond Edge scrub conversion finished, I grabbed another #4 (I have 3, but I'm NOT a c*ll*ct*r) and scrubbed both faces and one edge. This stuff is really nice to work!! Then I planed one face smooth, grabbed my #7, flattened the face and jointed one edge (even I can could see when it was square to the face - amazing). I didn't need to do this, but as someone's sig sez about making it to Carneige Hall (practice). Smoothed & flattened the other face, and marked out a blank with my #55 (March PATINA find). I guessed at about 1-1/4" X 4-1/2". I grabbed Grandaddy Rodgers' skewback Disston D-8 and cut out the blank. Confession time: I strayed here. As I don't have a suitable tanged bit for my spiffy little GP brace, I used the dr*ll pr*ss to drill a hole for the tang. I used a bit that was just a hair under the thickness of the tang, and went almost as deep as I planned to sink the tang. Broke out the propane torch and fired 'er up. Wrapped a wet rag around the file, heated about 1" of the tang evenly, then got the tip cherry red. Pressed it into the blank (clamped to the bench) by hand as far as it would go. Pulled it out and re-heated just the tip to cherry red again. Slipped it back into the blank and drove it home with a few taps from the $1 flea mallet. After cooling, I tested the grip. It's really snug, as I couldn't pull it out. So far, so good. Now the hard part. I figure round at the tang and in the palm. Oval in between, fatter in the middle than the ends. I drew a rough shape with a pencil and took four-in-hand to the task. This is slow. Too slow. Try the #53 spokeshave. This is more like it. Got close and grab the four-in-hand again. Get a little tearout but hey, it's just a tool handle. Once it's close, I take out my trusty rigger's knife (Khyber lockback that saw a lot of service in the Navy). Whittle away what I don't want, including the tearout, then stand the blade on edge scraper-style and smooth it all down. Frequent test fits (grab ahold of it), and it's ready for the finish. Two coats of paste wax and Bob's yer uncle!!! That was so much fun, I did another one for the O-XF file that I was given along with the chain saw (previous gloat). They aren't identical and aren't perfect, but they work. I even finished up the casting cheek in about 30 mins last nite. Old tools used: 2 #4s, #7, #55, D-8, #53. That's about 83% OT. I'm shooting for over 90%, so I'm getting closer) That will have to hold me for a while, as I'm off to New Jersey for the rest of the week. This day job keeps getting in the way. Charlie old blue #104 P.S. That legna is sweet stuff. Really easy to work, nice color, and pretty grain. Now I gotta find a project worthy of the 9' I have left. ++++ End of thread 19051 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19052 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43042 (thread 19052) ---- From: Louis Michaud Date: 1998-05-11 15:09:00 Subject: #92 gage GGs, I don't have access to price guides and I didn't find any for sale at the different web dealers. So, anybody has an idea what would be the price range for a Stanley #92 butt and rabbet gage. Everything fine, has only been lightly used. Thanks. Louis ++++ End of thread 19052 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19053 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43043 (thread 19053) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-11 15:16:00 Subject: Re: wood ID question (+another question) > And now, finally, to my question. > I had this wood that somebody sold to my mom as rosewood. It's almost > heavy enough, almost hard enough. It smells like rosewood when it's cut. > The color is closer to koa. Much lighter in color than anything I've > ever known as rosewood, but that smell? > Is this padouk? I never had any of that either. Well, the rosewood I got from Tom Johnson was all over the map for color. Some so dark it was almost black, some was more of a reddish chocolate color. Some was fairly light, and the sapwood was, of course, very light. This was all purported to be Brazilian rosewood. And of course there are other rosewood types too. So you certainly could have rosewood. But I don't know if there are any definitive identifying characteristics that you could directly use as a is/is not decision. So my added question: Is Hoadley's book, Identifying Wood, a good place to start for the kind of question Scott has? Are there better ones? If it's just a "start" then what comes next? I imagine having a set of wood samples would be a big help, and vaguely remember them being available from somewhere. Anyone have suggestions? And since it's a wood, and not tools, thread, should we take it offline? ++++ End of thread 19053 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19054 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43044 (thread 19054) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-11 15:06:00 Subject: Re: Saw Sharpening Fred: You'll want to contact Tom Law---he's in your neighborhood. At the moment, I don't have his E-Mail or Postal address. --ErvSaws On Mon, 11 May 1998 07:55:05 -0400 "Walker, Fred (OD)" WalkerF@O... writes: >Sorry to bug you with the trivia of the oldtools list, but I am >looking for >someone who can retooth and sharpen an English dovetail saw that I >picked up >recently. I would attempt sharpening, but this really needs more than >I feel >comfortable doing. Can you recommend someone? It would be great to >find >someone in the Baltimore-Washington area, but I realize that beggars >can't be >choosers. Thanks for any help you might be able to give. > >Fred Walker > ---- Start of Message 43047 (thread 19054) ---- From: TomPrice Date: 1998-05-11 11:42:00 Subject: Re: Saw Sharpening Erv wrote: >Fred: You'll want to contact Tom Law---he's in your neighborhood. At >the moment, I don't have his E-Mail or Postal address. >--ErvSaws >On Mon, 11 May 1998 07:55:05 -0400 "Walker, Fred (OD)" >WalkerF@O... writes: >>Sorry to bug you with the trivia of the oldtools list, but I am >>looking for >>someone who can retooth and sharpen an English dovetail saw that I >>picked up >>recently. Contact info for Tom Law is: Tom Law PATINA Member 62 W. Water St. Smithsburg, MD 21783 301-824-5223 Smithsburg is up near Hagerstown. Tom is the fellow that Anatol is doing the saw sharpening video with. I talked to him at the March PATINA meeting and he also does mail order. **************************** Tom Price Brakes For Rust Survival Tips For Beginner Galoots is a feature at The Galoot's Progress: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html ++++ End of thread 19054 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19055 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43045 (thread 19055) ---- From: CHARLIE ZUERCHER Date: 1998-05-11 09:29:00 Subject: weekend gloats and questions Good Monday morning, galoots! Hope you all had a successful weekend. My Saturday was pre-scheduled for me, with lots of entertaining planned in honor of a good friend's graduation from college, so I didn't plan on having any time for OT. Wrong! First, the mail carrier delivered a huge box, turned out to be my FMM purchase - a very nice Type 11 low-knob #7C (corrugated joiner, Jeff) packed beautifully - thanks, Bob. SWMBO took one look at the box, quietly asked what it was, then dutifully oohed and ahhed over it as it emerged. Then, on the way to a social function, I spotted a yard sale sign, and it seemed to beckon to me. Pulled in, and since it was late in the day I didn't expect to see anything left. Walked by an cheap-looking St*nl*y miter box and saw for $50, spotted a brace on a table, then my eye was drawn to the bits - masking taped together groups, that to my uneducated eye looked to be in good shape. I looked at the tips/edges and didn't see any major problems, so I looked at the shanks - Irwin on most of them, assumed that was good, and picked them up, with an Irwin expanding bit with extra blade. Then I spotted another miter box and saw; close examination revealed "C. E. Jennings, New York, USA Cast Steel, Warrented" It was pretty much covered in surface rust, but the saw seemed to have been original to the box (as far as my totally inexperienced eye could tell), and most parts "seemed" to be there, other than one of the holds/guides at the end. I was able to walk away with the bits and the mitre box/saw at what I thought was a good deal. Confession time: I haven't really been paying attention to threads on bits or saws, figuring that I'd be getting into that after I learned more about planes. Wrong! Anyway, would anyone be so kind as to point me in the right direction (archives, or website, or book) on info on Jennings, parts, use, tuning, etc. Don't want to waste bandwidth on things already covered, so private replies would be fine, too. Thanks for your help, Charlie Zuercher ++++ End of thread 19055 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19056 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43049 (thread 19056) ---- From: Stephen York Date: 1998-05-11 16:02:00 Subject: What to do when squares go bad? Actually they were probably bad to begin with. But I am getting ahead of my story. I was busy making a shooting board this weekend (cannot afford a 51/52), based on one in the back of Watson's book on Handtools. Before mounting the strips which hold the stock at 90 degrees, I started checking all my squares for a true 90, by putting them on a straight board, scratching a line, flipping the square and making another line. I was appalled when I found that the squares I had been trusting to be correct were *WAY* out of square. This includes a machinists square from a well known mail order company that has *NEVER* been dropped or mistreated in any way. The funny thing was that the only square that I own that is right on the money is an old Fulton square I pulled out of my Dad's garage. We used that thing on several houses we built, and several more house rehabs. It has bounced around in a toolbox for God knows how long. So is there any way to fix squares that are not? I figure that the adjustable combination sqaures are not fixable, but I was wondering about an old type square with a blade attached to a handle with 3 pins. And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle from a combination square is correct? My high school geometry is getting fuzzy nowadays. I gotta get those 45 degree shooting rails right too! Thanks in advance! Steve BTW - For those who gave me advice on Epoxy, the SystemThree trial kit for 10 dollars was great. The repair went well, and I saved that plane! Tnanks for the good advice! ---- Start of Message 43052 (thread 19056) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-11 16:24:00 Subject: Re: What to do when squares go bad? Stephen York Wrote: >So is there any way to fix squares that are not? I figure that the adjustable >combination sqaures are not fixable, but I was wondering about an old type >square with a blade attached to a handle with 3 pins. One method is to file/lap the blade until it's square. Not an easy task if you are trying for the gnats .... other end. > >And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle >from a combination square is correct? Mark off two 45s, you should end up with a 90. The real problem, however, is all the combination squares I've ever owned are square one time, off the next. I guess it all in the wrist when you set 'em. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 43057 (thread 19056) ---- From: John S. North Date: 1998-05-11 17:07:00 Subject: Re: What to do when squares go bad? Steve - I had the same problem and was able to correct it by using a center punch on the pins. Pound (lightly) the pin nearest to the outside corner of the square to correct a square where the angle (inside) is more than 90 degrees. If the inside angle is less than 90 pound on the pin nearest the inside corner. I had to take more than a few whacks at it, checking using your method of flipping the square after each set of poundings, but it corrected the square quite nicely. Of interest: last weekend I visited the Eagle Square plant (Stanley) in Shaftsbury, VT and watched a demonstration of (among other things) truing up a rafter square. Essentially the same idea, but because it's one piece of flat metal and there are no pins a machinsts hammer is used to pound and either expand the metal near the square's outside corner or near the inside corner, depending on the direction of alteration required. The operator keeps the hammer going all the time bouncing it on an anvil with a steady rythm when he's not actually tapping the square, and being ultra careful to have the hammer head hit true so no dings appear on the square. Cheers, John JN in NH ---- Start of Message 43074 (thread 19056) ---- From: Don Groves Date: 1998-05-11 21:49:00 Subject: Re: What to do when squares go bad? At 09:02 5/11/98 -0700, Stephen York wrote: ...snip... >The funny thing was that the only square that I own that is right on the money >is an old Fulton square I pulled out of my Dad's garage. We used that thing >on several houses we built, and several more house rehabs. It has bounced >around in a toolbox for God knows how long. ...snip... >And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle >from a combination square is correct? Well, you could use the same draw-flip-draw technique as before, but now the lines should meet at 90 degrees. Be sure you use the Fulton to check the 90 ;-) Don Groves ---- Start of Message 43079 (thread 19056) ---- From: Wade McDonald Date: 1998-05-11 23:44:00 Subject: Re: What to do when squares go bad? GGS, Steve asks about how to square squares (you get quartics). Snip> >I started checking all my squares for a true 90, by putting them on a straight board, scratching a line, flipping the square and making another line. I was appalled when I found that the squares I had been trusting to be correct were *WAY* out of square. This includes a machinists square from a well known mail order company that has *NEVER* been dropped or mistreated in any way. So is there any way to fix squares that are not? Ouch- I would be tempted to send that square back to the mail order company for a replacement- and explain why. In the long run, a machinsts square is nice to have, even if only to tune other squares. Or a minty Starrett combination square (thanks Patrick) which is reserved for special cases- you don't want to drop them! The easiest way to true a square is- to hold the steel blade on the floor and give the handle a whack with the heel of your hand. And if it needs more encouragement, a decent tap with a mallet. If you go overboard, you could induce some twist in the blade- so be careful that you never hit real hard, that the blade is supported, and the direction you whack is in line! I have tuned a fair number this way, no problems yet. In every case, I have been able to move the blade to make the square as good as the blade edge tolerance (usually these are not ground totally straight, and you can't make 2 kinda straight edges perfectly square. And if the blade edges aren't parallel, you gotta choose between lapping, making the inside square, or making the outside square. The cheapo new squares can be pushed together (or apart) with hand pressure alone. I have moved an older one an 1/8" (over a 6" blade) this way. Of course this technique has its limits, after a point you do have to lap off. But I have had much more success than with hitting rivets. I don't think this will work real well with a machinist style solid steel square, although I have used it with success on an older all metal Stanley. >I figure that the adjustable combination sqaures are not fixable, Well, you are wrong here. Whilst travelling, I picked up a 6" Union combination square in what looked good shape- but I didn't have a "mother Square" to test. It turned out pretty lame, so I started to lap the blade on my scary sharp setup- much easier than when the blade is fixed... Veterans will know where this eventually leads. This still seemed like hard work, so I had the sudden insight- take a knife file and carefully file away, adjusting one side of the inside of the head, where the rule rests when pulled tight (this is the real trick!) Might not work on hardened heads- but they should tend to stay more true in the first place. To make a long story short, the square was better, but still off- I could make the inside square but not the outside. Took me longer than I care to admit to determine the 2 edges of the rule were not parallel- and that I may have had a part in this.. The proper order: 1)check that the edges on the rule are straight and parallel. If not, make it so! 2) file the slot (carefully) until you get square. Wade ---- Start of Message 43144 (thread 19056) ---- From: Jeff Gorman Date: 1998-05-12 20:37:00 Subject: RE: What to do when squares go bad? -----Original Message----- From: owner-oldtools@l... [mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of Stephen York Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 5:02 PM To: oldtools@l... Subject: What to do when squares go bad? And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle from a combination square is correct? My high school geometry is getting fuzzy nowadays. I gotta get those 45 degree shooting rails right too! Plane a right-angle and try the correspondence trick by scribing a line drawn from each edge. Mind you, you have to have a decent square to get a 'right' right-angle in the first place. Reminds me of a song ............ There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza .................... And it's perfectly respectable too, though list-mommy might object! Jeff -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html ++++ End of thread 19056 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19057 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43050 (thread 19057) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-11 16:16:00 Subject: Re: Kathy's Grandpa's Tools - whatsit #1 #1 sounds like clippers for shearing sheep! I just visited the Ol dgent a la King Solomons mine and he had a pair that sounds just like that and said that they were Sheep shearing shears, made it a point to show them to me. Aaron GINGRICH.LORN_C+@A... wrote: > > Folks: > One of the beneficial side effects of people knowing about my > addic..., uh, obsess..., uh, interest in old tools is that they > occasionally ask me to come lookit a pile of rust for them. Over the > weekend, my friend Kathy asked me to come over and dig through a box of > tools that were purported to have been her grandfather's. Her grandpa was > a farmer. > In amongst the various and sundry cr*p (barbeque tongs, bent rusty > auger bits, shoeshine brush. . .) were a few nice tools, including a > Witherby drawknife with adjustable handles, a PS &W brace, and a Yankee > #30 (pre-Satanly) all in real nice condition. There were also a few that > I'm not sure about, and would beg the indulgence of the Porch for some > help identifying, dating, and otherwise providing info about them. I'm > guessing they might be leather working tools, as at least one definitely > is, but I'm not sure. I'm saddled (pun intended) with a Neanderthal > computer, so scans and links aren't possible, so I'll do the best I can > with descriptions. Here goes: > > Whatsit #1: Are a pair of shears, all metal, with triangular > blades that taper from 2" to a point over 5 1/2". The blades are welded > to a metal handles that are attached at the end in a sort of cupid's bow > affair that provides spring back to an open position. O.A.L. 12". Each > blade is marked, so you can see a mark no matter which side you're looking > at. One mark is football shaped, three lines: " > BALL BROTHERS > SONS OF PATENTED > SHEFFIELD > The other mark is the word "SUCCESS" within the blade of a sabre sword, > with "BALL BROTHERS" underneath. The most amazing part is, with them > unused for ? years, and still covered with rust, they cut right through > anything we had handy there in the basement. > > Whatsit #2: A knife, curved both along its edge and along its > length (so it would make a hollowing cut). OAL about 9", blade 3 1/2"x > 7/8", same width whole length, with the end of the blade rolled back over > toward the handle to form a sort of tightly curled gouge. The handle is > bone or horn, affixed with two rivets. The blade is marked: > WORTH > B.WORTH AND SONS > *UTLERS, SHEFFIELD > ENG. > > Whatsit #3: Leather shave (heel shave?)- the travisher looking > deal. It's marked "Snell & Atherton, OED 6", and a star on the blade, and > has an adjustable shoe in front of the blade. I've seen these around, and > seem to recall someone saying they can be used as a travisher- anyone have > any experience with this? Are they handy for woodworking or not? > > Whatsit #4: This one looks like a cross between a shave and a > beader. If you hold it so you're cutting on a pull stroke, the right > handle is larger and comes from the bottom of the "body", the left handle > is smaller and comes from the top of the "body", about an inch higher. > The blade is convex along both its length and width to make a hollowing > cut, is 5/8" wide and 1 1/4" long, and oriented more or less horizontally. > The blade is marked "I.P.HYDE". There is an adjustable front shoe for > depth of cut and a tiny fence to adjust width. Actually, this seems more > like a heel shave than #3, to me. > > So, thanks for listening, if you're still with me. Any help is > appreciated, and will help Kathy and I better understand Gramps. It was > fun anyway, and Kathy's husband Tim (who, mind you, has helped build at > least four barns and a house) said "I learned more about tools in an hour > today than I had in my whole life before this." And he clearly doesn't > understand just how little I know. > > Take it slow. > Lorn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ++++ End of thread 19057 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19058 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43051 (thread 19058) ---- From: SpeedCom Date: 1998-05-11 16:16:00 Subject: Re: value of tenon tool I have just spotted one of those tenon makers that are used in a brace to put a tenon on a chair leg. It has multiple holes in it, one of which is placed under the cutting iron. I tried to remember the maker, and didn't, but it is one I've heard of. Can anyone tell me the value of these and the rarity. I don't need one, but if they are rare, and the price is good, i'd pick it up for later use or for another galoot. Cheers/Carron ---- Start of Message 43088 (thread 19058) ---- From: Chuck Zitur Date: 1998-05-12 02:47:00 Subject: RE: value of tenon tool Don asks tenon makers that are used in a brace to put a tenon on a chair leg. It has multiple holes in it, and Can anyone tell me the value of these and the rarity? It sounds like the GN Stearns patent (if older it is marked a couple of times on the base) and sold by Stearns for many years. Discounting the garage sale gloat $1.00 models these are usually sold from $20.00 to $60.00 depending upon completeness (there is supposed to be a depth gauge with a set screw on one of the frame pieces) , as usual condition and the inclination of the seller. I would say that they are not super rare but certainly not so common as to ignore one at a good price. Regards Chuck Z ---- Start of Message 43089 (thread 19058) ---- From: SpeedCom Date: 1998-05-11 23:10:00 Subject: Re: value of tenon tool Thanks to all who responded. This *was* a Stearns, and I don't know about the depth stop. However, it was $45, so I'm going to let is sit and rust a while more ;-) Thanks to all for saving me some loot!! I think I will go back and buy one of the hammers and a couple of tongs. Cheers/Carron ++++ End of thread 19058 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19059 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43053 (thread 19059) ---- From: JThomp4432 Date: 1998-05-11 12:24:00 Subject: Oldtools meeting in Phoenix Greetings, The Az Antique Tool Collectors ( I mean Users ) will be meeting this Thursday, May 14th, 7:00 p.m. at The Phoenix Forge, 130 E. Taylor. Get there about 6:30 as Erv might be selling Disston saws already marked with paint-by-numbers scenes on them, ready for you to paint and hang up as an "object d' art". Thanks, Bob ++++ End of thread 19059 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19060 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43054 (thread 19060) ---- From: TomPrice Date: 1998-05-11 12:35:00 Subject: Tool Tray Meltdown Esteemed Galoots, My eldest SWMBETTE told me that she had been smelling a chemical odor all weekend and I went down in the workshop expecting to find a can of something with an ill fitting lid or an open container of something or other. I'm careful about closing things up so I was pretty curious as to what it could be. It turned out to be a quart can of padding lacquer which had a small leak around the rim of the lid. This was tipped over into the tool tray of my bench and most of the can contents were ahem, gone. This evidently had happened sometime on Friday before we left for North Carolina. I don't remember getting the can off the shelf and setting it where I did but there it was. Stalactites of mostly dried lacquer were hanging down from the underside of the tray and most of the objects in the tray were frozen in place, stuck in a sheet of lacquer. My IT saw, Disston back saw, rules, squares, cobbler and joiner's hammers, etc., escaped unscathed as they were all in their proper places although I had a moment of panic as I looked in the tray. My bench dogs, an amazing variety of scrap and shavings, several types of wood screws, a couple of razor blades, scraps of leather, and a plastic knife (used to spread glue) were all stuck in place. My beloved #65 block plane was on its side at the far end of the tray and the lacquer tide had ebbed just a hair away from it. Whew. What leaked from the tray ended up on some p*w*r tool jigs and scrap on the shelf under the benchtop. Fortunately, I made the bench so all of the main pieces come apart. I unscrewed the side piece and knocked the bottom of the tray loose with a mallet. The tray bottom is in the garage looking like a piece of modern art of the Chaotic Workbench School. I'll scrape it off when it dries. Y'all who are putting benches together may want to consider making the tool tray (if you do one) with a design where you can dismantle it. Just in case. Make sure the lids on those cans are good and tight. Yikes. **************************** Tom Price Will Work For Tools http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html ---- Start of Message 43073 (thread 19060) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 21:22:00 Subject: RE: Tool Tray Meltdown TomPrice makes modern art with lacquer: what it could be. It turned out to be a quart can of padding lacquer which had a small leak around the rim of the lid. This was tipped over into the tool tray of my bench and most of the can contents were ahem, gone. > most of the > objects in the tray were frozen in place, stuck in a sheet of lacquer. My > IT saw, Disston back saw, rules, squares, cobbler and joiner's hammers, My heart almost failed here. And then: etc., escaped unscathed as they were all in their proper places although I had a moment of panic as I looked in the tray. Whew! Man, you gotta warn us when you're writing a cliff hanger like that. ++++ End of thread 19060 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19061 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43060 (thread 19061) ---- From: sbmarcus Date: 1998-05-11 17:07:00 Subject: Brimfield Off to Brimfield until Friday and want to invite any Galoots who are wandering around to stop by and say hello. Setting up tomorrow at Brimfield Acres North, which opens at 1:00, booth 481- up the center aisle, just past the conveniences, on the left. Setting up Thurs. and Fri. afternoon at Mays, booth 80- up the center aisle right opposite the office building. Bruce ++++ End of thread 19061 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19062 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43061 (thread 19062) ---- From: Dave Wolverton Date: 1998-05-11 18:09:00 Subject: Stanley #94 replacement blades GGs, I have a beater #94 which I scored at a local flea market a while back. Its worst flaw was that the blade was all used up. So after trolling here with a WTB for a few months, and also looking at the Patina show, all with no success, I decided to go for a modern replacement. I found that Lie-Nielsen lists a #94 replacement on his web site for $25 plus $3 S&H. This may be a recent addition to his product line -- when I called in my order the woman on the other end had to check on it. It arrived sooner than promised (she had said it might be a "couple of weeks" before the blades were finished). I first visually compared it to (what was left of) my original. The size and shape matched the original well, except for the shaping of the non-working end, which is is purely decorative anyway. The milled adjuster slots on the back were identical to the original. When I installed it on my plane, I realized that the width was very slightly wider than the plane, perhaps 1/32". Although I will have to grind it to fit, I think this is a GOOD THING. For a shoulder/rebate plane, you want the iron to be exactly as wide as the plane. Since Tom L-N's replacement blade needs to accommodate a century's worth of Stanley production of #94s, and some of those #94s may be a "skosh" wider than others, it is best if his replacement blade is a "skosh" too wide rather than a "skosh" too narrow. Although I haven't tuned up the blade yet, I reassembled the plane and gave the L-N blade its first taste of wood. Sproing! dave -- Dave Wolverton Lucent Technologies, Holmdel, NJ Email: dwolverton@l... Phone: (732) 949-1125 ---- Start of Message 43078 (thread 19062) ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 1998-05-11 22:35:00 Subject: Re: Stanley #94 replacement blades [Considers grinding replacement blade to match width of rebate/shoulder plane] I dunno if this is %100 necessary, especially if you're a numbnuts like me who'd more than likely bleep it up badly trying to regrind. For rebate and shoulder work, you only need the blade flush to one side at a time. Even a SoCal maroon like me can lay the plane flat on its side and tighten the hold-down screw. It's what lummoxes who are afraid of grinders do. Anyone else use this crutch... err compromise? Paddy Gm/ENB/FOYBEVU p.s. Had lunch with an east coast galoot today, and had a great time raking all you east coasters over the coals. -- Old tools and old fools: a dangerous combination http://www.concentric.net/~odeen/oldtools ---- Start of Message 43081 (thread 19062) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-11 23:07:00 Subject: RE: Stanley #94 replacement blades Odeen (I don't like grinders) says: > I dunno if this is %100 necessary, especially if you're a numbnuts like > me who'd more than likely bleep it up badly trying to regrind. For > rebate and shoulder work, you only need the blade flush to one side at a > time. Even a SoCal maroon like me can lay the plane flat on its side and > tighten the hold-down screw. Isn't this the standard method? Although, a little trial and error still seems to be needed for those perfect shoulders: it's something about knickers and blade corner alignment and the direction of the tides and stuff. ++++ End of thread 19062 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19063 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43063 (thread 19063) ---- From: Bill Date: 1998-05-11 18:44:00 Subject: A favor please > > By sbmarcus @lincoln.midcoast.com > > > Off to Brimfield until Friday and want to invite any Galoots who are wandering around to stop by and say hello. Setting up tomorrow at Brimfield Acres North, which opens at 1:00, booth 481- up the > center aisle, just past the conveniences, on the left. Setting up Thurs. and Fri. afternoon at Mays, booth 80- up the center aisle right opposite the office building. As someone who is new to the list, I notice that from time to time someone sends a note like this. It usually mentions a flea market or dealer (and I guess that Brimfield may be neither), and assumes that I know where it is. I know I'm only speaking for myself, but I'd sure appreciate any info that might lead me to an old tool source. Bill ++++ End of thread 19063 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19064 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43064 (thread 19064) ---- From: Aaron Ionta Date: 1998-05-11 18:44:00 Subject: the King Solomans Mine visit part 1 I'll keep it short and simple I visited A M on Sunday , spent 2.5 - 3 hours shooting the old shinola. during one conversation he mentioned a technique that an old German woodworker told him about, (A M is 80 years old ) he said that a sure fire way to keep glued up boards from warping was to A. always cut wider boards to 6 in or soa nd glue back up B when edge gluing boards ( esp on straight grained boards) alwasy gut the boards so that the cut is a few degrees off of parallel to the grain. and then flip one of the boards and glue up. he says he has stuff that he built this way years ago and it is still nice and flat . So has anyone else ever heard of this technique? p.s. he showed me some sheep shearing shears yesterday. they are interesting looking :) Aaron Ionta more to come in the King Solomon Mine Series %^) -- ================================================================= Aaron Ionta aaron.ionta@i... Application Support Engineer ajionta@m... (Home) Intranet Solutions Inc. (612)903-2032 (W) (888)688-8324 x2032 (W tollfree) ================================================================= ++++ End of thread 19064 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19065 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43066 (thread 19065) ---- From: Gary L. Yarrow Date: 1998-05-11 15:17:00 Subject: Weekend's Big and Small I have not contributed much lately, been too busy with family affairs, and yard work season has started. Remember all the flooding out this way last year? Well, this year we have not had any rain of consequence, for a long time. Things are dryer than molding plane sitting in the desert sun! Anyway, I have this friend that runs an antique store and I do a bit of database development for her, things like invoices, vendor reports, etc. So in return, she holds all tools from any vendor etc., for me until I get a chance to look at them (this is a fairly new deal we have set up.) So, I got a call, and I suspected, yeah sure, lots of junk again. Go in, and first there are two sets of H & R's, BUT someone FLATTENED the bottoms of all four!!!! Who would do such a thing? Nice junk. Then she says to look over here. WELL, first a moving fillister; needs some work to clean up, and no blade (but I did have a blade off a skewed rabbet that fit perfectly); next a #608! Now, you'se guys on the east coast may pooh-pooh this, but I had never seen one in this area before, a type 3, i.e., round sides, good to good+ shape. So, says I, this is OK; then hidden in a dark place was a #2! Picked it up, looked it over, its also in really good shape--have not tried to type it yet, got busy. So, for once all the time I spent on working on her databases, I came out with a smile. Guess I need to sell my Baily #8 user now, or perhaps I should just set that one rank and this one fine! And the #2. I think I already lost that one. Took it home, adjusted blade, etc. Anne takes a look at it. "It fits my hands really well. I'll be you can only get a couple of fingers around the tote." Of course she was right. Soooooo, guess who thinks I got her a new plane? (Thats OK, with all that's going on lately, she deserves it!) Gary ============================================= Gary L. Yarrow (Purveyor of Fine BS--Bee Spit) 819 Harvey Dunn; Two Herbs Workshop Brookings, SD 57006 ++++ End of thread 19065 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19066 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43068 (thread 19066) ---- From: Karl W. Sanger Date: 1998-05-11 20:41:00 Subject: Emmert Any Galoot with a vice: I picked up a tool or part at the recent Scranton EAIA meeting that has Emmert Mfg. Co, Waynesboro, Pa. clearly marked on it as the maker. It is a worm gear adjustable, 0 to 90 degree protractor gage, with a "Y" shaped end above the gear and a triangular piece below the gear. (OK, so much for my ability to describe the thing). A Anyway, I went searching through the vast Sanger library or tool literature and found my Emmert catalog (Xerox). Nothing in it about the device. Anyone seen such a thing - any tool marked Emmert with a protractor and worm drive for adjusting it? Also, I noticed that the catalog has a couple of pages on how to mount an Emmert vice. I can't make copies for all if any of you would like one, but I can send a copy to someone who may want to put it up in a WEB page. Let me know. Karl ---- Start of Message 43080 (thread 19066) ---- From: Alan Sadler Date: 1998-05-11 23:07:00 Subject: Re: Emmert I would love to see both of 'em. I don't have a website, but I'd like an e-mail pix. (Attachment is OK w./ me.) On Mon, 11 May 1998 16:41:20 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >Any Galoot with a vice: > I picked up a tool or part at the recent Scranton EAIA meeting that >has Emmert Mfg. Co, Waynesboro, Pa. clearly marked on it as the maker. It >is a worm gear adjustable, 0 to 90 degree protractor gage, with a "Y" >shaped end above the gear and a triangular piece below the gear. (OK, so >much for my ability to describe the thing). A > Anyway, I went searching through the vast Sanger library or tool >literature and found my Emmert catalog (Xerox). Nothing in it about the >device. Anyone seen such a thing - any tool marked Emmert with a >protractor and worm drive for adjusting it? > Also, I noticed that the catalog has a couple of pages on how to >mount an Emmert vice. I can't make copies for all if any of you would like >one, but I can send a copy to someone who may want to put it up in a WEB >page. Let me know. > > Karl > >---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Start of Message 43206 (thread 19066) ---- From: Karl W. Sanger Date: 1998-05-14 14:55:00 Subject: Re: Emmert Vice Galoots: I got a strong number of responses for copies of the Emmert mounting instructions. Sorry, I can't send copies to all. But, the information will be made available for all soon. I have made copies and sent them off to the Vice COPS (Computerized, Online Print Service?), John G. and Steve J. who will put it up on their WEB pages. So, it's in the mail (snail) and should be available soon. Remember, they are getting secondhand Xerox copies of a good Xerox of pages in the 1935 Emmert catalog. The text should be fine, but the grey in the actual mounting instructions photos suffered considerably and is problematical for good viewing. I also provided some of the pages of the Emmert vices which seemed better quality after copied. Give John and Steve a moment to get they up, please. ***************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * ***************************************** ++++ End of thread 19066 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19067 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43069 (thread 19067) ---- From: Karl W. Sanger Date: 1998-05-11 20:53:00 Subject: Making Squares Square Galoots: Awhile ago there was some talk about how squares were stamped - hand or machine. Digressing off that theme, here are some thing Roy Schaffer told me about his trip with NETCA (New England Tool Collectors Assoc) to the Eagle Square Factory (a Stanley Company). May be that these are useless facts, but still I found one of them fascinating. 1. The squares today are not tapered. 2. Squares are stamped on both sides all at once - no concern then about the stamping making them out of square because the pressure is even. 3. The stamping machine is capable of hundreds of tons and the most pressure is needed for ---- Aluminum ----- squares - because they have the most information or type on them. 4. The machines that made tapered square were operated by some of the old timers still at the factory. The said - this is fascinating to me - that the blank square was stamped with all its markings first ---BEFORE IT WAS TAPERED -- and then run through a rolling mill for lengthening each end - the marking came out in perfect measurement after tapering!!!! 5. At the factory they make the Stanley, Craftsman and any other brand utility knife. They run the line for two 10 hours shifts and they have 3 lines. Each line makes 10,000 knives an hour - this is the largest product line for Stanley's tools. That's all I know - as many have guessed in the past :^( ***************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * ***************************************** ++++ End of thread 19067 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19068 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43071 (thread 19068) ---- From: Tim Rutherford Date: 1998-05-11 16:03:00 Subject: spalting at home for fun and profit! Bill Clouser scribed: >was to start a mushroom culture Nothing that elaborate in these parts. Since I use spalted stuff for turning and don't mind it being green and or wet. I just bury it under a pile of wet sawdust in a partially sunny locale. Spalting in no time. I score the sawdust from my r*d**l *rm using friends who provide a pleasing blend of pine,, poplar, oak and walnut. Tim Rutherford ++++ End of thread 19068 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19069 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43077 (thread 19069) ---- From: Bhermanek Date: 1998-05-11 18:32:00 Subject: Re: Stanley 1929 catalog >I would be interested in hearing from anyone else with a Stanley #34, c1929 catalogue (5/1/30 edition); this is the one with the supplemental section. Walters says that it should be 208 pages, but mine is only 204. It does not appear that any pages have been torn out; so I am wondering if I have a variation or if there is a misprint in Walters.< Garry, I have the same catalog in my collection and it too is 204 pages, I believe its a misprint . Bill Hermanek (still looking for Stanley) ++++ End of thread 19069 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19070 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43084 (thread 19070) ---- From: William K. Taggart Date: 1998-05-12 01:16:00 Subject: Mass Accretion Just some musings - I won't be offended if ya skip... hang around if ya got nothing better to do... So like, in the past cuppla weekends, Bill manages to speed the shifting of the continental plates by accumulating much rusty iron in one small spot. The portion of his basement oh-so-loosely referred to by him as a "shop" (didja get the pictures, Spokeshave?) is in danger of becoming a gravity well due to the accumulated mass, and is approaching singularity (sci-fi buffs and physicists will get it). The light is starting to bend to the point that if I want to see what's on my bench, I have to look towards the heating oil tank... On the heels of acquiring a few "Bargain boxes" from my favorite local second hand store (boxes full of bits, hex keys, more bits, etc. - some to be kept, some to be tossed - much sorting to be done), and also acquiring a bunch of stuff from father-in-law (including crispy type 11 number 4), our hero finds himself called upon to assist uncle number 1 (dad's older brother), who is preparing to move to sunnier climes (FL). The way I can assist, he informs me, is to take off his hands some "workshop-type stuff" he's accumulated over the past forty years (see how word gets around that some idiot in the family collects old jun, uh tools?). Much moldy cardboard, mud, water and rust later (it's been raining here for 12 days - welcome to Seattle, NJ), I have a car trunk and back seat full of questionable-at-best...uh...stuff. At least it was all free... However, in all of this stuff was a battery charger that needs all of the leads replaced. He said it worked. Thus begins the construction of my electrolysis rig - and none too soon. Prolly the best other items were the three nice hammer heads - an old curved claw flat face hammer head, a 2 lb sledge with cross pein, and an honest-to-gosh Stanley geologist's pick/hammer. These will be early on the electrolysis list - might as well start simple. The rest was jars and cans of brads, nails, copper rivets, plumbing bits (got a nice large capacity tubing cutter and a pipe vice - don't chuckle, I'll bet four brass fig-newtons that it'll come in handy someday!). Also got some really heavyt-duty casters (i.e., wheels) that were from an old 1970's-era IBM mainframe computer. Sixteen of them. They should be quite useful for mounting on that funny-looking cast-iron-surfaced workbench with the slot in the middle, the long metal rails on front and back and the long tail hanging out the back - should make it easier to roll around, y'know - to, uh, get it out of my shop, right? If anybody wants some for your favorite heavy-and-difficult-to-move-item, lemme know - you pay shipping, and I'll send. If you've hung in this far, you're more bored than I thought - thanks! Anybody know what to do with 800 feet of low-impedance coaxial cable? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ William K. Taggart (Bill) Califon, NJ, USA wkt@i... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---- Start of Message 43142 (thread 19070) ---- From: Tom Corey Date: 1998-05-13 05:23:00 Subject: Re: Mass Accretion Bill Taggart wrote: > Anybody know what to do with 800 feet of low-impedance coaxial cable? Illegally tap into the cable 4 houses down, route it past your portable singularity...ah....your bench, and you should get all the sports scores for next year. Tom Corey ++++ End of thread 19070 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19071 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43090 (thread 19071) ---- From: J Breslawski Date: 1998-05-12 03:37:00 Subject: New York New York Dear Folks on the Porch! This Northern Canuck is going to New York, New York and area for a week in a few days. And needs a few helping comments. Whats good for finding tools in the area. I'm looking for all kinds of woodworking hand tools and small machine shop tools. Cheers Joe B ---- Start of Message 43092 (thread 19071) ---- From: Matt Prusik Date: 1998-05-12 05:47:00 Subject: Re: New York New York Jim: Try Garrett-Wade downtown on Avenue of the Americas for a look see. Other than that, don't know of any Galootinous sites in NYC proper. Matt ---- Start of Message 43095 (thread 19071) ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 1998-05-12 07:05:00 Subject: Re: New York New York At 1:47 AM 5/12/98, Matt Prusik wrote: >Jim: > Try Garrett-Wade downtown on Avenue of the Americas for a look see. I'll second that, pointing out that the G-W headquarters isn't really set up as a retail store to catch street traffic, and can be hard for an out-of-towner to find. When I made the pilgrimage about a year and a half ago, there was no exterior sign telling you if you were in the right place. Find the address (#51?-no catalog at hand) dare to enter, and go up one flight. There you'll find a marked door to the wondrous world of: an order counter. But you will also see a wall-o-chisels and carving tools, a lot of L-N and other items in the case under the counter, their bow saws, and other neat stuff. And they can fill your order instantly, from the stock room. If you're interested in what old furniture is made of and how it's put together, I recommend the ABC emporium not far from G-W. I think it's about 19th street. This is a large building with several floors of *real* Yurpeen antiques, from Italy, France, and England, maybe even a 'Murican item or two, old stuff of wood that you can stroke and probe and fondle faint planing marks. There are also weekend flea markets that can yield surprisingly varied and inexpensive results, hit and miss. Look for one about 17th st. Note that these locations are all in lower Manhatten, Greenwich Village, SoHo, and adjacent regions. Good hunding, Tom Holloway ---- Start of Message 43099 (thread 19071) ---- From: Date: 1998-05-12 13:10:00 Subject: Re: New York New York In addition to Garret Wade, which others have already suggested, you might want to visit the Strand Bookstore on Broadway at 12th Street. Vast selection of books on all subjects including a section on furniture and antiques. The furniture collection in the Metropolitan Museum or Art is a fine one. If you have a car, there are plenty of flea markets outside the city, especially in New Jersey and Connecticut. Ed Balko Middletown, NJ ---- Start of Message 43112 (thread 19071) ---- From: Jake Spiller Date: 1998-05-12 12:50:00 Subject: Re: New York New York Hi Joe, A couple of people have mentioned Garritt-Wade. It's fun and I'll give you a little hint. While there ask to use the bathroom. You see, it's in back and it'll give you a chance to see a lot of stuff no displayed in front. If you feel adventerous, they are right where the Spring St. subway staion is. The 'E' train and the 'C' local train stop there. If you're coming from mid-town you want to take the downtown train. If you would like to get together while you're in town, I work very close to Grand Central Station, which is in the middle of a major renovation and you might find interesting. If you feel like a little side excursion to Yonkers, I would recommend Constantines. If you have any questions or want to get together, feel free to reply privately. Jake Dear Folks on the Porch! This Northern Canuck is going to New York, New York and area for a week in a Cheers Joe B *********************************************************************************** Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. ++++ End of thread 19071 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19072 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43091 (thread 19072) ---- From: Jimlemon Date: 1998-05-12 03:37:00 Subject: Bad squares and laying out 45 degrees This is for Steven, but thought others might like it, too. Take a straightedge and a compass. Draw a line with the straightedge, and set the compass to any convenient opening. Now, from a centerpoint on the line, draw arcs to intersect the line on both sides of the centerpoint. Open the compass further and using the intersections of the two arcs and the line as centerpoints, draw intersecting arcs above and below the line. A line through these intersections and the original centerpoint on the line will be perpendicular to the first line. To construct a 45 degree angle, use the original centerpoint (which will now be the intersection of your two perpendicular lines) and scribe arcs on the original line and the new, perpendicular line. Use the intersection of these arcs and the lines as centers to scribe intersecting arcs. A line through the intersection of these arcs and your original center will bisect your right angle, making a 45 degree angle. Or you could just fold a piece of paper in half, then catty-cornered, to get the same results. Hope this helps- Jim Lemon ++++ End of thread 19072 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19073 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43094 (thread 19073) ---- From: eric coyle Date: 1998-05-12 06:36:00 Subject: re: when to haggle alan ferrency wrote: > I've heard of > some people who simply Cannot Buy Anything Without Haggling, including > trying it on new items in stores. There's nothing lost by asking > usually. Bill adds: I gotta tell ya - my wife absolutely shocked me at least once by asking the store manager in a department store to lower a price on a nice framed painting, because she thought it was too expensive anyway, and it had a few tiny (teeny) dings on the frame - the guy looked at it for a minute and took off 20% (twenty percent)!! You've got absolutely nothing to lose by asking.. and Eric augments.... Or sometimes you don't even have to ask.....I had saved dineros to obtain Geo Nakashima's "soul of a tree" and went to buy it. The bookseller offered that the dustcover was ripped, so their normal policy was to discount it by 50%!!!! Who could say no. Cowtown Eric. ---- Start of Message 43096 (thread 19073) ---- From: Sutton Date: 1998-05-12 07:09:00 Subject: Re: when to haggle Galoots: One of the many valuable things I learned working in retail a long time ago was that it is almost NEVER necessary to pay retail. For my mentors it was practically a mantra: NEVER PAY RETAIL NEVER PAY RETAIL. To them retail prices were for people with no imagination. David Sutton >> I've heard of >> some people who simply Cannot Buy Anything Without Haggling, including >> trying it on new items in stores. There's nothing lost by asking >> usually. > >Bill adds: > >I gotta tell ya - my wife absolutely shocked me at least once by asking >the store manager in a department store to lower a price on a nice >framed painting, because she thought it was too expensive anyway, and it >had a few tiny (teeny) dings on the frame - the guy looked at it for a >minute and took off 20% (twenty percent)!! > >You've got absolutely nothing to lose by asking.. ---- Start of Message 43107 (thread 19073) ---- From: Ed Bell Date: 1998-05-12 15:12:00 Subject: Re: when to haggle eric coyle wrote: > > Or sometimes you don't even have to ask.....I had saved dineros to obtain > Geo Nakashima's "soul of a tree" and went to buy it. The bookseller offered > that the dustcover was ripped, so their normal policy was to discount it by > 50%!!!! Who could say no. That's a pretty healthy discount, and doesn't leave much margin for them. Typical book reseller cost is 40% of cover price. I'd suggest you frequent this bookstore. :-) Ed -- Ed Bell | Trying to dig his heels in while Cincinnati Bell Information Systems | sliding down that slippery slope. Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ++++ End of thread 19073 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19074 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43098 (thread 19074) ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 1998-05-12 12:08:00 Subject: Re: when to haggle, and later gloat Gracious Galoots My all time favorite was an accidental haggle. The shop truck of my employer needed to go to the dealer for service. The small town dealer doesn't make loaners available, so I brought my bike. It wasn't my first time out. The population might be small, but this is the west and the town spreads out over several miles. After a quick stop at my dentist and a few other errands I headed for the one antique shop. It's a really good shop run by nice folks even if they hardly ever have anything I want. There is one corner back in the "annex" which is a warehouse full of stuff that mostly hasn't sold in 20 years for one reason or another. When they get tools they don't think anyone is interested in, this is where they go. I have to look anyway and besides I had time to kill. A bright window over two deep dusty shelves makes it very hard to see. But to my disbelieving eyes appeared, a Stanley #85, very nearly mint shape. With a trembling hand I plucked it up and eased it toward the light. It was real, it wasn't broken, the tag said $35. I nearly passed out. Did you ever break or injure your wrist or hand? You know, when the shock and panic cause you to clutch the injured part tight to your stomach and hunch over it. You then shuffle along holding your good hand out in front to ward off anything that might get near? That is exactly how I must have looked heading for the counter. When I reached the front, the owner's daughter was on duty that day. I set it down and said "35" She smiled up at me and said "OK, 28" As I was fumbling for the cash, she got out a brown paper bag and prepared to wrap the plane in tissue paper. It was then that I remembered. I was on my old bike and it was 4 or 5 miles back to the car dealer. I had a sudden terrible vision of the plane coming through the bottom of the bag and smacking the cement. "I guess I'd better just carry it" I said, reaching for the tote. Outside I mounted the bike, put it in a low gear and slowly took off, the plane tucked to my middle again and my other hand on the handlebar. It was going good until I came to the first corner. I squeezed the brake lever and the cable snapped. No chance was I moving my other hand even if it killed me so I just stood up and ground to a stop, tennies smoking. I swapped hands and took off again. This got me a mile or more until someone was coming out from a side street and didn't see me. I reeled in on the other brake and that cable gave way. It was a death defying swerve that got me around the back of that car. My "plane" hand never left my belly. After that it was low, low gear and dragging feet all the way back to the dealer. It might have been the longest 4 miles of my life. Yours Scott * * * * * * * * * Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, 63742 Applegate Dr., Happy Camp, CA 96039 * scottg@s... PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/ ---- Start of Message 43110 (thread 19074) ---- From: Bill Clouser Date: 1998-05-12 16:02:00 Subject: RE: when to haggle, and later gloat On Tuesday Scott wrote: < snip of harrowing biking while clutching a cheap #85> Sounds like Scott needs to haggle over a bike tune-up. :) ++++ End of thread 19074 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19075 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43102 (thread 19075) ---- From: Lawrence Russo Date: 1998-05-12 14:04:00 Subject: Synopsis: Tim Kelly's last Toys were Disappointing GGs: I wanted to let the dust settle and for the musket balls to stop flying before I did this synopsis, but I believe that it is important. I did not intend the original post to be interpreted as negatively as it was by some people. However, I have received 35 responses to the original post (both public and private) and the overwhelming majority of the respondents characterize my comments as being "fair and even handed". In addition many of the responses commended me for breaking with the "shill" mentality and injecting some honesty into the list's tool review process. So for those who were "bugged" by what they considered to be an "unfair" tool review, a re-examination of their own prejudices may well be appropriate. For those who questioned if was appropriate to post a review without first contacting the manufacturer, I say yes it is. About 2/3 of the email responses also agree with this philosophy. However, I also completely agree with the GGs who said that critiques that don't get back to the mfg are not constructive. That is not the case here. I have had several conversations with Tim concerning other tools that I have purchased from him, and I have found him to be a very pleasant and agreeable person. However, in this case it was easier for me to fix the problems myself than it would have been for me to package up the planes and ship them back to CA. This attitude was echoed by Jason F. (who also had F&F problems). Sure, I could have been a hard a** and packaged them up and shipped them back, but I took the easy way out and fixed them myself. This was not the expected "tuning", this was "repair" work that clearly should not have to be performed on this caliber tool. Since I was not expecting any recourse from Tim on these tools I chose not to make the call (From NY to CA) just to complain about things that I had already fixed. I will relay my dissatisfaction to Tim the next time I call him and I will be just as candid as I have have been when I talked to him in the past. Tim (and other mfgs on the list) have gotten both praise and critiques from me in the past and that will continue. In summary, the vast majority of GG email responses expressed encouragement to me for being honest and expressed hope that a pattern unbiased tool reports can be continued. I would like to pass that encouragement along to other GGs, we will all benefit from a balanced tool review process. Along those lines I have been remiss about providing some good reviews on some great tools. To those suppliers I apologize, my own time limitations have stretched the reviews out too far. When the good reviews do come, you GGs will know that it's not just a "shill". Thanks to All Larry ++++ End of thread 19075 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19076 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43108 (thread 19076) ---- From: Don Stern Date: 1998-05-12 15:48:00 Subject: Matt Werner does good! I'm taking the liberty to report on the doings of one of our fellow galoots. Just looked at the latest "Woodworker West" and saw Matt Werner's 'Entryway Table' in the On Exhibit section, being shown at Fine WW of Carmel. It's gratifying to see that someone in the group get recognition from a gallery; especially in Northern Cal where there are a lot of deserving (and competing) craftspeople. Congratulations Matt, Don "WW West" is a West Coast periodical; see www.wooodwest.com ++++ End of thread 19076 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19077 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43109 (thread 19077) ---- From: Jim Spallin Date: 1998-05-12 16:02:00 Subject: Bristol Tools Hi folks, Does anyone have any experience with a new infill made by Bristol Tools out of the UK? I'm interested in what you have to say about fit and finish and usability. How do they compare to the Norris's and other infills. Please reply to my e-mail address as I've been falling way behind in keeping up with the group. I'll collect the info and post a summary. Gidday, Jim Attachment (text/x-vcard)vcard.vcf

Replies Author Date 29571 Re: Bristol Tools Richard Wilson Wed 5/13/1998

---- Start of Message 43153 (thread 19077) ---- From: Richard Wilson Date: 1998-05-13 14:07:00 Subject: Re: Bristol Tools Jim Spallin asked.. >Does anyone have any experience with a new infill made by >Bristol Tools out of the UK? Serendipity says.. "Tom Johnson, notorious galoot raider, and Richard Wilson, one time user, plan a raid HHHH visit there this very Saturday" - I'll watch out for whatever, and if you're quick enough to reply, Tom may even be presuaded to carry stuff back to the States But I'm NOT committing him - have no way of contacting him at present. ++++ End of thread 19077 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19078 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43114 (thread 19078) ---- From: Matthew Werner Date: 1998-05-12 18:16:00 Subject: Re: DON STERN does good Hey Don, I think I'm blushing. Thanks again for your encouraging words. Matt Werner Santa Cruz, CA ++++ End of thread 19078 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19079 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43118 (thread 19079) ---- From: Leimberger, Jeff Date: 1998-05-12 20:09:00 Subject: You may be a Galoot ... You may be a Galoot if SWMBO asks you "What's that on your shirt?" and you look down to see what looks to be an insect on your chest. But it's too thin for that, too ethereal; perhaps a molt from some since departed bug? You pick it up to discover that it is a wispy thin shaving of poplar, coiled upon itself several times courtesy of your #603. Jeff - who has finally realize the joy of planing perfection, a board with no plane marks, burnish marks or tear-out (well a very tiny speck around a knot ;^), even if it was a fairly small one! Give me some finish - I don't need no steenkin s*n$pa@er! ---- Start of Message 43143 (thread 19079) ---- From: Cougarjack Date: 1998-05-13 02:08:00 Subject: Re: You may be a Galoot ... ....if your fingertips are all criss-crossed with tiny cuts from testing the edges on your tools. ....if there is a can of Norton on your stove instead of olive oil. ....if you start noticing grain reversal while cutting meat. ....if you spend hours trying to figure out how to get the components of that offensive plastic telephone into a wood box, after the phone company spent 75 years trying to get it OUT of the wooden box. ....if there are more spare Stanley parts on your kitchen table than at the local hardware store. ....if you have a # 5 lever cap holding down the papers on your dashboard so they don't blow out the window. ....if you reach into your pocket at the schoolboard meeting to see what's poking you, and you find it's a spokeshave. ....if you suddenly begin noticing missing trees around town. ....if hearing the word "porch" makes you salivate. ....if you wonder why everyone else gets a rush when they pass by the "Tool Corral" at Home Depot, but you avoid it like that store where your SWMBO buys the weird hats ....if you wonder what sheetrock is for. OK, OK, so I didn't start this thread! OB tool content: I was moving my blacksmith stuff to my new shop location this weekend, and was trying to recall the method of stamping the weight on anvils. Didn't it have to do with hundred weights and fractions thereof? Mine says 135 on it, but must weigh over 250 pounds. Anyone remember how this was done? I'm away from my reference library for the time being, having boxed it all up for the move. I also rediscovered a very large and nice blacksmith's leg vise I bought years ago, then promptly buried under tons of garage crap. I know very little about these vises, and would love to find a good historical reference on them. Anyone? Regards, Nick ---- Start of Message 43170 (thread 19079) ---- From: James Foster Date: 1998-05-13 20:29:00 Subject: Re: You may be a Galoot ... Cougarjack wrote: ....if your fingertips are all criss-crossed with tiny cuts from testing the edges on your tools. ....if there is a can of Norton on your stove instead of olive oil. ....if you start noticing grain reversal while cutting meat. ....if you spend hours trying to figure out how to get the components of that offensive plastic telephone into a wood box, after the phone company spent 75 years trying to get it OUT of the wooden box. ....if there are more spare Stanley parts on your kitchen table than at the local hardware store. ....if you have a # 5 lever cap holding down the papers on your dashboard so they don't blow out the window. ....if you reach into your pocket at the schoolboard meeting to see what's poking you, and you find it's a spokeshave. ....if you suddenly begin noticing missing trees around town. ....if hearing the word "porch" makes you salivate. ....if you wonder why everyone else gets a rush when they pass by the "Tool Corral" at Home Depot, but you avoid it like that store where your SWMBO buys the weird hats ....if you wonder what sheetrock is for. OK, OK, so I didn't start this thread! OB tool content: I was moving my blacksmith stuff to my new shop location this weekend, and was trying to recall the method of stamping the weight on anvils. Didn't it have to do with hundred weights and fractions thereof? Mine says 135 on it, but must weigh over 250 pounds. Anyone remember how this was done? I'm away from my reference library for the time being, having boxed it all up for the move. Hundred weights, quarter hundred weights, and leftover pounds. 112 + (3 * 28) + 5 = 201 So stand on a scale and note your weight. Have someone hand you the anvil and note the new value. Subract your "tare" weight and Bob's your uncle! Hope he's a back surgeon too!! B^) B^) B^) ---- Start of Message 43190 (thread 19079) ---- From: Matthew Werner Date: 1998-05-14 04:11:00 Subject: Re: You may be a Galoot ... ...if the underside of your left forearm has a 5 o'clock shadow... ++++ End of thread 19079 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19080 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43119 (thread 19080) ---- From: Tad Date: 1998-05-12 20:51:00 Subject: First post (Bio) Hello GGs, In keeping with the "porch rewls", this is my attempt at a proper introduction. After posting a "Plane tuning FAQ for Nahmites" on rec.norm, I was invited by a regular of that group to "Go to hell". Luckily for me, living here in Iowa, I knew exactly where that was. Besides, the offer of "free beer for life" was too good to pass up. I walked down the street to hell and ordered up a beer. To make a long story short, I soon became bored with the smokey bar atmosphere, one-track conversation and warm "American" beer. I needed some fresh air. Looking around the bar, I noticed a door way at the rear of the establishment. A sign on the door knob proclaimed "Danger, no exit!", but it was slightly ajar. Curiousity aroused, I made excuses to my drinking buddies "Gotta make room for another, HAR HAR HAR!". and slunk towards the door. Peeking through the crack, "What's this, it looks like the 1800s out there." Quietly, I snuck onto the porch, had a seat on the railing and began to listen in on the conversations around me. My arms began to lengthen and my forehead began to protrude. Honest to Nahm truth, I tell ya. *ahem* What're ya'll looking' at me like that for? Ok, the specifics. I have sold my soul to a real-time OS company in Des Moines IA where I churn out communications-related code. C, C++ and assembly on more processors than I can shake a stick at. Most recently, I've been involved in writing a debugging protocol that runs between Windows and a whole lot of target processors. So I guess Bill owns some of my soul as well. *sigh* Anyway, after listening to the symphony of cooling fans all day, the last thing I want to do is go home and fire up the buzz sander or (heaven help me) the router. Luckily, after reading a post to rec.norm by the GM, I realised that not only didn't I have to fire up loud, obnoxious tools, it would most likely be easier to accomplish what I wanted with a SS blade. So that's how I came to be sitting on the porch railing, ready and willing to learn. For the forseeable future, I plan on "lurking about" in the shadows, soaking up as much info as possible and buying more than I can really afford on FMM ;). Tad Anhalt Des Moiner, IA "Who just managed a two-state tool pillaging trip while spending time with Mom on mother's day weekend. [drive-by gloat] ---- Start of Message 43130 (thread 19080) ---- From: Bill Brady Date: 1998-05-13 01:28:00 Subject: Re: First post (Bio) Tad Wrote: >I have sold my soul to a real-time OS company in Des >Moines IA where I churn out communications-related code. Sounds like Microware. Welcome aboard. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. ---- Start of Message 43138 (thread 19080) ---- From: Tad Date: 1998-05-13 03:52:00 Subject: Re: First post (Bio) Hello again GGs, Sorry about this, I know that it's exceedingly lame to follow up to myself, especially on a mailing list. Unfortunately this is sort of important. There's a gloat at the end to try and make up for it. > After posting a "Plane tuning FAQ for Nahmites" on rec.norm, I was invited >by a regular of that group to "Go to hell". Luckily for me, living here in This actually sounds worse than it is. It was actually meant (and taken) as a complement. I believe the wording was actually more along the line of "Come join us in hell". Ugh. Sorry for the confusing "inside joke". If you're actually interested enough to have read this far, you might want to do a Dejanews search on "Welcome to hell, Can I get you a refreshment?" for more insight on the matter. My intro post might make a bit more sense as well. Alright, just so that this silly followup isn't a waste of bandwidth, I'll take a moment to de-drive-by my previous gloat. Mother's Day weekend. Not a chance in hell of getting any galooting in, right? Wrongo! Friday afternoon, leave work early and race home. Pick up the wife and drive towards the Southeast part of the state to see Mom. It is Mother's Day weekend after all. "Hey hon, you want to stop and look at furniture in ?" I asked slyly. Score one saw vice. Cast iron, no makers mark anywhere. It clamps on the edge of a table, has an adjustment that tilts back and forth and the saw is clamped in by pulling up on a lever with an eccentric that engages the outside jaw. The throat is ~6 1/2" deep, jaws ~9" wide. Any ideas on this one? Don't know if the price is gloatable, but I thought it was a steal for $12. Saw a rustier version later for $40 in non-working condition... Back in the car and drive the rest of the way back "home". Visit with the parents, yada, yada, yada... Next morning. "Say Mom, do you and dad want to go antiquing?" My parents are both avid antiquers, so I already knew the answer. We set out for a pillaging session across the SE portion of Iowa and somehow end up in Western IL. Which is where I found ... A large timber framing mallet. Looks like an oak 4x4x7 with a 12" handle sticking out of it. It's a two hander, for sure. Some small indications of rough use, but for the most part all there. Then I notice the price tag. I'm expecting it to be around $40 knowing the local pricing structure pretty well by now. $5? Cool. Then, I glance at the display shelf I found it sitting on "Sale, 25% off everything on this shelf". Heh, heh, heh. Load up my stash, say bye to the parents and head home so we can see the in-laws as well. All in all, not a bad weekend. Tad Anhalt "Shameless opportunist" ++++ End of thread 19080 ++++ ++++ Start of thread 19081 ++++ ---- Start of Message 43122 (thread 19081) ---- From: Karl W. Sanger Date: 1998-05-12 21:45:00 Subject: Tool Question Estute Galoots: I have recently stumbled on a Yankee #2101 brace marked "Bell System". I've had a number of these before and while they are a great brace, they only differed in the length of the throw. However, the one I found recently is different in that it is annodized or "nitrate" black on the jaws, the metal holding the pad and attaching to the arms or bar, the metal rings at the hand swivbel, the metal above the chuck, except for the brass "gear box" which show no signs of the normal nickeling and is clearly old lacquered. The arms or bars are copper plated and show no signs of nickeling either. It almost looks like this was a "stealth" brace, made for Watergate style black-bag jobs. Anyone seen such a brace? I did not find a reference for it in the vast Sanger library. ***************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * ***************************************** ---- Start of Message 43134 (thread 19081) ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 1998-05-13 03:51:00 Subject: Re: Tool Question At 4:45 PM -0500 5/12/98, Karl W. Sanger wrote: >Estute Galoots: > I have recently stumbled on a Yankee #2101 brace marked "Bell >System". I've had a number of these before and while they are a great >brace, they only differed in the length of the throw. However, the one I >found recently is different in that it is annodized or "nitrate" black on >the jaws, the metal holding the pad and attaching to the arms or bar, the >metal rings at the hand swivbel, the metal above the chuck, except for the >brass "gear box" which show no signs of the normal nickeling and is clearly >old lacquered. The arms or bars are copper plated and show no signs of >nickeling either. It almost looks like this was a "stealth" brace, made >for Watergate style black-bag jobs. Anyone seen such a brace? I did not >find a reference for it in the vast Sanger library. > I'm sorry Karl, but National Security prevents me from supplying this information. You will be expected to return this brace to the Pentagon. Gary Roberts groberts@s... Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there? ---- Start of Message 43151 (thread 19081) ---- From: Sanford Moss Date: 1998-05-13 11:57:00 Subject: Re: Tool Question Karl Sanger wrote: -------------------------------------- I have recently stumbled on a Yankee #2101 brace marked "Bell System". I've had a number of these before and while they are a great brace, they only differed in the length of the throw. However, the one I found recently is different in that it is annodized or "nitrate" black on the jaws, the metal holding the pad and attaching to the arms or bar, the metal rings at the hand swivbel, the metal above the chuck, except for the brass "gear box" which show no signs of the normal nickeling and is clearly old lacquered. The arms or bars are copper plated and show no signs of nickeling either. It almost looks like this was a "stealth" brace, made for Watergate style black-bag jobs. Anyone seen such a brace? I did not find a reference for it in the vast Sanger library. -------------------------------------- Karl, I have a Yankee #41 pushdrill NIB with the same finish & "Bell System" marking. The consen