---- Start of Message 157501 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-02-25 20:54:30 Subject: Plane Day Bad Andy and SWMBO have a cheap termite barf computer desk so the keyboard was not in the line of drool. Those are great pictures. Glad you gave a list of names for the group picture. If you ever have a get together like that again, I would be glad to come along. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157502 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-02-25 21:02:54 Subject: Workbench Legs I was in my beat up old garage today and found some large oak boards that the old owners left me. Big, heavy, oak. Now I have the materials to start on my new workbench legs. Free legs. This is like my free shaving horse. (The builders of my old neighbor's house left a 2x10x6 in the trash for me). Cheap is good free is better. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157503 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-02-25 18:26:00 Subject: RE: Plane Day Photos Ron - thanks for sharing the photos, along with your earlier posting on the gathering at PW in Cincy. That must have been one hell of a party. I'm truly jealous. Regards, Lew Soloway in So Cal -----Original Message----- From: Ron Hock [mailto:ron@h...] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:16 PM To: OldTools Subject: [OldTools] Plane Day Photos Galootish Friends, The kind folks at Popular Woodworking Magazine, who hosted the soon-to-be-legendary meeting of the plane makers (and some of us ancillary to the task,) have sent photos of the event to all who participated (pretty cool of them.) And, with their permission, I've posted the lot on the HOCK TOOLS website: http://www.hocktools.com/planemaking%202006%20cd/click%20here.htm Popular Woodworking is planning an article about the event for an upcoming issue so keep an eye out for it. There are a boat load of photos so it'll take a while to load but there are some dazzling planes depicted and, of course some dazzling people as well. Don't drool on your keyboard (over the planes, I mean. If you drool over the people, well, that'd be weird.) When you get to the group photo (I swear we were *this* close to a group hug) here's the scorecard: John Edwards (on floor), the row behind him, seated, l-r is Konrad Sauer, Ron Hock, Wayne Anderson, Don McConnell, Larry Williams, Terry Saunders, Bob Baker and Brian Buckner. Back row, standing, l-r: Christopher Schwarz, Tom Lie-Nielsen, Kirsten Lie-Nielsen, Mark Swanson, Joel Moskowitz, Clarence Blanchard, Mike Jenkins, John Economaki and Robin Lee. An august group if there was ever one assembled and I must repeat how proud I was to be amongst them. Ron -- Ron Hock HOCK TOOLS http://www.hocktools.com 16650 Mitchell Creek Dr Fort Bragg, CA 95437 (707) 964-2782 fax (707) 964-7816 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157504 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-25 21:05:17 Subject: flea mkt find GG, Got another run a my flea dealer and the collection he bought, makes tool hunting easy...I'm broke by the time I leave his booth, so it's one stop and a little window shoping and then go home. http://tinyurl.com/zp6no Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157505 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-02-25 19:23:05 Subject: Re: flea mkt find Roy calls to all > GG, > Got another run a my flea dealer and the collection he bought, makes > tool > hunting easy...I'm broke by the time I leave his booth, so it's one > stop > and a little window shoping and then go home. Oh sir Roy, Nice haul! Unless I miss my guess, that handsaw is from a nest of saws wherein the blades are interchangeable with the handle. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157506 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-02-25 22:35:07 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > The thing about fleas is that you don't always get to select > exactly what you > want, so you take what you find and in some cases end up with less > than > desirable tools also. GG Many times fleas yield a tool you did not think you needed, like the couple of Yankee 5 speed egg beaters that I love to spin! Or you find one that is way better than the one you intended to get - like the $1 Disston 112 (fancy skew backed hand saw, Jeff), or the $25 Stanley 605-1/4(Iron junior jack of the solidly bedded frog variety, Jeff), both of which get used - especially the Bedrock. Probably my nature, but waiting to see what comes up is half of the fun. Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157507 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-25 19:48:52 Subject: Re: flea mkt find > Unless I miss my guess, that handsaw is from a nest of saws wherein > the blades are interchangeable Hot S--- Roy!! Score Disston saw nest, pat 1909 That's one of the earlier tote patterns looks like. Is it wheat carved? Is it apple???? Lots more blades out there to find. That heavy skewback blade is not so common and could be a lot worse for a start. Is it a rip? Pull up that etch. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157508 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-25 22:51:21 Subject: Re: Flea mkt finds GG, Thanks Mike, That explains the pin and slot arrangement that puzzled me on an adjustable handle. Guess I'll just go search Dale's shop, see if he has anymore blades...gotta go anyway. he admired the bocote pen I carry and when I told him I made it, he wanted one soooo...I'll deliver! Scott, no carving but I'm thinking it's apple. An etch doesn't look promising, 7PPI filed (^) ? and with absolutely zero set to the teeth...and appears to have been used this way. Blade is in good shape but well used. WHATSIT...A metalic tounge plane, looks like an old side by side with hammers (two blades and adjusters). Has Early type(compared side by side) stanley casting for the tote with leaf and vine, fence was a square tube sheleton affair, didn't say stanley that I could find but said pat'd pending on the side and I forgot to write down the date but I think it was '88. Jingle any bells? I can't find anything like it in B&G or FTJ. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157509 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-02-26 09:43:14 Subject: Atkins Saw Pamphlet at Oldtoolsshop Fellow Saw Enthusiasts, Wiktor has again been gracious enough to post something for the Porch. I scanned and sent him an Atkins saw pamphlet I have. I don't see a date anywhere. It can be viewed here: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/EC-Atkins/AtkinsSilverSteelSawSense-ne.pdf Best Regards to all, Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157510 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-26 09:36:02 Subject: Re: Flea mkt finds GG, Since no one has answered my WHATSIT question, What I was asking about, I've discovered, was a #48 type of tonge and groove plane. Probably not a Stanley. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157511 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-02-27 01:02:32 Subject: Re: Siberian Wind > Hello.... > > I want to thank all of you for massages I received regarding > some confusion that I am partially responsible for. > > > Wiktor A. Kuc Esteemed Gallots-of-the-Porch I am late (as usual) in arriving. It appears that bad has been made good, and hopefully the experience serves to provide an opportunity for us to examine what we have, and what we might not have. I have probably corresponded with Wiktor for longer than most here, from when his website was just a dream, and he was working so hard to get it off the ground. We have continued corresponding, sometimes just a few lines to check how things are, and so I know that he is working even harder than ever WKFinetools is less than 6 months old (indeed, my correspondence with Wiktor goes back to August last year, and the website had then not been announced). Yet in this short period of time Wiktor has created a reference source of huge promise, and a meeting place for Galoots from all walks of life and from all corners of the globe. No, it is not The Porch, it is more like The Shop. If WKFinetools did create revenue through advertising, I would call it due recompence for the time and effort that Wiktor gives, not to mention the webspace he gives away freely. Yet there is no revenue, no advertising - all of which makes Wiktor's involvement all the more amazing. Wiktor my friend (I like to think of you as such), my sincere thanks for all your past efforts, and may your websites continue to grow in stature. With kind regards from Perth Derek Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157512 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-26 09:27:00 Subject: Re: Stanley #45 Blade Source > had the 050 attachement and the 050 blades, and all of the optional > blades that were offered and in the original box, Maybe they fixed the 050 ? I got one when they were first released. Bought new off the shelf (or actually out of the Silvo Hardware catalog) in the 70's. It came with a full compliment of 24 blades. The plastic tote had to go first thing! It was the first plane tote I ever carved and a really weird one to fit at that. But in use, except for plowing and a couple other of the narrowest blades, the frame interferes with the cut and you can't get it out of the way so it is effectively useless for beading, fluting, sash cutting or tonguing on anything deeper than about 1/16" maximum. It hasn't seen much use in all this time, you can imagine. Is this a type 1 failure and the rest of the planes actually work? Or are they still selling a plane that never worked? yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157513 ---- From: Ron Hock Date: 2006-02-26 09:42:38 Subject: Re: re: Plane show The maple plane is one that I made from one of our kits and the bocote is one of James Krenov's. With all those big-buck planes around, I felt the need to represent the "every-woodworker" with some humbler offerings (that, I might add, worked just as well as the works of art assembled that day.) Ron Mike Wenzloff wrote: > Steve asked... > >> And whose woodies are those, 2nd from last picture in the roll? Yup, I >> need me a new keyboard from the drool overload. > > > My guess is the Reverend Ron's... > > Take care, Mike > still drying the keyboard... -- Ron Hock HOCK TOOLS http://www.hocktools.com 16650 Mitchell Creek Dr Fort Bragg, CA 95437 (707) 964-2782 fax (707) 964-7816 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157514 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-02-26 11:53:02 Subject: Re: Tack(?) Hammer Use and Info Thomas Graham asked (based on a tracing) about a hammer: ... >The head is 4 1/2" long and, generally, square in cross section. It >is about 3/4"square in the center where the handle come through. It >tapers to approx. 1/2" square at head's base/striking end and 3/8" >square at its top end. This latter end has slot about 1 3/8" long >that is in line with the handle and through the head from front to >back. The slot is 1 3/8" long and is rounded and wider (3/16") at >is bottom becoming a narrow slit at the top. ... > >What say you? Is it a tack hammer or does it have a more >specialized use? What is the purpose of the slot? While I do not consider myself to be a hammer aficionado, the lack of any public response to Thomas' query has prompted me to venture a response. The description sounds very similar to a small hammer which my father owned, and which we simply considered to be a tack hammer. The slotted end was magnetized (is this also true of the hammer in question?), and I recall being somewhat curious as to the purpose of the slot. Which prompted me to search for any possible relevant patents. I have yet to find a directly relevant patent, but a patent issued to Arthur R. Robertson provides a possible rationale for the slot. The primary claim of this patent centers on a "horseshoe" type magnetic end for a tack hammer, which Robertson claims to be stronger than previous "bar" type magnetic tack hammers. http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=352070&typeCode=0 He refers to this same feature in a 1902 patent for a more complex tack hammer: http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=710615&typeCode=0 These tack hammers were used by a variety of trades using small tacks (carpet installers, upholsterers, etc.), but I would speculate that one of the motivations for developing magnetized tack hammers may have been their use by bill posters. Robertson's 1902 patent seems particularly well suited for this use. Hope this helps a bit. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157515 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 10:58:58 Subject: Re: re: Plane show On 26 Feb 2006 at 9:42, Ron Hock wrote: > The maple plane is one that I made from one of our kits and the bocote > is one of James Krenov's. With all those big-buck planes around, I felt > the need to represent the "every-woodworker" with some humbler offerings > (that, I might add, worked just as well as the works of art assembled > that day.) > > Ron > Not to slight the lovely maple plane, but the curving form and carved texture on the Krenov looks fantastic to my eye. Way cool adjusting hammer, too! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157516 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 11:13:53 Subject: A question of temperance Oh sagacious ones, I'm gong to make a few blades for my Stanley 45, and at this point I can use whatever metal I want. What I would like to know is what metal provides the best chance of success for home heat treating? I figure that I can use old files without loosing their temper, but what of A2 or O1? Or D2? R2D2? And how important is the cryo with the A2? _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157517 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-02-26 13:27:45 Subject: Re: Re: Flea mkt finds Roy, I must have missed your whatsit question. Stanley made a No. 48 tongue and groove. Is this the one you are looking for? http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:36 AM Subject: [OldTools] Re:Flea mkt finds > GG, > Since no one has answered my WHATSIT question, What I was asking > about, > I've discovered, was a #48 type of tonge and groove plane. Probably > not a > Stanley. > > > Roy Griggs > roygriggs@v... > www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157518 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-02-26 11:51:08 Subject: re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" Benjamin, > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/bMullin/galootmadetools/index.html I finally had time to check out your video. That 'git' of yours cuts better dovetails than I do, plus I like the way he organizes his tools. Nice job. Maybe with more funding for a sequel you could get Vanna to clear the shavings for him. Wiktor, the download went as fast as anything. Heck with those backrubs Al talked about, c'mere and let me give you a big ol' kiss! cur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157519 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-26 12:34:07 Subject: Re: Re: Flea mkt finds On Sunday 26 February 2006 07:36 am, roygriggs@v... wrote: > Since no one has answered my WHATSIT question, What I was asking about, > I've discovered, was a #48 type of tonge and groove plane. Probably not a > Stanley. I own a Craftsman model of the 48, it was made in England for Sears. Mine has a Craftsman stamp on it, but there could be some that don't. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157520 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 12:39:58 Subject: Windfall Well, not exactly wind, but one of my neighbors just came to the door with sawdust all over him. He just cut down a very old cherry tree in another neighbors back yard. I just wheeled home about 3 feet of the tree with all of the crotches. Oh boy, more projects! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157521 ---- From: "Jim Cook" Date: 2006-02-26 15:41:40 Subject: Galoot meets guitar builder, Hi All, Short version: met a now famous guitar builder, ordered a guitar. Long verson: A friend gave me the book "Claptons Guitar: Watching Wayne Henderson Build the Perfect Instrument" by Allen St. John, for Christmas this year. If you haven't read that book and are into acoustic guitars at all, you should read it. I read the book pretty much non-stop. Without giving anything away, Wayne Henderson is pretty much a legend, both as a guitar player and as a guitar builder, and the subject of one of his guitars has been percolating in the back of my mind since Christmas, though I didn't really realize the extent of the percolation. As it happens, my daughter is living in Floyd, VA, and I took my youngest son during this week of school vacation, and he and I drove down from Newton, MA to visit her. Among other things, we did a little tour of Floyd, stopping at the "Picking Porch" music store where I spoke with guitarist/store owner Scott Perry. He mentioned Wayne was going to be teaching a class March 11th at his store, which of course I was going to miss. Scott gave me Wayne's phone number and suggested I give him a call and maybe I could go out and visit him. He explained Wayne was a really nice guy, and wouldn't have a problem with people dropping in. I agonized about that for a while, because I didn't really want to waste the time of a busy man, but in the end I called him, discovered the man answers his own phone. We set up a time for the following day at 2pm, and he gave me directions to get there. Believe me when I say you don't want to try and find him without directions. My daughter's boyfriend told me it was only an hour down the road. What he didn't tell me was that I'd have to average 93 miles per hour to get there, and account for the 7 or 8 traffic lights in Galax that I'd have to stop for. I arrived promptly at 2:40, and walked up to his shop, half expecting him to send me packing. When I walked into the shop, he was sitting in a chair playing one of his guitars, surrounded by several other folks. That was pretty amazing. As it turned out, he had just done some setup work on the guitar for the actual owner. He handed the guitar to the man, and looked up at me over the tops of his glasses, saying "you the fella that said he was going to be here at 2 o'clock?" I said yes and was about to go into apology mode about how I didn't really leave myself enough time, when he added "Well, I didn't make it back here by then either." That's when I started thinking things were possibly going to be ok. On the top of his workbench was a wooden jack plane. I asked him if he used it, he said no, someone had just sent it to him, he didn't know much about it. I looked at it, both the cutter and wedge were in backwards, and the cutter was pretty dull. I offered to sharpen it up for him. He handed me a stone and I went off to another corner, cleaned it up, brought it back, we sent the sole over his j**nt*r for about three passes to flatten it, and he now has a reasonably useful Auburn tool co. jack plane. I told him what the strike button was for, how to tap the cutter until it was the right depth, gave him the date range of when the plane was probably made, and told him about Auburn using prison labor on some of their planes. He had a 1924 Gibson mandolin and a Martin guitar that belong to the fellow that does musical instrument appraisals for Antique Roadshow. The mandolin had some unique properties, and the appraiser wanted to trade it for a guitar made by Wayne. The Martin, a 1961 D28, had the name "JOANN" in 1" square metallic stick-on letters applied to the front of the guitar. I watched Wayne apply heat and careful force to remove that junk, then carefully use naptha and then buffing to completely restore the surface to its original condition. He showed me a guitar body, neck not yet attached, that's going to Doc Watson (yep, *that* Doc Watson). He figures he has to get that one completed fairly soon, since Doc is getting on in years. I went out to my car and brought in my 1978 vintage HD28 (dreadnaught size, Jeff). Wayne played it and pronounced it to be a pretty good guitar. I asked if that meant good for a 70's guitar, and he said it's good compared to any of them. He pulled out another guitar that was simply georgeous, that he was going to deliver to its new owner this weekend. He carefully tuned it, and played it for a while, then asked if I wanted to play it. I had thought about this. I knew if I liked it, I was going to need to order one of my own. It was a risk. I didn't hesitate a second. I played it, sang a song while playing it. This one was set up with medium gauge strings, so it was a little stiffer to play than I'm used to, but the sound was simply superb. That's going to be a very happy customer. I couldn't hold back any longer, and asked him how I got on the list to get one of my own. He said to put my info on a piece of paper with the type of guitar I wanted. At first I said I wanted a dreadnought size. He said he'd make me what I want, but since I've already got a really good dreadnought that I like, I should get an OM size. That was honesty, he really does care that I get the guitar I need. So that's what I've ordered. OM size, Appalachian spruce top, east indian rosewood back and sides, set up for light gauge strings. Some time in the next several years I look forward to getting it. I'll let you know when I do. In conclusion, Wayne is definitely a galoot. I'm pretty sure he's not on the list, but he would fit here if he was. He was perfect willing to show me anything I wanted to know about what he does. He's just an incredibe craftsman. That was the fasted 2-1/2 hours I've ever spent, all enjoyable. Jim Cook Newton, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157522 ---- From: "David C." Date: 2006-02-26 12:58:08 Subject: Re: Tack(?) Hammer Use and Info At 11:53 AM 2/26/2006 -0600, Don McConnell wrote: >The description sounds very similar to a small hammer >which my father owned, and which we simply considered to be a tack >hammer. > >The slotted end was magnetized (is this also true of the hammer in >question?), I have one of those in my hammer drawer as well, purchased at a local hardware store probably 20 years ago. I've always thought of it simply as a tack hammer. When I was a kid around '60 or '61 there was an upholstery shop down the street and I would occasionally hang around there. The guys doing the upholstery work would put a handful of tacks in their mouth then stick the magnetized end of the hammer in their mouth to pick up a tack as one hand was occupied with the hammer and the other was usually holding a web or fabric stretcher. I recall buying boxes of "sterilized" blue steel tacks; I don't know how sterile they were after sitting in a pasteboard box for a few months. Dave C ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157523 ---- From: A Mack Date: 2006-02-26 15:45:45 Subject: micrometers What was the first American made micrometer? I thought that it was the Brown & Sharpe No.-1 but recently I saw a reference to one made by the BRIDGEPORT BRASS CO. shortly before this one. I have also just seen a picture of a mic that was supposed to be made by Lucien Sharpe in 1850, years before the NO.-1 Is there any accurate information on these? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157524 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 14:33:42 Subject: Flux to heat treat? What I am gleaning is that the biggest problem with DIY heat treating is carbon getting seduced by O2. This makes me wonder if the casting flux we use for non-ferrous metals might be of use. By adjusting the ratio of borax to boric acid one can adjust the melting, and thereby the active point, of the flux, which forms a glass like coating on the work piece. This would also act as a temperature indicator. The fused flux/glass could then be picked off with citric acid. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157525 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-26 18:15:30 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Aside from saws that I buy to collect, the rest of the tools I buy > are with the intention of using. Having ebay available to find those > tools that I wouldn't be able to find otherwise is somewhat > satisfying to me. > > The thing about fleas is that you don't always get to select exactly > what you want, so you take what you find and in some cases end up with > less than desirable tools also. Since the prices can be less (not > always), maybe that is less important. I would rather not packrat a > warehouse full of tools, but rather a nice selection of usable tools > to use in my shop. My $0.02. > "Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. Compared to hunting down tools in the wild, ordering them on Ebay is a pale imitation at best. You just never know what you'll find at a flea market, like the rather rare Disston D-18 ($3) I found the other day. Or the 'Star and Crescent' era Simonds saw I posted about recently ($2). Almost all of the user tools I've got in the Magnetic Anomaly are from flea markets and tag sales. I like looking the tools over before I buy, also why I like the tool sales, like PATINA (March 11, Hot D*mn). I love the Underground Economy. No PayPal, no Visa, no checks, no money orders, just cold hard cash. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157526 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-02-26 18:35:42 Subject: Taber woodie, questions and pictures GG, Walking through the anteek boutique today and noticed a new booth. The owner had a few wooden planes, so I took a look. I have no experience with wooden planes but this one caught my eye. It's marked John M (maybe N) Taber, New Bedford. Questions: Anyone heard of the maker? Do nickers cut on the leading edge side of a skewed blade or the trailing edge side? Do filetster planes ususally have the body made of one piece of wood? This plane body is in two pieces. The wood looks as if probably from the same board. The escapement flows nicely between the parts of the body. Here are some pictures: Nicker and skewed blade http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3578 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3579 Escapement and attachment http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3580 Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157527 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-02-27 08:01:55 Subject: Brace find Galoots all, I recently submitted this pic for your perusal. *http://tinyurl.com/k36md *Neither brace appears to have any maker's marks. I'm curious as to why the smaller one is just that - smaller. Any-one in Galootland have an opinion? PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157528 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-02-26 16:17:54 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures Hi Mike, excellent plane, btw. I once looked up relevant historical info for Tabor, but I cannot find it now. The nicker scores the wood on the leading edge side. Mine also is a single piece. But here are links to my Tabor: http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister1.jpg http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister2.jpg Someone will probably provide the info. If not, I'll hunt it down on my mess of a desk. Take care, Mike > It's marked > John M (maybe N) Taber, New Bedford. > > Questions: > Anyone heard of the maker? > Do nickers cut on the leading edge side of a skewed blade or the > trailing edge side? > Do filetster planes ususally have the body made of one piece of > wood? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157529 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-26 19:26:12 Subject: Re: Brace find At 07:01 PM 2/26/2006, Peter Huisman wrote: >I recently submitted this pic for your >perusal. > >*http://tinyurl.com/k36md > >*Neither brace appears to >have any maker's marks. I'm curious >as to why the smaller one is just that - >smaller. > >Any-one in Galootland have an opinion? I was gonna answer if no one else did. Been my experience that those kind of octagon shaped chucks are usually found on German made braces. I have seen a few and they were marked Germany someplace. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157530 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-26 19:32:43 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures At 06:35 PM 2/26/2006, Mike Hamilton wrote: >GG, > >Walking through the anteek boutique today and noticed a new booth. >The owner had a few wooden planes, so I took a look. I have no >experience with wooden planes but this one caught my eye. It's marked >John M (maybe N) Taber, New Bedford. > >Questions: >Anyone heard of the maker? John M Taber was a plane maker from 1820-1872 >Do nickers cut on the leading edge side of a skewed blade or the >trailing edge side? Huh? The nicker iron edge should be flush with the side of the body as should the edge of the iron. >Do filetster planes ususally have the body made of one piece of wood? Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the fence and depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side mount for the fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane. Hope ya didn't spend all of this weeks lunch money on it......... Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157531 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-02-26 17:11:38 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures > Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the > fence and depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side > mount for the fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane. I disagree it is a user made/modified plane. It is identical in every respect to my example in my previous message. Though my pics don't show the bottom, the brass channels for the adjustment screws are also the same. >From my previous message: http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister1.jpg http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister2.jpg Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157532 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-02-26 16:13:47 Subject: Re: On the trapline--erratum Oops-- I woke up last night with the sudden realization that I typed 1959 for the National Geo article. It should have been _1989_. Sorry about that. And thanks for the responses. You guys are part of the family too. PK >>Here's the favor. Roger told me that there was a National Geographic >>article about trapping, including pictures of him sitting in that very >>cabin skinning martens. It was published in 1959. If anyone has access >>to National Geos that far back, I would really like to get a copy of the >>article. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157533 ---- From: "Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze" Date: 2006-02-26 20:15:04 Subject: Re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" Ben, Maybe it's a guy thing, but I could only get my GITette to pound nails, has never been interested in any sharp stuff, because "daddy always gets hurt too much". Here is something that any galoot should have for such occasions as yours in the video.... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/egsmaze@s.../detai- l?.dir=bc69&.dnm=3bdbre2.jpg&.src=ph I stumbled on these a few weeks ago at a Meijer, and thought it would be the perfect galoot accessory to keep in my toolbox with the chisels. I cut myself this morning taking a tab off of a pop can, and SWMBO asked if I was going to use one of the new bandaids, but I told they are reserved for "proper" shop accidents, like chisel, saw and plane iron cuts.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Mullin" To: "Oldtools" Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: [OldTools] Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" > Fellow Old Tool Folks, > > I'd like to announce my next video. This time it doesn't feature the > cute GIT, just me. Sorry about that. I finally succeeded in creating > what I'm calling a "Chisel Plow Plane". I'm not sure if that is an > accurate title or not. Basically its a block of wood that holds a 1/4" > chisel in such a way that I can plow a groove. I've seen something > similar on St. Roy's show. > > Anyhow, here is a link to the page that describes the project and the > video (9MB windows media format) showing the tool and me using it (and > cutting myself with it, doh). Thanks for looking and thanks for > hosting Wiktor. > > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/bMullin/galootmadetools/index.html > > Ben Who is going to head out and enjoy one of his other hobbies > tonight under the clear dark sky... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157534 ---- From: Chuck Taylor Date: 2006-02-26 17:42:46 Subject: Razor hones The recent thread about Franz Swaty razor hones motivated me to see what kind I have. Besides the Franz Swaty (Marburg, Austria) hone, I have two other kinds: Barber Junior The C-MON Hone, Peter J. Michels Inc., Brooklyn, NY The C-MON hone has two sides: One is grey and marked "Use this side first". The other is reddish and is marked "Finish honing on this side." The Barber Junior box says "Draw the Razor diagonally across the Hone as shown in cut. The amojnt of strokes necessary for putting a razor in A-1 shape depends entirely upon condition of the razor; ordinarily 4 to 6 strokes are sufficient. USE LATER--KEEP HONE CLEAN". Chuck Taylor North of Seattle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157535 ---- From: Benjamin Mullin Date: 2006-02-26 19:44:13 Subject: Re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" Oh, you mean my GIT's Minnie Mouse bandaide wasn't appropriate? Oops. I probably should get some bandaide's out there so I do more than just run and get a paper towel. A bandaide would probably have prevented the bleeding on the box. Ben Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze wrote: > Ben, > > Maybe it's a guy thing, but I could only get my GITette to pound > nails, has never been interested in any sharp stuff, because "daddy > always gets hurt too much". > > Here is something that any galoot should have for such occasions as > yours in the video.... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/egsmaze@s.../det- > ail?.dir=bc69&.dnm=3bdbre2.jpg&.src=ph > > > I stumbled on these a few weeks ago at a Meijer, and thought it would > be the perfect galoot accessory to keep in my toolbox with the > chisels. I cut myself this morning taking a tab off of a pop can, and > SWMBO asked if I was going to use one of the new bandaids, but I told > they are reserved for "proper" shop accidents, like chisel, saw and > plane iron cuts.... > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Mullin" > To: "Oldtools" Sent: > Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: [OldTools] Galoot Made > "Chisel Plow Plane" > > >> Fellow Old Tool Folks, >> >> I'd like to announce my next video. This time it doesn't feature the >> cute GIT, just me. Sorry about that. I finally succeeded in creating >> what I'm calling a "Chisel Plow Plane". I'm not sure if that is an >> accurate title or not. Basically its a block of wood that holds a >> 1/4" chisel in such a way that I can plow a groove. I've seen >> something similar on St. Roy's show. >> >> Anyhow, here is a link to the page that describes the project and the >> video (9MB windows media format) showing the tool and me using it >> (and cutting myself with it, doh). Thanks for looking and thanks for >> hosting Wiktor. >> >> http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/bMullin/galootmadetools/ind- >> ex.html >> >> Ben Who is going to head out and enjoy one of his other hobbies >> tonight under the clear dark sky... >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157536 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-26 18:33:08 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? On Sunday 26 February 2006 03:15 pm, Tom Price wrote: > "Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. Sure. > Compared to hunting down tools in the wild In the wild? Getting up early to go to a flea market so you can pick though "the wild" before another galoot? It's not as if you were finding them in someone's attic, most of you guys are buying old rusty tools that someone doesn't know the value of. Calling a flea market "the wild" is quite homorous actually.;-) Have to admit, I also like many new tools also. Lie-Nielsen planes, many new saws are fine tools (LN, Adria, Norse Woodsmith, Wenzloff, Hoff), as are many new chisels (Barr, LN, AI, Japanese of various brands, etc...). These are even easier to buy, you can get them in woodworking stores that are like supermarkets, work right out of the box, and provide a lifetime of usage in many cases. Many new tools are better mouse traps. As an example, I have a Stanley 65 boxwood marking gauge which I bought "in the wild" for $0.50. This was at a garage sale. Even after filing the marker flat as a cutter, my almost new Tite-Mark provide a much better tool, which is easier to use and the mark is much nicer. While I "brake for old tools", and stop at garage sales and drop by fleas when I see them, I haven't been able to find much in those places, and more so have spent more time and energy for the ROI I have been rewarded with. Other items will just most likely not be able to be found "in the wild". Where would I buy a perfect handle drawknife? How many have you seen in the wild? How many perfect handle ball pein hammers have you found in the wild? Don't get me wrong, there are certainly plenty of tools to be found out there, just that there are many that have very little chance, if any, of finding. I don't see any advantage of not buying old tools I see and like, no matter where I find them. And I buy some old tools from dealers also. Wether it's ebay, an old tool dealer, flea market, tool swap, collector, or whoever...I can accept finding tools from all of these resources. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157537 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 18:38:30 Subject: Re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" On 26 Feb 2006 at 19:44, Benjamin Mullin wrote: > Oh, you mean my GIT's Minnie Mouse bandaide wasn't appropriate? Oops. > > I probably should get some bandaide's out there so I do more than just > run and get a paper towel. A bandaide would probably have prevented the > bleeding on the box. Always keep pressure dressings in the shop! And a little tip I learned from an old jeweler about 32 years ago, turpentine will keep drill holes and saw cuts in the fingers from being sore the next day. DMSO is best for burns, but turpentine is a "counter irritant" and is great for those shop boo-boo's! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157538 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-02-27 14:01:22 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan et al, The way 'public liability' insurance is becoming alarmingly expensive for small flea market stall holders in Australia (presumably the US and UK as well) we may soon see the demise of these markets and swap meets etc. Maybe, one day soon, we will be calling eBay, the 'wild'. Peter B, in hot, humid, stormy NSW Australia Alan DuBoff wrote: >On Sunday 26 February 2006 03:15 pm, Tom Price wrote: > > >>"Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. >> >> >>Compared to hunting down tools in the wild >> >> > >In the wild? Getting up early to go to a flea market so you can pick though >"the wild" before another galoot? It's not as if you were finding them in >someone's attic, most of you guys are buying old rusty tools that someone >doesn't know the value of. > >Calling a flea market "the wild" is quite homorous actually.;- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157539 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-26 21:59:27 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? GG, E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been un-able to find in any other venue that I could afford. Heck, Peter McB, finds more interesting American tools in Australia, than I do in Oklahoma. So, I've bought tools from Australia, American tools. E-Bay is a great equalizer when you live in area's not rich in old tools... Some day I might even try selling a tool there...nah, I don't sell tools, I buy tools. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157540 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-02-26 20:04:55 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Hi Jim, It seems to me that the value of eBay and its appropriateness as a market for old tools depends in large part on your knowledge of the tool, the information you are presented with, and your tolerance for risk. My tolerance is pretty low, so I tend to stick to very low-bid stuff (I don't play poker and I don't bet on college basketball, either!). Even then, an item or a seller can fail to meet my expectations, and that's not nearly as fun as a great find at a local flea. Put that in contrast with the fairly low-risk terms of the porch, where fantastic galoots with regular FS lists are doing the legwork for you and taking the risk out of, um... building your cache of daily users. ;^) So consider this my plug for the porch. Long live FMM, no matter what day of the month you post your FS!!! Alex ... in Independence, Missouri Thinking that Sandy, Dan, and Bruce have all made it entirely too easy! ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim McVicar To: "oldtools@r..." Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:29:41 PM Subject: [OldTools] Is eBay a four-letter word? As a new galoot, I've noticed a few members mention eBay items they've purchased, with a bit of apprehension. It would appear that this auction site is the Harry Potter equivalent of "He who must not be named". I have several items I've picked up on You-Know-Where and have found it to be a great option since there is not an abundance of old tool resources in my area. If I drive for an hour, I can find high-priced antique shops. If I drive for four hours, I can find antique barns with better deals. If I stay put, I can hunt for great deals online and find items that are not available to me otherwise. This includes a beautiful rosewood and brass brace that I picked up for three dollars because it was missing the knob at the top. I had some rosewood in the shop and now I have a complete brace. Even with shipping, I kept it under $10. So, am I misinterpreting the timid references to "that auction site", or is there an interesting philosophy on old tools and "you know what" that you guys aren't sharing with me? Just curious. ----------------------------------------------- Jim McVicar Saint John, New Brunswick Canada's first incorporated city ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157541 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-26 20:09:03 Subject: Re: Tack(?) Hammer Use and Info > I recall buying boxes of "sterilized" blue steel tacks; Spitting tacks it was called in my neighborhood. Usually held between the lips and not loose inside the mouth. Carpet layers and upolstery. The straight billet, no adze eye, split end tack hammer has to be the most common pattern of all tack hammers. They made them forever even if it seemed to me they were always weakly magnetized. What'd ya want for a nickel ninety eight? They were cheapest. I'd love to find a real bill posters hammer sometime. With the 4 foot handle still attached, just to see how they carved them. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157542 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-02-26 20:46:08 Subject: Re: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? --- roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been > un-able > to find in any other venue that I could afford. Well said, Sir--- I lurked, sniped and glommed a type 4 #2 (tiny yet useful Stanley smoothing plane, Jeff, with about 150 years of use) in very decent user shape for less than $300 on the 'bay---IIRC---might have been closer to $200---in any case it's the most I ever spent on a handtool and the biggest bargain too. Right after I won the "auction" Patrick Leach pinged me to offer a somewhat nicer type 4 #2 for about three times the price (which I had expected to pay---someday) and I had to say "Thanks ever so much for keeping me in mind but I just bought one cheap off a blind widda." Patrick (if you're reading) I really do appreciate the 'heads up' and would've jumped at your price. And o'course, you gotta tap the iron from side to side, no lateral adjuster to do it backwards for you. best to you and all galoots; gAM in Seattle ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. Robert A Heinlein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157543 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-27 00:32:19 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Sunday 26 February 2006 03:15 pm, Tom Price wrote: >> "Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. > > Sure. > >> Compared to hunting down tools in the wild > > In the wild? Getting up early to go to a flea market so you can pick though > "the wild" before another galoot? It's not as if you were finding them in > someone's attic, most of you guys are buying old rusty tools that someone > doesn't know the value of. > Well, yeah, buying 'rusty' old tools that someone doesn't know the value of is pretty much the point of the whole experience, isn't it?. Like these 'rusty' old handsaws: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_handsaws.jpg These are a sampling of the low-priced ones. What I could get on my bench. Ok, the D-95 with the Victory logo was $25 and the mint D-8 I got at PATINA for $20. The whole pile averages out to ~$6 per. The streaks on the Atkins panel saw in the front are paraffin, a tip I picked up here on the porch. Here's a shot of a sampling of the 'rusty' old backsaws. Nothing over $6 in the pile (averages out to <$4). One Geo. Bishop, one Atkins and the rest Disstons. http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg Sources were PATINA, auctions and other local venues, and various flea markets and stores in Ohio. All users of course. Backup is important. They don't make them like they used to. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Got A Monkey On My Back That Taps Me On The Head Whenever It Sees A Disston The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157544 ---- From: "jeff strickland" Date: 2006-02-27 00:39:20 Subject: Question about a tool brand, and WTB Hello friends, I was digging around in my toolchest tonight, straightening up, doing a little maintenance... Anyway, I picked up my great grandfather's combination square. It's marked Steelcraft. I'm not familiar with that name. Can anyone tell me a little about the company and their quality? It seems like a nice square, and I use it a good bit. Also, I wanted to ask around and see if anyone has a #40 scrub plane, or a Millers Falls #1 shave or equivalent style shave that they would like to sell. Regards, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157545 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-02-27 16:13:28 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? ooh, err, ahh, goodness. I'm speechless. Tom Price wrote: > these 'rusty' old handsaws: > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_handsaws.jpg > The whole pile averages out to ~$6 per. > Here's a shot of a sampling of the 'rusty' old backsaws. Nothing over $6 > in the pile (averages out to <$4). > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg > Sources were PATINA, auctions and other local venues, and various flea > markets and stores in Ohio. After searching high and low, exploring the wilds, cruising the bay, I remain empty handed. Based on the prices I see, the local flea vendors seem to think that rust is gold. Postage on something like a handsaw would come to $15 so things on the bay are overpriced very easily. Six dollars. I can't believe it. aargh.. $4... mutter, mutter, grumble, grumble sobbing and crawling back into my place back in the far corner .... -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157546 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-26 22:39:14 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? On Sunday 26 February 2006 09:32 pm, Tom Price wrote: > Well, yeah, buying 'rusty' old tools that someone doesn't know the value > of is pretty much the point of the whole experience, isn't it?. Not exactly for me. Certainly everyone wants a good deal, and cost is relative, IMO. I have a couple sides. One side I want to fill my toolbox with a nice complimentary selection of tools. I don't want 8 Stanley no 5s and 2 Stanley no 4s because that's what I found at the flea. Hey, if I find what I wanted at the flea or garage sale, better yet. I don't find such a selection. I want to get to some of the tool swaps if I can get away, the last one in Aug. up here was not good time for me. Another side of me I like to collect backsaws, I've found saws that I wouldn't find otherwise, by using ebay. > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg Nice backsaws, but how is this any different than me buying a split-nut disston for $20 off ebay, especially one with a tight handle. Some saws require some work, I would be the first to admit, as you probably would yourself. Since it's not just about stockpiling tools for me, > Got A Monkey On My Back That Taps Me On The Head Whenever It Sees A > Disston Odd monkey, mine taps for all brands, but he mostly taps at backsaws. For that matter, I'm very much looking forward to kicking around a Wenzloff & Sons saw...(he keeps threatening;-). I know, not an old tool...but I like new tools also. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157547 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-02-27 17:43:48 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Peter, m'lad, You say > Six dollars. I can't believe it. aargh.. > > $4... mutter, mutter, grumble, grumble > > sobbing and crawling back into my place back in the far corner .... Try, say, the Caboolture flea from crack-o-dawn every Sunday except show-week (June?) Ask the dealers there where they vend their wares on Saturdays and then ask the other Saturday dealers when you go to another flea the following Saturday where they ply their trade on Sundays and you will find that most of rural South-east Queensland is alive with fleas every weekend with handsaws $A5.00 to $A8.00 if you appear neither anxious nor discerning. Preferred approach: "Any good for cutting a bit of wood with?" Walk away from anyone who tries to sell you a "collector's item". Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157548 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-02-27 20:53:21 Subject: Re: Galoot meets guitar builder, another slippery slope Hi all, Coincidently, I recently borrowed from my local library the October '05 Popular Mechanics magazine which has a two page article on Wayne Henderson. More pictures than story though! Peter B, NSW Australia Jim Cook wrote: >Hi All, > >Short version: met a now famous guitar builder, ordered a guitar. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157549 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 09:57:00 Subject: Addis information from the Hawley collection I was browsing the Hawley site: http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley which I knew had a micrometer article to reply to the question thereon. But I tripped over this: http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley/project/research/addis A preliminary history of Addis, put together from information in the Hawley archive. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157550 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 09:57:43 Subject: Re: micrometers A Mack wrote: > What was the first American made micrometer? I thought that it was the > Brown & Sharpe No.-1 but recently I saw a reference to one made by the > BRIDGEPORT BRASS CO. shortly before this one. I have also just seen > a picture of a mic that was supposed to be made by Lucien Sharpe in > 1850, years before the NO.-1 Is there any accurate information on these? Does this help? http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley/project/research/micrometers BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157551 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:00:24 Subject: Re: Brace find Anthony Seo wrote: > At 07:01 PM 2/26/2006, Peter Huisman wrote: > >> I recently submitted this pic for your >> perusal. >> >> *http://tinyurl.com/k36md >> >> *Neither brace appears to >> have any maker's marks. I'm curious >> as to why the smaller one is just that - >> smaller. >> >> Any-one in Galootland have an opinion? > > > I was gonna answer if no one else did. Been my experience that those > kind of octagon shaped chucks are usually found on German made braces. > I have seen a few and they were marked Germany someplace. Octagonal chucks are common on the better English made braces. These are more complex and expensive to make than a cylindrical knurled chuck. They give a better appearance and grip IMHO. And while I'm on. tiny braces (5") sweep are often called electrician's braces. I assume they were used for small holes and/or limited access. I use one to drive a countersink. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157552 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:03:01 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > > As an example, I have a Stanley 65 boxwood marking gauge which I bought "in > the wild" for $0.50. This was at a garage sale. Even after filing the marker > flat as a cutter, my almost new Tite-Mark provide a much better tool, which > is easier to use and the mark is much nicer. You just haven't expended an adequately uneconomic amount of time :-) http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2731 This make a mark every bit as good as a Tite Mark. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157553 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:11:39 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) Richard.Wilson@s... wrote: > The question arose about hacksaws. I think it was Scott who ended a > reply with something like 'anything bigger and I call in an > apprentice' - in other words, the old days of hacksawing huge lumps of > metal by hand have ended. Heh. Just think about the implications of the existence of... http://tinyurl.com/n75m7 http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/siteb- uilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://roseanti- quetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mfpage102103.jpg&ta- rget=tlx_new&title=Hack%20Saw%20Frames%20#%201237,%2099%20and%201934B The Millers Falls #24 - called a "rail saw" with a 10 1/4" capacity. Not to mention: http://tinyurl.com/f4ud2 http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/siteb- uilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://roseanti- quetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hickmanhacksaws4.jp- g&target=tlx_new&title=Lancashire%20metal%20Bow%20Saw%20Frame The Goodell bench hack saw, essetially a human powered "power" hack saw, and the Lever rail and girder saw... I bet those guys had big and/or sore arms! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157554 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:15:23 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) Richard.Wilson@s... wrote: > > Fretsaws, as bugbear mentioned, are set for a pull cut, again because the > frame can't remain rigid enough to do much else, and, luckily, the face > side is normally uppermost, where you can see the entry point of the blade > and the marked line. - You could say the same about your treadle bandsaw. It also means that most of the sawdust ends up on the side where your marked line ISN'T, which is good. A generic problem with pull saws is that the dust (tends to) get in the way of your mark. > So the good news is that you need at least 2 of each type of saw, each set > differently, and maybe more if you take different blade requirements into > account. Spoken like a proud member of the SGFH! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157555 ---- From: Jim Erdman Date: 2006-02-27 05:35:30 Subject: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. Someone must have found a stack of the books. I got my copy for not much more than that, but shipping from England added a bit to the total. Maybe I'll have to get an extra copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as many as I could afford, and sold them to galoots at a big profit. http://product.half.ebay.com/Making-Modifying-Woodworking- Tools_W0QQprZ2168984QQtgZvidetailsQQitemZ12602856140 Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157556 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-02-27 08:51:32 Subject: RE: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Yes, I just got a copy from them, found through a listing on my wish list on Amazon. Shipping was two weeks, but the book was in first-class condition. Tom Ellis Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim Erdman > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:36 AM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by > Jim Kingshott > > I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book > remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying > Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157557 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 13:56:14 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Jim Erdman wrote: > I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is > selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for > $12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. Someone must have found a stack > of the books. I got my copy for not much more than that, but shipping > from England added a bit to the total. Maybe I'll have to get an extra > copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as many as I could afford, > and sold them to galoots at a big profit. http://product.half.ebay.com/Making-Modifying-Woodworking- > Tools_W0QQprZ2168984QQtgZvidetailsQQitemZ12602856140 Makes this guy look an optimist. http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetailsPL?bi=652574994 he wants 125 USD!!! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157558 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-02-27 10:02:13 Subject: Inshave Handle Caps I picked up a small, rusty inshave on the weekend, for $5.00, at the flea market. The metal is quite thick, so removing the rust shouldn't be a problem. I can easily remove 1/64th of an inch without weakening the tool structure. The handles are the big issue. They are bone dry and splintering, with chips and chunks missing out of them. I plan to replace the handles but have been trying to wrap my head around the end caps. These are the caps that have a small hole in the middle where the tang passes through and then gets peened like a rivet. The options I'm considering are: - Grind the "rivet" part off, remove the caps, make the new handles slightly shorter (to allow me a bit of tang to peen) and put the caps back on. - Forget the caps and simply cut barbs in the tangs that will keep the handles attached (I'm assuming the tang inside the handles is not rusted). Keep in mind, I have not yet ventured into the world of blacksmithing. As usual, I am looking for, open to and appreciative of any wisdom from the porch. Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick Home of Canada's widest, shortest and steepest Main Street ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157559 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-27 07:46:06 Subject: Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, I need some help in naming a Toolmaker of the Month for OldToolsShop.com for March, 2006. Any suggestion will be appreciated. Please include link to the Website and any data if you have. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157560 ---- From: "Steve K" Date: 2006-02-27 09:54:35 Subject: Need help with 2 Yankee screwdrivers Hi everybody, I've got 2 Yaknee screwdrivers, each with a different problem. The first is a North Bros 31A, patented Dec 11.23. I cannot get bits to stay in the chuck/holder. The little steel nub inside is present but seems worn down. How can I take this thing apart and replace/fix the problem? The 2nd is a either a 130A or a 131A (can't remember right now). I've got a #2 Robertson bit in there now and I can't get it out. The sleeve on the chuck moves freely but the bit, she seems stuck real good. Advice? Suggestions? Oh yeah, are these supposed to be spring loaded and return to the extended position? If not, which models do have that feature? These both came as a part of a box lot of rust some time ago and I'm just starting to use them. Man, how did I ever live without ratching screwdrivers before? I love these things. Great stuff and another slippery slope. Thanks for your help, Steve Kubien Ajax, Ontario ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157561 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-02-27 09:28:18 Subject: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is not as popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the market is for odd Stanley pieces? Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company tools is deep. THCKK has a good website and active members, but that membership seems limited and aging. Are the younger collectors and users seeking out Hardware Company items? Regards, Steve - well known Millers Falls/ YANKEE / Disston man ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157562 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-02-27 12:13:08 Subject: Re: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers [and ebay] Steve wrote... > It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model > number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong > pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is not as > popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the market > is for odd Stanley pieces? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ My impression after selling many planes on ebay for the last 7 plus years the trend today is really growing into people collecting specific "Types" of planes. By types I mean planes of a certain time period as typed in the Walters Stanley book [and others I suppose]. Used to be good enough if the plane was a pre war plane or maybe a Sweet heart but today guys are trying to get a collection of say type 10s [made between 1907-1909] or type 11s [1910-1918] ...if the plane was made in 1906 or 1919 they don't want it ! Kind of funny but in my experance many of these guys still consider themselves to be the noble "Tool User" rather then that vile " Tool Collector" go figure on that one. .....I was just having a conversation the other day with another tool man about how the internet and the Ebay in particular has changed tool buying and collecting and one of the things was how easy it made it for so many people to get into it. Basicaly all it takes is a credit card and you can get what ever it is that you want or can afford [and a maybe on the afford, eh?] Befor this the idea of building a collection of only Stanley planes made between 1907 and 1909 would be rather daunting at the least but today could be done pretty easly with out leaving the comfort of your house....which is what many people are doing. With collectors like this the important thing is just what it is that they are buying and nothing wrong with that. Personaly I enjoy hunting in the wild of the flea markets and fighting in the trenches of the auction to get my stuff. .... No doubt about it the giant Ebay I think has been responsiable for many new people getting interested into old tools and becoming collectors and users of the same enabling them to find easly what they want No longer does a person that is interested in oldtools have to "work" for what they want as Ebays enables more people who just wants the tools to get them . A two edge sword for us all...More people interested in old tools but less out in the wild as more people are selling them on the ebay.Same for me, I do lots of selling on the Ebay and do very well but then I am sure some tools that I normaly would get instead get put on the ebay instead of get sold to me locally but then I get much more for what i sell now then I did when selling off ebay.This is a big problim with some antiques though I think with tools since it is such a specialised antique field and the fact that most sellers think they have so little worth it is a lesser worry to me.....Still lots of good tools waiting to get bagged ....Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157563 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-02-27 12:15:44 Subject: Re: micrometers Galoots, A Mack asked: "What was the first American made micrometer? I thought that it was the Brown & Sharpe No.-1 but recently I saw a reference to one made by the BRIDGEPORT BRASS CO. shortly before this one. I have also just seen a picture of a mic that was supposed to be made by Lucien Sharpe in 1850, years before the NO.-1 Is there any accurate information on these?" Bugbear provided a web site response giving some background and history on micrometers. But, I'd like to try to answer the question from another perspective. The basic question, "What was the first American made micrometer?", is not answerable IMHO. Add the word "practical" in front of "American" and the answer is J. R. Brown and Sharpe. They made it after seeing the French version of a micrometer called System Palmer (spelling?). It arguably improved on the French one, but was primarily made by them to satisfy the long standing metal gaging problems of the Waterbury Brass Association. It was called "A Pocket Sheet Metal Gage". I recognize it as the first practical (1857) American micrometer (and arguably the worlds first practical one) because it was massed produced, sold in large (relatively) numbers and made measurements in thousands something any fat fingered mechanic could accomplish repeatedly with the same results. Who made the first American micrometer? I won't give a name because I will likely be wrong. However, whenever the issue is decided in history, I'm betting it will be a clock maker working in some small clock shop on a side street. The clock shop of David and J.R. Brown had micro-meter measuring devices they made. I've seen others. I bet the Swiss clock makers had them much earlier. Also, to answer the question of who made the in first, one has to decide what a "micrometer" is. Is it something that measures in 1000ths or smaller of a meter? Does it have to be sort of "U" shaped with a thimble and barrel? Or can it be any vernier comparator that measures in parts of a meter and closes on the object being measured. What do you think? *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157564 ---- From: Paul Honore Date: 2006-02-27 12:33:33 Subject: Re: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers Steve Reynolds wrote: >It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model >number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong >pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is not as >popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the >market is for odd Stanley pieces? > > >Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company tools >is deep. THCKK has a good website and active members, but that >membership seems limited and aging. Are the younger collectors and >users seeking out Hardware Company items? > > > I'm not sure about Hardware Company items but I've noticed one thing at Spicer's Auctions. The average age of the crowd is probably 55+ years. There are a few younger guys of course but I think fewer young people get exposed to tools though IA classes in school and by observing their parents using them, etc. And most of what the younger folks see are power tools. I don't see tool collecting as a growing "hobby". Kind of like stamp collecting. When I was a kid, there were lots of hobbies like that. Nowadays kids seem to be consumed by Ipods, GameBoys and Instant Massaging. Too many distractions. Bah humbug. Paul Honore Hebron CT where it feels like the beginning of January, not March ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157565 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-02-27 09:33:25 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) > Richard.Wilson wrote: >> The question arose about hacksaws. I think it was Scott who ended >> a reply >> with something like 'anything bigger and I call in an apprentice' >> - in >> other words, the old days of hacksawing huge lumps of metal by >> hand have >> ended. And Paul Womack suggested that we . . > . . . think about the implications of the existence of... > http://tinyurl.com/n75m7 Yes--saw a railway rail in two by hand. But more to the subject line, note that all these MF catalog descriptions say that the "blades can be faced in four directions" (i.e., away from the frame either push or pull; or toward the inside of the frame either push or pull). IOW, the makers of these saws recognized either pull or push as viable options, and left it up to the user. Tom Holloway, in rainy Vacaville, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157566 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-27 12:52:30 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures At 08:11 PM 2/26/2006, Mike Wenzloff wrote: >>Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the >>fence and depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side >>mount for the fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane. > >I disagree it is a user made/modified plane. It is identical in >every respect to my example in my previous message. > From my previous message: >http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister1.jpg Well my guess on that was based on a couple of things. First look at the patina difference between the fence and the body http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3579 Having handled more than my share of fenced wooden planes, moving and sash fillesters, plows, and the bigger tongue & groove planes (called plank planes by some), I'd say in 99% of the cases the patina is consistent on all the wooden parts. That kind of difference in patina sets off alarm bells. >Though my pics don't show the bottom, the brass channels for the >adjustment screws are also the same. As I did say, it was a fillester fence would have the brass wear guides. The other point to be made is again, I've either sold or had in my hands at some point well over 150 moving fillesters in the past dozen years by American and English makers, I have never, ever seen one cobbled together like that. It's like Taber had a bunch of big skew rabbets sitting around unsold and decided to convert them to fillesters. Which could well be. The fact that there are 2 of them in existence could well mean they are original. Now if a third shows up... Tony (where winter has descendeth again) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157567 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-02-27 18:04:55 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Jim discovered a stack of Kingshott >I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is >selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for >$12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. I got my copy for not much more >than that, but shipping from England added a bit to the total. Maybe >I'll have to get an extra copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as >many as I could afford, and sold them to galoots at a big profit. >Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) Well, as the sponsor of the first bulk buy of these, back in the last century, I'd say go ahead - buy them all. There's been a steady call for these books on the list, even though I think I found homes for nearly a hundred of them. Shipping transcontinental is an issue, I found the whole thing cost me a (small) bit of money, but it's never been The Way Of The Porch to put personal gain before collective edification. Our recent appreciation of Wiktor's efforts shows that. The main thing is to stop them getting into the hands of folk who won't appreciate them. Buy ! Buy! Buy! Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot. Collective Book buy coordinator #1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157568 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-27 13:06:23 Subject: Re: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers At 10:28 AM 2/27/2006, Steve Reynolds wrote: >It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each >model number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some >strong pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is >not as popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how >strong the market is for odd Stanley pieces? Well not being much on the Stanley side of things, my perception, based on what I see stuff going for out on the 'Bay, is that most of it is selling for 50 to 80% of low book value. Oh you will see the odd burp here and there, but that is just what I see happening. (I do kinda keep a watch on prices so I don't do the old pay $50 for book value $100 item that is selling for $35 these days, been there done that, got that the scars to prove it). One of the locals here had an English Stanley 78 in the box go for $81, but had to try a couple of times to move a 113 Type 2 for $75. Don't make much sense to me at times. >Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company >tools is deep. Keen Kutter has been kind dead unless it's super super crispy and/or something very unusual. Winchester, the more common items have sort of slowed down, but the odd piece will go strong. I don't see too much else of anything else other than chisels and that's a whole 'nother ball game. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157569 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 10:09:14 Subject: Re: Inshave Caps/General Metalwork Jim Since the tangs were soft enough to pein the first time, they might be soft enough to "unpein". Namely, split off the remains of the old handles and support the bottom side of the washers over steel vise jaws. Take an appropriate punch, a tapered punch to start, and drive them back through. Heavy sure blows work better than little taps. Might not work and they might not give and you'll have to grind them off and shorten the tangs for the redo, but what have you got to lose? Might as well try it the easy way first. If the washers flatten out some, place the washer over a very large nut or mechanic's socket and redome with the ball end of a ball pein hammer. This is very easy unless you get your holddown fingers too close to the action and raise a fearful blood blister, so watch it! Otherwise a few sharp strokes does it. You can dome up any washer this way or cut some steel disks and make new ones from scratch if you need. Speaking of which, how many steel punches n chisels does the average Galoot keep, I wonder? I never counted mine but there has to 30 or 50 pounds of steel for this duty near my vice area. Punches of many, many sizes and configurations, chisels ground to many different cutting angles and several patterns and sizes, some grade 8 bolts vandalized into punches I could't find but needed anyway. Dozens at least. Teeny ones to huge ones. I keep the small ones handy in racks which are really just scraps of 2X4 with as many holes drilled close as I figure will still hold up as a piece of wood. 1/2" holes will do for a multitude of small punch sizes. They stretch out maybe 4' against the wall behind the vise bench. I found it easier to just drill through the 2X and place thin drawer liner stock over the back when done. You kind of need the whole 1 1/2" of support to keep the punches upright. The big ones I store below on a shelf with the business ends facing out so I can see them. I'm sure there are a few I've never even used. There are a few that routinely get hit hard several times a week over some job or other. Many just wait for their opportune, only-this-one-will-do, turn, which does come up. They are so unglamorous and so ungloatworthy, yet so indispensible. Like hammers, they are the backbone of simple metal work. I keep one larger vise to punish with the heavy action (6" jaws) and a smaller more precise vise in better shape for more delicate duty (3"). Regardless of the job I always try and see if I can do the work from the "off" side of the vise jaws initially. The off side for me would be the rt side since I'm left handed. Even a big steel vise will rack and wear on your best side faster than you'd like, so at least attempting to use the off side is always best since there are too many jobs I can only do on the -premium- corner of any vise. I try to favor that corner as much as possible. Oh, I scribed a thin wood shelf to lay tight against the wall behind the bench, filling any gap on the rough cement and tacked to the benchtop in front. This was after fishing with a magnet on a string way too many times getting whatever it was I dropped behind the cabinet, back up the hard way. Took less than 1/2 hr as I recall and definitely recommended! This steel vise bench, like my old first woodworking bench, is anchored to both the wall and floor for sheeza-no-move security. The woodbench has another of the same scribed wall hugging backshelves. It's amazing how many small things get crowded to the back of a bench and dissapear if you don't make sure they can't. Simonds made a hacksaw frame essentially the same as the Miller's Falls 1237 Bugbear just showed and I use one of those with a fine tooth blade for delicate work. It's a good heavy frame but the bakelite handle couldn't live forever. I used koa on mine. Sometime later they brought out the fully enclosed handle and I have one marked Proto and another marked Craftsman in the old jaggedy looking lettering. The Proto is still in pretty good shape but the Craftsman doesn't have a lot of nickel left and is sporting some crotch walnut handles since the plastic grips were in sad shape when I met it. These enclosed hacksaw handles save you a lot of skin on heavier work. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157570 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-02-27 10:14:11 Subject: Re: Inshave Handle Caps On Feb 27, 2006, at 6:02 AM, Jim McVicar wrote: > I picked up a small, rusty inshave . . . . I plan to replace the > handles but have been > trying to wrap my head around the end caps. These are the caps that > have a > small hole in the middle where the tang passes through and then > gets peened > like a rivet. The options I'm considering are: > - Grind the "rivet" part off, remove the caps, make the new handles > slightly > shorter (to allow me a bit of tang to peen) and put the caps back on. > - Forget the caps and simply cut barbs in the tangs that will keep the > handles attached (I'm assuming the tang inside the handles is not > rusted). Coupla notes on this vexing situation: On option 2, in use there will be a lot of pulling force exerted on the handles of this thing (sure it's not a scorp? ;-) and barbs on the tangs will likely strip before too long. Plus which the caps are "right" for this tool. Option 1 is a possibility, if you don't mind the handles being maybe 1/4" shorter than the original. You might also consider removing what's left of the original handles, and making new handles, shaping the bottom to fit inside the caps, which are left on the tang. Use a salvaged section of the old handle as a template. Once the handles are shaped, slit them lengthwise with a thin-kerfed saw. Then cut a square-cornered groove down the center of each half to accommodate the tangs exactly. If the tangs are tapered, taper the groove. That way the handles will not spin on the tang. Install the new handles by gluing the two halves together around the tang, fitted into the caps. If you have neither a lathe nor a section of used shovel handle around as raw material, you might browse the garden tools section of your local hardware or garden supply store for replacement handles of an appropriate diameter, that you could use as a raw material "blank" for the purpose at hand, cutting, carving and shaping as necessary Good luck, Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157571 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-02-27 13:35:08 Subject: RE: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers Listmom Steve raises a couple of interesting points: 1: >It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model number was a popular >thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense >that it is not as popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the market is for >odd Stanley pieces? By "odd Stanley tools" I assume Steve is talking about things other than rules, planes, chisels, levels, gages, etc--the tool groups that seem to attract large numbers of collectors. So maybe we're talking about mechanics tools, Four-Square tools, hammers, dibbles, screw drivers, etc. And I agree to a point. As Paul Honore pointed out (as have others) the tool collecting crowd tends to be an scenescent group, and maybe the maturity of their collections precludes much interest in the sorts of things they already have. But I remain surprised by the interest that sometimes meets "odd" Stanley tools" that I sometimes throw out on my Forsale list. For example a couple of weeks ago I listed a nice example of an ordinary pair of pliers, with a nice Stanley Sweetheart mark. Walter's old big book lists this thing as the No. 3 gripping pliers and puts a value of $20 to $80 (higher value to the SW mark). So, I put a price of $45 on it, figuring that seemed high to me. Guess what? I had to beat the prospective buyers off. I conclude that there are folks out there still looking for the oddball Stanley numbers. Which comes to Steve's second question: >Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company tools is >deep. THCKK has a >good website and active members, but that membership >seems limited and aging. Are the >younger collectors and users seeking out >Hardware Company items? Of course the classic hardware collectors are the guys and dolls looking for Keen Kutter and Winchester tools. Especially in the Mid-west I think that is still a fair market--particularly for the odd ball things (A Winchester lawn rake, for example). But other hardware companies might be Wilkinson, Riverside, Bigelow & Dowes, Sears Roebuck, Monkey Ward, etc. There are active collectors for all of these, but their numbers are not great and the their collections are pretty mature, so the demand is fairly slight. On the other hand, there are the old local hardware companys (stores) that populated every city and town in the U.S. Many of these had vanity marked tools for sale, and the collection of their tools presents worlds of opportunities for youthful collectors to explore. One of my dearest collection instincts is find store-marked examples of hand saws marked by hardware stores operating in my local city of New Bedford, Mass. So far I've found about 20 hand saws marked by four different stores from the 1870s to the early 1900s. And it has been double the fun to go to the local libraries and research these stores, tracking down their histories, dates of business, the types of saws they had special marked (Disston, Peace, Simonds) and locations of the stores. I've even been able to contact the descendents of a couple of the store owners, and learn first hand about their businesses. To my simple mind this opens a collecting avenue that might appeal to the younger tool hounds in our community of collectors. The ground is untouched, the tools are relatively cheap (and locally abundant), and the means for research is local and accessible. Best, Sandy (in Cold Massachusetts) Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157572 ---- From: Marvin Paisner Date: 2006-02-27 10:40:14 Subject: Re: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Richard and Galoots, Richard is modestly downplaying the amount of work and money he and his family put into sending a large number ( how many was it Richard?) of this amazing book to the far reaches of Galootdom. And all these years later here I am once again sending a sincere thank you for your effort. Here from the label he placed inside the cover are Richard's own words from 4 January 1998: ------------------------------------------------ "Here it is... International Galoot co-operation brings you... 'THE KINGSHOTT SOURCE' The Meisterwerk that nearly bankrupted me... The book that made me a neanderthal. Read, learn, enjoy and lock up your wallets.... Richard Wilson" -------------------------------------------------- thanks again Richard, Marvin Paisner Kootenay Lake, BC Richard.Wilson@s... wrote: >>Well, as the sponsor of the first bulk buy of these, back in the last >>century,.....snip....... I found the >>whole thing cost me a (small) bit of money, but it's never been The Way Of >>The Porch to put personal gain before collective edification. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157573 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-02-27 13:47:00 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures I've got to come down with my Brimfield Buddy, Tony, on this one. He wrote: >Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the fence and >depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side mount for the >fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane That was my first thought on looking at the pics. Fences from moving filetsters are not hard to find, as are the brass depth stops. Putting a slip side on a skew rabbet and then screwing the fence into it doesn't look very stable to my eyes--especially for such a careful plane maker as John Taber. Living in the epicenter of the Taber plane world, I see dozens of his planes every year, including several moving filetsters, and I've never seen this configuration. But one never knows for sure. For a guy who was in business for over 50 years, and who made thousands upon thousands of planes, it seems odd that, to my knowledge, a catalogue or price list of his planes has not turned up. Until one does, we can only guess. Best, Sandy Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157574 ---- From: "Paul Ferenchak" Date: 2006-02-27 13:52:00 Subject: RE: OldTools Digest, Vol 6, Issue 43 Looks like the Kingshott books were snagged. Anyone know where I might get one? Paul Ferenchak Bull Hill Farm 5695 Bull Hill Rd., Lafayette, NY 13084 (315)498-5429 www.bullhillfarm.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 05:35:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Erdman Subject: [OldTools] Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott To: oldtools Message-ID: <20060227133530.10284.qmail@w...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. Someone must have found a stack of the books. I got my copy for not much more than that, but shipping from England added a bit to the total. Maybe I'll have to get an extra copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as many as I could afford, and sold them to galoots at a big profit. http://product.half.ebay.com/Making-Modifying-Woodworking-Tools_W0QQprZ21689 84QQtgZvidetailsQQitemZ12602856140 Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157575 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 10:48:08 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) > descriptions say > that the "blades can be faced in four directions" (i.e., away from > the frame either > push or pull; or toward the inside of the frame either push or pull). Tom, I think that would be 8 directions. Teeth facing lt. - rt. - down from the frame (in the usual way) or up toward the frame on the square tangs which can be mounted any of 4 ways. Add pull stroke blade configuration and there are your 8 positions. yours, scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157576 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 11:20:14 Subject: Re: Collecting > I've noticed one thing at Spicer's Auctions. > The average age of the crowd is probably 55+ years. It might be slowing down now, but watch out for the next generation! It's been my experience that the mental ilness generally known as collecting, in whatever area, skips generations much more often that not. My grandparents collected, my parents would't be caught dead in an antique shop. Look what happened to me??? My sons would rather face a firing squad of drunken bohemians with 22 pistols, big clips of shells and dubious aim, .............or 7 pulpit pounding preachers in a small windowless room with no exit door, ............. than a smiling antique auctioneer grubbing up their life with musty old stuff. My grandchildren expect to paw through every single drawer, box, cupbord and shelf with great attention to detail, every visit. I've seen this time and again. Some of the hardware dealers of the last century specified and carried exqusite goods. These are currently the best deal for a poor boy like me (KK, HSB, Lakeside, Stilletto) and I never let one get away when I can snag em. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157577 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-02-27 13:15:16 Subject: Re: Inshave Caps/General Metalwork On Feb 27, 2006, at 10:09 AM, scott grandstaff wrote: (Hugely snipped) > > Speaking of which, how many steel punches n chisels does the average > Galoot keep, I wonder? I also wonder if I am the only one who owns "bullpins"? These are really big tapered punches used to line up holes in structural steel, but I have found a number of uses for them other than that. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157578 ---- From: Jerry Davis Date: 2006-02-27 16:22:55 Subject: Re: Need help with 2 Yankee screwdrivers "Steve K" wrote: > I've got 2 Yaknee screwdrivers, each with a different problem. The first is > a North Bros 31A, patented Dec 11.23. I cannot get bits to stay in the > chuck/holder. The little steel nub inside is present but seems worn down. > How can I take this thing apart and replace/fix the problem? It may just be stuck. I would use lots of penetrating oil and poke it with a nail or something to see if it will pop out. I don't have a clue about how to take the chuck apart. > The 2nd is a either a 130A or a 131A (can't remember right now). I've got a > #2 Robertson bit in there now and I can't get it out. The sleeve on the > chuck moves freely but the bit, she seems stuck real good. Advice? More penetrating oil and lots of patience. I've had a couple with stuck bits and wiggling, tugging and lubricating eventually freed them. > Suggestions? Oh yeah, are these supposed to be spring loaded and return to > the extended position? If not, which models do have that feature? The 30, 31 and 35 models do not have the return spring; models 130, 131 and 135 have the return spring. The A in the model number indicates it was made after about 1920 when Yankee made some internal parts stronger. > starting to use them. Man, how did I ever live without ratching > screwdrivers before? I love these things. Great stuff and another slippery They are hard to pass up. If it is a make or model I don't have, I can't resist. :-) A couple other observations: The el cheapo newer clear plastic handle variety is a good source of bits that fit the x35 and 133H. I find them in the used screwdriver boxes at the flea market, usually for $0.25. Stanley made bits and possibly Yankee, tell which model screwdriver they fit. Bits with part numbers 31xx fit the model 31, 30xx fits a model 30, etc. A possible no-brainer but I just noticed it recently... Jerry Griffin, GA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157579 ---- From: "Ken Meltsner" Date: 2006-02-27 15:42:53 Subject: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) hinge Just picked up a #18 block plane with the spiffy knuckle joint lever cap. Lever cap is in good user condition (very little plating left), but it's missing one of the hinge pins that supports the joint between the two cap pieces. The remaining pin looks like it was swaged on the outside, but I'm not sure how it was attached on the other end of the pin (the end nearest the center screw). Was it threaded on one end and then swaged to lock in place? Or was it flared/swaged on one end, inserted and then swaged. If I don't hear otherwise, I may just tap the inner piece and use a small pan-head screw for the pin. Or given the warnings at the Blood and Gore site, I'd be happy to trade it for a more recent knuckle cap if there's a desperate collector out there. Ken Meltsner -- Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but model train sets do a pretty good job as well -- 2/28/05, in a odd dream ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157580 ---- From: Marvin Paisner Date: 2006-02-27 14:01:22 Subject: Re: Inshave Handle Caps Jim & GGs The inshave handle style sounds very much like a drawknife I have which was manufactured by "Josiah Fowler Co. Ltd" of "St. John, N.B." ( that's how it's stamped Jim, not "Saint"). I also have a few bevel edge chisels by Fowler and I rate the quality of his steel as on a par with the best. Carefully clean and examine the tangs near where they bend for the handles and see if you can find a makers mark, maybe you have a Fowler. Mine were all found during my years on PEI. Looking at my tool I think if I had to redo the handles I would start by doing as Scott G. suggests and split the damaged wooden handles off, then I would see if there was a way to work the caps down away from the peened over tips without enlarging the hole in the metal cap. Even a sixteenth of an inch would be enough to let you grind or file off the peen without damaging the cap. If you could work the caps far enough down you might be able to hammer the peens back with a punch as has been suggested but I'm guessing the caps won't move very much without enlarging the hole. Anyhow, keep on the lookout for old edge tools with the Josiah Fowler mark, there must be a couple I missed ;^) Marv Paisner Kootenay Lake, BC Jim McVicar wrote: >I picked up a small, rusty inshave on the weekend, > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157581 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-02-27 18:43:20 Subject: Stanley #2 Lever Cap I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard to find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of months I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to try LN for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out if it will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you all know. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157582 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-27 18:14:41 Subject: Moulding plane Questions GG, As of the last two weeks I have started a head or wallet, first slide down this slope... As I currentky have no frame of reference, I am pondering how to go about meeting the goal of laying aside my routers in favor of moulding planes. Hence, I would like to hear from others about tactics... Do you follow any pattern in what to aquire (besides what you find)? Such as breaking profiles down into the various elements and then pursue the required shapes? Is there any such thing as a "core" group of planes that are needed in order to create traditionally shaped profiles. I should have aquired some reference marerial and answered these types of questions before starting to buy. But I wasn't planing to start on moulders for awhile... and I do have a Sandusky reprint on the way. Speaking of reference, what is a good primer, for using moulders? I'll get into the makers etc. later, right now I'm more interested in the basic use and care. Preferably an attainable book, not some classic thats gonna cost me a fortune.... TIA...on or off list, though I think this would make an interesting discussion... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157583 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-02-27 16:53:23 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions On 27 Feb 2006 at 18:14, roygriggs@v... wrote: > As I currentky have no frame of reference, I am pondering how to go > about meeting the goal of laying aside my routers in favor of > moulding planes. Hence, I would like to hear from others about > tactics... Hey guys, hooked us another one... > > Do you follow any pattern in what to aquire (besides what you find)? > Such as breaking profiles down into the various elements and then > pursue the required shapes? Is there any such thing as a "core" group > of planes that are needed in order to create traditionally shaped > profiles. As has been demonstrated a time or two by some of us, you can make most curves that you want using a set of hollows and rounds. It helps if you have something to "rough in" the pattern as a series of fillets or rectangular cuts, then use the H & R planes to make the curves. So that's a good start, but clearly it's easier to make an ogee with an ogee plane. Just letting you know it can be done without one if you are patient and creative. As with everything else, I'm a believer in "buy what you need to build what you want" (or maybe what she wants) rather than believing in some definition of an initial load-out. Everything depends on what you build. I certainly have H & R planes in sizes that are bigger than I would ever need, but sometimes you just get a heckofa deal. I'd go slow and be project- driven here. A set of side beads is a handy thing to have if you like to make beads along the edge of a board. Just remember that they are specialized planes and can't do other things than what they were designed for. This is the nature of molding planes, and why amusing things like the Stanley 55 combo plane were invented. Other useful variations of beading planes include center beads, torus beads, and astragals. You might pick one size like 3/8 inch and see if that fits your taste. You could probably go a long time without using a 3/4 inch beading plane unless you're doing architectural molding. More complex curves are fine things to have, but it's really hard to predict what you will need until you need it. So if you have a friend with a couple of hundred molding planes to sell, you can win the lottery and buy them all so you'll have a better shot at finding the plane you need in your shop, or else you can just acquire them as each project demands. Remember that these things are often kits, even more so than metal planes. I wouldn't go out and buy 50 at a time because you will soon be spending all your time refurbishing the planes. Not to say that you don't need 50 molding planes. I know I do. Don't forget that there are things usually classed as molding planes due to size and design, although some (e.g., Mike Dunbar) argue that they are really in a different class. I use tongue and groove pairs a lot, and have them in different sizes. Dado planes are good if you, well, like to make dadoes. You will of course, need some rabbet planes around. I'd just go with skew rabbets, as they can work cross-grain as well as with the grain. And a nice moving fillester is an enhancement on the skew rabbet theme, adding a fence and depth stop. > > I should have aquired some reference marerial and answered these > types of questions before starting to buy. But I wasn't planing to > start on moulders for awhile... and I do have a Sandusky reprint on > the way. Catalogs are very useful to get an idea of what was available. I'd get half a dozen different ones so you can answer questions when I'm too busy or on vacation :-). Just remember Ken's catalog rule: you have to own at least one tool from every catalog you own. Extra credit if you have one of everything, I suppose. That could take a while... > > Speaking of reference, what is a good primer, for using moulders? > I'll get into the makers etc. later, right now I'm more interested in > the basic use and care. Preferably an attainable book, not some > classic thats gonna cost me a fortune.... As far as care goes, I'd grab a copy of Dunbar's book: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_dun_2.htm Using a molding plane is pretty intuitive, but maybe I've been doing it too long. There are certainly things to watch out for, like gaping mouths, soles that aren't straight, irons that don't really belong with the plane you're thinking about buying, etc. Stick to dealers you know, and dealers that know what they are doing and much of this can be avoided. Or you can learn by doing and keep the woodstove going with your mistakes. I've bought a few dogs in my time, some of which I have learned to put right (a useful skill) and others I just chalked up to the acquisition of knowledge as to what not to do next time. Happily not too many. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157584 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-02-27 19:00:28 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Bill, I just pulled the L-N lever cap off my L-N No. 2 plane and tried it on a low knob Stanley No. 2. They are almost exactly the same size, except that the L-N is not quite as thick. Looks to me like it would work fine, unless the later No. 2 Stanleys were different. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rittner" To: Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:43 PM Subject: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap >I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard >to > find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of > months > I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to > try LN > for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out > if it > will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you > all > know. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157585 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-02-27 20:06:02 Subject: RE: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Bill, Please do let us know as I too have been looking for one for the past, oh, 10 years now. Guess I'm a cheapskate. Brian Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Bill Rittner > To: > Date: 2/27/2006 6:47:05 PM > Subject: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap > > I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard to > find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of months > I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to try LN > for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out if it > will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you all > know. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157586 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-02-27 20:52:43 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Thanks, Guess I'll be calling LN tomorrow. I've got several other #2s I sit around for, well, collectibles but the one I need the cap for is the one I inherited from my Grandfather. He used it to plane doors with. He was a small man in size not like his kids or grandkids. We all weighed in over 200 by the time we were in our late 30's. Anyway, the lever cap will allow me to set this one on the desk at work. I had thought about taking a cap off of one of the others but it didn't make since. I knew I'd find one sometime. I might go ahead and order a blade to go with it just so I can try to use it on occasion being my grandfather's, I think he would've appreciated it. Thanks, Brian Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Frank Sronce > To: > Date: 2/27/2006 8:00:21 PM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap > > Bill, > > I just pulled the L-N lever cap off my L-N No. 2 plane and tried it on a > low knob Stanley No. 2. They are almost exactly the same size, except > that the L-N is not quite as thick. Looks to me like it would work > fine, unless the later No. 2 Stanleys were different. > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Rittner" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:43 PM > Subject: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap > > > >I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard > >to > > find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of > > months > > I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to > > try LN > > for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out > > if it > > will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you > > all > > know. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157587 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-02-27 21:57:20 Subject: Hand Saw Blade Cleaning Tutorial Fellow Galoots Some time back I posted an article on Hand Saw Handle Cleaning and Refinishing on Wiktors web sites. I received quite a lot of good responses. I thought it only appropriate to follow up with cleaning the other end of the saw, the blade. Hand Saw Blade Cleaning Tutorial I hope you will check it out at www.oldtoolsshop.com/inTheShop/reTools/sawBlade/index.asp Bob Sturgeon in Kentuckiana ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157588 ---- From: "Ed O'Riordan" Date: 2006-02-27 21:59:24 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap A No. 3 lever cap is about 1 3/4 inches wide a No. 2 is about 1 5/8 inches wide. If you are really cheap, you can grind around 1/16th of an inch of each side of a No. 3 lever cap. I just checked and it appears that there is enough meat to allow it. The sides may be thin, but the contact point is at the front. I would imagine a No. 3 lever cap would be less than $25. It wouldn't be stock, but might look more factory than a LN if you work carefully. Something to think about. Ed O' >> I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard >> to >> find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of > months >> I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to >> try > LN >> for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out >> if it ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157589 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-02-27 21:18:28 Subject: flea mkt find >>>>> "roygriggs" == roygriggs writes: roygriggs> GG, Got another run a my flea dealer and the collection roygriggs> he bought, makes tool hunting easy...I'm broke by the roygriggs> time I leave his booth, so it's one stop and a little roygriggs> window shoping and then go home. roygriggs> http://tinyurl.com/zp6no roygriggs> Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... roygriggs> www.shavingsandsawdust.com roygriggs> -------------------------------------------------------- SWMBO took one look at the pictures and forbade me from going to fleas. Something about having a rather high feed bill this winter and needing to finish her kitchen. Nice find though. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157590 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-27 21:21:20 Subject: Re: Moulding Plane Questions GG, Thank you Ken, for the advice. you said... So if you have a friend with a couple of hundred molding planes to sell, Which happens to be my problem, but I can't afford all of them and am trying to figure how best to plunder the collection. So far I've gone mainly on condition, but with an eye on usefulness, smaller beaders, hollows and rounds, a couple complex moulders and a skew or two... As long as I don't have to have a catalog for each maker, I can live with Ken's catalog rule...Got Sandusky taken care of. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157591 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 20:11:21 Subject: Re: flea mkt find >SWMBO took one look at the pictures > Whattayoukidding me? Were you always suicidal? There is help available for this burning need to confess, you know yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157592 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-28 00:13:18 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > Since it's not just about stockpiling tools for me, Heh, heh. One man's 'stockpile' is another man's 'collection'. To SWMBO they are the 'pile o' tools' in your shop. Do you have more than two small backsaws, say 8 to 10"? None of the saws I showed were duplicates, BTW. Different lengths, medallions, models, etc.. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Got A Monkey On My Back That Taps Me On The Head Whenever It Sees A Disston The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157593 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-02-27 23:29:23 Subject: Re: flea mkt find >>>>> "scott" == scott grandstaff writes: >> SWMBO took one look at the pictures >> scott> Whattayoukidding me? Were you always suicidal? There is scott> help available for this burning need to confess, you know scott> yours, Scott scott> *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** scott> Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ Actually, Cait (SWMBO) really likes and appreciates the tools that I have acquired, it's the budget thing. She would actually like it if I could turn the "hobby" and woodworking that I do around the farm into a "job", so I don't have to drive to Austin (100 miles round trip - minimum) to work. Cait also worked for Woodhall, a subsidiary of McGee Frame Company. So she likes wood working as well. She also appreciates the theraputic action of spending time in my shop gives me. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157594 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-27 22:10:23 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? On Monday 27 February 2006 09:13 pm, Tom Price wrote: > Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Since it's not just about stockpiling tools for me, > > Heh, heh. One man's 'stockpile' is another man's 'collection'. To SWMBO > they are the 'pile o' tools' in your shop. Do you have more than two > small backsaws, say 8 to 10"? Oh sure, I have *mostly* 8"-10" saws. They're cheap to me, it doesn't matter. That's the one type of tool I collect, and mostly joinery saws. I don't own any large panel saws, or handsaws. I primarily collect backsaws. Some are investments, some are tools, some are just because...I don't need a reason to have them.;-) The reason Disston saws don't excite me much is that they're so common, with the exception of the rare ones, I have enough multiples. I want more makers, and finding a Diston split-nut joiners saw for $20 on ebay gives me the same thrill you might get at a flea spending $5-$10. This is a tool that is about 150 years old, and solid, which is rare. This is a great tool. > None of the saws I showed were duplicates, BTW. Different lengths, > medallions, models, etc.. Does this make you a collector or other?;-) You probably have more saws than me. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157595 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-02-28 02:33:51 Subject: Finished Sumpin' Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3582 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3583 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3584 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3585 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3586 Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157596 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-02-28 20:03:25 Subject: Re: Finished Sumpin' Chuck, Mmmm.......v-e-r-r-r-y nice indeedy !!!!! Brilliant!!! Peter B, Australia Chuck Myers wrote: > >Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I >know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157597 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-02-28 10:34:00 Subject: Re: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by (blushing) Marvin dredges up some long forgotten past. . >from the label he placed inside the cover are Richard's own words from >4 January 1998: >------------------------------------------------ >"Here it is... International Galoot co-operation brings you... >'THE KINGSHOTT SOURCE' >The Meisterwerk that nearly bankrupted me... The book that made me a >neanderthal. Read, learn, enjoy and lock up your wallets.... Let me see now, the book was in the library and I borrowed it. Then I needed my own copy. Then I needed some metalworking kit, so I had to buy a lathe ( to make adjusters ) I needed some metal, so a trip to AJ Reeves followed. ( Dunno if they have a web presence, but if they still exist, it's an amazing place ) Naturally, you're going to need some few files. And an anvil for better peening. Milling open the mouth would be less likely to suffer an accidental slip of the hacksaw or file, so a couple of milling cutters, and a compound angle vice will have to do, with a bench drill as the power source. If I see a way of slipping a milling machine in the back door I'll take it. Still working towards the forge for making the screwdrivers. . . Yep, I reckon that book cost me the best part of a thousand pounds ( About 15-1600 dollars back then Paddy ) - and still not done. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot, the poorer for reading Kingshott. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157598 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-28 12:42:39 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Jim Erdman wrote: > I just discovered ... "Making & Modifying > Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott I have to say... Whilst this book may have set many people on the road to altering tools there are "handier" simple tools in Robert Wearing's "Making Woodworking Aids and Devices". Further, I have no argument that Kingshott's book was the great original of making yer' own infill... But in subsequent years the wonders of the 'net have grown. I would contend there is better and easier to use reference material for infill planes on the web than in Kingshott's book. In short, I think it is now more of a historical note than a "live" reference. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157599 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-02-28 08:11:24 Subject: Making and Modifying Woodworking Machines galoots, Half.com still has the Jim Kingshott book. Type his name in at the "author" box and it will bring the book up. I got mine! Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157600 ---- From: Dan Miller Date: 2006-02-28 08:04:42 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions Hi Roy, Ken answered your questions very well, just thought I'd add my 2 cents... At 07:14 PM 2/27/2006, Roy wrote: > Do you follow any pattern in what to aquire (besides what you find)? >Such as breaking profiles down into the various elements and then pursue >the required shapes? Is there any such thing as a "core" group of planes >that are needed in order to create traditionally shaped profiles. A lot depends on what you are doing - are you making moldings for furniture, architectural work, or both? If just furniture, look for your profiles in the smaller sizes, considering the scale of your projects and the dimensions of your stock. Ken's comments on H&Rs and sidebeads are right on. It's easy and cheap to assemble a set of side beads, they are a lot of fun, easy to learn on, and its amazing how much such a simple profile can dress things up. The other thing to consider is style - i.e. are Roman or Grecian profiles more appropriate for your work, are you doing Shaker style, etc... In the long run you'll probably end up with lots of planes, theres lots of profiles, and lots of sizes of each. Right now I'm doing lots of house restoration, so I have acquired several profiles that match original trim pieces, various sash planes to repair and reproduce window sash, the side beads are getting a great work out and so on. But I'm always on the lookout for interesting planes, especially of sizes scaled for the furniture work I do. > I should have aquired some reference marerial and answered these types of >questions before starting to buy. But I wasn't planing to start on >moulders for awhile... and I do have a Sandusky reprint on the way. You can get a break on the price by buying the catalog reprint bundle from Astragal Press. > Speaking of reference, what is a good primer, for using moulders? Dunbar's book is right on, and John Whelan's "The Wooden Plane: Its History Form and Function" (http://www.astragalpress.com/wooden_plane.htm) is essential, nay Required, reading. Now you have to learn to use a sticking board. Cheers, Dan ______________________ Daniel Miller Dragonfly Canoe Works North Greenbush, NY http://dragonflycanoe.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157601 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-02-28 08:25:14 Subject: RE: Taber woodie, questions and pictures I have two Taber moving fillisters, and I took a good look at them last night. What immediately struck me was that there are three screws holding the side abutment in both Mike Wenzloff's plane and mine, while Mike Hamilton's plane has four screws to hold it on. My planes have nice blending of the different pieces of wood on both of them also. Being a Taber collector, I also have five or more Taber rabbits and they bear a striking resemblance to the core of the plane in question. I would have to lean toward the plane in question being modified by someone other than Taber, as I don't think that the fit and finish would have been up to the buyers standards of the time. P.S. Latest project? A relief carving of the battle standard Constantine used in his military conquests, "EL TOUTO NIKA". There truly is little separating a hobby and obsession. :^) Samuel L. Peterson Associate Director, MU Grants & Contracts Manager, UM Sponsored Programs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157602 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-02-28 10:23:13 Subject: Re: Finished Sumpin' Chuck Myers wrote: > >Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I >know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: > > > >Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is > > > > > Very nice! What finish did you use? Uh, the driveby on the planes was well done too. :) Tim Enjoying the overnight dusting of snow in nippy NJ. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157603 ---- From: Bill Ghio Date: 2006-02-28 10:30:46 Subject: FS: Studley Tool Chest Poster Redecorating and the framed - and famed - Studley tool chest poster has gotta go. I have no idea what this would do on the 'bay, but would rather see it go here. So here's the deal: $80.00 including shipping w/in the Continental US (anywhere else, actual shipping cost over $15.00). If you think my asking is too high, make me a contingent offer. See pics here: http://photobucket.com/albums/y225/bghio/ Bill On Maryland's Eastern Shore ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157604 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-02-28 09:37:09 Subject: Gristmill article, 1996 Hi all, I sent an email to the folks at the Gristmill last week (gristmill@m...) to check on availability of a back issue or copy of an article from a way's back. It looks as if the email bounced after being forwarded to heckel@a... (Dave Heckel, I'm guessing?). Does anyone have current contact info for the Gristmill editor, or does anyone have a September, 1996 issue they'd be willing to sell or copy? I'm looking for the O. Ramsey article on Atkins, "The Rise of the E. C. Atkins Saw Empire in Indianapolis." Thanks, Norm Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157605 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-28 08:54:22 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Waiting years for a lever cap? I waited, oh surely some days. Not years though. A cut n ground ordinary pattern lever cap in plate steel isn't any huge project. I even made a little lift lever like a regular one. Little bit o torch, drill, grinder, hacksaw, file. I pinned on a slip of old hacksaw blade with the teeth ground off for the little spring on the back. Just lay it out and then watch you don't cut too much with the torch to start off with or you'll end up slightly undersized after finishing, is my best advice. Of course it's not "original Stanley" if that matters much to you. I know it does to some. I had a couple other #2's I sold off to raise money for one thing and another. They were ordinary production models. The one I kept, and is my granddaughter's favorite, has a hang hole in the bed and replacement wood, blade n lever cap. Zapped, rejappaned, fettled up. Mine, except Nikole considers it hers. She doesn't seem to mind it as it fit her hands well, seen here when she was only 7, and cuts real easy. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/nik2.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/nik5.jpg yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157606 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-02-28 13:33:24 Subject: Lost an address/David Lucier David, Please ping me off-line. Paul in Normal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157607 ---- From: "S. Micah Salb" Date: 2006-02-28 15:00:33 Subject: Stair newell cap Guys, I have two newell posts in my home which I have built but which remain unfinished. I still need to make caps for them. I am envisioning a flat top with molded edges coming in at about a 45-degree angle (a sort-of Craftsman style). I am working with walnut (which is what we used for the railing). Here's my question: Without using an electric router to mold the edges, I would have to make molding and apply it to the cap. Well, that's easy enough. But then the top will show the grain with the molding attached, which seems somewhat inelegant (no?). I could apply some walnut veneer on top of it all, but I'm not sure I like that idea, either (both because I'd rather avoid using veneer, though I have it here to use, and because the thickness of the veneer will probably show on edge). Any thoughts? -Micah (Yes, yes, long forgotten, I know, but we march on in obscurity, laboring more for Hannah Banana -- now 7 months old -- than for myself. But then, again, I feel incredibly selfish laboring for Hannah, as any father knows....) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157608 ---- From: Kurt W Jensen Date: 2006-02-28 12:42:01 Subject: The clogging knife is here! So I got my clogging knife from the UPS guy just now and it looks great! It's basicly a 20" bar with a scissor edge, a handle, and a eyebolt welded on the bottom. See the great ascii art. ____________________________ eyebolt O-_______________________----- handle edge It's a different approach from the pics I later found and I can't wait till I can sit down & can use it. I have a real heavy board that I lugged back from Dominica a few years back that I'll use as a base and once I get it set up I'll be asking someone how to post pics of it in use. Kurt in Princeton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157609 ---- From: "Frank Filippone" Date: 2006-02-28 13:14:58 Subject: RE: Stanley #2 Lever Cap A lefty! Frank Filippone red735i@e... Mine, except Nikole considers it hers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157610 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-02-28 15:13:50 Subject: Re: Gristmill article, 1996 Norm, The latest issue of The Gristmill still lists Dave as the editor. They give a mailing address for him but no email address. The website (www.mwtca.org) lists admin@m... as one email for the association. It still lists gristmill@m... as the email address for the editor. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Wood" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:37 AM Subject: [OldTools] Gristmill article, 1996 > Hi all, > > I sent an email to the folks at the Gristmill last week > (gristmill@m...) to check on availability of a back issue > or copy of an article from a way's back. It looks as if the email > bounced after being forwarded to heckel@a... (Dave > Heckel, I'm guessing?). > > Does anyone have current contact info for the Gristmill > editor, or does anyone have a September, 1996 issue > they'd be willing to sell or copy? I'm looking for the > O. Ramsey article on Atkins, "The Rise of the E. C. Atkins > Saw Empire in Indianapolis." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157611 ---- From: "John" Date: 2006-03-01 08:38:42 Subject: Re: Flux to heat treat? Hi Spike If its hardening you are wanting then covering the item with anything can interfere with the heat transfer at quench and possibly not achieve the required hardness. >From my experience when hardening, the big problem is getting the part to the required temperature and ensuring that it is properly 'soaked', that is heated right thru. Depending on the steel the temperature range between too cool and too hot can be as narrow as 15 or 20 degrees C. In my opinion its when you overheat the steel or keep it heated for tool long that you run the biggest risk of carbon 'seduction'. So for critical parts the only sure way is a furnace with temperature control. Again my experience is with small parts (less than 30cm long) and heat treatment for hardening. If you are doing something different then the above may info be worth nothing to you. Good luck Cheers John B Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spike" To: "oldTools" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: [OldTools] Flux to heat treat? > What I am gleaning is that the biggest problem with DIY heat > treating is carbon getting seduced by O2. This makes me wonder if the > casting flux we use for non-ferrous metals might be of use. By > adjusting the ratio of borax to boric acid one can adjust the > melting, and thereby the active point, of the flux, which forms a > glass like coating on the work piece. This would also act as a > temperature indicator. The fused flux/glass could then be picked off > with citric acid. > > _____________ > > Spike Cornelius > PDX - Crazy for Shavings > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157612 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-02-28 13:53:57 Subject: Re: Stair newell cap You glue up 4 pieces, then cut the 4 bevels, then cut to length. The grain will all radiate out from center. On Feb 28, 2006, at 12:00 PM, S. Micah Salb wrote: > Guys, > > I have two newell posts in my home which I have built but which remain > unfinished. I still need to make caps for them. I am envisioning a > flat top with molded edges coming in at about a 45-degree angle (a > sort-of Craftsman style). I am working with walnut (which is what we > used for the railing). > > Here's my question: Without using an electric router to mold the > edges, I would have to make molding and apply it to the cap. Well, > that's easy enough. But then the top will show the grain with the > molding attached, which seems somewhat inelegant (no?). I could apply > some walnut veneer on top of it all, but I'm not sure I like that > idea, either (both because I'd rather avoid using veneer, though I > have it here to use, and because the thickness of the veneer will > probably show on edge). > > Any thoughts? > > -Micah > (Yes, yes, long forgotten, I know, but we march on in obscurity, > laboring more for Hannah Banana -- now 7 months old -- than for > myself. But then, again, I feel incredibly selfish laboring for > Hannah, as any father knows....) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157613 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-28 15:56:26 Subject: Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the Month - March 2006. In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools was selected. I am back to work.... Thanks for your help, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157614 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-02-28 17:51:12 Subject: SWMBO's Present Yesterday I messed up the little drawer on SWMBO's Valentines Present for the 7th time. I don't really know, I finally stopped counting. It was hard to work yesterday with the GIT dropping table legs down the steps at me. Finally today I decided to just dovetail some poplar together for it. Well the first one came out z shaped cause I put the tails on backwards on one side so finally I got one to work. They were even snug. Now to make a new drawer front. Maybe tomorrow. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157615 ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 2006-02-28 23:20:29 Subject: Re: Toolmaker of the Month Esteemed Galoots, Thank you very much for the recognition! I always enjoy making saws for fellow Galoots (here is where I started) and I'll keep on doing that. This seems to be my attention getting month as some of you probably noticed the result of the article in the current (April) issue of Fine Woodworking. Thanks again, Eddie Sirotich Adria Toolworks Inc. - High Quality Dovetail and Tenon saws http://www.AdriaTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > Hello All, > > The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the Month - March 2006. > > In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools was selected. > > I am back to work.... > > Thanks for your help, > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157616 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-02-28 23:33:24 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions Hi Roy, Good question and one I've been thinking about. Short answer: Side beads first followed by profiles that interest you. Thumbnails, OG, and quarter rounds are pretty common. Longer answer: this depends on what you want to do. Like Dan said, if you are doing architectural millwork you need bigger profiles. Bigger profiles = bigger dollars. If you are working on furniture, then the profiles are smaller. Ken mentioned H/Rs and I agree with him but it could be a while before you assemble a "set" if you are doing them one/two at a time. But 6 H/Rs could be all you need in sizes 6, 8, and 10 for example. You start getting into really complex and interesting shapes depending on the style of furniture you might want to build. Dunbar and Hack both comment on this in their books but I wish it was a better discussion. Mixing Roman and Greek profiles might not be harmonious on the same piece. But what do I know? SWMBO has the taste in this partnership. Question. Is there any reference book, spoken word, rule of thumb, any scrap of information available that talks about profiles appropriate to a period? I like Federal and Chippendale but don't know if my moulders are appropriate. How does a galoot find out? Very Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157617 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-02-28 23:39:19 Subject: Sash Making Planes GGs, The thread on moulding planes got me thinking about some future projects I will tackle in the next few years. One of these pipe dreams is a petite secretary a la Chippendale. Or a roughed-up, maybe mugged in a back alley kinda Chippendale depending no the skill level then. This secretary will have glass doors with divided lites and I'm not sure if you use a sash plane for making these doors or something else. With glass in any door frame on a period piece, you usually get a nice detail in the rail/stile. Is this made by a special type of sash plane or something else? Or have I gone batty? Very Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157618 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-01 00:10:31 Subject: Re: Gristmill article, 1996 The article you are looking for also appears in the book: The Best of the Gristmill 1974-1999. This book was sent to all members (I do believe). The article: The Rise of the E.C.Atkins Saw Empire in Indiana was attributed to Ken Wasson. -Wayne Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157619 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-28 19:27:54 Subject: Re: Finished Sumpin' Chuck Myers wrote: > > Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I > know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: > > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > > > Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is Mini? In what way? Yeah, nice driveby on those Shelves O' Planes. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157620 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-02-28 16:47:51 Subject: bagged a brace in the *bay wilderness. http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29392-2357-0? uid=360058&site=0&ver=EOIBSA080805&lk=ItemDescriptionANDimage&Item=62562 84382 it's a 6" keen kutter. to me, it looks a lot like a pexto 7000 series, which came in 6" sweep. any other suggestions as to origin? who else made kk braces besides (thanks, sandy!) ps&w? best, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157621 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-28 18:15:53 Subject: English Saws and Steel Hello All, For those who are interested in English saws and the steel they were made of, I posted an article from TATHS Newsletter. http://www.wkfinetools.com/history/England/index.asp Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157622 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-02-28 20:21:15 Subject: Two Dollah Table Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 saws, then I want to post a bench full of <$2 tools. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg Yep, Ken Greenberg, I paid less than $2 for that mint in the box Millers Falls No. 1950 Buck Rogers brace. Certainly, Bugbear, that is an ebony mallet. That sure is a D-12 panel saw, Richard. Hey, Todd, there's that $1 brass backed English tenon saw from the 1800s. Yes, Esquire Taggart, that is a lovely Richardson dovetail saw. No, Wicktor, that is not all of them, I got tons more of those Everlasting and Whitherby chisels in the drawer for less than $2. Correct, Millrat, never paid more than a buck for sharp files and rasps, including the small patternmaker's type. Sorry, Scott, didn't have time to round up all the clamps. It is true, Chris, that those two indexes were the only ones that cost a buck. Regards, Steve - Just say, can't wait to see what the rest of you Galoots post as a followup, because I know a lot of you are pillaging garage sales, auctions and fleamarkets to get those cheap tools in the wild ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157623 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-02-28 20:36:54 Subject: RE: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Hmmm... I scored my #2 (Don't recollect the type right now) at an anteek maul for $85. Does that count as "the wild"? ;-) ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart - I wuz gonna sell it on that there e-Bay thing, but once I got it home and wiped the dust off'n it, it were just too purty, so I hadda keep it. ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of gary may > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:46 PM > To: roygriggs@v...; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:Is eBay a four-letter word? > > > --- roygriggs@v... wrote: > > > GG, > > E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been > > un-able to find in any other venue that I could afford. > > Well said, Sir--- > I lurked, sniped and glommed a type 4 #2 (tiny yet useful > Stanley smoothing plane, Jeff, with about 150 years of use) > in very decent user shape for less than $300 on the > 'bay---IIRC---might have been closer to $200---in any case > it's the most I ever spent on a handtool > and the biggest bargain too. Right after I won the "auction" > Patrick Leach pinged me to offer a somewhat nicer type 4 #2 > for about three times the price (which I had expected to > pay---someday) and I had to say "Thanks ever so much for > keeping me in mind but I just bought one cheap off a blind widda." > Patrick (if you're reading) I really do appreciate the > 'heads up' and would've jumped at your price. > And o'course, you gotta tap the iron from side to side, no > lateral adjuster to do it backwards for you. > best to you and all galoots; gAM in Seattle > > > > > > ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. > Robert A Heinlein > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157624 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-02-28 20:39:07 Subject: RE: Is eBay a four-letter word? Daddy's got a saw problem... ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > > Well, yeah, buying 'rusty' old tools that someone doesn't > know the value > of is pretty much the point of the whole experience, isn't it?. Like > these 'rusty' old handsaws: > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_handsaws.jpg > > > Here's a shot of a sampling of the 'rusty' old backsaws. > Nothing over $6 > in the pile (averages out to <$4). One Geo. Bishop, one > Atkins and the > rest Disstons. > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157625 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-28 18:47:38 Subject: RE: Two Dollah Table OK Steve, Start packing all this stuff, my address is below... You have other, more important things to do then play with the old junk. Start with Witherby.... Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Reynolds > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:21 PM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Two Dollah Table > > Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 > saws, then I want to post a bench full of <$2 tools. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg > > Yep, Ken Greenberg, I paid less than $2 for that mint > in the box Millers Falls No. 1950 Buck Rogers brace. > > Certainly, Bugbear, that is an ebony mallet. > > That sure is a D-12 panel saw, Richard. > > Hey, Todd, there's that $1 brass backed English tenon > saw from the 1800s. > > Yes, Esquire Taggart, that is a lovely Richardson dovetail saw. > > No, Wicktor, that is not all of them, I got tons more > of those Everlasting and Whitherby chisels in the drawer for > less than $2. > > Correct, Millrat, never paid more than a buck for sharp > files and rasps, including the small patternmaker's type. > > Sorry, Scott, didn't have time to round up all the clamps. > > It is true, Chris, that those two indexes were the only > ones that cost a buck. > > > > > > Regards, > Steve - Just say, can't wait to see what the rest of you > Galoots post as a followup, because I know a lot of you are > pillaging garage sales, auctions and fleamarkets to get those > cheap tools in the wild > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157626 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-02-28 21:43:19 Subject: re: Making and Modifying Woodworking Machines Phil E offered: Half.com still has the Jim Kingshott book... ABE had the same listing and yesterday I ordered it. Today I got the temporarily out of stock message. They claim they will be able to ship in 'no more than' 60 days. Another snap purchase put on hold..... Regards, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157627 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-02-28 22:00:42 Subject: RE: Two Dollah Table OK Everyone!! All together now!! Steve: You ssuuuuu ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Reynolds > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:21 PM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Two Dollah Table > > > Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 > saws, then I want > to post a bench full of <$2 tools. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg > > Yep, Ken Greenberg, I paid less than $2 for that mint > in the box > Millers Falls No. 1950 Buck Rogers brace. > > Certainly, Bugbear, that is an ebony mallet. > > That sure is a D-12 panel saw, Richard. > > Hey, Todd, there's that $1 brass backed English tenon > saw from the > 1800s. > > Yes, Esquire Taggart, that is a lovely Richardson dovetail saw. > > No, Wicktor, that is not all of them, I got tons more of those > Everlasting and Whitherby chisels in the drawer for less than $2. > > Correct, Millrat, never paid more than a buck for sharp > files and > rasps, including the small patternmaker's type. > > Sorry, Scott, didn't have time to round up all the clamps. > > It is true, Chris, that those two indexes were the only > ones that > cost a buck. > > > > > > Regards, > Steve - Just say, can't wait to see what the rest of you Galoots post > as a followup, because I know a lot of you are pillaging > garage sales, > auctions and fleamarkets to get those cheap tools in the wild > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157628 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-02-28 21:46:58 Subject: Re: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? I think it's hit and miss. I often don't see any deals on an item I'm looking for. Buy occasionally you get lucky. I got two antique carpeter saws for < $15 shipped. I do need to probably do some restoration on them but it will be a good learning experience. I've had no luck finding a deal on a planer. Wendy On Tuesday 28 February 2006 08:36 pm, Bill Taggart wrote: > Hmmm... > > I scored my #2 (Don't recollect the type right now) at an anteek maul for > $85. > > Does that count as "the wild"? ;-) > > ----------------------------------------- > Bill Taggart > - I wuz gonna sell it on that there e-Bay thing, but once I got it home and > wiped the dust off'n it, it were just too purty, so I hadda keep it. > ----------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of gary may > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:46 PM > > To: roygriggs@v...; oldtools@r... > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:Is eBay a four-letter word? > > > > --- roygriggs@v... wrote: > > > GG, > > > E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been > > > un-able to find in any other venue that I could afford. > > > > Well said, Sir--- > > I lurked, sniped and glommed a type 4 #2 (tiny yet useful > > Stanley smoothing plane, Jeff, with about 150 years of use) > > in very decent user shape for less than $300 on the > > 'bay---IIRC---might have been closer to $200---in any case > > it's the most I ever spent on a handtool > > and the biggest bargain too. Right after I won the "auction" > > Patrick Leach pinged me to offer a somewhat nicer type 4 #2 > > for about three times the price (which I had expected to > > pay---someday) and I had to say "Thanks ever so much for > > keeping me in mind but I just bought one cheap off a blind widda." > > Patrick (if you're reading) I really do appreciate the > > 'heads up' and would've jumped at your price. > > And o'course, you gotta tap the iron from side to side, no > > lateral adjuster to do it backwards for you. > > best to you and all galoots; gAM in Seattle > > > > > > > > > > > > ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. > > Robert A Heinlein > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > > history, usage, value, location, availability, > > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > > especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > > > OldTools archive: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157629 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-02-28 22:13:58 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table Hi, Steve and all I have a two dollah table too --- bought it about 1960 from an old lady who said that her father bought it when she was a little girl and told her then that it was an antique. It was a mess with many thick layers of old paint. When I got it stripped. it was all solid cherry with a top of wide boards and nicely turned legs. It has been our kitchen table ever since. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157630 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-02-28 19:18:42 Subject: RE: Finished Sumpin' Chuck - very nice. Congratulations! Lew Soloway also, in So Cal, but no longer rainy (I hope) -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Myers [mailto:otl@I...ProcessSolutions.com] Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:34 PM To: 'Oldtools' Subject: [OldTools] Finished Sumpin' Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3582 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3583 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3584 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3585 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3586 Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157631 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-28 21:28:11 Subject: Re: Is EBay a four letter word? GG, At this point I humbly bow my head, and cry...I haven't even found any good deals, yet....but wait.. Is this like the hardware store $2 table, I can buy anthing on the table for $2..... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157632 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-02-28 22:30:22 Subject: Re: A.J.Wilkinson Hi, Muellers and others A. J. Wilkinson was a wonderful hardware store on lower Washington St.in Boston. In the 1940's and '50's I looked for excuses to go there. It was a vast, rambling place, including a basement that few customers ever saw. Down there was the place for raw materials like brass tubing and tool steel. I think that my last purchase was about 1970 --- tung oil. Earlier it was the place for twist drills in sizes smaller than 60, or a left-handed tap. They also comissioned tools to be made and sold under their name. I have a beautiful set of patternmaker's chisels, which are stamped with "A. J. Wilkinson" but were, I think, made by Buck Bros. What a nostalgia trip this question has inspired! Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157633 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-02-28 22:40:23 Subject: RE: Toolmaker of the Month Once again, congratulations! I love my/your dovetail saw! Jim in Charlotte NC > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Eddie Sirotich > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:20 PM > To: Wiktor A. Kuc > Cc: 'Oldtools' > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Toolmaker of the Month > > Esteemed Galoots, > > Thank you very much for the recognition! I always enjoy > making saws for fellow Galoots (here is where I started) and > I'll keep on doing that. > > This seems to be my attention getting month as some of you > probably noticed the result of the article in the current > (April) issue of Fine Woodworking. > > Thanks again, > > Eddie Sirotich > > Adria Toolworks Inc. - High Quality Dovetail and Tenon saws > http://www.AdriaTools.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the > Month - March 2006. > > > > In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools > was selected. > > > > I am back to work.... > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > Wiktor A. Kuc > > Albuquerque, NM > > 505-323-8482 > > www.OldToolsShop.com > > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of > hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157634 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-02-28 22:54:37 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table Steve wrote.... > Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 saws, then I want to > post a bench full of <$2 tools. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pretty good Steve but $2 !?....Geee...I was going to post some pictures of those Yankee Screw eye holders, Mint Yankee bits and the Swedish Barrel Knife, you overlooked at the Flea market the other week and that I got out of the .50 cent box after you left but I already sold them all on the ebay ...[for a little under $300!] .....Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157635 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-01 15:09:47 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table Hi all, Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw in the picture? Found one at a grage sale a week ago in the 'free tools' box! The man was selling cheap and nasty Chinese/Taiwanese tools for stupid prices but had a whole lot of 'goodies' in his freebie box. Thanks in advance Peter B, in very wet and stormy NSW, Australia http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157636 ---- From: Darrell & Kathy Date: 2006-02-28 23:24:10 Subject: getting a handle on things... Galoots, I was puttering about in the shop on the weekend and I decided to clean up that rusty old drawknife I picked up at the Tools Of The Trade sale last October. Rusty indeed. The blade wasn't too bad. But the tangs were seriously rusted. Beyond pitting, and into flaking nasty vileness. The handles had long since been eaten by bugs and slime, so new handles were in order. I scrubbed the blade with a wire brush, and proceeded to drawfile a new edge. From there, some work with sandpaper on a stick, with the drawknife clamped to then edge of the workbench, produced a decent edge. I had to dock the ends of the tangs. The rust had pretty much destroyed the tips. A friend had given me a hunk of grenadilla (?) something greenish, hard, dense and exotic. Looked like good tool handle material. I used my Greenlee drawknife as an example when I turned the new handles. Don't you just *hate* when you're turning the second handle, and it needs one more pass to get it down to the diameter of the first one, when you get a nasty catch? And there's no more of that wood around? I cut a couple of copper rings (3/4 inch pipe) for ferrules, drilled a series of stepped holes, and drove the new handles on. I suppose I should've burned them in, but the torch wasn't near at hand. Mashed a birch offcut on the vise and gave the new knife a quick test run. It works just fine. This will come in real handy next summer making buckets up at the cottage. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3756.JPG -- Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157637 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-02-28 22:54:34 Subject: Re: Re: Gristmill article, 1996 Whoops, I responded to Wayne, should have included the list. Looks like I've found a source for the article. Thanks very much to everyone who generously offered help and suggestions. Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado On 01 Mar., wayne.a.anderson@a... wrote: > The article you are looking for also appears in the book: The > Best of the Gristmill 1974-1999. This book was sent to all members > (I do believe). The article: The Rise of the E.C.Atkins Saw Empire in > Indiana was attributed to Ken Wasson. -Wayne Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157638 ---- From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Date: 2006-03-01 01:43:06 Subject: What is - Paraffin Oil? "Behlen Paraffin Oil" Suppose I have a container of Pumice Stone - and it says I should use it with this "paraffin oil". Suppose that the nearest store that might have a specific brand name "paraffin oil" is 120 miles away. Suppose..... suppose that I might have something else that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157639 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-01 17:58:59 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table Peter B writes: > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > in the picture? It strikes me that the heavy blade, which appears to have a sharp edge along its length, is somewhat similar to a glazier's hacking knife which is used, with a hammer, for removing old, hard putty from window frames etc. More modern hacking knives simply have a pair of scales riveted to the full width tang. The thick back edge copes with hammer blows. My tuppence worth. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157640 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-01 18:11:36 Subject: Re: What is - Paraffin Oil? Thomas W. Hoyt writes: > "Behlen Paraffin Oil" > > Suppose I have a container of Pumice Stone - and it says I should use > it with this "paraffin oil". > > Suppose that the nearest store that might have a specific brand name > "paraffin oil" is 120 miles away. > > Suppose..... > > suppose that I might have something else that would be much > like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? > > > I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that > belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good > 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Paraffin is a Pommy word for kerosene but paraffin oil, in my youth, used to be sold by chemists (pharmacists, drugstores) for much the same purpose as castor oil, to wit, keeping small boys' pipes (guts) shiny and unclogged. A useful expedient in wartime's shortages. Most unwelcome by the average boy. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157641 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-01 09:14:49 Subject: Re: Stair newell cap S. Micah Salb wrote: > > Here's my question: Without using an electric router to mold the edges, > I would have to make molding and apply it to the cap. Well, that's easy > enough. But then the top will show the grain with the molding attached, > which seems somewhat inelegant (no?). I could apply some walnut veneer > on top of it all, but I'm not sure I like that idea, either (both > because I'd rather avoid using veneer, though I have it here to use, and > because the thickness of the veneer will probably show on edge). Doesn't have to; if you quartered the top in veneer and then applied edge moulding, no end grain would show. +---------+ |\ /| | \ / | | \ / | | \ / | | o | | / \ | | / \ | | / \ | |/ \| +---------+ Might be a bit fancy though. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157642 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-01 09:20:46 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table Peter B wrote: > Hi all, > > Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > in the picture? > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg "Pig sticker" mortice chisel. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157643 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-01 06:11:07 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table On Feb 28, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Todd Hughes wrote: > > Pretty good Steve but $2 !?....Geee...I was going to post some > pictures of those Yankee Screw eye holders, Mint Yankee bits and the > Swedish Barrel Knife, you overlooked at the Flea market the other week > and that I got out of the .50 cent box after you left but I already > sold them all on the ebay ...[for a little under $300!] .....Todd > I meant to leave those there, yeah, that's it. And I bet you would prefer the brass backed saw, too. (mutter, mutter, talk about a guy who suc....) Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157644 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-01 07:50:52 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table Peter, It's a very nice looking heavy duty mortising chisel - referred to often as a pigsticker. I have a few, but none that came from a $2 table - or a freebie box. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter B" To: "'Old Tools List'" Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: [OldTools] Re: Two Dollah Table > Hi all, > > Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > in the picture? > > Found one at a grage sale a week ago in the 'free tools' box! > The man was selling cheap and nasty Chinese/Taiwanese tools for stupid > prices but had > a whole lot of 'goodies' in his freebie box. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157645 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-01 08:12:44 Subject: Stick Trap? http://tinyurl.com/h8ree Stick traps, whazzem den? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157646 ---- From: "George Wallace" Date: 2006-03-01 06:41:24 Subject: RE: What is - Paraffin Oil? Tom, Mineral oil works just fine. Assuming you are using a finish that isn't water soluble, water will work also. Just be careful with water. I find the pumice cuts faster using it. George George Wallace Rocky Mountain Fine Furniture 11440 Andasol Ave Granada Hills, CA 91344 818-363-3385 415-672-0517 georgew@r... www.rockymountainfinefurniture.com -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Thomas W. Hoyt Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:43 PM To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] What is - Paraffin Oil? "Behlen Paraffin Oil" Suppose I have a container of Pumice Stone - and it says I should use it with this "paraffin oil". Suppose that the nearest store that might have a specific brand name "paraffin oil" is 120 miles away. Suppose..... suppose that I might have something else that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157647 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-03-01 15:03:34 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions GGs and Roy, I forgot that I had bookmarked this link while out looking for traditional moulding profiles. Here's some useful, if somewhat overwhelming, information: http://www.traditional-building.com/article/moldings.htm Very Best Regards to All, Pete Mueller GPP, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157648 ---- From: Russell Ellsworth Date: 2006-03-01 09:10:54 Subject: Re: Toolmaker of the Month This was sent to Jim only!! The mad button pusher strikes. Ditto on my (your?) saw(s!)!! On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:40 PM, Jim Bellina wrote: > Once again, congratulations! I love my/your dovetail saw! > > Jim in Charlotte NC > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: oldtools-bounces@r... >> [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of >> Eddie Sirotich >> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:20 PM >> To: Wiktor A. Kuc >> Cc: 'Oldtools' >> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Toolmaker of the Month >> >> Esteemed Galoots, >> >> Thank you very much for the recognition! I always enjoy >> making saws for fellow Galoots (here is where I started) and >> I'll keep on doing that. >> >> This seems to be my attention getting month as some of you >> probably noticed the result of the article in the current >> (April) issue of Fine Woodworking. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Eddie Sirotich >> >> Adria Toolworks Inc. - High Quality Dovetail and Tenon saws >> http://www.AdriaTools.com >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >> >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the >> Month - March 2006. >>> >>> In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools >> was selected. >>> >>> I am back to work.... >>> >>> Thanks for your help, >>> >>> Wiktor A. Kuc >>> Albuquerque, NM >>> 505-323-8482 >>> www.OldToolsShop.com >>> www.wkFineTools.com >>> >>> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >>> -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of >> hand tool >>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, >>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >>> >>> To read the FAQ: >>> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >>> >>> OldTools archive: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >>> >>> OldTools@r... >>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand >> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, value, location, availability, >> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, >> especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157649 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-03-01 19:10:38 Subject: Re: What is - Paraffin Oil? Thomas asked about paraffin oil, suppose that I might have something else that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Parafinne oil is used as an lubricant you could also use linseed oil the linseed oil will collour your wood a little bit browner but it was used in early nineteenth century by cabinetmakers and French polishers. In the restoration field it is used as the lubricant with french polishing. I rather use Polish oil from Zweihorn a German manufacturer of products for the furniture makers. In some articles Paraffin is mentioned to be used as an oil for finishing Maple but the oil is a non drying oil so it will allways be a little bit greassy and it will attract dust. It is possible to use Paraffine on cutting blocks used in the kitchen. The advantage for using this Paraffine is that it is an odourless and non toxic oil. For using pumice stone as a pore filler you can read the following books: The complete manual of wood finishing by Frederick Oughten (publ. Stobart Davies) Classic Finishing Techniques by Sam Allen (publ. Sterling) French Polishing by Phillipa Barstow and Alan Waterhouse (publ. Batsford) And my most favorite one: The First American Furniture Finishers Manual which is an Reprint of The Cabinet-Makers Guide of 1827 which is edited by Robert D. Mussey Jr.( Dover publications) and it costs me in 1995 $ 5.99 This book contains a lot of recipe's and also a lot off poisonous chemicals used in all kinds of finishing techniques. Kind regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157650 ---- From: "Thomas R. Bruce" Date: 2006-03-01 13:28:58 Subject: [Fwd: [workingtools] Cheney Hammers] Galoots: I forward this to you guys, wondering if anybody has ever taken on a Cheney restoration project. Please respond to her directly (kathyf-at-lebanontn.org). Best, Tb. --- Are you aware of anyone that repairs the ball pein Cheney hammers? A co-worker has a couple of them and the springs and ball bears are in bad shape. Any help you could give me in this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks /*/Kathy Fakes/*/ /*/Marketing / Customer Service/*/ /*/City of Lebanon Gas Dept/*/ /*/1017 Sparta Pk/*/ /*/Lebanon/*//*/, TN 37087/*/ /*/phone: 615-443-2835/*/ /*/fax: 615-443-2807/*/ -- _________________________________________ Thomas R. Bruce (trb2@c...) Director,Legal Information Institute Cornell Law School http://www.law.cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157651 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-03-01 22:25:56 Subject: Stanley no. 50 fence rods Hello all, I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? I hope i can get a fast reply on my question. You can mail me of the list . Kind regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157652 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-01 16:27:41 Subject: Re: Stanley no. 50 fence rods Martin, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. I don't think the rods are anything real special, so in the worst case, you might have to have some made. Hopefully, Stanley might have some old stock. Assuming the 50 is in nice shape, the price sounds OK. I have one, use it and like it a lot. It is for light work, but is easier to use than the 45 for a lot of smaller jobs. Hope this helps. Bruce Z. Kearney, MO You wrote: > > I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 > bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. > Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? I hope i can > get a fast reply on my question. > You can mail me of the list . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157653 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-01 15:01:52 Subject: Re: Stanley no. 50 fence rods familie Hagen wrote: >Hello all, > >I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 >bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. >Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? > Threaded Rods for: #41, #42, #43, #44, #46, #47, #50, #54, #141, #444 and older #45’s $12.50 per pair. from http://stjamesbaytoolco.com/ Look under tools, then under stanley replacement parts -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157654 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-01 18:02:38 Subject: Re: Stanley no. 50 fence rods Drill Rod, either 3/8 or 5/16ths, I don't recall the correct diameter, works just fine for the short/long rods. Michael-San Francisco Martin, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. I don't think the rods are anything real special, so in the worst case, you might have to have some made. Hopefully, Stanley might have some old stock. Assuming the 50 is in nice shape, the price sounds OK. I have one, use it and like it a lot. It is for light work, but is easier to use than the 45 for a lot of smaller jobs. Hope this helps. Bruce Z. Kearney, MO You wrote: > > I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 > bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. > Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? I hope i can > get a fast reply on my question. > You can mail me of the list . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157655 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-01 20:02:06 Subject: Re: What is - Paraffin Oil? Rev. Tom muses ... > Suppose..... > suppose that I might have something else > that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, > and what might that be? Mineral oil works nearly as well as paraffin oil. A bit sloppier, as it seems slightly thinner in viscosity, but this is a process that usually requires old clothes, an apron and spreading newspaper under the work area anyway. It will be messy. Mineral spirits and old cloth towels or rags for cleanup work well for me, whereas paper towels do not. I also find that if I pour out a quantity of oil first, and then add stone while mixing, I can control bringing the mix to a workable consistency more easily than by the other way around. Good luck, and happy polishing. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157656 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-02 11:19:23 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table G'day, I thought the picture showed a beveled edge on the side away from the camera. That beveled edge being absent, it is not a glazier's hacking knife. It had crossed my mind that the tool was a bit "overbuilt" for a hacking knife but, as "overbuilding" seemed to be the rule rather than the exception for some of the old-time manufacturers, I let the thought pass. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul womack" To: "Peter B" Cc: "'Old Tools List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Two Dollah Table > Peter B wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. > > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > > in the picture? > > > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > > "Pig sticker" mortice chisel. > > BugBear > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157657 ---- From: Willie Young Date: 2006-03-01 20:25:59 Subject: Bailey / Stanley Sweetheart Planes How does one identify a Bailey and/or Stanley as a Sweetheart plane, and is there something special about them because they are Sweethearts? MGB/Willie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157658 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-01 21:29:04 Subject: Making and Modifying Galoots, Alas, after accepting my order for the Kingshott book, the supplier turned around and gave me a refund as it's "not available at present." Sssshhhhooooot. Pride goeth before a fall. Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157659 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-01 21:26:35 Subject: Re: Making and Modifying Phil said: > > Alas, after accepting my order for the Kingshott book, the supplier > turned around and gave me a refund as it's "not available at present." > Sssshhhhooooot. Pride goeth before a fall. You Ain't the only one, Bro.......Me Too! Chris.....pouting in West Lafayette! (And going to check carefully that I get the refund!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157660 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-03-01 21:26:46 Subject: Re: Making and Modifying Woodworking Machines and today the sold-out, order cancelled message came. Regards, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN On 2/28/06, Mike Hamilton wrote: > Phil E offered: > > Half.com still has the Jim Kingshott book... > > ABE had the same listing and yesterday I ordered it. Today I got the > temporarily out of stock message. They claim they will be able to > ship in 'no more than' 60 days. > > Another snap purchase put on hold..... > > Regards, > > Mike Hamilton > Plainfield, IN > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157661 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-01 21:29:46 Subject: Advice about Saw Set... I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are in good shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I have and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and sharpening myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would send them out to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour away and I suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it done. Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm leaning to spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being foolish at this point. Thanks! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157662 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-01 20:55:32 Subject: Re: Making and Modifying Chris, I already got mine. (Rebate, not book) :( Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Berger" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Making and Modifying > Phil said: >> >> Alas, after accepting my order for the Kingshott book, the supplier >> turned around and gave me a refund as it's "not available at >> present." >> Sssshhhhooooot. Pride goeth before a fall. > You Ain't the only one, Bro.......Me Too! > > Chris.....pouting in West Lafayette! (And going to check carefully > that I > get the refund!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157663 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-01 21:03:10 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Well, for starters .... $35 for a saw set? Gold plated? Cast in pure bronze? Yikes, even the high priced anteekers in town don't try to pull down that much coin. A vise... maybe, but even that would have to been in rather minty condition. Do make the leap and learn how to do it yourself. Oddly rewarding .. before I went down that path, I put it in roughly the same category as hand sanding. Now I still barely ever sand (scraping much better!!) but I'm happy to pull out a file and sharpen a saw... you can get by on more primitive methods for setting .... ..... better yet, shoot me a mailing address and I'll send you one... finally gonna make it to the post office this week anyway which should get me off the F list of a couple great white north galoots who've already waited way too long for something... cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin (finally coming up for air after a brutal last 6 weeks at work, though I'll confess to sneaking in enough time to fashion a pinewood derby car that more than vaguely resembles a 102 (junky little block plane, Jeff..)) And FWIW, the set is the least of the tools you'd need On 3/1/06, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are in good > shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I have > and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and sharpening > myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would send them out > to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour away and I > suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it done. > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm leaning to > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being foolish > at this point. > > Thanks! > Wendy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157664 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-01 19:06:10 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... I have the equipment, the skill, and the saws. What I don't have is time. And so I send my saws to an expert and pay the small amount of money. If he charges $8 to file a saw, and it takes me an hour to do it, I would be working for $8 an hour. I would much rather pay to have it done. But if you have the time and the inclination, go for it! You need to learn whether you enjoy filing saws or not. On Mar 1, 2006, at 6:29 PM, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are > in good > shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I > have > and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and > sharpening > myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would send > them out > to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour away and I > suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it done. > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm leaning > to > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being > foolish > at this point. > > Thanks! > Wendy > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157665 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-01 19:10:27 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Wendy asks for advice... >I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are >in good > shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files > I have > and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and > sharpening > myself. ... > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm > leaning to > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being > foolish > at this point. First, I do not believe the service will necessarily do a better job than you can your very first time. Wendy, chances are you will do a good job. I would suggest saving the $8 per saw. I would only send them out if they are in such bad shape they need to have the teeth punched back in. Shaping new teeth on your first saw might be a challenge, but with care you can do that too. If they need new teeth due to needing a sever rejointing, consider having the shop only punching in new teeth and then you set and sharpen by hand. That should save you about half the money and you would still have the opportunity to learn to sharpen. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157666 ---- From: "Steve Opacich" Date: 2006-03-01 22:31:57 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Galoots, Check out the selection at Hamiltonbook.com of a number of remaindered Astragal Press titles--startlingly good prices. Just go to their "power search" page and pull down _Astragal_ on the publisher line, then hit search. Steve O. Appleton, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Erdman" > I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book > remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying > Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus > $3.25 shipping in the USA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157667 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-03-01 20:32:40 Subject: RE: Toolmaker of the Month Wiktor - Adria Tools is a good choice. Eddie Sirotich has been a member of the porch for quite a while. While I don't have an Adria saw, yet, I did get a good deal on the ECE Primus Improved Smoothing Plane through the generous discount Eddie offered us Porch members when he first starting distributing ECE. Congratulations, Eddie, for your Toolmaker of the Month. Lew Soloway in sunny, but soon to be rainy, So Cal -----Original Message----- From: Wiktor A. Kuc [mailto:KWiktor@m...] Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:56 PM To: 'Oldtools' Subject: [OldTools] Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the Month - March 2006. In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools was selected. I am back to work.... Thanks for your help, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157668 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-01 21:59:00 Subject: Re: Bailey / Stanley Sweetheart Planes Hi Willie, I'll take a shot at this one. My apologies if half a dozen other responses have hit the listserv - either the Porch has been strangely quiet today, or the Yahoo mail server is having issues today - probably both. In 1920 the Stanley Rule and Level Company, which manufactured Bailey planes at the time, was bought out by the larger Stanley Works, which made various hardware. To acknowledge the merger, and to honor past Stanley Works president William Hart, the newly merged company produced a new trademark, using the notched Stanley rectangle overlaid by a heart with the letters SW in the center. Three versions of this trademark were used, apparently through 1935 (I wasn't there, so I couldn't tell you definitively!). Here are examples of the three versions: Version 1: http://www.antique-used- tools.com/TmX.jpg Version 2: http://www.antique-used-tools.com/TmY.jpg Version 3: http://www.antique-used-tools.com/TmAA.jpg It's this trademark that is commonly referred to as "Sweetheart", and it was used on a lot more than just bench planes. For an example, I believe Sandy Moss recently sold a pair of Stanley pliers with a Sweetheart trademark. Too cool! There's a nice type study of Stanley #25 sliding T Bevels that happens to contain a fair amount of information on the evolution of the trademark. http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/stanno25tbevtypestudy.htm The catch with a Bailey style plane is that since the trademark is located on the iron, they are often found on irons in planes from other time periods. If you're interested in determining the historical accuracy of a plane, you'll want to look for other points as well, such as the height of the front knob, the patent dates found, and many other points of interest. You can learn a lot about the pedigree of your Bailey- style Stanley plane, starting with the following link: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/ascii_dating_chart.html Since parts are so interchangeable, and since people swap out and reassemble planes so often to create a useable tool (nothing wrong with that!), you have to look at the age of each component of a plane to determine the age. You can't just go by the trademark. The Sweetheart trademark is interesting to many for the symbolism that Stanley put behind it, and for what it represents in the history of the toolmaker. It was a crossroads, and the combined company took a path that would ultimately mean the end of its legacy. That's what I find so fascinating about it. Plus, my nearly-six-year-old daughter seems to like tools with hearts on them! Whatever keeps her interested is fine by me. ;^) I hope this helps. Best Regards, Alex ...standing on the shoulders of giants. ----------- MGB/Willie asks: ----------- > How does one identify a Bailey and/or Stanley as a Sweetheart plane, > and is there something special about them because they are > Sweethearts? MGB/Willie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157669 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-01 22:10:47 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Wendy Sarrett wrote: >Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only >going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. > > Don't always believe that. I sent some round spinny blades to a big WW chain's sharpening service, and they were more fouled up than when they left. I had to pay double to get them corrected at a good local shop I found later. I also sent some knives to the local hardware store for sharpening, they took my serrated bread knife and ground all the teeth of it. Kinda useless after that. Its not hard to do, once you get the hang of it. Its nice to have a good one to compare your own work to, give you something to strive for. I had Tom Law sharpen a few of mine, and I've still got a way to go to catch him (like a lifetime or two of practice), but mine cut tons better than where I started, and better than most people;'s I;ve borrowed. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157670 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-02 16:49:58 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... One and all, Wendy Sarrett writes: > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. Let me add the Southern Hemisphere's weight to the majority opinion from the Northern. Some "professional" saw sharpeners are foundation members of the Not-Terribly-Good Club. Years ago I had returned from the sharpener's shop two saws which would not then cut straight. Apparently they had been put though a setting machine which resulted in the set on one side being much more pronounced than the set on the other. >From what I read in this list I feel that sawsets should be available in Wendy's part of the world for much less than $35.00 but I see that the magnificent Jim Esten has taken care of that problem. One does not really have to concern oneself with a sawset fitting unless it is planned to tackle something like one of the giant two-man crosscut saws and, although I have a sawset which is supposed to be for fine-toothed saws, I find sawsets of the standard, procrustean pattern quite adequate for setting small teeth. I take it that the instructions obtained on line are those of Pete Taran of Vintage Saws. One won't go wrong following those and, as they contain so much useful information, the re-reading of them a few times handsomely repays the time spent doing so. Pete Taran's detailed saw setting instructions are also very useful but it is not absolutely necessary to follow his preference for setting a saw after it has been sharpened rather than after it has been jointed and filed down prior to final sharpening although his reasons advanced for his preference seem to be quite valid. Most importantly, in my opinion, is the consideration that the acquisition of saw-sharpening skills by one person adds to the conservation of that skill, which otherwise is in danger of being lost, within the community. It is not an impossibly-hard skill to learn and repetition brings with it the development of a certain facility, ease and economy of time surprisingly quickly. Once an otherwise good saw has been brought back from the dead little time is required, even from the relative novice, to "touch it up" during the progress of work and this avoids the temptation to persevere with a saw, notwithstanding its declining performance, until it can be sent to the sharpener. Of course, sharpened saws in reserve also avoid this particular temptation. A good saw vice, whether a metal one or a home-made timber one and good light on the job allow full concentration on the work in hand. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157671 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-02 07:31:33 Subject: Stanley Trademarks (was Bailey / Stanley Sweetheart Bob Kaune's web site has a great Stanley trademark section. Please note that Bob sells tools, and my only relationship with him is that of satisfied customer. http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stantms.htm Gary K Close to Buffalo NY ____________original message_______________________ Alex mentioned in regard to Willie's query about the Stanley Sweetheart logo: --snip, snip-- > > There's a nice type study of Stanley #25 sliding T Bevels that happens to > contain a fair amount of information on the evolution of the trademark. > > http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/stanno25tbevtypestudy.htm > --snip, snip-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157672 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-02 12:57:30 Subject: saw restoration and sharpening - info and tips In a bid to exploit modern technology to aid ancient tools, I've created some printable files to assist in controlling fleam angles when filing teeth, and controlling tooth size/spacing when re-toothing a saw. There's also some stuff about Vallorbe files from APTC, which won't be of interest to anyone outside the UK, and some illustrations intended for use during discussions on tooth reshaping. http://www.geocities.com/plybench/saw_sharpen.html BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157673 ---- From: michigaloot@c... (Dennis Heyza) Date: 2006-03-02 14:45:58 Subject: looking for a Toronto area galoot Hello all, Does anyone live in or near Mississauga? I need some help on a personal matter. Respond off line please. Dennis Heyza Macomb, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157674 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 04:31:48 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Thanks Jim!! I'll shoot you my addy in a separate email. Also please let me know what I owe you for shipping, etc. Wendy On Wednesday 01 March 2006 10:03 pm, Jim Esten wrote: > Well, for starters .... $35 for a saw set? Gold plated? Cast in pure > bronze? Yikes, even the high priced anteekers in town don't try to > pull down that much coin. A vise... maybe, but even that would have > to been in rather minty condition. > > Do make the leap and learn how to do it yourself. Oddly rewarding .. > before I went down that path, I put it in roughly the same category as > hand sanding. Now I still barely ever sand (scraping much better!!) > but I'm happy to pull out a file and sharpen a saw... you can get by > on more primitive methods for setting .... > > ..... better yet, shoot me a mailing address and I'll send you one... > finally gonna make it to the post office this week anyway which should > get me off the F list of a couple great white north galoots who've > already waited way too long for something... > > cheers all, > > Jim E #2 in Wisconsin (finally coming up for air after a brutal last > 6 weeks at work, though I'll confess to sneaking in enough time to > fashion a pinewood derby car that more than vaguely resembles a 102 > (junky little block plane, Jeff..)) > > > And FWIW, the set is the least of the tools you'd need > > On 3/1/06, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > > I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are in > > good shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I > > have and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and > > sharpening myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would > > send them out to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour > > away and I suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it > > done. Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > > I'm only going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm > > leaning to spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm > > being foolish at this point. > > > > Thanks! > > Wendy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157675 ---- From: Gregory Isola Date: 2006-03-02 09:12:30 Subject: Batman Returns Hey: Short version: Used lots of oldtools to make a pukey duck; everyone's happy. Director's cut: SWMBO and the older GIT have been asking for something to keep the squirrels and jays away from the backyard apple tree this year. (The tree actually "belongs" to the GIT; she's very protective, as it was a b-day gift from a thoughtful cousin.) Helpful neighbor with impressive veggie garden says we need motion, as in a whirligig, to keep the critters at bay. No idea if this will work, but sensing a potentially interesting project, I scanned the library books on the subject. All those flapping ducks and farmers milking cows left me a bit cold, though. Enter the younger GIT. He knows, without question, that any job involving protection is a job for Batman. And since his b-day was on the horizon at the time, I set out to make a Batman whirligig in his honor. Found a relatively simple design in a book, replaced the hopping bunnies and froggies with the Caped Crusader chasing the Riddler (personal favorite villain), and got to it. Cut out the characters and prop blades on Michael (The Slope-Greasing Toymaker) Suwczinsky's Barnes velocipede scrollsaw, and the rest of the woodworking was cake. I hadn't done much metalwork before, but bending and threading the brass rod crankshaft was also pretty easy and really fun. And painting the characters gave me a chance to dust off the rusty comic book art skillz: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3593 Took several tries to get the mechanism running relatively smoothly, but it actually works. No one's more surprised than I. Thar she blows: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3594 Oldtools used: WS rip saw 14-inch Pilot Works tenon saw Union transitional smoother Fray #106 10-inch brace with mondo 1 7/8 center bit Record 044 plow plane Goodell-Pratt eggbeater Goodell-Pratt bench drill press Coping saw 6-32 die and vise grips for metalwork Various files and rasps Greg Isola Alameda, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157676 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-02 12:23:23 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Wendy: My suggestion is to send ONE saw out for sharpening, so you have a model of what a good sharpening job looks like. I'm learning saw sharpening the hard way too. I've done six so far, (the two rip saws don't count, they're easy) and only the last one cuts well. The good news is that I get to have more practice when I resharpen the other five. And...not all saw sharpenings include setting. If the teeth are properly set before you sharpen, you may not need to reset after. I've found that about half the saws I've run into don't need setting, at least the first time. Otherwise, my suggestion is that you have good light. I have a hard time seeing the light glint off the shiny sharpened metal without positioning a light just so. Walt C Going out to check my stable of partially sharpened cheap saws. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157677 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-02 10:32:59 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... alas, this only works when you *know* the sharpener to whom you're sending the saw will do a good job. if tom law were around, i'd say you could know for certain. i'm fortunate ken greenberg is nearby, and does a fine job. the millrat has his local place, which i think takes mailed-in saws. i know dylan said you could learn more from a bad example than from a good, but i don't think it's true in this case. best, bill felton, ca On Mar 2, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Walt Cheever wrote: > My suggestion is to send ONE saw out for sharpening, so you have a > model of what a good sharpening job looks like. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157678 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-02 15:31:02 Subject: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... Hi folks... If anyone out there has a late model Stanley 271 router plane (the little one), could you please see if you can determine the details of the screw that holds the blade in? (pitch and size). I've tried everything I have available locally, and have drawn a blank (granted, there's not much here). Stanley hasn't been real responsive, other than to say that its no longer made, and parts are not longer in stock...... I figure if I can determine what the proper screw is, I can probably find one somewhere....... (at least I hope so)... Course, if you have a dead/dogmeat 271, but the screw is in OK condition, we could just have a little chat, yes? Thanks a ton folks --JD still trying to clear the last dumpage of snow from the driveway, but being defeated by the wind.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157679 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-02 13:01:22 Subject: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... I just checked mine. The threads are 10-28. I miked the OD of the threads at .180" and the thread gauge lines up nicely at 28 tpi. Isn't that a standard thread? I haven't looked at a chart, but it sounds familiar. On Mar 2, 2006, at 12:31 PM, James DuPrie wrote: > Hi folks... > If anyone out there has a late model Stanley 271 router plane (the > little > one), could you please see if you can determine the details of the > screw > that holds the blade in? (pitch and size). I've tried everything I have > available locally, and have drawn a blank (granted, there's not much > here). > Stanley hasn't been real responsive, other than to say that its no > longer > made, and parts are not longer in stock...... > > I figure if I can determine what the proper screw is, I can probably > find > one somewhere....... (at least I hope so)... > > Course, if you have a dead/dogmeat 271, but the screw is in OK > condition, we > could just have a little chat, yes? > > Thanks a ton folks > > --JD > > still trying to clear the last dumpage of snow from the driveway, but > being > defeated by the wind.... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157680 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-02 13:15:42 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... One small point about saw sharpening- if you can find someone who knows what they are doing, and they will let you watch them, you will get a huge jump start on the skill. I learned more about sharpening from watching my father than all the reading I've done. And I wasn't expecting to ever do it myself at the time! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157681 ---- From: "Gary P. Laroff" Date: 2006-03-02 13:59:28 Subject: Addis History and Carving Tool Imprint Overview (Long) Addis History and Carving Tool Imprint Overview copyright 2006, Gary P. Laroff This is an updated discussion of the two major makers of "Addis" tools and attempt to assign and date the imprints on the tools. Aside from the Galoot and collector interest in Addis carving tools, the leading carving experts, when asked about second-hand or classic carving tools, almost always list "Addis", "Herring Bros." and "Ward & Payne" as the best. Current experts Chris Pye, Ian Agrell, Mack Headley and others use Addis, Herring and Ward carving tools. Therefore a bit of Herring and Ward history is tossed in as necessary when they crossed paths with the Addises. This compendium is based on the private and published work of others. Although all the tools referenced are mine, the historical research is a summary of the primary research of others. For the most part, the information presented here is consistent with that of Don McConnell some of which has been copied from his post of 2005. This summary also includes facts from the Oldtools posts of the past, Barry Learoyd and that forwarded by others. Much of Don's summary is not repeated here, so you need both postings to build a complete story. Some facts have been adjusted or deleted based on new information from The Hawley Collection, who is especially thanked for unraveling many of the details related to James Bacon Addis and for the dating of some S. J. Addis trademarks from the period after Samuel Joseph's death and are on tools made by the firm of Ward & Payne. This Addis project continues. All those interested in the Addis history and tools are requested to continue communicating new-found Addis information to correct and expand what is listed here. Examples of tools with all the tool imprints/trade marks listed here are present in my collection of carving tools. All of these are, of course, user tools. Our main interest is with Samuel Joseph Addis (S. J. Addis) and his younger brother James Bacon Addis (J. B. Addis). There is evidence that the Addis family was in the edge-tool business as far back as 1717 or 1720 with continuation well into the 20th Century. Late 19th Century Addis listings state "Established 1717". There were perhaps as many as ten generations of Addis edge-tool makers. Addis History, mostly chronological: 1792 - This is the furthest back we can go at this time. Samuel Addis was an edge tool maker who lived on Church Street, Deptford, in the County of Kent and who was listed as an auctioneer in the 1820s and 1830s. He had two sons, Samuel Addis (uncle to S. J. Addis, otherwise a dead end) and Joseph James Addis. 1792 - Joseph James Addis born to Samuel Addis. Joseph James was a tool maker and had eight children: three sons and five daughters. The oldest was Samuel Joseph and the youngest was James Bacon. Both sons, and perhaps others, were apprenticed to Joseph James, but we know the most about Samuel Joseph's apprenticeship and life in London and James Bacon's business relationship with the firm of Ward & Payne and his difficulties with the Sheffield unions. Joseph James was apprenticed to his father Samuel and started in business in Kent. We can track him back to at least 1840, but he must have been in business in Kent before that. He is first listed in London in 1845 and is still listed there in 1858 at the time of his death. Address was 4 Church Street, Deptford. The earliest tool imprint we have of Joseph James is "ADDIS". The tools have all the characteristics of early carving tools. 1811 - Samuel Joseph Addis (the S. J. Addis) born to Joseph James Addis. 1829 - James Bacon Addis (the J. B. Addis) born to Joseph James Addis as the third son and eighth (last) child. 1840 (or 1845) to 1858 - Joseph James worked at 4 Church Street, Deptford and stayed there until he died in 1858. For the earlier part of this period, Samuel Joseph was his apprentice and or partner. During this time or earlier, he used the "ADDIS" and later the "ADDIS SENr" imprints. The latter was to differentiate his work from that of Samuel Joseph. 1846 to 1853 - Samuel Joseph, carving tool maker, was located at 6 Lower Fore Street, Lambeth. For a time in 1851, the Hawley Report notes him away from home at Union Court, possibly setting up his display at The Great Exhibition, 1851. Primary imprints were "S. J. ADDIS JUNr" and "S. J. ADDIS JUNr LONDON." I know of no tools with a "Lower Fore Street" imprint. Regarding "S. J. Addis, Junior", this was a common reference to a son and Samuel Joseph had two daughters and no sons. There was no S. J. Addis, Jr. and numerous sources agree on this fact, which contradicts Goodman. The terms senior and junior refer to a father and son was quite common. After Samuel Joseph's death, his nephew James Bacon Addis, Jr. had a son named Samuel Joseph. 1850 - Thomas Herring, the 16 year old son of William Herring, an edge tool forger in Sheffield, moves to London and "visits" Samuel Joseph Addis. Thomas began working for Samuel Joseph, perhaps as an apprentice. 1853 - Thomas Herring, 19, marries Harriet Addis, daughter of Samuel Joseph Addis. The couple had two sons, Thomas Herring (born 1853) and Joseph Herring (born 1857). Harriet died in childbirth in 1857. Thomas later went into the carving tool business with his brother Edwin, setting up shop across the street from Samuel Joseph Addis on Gravel Lane. 1854 - James Bacon Addis (age 25), carving tool maker, was located at 17 Charlotte Street, Blackfriars. The year 1851, when he was 22, is also documented. The Hawley Report notes this as the last known address until 1871 in Sheffield, although we know he moved to Sheffield in 1863. Other sources also list the address 29 Lucus St. There are no known imprints from the London era of James Bacon Addis, but some probably exist out there somewhere. The tools with prize medals dates of 1870 and later are too late to have been made in London and those with early prize medal dates state an address of Sheffield. 1853 (or 54) to 1863 (or 64) - Samuel James listed at 2 & 20 Gravel Lane, Southwark, London. Imprints were "S.J. ADDIS, 20 GRAVEL LANE, LONDON" and "S.J. ADDIS, 20 GRAVEL LANE, SOUTHWARK LONDON". There are also tools imprinted with a large "S.J. ADDIS JUNr LONDON" on the back and a smaller, finer "S.J. ADDIS 20 GRAVEL LANE SOUTHWARK LONDON" on the top, which might be old stock from Lower Fore Street remarked early in the Gravel Lane era. The evidence seems to fit this assumption. 1858 - Joseph James Addis dies. 1863 to 1867 (or 68) - Samuel Joseph working at 49 & 50 Worship St., Finsbury, London. Imprint: "WORSHIP ST, FINSBURY" with "S.J. ADDIS LONDON" followed by the Masonic crossed compass and square insignia, often noted in writing as "XX". These are the first of the S. J. Addis tools that appear to have the crossed compass and square insignia. The insignia is part of the metal name stamp and is always after the name and address on these tools. 1867 (or 68) to 1870 (or 1871?) - Samuel Joseph working at 68 & 70 Worship St. It has been suggested that Samuel Joseph didn't move in the 1867 timeframe but that the city renumbered Worship St. so that 49 & 50 became 68 & 70. 1869, 1870 or 1871 (probably 1870) - Samuel Joseph Addis dies. He outlived one of his daughters. Shortly after his death, the Sheffield firm of Ward & Payne bought rights to his name. There remain open questions regarding whether S. J. Addis or Ward & Payne stamped the sweep numbers on the tools and who manufactured the S. J. Addis tools with the crossed compass and square insignia. These issues are discussed further below. The tools with crossed hammers over an anvil and the letters W P are from the Ward & Payne era and were manufactured after S. J. Addis had passed away. At this point the S. J. Addis story moves from London to Sheffield. There was potential competition between the Addis brothers. The Hawley Collection states "Although both Samuel Joseph and James Bacon Addis exhibited at the Great Exhibition in 1851, with James Bacon being awarded a medal, they do not seem to have been working in a formal partnership. From 1854, Samuel's advertisements claim that he was the 'sole inventor of the improved carvers' tools exhibited at the Great Exhibition, 1851'". Before discussing the Sheffield years, we should discuss the firm of Ward & Payne. Much is known and written about them so the following is just enough to place them in perspective and allow us to continue the story. Apologies for any errors in the company's early history. Many companies, especially Ward & Payne, had a penchant for marketing and the tendency to claim they were older and bigger than they actually were. This summary has little interest in whether Ward & Payne was discontinuous with the previous David Ward company or not, as The Hawley reports shows clearly, and will discuss Ward & Payne as the continuation and growth of an old family-based company. Ward & Payne was founded in Sheffield by one David Ward, edge-tool manufacturer in 1803. The company had the name David Ward. David Ward's son Edward joined the company around 1837 and the company name was changed to David Ward & Sons or David Ward & Co. Perhaps both names were used in succession. Henry Payne appears as an edge tool maker in 1837 and joins the company prior to 1845. Perhaps he joined in 1837 and caused the name change to David Ward & Co. In 1843 Henry Payne registered the well-known Ward & Payne trade mark of the crossed hammers above an anvil with W to the left and P to the right. Henry Payne became junior partner in 1845 and died in 1850 and ownership of the company reverted back to the Ward family. After 1845 the firm built a large business in edge tools concentrating on carving tools, chisels and gouges. Another David Ward (1835 - 1889), possibly the son of Edward Ward, took over the company in 1855 and was apparently an aggressive young executive with the company before that. He grew the company's fortunes in both the sheep shearing scissor and carving tool businesses. The company grew, expanded their factory to a full city block and published a 501 page catalog in 1911. They were apparently still in business up to around 1970. 1853 - James Bacon Addis, Jr. is born in Lambeth, London. 1863 or 1864 - James Bacon Addis, living in London and after winning a second prize medal in 1862, essentially declares bankruptcy and applies for work with Ward & Payne in Sheffield. Ward & Payne had received customer feedback that Sheffield-made carving tools were not as good as those made in London and that the tools made by Addis were the best, so James Bacon Addis was given a job. James Bacon lived just outside the Sheffield town center, on Triplett Lane, which becomes Portobello in Sheffield. This means he lived in the shadow of the Ward & Payne factory. At the time, Samuel Joseph Addis was still at the Gravel Lane address and would live for another 5 or 6 years. Stories that James Bacon moved to Sheffield when his brother died are most likely incorrect. James Bacon worked as a contractor supplying carving tools to Ward & Payne. 1871 - James Bacon Addis had considerable difficulties with the local union, which are well documented elsewhere. On at least one occasion, he moved back to London. In 1871 he is listed as a carving tool manufacturer at 127 Portobello in Sheffield. He is registered as living at Court 16, Rockingham Street with his wife, son James Bacon Jr. and an extended family. 1870 to 1871 - After the death of James Bacon Addis's brother Samuel Joseph, Ward & Payne bought the rights to the mark "S. J. Addis of London" and started marketing carving tools under this esteemed brand. There may have been a large stock of tools moved from London and either Ward & Payne or James Bacon Addis may also have made them. The Hawley Collection and others state that James Bacon made the carving tools for Ward & Payne for at least ten years. James Bacon Addis was busy and made tools for a number of companies. I have seen a carving tool with a Marples three-leaf clover imprint overstamped J. B. Addis & Sons and also a Ward & Payne so overstamped. 1872 - By this time the relationship between James Bacon Addis and Ward & Payne was apparently failing or canceled. James Bacon is listed as working from Arctic Works, Court 2, Rockingham Street. Tool imprints from this period state the maker as "J. B. Addis". Actual tool dates are indicated by the Prize Medals years listed. See below. After 1872 -- By this time James Bacon was articulating in advertisements that the only true Addis-made carving tools carried the "J. B. Addis & Sons" brand. Ads from this period state the valid imprints on tools and enable us to date many of the J. B. Addis tools made after 1872. The Hawley Collection lists 1874 as the most likely date for a split between James Bacon Addis and Ward & Payne. The company was still working at the Arctic Works at least past 1881. 1879 - James Bacon Addis, age 49, was living at 46 Newcastle Street with his wife and two grandsons. Nearby, at the Arctic Works, lived James Bacon, Jr. (age 26) a carving tool maker, his wife Elizabeth and son Samuel J. Addis. The principles of J. B. Addis & Sons were listed as James Bacon Addis, James Bacon Addis, Jr., and George Allkins Addis. Don McConnell also lists Samuel Joseph Addis of London, but this is probably a reference to Samuel Joseph Addis, born that year as son of James Bacon Jr. and grandson of James Bacon Addis. 1890 - James Bacon Addis dies in Sheffield. 1891 - Jane Addis, widow of James Bacon, lives at 46 Newcastle Street. James Bacon Jr. (age 39), carving tool manufacturer, lives next door at 44 Newcastle Street with his wife Elizabeth (age 35), and three sons and a daughter - Samuel J, aged 12; James B, aged 8; Thomas F, aged 6 and Ada aged 3. 1911 - Apparently James Bacon Addis, Jr. has died by this date. J. B. Addis & Sons continues with principles Elizabeth (55), George Addis (age 43) and James Bacon Addis III (age 28). 1960s - Ward & Payne were selling S. J. Addis Brand carving tools through the 1960s. The latest catalog in my collection is from 1961. Ken Hawley notes that J. B. Addis & Sons carving tools were made in the same factory until shortly before World War I when the manufacturing was moved to the Soho Wheel in Sheffield. Directory entries for the company end in 1965. Trade Marks, Marks and Imprints on Tools This list of tool trade marks and imprints comes from the tools that I have. Certainly others must exist. In the list below, the word "over" refers to two lines of text. The slash symbol "/" implies part of the imprint is on the top of the tool and part is on the bottom (or left and right of the tool). The symbol "XX" stands for the crossed compass and square. WP stands for the Ward & Payne insignia of W and P flanking crossed hammers over an anvil. ADDIS Joseph James Addis, probably between 1811 and early 1840s. The tool looks old with solid square billet shaft and a well shaped thick octagonal shoulder. Lettering is large. No sweep number. ADDIS SENr Joseph James Addis probably 1845 - 1858 when he needed to differentiate his product from those of his son. Tool is very much like the one described above except the octagonal shoulder is flatter. Lettering is large. No sweep number. S. J. ADDIS JUNr Samuel Joseph Addis probably 1846 - 1853. Tool is very much like the one described above except the octagonal shoulder is flatter. Lettering is large. No sweep number. S. J. ADDIS JUNr over LONDON (large lettering) / S.J. ADDIS 20 GRAVEL LANE SOUTHWARK LONDON (medium lettering). Samuel Joseph Addis probably early in the period 1853 - 1863 when older product from Lower Fore Street was over stamped for new shop location. No sweep number. S.J. ADDIS 20 GRAVEL LANE / SOUTHWARK LONDON (medium lettering) Samuel Joseph Addis 1853 - 1863 or 1864. The shoulder is a heavily rounded octagon. No sweep number. S. J. ADDIS LONDON followed by XX / WORSHIP ST FINSBURY Samuel Joseph Addis 1863 - 1867 or 1869. No sweep number. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over LONDON (small lettering) Without a street address and without a sweep number, this tool might be a late S. J. Addis made tool around 1869, an S. J. Addis made tool left over and purchased by Ward & Payne or could be a Ward & Payne carving tool. If the imprint has the XX taller than the small neat two lines of text , then this tool should date to the 1880s. Ward & Payne had their markmaker, Edward Prior of Sheffield, make this trademark during the 1880s. Note that during this period, some if not most Ward & Payne carving tools were still being made by J. B. Addis. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over LONDON / Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool from the 1880s. See above. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over CAST STEEL / Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool from the 1880s or early 1890s. The only reason I would date this as 1880s is that other CAST STEEL imprints have ENGLAND on the reverse, which usually implies the tool is from after the 1890s or early 1900s. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over CAST STEEL / ENGLAND and Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool from the 1890s or later. Although I can't find the definitive resource, I believe tools had to state their country of origin starting around the mid 1890s. WP followed by S. J. ADDIS over CAST STEEL / ENGLAND and Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool between 1895 and World War I. Although I can't find the definitive resource, I believe the imprints stating "CAST STEEL" ended around World War I. WP followed by S. J. ADDIS / ENGLAND and Sweep Number This is probably Ward & Payne tool between World War I and World War II. This is really a guess, but the XX trade mark and CAST STEEL are no longer there. S. J. ADDIS / Sweep Number. These were in production by Ward & Payne in 1961. The removal of the WP logo seems to have occurred around or after World War II. J. B. ADDIS / PRIZE MEDAL over 51, 62, 70 & 71. No Sweep Number. J. B. Addis production 1872. J. B. ADDIS & SONS / PRIZE MEDALS over 51, 62, 70 & 71. (large lettering). Probably early imprint with new company name including his sons. Post 1872. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over ARCTIC WORKS SHEFFIELD / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 62. Must be after 1872. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 62. Current production 1881. J. B. ADDIS & SONS / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 78 (large lettering). After 1878, probably after 1881. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 78. After 1878, probably after 1881. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 10 PRIZE MEDALS. Well after 1889, perhaps 1890s. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD, ENG. / 10 PRIZE MEDALS. Probably mid 1890s or later.. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 10 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 to 89. Well after 1889, perhaps 1890s. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD, ENGLAND / 10 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 to 89. Probably after 1890s. J.B. ADDIS & SONS with Sweep Number. Heavy black finish on back of tool very much like a current carving tool from Henry Taylor. Probably well into 1900s and perhaps even World War II. Discussion: We should address the triple question of: A) who invented the current universal system of carving tools, meaning the sweeps that became the London or Sheffield list? B) who assigned the numbering system? and C) who started putting the sweep numbers on the tools? A) There is sufficient circumstantial evidence attributing the invention of the "improved carvers tools" to S. J Addis for me to accept this as fact. It has been repeated in many ways by various parties and no source or advertisement ever seemed to discredit S. J. Addis from being the inventor. Therefore, by default, I give him credit for the sweeps, etc. but not necessarily for the numbering system describing them. B) S.J. Addis might have invented the numbering system in use since at least 1870, but he had no need for it. He had a single shop, advertised his street address and patrons probably visited him and discussed their needs face to face and then looked over the wares. Why would he need a four digit SKU numbering system? On the other hand, Ward & Payne needed it. They sold around the world (or at least Europe, Australia and North America) via catalogs and needed a way to communicate tool length, the sweep, the size and whether straight, long bent, short bent or back bent. Ward & Payne needed the numbering system so that customers could accurately order tools and their factory could ship the right ones. The earliest chart I can find is from 1870 and is from Pawson & Brailsford, Sheffield. Whether S. J. Addis invented the numbering system or not, there is no evidence that he ever used it. The evidence is that the Sheffield manufacturers did use it. C) The carving tools attributed to S. J. Addis in this summary do not have the sweep numbers stamped into them. All the "S. J. Addis" carving tools with sweep numbers bear the later Ward & Payne trademarks and imprints. Stamping sweep numbers in carving tools seems to have begun after 1870, the year S. J. Addis died. There is a lot of information in the above summary and a lot of assumptions had to be made. It is important for us to continue this research and discuss the issues that don't seem to add up. Gary Laroff Portland, Oregon February 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157682 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-02 16:09:46 Subject: RE: Batman Returns Greg; Pukey duck or not, I have a daughter that would love one of these....lets see, I still have that time between midnight and 6 open.... >pretty easy and >really fun. And painting the characters gave me a chance to >dust off the >rusty comic book art skillz: > >http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >Took several tries to get the mechanism running relatively >smoothly, but it >actually works. No one's more surprised than I. Thar she blows: > >http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157683 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-02 15:33:27 Subject: Help needed I just received a package with a saw I purchased. TACONY SAW CO. on the etch... Medallion - Warranted Superior. The design of the etch is very similar to other saws that Disston produced for 3rd parties. Never head of, never seen any literature on this company. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157684 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-02 18:14:03 Subject: Re: Help needed Tom Price back in 2001 wrote something about the Tacony Saw Co. See http://archive.oldtools.org/archive_get.phtml?message_id=96712 Jack in Endwell, NY On 3/2/06, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > I just received a package with a saw I purchased. > > TACONY SAW CO. on the etch... > Medallion - Warranted Superior. > > The design of the etch is very similar to other saws that > Disston produced for 3rd parties. > > Never head of, never seen any literature on this company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157685 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-03 10:30:23 Subject: Stanley # 49 Tongue & Groove Plane Fellow Galoots, * The most obvious difference between a Stanley # 48 and # 49 , is the _overall length of the plane._ * *Stanley # 48* are _10 1/2 inches total length._ *Stanley # 49* are *_10 inches total length _( 1877 - 1936 )* * _ 9 inches total length._( 1937 - 1942 *) *Patents Dates*. Millers 7/6/1875 ( */basic patent/* ) / 8/22/1886 (/ *improved patent*/ ) The Stanley # 49 were *Japanned prior to 1896 , and nickel plated after this date.* All the Japanned Models have the *Millers 7/6/1875 patent date* *in their casting.* * _The Stanley # 49 is much more scarce_*_ _than the # 48. * The # 49 came stock with 2 x 3/16 cutters *, but were *also supplied with an extra wide cutter* for oversize stock. *The Model # 49 *I have has the following features : Japanned Model.( Type 1 ) Total Length = 10 inches. Vine pattern in handle. Millers 7/6/1875 patent date below handle. 2 x 3 /16 cutters. Trumpet shaped ( nickel ) lever screws . 7 1/2 X 3/4 X 3/4 Swing Fence. Timber Tote with brass screw. If you would like a photo of this plane , send me an email . Regards , Stewart Simpson / Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157686 ---- From: "Bret Rochotte" Date: 2006-03-02 19:22:13 Subject: EAIA Chronical articles online Hello; I thought someone might be interested in this web based article search engine I found: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3983 The text of articles from the "Chronical" are available. I hope this helps, Bret Bret and Wendy Rochotte New Bremen, Ohio rochotte@b... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157687 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-02 20:02:47 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Spike, I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what he does? Larry Spike wrote: > One small point about saw sharpening- if you can find someone who >knows what they are doing, and they will let you watch them, you will >get a huge jump start on the skill. > I learned more about sharpening from watching my father than all the >reading I've done. And I wasn't expecting to ever do it myself at the >time! > >_____________ > >Spike Cornelius >PDX - Crazy for Shavings > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157688 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-02 19:53:58 Subject: RE: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Here's a review of the video by ALF... http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7355 Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of L.A. Root Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:03 PM To: Spike Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Advice about Saw Set... Spike, I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what he does? Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157689 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-02 19:54:46 Subject: RE: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Whoops, make that Bugbear... Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of L.A. Root Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:03 PM To: Spike Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Advice about Saw Set... Spike, I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what he does? Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157690 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 20:45:53 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Thank you John, Yes, I agree. It's sort of sad when old skills die out...especially when they're so useful. I'm glad groups such as this exist so that such skills, including hand tool skills in general continue to exist. I am going to give it a shot with the saw set that Larry is so kindly sending to me. I took some "before" shots so I can see the comparion when I'm done "de rusting", setting, sharpening, etc. Yes, I did see some pix of making a saw vice...I'll have to take another look. Thanks again! Wendy On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:49 am, you wrote: > One and all, > > Wendy Sarrett writes: > > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm > > only > > > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. > > Let me add the Southern Hemisphere's weight to the majority opinion from > the Northern. > > Some "professional" saw sharpeners are foundation members of the > Not-Terribly-Good Club. Years ago I had returned from the sharpener's shop > two saws which would not then cut straight. Apparently they had been put > though a setting machine which resulted in the set on one side being much > more pronounced than the set on the other. > > From what I read in this list I feel that sawsets should be available in > Wendy's part of the world for much less than $35.00 but I see that the > magnificent Jim Esten has taken care of that problem. One does not really > have to concern oneself with a sawset fitting unless it is planned to > tackle something like one of the giant two-man crosscut saws and, although > I have a sawset which is supposed to be for fine-toothed saws, I find > sawsets of the standard, procrustean pattern quite adequate for setting > small teeth. > > I take it that the instructions obtained on line are those of Pete Taran of > Vintage Saws. One won't go wrong following those and, as they contain so > much useful information, the re-reading of them a few times handsomely > repays the time spent doing so. Pete Taran's detailed saw setting > instructions are also very useful but it is not absolutely necessary to > follow his preference for setting a saw after it has been sharpened rather > than after it has been jointed and filed down prior to final sharpening > although his reasons advanced for his preference seem to be quite valid. > > Most importantly, in my opinion, is the consideration that the acquisition > of saw-sharpening skills by one person adds to the conservation of that > skill, which otherwise is in danger of being lost, within the community. > It is not an impossibly-hard skill to learn and repetition brings with it > the development of a certain facility, ease and economy of time > surprisingly quickly. Once an otherwise good saw has been brought back > from the dead little time is required, even from the relative novice, to > "touch it up" during the progress of work and this avoids the temptation to > persevere with a saw, notwithstanding its declining performance, until it > can be sent to the sharpener. Of course, sharpened saws in reserve also > avoid this particular temptation. > > A good saw vice, whether a metal one or a home-made timber one and good > light on the job allow full concentration on the work in hand. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157691 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 20:55:16 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Yes, that's how I'm doing it. Since I didn't spend a huge amount on them I'm not as worried about messing up than had they been new. Someone also suggested a video that I might go for. Thanks again! Wendy On Thursday 02 March 2006 03:23 pm, Kerry Walker wrote: > I'll crawl out from under the porch (way in the back) and chime in here. > > Wendy asks for advice... > > > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > > I'm only > > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm > > leaning to > > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being > > foolish > > at this point. > > I agree with Mike on this one. I recently went to a "Saw Sharpening > Service" and they told me that they don't prefer to do hand saws because > its easier to throw them away and purchase a new one. ( That falls under > the "wrong answer" category in my book). > > I to was a bit reluctant to start sharpening on my own by reading the > online guides etc. Once I had someone show me how and what to do (Thanks > Mike) I was fine. I successfully sharpened a cross-cut saw with out to > much trouble. Took a couple hours but I'm sure I'll get quicker with > practice. > > Back under the porch and out of the rain in a mild but very windy Portland, > OR Kerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157692 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 21:00:05 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Thanks Spike! Unfortunately I don't know anyone but I got some good pointers to a book, video and web sites that should be helpful. Wendy On Thursday 02 March 2006 04:15 pm, Spike wrote: > One small point about saw sharpening- if you can find someone who > knows what they are doing, and they will let you watch them, you will > get a huge jump start on the skill. > I learned more about sharpening from watching my father than all the > reading I've done. And I wasn't expecting to ever do it myself at the > time! > > _____________ > > Spike Cornelius > PDX - Crazy for Shavings > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157693 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-02 21:09:08 Subject: Need help Tacony Saw Co. Wiktor Kuc wrote about a hand saw he just received marked Tacony Saw Co. Wiktor: I did a search a while back on the Tacony Saw Co. and came up empty. I would say this saw would had to have been made by Disston, because as far as I know they were the only saw makers in Tacony, PA. (Just north east of Philadelphia). You can do a Google search on Henry Disston Tacony, PA or Tacony, PA itself and come up with quite a bit of information, but no mention of a Tacony Saw Co. Don't feel bad. I sent Erv Schaffer info on six hand saws that I couldn't identify and he never heard of any of them. Strike out zero for six. Bob Sturgeon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157694 ---- From: "Kerry Walker" Date: 2006-03-02 20:01:50 Subject: Re: On the trapline Phil, I have access to copies of National Geographic back to issue 1. I can send you a copy of the article, do you want it electronic or hard copy? Regards, Kerry >>> "Phil and Debbie Koontz" 02/25/06 9:30 AM >>> Hi galoots-- I know I'm taking a bit of a liberty here, and hope the moms will be tolerant one more time. After the slabwood construction thread, though, I thought this story about a few days in a friend's trapping cabin might be considered marginally on topic. I posted it on my personal blog a few weeks ago. I have a favor to ask at the end of the note. *********** Well, it was a great trip. Roger and I left town last Tuesday (Jan 10) morning at about daylight, heading south through little Kala slough. It was around 20 below, and he checked traps all the way, leaving me pretty much lost and confused about where the trails were. Roger told me his trapping cabin is about a 58 mile drive, but we didn't go directly there, so it was a bit longer, and it was well after dark when we arrived at camp on the headwaters of the Yuki River. The cabin is two- sided logs, maybe 12 feet by 16, with the ridge pole at eye level, so the only place we could stand upright is next to the ridge. It's a fairly classy place by trapping cabin standards though, bigger than most, with two big windows and a generator to run electric lights in the evenings. Cozy enough that we could easily touch each other from just about anywhere in the place, but still with enough room to take a deep breath occasionally. The beds are in the two back corners, the stove, woodbox, and kitchen along one wall, and the storage for parts, supplies, traps, pelts and furs along the other wall. Hanging cold weather gear, fur stretchers, gloves, and boots took up most of the free space along the walls. We hauled in gas and food, and Roger had made a trip by ski plane to restock the propane and extra gas drums. Each day I would follow Roger around his traplines (there are several-- we did one going each way, plus three more while we were there. He has several more traplines that aren't in use this year, and opened several miles of a new line he is working on), driving his old Bravo. My snowgo got me there, but it's not made for backwoods use. The skiis are too wide for the traplines, and it has trouble with deep snow and banging through dense woods, so he told me to just leave it in camp. In fact, I had intended to come home after a day or two, but I decided to stay with him because I didn't really trust my snowgo to get me home by myself. Roger traps mainly marten. They are small predators, bigger than weasels and smaller than housecats. He used pole sets and Victor #1 leghold traps. A pole set is a stick about 10 feet long and maybe 4" in diameter that he wires in place horizontally so the bait is about shoulder level at the butt end of the pole. Between the bait and the nearest tree is a trap, so that when the marten goes out the pole to get the bait (dried salmon scraps), he/she steps on the trap and jumps off the pole, to hang by the trap chain. We got about a dozen martens each day out of maybe 50 traps. It's an all day trip to run each trapline--maybe 8 hours for a 20-30 mile trapline. The daylight is still only about 5 hours, so we got back to camp well after dark every day. Things went pretty well until Friday when we stopped for lunch, but I need to digress here. It's SO pretty out there. Unbelievable. Down "here" in the valleys, there is about an inch of frost on everything, so the trees are all completely covered with fluffy white. Up on the hills the trees have more like a foot of snow blown and packed onto every surface, so there are places that look like a huge cocktail party for giant snowmen-- thousands of billowy pillars bending and gesturing as if they are in deep conversation. Every day we would stop for lunch on a mountain peak above the tree line, with a vista of hundreds of miles of wilderness Alaska all around, lit by the low angle sun with pastel colors. It brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Lunch was smoked king salmon strips, tea, crackers, and sometimes cookies, eaten while we sat on the snowgoes watching the scenery. My camera refused to work on the entire trip, dammit, but I got a few pictures on Roger's camera. I will try to post them soon. So there we were, Friday afternoon, finishing lunch. Roger fired up his machine and went ahead to check traps while I packed up lunch stuff and got ready to follow. I broke his Bravo at that point--pulled the starter rope too hard and it came loose in my hand. The machine was already kinda hard to start because the compression was getting bad, but there is an emergency starting technique the involves wrapping a rope around the clutch. So, when Roger came back to help me start the Bravo, it took both of us about 15 minutes to get it going. Meanwhile, he had discovered that a wolverine had found the trapline, and (as it turned out) had stolen all the rest of the marten--11 of them on Friday, in addition to two earlier in the week. A wolverine looks like a small bear with a bad attitude and this one (a 30# female according to Roger--he didn't tell me her name--) had followed the trapline for 10 miles or more. She chewed the dead martens down from the traps,took them out from the trail and buried them in the snow. By the time I got going again, the sun was pretty well gone, so Roger told me to just head back to camp while he followed checking the rest of the traps. Well, my headlight went out almost immediately, so most of the trip back to camp was a matter of crashing through brush in the moonlight, trying to keep track of the trail and avoid most of the bigger trees that were close to the trail. Close in this regard means about 1/4" off the trail. Sometimes the skiis touch trees on both sides, or worse, bounce off a tree into another one. One of the keys is to keep your knees tucked well in to the machine. (Don't Ask Me How I kNow This-- DAMHINT for short) The next day (Saturday) I stayed in camp, fixing on the Bravo (new piston rings and recoil starter assembly plus another cylinder and piston) while Roger went back out with heavy duty traps to deal with the wolverine. He's a very patient person, BTW--now an angry word about any of this, even though he lost about $800 or $900 worth of furs. The weather started cooling off on Saturday, so that by the time he got "home" it was -35 at camp. We came back to Galena on Sunday at about -40 degrees. The return trip went fine, with a couple minor exceptions--the weather was apparently too cold for the new windshield on my snowgo, so it shattered when trees and brush hit it--I was leaving bits of clear plastic on the trail all day long. And at one point, the string on my heavy gloves (remember gradeschool when Mom tied your gloves on?) caught on a tree and tried to yank me off the snowgo by my neck. It broke (the string, not my neck), but none too soon. Evenings in camp were, well, like evenings in camp. I really like that kinda stuff--long conversations and listening to the radio while Roger skinned martens and worked on the furs. Roger is a fundamental Christian and a political conservative, and I'm a rabid liberal, anarchist, and atheist. All of the conversation was polite and respectful even so, which is quite unusual in my experience. He is also one of our in-laws (brother to Tam's husband Andrew), so I got a lot of his personal and family history. I hope to go out there again someday, but trapping for a living probably isn't in my future. PK Glad to be home for a while. It warmed up yesterday to -20; seems almost like spring. ******** Here's the favor. Roger told me that there was a National Geographic article about trapping, including pictures of him sitting in that very cabin skinning martens. It was published in 1959. If anyone has access to National Geos that far back, I would really like to get a copy of the article. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157695 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-03 15:07:59 Subject: Refurbishing files (long) Greetings all from warm, humid NSW Australia, I found this article in the May 12th 1955 Model Engineer magazine (I'm a tad behind in my reading backlog!!!) Was sumbitted by 'Bud' of Oakland Ca. 'Procure some sulphuric acid of about 1.250 specific gravity........... Procure an earthenware or glass pan large enough so that the files can be placed flat on the bottom.......... Clean the files with a file card or wire brush. I use a needle to flick off any metal particles stuck in the grooves. Place the files in the pan and pour in the 1.250 S.G. acid solution until they are covered. Or the acid can be poured in first ....... Very shortly small bubbles will form on the files as the acid eats into the grooves. If this does not happen within five minutes the acid is too strong. Simply pour in more water (!!!!!!) and stir. The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. Leave the files in for a couple of hours and then feel them to see if they are sharp. Very dull files that are almost smoothe should be left in for eight hours. When the files are really sharp, remove from acid and wash thoroughly in water. When they are dry they will have a slightly brownish tinge and unless given a coat of oil will rust rapidly................ (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are dangerous) Bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) solution will neutralise sulphuric acid. 1 tablespoon per quart of water solution is useful. The 1.250 S.G. solution can be reused. Pour the acid solution out of the pan into a glass jar leaving the black residue in the pan to be washed out..... Do not take files out too soon. It is better to leave them in too long than not long enough. They may feel sharp but are actually not etched deep, and if taken out too soon will become dull after a short time. After you have sharpened the same file for 20 years (!!!!!) it will become so thin that you can bend it around in a circle (!!!!!!) ' So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid sharpening of files. I make this disclaimer:- I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! Peter B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157696 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-03 15:38:14 Subject: Re: saw restoration and sharpening - info and tips BugBear writes: > In a bid to exploit modern technology to aid > ancient tools, I've created some printable files > to assist in controlling fleam angles > when filing teeth, and controlling tooth size/spacing > when re-toothing a saw. Galoots everywhere will, I believe, be extremely grateful to BugBear for a long time to come for his discriminating compilation of the best that there is out there in the ether on this saw sharpening business. Many thanks are also due for the teeth templates, one of which will be put to use shortly to recut the teeth of a nice little 12" Swedish Jarnbirger ab Orsa backsaw whose teeth I mangled some time ago. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157697 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-03 10:32:37 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... L.A. Root wrote: > Spike, > > I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that > reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what > he does? Yes. An excellent job. But there's very little exposition on the why he's doing what he's doing. If you read Pete Taran's write up a coupla' times AND THEN watch Tom Law's video, you'll be golden. Theory and understanding are very helpful if you want to vary your approach. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157698 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-03 07:41:00 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? --JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Peter B Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:08 PM To: 'Old Tools List' Subject: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) Greetings all from warm, humid NSW Australia, I found this article in the May 12th 1955 Model Engineer magazine (I'm a tad behind in my reading backlog!!!) Was sumbitted by 'Bud' of Oakland Ca. 'Procure some sulphuric acid of about 1.250 specific gravity........... Procure an earthenware or glass pan large enough so that the files can be placed flat on the bottom.......... Clean the files with a file card or wire brush. I use a needle to flick off any metal particles stuck in the grooves. Place the files in the pan and pour in the 1.250 S.G. acid solution until they are covered. Or the acid can be poured in first ....... Very shortly small bubbles will form on the files as the acid eats into the grooves. If this does not happen within five minutes the acid is too strong. Simply pour in more water (!!!!!!) and stir. The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. Leave the files in for a couple of hours and then feel them to see if they are sharp. Very dull files that are almost smoothe should be left in for eight hours. When the files are really sharp, remove from acid and wash thoroughly in water. When they are dry they will have a slightly brownish tinge and unless given a coat of oil will rust rapidly................ (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are dangerous) Bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) solution will neutralise sulphuric acid. 1 tablespoon per quart of water solution is useful. The 1.250 S.G. solution can be reused. Pour the acid solution out of the pan into a glass jar leaving the black residue in the pan to be washed out..... Do not take files out too soon. It is better to leave them in too long than not long enough. They may feel sharp but are actually not etched deep, and if taken out too soon will become dull after a short time. After you have sharpened the same file for 20 years (!!!!!) it will become so thin that you can bend it around in a circle (!!!!!!) ' So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid sharpening of files. I make this disclaimer:- I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! Peter B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157699 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-03 05:11:20 Subject: Fwd: AUSTIN HARDWOODS OLD TOOL SWAP MEET Self explanatory message follows. Begin forwarded message: > From: laura@t... > Date: March 3, 2006 2:15:00 AM PST > To: Laura Pitney > Subject: AUSTIN HARDWOODS OLD TOOL SWAP MEET > > Just a note to remind you that March 11 is the next Austin Hardwoods > Old Tool Swap Meet from 6AM-Noon.  The address is 610 N Santiago in > Santa Ana, CA (across from the Train Station).  The swap meet will be > held rain or shine (there's plenty of covered space in case it > rains).  >   > Anyone Can Sell.  Spaces are $10.00.  If you only have a few tools, > you can put them on my table. > Before you set up in the parking lot, make sure Drew is there.  If the > weather is good, we may be setting up in the dirt area in front of > Austin.  If you are coming from Northern CA or elsewhere, there is a > good antique area with lots of shops near Austin (Orange Circle) and > the Car Show is the next day at Vet Stadium in Long Beach (user tools > show up there in between all the car stuff).  > For More Information about the swap meet & Orange Circle, contact Drew > Shellenbarger 714-450-2365.  >   > For those of you who missed Anderson Plywood because of the treat of > rain, we had the event and had plenty of room for all the dealers to > set up with all of their tools.  John Arenson opened up several > spacious indoor areas for us to set up in.  We also had plenty of > buyers and it only rained for 15 minutes in Culver City.  Sales were > great and everyone had a good time. >   > Hope to see you at Austin Hardwoods.  Don't ya dare miss it! > Laura  > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157700 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-03 08:27:55 Subject: Wooden Plough Planes Gentle List, I sometimes see screw- or wedge-arm wooden planes with a nicker that are labeled as plough planes, whereas most of the time such wooden planes labeled as plough planes do not have nickers. Is one category mis-labeled or are both types plough planes? Thanks for your help. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157701 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-03 08:44:20 Subject: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... Hey Jim and Jim, J.D. was looking for help with sizing the screw on a Stanley 271 (wee router plane, Jeff) and the Millrat replied: >I just checked mine. The threads are 10-28... Isn't that a standard thread? I'm afraid it's not. 10-28 taps and dies can be had, but I've got another idea. It sounds to me like you're just lookin' to get yer routah back into service, right J.D.? If so, the hole can be retapped to 1/4-28 which is a standard size. Most hardware stores will have taps and thumbscrews in this size. Good luck. -Andy in Windsor, VT ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157702 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-03 08:50:35 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) JD responds to Peter B's tutorial on acid sharpening of files by asking: > Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? Well, any auto parts store should be able to fix you up. Flooded lead acid batteries use sulfuric acid for the electrolyte. Straight sulfuric acid has a specific gravity of 1.8, so you can add distilled water to it until it reaches 1.25...just buy a decent hygrometer and pay attention to the temperature compensation chart. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157703 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-03 08:55:24 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) Obviously, that should be a hydrometer, not hygrometer (measures mositure content of a gas).. Charlie -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Rodgers Charles Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:51 AM To: James DuPrie; Peter B; Old Tools List Subject: RE: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) JD responds to Peter B's tutorial on acid sharpening of files by asking: > Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? Well, any auto parts store should be able to fix you up. Flooded lead acid batteries use sulfuric acid for the electrolyte. Straight sulfuric acid has a specific gravity of 1.8, so you can add distilled water to it until it reaches 1.25...just buy a decent hygrometer and pay attention to the temperature compensation chart. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157704 ---- From: brian_welch@h... Date: 2006-03-03 09:32:26 Subject: Re: Addis History and Carving Tool Imprint Overview (Long) Gary, Thanks for that great compilation and overview of the Addis family. What could be more fun than researching edge tool manufacturers? Just last week, after Bugbear posted the link to the Addis history on the Hawley website, I stumbled across the online photo collection of the Sheffield Local Studies Library http://www.picturesheffield.com/database_search.php >From this page, click on the letter "E" and then scroll down to the categories "Edge Tool Manufacturers", "Edge Tool Production", and "Edge Tools." There are a bunch of cool pictures (including one of the Newbould factory*--hear that Charlie--are you out there?--and a portrait of William Butcher**). This one in particular caught my eye: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi- bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyv- al=sheff.refno=u02683 It is entitled "Nos 27-37, St. Thomas Street, after the demolition of adjoining back to back houses on the right. No. 27, (on left) premises of J.B. Addis & Sons Ltd., Edge Tool Manufacturers." It does not say when the picture was made, but I'm guessing it is after 1911, when the research trail started to go a little cold (I HATE when that happens!) Hope this is a helpful data point, and thanks again to Gary (and Don, of course!). Brian Welch Worcester, MA who has been spending his lunch breaks in the Harvard Business School library historical collections for the past few weeks. *Newbould factory: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi- bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyv- al=sheff.refno=s09773 **Butcher portrait: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi- bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyv- al=sheff.refno=u02736 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157705 ---- From: "Christopher J. Scholz" Date: 2006-03-03 06:54:49 Subject: Re: Whatsit Korean Plane Followup on your Korean plane: Manuel, a friend of mine who resides in Japan writes: "According to the kanji it says sth like “high speed, high quality plane, and tempered steel blade” My colleagues here tell me that the fast ones are for final smoothing, and they point out that they are used as the saws, in the opposite direction than the western ones. I will ask someone about the adjustment… Manuel" I'd be happy to forward any other questions to Manuel... ---- Manuel, here is are a few questions that came up in the oldools list: This is a plane that a list member picked up in Korea. This person is asking what kind of plane this is (final smoothing or rough planing). He also asks how to remove the plane iron and how to adjust it. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3442 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3444 Chris --- "Christopher J. Scholz" wrote: > Pete, > > Characters on the blade (image > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3442) > Translate to into: > High speed steel > > Characters on plane (image > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3444) > Translate into: > Brand name: Iron horse > > Translation of Chinese characters on Korean plane > courtesy of Prof. H. Huang at Purdue University in > West Lafayett, IN > http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~huang29/ > > Regards > > Chris survivor of a 0.001" of snows in Atlanta, GA > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157706 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-03 10:06:51 Subject: RE: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... All right! Now I'm ready to get going. If I can't find the right size screw (per Jim), I'll pick up the taps (per Andy) and hopefully be back in action. Should I be concerned about tapping from the current .180 to .25? is this likely to weaken the casting too much? Thanks --JD James J.B.N. DuPrie -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy) Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:44 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... Hey Jim and Jim, J.D. was looking for help with sizing the screw on a Stanley 271 (wee router plane, Jeff) and the Millrat replied: >I just checked mine. The threads are 10-28... Isn't that a standard thread? I'm afraid it's not. 10-28 taps and dies can be had, but I've got another idea. It sounds to me like you're just lookin' to get yer routah back into service, right J.D.? If so, the hole can be retapped to 1/4-28 which is a standard size. Most hardware stores will have taps and thumbscrews in this size. Good luck. -Andy in Windsor, VT ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157707 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-03 15:19:19 Subject: Re: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... James DuPrie wrote: > All right! Now I'm ready to get going. If I can't find the right size screw > (per Jim), I'll pick up the taps (per Andy) and hopefully be back in action. > Should I be concerned about tapping from the current .180 to .25? is this > likely to weaken the casting too much? Looking at my thread data, 28 tpi isn't common. Up in diameter from the measured #10-28, we have * #12-28, which is a UNF standard, at .216" * 7/32-28 which is a BSF standard at .2188" I don't suppose you'll be able to get BSF taps in the USA; they're not even common here! * 1/4-28 is also UNF, at .250" BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157708 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-03-03 10:55:21 Subject: Recommendations for honing compound[s] GGs, Once again I crawl from under the porch and into the light, seeking wisdom. What micron/grit honing compound[s] would you recommend for sharpening? Are multiple levels of abrasion necessary, or do you folks just use the same micron for all purposes? I see some advertised as "0.5 micron" and others as "medium" (big help, huh?), or green vs yellow. Since I don't have my handy decoder ring which converts green to a micron size, would you folks please share with me your thoughts? Any recommended manufacturers? Thanks, Steve, in Howell, NJ, about to take a dive into hard felt wheel sharpening ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157709 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-03 10:31:59 Subject: Neat tool for knifemakers or others doing inlay This came from my Art metal list. What a cool idea. http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html Most respectfully, Mike Rock ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157710 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-03 11:29:53 Subject: RE: Recommendations for honing compound[s] I think that in 3M language gray/black is 5 micron, yellow/green is 1 micron and whiteish is .3 micron Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:55 AM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Recommendations for honing compound[s] > > GGs, > > Once again I crawl from under the porch and into the light, > seeking wisdom. > > What micron/grit honing compound[s] would you recommend for > sharpening? > Are multiple levels of abrasion necessary, or do you folks > just use the same micron for all purposes? I see some > advertised as "0.5 micron" > and others as "medium" (big help, huh?), or green vs yellow. > Since I don't have my handy decoder ring which converts green > to a micron size, would you folks please share with me your > thoughts? Any recommended manufacturers? > > Thanks, > Steve, in Howell, NJ, about to take a dive into hard felt > wheel sharpening > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157711 ---- From: "Clay Risenhoover" Date: 2006-03-03 09:54:23 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) Don't know if this helps any, but Electrolyte Grade sulfuric acid is 1.265 SG usually, so it wouldn't take much water to cut it. This is the sulfuric acid used as electrolyte in lead acid batteries like car batteries. I've never tried to buy any though... -Clay -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of James DuPrie Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:41 AM To: 'Peter B'; 'Old Tools List' Subject: RE: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? --JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Peter B Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:08 PM To: 'Old Tools List' Subject: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) Greetings all from warm, humid NSW Australia, I found this article in the May 12th 1955 Model Engineer magazine (I'm a tad behind in my reading backlog!!!) Was sumbitted by 'Bud' of Oakland Ca. 'Procure some sulphuric acid of about 1.250 specific gravity........... Procure an earthenware or glass pan large enough so that the files can be placed flat on the bottom.......... Clean the files with a file card or wire brush. I use a needle to flick off any metal particles stuck in the grooves. Place the files in the pan and pour in the 1.250 S.G. acid solution until they are covered. Or the acid can be poured in first ....... Very shortly small bubbles will form on the files as the acid eats into the grooves. If this does not happen within five minutes the acid is too strong. Simply pour in more water (!!!!!!) and stir. The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. Leave the files in for a couple of hours and then feel them to see if they are sharp. Very dull files that are almost smoothe should be left in for eight hours. When the files are really sharp, remove from acid and wash thoroughly in water. When they are dry they will have a slightly brownish tinge and unless given a coat of oil will rust rapidly................ (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are dangerous) Bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) solution will neutralise sulphuric acid. 1 tablespoon per quart of water solution is useful. The 1.250 S.G. solution can be reused. Pour the acid solution out of the pan into a glass jar leaving the black residue in the pan to be washed out..... Do not take files out too soon. It is better to leave them in too long than not long enough. They may feel sharp but are actually not etched deep, and if taken out too soon will become dull after a short time. After you have sharpened the same file for 20 years (!!!!!) it will become so thin that you can bend it around in a circle (!!!!!!) ' So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid sharpening of files. I make this disclaimer:- I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! Peter B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157712 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-03 11:29:06 Subject: WTB Plow Plane Irons GG`s, Venturing into the world of plow planes. Looking for a set of irons. Prefer Sandusky but others are welcome so long as they match in tang dimension. Whatca got hidden away ? Sure is bright and sunny out here. Not so damp ether. John Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. Where the sun is shinning but it is still cold. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157713 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-03 08:44:40 Subject: Re: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... How about a metric tap. Don't have my tables in front of me, but I think a metric 6 -0.9 is the stanley replacement for the 14-20 or whatever hold the fence to the body on a 78. paul womack wrote: > James DuPrie wrote: > >> All right! Now I'm ready to get going. If I can't find the right size >> screw >> (per Jim), I'll pick up the taps (per Andy) and hopefully be back in >> action. >> Should I be concerned about tapping from the current .180 to .25? is >> this >> likely to weaken the casting too much? > > > Looking at my thread data, 28 tpi isn't common. > > Up in diameter from the measured #10-28, we have > > * #12-28, which is a UNF standard, at .216" > > * 7/32-28 which is a BSF standard at .2188" > > I don't suppose you'll be able to get BSF > taps in the USA; they're not even common here! > > * 1/4-28 is also UNF, at .250" > -- Kirk Eppler (650) 225-3911 Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157714 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-03 09:46:34 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes John and all, On 03 Mar., Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > I sometimes see screw- or wedge-arm wooden planes with a nicker > that are labeled as plough planes, whereas most of the time such > wooden planes labeled as plough planes do not have nickers. Is > one category mis-labeled or are both types plough planes? Perhaps the nickered planes are sash filletsters? Here's an (already sold) example on Martin Donnelly's site: http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_627/130871.htm Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157715 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-03 16:53:20 Subject: Re: Neat tool for knifemakers or others doing inlay Mike Rock wrote: > This came from my Art metal list. > What a cool idea. > http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html Mentioned in "Stan Shaw Master Culter, The Story Of A Sheffield Craftsman by Geoffrey Tweedale." He cited this as the gadget referred to when people said "In Sheffield they have a drill that will make square holes" BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157716 ---- From: marc.wolfe@g... Date: 2006-03-03 12:12:09 Subject: Marc A. Wolfe/CAI/CO/GSA/GOV is out of the office. I will be out of the office starting Fri 03/03/2006 and will not return until Sat 03/04/2006. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact my supervisor, Phil Klokis, if you need immediate assistance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157717 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-03 09:32:39 Subject: Re: Parsers??? > What a cool idea. > http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html Mike, Are you kidding me?? I love this! Just flobbles around in the hole until it's done? Wish I had a slightly closer look at the business end of the cutter Spectacular, or I guess I should say......... Brilliant! yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157718 ---- From: DaveMacArt@a... Date: 2006-03-03 12:47:13 Subject: Re 217 screws You don't have to re-tap the 271 . Stanley used 10/28 screws many places. 190,191,192, 78 depth stops, 140 side plates on and on. My personal favorite source is stanley butt gauges. They are common, usually cost less than a dollar at a flea market and you get 2 10/28 screws. I just tried one on a 271 and other than having a small extra shoulder it even looks right. If you don't have one I will send you one free. Dave MacArthur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157719 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-03 13:17:07 Subject: RE: Recommendations for honing compound[s] Sorry all, these are the colors of their papers by grit, not of their honing compounds. Might be the same, but I don't know. Jim - slinking away sheepishly and hoping someone else can help > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim Bellina > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:30 AM > To: 'Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS'; 'oldtools' > Subject: RE: [OldTools] Recommendations for honing compound[s] > > I think that in 3M language gray/black is 5 micron, > yellow/green is 1 micron and whiteish is .3 micron > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf > Of Shine, > > Stephen C (Steve), ALABS > > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:55 AM > > To: oldtools > > Subject: [OldTools] Recommendations for honing compound[s] > > > > GGs, > > > > Once again I crawl from under the porch and into the light, seeking > > wisdom. > > > > What micron/grit honing compound[s] would you recommend for > > sharpening? > > Are multiple levels of abrasion necessary, or do you folks just use > > the same micron for all purposes? I see some advertised as "0.5 > > micron" > > and others as "medium" (big help, huh?), or green vs yellow. > > Since I don't have my handy decoder ring which converts green to a > > micron size, would you folks please share with me your > thoughts? Any > > recommended manufacturers? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve, in Howell, NJ, about to take a dive into hard felt wheel > > sharpening > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157720 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-03 12:40:14 Subject: Re: Parsers??? Don't know Scott, but I AM building one of these widgets. That flobbles around! What a word!! Anyhow, I am making one. Done enough scrimshaw and bone carving to see some utility here. And just for the heck of it. I don't know if it will be accurate enough for fine inlay work, kinda doubt that. But to make the grave for an escutchion that gets pressed in, it should work. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157721 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-03 14:02:33 Subject: pictures from tool steel catalog I posted some pages from my tool catalog on galoot central. I'm not so good with pictures but I think you could print and read them. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3601 An inquiring mind was asking about this stuff earlier this week. If it's useful I can post more? Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157722 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-03 14:20:52 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes Hi Norm, Yep, that appears to be the case. Thus I can conclude that what is sometimes labeled as a 'Plough Plane' is really a sash filletser. This may be a silly question, but is a sash filletster also a 'plough plane'? Cheers, John -----Original Message----- From: Norm Wood To: oldtools@r... Sent: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:46:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Plough Planes John and all, On 03 Mar., Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > I sometimes see screw- or wedge-arm wooden planes with a nicker that > are labeled as plough planes, whereas most of the time such wooden planes > labeled as plough planes do not have nickers. Is one category mis-labeled or are > both types plough planes? Perhaps the nickered planes are sash filletsters? Here's an (already sold) example on Martin Donnelly's site: http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_627/130871.htm Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157723 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-03 13:46:22 Subject: RE: Wooden Plough Planes Dunbar has a pretty clear explanation of the difference between a plough plane and a sash fillister. First, a plough is designed to make a groove anywhere on the face of a board, whereas a fillister is designed to create a rabbet. The presence or absence of knickers simply makes the plane better or worse for cross-grain work (technically dado plane territory). However, what makes a sash fillister a SASH fillister is how the plane is designed to be used. The fence on a standard fillister registers against the front edge of the work - that is, the edge facing you. If you stepped forward, it would bump into your stomach. A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. Never having stuck window sash, my understanding is purely academic. So, to sum up, a plough makes a groove on the face of the board. A fillister makes a groove at the corner of a board (rabbet) registering against the near edge, and a sash fillister makes a rabbet, registering against the far edge of the board. Whew. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157724 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-03 13:27:10 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes John, Rob and all, On 03 Mar., filletsters multiplied like rabbets as Robert Weber wrote: ... > A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge > AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being > done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. > Never having stuck window sash, my understanding is purely academic. Just to add a few more details (not of my own making, however), Mssrs. May, Cramer and Taggert put forth a discussion of fillisters/filletsters in this thread from 2003: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=117081 where Mr. May describes the utility of registering off the far side of the work. Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157725 ---- From: "Andrew F in Australia" Date: 2006-03-04 07:54:19 Subject: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing files (long) Hi All, In Peter's original post re: sulphuric acid, he mentioned the following *critical* points which appeared to be missed in later posts: Subject: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) >The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, >since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. [Note - not really an issue here, as you need >98% purity acid to avoid eating steel, but I'd stick with their one part neat sulphuric acid to two parts water, or thereabouts.] [As a separate aside, SG1.25 sulphuric acid is not really a 'weak' mix of sulphuric - as others mentioned, its battery acid strength] Now to highlight the safety warnings ****************************************************** > (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water > into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are > dangerous) ****************************************************** > So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid > sharpening of files. > I make this disclaimer:- > I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. > I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to > anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! > Peter B Just to reiterate, it is definitely not a wise idea to add water to the acid - it generates sufficient heat to boil the water, resulting in instantaneously exploding acid baths. You always add the acid to the water (or other diluent) Or, as I was taught in high school and uni, and then went on to teach others: ******************************************************************** ** ** ** May his rest be long and placid, he added water to the acid ** ** ** ******************************************************************** Best regards, and take care, Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 1/03/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157726 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-03 14:05:17 Subject: froe handling i just received a fantastic blacksmith-made froe from bruce z., and i have a question about handling it. rather than being conical (wide on the sharp blade side) so it can be slid on and off of a handle, it's actually waisted, with the waist about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom (sharp blade side), flaring less on the bottom 1/3 than on the top. should i just carve the handle so it slip fits the size of the waist, flaring to accept the bottom 1/3 so it doesn't slip off? or make a "permanent" handle? and how long? i have a nice hunk of ash from roger van maren (thanks to both roger and bruce!!) i thought to use, it's about 16" long. otherwise i have a nice length of persimmon branch that might work... best, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157727 ---- From: "Tom Reading" Date: 2006-03-03 17:18:58 Subject: WTB - Bed Rock #608 frog and/or parts Gentle Galoots, I'm in the process of restoring to usable condition a Bed Rock #608 jointer. I need a few parts. At a minimum I need two "frog pins". These are the metal pins that go down through the top of the frog and fit into holes bored into the plane body. However, my preference would be a whole Bed Rock #608 frog complete with pins, frog clamping screws and adjusting screw. The frog I currently have has been modified and while it will probably work I'd prefer an unmodified frog. I'm fairly desperate - I'm well into the process of building my Roubo bench and I'm definitely going to need a functional #8 to flatten this beast. Thanks to all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157728 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-03 14:46:23 Subject: Carving In case you haven't noticed it yet, Wiktor has started putting up all the Chris Pye carving tutorials on the FineTools website. Chris Pye has given permission for this. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/ This material is in pdf form. Everything you ever wanted to know about carving, and more. The original material could be downloaded from Chris's web site, but it came as Windows .exe format which cannot be read by a Mac computer, so I could never read it. This is good stuff! Thanks a bunch, Wiktor! Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157729 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-03 18:02:56 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3 In a message dated 3/3/2006 10:12:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, oldtools- request@r... writes: >I just received a package with a saw I purchased. >TACONY SAW CO. on the etch... Medallion - Warranted Superior. >The design of the etch is very similar to other saws that Disston >produced for 3rd parties. >Never head of, never seen any literature on this company. Wictor, Check out this link for a pic of a Tacony saw and possibly a link to a gentleman who may know more about them from a different porch. FYI, Tacony was a neighborhood of Philadelphia and the predominant business there for years was Disston, so I have to believe this was a B-brand of theirs. Simonds Abrasives' plant was there, as well, at the corner of Fraley St & Tacony St. Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157730 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-03 15:04:37 Subject: Re: Carving FWIW... I agree with Jim. I've been a fan of Chris Pye's books, ebooks, and newletter for a long time. He's very thorough in both his work and teaching. --- James Thompson wrote: > In case you haven't noticed it yet, Wiktor has > started putting up all the Chris Pye carving >tutorials on http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/ << SNIP >> Good work Wik. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157731 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-03 15:21:55 Subject: Re: Neat tool for knifemakers or others doing inlay Okay this is way cool. I knew the that "Two-legged Parsers" existed, but I never had the process explained to me before. Sounds like a new project! Thanks for pointing this out Mike. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157732 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-03 19:05:30 Subject: Re: Refurbishing files Peter B wrote: > So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid > sharpening > of files. GG Is this how Boggs does it? Ed Minch Got a 12" Disston handsaw, probably out of a child's toolbox, for $5 today ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157733 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-04 00:16:46 Subject: Re: Parsers??? Genius. Yup...I'll be making one too. Thanks. -Wayne Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157734 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-03 16:49:03 Subject: Disston 122 Today at an estate sale I found a Disston 112. Curious about the value, I looked on the Bay. There are none for sale, and none showing in Completed Items. Are these that unusual? What about approximate value for a run of the mill 112? Did I do good for only $3? MEEP MEEP!! Is that a gloat, or what? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157735 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-03 19:24:55 Subject: Parser Got this reply from the Artmetal group. Seems we got beat out, an artist saw the Woodwright with it. > I've seen it in operation on "The Woodwrights shop" on PBS. A pretty cool > tool, and it does a nice job, very fast. Just a few pulls of the cord and > the insert is ready to go. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157736 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-03 17:42:59 Subject: Re: Refurbishing files Ed Heavens No Boggs does it in a precision manner with a high pressure abrasive slurry. Smooth, even, bright sharp. Unbelievably worth the money. The best scenario I could see for acid bath would be in "accidental" sharpening. Plunk n pray??? It's a drag postage will be fairly painful for you shipping to Boggs on the west coast. Don't overlook the flat rate post office boxes! Of course, high shipping to get your files and rasps sharpened is probably the only discomfort anyone on the east coast ever experiences over the entire subject of old tools. Pile of mint saws for peanuts Tom,.... Steve's $2 table,.......... Todd's ever salted wounds............indeed. :-) yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157737 ---- From: "Tony Zaffuto" Date: 2006-03-03 20:55:25 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files Scott and others, I've shipped files and rasps to Boggs several times from good ole' PA. Shipping was very reasonable each way. Course, when I shipped stuff it was generally 15 to 18 assorted files and rasps per shipment. Think the bill was $35 (roughly) each time. Very, very reasonable considering all files and rasps were better than new upon return. Highly recommended and lots safer than the acid trip. Tony Z. -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of scott grandstaff Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:43 PM To: porch Subject: Re: [OldTools] Refurbishing files Ed Heavens No Boggs does it in a precision manner with a high pressure abrasive slurry. Smooth, even, bright sharp. Unbelievably worth the money. The best scenario I could see for acid bath would be in "accidental" sharpening. Plunk n pray??? It's a drag postage will be fairly painful for you shipping to Boggs on the west coast. Don't overlook the flat rate post office boxes! Of course, high shipping to get your files and rasps sharpened is probably the only discomfort anyone on the east coast ever experiences over the entire subject of old tools. Pile of mint saws for peanuts Tom,.... Steve's $2 table,.......... Todd's ever salted wounds............indeed. :-) yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157738 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-03 22:24:59 Subject: Goodell Mfg Mitre Box Advertisement Fellow Mitre Box Users, I scanned the below Goodell manufacturing advertisement which Wiktor has now posted. Notice this is Goodell Manufacturing, not Goodell Pratt. I have 3 of these boxes, all a little different. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/Goodell-Pratt/Goodell-Pratt-MiterBox-ne.pdf When the H*ck is Spring gonna get her. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157739 ---- From: lunytools@a... Date: 2006-03-03 23:22:15 Subject: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Patina has their show Saturday March 11 in Damascus Maryland. The show starts at 8am and tailgating starts around 5, dress very warm and bring your flashlight. In the tailgating there will be alot of user stuff, wood and metalworking, there is a guy who comes with a big truck with all metalworking tools. They also have an auction after the show which is very good. All you guy who have been there chip in and fill in the blanks. Slav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157740 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-04 00:26:10 Subject: wooden jointer SWMBO's Valentine's Day present is finally done. I finished it a couple days ago. Yesterday I tried to make a new handle for my straight razor. (Yep, Bad Andy shaves with a straight razor). I ripped out some nice walnut scales and put it all together. Then I went to peen the pins that hold the end of the handle together and split the walnut. Got to make a new one. Softer pins next time. Well today I decided it was time to redo the mouth on the wooden jointer that was giving me so much trouble. So I said a little prayer that I would not destroy it and started in. Made a little maple patch and glued it in place earlier today. Got back from the Men's BBQ at church and SWMBO and the GIT had taken a friend to the doctor way over in Ann Arbor so I had the house all to myself. My prayer worked beacause I now have a wooden jointer that works beautifully. All this time the problem was the big mouth. I thought this would take days to finish not a few hours. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157741 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-04 05:57:58 Subject: Acid and Files A little help from the chemists on the Porch please. What is the relationship between Sulphuric acid and Muratic acid. I ask because I have a swimming pool and thus have Muratic around all the time. Can it be used to sharpen files? Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157742 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-04 06:20:00 Subject: Re: Different View on Saw Sharpening ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Lineback" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: Re: Different View on Saw Sharpening > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Lineback" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:12 AM > Subject: Different View on Saw Sharpening > > >> Wendy >> There has been some excellent advice passed out in this discussion but as >> some one who has been there let me suggest this. Once you have the >> basics; a sharpening vice, a set and the right size file then jump in and >> try. Get a rough idea of rake and fleam and all that other from Pete'site >> or wherever but then start. Get an eight point crosscut (bigger teeth are >> easier to see) joint it, oops forgot you need a jointer. set it and file >> away. If you have a dull but good saw the difference will amaze you. As >> long as you keep the tooth height the same and get the set evened out the >> difference will amaze you. You can refine your technique as you go but >> jump in. You will learn more faster by practice than reading. Saw >> sharpening is a good example of paralyses by analysis. >> Steve >> Although you might not want to start with that minty D-12 panel saw > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157743 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-04 21:37:35 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Steve Lineback wrote: > A little help from the chemists on the Porch please. What is the > relationship between Sulphuric acid and Muratic acid. Hi Steve, Muriatic Acid is another name for Hydrochloric Acid, so there is no relationship between Sulphuric Acid and Muriatic Acid. -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157744 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-04 07:17:38 Subject: Re: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3 In a message dated 3/3/2006 6:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, KWiktor@m... writes: >And where is the link? Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com Oops!!! Here's the link - http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=read- _count&om=331&forum=DCForumID15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157745 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-04 07:30:57 Subject: Re: Acid and Files My experience with HCL is that it is very corrosive and should be kept away from tools. My local hardware dealer has a separate storage shed out in the back corner of the lumber yard to keep it in. That's how serious a problem it is to him. In a former life I worked in a plant that made it. The stuff eats everything metalic. It is / was used in metal etching. You can put a pretty design on a gun or knife with it. This would be a galoot method. Modern method would use lazer or electric processes. Once it gets on metal it needs to be soaked in a baking soda solution to kill it. > > A little help from the chemists on the Porch please. What is the > > relationship between Sulphuric acid and Muratic acid. > > Hi Steve, Muriatic Acid is another name for Hydrochloric Acid, so there > is no relationship between Sulphuric Acid and Muriatic Acid. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157746 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-04 08:49:42 Subject: Re: Acid and Files I have a good bit of HCl in my lab. Unfortunately we do not have an acid cabinet made of wood (a good galooty project if I ever saw one, they cost upwards of $1000 when purchased from a distributor). So I store it in a metal cabinet. The combination of fumes from HCL and Butyric acid have stripped all the paint and a good number of layers of metal from the cabinets. I'm just glad the cabinet is under the fume hood, so the fumes go out the building and don't float around long. Someday I will address the issue, probably in another 30 years, time permitting. Having seen the capabilities of both HCL and H2SO4 on a number of occasions, I would be very careful with either when using them for etching or tool sharpening. I would consider them as potentially dangerous (or more so) as a badly set up electrolysis bath. As such, I won't be playing around with either of these acids in my basement anytime soon. Nathaniel >My experience with HCL is that it is very corrosive and should be >kept away from tools. My local hardware dealer has a separate >storage shed out in the back corner of the lumber yard to keep >it in. That's how serious a problem it is to him. > >In a former life I worked in a plant that made it. The stuff eats >everything metalic. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157747 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-04 07:50:04 Subject: RE: Wooden Plough Planes Robert Weber wrote: >However, what makes a sash fillister a SASH fillister is how the plane is >designed to be used. The fence on a standard fillister registers against the >front edge of the work - that is, the edge facing you. ... > >A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge >AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being >done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. In part, this may come down to a matter of semantics, but in use, the fence of the sash fillister registers on the near/front edge of the munton/mullion being rabbeted/rebated. The difference from the moving fillister is that, through the agency of the armed fence, it reaches in past the moulding and fillet, and cuts the rabbet/rebate at the far edge (or edge away from the worker). The moving fillister cuts the rabbet/rebate at the same edge it is registered on. This accomplishes two things. By registering both the sash (profile) plane and the sash fillister plane on the front face/edge of the sash member, the profile and rabbet/rebate on every member are the same width/depth from the face, so that any slight discrepancies in the depth of the sash members can be accounted for at the, flat, back face. These very minor discrepancies can be removed without altering the depth of the moulding or the relationship of the rabbets/rebates. The other thing this accomplishes is that both the moulding and the rabbet/rebate can be run in the same direction. If the material has been carefully selected so that this is the best direction for planing each member, this should result in the cleanest surfaces straight from both planes. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157748 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-04 08:12:50 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Does there exist anywhere a reasonable list of contacts for galootish events (such as Patina, LFOD, the various annual larger swap meets, localized club events, etc..). Several folks dropped me a line when we first put the calendar up on Galoot Central to join Rob's wonderful link farm but it would be useful to be able to populate it with regular info from the sources since unless the event is reasonably local to SE Wisconsin, the best info I'll have is gleaned from list postings .. Guidance from any who regularly follow and/or attend events most appreciated! cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin .. working yet another weekend...... On 3/3/06, lunytools@a... wrote: > Patina has their show Saturday March 11 in Damascus Maryland. The > show starts at 8am and tailgating starts around 5, dress very warm and > bring your flashlight. In the tailgating there will be alot of user > stuff, wood and metalworking, there is a guy who comes with a big truck > with all metalworking tools. They also have an auction after the show > which is very good. All you guy who have been there chip in and fill > in the blanks. > > Slav > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157749 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-04 11:31:59 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Robert, Thanks for the cite to that helpful review. Paul, thanks for the comment and the review! If Tom Law is at Patina again this year I'll look for his video. Larry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157750 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-04 09:01:10 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... On Saturday 04 March 2006 08:31 am, L.A. Root wrote: > If Tom Law is at Patina again this year I'll look for his video. There's a couple places you can buy it online, Lie-Nielsen sells it on their website for one, if you or anyone else was looking for it. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157751 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-04 07:38:02 Subject: Re: Re: Different View on Saw Sharpening Thanks Steve!! Yes, Pete's site is invaluable. He has articles about setting. cleaning and filing. His cleaning instructions are different than the other one I've seen. He recommends scraping at a low angle followed by mineral spirits. The article I read first said soaking in penetrating fluid to get rid of the rust. Well, I tried it and I don't know if I did it right but it didn't work. I might try doing some scraping as per Pete. He didn't say one needs a jointer but he was pretty specific in terms of the files you need. I'll have to hunt down a saw vice. They can be had for about $10 from what I can tell. Thanks again! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157752 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-04 09:09:40 Subject: Re: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing files Actually, galoots, let's just "file" this whole thread with the Red Green videos, because that's where it belongs. Messing with battery acid deserves full-on lab safety gear, including at least safety glasses, rubber gloves, and a safe place to work, away from solvents, wood, and other tools. Yeah, I know, I've done it too, but that doesn't make it smart. File sharpening, on the other hand, is easy, cheap, and perfectly safe. Mail them to Boggs, pay the buck or two per file, and relax. The most dangerous part is taking the package to the PO. http://www.boggstool.com/ PK In Galena Alaska "Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157753 ---- From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Date: 2006-03-04 12:17:49 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? and - do NOT try to tell me that "Acid is SMART" - just 'cause I'm a dumb preacher! Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157754 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-04 10:22:07 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 On 4 Mar 2006 at 8:12, Jim Esten wrote: > Does there exist anywhere a reasonable list of contacts for galootish > events (such as Patina, LFOD, the various annual larger swap meets, > localized club events, etc..). I should be the contact for any PAST events, which are shown on the web site. I also am trying to add events from clubs with which have reciprocal membership agreements (e.g., PATINA) but I am clearly dependent on being notified of upcoming events by whoever has responsibility for such things. http://pasttools.org and click on upcoming events. Consider this a list reminder about the upcoming event in Spreckels in a couple of weeks.... -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157755 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-04 15:51:08 Subject: Re: Re: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing I'll second that and add this: http://www.victornet.com/cgi-bin/victor/specials.html You can buy files from these folks for about $1 apiece if you'll take 10 at a time. Yes I have and yes they're nicholson brand. > > From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" > Date: 2006/03/04 Sat PM 01:09:40 EST > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Re: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing files > (long) > > Actually, galoots, let's just "file" this whole thread with the Red Green > videos, because that's where it belongs. Messing with battery acid deserves > full-on lab safety gear, including at least safety glasses, rubber gloves, > and a safe place to work, away from solvents, wood, and other tools. Yeah, > I know, I've done it too, but that doesn't make it smart. > > File sharpening, on the other hand, is easy, cheap, and perfectly safe. > Mail them to Boggs, pay the buck or two per file, and relax. The most > dangerous part is taking the package to the PO. > > http://www.boggstool.com/ > > PK > In Galena Alaska > "Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you." > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157756 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-04 16:50:19 Subject: WTB - #8 Frog, Type 8 Preferred, but Type 6 or 7 OK I have a rough-but-usable #8 plane with the top of the frog fractured. The frog has a 'B' casting, which was Type 8 and ran for just a couple years *before* 1902 but it is compatible with Type 7 (the 'S' casting) and Type 6 which started in 1888. I'd like to get a replacement frog . . . ideally with a lateral lever, but as long as it is complete, I can work with it. Thanks, Gary K Close to Buffalo NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157757 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-04 17:05:59 Subject: Flour City Saw Oh wise Galoots.. I've ended up with a so-so saw with an etch that reads "Flour City.) I don't think it's taper ground. The etch has a picture of a skyline on a lake, and the name. Google informs me that Rochester NY was the Flour City (until Minneapolis came along, that is) and that they did have metal works and did make edged tools there. Otherwise zip. Does anyone else have any interesting nuggets about this manufacturer? Walt Cheever ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157758 ---- From: buz.buskirk@e... Date: 2006-03-04 11:10:52 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes St. Roy also shows how to use a sash fillister to gauge the thickness of floor planks. Dress the face (up) side to the desired finish. Chuck it in the bench vise, up-side toward the worker. Then make a few passes with the sash fillister to start a rabbet on the side away from the worker. The rabbet defines how far the plank will rise above the floor joists. Rotate and repeat on the other edge of the plank. Crudely mark the location of your floor joists on the plank. At these marks, connect the two rabbets with an adz or skew rabbet to make a crude dado that will accept the width of the joist. It eliminates the need to thickness the bottom side of the floor boards. This probably worked well when you were felling timber and converting it near the building site. You could get a lot of the work done with wood that is partially dry and easy to work. Then folks could dress the floors a few weeks later. It's also another example of how hand-tool methods can be radically different from machine-tool methods. I think that some people criticize hand tools only after trying to use them was imitations of machine tools. On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 01:46:22PM -0600, Robert Weber wrote: > ... > > A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge > AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being > done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. > Never having stuck window sash, my understanding is purely academic. > -- Buz Buskirk Richmond, Kentucky ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157759 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-04 18:17:45 Subject: Re: Acid and Files On Mar 4, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: > > Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? > > Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? > That has been my problem with the acid bath. It makes no sense. I do use acid to clean my files once in a while though. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157760 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-03-04 18:36:44 Subject: So Cal Swap Meet at AUSTIN HARDWOODS Southern California Galoots - Here is the announcement for next week's, March 11th, oldtools swap meet. Lew -----Original Message----- From: laura@t... [mailto:laura@t...] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 2:15 AM To: Laura Pitney Subject: AUSTIN HARDWOODS OLD TOOL SWAP MEET Just a note to remind you that March 11 is the next Austin Hardwoods Old Tool Swap Meet from 6AM-Noon. The address is 610 N Santiago in Santa Ana, CA (across from the Train Station). The swap meet will be held rain or shine (there's plenty of covered space in case it rains). Anyone Can Sell. Spaces are $10.00. If you only have a few tools, you can put them on my table. Before you set up in the parking lot, make sure Drew is there. If the weather is good, we may be setting up in the dirt area in front of Austin. If you are coming from Northern CA or elsewhere, there is a good antique area with lots of shops near Austin (Orange Circle) and the Car Show is the next day at Vet Stadium in Long Beach (user tools show up there in between all the car stuff). For More Information about the swap meet & Orange Circle, contact Drew Shellenbarger 714-450-2365. For those of you who missed Anderson Plywood because of the treat of rain, we had the event and had plenty of room for all the dealers to set up with all of their tools. John Arenson opened up several spacious indoor areas for us to set up in. We also had plenty of buyers and it only rained for 15 minutes in Culver City. Sales were great and everyone had a good time. Hope to see you at Austin Hardwoods. Don't ya dare miss it! Laura ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157761 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-04 20:38:08 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:50:04 -0600 Don McConnell wrote: > In part, this may come down to a matter of semantics, but > in use, the > fence of the sash fillister registers on the near/front > edge of the > munton/mullion being rabbeted/rebated. The difference > from the moving > fillister is that, through the agency of the armed fence, > it reaches > in past the moulding and fillet, and cuts the > rabbet/rebate at the > far edge (or edge away from the worker). The moving > fillister cuts > the rabbet/rebate at the same edge it is registered on. > Thanks Don. Well put, and less obfuscated than my explanation. That, and I was technically backwards. You don't register the fence on the far side, you work the rabbet on the far side, registering on the near side. I knew it was something like that... Rob in Peoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157762 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-05 22:11:12 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Hi all, Maybe the 'sharpening' effect of the acid is merely cleaning out accumulated debris from the teeth. Peter B, Australia James Thompson wrote: > > On Mar 4, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: > >> >> Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? >> >> Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? >> > > That has been my problem with the acid bath. It makes no sense. > > I do use acid to clean my files once in a while though. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157763 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 08:29:40 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Ken Meltsner wrote: > Just picked up a #18 block plane with the spiffy knuckle joint lever > cap. Lever cap is in good user condition (very little plating left), > but it's missing one of the hinge pins that supports the joint between > the two cap pieces. > > The remaining pin looks like it was swaged on the outside, but I'm not > sure how it was attached on the other end of the pin (the end nearest > the center screw). Was it threaded on one end and then swaged to lock > in place? Or was it flared/swaged on one end, inserted and then > swaged. > > It's somewhat embarrassing to admit that I've gone down into the shop, well - let's just say, "a few" times to look at a type 1 levercap and each time gotten sidetracked by shop farting-around. I accomplished my mission this morning. I think the answer is the latter. Oddly, of the two knuckle-caps I looked at each seemed somewhat different in the way the pin is secured. One looks different on each side! One looks like the pin is preformed to a size on the inboard side, placed into position through the holes in the levercap pieces, and swaged on the outside. The other is the same, but looks like a washer is used underneath the swaged end of the pin. The patent for the levercap is patiently awaiting your visit at DATAMP: http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=355031&type=UT If you click on the USPTO images link, perhaps you will find more information by looking at the document. I'm suffering with a Quicktime problem and can't see it on this computer. Regards, Steve - big fan of type 2 knuckle-caps. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157764 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 08:44:47 Subject: Re: Re: micrometers On Feb 27, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Karl W. Sanger wrote: > Also, to answer the question of who made the in first, one has > to decide what a "micrometer" is. Is it something that measures in > 1000ths or smaller of a meter? Does it have to be sort of "U" shaped > with a thimble and barrel? Or can it be any vernier comparator that > measures in parts of a meter and closes on the object being measured. > What do you think? > > I don't have anything relevant to the subject, but want to reinforce your observation about defining "what it is". In matters taxonomical, and otherwise trying to get a large group of people talking the same language, it is essential to define things from the start. It also helps to understand that people of intelligence and goodwill will have differences of opinions as to how to define things. Just say, no need to get into a bloody incannel gouge fight with someone because you think it is a shoemaker's blurfl, and he myopically thinks it is a saddler's tool. Or when you KNOW it is a style of Holtzwhammer known to be from Philadelphia, and that sad misanthrope insist it comes from Sheffield. And how about the time that pathetic dilettante poseur thought the Kent pattern Frammulis had rosewood....., I change my mind, get out the incannels, me and dumb@s... are going at this from 10 paces. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157765 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-05 08:49:34 Subject: Re: Acid and Files For anyone interested in fooling around with acid at home, thereby avoiding Boggs's excellent services, I will say that the pretty harmless citric acid bath also seems to sharpen up old files to a surprising degree. As with much of my knowledge, this came by accident. I don't remember what strength or how long, so there's no use asking. While the results were useful, the files wern't super-sharp. Me, I'll use Boggs next time... John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157766 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-05 06:32:07 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) Steve Reynolds wrote: > > On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Ken Meltsner wrote: > >> Just picked up a #18 block plane with the spiffy knuckle joint lever >> cap. Lever cap is in good user condition (very little plating left), >> but it's missing one of the hinge pins that supports the joint between >> the two cap pieces. >> >> The remaining pin looks like it was swaged on the outside, but I'm not >> sure how it was attached on the other end of the pin (the end nearest >> the center screw). Was it threaded on one end and then swaged to lock >> in place? Or was it flared/swaged on one end, inserted and then >> swaged. >> >> > > It's somewhat embarrassing to admit that I've gone down into the > shop, well - let's just say, "a few" times to look at a type 1 > levercap and each time gotten sidetracked by shop farting-around. I > accomplished my mission this morning. > > I think the answer is the latter. Oddly, of the two knuckle-caps > I looked at each seemed somewhat different in the way the pin is > secured. One looks different on each side! One looks like the pin is > preformed to a size on the inboard side, placed into position through > the holes in the levercap pieces, and swaged on the outside. The > other is the same, but looks like a washer is used underneath the > swaged end of the pin. > > My 18 has a single pin through both sides. Appears to come in the left (relative to usage, and is swaged or whatever on the right. Interestingly, the lobe on the inside piece is bigger on the left, also. -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157767 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-05 10:47:21 Subject: Chris Pye Tutorials I quickly read the Chris Pye carving tutorials Wiktor has now put on his site and have to say they are great! Many times I read posts both here and in other groups where it is assumed just ownership of a tool is the answer to a successful project completion. Skills, both learned and natural, are completely overlooked or deemed unnecessary and often, burning electrons, or tool acquisition is the panacea to poor skill levels or workmanship. So go read Chris's excellent teachings and apply liberal doses to every project. Practice, practice, practice and skill will come. But above all keep the passion alive by participating in whatever form of Galootism you have chosen as often as possible. Thanks Wiktor and thanks to Chris for confirming the principles of learning by observing and doing. Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157768 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-05 09:27:35 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) Of course, should have noted that mine is a #18 by craftsman. Looks just like the top right pic in Blood and Gore on the #18 Kirk Eppler wrote: > > My 18 has a single pin through both sides. Appears to come in the > left (relative to usage, and is swaged or whatever on the right. > Interestingly, the lobe on the inside piece is bigger on the left, also. > -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157769 ---- From: Bill Owens Date: 2006-03-05 13:15:23 Subject: Any tool roll collectors? It was a good week at the flea market, still stunted by the season, but with the three indoor buildings mostly full. I hauled home an Atkins saw (my first), a Millers Falls #29 breast drill (my third, all in the last month!), a probably Stanley No 6 fore plane in not too bad shape, and the prize - a Millers Falls #771 12 inch sweep brace with the Lion chuck, along with 29 assorted bits. The bits actually came in a batch of 13 that was out on the table along with the brace, and a bonus after I'd bought them; a canvas tool roll with another 16 hidden inside. So now I have a nice bunch of bits, not a complete set of anything but most in OK condition, and including some designs that I've never run into before. But I also have this old canvas tool roll. Unfortunately I can't stand the things, and never use them. This one is made of heavy canvas, with 15 pockets of varying widths, 32 inches overall width and about 12 inches height. It closes with a leather strap like a small belt. Unfortunately it has some holes worn at the tops of the larger pockets, but it isn't moldy or otherwise unpleasant. And here's the question - before I toss it in the trash, is there someone out there who would want such a thing? If so, tell me and it will be on the way to you. Maybe not instantly since I'm going to North Carolina tomorrow on a business trip, but soon. I always hesitate before discarding something like this, just in case someone wants to give it a home. . . Bill, in sunny Syracuse, NY PS - I've never visited Millers Falls, Massachusetts, but I have the feeling that it must be built at the base of the hill. I certainly feel as if I'm somewhere above it, sliding down the slope. I've gone from having one eggbeater, to the new brace, three breast drills, a beautiful spiral screwdriver and a backsaw (and I didn't even know they made saws?!) Now I've started to look for planes ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157770 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-05 14:07:48 Subject: Busted #8 frogs Hey Y'all, I'm just wondering what is the deal with #8 frogs being busted so often? Lately, it seems every few days someone is looking for one. I have a couple of #8's that have the same problem, specifically, a 608 round side and a #8 that is going to get parted out. Were the users of these planes ham-handed, or is it the weight of the plane, or what? Any thoughts out there? Inquiring minds want to know (TM somebody or other) Bruce Z. Kearney, MO -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/270 - Release Date: 2/27/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157771 ---- From: "Scott Garrison" Date: 2006-03-05 15:16:16 Subject: Re: Disston 122 Jim, the 112 should be about the same "base" value as an equivalent 12. the quality is identical, the only difference is skewback for the 112 whereas the 12 is a straight back. The cost per dozen was $1 more for the 112 than the 12 in the early 1900's. Truth be told, they are a whole lot more rare in the field than the 12s though so should also be more valuable. As for what you paid, I think you got taken for $3 but because I like all the extra info that your pics on your website provide I'll do you a favor and give you $5 for it if you throw in a chisel or two to make it worth my while. Scott Garrison Duluth GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" Today at an estate sale I found a Disston 112. Curious about the value, Are these that unusual? What about approximate value for a run of the mill 112? Did I do good for only $3? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157772 ---- From: Willie Young Date: 2006-03-05 15:16:39 Subject: Thanks to all Wanted to say thank you to the many folks who responded to my questions regarding Stanley Sweetheart planes. MGB/Willie Young ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157773 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-05 16:25:21 Subject: Chisel Handles Here is a link to some chisel handles I recently made. I used Jim Thompson's method to make the one with the leather washers. All it needs now is a finish. http://members.cox.net/wcrittner/handlepg.htm Thanks Jim. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157774 ---- From: "Steve Johnson" Date: 2006-03-05 13:35:13 Subject: Tool Event Calendar I'm trying to build a calendar at http://community.finetools.com. Anyone from the Oldtools list can add tool events you know of easily to this calendar, and if you are using Outlook for an email client you can import all the tool events easily into your Outlook program. You can also add yourself to get an emailed alert message whenever someone adds a new event to the list. This is still in development so if you have ideas for making it better let me know. Thanks. Steve Johnson -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Jim Esten Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:13 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Does there exist anywhere a reasonable list of contacts for galootish events (such as Patina, LFOD, the various annual larger swap meets, localized club events, etc..)... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157775 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-05 16:41:15 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes buz.buskirk@e... wrote: >St. Roy also shows how to use a sash fillister to gauge the thickness >of floor planks. Dress the face (up) side to the desired finish. Chuck >it in the bench vise, up-side toward the worker. Then make a few >passes with the sash fillister to start a rabbet on the side away from >the worker. The rabbet defines how far the plank will rise above the >floor joists. Rotate and repeat on the other edge of the >plank. Crudely mark the location of your floor joists on the plank. At >these marks, connect the two rabbets with an adz or skew rabbet to >make a crude dado that will accept the width of the joist. [...] Also, marking the thickness in this manner --as opposed to, say, along the edge with a marking-gauge as you would usually do if you were working at your bench-- has the advantage that you don't need to continually lift the board to "see how close you are". (That is, it provides a way of checking your work from the top surface, in place.) This is particularly useful when you are working with big boards (that you don't want to keep moving around). Or as in the in example above, of working floor planks, where the board's edges can be butted up together, side to side (or, indeed, might be forming the surface you are standing on!) N ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157776 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-05 16:45:36 Subject: Re: Busted #8 frogs At 03:07 PM 3/5/2006, genfurn wrote: >Hey Y'all, > >I'm just wondering what is the deal with #8 frogs being busted so >often? Lately, it seems every few days someone is looking for >one. I have a couple of #8's that have the same problem, >specifically, a 608 round side and a #8 that is going to get parted >out. Were the users of these planes ham-handed, or is it the weight >of the plane, or what? I have seen a number of them out here at my end of the world as well. Always low knobs. You get sucked in by seeing the length, then the low knob, then no lateral adjuster, and you turn it over and........... And of course, the seller always has the comment of "oh it should be easy to find another one"..... Uh huh, yeah right Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157777 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-05 16:51:59 Subject: And This Week's Winner Of the most. shall we say "creative" chisel handle replacement goes to whom ever did this wonderful bit of work. http://oldetoolshop.com/toolpics/dawinner.jpg And NOT only did he heat the tang so that the plastic was wrapped around like the death grip of an anaconda, but he so nicely rounded over the end so as to leave nothing to catch with a cold chisel to try and drive it off with. I know, I could have heated the blade just above the tang bolster, but I don't have a torch here. So we did a little creative "Hacksaw 101" to get close enough so I could split the rest off with a regular chisel. Oh well, all in a day's tools. Tony (where the tool pickings of late have been mightly slim) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157778 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-05 16:21:03 Subject: RE: Chris Pye Tutorials Peter and Gentle Galoots, Let me preface my remarks by re-affirming my support for Wictor's endeavours and the skills that are taught via tutorials such as by Chris Pye. I also respect Peter's comments on acquisition of skills. I believe though that I must come clean before the assemblage of Galoots far and wide. I am a certifiable NeanderBub! There are on this list many true craftpersons who seek to learn lost and forgotten skills. They also practice, practice, practice. They do spectacular work. As a true NeanderBub I really like to muddle along with a little information, but with more appreciation for the process of independent discovery. And, I love old tools. And, I probably do not do most of them justice! But, I preserve them and enjoy using them just the same. Now, I do not denigrate the skills of those who practice to achieve perfection, but that isn't what I want to do. I would have made a lousy apprentice. As Edison said about the process of inventing the light bulb--he now knew a thousand ways not to make one--or something similar to that! Unlike Edison, once I have mastered something to my satisfaction, that I set out to accomplish, I am ready to move on to something else. I get bored easily and I love unstructured learning. Hey, and sometimes I achieve remarkable results and sometimes I need a few stitches along the way. Are there other NeanderBubs out there or am I majority of one--sort of out standing in my field--as in by myself? Surely there must be some Galoots out there who go for breadth of knowledge rather than depth and perfection. If you still want to know how many things you can fix with a piece of baling wire you may be a NeanderBub! If you know what baling wire is you may be a NeanderBub and not know it! Stand up--not on four, but on two feet and show your hairy sloped forehead with true pride. Paul in Normal PS I'd duck and run for cover, but some of us NeanderBubs don't know enough to come in out of the rain! We excel at outdoor fleas though! Rust is our legacy. > Subject: [OldTools] Chris Pye Tutorials > > I quickly read the Chris Pye carving tutorials Wiktor has now put on > his site and have to say they are great! > Many times I read posts both here and in other groups where it is > assumed just ownership of a tool is the answer to a successful project > completion. > Skills, both learned and natural, are completely overlooked or deemed > unnecessary and often, burning electrons, or tool acquisition is the > panacea to poor skill levels or workmanship. So go read Chris's > excellent teachings and apply liberal doses to every project. Practice, > practice, practice and skill will come. But above all keep the passion > alive by participating in whatever form of Galootism you have chosen as > often as possible. > Thanks Wiktor and thanks to Chris for confirming the principles of > learning by observing and doing. > Peter > I have moved to: > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157779 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-05 17:07:29 Subject: First semi-successful Dovetail.. I hand cut my first semi-successful dovetail joint this morning. It's far from perfect and a lot more practice is necessary but it's a start! I had some problems with the wood is it is a bit warped and started cracking but it went together anyway. I posted the pix on my fotki site: http://public.fotki.com/sarrett/dovetail/ Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157780 ---- From: "Ken Meltsner" Date: 2006-03-05 16:26:39 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) Thanks for checking your type 1s. Should have known that Stanley wouldn't do anything the same way twice... Kirk writes: >Of course, should have noted that mine is a #18 by craftsman. And I should have used a tape measure -- it turns out I have a #19, not a #18. Same details, except it's an inch longer. Ken Meltsner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157781 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-05 14:37:38 Subject: Re: Chisel Handles Outstanding! You done GOOD, Bill! On Mar 5, 2006, at 4:25 PM, Bill Rittner wrote: > Here is a link to some chisel handles I recently made. I used Jim > Thompson's > method to make the one with the leather washers. All it needs now is a > finish. > > http://members.cox.net/wcrittner/handlepg.htm > > Thanks Jim. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out > alive!" (unknown) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157782 ---- From: Bill Owens Date: 2006-03-05 17:45:16 Subject: Re: Any tool roll collectors? On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 01:15:23PM -0500, Bill Owens wrote: > And here's the question - before I toss it in the trash, is there someone > out there who would want such a thing? And in fact, there are such people ;) The roll will be on its way to a new home just as soon as I find a box for it. . . Bill. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157783 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-05 15:02:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 02:07 pm, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I hand cut my first semi-successful dovetail joint this morning. It's far > from perfect and a lot more practice is necessary but it's a start! I had > some problems with the wood is it is a bit warped and started cracking but > it went together anyway. I posted the pix on my fotki site: > > http://public.fotki.com/sarrett/dovetail/ Wendy, I wouldn't worry about perfection, as you see in your 3rd pic after you planed it, it doesn't look too bad. Congrats for taking the plunge and pursuing handcut dovetails, it is certainly the epitomy of fine craftsmanship. How did you cut this one? I'm just curious, to compare the various ways I've tried. Some do pins first, some do tails first, etc... Frank Klausz made a video of creating a dovetailed drawer. He uses little, if any measuring tools. It's a great style, and it works well for him. What I really like about this style is that it allows a person to focus on the process and creating the joints, without have hassles of marking them out. This is a great way to practice. But one thing about Frank's style that doesn't work as well for me is that Frank cuts the pins and tails aprox. the same size, and I like the narrower, Rob Cosman style of pins. I actually think this style not only looks cleaner, but is stronger. It has tails almost completely surrounding the pin side with the opposing force, on the joint, i.e., the narrow side of the pin (if that makes sense to others;-). For real projects, I have started marking in a more symetrical fashion, using dividers and a more symetrical pattern, I find that more pleasing. Joinery is facinating to me... There's a ton of good info, on the porch and out in cyber... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157784 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-06 10:15:51 Subject: Australian Wood Review *www.woodreview.com.au* Fellow Galoots , I have been a subscriber to Australian Wood Review Magazines for a couple of years now. Each magazine supplies excellent tutorials on hand tools , woodwork projects , including a whole range of skills that include woodturning , carving , cabinet work , ect. The editors involved , are highly respected in their field of expertise. This magazine has been classed as one of the best available- world wide. I have viewed other magazines form diiferent countries , and would agree with this appraisal. I have no financial gain from telling you of this magazines benefits. If you wish to , search the above mentioned web site. Regards Stewart Simpson / Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157785 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-05 17:30:21 Subject: Re: And This Week's Winner Sheesh, Tony, don't be so sensitive. After all, you coulda used it till it broke and then tried to find another "original" plastic handle to replace it. Bruce Z. Duckin' and Runnin' in Kearney, MO > Of the most. shall we say "creative" chisel handle replacement goes to > whom ever did this wonderful bit of work. > > http://oldetoolshop.com/toolpics/dawinner.jpg -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/270 - Release Date: 2/27/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157786 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-05 18:35:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. >Wendy posted pics of her first hand cut dovetails.< Nice job for your first try. You will find hand cutting dovetails to be very rewarding. Now that you have done a joint may I suggest that you try a better wood for this joint. Pine is difficult to cut across grain even with a sharp chisel. Mahagony would be a better choice as it cuts much cleaner than pine and you can find small pieces at Woodcraft if you have one nearby. Failing that poplar would be a better choice than pine, especially the stuff at the big box stores. Whatever you do keep practicing and soon you will be cutting furniture quality joints. It doesn't take as long as you might think. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157787 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-05 18:49:39 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 06:02 pm, Alan DuBoff wrote: > I wouldn't worry about perfection, as you see in your 3rd pic after you > planed it, it doesn't look too bad. Thanks Alan! Actually, I didn't plane it....must be the camera angle. But the wood would really need a good jointing and planing if being used for a real project. It's kindof cupped. > How did you cut this one? I'm just curious, to compare the various ways > I've tried. Some do pins first, some do tails first, etc... > Actually, I attempted to follow Mr. Klausz method. I was privileged to see him making them at a free demo locally last weekend and then purchased his video in order to review what I had seen. (He's a very nice gentleman BTW.) I did however mark out my initial layout so it would be reasonably even...Mr. Klausz, being an expert, just does it by eye and then traces the other side to match his inital cuts. Interesting what you say about Mr. Cosman's technique. I'll have to look him up on line and see if I can find a pix. Thanks again! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157788 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-05 16:11:00 Subject: Re: hacksaw question GGs, I just wanted to thank everyone that replied to my hacksaw question. I never know how to respond when someone takes the time to type up a thoughtful reply, basically all I've come up with is "Uh, thanks a lot!" which is somehow lacking. Also I've tried not replying which seems so rude. So to follow Red Green's, "if you have nothing to say, stop talking", I'll say thanks a bunch and briefly mention that cutting 1/4" steel with a hacksaw is A-OK.. Adriaan Ps: Any Galoots at Liberty Tools on Saturday? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157789 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-05 18:27:14 Subject: Sandusky & the Flea GG, Having recently taken a nose dive down the wooden molding plane slope, I acquired a reprint of a 1925 Sandusky Tool Co. catalog. Gotta have some frame of reference, plus that is the most frequent maker of the planes I'm getting. Anyway it's here if you wish to see it... http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/sandusky/1925-SanduskyTool-Cat25-ne.pdf or...http://tinyurl.com/lz6o3 And since Sat at lunch I ran to the flea, for my third run at the tool collection I have been pillaging... http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/fleaMerket/flea-03042006.asp The panel raiser is a real interesting find, at least thats what I think it is... BTW if anyone can fill in the blanks I'd love to have the information. The screwdrivers just happened to arrive at my house on sat also Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157790 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 19:30:32 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Mar 5, 2006, at 6:02 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: Wendy, that is a good first try. I won't go into details, but mine were MUCH worse. > > But one thing about Frank's style that doesn't work as well for me is > that > Frank cuts the pins and tails aprox. the same size, and I like the > narrower, > Rob Cosman style of pins. I actually think this style not only looks > cleaner, > but is stronger. Alan, I won't argue the aesthetic superiority of the London style thin pins, but regarding strength, Fine Woodworking on Period Furniture has an article wherein some experts discuss how they find them broken off in antiques. To paraphrase the Dirty Dozen, "They're pretty, but they can't fight". Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157791 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-05 19:56:43 Subject: Fw: Simonds Saw Catalog Additional Scans Fellow Simondsized Galoots, Wiktor has posted additional pages of the 1923 Simonds Catalog (now 30 pages) which I scanned. Hope you guys like it. More to follow as time permits. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/simonds/1923Simonds%20Catalog-HandSaws-ne.pdf Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA > Al, > > I posted updated PDF file with scans you sent. > > Thanks, > > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Perreault [mailto:alan.perreault@v...] > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:01 PM > To: Wiktor A. Kuc > Subject: Simonds Saw Catalog Additional Scans > > Wiktor, > > I have attached more scans from the Simonds 1923 Catalog. If you could > post > them on line with the other pages I sent Previously. > > Thank You. > > Al Perreault > Wachusett Galoot > Westminster, MA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157792 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-03-05 20:31:09 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Hi, Steve and Others This chemist shudders whenever it is mentioned to dilute sulfuric acid by adding water to it. With hydrochloric (muriatic) acid diluting it that way will make the reaction noticeably warm but not dangerously so. Add water to concentrated sulfuric acid and you get a violent heat-producing reaction that is likely to splatter acid in your face. Thus arose the rule that you must always dilute acid bu adding it to a large volume of water. Like many general rules, it is not a bad idea but really required only for sulfuric acid. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157793 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-05 18:01:24 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 03:49 pm, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > Thanks Alan! Actually, I didn't plane it....must be the camera angle. But > the wood would really need a good jointing and planing if being used for a > real project. It's kindof cupped. One thing you may find, and I learned this from Rob Cosman's video, is if you plane the endgrain before you mark, it's easier to see the scribes. Starting with square stock is very helpful also. I try to leave just a bit extra and plane it down after, the last pic looked like you had done that, so you fooled me!;-) > Actually, I attempted to follow Mr. Klausz method. I was privileged to see > him making them at a free demo locally last weekend and then purchased his > video in order to review what I had seen. (He's a very nice gentleman > BTW.) I did however mark out my initial layout so it would be reasonably > even...Mr. Klausz, being an expert, just does it by eye and then traces the > other side to match his inital cuts. You don't need to be an expert to do it by eye. If you practice on a pins first dovetail as Frank does, it removes a lot of the burden from you, and lets you cut several dovetails quickly, or quicker than if you had to mark them. I think it's an excellent way to practice. > Interesting what you say about Mr. Cosman's technique. I'll have to look > him up on line and see if I can find a pix. Rob spends more time than Frank, and has a 2nd video for advanced dovetails where he shows half blind, houndstooth, miter, etc... Both are excellent tutorials to follow, IMO. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157794 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-05 18:05:10 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 04:30 pm, Steve Reynolds wrote: > Alan, I won't argue the aesthetic superiority of the London style thin > pins, but regarding strength, Fine Woodworking on Period Furniture has > an article wherein some experts discuss how they find them broken off > in antiques. To paraphrase the Dirty Dozen, "They're pretty, but they > can't fight". I had seen that article a while ago and the thing that struck me odd about it was how they were testing the joints. If I remember correctly, that had a dovetail and one side was in the vise, another extended out horizontal, and they put weight on the horizontal piece. Is this the same article? What I thought odd about that was that a dovetail joint is not designed to hold weight up like that, the joint is created to prevent the pins from pulling forward. I'd like to see a test where large pin and small pin dovetails were supported by 2 sides (like a drawer front) and weight is added to the back of the front to see how each of those pin styles performed. You don't remember which issue of FWW it was in, do you? I'd like to go back and read it. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157795 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-06 13:16:27 Subject: Australian Wood Review . Australian Wood Review. 50th Edition Collector Special. http://*www.woodreview.com.au/* Fellow Galoots , have included picture of latest A.W.R. magazine release. If interested , they subscribe worldwide. Please note , I have no financial gain from forwarding this email . Best magazine of its type world wide. Regards Stewart Simpson / Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157796 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 22:18:49 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Mar 5, 2006, at 9:05 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Sunday 05 March 2006 04:30 pm, Steve Reynolds wrote: >> Alan, I won't argue the aesthetic superiority of the London style >> thin >> pins, but regarding strength, Fine Woodworking on Period Furniture has >> an article wherein some experts discuss how they find them broken off >> in antiques. To paraphrase the Dirty Dozen, "They're pretty, but they >> can't fight". > > I had seen that article a while ago and the thing that struck me odd > about it > was how they were testing the joints. If I remember correctly, that > had a > dovetail and one side was in the vise, another extended out > horizontal, and > they put weight on the horizontal piece. > > > You don't remember which issue of FWW it was in, do you? I'd like to > go back > and read it. > > I'm referring to a different article. This one was reprinted in book form in "FWW on Period Furniture". The article is excellent and talks about slavishly following the designs of period craftsman or making modifications in the interest of sound structure. No testing was done, they interviewed people with a lot of experience with period furniture. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157797 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-05 22:11:10 Subject: Re: Sandusky & the flea GG, The afore mentioned Sandusky catalog is no longer available. I apologise, for the tease, I will try to return the information in some form...when legalities are clarified. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157798 ---- From: Benjamin Mullin Date: 2006-03-06 00:41:24 Subject: My Weekend Rust Hunt Fellow Galoots, Here follows my weekends adventure. Saturday morning I loaded up the GIT in the car and with my brother riding shotgun we set out on the road in pursuit of old tools at four reasonably close (within 30 miles of home in this non-saling season) "estate sales". Hopes were riding high. I wasn't looking for anything in particular, just more old tools. The first sale was a rummage type deal at a church. We were in and out of there in three, maybe four minutes. It appeared to be something the little old church ladies set up. Maybe two items in the bunch that could be even remotely related to tool like things. Back on the road again, still feeling like the morning is still young and old tools could abound at the next sale. As we approach the next sale we are counting down the house numbers until we reach the one that doesn't appear to be having a sale? What? Well, either I read the ad wrong or got the wrong address or they changed their minds. Point being, our four sales were down to three. Now the optimism is starting to fade. The last two on the list were at a newer development. This struck me as having less promise. I figure the houses in the old neighborhoods are more likely to have a nice old gentleman who has lived there for 30 or 40 years with his tools. I figure the newer homes are either going to be young people, or old tool kind of people that already sold their tools when they moved from the old house. But, never the less I was determined to find some old tools so we headed out that way. The first appeared to be a "collectibles" sale. Nothing doing there. So, we head to the last one. Ah ha. It appears there are a couple of old tools there. A couple of old Warranted Superior hand saws, a couple of auger bits and one Yankee hand drill. I spent all that time driving around trying to find old tools, and I finally did, and I bought nothing. I'm thinking I should have bought the hand drill, but I passed for some reason. The rest I have no regrets about. The money burning a hole in my pocket prevented me from heading straight home, so I decided to swing by an antique store I had not yet visited. There I picked up a nice clean Disston No. 8 for $9. Maybe not a gloatable $2, but it helped satisfy my old tool craving for the weekend. Haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet, but that'll be a project for some night this week. On the way home I just had to stop in at another shop I had been to before that seemed to only contain broken, incomplete, extremely overpriced old tools. The only item that looked at all tempting was a pretty darn clean and complete Miller Falls #14. At $40, I wasn't prepared to spend my money on it without checking first. The bay shows completed auctions for about $15 to $25 so it doesn't look necessarily worth the $40. Anyone care to convince me otherwise? I'm no collector, just trying to "collect" some usable tools. It appeared to be about the same size as my Bailey #5 so it doesn't seem like it would do anything to enhance my user set. This concludes my weekend rust hunting saga. Happy old tooling, Ben Mullin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157799 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-03-06 09:58:23 Subject: Flobbling around - use negative rake Scott said. . about a Yorkshire parson.. - errm parser. . > Just flobbles around in the hole until it's done? Wish I had a > slightly closer look at the business end of the cutter So for the benefit of anyone else, (like Mike ) who may be interested in making one of these, here's a response I had from Ian Wright. (publisher of the info, Paddy ) answering my query about the cutter configuration. "The inner edges are usually rounded because there are situations where the parser is used in tight corners or for long narrow work where the legs actually cross over - difficult to describe succinctly, but let us consider inlaying a nameplate 1" long by 3/16" wide. The parser will have the ends of the legs filed to maybe 5/32" wide from the cutting edge to the rounded back by 3.32" thick. So, when it is rotated within the template, there will be a point at the centre where the legs have to be beside each other before they pass each other and spring apart again. If the back edge were sharp cornered, they could cut where they shouldn't. In practice, however, the legs are never left to spring apart on their own but the legs are loosely held by the hand, controlling the amount they spring open and guiding them around within the template to ensure that every bit is cut to the same depth and all the corners are cleaned out. The actual cutting edges, both on the sides and ends of the tips, are usually a bit less than 90 degrees. This is determined by the shape of the shield or whatever which is being cut as the angle needs to be a little less than the sharpest angle within the template. Their action is simply one of scraping with negative rake but is nevertheless quite efficient. It is also important that the 'wings' at the ends of the legs which govern the depth of cut be somewhat more than half the maximum width of the shield in width, otherwise, when the parser is being guided round, the wing could slip inside the template and make too deep a cut. The old-time cutlers I have watched using this tool would usually set up the knife scale, inlay and set even the most complicated shield in just 15 - 20 seconds - try setting a cnc machine up to do the same job!!!! If you make a parser, I would be very interested to see the results and hear your comments on its use." If we get any of these working on the list, then maybe we could get some info together for him? Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157800 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-06 10:23:31 Subject: Re: Re: Parsers??? wayne.a.anderson@a... wrote: > Genius. Yup...I'll be making one too. Thanks. -Wayne Anderson I'll bet yours is fancy! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157801 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-06 10:34:54 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes Nichael Cramer wrote: > buz.buskirk@e... wrote: > > > Also, marking the thickness in this manner --as opposed to, say, along the > edge with a marking-gauge as you would usually do if you were working at > your bench-- > has the advantage that you don't need to continually lift the board to > "see how close > you are". (That is, it provides a way of checking your work from the > top surface, in place.) Indeed. I remember an analogous tip - having marked a board for thickness with a marking gauge, use a handy size plane (#3 or #4) set moderately rank, and remove a chamfer around the perimeter of the board (almost) to the marked line. The "depth" is now readable looking down on to the board, providing similar benefits to the sash rebate approach being discussed. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157802 ---- From: "Caron, Gary J \(PA83\)" Date: 2006-03-06 06:14:46 Subject: Chisel Maker Galoots, I picked up a corner chisel at a local auction recently and was wondering if someone out there might be familiar with the maker mark. There are an unknown number of letters missing before the 'CE'. http://userweb.suscom.net/~caronfamily/Mark.jpg Thanks, Gary Caron York, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157803 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-06 09:08:20 Subject: Re: Chisel Maker Gary is looking for a Youngstown corner chisel maker with the name ending in "CE"-- A quick run through the DAT's geographical index for Ohio only turns up six names ending in CE (though I went crosseyed about halfway through and may have missed one). Of the six, only two are listed as edge tool makers--Daggett & Pierce, of Cincinnati (c. 1830) and Yeaman & Lawrence, of Clyde (1870-71). I didn't spot a single Youngstown location among the hundreds of names listed, either--what did they do with all that steel? Sorry to be of so little help--maybe the MWTCA folks could help out. John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY, whose father spent a few years of his early boyhood in Youngstown nearly a century ago. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157804 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-06 10:26:56 Subject: Norris adjuster info? Gentle Galoots, Preface: Please don't reply if your intent is to convince me that I don't need a Norris adjuster. I've made up my mind that I want to make one regardless of whether or not I *need* it. It looks like a fun challenge to attempt to make my own. I also won't be needing advice like "you can't make that without an engine lathe!" Well guess what! I've got an entire machine shop at my disposal (during my lunch break!) So naysayers please hold your tongues. Thank you. There, now that's out of the way, does anybody have any info and or specs on the pre-war Norris adjusters? The compound screw type that's a thread-within-a-thread deal? Can anybody give me thread size and pitch for both threads? I found Jim Yehle's drawings of Kingshott's version, but his prints don't have this info. Anybody have an original or repro adjuster I could briefly borrow to measure (I know that's asking a lot!) If so I could make measured drawings to post on Wiktor's site. I see that Ray Iles, Holtey and Bristol Design all make a fairly faithful version of the pre-war adjuster. Anyone know of any others? In the end I can always make the adjuster without this information, but using the original Norris design as a benchmark would be neat. -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157805 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-06 10:52:05 Subject: Graver GGs, This talk of gravers reminded me of some that I had gotten years ago in a lot at an an auction. Typically, I have hung on to them, but I have no use for them, and if any of you do, I would be happy to send them to you. The picture is: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3605 Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157806 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-06 08:25:08 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. As sent 1/18/06 Alan DuBoff wrote: > >I'd like to see a test where large pin and small pin dovetails were supported >by 2 sides (like a drawer front) and weight is added to the back of the front >to see how each of those pin styles performed. > > Summarizing quickly the article from FWW April 2001 pg 74 - 79 Issue 148 # is x 1000lb load where joint failed Pull Load as in opening a drawing Dovetails Narrow Pin Low Angle 7° 1.75 Standard Pin High ANgle 14° 1.6 Standard Pin Low Angle 7° 1.5 Wide Pin Low Angle 7° 1.4 -- Kirk Eppler in SuddenlySunny Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157807 ---- From: Louis Michaud Date: 2006-03-06 11:26:18 Subject: Re: Re: Parsers??? A little more information: http://www.ilovewood.com/ In "Alburnam's Arhives" under "Unsual Tools". He calls it a bifurcated bit. Lots of great galoot stuff in these archives ! Best, Louis Michaud Rimouski, Quebec ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157808 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-06 10:13:51 Subject: Re: Re: Sandusky & the flea On 5 Mar 2006 at 22:11, roygriggs@v... wrote: > The afore mentioned Sandusky catalog is no longer available. I > apologise, for the tease, I will try to return the information in > some form...when legalities are clarified. Legalities aside, I'd like to point out something that probably has more to do with morality here. Martyl Pollak is a woman who has done the oldtools community great service by keeping this information available to all. Some of us are pretty dependent on books like AWP4, and anything we can do to help her stay in business helps us all. Taking a book that she sells and posting its contents on the internet is taking food off her table. Even if it was legal, it would be a pretty shameful thing to do. Astragal Press is our friend, and we don't steal from our friends. If one owns a catalog that is not available anywhere else and there is no real interest in reproducing it, that I'm all for posting it for all to see. Those of us who have been hanging around the Internet since before it was called that (and it was non-commercial) have a great appreciation of its role in providing free access to information not available elsewhere. That's what it's for. But if this same information is readily available to anyone simply by buying the book, then there is no problem with access. Anyone can send a check to Astragal Press and obtain the information. I realize there are some people who are on limited budgets, but "I can't afford it" is not justification for stealing a book any more than for stealing a car. If you want there to be an AWP5 some day, let's make sure we don't drive Mrs. Pollak out of business. No offense intended to Roy - it was just a bad idea. But the right solution here is to remind everyone that this book is available and is reasonably priced. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157809 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-06 12:26:52 Subject: UK toolmaking Hello All, I have created a new section on www.wkFineTools.com - Toolmaking in UK. Few weeks ago I begun some talk with Brian Read, the Editor of TATHS Newsletter. He agreed for me to use some of the articles printed in TATHS Newsletters and post them on my website. I posted few already as well as some other material that I have in my possession. I hope to grow this section to a meaningful size. If any of you is interested in submitting article on English Tools or any other, relevant subject - YOU ARE WELCOME! I would be glad to work with you to help in creating quality articles. Also, please keep in mind that www.OldToolsShop.com is alive only if you guys submit somethin' - article, comment, what to share post to the List and website. Please copy me on this kind of posts, so I know what you want. I can't go through all emails to pick something for website. There is not enough time in a day for me to do that. Thanks much, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157810 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-06 13:41:44 Subject: New bronze in the shop... Gentle Galoots, about 6 months ago, I stumbled across a high gizmosity piece of cast iron, a Barnes Velocipede #2 scroll saw and have been jazzed about it ever since. This tool is great fun and fits both in the shop and with the large amount of toy making I seem to gravitate towards, though I have done a few Victorian style brackets on it as well. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2341 having spent some time internet researching this saw I found catalog images showing a Boring Attachment, kind of a cantelevered drilling arm that runs off a groove on the flywheel pulley, tensioning the belt when pulled down towards the table and lose in the upright position. I also found a company in Missouri that makes a cast alumimum reproduciton of the Velocipede as well as a cast bronze reproduction of the Boring Attachment. So, with a little hoarded holiday bonus fundage, my first bronze shop fixture made its way to the coast of Northern California. Here it is, installed, belt tensioned and ready to to. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3606 This saw must have had an original Boring Attachment on it at one point, the bolt in the back of the casting that supports the saw arms was waiting for the new bronze version, so this really was a bolt on upgrade. Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a few trys to scarf it, melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them together, then trim the glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the pulleys. The bright orange is a little distracting. Also my first tryout had the bit spinning backwards, so I looped the belt around so forward pedalling equals drilling. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3607 Here's the view from sitting in the tractor seat on the saw, looks like the original arm was a bit longer, judging from the hole in the table top. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3608 I always thought my first bronze purchase would be from Lie Neilson's, but this will do. Now I'm considering some sort of Dutchman or Viking in the saw table to keep from constantly redrilling it. Not that I'm complaining, but being able to bore holes for, theoreticaly, interior scroll work, while not having to get out of the seat seems like a good idea, but you'd have to get off the seat anyway to retension the blade, the turnbuckle is between the back ends of the saw arms, maybe there were quick release blade holders that I have yet to find out about. Michael-San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157811 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-06 15:22:05 Subject: Re: Norris adjuster info? >Andy wants to make a pre-war Norris adjuster< I hope you get the info you are looing for. When you do make the adjuster please post pictures and a full description. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:26 AM Subject: [OldTools] Norris adjuster info? > Gentle Galoots, > > Preface: > > Please don't reply if your intent is to convince me that I don't need a > Norris adjuster. I've made up my mind that I want to make one > regardless of whether or not I *need* it. It looks like a fun challenge > to attempt to make my own. I also won't be needing advice like "you > can't make that without an engine lathe!" Well guess what! I've got an > entire machine shop at my disposal (during my lunch break!) So > naysayers please hold your tongues. Thank you. > > There, now that's out of the way, does anybody have any info and or > specs on the pre-war Norris adjusters? The compound screw type that's a > thread-within-a-thread deal? Can anybody give me thread size and pitch > for both threads? I found Jim Yehle's drawings of Kingshott's version, > but his prints don't have this info. > > Anybody have an original or repro adjuster I could briefly borrow to > measure (I know that's asking a lot!) If so I could make measured > drawings to post on Wiktor's site. > > I see that Ray Iles, Holtey and Bristol Design all make a fairly > faithful version of the pre-war adjuster. Anyone know of any others? > > In the end I can always make the adjuster without this information, but > using the original Norris design as a benchmark would be neat. > > -Andy > > ----------------------------------------- > This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or > entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please > do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to > others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, > and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The > Timken Corporation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157812 ---- From: bouland@g... Date: 0000-00-00 00:00:00 Subject: backsaw spine adjust. ? I have an old Beardshaw brass backed saw in need of restoration. The spine has been completely set as far down upon the blade as it possibly can. Blade is straight and no need to adjust as far as I can tell but was curious if having the spine set in this manner was of any concern. Blade is rusty and dull and am contemplating how to go about cleaning it. Was curious if there were any point to adjusting/removing the spine before doing so. Any thoughts? I've seen previous posts relating to how to go about adjusting, just didn't know if there were really any point if blade was not indicating the need. Thanks, Andrew B. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157813 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-06 15:30:28 Subject: Re: Graver It's gone to Keith. He was the first to respond. Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157814 ---- From: "Joe Parker" Date: 2006-03-06 12:59:57 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Thomas - > Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? It doesn't. It is an equal opportunity eater. > Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? It does, but the result is still sharp. You can easily convince yourself safely with pencil and paper (no acid required). Draw a well-rounded tooth about 2 inches (5.08 cm, Jeff) wide and 2 inches tall. Then draw a line inside removing, uniformly, 1/4" (0.635 cm, Jeff). This will be a sharper, albeit smaller, tooth. If this is not scary sharp enough for you, do it again. In effect the acid is reducing the radius of the rounded tooth top by the amount of the etch, quickly getting to "zero". Joe Parker Los Gatos, CA Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157815 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-06 14:10:15 Subject: Plow plane rehab Greetings All, I'm rehabilitating my first wooden plow plane. It's an Ohio Tool Company #101 (I think). I'm now working on the worst damage. It seems that at some point the fence got wet and water seeped in behind the boxing. This caused the strip of boxing to bow which split open one corner of the fence into which the boxing was dovetailed. I was able to drive the boxing out of the fence without much trouble. I glued the split portion of the fence back together so it is ready to have the boxing driven back in again, or so it seems to me. But I need to straighten the strip of boxing first. What is the best way to do that? I am thinking of boiling it for half an hour or so (as it is only about a quarter of an inch thick) until it is flexible enough to straightened. I would like to then just drive it back into the fence while it is hot but I am guessing it will be too swollen to fit. If so, I guess I will just clamp it and wait for it to dry. Any ideas? Thanks! Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157816 ---- From: "Joe Parker" Date: 2006-03-06 13:41:17 Subject: Re: New bronze in the shop... Nick - > Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them together, then trim the > glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the pulleys. The bright > orange is a little distracting. If it gets too distracting, sewing machine belts tend to be the wrong size, but McMaster-Carr sells round leather belting by the foot. Joe Parker Los Gatos, CA ____________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157817 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-06 16:44:38 Subject: Backsaw Toady I decided to sharpen the backsaw I got from Grandpa. It needed it badly. It is now sharp and ready to go. Easier than I thought it would be. I went to see my parents new vacation home yesterday. The old owners left this enourmous pile of wood. I got some stuff but the car was too full of wedding junk to get more. Most of it was little short pieces too. Remember when mixing acid and water add Acid to the water like a good chemist otter. Some sill thing a salesmen told m years ago but It works. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157818 ---- From: "Ed in Ottawa" Date: 2006-03-06 15:41:57 Subject: Re: Graver Greetings to the porch! For the more curious, these are the cutting heads used in an electron powered rotary engraving / lettering machine, such as the type you find at the local locksmith or jeweller. The machine engraves characters in metal or plastic, and the use of a pantographic arm allows the creation of various font sizes of the character templates used. Some of you may have had the "lamacoid" plastic versions on your office doors on on your desk, with the coloured foreground and white lettering that appears after removal of the coloured surface layer. Regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157819 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-06 14:46:12 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Wendy cuts her first set of hand dovetails Congrats - it is a slippey slope. Several Galoots discuss the Klauz vs. Cosman techniques for dovetails Personally I'm a large fan on Ian Kirby's method which relies more on paring than chopping but whatever works for you. Bill suggests better wood - mahogany or poplar I wholeheartedly agree. After struggling with pine I bought about 3BF of Mahogany and made about 10 sets of dovetails. World of difference as the wood works so well with handtools you can focus more on your technique Joel McCarty ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157820 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-06 18:39:05 Subject: chemical sayings Galoots, "Little Willie was a chemist. Little Willie is no more. What he thought was H2O (dihydrogen oxide) was really H2SO4" (sulfuric acid) Acid in water: do what you oughter. Water in acid: is a bad habit. (sort of rhymes) Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157821 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-07 09:21:04 Subject: Re: First Semi Successful Dovetails Very good try Wendy. My first attempt was made a little easier because I had seen some-one "paring out" the pin and tail floors using this method: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3609 My drawing shows a square piece of scrap clamped along the floor line of the pins. This is used as a vertical guide against which to run the back of the chisel, keeping the cut vertical and the floors all at the same level. You may also find this link to Jeff Gorman's Dovetailing page usefull: http://www.amgron.clara.net/dovetails/tipsinpics/hintsntips.htm I have learned that softer woods require far sharper chisels. My boards cupped too, but I fixed that by wetting them on the concave side and clamping them wet face to wet face for a short while prior to glue up. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157822 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-06 17:58:06 Subject: RE: Chris Pye Tutorials GGs, Paul writes: >standing in my field--as in by myself? Surely there must be some >Galoots out >there who go for breadth of knowledge rather than depth and perfection. Long version only: I'm with you Paul, specialisation is for insects :> And perfection is the voice of the oppressor. Let me see, I've made some knives, done some jewelry, I've built a shaving horse, a spring lathe, several forges, I've done blacksmithing, woodwork, I'm making an infill plane right now, I've tried engraving and etching, gas welding and cutting and sculpturing, carving, fretsawing and inlaying, both metal and wood, I'm interested in psychology, dreams and symbolism and archetypes, books, books, books, sandcasting and working with clay, leather and horn, heck I've even weaved and knitted! The best part is not whether I'm good at any of these or got paid enough or at all, it's that I had a blast doing it. This is not meant to indicate how great I am, it's to say how great we all are. They say Goethe was the last man who knew everything and I think that's a shame. Not that I'm against specialisation per se, but I think many of us are discouraged from trying lots of things. They tell us that somehow we are not smart enough, that we should leave it to others. Or else we need to spend a fortune. One answer to all this nay-saying advice is the Zen saying "not always so" and I use it lots of times when I feel hemmed in by popular belief. Sometimes all you need is a big heart. I love those stories that you hear like the guy that would play you a game of eight-ball with a mop and clean out your wallet. Or that guy that flew over L.A. International in his lawn chair tied to weather balloons. When asked why he did it, his reply was "Well, you can't just sit around.." If you're still reading, here's a quote from Benjamin Hoff: "To use our minds in the way we normally do, is about as inefficient and inappropriate as using a magic sword to open a can of beans". And now I'll climb off my box.. Oh, OT content: magic sword Adriaan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157823 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-06 21:12:02 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. > Congrats - it is a slippey slope. > Thanks Joel! I'll have to look up the Kirby method then. Sounds like there are many ways to accomplish the task..the key is seeing which works best for you. Interesting comment about the wood. A co-worker who does woodworking suggested the same thing. He actually suggested popler since it's not pricy. Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157824 ---- From: Jim Erdman Date: 2006-03-06 19:43:46 Subject: Re: New bronze in the shop... --- nicknaylo@a... wrote: Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a > few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them > together, then trim the > glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the > pulleys. The bright > orange is a little distracting. A "proper" style leather belt would require you to obtain the right tools for trimming and installing it, such as a Scholhorn/Sargent nifty little plier-like device that trims the end of a round leather belt and punches a hole for the little wire clip that splices the ends together, and is made in different sizes for different belt diameters. But maybe you don't "need" any more tools?? Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157825 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-06 19:44:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Wendy--- It may not be of any interest to you, but the dovetail joint works very well in plywood and (with good quality ply) it looks cool. I work with ply and construction timbers for a living and use handtools on this kinda junk all the time---I do believe that plywood dulls saws faster than the regular solid wood does, but not so very much faster. Chisels and planes are made of much sterner stuff (which is why you can't file their cutting edges, as you do with saws) and plywood hurts them not at all. You'll find a dovetail method that suits you, if you cut a bunch of dovetails, and you'll be pleasantly surprised to discover how easy it is to do, especially so if you aren't working with expensive and can't-make-a-mistake kinds of wood. Poplar is good stuff, in my experience---very soft, yes, but not as soft as cardboard---and cardboard lasts a long time---everything made from wood, even paper, does that. welcome to the Porch, and best to you in your endeavour; gAM in Seattle --- Wendy Sarrett wrote: > > > Congrats - it is a slippey slope. > > > Thanks Joel! > > I'll have to look up the Kirby method then. Sounds like there are > many ways > to accomplish the task..the key is seeing which works best for you. > > Interesting comment about the wood. A co-worker who does > woodworking > suggested the same thing. He actually suggested popler since it's > not pricy. > > Wendy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. Robert A Heinlein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157826 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-06 21:51:05 Subject: RE: Chris Pye Tutorials Adriaan and Galoots--Ah, my kingdom for a hard-nosed generalist! I really appreciate your perspective. Like you, if it catches my attention then it is fair game for follow-up investigation, reading and implementation. When you consider how short our time here is, it seems a shame not to take in as many experiences as you desire. My house may collapse under the weight of the books on multiple topics, my shop is so crowded that I have to wear a hardhat and everywhere is something that is of interest. I had a computer techie in today and planes kept falling on the Ethernet box every time he moved something. I think I paid for half his time as he explored wood planes, hanging maps and books. He had such a good time, I hated to see him go! He left with information for his father-in-law on outboard bowl turning as well. I spent much of my early life doing what you mention---not doing something because somebody else could do it better. What silliness! We have created a culture where educated folks know more and more about less and less. I crave to know more about more and more things. I just finished the book on Live Oaking that was recommended by someone on the list. I may stay out of the swamp--but only for now! Been working on my embroidery--and I am not kidding. Channel that testosterone! Now, I have to say I think you have surpassed my generalist tendencies and my hat is off to you. May you continue on the path you have chosen. Be careful with that Infill project, it may be the ultimate slippery slope to normalcy. Sort of like living in a town named Normal! I never want to deprecate the specialists. They have much to teach us and they can become true repositories of living historical techniques. But, we all have a unique perspective on how we learn, what we learn and even why we learn. There is a lot of room in the old tool world for diversity. I have always liked the Kipling story about the 9 blind men of Hindustan who all describe the elephant by describing that part to which they have latched on. The old tool world is sort of like that. We can latch on to one part or we can embrace the whole d(*n elephant of it--if we want. I was on my soapbox, but I put my foot through it. They just don't make soapboxes like they used to when I was young. Paul in Normal > > I'm with you Paul, specialisation is for insects :> > And perfection is the > voice of the oppressor. > > If you're still reading, here's a quote from Benjamin > Hoff: "To use our minds > in the way we normally do, is about as inefficient and > inappropriate as using > a magic sword to open a can of beans". > > And now I'll climb off my box.. > > Oh, OT content: magic sword > > Adriaan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157827 ---- From: buz.buskirk@e... Date: 2006-03-06 23:04:00 Subject: Free to a good home... I have one copy each of M.J. Donnelly's Catatlogue of Antique Tools, 2000 edition M.J. Donnelly's Catatlogue of Antique Tools, 2002 edition Don't know how I ended up with extras. Ping me off-list with an address. -- Buz Buskirk Richmond, Kentucky ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157828 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-07 15:15:55 Subject: Re: Chris Pye Tutorials Paul, I say in all sincerity, you are not alone!!! Peter B, Australia paul schobernd wrote: >My house may collapse under the weight of the books on multiple topics, my >shop is so crowded that I have to wear a hardhat and everywhere is something >that is of interest........... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157829 ---- From: "Wesley G." Date: 2006-03-06 22:43:29 Subject: Re: New bronze in the shop... Michael, I think Slav has a supply of the real leather stuff that would work for your gizmo. (If you get tired of the orange...) At least there's less of a chance of your being shot by Quail hunters. Cheers, Wes On Mar 6, 2006, at 12:41 PM, nicknaylo@a... wrote: > Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them together, then trim > the glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the pulleys. The > bright orange is a little distracting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157830 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-06 22:49:04 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Monday 06 March 2006 02:46 pm, Joel Mccarty wrote: > Personally I'm a large fan on Ian Kirby's method which > relies more on paring than chopping interested I'll post a longer description> but > whatever works for you. That style works ok also. For folks that are curious about that style, George Huron has a video on the web that shows similar, paring out the waste. George cuts the bulk of the waste out with a coping saw. (WARNING: bandwidth can be challenging on this server, best to download first) http://www.springharvestfww.com/images/dovetail.mpg Spring Harvest is George's school, and he also writes in FWW (some of you might recognize his name) and Woodcraft's ma. > I wholeheartedly agree. After struggling with pine I > bought about 3BF of Mahogany and made about 10 sets of > dovetails. World of difference as the wood works so > well with handtools you can focus more on your > technique I used to practice with pine, as I had/have a bunch of 1x6 t&g scraps from a project I did. What I found is that if you have sharp chisels, it not bad wood to work with. Frank Klausz uses 1/2" pine for the sides. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157831 ---- From: "travis anderson-bond" Date: 2006-03-07 18:19:06 Subject: Re: froe handling Using my froe more is on my list of things to do, so I speak from limited experience, but... In hindsight, I wish I had (1) made my handle longer [more leverage], and (2) mounted it upside down. You can always trim the handle to length if you find it's too long, and gets in the way; more awkward to lengthen it. And if you have it hanging down, you can brace your hand against the log and pull directly away, rather than having the froe handle extend like a bayonet out the end of the log, and trying to find a way to "break it over your knee" at the point of contact. Again, in my limited experience... --Travis (in mildly warm, but rather muggy, Brisbane, Australia) On 3/4/06, Bill Kasper wrote: > i just received a fantastic blacksmith-made froe from bruce z., and i > have a question about handling it. > > rather than being conical (wide on the sharp blade side) so it can be > slid on and off of a handle, it's actually waisted, with the waist > about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom (sharp blade side), flaring > less on the bottom 1/3 than on the top. > > should i just carve the handle so it slip fits the size of the waist, > flaring to accept the bottom 1/3 so it doesn't slip off? or make a > "permanent" handle? and how long? i have a nice hunk of ash from > roger van maren (thanks to both roger and bruce!!) i thought to use, > it's about 16" long. otherwise i have a nice length of persimmon > branch that might work... > > best, > bill > felton, ca > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157832 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-07 07:22:20 Subject: Re: froe handling > Using my froe more is on my list of things to do, so I speak from > limited experience, but... Me too. > And if you have it hanging down, you can brace your hand against the > log and pull directly away, rather than having the froe handle extend > like a bayonet out the end of the log, and trying to find a way to > "break it over your knee" at the point of contact. I have a Woodcraft froe; it seems OK, and it's opened a world of firewood-for-project-use that wasn't there before. The handle sticks up, and I smack it into the work until the blade is well-seated. There's a motion where you push the top of the workpiece away from you while pulling sharply on the handle that seems to work well. If it doesn't split cleanly, smack it in a little deeper and try again. I've run into two problems: twisted grain (like elm) and knotty areas. I've been unsuccessful with either, and at that point, if I have to work with that particular piece of wood, I switch to a ripsaw if I need both sides, or a smoothing hatchet if I just need one side. I haven't had much luck splitting thin pieces off the outside, but heck, that's what the hatchet is for anyway. YMMV, Gary K Close to Buffalo NY. USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157833 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-07 06:52:28 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Wendy, As if you already didn't have enough to read/research... This link is to a list of links having specifically to do with laying out and cutting dovetails. http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=70 If you check out the rest of the site, you will find over 1000 links to hand tools related websites, articles and posts. Happy surfing. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157834 ---- From: "Bretton Wade" Date: 2006-03-07 08:09:56 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they never say exactly where. PatinaTools.org reports this: "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that I couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there contact info? How about an address? I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to call the local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he has better things to do than answer "where" questions repeatedly when he's trying to prepare for a meet. And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right coast. I guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea markets to bother getting together. OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. They're sitting on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those stuffy cardboard boxes... -- Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157835 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-07 08:19:13 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On 06 Mar, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Joel Mccarty wrote: > > Wendy cuts her first set of hand dovetails > > Personally I'm a large fan on Ian Kirby's method which > relies more on paring than chopping interested I'll post a longer description> but > whatever works for you. > Hello all - I'm a big fan of Mr. Kirby's method and his little book, The Complete Dovetail. It is clear and comprehensive and readily available through the usual online resources for about ten bucks. Thank you. Ian. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157836 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-03-07 07:22:40 Subject: RE: New bronze in the shop... -- or -- You could just contact Keith De'Grau: http://www.handamerican.com/belt.html Reasonable prices, great quality and service, IME. Going back to a couple of other reasonably recent threads, Keith also has a good selection of honing compounds for use with all the leather products he makes. When the compounds are applied to a belt, driven in whatever way one prefers, the result is an incredibly effective hone. (Or you can get a belt made of Keith's specially treated honing leather and use it without a compound.) Depending on where/how the edge makes contact with the belt, you get either a flat or rounded alternative to the hard felt wheels discussed at some length a few months ago. Chuck Myers, in a hermetically sealed environment in Nashville --- nicknaylo@a... wrote: Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a > few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them > together, then trim the > glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the > pulleys. The bright > orange is a little distracting. A "proper" style leather belt would require you to obtain the right tools for trimming and installing it, such as a Scholhorn/Sargent nifty little plier-like device that trims the end of a round leather belt and punches a hole for the little wire clip that splices the ends together, and is made in different sizes for different belt diameters. But maybe you don't "need" any more tools?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157837 ---- From: Bill Ghio Date: 2006-03-07 08:25:36 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 From the PATINA newsletter: "... 10211 Lewis Drive, Damascus, MD. Lewis drive is located off Route 27 (Ridge road) which connects directly to with I-270 (north and south) and I-70 (east and west)." On Tuesday, March 7, 2006, at 08:09 AM, Bretton Wade wrote: > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they > never say exactly where. > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the > Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 > lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from > around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association > Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that I couldn't > miss the event if I tried? Is there contact info? How about an > address? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157838 ---- From: Bill Webber Date: 2006-03-07 08:38:11 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Bretton, Put "Lewis Dr, Damascus, MD 20872" into: http://maps.google.com/ Should get you all you need. Lewis Dr is a small street. There will be 100 cars around the fire house and hall... you won't miss it. Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/wWebber/ Bretton Wade wrote: > >PatinaTools.org reports this: > >"The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the >Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 >lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from >around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." > >But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association >Activity Center is. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157839 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-07 08:52:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. aland@s... writes: George cuts the bulk of the waste out with a coping saw. John notes: Rob Cosman also uses a coping saw to remove the bulk of the waste. His 2 DVDs on cutting dovetails are clear and have been very helpful to me. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157840 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 07:50:44 Subject: RE: Events - was PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus We can try to post info on www.OldToolsShop.com. If there is enough commitment from the List members To send relevant information, I will create Events section and post there everything I receive from the list members. Please use first post as a format to send your info. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Bretton Wade > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:10 AM > To: lunytools@a... > Cc: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > Maryland March 11 > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the > web, they never say exactly where. > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March > 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association > Activity Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at > auction and antique tool dealers from around the USA will > display tools and related merchandise..." > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire > Association Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small > place that I couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there > contact info? How about an address? > > I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to > call the local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he > has better things to do than answer "where" questions > repeatedly when he's trying to prepare for a meet. > > And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. > There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right > coast. I guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea > markets to bother getting together. > > OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the > basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. They're > sitting on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those > stuffy cardboard boxes... > > -- > Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157841 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-07 09:01:05 Subject: Re: RE: Events - was PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Wiktor, appreciate the offer, but we've already got a good start on this, with tools in place and self posting with workflow enabled. Folks can post events into the queue or send event info to be posted. No manual web pages to code... What you won't find there is in depth tutorials! You've got that covered in spades and gettin' better every day!! See the Galoot Events on galootcentral.com cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin On 3/7/06, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > We can try to post info on www.OldToolsShop.com. > > If there is enough commitment from the List members > To send relevant information, I will create Events section > and post there everything I receive from the list members. > > Please use first post as a format to send your info. > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > > Bretton Wade > > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:10 AM > > To: lunytools@a... > > Cc: oldtools@r... > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > > Maryland March 11 > > > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the > > web, they never say exactly where. > > > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March > > 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association > > Activity Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at > > auction and antique tool dealers from around the USA will > > display tools and related merchandise..." > > > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire > > Association Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small > > place that I couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there > > contact info? How about an address? > > > > I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to > > call the local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he > > has better things to do than answer "where" questions > > repeatedly when he's trying to prepare for a meet. > > > > And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. > > There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right > > coast. I guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea > > markets to bother getting together. > > > > OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the > > basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. They're > > sitting on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those > > stuffy cardboard boxes... > > > > -- > > Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > > history, usage, value, location, availability, > > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > > especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157842 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 08:20:25 Subject: RE: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 OK... Here is the start for Event Calendar. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zMisc/calendar.asp Another way to do it is: Can someone volunteer to be a central point for gathering info? We can all submit calendars to that person. The Calendar Editor will edit, check and format information and send it all to me. Maybe alternate Editor as well? Please let me know... Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Bill Ghio > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:26 AM > To: Bretton_Wade@a... > Cc: oldtools@r...; lunytools@a... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > Maryland March 11 > > From the PATINA newsletter: "... 10211 Lewis Drive, > Damascus, MD. Lewis drive is located off Route 27 (Ridge > road) which connects directly to with I-270 (north and south) > and I-70 (east and west)." > > On Tuesday, March 7, 2006, at 08:09 AM, Bretton Wade wrote: > > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the > web, they > > never say exactly where. > > > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on > March 11 at the > > Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity > Center. Over 600 > > lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool > dealers from > > around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." > > > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association > > Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that > I couldn't > > miss the event if I tried? Is there contact info? How about an > > address? > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157843 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 08:31:19 Subject: RE: RE: Events - was PATINA Antique Tool Show We....? Hm... Dividing attention of the group to more sites, different centers of information,... This is really good approach! Congratulation Jim - Good thinking. How about working together on something? Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim Esten > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:01 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] RE:Events - was PATINA Antique Tool > Show DamascusMaryland March 11 > > Wiktor, appreciate the offer, but we've already got a good > start on this, with tools in place and self posting with > workflow enabled. > Folks can post events into the queue or send event info to be posted. > No manual web pages to code... > > What you won't find there is in depth tutorials! You've got > that covered in spades and gettin' better every day!! > > See the Galoot Events on galootcentral.com > > cheers all, > > Jim E #2 in Wisconsin > > On 3/7/06, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > > > We can try to post info on www.OldToolsShop.com. > > > > If there is enough commitment from the List members To send > relevant > > information, I will create Events section and post there > everything I > > receive from the list members. > > > > Please use first post as a format to send your info. > > > > Wiktor A. Kuc > > Albuquerque, NM > > 505-323-8482 > > www.OldToolsShop.com > > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > > > Bretton Wade > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:10 AM > > > To: lunytools@a... > > > Cc: oldtools@r... > > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > Maryland > > > March 11 > > > > > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, > > > they never say exactly where. > > > > > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > > > > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March > > > 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity > > > Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at auction and > > > antique tool dealers from around the USA will display tools and > > > related merchandise..." > > > > > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association > > > Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that I > > > couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there contact > info? How about > > > an address? > > > > > > I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to > call the > > > local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he has > better things > > > to do than answer "where" questions repeatedly when he's > trying to > > > prepare for a meet. > > > > > > And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. > > > There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right coast. I > > > guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea markets to bother > > > getting together. > > > > > > OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the > > > basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. > They're sitting > > > on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those > stuffy cardboard > > > boxes... > > > > > > -- > > > Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---------- > > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > > > usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and > > > restoration of traditional handtools, especially > woodworking tools. > > > > > > To read the FAQ: > > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > > > OldTools archive: > > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > > > OldTools@r... > > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of > hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157844 ---- From: "Kaye, Danny" Date: 2006-03-07 16:11:58 Subject: RE: Graver a graver is also the hand held tool used with a watchmakers lathe Danny Kaye Course Leader Multimedia 0115 848 2231 07968 113686 ________________________________ From: oldtools-bounces@r... on behalf of Ed in Ottawa Sent: Mon 06/03/2006 20:41 To: Jack Kamishlian; oldtools Subject: Re: [OldTools] Graver Greetings to the porch! For the more curious, these are the cutting heads used in an electron powered rotary engraving / lettering machine, such as the type you find at the local locksmith or jeweller. The machine engraves characters in metal or plastic, and the use of a pantographic arm allows the creation of various font sizes of the character templates used. Some of you may have had the "lamacoid" plastic versions on your office doors on on your desk, with the coloured foreground and white lettering that appears after removal of the coloured surface layer. Regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157845 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-07 11:25:33 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland At 08:09 AM 3/7/2006, Bretton Wade wrote: >I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they >never say exactly where. > >PatinaTools.org reports this: > >"The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the >Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 >lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from >around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." I had posted this before back in Feb but.......... Directions to the show. http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm The quick version. Get off of I-70 at the Damascus Exit and head south towards Damascus. Right when you get into town there will be a stop light with a McDonald's on the far left corner. Turn right and then turn right again (about 50 ft). I want to say it's about 3/4's of a mile or so, but I never clocked it. You can't miss it. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157846 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-07 11:33:16 Subject: Great old tool link Esteemed Galoots, In searching for information on the different configurations of the famed Norris adjuster I've stumbled across a website that is new to me and that I've not seen mention of anyplace else. www.handplane.com has some excellent articles, measured drawings, and catalogue scans. It's a little commercial looking, but if you stick to the navigation bar on the left side you can find some great stuff. There's quite a bit of good info on infills here, including scans of the 1914 and 1928 Norris catalogues. I've no affiliation with the website etc. etc. -Andy Windsor, VT ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157847 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-03-07 11:53:04 Subject: RE: Graver And for those who are "letter carving challenged" they can also be used on wood. I used mine to make a number of different presentation plaques for Cub Scouts, though it takes a fairly large machine to be able to handle wood of any size. Walnut worked pretty well. But since we're a hand tool group we should just learn to carve them by hand. How much time could that take, after all? (both the learning and execution B^)) Jim Foster Minnesota PS: These have nothing in common with either hand gravers, gravers for your watchmaking lathe, or for use in your Gravermeister. > > > Greetings to the porch! > > For the more curious, these are the cutting heads used in an > electron powered rotary engraving / lettering machine, such > as the type you find at the local locksmith or jeweller. The > machine engraves characters in metal or plastic, and the use > of a pantographic arm allows the creation of various font > sizes of the character templates used. Some of you may have > had the "lamacoid" plastic versions on your office doors on > on your desk, with the coloured foreground and white > lettering that appears after removal of the coloured surface layer. > > Regards, ed > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157848 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-07 12:28:31 Subject: Minimum necessary event information, www.thescorre.org/calendar Anthony Seo wrote: > At 08:09 AM 3/7/2006, Bretton Wade wrote: > >> I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they >> never say exactly where. >> >> PatinaTools.org reports this: >> Location with no useable street address snipped > > I had posted this before back in Feb but.......... > > Directions to the show. > > http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm > I think a point is getting lost in the Patina directions. The original request was for a useable in map software address so someone could find the event without combing past porch notices looking for directions. Ms. Software-tester-from-user-point-of-view noticed that Tony included a URL with what looks like directions. (Good!) Going to the main Patina site I can't find them (not so good). The event listing is what Bretton posted, "meetings" lists when but not where at all, and Auction Information lists the location but again no address. I haven't poked in FAQ's or references, but the "obvious" choices don't tell me what I need if I find out I am available at the last minute. This is not to diss a volunteer site maintained by volunteers, it is to point out that not everyone has been here before and knows the area. Multiply by all the galoot events in the country... I also play in the SCA which has "standard" events, but we have a requirement that to publicise an event you must include complete directions. This clues the website folks that it is easiest to cut and paste the hardcopy information to the web, so I can always find directions at the last minute. Galooting is not so organised, but if we could remind folks occasionally we might find more newcomers? www.thescorre.org/calendar/index.htm is the calendar for my local chapter for an example. Esther (for whom auctions are definitely not in the budget or on the calendar at the moment) -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157849 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 10:01:10 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 05:52 am, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > aland@s... writes: > > George > cuts the bulk of the waste out with a coping saw. > > John notes: > > Rob Cosman also uses a coping saw to remove the bulk of the waste. His 2 > DVDs on cutting dovetails are clear and have been very helpful to me. John, Rob Cosman's videos are excellent. I think Rob uses a fret saw, at least that's what he says, but either way he cuts most of the waste out with it, then chops both sides with a mallet/chisel. One advantage of *most* coping saws vs. fret saws is that the blade will rotate in a coping saw. In a fret saw, the blade is thinner, but *typically* doesn't rotate, so you may need a deep throat fret saw (I have an old Miller Falls with about 12" depth). With a rotating blade it allows a saw with a shallow throat to angle the blade so you can cut waste on long sections of dovetails. The blades in themself are different as coping saws have the pins on the end of the blade to secure them, and a fret saw is held securely on the flat of the blade (if that makes sense). Would be nice to have a fret saw that rotates as a coping saw (Cosman seems to have one from watching his video). I've been thinking about modifying a coping saw to do just that. The reason is that for a dovetail saw which is typically pretty thin, the fret saw blade fits in the kerf easily, where a coping saw blade doesn't, and requires a larger 2 passes/cuts from the inside of the waste over (unless one wants to risk damaging the saw kerf). The method George, and if I remember correctly...Ian Kirby use, is to par the waste by leaning into it (opposed to using a mallet). Of course there are many ways to skin this cat, and another method is to chisel out the waste entirely by popping slivers of waste from the end grain. There's tons of great info, online, videos, books, classes which are available these days. Folks are pretty fortunate to have such a resource of information available. I would highly reccomend Ralph Laughton's book, "Success with Joints", my kids got it for me for the holidays. It is a great book for folks starting down the path of hand cut joinery, and this book is focused on cutting joinery with hand tools. One of the few I've seen focused using hand tools for various joinery. It shows the basics of cutting a good majority of the common joints, such as m&t, miters, butt & edge, notched and half, dovetails, dados, sliding dovetails, etc...all with hand tools. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157850 ---- From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" Date: 2006-03-07 13:21:16 Subject: Harrelson Stanley Sharpening Class Report Short Summary: If Harrelson Stanley (of http://www.japanesetools.com) is in your area (probably at the local Woodcraft) giving a Free Hand Sharpening Seminar and you think you might like to go, you should. It's likely to be a very useful, interesting and rewarding experience. Long Report: Back last fall, Ken Pendergrass mentioned on this list that he had just attended a sharpening demonstration given by Harrelson Stanley and found it to be extremely valuable. His comments are here: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id- =152072&submit_thread=1#message With my interest raised, I checked the Japanese Tools web site and saw that Mr. Stanley would be giving the same demo at my local (Albany NY area) woodcraft very soon. Happiness! On the appointed day, I scheduled a long lunch and headed down to Woodcraft. There I found that the demo had been canceled. Sadness! I left my name to be contacted if the demo was rescheduled. As it turns out the demo was canceled because Mr. Stanley had simply "petered out" (was "knackered" (I think), Jeff). He had literally been driving all over the country in a Motor Home giving free demos and it was ultimately too draining financially and energy wise to keep going. Now he plans on giving a more lengthy seminar for paying students (my class was $75) for a longer period (my class was scheduled for 3 hours). I was fortunate in that he gave his first class here at the Albany area Woodcraft this past Saturday. Those of us (8) attending where told to bring in a #4 Plane Iron, 3/4 and 1/4" chisels and a non-serrated knife. Mr. Stanley (who is the USA rep for Shapton Stones) brought sharpening stations for use by each student. These stations consisted of a lapping plate, sharpening tray and 1000,2000,4000,8000,15000 & 30000(!) grit Shapton water stones. The class started with some discussion of Mr. Stanley's background (which is amazing. Among other things he lived for 8 years in Japan apprenticing at various woodworking/craft related tasks). He also spent time talking about the physics and (for lack of a better words) "spirit" of sharpening. Once we got to the business of sharpening (which might have been delayed a bit too much by the introductory material but he's still "tuning" the class) we set to work getting our plane irons as sharp as we possibly could. Mr. Stanley used the analogy of learning Golf to emphasize that we were primarily there to learn the body mechanics and grip required to sharpen quickly and effectively. Mr. Stanley teaches sharpening in a side to side freehand style (no jigs). For me this was a revelation. I always found it difficult to "lock" the appropriate honing angle and tended to rock the blade when using the usual back and forth motion. With a side to side motion, locking the angle is easier (for me at least) when the honing motion doesn't apply any force against the honing angle (since it's at right angles to it). He also taught a number of other sometimes unexpected techniques (there was an audible gasp when he jointed the plane iron on the 30k stone after the 1000 grit honing step. He didn't repeat that after subsequent grits :-)) Overall he's just a fascinating person to listen to and learn from and I greatly enjoyed the class. The value of having someone watch how you're doing something and point out corrections especially for something that has to be physically learned is hard to overstate. Mr. Stanley is still working out the details of his future class schedule, but as I said if you see him showing up in your area I highly recommend the class. Best, Keith in Ballston Lake Where the shave horse made from BORG cull lumber is almost done. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157851 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-07 13:26:02 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Alan Writes: Rob Cosman's videos are excellent. I think Rob uses a fret saw, at least that's what he says, but either way he cuts most of the waste out with it, then chops both sides with a mallet/chisel. One advantage of *most* coping saws vs. fret saws is that the blade will rotate in a coping saw. In a fret saw, the blade is thinner, but *typically* doesn't rotate, so you may need a deep throat fret saw (I have an old Miller Falls with about 12" depth). With a rotating blade it allows a saw with a shallow throat to angle the blade so you can cut waste on long sections of dovetails. The blades in themself are different as coping saws have the pins on the end of the blade to secure them, and a fret saw is held securely on the flat of the blade (if that makes sense). Would be nice to have a fret saw that rotates as a coping saw (Cosman seems to have one from watching his video). I've been thinking about modifying a coping saw to do just that. The reason is that for a dovetail saw which is typically pretty thin, the fret saw blade fits in the kerf easily, where a coping saw blade doesn't, and requires a larger 2 passes/cuts from the inside of the waste over (unless one wants to risk damaging the saw kerf). John replies: The saw he uses (fret/coping/schmoping) has a very thin blade so that is easily fits into the kerf made by his L-N(??) dovetail saw. I don't think he uses a rotating fret saw. He demonstrates in the DVD how to get around the need for a deep throated (or rotating bladed) saw, by taking a pair of pliers and putting just a slight (30-45 degree???) twist in each end of the blade so that when the blade is cutting parallel to the bottom of the dovetail or pin, the opposing frame of the blade easily clears the top of the dovetail or pin. I tried it and it works slicker than snot on a doorknob. No need to cut twice from different directions as in George's demonstration. Cheers, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157852 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 11:11:47 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 10:26 am, sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > He demonstrates in the DVD how to > get around the need for a deep throated (or rotating bladed) saw, by > taking a pair of pliers and putting just a slight (30-45 degree???) > twist in each end of the blade so that when the blade is cutting > parallel to the bottom of the dovetail or pin, the opposing frame of > the blade easily clears the top of the dovetail or pin. I'll have to go back and look at that closer, I do have the video. I thought the saw had some type of swivel on there, but if I understand what you're saying, this is just done on a typical fret saw, by galootin' the ends of the blades. Yes, I also like using a fret saw over a coping saw as I prefer to use a thin kerf also. It all depends on the wood, and the saw. I have a hard time keeping the fret blade inside some of the jeweler's style fret saw (with sliding adjustable frame). The Miller Falls works partially on frame tension, and secures the blade well, so have been using it. I only have 2 fret saws, and my jeweler's style has crappy blade clamps, need to figure something out there. I'm gonna check that video out again, seems I missed that specific. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't watch close enough...;-) It did look like he was using what I called a jeweler's style fret saw above. Seems that putting a fret blade on a modified coping saw (if they'll fit, seems I have a coping saw the proper width). Of course the Miller Falls has 12" of throat and a nice old wooden handle, with ornate type thumbscrews. Bonus points: Were there smaller throated Miller Falls fret saws? With the same old style tumbscrews, I think late 1800s possibly? I'd love to find a smaller one. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157853 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 12:28:37 Subject: RE: Minimum necessary event information, Ester made very good points about information usability. I made changes to what I proposed and also received necessary info from Dave Leader, including a map and places to stay description. Since Dave volunteered, from now on he is the Events Editor... (in my eyes...). Dave, you know that this is a free country and you can say NO. ;-) Here is what I have so far: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zMisc/calendar/calendar.asp Ester, if you can please look at this and let me know If this is workable? Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > Subject: Minimum necessary event information,was: Re: > [OldTools] PATINA AntiqueTool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 > - Directions > > > > I think a point is getting lost in the Patina directions. > The original request was for a useable in map software > address so someone could find the event without combing past > porch notices looking for directions. > > Ms. Software-tester-from-user-point-of-view noticed that Tony > included a URL with what looks like directions. (Good!) Going > to the main Patina site I can't find them (not so good). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157854 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-07 14:39:40 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it? Tom Ellis Dayton, OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Alan DuBoff > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:12 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. > > On Tuesday 07 March 2006 10:26 am, sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > > He demonstrates in the DVD how to > > get around the need for a deep throated (or rotating bladed) saw, by > > taking a pair of pliers and putting just a slight (30-45 degree???) > > twist in each end of the blade so that when the blade is cutting > > parallel to the bottom of the dovetail or pin, the opposing frame of > > the blade easily clears the top of the dovetail or pin. > > I'll have to go back and look at that closer, I do have the > video. I thought > the saw had some type of swivel on there, but if I understand > what you're > saying, this is just done on a typical fret saw, by galootin' > the ends of the > blades. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157855 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-07 14:45:57 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Alan wrote; I'm gonna check that video out again, seems I missed that specific. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't watch close enough...;-) It did look like he was using what I called a jeweler's style fret saw above. John replies: Note that Rob Cosman has two 'How to' dovetail videos/dvds. The first focuses soley on through dovetails, the second focuses on three more advanced types (llap, houndstooth, etc.). I don't recall in which one of the two he demonstrates how he modifys his fret saw. It's been a while since I've watched them, but IIRC he does use what I would call a jeweler's style saw (but then I called a fret saw a coping saw--so what do I know!). Cheers, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157856 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-07 13:50:15 Subject: RE: Minimum necessary event information, Gentle Galoots, I guess I'm a little confused. There's already a fully-functional calendar on Galoot Central. Granted, not many people have put information on it yet, but it's there for all to use. Anyone can post information, or submit it to one of the admins at GC and they will post it. http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=NuCalendar I'm not sure why we're reinventing the wheel, but I'm certainly willing to let the market decide. Let's see which calendar people want. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157857 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-07 13:54:06 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Tom pondered: :I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing :removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing :compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it? It's the difference between paring and chopping. If you don't cut out the waste, a chopping action is necessary. When most of the waste is gone, a paring action is adequate. I guess some Galoots (like me) are more comfortable and feel more in control when paring then when chopping. I've seen a demonstration where the chopping action tends to undercut the joint (even with a perfectly vertical chisel - it's a matter of the failure of the wood fibers). Granted, this is end grain and not really a viable gluing surface anyway - so I guess it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other. Rob in Peoria, who has yet to successfully cut dovetails... 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157858 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-07 14:56:44 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Tom wonders: I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it? John (who is not an experienced dovetailer) opines: It requires less effort to get a good job, less opportunity for an inexperienced dovetailer to screw up, less chisel sharpening, and It's bunches faster for me, especially if I get the fret saw cut close to the line. I note that in Cosman's video demonstrations, it only takes him a couple of chops to finish the task. Cheers, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157859 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-07 12:11:04 Subject: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Assembled Galoots, On Saturday, I was the fortunate attendee at the first ever travisher making class at John Wilson's Home Shop in Charlotte, Mi. This is the third or fourth tool making class I've been to with Gil as the instructor and I've enjoyed them all immensely. It's been said here before, but if you get the chance to take a woodworking or toolmaking class, take advantage of it. Ours is a mostly solitary hobby so it's a great opportunity to learn and share ideas with fellow tool enthusiasts. This was the first time that Gil has taught this particular subject so it was a learning process for all, but I must say that it succeeded spectacularly. We started the morning making the blade. Gil supplied O1 stock that had been cut in the shape of the blade. We proceeded to grind the bevel then bend the stock to the circular shape of the sole of the travisher using hardwood blocks and a vise for a press. As I remember, the blade had a 3 1/2" radius. We then heated and bent the tangs to 90 degrees (more or less) to a horizontal tangent at the center of the blade. We finished the initial metal work by hardening and tempering the blade. The little time left in the morning was spent doing layout on the hard maple stock of the travisher. The wood work was very similar to making a spokeshave. After lunch, we chiseled out the escapement, then made the mortises for the tangs. Gil used an interesting technique to do this. A hole was first drilled in the stock and then we got to use fire again to heat a square rod and burn a square hole by pressing the heated rod through the hole. We then fit the blade to the stock and cut out outline of the sole. The profile of the sole was then refined by sanding to match the curve of the blade exactly. The blade is held in the stock by set screws, so at this point the hole for the set screws were drilled and tapped. Finally, the top and edges of the stock were cut out for the desired shape. The rest of the day was spent sharpening and honing the blade and cleaning up the stock of the travisher using files and rasps. I had a little bit of cleaning up to do at home before finishing, but left the class with a working travisher. I am pleased with the way my travisher turned out. It looks good and cuts really well in my opinion. A big thanks to John Wilson for hosting the class, Gil Chesbro for sharing his knowledge and expertise with us and his patience for working through the problems, and also thanks to Gil's lovely assistant, Wes Groot, for providing an extra hand and knowledgable opinion. Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi. where it looks like spring could be just around the corner. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157860 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-07 15:22:07 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > > John replies: > > Note that Rob Cosman has two 'How to' dovetail videos/dvds. The first > focuses soley on through dovetails, the second focuses on three more > advanced types (llap, houndstooth, etc.). I don't recall in which one > of the two he demonstrates how he modifys his fret saw. > > It's been a while since I've watched them, but IIRC he does use what I > would call a jeweler's style saw (but then I called a fret saw a coping > saw--so what do I know!). > The original discussion was "turning a corner" cutting out most of the waste making dovetails. The magic isn't the saw type (to me "coping" is the ~6" blade with pins, fret/jeweler's is the clamp pads holding a random length blade that gets shorter as you keep breaking it ;-), but the width of the blade with respect to the material. A jewel(l)er can easily turn a right angle in little more than the width of the kerf cutting out jewelry scale sheet metal (but you break a lot of blades learning and a few when you are good, they are sold by the gross). I would suspect having not seen the video that Crosman is doing the same thing on a bigger scale, no funky blade or saw mods needed. Any basic "how to cut out jewelry shapes" beginning jewelry book would explain the details, if you want to experiment, try cutting progressively sharper arcs until you are turning a corner. I do know the kerf can't be much less then the width (not thickness) of the blade which is why you break so many. Esther -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157861 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-07 13:52:57 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Tom asks "Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it?" I saw out as much waste as possible and then chop out the rest because if I don't saw out most of the waste first, my first chop will often mar the cut. I'll try and explain why. When paring or chopping out dovetail waste, you are driving a wedge into the wood. Since the incline plane of the chisel point is facing the waste, it tends to drive the flat back of the chisel into the non-waste wood if the waste puts up much resistance. This causes the chisel back to dent the wood on the non-waste side of the line you scribed to be the bottom of your dovetail thereby creating a gap in the final joint. When you start chopping on the base of the entire block of waste, it is solid enough for the chisel to wedge against. However, if you saw out most of the waste, then the small amount of waste left over does not provide a solid enough mass for the chisel to wedge against. So instead of being pushed back across the scribe line into your stock, it just slices off the waste. Does that make sense? I'm no dovetail expert. But that's why I do it that way. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157862 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-07 15:55:06 Subject: Re: And This Week's Winner - Redux At 06:30 PM 3/5/2006, genfurn wrote: >Sheesh, Tony, don't be so sensitive. After all, you coulda used it >till it broke and then tried to find another "original" plastic >handle to replace it. I hear ya. Seems to be the week for this kinda nonsense. I had pulled a few more tanged chisels off the shelf, ones with crappy handles, to knock the handles off and to sell as a fixer-upper lot. Well the first one, the tang bolster pretty much covered the end of the handle so there was nothing to grab onto and knock off. You could see that the handle had been split and glued. And either painted or stained with something opaque... Well I chucked it in the vise and grabbed another chisel and a mallet to split it off. Gave it the usual light tap to start it (one doesn't care how current the tetanus shot is, getting jabbed in the hand with a sharp and rusty chisel tang ain't a whole lotta fun, been there done that etc), and the chisel just bounced off. Gave it a harder whack and the same thing. What in ^$*%#)(* is going on here? So applying rule one of blacksmithing (when in doubt get a bigger hammer) in this case a bigger mallet I give it a substantial whack, and a piece goes flying off. The end of the handle that is. Seems that whoever the card carrying member of the Jr. Einstein Club was that did this, when the handle split originally, glued the splits and then glued a piece of some kind of wood sideways across the end of the handle. Grrrr. And it was old glue, not hide glue, not epoxy, but it had a death grip on things. Finally got it knocked off and the old handle split off as nice as you could ask. And people ask me why I drink. And cuss. Tony (where the weather ain't looking too bad other than that whole bunch'a wet heading this way for later in the week) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157863 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-07 15:53:59 Subject: Re: Minimum necessary event information, was: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Robert Weber wrote: > Gentle Galoots, > > I guess I'm a little confused. There's already a fully-functional calendar > on Galoot Central. Granted, not many people have put information on it yet, > but it's there for all to use. Anyone can post information, or submit it to > one of the admins at GC and they will post it. > > http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=NuCalendar > > I'm not sure why we're reinventing the wheel, but I'm certainly willing to > let the market decide. Let's see which calendar people want. > Getting perilously close to off-topic and extremely philosophical for some reason today, I suspect 2 things are going on at once: 1. It was not well known that galootcentral had a calendar feature so people were not feeding it. 2. Some galoots doing major websites have opposing internal maps of the ideal Internet universe. IIRC when Wik first started his website he was thinking in terms of a central repository of information. Some of us have the Usenet point of view that sees a virtue in being decentralised, if something/some one goes down, you lose some things but not everything. Those who were on the big woodworking web discussion that died a few years ago (Badger Pond?) will understand what I mean. If you are trying to be a central repository because you think it is a Darn Good Idea, you will add any features that are demonstrated to be missing, which Wik appears to be doing. If you don't think everything should be in one place (things happen and the traffic gets big which gets expensive) at some point everything in a few places makes you nervous. Rob's link farm is the necessary component if you have multiple locations, it lets you find everything from one location instead of missing links you haven't personally tripped on and saved. But some folks may recall when he started it I suggested some mirrors in case something happened. Here is the test for anyone who wants to know if an event listing is complete: can your wife/mother/GIT/non-woodworking fishing partner find all the information to appear at the event given only what is on the event listing? Or in journalese: who what when where and why? (assume the tester is not from the area and knows no local landmarks). -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157864 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-07 16:07:11 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. > Does that make sense? > > I'm no dovetail expert. But that's why I do it that way. > Makes all kinds of sense, and is, I guess, one of maybe four answers to the question, How do I avoid marring the cutting gauge line? In no particular order.... Take a couple of whacks on a sample of the wood, so you can see how much to allow for "jumping back." This has the limitation that you have a chisel that is narrow enough to move that much ahead in the waste area. Before whacking, make a back-cut into the cutting gauge line, giving you an asymmetrical V at the base of the waste - which has the same limitation as above. Use a coping/fret saw first. Give up and watch a re-run of Law and Order...there seems to be at least one on at any given time. Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: Blake Ashley [mailto:Blake.Ashley@t...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:53 PM > To: Ellis, Thomas; oldtools@r...; Alan DuBoff > Subject: RE: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. > > Tom asks "Since you have to pare the bottom of the > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > way that Klausz does it?" > > I saw out as much waste as possible and then chop out the rest because > if I don't saw out most of the waste first, my first chop > will often mar > the cut. I'll try and explain why. > > When paring or chopping out dovetail waste, you are driving a wedge > into the wood. Since the incline plane of the chisel point is facing > the waste, it tends to drive the flat back of the chisel into the > non-waste wood if the waste puts up much resistance. This causes the > chisel back to dent the wood on the non-waste side of the line you > scribed to be the bottom of your dovetail thereby creating a > gap in the > final joint. When you start chopping on the base of the > entire block of > waste, it is solid enough for the chisel to wedge against. > However, if > you saw out most of the waste, then the small amount of waste > left over > does not provide a solid enough mass for the chisel to wedge against. > So instead of being pushed back across the scribe line into > your stock, > it just slices off the waste. > > Does that make sense? > > I'm no dovetail expert. But that's why I do it that way. > > Blake > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157865 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-07 13:30:33 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Hunter and GGs, I have just uploaded pictures to GIC, but do not have the expertise to make a link to it quite yet. If you go to the Galoot Image Central and look under my file, you should find the pictures. For anyone interested, I stained the travisher using tea(Wes G.s suggestion), applied a coat of BLO and then a couple of coats of shellac, sanded down and applied wax. Jim --- Hunter.COX@i... wrote: > Got any pix? I am in the process of making a > travisher at this point have forged the blade and > tangs, bent the tangs and preliminarily sharpened > the blade next I plan on putting the curve in the > blade then make the body. If you have a pix you > could email that would be great > > Thanks > > Hunter > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157866 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-07 16:23:36 Subject: The Woodworking Channel Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, since I have only been reading about 50% of my email lately, but someone is developing a new web resource, simply called "The Woodworking Channel", will have videos, etc. of various things. Their demo site has a video by Brian Boggs on the drawknife, an excellent introduction to it. http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. You must register for more info. http://www.multicastmedia.com/demos/woodworkingchannel.htm Right now, the demo video is free, don't know if it will stay that way or not. Its worth taking a look at. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157867 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-07 16:24:21 Subject: FW: For your vice collectors, with only one vice http://www.uclick.com/client/zzz/fmc/ Gary Gary Yarrow Two Herbs Workshop 819 Harvey Dunn St. Brookings, SD 57006-0896 www.twoherbs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157868 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 14:52:43 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 11:39 am, Ellis, Thomas wrote: > I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > way that Klausz does it? This is kinda like a loaded question. Frank Klausz, in his video, chops out the waste quickly by first taking a wedge from one side of the waste, flipping it over and wacking the rest of the waste out. This works well with pine, but try this with a piece of hardwood and it's not so easy. The paring method takes thin cuts/slices off the waste to the mark. By cutting the waste out, leaves less to par. This is all kinda confusing at best as there is no single way to cut a dovetail, and some will cut pins first, some tails first, some par, some chop, some cut, some measure, some don't measure, etc... I am in no way an expert, although I have tried most of these methods to come up with what works for me. Different wood gets me to do things differently as well. Speaking for myself, the harder the wood, the more accurate I want my saw cut to be. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157869 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 15:05:06 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 12:22 pm, Esther Heller wrote: > I would suspect having not seen the video that Crosman is doing the same > thing on a bigger scale, no funky blade or saw mods needed. Any basic > "how to cut out jewelry shapes" beginning jewelry book would explain the > details, if you want to experiment, try cutting progressively sharper > arcs until you are turning a corner. I do know the kerf can't be much > less then the width (not thickness) of the blade which is why you break > so many. You might not understand the problem it solves then. A coping saw works fine, and many people use one. If you use a thin kerf blade, like the IT/LN dovetail saw, the coping blade is too thick to fit in the kerf, and because of that you have 2 choices. Either cram it in the kerf and risk damaging your saw cut, or cut the waste from the middle and sweep the cut down to one of the corners, then take another cut along the bottom mark. A fret saw fits in the kerf, so it allows you to do exactly as you describe in a beginning jewelry book. The point of using a fret saw (which I completely agree, the blades sure break easy on certain model fret saws;-), is to get to the point where any basic book you describe above can be used. Any book that can explain how to fit a coping saw blade in a narrower kerf would be an interesting read. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157870 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-07 17:09:00 Subject: RE: And This Week's Winner - Redux > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Anthony Seo > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:55 PM > To: genfurn; oldtools > Subject: Re: [OldTools] And This Week's Winner - Redux Now the way I see this problem Tony et al, is that you are missing the opportunity to practice "spacious awareness" and to think kind thoughts regarding your fellow Galoots. Remember, it may have been one of us creative Neanderbu-ba--I can't bring myself to say the word Bubba--it rankles my Midwestern sensibilities--who glued that *&^% handle on there in the best of frugal intentions. If ya' call me Bubba I have to kill ya'--at least metaphorically. Let that person who is without sin, let him or her cast the first broken Stilson and/or monkey wrench. Which of you has not committed tool lust in your heart? And, to get the cash to buy a longed for tool has not doctored the goods including putting that crappy chisel before Brother Tony? You have caused him to stray and driven him to drink the demon bourbon---about 2-3 fingers of which will sweeten the repose for the evening. So Tony, as you reach for that bigger hammer it might help if you imagined the countenance of the biggest pain in the *(@ you can think of and swing with gusto. I doubt you get brownie points in the hereafter with that technique, but you will no doubt feel less frustration. You know I just hate it when you get frustrated, constipated, twittlepated or whatever, cause you get grouchy and raise your prices. OT Content. Had major tree-trimming done today and have some very nice sycamore, butternut and juniper. Got everything from an anvil base, turning stock, carving wood--including some nice natural elbows for hand adze handles and some firewood. Had 'em haul off the soft maple cause it rots before I can get it used. I hope to get another hundred years out of some of these trees. Dogs been peeing down her leg ever time the ground would shake. She's 10 and very sensitive. The guy in the bucket was a master with a rope and the motorized cutting tool and has a bigger bladder than the dog which he also controls much better. Paul in Normal > At 06:30 PM 3/5/2006, genfurn wrote: > > >Sheesh, Tony, don't be so sensitive. After all, you coulda used it > >till it broke and then tried to find another "original" plastic > >handle to replace it. > > I hear ya. > > And people ask me why I drink. > > And cuss. > > Tony > > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157871 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-07 18:24:04 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Esther writes: no funky blade or saw mods needed. Esther, Sorry that I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I think the only purpose of twisting the blade slightly is to allow the blade to cut parallel to the top/bottom of the dovetail/pin without the frame of the saw hitting the top of the dovetail/pin (particularly on a board wider than the frame of the saw). He (and I) seem to have no problem turning the corner from the kerf into the waste to be removed. Cheers John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157872 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-07 15:35:37 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. but then wouldn't it just be as easy to make two cuts, a chopping cut say 1/8" from the line and then a paring cut to the line? avoiding the whole compression of wood fibers next to the line thing... or am i, per usual, missing something? bill felton, ca On Mar 7, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Blake Ashley wrote: > I saw out as much waste as possible and then chop out the rest because > if I don't saw out most of the waste first, my first chop will > often mar > the cut. I'll try and explain why. > > When paring or chopping out dovetail waste, you are driving a wedge > into the wood. Since the incline plane of the chisel point is facing > the waste, it tends to drive the flat back of the chisel into the > non-waste wood if the waste puts up much resistance. This causes the > chisel back to dent the wood on the non-waste side of the line you > scribed to be the bottom of your dovetail thereby creating a gap in > the > final joint. When you start chopping on the base of the entire > block of > waste, it is solid enough for the chisel to wedge against. > However, if > you saw out most of the waste, then the small amount of waste left > over > does not provide a solid enough mass for the chisel to wedge against. > So instead of being pushed back across the scribe line into your > stock, > it just slices off the waste. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157873 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-07 16:47:15 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Bill says "but then wouldn't it just be as easy to make two cuts, a chopping cut say 1/8" from the line and then a paring cut to the line? avoiding the whole compression of wood fibers next to the line thing..." Hmmmmm . . . maybe so. It would solve the problem of crushing the wood on the non-waste side of the line. It would require chopping or paring through the waste twice, and flipping the stock four times. But it still might be just as easy as messing around with a coping saw - especially when the kerf from the dovetail saw is too fine for the coping saw blade so that I must make two cuts into each chunk of waste. And frankly I MUCH prefer whacking a chisel to working a coping saw around in a little chunk of waste. I'll try it!!!! Of course the best answer is probably a Barnes Velociraptor Scroll Saw. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157874 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-07 19:04:41 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Bill says "but then wouldn't it just be as easy to make two cuts, Hmmmmm . . . maybe so. But it still might be just as easy as messing around with a coping saw - especially when the kerf from the dovetail saw is too fine for the coping saw blade so that I must make two cuts into each chunk of waste. Of course the best answer is probably a Barnes Velociraptor Scroll Saw. Well, I have put those tiny little fret saw blades in the Barnes, and yes, you can turn a mighty sharp corner with them, but you could only do it on the tail board, with the board flat on the saw table. The Big Barnes doesn't have a tilting table, and the pin board could not be cut without either over cutting on one side and undercutting on the other, unless you worked some semi complicated wedging under the pin board while cutting out the waste. Much easier to just find a tilting table treadle or velocipede scroll saw that will take very thin fret saw blades, much easier. Michael-San Francisco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157875 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-07 16:55:59 Subject: finishing douglas fir i bought a bunch of old-growth douglas fir joists (4x14s and 4x18s, cut down in the 1880s) a couple years back, and am using a chunk of one for a fireplace mantel (5' long, 11" wide, and 3" thick). i am planning on machine planing it down to rough dimensions, then hand planing it down to final. it's got 20-30 growth rings per inch, and a knot every 4 feet going halfway through the thickness. can i expect to get it down to a nice smoothness with plane (l-n 4.5) and scraper (a stanley 12 with hock blade) once it's dimensioned? wipe with tung oil and then finish with shellac? it'll be 25" above the opening of our zero-clearance fireplace, so i am not *that* worried about heat/cold...but don't want it to look horrible either. i was also thinking of radiusing the top edge so it wouldn't have a chance to split, in front and on the sides. any advice from the assembled? dankie, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157876 ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 2006-03-07 17:31:22 Subject: Re: finishing douglas fir --- Bill Kasper drive=-by gloated: > i bought a bunch of old-growth douglas fir joists Braggart. > (4x14s and 4x18s, cut down in the 1880s) Double Braggart. [text planed away per faq, a fascinating read, and there's a link to it at the bottom of this message] > can i expect to get it down to a nice smoothness with plane (l-n 4.5) If you can't plane doug fir with one of those yuppie bastard (tmPL) acoutrements, then it's time to pick a new hobby... like say engaging in the hobby of sending old-growth douglas fir (not really a fir tree, but we won't quibble) down south where it'll be thorougly appreciated. > wipe with tung oil and then finish with shellac? The first-ever wood/finish combo I used when demonstrating the wonders of an oil finish's chatoyance (the greasy paper bag effect), and "nature's wood lens" shellac. Yes, it should be fine unless you're going to be burning pallets in that fireplace. Cut the tung oil 2:1 with fresh turpentine. BLO works well for this as well, and is cheaper than tung oil if you care. > radius? I prefer chamfers over radiuses for rustic beam-like decorations like what yer thinking of (sorry bh). A small chamfer will do it. This is why block planes were invented. Good luck and have fun. Don't pop a hamstring lugging those beams around. Paddy Whittier, Californy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157877 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-07 19:32:28 Subject: Re: Minimum necessary event information, Let me weigh in and hopefully issue the last word since I run the place.... Galoot Central (http://www.galootcentral.com) is a jumping off point, a sister site to the Galoot Image Central. It was a project born of me needing an outlet after a family tragedy. The list nourishes me... for this I am grateful and try to give back in ways that I can... Wiktor and I had an brief exchange earlier today ... I don't and don't think either of us view the sites as necessarily competing. They are complementary ... Wiktor is amassing a wondering repository of how-to content. A place to go and hang out for a while. Immerse yourself if that's what you need. Galoot Central is tools oriented .. well, web tools.. It hosts Rob's wonderful link farm which resides in a database now that is archived regularly. If the site goes down or I do, the data is captured and can easily be recreated elsewhere by folks who do that sort of thing. The calendar.. well, it looks like a calendar and if it is useful, well, I suppose people will use it. Time will tell. I put it up there because in other sites I run for scout troops and churches it was a heavily requested thing that once in place, garners most of the traffic. Bottom line though is the site is about finding what you need an moving on. Like Esther, I have the Usenet mentality.. nice to get a lot in one place, but nice to have stuff in enough places that one blast doesn't wipe you out (hmmmm.. maybe that was military training..) OTOH, I think folks who say there's too much stuff in too many place have a good point too!! Hey, use 'em both for how they best serve you. Or something else that works better. I'm not trying to save the world .. just using stuff I've got laying around and trying to be useful. A concept that has served me well my whole life and one I'm desperately trying to pass on to my kids. One of them is bound to pick it up... ... which finally brings me to something moderately on topic and then I'll shut up and let's kill the thread.... I get home from a meeting today.. run out to pick up a kid from a birthday party. Walk back in and the 2 year old says over and over and over as he brings me his shoes and socks.... "Daddy, can we go to the workshop?" Doesn't get much better than that!! Cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin Esther writes with wisdom: > Getting perilously close to off-topic and extremely philosophical for > some reason today, I suspect 2 things are going on at once: > 1. It was not well known that galootcentral had a calendar feature so > people were not feeding it. > 2. Some galoots doing major websites have opposing internal maps of > the ideal Internet universe. > > IIRC when Wik first started his website he was thinking in terms of a > central repository of information. Some of us have the Usenet point of > view that sees a virtue in being decentralised, if something/some one > goes down, you lose some things but not everything. though!> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157878 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-07 18:20:29 Subject: WHATSIT? I discovered a brand name on my whatsit. It is Harper and Reynolds, Los Angeles. Brand: HARECO Hope this helps to identify it. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157879 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-07 18:49:09 Subject: (no subject) thanks, paddy... On Mar 7, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Patrick Olguin wrote: > --- Bill Kasper drive=-by gloated: >> i bought a bunch of old-growth douglas fir joists > Braggart. >> (4x14s and 4x18s, cut down in the 1880s) > Double Braggart. you mustn't of read my original post...scan down to the second message of the thread: http://denali.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu:8080/ ~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=126000&submit_thread=1#message heh, heh. > If you can't plane doug fir with one of those yuppie bastard (tmPL) > acoutrements, then it's time to pick a new hobby... well, i expect to, but wondered about the splintering i've read happens with fir. i've scraped a piece down to flat, and it's seemingly pretty solid between the early and late wood, but some of the edges are pretty stringy (they were damaged at some point). i just don't have time to get it planed down to dimensions by hand (i'd have to take an inch off, nearly, in thickness, and about that in width, before getting to the final surface), so using the machine, but want a shiny finish on it from well-cut fibers rather than the dreck left by the machine. it'll be mounted next week, i'll take before and after pics. > like say engaging in the > hobby of sending old-growth douglas fir (not really a fir tree, but > we won't > quibble) down south where it'll be thorougly appreciated. tell ya what, next time you're in the neighborhood (bring the gitette up for a ride at the boardwalk!) i'll give ya a big hunk of this here pseudotsuga menziesii. ya big lunk. how'd 4 feet of pretty clear wood nearly full 4x14 do ya? >> wipe with tung oil and then finish with shellac? > The first-ever wood/finish combo I used when demonstrating the > wonders of an > oil finish's chatoyance (the greasy paper bag effect), and > "nature's wood lens" > shellac. Yes, it should be fine unless you're going to be burning > pallets in > that fireplace. Cut the tung oil 2:1 with fresh turpentine. BLO > works well > for this as well, and is cheaper than tung oil if you care. blo it will be, then. i was just worried about its flammability above the fireplace, but i guess it's not going to spontaneously (or otherwise) combust once soaked into the wood. spit coat of shellac, then build it up? maybe a thin coat of beeswax on top of that, once levelled (using 600 grit emery paper and mineral spirits)? >> radius? > I prefer chamfers over radiuses for rustic beam-like decorations > like what yer > thinking of (sorry bh). A small chamfer will do it. This is why > block planes > were invented. understood. that's why i was thinking of a radius, like a 1/4" round, so it's distinctly *not* looking like a hand-adzed/chamfered beam. that's what we'll have over the windows, at some point. > Good luck and have fun. Don't pop a hamstring lugging those beams > around. who's zooming who? try putting 1000 bf of that stuff under the house in a 4' crawl space with two old guys (me and a buddy) and two young guys...it's not the hammies we wasted, it was the lower backs. but now i am stronger, and i actually cut the stuff into two 7 foot lengths (for me, and for my buddy, who lives across the street and is going to have his planed by the same friend this weekend, for his mantel) using a nicd d-23 8 pt crosscut. like buttah, but it took a while to get through all 14 inches... how's the little gal? b ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157880 ---- From: "Paul Ferenchak" Date: 2006-03-07 21:48:58 Subject: "perfection" I am with Paul and Adriaan. "You can learn more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing" Paul Ferenchak ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157881 ---- From: "Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze" Date: 2006-03-07 21:51:43 Subject: Martin Donnelly Auction Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I am planning on going, but not for the auction. And I need a bit of advice. For the last several auctions he has put on here in Indy, I have tried to go to the tailgating portion but have always missed most of the action. When is the best time to go for the tailgating? I have several hours of overtime this week that I can burn up as comp time so I can go whenever I want, but I don't want to waste my time wandering the parking lot waiting for everyone to set up either. TIA, Gary Who is watching St. Roy demonstrating inlay form last weeks show... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157882 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-07 22:04:10 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class As well you should be pleased with it. It came out beautifully! I actually had to google it to see what these tools do. According to what I read it's used for shaping seats. SO are you planning to make something using it??? Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157883 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-07 20:27:04 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I watched the demo video this evening, and was pleased with the amount of information Boggs was able to pack into the short amount of time. I have to say, I learned a lot. But... ... at the same time, while watching the video I had to work hard to suspend my disbelief that this was basically an info-mercial for Lie- Nielsen's drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. Not only was I sitting there listening to Brian Boggs tell me about his Lie-Nielsen tools, I was serving as a captive audience to the still ads flashing by for PC and LN tools. Bottom line, if they're looking for subscription revenues, I hope they ratchet back on the crass commercialism. If they're going to pay the bills with the flashing ads, I still hope they ratchet back the commercialism, if only a little bit. Alex Moseley | third-generation woodworker | Independence, Missouri | alex_moseley@y... ----- Original Message ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" To: OldTools@r... Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2006 4:23:36 PM Subject: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, since I have only been reading about 50% of my email lately, but someone is developing a new web resource, simply called "The Woodworking Channel", will have videos, etc. of various things. Their demo site has a video by Brian Boggs on the drawknife, an excellent introduction to it. http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. You must register for more info. http://www.multicastmedia.com/demos/woodworkingchannel.htm Right now, the demo video is free, don't know if it will stay that way or not. Its worth taking a look at. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157884 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-08 08:32:09 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Ellis, : Thomas : Sent: 07 March 2006 19:40 : To: Alan DuBoff; oldtools@r... : Subject: RE: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. : : : I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the : cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what : is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only : way that Klausz does it? An interesting question since there is minimal adhesion between the end grain of the lands and tail faces. The tradesman's way of chopping directly across (ie at right angles) the workpiece face can be a quick and efficient way of removing the waste, yet I have not yet found a way of doing this without leaving a gap in the centre of the land (ie the area between the pins, or the 'socket floor') caused by the fibres breaking at the final parting. Nobody should see this, and the loss of gluing area is immaterial. You might get some enlightenment from my web site Dovetailing Detailed - Advice for Choppers (bottom of the page) and 'Where You Start Can Matter'. The section 'Completing the Pins' illustrates a compromise that starts by sawing (not illustrated) chopping (at an angle to the surface) and finishes by paring. You need to pare if for some reason the land/tail joint line will be exposed, eg when sawing the upper part of a box to form a lid, when decoratively shaping (eg routing, hollowing) the faces of the job, preparing for an exam, if you can't bear the thought of an imperfection lying unseen inside the job, or just enjoy doing it. When directly chopping it can be difficult to ensure we don't form a convex land so the practised workman will undercut, knowing that, providing that during cleaning up not much is removed from the face of the job, he can get away with it. However if we should 'overcut' we have to finish with a bit of paring anyway. Incidentally, if you saw out most of the waste, keep the offcuts. You never know when you might need a matching piece for a bit of repair work. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157885 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-08 03:59:31 Subject: Dico Blue Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called Deco Blue. It was supposed to be finer than the usual green compound. I tried without success to find it here and was curious. Is anyone using this stuff and if so what kind of results are you getting and where do you find it. Thanks Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157886 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:43:38 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > John replies: > > The saw he [Rob Cosman] uses (fret/coping/schmoping) has a very thin > blade so that is easily fits into the kerf made by his L-N(??) > dovetail saw. The naming of this saw has been discussed before (although I'm damned if I can find it in the archives). The conventional name for the saw he uses is a jeweller's or piercing saw. A fret saw is the one with the ultra deep bow, used for the manual production of the sort of work almost universally made in the USA using a (demon powered) scroll saw. Neither fret saws nor piercing saws (normally...) have rotating blade holders. Here's an old fret saw: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1825 BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157887 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:46:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Ellis, Thomas wrote: > I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > way that Klausz does it? At the risk of exageratin' fer' clarity, why not "chop" planks to length instead of cross-cut sawing them? BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157888 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:51:45 Subject: Re: Minimum necessary event information, was: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Esther Heller wrote: > 2. Some galoots doing major websites have opposing internal maps of the > ideal Internet universe. Yeah - I'm a decentraliser myself. The parts of my site that I put the most effort into are the parts that are unique to me. Otherwise I simply link, or leave well alone. For the 'net to work for all of us, we don't need a few people to make massive efforts. As long as each of us does what we can, the aggregate is great. This view is demonstrated everyday by the COLLECTIVE knowledge of the Porch. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157889 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:56:39 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. paul womack wrote: > sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > >> John replies: >> >> The saw he [Rob Cosman] uses (fret/coping/schmoping) has a very thin >> blade so that is easily fits into the kerf made by his L-N(??) >> dovetail saw. > > > The naming of this saw has been discussed before (although I'm damned > if I can find it in the archives). Sigh. (all links out of date) http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswing- le/archive/get.phtml?message_id=138922&submit_thread=1#message BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157890 ---- From: "greg" Date: 2006-03-08 04:28:33 Subject: Re: Dico Blue I have some plexiglass polish that came from woodworker's supply made by dico. I don't see it listed in the catalog but it seems this is the replacement: http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=126-464 Appears to be the same product under a different name. greg > Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called > Deco Blue. It was supposed to be finer than the usual green compound. I > tried without success to find it here and was curious. Is anyone using > this stuff and if so what kind of results are you getting and where do you > find it. > Thanks > Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157891 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-08 05:37:50 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. At the risk of exageratin' for mischief, why not saw the dovetail waste so carefully that no paring is needed? (Although I will admit that I do occasionally have to use a shooting board after chopping a cross-cut.) Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: paul womack [mailto:pwomack@p...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:46 AM > To: Ellis, Thomas > Cc: Alan DuBoff; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. > > Ellis, Thomas wrote: > > I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the > > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > > way that Klausz does it? > > At the risk of exageratin' fer' clarity, > why not "chop" planks to length instead > of cross-cut sawing them? > > BugBear > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157892 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-03-08 07:06:19 Subject: warding? Yesterday I was shopping the Dick catalog for a couple of files I need and I kept noticing the warding files. Which is flat like a hand file but the sides which cut curve gracefully to a point. What is warding, a noun or verb, inquiring minds want to know? Thanks, Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157893 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-08 04:30:55 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Wendy, Thanks for the kind words. I'm on the cusp of Windsor chairmaking. I am currently in the accumulating phase of chairmaking tools and am doing research about making Windsors. I am almost through the prerequisite post and rung part of chairmaking. I've completed one chair and have the parts of 6 more fabricated waiting assem...errr drying to proper moisture content. A local woodworking group that I belong to is ready to start a group project of making a Windsor comb back high chair. My plan for now is to make one on my own in parallel with the group. Regards, Jim --- Wendy Sarrett wrote: > As well you should be pleased with it. It came out > beautifully! I actually > had to google it to see what these tools do. > According to what I read it's > used for shaping seats. SO are you planning to make > something using it??? > > Wendy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157894 ---- From: Bill Fariss Date: 2006-03-08 04:45:33 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel If you get the Boggs video of the same name from LN you will find that it is the same thing. --- Alex Moseley wrote: > I watched the demo video this evening, and was > pleased with the amount of information Boggs was > able to pack into the short amount of time. I have > to say, I learned a lot. > > But... > > ... at the same time, while watching the video I had > to work hard to suspend my disbelief that this was > basically an info-mercial for Lie-Nielsen's > drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. -- snip --- Bill Fariss Sterling, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157895 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-08 06:50:55 Subject: RE: Martin Donnelly Auction I'd like to know when and where this is also. Never been tailgating fer old tools! We are 3 hours or so from Indianapolis. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:52 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Martin Donnelly Auction > > Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I > am > planning on going, but not for the auction. And I need a bit of advice. > For the last several auctions he has put on here in Indy, I have tried to > go > to the tailgating portion but have always missed most of the action. When > is > the best time to go for the tailgating? I have several hours of overtime > this week that I can burn up as comp time so I can go whenever I want, but > I > don't want to waste my time wandering the parking lot waiting for everyone > to set up either. > > TIA, > > Gary > > Who is watching St. Roy demonstrating inlay form last weeks show... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157896 ---- From: "Wes G." Date: 2006-03-08 07:08:08 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Jim's travisher is evidence of 3 things: Jim makes nice tools. Gil teaches really well. The power of group builds like this class. I was really happy to have been back in John Wilson's shop to observe and help photograph the first Travisher class. I think there were 8 students from all backgrounds. As far as I could tell, every person went away with a new tool that worked really well. That's pretty great for a one day class. Jim's shop is perfect and really well appointed for the class, but there's no reason this type of class couldn't be done almost anywhere. Some electrons were burned in the name of saving time, but a galoot-style class could be done as well. With a few bowsaws, braces and rasps/files to replace the machines there need be no electrons used at all. I'm voting right now that we entice Gil to teach this class at Galootapalooza XI this summer! Cheers, Wes, Lollygagger. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157897 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-08 08:13:03 Subject: WTB Woodie Dado Planes GG`s, By chance might any of you have any woodie dado`s that need a good home ? Got 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 and 7/8`s. Looking for a 1/4, 3/4 and a 1 incher to round out the set. Mabee even a 3/16th if ya got one. Thanks John Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. Where it is going to rain for the next few days. Sounds like good shop and reading weather. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157898 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-03-08 08:29:12 Subject: PATINA Web Galoots, If you click on your browsers "view source" option for the web page for PATINA directions that Tony posted < http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm >, you'll notice that the source was the PATINA web site I created and managed until 5 years ago. I moved from Maryland to Florida. I switched ISPs, dropped all my web space and yet the pages persist. Good! But, how? Respond off list please. But, I do view the web pages I did for PATINA to now be an old tool, making this post questionably legal. For those that don't remember, the source for anything hand tool related used to be a web site called "The Electronic Neanderthal" out of Cornell University run by Alan Fisher. Take a look: < http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html >. What's happened to it? Hey Tony - you wrote "You could see that the handle had been split and glued. And either painted or stained with something opaque..." I'm sure that is one I sold you along with the other junk!!! And Tony wrote "And people ask me why I drink" Yea, us old timers on this list remember you were always looking for a Gimlet no matter what time of day!! Sheesh, I'll miss harassing you this weekend, but it is sunny and in the 80's here! How much snow in Maryland this weekend? Never Dull in hand for the spittoon! *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157899 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-08 08:36:41 Subject: Re: Martin Donnelly Auction Gary Asked: > Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I am > planning on going, but not for the auction. And I need a bit of advice. > For the last several auctions he has put on here in Indy, I have tried to go > to the tailgating portion but have always missed most of the action. When is > the best time to go for the tailgating? I have several hours of overtime The auction starts both Friday and Saturday at 9:30 AM. If past practice is a guide, people will be set up in the parking lot by 7or 7:30 AM both mornings. Usually, Saturday is a little better as more people are able to come. All of this is weather permitting. I did just look at NOAA forecast, and it calls for 1 to 2" of rain on TH & TH evening, clearing on Friday (time unknown). Then, partly cloudy on Friday evening and a 30% chance of showers on Saturday. So, my guess is Saturday morning will be a bit better. Until the past few years, the parking lot has been a good place to find tools of all sorts. However since then, there have been fewer dealers/sellers set up. (I'd guess 12-18 now instead of 30 or so that used to be there.) I suspect that the combination of higher travel cost, and more of us getting used to absentee bidding, that attendance has been down a bit, and thus fewer dealers take the time and effort to drag their tools out and set up. Personally, I like to see the tools in the auction and put my hands on them before I bid if I can. And I usually find a few things to buy and sell in the parking lot. So, I will be there Saturday, wearing my stealthy Grey Galoot hat...or my Black CATS hat with the nifty round Galoot emblem sewn on! Hope to see some Galoots there. Chris In West Lafayette, IN (60 Mi. N of Indy) where it looks like the big rains will start any time now.........But it _is_ going to be nice on Saturday morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157900 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-08 06:25:29 Subject: Re: Dico Blue If you want something finer than the usual compounds, try jeweler's rouge. It shold be easy to find, and it works well. On Mar 8, 2006, at 12:59 AM, Steve Lineback wrote: > Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called > Deco Blue. It was supposed to be finer than the usual green compound. > I tried without success to find it here and was curious. Is anyone > using this stuff and if so what kind of results are you getting and > where do you find it. > Thanks > Steve > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157901 ---- From: philatelist Date: 2006-03-08 09:48:39 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I really don't mind the advertisments. Plus depending on which viewer you are using you can go full screen with the video. I'm really looking forward to it. I don't get chances to go to demonstrations or events so I learn by video and trial-n-error. For people like me it will be a big bonus. Plus you get to see items you may not have seen before in the advertisments, plus deals, etc. For those of us that work 50-60hrs a week, aren't retired, or just generally wealthy this is for us. I've passed the link on to several buddies and they all are looking forward to it. Brian in Myrtle Beach -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Fariss Sent: Mar 8, 2006 7:45 AM To: Alex >Moseley , OldTools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] The >Woodworking Channel > >If you get the Boggs video of the same name from LN you will find that >it is the same thing. > > >--- Alex Moseley wrote: > >> I watched the demo video this evening, and was pleased with the >> amount of information Boggs was able to pack into the short amount of >> time. I have to say, I learned a lot. >> >> But... >> >> ... at the same time, while watching the video I had to work hard to >> suspend my disbelief that this was basically an info-mercial for Lie- >> Nielsen's drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. > >-- snip --- > >Bill Fariss Sterling, Va. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157902 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-08 09:49:40 Subject: Re: Dico Blue Hey Steve, >Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called Deco >Blue. I'm using Dico's buffing compound for plastic, 529 PBC-B, which is the light blue colored compound. I can't recall where I found the information, but I seem to recall that this compound has a 0.3 micron particle size. I use it on a hard felt wheel as my final treatment for edge tools. Though I can't compare to other compounds I can tell you that my edges attain hair-popping sharpness with this treatment. I got a 1.25 pound bar from Enco for about $5 usd. Check Here: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=891-5183&PMPXNO= 3905004 Or here: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=05359534&PMCTLG=00 I've been using this stuff all the time and might need another bar in a decade or so... -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157903 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-08 10:05:50 Subject: Re: warding? Ken wrote: : A participle, i.e. verb form used as an adjective (cf. "swimming pool" or "coping saw"). I believe the original use was for filing the shapes of keys for warded (in the sense of "guarded") locks. These were necessary to let the key rotate past the lock's internal wards, which were there to discourage entry by skeleton key or lockpick. Some old keys are very complexly slotted indeed. John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157904 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-08 08:14:37 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. While contemplating and cogitating on this, a question emerged. Unless one is making dovetails with the very thin old English style pins, why cut dovetails with a thin-kerf saw? If I use a saw that leaves a wider kerf but still cuts to the line, why not? The wider kerf will make it easier to get a coping/fret/jeweler saw down into the cut and turned sideways. Sure a wider kerf takes more effort, but we aren't resawing maple planks here. Blake (being driven to question all kinds of his assumptions about cutting dovetails) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157905 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-08 07:44:01 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. For what it's worth I seem to be able to get a coping saw blade in the kerf left by my dozuki (eastern tools of the devil). I will say the cost Olson coping saw was well worth the money. Never thought there could be much difference in coping saws but an Olson with an 18pt tooth cuts like a dream. Joel McCarty --- Blake Ashley wrote: > While contemplating and cogitating on this, a > question emerged. Unless > one is making dovetails with the very thin old > English style pins, why > cut dovetails with a thin-kerf saw? If I use a saw > that leaves a wider > kerf but still cuts to the line, why not? The wider > kerf will make it > easier to get a coping/fret/jeweler saw down into > the cut and turned > sideways. Sure a wider kerf takes more effort, but > we aren't resawing > maple planks here. > > Blake > (being driven to question all kinds of his > assumptions about cutting > dovetails) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157906 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-08 08:53:02 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 11:45 am, sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > I don't recall in which one > of the two he demonstrates how he modifys his fret saw. It's in the first one. Sure, you were right in that there was no swivels, and you can't see very clearly but he does just galoot the blade up on the ends. > It's been a while since I've watched them, but IIRC he does use what I > would call a jeweler's style saw (but then I called a fret saw a coping > saw--so what do I know!). The fret saw he uses is not the typical jeweler's saw that sports the adjustable frame. It looks like a larger frame, almost like a C clamp with some heavy duty clamps for the ends of the blade. The smaller jeweler's style saw I have doesn't clamp the ends of the blade well enough, and the blades pull out (or when cutting, breaks). -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157907 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-08 12:13:53 Subject: Re: PATINA Web At 08:29 AM 3/8/2006, Karl W. Sanger wrote: >Galoots, Uh huh > If you click on your browsers "view source" option for the > web page for PATINA directions that Tony posted > < http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm >, > you'll notice that the source was the PATINA web site I created > and managed until 5 years ago. I moved from Maryland to Florida. > I switched ISPs, dropped all my web space and yet the pages > persist. Good! Well methinks they are sitting on what ever server that is hosting the PATINA web site but I don't think anyone has paid them much mind. I got the link from an older email message I had archived here. > For those that don't remember, the source for anything hand > tool related used to be a web site called "The Electronic > Neanderthal" out of Cornell University Actually its on the Carnegie Mellon University site out of Pittsburgh PA > run by Alan Fisher. Take a look: > < http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html >. What's happened to it? Well the last time I talked to Alan, and this has to be at least 3 years I think, Life 101 had kinda taken over things for him. It's a shame, because The Electronic Neanderthal was THE first old tools site on the web and is the longest lived of any. > Hey Tony - you wrote "You could see that the handle had > been split and glued. And either painted or stained with something > opaque..." I'm sure that is one I sold you along with the other junk!!! Hmmmm..I'll have to ponder that. > And Tony wrote "And people ask me why I drink" Yea, us old > timers on this list remember you were always looking for a Gimlet > no matter what time of day!! Uh-huh...just picked up another one yesterday...that makes, well at this point I ain't got a freaking clue. > Sheesh, I'll miss harassing you this weekend, but it is > sunny and in the 80's here! How much snow in Maryland this weekend? None that I know of. You know Karl we could always take a collection to buy you a ticket to come up some time. The problem is, that more people would contribute to a fund to keep you DOWN there.......... Tony (where the sun is shining and a few tools are starting to show..) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157908 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 17:27:18 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Alan DuBoff wrote: > The fret saw he uses is not the typical jeweler's saw that sports the > adjustable frame. It looks like a larger frame, almost like a C clamp with > some heavy duty clamps for the ends of the blade. Some are adjustable some aren't; it's a common variation either way. http://www.groz-tools.com/saw11.htm http://www.groz-tools.com/saw10.htm (antique ones are often prettier :-) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157909 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-08 11:00:20 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel In all fairness to TWC and L-N, I have to agree it was good information. I wouldn't have sat through it otherwise. At the end, I felt more confident in my use of my drawknife (not a Lie-Nielsen), so it was time well spent. I'm not retired and I don't consider myself wealthy, but I have mixed feelings about being bombarded by advertising in general. Life is not about "buy my product". As an individual, the message I was interested in was "here's how to use drawknives and spokeshaves to achieve this goal." If the people delivering that message are more interested in telling me "buy our drawknives and spokeshaves", then I need to look somewhere else to learn about using drawknives and spokeshaves. That's the balance I hope TWC and L-N are able to strike in the future. I hope they do because I think there is a lot of potential value for the site to the woodworking community. As long as that value to the woodworking community comes first, I'll continue to tune in. Alex ----- Original Message ---- From: philatelist To: OldTools@r... Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 8:48:39 AM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel I really don't mind the advertisments. Plus depending on which viewer you are using you can go full screen with the video. I'm really looking forward to it. I don't get chances to go to demonstrations or events so I learn by video and trial-n-error. For people like me it will be a big bonus. Plus you get to see items you may not have seen before in the advertisments, plus deals, etc. For those of us that work 50-60hrs a week, aren't retired, or just generally wealthy this is for us. I've passed the link on to several buddies and they all are looking forward to it. Brian in Myrtle Beach -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Fariss Sent: Mar 8, 2006 7:45 AM To: Alex >Moseley , OldTools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] The >Woodworking Channel > >If you get the Boggs video of the same name from LN you will find that >it is the same thing. > > >--- Alex Moseley wrote: > >> I watched the demo video this evening, and was pleased with the >> amount of information Boggs was able to pack into the short amount of >> time. I have to say, I learned a lot. >> >> But... >> >> ... at the same time, while watching the video I had to work hard to >> suspend my disbelief that this was basically an info-mercial for Lie- >> Nielsen's drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. > >-- snip --- > >Bill Fariss Sterling, Va. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157910 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-08 12:33:50 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Galoots, I wanted to send an update to the list. I've been corresponding this morning with Reed Smith at The Woodworking Channel, sharing feedback and learning a lot about where they are coming from as an organization. What I learned is that they are real woodworkers who have experience teaching others to work wood, especially with hand tools. I also learned a little about where they want to go with the web site, and I have to say, I'm excited! They seem to be looking to create a broad spectrum of content from a variety of high-quality sources. This is going to be good. Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157911 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-08 14:43:59 Subject: Woodworking Channel + drawknife Although Boggs was using a Lie-Nieson drawknife, I didn't know or can find, that they make one. Future tool? Boggs has designed other tools for them, so that's what I am assuming I don't plan on running out, or pressing a keyboard, to order one, just curious. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157912 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-08 15:32:33 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel Alex, I appreciate the feedback from Reed Smith and the Woodworking Channel. I, too, went to the website and found the tutorial really helpful. Not to mention, I was really impressed by anyone can use a drawknife at that lightning speed! Internet advertising has always been a conundrum to me. There is so much of it that I know that I just tune it out and rarely, no very rarely, respond to it. I know who and where Lie-Nielsen and Woodcraft are and if I wanted a product from there I would buy it. On the other hand, I guess I do remember who was advertising! Maybe they are hoping to find the uninitiated? On the other, other hand, if they can make me subliminally buy a L-N #9 mitre plane maybe I will get my wife to watch it and she'll have this overpowering urge to pay for it! I hope the endeavour takes off and is successful. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Alex Moseley > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:34 PM > To: OldTools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > Galoots, > > I wanted to send an update to the list. I've been corresponding this > morning with Reed Smith at The Woodworking Channel, sharing feedback and > learning a lot about where they are coming from as an organization. > > What I learned is that they are real woodworkers who have experience > teaching others to work wood, especially with hand tools. I also learned > a little about where they want to go with the web site, and I have to say, > I'm excited! They seem to be looking to create a broad spectrum of > content from a variety of high-quality sources. > > This is going to be good. > > Alex > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157913 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-08 16:34:57 Subject: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes GG`s, Could a fellow Galoot enlighten me on the mysteries of the wooden rabbet (rebate, Jeff) plane ? Now I understand fillisters with the built in adjustable fence. The fence and depth stop combine to control the width and depth of cut. Now enter the Ohio tool 116 http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/OhioTool/Rabbet.htm Which would seem to be a simple enough tool for trimming tenons and most anything with a shoulder. Like ummm a shoulder plane Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. Cross grain on a panel using a batten as a guide with the nickers down ??? Long grain with the nickers up and the batten again ?? How would you control depth ?? Seems like a fillister country here...... What am I missing here ? Thanks John Edwards New Baltimore, Mi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157914 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-08 13:50:08 Subject: Re: "perfection" Hee heeeee, you guys crack me up! Personally, I've got the attention span of a fruit fly at a farmer's market. So I never noticed anyway. Wood, metal, ceramic, glass, paper, chemicals, plastics,...ancient stuff, old stuff, new stuff, ... close up and far far away.............all just grist for the mill around my wandering brain. No way can I keep my mind on anything long enough to specialize, even if I wanted to. Now, if I could only remember everything I've ever learned, right off the top of my head ?? "Oh Rainman, party of one, your table is waiting." :-) Don't we wish. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157915 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-08 14:16:59 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I fail to understand why we should expect people to put good, useful stuff up on the internet for free. Some people do, and I greatly appreciate it, but we don't have a right to expect it, or to demand it. There is a good deal of time and expense involved in putting up stuff like I saw Brian Boggs doing in the video. Isn't he supposed to make a living? Who do you know that does his daily work for free? I had no problem with the advertising. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157916 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-08 14:22:46 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes On 8 Mar 2006 at 16:34, John Edwards wrote: > Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) Here with have a tool with > a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What would this be used for > ? No depth stop to control the cut. Basically, a jack rabbet. Two nickers because it is intended to be used cross grain as well as with the grain. A handle because it's a bigger plane than your standard 9 1/2 incher and would be too hard to use otherwise. Good description on page 93 of Whelan: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_whe_2.htm We are always happy to answer questions, but if you don't start building a library, what's going to be your excuse for building bookcases? Anyone with an interest in wooden planes needs to own this book. Really. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157917 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-08 16:31:29 Subject: FW: Woodworking Channel + drawknife Although Boggs was using a Lie-Nieson drawknife, I didn't know or can find, that they make one. Future tool? Boggs has designed other tools for them, so that's what I am assuming I don't plan on running out, or pressing a keyboard, to order one, just curious. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157918 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-08 16:42:11 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. The presentation he made was excellent and I look forward to more of the same from the Woodworking Channel. . Regards, Huck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" To: "oldtools" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel >I fail to understand why we should expect people to put good, useful stuff >up on the internet for free. Some people do, and I greatly appreciate it, >but we don't have a right to expect it, or to demand it. There is a good >deal of time and expense involved in putting up stuff like I saw Brian >Boggs doing in the video. Isn't he supposed to make a living? Who do you >know that does his daily work for free? > > I had no problem with the advertising. There ain't no such thing as a free > lunch. > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157919 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-08 17:53:21 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes Ken and Gary, Thanks for the response(s). I have Whelan's book and did look at the description of the Jack Rabbet. Guess that is what made me even more confused. I see a rabbet as a cut along the face of a board on the edge. Ether with or cross grain. Now I could see the advantage of nickers on both sides. But how is the side of the tool registered ? Perhaps against an already made shoulder ? And then the rabbet plane would trim a tenon or established rabbet for that "perfect" fit ? What means are there to control the depth ? Would seem using a batten cutting cross grain away from the edge would be the job of a dado. As in bookcase shelves. Guess I am still not getting it....... John "DUH" Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Greenberg" To: "John Edwards" ; "Old Tool List" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes > On 8 Mar 2006 at 16:34, John Edwards wrote: > > > Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) > > Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What > > would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. > > Basically, a jack rabbet. Two nickers because it is intended to be used cross > grain as well as with the grain. A handle because it's a bigger plane than your > standard 9 1/2 incher and would be too hard to use otherwise. Good description > on page 93 of Whelan: > > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_whe_2.htm > > We are always happy to answer questions, but if you don't start building a > library, what's going to be your excuse for building bookcases? Anyone with an > interest in wooden planes needs to own this book. Really. > > -Ken > > > Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) > 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm > Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/06 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157920 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-08 19:03:57 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes I found a similar plane about a month ago, sans the nickers, a Sandusky 149. . the collective response from the porch was that they are called Jack Rabbet planes and were used by carpenters and house joiners for making large rabbets in housebuilding. I could see how a large plane like this might be just the thing for running a quick rabbet around say a window or door frame to get it to fit into an opening or rabbeting the back of a board to get it to fit against its neighbor or a stud. Plane seems a tool for rough work on a job site rather than more refined bench work. Still need to make some nickers for mine, and then find a use for it, maybe the shop needs some panelling?? Michael-San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: John Edwards To: ken@c...; Old Tool List Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes Ken and Gary, Thanks for the response(s). I have Whelan's book and did look at the description of the Jack Rabbet. Guess that is what made me even more confused. I see a rabbet as a cut along the face of a board on the edge. Ether with or cross grain. Now I could see the advantage of nickers on both sides. But how is the side of the tool registered ? Perhaps against an already made shoulder ? And then the rabbet plane would trim a tenon or established rabbet for that "perfect" fit ? What means are there to control the depth ? Would seem using a batten cutting cross grain away from the edge would be the job of a dado. As in bookcase shelves. Guess I am still not getting it....... John "DUH" Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Greenberg" To: "John Edwards" ; "Old Tool List" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes > On 8 Mar 2006 at 16:34, John Edwards wrote: > > > Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) > > Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What > > would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. > > Basically, a jack rabbet. Two nickers because it is intended to be used cross > grain as well as with the grain. A handle because it's a bigger plane than your > standard 9 1/2 incher and would be too hard to use otherwise. Good description > on page 93 of Whelan: > > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_whe_2.htm > > We are always happy to answer questions, but if you don't start building a > library, what's going to be your excuse for building bookcases? Anyone with an > interest in wooden planes needs to own this book. Really. > > -Ken > > > Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) > 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm > Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/06 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157921 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-08 16:17:30 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes On 8 Mar 2006 at 17:53, John Edwards wrote: > Now I could see the advantage of nickers on both sides. But how is the > side of the tool registered ? Perhaps against an already made shoulder > ? And then the rabbet plane would trim a tenon or established rabbet > for that "perfect" fit ? What means are there to control the depth ? I think you are on the right track here. Of course, the advantage of the fillister is that it does have a fence and depth stop so you can use it to make a rabbet from scratch. OTOH, if you saw out the rabbet, then you can use a rabbet plane to clean it up. I tend to do this more on smallish work, which is probably why I never saw the need for one of these jack rabbets. You could use some sort of guide temporarily affixed to the work (or the plane, as Whelan points out). I do have a skew rabbet, but I never use it to start a rabbet, just to clean one up for this reason. Depth stops - well, it's not that hard to plane to a line. Even when I have a depth stop I all too often crank it up out of the way and just remove all the wood that's not supposed to be there. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. Just depends on the phase of the moon or something. > Would seem using a batten cutting cross grain away from the edge would > be the job of a dado. As in bookcase shelves. Possibly, except that the dado plane is traditionally used in the middle of the board whereas the rabbet plane is used at the edge or end. But you knew that. Why two nickers if one of them is going to be hanging out in mid-air? Well, even on the cross grain work it is sometimes cleaner to go in one direction than the other. Saves you the trouble of reconfiguring the plane if it's ready to go from either side. Just wild speculation on my part here, since I don't own any planes with two nickers except for the functional two nickers on the dado plane leading iron. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157922 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-08 20:48:13 Subject: Drawknife question Gentle List, I see some drawknives described as having folding handles, and some as having adjustable handles. After having watched the Boggs/L-N video recently posted, I now have a very clear idea about the utility of having adjustable handles on a drawknife. What is the purpose of having folding handles on a drawknife? As always, thanks for your elucidation. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157923 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-08 20:59:59 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Thank you Jim; well said. Very respectfully, Larry James Thompson wrote: > I fail to understand why we should expect people to put good, useful > stuff up on the internet for free. Some people do, and I greatly > appreciate it, but we don't have a right to expect it, or to demand > it. There is a good deal of time and expense involved in putting up > stuff like I saw Brian Boggs doing in the video. Isn't he supposed to > make a living? Who do you know that does his daily work for free? > > I had no problem with the advertising. There ain't no such thing as a > free lunch. > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157924 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-08 21:07:23 Subject: Re: Martin Donnelly Auction On Mar 7, 2006, at 9:51 PM, Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze wrote: > Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I'll be inning and outing - got no $$$. Look for a Type 2 Galoot cap (denim blue) and a red "McGraw-Hill Science Textbook" bag. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Juicy red meat is not bad for you... Fuzzy green meat, now THAT’S bad for you ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157925 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-08 21:18:10 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class On Wednesday 08 March 2006 07:30 am, Jim Crammond wrote: > I'm on the cusp of Windsor chairmaking. > Very cool!! That sounds exciting! It sounds like you're really learning a lot about chairmaking! > A local woodworking group that I belong to is ready to > start a group project of making a Windsor comb back > high chair. That sounds like fun! Nothing like a group to keep the project moving foward. I look forward to seeing how they turn out! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157926 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-08 21:24:43 Subject: Re: Martin Donnelly Auction On Mar 8, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Chris Berger wrote: > > Gary Asked: > >> Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this >> weekend? {snip} > > The auction starts both Friday and Saturday at 9:30 AM. {snip} According to the Friday Listed Auction catalogue, it starts 9:01 am EST. Don't want anybody to show up late. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Juicy red meat is not bad for you... Fuzzy green meat, now THAT’S bad for you ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157927 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-08 21:23:34 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for the production, the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from somewhere. I don't think the ads are intrusive and since they're geared to the audience, it may prove to be a pointer to something I'm looking for. This the model that Google uses and it works very well. Wend ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157928 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-08 18:46:09 Subject: Re: Drawknife question On Mar 8, 2006, at 5:48 PM, John Johnson, Sgt42RHR, wrote: > After having watched the Boggs/L-N video recently posted, I now > have a very > clear idea about the utility of having adjustable handles on a > drawknife. What > is the purpose of having folding handles on a drawknife? I believe the main reason is to make a more compact unit that makes more efficient use of space in one's toolbox. Plus which, the handles, when folded, protect both the cutting edge from nicks, and the proximate surfaces from being nicked by the cutting edge, when knocking about in said toolbox. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157929 ---- From: "C N Schwartz" Date: 2006-03-08 22:15:01 Subject: RE: FW: Woodworking Channel + drawknife I had the pleasure of using a Lie Nielson drawknife at a John Alexander class. Back in 2002 or 2003. It was a prototype, I was told, for a possible future product offering. I've been waiting ever since. It was a very good drawkife. -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Yarrow, Gary Although Boggs was using a Lie-Nieson drawknife, I didn't know or can find, that they make one. Future tool? Boggs has designed other tools for them, so that's what I am assuming I don't plan on running out, or pressing a keyboard, to order one, just curious. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157930 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-08 20:19:46 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to come from for work of many people putting very often superb information on the net. >From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Wendy Sarrett > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:24 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > > On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. > > I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for > the production, > the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157931 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-09 04:23:46 Subject: boiling oil Dear Galoots Some time ago, I decided I would try to oil my wooden planes. Following the example of a fellow woodworker, who was using camelia oil for the purpose, I decided to search for a local source of good camelia oil in Taiwan. I found it at a health food store. Pure comestible camelia oil (also called tea oil in chinese as it comes from tea tree nuts). I oiled 3 planes at first to see the result. They looked very nice. But after few month, mold started to appear. It was not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan or because I used comestible oil. So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? Another thing to know is that camelia is a common name, camelia japonica is not the same as camelia formosa for example. But I discovered it afterward... Ludo in Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157932 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-08 22:24:29 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Whoa there, hold on, now. :D Please don't misconstrue - I don't expect TWC to exist without advertising, I don't expect Mr. Boggs to give his time and effort for nothing, and I don't expect L-N to give away their videos. It was definitely good information, and honestly, probably worth the $20 plus shipping that L-N wants for the full length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" DVD ... once you get past the fairly obvious plugs for L-N products. The portion of the video available from TWC's demo, which was basically a cut-down version of the full-length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" video, was edited in such a way as to be heavily weighted toward L-N's product placement. That product placement is probably spread out better in the full length video. My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was that the knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back seat to L-N's advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. I don't think I'm the first person to wince at the way L-N videos blur the line between education and marketing, either. Maybe I failed to express my opinion as clearly as I could have, but bottom line, I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I do expect sincerity. If you're presenting educational material, present it. But don't dress up marketing material to look like educational material. So here's a counter-example: Chris Pye's free web books were sponsored by folks like Joel Moskowitz at Tools for Working Wood. I appreciated Joel's sponsorship, and have purchased from him when I've been in the market for what he offers - and I'll purchase from him again in the future. I've also purchased several of Chris Pye's trade books, and am very grateful to him for sharing his talents as a woodcarver and educator. What Chris and Joel achieved in that arrangement was closer to my ideal. Joel got his name out there, got my attention long enough for me to make the mental note to check out his site, and then he got out of the way so Chris Pye could do his thing, which is to share the joy of carving with anyone who's interested in listening. Chris wasn't selling a particular brand of carving gouge - he was sharing his craft. So what I'm saying is, there's a way to do advertising and sponsorship that avoids drowning out the content we're all there to take in*. TWC might not be able to work out the same arrangement with their sponsors as Chris worked out with Joel, but I sincerely hope that TWC's productions strike a better balance, and allow the educational message to be heard over the salesman's pitch*. It's the modest sponsor who'll win my loyalty, and that loyalty will lead me to a sponsor's door long before sensory overload from an overbearing advertising campaign will win me over. * Based on my conversations with Reed Smith at TWC, I have every confidence that they will be up to the task. Alex ...who is not, nor has ever been a member of the Communist Party. ;^) ----- Original Message ---- From: Wiktor A. Kuc To: Wendy Sarrett ; oldtools@r... Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:19:46 PM Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to come from for work of many people putting very often superb information on the net. >From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Wendy Sarrett Sent: Wednesday, March 08, > 2006 7:24 PM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] The > Woodworking Channel > > > On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. > > I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for the > production, the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from > somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157933 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-09 16:57:32 Subject: Re: boiling oil Ludo in Taiwan writes: > But after few month, mold started to appear. It was > not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton > cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether > it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan > or because I used comestible oil. > > So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? > Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? Both raw and boiled linseed oil will, after application to timber, host mould in the climatic conditions which obtain in and around Brisbane and beyond. Some of the product comes in packaging recommending its mixture with kerosene but without stating that this is for the purpose of inhibiting the growth of mould. However, the mixture of either type of linseed oil with kerosene certainly does appear to inhibit mould. Boiled linseed oil applied without the addition of kerosene appears just as ready to host the growth of mould as the raw stuff. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157934 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-09 10:03:40 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Alex Moseley wrote: > > My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was > that the knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back > seat to L-N's advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. > I don't think I'm the first person to wince at the way L-N videos > blur the line between education and marketing, either. They're following a fine tradition; "Planecraft: Hand Planing By Modern Methods" is a truly great reference book on using modern (i.e. 1900-1970 style) UK/USA style metal planes. (now in reprint by Woodcraft) It's also a shameless plug for the Record version of these tools, describing each and every Record feature as essential and/or valuable. Nobody gripes at Roy Underhill for pointing out and praising the features of the old-and-unobtainable tools he uses; I see no reason for special concern if Brian Boggs does the same. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157935 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-09 04:44:32 Subject: RE: boiling oil John & Ludo--I have only used boiled Linseed Oil and have never heard of adding kerosene! That is a new recipe, at least for me. I normally cut mine with Turpentine or sometimes plain old mineral spirits. Does the smell of the Kerosene dissipate fairly quickly? IME Kerosene takes forever to stop off-gassing! DAMHINT, but it involved a vehicle and a can in the trunk/boot. In central Illinois it is very humid in the summer. Before I was able to stabilize the temperature and humidity in the shop I was forever digging out wood tools that had a bloom of mold on them. Whether it does any harm I am not sure. I haven't seen any damage. The oil finish does darken over time which I like for most applications. I'm out on a limb here, but I wonder if the same additive that you can buy to prevent mold and mildew in outdoor paint would mix with the Boiled Linseed Oil. Since it is about 4AM when I'm writing this, I'll have to check my brain functioning later in the day! I use Canola/Rapeseed food grade oil on cutting boards. Can't say I have seen any mold on those, but they get used frequently so who knows. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > > Ludo in Taiwan writes: > > > But after few month, mold started to appear. It was > > not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton > > cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether > > it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan > > or because I used comestible oil. > > > > So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? > > Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? > > Both raw and boiled linseed oil will, after application to timber, host > mould in the climatic conditions which obtain in and around Brisbane and > beyond. Some of the product comes in packaging recommending its mixture > with kerosene but without stating that this is for the purpose of > inhibiting > the growth of mould. However, the mixture of either type of linseed oil > with kerosene certainly does appear to inhibit mould. Boiled linseed oil > applied without the addition of kerosene appears just as ready to host the > growth of mould as the raw stuff. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157936 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-09 05:59:14 Subject: Martin Donnelly Auction Gary asked about this weekends LFOD auction in Indianapolis. Chris Berger gave a good description of the basics especially the weather. With good weather the parking lot is more fun than the auction itself. Unless it pours down rain I will be there both mornings as well as both previews. If any of the Galoots show up please say hi. I don't have a Galoot hat but I will be the one with the confused look muttering to himself and reaching into his pocket for money that isn't there. Steve Whose wish list is longer than MJD auction listing ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157937 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-03-09 06:35:06 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I never got that feeling when watching the video clip. I've seen far worse that tried to push a product. I felt like Brian just voiced his opinion as he also mentioned some of the first ones he used. As for the shaves I felt like he voiced more on user preference as he mentioned and showed the various ones he had gone through(and made) which again I didn't feel like he was pushing "his" shaves. But, that's just my observation. I'm sure not everyone would have the same observation. I'm glad you talked to Reed and feel better about TWC as I for one want as many woodworkers watching as possible. I don't want TWC to dissolve. Brian Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Alex Moseley > To: Wiktor A. Kuc ; Wendy Sarrett ; ; > Date: 3/9/2006 1:24:29 AM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > Whoa there, hold on, now. :D > > Please don't misconstrue - I don't expect TWC to exist without advertising, I don't expect Mr. Boggs to give his time and effort for nothing, and I don't expect L-N to give away their videos. It was definitely good information, and honestly, probably worth the $20 plus shipping that L-N wants for the full length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" DVD ... once you get past the fairly obvious plugs for L-N products. > > The portion of the video available from TWC's demo, which was basically a cut-down version of the full-length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" video, was edited in such a way as to be heavily weighted toward L-N's product placement. That product placement is probably spread out better in the full length video. > > My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was that the knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back seat to L-N's advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. I don't think I'm the first person to wince at the way L-N videos blur the line between education and marketing, either. > > Maybe I failed to express my opinion as clearly as I could have, but bottom line, I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I do expect sincerity. If you're presenting educational material, present it. But don't dress up marketing material to look like educational material. > > So here's a counter-example: Chris Pye's free web books were sponsored by folks like Joel Moskowitz at Tools for Working Wood. I appreciated Joel's sponsorship, and have purchased from him when I've been in the market for what he offers - and I'll purchase from him again in the future. I've also purchased several of Chris Pye's trade books, and am very grateful to him for sharing his talents as a woodcarver and educator. > > What Chris and Joel achieved in that arrangement was closer to my ideal. Joel got his name out there, got my attention long enough for me to make the mental note to check out his site, and then he got out of the way so Chris Pye could do his thing, which is to share the joy of carving with anyone who's interested in listening. Chris wasn't selling a particular brand of carving gouge - he was sharing his craft. > > So what I'm saying is, there's a way to do advertising and sponsorship that avoids drowning out the content we're all there to take in*. TWC might not be able to work out the same arrangement with their sponsors as Chris worked out with Joel, but I sincerely hope that TWC's productions strike a better balance, and allow the educational message to be heard over the salesman's pitch*. It's the modest sponsor who'll win my loyalty, and that loyalty will lead me to a sponsor's door long before sensory overload from an overbearing advertising campaign will win me over. > > * Based on my conversations with Reed Smith at TWC, I have every confidence that they will be up to the task. > > Alex > ...who is not, nor has ever been a member of the Communist Party. ;^) > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Wiktor A. Kuc > To: Wendy Sarrett ; oldtools@r... > Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:19:46 PM > Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > > I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear > opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to > come from for work of many people putting very often superb > information on the net. > > >From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some > Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. > > Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of > cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there > are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > > Wendy Sarrett > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:24 PM > > To: oldtools@r... > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > > > > > On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > > > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. > > > > I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for > > the production, > > the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from somewhere. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157938 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-09 05:56:19 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel > Nobody gripes at Roy Underhill for pointing > out and praising the features of the > old-and-unobtainable tools he uses; I see > no reason for special concern if Brian > Boggs does the same. > > BugBear Right on. I'll just make a couple of observations. Whether it's Roy Underhill, Scott Phillips, Norm or the Router Workshop. They are all in the business and must have sponsors. The difference as I see it is that Brian Boggs is tied to L-N for several reasons. He uses the products that he designs and is part of the profit team one way or another. Other woodworking shows that are in syndication will change sponsors from time to time so they must deliberately avoid mentioning the product name . . in most cases. But, we all recognize the tool, glue bottle or other product they are using. No body is fooling anyone.But, since it is a syndicated program the same program can be shown for years just by slipping in new sponsors as they decide to pick up the show. Our friend Brian is in a totally different situation. His life blood is in the classes he holds and the tools he designs. And usually gets a handsome fee for each class. We should be grateful to Brian and The Woodworking Channel for sharing the talent of Brian Boggs FREE. So if he wants to mention that the spokeshave he is using is one that he designs, and he points out the advantages or disadvantages of the design, we are learning from that. We are learning just as we would in the classroom without having to pay for attending the class. Let's give the guy a break. I for one have used a spokeshave with the bevel up and the bevel down. I just never new why I was doing that. Now I know. Brian and the Woodworking Channel are saving us a ton of money. I look forward to more of the same. If an expert tells me why he uses a certain tool . . . I am better for the knowing. One more comment and then I'll crawl back under the porch. Some of our highly regarded members of this list make and sell tools in this forum. Any complaints? Regards, Huck > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157939 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-09 06:04:34 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Ok, Ok . . . I meant to say Drawknife. I caught the error just as I hit the send button. Using a spokeshave with the bevel up would be a real trick. Huck . I > for one have used a spokeshave with the bevel up and the bevel down. I > just never new why I was doing that. Now I know. Brian and the Woodworking > Channel are saving us a ton of money. I look forward to more of the same. > If an expert tells me why he uses a certain tool . . . I am better for the > knowing. > Regards, > Huck > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157940 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-09 07:31:55 Subject: Plane Eating Molds It is unlikely that the mold (aka fungi) people have described appearing on oil treated planes will not harm the plane. Of all the fungi on the planet, typically only one group of them has the ability to degrade wood, the Basidiomycetes,although there are always exceptions to the rule. Most of the "mushrooms" you observe in the woods are Basidios, decaying fallen trees, branches, etc. The other groups of fungi have a hard time decaying wood because the primary structural component of wood at the molecular level is lignin and lignin is a very tough nut for fungi to crack. Most "molds" are opportunists who only become successful with a readily available food source and a ton of water (either free water or atmospheric water). When you oil the plane, you are giving the fungi an available food source. This is not to say that on rare occasions some fungi won't start on the oil and then work their way into the wood, but this is generally unlikely. Wiping them down periodically is a good solution and a quick wipe with alcohol would also slow things down, but that may actually remove some oil, I'm not sure. Nathaniel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157941 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-09 08:07:25 Subject: camphor Galoots, Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon at bay? Thanks for info! Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157942 ---- From: Dan Miller Date: 2006-03-09 07:55:15 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel At 07:04 AM 3/9/2006, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: >Using a spokeshave with the bevel up would be a real trick. Oh, I don't know about that... all of my wooden shaves are bevel up.... Cheers, Dan ______________________ Daniel Miller Dragonfly Canoe Works North Greenbush, NY http://dragonflycanoe.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157943 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-09 08:34:23 Subject: Re: boiling oil I don't recall the magazine, but one of the woodworking magazines tested the resistance of a number of finishes to mold/mildew several years ago, and Boiled Linseed Oil did not do very well. The mold you see is most likely "eating" the oil in the finish, not the wood. As another listmember posted, Wood (lignin) is very hard to digest. I've seen what appears to be the same mold growing on shoes that were treated with oil for waterproofing. tim raleigh nc Ludo Angot Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/08/2006 10:23 PM To oldtools@r... cc Subject [OldTools] boiling oil Dear Galoots Some time ago, I decided I would try to oil my wooden planes. Following the example of a fellow woodworker, who was using camelia oil for the purpose, I decided to search for a local source of good camelia oil in Taiwan. I found it at a health food store. Pure comestible camelia oil (also called tea oil in chinese as it comes from tea tree nuts). I oiled 3 planes at first to see the result. They looked very nice. But after few month, mold started to appear. It was not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan or because I used comestible oil. So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? Another thing to know is that camelia is a common name, camelia japonica is not the same as camelia formosa for example. But I discovered it afterward... Ludo in Taiwan ___________________________________________________________________________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157944 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-09 08:13:04 Subject: RE: Plane Eating Molds Nathaniel--Thanks for the word on the mold issue. I am glad to know that my Linseed Oil is not destroying the wood. I know the benefits of the other finishing products on the market and the limitations of Linseed Oil , but I am absolutely addicted to the smell of Linseed Oil and a little Turpentine! I equate the smell with a finished project and it permeates the air, OK it's probably bad for you, but I love it anyway! I use it as a finish, but diluted a little more and I rub down furniture pieces with it that have oil finishes. Smells good, the wood looks good and if wiped more-or-less dry, it doesn't collect any more dust than anything else I've used. I appreciate your mycology? lesson. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of N.A. Mitkowski > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:32 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Plane Eating Molds > > It is unlikely that the mold (aka fungi) people have described > appearing on oil treated planes will not harm the plane. ... > > Nathaniel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157945 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-10 01:34:24 Subject: Re: boiling oil [alternative] Ludo Angot wrote: >Dear Galoots > >Some time ago, I decided I would try to oil my wooden planes. >Following the example of a fellow woodworker, who was using camelia >oil for the purpose, I decided to search for a local source of good >camelia oil in Taiwan. > >I found it at a health food store. Pure comestible camelia oil (also >called tea oil in chinese as it comes from tea tree nuts). I oiled 3 >planes at first to see the result. They looked very nice. > >But after few month, mold started to appear. It was not a lot, but was >visible. I sweep it with a coton cloth and since then it is fine. I'm >not sure whether it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan >or because I used comestible oil. > >So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? Can any vegetable oil >be boiled and used as a finish? > >Another thing to know is that camelia is a common name, camelia >japonica is not the same as camelia formosa for example. But I >discovered it afterward... > >Ludo in Taiwan > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________________- >_________ >Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les >tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. >Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > /Fellow Galoots , I have been using a product called FUNGISHEILD.(Feastwatson brand). The product is designed to seal the timber , and protect it from diseases such as mold. It has the consistentcy similar to Turpintine.It soaks into the timber nicely , including tight grained hardwoods. The main benefit I have found , deals with the use of waxes or polishes over timber work. Because the timber grain becomes fully sealed , wax or polish applications remain on the surface of the timber , and do not soak into it. I prefer this method to lacquer applications.It not only gives my work a high quality finish , it also takes less time to complete ,//as the Fungishield is ready for final coatings ( wax or polish ) after 12 hours. / / Regards Stewart./ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157946 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-09 09:54:12 Subject: Re: boiling oil-mold? Mildew? Fungusamungus? While mold/mildew/fungus has to this point not bothered any of my wooden tools, I have noticed that wooden furniture stored in one side of my shop has become covered with a very light covering of light grey/green/whitish stuff that I refer to as 'mildew'. I have no idea what 'mildew' actually is, or if this stuff is mildew, or is it mold, or what? Looking it up didn't clarify the issue very much. It appears that mold and mildew are not the same, but they are both fungi? I guess I'm interested in knowing the best way to get rid of the stuff (I try to keep a dehumidfier running), and if I wipe the stuff off, it comes back. mildew--a fungus that produces a superficial (usually white) growth on organic matter Mildew A common name for dark coloured molds which cause disfiguration and degradation. They can be found in interior (i.e. bathrooms) and exterior environments (i.e. tenting, awnings, painted siding). Mildew: A superficial coating or discoloration of organic materials caused by fungi, especially under damp conditions. Mildew is a grey, mold-like growth caused by one of two different types of micro-organisms. Mildew can thrive on any organic matter, not just living tissue, and can appear on clothing, leather, paper, and the ceilings, walls and floors of many homes. It often lives on shower walls. Molds A widespread group of fungi that are filamentous and reproduce by spore formation. They form hypha and mycelia. Molds are often found on wood, paper, cotton and other natural materials where they can cause degradation. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157947 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-09 08:13:01 Subject: Re: boiling oil Here in the States, I believe Tea Tree Oil and Camellia oil are two very different substances. I bought my camellia oil from the Japan Woodworker. It is a light oil with almost no odor at all and no effect on exposed skin. I bought my Tea Tree Oil at a health food store and it has a VERY strong odor and causes a burning sensation on the skin like liniment. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157948 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-03-09 09:26:38 Subject: FS: Wooden side rebate planes and a crispy moving So you say that cleaning up those undersized dados are driving you crazy? Have you been dreaming about a pair of elusive side rabbets from the old country? Well step right up and take a look, these babies are the real deal. No drooling please, as these have the original patina and are untouched. Yes sir, they are a matched pair of wooden skewed side rebate planes. The makers mark? AMESS BIRMm Where did I get them? From a little old man in Scotland. Only $100.00 Pictures available on request. I think that every full blooded galoot should have a moving fillister. What's that you say? Don't know what it is? Oooohhhh goes the assemblage, but here! here! Quiet down! This is simply a rabbet plane with a depth stop and a fence, making it one of the most used planes in your arsenal. What makes this plane excel is the spur(nicker) that scores the wood before the skewed blade wafts the gossamer shaving away, to gently float to the floor. The brass depth stop and fence with inlaid brass screw runners allows for perfectly controlling what you want to do. The dovetailed boxwood wear strip begs for lots of use. Let me see about the makers mark. . . Oh this only gets better. . . TABER PLANE CO. my all time favorite plane maker from New Bedford, MS. Patina and crispiness, and the blade is sharpened to shaving quality. Only $100.00 Pictures available on request. P.S. Why am I willing to part with these? Me son would like a little dingy to fish in, and he is worth it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157949 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-09 07:43:21 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Folks, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. It seems like we're talking past each other. I appreciate your lively defense of Brian Boggs' work, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that he is a fantastic artisan, a respectable toolmaker, and gifted educator. I also agree with you that it was very generous of Lie-Nielsen and Mr. Boggs to share segments of Brian's video with us for free. I am grateful to TWC for their work, and to Lie-Nielsen for their generosity. I also appreciate the fine folks who are offering their exceptional products on the porch. Whether they're offering old tools or new, they're a vital part of our community. I've learned a lot simply by reading peoples' for sale lists, and I've been the recipient of some fine tools, too. I hope they feel welcome to continue to offer those products to the Porch in the future, because I believe it is a healthy and positive aspect of this community. Respectfully, Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157950 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-09 11:54:59 Subject: Palette Wood We've just purchased some furniture for the office and some of it came on palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long with eight good boards on each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses construction-grade softwood, probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made up of six-foot, 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made specifically for this shipment. It is, however, very dry. Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these keepers or is palette wood more headache than it's worth? As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and appreciate any advice. Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157951 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-09 08:59:39 Subject: Tools Review Hi All, I received another tool review from our agent down under. Derek talks about LV-Veritas Low Angle Smoothing Plane. Links are available on www.OldToosShop.com and www.wkFineTools.com On Chris Pye's PDF files - I will temporarily take down Selecting and Sharpening V-tool.pdf file. Dr. Millrat discovered problem on some of the pages and now he is whipping me back to the drawing board. I will put it up as soon as I correct the problem. Still looking for new submissions for OldToolsShop.com. Regards, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157952 ---- From: "James Amrine Jr." Date: 2006-03-09 10:56:30 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Jim asks: ===================== Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these keepers or is palette wood more headache than it's worth? ===================== I know that a lot of amateur instrument builders use pallet wood when they find good specimens, and they are a fussier bunch about wood quality than furniture builders. I say go with it. -Jamey in Ann Arbor, where it is wet, but in a springtime-kind-of-way ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157953 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-09 11:03:41 Subject: RE: Palette Wood A place I worked many years ago imported office-size offset presses, which came on palettes that included 5/4 (or so) beech boards. You bet I used it, and still hoard some scraps. Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim McVicar > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:55 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Palette Wood > > > We've just purchased some furniture for the office and some > of it came on > palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long with eight > good boards on > each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses > construction-grade softwood, > probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made > up of six-foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots > and the boards > are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made > specifically for > this shipment. It is, however, very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are > these keepers or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > > As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and appreciate any advice. > > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157954 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-03-09 11:09:32 Subject: Hacksaws Hi, All I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of hacksaws. As a boy I used the hacksaw that my father had, a familiar type with a turned hsndle, parallel to the blade. I didn't like it then because small hands made it hard to feel in control. I don't like that style now, either, for the same reaon. When I was about ten, I persuaded my mother to give me a pistol-gripped one, which cost a quarter from Sears. I still have it and use it occasionally, although it is no longer my regular user. For awhile I had a RIGID, a strong tool but with an uncomfortable handle. Now my favorite is a PARKER, and I don't know if they are still available. It has a closed, plastic handle that feels just right. If you can find one, buy it, I say. For smaller work I use one that has a cast iron frame that takes 8" blades. I don't think that any like that are made anymore, but they are not uncommon at flea markets and yard sales. For blades, I like Starrett and Lenox. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157955 ---- From: "Clay Risenhoover" Date: 2006-03-09 10:07:03 Subject: RE: Palette Wood (Jim asked about the use of wood salvaged from pallets for woodworking...) Jim, My house has "engineered" oak flooring throughout. I milled all of my own thresholds and transition pieces from solid oak. Some of that oak came from old pallets and is really pretty wood. I say go for it. Beware, though, that the wood in the pallets was probably still in a tree just a few weeks ago, so it may still be a little wet. The stuff I used had been in the shop for a few years... -Clay ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157956 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-09 08:24:02 Subject: Re: Palette Wood I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The dimensions of the project were driven by the distance between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I can get some pictures tonight and post them. Roger --- Jim McVicar wrote: > > We've just purchased some furniture for the office > and some of it came on > palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long > with eight good boards on > each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses > construction-grade softwood, > probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, > is made up of six-foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or > knots and the boards > are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new > palette, made specifically for > this shipment. It is, however, very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak > boards. Are these keepers or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > > As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and > appreciate any advice. > > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157957 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-09 08:27:38 Subject: Re: Palette Wood get it, get it, get it. i imported a whole lotta south african vanagon parts in 2002-03, and am still using the tropical hardwood pallet wood for various things. i have also salvaged qs white oak of the size you're describing, and some oak main timbers that are probably red oak (stinky stuff!)...they're the ones that resist the tines of the forklift. so, yes, it's worth taking apart. superbar, gloves, claw hammer, sledge hammer, a six-pack of good beer, and two or three advil... best, bill felton, ca On Mar 9, 2006, at 7:54 AM, Jim McVicar wrote about some pallet wood: > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these > keepers or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157958 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-03-09 10:29:21 Subject: RE: Palette Wood I built a garden shed that was made from pallets and have also started on a tree house, in which the siding is long pallet wood. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157959 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-09 11:31:38 Subject: Obituary for a Galoot Gentle List, I was perusing the obituaries in our local paper the other day (I check occasionally to see if I've died) when I came across an entry that included, in part, the following. I thought it was a pretty wonderful remembrance and one that some of you might appreciate. "...Virgil was a husband, father, grandfather, great-grandfather and friend to all. He was a man of hands and heart. He had hand that could build anything from nothing and a heart that would give it all away. He built it all, from swing sets to dulcimers, boats to go-carts, cabins of cypress and contraptions of all kinds. He was always there to bait a hook, plant a garden, take you for a motorcycle ride or just fix what was broken. His hands were helping hands to all who needed him. Most of all he built a legacy of laughter and happiness for his family and friends..." I would like to have known him. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157960 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-09 08:43:26 Subject: Re: boiling oil Hey Ludo Whatever it's living on, if it's wet enough to grow mold on your plane bodies, rust is stirring and your blades are next on the menu! Try wood stove heat, air conditioner cold, air circulation, dehumidifier. Knock that water level down some, one way or another. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157961 ---- From: Christopher Swingley Date: 2006-03-09 07:54:08 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel GG's, * Col. Richard J. Hucker [2006-Mar-09 02:56 AKST]: > One more comment and then I'll crawl back under the porch. Some of our > highly regarded members of this list make and sell tools in this forum. > Any complaints? Note that this is an issue that was considered by those wise folk that started the List and wrote the FAQ [1]: XI. What is the policy on "For Sale" posts? Unlike most other lists, the OldTools charter expressly allows commercial postings by its members, with the stipulation that the sellers also participate in the group's discussions. In short, we don't mind if you sell old tools via the list, so long as you pass on your expertise with it. In our little corner of the world, we like to require some education as the "price" for the commercial. Cheers, Chris [1] A gripping tale, worthy of another careful read, and available at: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html -- Christopher S. Swingley University of Alaska Fairbanks cswingle@i... http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/ OldTools Searchable Archive: http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157962 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-09 08:59:57 Subject: Re: Obituary for a Galoot > I would like to have known him. This is the kind of person we all need in our lives. Thank you for sharing that obit. Humbling and challenging all at once. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157963 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-03-09 12:08:41 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Well, the one pallet I took apart a while ago was a pain in the butt joint. It used spiral shank nails that were in there real good and was hard to get apart without splitting the wood. I did get it apart finally and got some short pieces of wood out of it (a hard, nice looking tropical, which is why I bothered in the first place). There was also a lot of grit embedded in the bottom boards, though the top ones were okay. Another option is just saw through the boards right alongside of the nails and take things apart that way. I had to do this for a couple of the boards on my pallet. Sounds like yours has decent quality, though common, wood. It being newer, the nails are more likely to be easy to get out. I'd go for it 'cause I'm an inveterate scrounger. Worse case scenario is that you end up with a bunch of short boards. Well, I guess the worst case is that you have a bunch of good firewood. B^) Jim Foster Minnesota, and yes, I did try to use a good nail puller on those suckers. Some came out and some broke off. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made > up of six-foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots > and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new > palette, made specifically for this shipment. It is, however, > very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are > these keepers or is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157964 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-09 11:09:00 Subject: RE: camphor I've been using camphor for years, with no effects. The packages I got had about 1 oz cellophane wrapped. I cut an x into a side of the wrapping, and stuck them in the drawers, no problems. If a drawer is very tight, I get a bit of a smell when opened if not opened for a long time. But no big deal. I don't know if its stopped all rust, since I don't have a control test, but no rust in any of the drawers where I store chisels. Gary >Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who >recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the >rust demon >at bay? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157965 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-09 11:10:32 Subject: RE: Drawknife question >efficient use of space in one's toolbox. Plus which, the handles, >when folded, >protect both the cutting edge from nicks, and the proximate surfaces >from being >nicked by the cutting edge, when knocking about in said toolbox. Don't know about nicks on the blades, but it HELPS (doesn't cure) nicks on my knuckles! Gary Dr. Gary L. Yarrow, Director/RSO/CCHO General, Biological, Chemical and Radiation Safety Officer Environmental Health & Safety Office Shepard Hall 059; Box 2202 South Dakota State University Brookings, SD 57007-0896 www.sdstate.edu/Administration/EnvironmentalHealth&safety/ Office: 605-688-4264 Cell: 605-690-8397 Fax: 605-688-4290 "The Job Isn't Done Right, UNLESS its Done Safely" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157966 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-09 09:09:30 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I think we all do agree, really. Which is better, an erergetic kindly sympathetic hooker or a toothless emaciated slut getting thinner as time go on? What we're all looking for is the middle ground between K-mart pink and yellow plastic, total commercial hype. And the starving artist who can't pay their bills (me forinstance). If people go for the hype, then hype will win. Less work, more money. Only if they go out of their way to support the artist on purpose, will art survive. Traditionally, hype wins out. Your call. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157967 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-09 12:18:38 Subject: RE: Obituary for a Galoot Better than knowing him - cool as that would have been - would be to be remembered in a similar way. Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Mike Wenzloff > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:00 PM > To: Sgt42RHR@a...; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Obituary for a Galoot > > > I would like to have known him. > > This is the kind of person we all need in our lives. Thank you for > sharing that obit. > > Humbling and challenging all at once. > > Take care, Mike > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157968 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 09:22:46 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Wednesday 08 March 2006 07:19 pm, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear > opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to > come from for work of many people putting very often superb > information on the net. > > From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some > Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. > > Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of > cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there > are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. Not single'n out Wiktor's comments specific, there was a lot of folks putting their opinions in the ring about the internet. I don't care how you look at it, wether things are free that you used to pay for, or if folks should be charging you for what you can get, but the internet is changing things in a big way. Trying to charge folks for a service is the model to be used, but many have folded trying to charge for it. It's not quite so easy when others do offer something for free. During the dot-bomb era, folks were scramblin' to the net for the "gold-rush", and everyone was under the impression that if you just put a little 'i' or a little 'e' in your name, your were automagically a part of the eCommerce phoenomina that was taking place (and could get VC funding, which was spent foolishly in most cases;-). The idea of centralizing or de-centralizing information is looked at differently by different folks (as witnessed here on the porch), and from my view it gets down to the person who owns the data having the right to distribute their data as they see fit. Wether they offer it for free or not, is completely up to them. If advertising bothers you on a free video stream, its' simple, don't watch it. If you feel there is value in it and it doesn't bother you, by all means feel free to watch and absorb the information being shared, this is the very reason it was put on the web to share. It's the free information that has changed and is changing the way we do things. Still, many folks think there's a gold rush out there on the internet, and there is for some. Those some are the folks that can figure out how to pan for gold and be fortunate to create a business model that works. The rest of us can participate and share our data for free to try and help others. I commend all who offer information for free, it's the sharing of information available that help folks do things. Wether it's Boggs helping folks learn how to use a drawknife, or if it's scottg, bugbear, the millrat, or royg, or anyone else...thanks for those that have offered information for free, wether it is centralized or de-centralized. It's there for folks to use as a resource. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157969 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-09 12:23:28 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel > scott grandstaff > I think we all do agree, really. > Which is better, an erergetic kindly sympathetic hooker or a > toothless > emaciated slut getting thinner as time go on? Is there some OT content there? :-) Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157970 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 09:29:34 Subject: Re: Palette Wood On Thursday 09 March 2006 07:54 am, Jim McVicar wrote: > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made up of > six-foot, 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots and > the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made > specifically for this shipment. It is, however, very dry. I believe the latest Woodworker's Journal had an article on using palette wood for projects as a cheap alterntive to purchasing expensive lumber. It basically said it's a great source for wood, but you need to make sure that it is completely dry as it will warp and twist badly if not. They suggested stickering and making sure the wood content was dry before doing anything with them. I've used some palette wood for various things, the 4x4s come in handy, even the short ones. Lots of nails and/or screws in the palettes though, so you need to be careful as that metal will take a toll on edge tools.DAMHIKT! -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157971 ---- From: Peter Hahn Date: 2006-03-09 12:35:04 Subject: Re: boiling oil-mold? Mildew? Fungusamungus? I studied fungi a lot when I was a graduate student. Molds - mildews - mushrooms - toadstools - all common names for different forms of the very large fungi world. They are considered neither animals or plants. They generally grow as mycelium - filamentous microscopic forms (molds and mildews are terms that probably refer to this form of growth) - and occasionally form spores -either asexual e.g. the blue stuff on bread or in food left in the refrigerator - or sexual forms e.g. mushrooms/toadstools. The fungi play a major role recycling plant debris (including both wood and plant oils) and occasionally rotting wood in your house if it is wet. (also spalted wood) Fungi will also digest the oils in stains/sealers used to protect wood siding on houses which is why you have to re-oil treat your siding every few years. The majority of agricultural plant diseases are caused by Fungi. There are zillions of different kinds of them. They make up a big part of the soil. The key to preserving things from them is to keep things dry. There are lots of fungicides also. Peter Hahn On Mar 9, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > While mold/mildew/fungus has to this point not bothered any of my > wooden > tools, I have noticed that wooden furniture stored in one side of > my shop has > become covered with a very light covering of light grey/green/ > whitish stuff that > I refer to as 'mildew'. I have no idea what 'mildew' actually is, > or if > this stuff is mildew, or is it mold, or what? Looking it up didn't > clarify the > issue very much. It appears that mold and mildew are not the same, > but they > are both fungi? I guess I'm interested in knowing the best way to > get rid > of the stuff (I try to keep a dehumidfier running), and if I wipe > the stuff > off, it comes back. > > mildew--a fungus that produces a superficial (usually white) growth on > organic matter > > Mildew A common name for dark coloured molds which cause > disfiguration and > degradation. They can be found in interior (i.e. bathrooms) and > exterior > environments (i.e. tenting, awnings, painted siding). > > Mildew: A superficial coating or discoloration of organic materials > caused > by fungi, especially under damp conditions. > > Mildew is a grey, mold-like growth caused by one of two different > types of > micro-organisms. Mildew can thrive on any organic matter, not just > living > tissue, and can appear on clothing, leather, paper, and the > ceilings, walls and > floors of many homes. It often lives on shower walls. > > Molds A widespread group of fungi that are filamentous and > reproduce by > spore formation. They form hypha and mycelia. Molds are often found > on wood, > paper, cotton and other natural materials where they can cause > degradation. > > Cheers, > John > > John M. Johnston > 42d Grenr. Compy. > There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157972 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-09 12:41:29 Subject: Re: Drawknife question Plus which, the handles, >when folded, protect both the cutting edge from nicks, and the proximate surfaces >from being >nicked by the cutting edge, when knocking about in said toolbox. Don't know about nicks on the blades, but it HELPS (doesn't cure) nicks on my knuckles! While we are on the subject of drawknives, I learned a lesson last night. When you are working on the shave pony, sitting on a stool in front of it, rounding a Maple lathe blank with the drawknife, resist the temptation to work down both sides of the blank. Its is better to turn the blank in the shave pony, and keep your knife blade relativly horizontal, than it is to tilt your drawknive almost to vertical, and smack yourself between the lower extremiities when a big chip comes loose. You don't have to ask how I know this. Michael-San Francisco, Trying to keep the dumbest of the dumb moves to a single occurance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157973 ---- From: Douglas Hanson Date: 2006-03-09 09:45:47 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Well I for one am glad to hear this subject being discussed, I recently acquired a recurring source for a rather substaitial amount of these in addition to actual full crates that heavey equipment peices are shipped overseas on and am planning on using them to construct a shop with, any comments and or suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. regards Doug in S. E. Ga --- "Foster, Jim" wrote: > > Well, the one pallet I took apart a while ago was a > pain in the > butt joint. It used spiral shank nails that were in > there > real good and was hard to get apart without > splitting the > wood. I did get it apart finally and got some short > pieces of > wood out of it (a hard, nice looking tropical, which > is why > I bothered in the first place). There was also a lot > of grit > embedded in the bottom boards, though the top ones > were okay. > Another option is just saw through the boards right > alongside > of the nails and take things apart that way. I had > to do this > for a couple of the boards on my pallet. Sounds like > yours has > decent quality, though common, wood. It being newer, > the nails > are more likely to be easy to get out. I'd go for it > 'cause I'm > an inveterate scrounger. Worse case scenario is that > you end up > with a bunch of short boards. Well, I guess the > worst case is that > you have a bunch of good firewood. B^) > > Jim Foster > Minnesota, and yes, I did try to use a good nail > puller on those > suckers. Some came out and some broke off. > > > > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon > inspection, is made > > up of six-foot, > > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits > or knots > > and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this > is a new > > palette, made specifically for this shipment. It > is, however, > > very dry. > > > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak > boards. Are > > these keepers or is palette wood more headache > than it's worth? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157974 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-09 11:58:04 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Jim & GGs--I always look through any pile that says free pallets or free firewood. A few years ago I helped an old friend install some furniture he had ordered from Thailand. Believe it or not, it was crated in Teak wood! My heart went pitter-pat and I brought all of it home, pulled the nails and ran it through a tailed apprentice. It was hard as h*ll, but not a knot in the lot. One man's junk is still another man's treasure! Go fer it! Pallet wood may be free, but it ain't easy. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Jim McVicar > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:55 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Palette Wood > > > We've just purchased some furniture for the office and some of it came on > palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long with eight good boards > on > each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses construction-grade > softwood, > probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made up of six- > foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots and the boards > are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made specifically > for > this shipment. It is, however, very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these keepers > or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > > As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and appreciate any advice. > > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157975 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-03-09 13:14:36 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Well, if you want to know about pallet wood, just search the archives for 'pallet'--mebbe a hundred hits. Including a classic Stephen LaManchia comment, " If you have received complaints from your neighbors regarding the stack of pallets in your front yard, you may be a Galoot.." Sandy Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm >From: Douglas Hanson >To: "Foster, Jim" , oldtools@r... >Subject: RE: [OldTools] Palette Wood >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) > >Well I for one am glad to hear this subject being >discussed, I recently acquired a recurring source for >a rather substaitial amount of these in addition to >actual full crates that heavey equipment peices are >shipped overseas on and am planning on using them to >construct a shop with, > any comments and or suggestions are welcomed and >appreciated. >regards >Doug >in S. E. Ga > >--- "Foster, Jim" wrote: > > > > > Well, the one pallet I took apart a while ago was a > > pain in the > > butt joint. It used spiral shank nails that were in > > there > > real good and was hard to get apart without > > splitting the > > wood. I did get it apart finally and got some short > > pieces of > > wood out of it (a hard, nice looking tropical, which > > is why > > I bothered in the first place). There was also a lot > > of grit > > embedded in the bottom boards, though the top ones > > were okay. > > Another option is just saw through the boards right > > alongside > > of the nails and take things apart that way. I had > > to do this > > for a couple of the boards on my pallet. Sounds like > > yours has > > decent quality, though common, wood. It being newer, > > the nails > > are more likely to be easy to get out. I'd go for it > > 'cause I'm > > an inveterate scrounger. Worse case scenario is that > > you end up > > with a bunch of short boards. Well, I guess the > > worst case is that > > you have a bunch of good firewood. B^) > > > > Jim Foster > > Minnesota, and yes, I did try to use a good nail > > puller on those > > suckers. Some came out and some broke off. > > > > > > > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon > > inspection, is made > > > up of six-foot, > > > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits > > or knots > > > and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this > > is a new > > > palette, made specifically for this shipment. It > > is, however, > > > very dry. > > > > > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak > > boards. Are > > > these keepers or is palette wood more headache > > than it's worth? > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > > of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > > the history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > > restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157976 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-03-09 13:18:58 Subject: A footnote on making carving mallets ("Millrat Specials") GGs, While making my 3rd batch of Jim's carving mallets (thanks again for the tutorials, Jim), I discovered I'd inadvertently turned the mallet heads too small for the job as the 2" ABS plastic slid onto the heads very easily when I heated the PVC. I initially attributed this to me incorrectly measuring the ID of the pipe, perhaps due to the fact it was a balmy 12 deg F in my shop when I whipped out the calipers, or perhaps the very cold plastic contracted so much that I got a false measurement. So when the temp went to something resembling "normal", the plastic expanded, making for a loose fit. That was several weeks ago. Fast-forward to 30 minutes ago: I just slid one of the oversized plastic tubes off my mallet, and just for yucks tried to stick the mallet into another piece of plastic from the very same 10' section of pipe. The head is too large to go in w/o heating the plastic, and it feels like it'll be a darn tight fit (i.e., perfect). This leads me to believe that the inner diameter of a plastic pipe can vary radically, and it's best to take a different measure for each mallet. I post this in hopes of preventing others from making the same mistake. Steve in Howell, NJ where the weather is beautimus! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157977 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-09 12:25:17 Subject: Cheap/free wood...pallet wood Since discussing pallet wood, i.e., cheap wood (wouldn't really call it free, you have lots of time in it). Another place that I have found to have cheap wood, is old dressers, other furniture, etc. The ones that are beyond hope, not of any real significance (not built really well), etc. The drawers of a lot of these old things are commonly made from oak, maple or poplar, and if the drawers you're making are smaller, well Bob's your uncle. I started buying some of those $5 chest of drawers at auctions and have reused a lot of this wood. Really started this after a class with Alan Peters who said that much of his drawers are from reclaimed wood "They've moved and twisted and shrunk all they are going to". He still planed on some movement, but its been minimalized over the years. Works very well. BTW, I got the video from Rob Cosman that has discussions with Alan Peters. Unfortunately, after seeing the DVD and emailing with Cosman, its obvious that Peters is suffering the ravages of age, including various medical conditions. Peters was/is one of the great designers and builders of our time, but it won't be long before we lose that piece of furniture making history. Although I didn't think he was a very good teacher, his work was/is superb, watching him cut dovetails, well, you knew that it was an art as well as a science. One thing that he still does, which is interesting to watch, is his hands are constantly touching, feeling, almost caressing wood that he is working on. Always checking for imperfections and that pleasant tactile sense of wood. He is unable to build things anymore, but according to Cosman, he still has a lot of ideas. Gary Gary Yarrow Two Herbs Workshop 819 Harvey Dunn St. Brookings, SD 57006-0896 www.twoherbs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157978 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 11:05:36 Subject: Re: Cheap/free wood...pallet wood On Thursday 09 March 2006 10:25 am, Yarrow, Gary wrote: > BTW, I got the video from Rob Cosman that has discussions with Alan > Peters. Unfortunately, after seeing the DVD and emailing with Cosman, > its obvious that Peters is suffering the ravages of age, including > various medical conditions. I agree, I just got the video recentely. At 72 years old, he can still cut the dovetails to the line though! The last scene with the gallery of his work shows some very tasty pieces. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157979 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-09 15:09:13 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I watched the drawknife video and I didn't get that impression at all. However, I know what you mean. I watch a lot of the car oriented shows and they're always promoting various products. Wendy On Thursday 09 March 2006 01:24 am, Alex Moseley wrote: > > My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was that the > knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back seat to L-N's > advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. I don't think I'm > the first person to wince at the way L-N videos blur the line between > education and marketing, either. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157980 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-09 12:21:33 Subject: Re: camphor --- Phil E. asked: > Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working > out As Gary stated before me, I too have used camphor blocks for several years and I believe that they work, but I've never performed a controlled test. But, FWIW, I have cannot recall a new major rust problem since I have been using them – but I'm sure that they're not a cure all - just one line of defense. As for the Vicks Salve odor (nasal decongestant - Jeff), I find it somewhat pleasant and have begun to associate it positively with the other smells and odors in the workshop. Besides, once you've permeated the inside of a cabinet with it, you know when you've left a drawer or door open! Steve in Dallas Who has not had a stopped up nose while working in the shop in a long time. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157981 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-09 15:39:57 Subject: Re: Palette Wood At 11:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple >or maybe alder. More than a few years ago I had a source of pallet wood. There was a run of it for a while that was cherry. Also saw some walnut and maple. Matter of fact, I was using a number of the cherry boards as tool tables at outdoor events. At one of the CRAFT's picnics, one of the original NJ Galoots, saw my boards and asked how much I wanted for some. I said I'd give him a few after selling was done. Still got some of that stuff SOMEPLACE. The place where he was getting them from is just down the road from me and they have a big pile of free pallets for firewood. I ain't had a chance to stop to see if there is anything worthwhile there. I also remember that for a while some of the Honda and Yamaha motorcycle crates were coming over with mahogany and other exotics. Tony (whose workbench top is made from oak beams destined for pallet runners) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157982 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-10 07:22:58 Subject: Re: boiling oil Blake, that strong smelling Tea Tree Oil is most likely the oil of an Australian native Melaleuca (Ti Tree). It is a natural disinfectant, particularly useful for skin irritations and fungal infections like athlete's foot. You might be onto something here :-) Blake Ashley wrote: > Here in the States, I believe Tea Tree Oil and Camellia oil are two > very different substances. > I bought my Tea Tree Oil at a health food store and it > has a VERY strong odor and causes a burning sensation on the skin like > liniment. > > Blake -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157983 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-09 17:08:02 Subject: My Next Learning Project Having reached my goals for now at woodturning it's time for a little cleanup and on to the next goal. Over the next couple of weeks I am going to learn how to sharpen a handsaw. To date I have been sending saws out to be sharpened and the guy that has been doing them does a fantastic job. However, sharpening ones own tools is a must. When a chisel gets dull you don't quit chiseling and send it out for sharpening. The same principle applies to handsaws. If anyone is interested I will keep the list informed and post pics on my website. Just let me know. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157984 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-10 06:04:17 Subject: Re: Camphor blocks and rust Phil wrote in part: Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon at bay? PeterH chips in: I can categorically say that little has rusted in the entire home of my elderly MIL. And as for the smell, when the missus & I go visit, I prefer to sit outside near the back corner of the fence. The corner selected depending on wind direction. BTW, has any-one else experienced watery eyes and a choking sensation when sat in a room surrounded by concentrated camphor? ;^) OT content: no rust. PeterH in Perth anonymous silverfish breeder ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157985 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-09 16:35:37 Subject: RE: My Next Learning Project Bill said: To date I have been sending saws out to be sharpened and the guy that has been doing them does a fantastic job. However, sharpening ones own tools is a must. When a chisel gets dull you don't quit chiseling and send it out for sharpening. The same principle applies to handsaws. Rob mentioned: The good news is that it's in fact easier do a good job sharpening a saw than to do a good job sharpening a chisel. Well, let me qualify that. Sharpening a saw with decent saw vice and an aid to measure the fleam and rake is about the same difficulty (but not level of effort) as sharpening a chisel with a good honing guide. YMMV, but I can more easily sharpen saws well than chisels... Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie www.jlatech.com/rob/Woodworking/Knowledge%20Base.htm Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157986 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-09 14:39:49 Subject: From one body to another Gentle Galoots, I have 2 questions. First, I'm busy fitting the brass sides to the iron sole on my little dovetailed infill and on the first side I've got it halfway meshed together. It looks like I could knock it together without further work, but should I? It seems silly to file it down so it fits by hand pressure alone and then go and peen it together anyway. So my question is, force or file? Second, I'm attempting to fix a rusted-out hole in my car's body and I was wondering what tools the Modern Galoot has at his disposal for this task. Any and all help would be appreciated (off-list probably??), I'm thinking specifically about cutting the metal away and then how to hide the riveting.. Don't make me use my angle grinder! :> My best to all, Adriaan Ps: Pass the spittoon, not sure question 2 is on topic.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157987 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-09 16:40:37 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel GG, Alan, thank you for the mention. As I've said before, this is a hobby for me so I don't expect to make money on my woodworking or the things I do to put on OTS and WKFineTools. However I understand the need to make a living for those to whom this is a vocation. Basically my sentiments are "If I gotta watch commercials then I'd rather watch tool commercials." Now if they start advertising cars, hair growth formula's (too late for me) or female hygene products, I probably won't watch anymore... As it is now I'm looking forward to being able to see demo's, people, tools, and techniques that I haven't seen before. Their success can only improve the hobby and I for one wish them all the luck in the world. But I still can't afford L_N tools...so I'll just have to get out the lobster bib and dream of all those purty tools. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157988 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-09 18:03:35 Subject: Re: Hacksaws Trevor Robinson wrote: > Hi, All > I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of > hacksaws. Well I have a hacksaw question. I know that Millers Falls produced a line of tools with red plastic handles and that the ones with the clear handles seem to be more uppity than the ones without. Yesterday i picked up a M-f #84 hacksaw with a clear red handle. Is this thing worth any more than just being a hacksaw? Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157989 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-09 18:27:00 Subject: Re: camphor Gary related .... > I've been using camphor for years, with no effects. > The packages I got > had about 1 oz cellophane wrapped. After our little deescussion a while back, I bought a box of 128 of these lozenge sized blocks and popped a few of them out of their wrappers and into various drawers and storage spots. The odor upon opening drawers dissipates fairly quickly, and as yet I've seen no rust appearing where it was appearing only a few months before. The real test will be summer, when the dehumidifier works yeoman duty given our delightful June-August climate (at least I have a new dehumidifier provided at no charge per warranty since the old one seized its compressor in January and was dragged by its tail back to the store from which it came). The camphor blocks seemed to be relatively cheap extra insurance if they work, and $18 bought what has to be a good 5 yrs supply delivered to my mailbox. According to the instructions, I should also have a shop free of moths and silverfish, although I haven't had much concern about those in a long time. Wonder if this stuff also does the job on powder post beetles? Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157990 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-10 00:52:42 Subject: Re: boiling oil Blake Ashley wrote : > > Here in the States, I believe Tea Tree Oil and Camellia oil are two > very different substances. I bought my camellia oil from the Japan > Woodworker. It is a light oil with almost no odor at all and no effect > on exposed skin. I bought my Tea Tree Oil at a health food store and > it has a VERY strong odor and causes a burning sensation on the skin > like liniment. Blake, Tea tree oil (I suppose you are talking about essential oil) is the common name for "melaleuca alternifolia" oil, it is excellent for skin care and has antioxydant and antiseptic properties. Now I may be wrong and you were really talking about tea oil (as oily as sunflower oil or other vegetable oil). The tea oil I was mentioning comes from the actual tea tree, the one we can drink instead of coffee. It is the "camellia sinsensis". And from "camellia sinensis" to "camellia japonica" it was easy to make the mistake as they are both called camellia oil and in chinese and japanese they are written the same! Ludo in Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157991 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-10 01:01:20 Subject: Re: boiling oil [alternative] Stewart wrote: > /Fellow Galoots , I have been using a product called > > FUNGISHEILD.(Feastwatson brand). > > The product is designed to seal the timber , and protect it from > diseases such as mold. Hi Stewart, Fungishield may be a good idea for timber used outside a living environment, but I had the feeling it might not be 100% natural. I searched for more information on the product and found this: http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-cds-010- 000000003471.pdf The major ingredient is turpentine, but contains hazardous elements. Well, I'd rather not use it on my planes! So be carefull when you use the product. Ludo, Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157992 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-09 19:08:09 Subject: Re: Hacksaws I've got a question for the assembled galooterati, Who made the large cast framed hacksaw, like a hacksaw miterbox. Complete with a vise in the base. I've seen this tool once, but didn't make note of who made it. TIA, Michael -----Original Message----- From: Michele Minch To: oldtools digest recipients Sent: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:03:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hacksaws Trevor Robinson wrote: > Hi, All > I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of > hacksaws. Well I have a hacksaw question. I know that Millers Falls produced a line of tools with red plastic handles and that the ones with the clear handles seem to be more uppity than the ones without. Yesterday i picked up a M-f #84 hacksaw with a clear red handle. Is this thing worth any more than just being a hacksaw? Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. To read the FAQ: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157993 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-10 01:12:16 Subject: RE: boiling oil John and Paul, I didn't know neither about addding kerosene. Now I understand why some of my planes that I recently got from Japan had a strong smell of this fuel! However the planes didn't seem to have been oiled, so the kerosene might have been applied pure. In Japan humidity is very high also. Have any of you experienced adding essential oil to a vegetable oil for wood treatment? I have some ideas: some essential oil have antifungic properties if I'm not wrong. I'll check some literature about essential oil. It would make it safe for food contact (providing you use organic essential oil, they can be injested. But in minute quantities!), or for use with baby toys. Ludo, Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157994 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-09 19:57:16 Subject: (no subject) Subject: [OldTools] Hacksaws To: oldtools@r... Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Hi, All I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of >hacksaws. As a boy I used the hacksaw that my father had, a familiar >type with a turned hsndle, parallel to the blade. I didn't like it then >because small hands made it hard to feel in control. I don't like that >style now, either, for the same reaon. When I was about ten, I >persuaded my mother to give me a pistol-gripped one, which cost a >quarter from Sears. I still have it and use it occasionally, although >it is no longer my regular user. For awhile I had a RIGID, a strong >tool but with an uncomfortable handle. Now my favorite is a PARKER, and >I don't know if they are still available. It has a closed, plastic >handle that feels just right. If you can find one, buy it, I say. For >smaller work I use one that has a cast iron frame that takes 8" blades. >I don't think that any like that are made anymore, but they are not >uncommon at flea markets and yard sales. For blades, I like Starrett >and Lenox. Trevor Parker made hacksaw blades for many years in Worcester, Massachusetts, before selling the business to Stanley in the late '80's. Known for about 8 more years as Stanley Parker, they finally were closed and absorbed into Stanley. Parker made the blades, but bought the handles from another manufacturer (which is quite common still in the industry). Starrett and Lenox blades??? Yikes, pu-lease!!! Of course, as an employee of Simonds, I would say that!!! Lenox blades are very good - equal to Simonds quality! Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157995 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-03-09 20:00:36 Subject: RE: Re: Camphor blocks and rust I've been using Camphor for years and haven't any problems with rust. The smell disipates quickly after I've opened the door and entered the shop. My shop space is small right now 12x16 and I have probably 20 blocks out. My shop is a metal building with paneling on the inside and in the winter it can get moist in there. I also wax a lot of my tools for this reason also. When I was in the Military I was a Chemical Specialist and when we ran the CS(Gas) chamber we use to use camphor afterwards to help clear up and clear out the choking agent. It worked great and is where I learned it's effects on steel as an inhibitor. Brian McInturff in Myrtle Beach philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Peter Huisman > To: ; > Date: 3/10/2006 9:07:51 AM > Subject: [OldTools] Re: Camphor blocks and rust > > Phil wrote in part: > > Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who > recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon > at bay? > > PeterH chips in: > > I can categorically say that little has rusted in the entire home of > my elderly MIL. And as for the smell, when the missus & I go visit, > I prefer to sit outside near the back corner of the fence. The corner > selected depending on wind direction. > > BTW, has any-one else experienced watery eyes and a choking sensation > when sat in a room surrounded by concentrated camphor? ;^) > > OT content: no rust. > > PeterH in Perth > anonymous silverfish breeder > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157996 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-10 12:21:27 Subject: Re: Plane Eating Molds Hi All, A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and water solution. About 8 parts water to 1 part white vinegar is about right. Cheap, effective and non toxic. Not sure what the effect on wooden items would be. Peter B, Australia N.A. Mitkowski wrote: > It is unlikely that the mold (aka fungi) people have described > appearing on oil treated planes will not harm the plane > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157997 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-09 20:39:31 Subject: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) Fellow Galoots I think that there are two different classes involved in this issue. There are some wonderful people Wictor and Ken Greenberg are two who are willing to host sites to post hard won knowledge ( paid for in blood by those of us who are terminally clumsy) who are willing to share with whoever wishes. The other class are the wonderful people who make wonderful great quality and tools. If they go out of business so will we. Those of us carrying AARP cards don't have to worry but ever day more of the old tool are broken or destroyed or PAINTED ( I hate painted saws).Our kids or grandkids are going to have to find other tools to do what we do. If I have to watch an infomercial to keep Tom Lie-Neilson in business. I may never have the spare money to have one but the fact that he make them insures that this hobby will continue after all the Stanley's are destroyed or in museums. I will now get off my soap box and go back to a new book on making workbenches I found in the library Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157998 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-09 21:01:43 Subject: Re: Plane Eating Molds Yes, the acetic acid in vinegar will inhibit fungi. I have used a number of organic acids to knock down fungal and nematode pathogens experimentally in agricultural soils. They very much dislike low pH. But as with most solutions, it may only be temporary. The acid will eventually break down, volatilize or be absorbed into the wood where it is likely to bind and/or react with organic molecules and become inactive. Peroxide is another pretty inexpensive and safe option but I am not sure what it would do to the wood. If fungi are coming back repeatedly because they have penetrated into the wood, these treatments may provide some extended relief. If the fungi are truly superficial and coming back because of the humidity, they won't have much affect in the long term. Some have mentioned fungicides and they do work, but a plane is a bad place to apply them. Fungicides are poisons and it would be unwise to lather a tool in such chemicals and then handle the tool, as you would very likely absorb or ingest a good bit of it. I'm with Scott on this one, I would be a lot more concerned about rust development than those friendly fungi. You'll never get rid of the fungi, they are floating around everywhere and will be around long after we have gone, thank goodness! Now if you decide to store your planes in a puddle on the basement floor, then you are definitely going to see structural fungal attack. But high humidity in the absence of free water is unlikely to allow things to get that far. Dropping the moisture will certainly slow down the superficial organisms. As for the terms mold and mildew, they are really very generic in meaning and can change depending upon your context. They don't really describe a taxonomic group of organisms, just some general morphology or symptoms and I don't use either term if I can help it. Best to just stick with the words fungi or fungus. Nathaniel >Hi All, > >A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and >water solution. >About 8 parts water to 1 part white vinegar is about right. >Cheap, effective and non toxic. >Not sure what the effect on wooden items would be. > >Peter B, Australia > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157999 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-09 18:09:06 Subject: Today's estate sale in Santa Ana This one sucked pretty bad. It was advertised saying, " tons of old hand tools." Well, I guess there were, but most of it was dreck, old tire irons, a million rusty Taiwanese screwdrivers and hammers, 3 wrecked hand saws. I found 2 intact Stanley block planes that I didn't need, 3 Forstner bits, and a 16" long perfect handle screwdriver. I didn't have one that big. There were some rusty taper shank auger bits, but they looked too tired for me. That's it. Spent $10, and if I hadn't traveled all the way from Riverside in nasty traffic, I wouldn't have bought anything. You just can't go home empty handed. At least my buddy who was driving had a transponder for the toll lanes, so that helped speed the trip. We stopped at what used to be Rockler in Orange, but they have moved from that location. Took us 15 minutes to get back on the freeway. I gave Paddy a heads up on this one, but he said he couldn't make it. You done good not coming, Paddy! It wasn't worth the effort. But you lose a few, then lose a few more. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158000 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-09 19:18:38 Subject: RE: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) Well... Looks like you guys are all too comfortable here... I don't know about Ken, but I might begin charging for all the work... ;-)... Unless you start sending some articles and other items to post on OldToolsShop. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Lineback > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:40 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Old Tool and advertising was (The > Woodworking Channel) > > Fellow Galoots > I think that there are two different classes involved in this > issue. There are some wonderful people Wictor and Ken > Greenberg are two who are willing to host sites to post hard > won knowledge ( paid for in blood by those of us who are > terminally clumsy) who are willing to share with whoever > wishes. The other class are the wonderful people who make > wonderful great quality and tools. If they go out of business > so will we. > Those of us carrying AARP cards don't have to worry but ever > day more of the old tool are broken or destroyed or PAINTED ( > I hate painted saws).Our kids or grandkids are going to have > to find other tools to do what we do. If I have to watch an > infomercial to keep Tom Lie-Neilson in business. I may never > have the spare money to have one but the fact that he make > them insures that this hobby will continue after all the > Stanley's are destroyed or in museums. > I will now get off my soap box and go back to a new book on > making workbenches I found in the library Steve > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158001 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-10 02:14:13 Subject: Re: hacksaws The maker of the framed hacksaw (like a miterbox) was Goodell-Pratt. You can see the catalog info here: http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id75.html Wayne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158002 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-09 21:20:29 Subject: Re: Plane Eating Molds At 08:21 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >Hi All, > >A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and >water solution. What works for me is good old mineral spirits or turpentine. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158003 ---- From: r.roeder@m... Date: 2006-03-10 04:20:05 Subject: Online gallery of Millers Falls plant Hi all, In 1975, Millers Falls Company president Jim Mitchell had his son Monty take a series of 50 photos showing the delapidated condition of the plant in Greenfield. He had the photos taken to convince Ingersoll-Rand corporate headquarters that a new facility needed to be built. I've put together a gallery of 18 of the more interesting images and added it to the pages for Millers Falls collectors. The page has 18 clickable thumbnails. If you're interested go to: http://oldtoolheaven.com/history/plantgallery.htm Just a reminder, the old site at coe.edu is sadly out of date--they haven't gotten around to getting it down yet. Randy Roeder Repaint houses, not old tools. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158004 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 20:40:25 Subject: Re: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Thursday 09 March 2006 02:40 pm, roygriggs@v... wrote: > Alan, thank you for the mention. As I've said before, this is a hobby for > me so I don't expect to make money on my woodworking or the things I do > to put on OTS and WKFineTools. However I understand the need to make a > living for those to whom this is a vocation. Right, exactly my point. The folks that whom it is a vocation are threatened by the little hobbyist like you. The internet is the equalizer. You have some great info that you share, as do many other galoots on the porch, and this very existence threatens the big guys. All through our lives, we've been controlled by the "big guy" who could afford to advertise, be it on tv, radio, publications, magazines, etc...who controls the copyrights and ownership of data.... Now, a group of galoots on the porch, helping each other, sharing ideas and information for free. In many cases sharing tools, materials, ideas on how to solve a problem...Does this fly in the face of the large woodworking affiliations? Sure, but at the same time we like many of them also... > Basically my sentiments are "If I gotta watch commercials then I'd rather > watch tool commercials." My sentiments are that if it's free, you can't say it's not worth what you paid for it. If it bothers folks that some would put advertising on their streaming media, simple, create your own media that doesn't have any advertising. There's an idea for Wiktor possibly, to have a streaming server for the porch. Would that threaten folks like LN who produce videos now? Although I don't think it would effect their sales much, it would still threaten them. > But > I still can't afford L_N tools...so I'll just have to get out the lobster > bib and dream of all those purty tools. Does it matter? You have your share of tools Roy!;-) I have a couple LN tools. Good stuff. I've bought videos from them also, they're prompt. They sell quality tools. LV does as well (gotta love their vises, hand planes, other specialty items...). My problem is I like new tools also. Not sure I like either old or new any better than the other, I can appreciate a fine tool no matter what the age. Ain't nothing wrong with old tools... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158005 ---- From: Mme4u2meh@a... Date: 2006-03-10 00:19:28 Subject: Re: pallatte wood and bio update (Steve Kumpf) Hey, guys, long time no talk. Just a quick thought. Remember that someone thought it was pallet wood for a reason. I can't say anything for the guy or girl or computer who made the decision though. I've been taking a break from the galooting for a while to save money and to pick the guitar back up after 4 years. Before that I had been playing for ten years. I am now obsessed with gaining back my skill. I am also working for a G. C. doing McDonalds and Wendy's remodels and new stores. I do all the interior finish work. I'm diggin' this working for someone else thing right now. I'm able to save quite a bit every week and my stress has gone way down. I think I'm going to ride this wave for a while. Feeling great right now. Steve Kumpf Philadelphia PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158006 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-10 18:37:59 Subject: Re: boiling oil Paul Schobernd writes: > John & Ludo--I have only used boiled Linseed Oil and have never heard of > adding kerosene! That is a new recipe, at least for me. I normally cut > mine with Turpentine or sometimes plain old mineral spirits. Does the smell > of the Kerosene dissipate fairly quickly? IME Kerosene takes forever to stop > off-gassing! DAMHINT, but it involved a vehicle and a can in the trunk/boot. I take it that the "N" in "DAMHINT" stands for "Nose"? Turps seems a lot more volatile than kero but one would think that mould ... err ... fungus would not have too pleasant a time of it whilst it persisted. One may consult Leviticus for mildew suppression but, supposing one can readily get hold of an appropriate priest, the following of the recommendations therein contained might be perceived as amounting to a bit of overkill for a couple of planes. The smell of kerosene dissipates fairly quickly but its fungus-killing properties appear to persist long after the smell has gone away. It was most educational to read the rather definitive replies regarding fungus and its fellows. What a great forum this is! I'm at one with Peter Robinson in concluding that the tea tree oil described is a product of one or other of the Melaleuca varieties. It certainly does attack fungus and is professionally prescribed for the treatment of fungal toenails. It's a pretty powerful distillate and a little bit goes a loooooooong way. Best left in the medicine chest, in my view. Put it this way. One can wash one's hands in kerosene and the natural grease (lipids?) will shortly reappear. Wash one's hands in ti-tree oil and they'll be taking skin off one's bum to furnish one with a new set of featureless fingerprints. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158007 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-10 20:15:05 Subject: Re: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) Steve Lineback wrote: > I will now get off my soap box and go back to a new book on making > workbenches I found in the library > Steve > Hey Steve, there's a new book on making workbenches? What's it like? What is it? You can't just throw that out there without details :-) -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158008 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-10 06:30:10 Subject: I kept the palette. Now what? Thanks to everyone who offered advice on my recently acquired oak palette. I've taken it home, planed an edge to expose its inner beauty and sat back to admire it for a while. Now I need to find a use for it. There is more than enough of it for the drawer fronts I'll need when I build a cabinet under the bench this spring, but most the rest of the bench uses smooth, clear-grained woods and I think the coarse grain of the oak would contrast a bit too much. I haven't made up my mind on this yet. What I'm currently thinking, for some of it, is vise jaws. My front vice is a metal quick-release style and the tail vice is all maple (except for the 2" x 18" wood screw, which I haven't identified yet). The oak is wide enough to make jaw faces but I wonder if its coarse grain is more susceptible to splitting under pressure. I can double-up the 3/4" boards to make a good thick jaw face, which will help add strength but I'd hate to build a nice set of jaws, only to have a corner chip off. I know oak is mighty but the edges can be surprisingly brittle sometimes. Is a chamfer the easy answer? I simply don't have enough experience with oak to know its limits. Thanks in advance, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158009 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-03-10 07:10:25 Subject: And you thought RUST was worthless Galoots, Almost none of you look at old machinist tools. They are also old tools too and faaaaaarrrrrrrr scarcer than any Stanley item number for number. And, they were sold in less number than you favorite plane maker. But, this is a wood forum, not an old tool forum. Anyway, if you are interested in rusty old tools that sell for $2370+ and happen to be a machinist tool, take a look: < http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6259110368 > Oh, and for the two of you that aren't into just using tools, you might like to know that the other one of these, extant, is in good plus to fine shape. It was bought 10 years ago from a knowledgeable seller of popular old planes for a grand total of $35!!! *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158010 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-10 07:20:54 Subject: RE: Plane Eating Molds I gotta go with Tony and Turps as well, but I do have a question regarding what the vinegar would do to the wood? I am sure it would take off the mold, but what else what it do, either positive or negative? I have seen old recipes that include vinegar in combination with BLO and Turps, but I have never tried vinegar in a combination. Truth of the matter I keep a jug of BLO and Turps and it covers a multitude of jobs, including wiping off any mold. Now that I can control the heat/cooling and humidity in my old basement shop I rarely get a bloom of fuzz anymore unless I put something against an outside basement brick wall that is not insulated. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Eating Molds > > At 08:21 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and > >water solution. > > What works for me is good old mineral spirits or turpentine. > > Tony > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158011 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 05:50:35 Subject: block planes My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded a couple of items including two 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 planes. Here is the problem: While these 2 planes appear to be identical at first glance, one is a half inch shorter than the other, as the rear is bobbed. But this is not a cobble job, it was made this way. And the smaller one has a depression machined into each side for what I would call thumb grips. I also notice that the blade adjusting screw is a little longer on the smaller one. Both are marked Stanley on the moveable piece in front that closes the mouth. I can see no other differences, even on close inspection. I read the pertinent 9 1/2 information on Blood and Gore, and the larger of the 2 seems to match perfectly. I am left to assume that the smaller one must be a Frankenplane. If you replaced the front adjustable piece with a Stanley piece, this would be the result. What say ye? Is this what happened? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158012 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-10 05:54:42 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Bill wrote: >If anyone is interested I will keep the list informed and post pics on >my website. Just let me know. I'd sure like to see your progress in pictures, I still haven't tried my hand at saw sharpening and I need some inspiration! I just bought a 6' crosscut saw blade at $1/foot that I can start on. Brother Scott wrote: >Which is better, an erergetic kindly sympathetic hooker or a toothless >emaciated slut getting thinner as time go on? To take your delightful analogy further, I've always felt that s3x is not something I'm willing to pay for, if only I apply myself I could get it for nothing, or at the very least, cheaply :> Same with a lot of other things. I do agree with supporting the starving artist, too bad they're not the ones clamoring for our cash with the ever-present commercials. I've just been reading "Against the Machine" and there's a list of questions that Wendell Berry suggests needs answering before buying a new tool: * The new tool should be cheaper than the one it replaces. * It should be at least as small in scale as the one it replaces. * It should do work that is clearly and demonstrably better than the one it replaces. * It should use less energy than the one it replaces. * If possible it should use some sort of solar energy, such as that of the body. * It should be repairable by a person of ordinary intelligence, provided that he or she has the necessary tools. * It should be purchasable and repairable as near to home as possible. * It should come from a small, privately-owned shop or store that will take it back for maintenance and repair. * It should not replace or disrupt anything good that already exists, and this includes family and community relationships. > the starving artist who can't pay their bills (me forinstance). Yo Scott, I don't have money, but I have time, so if ya need an apprentice.. :> Adriaan, who always stops at lemonade stands __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158013 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-10 08:12:51 Subject: RE: boiling oil Greeting John & GGs, My apologies for putting an N where the K belongs in DAMHIKT, but I am sorta new to this lingo! Sometimes I do wonder whether we are always talking about the same products. Tea Tree oil that we get here in the States is melaleuca alternifolia and is generally, IME, sold in relative small quantities and is somewhat expensive, but it is not anywhere nearly as nasty as you describe the product you know. I have used it medicinally for years, you just have to sit by yourself on a bus or drive with the windows rolled down. At first I just dismissed it as a product to be used on wood due its expense, but the more I thought about it, if the Tea Tree Oil saturated the wood surface it might just work. But, it would be an expensive proposition at least in the States. Again, IME, I think Kerosene does not get the respect say that gasoline does, but Kerosene can be dangerous if the fumes are confined or it gets warm enough to off-gas. I have seen it flash before. Of course, since you don't normally burn turps I don't know how it reacts. Let me get my matches out.... I have been considering your point about having fingerprints re-created from my bum. Sounds terribly painful, but the Tea Tree Oil we get here has never been such a strong distillate that it does that sort of damage, IME. I would have had a bum-ectomy to replace my finger tips a long time ago if it was that corrosive to skin! Conjures up strange images! I avoid Kero because it triggers migraines for me so I'll probably never get to put it to the test as a fungus preventive. I would be interested to know if others have tried Kerosene in this capacity. I don't know what is left in/on the wood after Kero evaporates. Paul in Normal > > > > Turps seems a lot more volatile than kero but one would think that mould > ... > err ... fungus would not have too pleasant a time of it whilst it > persisted. > One may consult Leviticus for mildew suppression but, supposing one can > readily get hold of an appropriate priest, the following of the > recommendations therein contained might be perceived as amounting to a bit > of overkill for a couple of planes. The smell of kerosene dissipates > fairly > quickly but its fungus-killing properties appear to persist long after the > smell has gone away. > > It was most educational to read the rather definitive replies regarding > fungus and its fellows. What a great forum this is! > > I'm at one with Peter Robinson in concluding that the tea tree oil > described > is a product of one or other of the Melaleuca varieties. It certainly > does > attack fungus and is professionally prescribed for the treatment of fungal > toenails. It's a pretty powerful distillate and a little bit goes a > loooooooong way. Best left in the medicine chest, in my view. Put it > this > way. One can wash one's hands in kerosene and the natural grease > (lipids?) > will shortly reappear. Wash one's hands in ti-tree oil and they'll be > taking skin off one's bum to furnish one with a new set of featureless > fingerprints. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158014 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 06:16:19 Subject: Re: block planes Upon cleaning the blades I see that the larger of the 2 planes has a blade marked "Wards Master Quality." The other has a Sweetheart blade, a little heart with SW inside. Maybe Stanley made a run of these planes for Montgomery Ward at some time. That could account for the differences. On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:50 AM, James Thompson wrote: > My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded a couple of items > including two 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 > planes. > > Here is the problem: While these 2 planes appear to be identical at > first glance, one is a half inch shorter than the other, as the rear > is bobbed. But this is not a cobble job, it was made this way. And > the smaller one has a depression machined into each side for what I > would call thumb grips. I also notice that the blade adjusting screw > is a little longer on the smaller one. > > Both are marked Stanley on the moveable piece in front that closes the > mouth. I can see no other differences, even on close inspection. > > I read the pertinent 9 1/2 information on Blood and Gore, and the > larger of the 2 seems to match perfectly. I am left to assume that the > smaller one must be a Frankenplane. If you replaced the front > adjustable piece with a Stanley piece, this would be the result. > > What say ye? Is this what happened? > > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158015 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-10 09:36:56 Subject: RE: block planes Jim ponders the heritage of a recent acquisition: > My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded...two > 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 > planes. >...one is a half inch shorter than the other...And the > smaller one has...what I would call thumb grips. > Both are marked Stanley on the moveable piece. > I read the 9-1/2...Blood and Gore, and the larger of > the 2 seems to match perfectly. I am left to assume > that the smaller one must be a Frankenplane. > What say ye? Is this what happened? I dunno, Jim. As to the thumb grips, Patrick has this to say: "The model most often encountered is the one offered from ca. 1895 onward. It is distinguishable by the oval depressions milled into the exterior of the arched sides. These are known as the "Hand-y" grip." He also gives a length of 6" for the 9-1/2 and doesn't indicate that it changed over time. How long are your two examples? It may be unreliable, but if the larger isn't 6" long, I'd vote for it being the Frankenplane... Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland Where boating/fishing season is only 3 weeks away!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158016 ---- From: Ken Cutting Date: 2006-03-10 07:07:40 Subject: Re: I kept the palette. Now what? Jim, My advice (as it goes - worth what you're paying for it) is to sit on it a while... now I mean this figuratively of course... sitting on oak for a while will turn your bum purple. Red oak in particular can move a good bit in changing seasons - definitely prone to checking. That said, and I remember others talking about this while planing oak, it is a strong grained wood. This can work for you or against you. If the grain is tight, I'm still talking from the red oak side, it is practically indestructible and maybe an ever so slightly brittle - lets just say it's tough but it won't take whacks on end grain IME. If it is broad grained it is still tough but the grain does like to separate - comes in handy while hewing and spitting. The book definition says this (Encyclopedia of Wood Working) "medium movement in service. ... medium bending strength and stiffness, high shock resistance and crushing strength... ... good for domestic flooring... vehicle construction(?)" also says drying problems... The oak on metal would probably become problematic... Quercus alba/petraea being worse than Quercus rubra - in english - white is worse than red but I would say they are both highly corrosive... clean the dust and chips off every time you stop working... DAMHIKT. So, good stuff over all... keep it away from iron though... it's all brass with oak. My two (think there's two and a half there) cents, Ken Cutting Still working on that red oak bench top... pictures will be coming soon! Let's just say... no metal will stay in contact with this monster... wooden vices and screws. I plan on putting a birch tool holding strip on the back of the bench and birch doghole strip in front... which I'm hewing and resawing - Neander all the way! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158017 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 07:11:36 Subject: Re: block planes On Mar 10, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Rodgers Charles wrote: > Jim ponders the heritage of a recent acquisition: > >> My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded...two >> 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 >> planes. >> .. > I dunno, Jim. As to the thumb grips, Patrick has this > to say: > "The model most often encountered is the one offered > from ca. 1895 onward. It is distinguishable by the oval > depressions milled into the exterior of the arched sides. > These are known as the "Hand-y" grip." > He also gives a length of 6" for the 9-1/2 and doesn't > indicate that it changed over time. How long are your > two examples? > It may be unreliable, but if the larger isn't 6" long, > I'd vote for it being the Frankenplane... > The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the smaller one, the casting marks the same. I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and "Type 13." What's up with that? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158018 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-10 07:23:53 Subject: Re: Palette Wood At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple >or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance >between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I >can get some pictures tonight and post them. > >Roger Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158019 ---- From: Joseph Jerkins Date: 2006-03-10 07:32:42 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Roger, Very nice design and execution. Seeing this makes it hard to believe most pallets just end broken up and sent to the land fill. Joe San Francisco, CA -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Van Maren Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:24 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Palette Wood At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple >or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance >between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I >can get some pictures tonight and post them. > >Roger Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158020 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-03-10 10:03:49 Subject: RE: Palette Wood I once made a small barn(16'x12') out of pallets. This was back in the late 90's and I had access to a bunch of pallets that were all the same size and a lot of wooden fence panels(6'x8'). The pallets were nailed together in a 2x6 framework and the slats from the fence panels were used for the exterior. There was a loft that was used for the storage and drying of lumber, that could be reached by stairs inside or by "hay doors" on the outside. It was very functional, and sturdy. It also had a wooden lock, ala St. Roy, on it. We have since moved, and I drive by occasionally to see how it is doing. Good memories. Samuel L. Peterson Associate Director, MU Grants & Contracts Manager, UM Sponsored Programs -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Joseph Jerkins Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 9:33 AM To: 'Roger Van Maren'; oldtools@r... Subject: RE: [OldTools] Palette Wood Roger, Very nice design and execution. Seeing this makes it hard to believe most pallets just end broken up and sent to the land fill. Joe San Francisco, CA -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Van Maren Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:24 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Palette Wood At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out of a pallet I >found a while back. It was mostly red oak but had 2 boards that look >like either soft maple or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance between the nail >holes on the pallet. I'll see if I can get some pictures tonight and >post them. > >Roger Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158021 ---- From: "David F. Lucier" Date: 2006-03-10 11:10:19 Subject: Re: block planes Jim, Ity may be a no.15 block. The 15 was 7" long but matched the 9 1/2 for features. David (crawling back under) On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:11:36 -0800 James Thompson writes: > > On Mar 10, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Rodgers Charles wrote: > > > Jim ponders the heritage of a recent acquisition: > > > >> My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded...two > >> 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 > >> planes. > >> .. > > I dunno, Jim. As to the thumb grips, Patrick has this > > to say: > > "The model most often encountered is the one offered > > from ca. 1895 onward. It is distinguishable by the oval > > depressions milled into the exterior of the arched sides. > > These are known as the "Hand-y" grip." > > He also gives a length of 6" for the 9-1/2 and doesn't > > indicate that it changed over time. How long are your > > two examples? > > It may be unreliable, but if the larger isn't 6" long, > > I'd vote for it being the Frankenplane... > > > > The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" > > long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the > smaller one, the casting marks the same. > > I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that > they > are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and > "Type 13." What's up with that? > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158022 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-10 08:09:34 Subject: Re: block planes > The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" > long. The longer is 7" long. Easy The short one is a 9 1/2 (don't go by Stanley stated sizes to within a 1/2", they could and did fudge it a lot). The 7" plane is another model. If they had knuckle caps they'd be #18 and #19. That kind of thing. Naturally, Stanley didn't use the same logical numbering for the toggle cap style blocks, so the number escapes me at the moment. The types are from John Walter's big book. I never saw a web reference for block plane types. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158023 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-10 11:16:53 Subject: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Afternoon folks Well, it's been four weeks of stay at home out of work with upper respiratory gunk infection. By now they've probably sold my desk and chair at work? Coming up for air, I received this Chapin-Stephens billhead this week. There is a bunch of retail short-hand on it that I seem to vaguely remember has something to do with payment terms, but can't pick it out of my chemical addled brain. Does anyone know the translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? Take a look at: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3616 Cheers Gary ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158024 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-10 11:35:53 Subject: Re: Palette Wood Very nice! The dovetails are outstanding. Are you a pins first or tails first dovetailer? Tim Warming up to a 72 degree F. day in NJ. (Global warming is finally paying off!) > > Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the > exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin > it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all > sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I > figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible > it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool > holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or > different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 > small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few > worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier > thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax > that really brought out the grain. > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg > > Roger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158025 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-10 08:45:19 Subject: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_sp_ot/iditarod way to go! bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158026 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-10 09:04:40 Subject: Re: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" never mind. he's 4th, now, and this links to a "gourmet meal for iditarod mushers" article. sorry. bill On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Bill Kasper wrote: > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_sp_ot/iditarod ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158027 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-10 09:05:06 Subject: Re: Palette Wood At 08:35 AM 3/10/2006, Tim Pendleton wrote: >Very nice! The dovetails are outstanding. Are you a pins first or tails >first dovetailer? > >Tim Tails first. Funny you should mention them though. On this project I managed to mark and cut 2 sets of pins from the same set of tails. Whoops! In the third picture, if you look closely you can see one tail that's wider than the others. That's due to a patch that's been glued in to take up the space. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158028 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-10 12:23:53 Subject: The Road to Damascus Well the stuff is all packed. I was gonna do a preview shot or 3 like old Steve but time didn't permit. (I was also going to have everything ready to roll earlier in the week, but it's much more fun working till 11:00 PM the nite before departure.....) Gonna be a bit of breezy ride I think. Weather looks to be right fine done there tomorrow. One of the best days in years. See ya tomorrow! Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158029 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-10 09:39:26 Subject: RE: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) On 9 Mar 2006 at 19:18, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > Looks like you guys are all too comfortable here... I don't know about > Ken, but I might begin charging for all the work... ;-)... I figured I'd have to pay people to look at it :-) Anything I have put up on my personal web site was just a labor of love. I go back to the early days of networking (where you had to route your own email - yuk) and I still view the net as primarily a way of sharing information that is not available anywhere else. Oh, I buy and sell tools on eBay from time to time and I appreciate being able to buy books on amazon and half.com, but I still think of all this networking as a means of access to resources. In truth, I hardly work on my own site any more. If something interesting happens among the BAGs, I update it. But most of the work these days is on the PAST site (pasttools.org) which I run as a result of complaining about the lack of a decent web site. I am in the midst of scanning and uploading 36 years of club history - tool swaps and meetings going back to 1968. It has been great fun learning about the early days of the club, as well as seeing what people looked like three decades ago. Also, there are pictures of tool collections that are just staggering. If you ever wonder where all the old tools have gone, I have photographic evidence that a small number of people seem to have acquired most of them. Unbelieveable stuff. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158030 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-10 12:50:40 Subject: Dovetail question Gentle List, Yesterday I was reviewing the Rob Cosman how to cut through dovetails video. When setting out the drawer side (the tail board) he set the marking gauge "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard." Although it's been a while since I've watched the Jim Kingshott how to cut lap dovetail video, IIRC he does the same thing. Unfortunately, neither Cosman nor Kingshott explain why this is done, nor does either indicate how much is "just a little bit less." (My long- suffering wife just rolls her eyes and remarks, "Honey, don't yell at the TV, I don't think they can hear you.") Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little bit less"? As always, I appreciate your help. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158031 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-10 11:51:34 Subject: Kingshott book received! The mythical beast arrived in yesterday's post! Quite minty condition too which was a bonus I didn't necessarily expect. I will say that since I've got a number of books on the topic, that this one doesn't particularly stand out for me.. others' mileage may certainly vary ... consider it the first item in my annual stash of possible Galootclaus gifts for the next one!! cheers all, Jim E #2 in somewhat springlike Wisconsin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158032 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-10 12:54:35 Subject: RE: The Road to Damascus Tony observes tomorrow's weather for the PATINA Spring Sale and Auction in Damascus, Maryland: > Gonna be a bit of breezy ride I think. > Weather looks to be right fine done there tomorrow. > One of the best days in years. > See ya tomorrow! > Tony A little windy today with winds >20 mph. Gale warning and small craft advisory on the Chesapeake, but tomorrow looks like it's gonna be a wonderful pre-spring day. Partly cloudy, morning low of about 50F and afternoon high near 65F, winds ESE 5-10 mph, chance of precip 20%, sunrise at 6:26AM. Should bring out the crowds. The worst thing is the "near critical fire danger" in the region due to winds and continued low humidity (<30%). Yeah, I know that's about as dry as a wet sponge in Happy Camp, but around here it's almost a drought. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158033 ---- From: kjworz@c... Date: 2006-03-10 17:58:58 Subject: Re: The Road to Damascus It's gonna be nice because I'm not going this year :( -- -Chris Schwartz Silver Spring, MD -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Anthony Seo > Well the stuff is all packed. I was gonna do a preview shot or 3 > like old Steve but time didn't permit. (I was also going to have > everything ready to roll earlier in the week, but it's much more fun > working till 11:00 PM the nite before departure.....) > > Gonna be a bit of breezy ride I think. > > Weather looks to be right fine done there tomorrow. One of the best > days in years. > > See ya tomorrow! > > Tony > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158034 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-10 12:02:57 Subject: RE: Dovetail question Sarge asks: Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little bit less"? Kirby promotes the same procedure in his Complete Dovetail book. His explanation concerns the fitting of drawers. He says to cut the pieces to the correct length to fit the drawer. Then, after joining the pieces via dovetail, you plane the sides flush with the ends of the pins. That sets the width of the drawer exactly. And a little bit is between 1/32" and 1/16". I would imagine that when the outside dimension of the piece is less important, I would cut the pins and tails a bit proud and plane them down to the sides. Less stock removal that way. Hope I answered your question. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie www.jlatech.com/rob/Woodworking/Knowledge%20Base.htm Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158035 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-10 10:20:04 Subject: Re: Dovetail question John asked: > Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit > less than > the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little > bit less"? Hi All, I set the gauge about 1/64" or less on the pin board to allow the sides to be planed to the ends of the pins. I build the drawers for a snug/tight fit. For me it is easier to plane the sides to fit, thereby arriving at the ends of the pins than shaving end grain pins on four corners. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158036 ---- From: Peter Hahn Date: 2006-03-10 13:43:37 Subject: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a woodworking friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. He has been making arts and crafts style furniture for his house and been using primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has been collecting stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the transition, and wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had managed to acquire a type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 garage-sale sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that much. It did have an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened using the scary sharp system (my first time - usually I use water stones). Tuned up, it did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem was the wood. Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, the cocobolo was pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The other wood I tried to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each stripe was grain running in a different direction (up or down). Stripes in one direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in the other direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the scary sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood (and burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why furniture makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? Peter Hahn Syracuse NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158037 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-10 13:55:37 Subject: Re: Kingshott book received! Jim Esten wrote: >The mythical beast arrived in yesterday's post! Quite minty condition >too which was a bonus I didn't necessarily expect. I will say that >since I've got a number of books on the topic, that this one doesn't >particularly stand out for me.. others' mileage may certainly vary ... This is the "Making and Modifying..." book, right? I seem to recall that during a discussion of this book some time back someone cited an interview with Kingshott in which he (JK) had complained that he felt the book had been rather badly edited after it was out of his hands and, in particular, a lot of material had been omitted. Now, I have a copy of the book --and wouldn't part with it for the world-- but, as much a fan as I am of JK, I have to say that this book has always had that sort of feel to it. OTOH, if I had to pick one book by JK, it would be his _A Woodworker's Guide to Joints_. (That, of course, is only after I already had copies of all his videos...) N ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158038 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-10 11:14:48 Subject: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Assembled Galoots, On Saturday, I was the fortunate attendee at the first ever travisher making class at John Wilson's Home Shop in Charlotte, Mi. This is the third or fourth tool making class I've been to with Gil as the instructor and I've enjoyed them all immensely. It's been said here before, but if you get the chance to take a woodworking or toolmaking class, take advantage of it. Ours is a mostly solitary hobby so it's a great opportunity to learn and share ideas with fellow tool enthusiasts. This was the first time that Gil has taught this particular subject so it was a learning process for all, but I must say that it succeeded spectacularly. We started the morning making the blade. Gill supplied O1 stock that had been cut in the shape of the blade. We proceeded to grind the bevel then bend the stock to the circular shape of the sole of the travisher using hardwood blocks and a vise for a press. As I remember, the blade had a 3 1/2" radius. We then heated and bent the tangs to 90 degrees (more or less) to a horizontal tangent at the center of the blade. We finished the initial metal work by hardening and tempering the blade. The little time left in the morning was spent doing layout on the hard maple stock of the travisher. The wood work was very similar to making a spokeshave. After lunch, we chiseled out the escapement, then made the mortises for the tangs. Gil used an interesting technique to do this. A hole was first drilled in the stock and then we got to use fire again to heat a square rod and burn a square hole by pressing the heated rod through the hole. We then fit the blade to the stock and cut out outline of the sole. The profile of the sole was then refined by sanding to match the curve of the blade exactly. The blade is held in the stock by set screws, so at this point the hole for the set screws were drilled and tapped. Finally, the top and edges of the stock were cut out for the desired shape. The rest of the day was spent sharpening and honing the blade and cleaning up the stock of the travisher using files and rasps. I had a little bit of cleaning up to do at home before finishing, but left the class with a working travisher. I am pleased with the way my travisher turned out. It looks good and cuts really well in my opinion. A big thanks to John Wilson for hosting the class, Gil Chesbro for sharing his knowledge and expertise with us and his patience for working through the problems, and also to Gil's lovely assistant Wes Groot for providing an extra hand and knowledgable opinion. Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi. where it looks like spring could be just around the corner. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158039 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-10 11:27:48 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods I'm sure many of the galoots will have more detailed answers but two things that have gotten me through tough times are hign angle planes and scrapers. A plane with a bed of 50 ish degrees will reduce tearout in these woods although it will be harder to push. Also a bevel up plane (image a really big block plane) will allow you to sharpen the blade to different angles to adjust this also (since the plane is bevel up the sharpening angle of the blade also effects the over cutting angle). Stanley made a bevel up jack plane or Lee Valley makes a new one. Also HNT Gordon and Steve Knight both make woodies with higher beds. However the cheapest way to handle this is a scraper. Derek could probably give you even more help since he works mainly in tough aussie timbers. Hope this helps, Joel McCarty --- Peter Hahn wrote: > I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a > woodworking > friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. > He has been > making arts and crafts style furniture for his house > and been using > primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has > been collecting > stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the > transition, and > wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had > managed to acquire a > type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 > garage-sale > sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that > much. It did have > an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened > using the scary sharp > system (my first time - usually I use water stones). > Tuned up, it > did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem > was the wood. > Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, > the cocobolo was > pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The > other wood I > tried to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each > stripe was grain > running in a different direction (up or down). > Stripes in one > direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in > the other > direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using > the scary > sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the > stripy wood (and > burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate > why furniture > makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess > the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to > use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to > mahogany? > > Peter Hahn > Syracuse NY > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158040 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-10 13:29:52 Subject: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Millrat asked: > >I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that they >are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and >"Type 13." What's up with that? > The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. He devloped type studies for more than just the benchplanes. There are the blockplanes, combination planes, router planes, and others not coming to mind right now. We Galoots owe a lot of credit to Roger for his years of research. Everytime I sit down to do some work on DATAMP and lift up the weighty stack of notes, I just shake my head and wonder how he did it, and did it so well. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158041 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-10 11:31:25 Subject: Re: Palette Wood Roger, Beautiful tote! Good-looking dovetails, and I really like how the arc of the handle echoes the grain pattern in the wood. Very well executed. Best Regards, Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158042 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-10 13:37:47 Subject: Re: block planes Jim is trying to identify his new block planes: >The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" >long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the >smaller one, the casting marks the same. Jim, Stanley DID make a #15 block plane, which was almost the same as a # 9 1/2. I found out I had one when I put two "identical" planes side by side and they weren't. Walt C Out in the shop with 1/4" of snow melt running over the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158043 ---- From: "Avrum Silverman" Date: 2006-03-10 19:50:07 Subject: RE: ABS Pipe for Carving Mallets Reference the following post regarding ABS pipe for caring mallets. From: Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS Subject: [OldTools] A footnote on making carving mallets ("Millrat Specials") Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:18 PM While making my 3rd batch of Jim's carving mallets (thanks again for the tutorials, Jim), I discovered I'd inadvertently turned the mallet heads too small for the job as the 2" ABS plastic slid onto the heads very easily when I heated the PVC. I initially attributed this to me incorrectly measuring the ID of the pipe, perhaps due to the fact............snip, snip I just slid one of the oversized plastic tubes off my mallet, and just for yucks tried to stick the mallet into another piece of plastic from the very same 10' section of pipe. The head is too large to go in w/o heating the plastic, and it feels like it'll be a darn tight fit (i.e., perfect). This leads me to believe that the inner diameter of a plastic pipe can vary radically, and it's best to take a different measure for each mallet. End of snip. This brings to light one of the first lessons I learned when I started my career as a process-project engineer designing and building what ever came along like--nuclear powered submarines, power plants and chemical plants etc. First there is a big difference between pipe and tube and second more important the OD of the pipe is fixed for each pipe size and the ID varies according to the pipe wall thickness. When the piping standards were first set up at the turn of the century that is the 20th not the 21st, pipe was joined together using threaded couplings etc. BY FIXING THE OD THIS INSURED THAT WHEN THREADED THE PIPE WOULD SCREW INTO THE FITTING. Couldn't be done if the ID was controlled. The wall thickness varies depending upon the pressure-temperature rating of the pipe. The same philosophy holds true today with plastic pipe. The OD is contolled so that cemented socket fittings can be used. A little bit of history that I was able to dredge up from my way back machine. When in the BOG if you guys ever venture in; PVC Drain and Vent pipe is a hell of lot different from schedule 40 and 80 pipe. They may have the same OD but the Id's will vary. Plan accordingly. Also the grey PVC stuff sold for electrical conduit is different from the white PVC piping sold for plumbing. End of sermon time to get outside and start raking the lawn and picking up all the winter damage etc. Avrum Silverman Wellesley,Ma ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158044 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-10 12:58:28 Subject: RE: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods There is also an excellent review of plane posted by Derek Cohen. He used the planes on various very hard woods from Australia. The reviews are also downloadable as PDF file and you can read at your leisure. http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/index.asp Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com >Made me appreciate why furniture makers of old > like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how do > people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand > tools - how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? > > Peter Hahn > Syracuse NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158045 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-10 14:54:07 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Steve, Thanks for this information. I know about (and have located) type studies of Stanley bench (and Bedrock) planes. Where can I find the other type studies you refer to below? Thank you so much. Cheers, John -----Original Message----- From: Steve Reynolds The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. He devloped type studies for more than just the benchplanes. There are the blockplanes, combination planes, router planes, and others not coming to mind right now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158046 ---- From: "David F. Lucier" Date: 2006-03-10 14:58:09 Subject: Re: block planes Jim, I picked one up yesterday with some other planes and had the same experience. The one I bought has a sweetheart blade and no id on the body. I'm now wondering how uncommon it is. David On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:37:47 -0600 "Walt Cheever" writes: > Jim is trying to identify his new block planes: > > >The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 > 3/8" > >long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the > >smaller one, the casting marks the same. > > Jim, > > Stanley DID make a #15 block plane, which was almost the same as a > # 9 1/2. > I found out I had one when I put two "identical" planes side by side > and > they weren't. > > Walt C > Out in the shop with 1/4" of snow melt running over the floor! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158047 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 11:59:34 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes On Mar 10, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Steve Reynolds wrote: > Millrat asked: >> >> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that they >> are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and >> "Type 13." What's up with that? >> > > > The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger > Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. He devloped type studies for more than just > the benchplanes. There are the blockplanes, combination planes, > router planes, and others not coming to mind right now. We Galoots > owe a lot of credit to Roger for his years of research. Everytime I > sit down to do some work on DATAMP and lift up the weighty stack of > notes, I just shake my head and wonder how he did it, and did it so > well. > > Regards, > Steve Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look into this? :>) Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158048 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-10 15:01:46 Subject: RE: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods I've been playing with so-called back bevels on planes to get a higher effective cutting angle, and it works well for reducing tearout (for me on various figured domestic and exotic hardwoods, but YMMV). I just got a call that the high-angle frog for my LN4.5 came in today. I don't actually expect to get different performance from it vs using a back-bevel, but I wanted to try. I can't imagine that bevel up or down makes any difference if the cutting angle is the same, although one might be less likely to chatter. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Joel Mccarty > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:28 PM > To: Peter Hahn; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods > > I'm sure many of the galoots will have more detailed answers > but two things that have gotten me through tough times are > hign angle planes and scrapers. > > A plane with a bed of 50 ish degrees will reduce tearout in > these woods although it will be harder to push. Also a bevel > up plane (image a really big block > plane) will allow you to sharpen the blade to different > angles to adjust this also (since the plane is bevel up the > sharpening angle of the blade also effects the over cutting angle). > > Stanley made a bevel up jack plane or Lee Valley makes a new > one. Also HNT Gordon and Steve Knight both make woodies with > higher beds. > > However the cheapest way to handle this is a scraper. > > Derek could probably give you even more help since he works > mainly in tough aussie timbers. > > Hope this helps, > > Joel McCarty > > --- Peter Hahn wrote: > > > I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a woodworking > > friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. > > He has been > > making arts and crafts style furniture for his house and been using > > primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has been collecting > > stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the transition, and > > wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had managed to acquire a > > type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 garage-sale > > sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that much. > It did have > > an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened using the > scary sharp > > system (my first time - usually I use water stones). > > Tuned up, it > > did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem > > was the wood. > > Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, the > cocobolo was > > pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The other > wood I tried > > to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each stripe was grain > running in a > > different direction (up or down). > > Stripes in one > > direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in the other > > direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the scary > > sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood (and > > burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why > furniture makers > > of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how do > > people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand > tools - how > > did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? > > > > Peter Hahn > > Syracuse NY > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158049 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-10 12:05:07 Subject: re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Multitude of Galoots "Sorry for the waste of bandwidth," he said, red-faced, "pass the spittoon." Jim snip of redundant material __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158050 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-10 13:41:20 Subject: camphor wood Greetings All, I just stumbled on a web page indicating that the camphor tree, source of the camphor wood that I can't seem to find in the local specialty lumber stores because of its rarity, is considered a pest in Florida and is being eradicated. And ground into mulch!!!!!! http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/camphor.html Can't we stop this carnage? Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158051 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-10 16:16:44 Subject: Re: RE: ABS Pipe for Carving Mallets Click -- the light went on. Thank you Avrum, your comment illuminates something I'd never really understood. Very respectfully Larry Avrum Silverman wrote: > [snip]When the piping standards were first set up at the turn of the > century that is the 20th not the 21st, pipe was joined together using > threaded couplings etc. BY FIXING THE OD THIS INSURED THAT WHEN > THREADED THE PIPE WOULD SCREW INTO THE FITTING. Couldn't be done if > the ID was controlled. The wall thickness varies depending upon the > pressure-temperature rating of the pipe. [snip] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158052 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-10 15:17:54 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes >> Millrat asked: >>> >>> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that >>> they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" >>> and "Type 13." What's up with that? >>> >> >> >> The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger >> Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. > >Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look into this? We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or to the reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. Only one of Smith's volumes is available new, the other and the Guide are available used but prices are climbing. I'm not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked for them. The old plane typing page developed by Jay Sutherland had some of the information embedded in it. I think Tom Price or someone recently dug it up from the dead. I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to target the best models. But when they merely detail differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. YMMV. Regards, Steve - desperate to get on the road to Damascus Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158053 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-10 16:46:17 Subject: Essential Oils Be careful with adding essential oils to inhibit mold. I used to work at a spice company and I kept my Oil of Clove eyedropper in a plastic pencil holder. Well after a couple weeks the oil had eaten through the holder. I don't know if it is just that kind of plastic or other things too. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158054 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-10 13:51:35 Subject: FS: Parts or Whole? Hi Galoots I need your advice. In case you haven't guessed yet, being from Happy Camp, I don't get out much. It's way over an hour to the nearest highway. Gas prices and upkeep on old cars, well, I stay home a lot. Anyway, I don't see tool meets or prices in persona, only ebay stuff really and pictures and descriptions being so variable, it hard to figure for me. . Well, I got myself in a skosh of trouble here. These guys were making these new way cool guitar necks people never made before. Or at least I hadn't ever seen the pattern. ......... and my bud Will was over talking gear..... One thing led to another and I've got one coming, now just have to pay for it. So, I've got a couple of Stanley planes. I've had these some years. They would represent, in my mind, about the best using planes of anything we ever made as a species, available for anything like a reasonable price. Some would rightly argue the type 11's with low knobs, their cousins. And I like the -looks- of the low knobs better myself. But for long day comfort, I'll take a high knob to grab hold of. A #4, type 15 and a #5. type 14. They are both sweetheart era. Both still have partial or better stickers on the totes. The #4 tote was broken clean when I got it and can be seen getting glued in my little tote repair tut here http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/tote.htm Yeah, this is the very tote from the old story posted long ago. The knobs have minor dents, I gave them a decent polish on the high quality rosewood you can hardly get anymore. The beds are 80-90% japan left, no problems, mostly original patina, none but the minorest of pitts, clean n waxed. Every screw and washer in place and easy turning. Frogs complete, clean n waxed with no problems at all either. Long blades with most original meat and no pitting near the edge. Not overcleaned but clean enough. Lever caps proper Stanley embossed with straight keyhole pattern, no chips. As good as it gets for users. A new plane user would flat be in heaven to know these planes. The question I'd like advice on, is it still more worthwhile to strip them back down for parts? Is advertizing so effective that people would rather buy sloppy new factory work in a store plugged by commercials everyday, or expensive bragging rights bronze they probably don't really need, over the best Stanley ever made (imo), so much so, that it's still better to gut a terriffic plane and scatter it to the wind? yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158055 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-03-10 16:56:11 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Listmom Steve wrote (sans snippage): >We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or to the >reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. Only one of Smith's >volumes is available new, the other and the Guide are available used but >prices are climbing. I'm not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked >for them. >I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to target the best models. But when they merely detail differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. A rare quibble or two with Steve's comments: The type studies for Stanley block planes do not appear in Roger Smith's Ptampia volumes (I don't think). Rather, they are most accessibly available in Walters 1996 "Antique & Collectible Stanley Tools." The authors of these type studies (there are two of them--9 1/2 Family of block planes, and Stanley No. 18 & 19 block planes) are Jack Schoelhamer & John Wells for the former, and Jack Schoelhamer & Bob Kaune for the latter. Unlike Steve, I find the block plane type studies to be quite substantial and detailed works that have helped me immeasureably in puzzling out block planes. But, my interests and needs are surely different from Steve's. As for online resources, I concur that they may not exist. But having a paper library is always a boon for the more recent, copyright-protected stuff. Unless, of course, you want to wait around for the rights to expire! Best, Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158056 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-10 15:13:11 Subject: RE: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes James and All, I do have John Walter's Guide to Stanley as well as Smith's PTAMPIA volumes and will be able to look up for you but I need good pictures of the whole planes as well as detailed pictures of parts that you identify as different. No, I will not scan the books and pout it on line... No way. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Reynolds > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:18 PM > To: James Thompson > Cc: oldtools > Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes > > >> Millrat asked: > >>> > >>> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that > >>> they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, > i.e., "Type 4" > >>> and "Type 13." What's up with that? > >>> > >> > >> > >> The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly > done by Roger > >> Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. > > > > >Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look > into this? > > > > We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or > to the reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. > Only one of Smith's volumes is available new, the other and > the Guide are available used but prices are climbing. I'm > not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked for them. > The old plane typing page developed by Jay Sutherland had > some of the information embedded in it. I think Tom Price > or someone recently dug it up from the dead. > > I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like > them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements > were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to > target the best models. But when they merely detail > differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. > The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I > remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. YMMV. > > Regards, > Steve - desperate to get on the road to Damascus > > > Regards, > Steve > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158057 ---- From: Kyle Accardi Date: 2006-03-10 15:06:34 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Sanford Moss wrote: > The type studies for Stanley block planes do not appear in Roger Smith's > Ptampia volumes (I don't think). Rather, they are most accessibly > available in Walters 1996 "Antique & Collectible Stanley Tools." Which is to say: "Not very". I'd love to own/read this book, but I'll probably find a Gutenberg Bible first (which is online, BTW). Perhaps this will be the year of the 2006 A&CST. > As for online resources, I concur that they may not exist. But having a > paper library is always a boon for the more recent, copyright-protected > stuff. Unless, of course, you want to wait around for the rights to > expire! But since it's so rare (expensive, really) a book, the info and research stand to become lost: at least those who can't cough up $300+ for a copy. Cheers, Kyle Accardi in snowy Banks, Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158058 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-10 16:05:30 Subject: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/Shabby-Ooak-Hand-Painted-Chic-Wooden- Plane_W0QQitemZ6261280481QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158059 ---- From: Dave Strommen Date: 2006-03-10 18:20:22 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes I do have Jay Sutherland's old plane dating pages and router type study pages that I resurrected and can be used online here: http://homepage.mac.com/michianaptp/dastrom2/oldtools/jayspages/ Some of the links may not be up to date but it is a good reference. I think Josh? at hyperkitten.com resurrected them also. Dave Strommen Northern Indiana On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > James and All, > > I do have John Walter's Guide to Stanley as well as Smith's > PTAMPIA volumes and will be able to look up for you but I > need good pictures of the whole planes as well as detailed > pictures of parts that you identify as different. > > No, I will not scan the books and pout it on line... > > No way. > > >>>> Millrat asked: >>>>> >>>>> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that >>>>> they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, >> i.e., "Type 4" >>>>> and "Type 13." What's up with that? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly >> done by Roger >>>> Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. >> >>> >>> Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look >> into this? >> >> >> >> We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or >> to the reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. >> Only one of Smith's volumes is available new, the other and >> the Guide are available used but prices are climbing. I'm >> not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked for them. >> The old plane typing page developed by Jay Sutherland had >> some of the information embedded in it. I think Tom Price >> or someone recently dug it up from the dead. >> >> I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like >> them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements >> were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to >> target the best models. But when they merely detail >> differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. >> The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I >> remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. YMMV. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158060 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-10 15:52:46 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods Peter Hahn wrote: > Each stripe was grain running in a different direction (up or down). > Stripes in one direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in > the other direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the > scary sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood > (and burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why furniture > makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? I'll agree that the high angle will help, but also beware the cocobolo is really hard on the blade. Plan on doing lots of sharpening. Not sure if its the hardness of the wood, or others have said high levels of silica in the wood. -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158061 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-10 15:59:05 Subject: Re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Blake Ashley wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/Shabby-Ooak-Hand-Painted-Chic-Wooden- >Plane_W0QQitemZ6261280481QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- > > > From the description: (unfortunately you can't see the pink text without HTML) I am sure this is every man’s nightmare to find his tools painted with flowers. / me again if it goes for minimum, we could try to salvage it. Take up a collection to buy this cr@@, or hope it doesn;t sell, then try and lowball her. Hope she can learn to realize there is no market, and give this up, and go back to a life of painting garden gnomes. Oh crud, she's got 4 of them out there, one even says Every man's nightmare ~ Tools with painted roses! near the thumbnail. -- Kirk Eppler feeling nauseous now, a new low has been reached. Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158062 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-03-10 16:00:57 Subject: re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Now that some of your vision has returned (thanks alot, Blake), here's a less genteel old-tool scenario. I was using google images to look at spoke shaves, and came up with this eyeball balm: http://homepage.mac.com/laddie/fire_by_friction.html Nothing there you'ld find in an olde tea room. cur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158063 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-10 20:19:32 Subject: Re: FS: Parts or Whole? On 10 Mar, 2006, at 4:51 PM, scott grandstaff wrote: > Hi Galoots > I need your advice. > > The question I'd like advice on, is it still more worthwhile to > strip them back down for parts? > Is advertizing so effective that people would rather buy sloppy new > factory work in a store plugged by commercials everyday, or expensive > bragging rights bronze they probably don't really need, over the best > Stanley ever made (imo), so much so, that it's still better to gut a > terriffic plane and scatter it to the wind? yours, Scott > Hi all - My two cents, Scott? Depends on what you mean by "worthwhile," right? I expect you could realize a greater financial return by parting these tools out; but you addressed the greater question in the previous paragraph when you wrote: " A #4, type 15 and a #5. type 14. They are both sweetheart era. As good as it gets for users. A new plane user would flat be in heaven to know these planes." Answered your own question there, I believe. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158064 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-10 21:28:08 Subject: Stamp Enhancement I've recently acquired three boxwood spokeshaves. The manufacturer's names are quite small and hard to read, even with a magnifier. Are there any tricks to enhancing the type to make it easier to read? I recently saw a plane on eBay where the seller went over the type with a white powder or chalk so the type showed up well in photographs, but I've tried baking soda and flour to no avail. Oh mighty porch, please share your wisdom. Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158065 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-10 20:44:43 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary asks - > Coming up for air, I received this Chapin-Stephens billhead this > week. There is a bunch of retail short-hand on it that I seem to > vaguely remember has something to do with payment terms, but can't > pick it out of my chemical addled brain. Does anyone know the > translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? Well, yeah. As a former senior manager for a company that supplied the retail market, these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common even today (no, I don't understand the point of it). So 60/10/10/10 is 60% off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. If you do the math they all work out (within a penny or two). Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 = $2.50 >From my experience stuff like 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. I don't know about these extremely large discount examples. Perhaps the "list" prices were actually suggested retail. Then it would make sense. Dennis Heyza Macomb, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158066 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-10 22:09:22 Subject: Spokeshave Makers After closer examination, and a bit of wine, I managed to nail down a few letters on my boxwood spokeshaves. A little more digging on the net helped fill in the missing letters. Two of them are Marples/Hibernia Works shaves. One has a shamrock. I checked the archives and saw a bit of background on this company, but the thread came up short. I think it was an old thread. Does anyone have more information on this brand regarding company history and possible timeframes? Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158067 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-03-10 20:39:26 Subject: Re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Hey it still looks functional. Real rough, tough, galoots don't mind planing with roses. Just make sure your shop apron doesn't clash. John Lederer Blake Ashley wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/Shabby-Ooak-Hand-Painted-Chic-Wooden- > Plane_W0QQitemZ6261280481QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158068 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-11 14:08:24 Subject: Re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Hi All, A suggestion to all galoots whose wives are 'reluctant', shall we say, when it comes to you using/collecting/accumulating/hoarding all things rusty.........let her use her decorator skills and 'fancy' up the workshop. Yep, nice floral cottage curtains to match the rose painted planes, pastel coloured shop apron/overalls/coveralls............. Take her rust hunting and she may find that elusive $5.00 No.1.........and then ask what coloured daisys you want painted on it !!!! :-D Peter B, in Australia (and all comment were in jest!!!) John Lederer wrote: > Hey it still looks functional. Real rough, tough, galoots don't mind > planing with roses. Just make sure your shop apron doesn't clash. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158069 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-03-10 22:35:48 Subject: Re: boiling oil Friends I never cease to be perplexed and confused over why one would add a solvent to oil. What could it possibly add to the situation to improve the working properties of the oil? No I won't ask that I'll just state that it serves only to make the situation more unpleasant dangerous and toxic. In my quest to prolong my woodworking career and avocation and to not have a very short old age connected to an oxygen tank I avoid every toxic fume I can! I do however use a lot of linseed oil. All the best, Ken I do love the smell of linseed right before dawn. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158070 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-03-10 22:49:40 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods The preferred way of dealing with difficult wood is a plane with a toothing blade. Not a veneering scraper type plane with the blade set at about 90 degrees but a bench or block plane with a toothing blade. I also get good results from quality Japanese planes with blue paper steel blades or super blue steel and a bed angle of 42 degrees. But also technique is involved one may have to plane this few inches with the plane skewed to just the right angle and then reverse direction 180 degrees for the next 3" while avoiding some area or other altogether with the plane using only a scraper plane or card scraper there. Lee Valley makes toothed blades for many of their planes which is a good point of reference because they tune theirs in the correct traditional way. Best regards Ken Peter Hahn wrote: > I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a woodworking > friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. He has been > making arts and crafts style furniture for his house and been using > primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has been collecting > stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the transition, and > wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had managed to acquire a > type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 garage-sale > sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that much. It did have > an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened using the scary sharp > system (my first time - usually I use water stones). Tuned up, it > did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem was the wood. > Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, the cocobolo was > pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The other wood I > tried to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each stripe was grain > running in a different direction (up or down). Stripes in one > direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in the other > direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the scary > sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood (and > burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why furniture > makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? > > Peter Hahn > Syracuse NY > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158071 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-10 23:03:23 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Sanford Moss wrote: > > > The type studies for Stanley block planes do not appear in Roger > Smith's Ptampia volumes (I don't think). Rather, they are most > accessibly available in Walters 1996 "Antique & Collectible Stanley > Tools." The authors of these type studies (there are two of them--9 > 1/2 Family of block planes, and Stanley No. 18 & 19 block planes) are > Jack Schoelhamer & John Wells for the former, and Jack Schoelhamer & > Bob Kaune for the latter. > > Thanks for the correction, Sandy. It is right to give credit where it is due. I still have my PTAMPIAs, but sold my Walter Guide a year ago and don't have ready access to one anymore. Yeah, I know. But I was so SURE he was about to issue a new edition and I wanted to cash in on the old one. SSSIIIIGGGHHHHHHH. I'll have to listen to Tom call me a dumb@$$ for two hours tomorrow morning on the ride to Damascus. He thinks it is the stupidest thing I've ever done and this reairing of it will renew his derisive attitude towards my grubby move. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158072 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 00:15:23 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. Cheers Gary On Mar 10, 2006, at 11:44 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Gary asks - > >> Coming up for air, I received this Chapin-Stephens billhead this >> week. There is a bunch of retail short-hand on it that I seem to >> vaguely remember has something to do with payment terms, but can't >> pick it out of my chemical addled brain. Does anyone know the >> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? > > Well, yeah. As a former senior manager for a company that supplied the > retail market, these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are > common > even today (no, I don't understand the point of it). So 60/10/10/10 > is 60% > off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. > If you do > the math they all work out (within a penny or two). > > Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 > Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 > Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 = > $2.50 > > From my experience stuff like 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. > I don't > know about these extremely large discount examples. Perhaps the "list" > prices were actually suggested retail. Then it would make sense. > > Dennis Heyza > Macomb, Michigan > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158073 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 00:26:04 Subject: Re: Spokeshave Makers Jim First take a look at the Marples company history page: http://www.marples.co.uk/page2.html then... the shamrock was a Marples trademark for many years. As for enhancing weak marks, I've scanned marks in grayscale, reversed the image, sharpened and examined it zoomed in. Sometimes it works. Cheers Gary On Mar 10, 2006, at 9:09 PM, Jim McVicar wrote: > > After closer examination, and a bit of wine, I managed to nail down > a few > letters on my boxwood spokeshaves. A little more digging on the net > helped > fill in the missing letters. Two of them are Marples/Hibernia Works > shaves. > One has a shamrock. > > I checked the archives and saw a bit of background on this company, > but the > thread came up short. I think it was an old thread. Does anyone > have more > information on this brand regarding company history and possible > timeframes? > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158074 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 00:31:35 Subject: Robert Sorby company history And lest I forget... here is the web page for Robert Sorby.... http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/company_info.htm Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158075 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-03-10 23:46:20 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods The practice of an old timer gunsmith for cocobolo and a couple of other tropical woods was simple: treat it like metal. Files, hacksaws, etc. Worked reasonably well for the small items (pistol grips, forends, grip caps, butt plates) that he might use these woods for. John Lederer Peter Hahn wrote: > I guess the question is how do people deal with the exotic > hardwoods who want to use hand tools - how did the old guys do it? > Or did they stick to mahogany? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158076 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 15:32:42 Subject: Re: Dovetail question John M. Johnston wrote: > Yesterday I was reviewing the Rob Cosman how to cut through dovetails video. > When setting out the drawer side (the tail board) he set the marking gauge > "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard." Although it's > been a while since I've watched the Jim Kingshott how to cut lap dovetail > video, IIRC he does the same thing. Unfortunately, neither Cosman nor Kingshott > explain why this is done, nor does either indicate how much is "just a > little bit less." (snip) > Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit less than > the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little bit less"? I think I may have something of a back-to-front answer to John's query. I was taught to gauge the bottom lines of through dovetails and pins by setting the gauge over the thickness of the adjoining piece at the end to be joined. This should result in the tails and pins being, in effect, proud of the work by one half of the thickness of the gauge pin if the point is concentric with the pin's section and if one is good enough at cutting the joints. The proud parts are then planed down. It seems, then, that "just a little bit less" would be half the thickness of the gauge pin if the final result after glue-up was not to be planed to fit. The procedure of setting the gauge over the thickness of the adjoining piece, in theory, automatically takes care of drawer fit as to length and width by the total distance of the thickness of the gauge's pin if the measurements (usually, marks on a rod) of the available drawer space are used, unmodified, in the preparation of the drawer's parts. Draw height only, then, is the subject of further planing down, usually along the bottom edges, to fit. This accords, in the main, with Robert Weber's view: "I would imagine that when the outside dimension of the piece is less important, I would cut the pins and tails a bit proud and plane them down to the sides. Less stock removal that way." However, the outside dimensions of a drawer are important and the thickness of the gauge pin furnishes the appropriate small space to permit the sides fairly to fit the drawer opening. But all of this can be a bit theoretical unless applied by the hands of a first-rate workman. However, if such a procedure is consistently adopted improvement ensues to the extent, at least, that the amount of ad hoc planing is considerably reduced. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158077 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 12:46:54 Subject: Re: boiling oil Paul et al, No need for apologies. I thought it made good scents. My acquaintance with the vices and virtues ti-tree oil arises from the circumstance that my son's mother-in-law used to grow Melaleuca trees and distil their foliage to "oil" at something over 90% purity. A small drop applied to the inside of the arm and washed off almost immediately produced a very satisfactory welt, the oil at this purity being, I was informed, decidedly hygroscopic. I also understood that, after the oil was sold by the distiller, it was heavily diluted, by alcohol, I think, but I am not certain on this point, by the so-called manufacturers who then included the diluted material in products distributed to the health industry retailers. A little of the original oil went a very long way indeed to arrive at its final retail form but it could be purchased, very expensively, in its nearly pure form. As an inveterate user of the kerosene-fuelled blow torch I must admit that the smell of kerosene has never particularly bothered me and I find it fairly safe to deal with. My old dog might have another view as I came near on one occasion to setting him alight as, on my giving the torch a couple of pumps whilst the pipes were not yet hot enough, it became something of a mini flame-thrower just as he ambled in front of it. Since then he has declined to favour me with his company when I start playing with kerosene. Paul wrote: > Greeting John & GGs, My apologies for putting an N where the K belongs in > DAMHIKT, but I am sorta new to this lingo! Sometimes I do wonder whether we > are always talking about the same products. Tea Tree oil that we get here in > the States is melaleuca alternifolia and is generally, IME, sold in relative > small quantities and is somewhat expensive, but it is not anywhere nearly as > nasty as you describe the product you know. I have used it medicinally for > years, you just have to sit by yourself on a bus or drive with the windows > rolled down. > > At first I just dismissed it as a product to be used on wood due its > expense, but the more I thought about it, if the Tea Tree Oil saturated the > wood surface it might just work. But, it would be an expensive proposition > at least in the States. > > Again, IME, I think Kerosene does not get the respect say that gasoline > does, but Kerosene can be dangerous if the fumes are confined or it gets > warm enough to off-gas. I have seen it flash before. Of course, since you > don't normally burn turps I don't know how it reacts. Let me get my matches > out.... > > I have been considering your point about having fingerprints re-created from > my bum. Sounds terribly painful, but the Tea Tree Oil we get here has never > been such a strong distillate that it does that sort of damage, IME. I > would have had a bum-ectomy to replace my finger tips a long time ago if it > was that corrosive to skin! Conjures up strange images! > > I avoid Kero because it triggers migraines for me so I'll probably never get > to put it to the test as a fungus preventive. I would be interested to know > if others have tried Kerosene in this capacity. I don't know what is left > in/on the wood after Kero evaporates. Paul in Normal > > Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158078 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 16:25:10 Subject: Re: camphor wood Blake writes: > I just stumbled on a web page indicating that the camphor tree, source > of the camphor wood that I can't seem to find in the local specialty > lumber stores because of its rarity, is considered a pest in Florida and > is being eradicated. And ground into mulch!!!!!! > > http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/camphor.html > > Can't we stop this carnage? I'm not sure whether the camphor tree to which Blake refers is the same as the camphor laurel tree, an exotic, which is a declared pest and infests the waterways of Brisbane and beyond. It grows to a large, shady, deciduous tree unthreatened by native predation and which shades out native vegetative species and against which an unremitting campaign of eradication has been waged, not entirely successfully, for quite a number of years. It berries are very attractive to a large range of birds and, consequently, its spread is rapid along waterways. Its timber, however, is much sought after by turners and the makers of "camphor-wood" chests which keep the moths, silverfish etc. at bay from the chests' contents. The woodturners' clubs etc. have informal standing orders with the local government's environmental protection office to be notified concerning the proposed removal of these trees and, on receipt of notification, usually arrive promptly in sufficient numbers and properly equipped to remove the tree/s and depart with the timber to everyone's satisfaction although, I am informed, it took some time for the club members to get their act together and to be trained to be there on the day, failing which the trees were felled and chipped. Strangely, although the camphor laurel is much in demand by "hobbyist" woodworkers, some of whom provide themselves with a "nice little earner" from the pursuit of their craft, this timber seems never to have been regarded as being "commercial" enough to interest the mainstream sawmilling fraternity to any great extent. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158079 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-11 06:49:34 Subject: Re: Stamp Enhancement Jim McVicar wrote: > I've recently acquired three boxwood spokeshaves. The manufacturer's names > are quite small and hard to read, even with a magnifier. Are there any > tricks to enhancing the type to make it easier to read? I recently saw a > plane on eBay where the seller went over the type with a white powder or > chalk so the type showed up well in photographs, but I've tried baking soda > and flour to no avail. > > Oh mighty porch, please share your wisdom. This would help: http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/ptm/ BugBear (tongue massively in cheek, although it REALLY would help) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158080 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 17:06:41 Subject: Re: boiling oil Ken Pendergrass tel is frens: > Friends > I never cease to be perplexed and confused over why one would add a > solvent to oil. What could it possibly add to the situation to improve > the working properties of the oil? No I won't ask that I'll just state > that it serves only to make the situation more unpleasant dangerous and > toxic. In my quest to prolong my woodworking career and avocation and to > not have a very short old age connected to an oxygen tank I avoid every > toxic fume I can! I do however use a lot of linseed oil. Doan tink no fren torkin bout improvin workin propertees a oyl, jus bout killin fungus. Hope perplexuations an confusications (soun paneful) cleer up quik wit appalachian a linseed. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158081 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-11 08:43:58 Subject: RE: Dovetail question : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of : Sgt42RHR@a... : Sent: 10 March 2006 17:51 : To: oldtools@r... : Subject: [OldTools] Dovetail question : : Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit : less than : the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a : little bit less"? A look at my web site - Projects - A Bookcase in Oak, part way down the page 'A Strategy for the Joint' will, I think reveal all - well nearly all. When applied to drawer fitting, the tactic is to plane the front with very slightly tapered edges (apart from the bottom one) until it just enters the opening. One then cleans up the sides until all the end grain of the pins is just removed. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158082 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-11 08:43:58 Subject: RE: I kept the palette. Now what? : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Jim McVicar : Sent: 10 March 2006 10:30 : To: oldtools@r... : Subject: [OldTools] I kept the palette. Now what? : : : The oak is wide enough to make jaw faces but I wonder if its : coarse grain is : more susceptible to splitting under pressure. I can double-up the 3/4" : boards to make a good thick jaw face, which will help add : strength In terms of comfort when resting the arm on the bench top while chiselling horizontally, there's much to be said for a good thick jaw face. Mine is a bit under 2". For example, please see the fourth and fifth pics down, my web site - Dovetailing Detailed - Completing the Sockets. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158083 ---- From: Tony Blanks Date: 2006-03-11 22:10:02 Subject: Re: Spokeshave Makers/ Marples/Hibernia Works At 01:09 PM 11/03/2006, Jim McVicar wrote >After closer examination, and a bit of wine, I managed to nail down a few >letters on my boxwood spokeshaves. A little more digging on the net helped >fill in the missing letters. Two of them are Marples/Hibernia Works shaves. >One has a shamrock. > >I checked the archives and saw a bit of background on this company, but the >thread came up short. I think it was an old thread. Does anyone have more >information on this brand regarding company history and possible timeframes? > >Jim >Saint John, New Brunswick Hi Jim Hope it was a good Australian Shiraz and not one of those make it yourself in a box Canadian brews.........This is some info I posted back in 2000. I have cleaned up a few typos.... I don't know if this is in the archive or not. Don McConnell probably has this stuff tied down tighter than I do, but in the meantime........ Into the wayback machine for a question from John Lederer (still an active contributor - Hi John) and a response.......... Regards, Tony B Hobart, Tasmania "In the middle of a rather refined gloat over a $100 box of tools which turned into a fascinating thread about a clapboard marker, John Lederer mentioned, > two wood spokeshaves, including one that >says "Hibernia Sheffield" and appears to be box wood >with a brass ware (anyone know anything?), Hi John, Forget the Stanley stuff in the box, thats a Marples tool, and whats more, a tool from the days when Marples was a proud line rather than a marketing brand! Apologies to all Blue Chip owners, but you have to know the truth ;-( Should have a shamrock mark stamped on the iron somewhere. The shamrock mark was used by Wm Marples when trading alone before 1860 (1820 - 1862), then by Wm Marples and Sons from 1862 up until the firm ceased trading in its own right in the early 1960s. The company was then bought up and split up between C& J Hampton (Record) and Wm Ridgway, two companies which very shortly after were amalgamated as Record-Ridgway and started to go through some very rough times. The Marples name is still on a lot of stuff made by Record-Ridgway, but I haven't seen the shamrock mark on any of those tools. I used to think that the shamrock was a joke derived from the name of their factory, the Hibernia Works, but since it was probably in use before the firm moved, perhaps the Works name is a joke derived from the mark? Who knows? Not me for sure! A while ago, in pursuit of info on the Shamrock mark, Brent Beach asked me: >" Wonder why they called it Hibernia works when it was located in Sheffield?" I have been looking in the obvious books in my small collection but I can't find the answer. Somewhere I have a reference that attributes it to one of the sons having spent time in Ireland, done well for himself and possibly brought money back to go into the business. Wm Marples was previously in business at Broomspring Lane Sheffield as a sole proprietor, and moved to the new Hibernia Works in 1859. The company was trading as Wm Marples and Sons by 1862, so this would fit with the possibility of an injection of capital along with the energy of the next generation. Of course, all of that is speculation without documentary corroboration, and I don't have that...... All the best, Tony B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158084 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-11 07:51:40 Subject: RE: Re: Camphor blocks and rust I use camphor blocks in my tool chests, which are more or less airtight, so the shop doesn't smell.... however, I LIKE the smell, so its nota big deal for me.... Before I started using camphor, I did get some rust, but none once I started using it.. --JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Brian McInturff Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:01 PM To: Peter Huisman; pedger66@j...; oldtools@r... Subject: RE: [OldTools] Re: Camphor blocks and rust I've been using Camphor for years and haven't any problems with rust. The smell disipates quickly after I've opened the door and entered the shop. My shop space is small right now 12x16 and I have probably 20 blocks out. My shop is a metal building with paneling on the inside and in the winter it can get moist in there. I also wax a lot of my tools for this reason also. When I was in the Military I was a Chemical Specialist and when we ran the CS(Gas) chamber we use to use camphor afterwards to help clear up and clear out the choking agent. It worked great and is where I learned it's effects on steel as an inhibitor. Brian McInturff in Myrtle Beach philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Peter Huisman > To: ; > Date: 3/10/2006 9:07:51 AM > Subject: [OldTools] Re: Camphor blocks and rust > > Phil wrote in part: > > Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who > recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon > at bay? > > PeterH chips in: > > I can categorically say that little has rusted in the entire home of > my elderly MIL. And as for the smell, when the missus & I go visit, > I prefer to sit outside near the back corner of the fence. The corner > selected depending on wind direction. > > BTW, has any-one else experienced watery eyes and a choking sensation > when sat in a room surrounded by concentrated camphor? ;^) > > OT content: no rust. > > PeterH in Perth > anonymous silverfish breeder > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158085 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-11 09:33:28 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary et al, It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog reprints from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after the 1902 on Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz (same as price on bill, as seen above the item number). #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/dz (same again). #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at $10.00/dz (same). #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill as $3.50). #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say $12.00 a dozen years earlier!). The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. The catalog lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus an assorment pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation was minimal, C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to hold. I wonder which. It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large discounts). Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. Dennis > Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one > of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, > a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade > practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this > items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. > > >> Does anyone know the > >> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? > > > > these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common > > even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% > > off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. > > do the math they all work out within a penny or two. > > > > Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 > > Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 > > Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 > > $2.50 > > > > From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. > > I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps the "list" > > prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. > > > > Dennis Heyza ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158086 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-11 09:44:20 Subject: A bit more - was Re: [OldTools] Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? One more thing: Holley, NY is a town (population 1800) thirty miles west of Rochester. I'd bet Mr Edwards operated the local hardware/general store. There is a Richard Edwards still living in town. It might be interesting to send him a letter and see if he knows anything about they chap on the bill. In fact I think I will. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158087 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-11 10:24:48 Subject: working for the man Steve, I've done the same thing: worked for myself for a while until I burned out on it, then for a boss until I burned out on that. And back and forth. Love the freedom of doing my own thing but also like a regular paycheck and benefits. Ah, life! I'm never satisfied. That's probably a good thing. BTW, when I worked for myself I often thought my employee was a fool and my boss was an idiot! Come to think of it, I feel the same way when I work for someone else! Ha! Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158088 ---- From: Thomas Johnson Date: 2006-03-11 09:05:11 Subject: stumbled into a caning tip Greetings GG's \ I've been caning chairs on and off for 30 years ... made various gadgets to help myself out when a hole got too full, something got twisted ... couldn't get a strand under an existing loop. Buy a little packet of nylon cable ties ..... various widths. Shave the end to a chisel point, and voila' Slip it under a loop to get room for a strand ... slip it down through a hole to clear a passage ... I've never found anything to solve a frustrating problem so cheaply and effectively FWIW Tom (as always, necessity is the mother of invention ... and something right at hand usually has a built in answer) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158089 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-11 12:07:56 Subject: Re: Subject: [OldTools] Robert Sorby company history >And lest I forget... here is the web page for Robert Sorby.... >http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/company_info.htm >Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... Gary, Yes, this is a great site! I found it a few weeks ago. I used to work for Neill Tools/Spear & Jackson, who currently own Sorby. The smartest thing that company did, and they didn't do many smart things in the past 15 years, was to leave Sorby alone and let it run itself as a full subsidiary, instead of trying to merge it into the Neill/S&J family - that certainly would have ruined Sorby!!! Great woodworking chisels - may be the best available today! Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158090 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 13:14:21 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Dennis The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the status of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation flat or where there changes? I'll have to log in to some databases I have access to and see if there is anything that I can turn up on that time period. Thanks for the information on Holley, NY. If Holley doesn't have a local historical society, the Rochester Historical Society may have information. Some more research is in the offing. Best Gary On Mar 11, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Gary et al, > > It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog > reprints > from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after > the 1902 on > Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. > > #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz > (same as > price on bill, as seen above the item number). > > #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/dz > (same > again). > > #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at > $10.00/dz > (same). > > #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill as > $3.50). > > #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say $12.00 > a dozen > years earlier!). > > The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. The > catalog > lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus an > assorment > pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. > > So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation was > minimal, > C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to hold. I > wonder which. > > It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large > discounts). > Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. > > Dennis > >> Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one >> of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, >> a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade >> practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this >> items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. >> >>>> Does anyone know the >>>> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? >>> >>> these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common >>> even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% >>> off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. >>> do the math they all work out within a penny or two. >>> >>> Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 >>> Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 >>> Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 >>> $2.50 >>> >>> From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. >>> I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps the >>> "list" >>> prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. >>> >>> Dennis Heyza > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158091 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-03-11 13:26:54 Subject: RE: Palette Wood That is quite lovely!! I have been thinking (for a long time) on and off about building myself some sort of work tote - I really like that!! Very nice - thanks for sharing! ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Roger Van Maren > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:24 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Palette Wood > > > At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: > >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out > >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red > >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple > >or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The > >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance > >between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I > >can get some pictures tonight and post them. > > > >Roger > > Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With > the exception of > the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it > all came from > one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of > household > projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more > specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it > would be. I ended > up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the > one side just > lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can > be added. The > raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the > spalted mystery > wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish > is a BLO, > varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I > put on a coat > of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158092 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-11 15:27:48 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Sorry, I've been napping. Holley is the next village over from me. (I think it's actually part of the town of 'Murray', but that's just an artifact of the complicated New York government.) If you need someone to do any onsite contacting, let me know. Gary K Albion, NY (Close enough to Buffalo NY that I've given up telling people that I live in Albion) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Roberts" To: "Dennis Heyza" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? > Dennis > > The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the status > of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation flat or where > there changes? I'll have to log in to some databases I have access to > and see if there is anything that I can turn up on that time period. > > Thanks for the information on Holley, NY. If Holley doesn't have a > local historical society, the Rochester Historical Society may have > information. Some more research is in the offing. > > Best > Gary > > On Mar 11, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > >> Gary et al, >> >> It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog >> reprints >> from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after >> the 1902 on >> Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. >> >> #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz >> (same as >> price on bill, as seen above the item number). >> >> #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/dz >> (same >> again). >> >> #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at >> $10.00/dz >> (same). >> >> #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill as >> $3.50). >> >> #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say $12.00 >> a dozen >> years earlier!). >> >> The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. The >> catalog >> lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus an >> assorment >> pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. >> >> So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation was >> minimal, >> C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to hold. I >> wonder which. >> >> It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large >> discounts). >> Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. >> >> Dennis >> >>> Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one >>> of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, >>> a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade >>> practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this >>> items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. >>> >>>>> Does anyone know the >>>>> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? >>>> >>>> these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common >>>> even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% >>>> off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. >>>> do the math they all work out within a penny or two. >>>> >>>> Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 >>>> Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 >>>> Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 >>>> $2.50 >>>> >>>> From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. >>>> I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps the >>>> "list" >>>> prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. >>>> >>>> Dennis Heyza >> > > ............................... > Gary Roberts > Dedham, MA > toolemera@m... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158093 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-11 15:35:33 Subject: Eyeball balm Thank you for the eyeball balm. Nothing better than a man working wood with tools he has made from stone and steel using oly his bare hands (well, gloved hands). Then holding the tool down with his foot and holding the buring flame in his hands. Yes. Send this man to talk to this amyejensen person. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158094 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-11 18:29:38 Subject: So many questions Okay, porch denizens, the temperature here in New Brunswick is finally starting to warm up. My shop isn't heated, so I pretty much spend the winter reading and thinking up projects. Today was a balmy 55 degrees, so I decided to dismantle that oak palette I recently mentioned. Two hours later, I have six nice planks in need of a project. I think some of it may go into a tool tote like the one Roger Van Maren recently posted. In the dismantling process, I carefully pried each board off, leaving the nails protruding, and then snipped the ends of the nails off with a pair of hard-wire cutters. This left about 1/4" of nail to pound on so that the nail was less likely to bend when I struck it, which then left a 1/4" length through the other side so I could grab the head with a pry bar. The snipped nails meant I had less metal to pull through the oak. The big surprise was that several of the 4x5 block spacers are also oak. What a coincidence, I have an inshave that needs new handles. So, back to the wish list. I have a few things I'd like to tackle this summer and, as usual, I'm look to the collective wisdom for tips and advice (List Moms, am I allowed to submit a list?). 1. I want to make a frame saw. I built a bow saw a few years ago an used a length of bandsaw blade. It works great so I'm thinking of using the same on the frame saw. What width of blade should I use? 2. I need new handles for my inshave. It was recommended, for peening tangs, that I heat the tang to a dull red. Will a propane torch achieve this? 3. I'd like to make a case for my Stanley 45 and its cutters. Does anyone have plans they'd care to recommend? 4. I've been looking at the Lee Valley hold down with the brass tightening knob. Has anyone bought one of these and, if so, how do you like it? 5. Some of the boxwood spokeshaves I've recently acquired are quite worn. I've already received great info (thanks everyone) on adding brass wear plates. However, some of the wear is pretty deep, leaving a hollow under the wear plate area. Does this require a thick enough piece of brass to avoid bending or do I need to fill in the hollow before I add the brass? Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick Getting all excited about being in my shop without wearing five layers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158095 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 17:51:33 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary It would be great if, at your convenience of course, you could find out if there is a Holly historical society, or a regional historical society that might contain information about the mysterious Ira Edwards. A business directory, town listings, or geneaological list might suffice. A brief search turned up this tidbits: from: http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/edwards4.html We have the following possibility... Edwards, Ira — of Holley, Orleans County, N.Y. Member of New York state assembly from Orleans County, 1888-89. Burial location unknown. from: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyorlean/hllsde.htm We have another possiblity... EDWARDS, IRA OCT 1834 MAR 8, 1925 HUS OF SARAH JANE SMITH, SON OF EDWARD EDWARDS & ANN SHAFER SO DIV 55 but the question remains, is this The Edwards and did he own a hardware or general store in Holley, Orleans County, NY? Best Gary On Mar 11, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Gary K wrote: > Sorry, I've been napping. Holley is the next village over from me. > (I think it's actually part > of the town of 'Murray', but that's just an artifact > of the complicated New York government.) If you need someone to do > any onsite contacting, let me know. > > Gary K > Albion, NY (Close enough to Buffalo NY that > I've given up telling people that I live in Albion) > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Roberts" > To: "Dennis Heyza" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? > > >> Dennis >> The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the >> status of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation >> flat or where there changes? I'll have to log in to some >> databases I have access to and see if there is anything that I >> can turn up on that time period. >> Thanks for the information on Holley, NY. If Holley doesn't have >> a local historical society, the Rochester Historical Society may >> have information. Some more research is in the offing. >> Best >> Gary >> On Mar 11, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: >>> Gary et al, >>> >>> It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog >>> reprints >>> from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after >>> the 1902 on >>> Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. >>> >>> #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz >>> (same as >>> price on bill, as seen above the item number). >>> >>> #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/ >>> dz (same >>> again). >>> >>> #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at >>> $10.00/dz >>> (same). >>> >>> #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill >>> as $3.50). >>> >>> #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say >>> $12.00 a dozen >>> years earlier!). >>> >>> The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. >>> The catalog >>> lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus >>> an assorment >>> pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. >>> >>> So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation >>> was minimal, >>> C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to >>> hold. I >>> wonder which. >>> >>> It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large >>> discounts). >>> Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>>> Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one >>>> of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least >>>> expect it, >>>> a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade >>>> practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this >>>> items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. >>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know the >>>>>> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? >>>>> >>>>> these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common >>>>> even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% >>>>> off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. >>>>> do the math they all work out within a penny or two. >>>>> >>>>> Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = >>>>> $6.93 >>>>> Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 >>>>> Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less >>>>> 5 >>>>> $2.50 >>>>> >>>>> From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. >>>>> I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps >>>>> the "list" >>>>> prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. >>>>> >>>>> Dennis Heyza >>> >> ............................... >> Gary Roberts >> Dedham, MA >> toolemera@m... >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, >> usage, >> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158096 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 17:53:27 Subject: the A2A British archives For those moments when you have nothing to do, try out the search function of A2A, the British archives search engine. Enter Planemaker and see what you get. http://www.a2a.org.uk/ best Gary ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158097 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-12 08:38:43 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: block planes Steve wrote in part: The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. PeterH asks: Are Roger's studies documented for public reading Steve, and if so, where might I find this information? PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158098 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-11 16:46:01 Subject: blade up planes : was indirect gloat and tropical Jim, Never tried back bevels seems neat. What I was suggesting with bevel up blades was that the sharpening angle effects the cutting angle unlike a normal bevel down plane. IE if I change the bevel angle I can change the effective cutting angle from normal (45) to york(50) or higher if neccessary. Joel McCarty I've been playing with so-called back bevels on planes to get a higher effective cutting angle, and it works well for reducing tearout (for me on various figured domestic and exotic hardwoods, but YMMV). I just got a call that the high-angle frog for my LN4.5 came in today. I don't actually expect to get different performance from it vs using a back-bevel, but I wanted to try. I can't imagine that bevel up or down makes any difference if the cutting angle is the same, although one might be less likely to chatter. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158099 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-11 19:55:07 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: block planes On Mar 11, 2006, at 7:38 PM, Peter Huisman wrote: > Steve wrote in part: > > The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger > Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. > > PeterH asks: > > Are Roger's studies documented for public reading Steve, and if so, > where might I find this information? > > > Please see Sandy's post from earlier in the thread: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml? message_id=158040&submit_thread=1#message I'll add that I have had a number of emails saying there is a snowball's chance in hell of John Walter revising and/or reprinting his Guide. Is there no alternative for someone to get rights and reprint the Guide? Say it ain't so that the Guide is dead and gone. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158100 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-03-11 17:59:34 Subject: RE: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" Isn't Galena, the next checkpoint, where the Koontz's are? Lew in relatively warmer So Cal -----Original Message----- From: Bill Kasper [mailto:dragonlist@i...] Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:45 AM To: oldtools@r... list Subject: [OldTools] OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_sp_ot/iditarod way to go! bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158101 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-11 17:17:18 Subject: RE: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" >Isn't Galena, the next checkpoint, where the Koontz's are? Yep--Doug Swingley went through last night. Not our list mom Chris Swingley, just to clarify ;^) And I shook hands this morning with Susan Butcher, who is sort of a hero of mine. She's not racing this year, but then, neither am I. She has a lot better reason than I do, of course--http://www.susanbutcher.com/ PK ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158102 ---- From: Benjamin Mullin Date: 2006-03-11 21:42:09 Subject: Yankee 41A and other push type drills Its time for another question for the wise folks on the list. I picked up a fairly shiny Yankee 41A at an estate sale Friday afternoon. The motion was a little jerky, but a little oiling fixed that quickly. The handle came with about a half dozen bits. These bits look more like a reamer than a drill to me, but then again I have no experience with these kinds of things. So the question is, what is the proper usage of this tool. I've put a bit in the chuck and had a go at some wood. Just a bunch of rapid compressions on the spring loaded action. It does make a nice clean hole its just a little slow going. Am I going about it right? Ben Who was very suprised to turn on the TV this morning to watch St. Roy and found "Glue Gun Decor: How To Dress Up Your Home" instead. And next week looks to be something else. What have they done with my St. Roy? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158103 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-11 21:16:47 Subject: Re: So many questions On Mar 11, 2006, at 2:29 PM, Jim McVicar wrote: [snip, per FAQ] > 1. I want to make a frame saw. I built a bow saw a few years ago an > used a > length of bandsaw blade. It works great so I'm thinking of using > the same on > the frame saw. What width of blade should I use? Reg'lar 1/2" wide, 6 tpi, non-hook teeth D*lta bubblepack bandsaw blade from the Borg will do. > 3. I'd like to make a case for my Stanley 45 and its cutters. Does > anyone > have plans they'd care to recommend? Not a plan, but how about a picture or two: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=262 This is made of pine boards, with "candlebox" lid that slides into grooves. Bottom is floating panel in grooves. I made it big enough to stow the plane with long rods installed. The 2 cutter boxes are in a tiered rack to one side. The design on the lid is taken from the stock instruction sheet for this vintage (SW), expanded on a photocopier, traced on lid, and etched with woodburner. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158104 ---- From: "Thomas Graham" Date: 2006-03-12 06:11:59 Subject: PATINA Sale/Auction GGs, Yesterday's PATINA tool sale and auction is history. And I can relax until next year. This was my first year for running the dealer sale part of the event and I was almost certain I would screw it up. Well, I didn't. Or think I didn't. There were a few minor glitches, but we survived. Lessons learned for next year. We had over 50 dealers with 80 or so tables inside. Tailgater's stretched in two rows from one end of the parking lot to the other. The weather was better than anything in recent memory. Usually there is cold, rain and/or snow (or both), and a biting wind. Yesterday was absolutely balmy. I want to thank Tony Seo and other OTL members for their posting about the sale. I had fully intended to send an announcement and directions to the Damascus VFD hall, but just wasn't able to do it. I was able to talk fleetingly with Tony and ran into Steve Reynolds. He said he had seen Todd Hughes . I am sure other list members were there as well, but didn't see anybody else. Probably, because I was too busy running around. I was the chubby guy in the red suspenders with a worried look on my face. Till next year, Tom Graham Round Hill, VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158105 ---- From: Alf Date: 2006-03-12 08:25:49 Subject: Re: So many questions Jim McVicar wrote: > 4. I've been looking at the Lee Valley hold down with the brass tightening > knob. Has anyone bought one of these and, if so, how do you like it? Bought one, oh, 5 or 6 months ago and am now wondering why I hesitated so long. Excellent grip and the screw tightening rather than the whack-it-wiv-a-mallet type fits my more 20thC workshop. My one worry was that turning that knob would be tedious and slow, but once it's slackened off and no longer actually gripping it spins very easily and hasn't proved to be an issue at all. > 5. Some of the boxwood spokeshaves I've recently acquired are quite worn. > I've already received great info (thanks everyone) on adding brass wear > plates. However, some of the wear is pretty deep, leaving a hollow under the > wear plate area. Does this require a thick enough piece of brass to avoid > bending or do I need to fill in the hollow before I add the brass? How about a wear "plate" in a suitably hard-wearing wood and solve both problems in one fell swoop? Cheers, Alf In Cornwall, west o' England, where the drizzle looks set in for the day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158106 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-12 20:48:28 Subject: re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary wrote in part: Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. PeterH chips in: At the risk of drawing the ire of the listmoms, this discussion also applies to handtools. In Australia, distributors will provide price lists, and then, thanks mainly to that "wunnerful invenchen" - the IBM compatable pc and associated software - the buyers are categorised into discount groups. So PeterH Enterprises, because he does AUD$5 million a month, gets 55 percent off retail. Gary Roberts Homespun on the other hand, doesn't want an account, pays cash for everything - "yessir money straight into into your till", and for that priviledge pays retail less only 10 percent discount. The rub here is that PeterH Ent., hangs on to their creditor's money for 120 days. Huh? Who's the goose here? Names and characters assassinated here is purely accidental, and bordering on the ficticious. Truth is, whenever I go to purchase something where the selling party asks if I "got an account", I always - always - respond with the line: "Nope, but you know what that means doncha? - You get the money upfront, right now, so gimme the best price you got to encourage the deal, and we'll save us both some money". Truth is stranger than fiction. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158107 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-12 21:14:01 Subject: Re: boiling oil John wrote in part: As an inveterate user of the kerosene-fuelled blow torch I must admit that the smell of kerosene has never particularly bothered me and I find it fairly safe to deal with. My old dog might have another view as I came near on one occasion to setting him alight as, on my giving the torch a couple of pumps whilst the pipes were not yet hot enough, it became something of a mini flame-thrower just as he ambled in front of it. PeterH chips in: My SWMBO, who spent many of her younger years on an annual camp-out with her parents and assocated families, confesses to enjoying the smell of a lit kerosene lamp. I must add that these people were well intune with a correctly set flame and were quite intolerant of a sooty glass, as I found out to my discomfort. To encompass this discussion into the theme of this list: I asked of some people, some time ago, about how I might protect new jarrah reeded decking that I had laid for our balcony. The concesus was that a mix of LSO and kero would do the trick. Being difficult to persuade by nature, I sought the advice of those with a vested interest in telling me the opposite of fokelore, the paint store bloke. His argument, that the painting of a mix of kero and LSO would blacken the wood, instantly flashed visions of actual applications I has witnessed of our wonderful Red Jarrah hardwood rendered almost colourless and a sickly black, after treatment with the aforementioned concoction and the passage of several months of diverse weather. I settled on his (pricey) recommendation and after proper application have not had the occasion to regret the purchase. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158108 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-12 09:12:19 Subject: Re: re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Regarding discounting of merchandise Peter added - > In Australia, distributors will provide price lists, and then, thanks > mainly to that "wunnerful invenchen" - the IBM compatable pc and > associated software - the buyers are categorised into discount groups. > So PeterH Enterprises, because he does AUD$5 million a month, gets > 55 percent off retail. Gary Roberts Homespun on the other hand, doesn't > want an account, pays cash for everything - "yessir money straight into > into your till", and for that priviledge pays retail less only 10 > percent discount. The rub here is that PeterH Ent., hangs on > to their creditor's money for 120 days. Huh? Who's the goose here? After stating I understood the concept but NOT the purpose of 60/10/10 (or whatever) discounting, it dawned on me last night someone did attempt to explain it to me once. It's been some years but here's the general idea: You are a retailer. As such, you pay the manufacturer 60% of list. Then you agree to put the manufacturer's logo (say 12" x 10") on the area where the merchandise is. That gets you a 10% "high visibility" discount. Then you place the manufacturer's logo in your advertising flyer (important for non-big-name companies). That gets you 10% more. And so forth and so on. I wondered why they didn't just get the cumulative discount instead of all the above. I was told this concept has existed in the industry forever (obviously based on Gary's billhead), buyers get their jollies and impress the boss by showing how many discounts they squeezed from the supplier, and old habits are just hard to die. The best example I can think of at the consumer level is auto insurance. They love to tell you how your premium is $1200 but by virtue of your good driving record, age, multiple cars, anti-lock brakes, ad nauseum, YOU only pay $500. Admit it now, it does make you feel good, doesn't it? ;^) Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158109 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-12 12:36:38 Subject: 200 items per hour That's what I counted at Saturday's LFOD auction in Indianapolis. ISTM that a lot of things were sold to absentee bidders, and no one was willing to challenge, once Bill Baxter said "I have _n_dollars on this who'll give me...." I dunno if experience says that absentee bidders have deep pockets and it isn't worth competing, or what. Steve Linebeck was there early, but didn't stay for the auction - I think he said something about having to take a daughter back to college. ( I know where that's at! =B^O ) Chris Berger was there and I _think_ I saw Tom Volpe. The woodies were either out of my price range, or crap (or both!) but I did feed the M-F monkey, just a bit. I picked up a Type 3 #22 (length of the sole in inches, Jeff) jointer in what I'd call Excellent condition. The japanning was listed as "99% original" on Martin's tag, but maybe I'm too skeptical. OTOH, there's only a teensy bit of rust where the user's left hand would sit when planing. Maybe it hadn't seen much use, after all. I also picked up a small box-lot: a Buck Rodgers #170 pushdrill, and #104 eggbeater both in Good condition, the red plastic shows some significant wear on both. There were some drillpoints in the handles of each - not a complete set, and in the #104 they were fairly recent "Yankee" style. In addition, there were two NIB items - a #107 carving set that's SWMBO will get for Mothers day, and a #29X automatic screwdriver. The carving set had a Washita slipstone, and a "NORTON" carborundum stone, the screwdriver had two bits for slotted screws and three drillpoints in the original little plastic "bottle." Don't think the price was too gloatable: US$65 for the plane, and US $60 for the box-lot, but not too bad. Not too bad. I didn't stay till the bitter end - so I didn't find out what a particular marking-gage went for. It looked a lot like the one the Leachmeister shows at http://www.supertool.com/etcetera/isanctum/ is1.htm "the extremely rare Brown & Barry Patent of July 7th, 1868." I didn't examine it closely, so I might have mistaken another sort for that one. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... "I know no class of my fellowmen, however just, enlightened, and humane, which can be wisely and safely trusted absolutely with the liberties of any other class." --Fredrick Douglass ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158110 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-12 12:49:37 Subject: Re: Yankee 41A and other push type drills Ben Mullin wrote: > I picked up a fairly shiny Yankee 41A at an estate sale Friday > afternoon. The motion was a little jerky, but a little oiling fixed > that quickly. The handle came with about a half dozen bits. These > bits look more like a reamer than a drill to me, but then again I have > no experience with these kinds of things. Good pickup, Ben. Those shiny YANKEE No. 41s are nice tools and look great to boot. They always seem to respond nicely to a drop of oil. You may want to attempt to clean it out with a solvent, such as mineral spirits or WD40 before oiling (or re-oiling in this case). It is best to flush out dirt and grit before applying oil. The bits are reamer-looking because they are the fluted type for use in wood and wood byproducts. Twist drills are (in my opinion) the byproduct of the machine age and developed for metal. No real reason to have twist drills in a tool meant for carpentry and woodworking. > > So the question is, what is the proper usage of this tool. I've put a > bit in the chuck and had a go at some wood. Just a bunch of rapid > compressions on the spring loaded action. It does make a nice clean > hole its just a little slow going. Am I going about it right? You seem to have a natural talent for the tool, as you got a nice clean hole. Believe me, some don't have the aptitude to use a pushdrill. As a comparison, have you ever noticed the way people use a paper towel dispenser in a restroom? I'm speaking of one of the types that have a handle which is pushed down to deliver a length of paper, and requires a series of depressions to get an adequate length of paper, with the paper being removed by ripping it off along a length of serrated knife. Ever notice how some people yank down on the lever as if they are trying to yank the dispenser off the wall? And have you noticed how when frustrated by the dispenser's unwillingness to be displaced in this manner, they attempt to remove it by yanking on the towel with a force normally reserved for a tug-of-war match? Even if their intention is to save time rather than dispenser vandalism, how much time can you save, a picosecond? Good pushdrill technique requires one to get into touch with their sensual side. Let the pushdrill handle snuggle into your palm. Hold it with a pressure that is firm yet not a deathgrip. Aim the pointy end at the spot to be drilled. Orient your tool perpendicularly. Apply a firm, yet completely controlled, thrust along the axial line of the pushdrill. Apply yielding resistance as the pushdrill naturally springs back to its original length, don't let the point jump out of its hole. The spring in the tool and the spiral mechanism are going to want to turn at a certain speed, a resonance if you will. Get in touch with this natural speed of the tool. I've said before, and I will repeat, the tool will want you to pump it with a speed and firmness that is the same as other pleasurable pumping experiences (wink, wink). You shouldn't rush the action anymore than you would rush any other pleasurable act. Enjoy the ride, take it nice and easy. Derive all the joy you can from it. Should your problem be that the drill points are not sharp, they can be sharpened easily and quickly. The points only cut at the beveled ends, the flutes do no cutting. You merely have to hone the points at the same angles that they are made. The largest point sizes is very often not worn much. It can serve as a model for the angles as it is large and easy to see. Use a stone, diamond plate, or scarysharp paper to hone the point, being careful to retain the angles. Now, if all the angles are messed up and you have no model, or if you are detail minded sharpener and insist on the last word of precision, you can use a drill point gage. They come in a simple flat steel rule type, a nice accessory for a machinist rule (such as the Starrett No 22C, http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/groupf.asp?GroupID=211 ), or the bonerific, gizmotic, Morse type http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=1008126&type=UT I'm a big fan of YANKEE tools and that includes the many pushdrill models they made. But no pushdrill made by them or anyone else compares to the model that Millers Falls (I think) made for Craftsman. They are extremely well made, hold up very well over time, have a see-through point magazine, look great, have a powerful smooth moving spring, and have a great feel in the hand. I don't know if they have a model number. They look similar to the No 100 Buck Rogers pushdrill, but have different materials of construction. The Buck Rogers ones don't hold up well over time. Get plenty of them, you have GITs to kit up. Kids love these pushdrills. And you need backup yourself. Regards, Steve - just say, "No more fun tool in the till than a pushdrill" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158111 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-12 10:25:23 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil On Mar 12, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Peter Huisman wrote: [snip nostalgic campout recollections, sparked by the smell of burning kerosene] > I asked how I might protect new jarrah decking. The consensus > was that a mix of > LSO and kero would do the trick. I sought the advice of the paint > store bloke. His argument, > that the painting of a mix of kero and LSO would blacken the wood, > instantly flashed > visions of actual applications I has witnessed of our wonderful Red > Jarrah hardwood > rendered almost colourless and a sickly black, after treatment with > the aforementioned > concoction and the passage of several months of diverse weather. How 'bout a Blast From the Past, archive msg 4721, August 27, 1996: Tom Holloway wrote: > Lot of talk on the list about "mineral spirits" in rustbucket > degunking process. The question: what's the substantive, meaningful, > chemical difference, if any, between mineral spirits and kerosene? And is > commercial "paint thinner" anything different? That is, other than price. > Around here, mineral spirits goes for about $6.50 per gallon, paint thinner > about $4.00 per gallon--and if I take my own blue can to the pump at the > side of the gas station I get kerosene for $1.19/gallon. > So, seriously, is there any real advantage to using mineral spirits > over kerosene for old tool cleaning? Dave Berry replied: A while back I posted a summary about naptha vs mineral spirits. Basically, they're nearly the same thing (pure saturated hydrocarbons), but differ in volatility (naptha is "lighter" = more volatile). Both are extremely mild on reactively cured finishes, like japaning, varnishes, etc. Kerosene is also _mainly_ saturated hydrocarbons, but it's chock full of all kinds of aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene, not to mention generic impurities known around the chem lab by the technical terms "brown gunk" or sh*t. One of the reasons it's so cheap is that it costs money to refine (purify) kerosene into mineral spirits. Pure hydrocarbons are colorless, last kerosene I saw was almost orange pink. Also, kerosene is even less volatile than mineral spirits, so it will take longer to dry. Yah, kerosene probably isn't that bad for cleaning tools, but (1) work outside, with lots of ventilation, and (2) don't cry to me if it acts as a somewhat stronger solvent and strips off the japaning or whatever. -Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158112 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-12 13:51:05 Subject: PATINA Report 2006 Yesterday was the festive PATINA Spring tool meet, and it was a great time. Tom and I arrived in Moby III at about 6:15, just in time to claim one of the last spots at the front of the tailgate area. I was surprised that there were that many tailgaters set up that early as usually the lot is half to 2/3s full by then and fills up at around 7. I had reminded the Sawnut that our method of operation is to park and LOOK FOR TOOLS FIRST, than set up to sell. He lost his mind a couple of years ago and setup first. We have a tendency to separate as we prowl around. When we met up again I had acquired a scraper plane and a pushdrill. Surprise, surprise - Dr. D8 had bought saws. I had noticed a lot of patternmaker's vises this year. A ton of user benchplanes were on sale, at a wide range of prices. Saws out the wazoo. Even more chisels were out the wazoo. A number of old workbenches were available. We set up to sell and moved a few things. Tom sold quite a few chisels. Not a lot dollarwise, but we both put a few shekels in the pocket in anticipation of buying things in the hall. The weather was so nice that folks stayed in the tailgate area even past the time when the unwashed masses are allowed into the hall for free. Although the tailgaters had arrive earlier than usual, I think there were fewer overall. A second row of parked cars never did form behind the front area whereas in previous years there has always been one. I think there were less attendees overall. There was not a total crush of people in the hall as there always has been, and it cleared out much earlier than usual. I was skunked on tools. Hardly anything on my want list was available. I bought a GTD catalog and that was it. I made a third complete pass of the hall whereas I usually do two - I was thinking the third time would be the charm and I would find some great items. Nothing turned up. Tom got a great bargain on a Millers Falls No 18c plane in a condition that would make the west coast MFia Don, Ken Greenburg, swoon. I went back out to the balmy breezes and bright sunshine of the tailgate and put out some things again, whilst chatting with Tom and Joe Rogers. I decided to make another pass of the parking lot and two spots over found a Disston No 12 with a crisp nib and a full blade. I got permission to take it back to show to Tom and Joe and feign that I wasn't sure if I should buy it. After irritating the hell out of both of them, I went back and bought if for a buck less than the tag price. They were incredulous that a No 12 would still be there that late in the day when everyone was looking for one, and the very few there were north of the $100 mark. I was fortunate to talk to a bunch of great guys during the course of the day. Bill Duffield and Joe Rogers spent a good amount of time talking tools. Charlie Driggs was looking great after some recent surgery. He looked empty handed when he left, though. Met Tom Graham just before we left, and he looked busier than a one armed paper hanger. We met Chris Gochnour from Fine Woodworking and a fine gentleman he is. I had brought a Gage No 5 jackplane that I hadn't looked at for months. I was asking a high amount for it in the morning and no one bit. When I was putting it away before going in the hall, the bright sun showed it to be in far less condition than I realized. I felt like a moron for my original asking price. I chopped it in half in the afternoon and Chris picked it up. He and Tom found they have a Utah connection. My usual policy is not to stop and chat with folks in the hall during the first hour or so. I feel as though I'm busy looking for treasure, and so are they and they would appreciate not being delayed from their appointed rounds. So when I saw someone who looked like Bill Ghio, and someone who looked like Chris Schwartz (who said he wasn't coming this year) I didn't attempt to meet up. I didn't see them later, so never determined if it was them or not. Tony Seo, the new Man in Black, stopped by whilst trolling the tailgate. Anatol Pallilo stopped by late in the day and discussed the DVD releases of his earlier video productions. Of course, we met up with Todd Hughes and his buddy Joe Rut. Todd, as you might guess, had the quote of the day. I was standing there a couple years ago when Bill Duffield asked Todd to sell him one of his many anvils. When Todd said no, poor Bill looked just like a kid who watched the schoolyard bully crush his lollipop. So yesterday, I was harassing Todd to sell Bill one of his anvils and he said, "You know, I kinda like to collect stuff you can stack". I wish you continued good success in your stacks, Todd. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158113 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-12 14:08:53 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes John Edwards continues to express puzzlement concerning handled (jack) rabbet planes: >Could a fellow Galoot enlighten me on the mysteries of the wooden rabbet >(rebate, Jeff) plane ? > >Now I understand fillisters with the built in adjustable fence. >The fence and depth stop combine to control the width and depth of cut. > >... > >Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) > >http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/OhioTool/Rabbet.htm > >Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What >would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. >Cross grain on a panel using a batten as a guide with the nickers down ??? >Long grain with the nickers up and the batten again ?? How would you control >depth ?? John et al, I think your questions haven't received much response for a couple of reenforcing reasons. First, there hasn't been much written about the purpose and role of the handled rabbet planes. Second, their lack of "features" (depth stops and fences) is, likely, an indication that they were intended for use in a diverse set of circumstances. So, it probably won't be possible to narrow down their usage to just one or two applications. As you've already surmised, the nickers seem to suggest cross-grain usage, at least, part of the time. (Incidentally, though not often found, regular rabbet planes were also offered with nickers in the trade catalogues.) Also, the lack of a fence does suggest the use of a batten, or some "guiding" feature, to begin the cut - whether along the grain or across. The lack of a depth stop seems particularly worrisome to you. As with regular rabbet planes, this simply suggests that they were typically worked to a gauge line of some sort. In my experience, this approach allows for the rabbet plane to be quite versatile and capable of quite accurate work. There is an erroneous view abroad that rabbet planes are really only useful for preliminary, and/or "rough" work. Early on, I was fortunate enough to acquire a skewed 1 1/2" Ohio Tool rabbet plane in very good working order. In doing mostly cabinet work, I found that I could "rough in" a rabbet fairly quickly with a fillister plane (stopping just shy of the gauge lines on both surfaces), then do the final dimensioning and clean-up with the rabbet plane. The lack of a depth stop and fence allowed me to work both surfaces in either direction, and I could deal with any pesky tear-out while accomplishing a good deal of accuracy - just by planing to the gauge lines. I've recently run across fairly early textual information which parallels my experience quite nicely - so I'm far from the first to discover this. I believe much the same can be said for handled rabbet planes. By simple virtue of the fact that they were longer, and, generally, at the wider end of the width range, it would seem that handled rabbet planes were intended for larger scale work than "regular" rabbet planes. The ones with center totes/handles may have been offered for those who simply preferred handles. Or, possibly, to help make the wider planes more manageable. The offset handle, as shown in the linked illustration, would provide clearance for holding the plane while working near obstructions. In short, I believe these planes were primarily intended for use by people working with larger timbers and/or heavy planking. Framers, bridge builders (longer handled rabbet planes are listed for bridge building), ship's carpenters, coach-makers (possibly), and millwrights all come to mind. In line with this, back in 1977, Ken Bassett (in _Plane Talk_), reported having acquired a millwright's "dapping plane" from a retired sawmill millwright. It was a rabbet plane with an axially adjustable handle, and was described as "... used for cutting daps; notches in timbers to receive other timbers. ... ." Just one of many uses for these planes, I believe. Sorry my reply may not have arrived at the clarity and specificity you might have liked, but, hopefully, it may help generate more discussion and understanding of this topic. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158114 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-12 12:12:16 Subject: Mystical Dovetail Joint This is most interesting. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6259849138 I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the others on the porch think the solution is. A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when incorporated into a real project. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158115 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-12 15:32:28 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Searching for I. Sorby on this site I came across this: > Although John Sorby & Sons was acquired first in 1849 by Lockwood Brothers - cousins of the family - and later by both Turner, Naylor and Co and William Marples, the "I and H Sorby" mark was still used well into the twentieth century. The picture is further clouded another edge tool manufacturer, C & J Turner - latterly Joseph Turner and Co - using the "I. Sorby" trade mark which they acquired from Sorby and Turner.< The reason for my interest is a chisel I inherited that has I. Sorby Cast Steel on the back (Bevel Edge Side) and on the reverse a very good likeness of Punch and raised letters W W. So it would seem this is in fact a chisel made by Turner. Has anyone seen this combination of marks before? Any idea on dates? Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158116 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-12 15:30:17 Subject: Re: re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Thanks to Dennis and Peter for more fodder for the mill. I reviewed some other billheads to refresh my memory. There are a variety of formats used to indicate discounts given. Methinks this might be an article in the making IF I can deduce the meaning of the numbers. Eventually most of these billheads will be online, at which time I'll solicit opinions. An initial review seems to indicate that big time buyers received the discounts and small time retailers didn't. But that might be a function of the wholesaler's well being? Keep you posted Gary On Mar 12, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Regarding discounting of merchandise Peter added - > >> In Australia, distributors will provide price lists, and then, thanks >> mainly to that "wunnerful invenchen" - the IBM compatable pc and >> associated software - the buyers are categorised into discount >> groups. >> So PeterH Enterprises, because he does AUD$5 million a month, gets >> 55 percent off retail. Gary Roberts Homespun on the other hand, >> doesn't >> want an account, pays cash for everything - "yessir money straight >> into >> into your till", and for that priviledge pays retail less only 10 >> percent discount. The rub here is that PeterH Ent., hangs on >> to their creditor's money for 120 days. Huh? Who's the goose here? > > After stating I understood the concept but NOT the purpose of > 60/10/10 (or > whatever) discounting, it dawned on me last night someone did > attempt to > explain it to me once. It's been some years but here's the general > idea: > > You are a retailer. As such, you pay the manufacturer 60% of list. > Then you > agree to put the manufacturer's logo (say 12" x 10") on the area > where the > merchandise is. That gets you a 10% "high visibility" discount. > Then you > place the manufacturer's logo in your advertising flyer (important for > non-big-name companies). That gets you 10% more. And so forth and > so on. > > I wondered why they didn't just get the cumulative discount instead > of all > the above. I was told this concept has existed in the industry forever > (obviously based on Gary's billhead), buyers get their jollies and > impress > the boss by showing how many discounts they squeezed from the > supplier, and > old habits are just hard to die. > > The best example I can think of at the consumer level is auto > insurance. > They love to tell you how your premium is $1200 but by virtue of > your good > driving record, age, multiple cars, anti-lock brakes, ad nauseum, > YOU only > pay $500. > > Admit it now, it does make you feel good, doesn't it? ;^) > > Dennis > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158117 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-12 15:49:04 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, I had just posted my query about I. Sorby and the Punch trademark when I noticed Gary's post. So a quick visit to the link he gave, came up with this: Records of Hadfields Limited of East Hecla Works, Sheffield. Catalogue Ref. MNHD Creator(s): Hadfields Limited of Sheffield FILE - Price list for punch brand tools. - ref. MNHD1257 - date: 1928 hit[from Scope and Content] Inscribed:- 1928 Edition / I. Sorby / Price List / Turner, Naylor and Co Ltd. So it appears I do not have a Sorby chisel! This Old Tools group is something else! Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158118 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-12 12:49:50 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Mar 12, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > This is most interesting. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > > I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the > others on the > porch think the solution is. > > A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when > incorporated into a real project. I have watched St. Roy cut this joint. It is cut on a diagonal to the flats, and is put together the same way. Simple when you see him do it. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158119 ---- From: Dave Strommen Date: 2006-03-12 15:55:30 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint I suspect they are like sliding dovetails that run to adjoining sides instead of opposite. They just slide together on the diagonal - corner to corner. Dave Strommen On Mar 12, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > This is most interesting. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > > I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the > others on the > porch think the solution is. > > A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when > incorporated into a real project. > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158120 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-03-12 20:50:59 Subject: Split Nut Tutorial Again GGs, I had a little time today to tweak some features of the last tutorial I did. I created a Microsoft Word document that has links to the pictures on GIC. The file is much smaller (44k) for those folks with dialup service. The larger PDF files are no longer available. Ping me if you want that. Download the file here: http://home.comcast.net/~cpmueller/Split_Nut_Replacement-Small.doc If your saw is completely missing a post and nut, ping me as I have a nice way of fixing that situation too. Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158121 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-12 13:05:07 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes On Mar 12, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Don McConnell wrote: [an erudite treatise on the subject, responding to John Edwards, most snipped here] > The lack of a depth stop seems particularly worrisome to you. As with > regular rabbet planes, this simply suggests that they were typically > worked to a gauge line of some sort. In my experience, this approach > allows for the rabbet plane to be quite versatile and capable of > quite accurate work. If a mostly-metal plane guy can enter the conversation: A plane I use a lot is a 1940s-era Stanley #10 1/2, billed as the "carriage maker's rabbet plane," which was never fitted with a depth stop. Same for its larger brother, counterintuitively numbered 10. I like it because it can be used in either direction, thus always with the grain, and as Don suggests, I use it to work to a gauged line. I surmise someone decided to use the "carriage maker's" label to distinguish it from "cabinetmaker's" rabbet plane, which would presumably be fitted with a depth stop (the Stanley version being numbered #78). Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158122 ---- From: "Bramel, Jim" Date: 2006-03-12 16:12:36 Subject: RE: Re: boiling oil I wish I could get kerosene for $1.19 a gallon now. I bought five gallons in December to heat my "area" (26' X 24') and it was $3.29 a gallon. I used all five gallons that afternoon. I have not heated it since then - no woodworking either. Jim ________________________________ From: oldtools-bounces@r... on behalf of Tom Holloway Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 1:25 PM To: Galoots Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: boiling oil On Mar 12, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Peter Huisman wrote: [snip nostalgic campout recollections, sparked by the smell of burning kerosene] How 'bout a Blast From the Past, archive msg 4721, August 27, 1996: Tom Holloway wrote: if I take my own blue can to the pump at the > side of the gas station I get kerosene for $1.19/gallon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158123 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-12 13:17:50 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Sunday 12 March 2006 12:49 pm, James Thompson wrote: > I have watched St. Roy cut this joint. It is cut on a diagonal to the > flats, and is put together the same way. Simple when you see him do it. On Sunday 12 March 2006 12:55 pm, Dave Strommen wrote: > I suspect they are like sliding dovetails that run to adjoining sides > instead of opposite. They just slide together on the diagonal - > corner to corner. If I understand you guys correctly, this is how I figured it was done, but creating a sliding dovetail that incorporates to adjoining sides, so that the dovetail is actually angled, allowing the pins to slide in from the diagonal. Dave's description is more of how I viewed this, and I think Jim is saying the same thing. Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in email. http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg Anyone have any other interesting joints that seem impossible? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158124 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-12 13:34:50 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint It seems like I've seen this in one of St. Roy's books. I borrowed the book from the library, so I don't have it at my disposal at the moment. But then again, to look it up would be cheating, right? :) Cheers, Alex Alan says: > This is most interesting. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the > others on the porch think the solution is. > A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when > incorporated into a real project. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158125 ---- From: "Bruce Love" Date: 2006-03-12 16:55:00 Subject: RE: PATINA Sale/Auction GG who went to PATINA yesterday, I didn't make it to PATINA as, unfortunately, I had the displeasure of being home with a nasty stomach flu. So, thank you for waiting until my stomach is strong enough to handle the details of everything I missed - but now I want details! Bruce Love Feeling MUCH better in Pipersville, PA and now looking forward to the CRAFTS auction in three weeks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158126 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-12 17:05:02 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail video with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half- lap joint as well. Cheers, John aland@s... writes: Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in email. http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158127 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-12 17:12:26 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions I apologize for coming in quite late on this thread, but I've got a backlog of postings and I'm whittling away at it ... > Question. Is there any reference book, spoken word, > rule of thumb, any scrap of information available > that talks about profiles appropriate to a period? > I like Federal and Chippendale but don't know if my > moulders are appropriate. How does a galoot find > out? Pete, I haven't seen such a book, but that obviously doesn't mean it was never out there. If someone else responds and comes up with it, I'd like to know too. I'd suggest that maybe some details become obvious from reviewing some of the better books on furniture. Of the ones I have in my little library, I'll suggest the following: 1 The New Fine Points of Furniture (Sack) -- think I heard that he passed away last year, but Sack is or was a giant in the antiques trade and an infrequent guest on Antiques Roadshow providing tutorials and valuations on very high end furniture. His book is mostly photos of the worlds' best contrasted with middling stuff and then with dreck, with few details explained in closeup, but the photos are very crisp and professional and could be helpful. 2 Period Furniture Details (Bird) -- I wouldn't bother right now if you don't already have it, as it won't answer this question. Bulk of the book is devoted to how to use machinery to imitate various details found on antiques, without regard to whether they belong on what is in progress. 3 Furniture Antiques Checklist (Davison / Miller's Series out of the UK) -- This one has a couple of pages on moldings and pediments, and several more on feet, showing the types that are consistent with certain styles and periods, but lacking in the level of detail I suspect we'd really like to answer your question. Given that the book is partially intended to help in identifying fakes, this is a logical place to look. 4 Federal Furniture (Dunbar) -- an interesting book on how to make it, but only limited discussion on what details are appropriate to Federal furniture (a good book for its purpose, however). Gottshall's books, 'Making Furniture Masterpieces' and 'Making Antique Furniture Reproductions' are also resources for how to build them more than how to determine which moldings are appropriate (both are also helpful for what they are). 5 Construction of American Furniture Treasures (Margon) presents meticulous drawings of the construction of 37 fine museum pieces, including itemizing the moldings used in each via cross-sectional drawings. Names of the profiles are not provided, but if you have a reference on profiles, they can be figured out. Thus, more clues are provided in this one. The bibliography lists a pile of scholarly references, one of which may have the details you are seeking. 6 The introduction to each of the Antique Hunter's Guide series books on American Furniture (I have 'chests, cupboards, desks & other pieces' and 'tables, chairs, sofas & beds') have 1-2 page sections on each of the major periods, describing the key changes in features. Detail to the level that would answer your question isn't provided, but the reader is referred to three period books for more detail -- as follows: 7 The Gentleman and Cabinetmaker's Director (Chippendale) is a design book originally intended to help the purchaser and the craftsman define what was wanted in style of the piece to be ordered, from the London view. This one defines Chippendale style, and the American interpretation of Chippendale is generally less elaborate so the moldings would likely be a bit different. The plates in this book are very elaborate, including details of moldings. 8 After Chippendale's work came The Cabinet-Maker and Upholsterer's Guide (Hepplewhite, published by his widow) and as adapted to American tastes it defined early Federal furniture. This book includes plates of specific pediment and molding designs, with all drawings quite detailed and clear. 9 Just few years later the Cabinetmaker and Upholsterer's Drawing Book (Sheraton) came out, and defined the Sheraton style of the Federal period. I don't yet own a copy of this book, and therefore can't pull it out and comment on its details, but I expect it is similar to the other two above based upon memory of having paged through it in the past. There are several books out on Shaker furniture (I have Moser's) and probably some references on Empire styles too, but the latter does little for me and is more loaded with carved shapes than moldings. These styles were outside your period of interest anyway. Regardless, it could be that the answer to your question / quest lies in buying the last three (7, 8 & 9) references, and maybe (5), and using them in conjunction with a chart of profiles such as contained in Whelan's 'The Wooden Plane'. Last I knew, Dover Press still sold 7-9 for fairly reasonable prices, and maybe the resellers of used books would have them for even less. Dunbar's book (4) has been out of print and near impossible to find for less than a three-digit $price when I last looked for a copy to give to someone. Items 1, 3 & 6 were available at Borders (I have no idea how that translates in the UK, Jeff) or via the Borders parent Amazon.com, and likely from other book sellers as well. Margon's book is also a Dover title. Hope that helps. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158128 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-12 14:57:14 Subject: Turnings I recently acquired a pretty large supply of silk oak that has been stacked and air dried for several years. I am not giving up the location yet though because there is more there for the taking, and I ain't done yet. :>) I think there are enough 6/4 boards for me to make a bench out of. Woo Hoo! Meep Meep! This stuff turns like a dream, and I have been wanting to learn to do some turning other than spindles. I am not a pro yet by any means, but it is a lot of fun learning. http://homepage.mac.com/oldmillrat/PhotoAlbum97.html I went to a turning demonstration put on by Bonnie Klein (Well known professional turner, Jeff) yesterday and learned a few things. Managed to incorporate a couple of them this morning into the 4 wood box. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158129 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-12 18:05:35 Subject: Working Hardwoods I have used exotic hardwoods for many of the handles I have put on knives. One of the easierst ways I have found to work them is using a file or rasp. Works great. Usually after that I have to sand for ever with the sandpaper to get out the filing scratches. On the last one I used a scraper instead of the sandpaper and it worked beautifully. So much faster than the sandpaper and a nicer finish too. Went to bed during a nice thunderstorm last night. Woke up this morning and got to shop vac all the rainwater from out of the basement workshop. Luckily it didn't get over to the workshop portion. No damage to anything important. Gotta get that fixed. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158130 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-12 18:34:41 Subject: The Road To Damascus - Finale Well I'm back. Do to technical difficulties I wasn't I wasn't able to get back online till I got back to the shop. The short version? I walked, I talked, I bought & I sold. The long version, well we got there around 5:15 AM, got a right fine parking spot on by the building for unloading later and hit the tailgating. Now for all I have to do it, I hate flashlight shopping. But I do it. First go round of the parking lot was reasonably productive, nothing great but I dropped some money here and there. I did spot a rather familiar looking if not somewhat ratty knit cap with a star dead center, which of course I had to pat for good luck, which it turned out to be (Todd's gonna love me for that!!) Headed back to the building and got the stuff in and kinda poured out on the table and made the rounds inside. Got a few things, then Ed from Maine who brings boxes and boxes and boxes of good stuff was getting his goodies out so I started making a pile here, first the $1 box, then the $2 box, the $3 box, etc etc. Dropped a pretty good buck there took the stuff out to the vehicle and noticed that the pile was growing at a good rate. Came back to the table and sold a couple of things during the first rush of the early bird buyers, then in the lull between the early birds and the general public, I made another round outside that was pretty productive. Then it was back to the table for a while. Saw in no particular order, Listmom Steve and his ever faithful companion SawNutz, Charlie Driggs came by for a visit, long time list member AND lurker Tom Dugan (who I actually know since the pre oldtools rec.woodworking days), Slav was there doing his thing, Anatol, of course Walt & Mary Henderson came by (Walt always brings me strange and wonderful things). I'm sure I missing a few folks but what with short term memory being in short supply these days. Now the big surprise was to finally meet Hunter Cox. Not that meeting him was a surprise, but it's kinda funny how you get an impression of someone, based on how they write and of course with a name like Hunter Cox, I had envisioned an older, distinguished type . Eh wrong. He's a pup! But we got to chat for a bit, although I don't think I think I convinced him that old rust is better than new rust.... Made another two trips out to the parking lot during the morning. The first was right productive, especially since old Todd was a yacking about 20 foot away and missed ALL the good stuff.. {evil chuckle} One of the PATINA guys counted the parking lot and there were 53 folks set up out there. All in all it was good day. They will be talking about the absolutely fantastic weather for years to come. Sales were much better than expected (something to be said for low expectations). Buying was very good. (Spent a whole lot more than I sold, but that's the name of the game I guess). Was gonna stick around a bit for the auction but decided to hit the road. Oh and Galoot Tom Graham did a great job in putting together the dealer show. Headed up to Adamstown, spent the night there. Despite the crappy weather (which seems to be a tradition) got some more goodies both outside and inside at Renningers, and a couple of things outside at the Black Angus. Now it's back to work! Tony (so many goodies..where do I start..) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158131 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-12 18:42:05 Subject: Re: Turnings Jim showed us his latest turnings. Very nice work Jim. I can see I have a long way to go to catch up to you. You know how addicting turning can be. That is why I cleaned the lathe area today and am moving on to handsaw sharpening. Now where did you sat that silk oak is? Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158132 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-12 19:24:42 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions Depending on the size of your municipality, these will likely be in your public library. 7 The Gentleman and Cabinetmaker's Director (Chippendale) 8 After Chippendale's work came The Cabinet-Maker and Upholsterer's Guide (Hepplewhite, published by his widow) 9 Just few years later the Cabinetmaker and Upholsterer's Drawing Book (Sheraton) Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158133 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-12 19:41:25 Subject: Help With Search I know that I have asked this question before but I can't find it in the archives. Can one of the search experts point me in the right direction? Looking for information on a panel saw with the etch "IMP". I thought it was a Simonds, but it may be a Disston. Any help will be greatly appreciated by this search challenged old f**t. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158134 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-12 20:05:26 Subject: Wright's/Jennings bit GG Picked up a double twist auger that says - inside a box with clipped corners much like the later Stanley rectangle - WRIGHT'S JENNINGS USA I am thinking that if it is marked USA it was probably made after about 1930, but by then Jennings did not need any further collaboration on making the bit that everyone wanted. What is this Wright's, then? Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158135 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-12 19:50:10 Subject: Re: Turnings GG, Jim opines' I am not a pro yet by any means, but it is a lot of fun learning. http://homepage.mac.com/oldmillrat/PhotoAlbum97.html Jim, just keep practicing...I don't think the pro's can stand the competition...nice work. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158136 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-12 21:09:22 Subject: Weekend Making Sawdust... Well, I spent the weekend at the local "Woodcraft" in a Woodworking Fundamentals class. We made a bookshelf with a sliding edge so it can hold a variable amount of books. Notes: 1. It was pretty much power tools oriented. However the instructor did spend some time on sharpening discussing chisels and hand planes. That was extremely useful. 2. I managed to sand my finger putting a 1/2 inch cut at the tip of my left middle finger...the instructor then sanded the two small parts that needed to be sanded...I think he was conscerned I do it again to myself.. Fortunately not a deep cut...just a bandaid required. 3. My project came out looking pretty good ... but I doubt it would have come out nearly as well without the instructor's help. He helped everyone at some point but the others seemed more comfortable with power tools than I. I'm not too bad at measuring though...I was happy about that. 4. My conclusion is I really need to pick a project and do it on my own. With the time limitations and help available, the temptation for me is not to troubleshoot stuff myself as much as I should. I'm thinking a box is a good start. 5. I did find an article on getting hand planes up to snuf, bought sharpening equipment so tomorrow I'm going to see where I can get the plateglass to create lapping plate so I can tune the handplane I just received. I also hope to get to polishing the old carpenter's saws this week. On another note.I've been reading the accounts of the PATINA show...I'll have to keep it in mind for next year. Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158137 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-12 21:53:24 Subject: Re: Help With Search Bill: The "IMP" was a Disston Saw made between 1914 to 1930 according to Erv Shaffers book Hand Saw Makers of North America. In the Hand Saw Catalog Collection Book, this saw came in sizes from 12" to 30" and was listed under "Special Saws Etched To Order" Bob Sturgeon. _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rittner" To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: [OldTools] Help With Search >I know that I have asked this question before but I can't find it in >the > archives. Can one of the search experts point me in the right > direction? > > Looking for information on a panel saw with the etch "IMP". I thought > it was > a Simonds, but it may be a Disston. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated by this search challenged old > f**t. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" > (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158138 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-12 18:53:29 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint aland@s... writes: > Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in > email. > > http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg On Sunday 12 March 2006 02:05 pm, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail video > with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half-lap > joint as well. John, (or other galoots) For those of us without the Kingshott video, if anyone can provide a description of how the joint is accomplished, I'd appreciate it. I was thinking that only the ends of the tail had the tips to fit into the slider, so all you would need to so is lift the back portion and push the tips out. Probably wrong about that though... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158139 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-12 19:44:20 Subject: Re: Wright's/Jennings bit --- Michele Minch wrote: Picked up a double twist auger that says - inside a box with clipped corners much like the later Stanley rectangle - WRIGHT'S JENNINGs USA > I am thinking that if it is marked USA it was probably made after > about 1930, but by then Jennings did not need any further > collaboration on making the bit that everyone wanted. What is this > > Wright's, then? Hi Ed--- Dunno what to make of it, but I checked the MWTCA's C E Jennings 1913 catalogue reprint---didn't find any mention of Wright's Patent. Much was made in 1913's catalogue of "Steer's Patent", "McElney's Patent" "A B Jennings Patent" and Jennings's line of "Watrous" and "L"Hommedieu" augers---seems like a company that revelled in giving credit where credit was due---Wright's patent either came much before, or a little after 1913, that's my guess. Anything with that C E Jennings name is the good grits, and if it's got someone else's name too, they were probably swallowed up whole, Stanley-style in the Reconstruction era---say afer the "Civil War" and before the "Great War". If one could conduct a 'civil" war, that WOULD be great. who's your boy? GAM in Seattle How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158140 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-12 21:49:45 Subject: Re: Yankee 41A and other push type drills Ben, Until the wise ones show up, I'll try to fill in. Try sharpening the bits. A little attention with a diamond hone turned mine from ho-hum into whee! when I made holes in things. Otherwise you have the action right. Its a tool that's hard to use wrong. Walt C Watching snow and rain alternate in spoiling my shop time. Ben wrote>>> Its time for another question for the wise folks on the list. I picked up a fairly shiny Yankee 41A at an estate sale Friday afternoon. The motion was a little jerky, but a little oiling fixed that quickly. The handle came with about a half dozen bits. These bits look more like a reamer than a drill to me, but then again I have no experience with these kinds of things. So the question is, what is the proper usage of this tool. I've put a bit in the chuck and had a go at some wood. Just a bunch of rapid compressions on the spring loaded action. It does make a nice clean hole its just a little slow going. Am I going about it right? Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158141 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-13 19:15:51 Subject: Re: boiling oil Peter Huisman writes: > To encompass this discussion into the theme of this list: I asked of some people, > some time ago, about how I might protect new jarrah reeded decking that I had laid > for our balcony. The concesus was that a mix of LSO and kero would do the trick. > Being difficult to persuade by nature, I sought the advice of those with a vested > interest in telling me the opposite of fokelore, the paint store bloke. His argument, > that the painting of a mix of kero and LSO would blacken the wood, instantly flashed > visions of actual applications I has witnessed of our wonderful Red Jarrah hardwood > rendered almost colourless and a sickly black, after treatment with the aforementioned > concoction and the passage of several months of diverse weather. > > I settled on his (pricey) recommendation and after proper application have not > had the occasion to regret the purchase. Two points: The recommendation to use kerosene with linseed oil coming, as it does, from the manufacturers of linseed oil, is not exactly out of folklore unless one ascribes to the manufacturers of the product sufficient knowledge to manufacture the stuff but little concerning its application. The application of linseed oil to unpainted exterior timber, with or without the addition of kerosene, will result in a considerable darkening of the timber due to its exposure to the elements within a fairly short time, the only perceptible difference being that the untreated oil will also permit, in sufficiently humid conditions, a nice blossom of fungus to adorn the timber. The preservation or, rather, the representation of more or less the original colour of exterior timber is the task of other agents, not linseed oil. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158142 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-13 09:59:52 Subject: Re: So many questions Alf wrote: > Jim McVicar wrote: > >> 4. I've been looking at the Lee Valley hold down with the brass >> tightening >> knob. Has anyone bought one of these and, if so, how do you like it? > > > Bought one, oh, 5 or 6 months ago and am now wondering why I > hesitated so long. Excellent grip and the screw tightening > rather than the whack-it-wiv-a-mallet type fits my more 20thC > workshop. My one worry was that turning that knob would be > tedious and slow, but once it's slackened off and no longer > actually gripping it spins very easily and hasn't proved to > be an issue at all. Old ones also exist... http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1969 BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158143 ---- From: "greg" Date: 2006-03-13 06:10:34 Subject: Carbon tool steels My fellow Galoots, I had posted some pages from my Steel catalogbut they weren't very readible. Mr bugbear stepped forward in true galoot fashion and offered a helping hand. He retouched the pictures and it is truely amazing the difference a professional can make. Here they are....... http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3637 I know there's at least a couple of metalurgist in the group who can explain the IT Diagram much better than I. Maybe one of them will? While I had the offer of a helping hand I also posted the instructions for sharpning a graver which has been a subject of discussion lately. Hope you can use and enjoy the info, Greg Thanks again to Bugbear for his assistance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158144 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-13 07:11:42 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint Fashion a tail at the end of the stile, with the narrow part on the face side and the wide part on the back side. Fashion a single, blind dovetail socket in the rail. Now, plane the face of the rail, starting at the bottom edge, making the bottom thinner than the top. As you reach the bottom of the stile, you will begin to expose more of the tail, starting with the bottom of the tail. This will make it appear as if the lower end of the tail is wider than the top. The maker fashioned the joint by forming the tail and the socket at an angle, rather than planing, so the result was flat, but that just takes a little practice. Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan DuBoff" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Mystical Dovetail Joint > aland@s... writes: >> Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in >> email. >> >> http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg > > On Sunday 12 March 2006 02:05 pm, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: >> This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail >> video >> with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half-lap >> joint as well. > > John, (or other galoots) > > For those of us without the Kingshott video, if anyone can provide a > description of how the joint is accomplished, I'd appreciate it. > > I was thinking that only the ends of the tail had the tips to fit into > the > slider, so all you would need to so is lift the back portion and push the > tips out. Probably wrong about that though... > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158145 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-13 22:12:19 Subject: C.T.Skelton Hand Saw Hello all, Today I picked up this poor old handsaw - it's my first so it's going to get some care and attention. Hopefully I'll be able to bring it back to the living, though I'm not quite sure what it was meant to be at it's inception. Here's a shot of the beast - the blade is about 25" long. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3629 The tip is an interesting shape - a sort of nib looking bump, but on the end of the blade rather than on the back. I don't have any books specifically on handsaws (yet) so I searched the web to see if I could see anything like it. Some catalog scans I spotted on the Distonnian Institute might show something similar but they were a bit too fuzzy to know for sure. Any ideas what it might be? Other than, of course, a sort of nib looking bump :-) http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3630 Now, this is an unusual medallion, the like of which, I have not seen before - it's square and has a slot engraved across the round central section. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3632 And look at those saw nuts - 4 of them looking all special. Lovely. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3633 And last but not least, I think it used to be a rip saw, but has had a secondary bevel filed on the face of each tooth, turning it into a very toothy crosscut. This shot shows the only broken tooth, and a poor view of some of what the rest look like. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3635 Yep, I'm definately going to need help reviving this old thing. Pete Mueller's split nut tutorial sure was timely - but now I find myself in need of a set of taps and dies to help in this resurrection, or perhaps I should just build a pine box and bury the poor thing in the back yard. Is it worth the effort? -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158146 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-13 07:42:47 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint Alan DuBoff wrote: >aland@s... writes: > > Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in > > email. > > http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg >Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > > This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail video > > with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half-lap > > joint as well. [...] >For those of us without the Kingshott video, if anyone can provide a >description of how the joint is accomplished, I'd appreciate it. Alan, it's a bit hard to explain properly without pictures, (which, alas, I can't do) but, very roughly, the back of the tail is cut at an angle. So as the tail is pushed in from the top, it slide forward as it slides down. However, that said, if anyone has St Roy's _Woodwright's Apprentice_, he shows how to make the joint --and actually uses it!!-- in Chapt 9, on the "Standing Embroidery Hoop". N P.S. I've also seen a variant of this in which there is what appears to a standard lap joint on the back side of the horizontal piece (i.e. more or less "parallel" to the "impossi-tail" joint.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158147 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-13 08:02:22 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint James Thompson wrote: >Alan DuBoff wrote: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item >I have watched St. Roy cut this joint. It is cut on a diagonal to the >flats, and is put together the same way. Simple when you see him do it. One whittling book I have uses the following technique: 1] Start with two, square pieces of wood. 2] Cut two regular through dovetails, paralllel from front to back. Sort of like the following, when viewed from the end: (if you'll excuse the ASCII-art): OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO 3] Finally, plane off the corners, at 45dgs, until you get down to a diamond shape (the resulting piece, of course, should be square in cross-section). A bit wasteful of material. But I thought it was an interesting approach. You end up with an identical "puzzle", and it might be easier to cut the dovetails in this way. N ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158148 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-13 08:11:14 Subject: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Hi gang, Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make some raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something fairly simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The sides will be morticed in to the corners (or maybe just grooved), and the 4x4s will be somewhat rounded on the edges (old tools is what will be used for the mortice/grooves, and rounding). So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? I hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was thinking white cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up to the weight of the dirt pushing out without developing major bows. While looks aren't that important, I'd rather avoid things like railroad ties or landscape timbers, and of course (being a Cheap Yankee Bastuhd), I'd prefer to keep things fairly inexpensive. I suppose I could just use some sort of generic rough lumber from the local sawmill (probably oak), but I'm worried about the rough stuff throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the garden all summer long). While it would be great to be able to do something like teak or mahogany, this is really meant to be functional....... Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated - especially if you've done something like this before, and can report on the durability..... Thanks --JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158149 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-13 08:50:37 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with At 08:11 AM 3/13/2006, James DuPrie wrote: >So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? If you can get it at a reasonable price cedar would be the way to go. (I'm working on the assumption here that these are going to be ongoing and not a once and done project.) Any wood is going to bow a bit, if not from the weight, then from the moisture. Even if you have to do some exterior staking, few on each side (like a 2x2 piece, 1 at the center of the ends and 2 along each side), that will pretty much keep things together nicely. The cat's meow and would probably outlast all off us put together would be black locust. I used to be able to get 8", 10" would be tricky. I think that sawmill is still in business but it is a bit of a ride (way down I-81 not too far from the PA/Maryland line) Oak, red or white, has about a 1 year ground contact life expectancy, if that. BTDT. Fir, pine, might last a bit a longer. The early settlers used what ever they had available. And if it needed fixing, it needed fixing. Now depending on the required esthetics of the situation, slab wood would look just great in my book. If you get some consistency in the sizes. Tony (rambling as always) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158150 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-03-13 23:07:12 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods Peter Hahn wrote: > ..................................................................... I guess the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? How many ways are there to smooth gnarly-grained hardwood? The following ideas are intended for smoothing face grain. (a) Some specialist planes include. (1) HNT Gordon are designed specifically with Australian hardwoods in mind. These have bevel down blades bedded at 60 degrees. One of the advantages of the HNT Gordon Smoother is that you can reverse the blade (with its 30 degree bevel) and use it as a 90 degree scraper plane. This is probably the best scraper plane I have ever used! Steve Knight also makes some wonderful woodies, but I have ot been fortunate enough to try one out. Ditto Clark & Williams. (2) Both Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley/Veritas have a range of bevel up planes. The advantage of these planes is that the bevels can be ground for high cutting angles. Some woods will respond to a 50 degree cutting angle (a bevel of 38 degrees on top of the 12 degree bed), while others require much more than this. I typically use a 62 degree cutting angle, and some go to 65 degrees. For small areas of tearout, try honing a high bevel angle on a small block plane. My Stanley #18 knucklejoint is set up with a 60 degree cutting angle to function as a mini-smoother. (3) Scraper planes, such as the Stanley #112, #12, #80, etc are very effective. Both LN and LV make versions of these. The #80 has got to be one of the easiest scraper planes to use and is nearly foolproof. Personally, I only use one for coarser work, such as removing glue lines, since I try and avoid bowed blades. My Stanley #112 uses a thick LN blade (not the standard LN blade but one made for Stanley) and this is set up without a burr. It takes a little time to learn how to adjust the blade on this plane, but it can produce wonderful results. (b) Adapting Stanley planes. Stanley bench planes have a 45 degree bed, and this is too low for gnarly hardwoods. The solution is to raise the cutting angle by honing a backbevel on the blade. A 5 degree backbevel will create a 50 degree cutting angle, and a 15 degree backbevel will create a 60 degree backbevel. (c) Planing techniques. Use the circular planing method. This involves planing in circles using very light setting. A bit hit-and-miss. Angle the planing stroke at 45 degrees to the board (as if you were using a scrub plane). Angle your plane at 45 degrees to the stroke to create a skew cut. (d) Card scrapers. One of my favourite tools. It is an incredible sensation to feel the shavings peel away from a simple piece of steel plate. For small sections of tearout, push the scraper away from yourself. This will bow the blade and plane a slight hollow in the surface. For smoothing, I only pull the scraper towards myself since this will tend to keep it flat and avoid the hollowing out. I especially like using the short ends of card scraper blades since these are stiffer. For small sections of smoothing, trying scraoing with a reversed sharp chisel or plane blade. No burr needed. Any other methods or ideas? Regards from Perth Derek Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158151 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-13 08:47:54 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Much as I love wood Outside, uncovered, in direct contact with the ground......every wood is a heartbreak Cement or stone is the only lasting answer. Doesnt; have to be plain jane looking though. Some scrap wood for a form and a little imagination =..................... Stairs http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/step4.jpg Pier blocks (ok a bit more work for thsi mold but you only have to do it once to get all you need) http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/finished.jpg yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158152 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-13 11:55:40 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT On Mar 13, 2006, at 8:11 AM, James DuPrie wrote: > Hi gang, > > Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make > some > raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something > fairly > simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. > Don't get fancy, unless this is for SWMBO's esthetic sense. Just use cheap, plain 2x lumber from a Borg, and plan on replacing the stuff as it rots. That's what we use, and they last about 4 years before the stuff crumbles. Heck, if you work it right, you can mulch it into the compost pile without too much trouble. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Juicy red meat is not bad for you... Fuzzy green meat, now THAT’S bad for you! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158153 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-13 09:15:02 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with On 13 Mar 2006 at 8:11, James DuPrie wrote: > So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? I > hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was thinking white > cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up to the weight of the > dirt pushing out without developing major bows. While looks aren't that > important, I'd rather avoid things like railroad ties or landscape timbers, > and of course (being a Cheap Yankee Bastuhd), I'd prefer to keep things > fairly inexpensive. I suppose I could just use some sort of generic rough > lumber from the local sawmill (probably oak), but I'm worried about the > rough stuff throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the > garden all summer long). While it would be great to be able to do something > like teak or mahogany, this is really meant to be functional....... I use redwood for stuff like this, since 1 x 10 con heart is cheap in these parts. Of course, I understand it's more expensive where it doesn't grow. I've got beds that are three years old now, no sign of deterioration and warping is not too bad despite constant contact with dirt. Oh, and I dovetail the corners (but not by hand). -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158154 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-13 17:25:35 Subject: drawer bottom grooving plane http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6260603237&ss- PageName=STRK:MEWA:IT It is interesting that while 3 blade widths are available, and that there is a fence of the "moving fillister" style, there does not appear to be a depth stop. A surprising omission on what appears to be a "state of the art" dedicated tool. (price was quite high, I thought) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158155 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-13 09:17:54 Subject: strange emails OT Forgive the bandwidth use, but this might be of interest. I keep getting what look like ebay messages from buyers asking me if I have sold my item yet. I don't have any items for sale, and don't expect to. I don't answer these things because I suspect something is not right. One might be a mistake, but I have now received 5 of them. Anybody else getting these? Is this some kind of new scam? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158156 ---- From: Isaac Howard Date: 2006-03-13 12:48:37 Subject: RE: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT >>Hi gang, >> >>Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make some >>raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something fairly >>simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The sides >>will be Well I ended up using 4x4 redwood from Home Depot and it's still going on about 9 years and hasn't rotted out yet. Course YMMV. The beds we made were 4'x8'x12" deep, albiet they did cost around $100 a box to make, I'm very lazy when it comes to remaking stuff that I garden in year after year. We bored a 3 holes in each corner and then smashed a piece of rebar into the holes with a sledge, really it was alot of fun. After making 8 of them for us and the MIL, it wasn't alot of fun, but they are all still there and will never be moving. However we have moved since then and when we go to make new boxes, we will be using 2x8's for 16 inches deep and hopefully less work :) Hope that helps. OT content: Sledge and sweat. Isaac Howard "You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, "My God, you're right! I never would've thought of that!" Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158157 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-13 12:57:44 Subject: Re: strange emails OT scam is right, If you've ever bought or sold on Ebay, they will try this. If you follow the link the give carefully, you end up at a non-ebay cleverly spoofed site, trying to get your paypal account information and/or Ebay information. tim James Thompson Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/13/2006 12:17 PM To oldtools cc Subject [OldTools] strange emails OT Forgive the bandwidth use, but this might be of interest. I keep getting what look like ebay messages from buyers asking me if I have sold my item yet. I don't have any items for sale, and don't expect to. I don't answer these things because I suspect something is not right. One might be a mistake, but I have now received 5 of them. Anybody else getting these? Is this some kind of new scam? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158158 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-13 12:58:03 Subject: RE: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with Why not? How 'bout just cutting grooves for the ends of the boards to sit in? I think there's got to be something to keep the ends of the boards from blowing out...... --JD -----Original Message----- From: Gary K [mailto:gtgrouch@r...] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:49 PM To: James DuPrie Subject: Re: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT content.... redwood dont use mortises, damhikt gary k ----- Original Message ----- From: "James DuPrie" To: "oldtools" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT content.... > Hi gang, > > Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make some > raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something fairly > simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The sides will > be > morticed in to the corners (or maybe just grooved), and the 4x4s will be > somewhat rounded on the edges (old tools is what will be used for the > mortice/grooves, and rounding). > > So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? I > hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was thinking > white > cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up to the weight of the > dirt pushing out without developing major bows. While looks aren't that > important, I'd rather avoid things like railroad ties or landscape > timbers, > and of course (being a Cheap Yankee Bastuhd), I'd prefer to keep things > fairly inexpensive. I suppose I could just use some sort of generic rough > lumber from the local sawmill (probably oak), but I'm worried about the > rough stuff throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the > garden all summer long). While it would be great to be able to do > something > like teak or mahogany, this is really meant to be functional....... > > Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated - especially if you've done > something like this before, and can report on the durability..... > > > Thanks > --JD > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158159 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-13 12:59:12 Subject: how 'bout ash? RE: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed Its cheap and local, but I don't know how it holds up outside.... -_JD -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Seo [mailto:tonyseo@m...] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:51 AM To: James DuPrie; oldtools Subject: Re: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT content.... At 08:11 AM 3/13/2006, James DuPrie wrote: >So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? If you can get it at a reasonable price cedar would be the way to go. (I'm working on the assumption here that these are going to be ongoing and not a once and done project.) Any wood is going to bow a bit, if not from the weight, then from the moisture. Even if you have to do some exterior staking, few on each side (like a 2x2 piece, 1 at the center of the ends and 2 along each side), that will pretty much keep things together nicely. The cat's meow and would probably outlast all off us put together would be black locust. I used to be able to get 8", 10" would be tricky. I think that sawmill is still in business but it is a bit of a ride (way down I-81 not too far from the PA/Maryland line) Oak, red or white, has about a 1 year ground contact life expectancy, if that. BTDT. Fir, pine, might last a bit a longer. The early settlers used what ever they had available. And if it needed fixing, it needed fixing. Now depending on the required esthetics of the situation, slab wood would look just great in my book. If you get some consistency in the sizes. Tony (rambling as always) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158160 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-13 10:01:47 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? Ken Greenberg wrote: >I use redwood for stuff like this, since 1 x 10 con heart is cheap in >these parts. Of course, I understand it's more expensive where it >doesn't grow. I've got beds that are three years old now, no sign of >deterioration and warping is not too bad despite constant contact >with dirt. > I'll agree with the Honorable Mr Greenberg here. My yard has raised beds made of redwood that were rumored to be 10 years old when I moved in 2 years ago. Starting to die now, so may pull 1 or 2 down and rebuild them. I wouldn't do PT near anything you plan on touching or eating vegetable from. OK for Deck piers and such, but I wasn';t thrilled with it as a swingset structure. Mine aren't dovetailed or morticed, but lots of nails were sacrificed in an effort to keep them together. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, where gardening will start if the rain and hail ever stop. Had snow on the ridge between me and Mr Murman in Redwood city Friday night. Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158161 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-13 10:03:45 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane BB stated... > A surprising omission on what appears to > be a "state of the art" dedicated tool. > > (price was quite high, I thought) Yes, and it looks like someone whittled down the wedge as well. While I would like to find one for less than the $50+ US that one cost, I would like a plow of that type one day and looks like I'll need to make one as too many go for about that whenever I look. I will just need to find some reasonable costing plow irons. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158162 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 02:08:35 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Monday 13 March 2006 04:42 am, Nichael Cramer wrote: > Alan, it's a bit hard to explain properly without pictures, Thanks for your help, Don McConnell was gracious enough to send a diagram from a book dating back to 1901 which described it. Richard Bitmead's "Cabinet Makers' Guide" was the text. The Double-Dovetail joint. Even with the diagram it was confusing at best to understand, but luckily Don did try to explain it himself, which clicked the light on in my head. The key to understanding the joint is that the thickness of the stock is thinner at the wide end of the tail, than it is at the narrow end. The socket width is the same from front to back as it must accomodate the full width of the tail, and the socket is angled up, like a ramp, so that the tail pushes up as the tail pushes in. This allows the tail to be inserted and become flush with the surface, locking the joint together. What a facinating joint! I must cut one! I have placed the diagram on my server, and here's a link to it. http://www.softorchestra.com/images/dbldvtl.gif Here is the somewhat confusing text which accompanies the diagram in Bitmead's book: (thanks to Don for typing it in) As you read it, remember that the bottom diagram is inverted to show the width of the socket. What you can't see is how Don described the ramp, where the depth of the socket is thicker at the bottom than it is at the top, that is not clear at all in Bitmead's description or the diagram. Knowing that, and reading this about 4 or 5 times got me to realize how that relates to the 1/4 of the stock vs 3/4 of the stock (which forms the angled ramp to lock it in place). ****************** "The Double Dovetail is seldom brought into practical use for cabinet work, as it is not much known; but it would be found to be of use in a number of cases, instead of the mortise and tenon. Fig. 8 represents it finished, Fig. 9 as taken asunder. The socket in the Fig. 9 is inverted, for the better display of its form, and so that its construction may be more easily seen. "The socket is made thus: upon the entering-side a gauge-draught is run at three-fourths the depth, and upon the outside, opposite, at one-fourth, which determines the bottom of the socket; then the full width of the dovtail-pin is marked off upon both sides of the bottom of the gauge-marks, and a bevel set so as to narrow it to the surface in dovetain form on each side; then, from the marks on each side, make a mark across the surface, then cut the sides and chip out the socket, the bottom of which is a parallelogram. The same measures are then taken upon the dovetail-pin, and cut outside the marks. "The principal advantages of the double dovetail are these: first, it can be fitted much more nicely and expeditiously than the mortise and tenon; second, the dovetail-pin is strongest at the neck, where most strength is required; third, against a direct pull it acts as a dovetail; and fourth, though this is of little consequence, it can be made and shown as a puzzle. When neatly done, it seems almost impossible to put it togethr or take it apart. It should be made with a light and dark wood, and glued together; if put together dry, it will be easily taken aprt, and the secret discovered." ***************** -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158163 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 02:19:34 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness? This double dovetail is a most facinating joint, which only a true galoot could come up with. Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE (always in search of new joinery techniques;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158164 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-13 13:27:13 Subject: Re: strange emails OT Jim: While back you said you might want to sell that Disston 112 Saw that you picked up. I wonder if these are messages from Old Tool List members thinking you were going sell it on ebay? Were the messages coming from Old Tool List or was ebay mentioned in the messages? Was this the item they were referring to? If you have an ebay account, you can look in your recent messages and if that's were they came from they should be listed there also. Of course somebody would have to know who you were on ebay. Bob Sturgeon. _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" To: "oldtools" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: [OldTools] strange emails OT > Forgive the bandwidth use, but this might be of interest. > > I keep getting what look like ebay messages from buyers asking me if I > have sold my item yet. I don't have any items for sale, and don't > expect to. I don't answer these things because I suspect something is > not right. > > One might be a mistake, but I have now received 5 of them. Anybody > else getting these? Is this some kind of new scam? > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158165 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-13 10:30:38 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane On 13 Mar 2006 at 10:03, Mike Wenzloff wrote: > > While I would like to find one for less than the $50+ US that one > cost, I would like a plow of that type one day and looks like I'll > need to make one as too many go for about that whenever I look. I will > just need to find some reasonable costing plow irons. It is a fascinating little plane - I had no idea that they made something like that in wood. As BugBear pointed out, the lack of a depth stop makes it not quite as useful as my Record 043. Still, wooden planes are awfully pretty. If you look at the irons that come with the Record, they are seriously primitive and could easily be made from a hunk of O1 tool steel. It ought to be possible to design a wooden plane around such irons, you would just make them longer to stick out past the wedge. The issue might be that plow irons traditionally have a groove in the back to "lock" them to the skate. You could certainly create such a groove in mild tool steel, I think. But perhaps this is not quite so necessary as we think if small irons are to be used. After all, the irons for metal plows seem to get by without them. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158166 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-13 13:29:05 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) What about "the one with...." 2 blocks of wood joined with what appears to be dovetails all around...made by cutting several sliding dovetails at 45degrees to the length of the block ("tails" in one and "pins" on the other) and sliding them together----when the blocks are lined up, looks like you have cut impossible dovetails all around the 2. tim raleigh nc Alan DuBoff Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/13/2006 05:19 AM Please respond to Alan DuBoff To oldtools@r... cc Subject Re: [OldTools] Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness? This double dovetail is a most facinating joint, which only a true galoot could come up with. Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE (always in search of new joinery techniques;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158167 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-13 13:37:14 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) At 05:19 AM 3/13/2006, Alan DuBoff wrote: >Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I >have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness? > >This double dovetail is a most facinating joint, which only a true galoot >could come up with. > >Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? There is a book Puzzles In Wood by E.M. Wyatt that has all this kind of neat stuff. It was published a while ago but has been reprinted a number of times. (Don't even waste yer time with Amazon.... the cheapest used copy there was like $50. Tony (work...work, yeah I do it sometimes!) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158168 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-13 13:38:51 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Alan asks: > Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? What about the dovetailed mallet that St Roy makes, or the single-board bookstand that he also makes? I've seen him do both and even made a bookstand myself, as have others here on the porch. I think Tom Holloway has a pic of his on GIC. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland where normal joinery I've made that actually fits is "mystery joinery" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158169 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-13 11:48:54 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On 13 Mar., Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? I think someone earlier mentioned a discussion of "puzzle" joints in one of the Woodwright's books. There also was an episode (#2502) in last year's season devoted to wooden puzzles. I can't remember the details, but I think St. Roy showed the how-to's for three different puzzles. Doesn't look like it's on video yet, at least I didn't see it on the PBS website. Norm in Fort Collins, CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158170 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-13 10:49:45 Subject: scraping douglas fir i had our mantel milled to near-size this weekend using unmentionable means, but it still needed a fair bit of cleaning up. so last night i pulled out the sw #7 (nice old stanley jointer plane, jeff) and the sw #12 (same, but a scraper plane, loaded with a hock blade to preserve the original sw blade), and proceeded to make it look nice. the beam i cut up has the grain going from nearly vertical to nearly horizontal in the same piece. on the "bottom" of the mantle (the inside of the tree) the flatter-sawn (horizontal) half had lots of splintery curls that were creating problems, and the angle of the nearly-vertical grain made the edges of that grain easy to sliver off. so i put the scraper at a fine set, and had to the beam. eventually i got it so i could run my hands in the four directions and not raise a splinter...or not much, or often (the fir is 3.5" thick, cut to 12" wide, and 5' long). the surface is not *flat*, but it is a nice, smooth texture and not splintery. i then started working on the long-grain sides, both of which have the long, fine grain pattern associated with old-growth doug fir. the back is essentially quartersawn, and will not be seen; even though it's beautiful, the front has more character due to a couple of small reversals and the wood surrounding a knot (the only knot on the entire piece, visible on the bottom, but only as grain swirls on the top and a bit of knot on the front). as such, i used it to experiment how to get it smooth. i started out scraping using the most acute angle i could get between the scraper and the wood, and then played with it. i got it smooth, but not smooooooth. i want smooooooth for the front, but was satisfied with it for the back. the front has the grain coming to face on a 45deg angle upwards (angling from the front up to the top) but still appears quartersawn. lots of rings/inch on this end, more than on the other because of the angle and because the growth here was closer. i decided, because it was a bit rougher than the back, to start with the #7 and get it all planed smooth, which worked just fine until i hit the grain reversals and the knot, which led to some small tearout. after recovering from the cringing, i put the scraper to use on a higher angle, and got it smooth all along the front. i was getting beautiful shavings, but around the knot and the reversals the grain was not cleaning up too well. i lowered the angle and it worked better, giving me smooooooth along the length of the front except where i'd had the tearout. that got better, but not as good as i wanted it. so i decided to try hand-scraping, and had the epiphany. i pulled the blade out of the #12, and held it so it was the thickness of a finger above the wood at the top of the blade while in contact at the hooked-edge. and pulled. and suddenly half my tearout was gone, and the surface was nearly like glass. i spent the next 20 or so minutes working the tearout from all needed directions, and got 95% of it gone and the surface beautiful. i then used the same low, low angle on the rest of the front, and got a smoooooooooooooooooth, glassy surface. i am thrilled! tonight i'll work on the top, bringing it to smooth and smoooooother, then i'll cut the ends off with a handsaw (either my atkins or my d-23) and smooth it with a block plane; then all edges will be relieved, one way or another. once the builders mortise the back (about 4' long, 1.75" wide, 5.5" deep, for mounting on a 2x6 braced into the studs) i'll double-check everything for smoothness, then use blo and wiped-on blond shellac for the finish. i didn't get pictures of the unadulterated joist, but i gave a 40" chunk to matt (the bass luthier across the street) and i don't think he's done anything to it yet. if i can i'll put up before and after pics... if you're ever going to scrape old-growth douglas fir, go as low angle as you can! best, and thanks to all assembled for all the advice. bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158171 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 02:52:28 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 10:29 am, Timothy A Collins wrote: > What about "the one with...." 2 blocks of wood joined with what appears to > be dovetails all around...made by cutting several sliding dovetails at > 45degrees to the length of the block ("tails" in one and "pins" on the > other) and sliding them together----when the blocks are lined up, looks > like you have cut impossible dovetails all around the 2. That one is done how I suspected, and how others described here. Essentially there are 2 sliding dovetails that run between the adjoining sides, so the pieces slide in from the angle. The faces give the illusion that the dovetail is straight, but they run at angles to the adjoining side. I'm not exactly clear where that joint would become useful, unless one had to extend a leg, otherwise a solid piece should most likely prevail for me. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158172 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 03:07:30 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 10:37 am, Anthony Seo wrote: > There is a book Puzzles In Wood by E.M. Wyatt that has all this kind > of neat stuff. It was published a while ago but has been reprinted a > number of times. (Don't even waste yer time with Amazon.... the > cheapest used copy there was like $50. Tony, Thanks, I see that book and vaguely remember folks talking about it. There's a newer edition for $9, I think I'll get that. > Tony (work...work, yeah I do it sometimes!) Me too! But usually not until about 2:00pm...;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158173 ---- From: Isaac Howard Date: 2006-03-13 14:27:36 Subject: Re: RE: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Sorry, the less work was in reference to using the beds, with 12 inches it was sitting on the side with my legs off at an angle to do stuff in the beds, or slightly bent over to dig them up/out. I think that about 4 more inches will mean less work when digging them out and a little more comfortable when sitting on the sides and weeding. Shovel...yeah that's an old tool. Isaac Howard > how hopefully less work? deeper beds= less work? > > thanks. > bill > felton, ca > planning two flights of 2x6s dovetailed together, with a rebated join > between flights. > > On Mar 13, 2006, at 9:48 AM, Isaac Howard wrote: > >> However we have moved since then and when we go to make new boxes, >> we will >> be using 2x8's for 16 inches deep and hopefully less work :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158174 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-13 14:35:22 Subject: GIT Sculpture... Gentle Galoots, I had the GIT out in the shop with me this saturday. Its been a while since she's been out there but she liked the new shop stool with the semi saddled seat. She wanted to try using the BIG firmer gouge to do a little hollowing herself, but the mallet/gouge interaction was giving her some trouble. Pulled out the much smaller Two Cherries gouges and put the stool leg in the vise and my six year old spent a good 40 minutes making little grooves in the softwood of the seat, while daddy drilled into her the mantra *hands behind the sharp part*. After that, she went back to the shop activity that's kept her busy since she was two, building sculpture out of scraps. While she was doing that, I sawed a chunk of padouk on the Velocipede for an intarsia experiment and planed it flat, generating big chunky shavings in that bright orange red that padouk is known for, getting it down to an eighth of an inch to match the maple and pine that will also be a part of the intarsia. Then taped the three pieces together and planed the edges to get them all the same width, tossing those shavings onto the bench as well. When I turn around, my GIT has created the most symetrical and thought out sculpture she's done to date. Called Spaghetti and Meatballs, this one is a keeper. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3643 Michael-San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158175 ---- From: "Jason Knight" Date: 2006-03-13 15:09:52 Subject: Re: GIT Sculpture... Whew! How old is the GIT? I spent some quality time with the 3 year old this weekend. I was planing some pieces of trim work, GIT was using his shovel to scoop up the shavings, I wasn't looking and he hooked the shovel on something, forced it free, and whallopped the dickens out of my finger. I actually don't know if he whallopped the dickens out of it, but he did whallop some blood and some unfortunate vocabulary out of me. I'm not sure we're ready for edge tools yet, but he's a big fan of the egg beater drill. I picked up another last week at the liberty tools season opening sale, partly to be a beginning of the GIT toolbox. Nothing particularly gloat worthy from the tool sale, other than a swmbo who gave me a gift certificate for old tools and a 3 year old GIT who put up with an amazingly crowded shop (both people and tools) for over an hour as daddy wandered around in a daze. For those that may be curious, $50 got me 2 rabbet planes (1" and 1.5"), the egg beater, a draw knife, and two chisels (3/4" looks hand forged, mushroomed socket, and 5/8" , crummy handle, but blade and socket look good). None of it looks to be much beyond user quality, but that's what I need. Jason ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158176 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 04:26:08 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 10:38 am, Rodgers Charles wrote: > What about the dovetailed mallet that St Roy makes, or the single-board > bookstand that he also makes? I've seen him do both and even made a > bookstand myself, as have others here on the porch. I think Tom > Holloway has a pic of his on GIC. I searched around Tom's page on GIC, and see the bookstand which looks nice, but didn't see the dovetailed mallet. Does anyone have a pic of Goy Roy's dovetail mallet? > Charlie Rodgers > Clinton, Maryland where normal joinery I've made that actually fits is > "mystery joinery" You're not alone Charlie!;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158177 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-13 15:46:54 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Alan asks: > Does anyone have a pic of Goy Roy's dovetail mallet? As a matter of fact, yes. Chris's wonderful archives yields: Brian Buckner's messsage #122680 points us to the www.ilovewood.com website. Select Alburnum's Archives, then #58 (puzzle mallet). Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158178 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-13 15:57:46 Subject: Mystical Dovetail This joint is in St Roy's book. It is also used on many crafts at places like Berea KY. I made it a few times. Easier than it looks. The dovetails go on an angle. The two pieces slide apart from the corners not from the middle. Easier to do than describe. Draw a pin or tail on each side of the piece. Then connect the two on adjacent sides together across the end. I tried to sho people but nobody knew how a single dovetail worked enough to get the trick of it. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158179 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-13 15:49:03 Subject: Good News Bad Andy has good news! The flooding stopped just one inch from the workbench. (Seriously). The only thing damaged was a pine board that was one of those really wide ones you buy that is glued up from three smaller ones. It is now two boards not one. The oak for the new bench legs managed to stay dry and all toolboxes, chests, etc. What a mess. I got to get this fixed. It was a beautiful thunderstorm though. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158180 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-13 14:01:11 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Alan asks: "Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness?" I seem to recall a weird box joint illustrated in FWW that appeared to be impossible to assemble or dissassemble. They had a whole article on it. I think they attributed it to the Japanese. I'll see if I can find it when I get home tonight. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158181 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-13 16:07:58 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane Paul When I picked up one of these Marples planes a year or so ago, I too thought it was a drawer bottom plane. But alas, no. The Buck & Hickman catalog of 1953 lists this is a grooving plane, to be paired with a separate purchase tongue plane for the mundane tongue & groove joints. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3648 you'll notice that the image is upside down. I uploaded it in both rightside up and upside down versions and for some reason, it insists on appearing upside down. Who am I to argue with a digital image? Anyone in Australia will be able to view this correctly. Gary On Mar 13, 2006, at 12:25 PM, paul womack wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&rd=1&item=6260603237&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT > > It is interesting that while 3 blade widths are available, > and that there is a fence of the "moving fillister" style, > there does not appear to be a depth stop. > > A surprising omission on what appears to > be a "state of the art" dedicated tool. > > (price was quite high, I thought) > > BugBear > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158182 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-13 16:19:47 Subject: Raised Garden Bed I have Alex Bealers Bood "Old Ways Of Working Wood" In it he talks about how they used to make fence posts. He lists some good fence post wood. Yellow Locust, Cedar, Cypress, Post Oak, Chestnut, Chestnut Oak. He said Locust, Cedar, and CHestnut could last 75 to 100 years. I think they might have charred the ends before putting them in the ground. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158183 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 05:22:47 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 12:46 pm, Rodgers Charles wrote: > Alan asks: > > Does anyone have a pic of Goy Roy's dovetail mallet? > > As a matter of fact, yes. Chris's wonderful archives yields: > > Brian Buckner's messsage #122680 points us to the > www.ilovewood.com website. Select Alburnum's Archives, then > #58 (puzzle mallet). > Charlie Rodgers > Clinton, Maryland Yes, thank you! This looks like a project for the future. That has a very high coolness factor attached to it.;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158184 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 05:26:42 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 01:01 pm, Blake Ashley wrote: > I seem to recall a weird box joint illustrated in FWW that appeared to > be impossible to assemble or dissassemble. They had a whole article on > it. I think they attributed it to the Japanese. I'll see if I can find > it when I get home tonight. Please do post if you have any info on it. This has turned into a great thread for me, thanks to everyone on the porch for offering info on some of these joints. I am certainly facinated with joinery, and have been for quite some time. I'm just catching up with some of you other galoots, so thanks to all that offered info and advice, much appreciated. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158185 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-13 17:41:49 Subject: Re: Help With Search Many thanks to all who supplied the info on the "IMP". One of these saws will be the subject of my first foray into handsaw sharpening. Not having much value and not in great condition it is the perfect subject for this purpose. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158186 ---- From: Thomas Conroy Date: 2006-03-13 14:59:59 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes John Edwards raised the question of what wooden rabbet planes were meant for. I can't speak to that directly, but I can say what I have found them to be indispensible for. Though its maybe a little arcane. In making one style of bookbinder's finishing press there is a step where I have to clear an area roughly 9" long and 5" wide. The sides are open, but at the ends are triangular walls about 1-2" high. (The whole surface is on a 45% slant, but that isn't a problem, you just hold the whole piece at 45%). A while back Michael (NickNaylor) was good enough to post some photos for me, including a press of this sort: http://www.members.aol.com/nicknaylo/images/conroypress2.jpg http://www.members.aol.com/nicknaylo/images/conroypress2a.jpg Its easy enough to rough this in with saws and chisels, but you try to figure out how to smooth the bottom of that area. After making a dozen or so presses by smoothing with a wide chisel, block planes slid at right angles to the axis of the plane, and lots of sandpaper, I bought a 2" (roughly) wooden skew rabbet plane that I saw in a shop window: I figured that I could slide it sideways and it wouldn't be as frustrating as the block planes. What I found was that a skew rabbet can be worked across the grain and leave a nearly finished surface, requiring nothing but a bit of work with a scraper to smooth it off. Wonderful. They are great tools and horribly underrated (Michael Dunbar says in effect "Only good for rough carpentry", but I'm here to say they are fine tools for leaving a clean finish to broad surfaces that have to be worked crossgrain). And cheap; my second one came from a $2.00 box at a Past meeting and hardly even needed sharpening (I use one for roughing down and the other for wispy smoothing). Mine don't have nickers, but I could use some: the spots that still give me trouble are the ends of my surface, right next to the walls, and the problem is that I have to try to keep ahead of the plane by continuing the wall downward in advance of the plane. And, no, metal rabbets really aren't the same animal; I can't see using a metal rabbet for final planing of a show surface, which is what I'm doing. If you aren't into making binders' presses?.... well.... I would say that they would do as good a job for panel raising as a proper panel raiser, just a bit more fuss in setting fences to run against and care not to go to deep. Anything where you have to work a big area across the grain. And cheap? Like I said, I got my second for two bucks and afterwards kicked myself for passing up another two-buck example in the same box. Real bottomfeeder's delight Tom Conroy Berkeley __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158187 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-13 17:07:23 Subject: Re: Raised Garden Bed GG, My recommendation on this one may come as a surprise to most...Osage Orange... A friend brought me a chunk of Osage with a request for me to make a pen for him from it. Upon my remark that I already had pen blanks made up from osage orange; he told me that the piece of orange he brought me was from a fence post that he had put in the ground when he was about 15 yrs. old. He had returned to the ancestral home to find the fence had been taken down and replaced, but after 50 years the posts were still in good shape. And so it was, the piece was well dried but otherwise showed no deteriation once the outside 1/4" or so was removed. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158188 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-13 18:18:28 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary asks .. > The next part of the question then is: what, if any, > was the status of the US economy between 1902 and > 1914? Was inflation flat or where there changes? > I'll have to log in to some databases I have access > to and see if there is anything that I can turn up > on that time period. Well, this source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi comes up with: What cost $100 in 1902 would cost $118.72 in 1914. Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1914 and 1902, they would cost you $100 and $84.23 respectively. Which merely suggests that Chapin-Stephens either achieved 18% productivity improvement over the period to hold prices constant, or they ran themselves out of business over time. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158189 ---- From: Kyle Accardi Date: 2006-03-13 15:33:03 Subject: WTB 1/2" cutter for Stanley #50 Found a new store today... Picked up a Stanley SW #10-1/2 (jack rabbit). Very nice, save the owner's driver's license number dimpled into the cheek. S/he also did a little light grinding of the top edges of the body casting presumably to knock down the sharp edges. A 12" #25 bevel. I have a weakness for those things. Also a late-model (nearly) complete Stanley #50 IOB, used-once but not before losing the 1/4" plow cutter. I thought Stanley was still making this plane under part number 12-050, but it seems to missing from their site now. St. James Bay Tool Co. web server seems to be taking a dirt nap. Anyone have a lead on this cutter? Oh yeah, and a brass spittoon. A good day in tool land. Cheers, Kyle Accardi Banks, Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158190 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-13 18:35:13 Subject: FS: Cheap Chisels A bunch of chisels are being offered on Oldtools Standard Terms, details of which are found in the FAQ: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/AllChisels.jpg These chisels are in various states of condition. Some are great. Some are paint spattered, missing handles, and blunt as Todd. They are being sold as an opportunity for Oldtools Hell residents can get some old chisels and fix them up on the cheap, not as primo collector items. Buy accordingly. The first set is Stanleyish. It has a smurfy late Everlasting with the plastic handle, plus two of the No. 750 type that are not marked with the 750 number. $20 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet1.jpg The second set has three firmers (a Buck Bros, a Butcher, and a 1/4" ?) plus a beveled edge ?. I'll give right of first refusal the the gentleman from Australia who asked me to kee an eye out at PATINA for the 1/4" firmer. $20 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet2.jpg The third set consist of long firmers. One Robert Duke, one Belmont Hardware, and one Union. $20 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet3.jpg The forth set is the ugly redheaded step child of the group. One Craftsman and two Fultons. $10 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet4.jpg The fifth set is Witherbyish and pretty nice. Three Witherbys and one Stanley 750ish (not marked with the 750 number). $30 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet5.jpg Not a set. One lone Butcher framing chisel, sans handle. Butcher framers are not common. $15 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet6.jpg The last set has a nice old (but short) Douglass Mfg firmer, a Jordan - Germany, and a generic Drop Forged. $10 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet7.jpg Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158191 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-13 16:41:11 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? On 13 Mar., Charlie Driggs wrote: > Which merely suggests that Chapin-Stephens either > achieved 18% productivity improvement over the period > to hold prices constant, or they ran themselves out of > business over time. Not necessarily I think. Even if they kept catalog prices constant, chances are they changed their discounts over time. Norm in Fort Collins, CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158192 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-13 18:59:35 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? According to the pundits: 1901-1929, Chapin - Stevens In 1901, this merged into Chapin - Stevens. Mr. Holmes continued as President, H. M. Chapin as Vice-President, Frank Chapin as Treasurer, and L C Stephens as Secretary. After 1908, and the death of Mr. Holmes, Frank Chapin became President. The firm reorganized in 1927, and dissolved in 1929. Stanley Rule and Level Co of New Britain acquired the line of rules, but did not continue making the wooden planes, which were abandoned. So within 15 years the venerable firm of Chapin-Stephens went bellyup. Of course, the market for wooden planes was disappearing about that time with Stanley R&L in ascendence. I would surmise, barring a re-reading of Ken Roberts book, that C-S managed to survive for a good many years through manufacturing volume and branding before succumbing to the rise of metallic planes. Cheers Gary On Mar 13, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Charlie Driggs wrote: > Gary asks .. >> The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the >> status of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation >> flat or where there changes? I'll have to log in to some >> databases I have access to and see if there is anything that I >> can turn up on that time period. > > Well, this source: > > http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi > > comes up with: > > What cost $100 in 1902 would cost $118.72 in 1914. > Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1914 and 1902, > they would cost you $100 and $84.23 respectively. > Which merely suggests that Chapin-Stephens either achieved 18% > productivity improvement over the period to hold prices constant, > or they ran themselves out of business over time. > > Charlie Driggs > > Newark DE > > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158193 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-13 19:07:37 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) tonyseo@m... writes: There is a book Puzzles In Wood by E.M. Wyatt that has all this kind of neat stuff. It was published a while ago but has been reprinted a number of times. (Don't even waste yer time with Amazon.... the cheapest used copy there was like $50. Try the 'Bay, search for "Wonders in Wood" by E.M. Wyatt (book) lots of them available for about $6.00 USD. Cheers, J~ John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158194 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-13 19:36:57 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) I saw something like this, but can't find it now. Closest I can find is a David Charlesworth article titled Twist Again about a joint that he refers to as a twisted dovetail. A magazine did a story on the dovetailed mallet in 2005, but again I can't find it. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Blake Ashley > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:01 PM > To: Anthony Seo; oldtools@r...; Alan DuBoff > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) > > Alan asks: "Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail > joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any > joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness?" > > I seem to recall a weird box joint illustrated in FWW that > appeared to be impossible to assemble or dissassemble. They > had a whole article on it. I think they attributed it to the > Japanese. I'll see if I can find it when I get home tonight. > > Blake > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158195 ---- From: Kyle Accardi Date: 2006-03-13 16:38:54 Subject: Re: WTB 1/2" cutter for Stanley #50 Oops, subject line is wrong, I am looking for a 1/4" cutter, with grooves baby. Kyle Accardi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158196 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-13 16:50:31 Subject: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Have been down the path -- used 2by stock and 4 by stock. 2by4 vertical and 2by4, 2by6 etc sides. 4 foot by 8 foot by whatever. The deepest is about 18 inches high and the lowest is 8 inches. I by works with a few 2by2 stakes to hold the sides in. Cedar heart-wood good for about 15 years. Pressure treated about the same. Redwood heart-wood never gets this far north. Nails never fail - wood rots first 4by4 stacked works. McFeeley now has big screws instead of rebar -- drill with brace and bit and drive the screws with a socket in the brace. I like this with a honking big brace. Lee Valley sells a kit that uses a 2by4 sill and clips with concrete side panels and a by4 top rail -- looks good and lasts a long long time. My daughter went that option. It all works - some just last longer Ken in Juneau ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158197 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-14 12:06:03 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil Tom Holloway writes, quoting Dave Berry: > Kerosene is also _mainly_ saturated hydrocarbons, but it's chock full > of all kinds of aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene, not to > mention generic impurities known around the chem lab by the technical > terms "brown gunk" or sh*t. One of the reasons it's so cheap is that > it costs money to refine (purify) kerosene into mineral spirits. Pure > hydrocarbons are colorless, last kerosene I saw was almost orange pink. Kerosene in Oz used to be gin-clear, no evident "brown gunk" or turdological contamination, and was quite often bought in bulk in four-gallon tins or drums, leading to the storage of small amounts for use (heating, cooking, refrigerating, lighting etc.) in bottles. Unfortunately, some persons chose to store it in clear soft-drink (soda?) bottles with the result that on more occasions than was helpful for the purposes of populating this land it was swallowed by children. A result of all this was that some years ago legislation was introduced requiring that kerosene be coloured blue. It's hard to fathom, but not long after blue kerosene appeared on the market the soft-drink manufacturers decided that what the kiddies really needed was blue lemonade. Ain't commerce wonderful? Maybe the kerosene of Oz is the equivalent of the mineral spirits of U.S., although it was always thought that the product called "Shellite" was such equivalent? Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158198 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-13 23:07:54 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil >Kerosene in Oz used to be gin-clear, > Here too. Or at least some vendors. Some sell vile stuff though. It's all a matter of how long you've lived here and where you buy it. Downtown Yreka, nasty stuff @$3.00 a gallon in a tin. 6 miles away in Montague, $2.00 and clear as spring water, pumped from the pump next to the gas and diesel. Bring your own container. Paint thinner you can get for $1.25 a gallon anyplace. > no evident turdological >contamination, > No matter how bad, never saw kerosene this bad!! They might be dumb in Yreka town, but they know enough not to store it under the outhouse! Yours Scott Who has trimmed many a kerosene lampwick until a full, soft even light was obtained. Try it *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158199 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-14 16:56:04 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint Alan wrote in part: I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the others on the porch think the solution is. PeterH chips in: I've just knocked up half the joint for you Al, but as you can see, it is digital only. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3654 PeterH in Perth enjoying 32 degree warmth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158200 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 17:29:34 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Tuesday 14 March 2006 12:56 am, Peter Huisman wrote: > I've just knocked up half the joint for you Al, but as you can see, it > is digital only. > > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id Yes, exactly how I had suspected it, and others described. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say. I was thinking about this joint, and I can see a use for it if one wanted to experiment with wood tones, say a 3 piece leg with a middle section of a different wood species such as walnut and mahagony, or cherry and walnut, etc...putting that joinery between each section of the leg. Funny, the other joint, the double dovetail, is comprehended easily when accompanied with the diagram from the Woodworker's Journal which Stephen Shepherd wrote back in 2001. Thanks again to Charles Rodgers for pointing this thread to ilovewood.com, that mallet is an elegant looking joint...I'll smoke to that!;-) Oops, sorry for that politically-incorrectness... I'm very much looking forward to the puzzle book I ordered today (thanks Tony). Not sure if there's any nifty joints to incorporate into projects or not, but it sounds like a great book which I've heard others talk about previously. I got a nice treat today when a package arrived from Wenzloff & Sons, makers of custom handcrafted hand saws...Even though my wife failed to tell me when it arrived (WTF was she thinking???;-), when I opened the box I was pleasantly greeted with some nice joinery saws. I was just out cutting various woods, and these are truely exceptional tools. I'm marking out a dovetail joint now...(no, neither of the joints in this thread, but a half blind houndstooth, purple heart and hickory). Getting late so not sure if I'll get it cut tonight. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158201 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-14 10:30:56 Subject: Card scraper for backsaw blade Dear list members, I'm planing to build some hand tools to help me in my woodworking projects. One of the things I need is a small backsaw and while doing some research I came across this: http://www.sydnassloot.com/bbuckner/saws.htm "A small, 6" backsaw. It's a copy of one made originally by Groves & Sons. This one still needs to have its teeth cut (the blade is actually a thin card scraper)." How good a solution is this, to make the blade with card scraper? Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158202 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-14 11:43:41 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane Gary Roberts wrote: > Paul > > When I picked up one of these Marples planes a year or so ago, I too > thought it was a drawer bottom plane. But alas, no. The Buck & Hickman > catalog of 1953 lists this is a grooving plane, to be paired with a > separate purchase tongue plane for the mundane tongue & groove joints. Dang. He's right, and my ignorance is revealed (and remedied, of course :-). Here's a more subtle reference from 1935 Buck & Hickman: http://www.ros- eantiquetools.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth- =actual&linkpath=http://roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebui- lderpictures/hickmanplanes2.jpg&target=tlx_new&title=Wood%20Planes http://tinyurl.com/lwd4z Page 631 lists (under Grooving or Match planes) option D, "Moving Tonguing and Grooving, with 3 pairs irons..." which is clearly what we've got here. I've never seen the moving tonguing plane, but I've seen a couple of the grooving variety. Correct names notwithstanding, does anyone (else!) think that the grooving plane may well have been used for drawer bottoms? BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158203 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-14 04:31:27 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT --- scott grandstaff wrote: > Much as I love wood Outside, uncovered, in direct contact with the > ground......every wood is a heartbreak Cement or stone is the only > lasting answer. Doesnt; have to be plain jane looking though. Hi Scott--- The trick is to avoid SATURATING contact with the ground--- 4x4s wrapped in tarpaper and set in postholes with 6" of gravel at the bottom of the hole will last many years, more than I've got left---if they're not hemlock, or SPF (which is never 'F', in my experience)--- some guys say that if you fire the posts before setting them---char their outsides---that will make them last longer. I've seen it done, but have yet to see any OLD posts that were treated that way. Just last week I set a quartet of scrounged redwood 4x4 posts for my garden bed---in postholes filled with concrete, the posts're also wrapped with tarpaper and set on gravel---I fully expect them to last fifty years, or until they're razed by townhouse developers. Plus, they already lasted many years in the weather before I scrounged 'em. In my line of work, I've demolished or TLC'd many cedar and fir constructions in proper ground contact, that is to say, breathing and never immersed for long. Fence posts of fir and cedar were frequently set naked into the ground around here and they lasted for decades, the ones set with gravel underneath to prevent saturation. The locust posts lasted a long time too, but that's because they turned back into trees. I've broken my back pulling raw fir fenceposts that were destroyed by the elements above and remained pristine (relatively) underneath the earth. When rebuilding the Cedar River waterway in the 80's---that's Seattle's main water source---immense pipes made of hollowed Red Cedar logs were discovered still in use, wooden pipes that had been buried underground on gravel beds and had been carrying water for close on 100 years...while remodeling my bathroom this past few weeks, I discovered a ton of rot inside the wall---water had been collecting from a bad shower enclosure and rotting along the nailers at the rim of the tub. But in the window, where shower water was gathered by the stool ('stool' meaning: the "sill" inside the sash--the true sill's a single piece of wood draining to the outside of the house---it's the bottom of the window's case and roofs the entire wall below) to deliver the shower overspray to the rotten part---where all that damaging water came from, in other words, there was NO ROT at the source. All the nails holding the stool were rusted through and there was a serious canyon eroded in the plaster below it---beneath the formica--- but the fir sill and stool have no rot whatsoever. This is after years of water transmission, enough to completely rot the much larger 2x4s below. Why didn't the window members rot too? Because they drain and breathe. The 2x4 kickers lying flat below and caulked tight at the rim of the tub couldn't drain OR breathe, and they rotted completely away. Same wood, btw, Douglas Fir. It's astounding how many Seattle homes were built ON THE DIRT with fir and/or cedar plinths around the turn of the century---people in my circle buy these homes regularly, and they always seem to need a little help. After 80 or 100 years resting on the soil, it ain't surprising. I'd use red cedar or douglas fir for planking a planterbox (or cypress, if I could get it) with weeping spaces between the slats if I's going for higher beds---mine's planned for about 30" high, btw, and I can't imagine going to all the effort to build a planter box that you still have to bend over to weed. At tabletop height, it's a picnic to seed and weed. Mine's 11' by 4' overall, (conceptually---at this point it's just posts set for those dimensions and a pile of scrounged cedar planks). With access to three sides, everything's within reach---I expect there'll be some outward bowing of the 11' sides of the box, but I don't care, it'll look cool. It's a feature. The bottom 10" of the box, BTW, is my sanitary landfill, where all the remodeling plaster waste, sifted rocks and inert garbage around my property is destined to go..I may put that Sears Aluminum Garden Shed under there, too, if I can get it demolished in time. Gonna grow those big round dark green watermelons, tomatoes and peppers. You'd think that it ain't hot enough, or sunny enough in Seattle to properly raise these things, but it's being done every year by friends of mine--tomatoes and peppers anyway, and how much more sun does Seattle get in the summer than N California? About 10%, is my guess. Treated lumber? I wouldn't use it to chock the wheels on my truck. It's BS, plain, utter and simple. I will happily entertain disputes from anyone who has more experience than me with the stuff, as long as it's not SALES experience. best to you; GAM in West Seattle How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158204 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-14 07:34:51 Subject: Oak Floor Ideas Sought GG's A friend of mine lives in an 8 year old house with Oak floors (pretty standard 3" T&G strips). The floor had some surface wear, and she decided to have them refinished. Up to this time, the floor had functioned very well. The only problem was some surface scratches. I would not have elected to have them sanded down to bare wood, but that was her decision, and she had somebody do just that. The floors were sanded, and the workers put down three coats of some water based finish. I am sure it was water based, but I am not sure of the brand. They said it was a "sealer". After these coats had been down about 2 weeks, she accidentally spilled a small spot of water based cleaner on the floor, and this cleaner immediately went through the finish and penetrated the wood. It was very clear that the cleaner went through the finish and darkened the wood itself. One adjacent room had not been refinished, and we tested the cleaner on that original finish: noting happened. The cleaning solution sat on the finish for 30 minutes, and the finish showed no signs of anything once the solution had been wiped up (One could not tell it had been on the finish at all). This is just what one would want from a finish. Once I saw this, I concluded that the "sealer" that had been applied was not sufficient. A little on-line research lead me to "Parks Pro" water based polyurethane finish which we bought at the local (orange) Borg. The refinishers agreed to put down two coats of this finish. This solved the problem of a water based cleaner penetrating the finish. Now for the real problem, on which I seek your advice and expertise: The floor was refinished in October '05 (in the Chicago area). By late December, the oak floor boards began to separate, I assume as the humidity lowered due to central Forced Air Gas (FAG) heat. Note that the house never had any problems with the oak flooring shrinking or separating in the previous 7 winters, and a central air system humidifier was in place and functioning in the FAG heating system. The shrinkage has been substantial. There is a noticeable separation between the floor boards about every 1 to 2 feet. These separations range from 1/32" to 3/32". As the weather has started to warm up, and the air is more humid, the gaps between the boards have decreased a little. I suspect that the wood will swell back to its full size once the central heat is turned off, and higher humidity has been with us for a month or two. At that time, I'd like to find a better water based finish if possible, and apply it over the current finish w/o taking it down to bare wood if possible. So, here are my questions: 1) Can you think of another likely explanation that would make my solution unworkable? 2) I did not see the application of the first two coats of "sealer", but it was not a traditional paste filler (applied wet, wiped in and then sanded when dry): The pores of the oak are still open to some degree. Would the lack of filler be a sufficient reason to cause this problem? 3) If you think my diagnosis is correct, can you suggest a water based finish that would provide an effective moisture barrier and thus control shrinkage? Thanks in advance for your individual and collective knowledge. Chris 4) If more than additional finish is needed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158205 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-14 07:02:36 Subject: Re: C.T.Skelton Hand Saw Peter Robinson asked about: >... this poor old handsaw - it's my first so it's going to get some >care and attention. Hopefully I'll be able to bring it back to the >living, though I'm not quite sure what it was meant to be at it's >inception. > >Here's a shot of the beast - the blade is about 25" long. >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >... >Is it worth the effort? > Well, I'm not going to attempt an answer as to whether this sad example of a saw is worth the effort needed to revive it, but the posting of your question has added to my knowledge about British saws. We have known of C. T. Skelton & Co as a maker of light and heavy edge tools, with these working dates (tentative) and locations: Skelton & Co., Charles Thomas Sheffield 1868 - 1927 Hackenthorpe Sheaf Bank Works, Heeley [1879 - 1911] (Limited by 1905) 14 Sheaf Bank/23 Gleadless Road [1927] While light edge tools of their manufacture are extant, this firm seems to have been best known for heavy edge tools such as spades, billhooks, etc. This is the first mention, I've seen, of a saw purporting to be of their manufacture. Though, it is possible it was made by another manufacturer and sold under their mark. According to directory listings, they became a limited firm some time between 1901 and 1905. If your saw doesn't have the "LTD" mark, it likely predates 1905 - that may help narrow down its age a little. Hope this is of a little interest. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR (About to head East in a few minutes - "going for the beech") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158206 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-14 07:03:49 Subject: RE: Re: boiling oil John, Tom and GGs--I cannot pass up such a juicy or shall we substantive conversation on the scatological nature of Kerosene! The Kero I buy by the gallon at the local Ace mini-borg, by the gallon, is crystal clear and stays that way save over time water will form on the bottom of the container. With all deference to Dave Barry, I ain't never seen anything even closely scat related in my Kero. Maybe Dave got a batch of #2 scatological diesel fuel! As a hydrocarbon it has its own unique particular odor which no doubt releases many other chemical as it evaporate. If I use it outside it is just fine. It is a great solvent, but evaporates slowly on anything porous where it sinks into--say cloth or automobile carpeting. Never tried it on wood handles, but have used it to loosen gunk on rusty old tools and tar on the car. I use somebody else's toothbrush, however, to do the scrubbing. It leaves a light oily film temporarily IME. My nasty comments regarding Kero and migraines were a purely idiosyncratic issue. Most people do not have that reaction. I am just very sensitive to hydrocarbon odours, so you can't generalize from my experience. I have found that I prefer liquid paraffin because it works as well and doesn't stink and does well in most of the oil lamps as well. Somebody asked why you would use a solvent with BLO and my limited experience simply indicates that BLO doesn't seem to absorb into wood as well by itself. It stays on the surface and often leaves a tacky feel to the tool even if you rub like crazy. Can't say for sure what is being absorbed, but it seems to leave an oil finish on the wood that is protective if renewed periodically. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of John Manners > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:06 PM > To: Tom Holloway; Galoots > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: boiling oil > > Tom Holloway writes, quoting Dave Berry: > > > Kerosene is also _mainly_ saturated hydrocarbons, but it's chock full > > of all kinds of aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene, not to > > mention generic impurities known around the chem lab by the technical > > terms "brown gunk" or sh*t. One of the reasons it's so cheap is that > > it costs money to refine (purify) kerosene into mineral spirits. Pure > > hydrocarbons are colorless, last kerosene I saw was almost orange pink. > > Kerosene in Oz used to be gin-clear, no evident "brown gunk" or > turdological > contamination, and was quite often bought in bulk in four-gallon tins or > drums, leading to the storage of small amounts for use (heating, cooking, > refrigerating, lighting etc.) in bottles. Unfortunately, some persons > chose > to store it in clear soft-drink (soda?) bottles with the result that on > more > occasions than was helpful for the purposes of populating this land it was > swallowed by children. A result of all this was that some years ago > legislation was introduced requiring that kerosene be coloured blue. It's > hard to fathom, but not long after blue kerosene appeared on the market > the > soft-drink manufacturers decided that what the kiddies really needed was > blue lemonade. Ain't commerce wonderful? > > Maybe the kerosene of Oz is the equivalent of the mineral spirits of U.S., > although it was always thought that the product called "Shellite" was such > equivalent? > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158207 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 21:18:09 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Tuesday 14 March 2006 04:34 am, Chris Berger wrote: > 3) If you think my diagnosis is correct, can you suggest a water based > finish that would provide an effective moisture barrier and thus control > shrinkage? > Thanks in advance for your individual and collective knowledge. Not sure how helpful I can be, but I use a water based finish from Benjimin Moore which is pretty easy to use. I actually have it on my kitchen cabinets, per a friend's reccomendation. Might sound odd, but in the kitchen if you use laquer and splash the counters, they get spots on them, and this floor finish is very durable and shows the natural color of the wood. The other products I can reccomend is Sansin, quite a few log home folks like these products and I've used clear over knotty pine in my office. They have decking stain and finish, but not flooring. I laid wood floor not long ago in my office, but it was pre-finished. I was actually quite pleased with it, Bellawood, was cheap and fairly good quality product. One thing you need to watch out for is the thickness of the top layer of wood. If the flooring is 3/8" there's a very, very, thin top layer, if you look at a cross section of the t&g. With 3/4" it's substantially more, and about twice as thick. I used 3/4" in case I do need to sand it in the future. But this finish is guaranteed for 50 years, whatever that means...I don't live another 50 years I don't think...:-/ -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158208 ---- From: Hunter.COX@i... Date: 2006-03-14 09:47:36 Subject: Re: The Road To Damascus - Finale Following up on Tony's post - now everyone knows I am not an older distinguished gentleman! - this was my first PATINA sale, and it was great. Got to meet Tony Seo and Slav, plus saw a bunch of RATS from Richmond up there and other miscellaneous dealers that I see around at shows. Got more stuff than I should have but I was like a kid in a candy store. Got a MF Cigar Shave, and a bunch of odds and ends from the dealers, Stuck around for the auction, got some good stuff there, a $20 271 mini-router and a $40 #46, looks to be a type 3 or 4, with just one cutter though -. not like I was stealing 'em but those were 2 things on my wish list. Was staying with the in-laws up there and they were amazed that I could spend the entire day at a tool show and not get bored. If you haven't been and are in driving distance, make sure that you go to the next PATINA sale, it is worth the drive. Now, a WTB, anybody have any cutters for a #46? I realize that St James Bay has new ones but if there are some floating around that need a nice home.... Hunter in Richmond This message and all attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Neither Degremont Group nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158209 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-14 10:10:12 Subject: LFOD Auction Report (Long and as windy as the day) GG's I had the pleasure of seeing Steve L & Steve N at LFOD last Saturday in Indy. It was quite a good auction, and I thought you might enjoy a short report. (I was not able to make the Friday auction, but heard that it was well attended, with very brisk bidding.) Rain was threatening, and indeed the skies opened up before the auction started. Consequently, there was no outside tail gaiting action. There were about 6 dealers set up inside, but I did not have time to see what they were offering (other than Don Rosebrook with many fancy plow planes). There were some interesting items in the auction, although I did not think that there was as many (total) items as past LFOD auctions. Still, most of the items (with occasional exceptions) were clean, undamaged and in Good+ or better condition. One interesting (and to me unexpected) aspect of this auction is that there were a lot of floor bidders. I would guess about 125 - 150 people on the floor. This is probably close to double typical in person attendance for the past three or four years. Another very positive characteristic was that many of these were new faces. (Martin commented to me later that he thought there were about 50% of the floor bidders were new folks.) Roughly half of the sales were to floor bidders, and the rest absentee. Overall, I thought that prices were strong, with some notable exceptions. On the weak end, most Stanley lots sold for the low end (or even less) than their estimates. (I thought the estimates were quite realistic.) Only a few exceptions to that such as a Bedrock 604 1/2c for $550, and a less than Good- Bedrock 602 for $525, and a crisp No.2 with most of its original decal on the tote for $440, and a 444 in the box (with often missing lid) for $1100. Stanley No 87 scraper plane $1600. Prices, BTW are rounded and include the 10% buyers fee. Interesting categories and items include: 1) Tape measures were strong all day, with a highlight being a lufkin advertising tape for $440. (Slav, you are a rich man!) I think there were 5 or 6 tape measure lots (most all in fine condition) and they pretty much went for high estimates or above. 2) Wood planes of noted makers, or makers from the Midwest, South or South east were very strong (Eastern US & English makers, were more reasonably priced) E. W. Carpenter 22" ship rabbet $550 Toted Ohio Tool moving fillister $300 Spafford, Belford Ohio quarter round $300 Extra wide complex molder (no maker) $300 Cinci King & Fugate Gothic bead $275 Handled Mahogany plow by A Howland $440 Wooding Rebate $245 Unmarked rosewood 22" jointer $225 Ohio Tool No 58 Screw arm fillister $550 ! (I have an extra if you are interested) 72" Cooper's jointer (with splits and patches) $310 8.25" wide crown molder (no makers mark) $1650 3) Hammers strong all day: Patented glazier's hammer $250 Fancy jeweler's hammer $250 File-makers $225 Hammer lapel pin $135 4) Plumb bobs strong Group of 5 (not outstanding) $400 Preston 2" $135 "Detroit Lubricator" 8" (coolest Bob there says the Indiana boy that got her) $385 Classic turnip 4" (fine) $250 Classic turnip 5" (fine) $275 4) Perfect handle tools were very strong 6" "S" handle adjustable wrench (fine) $250 Folding/triple handle screwdriver (fine) $365 5) Patented and special planes seemed quite strong (most at or above high estimate) Four Multiform rabbets with handle $1325 Pair of ebony & brass coach makers planes $1,000 Phillips improved plow (w/irons) $1,325 6) Wrenches I don't follow, but one caught my eye: Duebber's "patent applied for" Double ugly at $2,250.00 (You read that right!) 7) Saws generally solid to strong all day with a highlight being a Pete Turan (Independence Tool) 9" backsaw with rosewood tote new cond. $550 Atkins No. 53 Rip $165 All Disstons pretty strong, but not crazy 7) Levels were generally solid Nine inch Stanley No 98 $440 9" rosewood & Brass English level $225 Davis 7" inclinometer $550 8) Tool chests (at least 5 nice ones) went consistently below estimates. There didn't seem to be any or many absentee bids on these and I am guessing shipping costs would have been prohibitive. Really changes the dynamics of the auction. 52" Small workbench with vice (Good) $275 9) A few rulers were strong, but most were priced quite reasonably. The highest: Stanley No. 036 combination rule, level, etc. $550 Stanley No 40, 12" 4 fold English-Metric Ivory rule $1,100 Stanley 40 1/2 ivory $330 10) Gauges were pretty strong Brown & Berry six stem $3850 Winslow Pat $200 Marshall's machinist gauge $550 Fisher Pat bevel (Disston & Morse) $770 Nester Patent marking gauge $330 Decorative brass marking gauge (no maker's mark) $300 11) Ivory tipped plow planes were (with one exception) out of sight! S.H. Porter (made by Ohio Tool) rosewood & fine $2,100 (and the new fellow said that he wasn't interested in the mark, just wanted an ivory tipped rosewood plow!) G Auld Sandusky center wheel replica w/6 ivory tips (15 years old) $2,550 (The center wheel was loose, and the center arm would not turn with normal finger pressure.) D R Barton unhandled rosewood ivory tipped plow $2,420 Casey & Co unhandled rosewood ivory tipped plow $1,210 (Go Figure!) A Howland toted boxwood ivory tipped plow $800 (the exception to the pattern, I thought as I tucked her under my arm.....No, that is certainly not gloatable, but I was happy!) Americana like tools and implements were also strong. As I left the auction with my good friend, Jan Cover (Long time tool collector, former Galoot and Philosophy Professor) I commented that it seemed to me that the old tool market is really picking up steam, with prices for midrange as well as high end items really gaining. Jan said "One auction does not a trend make......could have been cabin fever and the first big auction of the year." To which, I must agree that the ragged old Professor may well be correct! It will be interesting to watch Brown, LFOD and other good auctions (like Darley's Barn on August 26, 2006) as the season unfolds. And, if you like Stanley, this may be an excellent time to be a disciplined buyer! (Try some low-ball absentee bids if you can't attend.) Ok, time to get to work. Regards to all. Chris, in sunny and cool West Lafayette, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158210 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-14 10:53:34 Subject: C D Dickinson Hammer GG;s I came across a broom maker's hammer by C. D. Dickinson & Son. DAT lists them as makers of broom makers hammers, but has no date or location. Does anybody have any additional information on tis company? TIA Chris....finding too many reasons to play with tools instead of working this morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158211 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-14 07:59:34 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil Hey Bruce Yup, you know. Most wouldn't. Trimming lampwick for maximum reliable light with no soot is a major challenge. Simple as it seems at first thought. I'm looking out the window at light snow on top of 6-8" . Could be trimming wicks tonight! And Paul, it's weird what people will develop an allergy to. I can't take much paint thinner/parts solvent. Kerosene hasn't ever bothered me, dirty or not. But to wash even a small bush out in poorly circulating air and I'll be reaching for the aspirin bigtime. This is not supposed to be possible from a chemical standpoint. Wish someone would convince my head. I can take more laquer thinner than ordinary paint thinner. Must be an exposure thing. BLO sinks into wood as the wood lets it. Pine end grain, you can't even get it wet however many coats you use. Face grain maple, it hardly sinks in at all. All the oaks will take some and need it bad, including zebra. Rosewoods variable but mostly only very little and cocobolo, same as zip. Fruitwood ain't fruitwood without it. I don't thin it. I'll slosh it on from a dish soap bottle and rub in with my fingers alone (who needs soaked rags?) give it some time and wipe back off. Never needed thinner. I don't consider it a finish. Oil finish alone tends to go black in time. Not exactly what you wanted from your birdseye or quilted grain. Best finish prep I know though. Everything, save certain acrylic enamels, will go over it and love it. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158212 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-14 08:45:38 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane On 14 Mar 2006 at 11:43, paul womack wrote: > Correct names notwithstanding, does anyone (else!) think > that the grooving plane may well have been used > for drawer bottoms? That's how I used to make them before I had any plow/plough planes - I just used the groove half of a tongue and groove pair. Not adjustable in my case, but it was where I wanted it anyway. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158213 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-14 17:16:00 Subject: Bow saw v.s. Frame saw Dear list members, While researching on some of the tools I plan to build, I came across what seems to be the two names for the same tool. "Bow saw" and "Frame saw". Is there a difference between the two? Is it just the same of the frame? Also, I believe I've seen some Bow/Frame saws without the handles, in which case I assume in this case the blade is fixed at a given angle, whereas the ones with the handles allow the angle to be change, something I consider more useful in a turning saw. Can someone shed some light on this matter? Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158214 ---- From: Christopher Swingley Date: 2006-03-14 08:29:29 Subject: Re: Bow saw v.s. Frame saw Luis, * Luis Martins [2006-Mar-14 08:16 AKST]: > While researching on some of the tools I plan to build, I came across > what seems to be the two names for the same tool. "Bow saw" and "Frame > saw". Is there a difference between the two? Is it just the same of > the frame? Attempting to jump the gun on BugBear, check out this thread from the Archives: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?messag- e_id=94855&submit_thread=1 A nice discussion of the differences between these two. My impression is that a frame saw is used for resawing and has a fixed blade in the middle of the saw. A bow saw is used for cutting curves (or straight cuts), and has the blade along one edge rather than in the middle. Bow saws also generally allow you to turn the blade relative to the "frame". Cheers, Chris -- Christopher S. Swingley University of Alaska Fairbanks cswingle@i... http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/ OldTools Searchable Archive: http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158215 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-14 14:44:54 Subject: Dogwood Eventually, I would like to make a traditional plough plane. I picture something in walnut with all the brass trimmings. I have a screw box and tap that are the ideal size for the arms and I want a secondary wood that will take a nice thread and be strong enough to resist any stresses that are transferred from the fence. I noticed Lee Valley sells dogwood (Cornus florida) blocks at a good price. They describe it as being close grained and great for handles and turning. Would this be a suitable wood for my plough arms? What about the walnut? Thanks, Jim Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158216 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-14 14:04:54 Subject: RE: Dogwood Jim: FWIW, I have some (several, actually) of those LV dogwood blocks in both sizes. I have some pics posted on GIC of a mallet I made from it and black walnut. My usage places the female threads in the dogwood and the male threads in the walnut, but I think doing it vice-versa would work just as well. Both threaded very well with a cheap Harbor Freight 3/4" wood threader. I've also turned some candle stands from the dogwood. I like the wood a lot! The directions that came with my threader strongly recommend that the wood be well oiled prior to threading. I slathered it in BLO and let it soak for about an hour. It worked just fine although it did darken the wood just a little. Here's a link to a pic of the mallet: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1035 I think you'd be safe using the dogwood, but don't know enough to offer an opinion on the walnut. Charlie Rodgers, Clinton, Maryland > I noticed Lee Valley sells dogwood (Cornus florida) blocks at a good price. > They describe it as being close grained and great for handles and turning. > Would this be a suitable wood for my plough arms? What about the walnut? > Thanks, > Jim > Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158217 ---- From: M P Smoak Date: 2006-03-14 14:36:42 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT On Monday 13 March 2006 08:11, James DuPrie wrote: > Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make > some raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something > fairly simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The I set out to do a similar plan 20+ years ago; asked similar questions and read lots of books, ... and came up with a very functional, highly productive, easily maintained garden. > So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised > beds? I hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was > thinking white cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up > to the weight of the dirt pushing out without developing major bows. > While looks aren't that important, I'd rather avoid things like Think several time about looks; see below. > .... but I'm worried about the rough stuff > throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the garden > all summer long). .... > > Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated - especially if you've done > something like this before, and can report on the durability..... > > > Thanks > --JD What I found in my asking and reading was that I didn't need any wood or other containment for the beds at all. 4ft x 8ft beds, 6in. high worked great and with not having containment, they were easy to till with hand tools or a small tiller. The was 5 rows of 3 4x8beds xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx with 2ft paths between beds. Worked great; beautifully productive and easy to maintain. Mistakes I made: paths should have been wider; it looked like a horse cemetery in winter. I lost that garden several years ago when we built a new garage. A key IMHO to maintaining a bed garden is to never step into (much less walk) into a bed once it's built. The hauling off of the old garage waste and hauling in and staging of the new material wrecked the garden. I'm just now getting ready to build it again. This time it will have 4 L shaped beds around a rectangular center bed with paths at least 3ft. So unless you really need containment, don't do it. Layout the beds; till a bed, then dig it out 3-4in deep (put dirt in path or on a tarp) and till the bed again. Replace the soil you dug out mixing in lots of good compost and if you have lots of clay like we do, mix in course builders sand to improve drainage (fine, sandbox type sand won't work). Lots of work upfront but well worth it longterm. And teach git's, and others who don't know, that stepping or walking in a bed will greatly injure it and simply is not done. There are situations where containment is needed. A few years ago I bought a few old tools from a yard sale where the gent in his late 70's had a beautiful garden with beds in containers 2x8ft x 16in deep made of exterior plywood, painted and lined with plastic film with drainage holes. Each container was about three feet off the lawn on 4x4in legs sitting on concrete pads. Looked great, very productive, easy for him to maintain with not bending, etc. He said they were about 15 years old. Good luck with your garden, JT and all, and cross your fingers for me. I've found the compost I need; looking now for someone to haul it in and someone more fit than me to help me do that upfront work. Marv in Lexington KY where what's that, is it spring I see... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158218 ---- From: "Bill Fariss" Date: 2006-03-14 14:52:00 Subject: miter templates question I purchased two Brass miter templates awhile back. One is a Tyzack and one is a Preston. The difference between the two is that one is solid and one is a frame. Both are about the same size. I have been using the solid unit with no problems. I have not used the frame type because I am not clear as to how you attach it to the wood you want to miter. Does anyone have any information as to why a maker would design a miter template that is essentially a frame and not solid? Is that type of template designed for a certain type of miter work? I would appreciate any insight into this problem I have. Bill Fariss Sterling, Va ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158219 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-14 14:53:59 Subject: Re: GIT Sculpture... My kid is 6 but at 3 all she did in the shop was play with sawdust, paint on the lower cabinet doors smear glue all over scraps blocks and make sculptures. Its all good, a kid familier with the shop is a kid who sees the value in hand skills, is not afraid to build stuff and will learn about patience, if only from letting the glue dry. Those enclosed gear hand drills, Sears or Dunlap are great additions to the GIT kit, and the edge tool use is under extreme supervision. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Jason Knight To: oldtools@r... Sent: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [OldTools] GIT Sculpture... Whew! How old is the GIT? I spent some quality time with the 3 year old this weekend. I was planing some pieces of trim work, GIT was using his shovel to scoop up the shavings, I wasn't looking and he hooked the shovel on something, forced it free, and whallopped the dickens out of my finger. I actually don't know if he whallopped the dickens out of it, but he did whallop some blood and some unfortunate vocabulary out of me. I'm not sure we're ready for edge tools yet, but he's a big fan of the egg beater drill. I picked up another last week at the liberty tools season opening sale, partly to be a beginning of the GIT toolbox. Nothing particularly gloat worthy from the tool sale, other than a swmbo who gave me a gift certificate for old tools and a 3 year old GIT who put up with an amazingly crowded shop (both people and tools) for over an hour as daddy wandered around in a daze. For those that may be curious, $50 got me 2 rabbet planes (1" and 1.5"), the egg beater, a draw knife, and two chisels (3/4" looks hand forged, mushroomed socket, and 5/8" , crummy handle, but blade and socket look good). None of it looks to be much beyond user quality, but that's what I need. Jason ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158220 ---- From: "john" Date: 2006-03-14 13:25:22 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Hi Chris and other GGs, First this is long, so if you're not interested in floor finishes, just move along. One caveat, I do a lot of finishing; I don't do a lot of floor finishing, but know those who do. And, if anyone wants to make any corrections, feel free. First, the sanding. If you're going to refinish an oak floor, sanding it down to bare wood is usually a good idea. You can sand or screen it lightly and recoat, but practically, finishes wear unevenly, some scratches and gouges will be found to have gone down to the wood, sand-throughs are easy, and it just makes for a better, more even job. Plus, you don't save much money. I agree with Alan DuBoff, who warned about sanding thin wood, which is especially recommended (i.e., the warning) with newer houses. However, this should not be a problem for any professional (or probably anyone), especially on the first refinish. Usually, you can just check by removing a heating/cooling vent or by removing a bit of shoe mold and baseboard. Next, sealers. Sealers are increasingly used by contractors -- think of them of wiping varnishes -- very thin. They are not surface finishes. They are kind of misnomer. They are a finish, not a preliminary finishing step. They are thin enough they really don't set on the wood, but soak into the wood, so there was never much "finish" for your cleaner to go through. Sealers are said to "wear with the wood" because they are in the surface, not on the surface, so the pores of the wood would definitely appear more open. Most of them are oil based but there are water-based products too and, generally, they wear equally well. Contractors like the water-based products because they are pretty durable, the job goes faster because of the short drying time, which also means less dust in the finish. Also, clients don't spend two weeks complaining about the odor. Sealers are definitely not grain fillers. Whether you can use a filler with a sealer, I'm not sure. I tend to doubt it. Sealers will definitely need more consistent maintenance than surface finishes but the maintenance is easier and cheaper. And each successive coat contributes to the depth of the finish. In bygone days, when people actually waxed their floors, they did it because wax was the cap on this kind of finish. And, while it took work, it also looked beautiful. However, wax or these finishes are not going to look like a gloss or semi-gloss film finish that lies on the surface. It's also never going to resist scratches, stains, etc. like a surface finish. That doesn't make it a poor finish, it's just different than a surface finish. And finally, water-based cleaning products will(!) definitely damage sealers. A lot of them have ammonia and that is poison for water-based finishes. In fact, I don't water-based cleaners are good for any sealer. I wish I knew about the chemistry of it, but I'm sure one of the chemists out there does. The finishers of your friend's floor should have advised him/her about how to maintain the floor and what the manufacturer's recommendations were. Without seeing the floor, I'm guessing that the seasonal movement of the floor boards has always been there; it was noticed after the finishing because the floor was being watched more closely. Replacing a film finish with a sealer might exacerbate the phenomenon, but the new finish hasn't affected the ends, edges and bottom of the boards. To my knowledge, this happens to all hardwood floors to varying degrees. Putting a film finish on top probably won't greatly affect this. Adding more coats of sealer probably won't either. Since the current finish is fully cured, you shouldn't have a problem recoating with a good water-based poly. I would screen the surface first, but I don't think you have to do anything else. I do not think the added film finish would be an overall advantage, but it is certainly a different look and a film finish does provide certain protections a penetrating finish does not. I cannot see any great drawbacks to recoating the floors. However, if your friend plans to stay in the house many years (who does nowadays, anyway), the floor will probably last longer with a sealer because it will see fewer sandings; also those sandings are expensive. Hope this helps. John Quinn In Santa Rosa for the rest of this week ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158221 ---- From: Pghpensfan@a... Date: 2006-03-14 17:18:54 Subject: Out of lurk mode: Marples Brace opinions sought.. Esteemed Galoots, Was in lurk mode for some time, set to Digest mode, due to increased expectations from "The Man." (work) But glad to be back to the porch. I have recently stumbled apon an R. Marples Brass plated beech brace in so - so condition, the biggest problem being multiple cracks in the beech. The rosewood pad is beautiful (one tight check), all brass intact with nice patina. My question is this - I am inclined to fashion a new body for this brace from an exotic wood and utilize all the hardware and pad on the new body, effectively making a brace which is half new and half old. Any opinions as to whether this is a good idea or am I destroying history here? Will take 2 turns at the spittoons to make up for time lost....... Wm. West ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158222 ---- From: Gregory Isola Date: 2006-03-14 14:57:22 Subject: Dovetail aid Hey, all: This might be semi-old news to some, but I just got the latest LV catalog last night, and there's a new doohickey that might help some with their dovetail layout: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=53673&cat=51&ap=1 I'm a BIG fan of the right-angle clamp as dovetailing aid, as espoused by our very own bugbear: http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#dovetail_marking These new thingies might help in the very same way, and their alleged one-hand operation seems a plus when working with lightweight stock. If I hadn't picked up a pair of vintage Stanley corner clamps at a garage sale for cheap, I'd be interested... Greg Isola Alameda, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158223 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-14 17:09:35 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint This is the same technique, applied to a mallet. I knew I saw this somewhere, Google helped out. http://www.ilovewood.com/woodworker.htm Gary Gary Yarrow Two Herbs Workshop 819 Harvey Dunn St. Brookings, SD 57006-0896 www.twoherbs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158224 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-14 18:42:16 Subject: Old Wrenches Fellow Galoots, This website of old wrenches may be of interest to some. http://alloy-artifacts.home.comcast.net/ Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158225 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-14 18:44:27 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane Thanks to Paul's advice, I redid the image minus Exif data and now it behaves... http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3657 Gary On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:43 AM, paul womack wrote: > Gary Roberts wrote: >> Paul >> When I picked up one of these Marples planes a year or so ago, I >> too thought it was a drawer bottom plane. But alas, no. The Buck >> & Hickman catalog of 1953 lists this is a grooving plane, to be >> paired with a separate purchase tongue plane for the mundane >> tongue & groove joints. > > Dang. He's right, and my ignorance is revealed > (and remedied, of course :-). > > Here's a more subtle reference from 1935 Buck & Hickman: > http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/ > show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http:// > roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ > hickmanplanes2.jpg&target=tlx_new&title=Wood%20Planes > http://tinyurl.com/lwd4z > > Page 631 lists (under Grooving or Match planes) > option D, "Moving Tonguing and Grooving, with 3 pairs irons..." > which is clearly what we've got here. > > I've never seen the moving tonguing plane, but I've seen > a couple of the grooving variety. > > Correct names notwithstanding, does anyone (else!) think > that the grooving plane may well have been used > for drawer bottoms? > > BugBear ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158226 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-14 16:06:19 Subject: Old Dog - New Tricks I remember when I first stumbled up onto the porch wobbling on my shaky knees and blinking at the sights. There can't be a dozen of us left from that time, maybe a few more who read but we don't get to hear from much. I remember about 3/4 of the conversation then was over the fine points of this collectible or that one. Plenty of heated reparte' over anyone who ever dared to touch an old tool and what they ought to do to same if they did. Lots of guys expecting a Galoot to live with a defective tool forever if they had one, because original condition was the only thing that would ever count. Meanwhile the same voices all wanted to talk about the mint model they owned, and had paid top dollar for, but you better not ever try to improve yours. But at the same time, Pete Taran had just begun making/selling the It. An excitement undercurrent had already begun to grow. An undertow so strong I could feel it right off. It wasn't long before Paddy was issuing the second run of embroidered hats. I've still got a stealth cap, unworn in all this time. Noplace to wear it to where anyone would know what it was. In time, the MOA went to making , which was it guys? The detachable block plane handle or the lovely bevel gauge?? Anyway Patrick got involved. The first time I ever worked up my nerve to post. Must have been on the second day, I never was one to hold back. What do you suppose I did? I sent an attached file! There wasn't anything set up to automatically catch an attachment and I didn't know any better. Naturally, it was a homemade tool. It was pretty innocent, but it was a homebrewed tool. I didn't hear much otherwise, but I'd imagine it raised some eyebrows in certain circles. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/images/plain1.jpg Well, a lot of water has passed under the bridge now. In this time the making and repair, rebuild of tools has occupied the majority of my old tool hobby time. There have been a lot of projects. I like to plow new ground mostly. You all know what a poor attention span I have, there aren't many repeats. It was always just pix posted here and there and many of the stories posted here on the porch. Thanks to Jim I got to show some on GIC and always will. But noplace to keep them alltogether with the tales. I had been more interested in tools than computers you see and webpage building had been out of my comfort zone, to say the least. Now, finally, thanks to the kindness of Wiktor Kuc and the ever patient Kitty at my side, I've finally made a start at getting some pages up and revamping old ones. There are still old pages up and lord knows many of the pictures need desperately to be reshot (all the oldest ones were shot with my first digital camera which looked and performed like it should have come free in a Cracker Jack box). So, stop by and have a look, won't you? Long way to go yet, but man my head hurts!!! http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/ yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158227 ---- From: Ken Cutting Date: 2006-03-14 17:45:13 Subject: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks Scott, I was looking at the beautiful saw TOTES ;-) I just wanted to let you know, your metal carving skills are great - but reproducing US coins, even if they are OVERSIZED, is a crime... so, what is that giant dime made of? ;-) And that spalted apple wood... the MOST gorgeous piece of wood I've ever seen (I'm young yet though!) Thanks for Being One Heckofa Galoot! Ken __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158228 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-14 18:55:14 Subject: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks On Mar 14, 2006, at 4:06 PM, scott grandstaff wrote: > > So, stop by and have a look, won't you? Long way to go yet, but man > my head hurts!!! > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/ I came, I saw, I liked it! Nice work, Scottie! Don't stop now. We want to see the rest of it. > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158229 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-03-14 20:37:37 Subject: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks Scott G. points us to this, among other tidbit projects: > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/saws.htm And he was encouraged by Jimbono, who had earlier written: > I have been wanting to build a frame saw for some time now... (see http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=94891). Gentlemen, do I (sniff, sniff) smell a TUTORIAL or two in the works, on totes and saws of all shapes and sizes? cur - not that I'm begging, no, that wouldn't be... OK, I'm begging. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158230 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-14 22:50:16 Subject: Re: Old Dog... GG, Some how I really doubt that the old dog is out of new tricks. Scott, Some of those old pictures have served as inspiration to me personally and some are things that I still aspire to do one day. It is fitting that you put them up anew and inspire more ASD (Attention Span Deficient) galoots. I myself probably wouldn't do anything more than once if I could ever get it right the first time... 8^) Thanks I enjoyed looking at them all over again, and look forward to the additions and explanations... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158231 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-14 23:04:51 Subject: Greetings All! Greetings everybody! I have been lurking for awhile now, mostly in the archives and thought it would be good to step out onto the porch. A bit about me: I'm 45, I have three sons 17, 14 and 6 months (second litter). I work in my family’s electronics firm designing high voltage test equipment and machinery. But I have been interested in woodworking as long as I can remember. I followed the normal trajectory (tailed tools and little baby food jars screwed up underneath shelves holding hardware). until I was in my mid twenties. I lived then in an apartment in a creaky old Victorian house. The landlady lived directly below and was concerned about keeping things quiet. I started making furniture with hand tools in the living room of that apartment as quietly as possible. About that time I stumbled across a copy of the Woodcraft catalog and the lust for shiny hand tools began. I took a Timber Framing workshop at the Hancock Shaker Village, taught by Jack Sobon. He used hand tools exclusively and had quite a compliment of antique tools: froes, adzes, handsaws, broadaxes, slicks and firmer chisels. My enthusiasm for old tools was born that week. Seeing him work so (seemingly) effortlessly and quickly with these tools really made me realize that I didn't need Alternating Current directly involved in my woodworking. This was back in 1984 or so. While I was one of the first guys on my block with a home computer and have been on the Internet now for nearly ten years, somehow I missed the online woodworking community completely…until now. In the past year or two I did join several woodworking forums. While they have a bunch of great folks, there’s a bit too much “I can't get my Grizzly band saw to track strait†and “I want to build my girlfriend a Hepplewhite table out of MDF but the only tools I own are a cordless drill, a circular saw and a metric socket wrench set, how do I begin?†So, while I am definitely not elitist in my hand tool use, I was always on the lookout for a group that was a bit more focused on my particular woodworking interests. So I managed to find Y’all. Better late than never, I suppose. Even a blind squirrel digs up an acorn every now and then! My interests of late center around building (or compiling) a set of 18th century tools and building a joiners chest to house them, then using them to build reproduction period furniture. Let me apologize straight off if I have violated any etiquette, please be gentle with me if I rock on any tails (or dragging knuckles). Glad to be here! David Carroll ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158232 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-15 01:35:16 Subject: Re: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks Scott said.... I remember when I first stumbled up onto the porch wobbling on my shaky knees and blinking at the sights. There can't be a dozen of us left from that time, maybe a few more who read but we don't get to hear from much... ........................... Eh? What's that ya said the'a Scott? Don't heah to well any mo' 'n ma eyes are a'gettin dim lately. Ayuh. But, I kin still pull ma shak'n knees up ta tha Porch 'n set a spell. Ayuh. Great stuff there Scott... I'm still droolin'. Your tool making skills are primo bar none. Gary ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158233 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-15 09:27:01 Subject: Re: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks mimulus@p... wrote: > Scott G. points us to this, among other tidbit projects: > >>http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/saws.htm > > > And he was encouraged by Jimbono, who had earlier written: > >>I have been wanting to build a frame saw for some time now... > > > (see http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?mes- > sage_id=94891). > > Gentlemen, do I (sniff, sniff) smell a TUTORIAL or two in the works, > on totes and saws of all shapes and sizes? > > cur - not that I'm begging, no, that wouldn't be... OK, I'm begging. Frame saw tutorial you say? http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3 http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/resaw.php3 http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/woodworking/jigs.phtml#frame- saw (scroll down) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158234 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-14 18:18:04 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Tuesday 14 March 2006 01:25 pm, john wrote: > However, this should not be a problem for any professional (or probably > anyone), especially on the first refinish. Usually, you can just check > by removing a heating/cooling vent or by removing a bit of shoe mold and > baseboard. I have some floors in my current home which were installed in '69, and not as bad as floors I have in a previous '53 home, but not what I would call great condition. One A couple areas in a couple rooms are worn moderatly, certainly through the finish to bare wood, but overall most has some finish on it now. Would it be possible to just strip the old finish off and add new finish without sanding? > John Quinn > In Santa Rosa for the rest of this week Good excuse to visit KenG!;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158235 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-03-15 07:42:57 Subject: RE: Old Dog - New Tricks GGs, Ken> I just wanted to let you know, your metal carving Ken> skills are great - but reproducing US coins, even if Ken> they are OVERSIZED, is a crime... so, what is that Ken> giant dime made of? ;-) I believe the law states something along the lines that it's illegal if: - you create the "counterfeit" with the intent to deceive/defraud, and - you refuse to turn over your counterfeit if asked by The Gubment (Government officials, Jeff). Read more about it: Title 18, Part I, Chapter 25 (Counterfeiting and Forgery) of the U.S. Code, Sections 485, 489, and 492 deal with counterfeits of U.S. and world coins. I don't claim to really know anything about this. By coincidence, I heard this AM some guy just got busted for printing out $1B (billion, as in 1,000 million) bills, with like Grover Cleveland on them. One Treasury agent said this was clearly a joke but they're taking him to court anyway. What in the world would you DO with a $1B bill? "Uh, I'd like a 6-pack of Coors, and the change in small bills, please?" Steve, in Howell, NJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158236 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-15 07:45:15 Subject: new wood shop - what should I name it? Sorta OT Hi gang, I've been working on an idea for a coupla years, and its time to put it in motion. I'm retiring, and I'm changing my shop from a working shop to a teaching and kind of public access nonprofit. The idea is that I'll teach folks how to do woodworking, and folks that are competent will be able to use the shop (after they demonstrate competence to my satisfaction). I've got some good interest going with some individuals, and I've had a number of parents ask about being able to come in with their kids, so I'm pretty sure that I can make it fly if I can keep the costs under control. While I do have tailed stuff, most of my work is hand work, and for a variety of reasons that is what I'll be focusing on (reasons include liability, noise, dust, and all the other hassles that go with killing electrons). So I've started filling out all the NPO paper work, and I realized that I never thought about what to name this entity. Being more or less at a loss, I figured I'd throw this on the porch, and see what pops out..... This is a real NPO, and I'll writing some grants to attempt to support it (there will be a small fee associated with both taking classes and using shop time, but I need it to be self sufficient, and grants will help me keep the costs down). That means that the name has to be something that gets the idea across to the general public....... Anyway, if you have an idea, let me know. If you're in seacoast New Hampshire, drop by and chat! --JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158237 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-15 07:40:43 Subject: RE: Greetings All! David, Welcome to the Porch. Now, I ain't been here fer too long, but these here be good folks. Rarely will ya' get a real flame here although it is a passionate group. I have found the people on the Porch to be very knowledgeable, helpful, trustworthy and kind. They ain't shoved me off the end of the Porch yet fer all sorts of screw-ups and cantankerous opinions! Paul in Normal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158238 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-15 05:56:07 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Alan DuBoff wrote: >I have some floors in my current home which were installed in '69, and not as >bad as floors I have in a previous '53 home, but not what I would call great >condition. One A couple areas in a couple rooms are worn moderatly, certainly >through the finish to bare wood, but overall most has some finish on it now. > >Would it be possible to just strip the old finish off and add new finish >without sanding? > > Having done this once, I may be able to recall how it was done, and with some digging, find the info the original professional gave me. We had a spot of hardwood where someone left a rag soaked in Spot Shot. Ate the finish right off. I took about 6 boards, varying widths and lengths, scraped and sanded them down to bare wood. Masked em off with blue tape, put down a few coats of high gloss spray poly, finished off with a satin coat or two until the sheen matched. Couldn't see the patch when I was done. Sanding and scraping took about as long as waiting for the 6 coats to dry appropriately. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158239 ---- From: "Robert Bernstein" Date: 2006-03-15 06:56:59 Subject: Marsh miter vise I've just been steered to this site to see if you good folks could help me with a little problem. I bought a Marsh miter vise at a good price on eBay and the earnest and well intentioned but inexperienced seller managed to ship it so that the base of the vise, including the hinge, and the two saw guides dropped out of his package and are certainly, irretreivably lost somewhere between south Florida and northern Vermont. I'm disheartened by this--as I've participated inadvertently in an incident that has wrecked a tool that has been together for around a hundred years. Any spare parts available? I'd be in your debt if you have same, or leads to same. R. Bernstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158240 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-15 08:41:52 Subject: plow plane restoration Greetings All, A couple weeks ago, I presented a problem to the Porch concerning a wooden plow plane I am trying to restore. At some point, the fence of the plane was exposed to moisture which got behind the boxing. The moisture caused the boxing to bow, splitting out the dovetailed groove that contained it within the fence. I drove the boxing out of the fence and glued the split in the fence. But the boxwood strip was bowed and could not go back into the fence. I proposed to boil the boxwood, straighten it, and drive it back in. Although I got some encouragement to go ahead and try it, nobody seemed to have an opinion as to my chances of success. I went ahead with the plan and since there were some who wanted to know how well it worked, here is the report. I boiled the bowed boxwood strip in a pan of water for half an hour. When I pulled it out, I found that it had actually straightened out by itself. Since it had behaved so well, I was tempted to just let it dry unrestrained. But I thought better of it, and clamped it into a jig I had prepared to hold it straight while it cooled and dried. After about six hours of cooling and drying, I pulled it out of the jig. It was still straight. I drove it back into the groove in the fence and it was a nice fit. It did cause the spit in the fence to open up slightly, but not enough to interfere with operation or appearance. I should have clamped it to protect it while driving the boxing back in. I will probably try to re-glue the part that separated. All in all, it was a dramatic improvement and will allow me to put the plane back to work. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158241 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-15 12:58:59 Subject: What's it? GGs, Rummaging through some of the tools that I had picked up in past years, I ran across these hand tools. I'm at a loss as to what they could have been used for, as they are relatively fragile. In fact, the ivory handled one may have had the tip broken off. Would I be wrong if I thought they were some kind of engraving tools? See below: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3661 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3662 Thanks in advance, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158242 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-15 12:08:38 Subject: Re: new wood shop - what should I name it? Sorta OT Got a local cub scout pack or boy scout troop? They'll have some ideas for you and hopefully some leaders very excited about the resource!! cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin (who has 2 cub scout dens in on of our local packs and is an assistant scoutmaster in one of the troops..) On 3/15/06, James DuPrie wrote: > Hi gang, > > I've been working on an idea for a coupla years, and its time to put it in > motion. I'm retiring, and I'm changing my shop from a working shop to a > teaching and kind of public access nonprofit. The idea is that I'll teach > folks how to do woodworking, and folks that are competent will be able to > use the shop (after they demonstrate competence to my satisfaction). I've > got some good interest going with some individuals, and I've had a number of > parents ask about being able to come in with their kids, so I'm pretty sure > that I can make it fly if I can keep the costs under control. > > While I do have tailed stuff, most of my work is hand work, and for a > variety of reasons that is what I'll be focusing on (reasons include > liability, noise, dust, and all the other hassles that go with killing > electrons). So I've started filling out all the NPO paper work, and I > realized that I never thought about what to name this entity. Being more or > less at a loss, I figured I'd throw this on the porch, and see what pops > out..... > > This is a real NPO, and I'll writing some grants to attempt to support it > (there will be a small fee associated with both taking classes and using > shop time, but I need it to be self sufficient, and grants will help me keep > the costs down). That means that the name has to be something that gets the > idea across to the general public....... > > Anyway, if you have an idea, let me know. If you're in seacoast New > Hampshire, drop by and chat! > > --JD > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158243 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-03-15 18:12:05 Subject: Scott Started It. . . . A friday ramble, brought on by Scott's posting > I remember when I first stumbled up onto the porch wobbling on my > shaky knees and blinking at the sights. There can't be a dozen of us > left from that time, maybe a few more who read but we don't get to > hear from much. I remember about 3/4 of the conversation then was > over the fine points . . . . . Didn't that take me back to when the posts were long and full of discussion about how this or that tool was to be used, and we had recourse to ASCII art to put across diagrams .. Flea Market Monday's, and our virtual Porch simile to the fore, with its railings a bit battered where we used to test out sharpened blades, and the polished bit where we experimented with shellac and wax, and fadding and bodying up and all that stuff. Look, look - over there, under that overturned chair - one of the original spitoons, looking a bit dull now eh, no- one's had to any polishing for absolutely ages. Then another post by the same digest . . Luis very reasonably asked.. >While researching on some of the tools I plan to build, I came across >what seems to be the two names for the same tool. "Bow saw" and "Frame >saw". Is there a difference between the two? Is it just the same of >the frame? and that led back to the thread link (links?? eh. what? some new fangled way of avoiding writing. . ? ) a link that started with Adam Cherubini ( you still out there Adam ) and I found myself partly agreeing with someone's note, only to find it was me! ! Yup - a bow saw has a string which goes twang, a frame saw has a frame and only the blade will go twang. It was that thread that decided me to make one - and its only been 5 years I see, and I nearly have the components ready to go. 4 bits of wood for the frame, a couple of lengths of big bandsaw for the blade and a spare, and I probably have some metal bits for the blade tensioning if I rummage about. Must be time I got that job finished. Being a galoot by nature, then when my 'new' bench is done, I can use it to help make the saw. Sad thing about my new bench - the assembled frame is on board the boat, with the raw 4 inch thick beech boards for the top surfaces. I planed the main top flat, with a selection of the 'user kit' planes I have in the old carpenters chest which I assembled from spare and duplicate tools and placed in the main cabin beside the proto bench - did I ever send a note to my fellow galoots describing the unutterably pleasant sensation of working on board at the tail end of last summer, gentle breeze moving the shavings, faintest of rocking motions, sun streaming in, in the middle of nowhere ( junction of the Leicester arm and Grand Union canal ) a bottle of Newcastle Brown at hand to wash the dust away. No? well, maybe one day when the hidden, silent, wireless connected internet facility is at work on board and the evening sun is sinking behind Napton Hill, outlining its windmill, with its promise of applewood gears and millwrighting like it was meant to be. Where was I ? oh yes, sad thing about the bench - I've been laid off boatbuilding since last year, as I damaged my back and was forbidden to lift, drive, even to doss down on the boat. Lost the evening light by the time i was allowed back, and with no working lights on board, and no power installed I've been unable to play . errrm, work on the boat until now. Now that I'm back I discover that my 4 inch beech boards have twisted to an extent that they aren't going to be a bench top. I'm thinking some instant softwood 2x4 laminated to get the job back on schedule. Can't do much without a bench, specially since I killed my MkII workmate and only have a couple of sawhorses there. So the resaw frame saw will wait a little longer. and coming back on topic a bit, did anyone else follow up the old links to http://parbelle.ifrance.com/scieurs/scieurs.html and rediscover the photos of old sawyers? One point I hadn't previously paid attention to, which may help address a question in the old thread, is that one of the saws in the photos is evidently adjustable so that the blade can be moved left or right within its frame. This has the obvious benefit of permitting a frame width only slightly wider than the log to accommodate the usual series of parallel cuts, with no need to shift the sawyers positions, or compromise the stiffness of the frame by having it wider than needed, as would be the case with a central blade. Perhaps I should revisit the design for my frame saw. It would be a shame to rush into it and not get it right. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot for a decade or so IT 300 (Pete picked a nice round number for me) Tom Price - Skippy - I'd forgotten that. . . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158244 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-15 13:33:44 Subject: Re: What's it? At 12:58 PM 3/15/2006, Jack Kamishlian wrote: >GGs, > >Rummaging through some of the tools that I had picked up in past >years, I ran across these hand tools. I'm at a loss as to what they >could have been used for, as they are relatively fragile. In fact, >the ivory handled one may have had the tip broken off. Would I be >wrong if I thought they were some kind of engraving tools? See below: > >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id The one on the far left was probably a dental tool of some kind, shame the tip is missing as they are worth some dinero, next is a brad awl that looks like it got converted to leather awl duty and the other 3 are leather awls. Tony (where it snowed this AM ARRGGGGGGGHHHHH) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158245 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-03-15 14:03:43 Subject: RE: What's it? > > Rummaging through some of the tools that I had picked up in > past years, I ran across these hand tools. I'm at a loss as > to what they could have been used for, as they are relatively > fragile. In fact, the ivory handled one may have had the tip > broken off. Would I be wrong if I thought they were some > kind of engraving tools? Yes, you would, IMHO. Not sure what the ivory handled one is, almost looks like a small screwdriver, but the others seem to fit the standard OT pattern: If you don't know what it is, it's a leatherworking tool. They look like awls for piercing holes for stitching. Jim Foster Minnesnowta, where we're gonna get dumped on again, from what I heard .... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158246 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-15 03:33:22 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Wednesday 15 March 2006 05:56 am, Kirk Eppler wrote: > Having done this once, I may be able to recall how it was done, and with > some digging, find the info the original professional gave me. We had a > spot of hardwood where someone left a rag soaked in Spot Shot. Ate the > finish right off. I took about 6 boards, varying widths and lengths, > scraped and sanded them down to bare wood. Masked em off with blue > tape, put down a few coats of high gloss spray poly, finished off with a > satin coat or two until the sheen matched. Couldn't see the patch when > I was done. Sanding and scraping took about as long as waiting for the > 6 coats to dry appropriately. Yes, this sounds like what I would like to do with them, but wouldn't mind refinishing the entire floor. Can that be done without sanding the entire floor? Either by stripping or applying over the top? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158247 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-15 16:00:28 Subject: New Bench I started planing the oak for the legs of my new bench today. My current bench isn't really suited for planing. It is very small and I spend too much time chasing it around the shop since planing anything harder than pine moves the bench all over the place. My new bench will be heavier so hopefully I won't be chasing it around. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158248 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-15 13:38:04 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Alan DuBoff wrote: > >Yes, this sounds like what I would like to do with them, but wouldn't mind >refinishing the entire floor. Can that be done without sanding the entire >floor? Either by stripping or applying over the top? > > > I wouldn't try the whole floor without stripping or sanding, unless your top coat is in perfect shape. Then I'd call a pro in anyway. I wouldn't try to spray that large an area, or even apply with a roller. They (the guy who did or redid mine) actually recommend recoating every few years, before it gets worn down, so you don't have to sand. -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158249 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-15 18:35:02 Subject: Peculiar Rasp I dropped into a local shop the other day and came across two tools that appear to be rasps. They have wood handles, long metal shafts and an oval business end. They overall, the shape is similar to a large spoon with the rasp teeth on the bottom side of the spoon. They look like they would be ideal for roughing out bowls. Without the benefit of photos, do these tools seem familiar to anyone on the porch? The shop owner was asking $5.00 each. Jim Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158250 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-15 14:45:46 Subject: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks Scott, Kick-@s... site there, well done! You make me feel like everything I've done so far has been out of plyw**d using a dull chainsaw.. Adriaan, much humbled. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158251 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-15 16:56:50 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Alan--I refinished a large room of 3/4 inch wide oak strips. I had water damage in one corner of the room and I couldn't get a decent match without taking it down to bare wood with a monster of a tailed apprentice called a floor sander. It was like a giant belt sander. It gouged if you stopped for even a second and then later, of course, you had to straighten it out by hand. Today I am not sure I'd do it the same way again, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. In the schools where I worked when it came time to re-finish a gymnasium floor, which is maple, they used a synthetic screen on a floor polisher to get the old finish flat and scuffed. Then they had to chemically strip any wax from the floor before applying the new finish. This was about a 3 stage process, time-consuming, but not that difficult. You can rent the equipment as well as get the expertise at the same time. This may or may not be helpful, but I think getting any wax up is important for the finish to adhere. One thing about it, you can give something a try and if you don't like the results the worst that happens is that you start over. Few things you do can't be undone! Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Alan DuBoff > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:33 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Oak Floor Ideas Sought > > On Wednesday 15 March 2006 05:56 am, Kirk Eppler wrote: > > Having done this once, I may be able to recall how it was done, and with > > some digging, find the info the original professional gave me. We had a > > spot of hardwood where someone left a rag soaked in Spot Shot. Ate the > > finish right off. I took about 6 boards, varying widths and lengths, > > scraped and sanded them down to bare wood. Masked em off with blue > > tape, put down a few coats of high gloss spray poly, finished off with a > > satin coat or two until the sheen matched. Couldn't see the patch when > > I was done. Sanding and scraping took about as long as waiting for the > > 6 coats to dry appropriately. > > Yes, this sounds like what I would like to do with them, but wouldn't mind > refinishing the entire floor. Can that be done without sanding the entire > floor? Either by stripping or applying over the top? > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158252 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-03-15 17:58:43 Subject: RE: Peculiar Rasp Leatherworking tools of course. B^) Well, maybe, kinda. Sounds like they may have been shoemaker's peg rasps. Did they look like this at all: http://www.mot.be/cgi-bin/collections.cgi?c=ID-DOC&i=481&l=en > > > I dropped into a local shop the other day and came across two > tools that appear to be rasps. They have wood handles, long > metal shafts and an oval business end. They overall, the > shape is similar to a large spoon with the rasp teeth on the > bottom side of the spoon. They look like they would be ideal > for roughing out bowls. > > Without the benefit of photos, do these tools seem familiar > to anyone on the porch? The shop owner was asking $5.00 each. > > Jim > Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158253 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-15 18:03:06 Subject: Re: Peculiar Rasp At 05:35 PM 3/15/2006, Jim McVicar wrote: >I dropped into a local shop the other day and came across two tools that >appear to be rasps. They have wood handles, long metal shafts and an oval >business end. They overall, the shape is similar to a large spoon with the >rasp teeth on the bottom side of the spoon. They look like they would be >ideal for roughing out bowls. Rule 1. When in doubt call it a leather tool! Those are cobblers or bootmaker's peg floats. They were used for rasping down the tops of the wooden shoe pegs used to hold the heels on shoes and boots. >Without the benefit of photos, do these tools seem familiar to anyone on the >porch? Yep I see them a few times a year. >The shop owner was asking $5.00 each. I'd pay it in a 1/2 a heart beat. I have had reasonably good luck bringing these back from the dead so to speak. Wm Horn and Son were one of the more prolific maker's of these kinds of tools, it would be stamped about 1/2 way down the shaft. They used a sun figure trademark. Here is a picture of one http://oldetoolshop.com/forsale/jan/lt0109.jpg Hand forged ones in good shape are a find as well. And DON"T let anyone snow ya about them being farriers horse teeth floats. Those have much shorter shafts and finer teeth on the rasp end. Tony ( a leather tool here, a leather tool there..seems to be the season for them on all fronts) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158254 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-15 19:37:33 Subject: Leather Rasp Okay, so the spoon-shaped rasp is a bootmaker's peg float. Thanks for the quick replies. My next question is obvious. Can I use them on wood? I really don't have any plans in the near future for leather work. Could I use them as a rasp or scraper for bowls (with any modifications)? These particular floats are pretty hefty, forged tools. Thanks, Jim Saint John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158255 ---- From: wizofoz@i... Date: 2006-03-16 08:03:25 Subject: Re: Scott Started It. . . . Quoting Richard.Wilson@s...: > A friday ramble, brought on by Scott's posting > > > I remember when I first stumbled up onto the porch wobbling on my > >shaky knees and blinking at the sights. There can't be a dozen of us > >left from that time, maybe a few more who read but we don't get to hear > >from much. > > I remember about 3/4 of the conversation then was over the fine > >points . . . . . > > > Didn't that take me back to when the posts were long and full of discussion > about how this or that tool was to be used, and we had recourse to ASCII > art to put across diagrams .. Flea Market Monday's, and our virtual Porch > simile to the fore, with its railings a bit battered where we used to test > out sharpened blades, and the polished bit where we experimented with > shellac and wax, and fadding and bodying up and all that stuff. > Look, look - over there, under that overturned chair - one of the original > spitoons, looking a bit dull now eh, no-one's had to any polishing for > absolutely ages. well mine is well polished, that's for sure! Been lurking mostly, too busy at work at the moment. Need to get back to the ga^H^Hworkshop soon and finish off a few half-projects. Haven't even been able to attend the local old tools club meetings and that's a major offence! On the good side: local flea markets now carry old tools at most events. Must talk to the bank manager, errrm.... wife, that's it, and see if I can spare some cash! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158256 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-15 19:24:44 Subject: Re: New Bench I have the same problem with the bench I use most. It has a lower shelf, however, and I have a couple bags of concrete that got wet before I got around to using them. Well, one day I made the wild intuitive leap: good benches are heavy because the wood is heavy, but does the weight have to be the wood? It ain't pretty, but it'll do until I can make a real bench. But maybe I'm the only one who had a bag of concrete go bad on me . . . . Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA where the ground is white again! ----- Original Message ----- >I started planing the oak for the legs of my new bench today. My current >bench isn't really suited for planing. It is very small and I spend too >much time chasing it around the shop since planing anything harder than >pine moves the bench all over the place. My new bench will be heavier so >hopefully I won't be chasing it around. > > Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158257 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-15 18:37:48 Subject: Ornate Router Galooti, I don't know who the high bidder ($500.00) was for this router plane at the MJD auction last weekend. But I would like to say that if it was someone who is giving it to me for my birthday, they really need to get it in the mail fast. I don't know what the record price is for a router plane, but this must be at least close. It certainly was a nice looking piece of work. http://www.mjdtools.com/auction/graphics/a194676.htm Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158258 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-15 16:42:44 Subject: Re: New Bench On 15 Mar 2006 at 19:24, Gary K wrote: ~~~~~~~~~~~~Slllicccceeeeee~~~~~~~~~~~ > It ain't pretty, but it'll do until I can make a > real bench. But maybe I'm the only one who > had a bag of concrete go bad on me . . . . > Ya, right! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158259 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-15 19:52:21 Subject: Re: New Bench Gary has his method for adding stablity to his bench - > I have the same problem with the bench I use > most. It has a lower shelf, however, and I have > a couple bags of concrete that got wet before > I got around to using them. Well, one day I made > the wild intuitive leap: good benches are heavy > because the wood is heavy, but does the weight > have to be the wood? My bench weighed 150-175 pounds and would move under heavy planing. One day I put about 90 lbs of leftover brick pavers on it and covered them with another panel. I still have a shelf and the bench doesn't move. Like Gary says - the weight doesn't have to be wood. Dennis Heyza Macomb, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158260 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-15 17:06:25 Subject: Re: Old Dog - New Tricks You guys have graced me with too much private email to answer individually. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for the kind words and encouragement. It means a lot to me. This old porch means a lot. That means you. yours, Scott http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/ -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158261 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-15 21:07:01 Subject: Re: New Bench >My bench weighed 150-175 pounds and would move under heavy planing. One day >I put about 90 lbs of leftover brick pavers on it and covered them with >another panel. I still have a shelf and the bench doesn't move. I have a small bench I bought years ago made by Sjobergs. Very handy with its shoulder and tail vises. But it is very light. I used to store tools in the cabinet and drawers but they rattled and rolled too much when the bench shook under planing. Now I store chains, old sash weights, scrap metal...anything heavy there. It has helped considerably. Sooner or later I'll have to build a proper heavy bench... David C ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158262 ---- From: "Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze" Date: 2006-03-15 22:14:50 Subject: Making a bench O, wise galoots, I got a call from SWMBO at work this afternoon that they were cutting down a white oak tree in front of GITettes school and could I use some of the wood to make something for the school? I of course could not turn down free wood, so I said I would look and see what I could use, thinking maybe I could make something small for the front office (a nice plaque or maybe one of those tables out of a slab ala Sam Maloof). When I got home, somehow it had morphed into the principal telling the school staff to save the 2 longest pieces so I could make some benches. As usual, I have multiple questions that I know the assembled galootdom can answer: #1 - I have gotten the 2 pieces home and stacked in front of the shop, and am getting ready to sharpen the tools I will need but had never sharpened before. Is there a web site on how to sharpen adzes? It is just a plain adze (not a shipwrights, or even polled), but it is the only thing I have to flatten the bench top. I got a Granfors axe sharpening stone for Christmas, would that work? I am also hoping one of these days to drag the FIL's foot powered wheel home, but that may not be until after Easter, so it will haveto be with a hand crank grinder or files and stones. #2 - How easy is it to split White Oak? This is green, having been cut this morning, so I would guess it would be fairly easy with some wedges. Is there anything I should look out for during the process? #3 - if this is going to be outside, should I leave the bark on the the bottom of the slabe, or should it come off? As always, thanks to all of the galloots out there able to help. Gary Who is reviewing several St. Roy tapes on splitting and adze use ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158263 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-15 23:34:39 Subject: Re: What's it? Jack, Some of them look like leather sewing awls. Cheers, john -----Original Message----- From: Jack Kamishlian To: oldtools Sent: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:58:59 -0500 Subject: [OldTools] What's it? GGs, Rummaging through some of the tools that I had picked up in past years, I ran across these hand tools. I'm at a loss as to what they could have been used for, as they are relatively fragile. In fact, the ivory handled one may have had the tip broken off. Would I be wrong if I thought they were some kind of engraving tools? See below: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3661 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3662 Thanks in advance, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158264 ---- From: MJD Date: 2006-03-15 22:33:26 Subject: Re: Making a bench Hi Gary, et. al., I'm not zactly wise, but I have a bit of experience. Make a bunch of gluts. You'll need 2 or 3 Steel wedges to leapfrog, and gluts to hold the split open. Debark the log, and score the log with an unmentionable tool of the devil along about where the split should run. Start the wedges at one end and work down the length of the log. I use wedges in the ends to keep the halves even. You'll need to work slow and steady. Eyeball the log and be sure the grain is nearly straight. If the tree has a twist, so will your slab. No way around this. IIRC, the first St. Roy book details the process nicely. We did this at the shaving horse confab a couple of years back. Be sure you have tools and manpower to move the slabs after splitting. DAMHIKT. Mike Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze wrote: > O, wise galoots, > > > #2 - How easy is it to split White Oak? This is green, having been cut > this morning, so I would guess it would be fairly easy with some > wedges. Is there anything I should look out for during the process? > > #3 - if this is going to be outside, should I leave the bark on the > the bottom of the slabe, or should it come off? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158265 ---- From: "Anthony Seo" Date: 2006-03-15 23:53:06 Subject: Re: Leather Rasp >Okay, so the spoon-shaped rasp is a bootmaker's peg float. Thanks for the >quick replies. Notta problem >My next question is obvious. Can I use them on wood? I really don't > have any plans in the near future for leather work. Could I use them > as a rasp or scraper for bowls (with any modifications)? Well that is what they were made for. But as far as modifications go, well let's look at it from this point of view. You are talking $10 Cdn (which even at today's inflated exchange rate is still about $8.00 US). I can sell Horn's in decent shape for $25 to $35 depending on who is awake this week Good early hand forged ones, $35 to $45. And those ain't exactly growing on trees. In any or all cases, they are a good investment. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158266 ---- From: "travis anderson-bond" Date: 2006-03-16 16:10:15 Subject: Re: new wood shop - what should I name it? Sorta OT > teaching and kind of public access nonprofit. The idea is that I'll teach > folks how to do woodworking, and folks that are competent will be able to > use the shop (after they demonstrate competence to my satisfaction). I've That's a **really** great idea!!! Might be getting some field trips from local middle schools and high schools -- and maybe host som summer programs. It seems funny for me to say this, as an aspiring Galoot (and with a Grandpa who does a **lot** of lathe work!), but when I took woodshop in Middle School (a required rotation -- one quarter each of cooking, sewing, woodshop, art) -- I was indifferent; couldn't think of anything to build!!! > realized that I never thought about what to name this entity. Being more or > less at a loss, I figured I'd throw this on the porch, and see what pops > out..... [snipped] > the costs down). That means that the name has to be something that gets the > idea across to the general public....... The e-mail subject line says it all: "The Old Tools Wood Shop". (Or "Olde Tools WoodShoppe" if ye want t'be olde-timey about it...) If you're bobbing for public monies, making an explicit nod to Americanna history -- e.g. "The Heritage Handtools Workshoppe" -- couldn't hurt. ;) Something that (1) expressly mentions you'll be using OldTools, thus setting it apart from miscellaneous vocational programs; and (2) indicates you'll be making and **building** things, not just selling used tools (e.g. "Woodshop" rather than just "shop", which is ambiguously "retail"). Good luck! (Post some pics, when all is underway?) :) --Travis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158267 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-16 09:32:39 Subject: Re: New Bench Gary K wrote: > I have the same problem with the bench I use > most. It has a lower shelf, however, and I have > a couple bags of concrete that got wet before > I got around to using them. Well, one day I made > the wild intuitive leap: good benches are heavy > because the wood is heavy, but does the weight > have to be the wood? I have been attempting to protest the use of premium hardwood as a source of nuttin' but inertial mass for years. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158268 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-16 09:34:35 Subject: Re: Ornate Router dilloworks@s... wrote: > Galooti, > > I don't know who the high bidder ($500.00) was for this router plane at > the MJD auction last weekend. But I would like to say that if it was > someone who is giving it to me for my birthday, they really need to get > it in the mail fast. > > I don't know what the record price is for a router plane, but this must > be at least close. It certainly was a nice looking piece of work. > > http://www.mjdtools.com/auction/graphics/a194676.htm Hmm. I wonder if we could persuade Christopher Laarman to make a small router? http://home.pacifier.com/~davewe/finger_planes.htm BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158269 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-16 09:41:06 Subject: Re: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes Thomas Conroy wrote: > John Edwards raised the question of what wooden rabbet planes were > meant for. I can't speak to that directly, but I can say what I have > found them to be indispensible for. Though its maybe a little arcane. . . . > > If you aren't into making binders' presses?.... well.... I would say > that they would do as good a job for panel raising as a proper panel > raiser, just a bit more fuss in setting fences to run against and care > not to go to deep. Yeah; http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2753 (the 2 centre panels on the door) http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cs- wingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=152919&submit_thread=1#message They are also used as the common bulk-waste-remover when making custom mouldings in old texts. http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_i- d=91376#message BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158270 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-16 20:15:20 Subject: Three whatsits Esteemed Galoots, Being a new Galoot Recruit is a frustrating thing. I see these tools out there, and then search and search, but sometimes just cannot find any reference to them, to give an indication of what the heck they are. Here's something I watched go past today: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6260826965 There were two sets of them. They appear to be square inside, and would probably go into a brace. The only idea I have had so far is that perhaps they fit over the end of a square rail or rung, and can rotate it, but to what purpose? They look a little like those dodads that make a round tenon, but these don't have any cutting edges. Any idea what they are called, and what they are used for? Thanks very much Clearly I need to expand my library a little more, but deciding between more tools and more books is a tough call :-) -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158271 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-16 21:41:42 Subject: Re: Three whatsits Hi Peter R, Yeah, I wondered what these were too. Was going to bid but really don't need any more unknown and probably useless stuff. Checked all my McPhersons (aussie) catalogues (catalogs to eastern Pacific and beyond in US) and no reference!!!! Obviously designed to go in a brace but..........?????? Peter B, also in Oz Peter Robinson wrote: > Esteemed Galoots, > > Being a new Galoot Recruit is a frustrating thing. I see these tools > out there, and then search and search, but sometimes just cannot find > any reference to them, to give an indication of what the heck they are. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158272 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-16 02:45:51 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Wednesday 15 March 2006 02:56 pm, paul schobernd wrote: > Alan--I refinished a large room of 3/4 inch wide oak strips. I had water > damage in one corner of the room and I couldn't get a decent match without > taking it down to bare wood with a monster of a tailed apprentice called a > floor sander. Before these tailed apprentices showed up on the scene, how did folks put a finish on the hardwood floors? I guess you get down on the floor with a sanding block and go at it... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158273 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-16 11:39:01 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Wednesday 15 March 2006 02:56 pm, paul schobernd wrote: > >>Alan--I refinished a large room of 3/4 inch wide oak strips. I had water >>damage in one corner of the room and I couldn't get a decent match without >>taking it down to bare wood with a monster of a tailed apprentice called a >>floor sander. > > > Before these tailed apprentices showed up on the scene, how did folks put a > finish on the hardwood floors? I guess you get down on the floor with a > sanding block and go at it... I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious way to finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, plank by plank, on a bench. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158274 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-16 05:51:04 Subject: Re: Three Whats its GG, Peter R. wrote Esteemed Galoots, > > Being a new Galoot Recruit is a frustrating thing. I see these tools > out there, and then search and search, but sometimes just cannot find > any reference to them, to give an indication of what the heck they are. Could these be brace driven wrenches for square nuts? Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158275 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-16 07:16:06 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought How about this? http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/caillebotte/raboteurs/scrapers.jpg I do have a serious question for the oak strip flooring experts out there. We have a 75+ year-old house and the most common floor problem we have is the top tongue on the groove side of the strip has come off, leaving long gouges in the floor. Some of these are a little splintery, but for the most part they're pretty worn (don't know how long ago it all happened.) Anyway, I was wondering if there is something specific to fill this sort of thing, or if epoxy is my best bet. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood SCRAPINGS on the floor! Wood SCRAPINGS on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of paul womack I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious way to finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, plank by plank, on a bench. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158276 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-16 05:28:17 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought paul womack wrote: > > I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious > way to finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, > plank by plank, on a bench. > > Oh Paul, you hae failed us so. Obviously, the #74 http://supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm#num74 All galoots have one, right? -- Kirk Eppler, in Half Moon Bay, who knows why pro's use sanders on this. Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158277 ---- From: Ken Cutting Date: 2006-03-16 05:58:20 Subject: Re: Making a bench So Gary, If you'd said you turned down free wood maybe you'd have somethin' to report here - and a handy whoopin' coming! ;-) Now that you did the right thing, oak is some of the best splitting wood there is - as long as you follow the directions already given. I wouldn't (and I didn't) use an adze unless your hoping for blood - refer to the last messages of this thread... http://tinyurl.com/he82f You ought to be able to use that Gransford ax to hew short of the line then you could scrub - but hew down close to that line - DAMHIKT. And although axes can be dangerous too, I still have 10 toes. Have fun! I know I did! Ken Cutting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158278 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-16 09:03:27 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought I don't think that refinishing was a problem when the finish was oil and wax - patch or otherwise repair the problem area and oil and wax. Then wax and buff. Then wax and buff. Then wax and buff. Then wax and buff. Then oil. Then wax and buff. Then wax and buff. Then wax and buff. Then... Jim > > I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious way to > finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, plank by plank, on a bench. > > BugBear > -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158279 ---- From: Hunter.COX@i... Date: 2006-03-16 09:06:54 Subject: Re: Three whatsits peter writes: Here's something I watched go past today: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6260826965 *************** definately driver for square headed nuts and bolts to fit a brace. got a couple myself and had the opportunity to use one just recently, you see those square headed bolts on lots of old stuff, my workbench has a few, of course I guess a socket may have done the trick but it was nice to have the right tool for the job. hunter This message and all attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Neither Degremont Group nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158280 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-16 09:23:20 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Kirk Eppler wrote: > > paul womack wrote: > >> >> I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious >> way to finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, >> plank by plank, on a bench. >> >> > > > Oh Paul, you hae failed us so. Obviously, the #74 > > http://supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm#num74 > > All galoots have one, right? > Henry Mercier references a monster Razee handled woodie, measuring 34 3/4", in Ancient Carpenter' Tools, as The Floor Plane. See Fig. #102 in the chapter on Tools For Surfacing, Chopping and Paring. This is just the tool to build strong muscles on Apprentices and pack animals. :) Tim Contemplating a nose mitten for the sub-freezing nightly temps in NJ this week. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158281 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-16 08:22:20 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Robert Weber > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:16 AM > To: 'paul womack'; 'Alan DuBoff' > Cc: 'paul schobernd'; oldtools@r... > Subject: RE: [OldTools] Oak Floor Ideas Sought > > This appears to me to be a picture of French prisoners on Devil's Island and the guard > with a firearm is just out of the picture! Of course it is early in the > day and I am caffeine deficient so it may just be a hallucinatory thing. > Scraping the floor by hand could also be a picture of hell for people with > bad knees and backs! I am always impressed with old ways of doing things, > but I have my limits when it comes to implementation! I have no idea what > to do with the splintery floor. That is a new problem for me. Paul in > Normal > > How about this? > > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/caillebotte/raboteurs/scrapers.jpg > > I do have a serious question for the oak strip flooring experts out there. > We have a 75+ year-old house and the most common floor problem we have is > the top tongue on the groove side of the strip has come off, leaving long > gouges in the floor. Some of these are a little splintery, but for the > most part they're pretty worn (don't know how long ago it all happened.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158282 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-16 09:32:34 Subject: RE: New Bench I have a similar bench and used the same process I used to stabilize my first lathe - reinforce the base. Take a sheet of plywood and bolt it to the legs effectively closing in 3 sides. Closing in the front would make it more stable, but then the front of the bench would be behind the legs and I didn't want that. Of course could have put the board on the inside of the front legs, but didn't think of that until the other sides were closed in. I've also considered a retractable pipe that could be extended to a wall joist for extraordinarily rigorous activity on the bench, but haven't had the need yet. By the way, bought (gasp! But I wanted the vises with little effort) a workbench top for the kids (girls 6&7) and attached it to the back of this bench with a cleat and C-clamps, the front is supported by free-standing legs. Plenty stable for them to saw, plane, and chisel, height adjustable (just raise the cleat) as they grow, and easy to remove when it's in my way. Jim > > I have a small bench I bought years ago made by Sjobergs. > Very handy with its shoulder and tail vises. But it is very > light. I used to store tools in the cabinet and drawers but > they rattled and rolled too much when the bench shook under > planing. Now I > store chains, > old sash weights, scrap metal...anything heavy there. It has > helped considerably. > > Sooner or later I'll have to build a proper heavy bench... > > David C > -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158283 ---- From: Sean Date: 2006-03-16 06:37:52 Subject: Palatable Palatte Pallet ? Reagardless of how it's spelt, I thought some might find this interesting: http://tinyurl.com/pfhcj In short, a pallet guitar __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158284 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-16 09:41:05 Subject: (Gasp!) Completed Something... Esteemed Galoots, Part of being a Galoot is completing a project in wood every once in a while. Now I'm not talking every other week, or even every other year. Haven't completed that piece for SWMBO yet? How old are you? Relax, you've got plenty of time. So I figure I oughta be good on projects for SWMBO for a decade or so. I (almost) finished the coffee table that she asked me to make back when I first got into handtools. This is the project that more or less got me into handtools. I bought and made many a tool in the name of this coffee table. "Honey, I need to buy this blurfl to use on the coffee table." I started on this project by purchasing about 50 BF of rough curly maple and cherry at a little mom 'n' pop sawmill in Harford, NY. That's near Ithaca (PRINY, Tom), the home of the list. The wood sat in my shop in Ithaca to "acclimate" for about 18 months. Then my fiance (as she was at the time) and I moved to Vermont (next time I move I'm going to do so without moving lumber). We got married and started new jobs. Been working on the house like crazy since we moved in last spring. Haven't been able to get the shop time that I wanted, but did manage to get some in this winter. Here's the result: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3663 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3664 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3665 The top is curly soft maple, the legs are soft maple, everything else is cherry. Joints are drawbored M&T. I drowned the poor thing in BLO and then finished with Rev Ron's finest garnet candy coating, padded by hand. It's pretty simple, as you can see, but was a great exercise in basic joints and proportion. I don't really like how the curly top has conspicuous joints, but I guess that's why folks try to bookmatch figured wood. The most important thing is that SWMBO likes it. Maybe more importantly for me, she now thinks that a project takes about five years to complete. She's right. -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158285 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-16 09:05:29 Subject: Re: Three whatsits I know I am getting old when I realize how many folks on the list are too young to remember when we used square nuts on bolts - and used square nut drivers to tighten them. I'll bet there are bunch on the list that don't even remember when the "facilities" (loo, Jeff) used to be out at the end of the clothes line, instead of in the house. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Robinson" > > Here's something I watched go past today: > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item > > There were two sets of them. They appear to be square inside, and > would probably go into a brace. The only idea I have had so far is > that perhaps they fit over the end of a square rail or rung, and can > rotate it, but to what purpose? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158286 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-16 10:24:50 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Fill it with wood :-) the list appropriate recommendations would be plough plane or stair saw, followed by router plane, then glue in a strip of wood, followed by plane/scrape to match floor level. you could use a ****tric powered router and a temp. fence (held to the adjacent floor with double sided tape or hot glue) to route out the groove to a uniform depth also. tim raleigh NC (where the weather jockeys are predicting freezing rain for monday?) "Robert Weber" Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/16/2006 08:16 AM Please respond to raweber@m... To "'paul womack'" , "'Alan DuBoff'" cc "'paul schobernd'" , oldtools@r... Subject RE: [OldTools] Oak Floor Ideas Sought How about this? http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/caillebotte/raboteurs/scrapers.jpg I do have a serious question for the oak strip flooring experts out there. We have a 75+ year-old house and the most common floor problem we have is the top tongue on the groove side of the strip has come off, leaving long gouges in the floor. Some of these are a little splintery, but for the most part they're pretty worn (don't know how long ago it all happened.) Anyway, I was wondering if there is something specific to fill this sort of thing, or if epoxy is my best bet. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood SCRAPINGS on the floor! Wood SCRAPINGS on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of paul womack I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious way to finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, plank by plank, on a bench. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158287 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-16 12:20:51 Subject: Re: Leather Rasp Hi Jim, Thanks for the background. I do have a Rockwell Beaver lathe and use it for bowls. You're right, it's one of the greatest woodworking experiences. I received a new set of chisels for Christmas and can't wait to use them (the weather is almost warm enough). Your answer to whether the leather tool will work on wood at least lets me know that it may come in handy on other concave projects, although I'm not sure what it would be but at least I'll have the tool if the need arises. I have many such tools that, someday, will come in handy for something. Maybe. I hope. Who knows. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158288 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-16 11:38:53 Subject: Re: Three whatsits At 10:05 AM 3/16/2006, dilloworks@s... wrote: >I know I am getting old when I realize how many folks on the list >are too young to remember when we used square nuts on bolts - and >used square nut drivers to tighten them. Yeah a lot of folks will call tag them as buggy wrenches around here. > I'll bet there are bunch on the list that don't even remember when > the "facilities" (loo, Jeff) used to be out at the end of the > clothes line, instead of in the house. The old three bedrooms and a path......... >----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Robinson" >> >>Here's something I watched go past today: >>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item Just an editorial note, that I'm kinda surprised at the price they went for...guess it's time to pile dive here cause I know's I got's a few.........someplace....somewhere Tony (where the sun is shining and the wind has slowed...) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158289 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-16 09:04:10 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought To take this thread back to OldTools and answer a previous question take a look at these: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1420 and http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1425 Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158290 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-16 09:12:35 Subject: Re: New Bench Gary K wrote: > It has a lower shelf, however, and I have a couple bags of concrete > that got wet before I got around to using them. Well, one day I made > the wild intuitive leap: good benches are heavy because the wood is > heavy, but does the weight have to be the wood? My buddy has a Sjoberg bench, kinda light, so he put the sink cutouts from his granite countertop under there until he gets a cabinet built. Nice and solid Me, I have all my exotic hardwood stored under my Lee Valley bench until I get my cabinet built. -- Kirk Eppler waiting for the rain in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158291 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-16 11:17:06 Subject: RE: Three whatsits Tony and GGs--Been down than that path many times. Nothing worse than a new outhouse seat. They were much more comfortable after a couple generations of bums have polished off the rough edges. In my case that sweet-smelling building housed the bag of laying mash. If you were lucky and reached down to the bottom of the bag, you would find one of Grandpa's pints of Bardenheiers sp? Ruby Port Wine--35 cents a pint. Grandma never knew it was there, but some of us younguns did. You had to be careful not to drink it all and to bury it again properly. Square nuts have the advantage that when you have a snug fitting wrench there is little possibility for the wrench to slip. I have never seen a rounded-over square nut as you do with hex nuts. Those wrenches in question would have fit very snugly and you could, of course, put some heavy-duty torque on that with a brace. Got some of those buried in the piles in my shop as well. May have to send them to Australia at those prices! Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Anthony Seo > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:39 AM > To: dilloworks@s...; Oldtools > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Three whatsits > > At 10:05 AM 3/16/2006, dilloworks@s... wrote: > > >I know I am getting old when I realize how many folks on the list > >are too young to remember when we used square nuts on bolts - and > >used square nut drivers to tighten them. > > Yeah a lot of folks will call tag them as buggy wrenches around here. > > > I'll bet there are bunch on the list that don't even remember when > > the "facilities" (loo, Jeff) used to be out at the end of the > > clothes line, instead of in the house. > > The old three bedrooms and a path......... > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Robinson" > >> > >>Here's something I watched go past today: > >>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item > > Just an editorial note, that I'm kinda surprised at the price they > went for...guess it's time to pile dive here cause I know's I got's a > few.........someplace....somewhere > > Tony (where the sun is shining and the wind has slowed...) > > > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158292 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-16 09:35:48 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought I thought the #12 scraper plane and all it's cousins (including the fractions) were invented for refinishing floors? I once used a #80 and some hand card scraping on a floor. Did it a patch at a time. Took less than a week. I thought it looked spectacular when finished and so did everybody else, but then I tend to look for the good and not the bad. I'm sure "Inspector Defect" would been dissatisfied beyond belief if I'd done it to his floor. My advice? Make sure everyone who owns the project actually rolls up their sleeves and gets involved in the hard labor. Anyone standing around with nothing else to do ends up inspecting instead of appreciating, most times. yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158293 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-16 13:05:52 Subject: Changing Times It's tobacco auction time in Southern Maryland. Big tobacco auction barns in Hughesville, filled with bale after bale. Amish wagons drawn up with 4- and 6-horse teams, pulling in from all over the area. Almost as many tractor-drawn wagons or stakebed farm trucks belonging to non-Amish farmers, too. It was really impressive, seeing a line of wagons coming down the road with bales of tobacco as big as an office desk stacked 15 feet high. Fifteen years ago it would take a week of long days to move all the tobacco through the auctions. So many loads would come to market that they had to schedule a day so that the roads wouldn't be completely blocked. Wagons on one side of the barns unloading and big semitrailer rigs on the other side loading the bales for transport to the cigarette plants. Times have changed. The state pays farmers more not to grow tobacco than they can make by growing it. I drove through Hughesville Monday of this week and saw one lonely Amish farmer with a small wagonload of tobacco. No lines of wagons waiting to unload, no semi's lined up for a load. Tobacco used to be the main cash crop in this region. Heck, our house was built on an old tobacco field and the first year we lived there tobacco plants grew up in the back yard where the old tobacco barn had stood. Tobacco isn't good for a person's health and I'm not against alternate crops. It just brought home to me how times do change when I remember what this time of year used to mean to the farmers of Southern Maryland. It was payday, Christmas, and their birthday all rolled together. Money to pay the farm loan and buy the necessities of life for another year. 350 years of tradition ending. I wonder where they sell the soybeans. At least the cherry blossoms are still as profuse as ever down at the Tidal Basin. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland where it's almost spring again, only different... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158294 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-16 10:45:03 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought scott grandstaff wrote: > I thought it looked spectacular when finished and so did everybody > else, but then I tend to look for the good and not the bad. > I'm sure "Inspector Defect" would been dissatisfied beyond belief if > I'd done it to his floor. My advice? Make sure everyone who owns the > project actually rolls up their sleeves and gets involved in the hard > labor. Anyone standing around with nothing else to do ends up > inspecting instead of appreciating, most times. I usually find that I'm my own worst critic. I know where the flaws are, and am appalled by them. Most folks who just stand around are in awe. But then again, I usually see the flaws that others don't, so maybe I'm just hypercritical. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158295 ---- From: "Tom Dugan" Date: 2006-03-16 19:24:26 Subject: Re: Making a bench Aw man! First Scott wakes me up with his reminiscing, then Gary takes me back to a time when I had a 36" red oak taken down in my yard, and decided to keep the butt log. First off, paint the ends! Fast! >Make a bunch of gluts. You'll need 2 or 3 Steel wedges to leapfrog, and >gluts to hold the split open. Debark the log, and score the log with an >unmentionable tool of the devil along about where the split should run. >Start the wedges at one end and work down the length of the log. I use >wedges in the ends to keep the halves even. You'll need to work slow and >steady. > Exactly right, and I'd add that you might want to leapfrog the wedges both along the log and down the diameter from one corner. >Eyeball the log and be sure the grain is nearly straight. If the tree has a >twist, so will your slab. No way around this. Gauging from my experience, you may also find a scissors jack useful when the log becomes reluctant to split any more. This may happen even if no knots are visible. They're there anyway. (As always, DAMHIKT.) Little else to add, except not to worry that site-made gluts get chewed up after a while. Don't spend a lot of time making them, but the smoother their faces are, the easier the going, obviously. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll crawl back under the porch for another coupla years. -T ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158296 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-16 11:52:08 Subject: splitting a log GGs, A friend from my snowshoemaking class just dropped off a 12' brown ash log, maybe 7" diameter. I'd like to split it while green and use some for snowshoes while stashing the rest until I need it for something. So far I've debarked it and wrapped the ends in wet rags with plastic wrapped around that. I have a few questions, if it pleases the Porch: ** I'd like to make sure I split it correctly since it was a gift, so does anyone have some tips on how to ensure clean straight splits? Is ash easy to split? ** What other uses is ash good for, could I make a bow out of it? ** Usually the ash is bent around the snowshoe form while still green, but since I'm not ready for that yet, would I be able to just steam the dried pieces for bending? In other words, can I restore the wood to it's green springiness by steaming? Or would it be better to leave the wood debarked and unsplit for a month or two? Would it still be "green"? ** How cool is it to have someone just drop off a tree just because you asked? Much thanks in advance, Adriaan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158297 ---- From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Date: 2006-03-16 14:02:06 Subject: Re: Three whatsits At 04:15 AM 3/16/06, you wrote: >Esteemed Galoots, > > >Here's something I watched go past today: >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item > >There were two sets of them. They appear to be square inside, and >would probably go into a brace. I don't care what the rest of them thought they were... but - those are DEFINITELY "cookie cutters" that you can put in a brace. After the dough is rolled out, you cut the cookie w/ the square thingy. If the dough won't fall out of the cutter you can twist the brace quickly and sling it out by centrifugal force. Smaller models of the same were often used in Babdist Churches to make those little communion wafers. hth. < i'll probably be banned to sleep UNDER the old van for the next week or so... > Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 3/15/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158298 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-16 15:42:11 Subject: Handsaw Sharpening Question In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to make the teeth and the jointed surface more visible. I can't find this product locally. Does anyone have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout fluid, but that stuff can be a pain to get off. Thanks for any help. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158299 ---- From: Christopher Swingley Date: 2006-03-16 11:54:14 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening Question Bill, * Bill Rittner [2006-Mar-16 14:42 AKST]: > In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to make the teeth and the > jointed surface more visible. I can't find this product locally. Does anyone > have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout fluid, but that stuff can be > a pain to get off. I use a candle, running the blade through the flame until the teeth are coated with soot. The teeth barely get warm, and the soot comes off very quickly as soon as you start sawing. Can't get much more galootish than a candle! Cheers, Chris -- Christopher S. Swingley University of Alaska Fairbanks cswingle@i... http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/ OldTools Searchable Archive: http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158300 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-16 14:06:11 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening Question There is always Brownell's for gunsmithing tools and supplies: http://www.brownells.com/Default.aspx Or you can get yerself a miner's carbide lamp and use it to soot up the teeth. The online auction house has a constant supply. I recently bought one just for that purpose but haven't used it on a saw yet. They are pretty cool and galootish in their own right. Not as galootish as a candle, I'll grant you, but they score far higher on the gizmocity scale. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158301 ---- From: Pete Bergstrom Date: 2006-03-16 15:11:59 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening Question Bill Rittner wrote: > In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to make the teeth and the > jointed surface more visible. I can't find this product locally. Does anyone > have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout fluid, but that stuff can be > a pain to get off. A Sharpie marker is more than enough. It doesn't come off on your fingers, and doesn't build up enough to cause a problem. Pete ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158302 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-16 13:15:37 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening Question Bill, The layout fluid will work fine, the idea is just to provide a contrast so it is easier to see the flats after jointing. The layout fluid will either be filed off or whatever gets on the sides of the blade will wear off quickly. Traditionally, the saw was held with the teeth in a candle flame and they were blackened with soot. Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi. --- Bill Rittner wrote: > In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to > make the teeth and the > jointed surface more visible. I can't find this > product locally. Does anyone > have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout > fluid, but that stuff can be > a pain to get off. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158303 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-16 13:23:17 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening Question I find that candle soot works just great. On Mar 16, 2006, at 3:42 PM, Bill Rittner wrote: > In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to make the teeth and > the > jointed surface more visible. I can't find this product locally. Does > anyone > have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout fluid, but that stuff > can be > a pain to get off. > > Thanks for any help. > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158304 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-16 16:23:51 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought I saw one last weekend at PATINA; it didn't look like a particularly fun way to spend an afternoon. Larry Kirk Eppler wrote: > > paul womack wrote: > >> >> I dread to think about refinishing, but the obvious >> way to finish a hardwood floor is with a plane, >> plank by plank, on a bench. >> >> > > > Oh Paul, you hae failed us so. Obviously, the #74 > > http://supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm#num74 > > All galoots have one, right? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158305 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-17 07:23:58 Subject: Re: Three whatsits Well, thankyou all for the enlightening replies, both on and off the list. I would never have guessed these things might be wrenches or spanners. Naturally it was suggested they might be some sort of leather tool :-) Thanks Kirk. And Rev Thomas gave me a good laugh. But this morning, while going through our third drawer in the kitchen, looking for a particular spatula (surely everybody has the third drawer full of all those kitchen implements that don't have a proper home), I noticed I already have one of these tools, but a little more decorative. I reckon these things must be made by the Shakers - no frilly edges for them. That's it - they must be Shaker ravioli cutters. Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: > At 04:15 AM 3/16/06, you wrote: > >> Esteemed Galoots, >> Here's something I watched go past today: >> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item >> >> There were two sets of them. They appear to be square inside, and >> would probably go into a brace. > > > I don't care what the rest of them thought they were... but - > those are DEFINITELY "cookie cutters" that you can put in a brace. > After the dough is rolled out, you cut the cookie w/ the square > thingy. If the dough won't fall out of the cutter you can twist the > brace quickly and sling it out by centrifugal force. > > Smaller models of the same were often used in Babdist Churches to make > those little communion wafers. > > > hth. > > > > < i'll probably be banned to sleep UNDER the old van for the next week > or so... > > > > > > > Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt > Holy Cross Lutheran Church > Warda, TX > This is IT - Warda > > -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158306 ---- From: Jerry Davis Date: 2006-03-16 16:42:23 Subject: Re: splitting a log Adriaan Gerber wrote: > A friend from my snowshoemaking class just dropped off > a 12' brown ash log, maybe 7" diameter. > I'd like to split it while green and use some for > snowshoes while stashing the rest until I need > it for something. So far I've debarked it and wrapped > the ends in wet rags with plastic wrapped > around that. I don't have a listing for brown ash but do have one for black ash (Fraxinus nigra). Its range is southeastern Canada and the northeastern US. I grows in low, swampy ground and is a medium sized tree. Its wood is of a lesser quality than white or green ash (baseball bats, tool handles and furniture). If people bend it green to make showshoes then I think that it would bend when steamed. Black ash was traditionally used by native Americans to make pack baskets. The growth rings are very narrow and splints are made by pounding the green wood until it separates at the early wood pores. Jerry Griffin, GA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158307 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-16 16:43:49 Subject: Re: Three whatsits At 03:02 PM 3/16/2006, Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: >I don't care what the rest of them thought they were... but - > >those are DEFINITELY "cookie cutters" that you can put in a >brace. After the dough is rolled out, you cut the cookie w/ the >square thingy. If the dough won't fall out of the cutter you can >twist the brace quickly and sling it out by centrifugal force. > >Smaller models of the same were often used in Babdist Churches to >make those little communion wafers. Sampling the Communion wine a little early today there Rev? Tony (is it Bourbon:30 yet?) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158308 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-16 16:50:58 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening Question For saw sharpening I've used the soot from a candle, though keeping the toothed edge of the saw in the flame to cover each and every tooth can be a challange at first. I've also got a dedicated big fat Sharpie Marker, black, that pretty much has a kerf cut down the middle of the tip, marks all the teeth black (start from the heel of the saw), any leftover marker on the sides of the teeth comes off with alcohol. Michael-San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: Bill Rittner In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to make the teeth and the jointed surface more visible. I can't find this product locally. Does anyone have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout fluid, but that stuff can be a pain to get off. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158309 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-16 17:01:09 Subject: adze I'll probably get in all kinds of trouble for this but remember I am Bad Andy. Just wondering why people are so scared of using an adze. I saw St Roy use one a few times and he just raised it up a few inches or so and brought it down. He I think he rested his elbow on his knee and raised the adze by moving his knee up and down slightly. The adze only traveled back and forth (Towards the legs) a tiny little bit. If it is nice and sharp it should cut in and not glance off the wood. I tried to use his adze the wrong way (much arm swinging) and he gave me some advice about how not to use it. Now if you raise the adze up above your waist and bring it down full bore you are asking for trouble. But a small swing shouldn't be to dangerous. Or you could be like my neighbor and use it to break tree limbs that are sitting in the dirt. Makes me sick to just think about it. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158310 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-16 18:16:44 Subject: Oak Floor Ideas Sought > How about this? > > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/caillebotte/raboteurs/ > scrapers.jpg > GG: A couple of years ago i spent 1/2 hour in front of this painting in the Musee D'Orsay in Paris. The museum is an old round roofed train station and is quite wunnerful. The painting is huge - perhaps 5' X 8' or something along those lines. The floor in the painting looks like it needs major work, not just refinishing. The boards have warped and the guy on the right is planing the high points. He is using a horned smoother and pushing it away from him. You can see the light colored strips along the joints where he has planed. The guy in the center is then scraping with a card scraper - I bet it gets hot enough to loose its temper (I know I would lose mine if I had to do this). I have no idea what the guy on the left is doing - looks like some sort of marking gauge - maybe he is cleaning the crud out of the joints? Could be a pair of barber's scissors. In 1998-9 I was in the basement of a local floor finisher who retired and sold the business his dad started (Charles Taylor for you Wilmingtonians). I spent a couple of hours hearing him talk about the days before power sanders (1935 or so) and he sold me his father's 12-1/2 (scraper, scrapper Jeff) with the "Rule and Level" logo and his 12-1/2 with the Sweetheart logo. They were both dogmeat but the story was soooo good. Turns out the Sweetheart version has a 1" mouth making it the very rare 12-3/4, but without the original bottom it can't be proven. He used Nicholson files ordered with no teeth for his burnishers. Gave me a brand new one 12" long - ever see a file with no teeth straight from the factory? He told me that for refinishing they would use the scrapers plus an assortment of odd shaped wooden handles that held card scrapers for corners and edges, etc. Said he was very very happy when the power sander showed up and almost as happy when the edge sander showed up 10 years later. Ed Minch Got cold again in Delawhere ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158311 ---- From: "greg" Date: 2006-03-16 18:37:52 Subject: Re: New Bench One of the things we do is brace the bench. Simply cut a piece of plywood to fit the end width and hieght nail her on and it will stop a lot of racking. Greg, running back under the porch afore hitting send. >> I got around to using them. Well, one day I made >> the wild intuitive leap: good benches are heavy >> because the wood is heavy, but does the weight >> have to be the wood? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158312 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-17 08:38:07 Subject: Re: Three whatsits I got some square nuts to undo, now where did I leave those brace wrenches? http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3669 http://tinyurl.com/kc3e7 The short story attached to the timber - which came from Sydney - is that a gentleman from one of Perth's more wealthy suburbs purchased it from from the developer of the Woolloomooloo wharf re-development in Sydney. Shipped it to Perth where he had it milled into planks which were then used to cover the concrete structure from which his waterside mansion is constructed. Total cost of the timber and milling came to about AUD $65,000 I was given this piece of history by the miller, immediately after letting go his metaphorically twisted arm ;-). PeterH in Perth 'nuther warm sunny 35 degrees. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158313 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-17 12:51:31 Subject: Re: Three whatsits Hi all, These remind me of the nuts and bolts my blacksmithing father and uncle made for the bridge that crossed the local river where we used to live. The bridge was about 40 metres (meters) long so I guess they were busy making nuts etc for quite a while. This was back in the good ol' days when we too lived in a 3 bedroom flat sheet 'fibro' (asbestos sheeting !!!!!) house with a path down the back to the 'facility'. Back when the fruit and veg man came around in his ancient Ford truck selling his produce and the local grocer would call door to door, take your order and deliver it later in the afternoon. And kids would spend hours playing with a few pieces of timber, some nails, a hammer and 4 old pram wheels. Peter B, in Australia Peter Huisman wrote: > I got some square nuts to undo, now where did I leave those brace > wrenches? > > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158314 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-16 20:11:24 Subject: RE: adze Andy & GGs, I don't think Andy ought to be in hot water. I have never found the adze to be particularly dangerous if you don't go at it like you're killin' snakes. It does require that you pay attention, but no more so than an axe, which tends to be swung with greater force. I like to just pop chunks under my foot, if they have already been scored with an axe. It doesn't take much force most of the time. You can split your shoe leather if you get careless and theoretically shave off the bottom of your foot! But, the adze is swung in short strokes and the blade is kept more parallel to the wood than in an arc, so it shouldn't turn upward under your foot if you are careful. Some people straddle a timber and I think this is inherently more dangerous if you decide to take big swings--and miss or glance off of a knot. But, you have to do it that way sometimes if the log is short, unstable or until you get a flat surface on the bottom. Knots can be problematic and maybe this is where the tool gets a bad rap, but I still think the axe is more dangerous, particularly when you are limbing etc. It is pretty easy for an axe to glance off in an uncontrolled manner. I took one guy to the hospital after he buried an axe in the calf of his leg. Just remember, you shouldn't drink and play with sharp objects. It is a lesson learned earlier by some than by others! I think the other problem is that people are more familiar with the axe and don't have many occasions to use an adze so it is unfamiliar. Unless you are cutting and shaping railroad ties or building a log structure or doing wooden boat building it is not a tool that gets much use. I've been shaping some green wood from some trees I had cut last week and used an axe and an adze to get them more or less square. But it is often years between times that I use an adze. I am probably in more danger sharpening the things than using them. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Andy Baughn > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:01 PM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] adze > > I'll probably get in all kinds of trouble for this but remember I am Bad > Andy. Just wondering why people are so scared of using an adze. I saw St > Roy use one a few times and he just raised it up a few inches or so and > brought it down. He I think he rested his elbow on his knee and raised > the > adze by moving his knee up and down slightly. The adze only traveled back > and forth (Towards the legs) a tiny little bit. If it is nice and sharp > it > should cut in and not glance off the wood. I tried to use his adze the > wrong way (much arm swinging) and he gave me some advice about how not to > use it. Now if you raise the adze up above your waist and bring it down > full bore you are asking for trouble. But a small swing shouldn't be to > dangerous. > > Or you could be like my neighbor and use it to break tree limbs that are > sitting in the dirt. Makes me sick to just think about it. > > Bad Andy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158315 ---- From: "David Tardiff" Date: 2006-03-16 21:29:48 Subject: Machinist's toolchest expert? Calling any machinist's tool chest experts.... I've acquired a nice one for cheap, needing just a few repairs. It's not marked in any obvious way, but has distinctive corner hardware. There are three drawers in the top row, two below that, and the front panel does NOT pivot and slide under the lower drawer, it's only retained by two pins into holes in the bottom edge. I can send photos and measurements if that'd help, but I'm curious as to who made it, and that might make it easier to find some missing hardware.....perhaps. Regards, Dave T. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 3/15/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158316 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-16 20:21:43 Subject: Re: adze (longish) Esteemed Galoots, I have some observations re: adzes, having split the sole of my shoe on more than one occasion. I have seen used adzes (adzi?) for sale where the well meaning seller ground a "secondary" bevel or bezel on the back or convex side of the adze to show it still held an edge, I suppose. In my opinion this makes the adze into a mattock or a hoe. The bezel or bevel should only be ground and honed on the upper or concave side (In cannel, if it were a gouge) This will allow it to bite the wood in a controllable way. Ground incorrectly with a double bevel the adze will dig in and bind or worse, glance off of the stock heading uncontrollably toward your lil' piddies. Handheld carving adzes are often ground out-cannel but with the much shorter handles, the attack angle works out. The forged arc of the adze head should be in line (concentric?) with an arc centered at the point where your left hand holds the handle and where it pivots. (If you are right-handed). I have seen re-handled adzes where an overly-long handle was used. This throws off the swing angle, moving the point where the adze bites well forward and control is difficult. Also the "hang" of the head must be right, I prefer if the bit tips out a smidge. Like lots of tools, adzes need tuning beyond sharpening and should be customized to the user. In use when you are surfacing a hewn beam, work diagonally across the beam cutting between, but just ahead of your feet. If you take short (less than 90-degrees) but controlled pendulum-like strokes, holding it as St. Roy and Bad Andy recommend you'll soon get beautiful surfaces. And you'll still be able to toe dance like a ballerina! (P. S. Hopefully I am not accentuating the obvious!...I'm new here) David C. At the Branford, CT end of The Porch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158317 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-16 22:57:22 Subject: A book on Tools and how to use them To those in Old Tool Land: There has been quite a bit of discussion lately about trying to identify "What the "heck" is it tools". I ran across an old book I have had for some time that I think would be quite a bit of help on this subject. It is called "Tools and how to use them" an illustrated encyclopedia by Albert Jackson. It is 352 pages of over 1500 tools, an illustration of each, their description and how to use them. Out of the 1500, I looked through the book and found less than 20 listings for power tools, so almost a 100% of it is on hand tools. Here is a partial listing: Rules: Four Fold, Extension, Masons. Squares and Bevels: Try, Carpenters, Miter, Center, Combination, T-Bevel, Dovetail Markers. Gauges: Marking, Cutting, Mortise. Jigs and Guides: Miter Box, Bench Hook, Shooting Board, Doweling Jigs. Saws: Hand, Back, Two Man Crosscut, One Man Crosscut, Dovetail, Veneer, Flooring, Frame, Coping, Fret, Hack, Saw Sets. Chisels and Gouges: Firmer, Bevel Edge Firmer, Paring, Mortise, Sash Mortise, Lock Mortise, Drawer Lock Chisel. Planes: Jack, Smoothing, Jointer, Bull Nose, Bench Rabbit, Rabbit and Filister, Block, Shoulder, Compass, Toothing, Side Rabbit, Molding, Tongue and Groove, Hollowing and Rounding, Plow, Combination. Routers: Hand, Miniature, Granny's Tooth. Spokeshaves: Half Round, Combination, Chamfer. Braces and Drills: Brace, Joist, Corner,Hand Drill, Breast Drill, Push Drill, Auger Bits. Plus: Ratchet Screwdrivers, Hammers, Axes, Rasps and Files, Hatchets, Adzes, Hooks, Scythes, Froes and Bill Hooks. A real good book on Old Tools for reference and identification. If interested, I found this book still available at Amazon. www.amazon.com/books Put the title in the search. Bob Sturgeon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158318 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-16 21:52:33 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Thursday 16 March 2006 05:28 am, Kirk Eppler wrote: > Oh Paul, you hae failed us so. Obviously, the #74 > > http://supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm#num74 > > All galoots have one, right? But I was thinking one could make their own with a piece of timber, with a sheet of belt sander paper, and attach a hinged broomstick on it. The floor plane looks pretty cool. Anyone on the list have one? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158319 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-16 21:54:56 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Thursday 16 March 2006 01:23 pm, L.A. Root wrote: > I saw one last weekend at PATINA; > it didn't look like a particularly fun way to spend an afternoon. Unfortunatly there are times when we have to do some work that just ain't so fun...:-( -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158320 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-16 22:01:05 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Thursday 16 March 2006 03:16 pm, Michele Minch wrote: > > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/caillebotte/raboteurs/ What a great pic! > I have no idea what the > guy on the left is doing - looks like some sort of marking gauge - > maybe he is cleaning the crud out of the joints? Could be a pair of > barber's scissors. Looks to me like he's trying to find high/low spots to determine where they need to plane/scrape. Certainly looks like hard work, but I bet a planed floor feel great to walk on, after putting a finish over the top of it. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158321 ---- From: "Dan Clermont" Date: 2006-03-16 22:49:08 Subject: What kinda wood is This? Hello Everyone, This piece of wood was given to me at a local woodshow by a vendor. He did not know what it was. i thought it may be jatoba or Mahogany. The board is 0.95Board feet and weighs 5.2 pounds. Seems to be allot of silica in it and has open pores from what I can tell. http://www3.telus.net/clermonts/Wood/IMG_0818.JPG http://www3.telus.net/clermonts/Wood/IMG_0819.JPG Was gonna make it into a tea box with some Bird's eye maple drawer fronts. Cheers Dan Clermont -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.3/281 - Release Date: 3/14/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158322 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-17 16:53:22 Subject: Re: Making a bench Gary Maze writes: > #1 - I have gotten the 2 pieces home and stacked in front of the shop, and > am getting ready to sharpen the tools I will need but had never sharpened > before. Is there a web site on how to sharpen adzes? It is just a plain adze > (not a shipwrights, or even polled), but it is the only thing I have to > flatten the bench top. I got a Granfors axe sharpening stone for Christmas, > would that work? I am also hoping one of these days to drag the FIL's foot > powered wheel home, but that may not be until after Easter, so it will > haveto be with a hand crank grinder or files and stones. The adze should be sharpened only on the beveled edge which is on the upper side of the blade and the crown should be preserved or, if there is not one, should be worked in. This should go without saying until one considers the number of old adzes which appear to have been converted to gardening tools with top and bottom bevels and a straight-line edge. The crown's radius is usually the distance from the rear edge of the socket to the cutting edge with the tool's blade at its original length which is fairly unsatisfactory advice if the edge has been significantly ground back over time. Put it another, perhaps also unsatisfactory, way. The crown is quite noticeable but not pronounced. Yet another way. 10 inches should do as the crown's radius. I'm not familiar with a Granfors axe-sharpening stone but I suspect that its being called an "axe-sharpening" stone means that the stone is to be applied to the tool rather than the tool to the stone. Applying the stone to the tool is, for me, at least, the most difficult method of freehand sharpening to master and become proficient with and it is usually much more satisfactory in terms of results to apply the tool to the stone. Some so-called "axe-sharpening" stones in Oz are circular and are clearly intended to be applied to the axe freehand. However, the use of such stones would seldom be seen amongst competitive axemen who, having massive experience to guide them, apply their rectangular oilstones to their axes freehand between events. I certainly would not recommend the use of a circular stone applied to the tool, which is the only way it can be used, in any circumstance where there was available an alternative method. It is suggested that there be considered the setting up of an ordinary India 8"x 2" combination stone on a piece of 4"x4" hardwood, the heavier the better. Eyeball the stone to the middle of one side of the piece and draw pencil lines around it. Extend those pencil lines to the side and ends of the timber. Make 4 saw cuts along those lines to a depth of one half of the thickness of the stone and chisel out the middle piece representing the stone's outline and you have a safe position in which to deposit your stone for use. The piece of 4"x4" keeps the stone and the tool being sharpened well above the bench's top and permits the stone to be placed well inboard of the edge of the bench to avoid being dragged or pushed over the edge during the stoning process. The weight of the 4"x4" keeps the stone steady and in place on the bench and, for an even firmer grip, four brads can be driven well into the underside of the piece near the corners, their tops cut off leaving short pieces of shank protruding which can easily be pointed with a file. All of this is quite necessary to resist the tendency of the stone to move when a comparatively heavy piece, such as an adze iron, is to be stoned and can be accomplished more quickly than it can be described in writing. I have found a mixture of one part of ordinary engine oil and three parts of kerosene (There I go on kerosene again) to furnish a satisfactory stoning oil. Sharpening the adze may then be accomplished by "clicking" down the bevel (top)on the coarse side of the stone with the fingers of the left hand for right-handers whilst the right hand touches the left hand and the fingers of the right hand are curled to support but not to hold the adze underneath at the "clicked" angle. The fingers of the left hand are crooked and pressed down very firmly on the back of the bevel as close to the edge of the adze as possible. The stone should be set with its length parallel to the side of the bench at which the worker stands and the adze should be moved SIDEWAYS along the length of its bevel up and down the length of the stone until a wire edge is produced by the coarse side. This can all be quite tiring for someone not used to it and the face of the bevel may drift out of flat contact with the stone from time to time. One should therefore re-set by "clicking" the bevel to the stone quite often during this process until a certain facility is developed over time whereby the need for re-setting will occur at less-frequent intervals. Forming a wire edge with the coarse side of the stone can be quite a lengthy process, depending upon the dullness of the edge to start with, but it must be achieved if the adze is to perform as it ought. When a satisfactory wire edge has been formed it is to be left intact, the stone is turned over with its fine side uppermost and the process is repeated until the whole of the bevel has been polished by the fine side. Then the wire may be removed by CAREFULLY running the underside of the Adze's tip FLAT along the stone with the fingers of the left hand pressing firmly down at the edge of the adze on top of the upturned bevel. A second wire edge may then be established with the fine side of the stone with the bevel flat on the stone and again removed in the described manner and the edge may then be stropped by whichever method one finds suitable. Throughout the process it is better to err on the side of applying too much oil to the stone than too little. The whole edge must be able to remove hair easily from the wrist. Initially, this is a lengthy process but, once a proper cutting edge has been achieved, it is a matter of two minutes at most to restore the edge on the fine side of the stone during the course of work. No mention has been made of grinding the edge simply because grinding an adze satisfactorily is a very difficult undertaking beyond the skills of most of us whereas the taking of the long way around by the use of a combination India stone is available to anyone possessing the required degrees of determination and persistence. Filing, even with a smooth-cut file, is unsatisfactory because of the vast amount of stoning then needed to remove the almost invisible file scores, failing which the edge will blunt very quickly. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158323 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-17 16:57:45 Subject: Re: (Gasp!) Completed Something Nice work Andy, nice. I'm a sucker for timber that's on fire. And I'm sure most galoots know that working figured wood is a tad more difficult than working straight grain. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3663 PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158324 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-17 10:06:58 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought scott grandstaff wrote: > > I thought the #12 scraper plane and all it's cousins (including the > fractions) were invented for refinishing floors? > I once used a #80 and some hand card scraping on a floor. Did it a patch > at a time. Took less than a week. Reminder to anyone refinishing floors. *BEFORE* you start planing, scraping or sanding, get a nail punch and ensure that each and every nail is punched below the surface. Otherwise... BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158325 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-17 05:58:23 Subject: Re: What kinda wood is This? It is hard to tell from pictures, but it looks and sounds like some lyptus I have seen. Unlike most lyptus it is very heavy and very difficult to machine. In fact a ww'ing friend said he would never use the stuff again. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Clermont" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:49 PM Subject: [OldTools] What kinda wood is This? > > Hello Everyone, > > This piece of wood was given to me at a local woodshow by a vendor. He did > not know what it was. i thought it may be jatoba or Mahogany. The board is > 0.95Board feet and weighs 5.2 pounds. Seems to be allot of silica in it and > has open pores from what I can tell. > > http://www3.telus.net/clermonts/Wood/IMG_0818.JPG > http://www3.telus.net/clermonts/Wood/IMG_0819.JPG > > Was gonna make it into a tea box with some Bird's eye maple drawer fronts. > > Cheers > Dan Clermont > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.3/281 - Release Date: 3/14/2006 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158326 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-17 11:31:52 Subject: Workmate Bench Dear Galoots, Since I don't have a real bench at the moment and I don't have much space available in what's going to be my shop for a while I am considering the Workmate 425 from B&D. http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=7812 >From older posts found in the archive I see that this a popular choice which many use and praise as a secondary bench or when out of the shop. I undertand that the older models made out of diecast aluminium are more solid that the new ones, but I haven't been able to find any of those at the flea market. The workmate will be used for some small projects and tools like a bowsaw (BugBear's design) so it's somewhat limited work surface won't be a problem for now. Down the road it will be used to build a real bench, but that won't happen until next year or so when I move to a bigger house. My concern is that it won't be stable enought when planing and sawing boards and may shake too much. Can anyone comment on this? In the past I've tried to do my planing on a large MDF board attached to an old stepladder, but it was very unstable which made the job much more dificult than it really was. There are some other similar benches from WolfCraft, but from what I've seen, the Workmate is a bit more solid and has a better construction. Thanks, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158327 ---- From: "Maddex, Peter" Date: 2006-03-17 12:15:55 Subject: RE: Workmate Bench Hi, I used a workmate for years I made loads of stuff using it, and struggled every time, its too weak and small to plane on, you couldn't put a board straight down through the jaws as a cross brace was in the way (the most stupid design ever IMHO)and all your tools fall off. I have a 56Lb weight I used as a stabiliser but it got in the way. If I was you I would get a couple of the really cheap own brand ones, they are under £10 here and an old flat door or something similar with a couple of cleats on to clamp the workmates to, then you could break it down and fold it away when not in use, I wish I had done this at the time! pete Peter Michael Maddex Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know Systems Operational Support Nottingham Trent University -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Luis Martins Sent: 17 March 2006 11:32 To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] Workmate Bench Dear Galoots, Since I don't have a real bench at the moment and I don't have much space available in what's going to be my shop for a while I am considering the Workmate 425 from B&D. http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product- Details.aspx?ProductID=7812 >From older posts found in the archive I see that this a popular choice which many use and praise as a secondary bench or when out of the shop. I undertand that the older models made out of diecast aluminium are more solid that the new ones, but I haven't been able to find any of those at the flea market. The workmate will be used for some small projects and tools like a bowsaw (BugBear's design) so it's somewhat limited work surface won't be a problem for now. Down the road it will be used to build a real bench, but that won't happen until next year or so when I move to a bigger house. My concern is that it won't be stable enought when planing and sawing boards and may shake too much. Can anyone comment on this? In the past I've tried to do my planing on a large MDF board attached to an old stepladder, but it was very unstable which made the job much more dificult than it really was. There are some other similar benches from WolfCraft, but from what I've seen, the Workmate is a bit more solid and has a better construction. Thanks, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158328 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-17 12:51:50 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench Luis Martins wrote: > Dear Galoots, > > Since I don't have a real bench at the moment and I don't have much > space available in what's going to be my shop for a while I am > considering the Workmate 425 from B&D. > > http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID > > My concern is that it won't be stable enought when planing and sawing > boards and may shake too much. Can anyone comment on this? While the workmate is a great and versatile thing, the one thing it is NOT rigid and heavy enough for is "real" planing. Prolonged heavy use of a workmate will likey generate wear (and looseness) in the various joints. In short, I would STRONGLY recommend owning a workmate for DIY around the house, but sadly, a workmate is a poor galoot WW workbench. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158329 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-17 07:30:30 Subject: RE: Workmate Bench Gentlemen and Representatives of the Fairer Sex, I have been working for several years now with a WorkMutt as my sole bench, and can heartily agree with the opinions so far put forth. Just this last Tuesday evening I was using my Stanley 45 (combo plough, etc. plane, Jeff) to groove some stock for a tool tote I'm making (another post). Even with the Mutt braced against a wall it danced all over the place, and took me much longer and more effort than it should have. My advice is this - if you can afford a brand new Mutt, you can afford a solid-core door and a little doug fir to make a base, and build yourself a simple bench (the only reason I haven't done this is that I can't afford a Mutt - it was given to me...) Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Luis Martins Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:32 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] Workmate Bench Dear Galoots, Since I don't have a real bench at the moment and I don't have much space available in what's going to be my shop for a while I am considering the Workmate 425 from B&D. http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-details.aspx?ProductID=78 12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158330 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-17 08:28:57 Subject: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes GG`s, Have mercy on us bottom dwellers for asking such a simple question. We don't get much sunlight down here under the T&G oak floor planking. Been busy learning to use some of the basic molding planes, H/R`s and such. Such a sweet sound that skeeettcch of a fine piece of molded beechwood over a made in USA chunk-o-red oak. Well as luck would have it a coupla handled filly stirs and a plow or two have followed me home of late. The question is simply (?) What is the best way to loosen the wedges on these handled phantoms ? I don't wanna be banging on the handle or tapping on the top. Grabbing the wedge inna vise seems like a sure way to bust sumpthing. What is the secret ? Maybe I need to get out more often ? John Edwards in a sunny but kinda mild (40`s) New Baltimore, Mi. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158331 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-17 08:44:08 Subject: Re: What kinda wood is This? Could it be Ipe---Dense, high silca content, varies from light brown to strange green color? Neighber put some on an upstairs deck, had to pre-drill all the holes for the deck screws--contractor hated it, much slower to instal than PT wood or fake wood plastic stuff they use for decks round here tim raleigh nc "Dan Clermont" Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/17/2006 01:49 AM To cc Subject [OldTools] What kinda wood is This? Hello Everyone, This piece of wood was given to me at a local woodshow by a vendor. He did not know what it was. i thought it may be jatoba or Mahogany. The board is 0.95Board feet and weighs 5.2 pounds. Seems to be allot of silica in it and has open pores from what I can tell. http://www3.telus.net/clermonts/Wood/IMG_0818.JPG http://www3.telus.net/clermonts/Wood/IMG_0819.JPG Was gonna make it into a tea box with some Bird's eye maple drawer fronts. Cheers Dan Clermont -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.3/281 - Release Date: 3/14/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158332 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-17 07:53:04 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes John comes up for air and asks the following: :The question is simply (?) What is the best way to loosen the wedges on :these handled phantoms ? :I don't wanna be banging on the handle or tapping on the top. Grabbing the :wedge inna vise seems like a sure way to bust sumpthing. That's exactly what Mike Dunbar suggests in Restoring, Tuning, Using... He says you need to be careful, but for a really stuck wedge, that's the best answer. If I remember correctly, he said get as much of the wedge in the vice as possible, and tap on the front of the plane. Hopefully some of our woodie experts (Don?) will chime in with some real world experience. Not that the lack thereof has ever stopped me from posting before... Rob in Peoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158333 ---- From: "James Amrine Jr." Date: 2006-03-17 09:01:52 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes John Edwards asked about un-stucking wedges..... What about knocking the iron in a bit from the top? With the tapered irons, I find even the really stuck ones come free pretty easily that way. I've done the vise thing too, but that always makes me nervous. -Jamey Amrine in Ann Arbor, where 5 days ago it seemed spring had sprung (now he's not so sure...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158334 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-17 09:03:14 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench A brand new "real" workmate is around 80-90US on amazon. The $30 workmates are glorified saw horses and not worth messing with. The problem with using a door for a bench top (for me) was finding a cheap door. If there is a "habitat for humanity" building supply recycling store in your town, then check them out. The workmate needs a bunch of weight on it to keep from dancing around. Don't use a 5 gallon bucket full of water, it will fall off. Putting blocks, cement bags, or some other weight on the step will keep it from moving around, but it will still wobble some. a 2 foot by 5 foot bench made from 2x4's glued up would cost you about the same as a workmate (including a few pipe clamps to make it) and work better as a starter bench (say 14 2x4x8, cut 3 feet off each, glue up the 5 foot pieces into a top thats 4 inches thick. Leaves you 14 pieces 3 feet long to make legs with(but make them the right length) maybe buy another 1 or 2x4x8 to make stretchers with). the wood should cost 30-40$ us based on prices in NC, That leaves you with another $40 for clamps, glue alnd a few bolts to hold the top and legs togather. Bigest advantage for a workmate is that is folds up and stores on the wall. (also its disadvantage--leaves pointy metal bits sticking out at ankle level, at least my old one did) tim Raleigh nc "Luis Martins" Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/17/2006 06:31 AM To oldtools@r... cc Subject [OldTools] Workmate Bench Dear Galoots, Since I don't have a real bench at the moment and I don't have much space available in what's going to be my shop for a while I am considering the Workmate 425 from B&D. http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=7812 >From older posts found in the archive I see that this a popular choice which many use and praise as a secondary bench or when out of the shop. I undertand that the older models made out of diecast aluminium are more solid that the new ones, but I haven't been able to find any of those at the flea market. The workmate will be used for some small projects and tools like a bowsaw (BugBear's design) so it's somewhat limited work surface won't be a problem for now. Down the road it will be used to build a real bench, but that won't happen until next year or so when I move to a bigger house. My concern is that it won't be stable enought when planing and sawing boards and may shake too much. Can anyone comment on this? In the past I've tried to do my planing on a large MDF board attached to an old stepladder, but it was very unstable which made the job much more dificult than it really was. There are some other similar benches from WolfCraft, but from what I've seen, the Workmate is a bit more solid and has a better construction. Thanks, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158335 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-17 09:10:42 Subject: Re: (Gasp!) Completed Something... GG's, Thanks everyone for the kind words regarding my coffee table. There were some questions regarding various aspects of the table that I glossed over in my original post. Seems that the vast majority of you are concerned about my breadboard ends. Now before you get all concerned and wory yourself that I didn't take wood movement into account, let me tell you that I used listmom Chris Swingley's breadboard technique as can be seen here: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/woodworking/images/bedside_ta ble.pdf His technique has the outermost pins (where the most movement occurs) riding in slots. I must say that it's worked great so far since there's been about 1/4" of movement on either end! Somebody else asked me how I attached the table top. I gotta confess that I mixed up about two pounds of 10-ton epoxy and smeared it on the underside of the table top, then used thirteen gizmo band c-clamps to smoosh the top onto the bottom. OK. Really, I made some of those cute L-shaped buttons in wood using my moving fillester and plowed some grooves into the apron. Sombody else asked me how much sandpaper it took to tame the figured wood. Well, this was my first project with highly figurd wood. That being said I really didn't find it very difficult to plane to baby-butt smoothness. It was soft maple, maybe that makes a difference? But I just attacked it with my not-so-special Stanley made in England numbah fowah (cast iron smooth plane, Jeff) with original paper-thin iron. Didn't really even pay attention to which way I was planing neither. Thanks again for the compliments folks. -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158336 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-17 08:26:34 Subject: Kerosene Redux Whilst reading in volume 5 of the History of Technology I came across a piece of information regarding the volatility--or lack thereof--of Kerosene. It seems that it begins to vaporize between 30 and 50 C --that's something like 87-122F. The information was included in a discussion of the problems of getting Kero to ignite in early British infernal combustion engines. But I have to revise my thinking regarding Kero safety regardless of the use. Where I had seen it flash was in the presence of a heated surface way beyond 122F. So I was wrong in my somewhat blank assessment of the danger of Kero. Now, I shall crawl back under the porch and see if I can get this damn kerosene lantern to light with the farmer's matches that ignite at 150F at the tip, which then ignites the rest of the head at 500F and the wood at 800F. I don't know where that came from, but it seemed like good Galootish information. Paul in Normal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158337 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-17 09:43:17 Subject: Re: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes Rob suggests loosening the wedge by: > :The question is simply (?) What is the best way to loosen the wedges on > :these handled phantoms ? > > :I don't wanna be banging on the handle or tapping on the top. Grabbing the > :wedge inna vise seems like a sure way to bust sumpthing. > > That's exactly what Mike Dunbar suggests in Restoring, Tuning, Using... He > says you need to be careful, but for a really stuck wedge, that's the best > answer. If I remember correctly, he said get as much of the wedge in the > vice as possible, and tap on the front of the plane. > If the wedge is stationary in the vice and you smack her on the toe, you will drive the wedge in further. I think we want to tap on the heel to extract the iron. I'd also suggest that it would be preferable to tap with a small wood mallet or a leather head mallet as opposed to a steel hammer. Happy Paddy's Day to all. Chris, in West Lafayette, IN where the sun is shining ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158338 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-17 08:46:37 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes Wait, reverse that... (there will only ever be one Willy Wonka) Chris correctly states that I had it backwards. Sounds like trying to build a tool tote this week (story to follow)... >If the wedge is stationary in the vice and you smack her on the toe, you >will drive the wedge in further. I think we want to tap on the heel to >extract the iron. >I'd also suggest that it would be preferable to tap with a small wood >mallet or a leather head mallet as opposed to a steel hammer. Good advice. Rob in Peoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158339 ---- From: "Anne Watson" Date: 2006-03-17 05:28:55 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench I have and use an old one. Would not be without it. It will never replace a true huge workbench, but is very versatile. Living in S. Arizona I do lots of things on the porch of my shop and I can just rearrange the WM to fit the occasion. Presently I am constructing a work bench starting with 4 foot pine pieces (4x6) left over from a house construction site. Each leg gets clamped in the WM to cut, chisel or whatever, as necessary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Martins" > Since I don't have a real bench at the moment and I don't have much > space available in what's going to be my shop for a while I am > considering the Workmate 425 from B&D. > > http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=7812 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158340 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-17 07:29:42 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench Hello! I think you'll find a workmate difficult to use for planing without a lot of stabilizing accoutrements. I think a couple of sturdy shop-made sawhorses and a solid core door screwed down would be better. With the addition of a bench vise, a wedged stop and a pair of holdfasts, you'll be happier. Lay a plank across the saw horse stretchers and store heavy things there. It will help keep things still. David C. Here in Branford Connecticut ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158341 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-03-18 00:48:57 Subject: Re: New Bench There are a few ways to obtain a solid planing bench. One is to make is heavy. Another is to brace it well at the rear. But so far no one has suggested bolting it to a wall. This made a big difference to my bench, turning it into a rock solid surface. Regards from Perth Derek Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158342 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-17 12:35:21 Subject: Re: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes At 08:28 AM 3/17/2006, John Edwards wrote: >Well as luck would have it a coupla handled filly stirs and a plow or two >have followed me home of late. > >The question is simply (?) What is the best way to loosen the wedges on >these handled phantoms ? > >I don't wanna be banging on the handle or tapping on the top. Grabbing the >wedge inna vise seems like a sure way to bust sumpthing. Well this works with both handled and unhandled planes. Now first let review the RULE regarding planes and hammers. Wood on wood and metal on metal. If you are striking the body to remove the wedge or setting the wedge ALWAYS use a wooden mallet. I don't give a good snot about what others have written because that is a good way to damage a plane. What works for me "most" of the time is to hold the plane in the plane in my left hand with the wedge pinched between the thumb and index finger. And as a picture being worth a thousand words.. http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/thegrip.jpg Then tap the heel with a mallet while pushing up on the wedge with the 2 gripping fingers. Now it goes without saying, BUT I'd better say it anyway, do it over the bench so just in case the wedge loosens real fast you don't drop the plane on the floor. 99% of the time with real tight wedge. it's going to come out slowly so that's usually not a problem but ya never know. I don't have a toted plow here but most that I have seen there is usually enough body wood showing at the heel to tap. The alternative is to tap on the top of the plane by the toe. I used to do that but found I was dinging planes so I rarely do that anymore. Taping the iron out may or may not help. The problem being that those tangs are iron, and for the most part (plow planes excepted) pretty thin and in a number of cases structurally comprised by rusting. I would use some thing light as in about a 2 oz or a 4 oz hammer at most. I may have did the wedge in the vise number once or twice, but if I have I don't recall it. Just a another good way to damage the wedge and iron in my book. And since I'm sure this will come up and it's been mentioned before (by me) but it's worth mentioning again. If the wedge feels like it is binding or sticking going in, what I do is to take a chisel and scrape the wedge sides lightly till it travels in the mortise with little exertion. You should just use enough pressure on the chisel (and I hold it down by the edge) to be taking dust off the wedge, not shavings. Do it a little at a time, scrape and test, scrape and test. If you do it correctly, it won't be noticeable. If there is a lot of rust funk on the back of the wedge I give that a light scraping as well. Now the real PITFA are bench planes where the wood body as shrunk around the iron. The wedge comes out but the iron is in with a death grip. I have tried the refrigerator number but that works some of the time and of course with a big plane there are logistical problems to content with. I have a smoother and a jack plane here both with that problem. I'll get them out eventually.... Tony (cool but sunny) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158343 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-17 11:47:41 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes Hey, Tony, Once you get the iron out of a wooden bench plane with the below-described problem, what is the best way to make it work in the future? Grind the sides of the blade? Pare the inside of the plane body? Get a new blade? Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Anthony Seo Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:35 AM To: John Edwards; Old Tool List Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes Now the real PITFA are bench planes where the wood body as shrunk around the iron. The wedge comes out but the iron is in with a death grip. I have tried the refrigerator number but that works some of the time and of course with a big plane there are logistical problems to content with. I have a smoother and a jack plane here both with that problem. I'll get them out eventually.... Tony (cool but sunny) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158344 ---- From: Jim Erdman Date: 2006-03-17 09:49:32 Subject: bargain books A couple of weeks ago someone mentioned that Hamilton Books had some Astragal press books at super prices. I check it out at http://www.hamiltonbook.com , did a "power search" for publisher "astragal", and soon spent almost $80 for books, which would have been over $210 at list prices. They took awhile to arrive, but I have spent the last couple of evenings looking at levels and plow planes that I may never see in person, and already feel that my head is getting filled up again. Yoou may want to check this out. Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158345 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-17 09:58:47 Subject: The Pine Blotch Short Story: An old problem - I’m having problems getting a non-blotchy medium-dark brown stain on pine. Long Story (with bonus family history): I’m working on another family heirloom project, this time a more recent circa 1968. The project is a home-built dining room table (36’ wide by 90” long) and a matching bench built by my wife’s father and a neighbor to accommodate a very large family – my wife is one of nine kids. I would like to postpone a detailed description of the table and bench. and the wood butchery, for another post because it will be easier to discuss with accompanying photos. Lets just say (TM) that it's a uniquely styled table and bench. Now, here is the situation. The table and bench are made from pine, ponderosa pine according to Dad, and it seems right to me, but don’t take my word for it. In 1968 Dad and neighbor stained everything black, table was installed in the dining room and everyone ate heartily at the table for years, until it was put to rest in the garage and became a "surface." You know the drill, any horizontal plane in a garage or storage area instantly becomes a shelf – in this case a very big shelf. Okay, fast forward about 20-years to today. I now have the table in my shop. It has suffered a bit from its years of duty as a shelf, but less than you would expect. The current plan is to refinish the tabletop to a medium brown to match some chairs that we have, which are black everywhere except the seat, which is stained. I've planed/sanded down the top and performed some wood butchery, er-joinery (again, photos to follow) on the table’s underside. Ultimately, I plan to scrape the final surface to get that smooth edge-tool look. So here's the issue (anyone still with me - hellooo?). I'm deathly afraid of "The Blotch" You know it… the dreaded "Pine Blotch." How do you get a medium dark stain on pine without the blotch? I’ve tried a couple of test boards – unfortunately not ponderosa pine, which I would have to travel several days to find, but on local Borg white pine, which takes about 15 minutes to find. Test board one: 50/50-BLO/Turps (for natural grain enhancement), followed by a spit coat of garnet shellac (a bit of color & protection from the blotch), then followed by two coats of General Finishes Gel Stain Nutmeg Brown (which is the aimed for color). Problem… not dark enough. Test board two: 50/50-BLO/Turps (again for natural grain enhancement), followed by General Finishes Gel Stain Nutmeg Brown. A bit darker, but it looks like it needs another coat or two and I think that we will be experiencing "grain obscurity rather" than enhancement. Also, it looks like it could blotch given the right circumstances. I’ve been mining the OldTools archives, my library, and surfing the net seeking the answer. I’ve read about using a 1:1 ratio of caustic soda to water to warm up the pine, but that seems a bit extreme and dangerous. I’ve also read about using nitric acid to do the same and this seems even more extreme and dangerous. So, does anyone have any advice or experience that they are willing to share? Thanks in advance. Steve in Dallas Oh yeah… OT content: So far I’ve used a Stanley #7, and a #81 cabinet scraper, Everlasting chisels, and a Keystone backsaw. P.S. I’ll be away from civilization on a weekend backpacking trip for the next couple of days, so I’ll have to check back for "Porch Wisdom" on Monday. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/WS-Links.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158346 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-17 13:20:49 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes At 12:47 PM 3/17/2006, Robert Weber wrote: >Hey, Tony, > >Once you get the iron out of a wooden bench plane with the below-described >problem, what is the best way to make it work in the future? Grind the sides >of the blade? Pare the inside of the plane body? Get a new blade? What I do is to take the iron with the cap iron (if it has one) installed and to lightly file the sides till it fits. Most of the time you are talking a cat hair or so's (and I ain't talking about the 4 legged kind either) worth of metal to come off. I do not recommend paring the insides of the wedge and iron mortise. Most times there ain't a whole lotta wood there and I just can't see weakening it any more. I can only think of one instance where I did that (and I used a file edge to open the mortise just a wee bit) and that was on an 18th Century jack plane which had a little more wood on the sides and I didn't want to overly futz with the iron. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158347 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-17 10:22:35 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Steven Longley wrote: > I'm deathly afraid of "The Blotch" You know it… the dreaded > "Pine Blotch." How do you get a medium dark stain on pine > without the blotch? > > >So, does anyone have any advice or experience that they are willing >to share? > > Check out Jeff Jewitt's "Hand Applied Finishes" and Mike Dresdner's "The New Wood Finishing Book" from your local library. One of them has info on how to avoid the blotch, which stain to choose, etc. May involve shellac (what around here doesn't?). I loaned my copy to a neighbor for his cherry trim (also prone to blotch), and he was thrilled with the results. Don't have them handy, or I'd look them up for you. If your local library doesn't have them, drop another note and I'll fish them out of storage (yes this is an indication that I haven;t finished a project in a few years. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, who may actually get shop time this weekend. Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158348 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-17 12:43:27 Subject: The Tool Tote I was really hoping that I would be writing you all today in triumph about a completed project. Tonight I am participating in a work night at our church in one of the older buildings that is being renovated. Inspired by Roger Van Maren's pallet wood tool tote http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg I thought I would put together a tote to tote my hand tools to this work night. I knew that I didn't have time to really make a good one, but I need the practice, and without deadlines I don't seem to get anything done. I had picked up an older softwood tote at a flea market a few years ago, but it was too big and heavy for regular use and just ended up sitting in my work room on end in a corner. I figured it would make an excellent wood donor - especially the center piece with the handle carved into it. I destroyed the ends taking it apart, so made new oak ends from some scrap. Then the comedy of errors began. The plan was to dovetail the sides together, make one long side shorter than the other so the bottom could extend past the side and support a saw, a la the above posted link. First, I cut the dovetails without accounting for the shorter side, so the bottom of the dovetails are hanging out in space after trimming for the bottom. Then I noticed that I marked and cut the pins backwards in one of the ends. Trim the ends off both long pieces and recut (both of them to keep the length the same). After finally getting the outside of the box together (not too bad dovetails for a first attempt - should be solid when glued), I plowed a groove for the bottom in three sides. Last night I went to assemble the sides to mark out the bottom when I noticed that I HAD PLOWED THE GROOVE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE ENDS, not the inside. Needless to say, I didn't get the project completed for tonight's work night, but I will complete this project. Mark my words, I will complete it. So, learn (once again) from my mistakes, and be very careful when marking out. I've made two major marking out blunders on this project already, mostly from rushing. Oh, and I'll post pics when I have something to photograph. That is all. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158349 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-17 10:55:48 Subject: Re: bargain books I only spent $56... what did I miss?! Steve in Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158350 ---- From: bouland@g... Date: 0000-00-00 00:00:00 Subject: Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening Fellow galoots, I haven’t been around kerosene since I was a about 8 and I decided to take my bicycle apart to see how it worked (a theme in many of my childhood adventures) My Dad instructed me to clean off the gunked up parts in a pan full of kerosene which was conveniently stored in a dark spider infested corner of the garage in a – you guessed it – old glass mason jar!!! I soon learned in many a classroom filmstrip that we were tempting the fates and basically a mosquito sneeze away from certain immolation. In some past reading of the old Pop. Mechanics how to guides from the 30’s-50’s and recent postings to the list I’ve seen mention of our friend kerosene. It seems to be a dirty word when associated with dirt/rust removal and I’m OK with that, but I’m curious about something I’ve been trying to accomplish: cleaning a glazed oilstone. I’ve been apprehensive of using kerosene for such a purpose but have yet to find a better suggestion that didn’t offer the same hazards as kerosene ! would (fumes/storage issues/flammability: i.e. dry cleaning fluid) or that simply hadn’t really improved my situation i.e. rubbing two stones together or on sandpaper. My question: is kerosene a worthwhile consideration for cleaning stones? Any suggestions for how to clean stones that would involve less hazardous substances in regards to storage and fumes? Am I misguided in my assumption that a container of kerosene in the garage is just a hot Illinois summer day away from an insurance claim? Overall, I’m not a big fan of solvents and other type nasty chemical goodness but realize that sometimes that’s just what it takes. As a related note, I recently saw mention of kerosene+motor oil as a honing fluid. Part of my glazed stone problem is in that some were that way when I acquired them. Part of it is that I didn’t know any better when I was first starting out and have yet to effectively clear the stones of my initial ignorance. Any better suggestions for cheap and easy honing fluid? Soak the stone completely in oil or apply to surface when in use (or both)? I’m still feeling my way through sharpening and have tried waterstones, oilstones and straight sandpaper on a flat plate. Still not sure which I like best – seem to prefer one method over another depending on the item being sharpened. Not sure if that’s a product of better results or simply the mood I’m in at the time. Anyway, would appreciate any and all suggestions you can offer. Thanks, Andrew in Belleville, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158351 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-17 12:55:59 Subject: Spokeshaves Hello All, Our friend and member of the list, Kevin Brennan had a nice review of his spokeshaves in Canadian Woodworking. I posted the review here http://www.wkfinetools.com/MUTools/index.asp Thanks, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158352 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-17 13:50:24 Subject: FW: Spokeshaves Hello All, Our friend and member of the list, Kevin Brennan had a nice review of his spokeshaves in Canadian Woodworking. I posted the review here http://www.wkfinetools.com/MUTools/index.asp Thanks, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158353 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-17 16:03:42 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch On 17 Mar, 2006, at 12:58 PM, Steven Longley wrote: > An old problem - I’m having problems getting a > non-blotchy medium-dark brown stain on pine. > Now, here is the situation. The table and bench are > made from pine, ponderosa pine . > I'm deathly afraid of the dreaded "Pine Blotch." > > I’ve tried a couple of test boards – unfortunately not > ponderosa pine, which I would have to travel several > days to find, but on local Borg white pine, which > takes about 15 minutes to find. > > Test board one: 50/50-BLO/Turps (for natural grain > enhancement), followed by a spit coat of garnet > shellac (a bit of color & protection from the blotch), > then followed by two coats of General Finishes Gel > Stain Nutmeg Brown (which is the aimed for color). > Problem… not dark enough. > > Test board two: 50/50-BLO/Turps (again for natural > grain enhancement), followed by General Finishes Gel > Stain Nutmeg Brown. A bit darker, but it looks like > it needs another coat or two and I think that we will > be experiencing "grain obscurity rather" than > enhancement. Also, it looks like it could blotch > given the right circumstances. > Hello all - Some thoughts about Steve's plight: 1. Test one seems much like the dye/one lb. washcoat/stain approach touted in a recent FWW article. (I'm going to try it this weekend on some cherry test boards in prep for some kitchen cabinets). I guess the idea is that the shellac semi-seals the wood to prevent blotching. It seems to have worked, as evidenced by the more dense penetration on the second board, where the shellac was omitted. I would wager that you could keep building the stain color on the first board. Tape off a few sections and try more coats and colors. 2. Chris Minick recommends avoiding blotch (in cherry, however) by sealing with super-blond then adding color with coats of button lac. 3. One of the big, big names in woodfinishing has recently changed his tune concerning pre-stain conditioners. (I am about 99% sure about the name and the facts but I'm on the road at the moment and don't want to attribute an opinion to him without checking the source). He used to recommend using a conditioner per the label, which demands that the stain go on before the conditioner dries, and found the results to be iffy and inconsistent. This was my experience a few years ago when I used this method on some vertical-grain Douglas fir flooring, which I was trying to get to complement a heart pine floor I found under the carpet and a century of gunk. Anyway, he now suggest that better results can be obtain by letting the conditioner dry. The theory is that more of the stuff gets into the more absorbent wood, and by letting it dry it has a sealing effect. I think this is the point of the shellac washcoat. 4. I'm sure you were planning this, (but just in case) remember you have the ultimate test boards of Ponderosa pine; after your tests are done, try it on the underside of the bench or table. If it's a bust you can go back to square one, develop another recipe, and still have another underside to double-check on. Good luck and post some pictures. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158354 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-17 18:13:46 Subject: Re: bargain books In a message dated 3/17/2006 12:50:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlerdman@y... writes: [snip] I did much the same thing, dropping about $70. For anyone lacking Whelan's justly famous and authoratative wooden plane book, it was there in paperback for $10.95. John Wadsworth, now with a shop copy and a house copy, in Delhi, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158355 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-17 18:58:43 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench I seem to remember watching a TV show in Britain many years ago that identified the maker of the original Workmate as the Lotus car company. I think they had a designer (maybe Colin Chapman?) come up with the idea because of a need for a portable work bench that could be used in the pit area to allow engines to be held whilst mechanics worked on them. Maybe just another urban legend? Any Brits out there who can corroborate or am I really that old! Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158356 ---- From: "Anne Watson" Date: 2006-03-17 13:33:52 Subject: Re: Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening Being cheap and having lots of cement surfaces, I cleaned up an old oilstones using the floor of my carport, with a mix of liquid dishsoap and water. Rub it in circles til flat. Did not ruin the cement floor and sure flattened the oilstone. Once it was flat (one side only) I rinsed it well and let it dry. Now it is back living in a wooden box and gets coated with honing oil while useing. Worked for me. Any suggestions for how to clean stones that would involve less hazardous substances in regards to storage and fumes? . > > As a related note, I recently saw mention of kerosene+motor oil as a honing fluid. Part of my glazed stone problem is in that some were that way when I acquired them. Part of it is that I didn't know any better when I was first starting out and have yet to effectively clear the stones of my initial ignorance. Any better suggestions for cheap and easy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158357 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-17 18:36:37 Subject: Re: Handsaw Sharpening QuestionRe: Bill asks: >In his video Tom Law recommends gun sight black to make the teeth and the >jointed surface more visible. I can't find this product locally. Does >anyone >have any other ideas? I am trying Dykem Layout fluid, but that stuff can be >a pain to get off. I use 1. A match 2. A tealight candle Light #1 apply it to #2, and when the flame gets going hold the saw teeth over the flame. The soot comes off on the first board you saw. If I haven't shaped the teeth before I sharpen, I can usually tell the difference between the old surface and the new shiny filed surface. Also, carefully locate a light over the saw so that it reflects from the jointed flats right into your eyes. Really helps. Walt Cheever ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158358 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-17 18:52:07 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy A Collins" > > The problem with using a door for a bench top (for me) was finding a > cheap > door. If there is a "habitat for humanity" building supply recycling > store > in your town, then check them out. > > The workmate needs a bunch of weight on it to keep from dancing > around. > Don't use a 5 gallon bucket full of water, it will fall off. You might also try putting a little weight on top (although it tends to make the workmate a little top heavy). A few pieces of 3/4" x 2" maple like this might help. http://tinyurl.com/qzrmr Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158359 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-17 17:46:27 Subject: Re: Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening Hey Anne Did you notice how clean the carport floor got in the process?? I try to look for a secondary bird to get with the same "stone" :-) yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158360 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-17 18:05:14 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Steve I think you're on the right track Experimenting some that is. After a bit of this I think you should just go for it. You're probably there already. Some unevenness should not only be expected but welcomed! Unless you were trying to reproduce formica or vinyl paneling by using well aged family heirloom pine? It's wood. Wood isn't -supposed- to be the same color all over. The furniture factories need a mostly opaque stain to paste up their products so fairies will buy it "to matchy" for their decorator clients, and nobody involved has likely ever seen wood the way it comes. Amalgamated paste. Personally, I want real wood in my life when I can get it. There is no shame at all in genuine solid pine. Nothing that deserves to be hidden. yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158361 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-17 21:57:46 Subject: Bench I took the advice of many galoots and nailed a 2x10 to the bottom of my bench. THen put 150 lbs of weights on the board. No more traveling bench. Also no more sore elbow from planing. I planed on the oak for my new bench and got 2 legs now. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158362 ---- From: "john" Date: 2006-03-17 18:17:07 Subject: RE: Workmate Bench Dear Luis and other GGs, All this workbench talk reminded me of Bob and Dave Key's Good, Fast and Cheap bench. You can see it at: http://web.archive.org/web/20041126023648/http://www.terraclavis.com/bws /beginners.htm. The problem with this site is that you can't bring up the pictures, but the bench plans are there. (Maybe someone else can point toward a better address.) I concur with others who have warned you about the Workmate. A good tool but not for planing or most hand-tool activities. I know you mentioned space considerations and I think you could adapt the plan the Good, Cheap bench to fit. There seem to be twin problems in getting into this handtool thing. One, is that you definitely need a solid platform to work on and two, it's hard to construct a decent bench if you don't have a bench to work on. I think the Good, Fast, Cheap bench is probably a good one to start with. Maybe someone with firsthand experience can chime in. John Quinn Santa Rosa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy A Collins" > > The problem with using a door for a bench top (for me) was finding a > cheap > door. If there is a "habitat for humanity" building supply recycling > store > in your town, then check them out. > > The workmate needs a bunch of weight on it to keep from dancing > around. > Don't use a 5 gallon bucket full of water, it will fall off. You might also try putting a little weight on top (although it tends to make the workmate a little top heavy). A few pieces of 3/4" x 2" maple like this might help. http://tinyurl.com/qzrmr Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158363 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-17 18:48:12 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch I'm with Scott on this (Most other things too, I guess.)-- > Personally, I want real wood in my life when I can get it. There is no >shame at all in genuine solid pine. Nothing that deserves to be hidden. I have an example of blotchy pine within easy reach of my keyboard. It's a file cabinet, and was one of my very first galoot projects, wherein I made my first (half-blind) dovetails, with an oak top and pine everything else. For some reason, I felt compelled to stain it, and it turned an ugly, blotchy green. I sanded it off as best as I could and gave it a linseed oil and beewax finish. The drawer fronts still have signs of the stain, in streaks and hazy looking patches. Nobody seems to care--at least it's real wood, well made and functional. Pine has its limitations, but they are also it's character. You need to expect dents and blotches, and allow for thicker joints and structural members. That doesn't bother me. Umm, so I guess my pitch is to just go for a natural color and don't worry about it. PK "Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158364 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-17 22:50:26 Subject: Re: bargain books Help! I can't find it. Give me a full title, or where to find it on the site, or something. J~ I did much the same thing, dropping about $70. For anyone lacking Whelan's justly famous and authoratative wooden plane book, it was there in paperback for $10.95. John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158365 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-17 20:55:44 Subject: RE: Workmate Bench The whole bench is converted to PDF file and available in the Storage Bin on www.OldToolsShop.com Direct link is http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/shopImprov/BobAndDavesGoodFastAndCheapBenc h-ne.pdf Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of john > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 7:17 PM > To: dilloworks@s...; oldtools@r... > Subject: RE: [OldTools] Workmate Bench > > Dear Luis and other GGs, > > All this workbench talk reminded me of Bob and Dave > Key's Good, Fast and Cheap bench. You can see it at: > http://web.archive.org/web/20041126023648/http://www.terraclav > is.com/bws > /beginners.htm. The problem with this site is that you can't > bring up the pictures, but the bench plans are there. (Maybe > someone else can point toward a better address.) > I concur with others who have warned you about the > Workmate. A good tool but not for planing or most hand-tool > activities. I know you mentioned space considerations and I > think you could adapt the plan the Good, Cheap bench to fit. > There seem to be twin problems in getting into this > handtool thing. One, is that you definitely need a solid > platform to work on and two, it's hard to construct a decent > bench if you don't have a bench to work on. > I think the Good, Fast, Cheap bench is probably a good > one to start with. Maybe someone with firsthand experience > can chime in. > > John Quinn > Santa Rosa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Timothy A Collins" > > > > The problem with using a door for a bench top (for me) was > finding a > > cheap door. If there is a "habitat for humanity" building supply > > recycling store in your town, then check them out. > > > > The workmate needs a bunch of weight on it to keep from dancing > > around. > > Don't use a 5 gallon bucket full of water, it will fall off. > > You might also try putting a little weight on top (although > it tends to make the workmate a little top heavy). A few > pieces of 3/4" x 2" maple like this might help. > > http://tinyurl.com/qzrmr > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158366 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-18 13:55:25 Subject: Re: bargain books JTWad@a... wrote: > I did much the same thing, dropping about $70. For anyone lacking > Whelan's justly famous and authoratative wooden plane book, it was > there in paperback for $10.95. > > John Wadsworth, now with a shop copy and a house copy, in Delhi, NY > And I would have, but darn it, they don't ship books outside of the US. -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158367 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-17 22:13:08 Subject: Back Saws Galoots: In case you missed it. . . . there is a very good article on Back Saws in the latest issue of Woodsmith,Vol.28/ No. 164. The two page article explains the vast difference in the construction of back saws and the very good reason both the Adria and L:ie-Nielsen saws are a bit more expensive. You pay for quality and you get quality. We keep on learning don't we? Regards, Huck >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand >> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, value, location, availability, >> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, >> especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand >> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, value, location, availability, >> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, >> especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158368 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-17 22:13:08 Subject: Back Saws Galoots: In case you missed it. . . . there is a very good article on Back Saws in the latest issue of Woodsmith,Vol.28/ No. 164. The two page article explains the vast difference in the construction of back saws and the very good reason both the Adria and L:ie-Nielsen saws are a bit more expensive. You pay for quality and you get quality. We keep on learning don't we? Regards, Huck >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand >> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, value, location, availability, >> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, >> especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand >> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, value, location, availability, >> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, >> especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158369 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-18 00:31:34 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Phil and Debbie Koontz wrote: > For some reason, I felt compelled to stain it, and it turned an ugly, > blotchy green. I sanded it off as best as I could and gave it a > linseed oil and beewax finish. The drawer fronts still have signs of > the stain, in streaks and hazy looking patches. Nobody seems to > care--at least it's real wood, well made and functional. Pine has its > limitations, but they are also it's character. You need to expect > dents and blotches, and allow for thicker joints and structural > members. That doesn't bother me. > > Umm, so I guess my pitch is to just go for a natural color and don't > worry about it. > > PK > "Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you." > > Thinking about blotchy green stain: Short Version: Boy did I turn some wood green.... Long Version: While working on the world's second ugliest saw till (don't want to think that I have peaked yet..), I decided to 'create' a batch of green wood stain. Some dark green Ritz fabric dye was added to a pint of warm water and, instant green dye. This was way too easy, so I added some more of the dye. (Loop until is it way to dark, then add a pinch more.) After applying the first coat of dye, it looked a little light. (See also the repetitive loop of adding dye to water.) Another couple of coats followed. Returning after a mug of coffee, I was amazed to see that I had discovered a recipe for faux Wolmanizing! (a truly ugly shade of green on pressure treated lumber, Jeff). Worse yet, when I touched the scabby fourth hand, faux Wolmanized plywood, green rubbed off on my hand. In an effort to correct this misadventure, and retain all of the wonderful green-ness, I slopped on a couple coats of BLO and turps. So much for the faux Wolmanizing, it now looks somewhere between week old sea weed and inky blots on a shirt pocket. At least now, less of the green is transferred when you touch the wood. (I am on a roll here...) The only rational solution was to protect the "creation" with some shellac. Rooting through the paint locker turned up a can of just about expired Amber Bullseye Shellac: Perfect for this project. As always, shellac performed wonders - The inky blackness has receded a bit, now it just looks like the finish on '70s vintage barrel furniture. I can not wait to see what a couple of more coats of shellac will do for this fabulous finish. I will save the best for when pictures of the world's second ugliest saw till are posted on Galoot Image Central in a couple of days. Tim Even the Leprechauns are wearing mittens tonight in nippy NJ. p.s. - The plywood began as a shop project by a younger brother in High School. 20 years later it was trimmed and became shelving under one of my Dad's work benches. Next it served as a ramp for moving motorcycles and snow blowers into the back of a pickup truck. If the Smithsonian does not grab the saw till for posterity, I wonder what will happen to the plywood next? :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158370 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-17 22:49:16 Subject: Toolmaker of the Month - April I would like to open nomination period for Toolmaker of the Month for April, 2006. I would like it to be closed and selected by 03/24/2006. The reason is, that I need a bit of time to get things prepared, contact the nominee, get some photos, etc. Please start submitting your suggestions. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158371 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-17 21:56:55 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Just a bit more on wood coloring, if it's ok I cannot beat the real natural color of wood. Can't mix a stain, paint a color, not even colored shellac, dye or whatever. I simply can't get the subtle varying shades and deep genuine colors of any kind of wood. Can't do it There are many times I have tried stains and such trying to improve a color or match something else. Every -single - solitary - time, I have failed. Every time, bar none. You'd think I'd learn. Even when I was generally pleased with the project, as time went on, the pastiness of the color made it less important than it could have been. Other projects, of lesser work and lesser importance initially, took on a more endeared place in my life. Here I am in my little living room. I'm looking at Kitty's grandmothers desk. Corrine Whittemore (her name) got it as a premium for selling Watkins products door to door when she was a teenager (marked on the underside). Watkins is still in business as a spice and extract company, I think, but their line also included patent (quack) medicines around the turn of the century. This is a small late Victorian drop front ladies desk on tall thin curved legs. It's quartered white oak veneer panels with solid wo framing and legs. Common style of the day. This desk has survived at least one flood and one house fire that I know of for sure. When we inherited it, it was covered in the latest of "antiquing" pseudo graining over a blech background of pasty paint. Under this was another 3 or 5 assorted colors of paint. Well, the minute it was secure in our basement, the both of us set to and stripped all the old paint. No chemicals, we did it all with scrapers as a team. The applied machine carving included. Cleaned it right to the veneer and if we screwed up and had to repair the veneer, it doesn't show and I can't remember it. Then, like a pair of maroons, we proceeded to slather it with extracto de asphaltum also known as walnut stain. Several coats of hand rubbed finish went over this. It looked fine and we were proud of it. Had it ever since. Meanwhile, less than 4 feet away from it sits a small box on a sideboard. It's a plain poker box from the same early turn o century period. A chestnut box lined with tin on top to hold cigars and a poker chip drawer below. This one arrived covered in the remains of old paint too. This one was skinned in 10 minutes flat with it's plain flat surfaces and simply oiled a couple coats and then shellaced to within an inch of it's life. When strangers first come into the room, do they walk right over and notice/admire the delicate sand cast brass seashell hardware on the white oak desk??? Open it right up to check out the letter pidgenholes and drawers inside? Never happens. The plain dumb cigar box draws their attention everytime. It looks real, the desk looks suspect in it's muddy single dark color. I firmly believe had we simply oiled and finished out the white oak, -it- would have been the centerpiece of the room instead. Doh !!!!!!!!!!! You can't beat wood. That's why we work it. Paint will never be the same. yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158372 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-18 08:25:07 Subject: RE: The Tool Tote : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Robert : Weber : Sent: 17 March 2006 18:43 : To: Galoots : Subject: [OldTools] The Tool Tote : : ...............Then I noticed that I marked and cut the pins backwards in one of : the ends. : : ........................................................ Last night I went to assemble the sides : to mark out : the bottom when I noticed that I HAD PLOWED THE GROOVE ON THE : OUTSIDE OF THE : ENDS, not the inside. And the moral of these tales is look to yer face marks! I suggest a look at my web site - Marking Out Notes - Using Face Side and Face Edge Marks. Jeff, with commiserations. -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158373 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-18 08:25:07 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Anthony Seo : Sent: 17 March 2006 17:35 : To: John Edwards; Old Tool List : Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes : : Now first let review the RULE regarding planes and hammers. Wood on : wood and metal on metal. If you are striking the body to remove the : wedge or setting the wedge ALWAYS use a wooden mallet. I don't give : a good snot about what others have written because that is a good way : to damage a plane. If you follow this rule, take care to use a mallet with a good convex face. I've seen a lot of damage to workpieces from people who've used the well-worn face of a mallet which being concave means that one or other of the corners will dent the wood. Since setting a wooden jack plane, for example, involves tapping the body of the plane, the iron and the wedge in rapid sequence, implementing Anthony's rule would, for me at least, be very tiresome. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158374 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-18 08:25:07 Subject: RE: Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of : bouland@g... : Sent: 17 March 2006 20:02 : To: oldtools@r... : Subject: [OldTools] Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening : : Any better suggestions for cheap and easy honing fluid? Soak : the stone completely in oil or apply to surface when in use (or both)? Please try my web site - Sharpening Notes - Honing Fluids and take your pick of what is readily available. If a stone has been glazed through the use of linseed or other drying oil, I wonder whether paint stripper might help? Can hardly do any harm? Other possibilities are the oven or the dish washer. Negotiate beforehand! Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158375 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-18 05:26:37 Subject: Workmate Bench GG's Having both an old (thirty plus years) Workmutt and a somewhat flimsy and too light "real" bench I would go for the Mutt. If the pieces you are planeing are short enough you can put one end against a wall which makes it much more stable. If you have longer stock then put something against the wall to brace against. My reason for going with the WM is that it will be much nicer to have when you build your real bench as there a ton of uses for the Mutt and its easy to get out of the way. The second is that having a mediocre bench takes some of the urge away from making a good one. It gets the job done even though you know that things could be much better. Steve Who thinks he has found a source of cheap 2X4X8 white oak. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158376 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-18 05:32:20 Subject: Hammer Question I picked up a couple of odd hammers from the local flea and can't quite figure out what they were used for. One, I am pretty sure is a type of sawmakers hammer but the other is an oddly shaped claw type. Sorry no pic's as my wife's camera has some sort of crisis. Any one know of a web source that might help identify these? Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158377 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-18 05:58:24 Subject: Wooden Rabbet/Metal Shoulder Plane GG`s, As I attempt to begin the learning curve of the wooden molding planes some questions seem to beg opinions. In practice what is the difference between using a wooden rabbet (rebate, Jeff) and a British infill shoulder plane ? Is one better at a specific task then another ? Is a skewed woodie rabbet for cross grain only ? Long grain is better handled with a straight iron ? Any insight would be highly regarded as this seems to be a murky area. John Edwards In a dark (for now) but later sunny and 30`s New Baltimore, Mi. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158378 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-18 07:47:29 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Am I missing something here? Correct me if I am because I have found blotch an easy problem to eradicate. When I started working with pine I stained it, got awful blotches. A book told me to apply a stain conditioner or boiled linseed oil, let it sit 5-10 minutes and then apply the stain. I ran a test with no conditioner, minwax stain conditioner and BLO. The absence of conditioner was a nightmare. Conditioner worked like a charm, BLO also worked but the stain was too light for my liking. I have never gotten blotch again. Nathaniel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158379 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-18 09:06:23 Subject: Re: bargain books To all who tried to find the Whelan wooden plane book on the Hamilton website after my post yesterday-- Sorry, but they seem to have sold out. If you go to their home page, click on "power search," and enter "Astragal" in the publisher box (from the pop-up list), you'll see all the remaining Astragal Press books they have (which do include, inter alia, that beautiful wooden plow plane book of Don Rosebrook's--reduced from $74 to $14.95--and the most recent edition of the Pollaks' American Wooden Planes--reduced from $39.95 to $8.95). Get 'em while they got 'em-- John Wadsworth, unpaid book shill in Delhi, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158380 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-18 06:18:52 Subject: Re: The Tool Tote At 10:43 AM 3/17/2006, you wrote: >The plan was to dovetail the sides >together, make one long side shorter than the other so the bottom could >extend past the side and support a saw, a la the above posted link. Hi Rob, I'm flattered that anyone would consider my work "inspiring". Thank You. Let's just say photos are forgiving. FYI, the saw holder on my box is just a grooved strip that's screwed to the side of the box, not an overhanging bottom panel. Don't feel bad about the layout errors. For some reason I get more than my share when doing dovetails as well. I guess I'm so focused in the cutting and fitting I forget to pay attention to part orientation. The one I mentioned in my post about the tote was at least fixable. A while back I was making a small walnut domino box for a friend. It was sized to fit a set of neatly stacked tiles and couldn't get any smaller. Well on the last corner I put it together and had this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Woopppsss.jpg I guess I need to print that one and hang it over the bench.... Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158381 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-18 09:27:46 Subject: Galoot Logo Why is he left handed? Also what is the etiquette with using the logo on personal web sites etc. Thanks Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158382 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-18 09:01:42 Subject: Re: Hammer Question Steve, Check your copy of "The Hammer" (by the late Ron Baird and Dan Comerford). Every galoot does have a copy of this, I hope. Unfortunately, I don't know of a current source for this book - unless you can find one on the internet. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Lineback" To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 4:32 AM Subject: [OldTools] Hammer Question >I picked up a couple of odd hammers from the local flea and can't quite >figure out what they were used for. One, I am pretty sure is a type of >sawmakers hammer but the other is an oddly shaped claw type. Sorry no >pic's as my wife's camera has some sort of crisis. > Any one know of a web source that might help identify these? > Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158383 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-18 09:03:20 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo And why does he look so young!! Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hyde" To: "Old Tools List" Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: [OldTools] Galoot Logo > Why is he left handed? Also what is the etiquette with using the logo > on personal web sites etc. > Thanks > Peter > I have moved to: > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158384 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-18 09:19:46 Subject: Re: Hammer Question My apologies. I just did a web search for this book and only found one copy - for $395.00. It is a very handy paperback that I have used often, but I wouldn't pay that for another copy! Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hammer Question > Steve, > > Check your copy of "The Hammer" (by the late Ron Baird and Dan > Comerford). Every galoot does have a copy of this, I hope. > Unfortunately, I don't know of a current source for this book - unless > you can find one on the internet. > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Lineback" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 4:32 AM > Subject: [OldTools] Hammer Question > > >>I picked up a couple of odd hammers from the local flea and can't >>quite figure out what they were used for. One, I am pretty sure is a >>type of sawmakers hammer but the other is an oddly shaped claw type. >>Sorry no pic's as my wife's camera has some sort of crisis. >> Any one know of a web source that might help identify these? >> Steve > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158385 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-18 10:39:22 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Peter asks about the galoot logo - > Why is he left handed? Dunno. You would have to ask Brent Parkin, who originated the muscular image many years ago. Sadly, Brent has been MIA for a long time. > Also what is the etiquette with using the logo Brent gave permission to use it at will without compensation or attribution. As far as I know, it has been limited to not-for-profit use. I probably pushed it to widespread use when it became the basis for the bumper stickers and t-shirts. The sticker image is what you see on most galoot-related web sites; some use the image side only. Anyone can save the small images from a site; I have larger jpeg artwork the printer used if anyone wants it. Oh yeah, let's not forget Rob Brophy's more "realistic" alternative version. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/rBrophy/web/galoot.html Dennis "anyone interested in bumper stickers" Heyza Macomb, MI ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158386 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-18 11:00:07 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Dennis, I kinda like this one, if it could just be switched to right handed. http://tinyurl.com/qdau9 Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Heyza" > > Oh yeah, let's not forget Rob Brophy's more "realistic" alternative > version. > > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/rBrophy/web/galoot.html > > Dennis "anyone interested in bumper stickers" Heyza > Macomb, MI ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158387 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-18 12:19:07 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Being a left handed galoot I like the left handed logo...however, given the majority is right handed...what about having both? Galoots can get t-shirts/bumper stickers with the one they want. I'd love to have a t-shirt with the galoot logo! Wendy On Saturday 18 March 2006 12:00 pm, dilloworks@s... wrote: > Dennis, > > I kinda like this one, if it could just be switched to right handed. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158388 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-18 10:33:58 Subject: RE: Hammer Question Talking about Hammers... Bob Sturgeon submitted very well designed and illustrated article on restoring hammers. I posted it this morning. http://www.wkfinetools.com/restore/hammers/hammerTut1.asp Have fun. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > > My apologies. I just did a web search for this book and only > found one copy - for $395.00. It is a very handy paperback > that I have used often, but I wouldn't pay that for another copy! > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158389 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-03-18 12:22:33 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo What's wrong with Left-Handed! Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: > To: Old Tools List > Date: 3/18/2006 11:59:59 AM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Galoot Logo > > Dennis, > > I kinda like this one, if it could just be switched to right handed. > > http://tinyurl.com/qdau9 > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Heyza" > > > > Oh yeah, let's not forget Rob Brophy's more "realistic" alternative > > version. > > > > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/rBrophy/web/galoot.html > > > > Dennis "anyone interested in bumper stickers" Heyza > > Macomb, MI > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158390 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-18 13:33:59 Subject: kerosene Galoots, Here follows a parable: I always knew gasoline is incredibly dangerous and should never be used for ANYTHING but a motor fuel. But I used to think kerosene was about as safe as water because of its low volatility and fairly high flashpoint. (After all, it's used as a naked flame lantern fuel with just a simple wick). WRONG! When I was in my 20's I lived in an old mountain house with a wood cookstove. My neighbors often started their fires with kerosene so i figured that was fine for a neuvo pseudo mountain man as well. One day the fire had about burned out in the cookstove. I put in some slivers of kindling and splashed in some kero, thinking to restart it quickly. OH yeah. It was quick all right! I was just about to lean down to light it off with a match when a big fireball shot out of the stove with a WHOOF and engulfed my head! It was about as bright as a flashbulb going off. My wife screamed and I shouted and staggered backward half-blinded and prepared to die a horrible death. Then I realized that I wasn't hurt. The fireball flashed so briefly that all I lost was the ends of some beard and eyebrows singed off. But I never put kerosene on anything hot again. Never. As the old folks say, "A [nearly] burnt child fears fire!" Phil E. Asheville, NC where everything is a' blooming ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158391 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-18 19:01:46 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench Dear Galoots, Thank you all once again for your kind emails. I bought the Workmate last evening and gave it some use for a few hours. So far I'm quite pleased with it, and it meets my expectations. The structure is solid enought for light dutty work and even planing some small boards was quite ok. I find the MDF top is too small and thin and I'll make a new one in the near future. I may do it a bit longer and the board in the back will be at least twice as wide. It will also be thicker, maybe 2" thick, who knows.... Take care, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158392 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-18 14:28:09 Subject: Honing Fluid I once had a job at a summer camp teaching kids who didn't want to learn how to be Boy Scouts. It wasn't an official Boy Scout camp but they had a Boy Scout class. It was an expensive military academy. One of the towns drug stores had Soldier of Fortune magazines. (It was small boring town. I chopped wood or read a lot) One issue had an article on how to sharpen knives. "Any fool can sharpen a knife but only a good one can put an edge on that lasts more than two weeks." The author siad he used lighter fluid. He said it worked better than honing oil. My roomate in college and I used to use it on our knives, got some weird stares while doing it in the dorm's hamburger shop. It worked pretty good. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158393 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-18 19:50:11 Subject: Flea market findings - Info needed Dear list members, This morning I took a trip to the local fleat market and found this good looking wooden jack plane: http://leica.lxphotos.com/tools/burys_1.jpg http://leica.lxphotos.com/tools/burys_2.jpg The plane is 12" long and the iron is 1 7/8" wide with the name "Burys & Co" embossed on the top end. The same name is on the chipbreaker along with "Sheffield". The bevel on the iron has an angle of only 23 degrees, do you think I should make it 25 or even 30 degrees when I sharpen it? I've searched the web and couldn't find any information about it, does anyone have any further information about this? As you can see from the photos, it is in very good condition, with just some small spots of rust on the iron and chipbreaker, mostly in the gap between the two. In the end I paid 30 Euro for it, do you think it was worth it? Thank you, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158394 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-18 15:03:24 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Through the magic of Photoshop, and the kind hosting of Galoot Image Central, Right Handed Galoot logos: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3672 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3673 Tim It is still nippy at night in NJ. Brian McInturff wrote: >What's wrong with Left-Handed! > >Brian McInturff >philatelist@e... > > > > >>[Original Message] >>From: >>To: Old Tools List >>Date: 3/18/2006 11:59:59 AM >>Subject: Re: [OldTools] Galoot Logo >> >>Dennis, >> >>I kinda like this one, if it could just be switched to right handed. >> >>http://tinyurl.com/qdau9 >> >>Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Dennis Heyza" >> >> >>>Oh yeah, let's not forget Rob Brophy's more "realistic" alternative >>>version. >>> >>>http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/rBrophy/web/galoot.html >>> >>>Dennis "anyone interested in bumper stickers" Heyza >>>Macomb, MI >>> >>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158395 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-18 14:08:19 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Brian, Nothing wrong with being left-handed, but I'm not. (I do, however, have two sons and a grandson [named Brian] who are left-handed.) I even let them into the shop occasionally. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian McInturff" > What's wrong with Left-Handed! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158396 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-18 12:16:52 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch On 17 Mar 2006 at 18:48, Phil and Debbie Koontz wrote: > I'm with Scott on this (Most other things too, I guess.)-- > > > Personally, I want real wood in my life when I can get it. There is no > >shame at all in genuine solid pine. Nothing that deserves to be hidden. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~shave~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Umm, so I guess my pitch is to just go for a natural color and don't worry > about it. > I agree, however, I have found that an oil based stain following a conditioner can give a rather nice, aged look to pine. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158397 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-18 15:18:26 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo - Bumper Sticker Yes, I'd be very interested in obtaining a Galoot Logo Bumper Sticker....either right or left handed (I had to stop and picture which way I hold the plane). Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158398 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-18 15:36:01 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Regarding the galoot logo Wendy comments - > Being a left handed galoot I like the left handed logo...however, given the > majority is right handed...what about having both? Galoots can get > t-shirts/bumper stickers with the one they want. I'd love to have a t-shirt > with the galoot logo! Well Wendy, I hate throw water on your fire, but - There are art charges (stickers), silk screen charges (shirts), printing charges and more. Now you are duplicating those costs through multiple designs. Add in your time to design, meet with printer, pick up, pack, and ship. Then there is quantity pricing. IIRC when I did the blue on gray shirts in 1998 the cost to do one shirt would have been something like $125 including silk-screen, set ups, etc. but the cost for hundreds (about 600 I think) was $5.50, which is exactly what I charged (you don't mind working for free, do you?). The bumper stickers worked the same (try having just ONE printed). Can everyone have what they want? You bet. For a price. ;^) OTOH if you work for a company that is buying about 5000 shirts at one time, and you happen to be the person signing the purchase order, you MIGHT con them into producing 20 shirts for nothing more than the silk screen charge (which is how the #1 black-on-gray galoot shirts got made). But that's another story... Just say (tmPL) the idea is great but the execution is hell. Dennis - wondering how many Type 1 shirts still exist ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158399 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-18 15:56:04 Subject: Workmate History Peter The history of the Workmate is the very last chapter in Scott Landis's "The Workbench Book". It was invented by a guy named Ron Hickman who was a designer for Lotus. His inspiration came from sawing into a Windsor chair using a pair of chairs to hold up a door to use as a bench doing a remodeling project. Its really a pretty interesting story. Steve Who has never done anything dumb like that. No sir not me, never happens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158400 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-18 16:06:26 Subject: Wooder Rabbet/Metal Shoulder Plane About three hundred buck at LFOD last weekend. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158401 ---- From: Darrell & Kathy Date: 2006-03-18 16:21:59 Subject: I made something weird. Again. Oh the insanity! Lee Valley Tools recently started carrying some new pen kits and pen blanks. My daughter saw the black & yellow acetate in the catalog, and she wanted a pen made of the stuff. And my son wanted the black & blue acetate. Kathy wanted to try the black & bronze. Me? I like wood, and I have lots of interesting wood, so I just ordered a few pen kits for myself, plus their strange stuff. First one we tried was Michelle's yellow acetate pen. Kathy emailed our friend Jim (who makes a LOT of pens) and asked if he had any warnings/hints/advice regarding this acetate stuff. He replied at length, very helpful, thanks loads Jim! Michelle cranked the post drill (made by A. B. Jardine, in Hespeler Ontario) for 20 minutes to bore out the holes in the blanks. I had the drill set on low speed, which for her was about 30 rpm but practically infinite torque, what with the gear reduction and all. She took a turn at the lathe too. Had to stand on a step stool to reach, but she did a fine job. She saved pretty much all the shavings and offcuts from her pen, a whole box of the stuff. The pen polished up nicely and looks very cool. David's pen was next. He's old enough that he could handle most of the work himself, but he had me do the initial rounding off of the blanks, and the final pass with the skew. He has to get some more practice in with that tool. Hmmm, Mother's day is coming up in the not-so-distant-future, maybe a candle holder...? Anyways, we made one mistake on his pen. I had shortened up the mandrel so it would take only half a pen, which makes for a much stiffer blank, and better turning experience for the youngsters (vibration is the bane of most turning). We ended up with the wrong bushing at one end of the long section. Luckily, it was too big rather than too small, so he remounted and re-turned that part. Good save. His pen turned out really well, the colours (colors, Paddy) are quite striking. And then the insanity started. Kathy jokingly suggested that I try making a solid pewter pen, instead of just casting a pewter ring on one, like the first pen I made. Ha Ha, yes, very funny. Hmmm... maybe I could - No, no, it would never work. Yah but if I - Nah, can't be done. Well, if I could do it like this? Possibly, or maybe... *light goes on* Yes, that would work! I figured I could bore a hole in a piece of scrap with, say, a #10 Rockford Bit Co auger and a Yankee brace, then mount the brass tube on a piece of dowel that runs down the very (or as close to very as I can get) centre of the hole, I could pour in the pewter and cast a roundish blank for the pen. So whilst David was busy with his Blue Pen, I set up the casting furnace (camp stove, picked up off the curb last spring; gotta love free stuff! :^) and started messing about with molten metal. The blank for the lower end of then pen came out OK. I had to ream a bit of seepage from inside the brass tube and there were a lot of small voids in the casting. And one big void where a small bit of wood left in the bottom of the mold had floated up into the melt. Most of that one turned off OK. The shavings off the lathe were like silver brillo. I was using old carbon steel turning chisels, not even that newfangled HSS stuff, and the pewter turned easily. The blank polished up real nice. I mounted the working parts et voila! it is half a pen. Then I got out a few pens and tried the tops of them on the new one, thinking that an all-pewter pen would be kinda heavy. But alas, none of the woods looked good against the pewter. So I decided to go for a pewter top anyways. That's gonna be one HEAVY pen! I set up the same as before, melted the pewter (part of a pewter plate from Birks, acquired from a garage sale for $1) and poured. After putting everything away and letting the casting cool a while I noticed that the end of the dowel was askew. Uh Oh. When I split open the form I found that the dowel & tube had come loose and tipped over, ruining the casting. Surprise! Wood floats in molten tin! Duh, of course it does. OK, next time I will wire the wood in SOLIDLY. Um, *if* I can salvage the brass tube... Well, that was enough for one night. -- temporal discontinuity -- Back in the shop again, and this time I made sure the brass tube could not move during the pour. Some work with a propane torch had the pewter dripping off the brass tube and I was soon back in business. The second piece (the top of the pen) came out exactly like the first, a lot of little bubbles scattered about but otherwise fine. Pewter turns easily, and makes such cool shavings. And there's no grain to worry about. Finally, I assembled the pen and wrote "It is good" on a scrap of paper. And so it was. I doubt I will be carrying this one in my shirt pocket, it's too heavy. I guess I will have to start wearing a jacket to work now. Or a holster for the Heavy Pen. Betcha that's one writing instrument that'll get attention at an airport security check. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3811.JPG http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3816.JPG It ain't wood, but I used old woodworkin' tools to make it! Oldtool Haiku: Drawknife and spokeshave, square to round in just seconds. Whittling chair spindles. -- Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158402 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-03-19 00:06:49 Subject: Nothing special but still enjoying. Hello All, I hope everybody is in good shape today i didn't post something for the past 2 weeks but have been lurking the porch everyday. I have been busy the last 2 weeks and got caught the flu this week. In between the hard work at school and at home i found some time to work further on my krenov style plane. I posted some pictures at: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=268&page=1 It is still not ready but it functions and remarkable it works better than my #4 and allmost the same as my spiers plane. When i have finished the plane it will be given to my son Melchior (9) It will be his first woodie plane to play with. It will go nice with his miniature workbench i've built for him last year. And sadly for him is used in my Workshop bedroom to clamp on a door from a restoration project i'am working on. But when it is finished i'll take home some nice cut offs from school so that he can built himself something. He likes to shave with my violin planes but he used to like most the hammer and the nails. The only problem is with hammering nails on a concrete floor is the dammmmmmmmnnnn noise. So we where both wearing our ear protection during his hammering work. It is difficult to do some fine restoration work like polishing or small veneer repair work so when i had enough of the hammering i said Melchior daddy has to do some very difficult work, can you take a drink downstairs with SWMBO? I also placed a small shed in the garden 2 weeks ago in the weekend it was the old one of my neighbour who moved away and sold the shed to me. It is 3mx3m and is going to be used for the bikes and gardening tools and i want to put in a small workbench at an comfortable height 105 cm and not to big just to use it for some bike repair work and i will put an vise on it so i can do some small metall work as well. The shed is like an logcabin with all the planks inserted to each other and on the roof are shingles from bitumen. The shed was really heavy we had to move it about 4 meters so we lifted the roof from it and i felt the weight of it in my wrists and back but i had to get the shed in my garden happily i got some help from brother in law, friend neighbour Dirk 2 houses next to ours and a friend of him and my mate from Amsterdam Bart. When this project is finished i'll post some pictures. It is a bit sad that i've got such a small garden 5M x 16m I think most people in the states who live rural have bigger gardens but mine will be cosy. I also made a beginning with the small drawers for my toolbox inspired by Roy Underhill, this project is also not ready yet but slowly evolves. Between all these things i was able to score an nice book from 1924 written by L.Zwiers called HOUTCONSTRUCTIES in English it will be Woodconstruction. And it is an beautifull book about wooden construction used in Homebuilding all the different types of roofs, doors , stairs you name it it is in it. I bought it through the internet private second hand marktet for 20 euro's ex. Postage costs. This book was on my list for some long long time but it was allways to expensive for me and i can call this one a sleeper... I am looking forward to queens day carboot sale in Amsterdam i hope the weather is fine and i will find some nice gadgets again i am also planning a small holliday to Czech republic to visit some friends i haven't seen for about 4 years but first have to figure out the costs from it. I hope to read more about the nice teethgrinding flea market finds on the porch in the next few weeks. And hope that everybody stays in good shape. Thannks for now and kind regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158403 ---- From: M P Smoak Date: 2006-03-18 18:35:36 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Friday 17 March 2006 01:01, Alan DuBoff wrote: > Looks to me like he's trying to find high/low spots to determine > where they need to plane/scrape. > I see that too, and looks to me like he's got something in the other hand. > Certainly looks like hard work, but I bet a planed floor feel great > to walk on, after putting a finish over the top of it. Yea, barefoot in the morning. Sher gave me a print of this years ago (from the National Gallery??). The .jpg file displays quite dark on my display. But changing brightness and gammma, I think its the same picture. Where did I put that print ... Marv in Lex Ky; may have found bench wood this week. Spring is here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158404 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-19 08:21:03 Subject: Re: adze Bad Andy wrote in part: Just wondering why people are so scared of using an adze. I saw St Roy use one a few times and he just raised it up a few inches or so and brought it down. He I think he rested his elbow on his knee and raised the adze by moving his knee up and down slightly. PeterH writes: I recently had to remove a lot of couch grass (bloody tuff stuff Jeff) from the joints between slabs (prior to poisoning). As an experiment, I chose my mattock for the task. Using a method not unlike that described by Andy, I found it was quick and efficient. The best part of using said method is the control you have over the swing. Very little chance, if any, of shortening your heigth. The word swing - in this context - is more like that of a clock pendulum and definitely not like that of a champion axeman. Now, I have never used an Adze, although I got a couple of nice ones stored away for an emergency, but having used the mattock for grass removal, it is easy to visualise how a good sharp adze, used correctly, would quickly remove green timber. PeterH in Perth Up at the new house shortly, to continue the dig of 100 metres of trench for stormwater pipe - using handtools! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158405 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-18 19:21:18 Subject: Danger! Danger Will Robinson! It dawns on me after reading and writing about the relative dangers of stuff that maybe we can learn something from all of our collective experiences. Virtually every tool we own and every chemical we use carries with it an unspoken understanding that if it is misused or mishandled we run the risk of injury or disaster. Take a wild swing with an axe or an adze and bad things can happen. Play with flammable stuff and you might get burned. Use caustic stuff and it might eat your skin or get in your eyes. Sniff enough fumes or inhale the wrong sawdust and you can get cancer of the lungs or of the nasal passages. Let that sharp blade get away from you and you can need stitches or a smaller shoe size. Let those hanging tools in the shop fall and heaven knows what havoc may be wrought! My point is that life contains hazards, but most of the time it is not the thing in question that gets us, it is we who get ourselves. We can screw up by being careless, uninformed, in a hurry or sometimes just really stupid! But life is most interesting when we are actively engaged. I carry a number of old scars and a few recent ones from making a mistake or getting careless, but I still like the adage--that which does not kill me makes me stronger! That does not mean we have a license to be stupid, but rather we learn by doing. And, in doing things we learn lessons all the time. Hopefully the lessons are positive ones, but sometimes we have to learn from our mistakes. But wouldn't life be boring if we were all perfect and logical and constantly vigilant all of the time? Woodworking is not brain surgery. Lives do not generally hang in the balance. Boy and Girl Galoots, be careful out there! But, let's keep having fun with this stuff! Cuts heal, eyebrows grow back and I have learned not stick metal things that don't belong in electrical outlets, although the latter has taken me many years to perfect. Paul in Normal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158406 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-18 20:31:19 Subject: Re: I made something weird. Again. On 18 Mar, 2006, at 4:21 PM, Darrell wrote: > Oh the insanity! > > Kathy jokingly suggested > that I try making a solid pewter pen, instead of just > casting a pewter ring on one, like the first pen I made. > Ha Ha, yes, very funny. Hmmm... maybe I could - > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3811.JPG > Darrell, that pewter pen is sweet! Very creative, and a nice homage to the classic pens to boot. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158407 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-03-18 21:17:08 Subject: Handle Replacement on a Workmate? Esteemed galoots, I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a second Workmate for some time now. Most of the time, they're priced a bit high around here ($50+), but I finally found one intact at a local estate sale yesterday for $14. Score! Well, in my haste to get it loaded and on my way back to the ol' Bat Cave (shop, jeff), I accidentally let one of the turning handles break off when my new Type 4 workmate slid around in the back of my trusty Nissan pickup. (Stupid, galoot. Stupid) http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/broken_workmate.jpg So, my question is, has anyone successfully replaced these handles and, if so, would they be so kind as to offer up some detailed pictures of the result? -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158408 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-18 22:45:20 Subject: How to Rehandle and Repair that Old Hammer Galoots: Since there has been quite a bit of discussion on the List lately on the subject of Old Hammers, this coincided just right with a new tutorial I had been working on recently. Got it finished this past weekend and sent it off to Wiktor to post on his site. "How to Rehandle and Repair that Old Hammer". Part one deals with the removal of the old hammer handle and the step by step installation of a new handle. Part two deals with different repairs that are necessary to put an old hammer that would otherwise make a good collectible or user, if only the head were tighten up, the nick in the claws were fixed, the paint on the handle was removed or the nails someone put in for wedges were removed and repaired. I hope this will be a help to lot of you out there that maybe thought it too difficult to undertake. Just remember, a bench drawer full of old hammer heads only adds up to a bunch of old iron, but take the time and put handles in them and now you have more tools in you collection. And Lord knows we all like that. Check it out at: www.wkfinetools.com/restore/hammers/hammerTut1.asp Always diggin' in the flea market bucket of junk tools, Bob Sturgeon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158409 ---- From: Tony Blanks Date: 2006-03-19 15:27:04 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Metal Shoulder Plane Hi John You asked, >In practice what is the difference between using a wooden rabbet (rebate, >Jeff) and a British infill shoulder plane ? IMHO a rebate plane is for planing rebates with the grain. A shoulder plane is for light planing of end grain, just sufficient to true and polish the shoulder of a tenon so that the shoulder fits tight to the piece in which the mortise has been formed. Shoulder planes usually are much finer in the mouth than a rebate plane. I guess you could plane a rebate with an infill shoulder plane but it would be a relatively slow job. I guess also that you could trim a tenon shoulder with a rebate plane, but I think this would work better in a large timber project, eg barn framing, than in fine cabinetwork. >Is one better at a specific task then another ? See above >Is a skewed woodie rabbet for cross grain only ? Long grain is better >handled with a straight iron ? I'll leave that last question for someone else Regards, Tony B Hobart, Tasmania ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158410 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-19 10:59:22 Subject: Re: Danger! Danger Will Robinson! Paul shares words of wisdom on avoiding hazard, and in a zen moment, the *dangers* of avoiding hazard. I agree with the old adage he cites, but I would modify it to include 'kill or maim.' And there's another old adage that says, "Learn from others' mistakes, since you won't live long enough to make all of them yourself." My own prayer is that I will continue to gain wisdom a bit faster than I gain scars and that the process will not come to an abrupt self- induced end some day. And to any Galoots who share their own hard-earned wisdom: Thank you!! Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ----- Original Message ----- > My point is that life contains hazards, but most of the time it is not the > thing in question that gets us, it is we who get ourselves. We can screw > up > by being careless, uninformed, in a hurry or sometimes just really stupid! > But life is most interesting when we are actively engaged. > > I carry a number of old scars and a few recent ones from making a mistake > or > getting careless, but I still like the adage--that which does not kill me > makes me stronger! That does not mean we have a license to be stupid, but ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158411 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-19 11:21:32 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Metal Shoulder Plane Earlier, on Oldtools, it was asked: > > >> In practice what is the difference between using a wooden rabbet >> (rebate, >> Jeff) and a British infill shoulder plane ? > > The Museum of Woodworking has a nice discussion of this: http://www.antiquetools.com/perm-col/east-wing/index.html They used to have an article by Maurice Fraser posted there, but I just see reference to it now. It is a damn good article on the subject and worth looking into: http://www.taunton.com/FWN/SkillsAndTechniques/ SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id In summary, a rabbet plane is an ancient tool used for planing rabbets, either with or cross grain. It is a simple tool made in the pattern of most wooden planes. A shoulder plane is a much more precise tool, in construction that is. It is made from metal so it can have a fine mouth and support a low angle blade, all in order to trim endgrain. It is somewhat new to the scene as them old dudes used other methods to trim the endgrain of shoulders before the 19th century. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158412 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-19 17:27:11 Subject: Stain I have always liked wood finishes that let the wood show through. Most of the time the wood I build with looks very good on its own. Why change the color if you don't need to? I have stained some pieces and even painted a few but a clear finish is my favorite. I have watched wood shows on TV and could never figure out why people paint or stain everything some dark color. I like the galoot logo that shows the younger guy. I'm only 31. Although SWMBO keeps finding these gray hairs that may or may not be there. When I get older I'll switch to the other one. Never really paid attention to which handed the guy was. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158413 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-19 17:01:44 Subject: Special Week-end GG, Short version, Attended "Woodworking with Hand Tools" at Homestead Heritage Village this Saturday. Enjoyed!!! Longer version: Clocked just over 900 miles this weekend mostly in the dark and rain in order to attend the class held just outside of Waco, Texas. Left Friday evening in order to get a few hrs. sleep in da hollywood hotel, in order not to be road weary when I got to the class. The setting where HHV is located is gently rolling hills and valleys in central Texas and they have crafted a beautiful working community based around natural farming and husbandry, and literaly all the activities of an agragrian society. The Shop where the class is held is a beautiful airy, well lit space well suited to woodworking with an abundance of natural light augmented with flourescents. Paul Sellers is a masterful woodworker and an excellent teacher with an easy "this ain't rocket science" approach to his craft. The class was a joy to attend and I believe it will help me to be a better woodworker, with practice. Technique and practice...that is the main things I brought away from this class..."technique" is what I went for. Just an 8 hour class, the class focused on sharpening and the three main joints in woodworking dado, m&t, and dovetail. But how much more basic can you get, they are the basis for almost everything. Althought the joints were the basis for the class Paul imparted a great deal of diverse information in his discussions of sharpening, layout, marking, and cutting these joints. I am looking forward to taking some of the more advanced classes, time and money permitting. No afilliation, yada, yada, yada... Look for a write up with pictures on my website in the near future... Two other items of note this weekend.... This came in the mail... http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3681 Thank you, Mike, it is beautiful.... And this I picked up at Homestead.... http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3683 Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158414 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-19 18:31:09 Subject: Re: Special Week-end Way cool Roy! Sounds like a very worthwhile experience. I think I've seen their web site. Maybe some day I'll get to do something like that. Yes, its like anything. There is only so much they can do in a weekend, the key is taking what you learned and practicing it. Did he actually have you work on a project or was it a series of exercises designed to practice what he was teaching you? Sometimes the latter is better in that you're not worried about completing something so you can focus on technique. Wendy On Sunday 19 March 2006 06:01 pm, roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > Short version, Attended "Woodworking with Hand Tools" at Homestead > Heritage Village this Saturday. Enjoyed!!! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158415 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-19 16:02:47 Subject: Re: Special Week-end On 19 Mar 2006 at 17:01, roygriggs@v... wrote: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Chop-n-hack~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Look for a write up with pictures on my website in the near future... '''' Sounds like a really good time! > > Two other items of note this weekend.... > > This came in the mail... > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > Thank you, Mike, it is beautiful.... Don't he do nice work? _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158416 ---- From: Steve Date: 2006-03-19 20:13:57 Subject: old F-clamp w/pat I found what seems to be a very old small cast iron or steel F-clamp. 6-1/2" long, I-beam design, thumb latch locking/snugging mechanism. No marker mark, only "PAT. est. 11. '10" embossed on one of the clamp ends. DATAMP has nothing like it under 1810 or 1910. Anyone know of this animal? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158417 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-20 09:10:38 Subject: Re: Handle Replacement on a Workmate T.J. wrote in part: I accidentally let one of the turning handles break off when my new Type 4 workmate slid around in the back of my trusty Nissan pickup PeterH chips in: The handle is probably pinned to the threaded shaft. After unpinning it, you will probably find that the back of the broken pieces have troughs molded into them. My repair relies on this. Lay the broken pieces aligned onto carpet tape or similar to stop them from pulling apart. Cut a piece of metal, preferable fairly rigid aluminium, to fit into the trough. Mix sufficient epoxy to fill the trough. Put a little expoxy into the trough and then place the metal into it. Pour the remaining epoxy in. There are various ways to utilise this type of repair, including roughing up the trough for better adhesion of the expoxy. The added metal provides the strength for the repaired joint. The expoxy just makes sure the metal stays there. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158418 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-19 19:59:03 Subject: Re: Special Week-end GG, Wendy, we simply cut joints in white pine, as few or as many as we each had time to do. I cut two dado's, both fairly good and two dovetails neither very good and one thru m&t that wasn't too bad. The benefit of the class was the methodology of how to cut joints. The 40 plus years of experience boiled down into a step by step method that works well is accurate and clean (for Paul) and quick. One enlightening aspect of the day was Paul's method of sharpening edge tools, or as he said maintaining the edge. He uses a coarse diamond plate and a fine diamond plate plus a leather stroop with green rouge. Several of the things that I saw and took note of were simple fixtures he had; a wooden saw vice, a nice simple shooting board. And I'm sure as I replay the week-end over in my mind I will realize other things that I saw. Well worth the time and money... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158419 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-19 20:04:27 Subject: Re: Danger! Danger Will Robinson! GG, My hard learned wisdom on this subject is not to stick digits in the way of sharp objects, spinning or otherwise...and carry five or six good bandaides in your wallet. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158420 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-19 21:09:49 Subject: Old Tool Nirvana I was supposed to be at a 4 year olds birthday party today, at my in-laws place. But I managed to weasel out of it and went looking for old tools. And I found old tool nirvana. 300+ chisels, 50+ braces, 2 dozen egg beaters, 3 dozen saws, an uncountable number of planes (wooden and metal) and about a billion marking gauges. And that was what I noticed. Well, they guy knows his stuff. So there are no free-bees in the place, but there is not a single piece of junk in the lot. He asked me what I was interested in and I said "everything". My only regret, I really wanted the type 1 Stanley 140, but I just could not fork out the $125 he wanted. Maybe I should have. But I just can't see using it enough to justify the cash. If I spent that much on a plane, I am likely to lock it in a safe deposit box. I got a couple of odds and ends, nothing fantastic but all worthwhile. The real gloat is a Disston 7 with the 1840-1850 medallion. It has 3 split screws and the blade is stamped "Henry Disston, Philada, Cast Steel 7 Warranted". It is 12 TPI, and the 12 stamp is still there. It has been sharpened maybe once and is still sharp. The nib is still in place. The only apology is a small chip off the top horn. It looks a lot like this 1840's one, but is a 7, not an 8 (and is not a clean as the photo) : http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/8page.html The price: $50. I had a hard time handing over that much but when I had it in my hands, I could not let go. For my trouble, he GAVE me an 1890's 7/D-7, beech handle, 10 tpi. Lots of pitting, but I ain't complaining I also picked up a Harvey Peace backsaw (open handle) with split screws marked "40" and "Vulcan" with the Peace arm & hammer for $20.00. It's a good thing I live 100 miles away. No tax. No shipping. Feeling fine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158421 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-19 21:26:45 Subject: Re: Re: Special Week-end On Sunday 19 March 2006 08:59 pm, roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > Wendy, we simply cut joints in white pine, as few or as many as we each > had time to do. That sounds good! You really got to focus entirely on joinery. > > He uses a coarse diamond plate > and a fine diamond plate plus a leather stroop with green rouge. > Interesting! I took a woodworking fundamentals course last weekend and while it was mostly power tools, he did a section on sharpening and recommended the same implements..the diamond plates and leather stroop. > > Well worth the time and money... > Yes, it indeed sounds like it. Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158422 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-03-19 21:14:20 Subject: Re: Handle Replacement on a Workmate Thanks so much, PeterH, for your repair suggestion. I think this is my best bet. Although, I was hoping someone had found a way to replace the handle entirely with an improved galoot made version, this sounds like a solid alternative. Thank you! -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... > The handle is probably pinned to the threaded shaft. After > unpinning it, > you will probably find that the back of the broken pieces have troughs > molded into them. My repair relies on this. > Lay the broken pieces aligned onto carpet tape or similar to stop > them from > pulling apart. > Cut a piece of metal, preferable fairly rigid aluminium, to fit > into the trough. > Mix sufficient epoxy to fill the trough. Put a little expoxy into > the trough and > then place the metal into it. Pour the remaining epoxy in. There > are various > ways to utilise this type of repair, including roughing up the > trough for > better adhesion of the expoxy. The added metal provides the strength > for the repaired joint. The expoxy just makes sure the metal stays > there. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158423 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-19 19:35:47 Subject: Re: Special Week-end Roy spoke and said... > Short version, Attended "Woodworking with Hand Tools" at Homestead > Heritage Village this Saturday. Enjoyed!!! Pretty cool, Roy! I've always wanted to attend some classes and just have never gotten around to it. My first choice would be with Lonnie Bird as we have communicated about it many times. Second would be locally at Rogowski's school. One day. > This came in the mail... > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > Thank you, Mike, it is beautiful.... You are very welcome, Roy--always a pleasure. Here's a peak at the latest one that is headed across the pond. http://wenzloffandsons.com/saws/pe/pe_0006a.jpg http://wenzloffandsons.com/saws/pe/pe_0007a.jpg 22" 9 ppi panel styled after a Harvey Peace panel. Never have enjoyed something as much since I quit killing trees... Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158424 ---- From: "Frank Filippone" Date: 2006-03-19 19:49:16 Subject: Patrick Edwards, French School Veneering Patrick did a 4 hour mini class at Cerritos College today. Wonderful presentation. this guy KNOWS and uses old tools. He explained the use and care of a glue pot..... Something that would have taken me a few years and a lot of mistakes. Hide glue really does sound pretty good. He also showed some of his veneering tools, including the veneer hammer. Amazing what a bit of old cooked meat and bones, plus a pot of hot water plus a bar of metal can do when you know how to use it..... Lew Soloway was there, and I hope he will add..... During the raffle, I was lucky enough to win a bottle of Edward's Hide Glue.... so the next M+T I make, will be glued using this ( 5000 year old technology) miracle product! Frank Filippone red735i@e... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158425 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-19 22:16:51 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch OK Steve, I have to agree with Scott again, in that I can't improve on the natural color of wood. I understand the concern of blotchy color on the pine and agree that you should use the bottom of the piece you are working on to achieve what you want. However, I want to suggest an alternative to what you are trying to do. What would be wrong with finishing the table top in almost natural and then refinishing the chair bottoms to match that? As Scott said, unless you want to make this into formica, you can't really make it a uniform color and consistency. I personally love the color variation if you have to stain, but prefer the natural variation that cannot be achieved any way but through natural finishes. Of course, if there is an overwhelming reason to color dark......... BTW, Ponderosa Pine is only surpassed in beauty by Sugar Pine IMO, and both are *way* above the pine you buy at the Borg. (Large chain builder supply store, Jeff) Bruce Z. Kearney, MO Old tools FS list at http://www.generationsfurniture.com/tools > Short Story: > > An old problem - I'm having problems getting a > non-blotchy medium-dark brown stain on pine. > > Long Story (with bonus family history): Snipped per the FAQ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 268.2.2/280 - Release Date: 3/13/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158426 ---- From: Joseph Jerkins Date: 2006-03-19 21:52:22 Subject: Interesting Vise, Mantle and panel While in Philadelphia about two weeks ago, I managed to go to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. It was "donation Sunday" meaning you pay what you want. I paid the standard cover charge and wandered in full of anticipation of seeing some wonderful Philadelphia furniture. I was quite disappointed to discover that the way to the American Wing was closed due to a new exhibit being installed. I felt robbed. Since I was there and it was cold out, I determined to see as much as I could. It is a really good museum and I'd recommend it to anyone who happens to be in Philadelphia. They have several rooms from various periods that have been reassembled. One of them, ca 1500, had a dovetailed mantle so of course I had to take a picture of it. You can see it on Galoot Central at http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3687 There was another room, I believe from the same era, that had three walls all covered with hand carved panels. Although I've seen linen fold panels before, these obviously cost the original homeowner a bit more. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3688 In another room, there was a vise that I believe was listed as ca 1500. It had a very interesting face on it. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3686 After a couple of hours at the museum, I was getting tired of sightseeing (I had already been to Independence Hall, Liberty Bell, Constitution Center and Carpenters Hall) I decided to head out. I got slightly turned around or as my wife says, "lost". I went down some stairs to the lowest level, decided to go up a different set of stairs and low and behold, I was in the American wing, looking right at a Philadelphia Highboy. The tool gods (or at least furniture gods) decided I'd suffered enough. Simply great stuff. To top it off, I had a great shepherd's pie and Guinness (or two) at a pub near the hotel afterwards. Joe Jerkins back in warmer San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158427 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-20 00:17:26 Subject: Re: Special Week-end On Sunday 19 March 2006 03:01 pm, roygriggs@v... wrote: > Short version, Attended "Woodworking with Hand Tools" at Homestead > Heritage Village this Saturday. Enjoyed!!! Nice! I've heard nothing but good comments about Homestead Heritage. > Just an 8 hour class, the class focused on sharpening and the three main > joints in woodworking dado, m&t, and dovetail. I guess I was doing similar myself, but would have rather'd been with you!;-) I got some time to play around with my Wenzloff & Son's small joinery saws. > This came in the mail... > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > Thank you, Mike, it is beautiful.... Nice, I really like my saws that Mike made for me. Mine have an extremely rare species of curless curly jatoba, which I figure has got to be one of the rarest woods around! Although Mike swears the original piece of wood had nice curl to it, none of it showed up after the handles were shaped...:-( None the less, these are very nice saws and the handles feel wonderful. These saws were also quite a time in the making, and Mike went through several iterations to come up with these. I made a small box that ended up 12"L x 3"W x 3.5"H, I'm planning to use it for little stuff, like measuring tools, dovetail templates, marking gauge, sliding bevels, etc... I think I cut the pins too narrow, they're the smallest pins I've ever cut. I made it out of clear pine that I had, and need to finish the bottom and top. I plan to rabbet the top and bottom, glue them together, then cut the box in two and put some hingest and a latch on it. There was an article a while ago in FWW on making wood latches, I'll have to check that out. > > And this I picked up at Homestead.... > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > > > Roy Griggs > roygriggs@v... > www.shavingsandsawdust.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158428 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-20 17:36:59 Subject: Re: splitting a log Adriaan Gerber wrote: > ** I'd like to make sure I split it correctly since it > was a gift, so does anyone have some > tips on how to ensure clean straight splits? Is ash > easy to split? I don't know about your ash but all timber tends to run out under the splitting process to some degree or other. First thing to do is to place the log on cross supports (two are usually sufficient, say, 3"x2") which are reposing on a fairly level patch of ground and to permit and persuade the log to lay on the broader part of its circumference, that is, in its most stable reclining position. Stakes are driven into the ground (4 are usually sufficient) flush against both sides of the log towards either end to secure it in its position. "Fancy" initial splits may be tried in due course but it is easier, although the process is not necessarily easy at all, on early attempts at log splitting to split the log down its top midline through its centre line. Saw off square if they have not been sawn the butt and top end of the log and plumb the sawn ends from that point on the top of each end of the fixed log which directs the line through the centre point of each end and snap chalklines along the plumb lines. From the top of one plumbline (use a nail and simple knot tied in the doubled end of the line, not the metal thing which comes with some lines) run a chalkline to the top of the other and snap the first split line. Practise snapping chalklines correctly before marking the log if one is not familiar with the process, otherwise multiple "try" lines will lead one astray. It is not a difficult matter to do it correctly but a little practice on a plank is advisable. Make sure the axe is arm-shaving sharp at the least. Eschew all thought of the use of one of those nonsense tools marketed as "block splitters". Four steel wedges are required and they usually start their lives being 10" long, 3" wide and 11/2" thick. Wooden and plastic wedges are fine for keeping separated planks as they come off a log over the saw bench but one has a real chance of painfully jamming irretrievably a piece of one's anatomy should they break or compress under the tremendous pressures exerted by a log during the course of its being split. As a matter of fact, it is never a good idea to split a significant log in the splendid solitude of one's own company as the ability of a log to spit a wedge back into the forehead of the log's adversary is legendary. Facing the butt of the log, make the first cut along the top chalk line about 1 foot or a little less up from the log's butt, swinging your axe in the same line as the plumb line on the butt as if it was intended that the axe should go right through the log to the other side (this is, in essence, the "follow through" as in golf or shotgun shooting), but only with enough force to take the axehead about one quarter of its depth (2" or a bit less) into the log. Straddling the log (unless, of course, it is so high and wide that one has to walk on it) and facing towards its top end, do this as one moves along the chalk line leaving 6" to 8" intervals between cuts but leaving the tip of the top end uncut. Turn around and come back down the log making the cuts in the spaces between the earlier cuts, this time finishing with a cut down the plumbline right at the butt of the log. Go up (this time splitting the top end's tip along its plumb line) and down once more slightly deepening the cuts and making sure that all the cut lines are joined along the chalkline. Move to the middle of the length of the log and deepen the cuts a depth of a further two inches for a distance of about 1 foot in either side of the mid point striking, instead of perpendicularly downwards, with the blade's edge angled towards one so as to join any unjoined cuts and to sever the fibres along the line at the bottom of the cut. This cutting angle should be maintained for the remainder of the job. A steel wedge is then driven into the cut line at the midpoint of the log's length until the cut line beyond the ends of the deeper part of the cut starts to open. It should be unnecessary to state that the wedge is to be driven with a wooden beetle, preferably, but if a beetle is unavailable then with a metal sledge which will eventually bugger the wedges but NEVER with the back of the axe which will certainly bugger the axe. When the deeper cuts from the middle just start to open at their ends they should be deepened by the axe for a distance of about a foot from those ends and a steel wedge should be driven at the butt and top ends of each of those deepened cuts to the extent that the middle wedge is freed. At this stage, do not be tempted to drive the middle metal wedge further into the log but use it together with the fourth metal wedge to wedge two further extended cuts from the two set metal wedges until they too loosen and so on, leapfrogging the wedges towards either end, until there is reached both the butt and top end of the log. Leaving the butt and top end wedges in place the two other wedges are sunk firmly a comfortable distance for axe swinging from the midpoint of the log and the cut is again deepened at the middle with the axe towards either wedge and, when such deeper cutting loosens them just a bit, the butt and top end wedges are knocked out and driven in closer to the existing wedges, the cuts between the two sets of wedges are deepened and the leap-frogging process is resumed. As the log starts to open, first, usually, at the top end, knock back the stakes to permit this movement. Towards the bottom of the cut which occurs first at the top end of the log be careful not to drive the axe into the ground or more time will be spent sharpening the axe than cutting the split. The essence of the task is that the axe really makes and controls the direction of the split, severing all fibres which tend to run contrary to the direction of the initial chalk line and the wedges are there simply to furnish access by the axe deep into the log to cut these fibres. Significant knots and determined attempted run-outs require special treatment with the axe to bring them back into line and this can sometimes amount to cutting perpendicularly to the line of travel of heavy formations of wayward fibres as the axe travels in line with the initial chalk line. In the natural course of events the top end of the log will be cut through before the butt end and the wedging and cutting then will proceed from the top end towards the butt, but always cutting to a new depth of no more than two or three inches. Trying to do more merely by force of wedging, although it looks tempting, is a sure recipe for a massive run out towards the butt. After the log is halved each half is laid flat-side down on the supports, re-staked, marked and quartered. It is then up to the proud owner of a four-piece log further to reduce the pieces for his intended purposes. One can straddle-split logs into halves up to about 18" in diameter and into quarters, that is splitting out one quarter at a time, up to about 30" in diameter provided appropriate loin-girding precautions are taken for the larger ones. Beyond that size, however, one works from the side and top of the log wearing one's best sanshooboot for purposes of superior traction and splits off side planks. Sometimes, however, a very large steel wedge, about 24" long x 3" wide x 3" thick at the top must be driven to rescue a smaller one which has been trapped by the log or it has to be sawn and chopped out. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adriaan Gerber" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:52 AM Subject: [OldTools] splitting a log > GGs, > > A friend from my snowshoemaking class just dropped off > a 12' brown ash log, maybe 7" diameter. > I'd like to split it while green and use some for > snowshoes while stashing the rest until I need > it for something. So far I've debarked it and wrapped > the ends in wet rags with plastic wrapped > around that. > > I have a few questions, if it pleases the Porch: > > > ** What other uses is ash good for, could I make a bow > out of it? > > ** Usually the ash is bent around the snowshoe form > while still green, but since I'm not ready > for that yet, would I be able to just steam the > dried pieces for bending? In other words, > can I restore the wood to it's green springiness by > steaming? Or would it be better to leave > the wood debarked and unsplit for a month or two? > Would it still be "green"? > > ** How cool is it to have someone just drop off a tree > just because you asked? > > Much thanks in advance, > Adriaan > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158429 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-20 17:50:43 Subject: Re: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes John Edwards writes: > Well as luck would have it a coupla handled filly stirs and a plow or two > have followed me home of late. > > The question is simply (?) What is the best way to loosen the wedges on > these handled phantoms ? A satisfactory and safe method is to grasp both wedge & iron in the right hand, if one is right handed, and to knock the rear end of the plane on the top of the bench near the edge so that the hand is outboard the edge of the bench. The rear end is knocked squarely on the bench and the hand motion is more in the nature of pulling down rather than swinging with a hammer. The knocks need not be very forceful and, if one knock does not do the job, the second, third or whatever will. The index finger is closest to the body of the plane and the pinky is towards the top of the iron and wedge. The tips of the fingers of the left hand can be placed on the sole at the toe end to hold the body of the plane in square alignment with the bench top during the pulling-down motion. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158430 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-20 18:17:51 Subject: Re: Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening Andrew in Belleville, IL writes: Mechanics how to guides from the 30’s-50’s and recent postings to the list I ’ve seen mention of our friend kerosene. It seems to be a dirty word when associated with dirt/rust removal and I’m OK with that, but I’m curious about something I’ve been trying to accomplish: cleaning a glazed oilstone. I’ve been apprehensive of using kerosene for such a purpose but have yet to find a better suggestion that didn’t offer the same hazards as kerosene ! Ah! The much publicized but undefined hazards of kerosene. Publicly eschew its use in favour of fruit juice and you'll make a whole lot of people whose electricity comes from coal, oil, gas and uranium powered generators, whose motor vehicles and lawn mowers are powered by many of the same substances or their derivatives and whose tricycles are manufactured using power from the same sources and are lubricated by much the same substances, indefinably happy. If, however, you simply want to de-glaze your oilstones, soak them in kero for 10 minutes and then scrub them using, if you like, a natural fibre scrubbing brush if you are in the mood for tossing the dog a bone. These hot days in Illinois must be spectacular given the difference between the flash points of kerosene (paraffin, Jeff) in a can in a shed and of gasoline (petrol, Jeff) in a car's fuel tank in a garage. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158431 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-20 10:22:37 Subject: Re: Workmate Bench Peter Hyde wrote: > I seem to remember watching a TV show in Britain many years ago that > identified the maker of the original Workmate as the Lotus car > company. I think they had a designer (maybe Colin Chapman?) come up > with the idea because of a need for a portable work bench that could > be used in the pit area to allow engines to be held whilst mechanics > worked on them. Maybe just another urban legend? Any Brits out there > who can corroborate or am I really that old! http://www.blackanddecker.co.uk/news.asp?mktid=2&lid=1&sid=8&allYears=&- summitYear=&summitMonth=&showNews=345&eventID= Short version: Ron Hickman *was* a designer at Lotus, but the Workmate was purely Hickman's, not Lotus'. The story is told in detail in the "Workbench Book". BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158432 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-20 12:11:54 Subject: Restoring wooden plane Dear Galoots, I've been thinking on how should I restore the wooden jack plane I just bought this last saturday at the flea market and thought you could be of great help before I get moving and ruin it. Mac has found some information that dates the blade of this plane to between 1881 and 1915, given the "Burys & Co" engraving in the iron. http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id- =158393&submit_thread=1#message Althought it is in a good shape overall, the previous owner covered it with varnish (maybe it was just for display) but did a terible job, and some parts have an uneven finish. I do believe this isn't the original finish, and the varnish coating looks recent and has little to no scratches. On the other hand, the sole hasn't been covered with varnish and looks and feels just as it should. The sole is flat with just a couble of scratches and the mouth is in good shape. The wedge is the worse part, with several coats of varnish, and a very uneven finish. The iron has some rust spots and the top (?? - the end oposite the cutting edge) is a bit "mushroomed". Some parts of the iron and chipbreaker have varnish as well... So my questions are: - Should I remove the varnish and apply a more traditional finish like wax? It doesn't feel quite right in my hand with the varnish finish. - How hould I remove the varnish, solvent / sandpaper??? - Should I make the iron's top flat again? (I kind of like the mushroom, which gives it an old look and shows it's been given much use) - What bevel angle should I leave it with when I go about sharpening the iron? The current angle is 23 degrees, and usualy I read that the angle should be between 25 and 30. What difference will it make? Many thanks in advance. Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158433 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-20 08:51:04 Subject: Australian Galoots Blown Away? I hope our Mates on the northeastern coast of Australia are safe and sound--looks like quite a cyclone there! Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158434 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-20 08:41:48 Subject: Re: Kerosene, cleaning oilstones and sharpening GG's In the family business years ago, we used 30 weight motor oil on the whet stones to sharpen until I decided to add 50% kerosene. It cleaned and cut faster. Fast forward to today (many years later) in my own business, I don't use the oil, just the kerosene. It cleans the stone and seems to make the stone cut much faster. I dunno if it is better than the fancy honing oils out there, but it sure is cheaper. No problems with fire or explosion at least so far. About 50 years or so..... Bruce Z. Kearney, MO Old tools FS list at http://generationsfurniture.com/tools. Much snippage.... > Ah! The much publicized but undefined hazards of kerosene. Publicly eschew > its use in favour of fruit juice and you'll make a whole lot of people whose > electricity comes from coal, oil, gas and uranium powered generators, whose > motor vehicles and lawn mowers are powered by many of the same substances or > their derivatives and whose tricycles are manufactured using power from the > same sources and are lubricated by much the same substances, indefinably > happy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158435 ---- From: Thomas Johnson Date: 2006-03-20 09:00:31 Subject: Zelary - the movie (OT content) Saw a great movie last night - Zelary -Czech - set in 1943-45 OT Content? Short scene of laying a plank floor in a log house ---- a swipe or two shown of a serious jack plane in operation .... a water driven gang saw in operation slicing up logs ... 'twas fun. The movie stands on its own merit with or without the WW scenes T ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158436 ---- From: "Scott Matthews" Date: 2006-03-20 10:24:13 Subject: New Galoot intro and questions First of all since that seems to be the custom, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Scott Matthews living in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia. My general interests are general woodworking. (Most has been w/ power tools so far.) Carving, marquetry, backpacking (AT Trail name "Davey Jones"), and am getting into Kayaking. I just got into collecting old tools and am starting with wooden bodied planes. While browsing an antique store recently I picked up 3 molding planes to start off the collection. The price seemed a lot better than I had seen at other shops, but after getting home, and doing some research, I still see that I probably over paid by twice. Guess that shows just how over priced the other shops are. These planes are: (all 3 stamped with owners initials WSS) Auburn Tool Co., Auburn N.Y. No. 180 - 8 Owasco Tool Co. 177 -7/8 (I see that this was made by Auburn Tool, Co.) J T Brown 1 1/4" wide blade round over Cannot find any reference to planes by J T Brown. Possibly previous owner? Tang of cutting blade is marked W. Butcher. Other blades are not marked. Web seems to indicate this is an after market blade from England. Possibly a "home made" plane? Not really knowing I would guess the condition if fair. The blades need some clean up work, but should be usable. One has a broken wedge, where you grip it to insert/pull out, but the "wedge" part is intact, holds firm, and can be removed OK. I figured I could make a new wedge if need be. All have a nice dark patina, have been used, but not obviously abused. Question #1: After I finish my current marquetry project, I'm thinking of making a cedar strip kayak. To do this I need a couple hundred 16' long strips of 1/4" cedar. So I'm keeping an eye out for a matched set of 1/4" diam (1/8"r ?) hollow and round planes to mate up the strips and deal with the curved hull. Where would be the best place to keep an eye open, and what should I expect to pay? What should I do to keep the planes, especially the hollowing blade, centered and not drift off the edge? Practice, practice, practice?????? Each strip will only be 1" wide. Could I mount the planes in a bench vise and run the strips over the planes, much like I was going to do with a router table? Question #2: After lurking for a while I'm starting to appreciate all the old stuff my dad used to have when I was a kid. Unfortunately, most of those tools are long gone. One item I do have is a pre-leather man multitool knife set that was supposedly my grandfathers. It has everything except a pair of pliers. Each tool snaps into the handle as needed. Made by the Napanoch Knife Co. of Napanoch, NY. I haven't been able to find any more that general information on the company itself. Does anyone here have any idea how popular this item was or any info? Estimated value? Photo's can bee seen at: http://www.geocities.com/captsct2000/Napanoch_multitool.html Question #3: Back to my current marquetry project. It's a round table, and I want to put a molded edge on the outer ring. Are there any molding planes made for doing curved edges, or a special technique for doing this with straight planes? I'd like a nice wide (7/8" -1" wide) classical ogee edge. Again, any ideas where to look and general price to expect? Question #4: Anyone else living in this area that could teach me the finer points of grading the condition of wooden planes, and maybe clue me into local shops that have a good selection, and not grossly over priced? Thanks in advance for the feedback. (and I hope I got this properly in plain text format.) Scott, Two paths diverged in the woods. I took the one with white blazes. That made all the difference. Baltimore Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158437 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-20 10:37:34 Subject: RE: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes If I remember correctly, Patrick Leach used to recommend using your freezer for stubborn wedges. Stick the plane in for awhile, and things tend to shrink a bit. Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > John Manners > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:51 AM > To: John Edwards; Old Tool List > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes > > > The question is simply (?) What is the best way to loosen > the wedges on > > these handled phantoms ? > > A satisfactory and safe method is to grasp both wedge & iron > in the right > hand, if one is right handed, and to knock the rear end of > the plane on the > top of the bench near the edge so that the hand is outboard > the edge of the > bench. The rear end is knocked squarely on the bench and the ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158438 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-20 10:52:51 Subject: RE: The Pine Blotch As Nathaniel points out, avoiding blotching is easy. What's harder is avoiding the blotch AND getting a dark color. I've been able to do this by first sealing with a conditioner (shellac, MinWax, whatever) and then applying several layers of oil-based stain, almost as a glaze. (The problem is that the sealing works against getting things dark.) I apply the stain liberally, and then use a rag, not to wipe off excess, but to distribute it, by letting the rag become saturated. You're going to obscure the grain somewhat, and are, in effect, doing some graining of your own with the glazing, but if you're patient it can be done. In my case - using 2-byes from the lumber yard for a table top - I had to experiment mixing my own color from several of the same brand. (Of course the top warped all to heck, but back then I didn't know any better. So I had a nicely colored wavy top.) Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > N.A. Mitkowski > Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 7:47 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Pine Blotch > > Am I missing something here? Correct me if I am because I have found > blotch an easy problem to eradicate. > > When I started working with pine I stained it, got awful blotches. A > book told me to apply a stain conditioner or boiled linseed oil, let > it sit 5-10 minutes and then apply the stain. I ran a test with no > conditioner, minwax stain conditioner and BLO. The absence of > conditioner was a nightmare. Conditioner worked like a charm, BLO > also worked but the stain was too light for my liking. > > I have never gotten blotch again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158439 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-20 11:01:24 Subject: Re: New Galoot intro and questions At 10:24 AM 3/20/2006, Scott Matthews wrote: >J T Brown 1 1/4" wide blade round over >Cannot find any reference to planes by J T Brown. Possibly previous owner? >Tang of cutting blade is marked W. Butcher. Other blades are not marked. >Web seems to indicate this is an after market blade from England. Possibly >a "home made" plane? Nope not at all. John T. Brown was a plane and edge tool maker in Baltimore MD 1824-1843. His planes are rated 1 star for rarity meaning that there are between 250 and 500 known examples. The W Butcher iron is correct for that vintage tool and if my some what intermittent memory is semi-functional this AM, I recall haveing had 1 or 2 of his planes with Butcher Irons. I'll let someone else answer the technical questions, save to say that complex moulding planes for making cuts on outer round surfaces are pretty much non-existent. You will occasionally see one that is a compass or inner round plane but those are pretty scarce as well. Here is a picture of one from my stash http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/rplane5a.jpg A scratch stock which is a scraper cut to a specific profile will work the best for what you are looking for. Welcome to the porch. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158440 ---- From: brian_welch@h... Date: 2006-03-20 11:16:26 Subject: finished my bench I have pretty much finished my new workbench, which I started back in 2003: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3692 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3693 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3694 I started with a free maple slab which I got from a friend from church. It is 2 feet by 6 feet and 2 inches thick. It came out of a high school metalshop, so it took some work to get it into usable shape. I added a thicker front edge with doghole strip (square dogs, of course!): http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2634 The tail vise is based on the Shaker tail vises in the Workbench Book: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2577 I got the tail vise screw at a garage sale for $1. The other vise is a Craftsman quick release vise I got free from my wife's grandfather. It was sitting in his shop after he died. He had never installed it or used it. The base is douglas fir 4x4s with a 2x8 stretcher (with stub tenons) bolted in place: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3660 It has an extra tall tiger maple (pulled from the Home Depot maple pile for cheap!) front apron, which I will use as a built-in board jack, a la the Nicholson bench: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3695 The best thing about it (other than the fact that much of it was entirely free!) is that it is heavy and rock solid. I have been using the "bench" that was left in my cellar when I bought it as well as a workmate for the past few years. When I flipped the new top over onto the new base and tried to rock it, I knew it was worth the wait and effort. I put a board into the tail vise and the bench didn't even think about moving. I never knew planing could feel like that! I still need to flatten the top some more and put a finish on it and get some proper handles for the vises and add some wooden jaws to the metal face vise, but these are all cosmetic. And since GIT #2 is arriving this week, it may be years before I get to work on it again. But it will be there waiting for me, ready to go when I am. Brian Welch Worcester, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158441 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-20 11:02:05 Subject: Re: Restoring wooden plane Luis Martins asked: >I've been thinking on how should I restore the wooden jack plane I >just bought this last saturday at the flea market and thought you >could be of great help before I get moving and ruin it. http://leica.lxphotos.com/tools/burys_1.jpg http://leica.lxphotos.com/tools/burys_2.jpg >Mac has found some information that dates the blade of this plane to >between 1881 and 1915, given the "Burys & Co" engraving in the iron. ... >So my questions are: > >- Should I remove the varnish and apply a more traditional finish like >wax? It doesn't feel quite right in my hand with the varnish finish. >- How hould I remove the varnish, solvent / sandpaper??? >- Should I make the iron's top flat again? (I kind of like the >mushroom, which gives it an old look and shows it's been given much >use) >- What bevel angle should I leave it with when I go about sharpening >the iron? The current angle is 23 degrees, and usualy I read that the >angle should be between 25 and 30. What difference will it make? Regarding the double iron (iron & cap iron), BURYS & Co. was formed in 1863, and continued in business, at Regent Works, Penistone Road, Sheffield, until about 1965. They became a "Limited" firm by 1879 - so, if "Ltd." is not included in the mark, your double iron probably pre-dates 1879. I.e., it was likely made between 1863 and 1879. However, that does not necessarily indicate the age of the plane. The characteristics of the plane are not consistent with manufacture by a commercial British plane maker. So, unless there is some kind of maker's mark on it, I'm thinking it was user made. Given the obvious time and attention that went into its making, the sloppy and uneven finish seems inconsistent with its being original. In which case, I think you should feel free to amend or replace the finish more to your liking. Specific advice on removing the finish is difficult without more knowledge of the finish, the type of wood, etc. In general, though, I think it safe to say that it is best to start with the techniques which are least likely to alter the quality and color of the wood's surface, and go to more aggressive techniques as needed/desired. For that reason, I'd start with some of the common solvents (alcohol, lacquer thinner, etc.) to see if they will soften/dissolve the finish to aid in its removal. Add sanding, scraping and strippers only as needed. Regarding the overall utility of the plane, do you know what kind of wood it is? Also, is it "on the quarter"? (I.e. are the growth rings roughly perpendicular to the cheeks/sides of the plane?) What is the bedding angle of the iron? In general, it is recommended that a 30 degree bevel will maintain a working edge somewhat better in harder woods, and a 25 degree bevel should be fine for softer woods. In practice, I find that I tend to prefer a 30 degree bevel, all around. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158442 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-20 10:08:45 Subject: Another update on the Plough plane restoration Well, I'm sorry to say that over the weekend, the boxwood strip in the fence reverted to its former bowed configuration and split out its housing again. So here's the plan. I will drive the boxwood out of the fence again and boil it. But this time I will clamp it with a slight bow COUNTER to the bow it seems to prefer. Then I will leave it in the clamp for a week. In the meantime, I will saw down into the split, giving it even sides so I can glue a thin spline down into it using stronger glue than last time. I will report back again for those who are interested. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158443 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-20 09:20:53 Subject: Re: New Galoot intro and questions >Question #2: >After lurking for a while I'm starting to appreciate all the old stuff my >dad used to have when I was a kid. Unfortunately, most of those tools are >long gone. One item I do have is a pre-leather man multitool knife set that >was supposedly my grandfathers. It has everything except a pair of pliers. >Each tool snaps into the handle as needed. Made by the Napanoch Knife Co. >of Napanoch, NY. I haven't been able to find any more that general >information on the company itself. Does anyone here have any idea how >popular this item was or any info? Estimated value? Photo's can bee seen >at: http://www.geocities.com/captsct2000/Napanoch_multitool.html > As Todd says, "I kind of collect these things" Geocities won't let me in to see the pix, exceeded their limit of 2 viewers. Of course condition and completeness is everything. Plus, the price difference for bone, celluloid or stag handles is substantial to astounding. but Napanoch is a good name in cutlery. If nothing else you'd be happy using their steel, I guarantee. Welcome aboard. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158444 ---- From: Ken Cutting Date: 2006-03-20 09:42:16 Subject: Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's Great Glue - t's, I feel a serious lack of knowledge when it comes to glues. It doesn't matter what kind. Wood glues, polyurathane glues, cyanoacetate glue (CA glues), epoxies. I just had a terrible experience with Behlen Epoxy Putty. I was filling a defect (relatively large) in the timbers I've been working for my bench and I choose this product for it's so-called "planability" - I guess it depends on your definition of planability - three passes and your blade is dull enough that it can't cut snow if it was hot as a skillet - hey, this stuff is planable! After sharpening more times than I could count I got rid of most of it by chopping it out with my poor 2 inch James Swan socket chisel. I replaced it with Gorilla Glue which is much nicer although the surface is porous contrasted with a nice surface from the epoxy from hell. I plan on doing some pore packing on the Gorilla Glue then trying to color match it and blend it in. Well, let's hear it all - what glues/adhesives do you use and in what situations? I think brand names can be helpful so don't hold back. Typical disclaimer - no affiliation except as a dissatisfied customer of "planable" epoxy and satisfied customer of Gorilla Glue. Come on Glue - t's, STICK it to me! Ken Cutting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158445 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-03-20 17:54:53 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch I've been following this thread with some interest, Steve Longley told us >The table and bench are made from pine, ponderosa pine according to >Dad, and asked >How do you get a medium dark stain on pine without the blotch? and thereafter we've handed out the usual great galoot advice, i.e all colours of opinion. My advice is also worth what you paid for it. . .. . First, lets understand about the blotch effect - as noted, it's prevalent on instant grown pine. Nowadays boards are through sawn, and the resinous content of growth rings frequently appears as the 'classic' pine look. Memory is hazy about Ponderosa pine, but does it suffer/feature a high resin content? If not, then you're ahead of the Borg product. Look at the grain, and decide if you have a stain friendly surface - tight, parallel growth rings, all seen end on as a series of lines, and not as the v or inverted v of a through sawn board where you are presented with tangential cuts. The 'conditioners' mentioned are a means of overcoming these resinous areas to allow the stain to penetrate. Alternatively, and less satisfactory, is colour the timber using a surface treatment such as shellac. After sealing the timber with a couple of thinned coats, use garnet to produce as dark a colour as you want. Here you run the risk of any damage revealing the underlying timber though. Better to get some colour into the surface ready for future chipping - Taken to extreme, professional places spray the colour on (why would anyone *want* that ? ) So well and good, but no one has yet mentioned the traditional and friendly van Dyke stain. Water based, and simple enough to reapply and mess with until the colour is even. Again, start with a seal coat of blonde shellac to control penetration, then switch to Van dyke, and work away until you're happy. A wet cloth will take off most of what you applied ( but rarely *all* ! ) and allow you to begin again. When happy, apply more shellac over the top to protect and finish. I suspect that you will have far less problem with your ponderosa pine than with your test boards. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158446 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-20 13:03:35 Subject: Re: Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's I've had relatively good luck with sawdust mixed in with yellow woodworker's glue. It does tend to shrink, and will take more than one application for sizable holes. But finishing it off has not been a problem. I used it on my bench, and it's still OK. Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY On 3/20/06, Ken Cutting wrote: > > Great Glue - t's, > > I feel a serious lack of knowledge when it comes to > glues. It doesn't matter what kind. > > Wood glues, polyurathane glues, cyanoacetate glue > (CA glues), epoxies. > > I just had a terrible experience with Behlen Epoxy > Putty. I was filling a defect (relatively large) in > the timbers I've been working for my bench and I > choose this product for it's so-called "planability" - > I guess it depends on your definition of planability - > three passes and your blade is dull enough that it > can't cut snow if it was hot as a skillet - hey, this > stuff is planable! > > After sharpening more times than I could count I got > rid of most of it by chopping it out with my poor 2 > inch James Swan socket chisel. I replaced it with > Gorilla Glue which is much nicer although the surface > is porous contrasted with a nice surface from the > epoxy from hell. I plan on doing some pore packing on > the Gorilla Glue then trying to color match it and > blend it in. > > Well, let's hear it all - what glues/adhesives do > you use and in what situations? I think brand names > can be helpful so don't hold back. > > Typical disclaimer - no affiliation except as a > dissatisfied customer of "planable" epoxy and > satisfied customer of Gorilla Glue. > > Come on Glue - t's, STICK it to me! > > Ken Cutting ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158447 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-20 13:06:59 Subject: Berea Well, the Berea trip is not to be, at least in the near future. My wife has come down with an eye infection that keeps us here with trips to the eye doctor. Thanks for the suggestions, however. Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158448 ---- From: dcarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-20 13:35:54 Subject: Re: Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's Ken, and fellow Galoots: Personally, while I am a rabid hand tool enthusiast, my personal feeling is that it is okay (in fact preferable) to apply electrickeral machines to materials, which have no business to be here on Earth except for human intervention. Epoxy is a good example of this. Bondo is another. Both of these subtances although useful, fall outside of the realm of materials begging for gentle, skillful manipulation by traditional tools. I would use an electron-gobbling, knuckle-abrading, screaming, biting, random orbital sander to wrench the excess devil's drool from your beautiful wood. Just be sure to wear eye protection, and earplugs and a respirator, steel toed shoes (in case the goggles fog up and you drop the RAS on your foot) and a flack-jacket. Oh, and wear two condoms, you just can't be too careful around electrickery! David C. Here in CT where it is a beautiful day! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158449 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-20 13:44:08 Subject: Re: New Galoot intro and questions On 20 Mar, 2006, at 10:24 AM, Scott Matthews wrote: > First of all since that seems to be the custom, I'd like to introduce > myself. > Welcome, Scott. Sounds like you have some great projects lined up. Good luck with them; I'm sure you'll find the porch a most useful resource. > Question #1: > What should I do to keep the planes, especially the hollowing > blade, centered and not drift off the edge? Surely there's a standard proven method - if so, the answer will be forthcoming from someone soon. But just in case it's not, I thought you might try a setup like a sticking board. This is a simple jig that sash makers use to plane the profiles in muntins. It is well illustrated in Roy Underhill's second book, The Woodwright's Companion. What? You say you don't have this book? Are you nuts?! It is now published with the first book as a single volume, The Woodwright's shop. If you are looking for it online, make sure you are getting a volume of about 380 pages - then you'll know it has both 190-page books. Anyway, a sticking board is a long board you clamp on your benchtop along the front edge. It has a rabbet which holds the strip of stock to be planed, and supports it against flexing. Additionally, the back edge of the rabbet stands proud of the strip of work, so that the plane has a little fence to run along. There is a stop at one end of the board (usually a small flat-head screw) which keeps the strip from scooting away. I have no idea if this is what was normally used, but I bet it would work nicely. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158450 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-20 13:50:04 Subject: RE: The Pine Blotch Well, I'll jump in here and add a penny's worth. I happen to have The Natural Paint Book (approximate title). When this thread started, I pulled it out and read a bit about wood finishes. To darken wood, the book advocates saturating the board with tea followed by vinegar/steel wool mixture. I recall Jim Thompson strongly recommending this for ebonizing, and according to the above-mentioned book, the amount of darkening can be controlled. The advantage is that it is more than just a surface treatment. In fact, I seem to recall that Jim has given detailed instructions but if anyone wants, I can summarize and post the book's guidance. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158451 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-20 14:01:05 Subject: Trip Follow Up I took a quick loop through Pennsylvania a month or so ago. Uncle Tony in Nesquehoning let me have a pig sticker, at a very reasonable price. It was rust-covered with some pitting but basically solid; a Butcher. I finally made a handle, out of some firewood locust. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3696 Steve Cooke in York got me my saws back some time ago. I've been slow in getting to use them - not enough shop time recently. Anyway, they cut like a dream! I wish I'd taken the time earlier, it would have saved a lot of time and effort, as well as giving me better, more accurate results. His price is very reasonable, and he doesn't make any money off of shipping. (I know, I know: the next step is to learn how to do it myself. But until then, I know where to go.) Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA PS, I have no affiliation other than satisfied customer, but if you're interested, Steve is at: COOKE'S SHARPENING & GRINDING SERVICE INC. 3331 W. Market Street York, PA 17404 (717) 793-9527 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158452 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-20 14:08:38 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch I missed a lot of this thread . . . does anyone but me use a heat gun to darken pine? Uh, I guess you shouldn't do this if you've been using kerosene on it or anything, or am I mixing my threads again? Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158453 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-20 14:20:08 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch dangnabit, gary, heat gun uses them dangerous electrons and isn't nearly as fun as live flame-- a torch (brass gasoline blowtorch is perfered) or flaming stick is the galoot way Somewhere in the garage I have a test panal comparing oak treated with rusty vinegar, vs pre-treatment with tannic acid followed by rusty vinegar, vs iron sulfate (with or without rusty vinegar). I'll see if I can dig it out and post a photo End result: rusty vinegar beats iron sulfate solution, tannic acid + rusty vinegar works best. tim raliegh nc "Gary K" Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/20/2006 02:08 PM To cc Subject Re: [OldTools] The Pine Blotch I missed a lot of this thread . . . does anyone but me use a heat gun to darken pine? Uh, I guess you shouldn't do this if you've been using kerosene on it or anything, or am I mixing my threads again? Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158454 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-20 19:36:18 Subject: Re: Restoring wooden plane Hi Don, Thank you for your very informative email. > Regarding the double iron (iron & cap iron), BURYS & Co. was formed in > 1863, and continued in business, at Regent Works, Penistone Road, > Sheffield, until about 1965. They became a "Limited" firm by 1879 - so, > if "Ltd." is not included in the mark, your double iron probably > pre-dates 1879. I.e., it was likely made between 1863 and 1879. I guess I can say that I've just bought a plane with more than 100 years... At least the iron... :-) > Regarding the overall utility of the plane, do you know what kind > of wood it is? Also, is it "on the quarter"? (I.e. are the growth > rings roughly perpendicular to the cheeks/sides of the plane?) > What is the bedding angle of the iron? I don't know what wood it is made of, but I'm planning to buy some wood sometime this week and I'll take the plane with me and ask if they know. They probably will. I'll check if it is "on the quarter" when I get back home, I think I'll be able to tell, if not I'll take a close-up photo of the heel and you'll probably be able to tell! :-) The bedding angle is 30 degrees, I'm almost sure as I did measure it when I got home with it. > In general, it is recommended that a 30 degree bevel will maintain > a working edge somewhat better in harder woods, and a 25 degree > bevel should be fine for softer woods. In practice, I find that I > tend to prefer a 30 degree bevel, all around. Since I plan to use it on hard woods (my next project), brazilian chery and sucupira (I don't know how to translate this, but this one is quite similar to wenge), it will be better with a 30 degree angle then. I believe the angle could have been reduced because the previous owner was hand sharpening the blade. I think I can tell this because the bevel isn't perfectly flat and is a bit rounded. Something that I believe that may happen if you don't have a sharpening guide or a steady hand. Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158455 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-20 11:48:32 Subject: Re: Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's On Mar 20, 2006, at 9:42 AM, Ken Cutting wrote: > > I feel a serious lack of knowledge when it comes to > glues. It doesn't matter what kind. > > Well, let's hear it all - what glues/adhesives do > you use and in what situations? I think brand names > can be helpful so don't hold back. There is nothing wrong with good old white glue. I use a lot of it for edge joining. When I am assembling things to turn on the lathe I use CA glue because I want it now. I also fill holes with CA and sanding dust from a wood of the correct color. Try before you apply. Hide glue for repairs to old stuff. Gorilla Glue for stuff that has to be waterproof. I very rarely use epoxy. > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158456 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-20 14:53:24 Subject: Fwd: [OldTools] Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's Subject: Re: [OldTools] Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's I've had relatively good luck with sawdust mixed in with yellow woodworker's glue. It does tend to shrink, and will take more than one application for sizable holes. But finishing it off has not been a problem. I used it on my bench, and it's still OK. Glue-T's, Rather than Yellow glue, or any glue for that matter, I've filled holes using a mix of sawdust and the finish I*m planning for my topcoat, Usually but not always shellac. Seems to blend right in with the topcoats and doesn't end up any darker than the surrounding wood. For glue*s, I use Titebond II and Gorilla Glue, with a dash of 5 minute epoxy (the kind in the double syringe) for almost everything. Never used hide glue, and CA doesn't seem right for woodworking, though Scott Adams, the Ned Flanders of woodworking does seem to use it quite a bit. Michael-San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158457 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-20 15:31:23 Subject: Re: Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's Ken: There is a web site that deals with the problem of deciding what glue to use to glue this to that. And in fact that is the name of the site, www.thistothat.com If you ever wanted to know how to glue say glass to metal or wood to leather or plastic to wood, this site will give you one or more recommendations. It make for some interesting reading. Bob Sturgeon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Cutting" To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: [OldTools] Galoo - Uh, I mean Glue-t's > > Great Glue - t's, > > I feel a serious lack of knowledge when it comes to > glues. It doesn't matter what kind. > > Wood glues, polyurathane glues, cyanoacetate glue > (CA glues), epoxies. > > I just had a terrible experience with Behlen Epoxy > Putty. I was filling a defect (relatively large) in > the timbers I've been working for my bench and I > choose this product for it's so-called "planability" - > I guess it depends on your definition of planability - > three passes and your blade is dull enough that it > can't cut snow if it was hot as a skillet - hey, this > stuff is planable! > > After sharpening more times than I could count I got > rid of most of it by chopping it out with my poor 2 > inch James Swan socket chisel. I replaced it with > Gorilla Glue which is much nicer although the surface > is porous contrasted with a nice surface from the > epoxy from hell. I plan on doing some pore packing on > the Gorilla Glue then trying to color match it and > blend it in. > > Well, let's hear it all - what glues/adhesives do > you use and in what situations? I think brand names > can be helpful so don't hold back. > > Typical disclaimer - no affiliation except as a > dissatisfied customer of "planable" epoxy and > satisfied customer of Gorilla Glue. > > Come on Glue - t's, STICK it to me! > > Ken Cutting > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158458 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-20 15:44:07 Subject: Steel Square Question I have an R100 V ( think Type 11) logo steel square. Other than some rust an a lot of dirt it is in good shape and as far as I can tell both true square and dead flat. I am going to clean it up and put it back in service but the question is, what color did Stanley use in the numbers? There isn't enough left to have a clue. The only paint left has a faint pink cast and I can't see that as a strong selling point in 1910 though it might find a limited market today. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158459 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-20 14:46:36 Subject: RE: The Pine Blotch Gary, I think that you can safely use a heat gun following the application of Kerosene, just so long as you do it in Australia. Given the typhoon damage in the northeastern part of the country I would recommend heading for Tasmania so as not to offend or take any unnecessary risks in a disaster zone. Americans hanging around scorching Kerosene soaked wood in a disaster area could possibly create an international incident. Since all the blokes in Australia are evidently named Jeff, as I have learned from the List, you might have a difficult time navigating the legal system there. When the magistrate says Stand up Jeff and everyone stands up, but you, they'll know immediately that you are an American named Gary. Those Aussies are very cunning like that. Of course, if you mix your threads and wear checks and stripes together they will also know that you are up to no good and probably an American. I think it would be far better to leave your pine with a natural finish which you can accomplish holistically without leaving the country. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Gary K > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 1:09 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Pine Blotch > > I missed a lot of this thread . . . does anyone but me use > a heat gun to darken pine? Uh, I guess you shouldn't > do this if you've been using kerosene on it or anything, > or am I mixing my threads again? > > Gary K > Close to Buffalo NY, USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158460 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-20 15:06:15 Subject: RE: The Pine Blotch >Since all the blokes in Australia are evidently named Jeff, I hate to disagree with a fellow I-74er (Interstate Highway running through central Illinois, USA, Jeff), but I believe that we established that all the males in Australia, or at least those with old tools proclivities, are named Peter. Peter B (NSW), Peter Evans (NSW), Peter Huisman (Perth), and Peter McBride (Melborne) care to stand and be counted? Rob in Peoria Mr. Manners, what happened? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158461 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-20 16:15:27 Subject: Router Plane SWMBO was shoppig at Big Lots this weekend for gifts for her secret sister at church. I decided to check out the tool section. Found a set of Allen Wrenches for under $2. I figured this was good since I was just going to destroy them. Why buy a really nice set when I just need one wrench? So i took the 3/8 wrench and ground it flat. The GIT helped out after he found his "red thing" (goggles). After grinding we heat tempered it on the gas stove and dunked it in some oil to cool. Good thing SWMBO was gone because it stunk really bad. Started on the body today. Nice maple board. I went to drill a hole with the expansive bit and it was way too big a hole. I succeded in cutting a shallow groove before giving up. Finally cut a little bitty hole and then cut out the rest with the coping saw. I have an eyebolt shaped just right to hold the blade so hopefully soon I'll have some finished pictures to show. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158462 ---- From: "RICHARD FOSTER" Date: 2006-03-20 15:17:29 Subject: Hargrave I-Beam Clamps Good Day Galoots, Does anyone have a source for parts for the Hargrave I-Beam Clamp? I have 10 model 640 that need various small parts. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Dick Foster rfoster22@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158463 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-20 15:56:54 Subject: RE: The Pine Blotch Rob, how foolish of me to forget that particular thread about Australian tool folks named Peter, but there you go again----mixing threads. It sets a dangerous precedent. We now have natural finishes, heat guns, Australian men named Peter or Jeff with exception of Mr. Manners, with old tool proclivities as well as the dangerous nature of Kerosene and odd clothing with mismatched patterns all in one message. How will this ever be archived properly? Just to bring this back to some semblance of order, I will tell you that I love Gorilla Glue when it is appropriate. But, since I see that this message began a long time ago with the problem of Pine Blotch I see no way to combine all of these threads even with the appropriate CA glue and a coat of natural paint or rusty vinegar. Perhaps instead of rusty vinegar we could use balsamic vinegar. Due to its high natural sugar content, it should brown nicely with a heat gun I think. There it goes again--the voices in my head are telling me to begin supper. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Robert Weber > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:06 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Pine Blotch > > >Since all the blokes in Australia are evidently named Jeff, > > I hate to disagree with a fellow I-74er (Interstate Highway running > through > central Illinois, USA, Jeff), but I believe that we established that all > the > males in Australia, or at least those with old tools proclivities, are > named > Peter. > > Peter B (NSW), Peter Evans (NSW), Peter Huisman (Perth), and Peter McBride > (Melborne) care to stand and be counted? > > Rob in Peoria > > Mr. Manners, what happened? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158464 ---- From: bouland@g... Date: 0000-00-00 00:00:00 Subject: newbie bio Sorry for my lack of manners and forgetting to tell you all who I was before stepping out of lurk mode and jumping in with the questions: A bit about me: I’m Andrew Bouland from Belleville, IL (metro St. Louis area) and I’m a ripe old 35 years old. I started getting interested in old tools from the time when I was first allowed to go get myself a coke from the fridge in my grandpa’s garage. The smells and the sights were mystical to me and I guess formed an impression that has slowly worked its way to the surface. I got all of my grandfather’s tools a few years back and thankfully managed to get a few bits of wisdom before he passed. He was by no means a woodworker but was just a man trying to do the best he could by his family making do with what he had and buying wisely when what he had wasn’t good enough (not unlike myself I hope). This more than anything is probably more of what got me into old tools. Along the way I’ve spent many an afternoon of my youth watching St. Roy with my dad and trying out a few of the ideas we saw there. When I got out of college I discovered a few things: that I was broke, that most furniture you could buy new was crap, that most tools for sale new were either crap or out of my ! price range. I started forming my own collection of user tools by hitting yardsales on Saturdays after work and buying every reasonably priced worthwhile tool that I could find/afford. Right now my collection is largely a dull pile of rust but I’ve got enough decent users to keep me functional and I’m slowly starting to make the time to restore some things and separate the wheat from the chaff as it were. I appreciate the tailed apprentices for the time they save me and have even had a bit of a jaunt into the world of the Japanese. While I hope to one day free myself of the tether to the wall outlet, I also have limited time and perhaps am too results oriented right now to be able to do it just yet. In any event I’d like to make it to the grave with both eyes and all of my fingers intact so hopefully I will see the light and cut the cord soon before I get a final glimpse of the flying splinter. Thanks to all for the recent advice and in general to all for the forum and the place to share ideas and wisdom. I’m not far enough along to be able to contribute much but with time hopefully I’ll be able to put back in what I’m getting out right now. Thanks for helping me realize that perhaps 12 saws isn’t necessarily 11 too many and for helping understand that even if you do own 5 No.5s they should never be stacked on their sides all together in plain sight of SWMBO like I have mine now. Future thanks from my daughter for hopefully helping me get my saw/brace/[lane problem under control before my piles of rust take over more than just the garage and basement. Maybe if I teach her “wood shavings on the floor” SWMBO will go a bit easier on me. Thanks again, Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158465 ---- From: "Erik von Sneidern" Date: 2006-03-20 17:43:24 Subject: OT movie was Re: Zelary - the movie (OT content) T. Johnson mentioned a film with OT content: I have another to pass along, though not new. It was a made-for-tv production titled "The Simple Life of Noah Dearborn" starring Sidney Poitier, Dianne Wiest and Mary-Louis Parker. An entirely galoot-type, 91-year-old carpenter seems to stay young and frozen in time as he stays true to his work and character as the world changes and pushes up against him. It is full of handtool woodworking and Poitier's character would be seen as heroic to any of us. It's the feel-good hit of 1999. Worth seeing. Erik von Sneidern www.disstonianinstitute.com > Saw a great movie last night - Zelary -Czech - set in 1943-45 > > OT Content? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158466 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-03-20 17:56:07 Subject: Re: New Galoot intro and questions Hi, Scott (and others) Yes, a scratch stock is the way to go, but you need two blades, both with the same profile, but beveled on opposite sides. One will go around the table in a clockwise direction and the other one counterclockwise. This may sound like an early April Fools joke, but it's not, because as you approach end-grain you need to scrape "downhill". I learned this when making a ship's wheel. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158467 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-20 14:41:11 Subject: My debt to society I guess this is a confession, or maybe a confession of a confession. Last spring about this time I applied to the US Fish and Wildlife office in Galena for a logging permit to gather sticks for BenJen's cabin on a series of islands in the Nowitna Wildlife Refuge. The permit was granted with several conditions, one of which was that we were required to cut the tops and branches into small pieces and scatter them according to some definition that I don't recall. We kind of skipped over reading that part of the permit and just left brush lying pretty much where it fell. That was in early June. Time went by until last fall, just before freezeup, when the acting director of the refuge advised me that I was in violation of the permit, and would have to either pay a (fairly modest) fine or go back up river and cut up the brush piles. So I went in and yakked the issue out with the acting temporary and later with a couple other feds. Turns out that the problem is an emerging invasion of spruce bark beetles, which seem to be moving northerly as the climate warms up. A few years ago beetles hit the Kenai peninsula about 400 miles south of here and wiped out the old growth forest. The F&W position is that leaving brush piles encourages the beetles, and may permit them to get started around here. In fact, I was told, they are actually incubating in the bark of the trees that we killed. Yes, they check on things like that. We talked the problem out for quite a while--is it necessary or realistic to go back and try to fix a small pile of brush in central Alaska, where there must be a few thousand brush piles, and if so, when and how to do the job, given that winter was on the way. I apologized for the screwup and offered/agreed to do whatever they felt was necessary. Our first plan was that Ben and I would fly up river with one or more feds as soon as the snow was suitable to land a ski plane and go bug hunting with chainsaws. That was supposed to happen about last November, but it fell through. The second plan was to make a similar attack this spring, before they emerge from their whatever-it-is spruce beetles do in the winter. So now it's time to revisit that issue, and I stopped in this morning to chew it over with the new regional director. We had a friendly visit (even crime and enforcement can be pretty chummy in a small town), and made plans again for a bug hunting expedition in early June, as soon as the ice and heavy drift goes off the river. So it looks like we have another logging expedition coming up, with the difference that this year we are killing bugs instead of trees. And we have to spend another week camping on bank of the Yukon. As Brier Rabbit said,"Please don't throw me into that brier patch." PK Feeling repentant in Galena, Alaska ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158468 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-03-20 19:20:48 Subject: Re: Zelary - the movie (OT content) GGs, I'll add another movie with OT content. This one is the classic silent film (1922) "Down to the Sea in Ships", dealing with the New Bedford whaling fishery in the 1800s. Following the introductory scenes of the Friends (Quaker) roots of the New England whaling industry, there is a brief clip of activity surrounding preparing a whale ship for sailing. In the midst of this shoreside activity is a brief glimpse of a cooper using one of those big old cooper's planes, aslant on its bipod feet, to trim the staves for a "shuck" to be assembled on ship for a cask to hold whale oil. It is a great clip of a tool being used that is obsolescent today. Of course, as a biologist, I have to comment that later in the film two quick glimpses of a purported sperm whale, are really those of a large white shark. But still, it is a great flick with lots of additional old tool interest. Sandy (in training as a Docent at the New Bedford Whaling Museum) Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158469 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-20 19:26:46 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Peter asks about the galoot logo - > Why is he left handed? Dunno. You would have to ask Brent Parkin, who originated the muscular image many years ago. Sadly, Brent has been MIA for a long time. Oh yeah, let's not forget Rob Brophy's more "realistic" alternative version. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/rBrophy/web/galoot.html Ok, now that the image is safely in the computer I can add the ponytail. I'll post it for all the longhairs out there (you know who you are ;-) MS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158470 ---- From: Robert Hutchins Date: 2006-03-20 19:02:35 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo Peter asks about the galoot logo - Why is he left handed? ========================= I've got a version where he's right handed but don't know how to post it. If someone will reply or ping me offline with instructions, I'll put him up. Bob Hutchins Temple, TX ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158471 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-20 20:52:48 Subject: Re: Danger! Danger Will Robinson! On 18 Mar, 2006, at 8:21 PM, paul schobernd wrote: > It dawns on me after reading and writing about the relative dangers of > stuff > that maybe we can learn something from all of our collective > experiences. > Absolutely, Paul. In a similar vein, today I got an issue of Wood magazine in the mail. I don't think much of it but I got the subscription as a gift, so I try to flip through and glean a little something here and there. Anyway, the last page, about next month's articles, says they will have an accident recap/analysis as a regular column. Great idea, and kudos to the readers who contribute. Maybe other publishers will follow suit. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158472 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-20 20:01:57 Subject: Re: Galoot Logo GG, Peter asks about the galoot logo - > Why is he left handed? Dunno. You would have to ask Brent Parkin, who originated the muscular image many years ago. Sadly, Brent has been MIA for a long time. Oh yeah, let's not forget Rob Brophy's more "realistic" alternative version. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/rBrophy/web/galoot.html Ok, now that the image is safely in the computer I can add the ponytail. I'll post it for all the longhairs out there (you know who you are ;-) MS Does long gone count? Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158473 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-20 20:59:09 Subject: Re: finished my bench Congrats Brian!! Even looking at the pix I can tell it's a very solid bench!! Enjoy it!! I need to start thinking about such a project as I have only a small portable bench right now. I suspect it won't be great for planing. Wendy On Monday 20 March 2006 11:16 am, brian_welch@h... wrote: > I have pretty much finished my new workbench, which I started back in > 2003: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158474 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-20 22:06:50 Subject: Re: The Wedge on Plow and Molding Planes That principle has worked for me in many other similar applications, I bet it would work here as well, particularly in connection with some of the other excellent descriptions of how to take it out. John thomas_ellis@r... writes: If I remember correctly, Patrick Leach used to recommend using your freezer for stubborn wedges. Stick the plane in for awhile, and things tend to shrink a bit. John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. "There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness." Dave Barry. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158475 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-03-20 21:18:47 Subject: newbie bio Welcome to both Andrew and Scott. Hope you find this list as friendly and helpful as I have. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158476 ---- From: "Bret Rochotte" Date: 2006-03-20 22:49:08 Subject: Galoot Movie Hello; Check out "The simple life of Noah Dearborn." Its a story about a carpenter defending his personal property from overly aggressive developers. In the opening scene he makes a peice of crown molding from scratch, then later in the film uses a treadle lathe and treadle scroll saw. A nice movie, certainly well worth watching. Bret Busy making scenery and props for "Cinderella." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158477 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-20 19:57:30 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Hello Everyone, Thanks so much for the public as well as private emails relating your experience with "Pine Blotch." As it has been said before... the Porch is a great and giving place, as well as a fount of knowledge and encouragement. As a result of the responses, it looks like I have a few more test boards to do. I’ll keep everyone posted on what happens and post pictures. I can start out with three "before" photos on Galoot Image Central. 3/4 View: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3702 Quaterfoil End http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3705 Top http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3700 The photos are taken in my driveway on "unloading day" of the table. I think that you’ll see why I did not try to describe the table and bench in words, but wanted to wait until I could post some photos. I believe that the correct description of the pedestals (for the archives) would be flat panels with a quarterfoil cutout, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterfoil ), but when I say that to someone I get that “huh” look - most likely the same look that I would give if someone said it to me! So, now you can see the table’s condition - not bad for being in a garage for 20-years - but definitely in need of some TLC. I’ll post some additional photos of the now-stripped top as well as the new stretcher and sled foot that I’ve applied to brace the two pedestals and to bring the table up to standard height. Thanks again, Steve in Dallas "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne" - The Craftsman ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158478 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-20 23:01:19 Subject: Scott Matthews Napanoch Knife Co. Tool Question In his Question No. 2, Scott Matthews wrote requesting information about a Napanoch Knife Co. tool in a folding case with multiple tool attachments. Scott: I think I can shed some light on the above tool in question. The Napanoch Knife Co., Napanoch, New York made kitchen cutlery and pocket knives from 1901 until 1919. In 1919, Winchester decided to go into the cutlery business so they bought out Napanoch Knife Co. and the Eagle Knife Co. of New Haven, Conn. They moved staff and equipment of both firms to their facility in New Haven, in 1919. In the early 70's I use to collect and trade pocket knives until their prices went out of sight like they are today. The old knives I use to buy for $8, $9, and $10 suddenly were $80, $90, and $100. That's when I took up old tool collecting. Sadly I can see the trend of old tools going in that same direction. Scott, Napanoch was a very rare item to find back in the 70's, I would say even more so today. You have a great find here and would say it is worth quite a bit of change. I would clean it up carefully and take it to the next knife show you find in your area and get it appraised. Should be some in Norfolk, Portsmouth, or maybe at the Hampton Coliseum. Great that you could share with us, Bob Sturgeon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158479 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-20 22:05:56 Subject: Re: Special Weekend GG, As I promised I've posted an account of this weekends class at... http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/woodShop/HomesteadHeritage/Woodworkin- gWithHandTools.asp or http://tinyurl.com/zmw3p Enjoy... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158480 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-20 20:40:50 Subject: Re: Re: Special Weekend -- Roy Griggs wrote: > As I promised I've posted an account of this > weekends class at... http://tinyurl.com/zmw3p Thanks for taking time to do the write-up and take the photos Roy. I know that it is difficult to take a class and document it at the same time. I agree with what Roy said in his write-up. Homestead Heritage’s instructors Paul Sellers and Stan Beckworth are great teachers, and really nice guys to boot. I took the one-day “Woodworking with Hand Tools” class that Roy took a couple of years ago and was impressed enough to sign up for the 3-day “Woodworking Basics” class last year. This April I will be taking the 3-day “Occasional Table” class. For me, all of this leads to the “Craftsman Style Rocking Chair” class next year: https://www.homesteadheritage-woodworking.com/advanced.html OR http://tinyurl.com/hncd3 This is the Rocking Chair featured in Woodwork Magazine in February 2005. If you have the chance to attend one of their workshops, or to just drop by on your way down I-35 to look at the shop and all of the other intersting elements that make up Homestead Heritage, it’s well worth the short detour to do so. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158481 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-20 20:51:57 Subject: Re: New Galoot intro and questions Scott Mathews wrote: My general interests are general woodworking... carving, marquetry, backpacking (AT Trail name "Davey Jones"), and am getting into Kayaking. Welcome Scott... nice to find another backpacker amoung (amongst, Jeff) us oldtool users. I think that you'll find the Porch very helpful in greasing any old tool slope that you can come up with. Steve in Dallas, who should have taken a kayak instead of a backpack this past weekend when he hiked the Little Missouri River in Arkansas this past VERY RAINY weekend. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158482 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-20 23:14:13 Subject: Re: Special Weekend GG, Steve, that is exactly what I would like to do also. And if I keep teasing SWMBO with pictures of the rocker she will get out of the deal, I think I can convince her!!! I'd also like to take a blacksmithing class, and maybe a stained glass class. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158483 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-21 17:42:18 Subject: Re: New Galoot intro and questions Scott Matthews writes: > Tang of cutting blade is marked W. Butcher. Other blades are not marked. > Web seems to indicate this is an after market blade from England. Possibly > a "home made" plane? Dunno whether this helps or confuses. I have, as a long-ago gift from my brother who then traded in antique arms and armour, a knife marked, so far as I can decipher, "W. & S. Butcher" followed on the next line by "J? R. Gravely & Wreaks" and followed on the next line by "New York". The knife, in, as I understand it, the Jim Bowie pattern, is adorned with German silver and with horn scales and has received no use from me in circumstances where it measures 17 1/2" overall and has a blade 12 1/4" long and 2" wide. Daresay the frontiersmen ancestors of some of the Murrican Galoots built their log cabins and quartered their own buffaloes using one of these things as their only tool. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158484 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-21 17:05:25 Subject: Re: Australian Galoots Blown Away? John M. Johnston writes: > I hope our Mates on the northeastern coast of Australia are safe and > sound--looks like quite a cyclone there! Thanks for the thought, John. I note from the T.V. coverage that the verandahs of the old "Exchange Hotel" in Innisfail, some time ago improbably re-named the "Canecutter" after the last cane-cutter had tossed his knife into the cane, a rather large timber building well over 100 years old, appear to have been blown away. I used to stay there quite a bit years ago when my business trips took me north as my wife's aunt was then the licensee. The "Exchange" may probably still be remembered by some Stateside not-so-young fathers and grandfathers as, during war years, it was a favourite watering-hole for many American boys on their way to the Pacific islands and New Guinea for the purpose of talking sweet reason to the gentlemen of the Rising Sun. Innisfail still has some connection with things military from Australia, the U.K. and the U.S. as, within its environs, there is established a testing ground for tropical warfare equipment . Cyclone "Larry" should add an interesting dimension to the testing of the equipment presently there. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158485 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-21 18:35:11 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Robert Weber writes: > I hate to disagree with a fellow I-74er (Interstate Highway running through > central Illinois, USA, Jeff), but I believe that we established that all the > males in Australia, or at least those with old tools proclivities, are named > Peter. > > Peter B (NSW), Peter Evans (NSW), Peter Huisman (Perth), and Peter McBride > (Melborne) care to stand and be counted? Not to mention the learned Mr Peter Marquis-Kyle from sunny, cyclonic Queensland. > Mr. Manners, what happened? I believe that, around the time of my birth, the whole ofAustralia was petrified at the thought that this fair land was about to become a most unwilling vasssal of the Land of the Rising Sun. I simply happened to be an obliging, if unwitting, part of the government's emergency programme to depetrify the country. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158486 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-21 18:11:29 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Paul Schobernd types: and types: O gods! What would one give for such a gift of repartee? And how much more, should it be withheld? Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158487 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-21 00:58:26 Subject: Most recent PWW A week or two back I sent in my subscription for PWW, based on the great articles by Chris Schwarz and Don McConnell. Today I saw the most recent issue on the magazine stand and Rob Cosman has an article on houndstooth dovetails. Chris is really taking the mag in the right direction, IMO, and glad that I subscribed. PWW is turning into one of my favorite woodworking magazines. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158488 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-21 04:17:22 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 12:46 pm, Rodgers Charles wrote: > Brian Buckner's messsage #122680 points us to the > www.ilovewood.com website. Select Alburnum's Archives, then > #58 (puzzle mallet). Charles, Just wanted to thank you again for posting this link, I got the head cut this past weekend, I used a hunk of walnut. I'll be using hickory for the handle and pins. I hope to cut the sockets soon, then will make the handle. On Monday 13 March 2006 04:07 pm, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > Try the 'Bay, search for "Wonders in Wood" by E.M. Wyatt (book) lots of > them available for about $6.00 USD. Thanks also John, I got a vmail today that this and another puzzle book came in at work. I guess I need to go into the office tomorrow...(he says grudgingly, but wants his books;-). -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158489 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-21 08:34:58 Subject: splitting logs I enjoyed John Manners' description of how to split logs. It may be that I've only done ones up to about a foot diameter, but here in the mountains we just start at the end. I look for the natural drying splits in the end of the log and start the wedge in the biggest one. Then I leapfrog wedges until the log splits. Using the go-devil or ax, I sever any still connected fibers. Usually this works fine. I've split lots of locust fence posts this way and split bigger and longer logs for other uses. I've noticed that Americans seem more results oriented and Europeans/Australians seem more process oriented. I go at something using any way that gets 'er done, nevermind how. Phil E., Asheville, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158490 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-21 05:24:07 Subject: Re: Re: Special Weekend At the risk of this thread turning into a private conversation... I took the one-day blacksmithing class last year. It definitely whetted my appetite for the craft. They have a 2-day follow-up blacksmithing class that's in my future as well. Now, to take this thread back in a more general direction... Homestead Heritage holds classes in the homesteading arts using traditional methods, such as organic farming, animal husbandry, beekeeping, gardening, cheese making, pottery, stained glass, basketry, weaving, blacksmithing, etc. -- and of course woodworking. If there is something of interest to your SWMBO / HWMBO, it could be a nice Central Texas learning vacation. Standard disclaimer applies (YMMV)… no affiliation - just a satisfied customer. Steve in Dallas "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne" - The Craftsman ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158491 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-21 13:39:41 Subject: Re: Re: Special Weekend roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, As I promised I've posted an account of this weekends class at... (read and enjoyed) I'm a little concerned at this: http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/woodShop/HomesteadHeritage/class_3_18- _06_008.jpg I have a write up concerning the practice, and some recommendations: http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#mortice_hold BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158492 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-21 08:57:10 Subject: RE: Re: Special Weekend I followed Bugbear's link, and came across this little gem on marking one dovetail piece from another (which had, of course, completely flown my little memory coop ages ago): Since the task is to hold one piece at right angles to the other, why not simply use a clamp designed explicitly for this purpose? Get yourself a pair of cheapo aluminium (not cast iron - too cumbersome) "corner clamps" and clamp your workpieces as shown. You can fiddle and adjust to your hearts content. When the workpieces are exactly aligned, tighten the clamps. You can mark the joints when ready. In fact you could mark 2 pins, have your lunch, come back, and then mark another pin - the work ain't going anywhere...(Followed by attributions).... It's so neat how the most obvious answers are often the most elegant, but not so neat on how easy it is to forget them. Tom Ellis Dayton OH > > I'm a little concerned at this: > > http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/woodShop/HomesteadHeritage/c > lass_3_18_06_008.jpg > > I have a write up concerning the practice, and some > recommendations: > > http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#mortice_hold > > BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158493 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-21 08:12:24 Subject: RE: Re: Special Weekend I'm going to jump on Paul's bandwagon, too. Did they really advocate at the class chopping mortises directly over the vise? Seems like an invitation to damage and misalignment. While the Paul's link would work just fine, I chop mortises on my WorkMutt and just sit on the piece while I'm doing it, or secure the piece between the dogs on the Mutt (is that redundant?) I think that at a bench you could secure the work between dogs in either the face vise or tail vise. Chopping as close to directly over a leg is advised, as well. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of paul womack Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:40 AM To: roygriggs@v... Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:Special Weekend roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > As I promised I've posted an account of this weekends class at... (read and enjoyed) I'm a little concerned at this: http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/woodShop/HomesteadHeritage/class_3_18_06_0 08.jpg I have a write up concerning the practice, and some recommendations: http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#mortice_hold BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158494 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-21 14:11:44 Subject: OT - spamming OLDTOOLS? Is anyone else getting unrequested emails from these people? http://www.thewoodexplorer.com/client/ I've been getting around 1 a fortnight, and I'm wondering which forum they've been harvesting. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158495 ---- From: "Lawrence H. Smith" Date: 2006-03-21 09:21:19 Subject: This Weekend In Saratoga Springs At the risk of stealing somone who's actually enough of a Joiner to have paid their dues and joined up's thunder, and not having seen it come through the list yet, the Northeastern Woodworkers Association is having their annual Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY this weekend (Sat/Sun 10-5). Aside from having a past history of being a fun time for all, the featured demonstrator list includes Mr. Hack and Mr. Underhill, as well as a Ms. Masaschi and a Mr. Fox, who do not strike the household name recognition bell in my household, but appear to know what they are doing from the blurb on the website. Often the "not so featured" demonstrators are just as fine. http://www.nwawoodworkingshow.org/ "Perhaps I'll join when I'm more of a woodworker and less of a woodworking shop one-man construction crew", or something like that... -- -Lawrence H Smith, Librarian/Computarian for Buxton School and Woodworker -lsmith@s... Cats, Coffee, Chocolate... Vices to live by. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158496 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-21 09:34:42 Subject: Re: This Weekend In Saratoga Springs Terri Masaschi frequently contributes to the column on finishing in Fine Woodworking ("finish line") tim raleigh NC "Lawrence H. Smith" Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/21/2006 09:21 AM To oldtools@r... cc Subject [OldTools] This Weekend In Saratoga Springs At the risk of stealing somone who's actually enough of a Joiner to have paid their dues and joined up's thunder, and not having seen it come through the list yet, the Northeastern Woodworkers Association is having their annual Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY this weekend (Sat/Sun 10-5). Aside from having a past history of being a fun time for all, the featured demonstrator list includes Mr. Hack and Mr. Underhill, as well as a Ms. Masaschi and a Mr. Fox, who do not strike the household name recognition bell in my household, but appear to know what they are doing from the blurb on the website. Often the "not so featured" demonstrators are just as fine. http://www.nwawoodworkingshow.org/ "Perhaps I'll join when I'm more of a woodworker and less of a woodworking shop one-man construction crew", or something like that... -- -Lawrence H Smith, Librarian/Computarian for Buxton School and Woodworker -lsmith@s... Cats, Coffee, Chocolate... Vices to live by. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158497 ---- From: "Thomas Graham" Date: 2006-03-21 10:15:49 Subject: Tool ID Help GGs, I work part-time a the new Woodcraft store in Leesburg, VA (yes, a shamless plug). Had a gentleman come in yesterday with some tools he wondered if we/I could identify. They had come from a toolbox he had acquired from a relative who had oworked restoring the USS Constellation in Baltimore (I think). There were about six of them. All are about 7-8 inches long. Each consists of a 1/4 inch or so steel rod with a round steel ball on either end. The balls varied in size from 1/4 inch to about an inch in diameter. There seemed to be a dried adhesive residue on some of the balls and the connecting rod. Any ideas of what he has.? I suspect something pattern or mold making (as in foundry) related. Something for shapping fillets on patterns? He came in to the store last week with six steel rules, all indicating they were 12 inches , but all of different length. Some were Starrett, some Lufkin. I told him they were shrink rules. Closer inspection of the rules revealed the stamps gave amount of shrink. Thus, the pattern/mold possibility. I'd like to help him ID these tools as well. Maybe I can get to see the toolbox. Sorry for not having photos. TIA, Tom Graham Round Hill, VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158498 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-21 07:21:45 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Oops.. I see that I mis-linked one of my photo links in the earlier email. Here is the correction (I hope): Btter View of the Top: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3706 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158499 ---- From: "Robert Fortier" Date: 2006-03-21 11:22:19 Subject: TR: [OldTools] Tool ID Help -----Message d'origine----- De : Robert Fortier Envoyé : 21 mars 2006 10:43 À : 'Thomas Graham' Objet : RE: [OldTools] Tool ID Help Hi Is the USS Constellation a wooden ship ??? If so, the ball-on-rod thing might be use to put the kinda rope (étoupe in French) that goes between the plank on the hull to make it water-tight. My two cents.... Bob in Sherbrooke, Province of Québec ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158500 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-21 10:46:51 Subject: Re: Tool ID Help Those are filleting tools, used to push the warm wax into place. Used as well to push the leather fillets into place. Glue is used on the leather to stick. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158501 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-03-22 00:29:24 Subject: Update on bio Esteemed Galoots-of-the-Porch It is a few years since I offered an all too brief bio, and this has served to obfuscate any attempt at penetrating my true identity. I have been meaning to provide an update for some time, but both time and a healthy dose of procrastination have been my enermies. A short while ago, Sawmill Creek did the Unwise and published an interview. Because I really cannot go through this more than once, I have copied it here for your edification ... or amusement. At least there are a few pictures to keep you from nodding off. There are a few others who also frequent Sawmill Creek and will no doubt shortly be receiving the same treatment - Mike Wenzloff, Alan duBoff and Alf, just to name three. Kind regards from Perth Derek 1. Name (and nick names) Derek Cohen 2. Age/DOB I am 56, date of birth 11th January 1950 3. Location (present and previous) I was born in Cape Town, South Africa in the shadow of Table Mountain. Growing up amidst the political conflict and social inequality were foundation experiences that have clearly influenced my outlook on life. In the very early 80s, when political change was looking like it was not going to happen (and, indeed, it was moving in the opposite-to-desired direction, with increasing conservatism and racism), my wife and I migrated to Australia to offer our children a normal life. We lived in Sydney for a few years before moving west across the country to Perth for the laid-back lifestyle, sun and surf. We have been in Perth 18 years now and live in a small, leafy suburb alongside the Swan River. 4. Tell us about your family. There is Lynndy, the LOML, who is the most warm and nurturing person I know, a kindergarten teacher all her adult years, until 12 months ago when she resigned and started a business with her best friend. And Jamie, our 13 year old son, would-be pro tennis player and would-be rock guitarist, who has just begun high school and discovered the angst of teenagerhood. Oh, I should not leave out Rufus, the two-year old golden retriever whose hobby is re-arranging the back garden. Thanks to him I have now taken up landscaping! Our parents continue to live in Cape Town. We have brothers and sisters scattered around the world. My dad is turning 92 in June and still climbs up on the roof to clean the gutters! He was an award-winning architect and I blame him for my love of wood and an interest in design. As I write this I look across the living room to a pair of modern-looking bentwood armchairs. They were subsequently built in Czechoslovakia in 1939, and the last exports from that country before Hitler invaded. My mother was a journalist and, in later years, ran a business selling collectables as well as an art gallery. She continues to work in a consultancy role. There are some serious writers on her side of the family and I guess I had little choice but to develop an interest in writing as well! As you all have gathered about my style by now, why use one word when a dozen will do? http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Dadschairs.jpg 5. How do you earn a living, woodworking or other, any interesting previous occupations. After completing high school I attended university (college) to train as a quantity surveyor (which is the accounting end of the building industry). The positive was that I did get to work on building sites and study construction, but otherwise found this so boring, that I dropped out after a couple of years. I returned to university to study journalism, then switched to a major in psychology, taking this through several degrees to qualify as a clinical psychologist. I have specialized in child psychology since 1983, working in hospitals, clinics, and private practice over the years. I am currently in full time private practice. I came to woodworking like many hobbyists % as a result of home repairs. Well, it was probably a bit more than that. I have always been Mister Fix-it a role I had in my childhood where I was forever repairing all-and-sundry (or, as Lynndy is fond of saying, being a compulsive modifier). I guess I have always tinkered. Over the past few decades I renovated houses we bought usually doing most of the work myself. Our current home began as a brick-and-tile shell, and I have completed built-in cabinets, doors, trim, and quite a bit of the furniture, such as beds, wardrobes, and sideboards. As my constructions became more sophisticated, so I turned increasing away from the Normite approach to the Neander. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/bed.jpg http://i13.photobucket com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/WardrobeinHoopPineandJarrah2.jpg http://i13.photobucket com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/SideboardinKarriandPly2.jpg My interest in woodworking centers around building furniture and tools, it has also developed into an interest about its historical and social influences. I am now enjoying woodworking increasingly as an artistic outlet not just as a way of just unwinding from work. I see that this is due to my emphasis on handtools. In the past few years my teacher-scientist-historian side has had an outlet in researching and writing reviews on handtools, as well as running workshops on techniques in using hand-planes or sharpening. Of course I continue to be as much of a compulsive tinkerer as ever, and have designed and built many jigs and tools over the years. 6. Equipment overview (hand tools and other) I have both power and handtools. The power side is not as extensive as many, as I do not own the thicknesser/planer/jointer dimensioning machines. I do have a large 12" tablesaw with sliding table and in-built router table, a 14" bandsaw (with 6" riser), a floor standing drill press, a large belt sander (used to grind blades) and a lathe. There are the usual Normite range of circular saws, jigsaws, biscuit joiner, powered and battery drills, routers, and so on one would expect from a home renovator. Most of these languish in cabinets or gather dust now as my interest in developing my handskills has grown over the past 7 or 8 years especially. Woodworking is now synonymous with handtooling, and I have an array of both old and new handtools, some collectable(-ish) and some I have built myself. Working wood in Australia places added demands on the tools and steel used. We have seriously hard and gnarly wood here. It commands much respect, but it certainly returns the favour in its beauty. The wooden handplanes by HNT Gordon are just wonderful, offering both form and function. I have been fortunate to review and obtain many of the Veritas handplanes, especially the bevel-up ones, and these have a superior ability to tame the rebellious nature of Aussie timber. I do own several block-, edge and side rabbet planes by LN as well. When there is an opportunity to work softwoods, or easier hardwoods, I often reach for the Stanley planes (in the main these are USA-made versions). It is difficult to convey the breadth of the handtools I have without making it sound like a gloat list, so I will suffice to say that there are Stanley combination planes, various block planes, a half set of York pitch H&Rs, and a budding collecting of molding planes. I have this huge curiosity about handtools and I want to try them all out. I have far too many chisels for one lifetime! I do so love using chisels % the sense of connectedness to wood is only rivaled by spokeshaves and block planes. Bergs for paring, Witherbys for general work, Nooitgedacht for rough work, Iyoroi butt chisels and Matsumura dovetail chisels, vintage UK firmer and oval bolstered mortice chisels (such as Sorby and Ward). I am increasingly taken with handsaws as my confidence grows. Several Disston and Spear & Jackson rip and crosscut saws, vintage 12" Disston and 14" Nurse tenon saws, and 4 or 5 dovetail saws. I recently built a stairsaw for dados and sliding dovetails, and at the end of last year I actually won a medal at a woodworking show for a bowsaw. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools that I have made/StairsawcomboWC.jpg http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools that I have made/1Bowsaw.jpg Both Mike and Leif have been a huge inspiration for me, and now I am determined to make a few dovetail and tenon saws of my own. Thanks guys! 7. Describe your shop The shop consists of most of a double garage, and the tool cabinets take up 1 ½ walls. Still, it is space shared with the family and there is one wall of windsurfing gear. The open rafters serve as storage for lumber. The shop doubles for metalwork as well. It is also home to a vintage Porsche 356 (1957 "A" Coupe) that I have been restoring for about 8 years. I have done all the panel work myself, and had help with the mechanics and electrics. It is now at the point where I can drive it to work some days. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench and Workshop/Workshoptools2.jpg The "real" workshop looks like this! http://i13.photobucket com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Realworkshop.jpg 8. Tell us about the handplanes you own, and your favorites one(s) to use Two stand out. One is a Stanley #62 (low angle jack) that I restored. The other is a Stanley #65 Knucklejoint block plane. Both have a light, almost delicate balance that aids the illusion that they are an extension of one's hand. I have built a few planes % an infill smoother, a chamfer plane, and a dovetail plane. I am in the early stages of a Stanley #51 copy (with low angle modifications). I like the idea of building more planes in the future. 9. Your favorite chisels. I have a set of dovetail chisels I made from unhandled Berg orphans. I ground the sides and turned the handles to suit my grip. They are for pushing only and have an incredible delicate feel. At the other end of the spectum I have discovered oval bolstered mortice chisels. I have had fun making up a set and building handles from different hardwoods. These provide tremendous control and slice into wood like nothing else. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/image002.jpg http://i13.photobucket com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/OvalBolsteadMorticeChiselsWC.jpg 10. Your favorite handsaw(s). My LN Independence dovetail is moving up the list. It is a beautifully made and balanced saw, but it has been more difficult to get to work comfortably. It is becoming the saw I hear so many rave about. I have an old, much pre-loved (not-as-pretty!) John Cotterill dovetail saw that I renovated and sharpened. It has a similar feel, is just as accurate but cuts less aggressively and with less effort. 11. Do you use western tools or Japanese, why do you prefer the ones you use I have a number of Japanese chisels and saws. The chisels are often the ones I turn to first if I plan to chop into hardwood. With their short, hooped handles, I find them less comfortable for paring. The saws are simply the easiest and cleanest to use of all types. However they are better suited for soft woods, for which they are reserved, since our Aussie hardwoods sound the death knell for their teeth. 12. Do you have a woodworking home page. At this time I am scattered over the internet. You can find some of my reviews at http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/index.asp and articles at http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl I am in the process of putting together a website at wkfinetools.com. This will then bring together much of the above and much more. 13. Do you have any influences in your work. Certain styles or designers you follow/prefer. My taste in furniture is for simple lines with good proportions and subtle curves (my designs are increasingly including curves, such as this recent Jarrah and Blackbutt sofa table). And the use of interesting grains to set these off. Shaker and Japanese designs, the work of Maloof, Krenov, and Nakashima. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Sofatable.jpg 14. Do you have any ancestors who were woodworkers that served as inspiration. I am filled with a mix of envy and wonder for those who own tools handed down through the generations. I suspect that I am the first woodworker in my family. My father was a boy scout and taught me to use an axe, tie a knot, and start a fire. This has not been terribly helpful when building fine furniture! On the other hand, my childhood included camping out among the forests, and dad was ahead of his time in building our home with woods from around the world. 15. What is your favorite neander project, or part of a project, you have ever done and why. Two stand out. The first was a Shaker chest of drawers I built for my son a few years ago. I intended that he keep it when he one day moves away, so have left a couple of messages secreted in the construction. http://i13.photobucket com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/ChestofdrawersforJamie.jpg The second piece is just a simple box that I made for my mother. It was her 80th birthday and the box was used to transport her perfume present. Needless to say, she preferred the box to the perfume (isn't that what mums do?). http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=5427 http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=5440 16. Do you believe there is any spiritual dimension to woodworking with handtools. I think "spiritual" may be going a bit too far. Perhaps "intimate" would be more appropriate, as in the artist with a brush and palette. Handtools allow for a delicacy of movement, the opportunity to add subtleties that power tools cannot approach. I find no pleasure in, for example, donning earmuffs, mask and safety glasses to use a router table. The neander workshop is a quiet and relaxing refuge from the stresses of deadlines and the intense exchanges at work. My best time is a quiet Sunday morning, with the stereo playing 60s and 70s jazz % the piano of Bill Evans, a selection of handtools and a drawer to dovetail… 17. How much of your work is done by handtools. Do you use whatever is best for the job or do you use handtools even when they are less efficient. Most of my wood comes from salvage yards. Old Jarrah, Blackbutt and Bluegum floorboards and roof beams dominate. These are seriously hard woods, and there is no way I am going to try to rip them to rough size with a handsaw! For this I will use a tablesaw or bandsaw. Crosscuts are another matter, and I will use a carcass saw or a mitrebox. I may also use the bandsaw to resaw and to shape curves. As I mentioned earlier, I do not own a planer/thicknesser/jointer, so all further work is completed with handplanes % a variety of scrub planes, jack planes, try planes, and jointer planes. I use a shooting board, refine curves with spokeshaves and finish the surface with one of many smoothers. I rarely have to use sandpaper (I would if I needed to) and generally find card scrapers are sufficient backup if the smoothers are not enough. 18. What is your single most favourite tool, and why. A sharp paring chisel Derek Cohen March 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158502 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-21 09:26:52 Subject: Corporate sponsorship GGs-- Here's one for those fans of the earlier production of America's favorite manufacturer of garage door openers, among whom I count myself: http://www.comiczone.com/creators/rubes/index.html If you come to this after March 21, go to the calendar below whatever comes up, and click on 3/21. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158503 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-21 12:44:11 Subject: RE: Galoot Logo I've still got two, and the sweatshirt! > >Dennis - wondering how many Type 1 shirts still exist Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158504 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-21 12:56:05 Subject: RE: Hammer Question My wife collects hammers, it took me nearly two years to find an affordable copy of Hammer to give to her as a present. Its now sits on her reading table next to the couch in the basement TV room. An easier book that is more useful, at least I find it more useful, is Salaman's "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools", there is probably 30-50 pages on different types/kinds of hammers, illustrations, etc. I find it easier to find a special type of hammer there than in the hammer book. Gary (probably one of the few guys-although not the only one-that can give his wife a tool, i.e., hammers or book binding tools for Christmas, Birthdays, etc.) >My apologies. I just did a web search for this book and only >found one >copy - for $395.00. It is a very handy paperback that I have used >often, but I wouldn't pay that for another copy! >> Check your copy of "The Hammer" (by the late Ron Baird and Dan >> Comerford). Every galoot does have a copy of this, I hope. >> Unfortunately, I don't know of a current source for this >book - unless ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158505 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-21 14:49:54 Subject: Re: Most recent PWW Al praises PWW magazine and it's editor. I couldn't agree more. That is why I subscribed some months back. Also, of note is that Chris Schwarz is a great guy. I had the opportunity to meet him at the WW'ing show last year and was very impressed with his knowledge and helpful personality. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158506 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-21 14:56:26 Subject: Re: Tool ID Help What you have are pattern maker's tools. The balls on the shaft are for making fillets in wax or leather. The rules are shrink rules, used to measure pattern parts for a specific metal eg. brass aluminum, cast iron etc.. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Graham" To: "Old Tools List Msg" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:15 AM Subject: [OldTools] Tool ID Help > GGs, > I work part-time a the new Woodcraft store in Leesburg, VA (yes, a shamless > plug). Had a gentleman come in yesterday with some tools he wondered if > we/I could identify. They had come from a toolbox he had acquired from a > relative who had oworked restoring the USS Constellation in Baltimore (I > think). > > There were about six of them. All are about 7-8 inches long. Each consists > of a 1/4 inch or so steel rod with a round steel ball on either end. The > balls varied in size from 1/4 inch to about an inch in diameter. There > seemed to be a dried adhesive residue on some of the balls and the > connecting rod. > > Any ideas of what he has.? I suspect something pattern or mold making (as > in foundry) related. Something for shapping fillets on patterns? He came > in to the store last week with six steel rules, all indicating they were 12 > inches , but all of different length. Some were Starrett, some Lufkin. I > told him they were shrink rules. Closer inspection of the rules revealed > the stamps gave amount of shrink. Thus, the pattern/mold possibility. > > I'd like to help him ID these tools as well. Maybe I can get to see the > toolbox. Sorry for not having photos. > > TIA, > Tom Graham > Round Hill, VA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158507 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-21 12:09:53 Subject: Re: Re: Special Weekend On Tuesday 21 March 2006 05:24 am, Steven Longley wrote: > Homestead Heritage holds classes in the homesteading > arts using traditional methods, such as organic > farming, animal husbandry, beekeeping, gardening, > cheese making, pottery, stained glass, basketry, > weaving, blacksmithing, etc. -- and of course > woodworking. If there is something of interest to > your SWMBO / HWMBO, it could be a nice Central Texas > learning vacation. Oh, that's good to know...this could be a win-win...get SWMBO to take the gardening class, while I go off and take chair class , and out of the deal we get a nice looking yard, and I get a nice rocker to sit back and look at it in...;-) It sounds win-win to me... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158508 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-21 12:20:30 Subject: Re: Most recent PWW On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:49 pm, Bill Rittner wrote: > Al praises PWW magazine and it's editor. > > I couldn't agree more. That is why I subscribed some months back. > > Also, of note is that Chris Schwarz is a great guy. I had the opportunity > to meet him at the WW'ing show last year and was very impressed with his > knowledge and helpful personality. Bill, Chris is a true mensch, and his taking over editor of PWW has changed the magazine 180 degrees. It is truely becoming my favorite woodworking magazine, and it just continues to get better. Chris has been most helpful in email, and responsive, and is truely kicking @$$ in the editor's chair for PWW. The recent acceleration of PWW would appear to align itself with the Goy Roy show. The more hand tool info, the better, IMO. I like Chris' thoughts on the modern shop, being that some tailed apprentices will be used to dimension the timbers, and then hand work can complete it. That is exactly what I've been planning to do with my shop. BTW, a plug for Don McConnell. Don has also had great articles in PWW as of recent and he works in the "Hand-Saw Makers of Britan" is very useful to me. Thanks for sharing so much with us on the porch Don, and thanks to Chris for publishing Don's articles. Great stuff... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158509 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-21 16:29:01 Subject: Re: Most recent PWW On 21 Mar, 2006, at 3:58 AM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > Chris is really taking the mag in the right direction. > PWW is turning into one of my favorite woodworking magazines. > > Hello all - Ditto to that. Another mag I'd like to recommend is Woodwork, a fairly young publication. They are still finding their way, but always seem to have an article or two with a fresh view. There are a lot of profiles of craftspeople and some interviews, which is good. There is usually a photo tutorial of a project, most of which are better designed than the typical stuff in other mags. One editorial slant that seems to be a high priority is promoting the return of trades education to public schools. Two caveats: - OT content is sometimes minimal. However, even when power tools are used, the focus seems to be on the project and its design, rather than the tools. - Many styles of work are covered, with a significant emphasis on the fine art/high design arena (basically the territory that Fine Woodworking started out in). I enjoy the coverage but if you don't care for that type thing, I you might not find much to hold your interest. If you look up the subscription on Amazon, there are some reviews that describe the content accurately. Woodwork is published 6 times a year by Ross Periodicals. No affiliation. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158510 ---- From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" Date: 2006-03-21 16:41:47 Subject: Re: This Weekend In Saratoga Springs Along the lines of the PWW thread and that magazine's increased coverage of galootish ways. Here are the unambiguously galootish sessions at the NWA Woodworker's Showcase: Metallurgy & Heat Treating For Woodworkers Making Edge Tools - Michael Miller Sharpening and Using Scrapers - Chuck Walker The Woodwright's Way From Forest To Furniture - Roy Underhill Build A Shaker Chair With Hand Tools- Alden Witham Hand Cut Dovetails- Paul Petrie The Joiner's Trade - Bench Woodworking For The New Hand Tool Age- Roy Underhill Tuning A Japanese Hand Plane - John Reed Fox Smoothing Surfaces With Hand Planes- Garrett Hack Coupled with another handful of turning, finishing and general wood oriented discussion this show is quite galootish. All in all it's a nice time to be a galoot. The full session schedule, BTW is at: http://www.nwawoodworkingshow.org/seminar_schedule.htm Keith In Ballston Lake which is only 10 miles south of Saratoga Springs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158511 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-21 16:08:35 Subject: Re: Special Weekend GG, Paul writes...roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, As I promised I've posted an account of this weekends class at... (read and enjoyed) I'm a little concerned at this: http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/woodShop/HomesteadHeritage/class_3_18- _06_008.jpg I have a write up concerning the practice, and some recommendations: http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#mortice_hold BugBear As a normal practice I would not do this...But not having any other way to hold the small piece of pine that I was chopping a mortice in, I resorted to the vice. I hate trying to work on a moving piece of wood!!! BTW Paul Sellers also used the vice (I just thought it to be an English quirk!!!8^) ) as did all the other students who I observed. Were I doing this at home the wood would have been held in place by a holdfast by PK or in a vice/dog grip or (my personal favorite for small pieces) in a twin screw wood clamp which is then clamped to the bench. Thank you, for pointing this out...maybe an addendum to disclaim the appropriateness of that particular technique. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158512 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-21 16:59:24 Subject: Re: Most Recent PWW GG, Alan says... Ditto to that. Another mag I'd like to recommend is Woodwork, a fairly young publication. They are still finding their way, but always seem to have an article or two with a fresh view. I'm gonna chime in on this one to the tune that PWW has become the rag I look forward to most, FWW has slipped to #2 followed by Alan's recommended Wood Work. And all the rest are just riding out their subscriptions... The joy in Wood Work is the unusual things that they present...soaring turned sculptures...wooden timepieces extrodinaire... The quality of photography and magazine are rivaled only by FWW in the American WW mag market IMHO. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158513 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-21 17:05:10 Subject: RE: OT movie was Re: Zelary - the movie (OT content) >I have another to pass along, though not new. >It was a made-for-tv production titled "The Simple >Life of Noah Dearborn" starring Sidney Poitier, >Dianne Wiest and Mary-Louis Parker. An entirely >galoot-type, 91-year-old carpenter seems to stay young >and frozen in time as he stays true to his work and >character as the world changes and pushes up >against him. It is full of handtool woodworking >and Poitier's character would be seen as heroic >to any of us. It's the feel-good hit of 1999. http://tinyurl.com/h5c7r shows a preview....looks interesting. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158514 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-21 17:32:59 Subject: Re: Special Weekend GG, Steven says... Homestead Heritage holds classes in the homesteading arts using traditional methods, such as organic farming, animal husbandry, beekeeping, gardening, cheese making, pottery, stained glass, basketry, weaving, blacksmithing, etc. -- and of course woodworking. If there is something of interest to your SWMBO / HWMBO, it could be a nice Central Texas learning vacation. Three small points I would like to add to this... These people are not "artisans", they live the life so those who teach not only gain their livelyhood from these activities but also their sustanance. Non Texas residents need to be aware that this (Homestead Heritage Village) is in Central Texas and in the summer it gets Warm and Humid, not unbearably so, but you should be aware. SWMBO might not think it a favor to be working in the garden when it's 96 in the shade with 80 per cent humidity. And last but not least, once you get to Texas you ain't gonna want to leave.... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158515 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-22 07:32:48 Subject: R: Special Weekend - Vice held timber Paul wrote in part: I'm a little concerned at this: http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/woodShop/HomesteadHeritage/class_3_18- _06_008.jpg I have a write up concerning the practice, and some recommendations: http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#mortice_hold PeterH chips in: A picture truly is worth a thousand words. The portrayal of the bench supported mortice under construction, will live forever in my mind's eye. All the more because the description of it held by a vice, immediately conjures up the very reasons why not to do it so. I daresay that this method of supporting a workpiece under duress of hammer or mallet will save many vices and / or points of attachment to workbench. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158516 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-21 19:09:31 Subject: Best Combination Plane Storage Esteemed GG's Some years ago while attending a local tool meet, I came across a really neat craftsman made tool box for a Stanley 45. It seemed that there was a place for every item: Irons, long and short arms, all stops, screwdriver, etc. The design was effective in keeping the parts in place (most stood vertically), and was also very efficient in terms of space. And it looked good! This was the Studly Chest of Combination Planes! I thought about buying it, just because the original craftsman/woman had come up with and executed such a great design. Well, of course you guessed it: I did not buy it. But I wish I had! So, the question is: What is the neatest craftsman/woman made storage box that you have seen for a combination plane? If you haven't seen the neatest, what is the neatest box that you can think of? Looking forward to a fun discussion! Chris In West Lafayette, IN, disappointed that we did not get a REAL snow storm on the first day of spring! (We just got a whimpy 1.5 inches) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158517 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-03-21 19:13:51 Subject: scary sharp question GG: I've been on a sharpening jag lately. Nearly busted multiple times by SWMBO with too many edge tools in a single location. I've sharpened everything I own through 1500 grit silicone carbide. That's the highest grit that was handy at the local hardware store. On finishing and putting everything away, I thought I'd see if a plane blade was ' hair off the arm sharp.' No go. Need I go finer on my grit, or reexamine my technique. If the former, at what level should I likely experience success? Regards, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158518 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-21 19:28:17 Subject: Tannic Acid Source? I've done some searching for tannic acid for Jim's ebonizing technique and what I have found seems expensive. ($169 for 500gms) I don't need this much, maybe 100 grams or so. Does anyone have a source to satisfy this old cheapskate? As always thanks for any help/comments you can give. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158519 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-21 19:29:06 Subject: RE: scary sharp question Technique, almost certainly. I can usually get hair at about 600 grit. Here's what I've learned: 1) Make sure that the bevel on your chisel is flat, and use it as the reference surface. I don't do the micro bevel, secondary bevel or whatever you want to call it - all of my edge tools have 2 planes: the back and the bevel. They intersect at the edge. You really need to be able to keep that reference surface flat on the glass...... 2) it can be easier if you use some sort of adhesive to hold the sandpaper to the glass. I don't bother though. 3) if you don't use an adhesive, and use a push stroke (cutting edge moving into the paper), its easy to get a small roll or bubble in front of the edge, which will give you a dull edge. I always use a pull stroke. 4) don't ever try to speed things up by using a fast back and forth stroke. No matter what you do, you'll introduce a curve..... 5) do the back of the blade, then the bevel, then move to the next finer grit. 6) in order to be able to tell when you are done with a grit do the following (I use this on both the bevel and the back): Instead of drawing the tool straight back, pull it to one side, so that the scratches on the surface are not parallel to the blade. When you go to the next grit, pull to the other side. When the first set of scratches is no longer visible, you're done. Alternate until the last grit, *then* pull straight back until the angled scratches disappear. I use the following grits (starting point depends on condition of blade): 220, 360, 400, 600, 1000, 1500, 2000. I hone (at 2000) after every use just to make sure I don't have to spend time doing a repair. My final strop is the palm of my hand.... YMMV Good luck -_JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Mike Hamilton Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:14 PM To: tool list Subject: [OldTools] scary sharp question GG: I've been on a sharpening jag lately. Nearly busted multiple times by SWMBO with too many edge tools in a single location. I've sharpened everything I own through 1500 grit silicone carbide. That's the highest grit that was handy at the local hardware store. On finishing and putting everything away, I thought I'd see if a plane blade was ' hair off the arm sharp.' No go. Need I go finer on my grit, or reexamine my technique. If the former, at what level should I likely experience success? Regards, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158520 ---- From: Christopher Biggs Date: 2006-03-22 10:54:04 Subject: Re: Tannic Acid Source? On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Bill Rittner wrote: > I've done some searching for tannic acid for Jim's ebonizing > technique and > what I have found seems expensive. ($169 for 500gms) I don't need > this much, > maybe 100 grams or so. Does anyone have a source to satisfy this old > cheapskate? Home brew stores. Tannic acid is used in wine production, and a 100g sachet should cost a few dollars. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158521 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-21 20:01:20 Subject: Re: Tannic Acid Source? Bill Rittner wrote: > I've done some searching for tannic acid for Jim's ebonizing technique and > what I have found seems expensive. ($169 for 500gms) I don't need this much, > maybe 100 grams or so. Does anyone have a source to satisfy this old > cheapskate? > Well iffn you can stand not being really exacting in the recipe, visit Master John the Artificer at www.icubed.com/users/jrose/ and buy $1 worth (5-6) oak galls, which are a major ingredient in a lot of medieval inks. Some of our local SCA (www.sca.org Jeff)) scribes have been playing with them, I gather they are about the size of small golf balls.... Look under art supplies. Also a source of a lot of pigments, some very poisenous and not generally available in large quantities, in little 4 ml vials. Genuine start with crushed rocks ultramarine anybody? Otherwise see if Sinopia or Kremer carry any such thing, they are major pigment suppliers and it might be a sideline. Or try googling under something like calligraphy ink supplies. Esther (ska Lady Otelia d'Alsace) -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158522 ---- From: "Clay Risenhoover" Date: 2006-03-21 18:55:08 Subject: RE: Tannic Acid Source? Bill asked about cheap tannic acid. Clay is glad to finally get to answer something... Bill, you can do what I did, and boil up a few acorns (I have a dozen or so oak trees on my place), and use the water from that - it is loaded with tannic acid. Just boil until the water is about the right color. It really does work. Funny thing, though, after a few days the juice got a little rank. Apparently you can use a number of natural sources for tannic acid, including sumac leaves. Or... you can try what I'm going to try next but haven't gotten around to yet: buy your tannic acid from a place that sells yarn dyes. Apparently people who dye yarn use the stuff to prepare it for color, just like we do for ebonizing. I have not ordered any this way, but here is one site I found last time I was searching. I'll bet this stuff would work for ebonizing. http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/dye_tannicacid.shtml If you try it and it does work, please let us know. If I get around to it, I'll do the same. Clay ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158523 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-21 17:29:00 Subject: Re: scary sharp question On Mar 21, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Mike Hamilton wrote: > GG: > > I've been on a sharpening jag lately. Nearly busted multiple times by > SWMBO with too many edge tools in a single location. I've sharpened > everything I own through 1500 grit silicone carbide. That's the > highest grit that was handy at the local hardware store. On finishing > and putting everything away, I thought I'd see if a plane blade was ' > hair off the arm sharp.' No go. Need I go finer on my grit, or > reexamine my technique. If the former, at what level should I likely > experience success? > If you just enjoy rubbing a tool on sandpaper, scary sharp is as good a way to sharpen as any. But I didn't enjoy it. I prefer to use my tools, not spend my time sharpening them. And so I set up a hard felt wheel, and that took most of the work out of sharpening. Several galoots have also gone that route, and I haven't heard any complaints. just happy users. I put up information on Wiktor's site. Check out the page: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/jThompson/restore/sharpFeltWheel/ SharpeningDevice.asp And the one following it. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158524 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-21 17:33:31 Subject: Re: Tannic Acid Source? I bought mine from a chemical supply house and paid way too much for it, but it was still the best price I could find. This site is WAY cheaper than what I paid. If it works, it is a bargain. You done good, Clay!! On Mar 21, 2006, at 4:55 PM, Clay Risenhoover wrote: > Bill asked about cheap tannic acid. Clay is glad to finally get to > answer something... > > Bill, you can do what I did, and boil up a few acorns (I have a dozen > or > so oak trees on my place), and use the water from that - it is loaded > with tannic acid. Just boil until the water is about the right color. > It > really does work. Funny thing, though, after a few days the juice got a > little rank. Apparently you can use a number of natural sources for > tannic acid, including sumac leaves. > > Or... you can try what I'm going to try next but haven't gotten around > to yet: buy your tannic acid from a place that sells yarn dyes. > Apparently people who dye yarn use the stuff to prepare it for color, > just like we do for ebonizing. I have not ordered any this way, but > here > is one site I found last time I was searching. I'll bet this stuff > would > work for ebonizing. > > http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/dye_tannicacid.shtml > > If you try it and it does work, please let us know. If I get around to > it, I'll do the same. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158525 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-21 17:47:22 Subject: Re: Best Combination Plane Storage On Mar 21, 2006, at 4:09 PM, Chris Berger wrote: > > So, the question is: > What is the neatest craftsman/woman made storage box that you have > seen for > a combination plane? If you haven't seen the neatest, what is the > neatest > box that you can think of? If anybody can come up with a really cool box for a complete #55 (ridiculously complex multi-plane, Jeff) I will be grateful. A couple of years ago I stole, er, uh, acquired, a complete, near mint, #55 which had only half of its original cardboard box. I have wanted to build a really nice container for it, but I have not the patience to design one. So has anybody already done the work? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158526 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-22 03:13:43 Subject: Steel from the Andrews company from Sheffield Dear Galoots, Sheffield woodworkers I am looking for any information about the Andrews company from Sheffield. Their steel has been exported to Japan during the 19th century and is still in use now. But it is becoming a scarce resource. I would like to know what type of steel has been exported to Japan, when exactly and for what purpose, what price... Any other information would be much welcome. Thanks a lot! Ludo from Taiwan, back from a 3 days trip to Japan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158527 ---- From: "Clay Risenhoover" Date: 2006-03-21 19:48:21 Subject: RE: Tannic Acid Source? SWMBO is a knitter... She helps me think of things... She also keeps saying that if I buy enough old tools to keep me busy, maybe I won't notice her yarn stash... I should also point out that if you use the boiling acorn technique (and everyone really should try it at least once...), that I mean you should boil just the meat of the nuts, not the shell. If anyone wants a bunch of last fall's acorns, I could send you some, standard Old Tools Rules: You can ship them back if you don't like them :) Jim - you having bought this stuff before: does the link I posted look about like what you bought, as far as color and consistency go? -Clay -----Original Message----- From: James Thompson [mailto:jdthompsonca@s...] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:34 PM To: Clay Risenhoover Cc: James Thompson; oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Tannic Acid Source? I bought mine from a chemical supply house and paid way too much for it, but it was still the best price I could find. This site is WAY cheaper than what I paid. If it works, it is a bargain. You done good, Clay!! Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158528 ---- From: "Frank Filippone" Date: 2006-03-21 19:31:15 Subject: RE: Tannic Acid Source? For ebonizing... from Brian Boggs.... http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/product/01347160/ Then the solution of rust + vinegar. According to Brian, a true black will result. Rarely do you need to treat twice. Frank Filippone red735i@e... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158529 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-03-21 21:46:07 Subject: Brace Manufacture question Greetings Fellow Galoots, A automechanic friend of mine gave me a brace that he found in the trunk of a 1953 Chevy 2-door Belle-Aire that he is restoring. Other than rust lock on the racket, it's in pretty good shape. It's marked: POWR-KRAFT, Made in England Anyone know anything about the manufacturer? Thanks, Micheal (It was 80-degrees F yesterday, 60-degrees F today) -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158530 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-21 22:44:49 Subject: FS list Hey all, I have finally put up a web page to sell old tools thanks to my friend Alex Mosely. Alex supplied the work and I supply the tools. It is still a work in progress as we add more stuff, but have a look. Hope you find something you need. Thanks Bruce Z. Kearney, MO Old tools for sale at http://www.generationsfurniture.com/tools -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release Date: 3/20/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158531 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-21 21:15:29 Subject: Re: Tannic Acid Source? I can only tell you that what I got is probably chemically pure, and that might account for the cost. Obviously chemical purity is not too important for making wood black. The stuff I got is a tan colored powder. That is about all I can say about it. On Mar 21, 2006, at 5:48 PM, Clay Risenhoover wrote: > > Jim - you having bought this stuff before: does the link I posted look > about like what you bought, as far as color and consistency go? > > -Clay > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Thompson [mailto:jdthompsonca@s...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:34 PM > To: Clay Risenhoover > Cc: James Thompson; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Tannic Acid Source? > > I bought mine from a chemical supply house and paid way too much for > it, but it was still the best price I could find. This site is WAY > cheaper than what I paid. If it works, it is a bargain. > > You done good, Clay!! > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158532 ---- From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Date: 2006-03-22 01:19:58 Subject: Re: Re: Special Weekend At 05:32 PM 3/21/06, you wrote: > Non Texas residents need to be aware that this (Homestead Heritage >Village) is in Central Texas and in the summer it gets Warm and Humid, >not unbearably so, but you should be aware. I took the 3 day class - built a dovetail candle box & a wall shelf - last January (a year ago). I also was reminded of all those pretty cedar trees can cause allergy problems. Take a few allergy pills a day or so before you get there if you are prone to such stuff. but, well worth a case of the sniffles to spend some time w/ the whole staff at Homestead Heritage. I also took a one day class that taught only how to use hand planes. That was fun, too. btw, I'm about 2 hours south of Waco if anyone needs a place to stop over for an evening respite on their way to/from a class. Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release Date: 3/20/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158533 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-22 08:04:40 Subject: RE: Tannic Acid Source? Bill asks: > Does anyone have a source to satisfy this old cheapskate? FWIW, the book I mentioned a couple of days ago says to brew A strong batch of Indian tea, which has a high tannin content. The book has photos accompanying the recipe that show a board that was treated with the tea and followed by the vinegar-steel wool mix and it's black. Might be worth a test before spending $$ on tannic acid. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158534 ---- From: "Keith De'Grau" Date: 2006-03-22 09:07:30 Subject: Re: Graver Thanks Jack - I received the engravers last week and they're just great. I plan on using them for a number of things some of which are wood marquetry projects but primarily for brass & copper engraving. I learned how to silk screen years ago and can get some very fine impressions but they could always use a touch up. These are great for cleaning up both polymer ink and wax resists, and actually creating designs. Thanks again! Keith Jack Kamishlian wrote: > GGs, > > This talk of gravers reminded me of some that I had gotten years ago > in a lot at an an auction. Typically, I have hung on to them, but I > have no use for them, and if any of you do, I would be happy to send > them to you. The picture is: > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > > > Cheers, > Jack in Endwell, NY > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158535 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-22 09:07:38 Subject: RE: scary sharp question 1500 should be plenty. You can (or at least used to be able to) find 2000 grit at WalMart, of all places, and you can go finer at LeeValley. The critical part is to be sure that you generate a burr on the back of the edge with each grit. If you don't do that, you haven't really accomplished anything. And once you run out of hair, a good test I read about somewhere is to cut pine endgrain. If you easily pull a shaving, and get a finely burnished surface, you're in good shape. Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Mike Hamilton > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:14 PM > To: tool list > Subject: [OldTools] scary sharp question > > GG: > > I've been on a sharpening jag lately. Nearly busted multiple times by > SWMBO with too many edge tools in a single location. I've sharpened > everything I own through 1500 grit silicone carbide. That's the > highest grit that was handy at the local hardware store. On finishing > and putting everything away, I thought I'd see if a plane blade was ' > hair off the arm sharp.' No go. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158536 ---- From: Hunter.COX@i... Date: 2006-03-22 09:16:35 Subject: FS brace bit extensions. Somehow I have amassed quite a collection of bit brace extensions. There are some techniques in Windsor chairmaking that call for these extensions so I have been picking them up when I see them - until I was cleaning up I had no idea how many I had! The following are available via standard OT terms. - greelee brace extension This one is nice and shiny, the most pristine of the bunch, looks like it was used a few times then stowed away in the back corner of someones shop. Threads on the clamping device work smoothly. $14. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3713 - Wards Master brace extension Another shiny one. the way the bit is held makes it easier to get it in and out of the extension while at the same time holding it securely. A few rust spots but overall great condition, threads on the clamping device work smoothly. $12. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3712 - Craftsman brace extension This one looks to have been used quite a bit but still has plenty of miles left. $7. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3714 Hunter in Richmond This message and all attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Neither Degremont Group nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158537 ---- From: "A. Bouland" Date: 2006-03-22 08:42:29 Subject: RE: Brace Manufacture Question In response to Micheal McEvoy's post: POWR-Kraft was a house brand for Montgomery Wards - I've got a tailed 6" jointer from them that appears to have actually been made by Rockwell/Homecraft/Delta around early 1950. What little I was able to discover about them was similar to most house brands of the catalog companies at the time - i.e. they were made by someone else and stamped with the Wards house logo. Your brace might be about the same era as the car it came out of so look for major manufacturer's in the 50's who were in England. Andrew Bouland >Greetings Fellow Galoots, >A automechanic friend of mine gave me a brace that he found in the >trunk of a 1953 Chevy 2-door Belle-Aire that he is restoring. >Other than rust lock on the racket, it's in pretty good shape. >It's marked: POWR-KRAFT, Made in England >Anyone know anything about the manufacturer? >Thanks, >Micheal (It was 80-degrees F yesterday, 60-degrees F today) >-- >Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm >chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158538 ---- From: "A. Bouland" Date: 2006-03-22 08:48:02 Subject: RE: Tannic acid source RE: tannic acid and acorns Thanks for the idea, I've got plenty of acorns and had been wanting to try out ebonizing. I'd love nothing more than to cheat the pesky squirrels out of some food... RE: vinegar and steel wool Was I supposed to allow the steel wool to turn to a ball of rust before putting in the jar of vinegar? I've had a jar sitting about with a hunk of steel wool in some vinegar but nothing seems to be happening. I threw in a couple of rusty screws to try to help it out but again, nothing appears to be happening. I was thinking I'd get some sort of change/murkiness, something. Wrong type of vinegar? Thanks, Andrew Bouland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158539 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-03-22 10:19:07 Subject: Jack Bittner Galoots, I may have missed this post by someone else, but yesterday I was "speaking" with his son about an eBay auction item. I'm now saddened, so let me ramble please. John P. "Jack" Bittner died January 18, 2006 at his home in Springfield, VT. Now, I don't expect more than one or two of you to know of whom I'm speaking. And, while Jack Bittner wasn't a Galoot, he was indeed an original old tool galoot. Consider this: "'Jack" then retired to Derby, Vt., where he continued with his auctions, selling on eBay and creating reproductions of antique cupboards, wooden bowls and buckets, Shaker boxes and other woodcraft items. I hope when Martin Donnelly gets some time he'll chip in with some thoughts on Jack. But I first was introduced to Jack at one of his famous antique tool auctions in Keene, NH. I believe we all owe Jack a thank you for being the first to start selling at auction only old tools. And while he was soon followed and battled by Crane's auctions, Jack was, IMHO, the best. What a nice guy. Fair and fun to be around, a fast auctioneer and he could pull the last dollar out of a bidder as good as any I've seen. I have to tell this personal story about the last time I was with Jack. The very first auction we did for PATINA at the Damascus Fire Hall - a major leap in scale for us - we "hired" Jack to be the auctioneer. He arrived the morning of the auction from Vermont with Rachel, his lovely wife of 60 years. His arm was in a sling. A day before at home he had an accident, severely cutting the arm. It was infected and the infection was in his entire body. Fever, weak and tired, Jack stood there and auctioned lot after 750 lots! That was one side of his character. Here's another wonderful side. He knew me by name and sight. With his style and character, I viewed him as a "friend", but I understood I was just one of many folks he knew. He also knew I worked on the auction and when he couldn't get a bid for a super clean and nice USSR boxwood ruler, he sold it to me by asking me to raise my hand if I thought the price was too cheap. I raised my hand. "SOLD!", he said and called my bidder number. He laughed, the entire room laughed, I laughed. And another appreciated side of his auction persona: I also had a good number of junk, ah, err, old tools in the auction. One lot was a Stanley #6 (Jeff- Jack Plane). I had "linished" it (what Stanley does to the bottom and sides, but we call it belt sanding) to remove the rust. I had stripped all the paint off and re-painted and baked new DeRusto onto it. I had buffed the nickel (well bare steel, but it looked like nickel when I finished). Up close, it looked redone, but a great user. Well, we had two spotlights shining so that when the handler lifted a tool to be auctioned the lights shined on the item. Mine just sparkled. It glowed. Jack looks up from his auction list and glances over at the item. "Wow" he exclaimed, "That is the best looking #6 I've ever seen!" There us a twinkle in his eye, a brief wink and he does what he did at times - started the bidding at an absurd amount. Now, this #6 in that day should have brought $25 maximum. But Jack had set a different 'tone" for it. As the bidding passed $25, I began to smile, as it passed $35, I began to squirm, and as it hit $65, I exclaimed loudly that it was too much. He got $67.50. A character indeed! Embarrassed, I asked the buyer if he was happy and he was. So, one can say it was Jack Bittner who created the tool cleaning monster I became. Thank's Jack, you helped pay for my Florida golf course home. And Galoots, thanks for letting me ramble. Jack deserves better from other galoots than what I can say. He was pioneer, a galoot, a character, a skilled auctioneer, a friend, a husband, dad and city councilman. *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158540 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-22 08:40:05 Subject: RE: RE: Tannic acid source Andy, did you look at this? http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/woodWork/EbonizingWood-ne.pdf This is a description of what and how to do. Visit http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/storageBin/index.asp Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > > RE: vinegar and steel wool > > Was I supposed to allow the steel wool to turn to a ball of > rust before putting in the jar of vinegar? I've had a jar > sitting about with a hunk of steel wool in some vinegar but > nothing seems to be happening. I threw in a couple of rusty > screws to try to help it out but again, nothing appears to be > happening. I was thinking I'd get some sort of > change/murkiness, something. Wrong type of vinegar? > > Thanks, > Andrew Bouland > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158541 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-22 10:37:53 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source Don't know about acorns, but the steel wool won't rust very quickly in the vinegar. Take it out, and throw it on the floor (I think it will rust faster if you throw it on the floor hard and shout an expletive--it should be wet enought to splat when it hits). Leave it there for 3-4 days, then pick up the orange rusty mess and put it in the vinegar. Another expletive or 2 about the rust spot on the garage floor will help it dissolve faster :-) tim raleigh, nc "A. Bouland" Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/22/2006 09:48 AM To cc Subject [OldTools] RE: Tannic acid source RE: tannic acid and acorns Thanks for the idea, I've got plenty of acorns and had been wanting to try out ebonizing. I'd love nothing more than to cheat the pesky squirrels out of some food... RE: vinegar and steel wool Was I supposed to allow the steel wool to turn to a ball of rust before putting in the jar of vinegar? I've had a jar sitting about with a hunk of steel wool in some vinegar but nothing seems to be happening. I threw in a couple of rusty screws to try to help it out but again, nothing appears to be happening. I was thinking I'd get some sort of change/murkiness, something. Wrong type of vinegar? Thanks, Andrew Bouland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158542 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-22 10:44:30 Subject: re: Tannic acid Have seen anyone post this yet: http://www.woodfinishingenterprises.com/dyes.html Tannic acid at a good price: $5 for 3 oz, $8.30 for 1/2 pound. I ordered mine from them, very good customer service, shipped quickly. Doesn't say on the web page, but they will take a credit card over the phone. Lots of other fun things there for old dyes as well---bought some Brazilwood extract at the same time to play with tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158543 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-22 10:51:34 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source At 09:48 AM 3/22/2006, A. Bouland wrote: >RE: tannic acid and acorns > >Thanks for the idea, I've got plenty of acorns and had been wanting to try >out ebonizing. I'd love nothing more than to cheat the pesky squirrels out >of some food... Now now, bushy tails are fun..and good eating once you get a pot full! Fresh oak bark, especially the inner bark is also loaded with tannic acid, make a brew of that and water for a bit. >Was I supposed to allow the steel wool to turn to a ball of rust before >putting in the jar of vinegar? I've had a jar sitting about with a hunk of >steel wool in some vinegar but nothing seems to be happening. I threw in a >couple of rusty screws to try to help it out but again, nothing appears to >be happening. I was thinking I'd get some sort of change/murkiness, >something. Wrong type of vinegar? Last time I made a batch I just got the cheapest $1 a quart vinegar I could get at the super market. Took some 000 steel wood and snipped it up a bit with tin snips and just let the mess work. Must have let it set for a week, not for any particular reason other than I did and when I got back to it, it was quite ugly looking. But it did the job just fine. Matter fact I was thinking of making up another batch for around here just today. Tony (25 degrees + 20 mph wind = crappy flea market this AM) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158544 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-22 10:24:07 Subject: RE: Re: Special Weekend Err, that's WARM and HUMID.... Now we can get hot and humid in summer (usually doesn't last for long), but I would definitely call 96/80 HOT AND HUMID. How do you keep the wood from doing funny things? I have an acquaintance that restores antiques (museum quality stuff) in Houston, and still don't understand how he does it. He says that he shrink wraps the piece first, in the place he is picking it up, takes it to his shop (air conditioned throughout), unwraps, then again shrink wraps when he returns it, just to be on the safe side. As he says the hour or so moving it can cause things to move around, even on 100-200 year old furniture. > Non Texas residents need to be aware that this (Homestead Heritage >Village) is in Central Texas and in the summer it gets Warm and Humid, >not unbearably so, but you should be aware. SWMBO might not think it a >favor to be working in the garden when it's 96 in the shade >with 80 per >cent humidity. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158545 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-22 08:40:49 Subject: KC Wood Carvers Club Spring Show Fellow Galoots, If you're going to be within driving distance of the Kansas City area this Friday and Saturday, the Kansas City Wood Carvers Club is hosting their annual spring show this weekend in Lee's Summit, MO. Here's complete information about the event, including address and driving directions: http://www.geocities.com/kcwoodcarvers/shows.html Wood, tools, books, and the company of woodworkers - what's not to love? Cheers, Alex Moseley | third-generation woodworker | Independence, Missouri | alex_moseley@y... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158546 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-22 09:22:53 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:48 AM, A. Bouland wrote: > > RE: vinegar and steel wool > > Was I supposed to allow the steel wool to turn to a ball of rust before > putting in the jar of vinegar? I've had a jar sitting about with a > hunk of > steel wool in some vinegar but nothing seems to be happening. I threw > in a > couple of rusty screws to try to help it out but again, nothing > appears to > be happening. I was thinking I'd get some sort of change/murkiness, > something. Wrong type of vinegar? I have a tutorial on the subject on Wiktor's site: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/jThompson/projects/ebonizingWood/ index.asp > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158547 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-22 12:38:41 Subject: RE: scary sharp question The way I test edges is to see if it will catch on the surface of a thumb/fingernail. I think this is about the same as shaving... --jd -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Ellis, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:08 AM To: Mike Hamilton; tool list Subject: RE: [OldTools] scary sharp question 1500 should be plenty. You can (or at least used to be able to) find 2000 grit at WalMart, of all places, and you can go finer at LeeValley. The critical part is to be sure that you generate a burr on the back of the edge with each grit. If you don't do that, you haven't really accomplished anything. And once you run out of hair, a good test I read about somewhere is to cut pine endgrain. If you easily pull a shaving, and get a finely burnished surface, you're in good shape. Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Mike Hamilton > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:14 PM > To: tool list > Subject: [OldTools] scary sharp question > > GG: > > I've been on a sharpening jag lately. Nearly busted multiple times by > SWMBO with too many edge tools in a single location. I've sharpened > everything I own through 1500 grit silicone carbide. That's the > highest grit that was handy at the local hardware store. On finishing > and putting everything away, I thought I'd see if a plane blade was ' > hair off the arm sharp.' No go. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158548 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-22 12:45:52 Subject: RE: scary sharp question Something that's interesting to do at least once in your life - given a broad meaning for interesting - is to use the pine endgrain test as you progress from each grit to the next. This is a good demonstration of how much edge improvement you get from honing in general, and from progressing from one grit to another in particular. Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: James DuPrie [mailto:jduprie@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:39 PM > To: Ellis, Thomas; 'Mike Hamilton'; 'tool list' > Subject: RE: [OldTools] scary sharp question > > The way I test edges is to see if it will catch on the surface of a > thumb/fingernail. I think this is about the same as shaving... > > --jd > > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Ellis, Thomas > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:08 AM > To: Mike Hamilton; tool list > Subject: RE: [OldTools] scary sharp question > > And once you run out of hair, a good test I read about somewhere > is to cut pine endgrain. If you easily pull a shaving, and > get a finely burnished surface, you're in good shape. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158549 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-03-22 17:49:25 Subject: Re: The Pine Blotch Jeff Schmidt is the latest to privately enquire .. >What exactly is van Dyke stain? so I hope he won't mind me copying the porch, for I've had a few questions on similar lines. IIRC Van Dyke crystals are the concentrated remains of an alchemical process which starts with walnut husks. This makes it a very friendly stuff to use, as it comes as dry crumbly powder, and you just mix with water. Roughly speaking, owt you dip in, or smear it over, goes a tasteful brown shade. Adjust the concentration to suit the colour you want. It lasts the best part of fortnight on hands, and probably forever on clothing. The original answer involved applying some blonde shellac to a piece to control subsequent penetration of stain, then using this water based stuff to apply colour. Now, the cunning part of the plan is using a water miscible product over a spirit miscible product. They don't mix. You can slather on the water stuff until you're happy, then, when you discover you aren't happy, wipe it off with a wet cloth. The underlying item hasn't been irretrievably coloured (colored, Paddy) Naturally, this is a bit of an oversimplification - do some tests boards as usual etc etc. I'm given to understand that acrylic colours work in this manner too, but I suspect that, when dry, they won't come off, but I haven't tried them, so if someone does, I'm one porchster who'd appreciate a report. Back to the plot - when you're happy, or nearly happy, seal in the colour with another dose of shellac, and voila! you have a fresh clean surface to apply any further colour details, or stipple in some extra colour to the detail moulding etc, and again you are able to reverse out of mistakes. finally of course you seal in the last layer, then go to final finishing. As I say, a bit of oversimplification. In the case of my pole lathe I just brushed on some dilute Van Dyke onto Borg pine and it all came down to a pleasing tone not unlike wood. I didn't seal it, and was affrighted when it got rained on half an hour later, and droplet marks appeared, but after more time outdoors and some more moisture all that's disappeared, and the colour is still the same, now toned down and evened out to look like an old pole lathe that lives outdoors and gets dinged. Quite pleasing. Or again, on a joint stool, with turned legs verging into sapwood, the technique allowed me to control the colour across the end grain / side grain / sapwood parts of the turning and end up with an even colour. I was pleased with this. ymmv I know only of Liberon as a supplier in the US of A, though as a time served traditional finish in the land of the walnut tree I'm sure there must be others. Google for Van Dyke Crystals Hey! I just did that and turned up http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/article039.htm which gives a good run down on stains and staining. quote " Vandyke crystals give a lovely colour on oak, especially with the addition of a little water black and washing soda. Tone orangey pine boards down with a walnut stain with a little added green to kill the warmth. " Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158550 ---- From: Jerry Davis Date: 2006-03-22 14:33:34 Subject: Speaking of augur bit extensions Hi folks, A couple years I bought an augur bit extension and found that the chuck will only accept size 12 and under augur bits. Is this fairly common for these tools or did they come in different sizes for different ranges of bits? Thanks, Jerry Griffin, GA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158551 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-22 12:34:41 Subject: Re: Wazzit On Wednesday 22 March 2006 06:16 am, Hunter.COX@i... wrote: > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id One of the links took me to here: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=684 whatsit1 and whatsit2. This is an opportunity to suck up to SWMBO... This is obviously an antique eyelash curler... It looks like it has an adjustable riser on it, to accomodate women with longer or shorter necks. Think of how lucky the LOYL will be to find this out!;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158552 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-22 17:04:20 Subject: Re: Re: Special Weekend Roy, I thought that the ants down there were big and mean enough to do that tilling for you. Larry > Non Texas residents need to be aware that this (Homestead Heritage >Village) is in Central Texas and in the summer it gets Warm and Humid, >not unbearably so, but you should be aware. SWMBO might not think it a >favor to be working in the garden when it's 96 in the shade with 80 per >cent humidity. > > And last but not least, once you get to Texas you ain't gonna want to >leave.... > > >Roy Griggs >roygriggs@v... >www.shavingsandsawdust.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158553 ---- From: Hunter.COX@i... Date: 2006-03-22 17:09:50 Subject: Re: Re: Wazzit Alan opines: One of the links took me to here: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=684 whatsit1 and whatsit2. This is an opportunity to suck up to SWMBO... This is obviously an antique eyelash curler... It looks like it has an adjustable riser on it, to accomodate women with longer or shorter necks. Think of how lucky the LOYL will be to find this out!;-) ******************* good one! actually someone had given me the patent reference on that it was some sort of exercise device from way back when you would strengthen your wrists if I remember correctly. reminds me of something from the movie road to wellville if anybody ever saw that. quite a contraption for what it does. hunter This message and all attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Neither Degremont Group nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158554 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-22 17:21:26 Subject: Re: Tannic Acid Source / Iron buff I've been reliably told that tea works fine to make the wood sufficiently tannic - plain ol' Lipton/Nestea/whatever is reported to be plenty. Might as well try that before laying out any cash! Playing with various woods, my impression was also that it didn't take much tannin in the wood for it to work. As to the steel wool / rust / vinegar, I put the wool in the vinegar without 'pre-rusting' the wool at all, and it worked just fine. The site referenced earlier is correct in saying that it's a nasty mess, though - even after straining out the wool solids with multiple coffee filters, it's still foul stuff. I used the cheapest by-the-gallon white vinegar and ordinary steel wool (and no other iron or rust source). I crammed a good bit of the wool into the vinegar - enough that the consistency was almost sludgy before straining, I shook it up once or twice most days, and getting to full strength took steeping for a week (after one week, it didn't continue to change). It makes a very nice and somewhat controllable black. Weaker solutions (strength adjusted by the length of time you steep the iron) gave a nice pure gray, a color that I've found hard to get otherwise (sufficiently diluted black dyes and stains always seem to come out green or purple or some other weird hue for me). Playing around with it, without any tea or other tannic pre-treatment, it also ebonized walnut well (walnut is also tannic). The effect is virtually instant - 90% of the black appears immediately, the rest is within 5 minutes. It's also pretty forgiving of lapmarks, not keeping a wet edge, etc. Anyway, here's a picture of one sample, before-and-after on a piece of white oak - I'd wanted to preserve the pores/grain somewhat, and this was just the effect I was shooting for. (Please forgive the ripply evidence of electrickeral surfacing.) Someone told me this color and degree of ebonizing resembled a finish popular on pseudo-Danish modern furniture from the late 50s/early 60s. I did a whole wall of oak 'waterfall' shelves with this method, and I was happy with the outcome. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/miamiclay/ironbuff.jpg Clay (yet another Clay who's happy to be able to offer an occasional answer!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158555 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-22 17:32:11 Subject: scary sharp question Ellis, Thomas wrote: > You can (or at least used to be able to) find > 2000 grit at WalMart, of all places, and you can go finer at > LeeValley. GG Chain auto parts store (PEP Boys locally) have up to 2000 grit in handy 5 piece packages - takes a long time to use up 5 pieces. Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158556 ---- From: Robert Hutchins Date: 2006-03-22 17:26:59 Subject: RE: Re: Special Weekend 'Twas said! >Non Texas residents need to be aware that this (Homestead Heritage >Village) is in Central Texas and in the summer it gets Warm and Humid, >not unbearably so, but you should be aware. SWMBO might not think it a >favor to be working in the garden when it's 96 in the shade with 80 >per cent humidity. But I have to protest that it's rarely ever 80% humidity in central Texas at the same time that it's 96 degrees Fahrenheit. It's very common for those 2 things to coincide in Houston, but not in McLennan County. It's (frequently) 96 (or more) in the summer time and it's someimes 80%RH, but usually the temp is lower when the RH is high and vice versa. Typically RH might be in the 40's or 50's when the temp is in the 90's. Not trying to say it don't get hot cause the RH is low; just that it ain't like Houston. Bob Hutchins, now in Temple but used to live in Sugar Land (Houston bedroom community). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158557 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-22 18:42:24 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source > Last time I made a batch I just got the cheapest $1 a quart vinegar I > could get at the super market. Took some 000 steel wood and snipped it up > a bit with tin snips and just let the mess work. Must have let it set for > a week, not for any particular reason other than I did and when I got back > to it, it was quite ugly looking. But it did the job just fine. Matter > fact I was thinking of making up another batch for around here just today. > > Tony (25 degrees + 20 mph wind = crappy flea market this AM) > I have found that if you soak dirty table cloths in vinegar until the solution darkens, you can then apply that solution to over-cleaned planes to produce a very realistic looking Patina. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158558 ---- From: "Dan Clermont" Date: 2006-03-22 17:14:20 Subject: Stuff to do near San Jose Hello Everyone, I am gonna be in San Jose, Ca for the week of May 22 to May 29th. Gonna be on a course during the day and hope to have a free Sat before flying back. Where should I go and what should I see? I am mainly interested in tool stores and nice furniture displays. Thanks Dan Clermont -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/287 - Release Date: 3/21/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158559 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-22 17:40:03 Subject: Re: Stuff to do near San Jose On 22 Mar 2006 at 17:14, Dan Clermont wrote: > I am gonna be in San Jose, Ca for the week of May 22 to May 29th. > Gonna be on a course during the day and hope to have a free Sat before > flying back. > > Where should I go and what should I see? I am mainly interested in > tool stores and nice furniture displays. The general answer is (as always) to look here: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/BAGsFAQ.htm The disappointingly specific answer is: There are some antique malls on San Carlos Street (the part called antique row) but not a whole lot to be found there. Possibly worth a look if you've got the time. I went through a bunch of them with George Langford once. In 25 years in that area, I found enough things at yard sales, but stores? Nah. Sorry. More appropriate if you wanted to look at nice computer displays than nice furniture displays. It's a big place (tenth largest US city now, having just passed Detroit) but very high-tech oriented. If you had time to run up to that smaller city to the north (something Francisco, I think) there are museums with interesting furniture - Palace of the Legion of Honor has furniture mixed in with the paintings, some quite well made. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158560 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-22 21:14:53 Subject: Newbie Bio... As a newbie on the list I was asked to send a bio. Let's see..I'm a 44 year old computer geek from Northern VA. I got interested in wood when I wanted to build a diorama for displaying my model cars. I got interested in old tools when a lack of space combined with my interest in social history. I've always been very interested in how people lived in times gone by. I've started collecting some tools (two old saws, a stanley #4, a new set of chisels and a new backsaw) and need a few more before I can start my initial project...a box. I have really been enjoying the list! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158561 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-22 18:42:22 Subject: Re: Newbie Bio... Hey Wendy Old tools? Toy Cars? Atta Girl!! Welcome home http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/chappy.jpg (1966 Cox Chaparral slot car, restored) http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/auction/slott2.jpg (a few I had to sell last fall, sniff) yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158562 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-23 14:30:25 Subject: Re: Newbie Bio... Hi All, Ahhhh, yes the Cox Chaparral. A fine slot car in it's day and way too expensive for the meagre pocket money of a 14 yr old, as I was then. Wow, that takes me back! Rewinding motors too well........they ran so fast they self destructed!! 24 hour races, trophy for the fastest 'dragster', the smell of tyre dope (methyl salicylate aka 'oil of wintergreen' ), replacing axle bushes with tiny ball bearings.........ah the good old days! Remember Russkit cars? Aluminium pan chassis etc, etc. OT content: Eggbeater drill for drilling holes in chassis to lighten weight. Peter B, in Australia scott grandstaff wrote: > Hey Wendy > Old tools? Toy Cars? Atta Girl!! > Welcome home > http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/chappy.jpg (1966 Cox Chaparral > slot car, restored) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158563 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-22 21:40:47 Subject: Re: Special Weekend GG, Gary asks... How do you keep the wood from doing funny things? I have an acquaintance that restores antiques (museum quality stuff) in Houston, and still don't understand how he does it. Gary, After living in Houston for 15 years, I never found anything you could do...live with it. As long as the furniture is in a/c spaces we didn't really have any problems other than an abnormaly large range of movement when you switched from a/c to heat in the winter. As for wood in the raw...dimensions were subject to change on short notice, square and straight today didn't mean it would be tommorrow, challenging...Most of the ww I did there was Normite cabinate construction. But that was where I was at the time anyway... Larry says... Roy, I thought that the ants down there were big and mean enough to do that tilling for you. The ants aren't agregarian, but have been known to pick up a full grown cow, carry it to their burrow and butcher it on site while stuffing it down the hole...those are red ants. Then there are the fire ants...little ants, big attitude, bite and sting to match attitude. Bad enough to actually leave scars....and very agressive. (But then, they aren't native to Texas, just more ungrateful latecomers...) I no longer live in Texas, but am proof of the old adage...You can take the Texan out of Texas, but you can't take Texas out of the Texan. Long live the Republic of Texas!!! Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158564 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-22 22:24:28 Subject: Re: Newbie Bio GG, Wendy, you'll have to post some pic's of your dioramas. I still have a box of unfinished modle cars somewhere...mainly a 40 Ford coupe with corvette independent suspension and 427 sohc ford engine... Welcome, your posts have been enjoyable and I look forward to your contributions. I once saw the Chapparell in Midland/Odessa at Jim Hall's shop, along with one of the original GT-40 Fords, Hall took the time to speak to a couple of awe struck teenagers and give us a couple minutes of his time. A gentleman and giant of a car designer... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158565 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-23 09:14:00 Subject: Re: Re: Newbie Bio roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > Wendy, you'll have to post some pic's of your dioramas. I still have a > box of unfinished... Yep, Roy's one of us! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158566 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-23 11:57:28 Subject: Re: splitting logs Phil E., Asheville writes: > I enjoyed John Manners' description of how to split logs. It may be that > I've only done ones up to about a foot diameter, but here in the > mountains we just start at the end. I look for the natural drying splits > in the end of the log and start the wedge in the biggest one. Then I > leapfrog wedges until the log splits. Using the go-devil or ax, I sever > any still connected fibers. Usually this works fine. I've split lots of > locust fence posts this way and split bigger and longer logs for other > uses. > Most logs here are split within a few days of their being felled and the process described, whilst by no means an invariable practice, is adopted for the purpose of preventing run outs with a consequent waste of timber. Split out timbers are left to season a bit if they are intended for a structure such as a shed but green timbers are used for fence posts or, rarely these days, post and rail fences for stock yards. In the backblocks, well before my time, whole logs were left to dry out for a couple of years awaiting the appearance of the travelling builder of large bullock drays and bullock wagons who, on arrival, would proceed to construct the major part of the vehicle from the log, which he split out himself to his own requirements. Here, amongst the hardwood Eucalypt species, almost any log can be made to split out into straight pieces but very few will split straight, without run out, of their own accord. > I've noticed that Americans seem more results oriented and > Europeans/Australians seem more process oriented. I go at something using > any way that gets 'er done, nevermind how. An interesting insight into demographics and it is refreshing to encounter such a wholehearted disdain for bushelized delumination. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158567 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-23 19:25:28 Subject: Re: scary sharp question Mike Hamilton writes: > > I've been on a sharpening jag lately. Nearly busted multiple times by > > SWMBO with too many edge tools in a single location. I've sharpened > > everything I own through 1500 grit silicone carbide. That's the > > highest grit that was handy at the local hardware store. On finishing > > and putting everything away, I thought I'd see if a plane blade was ' > > hair off the arm sharp.' No go. Need I go finer on my grit, or > > reexamine my technique. If the former, at what level should I likely > > experience success? And James DuPrie writes: > 1) Make sure that the bevel on your chisel is flat, and use it as the > reference surface. I don't do the micro bevel, secondary bevel or whatever > you want to call it - all of my edge tools have 2 planes: the back and the > bevel. They intersect at the edge. You really need to be able to keep that > reference surface flat ...... > My final strop is > the palm of my hand.... And Jim Thompson writes: > If you just enjoy rubbing a tool on sandpaper, scary sharp is as good a > way to sharpen as any. > > But I didn't enjoy it. I prefer to use my tools, not spend my time > sharpening them. And so I set up a hard felt wheel, and that took most > of the work out of sharpening. Several galoots have also gone that > route, and I haven't heard any complaints. just happy users. I put up > information on Wiktor's site. > > Check out the page: > > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/jThompson/restore/sharpFeltWheel/ > SharpeningDevice.asp And good advice James' and Jim's is, and even if just a teeny bit in conflict in small issues, which passages must be considered as obiter dicta, the ratio decidendi is clearly discernable. Whilst still remaining bound in the scrum over the ball (Rugby allusion, Jeff) I should like to push the play a little bit more towards what I perceive to be my team's tryline, getting irons sharp and keeping them that way. Over the years I found that grinding an iron to the desired bevel was the most difficult part of the process and I involved myself with a plethora of commercial grinding jigs and Heath Robinson contraptions of my own devising in that regard. I could never achieve the standard of perfection of my fitter friends who, using a small engineer's bevel gauge and their forefingers as a guide on a very rudimentary rest, ground whatever bevel was required, adjusting as they went both by use of the engineer's bevel and by looking at the work as it progressed. I finally settled for a simple straight steel rod, suspended at about mid height to the wheel, hand or electrically powered, about 3/4" away from the wheel's edge and a variety of "collars" to be fixed to the iron to be ground. For plane and broader chisel irons the collar consists of two small pieces of wood joined together at both ends with small bolts and wing-nuts. For smaller chisels and screw-drivers, nuts of various sizes, drilled and tapped through one facet and sporting a bolt to hold it to the iron, grub-screw fashion, are quite adequate. First, the grinding wheel is removed and, with a centre-finder, a true diameter line in the outboard side of the wheel is marked in heavy pencil and then the wheel is replaced. A rather coarse silicon carbide wheel is to be preferred. A16" long x 13/32" diameter hex-head bolt is adequate for the purposes of the steel rod and pre-drilled heavy metal brackets available from builders' supplies stores furnish sturdy mounts with accurately drilled holes. The distance between the mounts should be such that no part of the threaded section of the bolt rests in its supporting bracket's hole as this may slightly skew the rod from the horizontal. Washers are fitted, one at the head end and several at the nut end so that some sit on the unthreaded part of the bolt and others sit on the adjoining threaded part. As the holes in the brackets are slightly oversize, care in due course should be taken to see to it that the bottom side of the bolt rests firmly on the bottom edges of the holes as things are tightened up. A thick piece of formwork ply (1") furnishes a good base on which to mount a grinder, hand-powered or electric, and its ancillary devices. The mounted grinder should be checked with a square to ensure that the wheel is perpendicular to the plywood mount and shims should be used, if necessary, to bring the wheel plumb with the ply base. A piece of timber is prepared, its top and bottom parallel, to bring the rod in its supporting brackets up to approximately the mid-line of the wheel. The brackets, feet inwards, are fixed to this with countersunk bolts from the bottom through oversize countersinks and oversize holes to allow for fine adjustment. The feet are fixed each with a bolt, washer and wingnut. The timber on which the brackets sit is screwed into place on the formwork ply as accurately as may be achieved making sure that, in the case of the handpowered grinder, the rod and its mount do not interfere with the travel of the wheel's handle. The rod is then firmly tightened in its brackets, but this is not overdone. The rod is then made square to the travel of the wheel by placing a sheet of white paper under the wheel, placing the stock of a square along the operator's side of the rod with the blade extending over the rod and pushed up against the side of the wheel. The wingnuts on the feet of each bracket are slightly loosened and the brackets are lightly knocked until the square's blade is square against the side of the wheel, that is, the white paper can no longer be seen between the wheel's side and the blade's edge. Then the wingnuts are firmly tightened and the square is again applied to check that there was no movement during the tightening-up process. To finish off the making-square the wheel is set in motion and a wheeldresser with revolving star wheels is hooked over the rod and passed back and forth across the revolving wheel at a constant medium pressure until the wheel's edge is cleaned up and square with both of its sides as established by the application of a sliding square from the edge of the wheel. Now there is to be determined the distance at which an iron is to be set to achieve the desired angle of bevel. After a lot of mucking around I finally settled for two small strips of squared wood joined at the midline towards one end by a small bolt and wingnut in the form of a primitive bevel gauge. One strip is about 6" long and the other about 2" or short enough in any event so that it will not touch the wheel flange when the other piece sits on the edge of the wheel. Without going too far into the geometry of it, please accept the assurance that the angle to be set on this little wooden bevel gauge with a protractor is the desired bevel angle on the iron plus 90 degrees. Therefore, if it is desired that a 30 degree bevel should be ground on the iron, the little wooden bevel gauge is set with the aid of protractor at 120 degrees and is tightened at this setting. The inside edge of the short part of the gauge is then aligned with the pencil mark previously placed on the side of the wheel and is lowered with its inside edge remaining along this line until the top of the long arm, which should remain above the rod (bolt) is brought to rest on the wheel's circumference at the point where the pencil line meets the circumference. The wheel is then rotated until the long arm gently rests on the rod. The long arm is then marked at the point on its side where, as near as may be judged by eye, a line perpendicular to the arm would strike a tangent with the inner side of the rod. One can be considerably more anal about establishing this mark with sliding droppers, etc. but the average set of two hands and two arms militates against this. The distance between the mark made on the longer arm and the point of intersection of the two inside edges of the two bevel gauge pieces is then measured and either committed to memory or, preferably, written on the grinder's base-board together with the angle which it represents. Whew! Now, to grind a mistreated plane iron at 30 degrees bevel. First, the back must be flattened and the usual method of a stick and the iron being grasped together so that pressure from both hands forces the back of the iron flat on to the coarse side of the stone works well. If most of the back close to the cutting edge is flattened except where, all to often, the iron shows signs right at the cutting edge of having been crudely back-beveled, it is far less time-consuming to leave it at this and to remove the back-bevel in the course of the next step. It may also be found that one or both corners of the iron at the cutting edge have been ground very deeply compared with the balance of the bevel. This is usually the result of the iron having been permitted to run off the edge of the grinding wheel during an earlier grinding. There is no help for this but to grind back the cutting edge severely, using the wheel, until a sufficient thickness of metal for the purposes of the proposed new bevel is achieved at the corner/s. Then the next step may be undertaken. Next, using an engineer's square, draw a pencil line as close as possible to the cutting edge across the back of the iron but so that any back bevel is on the cutting edge side of the line. Check that the iron's sides are parallel by squaring from the other side close to the drawn line. If they are not parallel, which is sometimes the case with old irons, adopt one side as the square side and file a mark in it up near the top as a reminder. Many persons are quite capable of grinding the edge back to the squared line with a wheel without any problems but, it is suspected, many more believe that they have achieved a successful grinding back to square when, in fact, they have only made things harder for themselves. This is because, although the top of the iron is ground back to the line, the actual ground-back edge, as thin as it may be, does not come out as a perfectly flat section square in all dimensio ns with the body of the iron but is either canted up or down or up in places and down in others or skewed. These imperfections will not manifest themselves until the iron is stoned, when an uneven or out-of-square edge will manifest itself just at the point of completion. The safest procedure, which usually involves very little extra time, is to grind the edge down on the coarse side of a combination India stone, holding the iron as perpendicular to the stone as one may with hands on either side of the iron at the cutting edge with the fingers just brushing the top of the stone. The stone is set with its long side parallel to the edge of the bench at which the operator stands and the iron is held with one of its broad sides facing the operator.The iron is moved lengthways along its cutting edge up and down the length of the stone. There should be imparted a small but sufficient edgewise tilt to reduce that part of the cutting edge prouder to the scribed line first. Frequent inspections to see how the removal of metal is proceeding relative to the scribed line and adjustments to respond to these inspections will get the thing square within a few minutes because of the small amount of metal to be removed. I have been using the same few India stones for years and none of them have gone out of true notwithstanding my use of them in the manner described although no harm can come out of generally working the whole of the face of the stone during this procedure. Silicon carbide stones and water stones would not stand up to much of this sort of use, however, without requiring re-flattening. When the edge has been squared, a sliding square is set to the distance previously taken off the little wooden bevel gauge, the stock of the square is butted up to the cutting edge and the iron is marked at the end of the square's blade. The iron is squared across from this mark with a pencil line. The wooden collar is fitted to the iron with the collar's top rear edge, which should be in the same plane as the collar's bottom rear edge, on the line and with the bulk of the collar forward of the line towards the cutting edge and the collar's wingnuts are tightened . The iron is rested on the rod with the collar butted up against it on the side of the rod away from the operator and closer to the wheel. It is worthwhile to grease the rod lightly. With this set-up it is a relatively easy matter to guide the iron back and forth across the wheel with one hand whilst turning the wheel with the other. Because of the forward position of the hand care should be taken to press the iron down on the rod rather than to press the iron's existing bevel down on to the wheel, thereby perpetuating any incorrect skew on the bevel. Light passes and often are the rule and, as soon as the most advanced finger on the iron, which should be very close to the edge, detects heat to an uncomfortable degree, the iron should be dunked in water. With a hand-driven wheel it is possible to obtain a very thin edge without danger of cooking the iron before stoning is undertaken. The blunted, squared edge of the iron should be inspected frequently during the grinding process to see to it that an even thickness is being achieved along its length. The result of these grinding endeavours should show a thin, even cutting edge, a hollow bevel with the rear line of the bevel strictly parallel to the cutting edge. Notwithstanding that the grinding set-up is correct and square, this result does not come as automatically as one might think. The main source of error is the pressing down of the originally incorrect bevel on to the wheel, thereby causing the body of the iron to cant slightly on its rod rest. Another is the tendency of the wooden collar to raise one or other of its ends very slightly from contact with the rod as it is moved sideways back and forth along the rod and yet another is the running the iron's edge beyond the edge of the wheel which can sometimes require the starting of the process all over again. An inspection of the results of the first correct pass of the iron over the wheel should reveal the high spots of the old bevel and the broadening but continuing issue of sparks from these high spots but not from the balance of the old bevel indicates that the work is proceeding correctly to the desired point where sparks issue evenly from across the whole face of the bevel in one pass. My method of stoning an iron is freehand, hence the establishment of a ground bevel at 30 degrees rather than the traditional 25 degrees to be followed by a small stoned bevel at 30 degrees. Usually it is found convenient to place a very standard and relatively inexpensive 8"x2" India (aluminium oxide) combination stone in a fitted recess cut into one side of a piece of 4"x4" hardwood, coarse side up, with its longer side running parallel to the operator's side of the bench. The 4"x4" assists greatly to maintain the stone's position whilst work is in progress. The bevel of the iron is "clicked" on to the stone by placing the heel of the bevel, slightly at an angle to the length of the stone, first on to the stone and then (for right-handed persons) pushing down firmly with the backwards-crooked, locked fingers of the left hand very close to the iron's edge until the underside of the edge "clicks" on the stone. This may be observed by the expulsion of fluid from beneath the iron's cutting edge just as the "click" is felt, rather than heard. With the fingers of the left hand pressed down on the edge of the iron and with the left thumb simply hanging downwards beside the iron the right hand, back uppermost, is slid down the length of the iron until contact is made with the left hand with the right hand's thumb and forefinger on either side of the left hand with the right hand's other fingers curled underneath the iron just to afford light support for the iron in its "clicked" down position. The left hand is assisted by the thumb and forefinger of the right to slide the iron up and down the length of the stone. A certain amount of rocking the body can help keep the hands moving in unison early in the piece but short experience renders this unnecessary. However, at the outset, the iron will often "unclick" and require "reclicking" but it is quite surprising how quickly muscle memory builds. In any event, the iron should be inspected from time to time to see that the stoning is progressing evenly. Initially, the most fatiguing and uncomfortable part of all of this results from the pressure which has to be applied through the back-crooked fingers of the left hand but this, too, abates after little time. In this fashion the iron is moved slightly skew of lengthways up and down the stone until a wire edge is achieved along the iron's entire edge. This, together with the grinding, is probably the most work that will ever have to be done with the iron barring hitting nails and other edge-gapping accidents. The India stone is then flipped over with its fine side uppermost and, with the wire edge generated by the coarse side still intact, the iron is applied to the fine side in the same manner as it was applied to the coarse side. A finer wire edge which appears to have the effect of shedding the wire edge made on the coarser side of the stone is then generated in a dozen or less passes which also serve to polish the hollow bevel at its cutting edge and heel more finely than that achieved by the coarse side of the stone. The iron is then turned flat on its back on the stone and rubbed up and down it in line with the length of the cutting edge for a couple of passes. This usually results in part of the wire edge detaching itself from the iron and the detached piece or pieces should be removed from the stone. Another six passes on the bevel and two passes on the back of the iron, performed twice, removes as much of the wire edge as can be removed on this side of the stone. A brief stropping on the palm of the hand then sees the iron fit for work (any very small remnants of the wire edge can be felt and worked off) although some persons would take the matter further by first stoning the iron briefly on a hard natural stone or (Jeff's method, which is very effective) on a piece of glass dressed with chrome polish, before stropping. A piece of leather glued to a board and without any abrasive dressing can be substituted for hand stropping. In any event, the edge should now be able, along its full length, to shave the hair from the wrist leaving a clean patch. Removing some hairs and leaving others in the same area or the creation of a dragging sensation means that the edge is not sharp enough. As the edge dulls with use all that is required to restore it is to work it on the fine side of the India stone, about six strokes on the bevel side and two strokes on the back, repeated once, and then to strop it. The hollow bevel will eventually wear away to a flat bevel but there is no need to restore it as the extra work involved in stoning the whole, flat face of the bevel is so minimal as to be unnoticeable. More time is taken disassembling the plane and reassembling it and setting it than is taken to restore the edge. Circumstances seem to require the admission, however, that the restoration of chisels' edges on a flat bevel will take a little longer than with a hollow bevel once the hollow bevel has been flattened by repeated sharpenings. The restoration of a hollow bevel, however, will take a lot longer. It is not a bad idea, by the way, to practise all of this on a piece of mild steel to get a feel for the various procedures. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158568 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-23 09:22:13 Subject: Re: Speaking of augur bit extensions Jerry Davis wrote: > Hi folks, > > > A couple years I bought an augur bit extension and found that the chuck > will only accept size 12 and under augur bits. Is this fairly common > for these tools or did they come in different sizes for different ranges > of bits? It appears that these extensions are designed more or less purely for making DEEP 3/4" AKA size 12 holes. The chucks (extremely narrow though they are) will only follow size 10 and up bits, but the same chucks are only specified as strong enough for size 12 max (in hardwood) These two constraints define a very narrow range of deep hole drilling. BugBear (who could have sworn he'd said this before, but couldn't find it in the archive) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158569 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-03-23 11:03:28 Subject: Re: Best Combination Plane Storage Chris Berger asked about storage >a really neat craftsman made tool box for a Stanley 45. It seemed that >there was a place for every item: Irons, long and short arms, all >stops, screwdriver, and asked for more input. I honestly don't know how Stanley sold theirs, but I have two Record 45's (Sheffield made look alike for the Stanley 45, Paddy)which were supplied from new in wooden boxes with finger jointed corners. Storage doesn't get much more compact. In fact, it's a bit of a pain having to break down the plane to store the rods etc when you know you'll be wanting the same setting again sometime soon. I also have a craftsman made wooden box with sliding lid for a 44 ( simpler rebate/dado combination plane, Paddy) This box allows the plane to reside whilst assembled. It's so big it has to live away from the bench on a farside shelf (far side of the workshop that is ) If may be allowed a coarse moment of crudity - Festool make plastic interlocking tool boxes under the 'Systainer' trade name. For reasons of modesty I won't explain how I came into possession of one, but the general principle of same size boxes which can be stacked and locked together is a good one. The footprint of these devil's spawn is about 12 by 16 inches, and they are in various heights. You could adopt the same idea. A series of boxes of the same horizontal dimensions, varying heights, and fit them to the particular requirements - a 55 in this one, a 45 in that one, a couple of 50's in the next, about a half dozen 43's (cute grooving plane, Paddy) even sets of chisels or 'away kits'. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot not ashamed to use devils tools on devil's termite barf .. . . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158570 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-03-23 07:11:00 Subject: Re: Re: Best Combination Plane Storage I was in an antique shop some years back and they had a nice 45 plane that some owner down the line had taken a small portable 1940s - 50s era Kids record player, you know the type that unfolds and you crank a handle to have it play, and gutted it out and put in fitted wooden spacers to hold the plane and parts. They even cut the Stanley label part off the original cardbord box and pasted it on the lid. Box had a handle so you could carry it around if you so desired...Pretty Neato...Seller had a on the moon price of like $500 and tried his best to convince me the plane was in it's original box though he really didn't have a good augument to explain the Donald Duck characters on the side of the case I didn't think.....Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158571 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-23 05:00:36 Subject: Re: Stuff to do near San Jose Ken Greenberg wrote: >On 22 Mar 2006 at 17:14, Dan Clermont wrote: > > > >>I am gonna be in San Jose, Ca for the week of May 22 to May 29th. Gonna be >>on a course during the day and hope to have a free Sat before flying back. >> >>Where should I go and what should I see? I am mainly interested in tool >>stores and nice furniture displays. >> >> > > If you had time to run up to that smaller city to the >north (something Francisco, I think) there are museums with interesting >furniture - Palace of the Legion of Honor has furniture mixed in with the >paintings, some quite well made. > > > The deYoung museum is going to have an arts & crafts based show from now until June. http://206.14.230.206/ When I get home, I'll fish out my Woodworker West to see who will be around as well. Usually a good listing of what is available. -- Kirk Eppler Eppler.Kirk@g... Process Development Engineering ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158572 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-23 14:46:30 Subject: Re: Best Combination Plane Storage Stanley anticipated the desire to leave the rods attached on their Miller's Patent planes, so offered this solution: http://home.att.net/~mwtcabosse/Box.html Not a very robust design IMHO. A few years ago I picked up a mint #55, but it came sans box. Fortunately, I had a handmade wooden tackle box (empty) that my grandfather had made, complete with a removable top tray under the lid. Turns out, the plane fits perfectly in the main section of the box, and the cutters, screwdriver, cam, and instructions fit in the top tray. On a side note: When my grandad died, my folks and my aunt were so anxious to sell his property in Riverside, CA, that they sold the place complete with his entire workshop full of tools. When they told me this, I didn't know if I was going to scream or cry....or both. -Wayne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158573 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-23 13:30:50 Subject: Re: Newbie Bio... Welcome Wendy! It sounds like you are off to a good start. All you really need to make a box is a square and mebbe a hammer... Tim It is balmy 50 in NJ today! Wendy Sarrett wrote: >As a newbie on the list I was asked to send a bio. Let's see..I'm a 44 >year old computer geek from Northern VA. I got interested in wood when >I wanted to build a diorama for displaying my model cars. I got >interested in old tools when a lack of space combined with my interest >in social history. I've always been very interested in how people >lived in times gone by. I've started collecting some tools (two old >saws, a stanley >#4, a new set of chisels and a new backsaw) and need a few more >#before I can >start my initial project...a box. > >I have really been enjoying the list! Wendy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158574 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-23 13:46:35 Subject: Re: Re: Best Combination Plane Storage Todd Hughes wrote: > ...Seller had a on the moon price of like $500 and tried his best to > convince me the plane was in it's original box though he really didn't > have a good augument to explain the Donald Duck characters on the side > of the case I didn't think.....Todd > > Now, if it had been a wood duck.... Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158575 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-23 13:47:04 Subject: RE: Newbie Bio... A fine lesson in how to make someone feel really old :-) My model interest was Stromberg Wooden Model Airplanes in the early '50's. And that probably is a remembrance of things modern for some others on the list. OT content - absolutely none. Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Peter B > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:30 PM > To: scott grandstaff > Cc: porch > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Newbie Bio... > > Hi All, > Ahhhh, yes the Cox Chaparral. A fine slot car in it's day and way too > expensive > for the meagre pocket money of a 14 yr old, as I was then. > > Wow, that takes me back! > Rewinding motors too well........they ran so fast they self > destructed!! > 24 hour races, trophy for the fastest 'dragster', the smell > of tyre dope > (methyl salicylate aka > 'oil of wintergreen' ), replacing axle bushes with tiny ball > bearings.........ah the good old days! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158576 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-23 15:36:51 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source OK. I'll bite. What is in dirty table cloths that will produce a patina om cast iron? Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Perreault" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] RE: Tannic acid source > > > Last time I made a batch I just got the cheapest $1 a quart vinegar I > > could get at the super market. Took some 000 steel wood and snipped it up > > a bit with tin snips and just let the mess work. Must have let it set for > > a week, not for any particular reason other than I did and when I got back > > to it, it was quite ugly looking. But it did the job just fine. Matter > > fact I was thinking of making up another batch for around here just today. > > > > Tony (25 degrees + 20 mph wind = crappy flea market this AM) > > > > I have found that if you soak dirty table cloths in vinegar until the > solution darkens, you can then apply that solution to over-cleaned planes to > produce a very realistic looking Patina. > > Al Perreault > Wachusett Galoot > Westminster, MA > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158577 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-23 13:04:37 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Bill Rittner wrote: > OK. I'll bite. What is in dirty table cloths that will produce a > patina om > cast iron? I am not even going to touch that one. :>) Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158578 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-23 14:53:03 Subject: A plane for my neighbor My neighbor is in his late 50's and is nearing retirement. He mentioned to me how he wanted to get some woodworking tools when he retired after seeing some of my restored goodies. While scanning the evil electronic wasteland I spotted an auction about to end for a Stanley #5(you bloody well ought to know THAT one is by now!) and I bid 15 bucks for it and got it(I won't call it winning as I have to pay for it!). The plane was a '60's model and in pretty good shape so refurbing went swiftly. Looking at the bedding of the frog I could see why these later examples have a bad reputation. The surfaces were sloppily machined and did not provide solid support for the iron. I did some filing to get things as close as I could but wasn't really happy with it, so digging around in my what-nots I found a container of Si-Ca powder. It is fairly coarse but I couldn't say what the grit grade is. I dripped some honing oil on the mating surfaces and then sprinkled the powder on. After a while rubbing the 2 surfaces together, I got a nice even mat finish on both parts, and now the plane works very nicely indeed! I ended up charging the fellow $20 for the tool and gave him a little nudge toward the slope. He seems happy so far! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158579 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-24 07:11:16 Subject: Re: Tannic acid source Al wrote in part: I have found that if you soak dirty table cloths in vinegar until the solution darkens, you can then apply that solution to over-cleaned planes to produce a very realistic looking Patina. PeterH chips in: A little while back I de-rusted some railway spikes in citric acid. The resulting slurge was poured down along the kerb onto bitumen where it was supposed to run away and disappear. The dull coppery colour remains in the drain. CA slurge might produce a nice colour when rubbed into timber and polished. p.s. seems Al is still accumulating tablecloths (accident prone dirty ones of course)! PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158580 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-23 18:48:08 Subject: book bargain Gentle ones, If anyone out there covets Nancy Goyne Evans latest book, "Windsor-Chair Making in America" but finds the $65 price tag too dear, be aware walmart.com has it for $38.49. No affiliation and somewhat ashamed to admit to the transaction. Dennis Heyza Macomb, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158581 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-23 20:48:42 Subject: Re: Newbie Bio... Thanks Scott!! Wendy On Wednesday 22 March 2006 09:42 pm, scott grandstaff wrote: > Hey Wendy > Old tools? Toy Cars? Atta Girl!! > Welcome home ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158582 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-23 20:53:41 Subject: Re: Re: Newbie Bio Thanks Roy!! Well, I bought the supplies but I'm afraid I haven't made the diorama yet. I did make a display case and that, as well as the pix of my models are at my fotki site: http://public.fotki.com/sarrett/ The finished case is the last pix in the 67 Impala folder. I also made a folder with my dovetail pix. Thanks! I hope as I learn more I'll be able to contribute more! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158583 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-23 20:57:54 Subject: Re: Newbie Bio... Thanks Tim! I guess I'm being a bit ambitious. I have plans from a book that uses a combination plane to cut the joinery. I do have a square that I recently bought (after my display case didn't come out as square as I wanted it to.) I have a plane and two handsaws I bought off of ebay that I'm in the process of cleaning up. The plane is actually pretty clean but the saw needs some work. Wendy On Thursday 23 March 2006 01:30 pm, Tim Pendleton wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158584 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-23 22:13:41 Subject: Prelateral Plane Deal, and I Missed It! Saw an *amazing* prelateral plane for sale on eBay! It had a starting bid of $9.99; I wonder why nobody bid on it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6263661111 Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158585 ---- From: Jimlemon@a... Date: 2006-03-23 23:52:52 Subject: Returning member I've just returned to the porch (do you still call it that?) after a lengthy absence, and after a bit of lurking, I think I might have noticed that things are being done a bit differently. For example, I haven't noticed any gloats (and not a single 'You Suck!') and only one spittoon being polished. Are these relics of a bygone day? I mean, I'm just askin'... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158586 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-24 13:44:47 Subject: Re: scary sharp question James DuPrie writes: > The way I test edges is to see if it will catch on the surface of a > thumb/fingernail. I think this is about the same as shaving... That is the traditional way butchers and meatworkers test their knives coming off the steel and it certainly is adequate for their work. Trouble is, some can sharpen better than others to the extent that one man can shave with his knife to a bare patch of skin whilst another can remove only a few hairs from the back of his hand with the knife's edge dragging somewhat although both knives will pass the thumbnail test. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158587 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-24 13:23:36 Subject: Re: RE: Tannic acid source Andrew Bouland writes: > RE: vinegar and steel wool > > Was I supposed to allow the steel wool to turn to a ball of rust before > putting in the jar of vinegar? I've had a jar sitting about with a hunk of > steel wool in some vinegar but nothing seems to be happening. I threw in a > couple of rusty screws to try to help it out but again, nothing appears to > be happening. I was thinking I'd get some sort of change/murkiness, > something. Wrong type of vinegar? Around these parts some steel wool appears to be comprised of turnings from "stainless" steel work with which, I suspect, the vinegar might have a little trouble. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158588 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-24 00:39:50 Subject: Re: book bargain On Thursday 23 March 2006 06:48 pm, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Gentle ones, > > If anyone out there covets Nancy Goyne Evans latest book, "Windsor-Chair > Making in America" but finds the $65 price tag too dear, be aware > walmart.com has it for $38.49. > > No affiliation and somewhat ashamed to admit to the transaction. Speaking of book bargains, I recently got W.B.McKay's "Joinery" book which was published back in 1947. I got it used on Amazon for $0.01, and $3.49 to ship. It arrived pretty quick actually, they must make $$$s on the shipping, it looked like they had some type of meter... This book is fabulous for doors, windows, and stairs. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158589 ---- From: John Junkroski Date: 2006-03-24 01:38:57 Subject: Re: Oak galls Decades ago I was told that at the time of the writing of the Constitution ink was often made by soaking oak galls in vinegar with an iron nail. " 4. gall \ : a swelling or excrescence of the tissues of a plant that results usu. from the attacks of parasites... and in some instances forms an important source of tannin." Webster's Third. For years I would entertain my students by dropping a few galls into a dilute acetic acid solution with a paper clip... instant ink. Probably a pretty good wood stain. It certainly stained fingers and the clothing they were wiped on. Anybody wants to try this, send me an envelope and I'll go out and pluck half a dozen galls off my burr oaks. While I'm out there I'm going to look for the ubiquitous galls of the goldenrod and try the trick with them. Ain't science wonderful. Junk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158590 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-24 08:05:55 Subject: Frame Saw Question I've been looking to make a frame saw for a while. Most people apparently use band saw stock for the blade. If I had an old handsaw and could adapt the blade for frame saw use, would that be a good idea, a bad idea, or just depend on how well I could do it? Trying to avoid pursuit of a wild goose . . . Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA (where we're still getting snow flurries, and the ground was white again the other day) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158591 ---- From: "Bruce Dissel" Date: 2006-03-24 13:06:58 Subject: FS- Antique and Collectible Stanley Tools by John Walter Greetings I have a paperback copy of Walters big book for sale.Second edition 1996.885 p.I would call the condition good used.Its not mint, its not beat.Cover good, no rips, a few light check marks in pencil next to a couple planes.Old owners name inside on one of those address labels you get in the mail. The spine has a bend in it,book has been used and maybe left open to a page a time or two. Spine tight, all pages tight. Old tool terms, first one to reply they want it, gets it.$100 Thanks, Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158592 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-24 08:27:28 Subject: Donald Duck Character Todd said, "Seller had a on the moon price of like $500 and tried his best to convince me the plane was in it's original box though he really didn't have a good augument to explain the Donald Duck characters on the side of the case I didn't think.....Todd" Galoots, That boy Todd is a caution, ain't he? LOL Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158593 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-24 07:18:19 Subject: RE: Prelateral Plane Deal, and I Missed It! That has to be the most unusual frankenplane (with apologies to Teressa) that I've ever seen. Looks almost like someone took to top of a block plane and mated it to the body of a ? scrub, maybe? #3? I can't tell, although the mouth looks a but wide. Rampant speculation, anyone? Robert A. Weber, PE Maurer-Stutz, Inc. Peoria, IL (309) 693-7615 www.maurerstutzinc.com http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6263661111 Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158594 ---- From: "S. Micah Salb" Date: 2006-03-24 09:09:01 Subject: Changing email delivery options? Hi, guys. Sorry to clutter with this message, but can anyone tell me how I can change my delivery options for OldTools? I can't find anything on FAQs, etc. Thanks! -Micah ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158595 ---- From: Jim Erdman Date: 2006-03-24 06:10:31 Subject: WTB certain tools (chain drill, breast drill, bit ext.) Hello Galoots, It has been a while since I posted a WTB. I am still looking for a certain style of chain drill with 2 chains and a built in crank. Also looking for a Goodell Pratt No 99 ratchet to use with my minty No 309 chain drill. And I would like to find a Goodell Pratt "Giant" breast drill, model No 58, 59, or 60. These are all shown here, in old catalog pages: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=9 I am also always interested in any bit extensions or chain drills that I don't already have. To see some of what I have: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=169 Didn't realize that the pics of chain drills were so huge, will try to figure out how to reduce them on this unfamiliar computer that I am using today. And of course I am always looking for unusual or "different" breast drills to add to my accumulation. Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158596 ---- From: "Kaye, Danny" Date: 2006-03-24 14:29:01 Subject: RE: Frame Saw Question I used standard coping saw blades to make a small frame saw and I( have adapted large (power**) hack saw blades to bigger frame saws. Danny Kaye Course leader Multimedia tel: 0115 8482231 mobile: 07968113686 -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Gary K Sent: 24 March 2006 13:06 To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] Frame Saw Question I've been looking to make a frame saw for a while. Most people apparently use band saw stock for the blade. If I had an old handsaw and could adapt the blade for frame saw use, would that be a good idea, a bad idea, or just depend on how well I could do it? Trying to avoid pursuit of a wild goose . . . Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA (where we're still getting snow flurries, and the ground was white again the other day) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158597 ---- From: "Hal Laurent" Date: 2006-03-24 10:36:14 Subject: RE: Frame Saw Question Kaye, Danny wrote: > I used standard coping saw blades to make a small frame saw and I( have > adapted large (power**) hack saw blades to bigger frame saws. Did you really mean coping saw blades? That would be an awfully small frame saw. -- Hal Laurent Baltimore ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158598 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-24 08:09:52 Subject: Re: Frame Saw Question On Mar 24, 2006, at 5:05 AM, Gary K wrote: > I've been looking to make a frame saw for a while. > Most people apparently use band saw stock for the blade. If I had > an old handsaw and > could adapt the blade for frame saw use, would that be a good idea, > a bad idea, or just > depend on how well I could do it? > > Trying to avoid pursuit of a wild goose . . . Gary-- One big advantage of flexible bandsaw blade (and similar) is that it makes a considerably thinner kerf than a reg'lar push-type handsaw, which means less work for the operator and less waste. If you want to rip stock with a handsaw, why not just use the handsaw, and forget the limitations of the frame. By this I mean: with a rip handsaw you can cut a piece of any width. With a center-blade framesaw the width of the stock is limited by the capacity of the frame to fit over it. I'm talking about the type shown in the lower part of the screen at: http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/ShakerBoxes/index.html#Band or under "Framesaw" at: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/woodworking/jigs.phtml or at: http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3 I would think that the price of a new bandsaw blade in bubblepack at the Borg would be worth it for having crisp teeth, clean steel, etc. They don't cost much, and you should be able to get 2 or more framesaw blades out of one looper. I have used 6 tpi, non-hook, 1/2" wide D*lta bandsaw blades for this, to good effect, for framesaws meant for ripping stock. This non-industrial variety blade can be cut with a hacksaw (clamp it across the jaws of a machinists vise and cut off the side), and drilled with your post drill, eggbeater, or motorized device. Dimple with center punch where you want the holes to go. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158599 ---- From: Jerry Davis Date: 2006-03-24 13:18:21 Subject: Re: Prelateral Plane Deal, and I Missed It! "Robert Weber" wrote: > That has to be the most unusual frankenplane (with apologies to Teressa) > that I've ever seen. Looks almost like someone took to top of a block plane > and mated it to the body of a ? scrub, maybe? #3? I can't tell, although > the mouth looks a but wide. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6263661111 The body looks like it came from a Shelton "blade adjuster through the lever cap" smoother. The threaded rod w/nut holding the tote is pretty distinctive. The blade may be original but the "cap" is from some unidentifiable block plane. A previous owner probably threw the original lever cap away. :-) I'm the proud owner of one of those Shelton marvels. I bought it at a fleamarket several years ago because it looked cool and unusual. Later, I realized what I had done. :-) Jerry Griffin, GA but headed for the west coast... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158600 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-24 10:21:21 Subject: interesting morning so i get to work (i work at a university in-plant print shop) and am starting my day when one of my co-workers asks me if i still want the lens off the big, old nu-arc camera we used to shoot film for printing with. naturally i jumped up to see what was going on, and the movers were here to dismantle it and take it to the dump (apparently the identical camera is on *bay for $9.95, with one bid, so they figured it was not worth the trouble). i started taking parts: i now have a piece of 3/8" plate glass 24" x 36" in size, held in a welded, anodized aluminum frame. i have three aluminum straight edges that used to be marking rules for adjusting the camera. and i have the vacuum system that used to hold the film to the back of the camera, vacuum pump (with foot switch), vacuum hose and end connection, the backing plastic (that contains the vacuum), cast iron (aluminum?) frame plate holder, and the frame plate (with all the little holes). certainly a one-off opportunity for me to collect things i can use in the shop, and now i am nearly set with the components for a vacuum veneering system. of course, its a couple-five years away from being realized, but it's a nifty vacuum pump in the meantime! i left the tungsten light fixtures, as they require 240 watts (2 banks of 2) and get really, really hot. maybe they'd work for drying finishes, but i don't see how i can plan *that* far ahead ('cause it requires space, which means a shop, which means building the shop, which isn't going to happen within the near-term). anyone have experience setting up a vacuum system for veneering? (i know it's not "old tools", but the camera is from the 60s, so...) i'd love to discuss via pmail. the plate glass i'll use as a work surface for lapping, it's big enough to do a #8 and actually work. best, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158601 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-24 13:22:05 Subject: Re: Changing email delivery options? Thanks, Micah. Your message had me go to the administrator page and look at the footer information for the first time in quite a while. I noticed that the link to the "General Information" page is included, but not explicitly identified as the place to go to make changes. I added an explicit link, but the other one is done in a form of Greek HTML that will require us to wait until Chris returns from a weekend mushing outing to fix. I also noticed some mixed up links at the General Info page that are now fixed. In summary, visit the General Info page to get access to all the controls you need to tailor your Oldtools fix: http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools Regards, Steve >From: "S. Micah Salb" Hi, guys. Sorry to clutter with this >message, but can anyone tell me how I can change my delivery options >for OldTools? I can't find anything on FAQs, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158602 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-24 15:01:06 Subject: raised bed gardens one more time.... OK gang, after the last round, I did a bunch of looking, and found that about the only locally available lumber with decent ground contact survivability is red cedar (no locust or redwood), but its 'way expensive (comes out to something like $200 for a 4'x8'x1' bed). As I'm looking at putting in 12 of these, this just isn't an option. I need to contain the beds somehow, so was wondering about some other (cheaper) locally available woods. Most notably, White Ash. I have access to oak (rough and green) pretty cheap, but its not good for the soil. If I can't find something reasonable priced, I'm going to have to go with plain old dimension 2x6, and plan to replace them a few at a time..... Thanks folks --JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158603 ---- From: Jerry Davis Date: 2006-03-24 15:30:45 Subject: Correction I looked at my cheesy plane collection when I got home and I was incorrect identifying a frakenplane body as a Shelton. Actually the threaded rod and nut handle looks like a Goodall plane handle. I have one of those crappy planes too, with a Stanley Gage like lever cap. However, it has a post and adjusting screw behind the frog. There is a picture of one in PTAMPIA II page 287. In summation, ignore my comments because I don't know what the h*ll I'm talking about. :-) Best, Jerry Griffin, GA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158604 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-24 12:34:02 Subject: Re: Prelateral Plane Deal, and I Missed It! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6263661111 Hey I have one of these! I took it for an early plane project. It's really skinny for you average smoother. It could have been a heavier casting. But I took it anyway. Pulled the pitiful wood and cut down the bed to a bit shorter than a #2 length. Made up some rosewood instead. Then made a lever cap and cut down a super thick Sandusky (probably, maybe Ohio) blade for width to fit. Hadda use something to close up the gaping maw of a throat! It's a fairly cute little beastie now. And you thought all the gloats were used up? hee heeeeee http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3716 > a Shelton "blade adjuster through the >lever cap" smoother. > Say, does anyone have one of these in their junk bin? Or better other lever cap/blade adjuster setup? I'd like to just borrow one. Lever cap adjusters are intriguing me at the moment. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158605 ---- From: M P Smoak Date: 2006-03-24 16:57:02 Subject: Re: Re: Oak galls Very interesting, galls and inkmaking; fits with what I learned as a kid growing up on the edge of a North Edisto river swamp in SC. The the waters black cause the river gets lots of oak leaves and iron minerals from the forrests. But I never heard about the oak galls. Wondering what they look like I did a quick search: http://beta.forestryimages.org/browse/subimages.cfm?SUB=1027 Lot of folks think black water looks scary. I've always liked it. Peaceful and refreshing after a long hot days work. Marv in Lexington, KY recalling other times On Friday 24 March 2006 02:38, John Junkroski wrote: > Decades ago I was told that at the time of the writing of the > Constitution > ink was often made by soaking oak galls in vinegar with an iron nail. > > " 4. gall \ : a swelling or excrescence of the tissues of a plant > that results > usu. from the attacks of parasites... and in some instances forms > an important > source of tannin." Webster's Third. > > For years I would entertain my students by dropping a few galls into > a dilute acetic acid solution with a paper clip... instant ink. > > Probably a pretty good wood stain. > > It certainly stained fingers and the clothing > they were wiped on. > > Anybody wants to try this, send me an envelope and I'll go out and > pluck half a dozen galls off my burr oaks. > > While I'm out there I'm going to look for the ubiquitous galls of the > goldenrod > and try the trick with them. > > Ain't science wonderful. > > Junk > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration > of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158606 ---- From: "Bob Beckwith" Date: 2006-03-24 17:32:07 Subject: Recent Projects. Have not posted much lately but thought I would share some pictures on the GI site of some recent projects: First dovetails, New Lathe modifications, Dust collection Table, Dust collection boot for lathe, and a BD workmate. Can anyone advise as to the vintage of the Workmate? Bob Beckwith Innisfail, Alberta "Just a heartbeat away from the Rockies" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158607 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-24 19:54:38 Subject: Re: Returning member On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Jimlemon@a... wrote: > I've just returned to the porch (do you still call it that?) after a > lengthy > absence, and after a bit of lurking, I think I might have noticed that > things are being done a bit differently. For example, I haven't > noticed any gloats > (and not a single 'You Suck!') and only one spittoon being polished. > Are > these relics of a bygone day? I mean, I'm just askin'... > > Welcome back, Jim. Grab your old rocker and hang on a moment. It's a cold spring. As soon as the thermometer rises and the garage sales and fleamarkets get going, the gloats will pour in. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158608 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-24 19:55:26 Subject: Tannic Acid Source I wrote in yesterday but forgot to switch to plain text. (Long day yesterday). When i was younger I had a chemistry set so that I could do all kinds of cool stuff. The instruction book was alway scalling for tannic acid. It said a good source was instant tea. It worked for the experiments, I don't know how it will work for staining wood. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158609 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-25 10:57:55 Subject: Re: was Oak galls - now Ti Trees M P Smoak wrote: > Very interesting, galls and inkmaking; fits with what I learned as a > kid growing up on the edge of a North Edisto river swamp in SC. The > the waters black cause the river gets lots of oak leaves and iron > minerals from the forrests. > > Lot of folks think black water looks scary. I've always liked it. > Peaceful and refreshing after a long hot days work. > > Marv in Lexington, KY recalling other times > Hi Marv, thanks for that. You got me thinking. As kids we spent a lot of time swimming in a lake that was stained black by the tanins from the Ti Trees around - the trees discussed in a recent thread about Ti Tree Oil. http://www.lennox-head.net/lennoxhead/lake.html I wonder if Ti Tree leaves might be used for a similar staining process for us Aussies that don't have access to oak galls. I've filed this away to experiment some time in the future. -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158610 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-24 19:11:07 Subject: Re: Recent Projects. GG, Bob, It appears to be a type 2 with replaced top...not sure about the top but it doesn't look original to me. It is one of the better mutts... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158611 ---- From: "Bob Beckwith" Date: 2006-03-24 18:35:32 Subject: Recent projects Yes I replaced the top myself. They brought them out in 73 so I would guess it is mid 70's would that be correct? Bob Beckwith Innisfail, Alberta "Just a heartbeat away from the Rockies" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158612 ---- From: "Bob Beckwith" Date: 2006-03-24 18:52:35 Subject: Magnolia wood Question I have not had any experience with this wood but a friend has had a lot of it given to him random lengths of rough 1" by 4". Does this wood have a greenish tinge to it? Any suggestions as to projects with this wood? Turning etc. Bob Beckwith Innisfail, Alberta "Just a heartbeat away from the Rockies" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158613 ---- From: "Bob Beckwith" Date: 2006-03-24 18:58:33 Subject: Magnolia wood Just a little searching and I answered my own question: http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/magnolia.php Bob Beckwith Innisfail, Alberta "Just a heartbeat away from the Rockies" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158614 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-24 22:17:42 Subject: Cutting Masonite After much consideration, I've decided to go with a tempered masonite top for my new bench. I seriously considered hardwood flooring but, for now, the masonite suits my needs. I can always replace it with hardwood later. For those who may recall, the bench has a 2.5" spruce slab for the top and I need to add a tougher working surface on top. So now it's time to buy the 1/4" masonite and get to work. I'm looking for tips or advice on how to cut the masonite. I'm not set up to run full sheets through my table saw ( once the bench is done, I'll be able to use it as an outfeed table) so I'm considering using a jigsaw to cut close to the line and then plane to the line. If this makes sense, should I work from the back side of the masonite so that any tearout occurs on the underside? How well does masonite plane? All advice is appreciated. Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick Getting warmer every day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158615 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-24 20:29:26 Subject: Re: Recent projects Bob, Mid 70s sounds about right. In addition to having the cast aluminum (aluminium) frame, it has the cast handles as well. That should make it among the early ones. As you can see here, the one I have of that type has the plastic spinner on the right handle missing. http://tinyurl.com/lzmw7 The next version still had the cast aluminum frame, but the handles were entirely plastic. http://tinyurl.com/olryr (I replaced the original beat-up top with the mahogany top shown here.) Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Beckwith" To: "Oldtools" Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: [OldTools] Recent projects > Yes I replaced the top myself. They brought them out in 73 so I would > guess > it is mid 70's would that be correct? > > Bob Beckwith > Innisfail, Alberta > "Just a heartbeat away from the Rockies" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158616 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-03-24 21:32:36 Subject: RE: raised bed gardens one more time.... I'll reiterate that I made two 4' x 8' raised beds out of borg common 2x12's and they work just peachy. Wifey wants me to make another one, in fact. I figure that even though it's just plain ol' pine, it will still take several years to really rot out - they show no real signs yet, and have been in the ground coming up on two years. They're just a little silvery-grey from weather. I figure that given how cheap a standard 8-foot pine 2x12 is, I can afford to replace them every 4-5 years or however long they last. Heck, for all I know they might last even longer than that - as long as no termites get into them. ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > James DuPrie > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:01 PM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] raised bed gardens one more time.... > > > OK gang, after the last round, I did a bunch of looking, and > found that about the only locally available lumber with > decent ground contact survivability is red cedar (no locust > or redwood), but its 'way expensive (comes out to something > like $200 for a 4'x8'x1' bed). As I'm looking at putting in > 12 of these, this just isn't an option. > > I need to contain the beds somehow, so was wondering about some other > (cheaper) locally available woods. Most notably, White Ash. I > have access to oak (rough and green) pretty cheap, but its > not good for the soil. If I can't find something reasonable > priced, I'm going to have to go with plain old dimension 2x6, > and plan to replace them a few at a time..... > > > Thanks folks > > --JD > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > > To > read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158617 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-24 20:33:48 Subject: Re: Recent projects Sorry, the tinyurls don't seem to work. Try these: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3734&sessionid- =b298168fc89235ad5495bab61fa5a534 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3735&sessionid- =b298168fc89235ad5495bab61fa5a534 Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Sronce" To: "Oldtools" Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Recent projects > Bob, > > Mid 70s sounds about right. In addition to having the cast aluminum > (aluminium) frame, it has the cast handles as well. That should make > it among the early ones. As you can see here, the one I have of that > type has the plastic spinner on the right handle missing. > > http://tinyurl.com/lzmw7 > > The next version still had the cast aluminum frame, but the handles > were entirely plastic. > > http://tinyurl.com/olryr > > (I replaced the original beat-up top with the mahogany top > shown here.) > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Beckwith" To: > "Oldtools" Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:35 PM > Subject: [OldTools] Recent projects > > >> Yes I replaced the top myself. They brought them out in 73 so I would >> guess it is mid 70's would that be correct? >> >> Bob Beckwith Innisfail, Alberta "Just a heartbeat away from the >> Rockies" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158618 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-03-24 21:37:37 Subject: RE: Cutting Masonite I can speak from experience with tempered Masonite. If you can, I would use a c*rc*l*r saw with a fine blade. You can get a pretty smooth cut. It tends to get kinda shredded on the edge otherwise. A jigsaw will work, but as you suggest, work on the backside and stay proud of the line because it will leave a fuzzy, shredded edge. It planes very nicely, actually, but it will dull the iron pretty quickly, and planing it generates heat much more than planing wood, because it's a whole lot of wood fibers packed tight, with no pore spaces, held together with who knows what kind of binder. But if you get the iron good and sharp, it leaves a crisp, clean edge when planed. ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim McVicar > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:18 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Cutting Masonite > > > > After much consideration, I've decided to go with a tempered > masonite top for my new bench. I seriously considered > hardwood flooring but, for now, the masonite suits my needs. > I can always replace it with hardwood later. For those who > may recall, the bench has a 2.5" spruce slab for the top and > I need to add a tougher working surface on top. > > So now it's time to buy the 1/4" masonite and get to work. > I'm looking for tips or advice on how to cut the masonite. > I'm not set up to run full sheets through my table saw ( once > the bench is done, I'll be able to use it as an outfeed > table) so I'm considering using a jigsaw to cut close to the > line and then plane to the line. If this makes sense, should > I work from the back side of the masonite so that any tearout > occurs on the underside? How well does masonite plane? > > All advice is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Jim > > Saint John, New Brunswick > Getting warmer every day. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > > To > read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158619 ---- From: Bill Webber Date: 2006-03-24 21:55:49 Subject: Free Wood As the subject line sez, this stuff is free... for local pick-up... no shipping. These are scraps from some snake puzzles I made years ago. Mostly thin lengths up to a little over a foot. I'm thinking they might be useful for someone who wants to experiment with inlay work or some such. I've kept this stuff for years and haven't had the heart to throw it away. there are pieces of Ziricote, Bocote, Comotillo, Granadillo, Cocobolo, Honduran Rosewood, Snakewood, Purpleheart, plus other stuff... definitely small project stuff. Located in Highland MD 20777... contact me off list. -- Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/wWebber/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158620 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-24 22:07:24 Subject: Re: Recent Projects. GG, Bob, lets see, I got married in '76, SWMBO bought me a Mutt for our first X-Mas together and its a type 2, same year (late) MIL bought (late) FIL one, (which I now have) and it is also a type 2, mid-70's sounds right to me... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158621 ---- From: "David C." Date: 2006-03-24 20:09:01 Subject: Citric acid question Ok, I got a one pound bag of citric acid from the local homebrew store. It was the largest quantity they sold and it was six bucks. What's the recommended amount to mix for de-rusting say, a jack plane, just for instance? I would probably be using four or five gallons of water. Thanks Dave C (the new one) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158622 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-24 22:20:32 Subject: little saws GG, I've recently been replacing the bayonet handles on some dovetail saws that I have with an open handle...makes them a lot nicer to use. They are both contemporary so I'm not ruining antique tools... http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3658 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3659 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3733 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3732 Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158623 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-24 23:16:32 Subject: Galoot afternoon... Well, I played hooky from work this afternoon (well, not exactly....I let work know before hand and will note the appropriate vacation hours :-)) to go to the Woodworking show at the Dulles Expo center. I had planned to go from 1-4 and then hit my errands, etc. That was not to be the case. Mr. Marc Adams (he runs a well know woodworking school in Indiana I think) was giving seminars on glues (the different kinds and what they're most useful for), sharpening (scapers, chisels) and joinery (hand cut dovetails and router cut mortise/tenant.) I stayed until 5:30 to see all of it. He's an excellent teacher and I learned a lot! Well worth the change in plans! I also bought his DVD on finishing...a subject I have very limited knowledge on right now. Tomorrow I'm thinking of going back and seeing a finishing seminar given by another speaker and I might check out a "tips" seminar Mr. Adams is giving. It was very interesting seeing his approach to cutting Dovetails vs. Mr. Klausz. He's a little more precise in his setup (he actually used a measuring gage to lay out the intial pins) and talked about the fact that you can't have the angle too much or too little. Another difference is he used a Japanese saw rather than a dovetail saw. I terns of purchases I also bought two clamps for woodworking and a set of 5 tiny clamps for plastic modeling. Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158624 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-24 22:23:09 Subject: Re: little saws GG, And this is how I went about it... http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/tools/dovetail%20saw/dovetailSaw.asp or http://tinyurl.com/gfc2n Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158625 ---- From: "Ted Shuck" Date: 2006-03-24 22:16:09 Subject: Side handle for #9, the un-hotdog I received a LN #9 miter plane for Christmas from LOML. I just couldn't bring myself to ask for or buy the $50 hotdog handle offered for it. After using it for a while with the side knob, I began to feel the need for a better side handle for this thing. So, I made one. Took a scrap of cherry, planed a rabbet to fit over the plane body, shaped it, drilled a hole for a 1/4-20 screw, attached it, and tried it out. A great improvement. I don't know if this is as good as the "real" hotdog, but it sure is more comfy than the side knob that came with it. Pics at: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3742 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3741 Best Regards, Ted ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158626 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-24 22:49:21 Subject: Re: little saws On Friday 24 March 2006 08:20 pm, roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > I've recently been replacing the bayonet handles on some dovetail saws > that I have with an open handle...makes them a lot nicer to use. They are > both contemporary so I'm not ruining antique tools... > > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id Nice Roy! -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158627 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-24 23:18:53 Subject: Re: Re: little saws Roy Sez I have modified it somewhat because of the small size of the blade. The tote's the thing. The simplest, the hardest, the brave and the fair. Noplace to hide. Shazam Good Work Roy yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158628 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-25 05:46:35 Subject: Re: SawNuts GG, Bob all the saw nuts I've used so far have been donated by saws that were to far gone to save...saws that I bought for the saw nuts and medalions. You might be able to buy some new split nut type sawnuts from Mike Wenzloff and sons... http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/index.html Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158629 ---- From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" Date: 2006-03-25 07:19:07 Subject: Re: Re: SawNuts roygriggs@v... wrote: >GG, > Bob all the saw nuts I've used so far have been donated by saws that were >to far gone to save...saws that I bought for the saw nuts and medalions. > You might be able to buy some new split nut type sawnuts from Mike >Wenzloff and sons... >http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/index.html > > > For what it's worth, Item 20066 at http://www.acehardware.com (search by Item#) is a 10 pack of replacement saw screws ($7.11). I ordered a set a little while ago and used a pair to rehandle a a dovetail saw much like Roy did. If you have an Ace Hardware store near you, they'll ship directly to the store with no shipping charges. I had mine shipped directly to me and recieved them in fairly short order. No affiliation etc. Keith In Ballston Lake where I head up to see St. Roy in a couple of hours... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158630 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-25 05:04:24 Subject: My carving pages on OldToolsShop Forgive me if you have already seen this. I can't find it in the archive, and I never received it. I have rearranged my carving pages on the OldToolsShop site, added a couple of items, and written a little history of my involvement in carving and how that came to be. It is at the bottom of the page. You might enjoy reading it. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/jThompson/carving/index.asp Comments are always welcome. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158631 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-25 08:11:02 Subject: Re: Citric acid question I use a cup of citric acid per gallon of water, but I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. YMMV. David C. (The just slightly older one) In Branford CT where the morning is mild and the Crocuses (Croci?) are up! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158632 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-25 08:38:52 Subject: Re: little saws Roy, I bought that very same set of tooles de la Francais. Ils sont les jouets cruels feignant pour être des outils ! I have rehandled 2 of them but filed the poorly cut teeth entirely off in a fit of rage and haven't yet cut new ones. The boxwood (from real shipping boxes) handle on the gent's saw had nearly a right angle bend in it. I keep it as a reminder not to buy tools based on pretty pictures in catalogs. For the same money I bought a LN dovetail saw, it is nice, but I was robbed of the joy of dissolving the 1/8- inch of lacquer that was drooled onto the Paragon. Likewise I miss the magenta paint job on the handles, the sharp points on the horns that were designed to raise blisters in unlikely places and the smeary black ink with which they proudly mark the tool...and your tenon cheeks and dovetails. Heck, the LN saw was no fun at all! Nothing to fix and it cut straight, true and fast right out of the box! You've done a beautiful job! Now to replace the blade and spine and you will have a premium tool! Never post before coffee! David C In Branford CT by the lovely (if stinky) Lon Gisland Sound ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158633 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-25 08:40:02 Subject: Re: Steel Square Question Steve, My 100 square with V logo has no paint in the lettering. Walter's lists five possible finishes for the 100 or R100 variant (having rafters tables), but makes no mention of the lettering being painted. I suspect your prior owner tangled with some spilled pink paint, but more knowledgeable others may chime in at this point. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Lineback" To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:44 PM Subject: [OldTools] Steel Square Question >I have an R100 V ( think Type 11) logo steel square. >Other than some rust an a lot of dirt it is in good >shape and as far as I can tell both true square and >dead flat. I am going to clean it up and put it back >in service but the question is, what color did >Stanley use in the numbers? There isn't enough left >to have a clue. The only paint left has a faint pink >cast and I can't see that as a strong selling point >in 1910 though it might find a limited market today. > Steve > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158634 ---- From: MALDK@a... Date: 2006-03-25 08:53:59 Subject: Plane Blade Query GG My son recently bought a wood body jointer plane with a birdseye maple body to replace the Stanley no 7 he made the mistake of dropping. The blade is marked: "JOWIT EXTRA" in a semicircle with "CAST STEEL " in a line on the diameter of the semicircle and" S. DALPE" in a line below that. the cap iron is marked "J. HOAR" twice, which I assume is an owners mark. Does anyone know of an "S. DALPE", when and where he worked etc.? The plane was bought in Maine at Hull's Cove Tool Barn. Thank you for any help. Malcolm Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158635 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-25 09:00:53 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 37 Re: [OldTools] book bargain Alan wrote >> I recently got W.B.McKay's "Joinery" book which was published back in 1947. << This was THE text book when I did my apprenticeship. Mackay also did a 3 volume set on Building Construction. All were in a hardbound large format and the technical drawing illustrations are superb. I lent out all 4 at various times and never got them back :-( (So if anyone out there sees any of the old editions; I.E., NOT Metric! please give me a heads up. I frequently do a Google for these items and have never found them. So Alan you should make this a gloat! Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158636 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-03-25 09:26:56 Subject: Sensory Overload Yes, folks, I'm in sensory overload. Just tuned into the Woodworking channel: http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/ I'm sitting and listening to Sam Maloof talk about his life and work as I key this in. 24/7 (all day, every day, Jeff) of nothing but woodworking. There is a strong possibility that my interest will evolve rapidly into obsession. Then there's Woodworking in Action: http://www.woodworkinginaction.com/ A woodworking magazine in DVD format. I received their first two DVDs yesterday, but can't comment on them yet. I'm saving them as reading/viewing material for a three-week business trip that begins today. Then there's Taunton's Fine Woodworking Network: http://www.taunton.com/fwn/subscription/index.aspx Access to everything FWW has published at about $15 per year for subscribers. Then there's Popular Woodworking with all the great changes Chris has been making. Then there's... Well, you get the idea... Life is good. Chuck Myers, home but briefly in SW PA, Spring going into Fall as I head southward. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158637 ---- From: Darrell & Kathy Date: 2006-03-25 10:39:55 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Query MALDK@a... wrote: > My son recently bought a wood body jointer plane with a birdseye > maple body to replace the Stanley no 7 he made the mistake of > dropping. The blade is marked: "JOWIT EXTRA" in a semicircle with > "CAST STEEL " in a line on the diameter of the semicircle and" S. > DALPE" in a line below that. the cap iron is marked "J. HOAR" > twice, which I assume is an owners mark. Does anyone know of an "S. > DALPE", when and where he worked etc.? I just pulled my handy little book "Guide to Canadian Plane Makers & Hardware Dealers (3rd Ed)" off the shelf (also available from the Maclachlan Woodworking Museum in Kingston ON, see http://www.cityofkingston.ca/visitors/museums/maclachlan/index.asp ) and there is an entry for Sem Dalpe. Working dates were 1858 to 1894 in Roxton Pond, Quebec. -- Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158638 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-25 10:11:18 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Query On 25 Mar., Darrell & Kathy wrote: > > I just pulled my handy little book "Guide to Canadian Plane > Makers & Hardware Dealers (3rd Ed)" off the shelf (also available > from the Maclachlan Woodworking Museum in Kingston ON, see > http://www.cityofkingston.ca/visitors/museums/maclachlan/index.asp ) > and there is an entry for Sem Dalpe. It's been awhile since Jacques Heroux has posted to the list, but he has a nice website that includes a bit of history about Sem Dalpe and plane-making at Roxton Pond. The website's at: http://www.cafe.rapidus.net/jacherou/index_a.html Somewhere in the archives I think there's a report by Paul Pedersen about a trip to Roxton Pond, but I can't locate it at the moment. Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158639 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-25 12:26:32 Subject: Plane Advise Wanted My shop has a need for cutting an occasional bead of several different sizes and locations on the board. Also, being able to cut a hollow or round would be useful. Is there a multi or combination plane that would work well for such things? I would want a quality tool that would work well and not take 3 engineers and a toolmaker a week to setup properly. Am I asking too much? Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158640 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-25 13:14:44 Subject: Re: Plane Advise Wanted Hi Bill in Manchester, I use a Stanley 45 for beading and it works quite well. Once you get the hang of the set-up it's really not all that hard. Mine works best with small beads, as they get larger, apparently the cutting geometry gets worse and much of the cutter is at more of a scraping angle. This is according to Larry Williams of Clark & Williams. I'm not so good with the math, but I do have a harder time with 3/8 and 1/2-inch beads. You can get hollow and round cutters and bases for the 45, but it would be cheaper to buy gold ingots and cast your own. I managed to buy a pristine set of H & R's from Patrick Leach for the mere price of a really nice sh*per. But they are Boooteeful and I wouldn't be without them. Best Regards, David in Branford ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158641 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-25 10:27:52 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Query On 25 Mar 2006 at 8:53, MALDK@a... wrote: > "J. HOAR" twice, which I assume is an owners mark. Does anyone know of > an "S. DALPE", when and where he worked etc.? The plane was bought in > Maine at Hull's Cove Tool Barn. That would be Sem Dalpe, one of the better-known plane makers of Roxton Pond, Quebec, Canada. The MacLachlan museum has a reprint of his 1889 catalog, so that's at least an in-range date of his working years. Ah, the golden age of wooden molding planes. I don't own the catalog, although I did buy the Emond catalog from them. https://www.cityofkingston.ca/visitors/museums/maclachlan/books.asp -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158642 ---- From: Craig Treleaven Date: 2006-03-25 15:02:47 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Query At 10:39 AM -0500 3/25/06, Darrell & Kathy wrote: > MALDK@a... wrote: > >>My son recently bought a wood body jointer plane with a birdseye maple >>body to replace the Stanley no 7 he made the mistake of dropping. The >>blade is marked: "JOWIT EXTRA" in a semicircle with "CAST STEEL " in a >>line on the diameter of the semicircle and" S. DALPE" in a line below >>that. the cap iron is marked "J. HOAR" twice, which I assume is an >>owners mark. Does anyone know of an "S. DALPE", when and where he >>worked etc.? > >I just pulled my handy little book "Guide to Canadian Plane Makers & >Hardware Dealers (3rd Ed)" off the shelf (also available from the >Maclachlan Woodworking Museum in Kingston ON, see >http://www.cityofkingston.ca/visitors/museums/maclachlan/index.asp ) >and there is an entry for Sem Dalpe. > >Working dates were 1858 to 1894 in Roxton Pond, Quebec. The reprint of Dalpe's 1889 price list shows jointers from 24 to 30 inches in length costing from $1.80 to 2.40; razee an extra $.25. Bench plane irons--Jowitt's Best Cast Steel--were also offered. For example, a double cast steel plane iron, 2.5 inches, was $4.50. The reprint has a page offering a brief history of the Dalpe's and plane manufacturing at Roxton Pond. Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158643 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-25 12:37:06 Subject: Re: Re: SawNuts On Saturday 25 March 2006 04:19 am, Keith R. Fieldhouse wrote: > For what it's worth, Item 20066 at http://www.acehardware.com (search by > Item#) is a 10 pack of replacement saw screws ($7.11). I have also used these, they work fine. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158644 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-25 13:04:37 Subject: Re: Sensory Overload On 25 Mar 2006 at 9:26, Chuck Myers wrote: > > Yes, folks, I'm in sensory overload. Just tuned into the Woodworking > channel: > > http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/ > > I'm sitting and listening to Sam Maloof talk about his life and work as I > key this in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh~~~~~~~~~~~~ I just watched a guy make a bombay chest with a band saw and power sander. Quote: "Now we'll make a cloud of dust!" Made my lung hurt just to watch it. Old tools rock!!!! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158645 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-25 13:11:31 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 37 Re: [OldTools] book bargain On Saturday 25 March 2006 06:00 am, Peter Hyde wrote: > Alan wrote > > >> I recently got W.B.McKay's "Joinery" book which was published > >> back > > in 1947. << This was THE text book when I did my apprenticeship. I still for the life of me can't figure out why it would only be sold for $0.01 from a used book company. If you check on Amazon now, there's one used for $75.55, go figure!;-) Interesting way I found out about this book. You might remember I posted a pic of a double dovetail joint, the same guy in the U.K. that had the 4 sided dovetail (created on 2 sliding dovetails, sliding together from the corner) on ebay. A really nice guy whom I ended up exchanging several emails with, finding out he was a bench joiner in the U.K., going back prior to before power tools. Facinating picking his brain, and he had scan'd a pic of the book cover (his is a tad different as his is the first edition). To my surprise I found it used on Amazon for $0.01 ($3.49 shipping) from Better World Books. He claimed this book to the the "Bible" for bench joiners. Also interesting to note that the bench joiners made the least amount of money in the U.K., while the carpenters working on building sites were paid higher. Also, as tailed apprentices became available, the shops had the apprentices dimension the lumber/timber for the bench joiners, using tailed apprentices, and in turn the bench joiners would then finish the joinery by hand. Even he admitted that there were jobs that became easier and faster by using a tailed router, and the foremen and workers did consider them to be a win-win in saving building costs and time taken for a given job. I found this all facinating, mostly because I have been planning to dimension and size much of my lumber/timber with tailed apprentices, but do all of the joinery by hand. This is all very similar. > Mackay also did a 3 volume set on Building Construction. All were in a > hardbound large format and the technical drawing illustrations are > superb. I lent out all 4 at various times and never got them back :-( > (So if anyone out there sees any of the old editions; I.E., NOT > Metric! please give me a heads up. I frequently do a Google for these > items and have never found them. McKay's Building Construction (Hardcover)(not available used) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1873394721/qid=1143320606/sr=1- 3/ref=sr_1_3/104-2106245-8122327?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 Carpentry (Building Craft Series) (Paperback) ($126.59 for a used copy) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0582425417/qid=1143320606/sr=1- 1/ref=sr_1_1/104-2106245-8122327?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 > So Alan you should make this a gloat! Well, I certain do now after seeing that other used one for $75 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0582425182/qid=1143320606/sr=1- 2/ref=sr_1_2/104-2106245-8122327?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 With that said, this book is very good for Doors, Windows, and Stairs, as I mentioned previously. Pretty good detailed door construction of various methods (single panel, 4 panel, 6 panel, etc...), and some good window info as well. Stairs look more challenging, but some good info. The book is quite a bit smaller than I had anticipated, especially if one was to pay $75 for it.;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158646 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-25 17:26:25 Subject: Gallot afternoon pt. 2.... Well, went back this morning to the wood show and saw some more demos. The first demo I saw was on turning bowls from wet wood. Interesting in that the main point was, you turn a rough shape, let it dry for a long time (months, although though putting the piece in boiling water and then putting it in a paper bag it can be sped up considerably) before finally finishing it. Otherwise it will warp as the wood dries. The second presentation was on an introduction to finishes by Mr. Jim Heavey. Very interesting. In particular how to sand to get consistent finishes (Never go over 220-240 grit except on the ends of wood which one can go to 600 grit (since they suck up stain), how to deal with very poreous woods where blotching is a problem (condition or seal depending on what you're looking for), how to color woods with dyes or stains, etc. Very helpful!! (Especially when I put it together with Mr. Adams video.) I then saw two presentations by Mr. Adams. One on "tips and tricks" and the second on veneering. Had he had a video on the later I would have bought it. He only had one on his decorative veneer work. I will say, that stuff is magic!! He feels that it's coming back and will become very important. Most of the finest craftspeople are now using it. You can do beautiful stuff VERY easily. I also stopped by the table of the Washington Woodworkers Guild. Unfortunately, making their meetings would be a bear logistically but I might join to get their newletter and take advantage of any weekend programs they have. They had a shaving horse set up that one of the members built which was really cool! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158647 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-25 17:37:48 Subject: The Widow GG's, SWMBO just visited the widow next door. SWMBO came back with a present for me, a 1949 copy of "Audel's Carpenters and Builders Guide, Volume 1". Looks like it was never read. SWMBO said she has lots more books to give away. I've been cooking her and her husband (recently expired) dinner every Sunday for 2 or 3 years now. I'll bet there's some tools that go with the books. Hmmmm......maybe I should try cookin' a turkey dinner. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158648 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-25 17:05:25 Subject: Re: little saws GG, David C. recognizes some cheap tools...well, I didn't know any better at the time. Haven't bought anything from that particular place since, even though they are highly spoken of! And a pillar of the community, they let on they were good saws, they weren't. The big saws with the red trimmed handles will be next up; so far I've only done the dovetail, there is nothing wrong with the brass or the steel, It just went to crap from that point on. New handle, new teeth, new set, waala useful saw. I don't really need them since they have been upgraded by a pair of Mike Wenzloff saws. But they do provide the excuse to make more handles... BTW, Mike It cuts like a dream, 2 strokes to establish a kerf and about 5 to bury it to the back....in hard maple! Well maybe 6 or 7 strokes but it was like cutting butter. I took a needle file (smallest I got) to the teeth on the paragon saw and it cuts fairly well now...not great but at least the teeth have points now.8^) The saw nuts are from crap saws that I paid $1 apiece for, lots of scraper mat'l... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158649 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-25 15:42:54 Subject: Re: Re: little saws Hey Roy The small saws are made of German spring steel as a general rule. Same as most expensive saws these days. Same as you'll get if you buy blue spring stock from Mcmaster or MSC. Same you'll get in the expensive hobby shops. As good a spring steel as you can find! You're gonna love them. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158650 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-25 16:25:48 Subject: old books There seems to be a bit of discovery going on with regards to old woodworking books. I just dug one up that I found in my parents bookcase titled "It's Fun To Make It Yourself". This book is from 1944, publsihed by "The Journal of Living Publishinig Corporation". In 380 pages the only electric tool is a soldering iron, and that is only offered a an alternative to gas fired bits or plumbers torches. This book starts with converting a spare room into a wookshop and ends with marking a homemade tennis court. The photos show a fellow in a shirt and tie with vest and his sleaves rolled up to hs elbows. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158651 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-25 17:03:19 Subject: Re: Gallot afternoon pt. 2.... On Mar 25, 2006, at 2:26 PM, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I then saw two presentations by Mr. Adams. One on "tips and tricks" > and the > second on veneering. Had he had a video on the later I would have > bought > it. He only had one on his decorative veneer work. I will say, that > stuff > is magic!! He feels that it's coming back and will become very > important. > Most of the finest craftspeople are now using it. You can do > beautiful > stuff VERY easily. Paul Schurch gives veneering seminars and has a web site at http://www.schurchwoodwork.com/ I have attended one of his workshops and I have a video he produced. Verrrrrrry interesting! Check it out. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158652 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-25 20:34:08 Subject: Only a Galoot I was working on a project yesterday and when I was cleaning up I realized that I had been using five braces , two size drills, two Phillips drivers and a countersink. It hit me that a lot of people would think it odd to own five braces. Its so much easier and QUIETER doing it that way and no extension cord or burned bits. Funny but I know several people who own more than five levtric drills and think nothing of it. Steve I have maybe one or two more than five braces. OK maybe three or four more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158653 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-03-25 20:00:18 Subject: RE: raised bed gardens one more time.... >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Taggart writes: Bill> I'll reiterate that I made two 4' x 8' raised beds out of Bill> borg common 2x12's and they work just peachy. Wifey wants Bill> me to make another one, in fact. Bill> I figure that even though it's just plain ol' pine, it will Bill> still take several years to really rot out - they show no Bill> real signs yet, and have been in the ground coming up on two Bill> years. They're just a little silvery-grey from weather. I Bill> figure that given how cheap a standard 8-foot pine 2x12 is, Bill> I can afford to replace them every 4-5 years or however long Bill> they last. Heck, for all I know they might last even longer Bill> than that - as long as no termites get into them. Bill> ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart I used 6 ft 1x6 cedar fence pickets. they are $2.50 each around here. We even used them to build the raised beds in the Community Garden that our church sponsored. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158654 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-03-25 20:11:07 Subject: Goodwill Auction A hearty good evening fellow Galoots, Last weekend, SWMBO and I stopped in the Goodwill Store to see what they had. The GITette picked up a nice barely worn prom dress for $25.00, and I discovered that the Goodwill Stores (in Austin at least) are conducting auctions to raise more money on interesting items. On Mondy, I put a bid of $15.00 in on a set of drills (MF No.2 eggbeater and a MF 732 10-inch brace). Friday, I increased my bid to $35.00 to outbid a $25.00 bid placed by another buyer. Today, on our way home from the Farmer's Market, I called and was told that my bid was the high bid. Pictures to follow. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Beautiful Brown Eggs from Free-Range Chickens, Free-Range Broilers & Turkeys Naturally Raised Grass-fed Lamb and Goat ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158655 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-25 21:34:17 Subject: Router I finished the router plane yesterday. I still need to oil it with BLO but it is done except for that. I took a picture of it with SWMBO's camera. Once I get them developed I will post them to GIC. I also took some pictures of my progress on my new workbench for posting since some people had asked about it. This morning at church was men's breakfast. A local pastor came by and gave a demonstration on how to make a bow with hand tools. Take a log, split the log, dry it, shape it with a draw knife, tiller it, shoot a deer. He uses hickory, ash, locust, or elm. One of his friends got him some Osage so he said he was going to try it for the first time this summer. He was suprised that I had my own shaving horse at home. I might try to make a bow from our Mulberry tree when we get it taken down if I can get a good piece from it. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158656 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-25 19:43:35 Subject: Re: Re: little saws On Saturday 25 March 2006 03:42 pm, scott grandstaff wrote: > The small saws are made of German spring steel as a general rule. Same > as most expensive saws these days. Same as you'll get if you buy blue > spring stock from Mcmaster or MSC. Same you'll get in the expensive > hobby shops. As good a spring steel as you can find! > You're gonna love them. > yours, Scott Scott, Even on newer saws, they feel a bit different from saw to saw. Older steel feels even different yet, IMO (emphasising my opinion;-), but the steel is but one factor. You also have the back, the teeth, rake, sharpness, fleam (for xcut), etc...even the hang of the handle. Most folks would do themself justice to at least sharpen hand saws, that seems to be one of the high neglect items for galoots. Why is it that folks will invest time in learning to sharpen their planes, as well as their chisels, but not their saws? Nobody gets chisels and expects to send them off to get sharpened, nor do they planes, spokeshaves, or other edge tools. Yet, over the years it seems to have become common practice for folks to send their saws out to get sharpened with the believe that they can't do it themself. There seems to be a trend where western style saws are coming back into fashion. Let's hope that more folks continue to learn how to sharpen them, because that is key in having a decent saw, even if it has a broom handle attached to it. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158657 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-25 20:25:18 Subject: Re: Re: little saws On Mar 25, 2006, at 7:43 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > Why is it that folks will invest time in learning to sharpen their > planes, as > well as their chisels, but not their saws? I know how to sharpen my saws, but I have not the patience or the time to do it. I simply drop them off at my local sharpener and for less than $10 each he sharpens them perfectly. I got better things to do. I will touch one up now and then, but when they get dull, I send them out. Iwould rather spend my time doing something I enjoy. There is no one to send a plane or a chisel to. I have to do that myself. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158658 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-25 23:28:51 Subject: Re: Re: little saws Jim, That idea is great for you, but in my area there is no one who knows how to sharpen saws - at least no one I know of. I have tried to sharpen a couple of saws myself, but I didn't have any luck. My eyes are too old for that sort of activity. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" To: "Alan DuBoff" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:little saws > I know how to sharpen my saws, but I have not the patience or the time > to do it. I simply drop them off at my local sharpener and for less > than $10 each he sharpens them perfectly. I got better things to do. > > I will touch one up now and then, but when they get dull, I send them > out. Iwould rather spend my time doing something I enjoy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158659 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-25 21:44:47 Subject: 29 minutes of fame and glory Executive summary-- Chopped a hole in the Yukon River, didn't die of a heart attack. Grunts and gestures, fellow galoots-- I have written about the Galena spring carnival and the ice pick contest several times before, and here I am doing it again. Sad to admit that I don't have more WW experiences to justify my notes to the list, but this one is almost close, because it involves using a hand made chisel to cut a very large mortise in the Yukon River. Here's a cite to one of my previous notes in the archives, describing the event in more detail-- http://tinyurl.com/jyb6v This year, the first place took 19 minutes, second place (me) was 29 minutes, and the other two entries presumably longer, because they didn't follow the essential beaver trapper's rule about keeping the hole bigger than your shovel. The ice this year was about 4.5 feet thick (1.3 meters, Jeff). SWMBO and I both had the day off on Friday, so we spent the afternoon driving snowgoes about 35 miles up the Yukon to visit our hermit friend Andy. On the way there, we amused ourselves by picking up lost and discarded dog booties left over from the Iditarod teams that went through a couple of weeks ago. On the way back, we spent a nice overnight at our campsite upriver from town, and got back in time to watch the end of the dogsled and snowshoe racing events and to participate in the ice pick event. Dogsled racing is the big event, with races for anyone (two 16 mile races on Friday and Saturday), women, old timers (over 65, limited to 8 dogs), children of various ages (one, two, three, and six dog limits depending on age), snowshoe races for men, women, and children, and the ice pick event, which is an artifact of beaver trapping, because beaver traps are set below the ice. And finally, after years of agonizing, I bought a pair of really nice handmade snowshoes today from George Albert, a local galoot who provides footwear to pretty much all of the well dressed snowshoe racers and backwoodsmen along this part of the river. They are 4-1/2 feet long, made of hand split and shaved local birch laced with caribou hide (babiche) and nylon twine. Twice the price of commercial stuff, but I paid it with pleasure. Now I guess I better learn to use them.... PK ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158660 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-26 00:47:54 Subject: Re: Re: little saws On Saturday 25 March 2006 09:28 pm, Frank Sronce wrote: > Jim, > > That idea is great for you, but in my area there is no one who knows how > to sharpen saws - at least no one I know of. I have tried to sharpen a > couple of saws myself, but I didn't have any luck. My eyes are too old > for that sort of activity. > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) Frank, Odd, I didn't get Jim's message below, but got yours. Must be some type of mail relay problem somewhere... My eyes aren't great, but I use a pair of OptiVisors at 2.5x so I can do it.;-) Anyway, I appreciate that you have other stuff to do Jim, truthfully...we all need to prioritize what it is we want to spend our time on. I just really feel that for the time it takes to sharpen a saw, and the skill required to perform it, is all worth the effort. Nothing like touching a saw up, especially one that has been cutting hardwood. If you use handsaws it seems a good thing to know how to, and to sharpen them. A file only costs about $5. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Thompson" > To: "Alan DuBoff" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:25 PM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:little saws > > > I know how to sharpen my saws, but I have not the patience or the time > > to do it. I simply drop them off at my local sharpener and for less > > than $10 each he sharpens them perfectly. I got better things to do. > > > > I will touch one up now and then, but when they get dull, I send them > > out. Iwould rather spend my time doing something I enjoy. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158661 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-26 01:40:06 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel > http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. I got around to booting Windows to watch some of the stuff there. There was some interesting seminar that Sam Maloof was giving, and showing how he makes his chairs. He even talked about the ways he has cut fingers off.:-/ In between though there was this video for the Router Show. I'm heard of this show before, but have never seen it. This had to be the worst show I've watched in a while. I've heard this is a father and son, but they don't look alike to me. Anyway, they talk for really fast for about 2 minutes and run their routers for about 5 minutes. That seems to go one for the duration of the show, and one nice thing about the video is that you can mute the audio, because most of the time it was: yyyyyeeeeaaaaawwwwwwwwww...bbbbbbbyyyeeeeeeeoooooowwwwwwww, wahhhhhhh, wahhhhhhhh, etc... I found that most annoying. In the end it was cool, they were able to make a chair in about 30 minutes which looked like something you could buy at the BORG for about $25, and the old guy kept praising routers and how a band saw couldn't do this or that...and how you just can't live without a router.;-) OTOH, maybe their chair was for outdoor furniture or something, it certainly wasn't something I'd want inside of my house...and even though it might be better than some of the furniture currently in my house, I've trying to get rid of any of that type of stuff already...I don't need more garbage to haul away...I take that back, their chair could be cut up and the wood used for something else.;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158662 ---- From: Jimlemon@a... Date: 2006-03-25 20:09:32 Subject: Re: The Widow Widows can be a good source of tools and info. Just shows it pays to treat people well, particularly the elderly. I've got my own widow story / gloat to share. Now I swear this is all true-- I'm still reeling! A lady at work, to whom I have shown some small kindness over the years, recently lost her husband. (last year, if I remember right.) Anyway, she tells me "I've got an old lathe that belonged to Chuck if you want it. I think there might be some chisels too. Why don't you come over and take what you can use? (Warning! Off-topic, but too good not to share) I think there's an old planer you can have, too." I figured she was talking about a plane, folks. A common mistake as a quick skim of EBay will show. So we made a date for me to go look things over. To show I should never assume, the first thing I saw walking in the door was, in fact, a 12" Parks planer. After picking up my teeth, I started opening cupboards and pulling out drawers. It quickly became amazing, then almost scary, and finally a bit silly as every drawer contained juicier stuff than the one before. I'd figure, "Well, that must be it. There can't be anything else. The rest must be junk", Then the next drawer would reveal, oh, say a complete set of Buck bros. turning tools? Old ones? I stopped repeatedly to come up for air, check my pulse, and inform my friend, once again, that she was giving away a small fortune in tools. But she wouldn't take any money and said she was happy to see them go to a good home. Now it this fellow probably never knew it, but he was an unsung galoot. Obviously knew and appreciated his tools. When the smoke cleared, I started to make a list of what I had hauled off. The list filled two and a half pages of a spiral-bound notebook. I won't take the band width to copy the complete list (not without some serious begging, anyway) but to hit a few high points, I came away with: A set of Stanley trammel pints, two #71 router planes, a #113 circle plane, #53 and #151 spokeshaves, a large, minty boxwood shave by W. #Johnson, Newark (Anybody?) #5C jack plane, #8 jointer plane, a very nice #4-sized Millers Falls smoother, and, just for giggles, a #3 Shelton (my first). Also a set of new, never used Greenlee socket firmer chisels (Huge! 1", 1-1/2", and 2") the above-mentioned turning tools, 6 assorted crank- necked paring chisels, no less than 12 crank-neck, in-cannel gouges of various makes (saw a Witherby or two) and eighteen, count 'em, eighteen carving tools. Now these are just some highlights. Most are user-grade with a few minty things for variety, but the sheer mass of iron more than makes up for that.I haven't touched on the power tools here, (see, Mom?) except for the lathe (nothing special) and the Parks. Now, ain't that just enough to gag a maggot? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158663 ---- From: "greg" Date: 2006-03-26 07:46:23 Subject: Re: The Widow . > Obviously knew and appreciated his tools. When the smoke cleared, I > started to > make a list of what I had hauled off. The list filled two and a half pages > of a > spiral-bound notebook. You s***!!! My story was plum nearly the same except the guy was a retired cabinet shop owner who owned about every tool I could imagine and it was his neese disposing of it after the aunt passed and I gave her $400 fer it. Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158664 ---- From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" Date: 2006-03-26 08:59:27 Subject: Re: Re: SawNuts Judging by the number of emails I've gotten about these, I have feeling there's a computer somewhere in the bowels of Ace Hardware World Headquarters that's going to be muttering: /WTF is going on here? I'm sittin' here, minding my own business, when in the span of a couple seconds, I get orders from five galoots, demanding saw screws! In any event for the archives, here are the particulars: The screws appear to be 3/16" The outside diameter of the nut shaft is 5/32". When assembled finger tight there's about 3/4" length in the shaft inside the heads. No medallians are included and the screws are chrome or nickel plated. They are just screws and carraige head style nuts, not split nuts. For your further enjoyment, a picture can be found here: http://www.fieldhouses.net/photos/Sawnuts/target0.html Keith In Ballston Lake / ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158665 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-26 10:05:07 Subject: Re: The Widow Jimlemon@a... wrote a gloat: > W. Johnson, Newark > (Anybody? GG + Jim See MJD's latest list: oldtools digest recipients For a nice example. Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158666 ---- From: jerome bias Date: 2006-03-26 10:14:37 Subject: wtb panel raiser I am looking to buy a user panel raiser. I am needing to build a blanket chest in short order and I need a panel raiser that is in fairly good shape, but doesn't need to be collector quality. Thanks, Jerome Bias bias@p... ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158667 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-26 10:31:53 Subject: Re: The Widow > > Jimlemon@a... wrote a gloat: > >> W. Johnson, Newark >> (Anybody? > > > GG + Jim > > See MJD's latest list: > > oldtools digest recipients > > For a nice example. > > Ed Minch Sorry - here is the page: http://mjdtools.com/auction/graphics/a191510.htm Ed minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158668 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-26 09:41:12 Subject: Re: The Widow How about a non-gloat. The widow in this case was my mother-in-law. When her husband died years ago, she had someone come in and haul almost everything in his shop - for scrap! The only things I ended up with were his anvil, an unnamed brace, a hand grinding wheel, and a Stanley No. 141 plow plane - can't complain about that plow. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: ; Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Widow > > . >> Obviously knew and appreciated his tools. When the smoke cleared, I >> started to >> make a list of what I had hauled off. The list filled two and a half >> pages of a >> spiral-bound notebook. > > You s***!!! > My story was plum nearly the same except the guy was a retired cabinet > shop owner > who owned about every tool I could imagine and it was his neese > disposing of it after > the aunt passed and I gave her $400 fer it. > > Greg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158669 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-26 09:48:31 Subject: Unusual Levercap? Galoots, I picked up a No. 5 size levercap (2 inch) a yard sale a while back. I don't know how unusual it is, but I have never seen one like it. The front looks like a typical unmarked levercap. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3746&sessionid- =96ab4bf0f276d59500e8aaf7c3901992 But the back shows the imprint of a Sweethart trademark. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3747&sessionid- =96ab4bf0f276d59500e8aaf7c3901992 Is it unusual or not? Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158670 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-26 10:58:10 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 37 Re: [OldTools] book bargain My apologies to all for the lengthy post. Alan wrote: >> Also interesting to note that the bench joiners made the least amount of money in the U.K., while the carpenters working on building sites were paid higher. Also, as tailed apprentices became available, the shops had the apprentices dimension the lumber/timber for the bench joiners, using tailed apprentices, and in turn the bench joiners would then finish the joinery by hand. << I was apprenticed in 1959 and although there were massive companies like Hamptons in South London employing 100's of joiners and cabinet makers (they fitted out the Royal Yacht Brittania ), most joiners were working in small shops with less than 10 employees. Apart from the boy powered mortice machine, I was not allowed to use machinery until my 3rd. year. Then I was taught the use of a 12" cabinet saw with sliding table, 12" RAS, and 16" combination jointer and thicknesser. Work procedures normally went something like this: A job was measured with pinch rods and a sketch done on a cigarette packet. We did all our own setting out on wood "rods", ( lengths of 1" x 12" that were whitewashed and dressed with a pumice block ). A cutting list was prepared and passed over to whomever was "sawyer" for the day. The dressed pieces were returned and all the marking out was done directly from the full sized setting out. Joints were then cut by hand and mouldings and rebates stuck. All staircases were dadoed by hand and all the handrail easements and turns cut and carved by hand. Drawers had blind dovetails on the fronts and dadoed on the sides for the backs. Everything would be then dry fitted so that tenon shoulders could be scribed ( coped) and the assemblies checked for out of wind ( twist ) and squareness. Also the final dimensions were checked by placing the rods on the assembled pieces and comparing overall sizes. Then came glue up (normally hide glue) and clamping. The next day out came the 041/2 (smoother Jeff) to clean up. For painted surfaces, all sanding was done by hand with 80 grit. For French polishing we got out the cabinet scraper followed by 120 grit and then 220 grit wetting down and re-sanding 2 or 3 times. All sanding was done strictly with the grain and up to the joints, never ever across the joint. All drawers were only sanded on the fronts and the inside before assembly. The sides and top and bottom edges were never sanded because grit from the sand paper embedded in the wood wears out the drawer slides prematurely. Likewise once sanded no wood was planed again because of the grit residue. Our shop also had a paint and polishing shop where all finishing was done by hand. I did 2 3 month terms in there under a very strict painter and a very talented French polisher. Now as an aside some finishing common sense. Paint needs to form a mechanical bond to wood so the surface has to be rough; i.e. 80 grit sanded. The smooth as glass shiny planed surface will cause paint failure. The same applies to French polish and all forms of varnish, but because the finish is transparent the sanding is done to the point where no sanding scratches are visible. To check this the surface has to be viewed from a low angle against the light source from a variety of angles and directions. Now as for hourly pay rates we were always on par with on site workers ( 1st. and 2nd. fixing carpenters ) but they were normally working on a piece work scale as well as their hourly rate so they earned more. Besides the normal joinery such as doors, windows, stairs and panelling, we also did store and bank fixtures, kitchen cabinets, desks and other custom cabinetry in pine, oak, English walnut, Waterloo elm, Honduras and African mahogany The apprentice scale was 15%, 33%, 50%, 75% and 90% of the current tradesman rate for the 5 years. After completion full rate was then paid. At that time virtually all pay rates were more than the Union base rate. Ah the good old days! After finishing my apprenticeship I moved to a bigger shop where there were wood machinists and a "setter out" so all the work was basically assembly. But because of my staircase, handrailing and double hung window skills I was made up to a specialty joiner and had a lot more input into those products. Since crossing the pond I have changed my work habits very little. The main change is using and figuring out cutting lists directly from a tape measure. Definitely quicker but also more prone to mistakes. As far as I know the Mackay book on carpentry is still in print. The replacement Metric version I have is the Fifth edition (in SI Metric units) by W.B. and J.K. Mackay printed in 1978. Longman ISBN 0 582 42541 7 Building Craft Series. This is the companion book to Joinery and deals with the on site 1st. and 2nd. fixings done by British carpenters. It covers such things as roofs and floors, flying and raking shores, brickwork centres and formwork (shoring Jeff) So Alan I think your proposed approach to joinery is definitely a good one and who knows you may eventually decide to become a Neander purist and resort to a rip saw and a woodie jack plane, which is something I resort to more and more. It just adds to my pleasure of working with wood. Good Luck and good chippying! Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158671 ---- From: "Christopher J. Scholz" Date: 2006-03-26 10:26:17 Subject: Re: little saws Scott, So you are saying that the little dovetail saw that I picked up in Zhuhai, China, might actually be pretty decent? http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3749 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3750 As an aside, does anybody know anything about a saw company called 'Hunter' in 'Hamburg Germany'? I paid approx. US$.087 for that saw, how can they stay in business? Chris Hey Roy The small saws are made of German spring steel as a general rule. Same as most expensive saws these days. Same as you'll get if you buy blue spring stock from Mcmaster or MSC. Same you'll get in the expensive hobby shops. As good a spring steel as you can find! You're gonna love them. yours, Scott __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158672 ---- From: "Christopher J. Scholz" Date: 2006-03-26 11:04:57 Subject: Can ordinary planes double as scrapers? Esteemed Galloots, I received an e-mail from JapanWoodworker.com where they state that their Chinese-style planes (and also some H.N.T. Gordon style planes) can double as scraper planes by simply reversion the blade. http://www.- japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=98.105.1155&dep- t_id=12915 I've never seen anybody doing that! What I've seen though, is that some woodworkers re-arranged the wedge to get steeper angle. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3753 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3751 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3752 At first, I thought this craftsman did not quite know what he was doing (he really is a paper maker by trade, not a woodwoker). SWMBA's mother who's faster was a woodworker swears that this is the correct way to arrange the blade---did not convince me neither. But now, after reading the Japan Woodworker writeup, I start wondering... Any commends? Ludo? Thanks, Chris in Atlanta, GA (no affiliation with Japan Woodworker or H.N.T. Gordon) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158673 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-26 11:17:47 Subject: Lightning chisel A while back there was a listing on a local bulletin board for a guy with a box of old tools for sale for $50. I told him I would be interested in coming over to look at it and he was nice enough to drive over with them. Some interesting stuff in there, including a good chisel and gouge or four - but mostly junk (cold chisels, claw hammers and such). I told him they were not worth that much to me but I encouraged him to try to find someone who would give him his asking price. About a week ago I saw them relisted for $30 and a couple of days ago for "make me an offer." I figured there was enough stuff in there to be worth $20 and he was happy to take it. The first thing out of the box was a fairly massive socket chisel, about 7/8 inch and marked "LIGHTNING EXTRA No 1". An archive search for lightning mostly turns up threads with "You would have a better chance of being struck by lightning than finding..." and such. So, does anyone have any info on who made this? The bad news is that someone probably used this chisel as a jack handle or some other prying implement and the business end has an oddly sine-wave- like appearance. Ah, well. It could be cut off or perhaps forged back into some semblance of flatness, then re-heat treated. It's got about a foot of metal ahead of the socket and would still be entertainingly useful even if it was a lot shorter. There were a couple of good buck brothers chisels (and one gouge) and a Pexto (actually with the PS & W mark) so I'm going to go through them and see what I might want to keep. Probably I'll be listing some of this stuff for sale once I'm finished with that evaluation; I expect a lot of duplicates since there's not exactly a chisel shortage around here. The rest will go to PAST as a donation for some future tool auction. I'm keeping the fret saw (old and funky, but I didn't have one) and maybe the Disston compass saw. Which reminds me, I was wearing my galoot sweatshirt (type 2, Dennis) at a local sandwich shop in preparation for teaching a hand plane class last Sunday at the local Woodcraft. Some guy walked up to me and said he had a bunch of tools he was going to haul to the dump and wondered if I'd like to look at them. Gotta give him a call today. It pays to dress appropriately. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158674 ---- From: "Christopher J. Scholz" Date: 2006-03-26 11:28:42 Subject: Type Study of Planes and Frame Saws Esteemed Galoots, there seems to be a lot of confusion about Chinese planes, Hong Kong planes, Taiwan planes, etc. I posted a few type studies of basic plane shapes, cutter shapes and molding profiles. Also added a type study of frame saws. Plane bodies: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3754 Plane cutters (cross section through plane body, sole is on top): http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3755 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3756 basic moldings: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3757 Frame saws: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3715 Source: Picutres copied from a Ph.D. thesis in civil engineering, send be an e-mail for the exact reference. Chris in Atlanta, GA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158675 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-26 13:32:37 Subject: Re: Can ordinary planes double as scrapers? Chris, I have two Gordon smoothing planes and one small Chinese plane that double as scrapers by reversing the iron. It works. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher J. Scholz" To: Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 1:04 PM Subject: [OldTools] Can ordinary planes double as scrapers? > Esteemed Galloots, > > I received an e-mail from JapanWoodworker.com where they state that > their Chinese-style planes (and also some H.N.T. Gordon style planes) > can double as scraper planes by simply reversion the blade. http://ww- > w.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=98.105.1155- > &dept_id > > I've never seen anybody doing that! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158676 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-26 11:46:15 Subject: Re: Bench joiners, site workers, et al On Sunday 26 March 2006 07:58 am, Peter Hyde wrote: > My apologies to all for the lengthy post. I hope this is not OT, seems appropriate to me. > I was apprenticed in 1959 I was only 1 year old... > Apart from the boy > powered mortice machine, I was not allowed to use machinery until my > 3rd. year. Good way to learn how to be a real woodworker, IMO. Even if one does use a machine, knowing the basics and being able to apply when needed is very important. > The dressed pieces were returned and all the marking out was > done directly from the full sized setting out. Joints were then cut by > hand and mouldings and rebates stuck. All staircases were dadoed by > hand and all the handrail easements and turns cut and carved by hand. > Drawers had blind dovetails on the fronts and dadoed on the sides for > the backs. Everything would be then dry fitted so that tenon shoulders > could be scribed ( coped) and the assemblies checked for out of wind ( > twist ) and squareness. Also the final dimensions were checked by > placing the rods on the assembled pieces and comparing overall sizes. This is exactly the part of woodworking I am most interested in, and how I can get to this point that I can do this, even if it means to use a tailed apprentice to get the timber/lumber to that point. This is the solitude I seek from woodworking. > Our shop also had a paint and polishing shop where all finishing was > done by hand. I did 2 3 month terms in there under a very strict > painter and a very talented French polisher. invaluable lessons in finishing I suspect, and something more folks would be good to know. I just ordered some shellac flakes last week, and will be trying to teach myself some of this. KenG gave a great talk on this at the last BAG-A-THON. I just love the luster that a shellac finish gives. > Now as for hourly pay rates we were always on par with on site workers > ( 1st. and 2nd. fixing carpenters ) but they were normally working on a > piece work scale as well as their hourly rate so they earned more. Ah, that's interesting. I was asking him why it was that the joiners were paid less, I would think that should pay more. It's all supply and demand, and maybe that's the real reason a carpenter would be paid more (however that is determined). > After finishing my apprenticeship I moved to a bigger shop where there > were wood machinists and a "setter out" so all the work was basically > assembly. But because of my staircase, handrailing and double hung > window skills I was made up to a specialty joiner and had a lot more > input into those products. It seems that doors, windows, and stairs were a skill in demand. The McKay book is only those for the most part. There is pictures of some machinery in there, showing a band saw and such. Very neat little book, IMO. > Since crossing the pond I have changed my work habits very little. The > main change is using and figuring out cutting lists directly from a > tape measure. Definitely quicker but also more prone to mistakes. Good for you! This all reminds me of Japan. In recent years Japan has become more westernized. I often tell people that there's a lot that America (western world) can learn from Japan, much of which we had at one point. Unfortunately the truth is that Japan has continued to learn our bad habits of the western world. Woodworking is very much that way, and the western world has adopted power tools to be able to accomplish the same task in a shorter amount of time. The old school ways will prevail for some, certainly for me. I think my methodology is a way of viewing the modern shop and how we integrate power and/or hand tools. Even if I sacrifice the use of a power tool, I still want to have the integrity of doing all joinery by hand. > So Alan I think your proposed approach to joinery is definitely a good > one and who knows you may eventually decide to become a Neander purist > and resort to a rip saw and a woodie jack plane, which is something I > resort to more and more. It just adds to my pleasure of working with > wood. Yes, hopefully this will work for me. There will be some stuff I do with only hand tools and not ever touch a power tool in the process. But for large panels and pieces that need to be cut/laminated together, I will most likely dimension with some tailed apprentices and then do all the rest by hand. I hate to think I'm a second class citizen because I use a tailed apprentice to dimension lumber, but if some of the purists would like to think of me in that way, I'm ok with it. I'm certainly not trying to cause friction on what a galoot should or shouldn't do, it's all up to ourselves afterall, and how we spend the time we are able to devote to woodworking and/or hand tool usage. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158677 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-26 14:27:48 Subject: Re: Can ordinary planes double as scrapers? On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:04:57 -0800 (PST) "Christopher J. Scholz" wrote: > SWMBA's mother who's faster Chris: SWMBA? She Who Must Be... Adored? Rob in Peoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158678 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-26 14:31:11 Subject: How To Make Carpentry Tools LOML has been gone visiting her sister this week-end--sort of a girl get-together thing and I have spent the week-end trying to put order into my bookshelves. What an unbelievable chore! But, it has been rewarding as well. I have come across books that I had forgotten that I even had. One of these stands out as a recommendation to the assembled members of Galootdom. The title is How To Make Carpentry Tools, An Illustrated Manual by Aaron Moore and Musaemura Sithole ISBN I 85339 406 8 My copy is a 1997 second edition published by Intermediate Technologies Publications of London in Collaboration with IT-Zimbabwe. The book has many plans for making carpentry tools including several planes, gauges, clamps, scratch stock, a bow saw etc. I am quite attracted to alternative and intermediate technology which I think is definitely in the realm of Galoot pursuits even if it is less glamourous than a fine old tool. I have pedaled and treadled a number of creations, but have yet to undertake making a plane. This book jogged my memory and I have it on my to-do list. Paul in Normal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158679 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-26 15:35:39 Subject: The Flea Market The big outdoor flea market opened today with some sun and some wind, but I must say it felt good to be out. Ran into our own Walt Q and he told me of missing 2 Stanley 4 1/2's. It was also good to see him again. Not too many vendors, but I did manage to buy a Stanley 9 1/2 new in original box and a good #78 missing the fence and rod and depth stop. I do have a fence and rod and ebay will surely provide the depth stop and screw. All things considered it was a great day. Oh, I almost forgot to tell you about the mint Stanley #1166 four square tape I got at a local auction last week. Had to pay dearly for it though. I really need a ghost bidder. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158680 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-26 16:54:19 Subject: Caliper question GG I have and have seen machinist's calipers that have an odd feature I can't figure out. These are calipers that look like the "lady leg" calipers but have just regular old legs on them. These calipers (all sizes) have a large round disc for a nut at the hinge, but then on one leg (or both) they have another smaller nut that is at the end of small leg that rides on top of the primary leg. Sometimes the smaller leg has a slot in it that lets you separate the big leg from the smaller leg - maybe to have 2 settings at your disposal. The non-slotted leg ooks like it is supposed to maybe give a fine adjustment, but I can't make sense of it. Am I just stupid or is there something going on here, or both Ed Minch Steaming a chair bow this afternoon - just heading down to give it a shot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158681 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-26 17:05:10 Subject: A high tech scary sharp system I went to the Woodworking Show in Chantilly VA yesterday afternoon and was really impressed by the Jooltool. It was demo'd by an attractive young lady (I was concerned that the show was taking the auto show route). Talking to her disclosed that she was jeweler and a turner -- she'd developed the tool. Conceptually, it's a motorized scary sharp system: A small electric motor is mounted vertically with a spiral screw bit atop the shaft and a variable speed knob in the back. There are small disks to which you attach PSA backed sheets of micro abrasive on the BOTTOM of the disk. The disks and abrasive have slots in them to allow you to see the surface that you are sharpening. What with the small slots, it's about like doing it with sun glasses on; darker but clear and visible. The young lady picked up a chisel, colored the edge with a marker so that she could see it more clearly as she sharpened, turned the tool on, slid the chisel under the disk, raised it to the abrasive and held it there, tweaked the angle a bit, and pulled it out. She quickly changed disks to a finer grit and did it all over again. She then put in an abrasive free disk, charged it with green compound, and polished the result. In less than a min. she had a sharp edge with a mirror polish. She then demonstrated with a new Marples chisel on which she also ground the back with the disk -- yeah, I cringed. But it cut so finely that there running my fingertip and nail over the back detected no lip at the edge of where she'd polished. (Even so, I doubt that I'd ever do that.) She went through a number of different blades ranging from a bench plane blade, to a large turning gouge, down to a chip-carving knife. The tool looked nice, but she was working with tools that she'd selected and already sharpened, so I went back today with a 1/4 inch, carving, V parting tool from my junk box. I'd gotten it at an estate sale as part of box lot. It had been grossly mis-sharpened such that one edge was a full 1/8 inch beyond the other. I didn't need it, so I'd never bothered to redo the edge. I handed it to her and got a sad look -- "Oh my, what did you do to this?" In well less than 3 min she'd reground and reshaped the edge, sharpened it, polished both the bevel and the inner surface to a mirror finish, and handed it back to me with a small board. It cut very nicely. One of the guys who were demonstrating spindle turning walked up with a gouge that he'd worn truly dull. She talked him through the system; although it took him two tries, in only several min. he left with a drop dead edge. The down side: With an extra set of disks (so that you could have each of the grits mounted) it ran $300. But, that's still within the range of a sharpening kit (I've got that much tied up in mine). I'm set up with what I need, but if I take up carving or turning I'd look at it even now. If I were starting over, it would be my starting system. She has web site at Jooltool.com. No relation etc. Larry Root ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158682 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-26 17:30:57 Subject: The Widow and the Turkey Fellow Rustaholics, I cooked up a big meal today for the widow woman next door, turkey, mashed potatoes, turnip, roast parsnips and carrots, peas and scratch gravy. SWMBO delivered it and my middle GIT Victoria stayed to eat with the widow. SWMBO returned with "Audel's Carpenters and Builders Guide, Volumes 2 - 4, the match to volume 1 I got the other day. Maybe I should put a sign out front, "Will cook for tools." Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158683 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-26 17:48:39 Subject: Re: Caliper question That lets you open the legs to get around some obstruction,then close them back to size again, either to measure with a scale or to transfer the measurement to another object. For inside calipers, it lets you collapse the legs to get them out of the hollow, then open them again. Hope I read your post right, and am not making an ijit of myself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158684 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-26 18:59:15 Subject: Saw sharpening Jim I imagine that a lot of us would use your method if there was a sharpener that was any good within a hundred miles. I've tried to find one and there isn't one to my knowledge in central Indiana. You add the price of postage and waiting two or three weeks (or more) and its just easier to learn to do if yourself. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158685 ---- From: "John Pesut" Date: 2006-03-26 20:46:12 Subject: Free (almost) to a good (well, G.G.'s- I came into the posession of hundreds of canvas bank bags. It seems the Feds don't like to get money in these any more. They prefer clear poly bags. Another fine old tradition bites the dust. (Next time CSI Miami shows an armoured car heist with canvas bank bags strewn all around just let out a great big collective Galoot Harumph.) Anyway, before I start selling these I thought I would offer them to the list. Terms: Tell me how many you need and your address. If you are known to me, or have a bio posted I will send the afore mentioned quantity to you and trust completely that you will return my postage expense post haste ( I will even let you do it into my PayPal account - see mama don't know about that gig!). Lest you be inclined to send additional compensation, I would only ask that next Christmas you drop a little extra into the Salvation Army kettle. That's how I came upon these bags BTW. Seems the banks don't want the nickles and dimes from the kettles packed into them either. See an sample of what they are here... http://home.att.net/~the_tinker/oldtools/old_bags.jpg ...and think about what you could store in these babies. Later, John (in cold, but dusk fell after 7PM so it looks real promising , N.E. Oh-HI-ya) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158686 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-26 21:47:21 Subject: RE: A high tech scary sharp system Anie or Amie (I forget) did a great job a the woodworking show in Charolotte as well. Jim Watson (the bird carver) ended up leaving with one. Woodcraft has picked it up, so you may see it in their stores in the next few weeks. I am unaffiliated with the product, don't even own one. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > L.A. Root > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:05 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] A high tech scary sharp system > > I went to the Woodworking Show in Chantilly VA yesterday > afternoon and was really impressed by the Jooltool. It was > demo'd by an attractive young lady (I was concerned that the > show was taking the auto show route). Talking to her > disclosed that she was jeweler and a turner -- she'd > developed the tool. > > Conceptually, it's a motorized scary sharp system: A small > electric motor is mounted vertically with a spiral screw bit > atop the shaft and a variable speed knob in the back. There > are small disks to which you attach PSA backed sheets of > micro abrasive on the BOTTOM of the disk. > The disks and abrasive have slots in them to allow you to see > the surface that you are sharpening. What with the small > slots, it's about like doing it with sun glasses on; darker > but clear and visible. > > The young lady picked up a chisel, colored the edge with a > marker so that she could see it more clearly as she > sharpened, turned the tool on, slid the chisel under the > disk, raised it to the abrasive and held it there, tweaked > the angle a bit, and pulled it out. She quickly changed > disks to a finer grit and did it all over again. She then > put in an abrasive free disk, charged it with green compound, > and polished the result. In less than a min. she had a sharp > edge with a mirror polish. > She then demonstrated with a new Marples chisel on which she > also ground the back with the disk -- yeah, I cringed. But > it cut so finely that there running my fingertip and nail > over the back detected no lip at the edge of where she'd > polished. (Even so, I doubt that I'd ever do > that.) She went through a number of different blades ranging > from a bench plane blade, to a large turning gouge, down to a > chip-carving knife. > > The tool looked nice, but she was working with tools that > she'd selected and already sharpened, so I went back today > with a 1/4 inch, carving, V parting tool from my junk box. > I'd gotten it at an estate sale as part of box lot. It had > been grossly mis-sharpened such that one edge was a full 1/8 > inch beyond the other. I didn't need it, so I'd never > bothered to redo the edge. I handed it to her and got a sad > look -- "Oh my, what did you do to this?" In well less than > 3 min she'd reground and reshaped the edge, sharpened it, > polished both the bevel and the inner surface to a mirror > finish, and handed it back to me with a small board. It cut > very nicely. One of the guys who were demonstrating spindle > turning walked up with a gouge that he'd worn truly dull. > She talked him through the system; although it took him two > tries, in only several min. he left with a drop dead edge. > > The down side: With an extra set of disks (so that you could > have each of the grits mounted) it ran $300. But, that's > still within the range of a sharpening kit (I've got that > much tied up in mine). I'm set up with what I need, but if I > take up carving or turning I'd look at it even now. If I > were starting over, it would be my starting system. > > She has web site at Jooltool.com. > > No relation etc. > > Larry Root > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158687 ---- From: "travis anderson-bond" Date: 2006-03-27 12:55:32 Subject: Workbenches and lumber salvaging GG's, Just to conserve bandwidth, I wrote my comments in my blog, rather than in an e-mail. Two comments on salvaging wood and potential workbenches. Some old saying about ''silk purses'' and ''sow's ears'' comes to mind... ;) The blog entries include purty photos: Part I -- http://gyegreene.blogspot.com/2006/03/tale-of-three-workbenches.html Part II -- http://gyegreene.blogspot.com/2006/03/sideboardworkbench-update.html --Travis (in overcast Brisbane, AU) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158688 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-03-26 22:10:34 Subject: fs March 2006 Standard Terms. When item is received, notice the postage on the package and add that to the price paid. Orders will be honored in the sequence that they are logged in. Items preceded by a * are leftovers from the last list, mostly at reduced prices. *Large combination tool handle has a brass ball-pein hammer head screwed on the end and 7 well-made bits in the wooden handle. Overall length with hammer 6 1/2". No name but probably German. $6. *Draftsman's bow compass for small circles (up to 1" diameter), replaceable pen and pencil tips. K&E 914 in original box. $5. *Draftsman's pocket kit "ALVIN/GERMANY/ 569". It has a compass/dividers with 4" legs and a 3" extension leg. There are pen, pencil, and divider tips. A ruling pen can be made by inserting the pen tip in the improvised wooden handle. All contained in a plastic pocket case. $8. 12" level and plumb, boxwood with brass vial covers and corners. There are four scales, divided, respectively. into 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", and 1 " as well as two, normal 1 foot rulers with divisions, repectively of 1/8 and 1/16". "SMALLWOOD MAKERS/ BIRM./ WARRANTED". Wood is dirty but not damaged. I have replaced one of the brass corners that was missing. Smallwood was a major manufacturer of rules and levels in late 19th century Birmingham. $30. Backsaw, 18" blade, 4 1/4" below the back. "HENRY DISSTON & SONS/CAST STEEL WARRANTED/PHILADA" stamped on the back. There is a complicated etching on the blade, but too faint to see clearly. Some careful polishing might bring it out. Teeth are sharp and ready for use. Handle is from another Disston saw and has plugged holes that don't match holes in the blade. I wouldn't mind keeping this one if I can't sell it for $15. Rip saw 28", 5ppi, Disston D8 with thumbhole handle. Blade could use polishing; teeth are sharp enough to use as-is. Handle is undamaged but dirty. $15. Table saw, 14" blade tapering from 2" to 3/4", 9ppi. Blade and handle are dirty but undamaged. Teeth are pretty good, but a touch with the file would help. "FULTON TOOL CO./CHICAGO." Fulton was an independent maker before being acquired by Sears early in the 20th Century. For awhile Sears advertised Fulton saws as their best. $15. Table saw, 13 1/2" blade tapering from 2" to 3/4 ", 6ppi. Undamaged "fishtail" handle is attractive and comfortable. "Wheeler, Madden, & Bakewell" (Middletown, N.Y. 1853-1860). It's a neat, little saw in fine condition for its 150 years ---- a pruning saw? $18 Breast drill, two speeds chosen by moving the drive wheel from one bearing to the other. Chuck takes twist drills up to 1/2" diameter. Goodell-Pratt No. 177, a very smooth-running tool. $16. 5" bit brace, No. 10, "HOLT MFG. CO., SPRINGFIELD, MA". Pad and crank grip are both pretty cocobolo. Chuck has two openings, one for square-shanked auger bits and one for round-shanked twist drills. Most of the nickel plating is gone, but I have often thought that if you don't need a ratchet, this is the best brace made. Prices I have seen from dealers range from $50-85, but this one is $35. Incomplee set of 1/4" letter stamps in a wooden block.. Missing are B, P, Y, and Z. $6. 3/8" dado plane, "UNION FACTORY/WARRANTED/NO. 139". Wood is all good except for some screw holes, perhaps made for attaching a fence (but I don't know why that would be useful on a dado plane). The nicker iron is a replacement. $17. Tongue and groove pair, "MORRILL/BANGOR". Stamped 8/8 to show that they are intended for use on 1" boards, but by being consistent with the fence side, you can use them on 7/8 or 3/4" boards. The wedge finial has been broken off the tongue plane, and there is a tight crack in the groover's wedge; but both can be used as-is. $25. Deep round plane, 1" size. It cuts a semicircle with 1/2" radius rather than the more common 1/6 of a circle. I think that there is a maker's mark but too faint to read. Owner's initials are clear, "H.S.P." $8. Iron smoothing plane, Stanley No. 4, Type 13. Cocobolo tote and knob are undamaged. A little time spent on basic cleaning will result in a pretty nice plane from a good vintage year. The only peculiarity is that the blade is by Sargent, but that can be changed. $10. 1/2" socket-handled, bevel-edged chisel, 3 1/2" below the socket. It appears to be a high grade chisel with a good, leather-tipped, ash handle, but I can't make out any maker's stamp. $6. 1/2" carving gouge, 2" below the tang, good handle of wood that I don't identify. On the convex side is stamped "CAST STEEL." On the concave side there are two lines of letters with 7 letters in each line, but I can't read them. It's a nice, little tool that I won't mind keeping if it doesn't sell for $5. Publications from The Museum of Ornamental Turning. This museum was founded in 1987 but closed down in 1990 after publishing 8 issues of a Newsletter. Here are all those issues in a nice binder along with some other related documents. Anyone interested in ornamental turning will enjoy this material. $12. This month's giveaway is either a small punch or cold chisel. If you don't want it, I won't send it--- let me know. Trevor Robinson 65 Pine St. Amherst MA 01002 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158689 ---- From: jkrau@h... Date: 2006-03-26 22:34:28 Subject: another reference book Hi, I scout the used booksellers, and thrifts. Recently I found a nice little hardback book, Farm Shop Work, by Brace and Mayne. It is an instructional book for: pupils taking agriculture in elemntary and secondary schools/ in the practical arts work of schools in rural communities, 1915. Good basic woodworking skills and tool use, and several chapters on basic blacksmithing. One of the best 49cent buys I've gotten recently. However I did spend 3 hours at an auction today, came away with an unused Workmate, all steel, with heavy laminated top boards, I'll gloat and tell, it was mine for $10. John in Nebraska Tired of unwanted messages? Try E-Shield from HunTel.net. www.HunTel.net/home/services/eshield/about.htm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158690 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-26 20:44:10 Subject: Cabin Table (was Pine Blotch) With the end of the weekend, I thought that it was time for an update, some photos, and to say thank you. Short Version... Did some painting, shellacking, and staining of the table this weekend. See photos on Galoot Image Central. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=339 Longer Version... I would like to thank everyone for their on-list and private emails with suggestions and remedies for my pine blotch phobia. I think that now after completing a few additional test boards, none of which were completely satisfactory, that I’ve decided on a course of action that involves some grounding in fact and some just winging it. To make this longer version even longer, let me start from the beginning on the table. As I said before, the table in question is 3' x 7'6", has a companion bench, and is made of ponderosa pine. My father-in-law built the set, with the help of a neighbor in 1968, in a decidedly gothic or folk-art style. One nice thing is that Dad & neighbor built the table in a Galoot manor using only dowels and glue to hold everything together. Many meals were eaten, and then table was stored in the garage for 20+ years and used and abused as any other surface in a garage would be. With that out of the way, I can add new information. As you can see from the photos, the table is supported by two panel style pedestals, one of which was cracked through and was loose – in fact it came apart when I tried to straighten it. Also, the table was about 1 1/2" too low, but the bench was about standard height, if not a bit high. So, I needed to solve these two problems, which I did by installing a though-tenon stretcher between the pedestals and cobbling on sled style feet to the bottom of the existing pedestals. All of this you can see in the photos. Before I get back to the finish, let me tell you why I'm resurrecting this table. My wife and I are building a cabin in the Ouachita Mountains in Oklahoma and we need a dining table. This will not be a family-only cabin, but will be a rental cabin, so this table that has had a rough life, may still have a few hard years left and it needs a durable finish. Back to The Pine Blotch and the quest for a medium-to dark-brown finish to match the SWMBO’s chairs. Here’s the course of action that I’ve decided to follow. So far I’ve applied 2-coats of garnet shellac and one coat of General Finishes Nutmeg Brown gel stain. I plan to apply three coats of gel stain, with the flavor of the last one being determined by what I think it needs at the time (most likely darker). After that, since I don’t trust my brushing abilities over such a large surface, I’m going with General Finishes Arm-R-Seal as the top coat since it can be wiped on and I have had good experiences with it in the past. Also, since I’ll be applying 6-8 coats of this, I can use some of these coats as toners to tweak the final color by tinting the topcoat with TransTint dyes. End of the update. I’ll be working on the finish as the week goes on and I’ll post more photos - and let you know how it goes - good or bad. If anyone has any comments, I'd be happy to hear them. Steve in Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158691 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-27 08:20:09 Subject: RE: A high tech scary sharp system : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of L.A. Root : Sent: 26 March 2006 23:05 : To: oldtools@r... : Subject: [OldTools] A high tech scary sharp system : : : Conceptually, it's a motorized scary sharp system: A small electric : motor is mounted vertically with a spiral screw bit atop the shaft and a : variable speed knob in the back. There are small disks to which you : attach PSA backed sheets of micro abrasive on the BOTTOM of the disk. : The disks and abrasive have slots in them to allow you to see the : surface that you are sharpening. What with the small slots, it's about : like doing it with sun glasses on; darker but clear and visible. I fear that, in principle, this is not the 'Absolute Innovation' that the young lady believes. Sadly, I can't find the name given to the system, derived from the name of another inventor. This has been discussed previously on these pages, or just possibly in rec.woodworking. I've repeated this with a sanding disk, perforated to correspond with the slots on a faceplate mounted on a B & D drill. Although viewing from the back of the disk was a little inconvenient, it was useful to be able to see what was happening. Obviating the need to withdraw the tool for inspection of the progress achieved, I reckon it could be quite easy to overheat it. It could be easier to maintain a constant grinding/sharpening angle, however. Yes, List Mums! I'm sure you could repeat this with one of those horizontally mounted foot-operated grinders. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158692 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-27 09:36:54 Subject: big plane Dear Galoots I have posted pictures of Japanese big planes (with one original 5 blades plane) at: http://okanna.blogspot.com/ This planes are huge, they perform well on a particular type of wood (here it is Japanese cedar) but I'm not sure their range of excellence is large. They do not have subblade (chip breaker) so the wood really have to be friendly. By the way, does anybody knows about steel export from the UK to Japan, during the begining of the 1900s? Ludo, Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158693 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-27 10:14:08 Subject: Re: Only a Galoot Steve Lineback wrote: > I was working on a project yesterday and when I was cleaning up I > realized that I had been using five braces , two size drills, two > Phillips drivers and a countersink. It hit me that a lot of people > would think it odd to own five braces. Its so much easier and QUIETER > doing it that way and no extension cord or burned bits. Funny but I > know several people who own more than five levtric drills and think > nothing of it. Amen, Brother! http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_i- d=108060#message BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158694 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-27 12:01:32 Subject: Preston #1393S information sought At the tail gating of the latest Tool Shop auction http://www.antiquetools.co.uk/auction.html I was lucky enough to acquire "some of" the smallest Preston beading/reeding tool, the #1393S. I only have the main casting and the fence. I am missing the blades, the blade clamping piece, and the retaining screw for the clamping piece. Can anyone who owns a whole one please tell me the size (outside diameter) and pitch of the screw? I'd guessed at 3/16 whitworth, but this bolt won't even go through the (unthreaded) hole in the casting. The only Whitworth below 3/16" is 1/8", which would be very small, so I'm guessing it's an oddball; since it's the UK it may be a "BA" size. This would make the pitch sorta' metric. In addition, I'd like to know the thickness of the original blades if possible. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158695 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-27 19:31:55 Subject: Re: book, bargain - appolgies for long post Peter Hyde wrote in part: My apologies to all for the lengthy post. And: I was apprenticed in 1959 and although there were massive companies like Hamptons in South London employing 100's of joiners and cabinet makers (they fitted out the Royal Yacht Brittania ), most joiners were working in small shops with less than 10 employees. Apart from the boy powered mortice machine, I was not allowed to use machinery until my 3rd. year................ PeterH writes: I feel sure that no-one amongst the porch dwellers would deny you the bandwith for your great blow by blow postage stamp of part of your joiner's life. This would be a great article to have on your website for others to find. I will certainly re-read it a couple of times, and, if it does become available on your website, will call past now and then to see if the chronicle has been expanded. Thank you for the picture painted. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158696 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-27 22:07:48 Subject: Re: The Widow and the Turkey Alan Perreault wrote: > Fellow Rustaholics, > > I cooked up a big meal today for the widow woman next door, turkey, > mashed potatoes, turnip, roast parsnips and carrots, peas and scratch > gravy. SWMBO delivered it and my middle GIT Victoria stayed to eat > with the widow. SWMBO returned with "Audel's Carpenters and Builders > Guide, Volumes 2 - 4, the match to volume 1 I got the other day. Hmm....... Really nice manipulation of a widow!!!!! Think I am out of here..................... If someone would be so kind as to disconnect me!!!!!!!!!! Bye all ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158697 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-27 08:24:36 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel Alan said.... In between though there was this video for the Router Show. I'm heard of this show before, but have never seen it. This had to be the worst show I've watched in a while. I've heard this is a father and son, but they don't look alike to me. Anyway, they talk for really fast for about 2 minutes and run their routers for about 5 minutes. That seems to go one for the duration of the show, ---------------- I forget how I know this, but I think their act comes from their being on the WoodWorking Show circuit. When you know that, the show is a little easier to understand, if not stomach. Tom Ellis Dayton OH ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158698 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-27 08:44:58 Subject: RE: raised bed gardens one more time.... Hi Micheal, I'd be worried that a 1x would bow out with the pressure from the soil. I'm building a foot deep. How deep were yours, and what was the longest span? Thanks -_JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158699 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-27 06:00:43 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system L.A. Root wrote: > was really impressed by the Jooltool. > Conceptually, it's a motorized scary sharp system: A small electric > motor is mounted vertically with a spiral screw bit atop the shaft and > a variable speed knob in the back. There are small disks to which you > attach PSA backed sheets of micro abrasive on the BOTTOM of the disk. > The disks and abrasive have slots in them to allow you to see the > surface that you are sharpening. What with the small slots, it's > about like doing it with sun glasses on; darker but clear and visible. Sounds like the Lee Valley and Lap Sharp systems, except you're working on the BOTTOM of the disk. Interesting concept -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158700 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-27 08:06:54 Subject: Re: Steel from the Andrews company from Sheffield Ludo Angot wrote: >I am looking for any information about the Andrews >company from Sheffield. >Their steel has been exported to Japan during the 19th >century and is still in use now. But it is becoming a >scarce resource. > >I would like to know what type of steel has been >exported to Japan, when exactly and for what purpose, >what price... John Henry Andrew was listed as a saw maker &c. as a principle of Richard Groves & Sons as late as 1862. There is currently a gap in my data, but, by 1878, the firm of John Henry Andrew & Co. was making steel (as well as undertaking rolling, tilting and forging) and files at the Toledo Steel Works, Neepsend Lane. By 1881, they were also operating at 72 Effingham Road. Sometime after 1895, and by 1899, they became a Limited firm. By 1895 they were advertising having received medals at the 1878 Paris exhibition, the Edinburgh exhibition of 1886, the Adelaide exhibition of 1887, the Melbourne exhibition of 1888-9, and the Kimberley exhibition of 1892. Their registered trade mark was a raised hand holding a scimitar inscribed with the word "TOLEDO." Among the steels listed, in the 1895 advertisement, were: "Best Cast Steel for Turning and Planing Tools, Taps, Dies, Shear Blades, Chisels, Drills, Circular Cutters, Mill Picks, Boiler Snaps, &c. "Cast Steel for Wire Ropes, Springs, &c. "Best Cast Steel Sheets for every kind of Saws, Pens, Springs, Chaff Knives, &c. "Best Warranted Single and Double Shear Steel, also Welding and Blister Steel. "Warranted Cast Steel for Cotton, Flax and Worsted Spindles and Flyers. "Special Octagon Mining Steel. "Warranted Cast Steel for Hammers, Miners' Borers and Drills, Files, &c., &c. "Special Cast Steel For Projectiles. For Shot and Shell for Heavy Ordnance and Machine Guns. For Sword Blades and Rifle Barrels." The 1905 advertisement added: "Special Steel for Motor Springs. "Special High-grade Toledo 'Toreador' Air-Hardening Tool Steel, For Quick Speeds and Heavy Cuts." The firm continued in business until, at least, 1915. I know this doesn't really answer your questions, but hope it gives you a little to start with. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158701 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-27 06:32:14 Subject: Re: big plane On Mar 26, 2006, at 11:36 PM, Ludo Angot wrote: > Dear Galoots > > I have posted pictures of Japanese big planes (with > one original 5 blades plane) at: > > http://okanna.blogspot.com/ > > This planes are huge, they perform well on a > particular type of wood (here it is Japanese cedar) > but I'm not sure their range of excellence is large. > They do not have subblade (chip breaker) so the wood > really have to be friendly. Whatever the wood, those are BIG honkin' shavings coming off. They look to be 8" wide and continuous. You could make see-through drapes out of that stuff. Amazing, Ludo! Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158702 ---- From: "S or J" Date: 2006-03-27 09:53:54 Subject: RE: raised bed gardens one more time.... Hi James, I have been through your search as to finding a reasonably priced, non-toxic solution to wood sides for raised beds. The first time I used standard lumberyard untreated fir 2X10s to make a couple of 4 ft by 10 ft beds. The planks were sitting on rubber lawn edging flat on the surrounding ground, not buried. (Lengths of rubber lawn edging were nailed to the ground side.) The corners were butt jointed and held with spiral galvanized nails. After a few years the wood was still in good shape but the corner joints were getting loose (with wet earth constant pressure, and freeze-thaw cycles over the winters). Before the corners got worse, I bought some galvanized sheet metal mending plates from the hardware store. These are about 7" by 3" and full of nailing holes. (Any adequate dimension would work.) I first tightened the existing joints. Then one metal plate was bent, wrapped, and nailed around the outside of each corner. (For butt joints, don't arbitrarily bend the mending plate in half. Bend it so it has good overlap on both boards.) The beds lasted 12 years before the boards needed replacement. The wood was rotted mainly at the corners where nailing had allowed water to more easily enter the wood. Another problem in the later years had been the bowing outwards of the long side boards. Despite all that, they had given long, relatively inexpensive service. The replacement beds were constructed of the same fir 2X10s. Again, rubber lawn edging was nailed to the ground contact edges. (It is nailed so that the excess is to the outside of the bed and serves as a mower strip around the outside of the beds.) This time two mending plates were used at each corner on the outside (one high, one low at the joint). The inside of each corner was backed with a piece of 2X4 so that the main long nails had something to grab inside past the outer boards. All nails were galvanized spiral. To solve the bowing problem in advance, a path of inexpensive thin 18" square patio stones fits tightly between the beds. The outside of each bed has a stake midway on the long side to contain expansion. These new beds have survived three winters so far with no problems, and I fully expect this untreated lumber to last longer than the previous 12 year record. As Bill mentioned, keep an eye out for termites in southern gardens (and similar carpenter ants in northern gardens). Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada James DuPrie wrote: > If I can't find something reasonable priced, I'm going to have > to go with plain old dimension 2x6, and plan to replace > them a few at a time..... Bill Taggart wrote: > I figure that even though it's just plain ol' pine, it will still take > several years to really rot out - they show no real signs yet, > and have been in the ground coming up on two years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158703 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-27 08:18:36 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system The Jooltool video has been playing on the new Woodworking Channel website. I saw their booth at "The Woodworking Show" in Arlington, TX a few months back, but they were not demonstrating at the time. I looked at it but I went away thinking that it was some type of upside-down router/shaper/thingy with an appetite for fingers. I watched the video the other day and it suddenly made a lot more sense. It would have been interesting to have seen it demonstrated in person. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158704 ---- From: "Jon Hammer" Date: 2006-03-27 17:52:02 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system After hiding under the porch for a while, I've decided to come out for some spring air: Regarding the JoolTool sharpener- The only problem I'd have with this high tech approach is that it doesn't give any way to take the wire edge off of an outcannel gouge, and no provision (that I can think of) is given for any incannel gouge maintenance. JoolTool never mentions or demonstrate any sharpening of any plane irons, either. Only narrow edged tools are demonstrated. Seems a gadget that expensive should do everything including breakfast. I've kept my edges sharp with scary sharp methods over PSA sandpaper on glass, using a veritas roller jig. Slow - but works great. I'm interested in switching my operation to a stone/felt/leather motorized operation (maybe just felt/leather disk). The archive search doesn't seem to work for me at school - Does anyone remember who recently posted pictures of a power honing setup? I liked that idea, but I can't seem to find it back again... Thanks, Jon (who's almost late for class) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158705 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-03-28 02:06:34 Subject: Re: Can ordinary planes double as scrapers? Christopher asks ... Date: 2006-03-27 13:37:22 Subject: Another what's it In my pile of miscellaneous things, I ran across this spear-like thing. It appears to be cast iron with the handle ground or filed. The handle is solid with no hole. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/member.php Of course, I got it in a lot at an auction, but am now just getting around to question it's use. Thanks in advance, Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158707 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-27 10:59:53 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Monday 27 March 2006 05:24 am, Ellis, Thomas wrote: > I forget how I know this, but I think their act comes from their being > on the > WoodWorking Show circuit. When you know that, the show is a little > easier > to understand, if not stomach. I provided feedback to The WoodWorking Channel asking if they plan to provide more hand tool footage, and how annoyed I was watching routers whine for the majority of that show. The Sam Maloof footage was interesting to hear him talk about various ways he creates projects. And there looks to be some more hand tool stuff coming up, like Frank Klausz and Yueng Chan has one coming up on "Making Hand Tools", which should be a good one also. I suspect like all other things in woodworking, there's many more using tailed apprentices and therefore will be allocated more air time. Sad but true, and I 'spose there are folks that enjoy watching routers whine at you while making crappy/ugly furniture of which similar can be bought at the BORG.:-( -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158708 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-27 13:01:56 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system >From: Jon Hammer >The archive search doesn't seem to work for me at school - Does anyone >remember who recently posted pictures of a power honing setup? I liked >that idea, but I can't seem to find it back again... > Perhaps this is the thread? http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id- =155923&submit_thread=1#message Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158709 ---- From: Thomas Johnson Date: 2006-03-27 13:14:26 Subject: Putting the life back in the wood? Greetings gathered Galooterati, So, the painful struggle starts 15 years ago when I bought a victorian side chair in an anteek shop. It was needing some serious repair, but it was $10 and it was a graceful piece ... way above average. It looked like the usual broken pieces repairs ... carve a new splat for the back --- for $10 I'm thinking to myself "well, this will be a fun weekend project one day". HAH! Drat! DAMN DAMN DAMN the hot water strip tanks to Old Tool Hell. Someone had once stripped this thing in one of those hot water vats, and then sprayed it so that t LOOKED like a restorable piece, but ./... it's like sanding chalk. DRY powder... the wood sounds hollow and weak when I work it... like sanding straws. Right now, best case scenario is that I get it done and it sits in a corner somewhere with a plant on it so that no-one sits on it and breaks their back. I'm wondering .... anyone have any ideas as to how to put the natural oils and resins BACK into a piece of walnut? I used to get these pieces when I had my antique store .... people would bring them in for refinishing ... "I've done 90% of the work .. it's all stripped and ready to go". I always refused flatly to take on these projects. Lost a lot of potential customers but it was like there was nothing there to work on. I'm polishing my own D*(&( spittoon this time. II feel like a dope buying this piece, but now I don't want to give up on it either. Ideas??? TIA Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158710 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-27 14:30:47 Subject: Another what's it, Second try Looks like I messed up on the first post, so here it is again: In my pile of miscellaneous things, I ran across this spear-like thing. It appears to be cast iron with the handle ground or filed. The handle is solid with no hole. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3761 Of course, I got it in a lot at an auction, but am now just getting around to question its use. Thanks in advance, Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY (pass the spitoon, I've got the Brasso and a rag) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158711 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-03-27 13:43:27 Subject: Old tools in Ft. Worth? Esteemed Galooterati, Some time ago, I ran across a gentleman's website who dealt in old tools, by appointment if I recall correctly. This was in Ft. Worth, Texas. However, I can't for the life of me remember the site address, nor did I bookmark it at the time. Can someone dig it it up or remember it? -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158712 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-27 11:54:50 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system On 27 Mar 2006 at 6:00, Kirk Eppler wrote: > L.A. Root wrote: > > > was really impressed by the Jooltool. > > Conceptually, it's a motorized scary sharp system: A small electric > > motor is mounted vertically with a spiral screw bit atop the shaft and > > a variable speed knob in the back. There are small disks to which you > > attach PSA backed sheets of micro abrasive on the BOTTOM of the disk. > > The disks and abrasive have slots in them to allow you to see the > > surface that you are sharpening. What with the small slots, it's > > about like doing it with sun glasses on; darker but clear and visible. > > Sounds like the Lee Valley and Lap Sharp systems, except you're working > on the BOTTOM of the disk. Interesting concept This is just like a jewelers splitlap machine. http://www.fdjtool.com/store/showitem.asp?Cat=25&item=17-945&store=5 These can be used with felt split laps and different compounds, or abrasive wheels with the same configuration. At one time used the split laps on a regular polishing lathe with a tapered spindle. You can see through the laps while you work. This could be cobbled together pretty cheaply with a little ingenuity. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158713 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-03-27 15:22:48 Subject: Re: Another what's it, Second try jack asked.... , I ran across this spear-like > thing. It appears to be cast iron with the handle ground or filed. > The handle is solid with no hole. > > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looks to be a Pike Head for sticking people , [not spear like but spear really].... Very simular looking ones were used onbord US navy ships in the late 1800s [maybe even as early as the civil war] as bording weapons. These though have a hollow socket with an attachment hole for a screw or pin. Pretty common to find though I have only ever seen one i think still with it's wooden shaft.I believe Bannerman or somebody surplused them out in the early 1900s or so. Not quite sure but this one sounds a bit different in that it doesn't have a socket like a chisel? If it doesn't then it probably had a tang which were often threaded out the back to attach it to the shaft. Could have some age to it and be pretty desirable if it wasn't cut.....Neat find.....Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158714 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-27 12:57:09 Subject: Ebay account Just for your information, I have learned what happened to my Ebay account, and how to fix it. If you ever get into the same predicament, this will help you. When I received the first Spoof letter inquiring about an item I knew nothing about, I was not aware of the spoof. Being a nice guy, I simply replied that I had nothing for sale. That reply was enough for the Spoofer to make an attack on my password. He did not succeed though, and ebay disabled the password. But now I could no longer use my account to buy any old tools. (Obligatory old tools content) Now the fun began. Unless you know how to use the system, it will be very frustrating trying to establish a new password. I know, I have been trying daily for over a week. First you need to enter the email address aw-confirm@e... in your address book. Do not forget the dash, as I did. The lack of the dash caused their emails to never arrive in my email. On the main Ebay page there is a little link, "Live Help." It actually works, although you may have to wait a while. I talked to 4 different people there on 4 different days, and each one said they sent a link which would enable me to change my password. They did, but I didn't have their address correct in my address book. When I finally did get into the place where I could change my password, it asked for my old password, but would not accept it. What it actually wanted was the temporary password that they had sent. Once I got that figured out, by means of a phone call from Ebay, (they actually called!) I was able to change my password and all is now well. Do not reply to anything from anybody you do not know. Not for any reason. I did not realize that the email purporting to be from Ebay was in fact a Spoof. Live and learn. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158715 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-27 13:03:11 Subject: Addendum Just after sending the previous message I got this (in part) from Ebay: "In the future, if you get an email that looks like it’s from eBay about a problem with your account, a message from another eBay member or requests personal information, check My Messages in your My eBay page first. If it is not there, it is a fake email. As well, you can always forward the e-mail to spoof@e... for verification. This lets us take quick action on the fake website and we will respond to you within minutes to tell you if it was really from eBay." Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158716 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-27 13:07:53 Subject: Re: Cutting Masonite Has anyone tried the spinning tool of death that bears the same name as a Stanley 71? Cut proud, than use the R@#ter to cut to the line with a good fence? Seems like that is a great surface for that to cut. Jim McVicar wrote: >I'm looking for tips or advice on how to cut the masonite. > -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158717 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-27 15:10:56 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system GG, >From: Jon Hammer >The archive search doesn't seem to work for me at school - Does anyone >remember who recently posted pictures of a power honing setup? I liked that >idea, but I can't seem to find it back again... > It might be this..... http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/jThompson/res- tore/sharpFeltWheel/SharpeningDevice.asp Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158718 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-27 16:20:45 Subject: Re: Plane Advise Wanted Need some beading planes and H&R's? heck -post a WTB for some woodies!! They don't require any set-up time, and the learning curve is pretty darn short. My bet is that the _real_ problem will be people wanting to play with them - fine if it's me in my gara^h^h^h^hshop, not so good if'n yer paying them. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Save the world too often, and it begins to expect it ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158719 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-27 13:11:08 Subject: Re: Putting the life back in the wood? Thomas Johnson wrote: > but it was $10 and it was a graceful piece ... way above average. Ok, how above average Tom? If it's worth it, they say Abatron is the best. A soak in epoxy that's said to be almost bulletproof yours, best luck Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158720 ---- From: "frank chebiniak" Date: 2006-03-27 16:23:25 Subject: RE: Another what's it, Second try almost looks like a fence finial >From: "Jack Kamishlian" >To: oldtools >Subject: [OldTools] Another what's it, Second try >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:30:47 -0500 > >Looks like I messed up on the first post, so here it is again: > >In my pile of miscellaneous things, I ran across this spear-like >thing. It appears to be cast iron with the handle ground or filed. >The handle is solid with no hole. > >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >Of course, I got it in a lot at an auction, but am now just getting >around to question its use. > >Thanks in advance, >Cheers, >Jack in Endwell, NY (pass the spitoon, I've got the Brasso and a rag) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To change your subscription options: >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158721 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-27 17:04:08 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system Jon, She had long, polished nails with no evidence of damage, and she was all but carefree in throwing her hands under there. Actually, she was also a jeweler, and it seems that this application might have evolved from a jewelry polishing concept. (Did I get enough weasel words in there to indicate speculation?) She had a number of wheels with thin soft plastic like cords with embedded grit that could have polished and have easily taken the wire edge from the inside of an outcannel gouge; she used one to polish the inside of my parting tool. She did demo it with a plane blade, but I didn't look to verify its size -- my impression was about a #4. She had an early release of a larger disk that I'd guess capable of handling the larger plane blades, and it's due out mid year as I recall. If I wanted to do a micro, back bevel, I doubt that I'd use that machine; but that could be my ignorance as easily as it could be the machine's limit. Given the variable speed and the super fine grits available, I guess it's my limited knowledge. Other than that, she had a good variety of tools that she was using in her demo. I don't know of any "do everything" machine. But, were I starting to put together a sharpening kit today, I would be seriously considering that machine. If I ever get to the point where I can learn turning or carving (two skills that I want to learn), it will be on my wish list even now simply for its speed and the ability to sharpen while taking off very little steel. I'm a bit of a cynic (my wife would laugh at my qualifier), but I was favorably impressed with the machine. Very respectfully, Larry Jon Hammer wrote: > After hiding under the porch for a while, I've decided to come out for > some spring air: > Regarding the JoolTool sharpener- > The only problem I'd have with this high tech approach is that it > doesn't give any way to take the wire edge off of an outcannel gouge, > and no provision (that I can think of) is given for any incannel gouge > maintenance. JoolTool never mentions or demonstrate any sharpening of > any plane irons, either. Only narrow edged tools are demonstrated. > Seems a gadget that expensive should do everything including breakfast. > > I've kept my edges sharp with scary sharp methods over PSA sandpaper > on glass, using a veritas roller jig. Slow - but works great. I'm > interested in switching my operation to a stone/felt/leather motorized > operation (maybe just felt/leather disk). > The archive search doesn't seem to work for me at school - Does anyone > remember who recently posted pictures of a power honing setup? I liked > that idea, but I can't seem to find it back again... > > Thanks, > Jon (who's almost late for class) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158722 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-27 17:07:21 Subject: Re: Another what's it, Second try Maybe the tip from a flag standard, which are styled to look like spears. Larry Jack Kamishlian wrote: >Looks like I messed up on the first post, so here it is again: > >In my pile of miscellaneous things, I ran across this spear-like >thing. It appears to be cast iron with the handle ground or filed. >The handle is solid with no hole. > >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >Of course, I got it in a lot at an auction, but am now just getting >around to question its use. > >Thanks in advance, >Cheers, >Jack in Endwell, NY (pass the spitoon, I've got the Brasso and a rag) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To change your subscription options: >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158723 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-27 17:17:47 Subject: Re: Putting the life back in the wood? At 02:14 PM 3/27/2006, Thomas Johnson wrote: >HAH! Drat! DAMN DAMN DAMN the hot water strip tanks to Old Tool >Hell. Someone had once stripped this thing in one of those hot water vats Much more cussing deleted......... >I'm wondering .... anyone have any ideas as to how to put the >natural oils and resins BACK into a piece of walnut? Pretty hard thing to do at this point. I have had limited success with a 50/50 mix of warm boiled linseed oil (don't use raw linseed oil, you will hate both of us..) and either mineral spirits or turpentine. Gently heat in double boiler till it is a touch to hot to stick yer finger (or any other appendage..) in. Brush it on, let it soak in and keep brushing till it don't take no more. Wipe of any excess and let it dry. Walnut will darken but it might bring some life back to the wood, although how deep remains to be seen. I remember reading SOMEPLACE SOMETIME that linseed oil instead of acting as vapour barrier, will in fact attract moisture. But I don't remember the particulars, and probably never will. Good luck, and remember, sometimes it's the challenge that counts, not the success. Tony (looking at the first real week of Spring weather here..now if only the tools will start a sprouting!) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158724 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-27 17:22:48 Subject: Re: A high tech scary sharp system Steve, Yes, that looks functionally the same as her motor system, but that site didn't show its disks or abrasives. It seemed more expensive than her's too. Larry Steve Reynolds wrote: >Perhaps this is the thread? > >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_i- >d=155923&submit_thread=1#message > >Regards, Steve > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158725 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-27 17:35:52 Subject: The Widow Al! Al! Al! What are you thinking? Gravy!!! You have to keep this woman in the best of health. You aren't a relative and won't inherit so you have to keep her going till you get all the books and tools. Steve Who just finished cleaning a neat Simmonds/Millers Falls/Langdon 5 X 28 miter saw. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158726 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-28 06:53:17 Subject: Re: The Widow and the Turkey Dear Alan, you wote: Fellow Rustaholics, I cooked up a big meal today for the widow woman next door, turkey, mashed potatoes, turnip, roast parsnips and carrots, peas and scratch gravy. SWMBO delivered it and my middle GIT Victoria stayed to eat with the widow. SWMBO returned with "Audel's Carpenters and Builders Guide, Volumes 2 - 4, the match to volume 1 I got the other day. Maybe I should put a sign out front, "Will cook for tools." PeterH writes: To my way of thinking Al, the subject line says it all - "The Widow and The Turkey". I surmise she's got more use for good food than old books. Yep, I'd say she's getting you trained up real good (one or two books at a time with the promise of more to come if the gravy keeps flowing). Envious? Who - Me, Nah! I can't even boil water. PeterH in Perth Maintaining a good coating of FeO on all my old tools. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158727 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-27 17:11:17 Subject: Re: Old tools in Ft. Worth? TJ, Could you be thinking of Garland (dallas area) rather than Fort Worth? If you are not familiar with the north Texas area, dallas is a suburb of Fort Worth - about 30 miles east. Garland is on the northeast side of dallas. Lynn Dowd operates that way in Garland. Here is his website. http://www.dowdstools.com/ If there is anyone in Fort Worth doing this, I haven't heard of them (but would like to). Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" To: "oldtools" Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [OldTools] Old tools in Ft. Worth? > Esteemed Galooterati, > > Some time ago, I ran across a gentleman's website who dealt in old > tools, by appointment if I recall correctly. > This was in Ft. Worth, Texas. > > However, I can't for the life of me remember the site address, nor > did I bookmark it at the time. > Can someone dig it it up or remember it? > > -- > T.J. Mahaffey > tj@t... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158728 ---- From: "Bill Fariss" Date: 2006-03-27 19:26:51 Subject: book gloat Just received "WOODEN PLOW PLANES: A Celebration of the Planemakers' Art. By D. Rosebrook & D. Fisher" for $14.95 (regularly $75.00). I must say that it is worth any price! Hamilton.com still has some. Bill Fariss Sterling, Va ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158729 ---- From: "Bill Fariss" Date: 2006-03-27 19:26:51 Subject: Errata That's HamiltonBook.com, sorry Bill Fariss Sterling, Va ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158730 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-28 02:33:16 Subject: RE: Can ordinary planes double as scraper "Christopher J. Scholz" wrote (abridged): > I received an e-mail from JapanWoodworker.com where they state that > their Chinese-style planes (and also some H.N.T. Gordon style planes) > can double as scraper planes by simply reversion the blade. ... > I start wondering... > > Any commends? Ludo? > Chris, I have 2 HNT Gordon smoothers, and they can indeed be used as scrapers by placing the blade bevel up (just reversing the blade). The planing position of the blade is with the bevel down (that is if you look at your plane from the front, the blade shows you its flat face), and the angle is a steep 60 degrees. If you reverse the blade, the 60degrees bed angle added to the 30degrees of the bevel (not taking into account any secondary bevel) will provide you a 90degree scraper position. You can read the interesting FAQ on Mr Gordon's site at: http://www.hntgordon.com.au/faqs1.htm Ludo (no affiliation with HNT Gordon neither!) _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158731 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-28 02:38:17 Subject: RE: Steel from the Andrews company from Sheffield Don wrote (in parts): "I know this doesn't really answer your questions, but hope it gives you a little to start with." Don, Thank you very much! This is more than I'd have expected. I know now when the company was created, what was its product line... Indeed a good start for further investigation of their relationship with Japan. Ludo (Taiwan) _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158732 ---- From: "Steve Johnson" Date: 2006-03-27 17:02:45 Subject: RE: A high tech scary sharp system What I'd like to see if this system, but inverted with a mirror on the bottom so I could practice my tried and true "right side up" system but still be able to see the bevel being ground (in the mirror). This would also put force downwards on the disk so that if it let loose for any reason it wouldn't be flying toward your face. The mirror would get dirty, but cleaning it occasionally would be worth it. Steve Johnson -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of L.A. Root Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:04 PM To: Jon Hammer Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] A high tech scary sharp system Jon, She had long, polished nails with no evidence of damage, and she was all but carefree in throwing her hands under there. Actually, she was also a jeweler, and it seems that this application might have evolved from a jewelry polishing concept. (Did I get enough weasel words in there to indicate speculation?) She had a number of wheels with thin soft plastic like cords with embedded grit that could have polished and have easily taken the wire edge from the inside of an outcannel gouge; she used one to polish the inside of my parting tool. She did demo it with a plane blade, but I didn't look to verify its size -- my impression was about a #4. She had an early release of a larger disk that I'd guess capable of handling the larger plane blades, and it's due out mid year as I recall. If I wanted to do a micro, back bevel, I doubt that I'd use that machine; but that could be my ignorance as easily as it could be the machine's limit. Given the variable speed and the super fine grits available, I guess it's my limited knowledge. Other than that, she had a good variety of tools that she was using in her demo. I don't know of any "do everything" machine. But, were I starting to put together a sharpening kit today, I would be seriously considering that machine. If I ever get to the point where I can learn turning or carving (two skills that I want to learn), it will be on my wish list even now simply for its speed and the ability to sharpen while taking off very little steel. I'm a bit of a cynic (my wife would laugh at my qualifier), but I was favorably impressed with the machine. Very respectfully, Larry Jon Hammer wrote: > After hiding under the porch for a while, I've decided to come out for > some spring air: > Regarding the JoolTool sharpener- > The only problem I'd have with this high tech approach is that it > doesn't give any way to take the wire edge off of an outcannel gouge, > and no provision (that I can think of) is given for any incannel gouge > maintenance. JoolTool never mentions or demonstrate any sharpening of > any plane irons, either. Only narrow edged tools are demonstrated. > Seems a gadget that expensive should do everything including breakfast. > > I've kept my edges sharp with scary sharp methods over PSA sandpaper > on glass, using a veritas roller jig. Slow - but works great. I'm > interested in switching my operation to a stone/felt/leather motorized > operation (maybe just felt/leather disk). > The archive search doesn't seem to work for me at school - Does anyone > remember who recently posted pictures of a power honing setup? I liked > that idea, but I can't seem to find it back again... > > Thanks, > Jon (who's almost late for class) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158733 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-27 17:36:55 Subject: Re: Cabin Table (was Pine Blotch) Table update... Yesterday afternoon and first thing this morning I applied coats of the nutmeg brown, but the orange was still too pronounced. I pulled out the big guns of the gel stain world... Java. I applied a coat of that this evening and then documented it with the following photo. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3765 So to summarize, the table now has: 2 wash-coats of Rev Hock's garnet shellac 2 coats of General Finishes Nutmeg Brown gel stain 1 coat of General Finishes Java gel stain The table is still a bit orange compared with the target color on the chair. Actually, I've given up matching the chair, but I've decided to shoot for close enough. I'll stop futzing with it (technical term) when I think that the table and its chairs seem okay with each other.. a kind of Zen thing. My considered upcoming futz is one more very thin coat of nutmeg brown gel before starting the topcoat regimen. I guess that I'll make that decision on the fly before coffee in the AM. Steve in Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158734 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-27 18:06:05 Subject: Re: Old tools in Ft. Worth? --- Frank Sronce clarified some Texas geography for TJ: > If you are not familiar with the north Texas area, > dallas is a suburb of Fort Worth - about 30 miles > east. Garland is on the northeast side of dallas. That would make Garland an exurb of Ft. Worth... right? Steve in suburban Ft. Worth Who looks forward to Lynn Dowds Old Sorehead tool sales. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158735 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-27 18:12:25 Subject: Re: Cutting Masonite Hi guys--- I had a couple of closets to do in masonite---did quite a bit of the cutting with handsaws and block-planed all the edges where they were revealed---I wouldn't say the stuff dulled the plane's edge any faster than regular wood, but it definitely is harder than pine and such. The stuff sure lasts--I was matching existing work that was done in the forties or fifties, and using some of the old stuff that I removed/remodeled--- it's thinner than the new stuff---and perhaps brittler---but still very hard and stout. Makes great drawer bottoms... Never used a powered router on the stuff, but why not? If you don't have any handsaws or block planes or table saws or jigsaws, it might be the right tool for the job. best to all; gAM --- Kirk Eppler wrote: > Has anyone tried the spinning tool of death that bears the same name > as a Stanley 71? Cut proud, than use the R@#ter to cut to the line > with a good fence? Seems like that is a great surface for that to cut. > > Jim McVicar wrote: > > >I'm looking for tips or advice on how to cut the masonite. > > > > -- > Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158736 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-03-27 20:12:27 Subject: Re: Old tools in Ft. Worth? That's the one, Frank. Thank you! -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... On Mar 27, 2006, at 5:11 PM, Frank Sronce wrote: > Lynn Dowd operates that way in Garland. Here is his website. > http://www.dowdstools.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158737 ---- From: "Clif Palmberg" Date: 2006-03-27 21:00:18 Subject: Re: Old tools in Ft. Worth? I do not know about that person specifically, but I know of another, Dennis Furlow. His site is at: http://localbizalliance.com/shakerwoodworks/shakerwoodworks.html He is in Burleson and used to be in historic downtown Carrollton. I probably acquired half of my old tools from him (and shamefully admit I still have about 8 VHS tapes of St. Roy that he lent me). -Clif in Little Elm, Texas On 3/27/06, T.J. Mahaffey wrote: > Esteemed Galooterati, > > Some time ago, I ran across a gentleman's website who dealt in old > tools, by appointment if I recall correctly. > This was in Ft. Worth, Texas. > > However, I can't for the life of me remember the site address, nor > did I bookmark it at the time. > Can someone dig it it up or remember it? > > -- > T.J. Mahaffey > tj@t... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > -- "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." -- Jim Horning ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158738 ---- From: M P Smoak Date: 2006-03-27 22:09:30 Subject: Spring Cleaning & "String too short to be saved" Well, spring's come to the bluegrass and I got Karl, a real carpenter, to work with me today in the garage. Had a day of emptying it to the yard, building bench and shelfs, and mounting my postdrill. We did a similar job in the basement a few weeks ago with shelves and revamping of an existing bench. Getting the workspaces the way I need them, inside and out. Woodworking in basement, other work in garage. Now comes the big sorting of tools and materials. Feels good. Both spaces became storage areas/junk piles over the past ten or so years. Long story; not worth telling. Sure feels good to toss the junk and org the tools I've accumulated. I don't collect, no. But I have found a bunch of things that needed a better home. And I do have some packrat tendencies. All this spring cleaning got me to remembering an exchange, I think took place here; someone asked if any company had ever made a jig for sharpening can opener blades (or something like that) and someone else replied that he thought not. Because if anyone had made one, his father in law would have had one, in a labeled drawer. Next to the drawer labeled "String, too short to save". If who ever came up with that reply is on this list, thanks for giving me a giggle today. Happy spring. (Or fall, as the case may be.) Marv in Lexington, KY giggle, ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158739 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-27 22:27:12 Subject: Re: book bargain Apprenticeship Part 2 Thanks to everyone for your encouraging responses and to Wiktor for also putting my ramblings on his Old Tools site. Here is a more detailed account of events that will be really long so I will serialize it. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. 1959 South London My apprenticeship began with a company making pre-cast concrete architectural components. I was not really learning much so I applied for a transfer to another company. My request was granted, and I transferred to a small company with a 2 man shop. Here, I was quickly broken into the life of “the boy.” The shop was in Wimbledon and the 3 of us, and a labourer was left pretty much alone. My 2 mentors were both in their late 50’s and had the standard joiners’ tool chests stowed under their benches. Both chests had a hidden compartment that had a sprung release mechanism which when activated disclosed a collapsable top hat. It seems this was a side of the joiner’s craft that is pretty much unknown as the hats were used when participating as pall bearers for the client in the coffin you had made to measure. Both joiners had Norris smoothers and shoulder planes and a good selection of Disston saws. Both also had a large collection of assorted moulding planes that were stored on a long shelf at the back of the shop and were for everyone’s use. My first 6 weeks was spent with cabinet scrapers and sandpaper cleaning up Honduras mahogany door frames. They had 6” x 3” jambs and headers and were for floor spring mounted swing doors. I was 17 and came home crying to Mum with huge blisters on my thumbs from the hot scrapers and was told in no uncertain manner that it must have been my fault, and I had to be thankful I was learning a trade! After a few months I was given my first small job. It was a small hollow core door covered in masonite with the top at an angle to fit a cupboard under the stairs. I was instructed to be careful and not forget to allow for edgings of pine on each edge. I did everything by hand and used half lap joints in the internal rails and stiles. On the day I finished it, I proudly presented my work for approval. What I got was, “It’s a good job we have already made this as you forgot to allow for the edgings and in the time you took we could have made 10.” Then my pride and joy was smashed up before my eyes! Humiliation was complete and utter. Some time later we moved to a bigger shop in Wandsworth and I experienced my first building site. The company had acquired property that consisted of an old 3 storey house and behind was a courtyard with a side entrance. On the right hand side there was a long 1 storey windowed building and at the back was the the building we were to renovate for a shop. The shop was a pretty run down building that had been a cinema or theatre at one time. The ceiling was a semicircular vault, and one wall was entirely wood French doors with transom lights above. The shop area was around 60’ x 30’ and about 25’ high in the centre of the arched ceiling. My first duty was to learn how to make tea in a bucket over an open fire out in the yard and then to make saw horses. All the work was done with hand tools as we had no electricity available at that time, or indeed even any electric tools! First we installed a T&G pine floor on sleeper joists bedded in tar, and then did repairs to French doors and windows. A wood stove was installed and a sink and tea making area. We also made some forms for casting concrete leg frames for the 12” radial arm saw that was placed on an end wall. The 20’ bench for it was slotted to allow saw dust to fall through. I remember being instructed on the use of a water level and plumb bob and how to work from level and plumb datum lines. In the yard a 20’x 10’ plywood and timber storage shed was built. It had a pair of framed, ledged and braced doors at each end which were site built by me. Pine and 16’ x 5’ sheets of block board and Baltic plywood stored in that shed were cut to rough length with handsaws before being carried into the shop. All of the pine we used was called Archangel pine because it was shipped from the port of Archangel in northern Russia. We purchased “Deals” (A length of square sawn softwood 2-4 inches thick, 9-11 inches wide) by the “Standard” (165 cubic feet = 1 Petrograd Standard). In Britain “Deal“ has now become a generic term for softwood. Normally an agent arranged the transaction and we picked up our order from London Docks. Sometimes we got pine that was salt water damaged. It had been a deck load and during a storm the load shifted and the ship keeled over to a crazy angle so that the load was immersed. Needless to say this pine was stickered and left to dry for quite a while before it was used in low class work. Quite often we would get shrapnel and bullets embedded in some of the pine. More to come....... Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158740 ---- From: "John Pesut" Date: 2006-03-27 22:39:00 Subject: Re: Free (almost) to a good (well, To all you money bag grubbing Galoots- Ok, I got a *bunch* of requests. Bear with me, I will send them out (even to England and Australia). But this ain't my livelyhood so be patient. Later, John (in warming up nicely - even saw two turkeys doin' what comes naturally in the trees out back this morning - N.E. Oh-HI-ah) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158741 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-03-27 21:47:05 Subject: RE: raised bed gardens one more time.... >>>>> "James" == James DuPrie writes: James> Hi Micheal, I'd be worried that a 1x would bow out with the James> pressure from the soil. I'm building a foot deep. How deep James> were yours, and what was the longest span? James> Thanks -_JD The planks I used were about 6ft in length, and put a 2x2 stake on the outside of the frame every 3 feet. You could also use 1x2 as a "stay" between the 2x2's. One thing that I did was attach a section of 1-inch pvc on teh inside of the frame, opposite the 2x2's and they made good holders for 3/4-inch pvc hoops and trelises. Steve's recommendation of rubber edging on the ground side of teh frame is a good idea. You could also line the inside of the frame with rubber/plastic edging, or heavy gage plastic sheeting. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158742 ---- From: "Scott Matthews" Date: 2006-03-27 22:40:00 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I thought those router guys were a riot! Kinda like Laurel & Hardy. They try their best, but. . . They made a jig to cut corners off a board. (straight cuts, nothing fancy) For the cost of their materials & hardware, you could buy a saw. (Not to mention needing the saw to make the jig.) And in the time to make the jlg you could have cut dozens of corners off. You can't help but laugh. Scott Matthews -----Original Message----- >From: "Alan DuBoff" >Sent: 03/26/2006 4:49:26 AM >To: "oldtools@r..." >Cc: "Yarrow, Gary" >Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel >> http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. > >I got around to booting Windows to watch some of the stuff there. There was >some interesting seminar that Sam Maloof was giving, and showing how he makes >his chairs. He even talked about the ways he has cut fingers off.:-/ > >In between though there was this video for the Router Show. I'm heard of this >show before, but have never seen it. This had to be the worst show I've >watched in a while. > >I've heard this is a father and son, but they don't look alike to me. Anyway, >they talk for really fast for about 2 minutes and run their routers for about >5 minutes. That seems to go one for the duration of the show, and one nice >thing about the video is that you can mute the audio, because most of the >time it was: > >yyyyyeeeeaaaaawwwwwwwwww...bbbbbbbyyyeeeeeeeoooooowwwwwwww, wahhhhhhh, >wahhhhhhhh, etc... > >I found that most annoying. > >In the end it was cool, they were able to make a chair in about 30 minutes >which looked like something you could buy at the BORG for about $25, and the >old guy kept praising routers and how a band saw couldn't do this or >that...and how you just can't live without a router.;-) > >OTOH, maybe their chair was for outdoor furniture or something, it certainly >wasn't something I'd want inside of my house...and even though it might be >better than some of the furniture currently in my house, I've trying to get >rid of any of that type of stuff already...I don't need more garbage to haul >away...I take that back, their chair could be cut up and the wood used for >something else.;-) > >-- > >Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration >GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE >----------------------------------------------------------------------- - >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To change your subscription options: >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > >To read the FAQ: >http://ww??w.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtoolsad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158743 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-27 22:55:55 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Yeah!!. Scott Phillips just built a wood body bench plane. Something for everyone here. Don't forget to wear your ear protection and safety glasses if you watch the channel. . Huck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Matthews" To: Cc: "'Yarrow, Gary'" Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel >I thought those router guys were a riot! Kinda like Laurel & Hardy. > They try their best, but. . . > > They made a jig to cut corners off a board. (straight cuts, nothing > fancy) For the cost of their materials & hardware, you could buy a saw. > (Not to mention needing the saw to make the jig.) And in the time to > make the jlg you could have cut dozens of corners off. You can't help > but laugh. > > Scott Matthews > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: "Alan DuBoff" > >Sent: 03/26/2006 4:49:26 AM > >To: "oldtools@r..." > > >Cc: "Yarrow, Gary" > >Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > >> http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. > > > >I got around to booting Windows to watch some of the stuff there. > There was > >some interesting seminar that Sam Maloof was giving, and showing how > he makes > >his chairs. He even talked about the ways he has cut fingers off.:-/ > > > >In between though there was this video for the Router Show. I'm > heard of this > >show before, but have never seen it. This had to be the worst show > I've > >watched in a while. > > > >I've heard this is a father and son, but they don't look alike to > me. Anyway, > >they talk for really fast for about 2 minutes and run their routers > for about > >5 minutes. That seems to go one for the duration of the show, and > one nice > >thing about the video is that you can mute the audio, because most > of the > >time it was: > > > >yyyyyeeeeaaaaawwwwwwwwww...bbbbbbbyyyeeeeeeeoooooowwwwwwww, > wahhhhhhh, > >wahhhhhhhh, etc... > > > >I found that most annoying. > > > >In the end it was cool, they were able to make a chair in about 30 > minutes > >which looked like something you could buy at the BORG for about $25, > and the > >old guy kept praising routers and how a band saw couldn't do this or > > >that...and how you just can't live without a router.;-) > > > >OTOH, maybe their chair was for outdoor furniture or something, it > certainly > >wasn't something I'd want inside of my house...and even though it > might be > >better than some of the furniture currently in my house, I've trying > to get > >rid of any of that type of stuff already...I don't need more garbage > to haul > >away...I take that back, their chair could be cut up and the wood > used for > >something else.;-) > > > >-- > > > >Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > >GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 > EBEE > >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > >To change your subscription options: > >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > >To read the FAQ: > >http://ww??w.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > >OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > >OldTools@r... > >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtoolsad > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158744 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-27 23:13:48 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel My greatest gripe about these two was the fact that they replaced St. Roy on our local PBS station several years ago. They are no longer with us, I'm happy to say. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Matthews" To: Cc: "'Yarrow, Gary'" Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel >I thought those router guys were a riot! Kinda like Laurel & Hardy. > They try their best, but. . . > > They made a jig to cut corners off a board. (straight cuts, nothing > fancy) For the cost of their materials & hardware, you could buy a > saw. > (Not to mention needing the saw to make the jig.) And in the time to > make the jlg you could have cut dozens of corners off. You can't help > but laugh. > > Scott Matthews > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158745 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-27 23:35:39 Subject: Re: book bargain Apprenticeship Part 2 On Monday 27 March 2006 07:27 pm, Peter Hyde wrote: > Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. This is a most excellent write up, which I find most interesting. The galoot in the U.K. I was discussing this same stuff with started down that path as I was asking him about joiners. Specificially I was asking if there was anything such as the consortium of tool makers that worked in Sheffield, where various independent tool makers would work on tools with each other...one guy would forge, one guy would grind, one guy might sharpen saws, or shape handles, etc...the tool makers would work on per job work and perform that specific skill. He told me that joiners would do things like that, but would usually take on the entire job, rather than having a guy build carcasses, a guy build drawers, or one to hang panels and doors, etc... Anything like that exist back in the U.K. that you knew about? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158746 ---- From: "S. Micah Salb" Date: 2006-03-28 07:24:52 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel It seems there is much of that. None of our three local PBS affiliates (three!) carries Roy (despite my repeated requests; I dunno if they get other requests). And they always call around fund-raising time, asking oh-so-earnestly what programming we'd like to see. And I tell them, even though I know they just want my money. They'd get a lot more of it if they actually listened. -Micah in Washington, DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Sronce" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > My greatest gripe about these two was the fact that they replaced St. Roy > on our local PBS station several years ago. They are no longer with us, > I'm happy to say. > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Matthews" > To: > Cc: "'Yarrow, Gary'" > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > >>I thought those router guys were a riot! Kinda like Laurel & Hardy. >> They try their best, but. . . >> >> They made a jig to cut corners off a board. (straight cuts, nothing >> fancy) For the cost of their materials & hardware, you could buy a saw. >> (Not to mention needing the saw to make the jig.) And in the time to >> make the jlg you could have cut dozens of corners off. You can't help >> but laugh. >> >> Scott Matthews >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158747 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-03-28 07:51:32 Subject: RE: Another what's it Galoots, About a pike looking file with a handle, Jack in Endwell asked what it is. Take a look for yourself at < http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/member.php > It sure looks like a small wood lathe skew chisel for wood turning. I could turn a nice bead with it. Looks like it is made out of an old Swiss file. Only the "Swiss" is unusual to me. I've had/sold several dozen lathe tools made from files and this is NOT the smallest I've seen. A friend who makes miniatures has smaller ones, self made and custom shaped. Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158748 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-28 08:18:09 Subject: Raised bed final plan..... First of all, thanks to everyone that responded. We've drifted a bit off topic (it may be time to kill this thread?...).. Here's the plan: The local University saw mill (Forestry program includes a harvesting section) has some 2xX stock that will be cheap. Its generic softwood. I'll use 4x4 for corner posts, galv. spiral nail to hold the sides in. The sides will have a strip of rubber type garden edging stapled in to help protect from ground contact. Because the beds are kinda big (4'x8'), I'll add a 2x2 stake midway down the long side to help prevent bowing. Trip to the sawmill is Thu, hopefully beds will be going in Sunday, and Mon or Tue will be the fill days.... OT content...... well, I *will* be using a hammer to drive in the nails, and I'll be using a handsaw to cut things to length, and an old hatchet to point the stakes..... (OK, so it's a stretch......) Thanks again for all your help --JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158749 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-28 08:06:35 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel At least we finally got St. Roy back on our local PBS (out of dallas). It comes on at 1:30 pm on Wednesdays - 2 or 3 year old programs. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Micah Salb" > > None of our three local PBS affiliates (three!) carries Roy (despite > my repeated requests; I dunno if they get other requests). And they > always call around fund-raising time, asking oh-so-earnestly what > programming we'd like to see. And I tell them, even though I know > they just want my money. They'd get a lot more of it if they actually > listened. > > -Micah in Washington, DC ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158750 ---- From: "Bill Fariss" Date: 2006-03-28 09:29:13 Subject: WTB Auburn items I am looking for the following two items: Auburn Tool Co. #180 size 14 Hollow must be in at least good+ condition. Auburn Tool Co. tool catalog original or reproduction in good condition. Buy or trade. Bill Fariss Sterling, Va ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158751 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-28 08:51:05 Subject: Re: Cabin Table (was Pine Blotch) Steven Longley wrote: > but the orange was still too pronounced. > > Steve Sorry to jump in so late, but there are color wheel articles that talk about using one color to reduce another. Here is alink to Jeff Jewitt's tech article on it http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/tech_dyes.htm Brief section, read the whole thing to really understand Say the color is too red. Look on the color wheel for red and find the color opposite it. It's green. Add a dilute green dye to the board and it effectively "kills" the red without darkening the color too much. Colors opposite each other on the color wheel are called complementary colors. If a color is too orange add the complement -- blue. If a color is too purple -- add yellow. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158752 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-28 08:52:34 Subject: a couple of reminders Hi galoots: It's again time for the old guy to suggest that you take a pile of plane shavings out-of-doors and set fire to same---nothing is quite as sobering as the sudden conflagration that will surely ensue. If the pile's about the size of the pile in my shop today, it'll be a super-eye- opener. If it's only as big as the pile in my basement, where I rarely plane, but sometimes smoke, it might be the kind of thing you could stomp out. Then again, it might not. Another note---I finally spent the dough on a take-apart framing square, a Nicholls--only days later I saw at the PNTC meeting a cheaper one made by PSW and another made by some other maker, perhaps Eagle---the Nicholls is the one I like best, and was well worth the $100 it cost me to get back even with Patrick Leach. He sent it to me and I owed him, for a minute or two. I'd forgotten the number that I carried in my head as a young carpenter---measuring from corner to corner of the square is the easiest and most reliable check for rectilinearity---when I spanned across the corners of my "new" Nicholls, the number came back: Twenty Eight and Twenty Seven Thirty- Seconds. There it was. We used to say "28 and 27", back when I was around people who knew and cared. The *Square a line on a board, flop the square and compare the two* is only good if you have a perfectly jointed board. If the board's off by 1/32" in 32", which ain't so very visible, the error the square will show is pretty close to 1/8". That's an awful lot, sometimes, especially if you're extrapolating from there. Just remember 28 and 27, and you're home and dry. And if your square AIN'T square, it's no good like it is now, so whang it. best to all galoots, everywhere; gAM in Seattle How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158753 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-28 09:41:07 Subject: Re: a couple of reminders Gary May reminded us about fire safety and offered up a handy mnemonic to check on the squareness of a square: > Just remember 28 and 27, and you're home and dry. i.e. 28 27/32" across the tips. Thanks Gary... That is a method of checking a square that I had not thought of... of course this only works in the "feet & inches world" and only on squares that have legs of 24" & 16", respectively. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne" - The Craftsman ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158754 ---- From: "jeff strickland" Date: 2006-03-28 12:46:26 Subject: WTB: Panel Saw Hello friends, I'm looking for a panel saw for my father. I would like to locate a 16 to 20" panel saw with 10, 11, or 12 TPI, crosscut. Disstons, Atkins, whatever - Although, he's familiar with Disston and would probably choose to have that. Would prefer a user that is clean and has good teeth. Preferably something prewar, or at least with a pretty handle (walnut, rosewood, applewood). Let me know if you can help. Regards, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158755 ---- From: hb Date: 2006-03-28 10:46:52 Subject: RE: raised bed gardens one more time.... We did raised beds about 3 years ago. The beds are 9 feet by 9 feet and 6 inches tall. I used rough cut white oak and hemlock. The corners are just screwed together. In a few sections I had to splice lengths of wood together to get the 9 foot length I wanted, using some scraps. I accomplished that by driving a 3 inch wide stake about 12 inches into the ground on the inside of the bed at the splice, and then nailed the two ends to the stake. No signs of anything rotting yet, and the soil doesn't push the sides out at all. Good Luck. HB - Reading PA starting the seeds this week. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158756 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-28 10:46:55 Subject: Incorrigible Hi Galoots Remember a couple days ago I showed the, smaller-than-a-#2 smoother I made from the pitiful Shelton, a thick blade n chipper and some rosewood? It's only 6 1/2" long, remember. Nobody noticed much at the time. So, I had to go and restyle it. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/dink.htm yours, Scott -- Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158757 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-03-28 11:04:55 Subject: Re: Incorrigible Scott writes: > Remember a couple days ago I showed the, smaller-than-a-#2 smoother > I made from the pitiful Shelton, a thick blade n chipper and some > rosewood? It's only 6 1/2" long, remember. > Nobody noticed much at the time. > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/dink.htm Scott, You gotta know the difference between "not noticing" and being speechless. I suspect other folks on the porch have that figured out now. So, how's it drive? cur - working on making my own tools lately. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158758 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-28 11:28:25 Subject: Re: Incorrigible Heck, Scott, you didn't go far enough. Why not grind down the cap, redrill and tap for the cap bolt so it is over the blade support in order to make the blade more firmly bedded without the bowing the blade as these are prone to do? But I think you made a good looker! Take care, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "scott grandstaff" To: "porch" Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: [OldTools] Incorrigible > Hi Galoots > Remember a couple days ago I showed the, smaller-than-a-#2 smoother > I made from the pitiful Shelton, a thick blade n chipper and some > rosewood? It's only 6 1/2" long, remember. > Nobody noticed much at the time. > So, I had to go and restyle it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158759 ---- From: Keith Mealy Date: 2006-03-28 12:20:05 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel If it's the ones I saw once, they made a night stand with a router only. Cutoffs, rips, miters, you name it. Wazzat, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." "Scott Matthews" said:I thought those router guys were a riot! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158760 ---- From: Keith Mealy Date: 2006-03-28 12:31:49 Subject: Re: Cabin Table (was Pine Blotch) Likewise late: Color opposites red<->green (Christmas) yellow<-> purple (Easter) orange <-> Fightin' Illini! The other way to remember is 3 primary colors are red, yellow, and blue. The opposite of each is the mixture of the other two. Wood finishes tend to use the artist's palette of wood tones: raw & burnt umber (dark green & dark red) raw & burnt sienna (light yellow & dark red) french ochre (yellow) cordovan (purple) van dyke brown (black-brown) http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/ColorTheory.html Steven Longley wrote: > but the orange was still too pronounced. > > Steve Sorry to jump in so late, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158761 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-28 13:11:28 Subject: Re: Cabin Table (was Pine Blotch) Kirk & Keith, Thanks for the input on color wheel theory. I’ve been hesitant to add another layer of gel stain for fear of it going too dark and muddy. After reading through the Homestead Finishing Site, I went up to my local Woodcraft store at lunch to invest in some blue TransTint and dewaxed blonde shellac. I also devoured the Woodfinishing Supply information when I returned. I’ll do some experimenting this evening and report back. A bit of blue may be just what I need to cancel out the orange. Steve in Dallas Lets Just Say (TMPL) That I’m trying to put theory into practice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158762 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-28 15:01:20 Subject: Re: a couple of reminders Steve Longley wrote: Thanks Gary... That is a method of checking a square > that I had not thought of... of course this only works in the "feet & > inches world" and only on squares that have legs of 24" & 16", > respectively. Hi Steve-- I've often thought that a square with a leg eighteen and the other 24" would be handy; that one would be 30" across the points and what would be easier to check than that? I don't know what world has framing squares and ain't a "feet and inches" world, but someone canny enough to work with cubits or microns could probably do the math on their particular peculiar square. The squaw of the hippopotamus equals the sons of the squaws of the other two hides. Set fire to any shavings yet? EMWTK....GAM in Seattle How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158763 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-28 19:52:37 Subject: Re: Cutting Masonite Jim McVicar wrote: > I'm looking for tips or advice on how to cut the masonite. Turn 'er rough side up on the horses, snap the chalk line for the cut, cramp on yer batten parallel to the chalk line a distance inboard from the line equal to the distance between the edge of the saw's sole plate and a tooth of the saw set towards the batten (ya shoulda wrote it on the saw a'ready) and run yer 9" tungsten tipped Hitachi power saw along the batten, set so that the teeth but no more of the saw blade protrude beneath the undersurface and smooth the upper arris with yer Stanley holes-in-the-sole rasp. Bewdy! Orta fit great. Doan saw yer horses! Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158764 ---- From: "Joe Parker" Date: 2006-03-28 17:12:03 Subject: Re: Cutting Masonite If you're willing to burn electrons, take the easy way out. Treat it like formica. Cut it proud, mount on bench and flush rout the edges. Joe Parker Los Gatos, CA ____________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158765 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-28 17:21:48 Subject: Re: Re: Cabin Table (was Pine Blotch) Subtitle: Blue & Orange does make Brown! Thanks to a “color wheel intervention” earlier in the day by bros. Kirk & Keith, who set me on the righteous path of the finishing art, my cabin table is now much less orange. This transformation is thanks to a couple of applications of blue tinted blonde shellac. The color shift is a bit subtle in the photo, but much more evident in person. If you pull the photos up side-by-side you can see the shift to brown. Here is the latest photo on Galoot Image Central. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3769 The series of photos can be seen at: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=339 Unfortunately, I can’t provide proportions since I made up the solution in stages and it sort of went like this – a couple of drops, a bit more, a lot more… a bit more… oh h*ll how can another dash hurt. Anyway, had I used the proverbial “green cup” to measure precisely, it’s been pointed out that since your green cup and my green cup are different anyway it would make no difference. One bit of information that may help is that I ended up making the solution a lot more blue than I thought I would have to. So, thanks again to everyone for their help. Steve in Dallas "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne" - The Craftsman ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158766 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-28 21:22:27 Subject: Apprenticeship Part 3 Being the part about benches, tools, money and perks! The first day in the new shop was the day I was allowed to build myself a bench. It had to be a copy of the 2 existing ones and was 12’ x 3’ x 3’. 3 leg frames with 2" x 6" rails and 4" x 4" legs mortise and tenon construction. The top was 2/ 2" x 12"s separated with a 1" x 12" to form a shallow well in the centre. Rebates on the bottom edges of the 2" x 12"s held the 1" x 12" in place and allowed for movement. 2" x 10" cheeks, the full length both sides, were dadoed around the legs and screwed, glued and plugged to the edges of the top boards. 2 x 6 bottom rails were again dadoed around the leg frames but on the inside of the legs, to provide a support for shelves and tool storage. Finally, a new Record vise was fitted and I was all set! Tools: I was the proud recipient of some good tools when my uncle was killed at work. He had started as an air frame rigger between the wars and most of his kit was supplied by the R.A.F. He worked on the wood and canvas bi-planes that were the mainstay of Britain’s air force up until WW2. After demob he worked for the local municipality as a carpenter. The tools I received included a wood smoother (2 3/8” blade), a Marples M5 jack plane, several chisels (2 pig stickers) and a mallet made from a boxwood croquet hammer. A Disston crosscut and a Spear & Jackson dovetail saw were the jewels! Also, there was a marking gauge and a 9” Marples rosewood square and other small tools, screwdrivers etc. All had been thoroughly scrutinized and approved at the start of my employment with the sage advice that “good tradesmen owned good tools and knew how to use and look after them” This gem has always stayed with me and I always asked to see a prospective employee’s tool box and tools as a deciding factor in their future employment when I became my own boss later on. I got a weekly tool allowance, and it was allowed to accumulate until there was enough cash to pay for planes and other tools that met my financial status. There used to be a tool store at Clapham that bought tool boxes from carpenter/joiner’s widows for a set price of £5 ($20) and they would then part out the tools and offer them at a very large profit to apprentices and craftsmen. It meant that someone beginning a trade could afford good quality tools at less than new prices. Sometimes a real gem like a Norris smoothing plane or shoulder plane could be snapped up by a craftsman looking to improve his kit. The gems always got snapped up long before I got there on a Saturday morning accompanied by one of my mentors to make sure I spent my allowance wisely. The close proximity of Hamptons at Vauxhall meant there were always lots of buyers with more disposable income than me. Wages in 1961 for my 2nd year were 2 shillings and 3 pence per hour (around 45 cents). After tax and other deductions I brought home £2 17 shillings, and 6 pence (about $10.50) We worked 44 hours over 5 1/2 days. The last hour on Friday was used for sharpening and tool clean up. Saturday morning was mostly for “Government” jobs and the making of shop aids. Each year at the Woodworking Show at Earls Court we would be given a cute little knick knack of some kind by a trade rep. which would become the pattern for shop built Xmas presents for all the employees, including the owners, and their family members. One year it was a small teak jewelery box; another year a puzzle in the shape of the Eiffel Tower. These gifts were normally a mass production thing that would be broken down into small components so each individual did a specific task and then a joint effort to assemble, finish and wrap to go under the company Xmas tree. Of course it was all done on Saturday mornings! To be continued................ Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158767 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-03-28 20:34:20 Subject: Re: Raised bed final plan..... two suggestions: 1. Use those galvanized corner braces (made for joists) on the outside of the corners. The corners get quite a bit of pressure and that is where they tend to get soft from rot first. Nails and screws tend to spring. My second set was with the braces and they work fine. 2. I made my first beds 4' wide -- big error. I can't reach across them to weed, plant, etc. Two narrower ones work out much better than one wide one. If you don't walk on the bed you don't need to till it each year. John > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158768 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-29 03:57:39 Subject: Re: Incorrigible Hey Scott, Kinda got some Chaplin's Patent flavor to it...but with a bit of salsa!! Very cool. Some guy's gonna find this fifty years from now, and there's gonna be a debate over the maker. Keep it up. And keep posting those photos. -Wayne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158769 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-28 21:14:29 Subject: Re: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Tuesday 28 March 2006 12:20 pm, Keith Mealy wrote: > If it's the ones I saw once, they made a night stand > with a router only. Cutoffs, rips, miters, you name > it. > > Wazzat, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, > everything looks like a nail." Yeah, they were cutting holes with a router instead of using a drill. I thought it was interesting as you could toss an auger bit in a brace and drill holes fairly easily, yet these guys built a "jig" so they could route a hole...interesting concept...:-/ I agree, when the only tool you have is a hammer...it all reminds of an old Groucho Marx episode of his TV show (I think it was called "You Bet Your Life"). A beautiful blonde Sweedish woman comes on Groucho asked what she does, does she work, does she have kids...etc...she said, I have 8 kids. He chimed out, "8 KIDS!!!!", and she replied, "yes, I love kids...". He said, "Lady, I love my cigar, but I take it out of my mouth once in a while...". I think the same applies here...in some type of galoot way... Moral of the story, never settle or use only one tool specific, a lot of tools were created for a specific reason. Hand tools present more than one way to solve a given problem. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158770 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-28 23:24:59 Subject: Re: Re: The Woodworking Channel The router fellows have found a way to make a living from a single tool. That is actually pretty clever when you think about it. If I had thought of it first, I would have done the same thing. I haven't looked lately, but I believe I own 7 of these monsters. They were part of a mass purchase of an entire shop, and I never sell anything. I think I actually used one of them a time or two after I spent about $1000 on a mess of Leigh jigs, which now sit abandoned in a big dovetailed box made especially for them and by them. I haven't opened that box in years either. Since my oldtools epiphany. "But that was long ago, and now my inspiration, is the sawdust of a saw............." (Galoot version of "Stardust.") :>) I like the version by Billy Ward and The Dominoes. (Oldies but Goodies.) On Mar 28, 2006, at 9:14 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Tuesday 28 March 2006 12:20 pm, Keith Mealy wrote: >> If it's the ones I saw once, they made a night stand >> with a router only. Cutoffs, rips, miters, you name >> it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158771 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-29 10:01:17 Subject: Re: a couple of reminders gary may wrote: > Steve Longley wrote: > Thanks Gary... That is a method of checking a square > >>that I had not thought of... of course this only works >>in the "feet & inches world" and only on squares that >>have legs of 24" & 16", respectively. > > > Hi Steve-- > I've often thought that a square with a leg eighteen and the other > 24" would be handy; that one would be 30" across the points and what > would be easier to check than that? Of course, this means the accuracy of the angular checking is dependant on the accuracy of the arm lengths. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158772 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 01:12:03 Subject: Re: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Tuesday 28 March 2006 11:24 pm, James Thompson wrote: > The router fellows have found a way to make a living from a single > tool. That is actually pretty clever when you think about it. If I had > thought of it first, I would have done the same thing. I don't know. I more admire the way Pat Warren was able to do that. http://www.patwarren.com/ At least he's got class. > I haven't looked lately, but I believe I own 7 of these monsters. They > were part of a mass purchase of an entire shop, and I never sell > anything. I think I actually used one of them a time or two after I > spent about $1000 on a mess of Leigh jigs, which now sit abandoned in a > big dovetailed box made especially for them and by them. I haven't > opened that box in years either. Since my oldtools epiphany. I'll offer you some advice, and it's free, so it's worth everything you pay for it. Sell that stuff on ebay. Sell it and buy old tools with the money. I wouldn't be surprised if that was mostly what sells...;-) There's a lot of cool tools out there, take your $$$s and go hit some fleas or 'bay it. Dump that stuff before something newer and better comes out. Leigh stuff should demand good $$$s. You're sittin' on ol' tools funds my friend! Or buy lumber with it, you can't really have too much lumber, can 'ya?;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158773 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-29 09:38:17 Subject: Shepard Tools Anyone know anything about the closing of Shepard Tools? Its been going around some of the other woodworking forums. It's a shame if its true, sounds like it is. Now, I wonder what will happen to the several hundred I paid them for a kit that I have never received..... Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158774 ---- From: Bill Webber Date: 2006-03-29 11:03:14 Subject: Re: Shepard Tools Here's a link that confirms your observation: http://www.taunton.com/FWN/ToolGuide/ToolGuideArticle.aspx?id=25620 Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/wWebber/ Yarrow, Gary wrote: >Anyone know anything about the closing of Shepard Tools? Its been going >around some of the other woodworking forums. It's a shame if its true, >sounds like it is. Now, I wonder what will happen to the several >hundred I paid them for a kit that I have never received..... > > >Gary > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To change your subscription options: >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158775 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-03-29 11:05:05 Subject: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? GGs, Before attempting to sharpen the POS (piece of, uh, poop, Jeff) gent's saw I've been using to learn how to cut dovetails, I called a couple folks to see what rake angle they suggest. My local mentor (who has a pair of IT dovetail saws, works of art they are) said he uses 0-deg rake, and I found reference on the net that suggested the same. I called Lie-Neilsen and found they use a 5-deg rake. Since I really suck at dovetails, I'm leaning towards 5-deg instead of zero so the saw is easier to start. Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail saw rakes? Anybody know what rake the IT saws came with originally? Yes, I'll get a real dovetail saw once I decide I like cutting them, but right now I can't justify $100 for a saw I don't even know how to use yet! Thanks for all your guidance, Steve, in Howell NJ, where it's going to be bee-you-T-ful for the next couple days! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158776 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-29 08:07:44 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship Part 3 Very interesting Peter.. thanks for sharing this story with us. Among all the interesting information, one thing struck a familiar note – the part about the workbench construction: --- Peter Hyde wrote: > The top was 2/ 2" x 12"s separated with a 1" x 12" > to form a shallow well in the centre. Paul Sellers at Homestead Heritage near Waco, TX uses a very similar top design for his workbenches. IIRC, Paul apprenticed in the Manchester area. Since I’ll be down there next week, I’ll have to ask him about the design. You can see photos of the workbenches on Roy Griggs’ nicely done website at: http://tinyurl.com/zmw3p Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158777 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-29 11:16:48 Subject: RE: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? You don't have to know how to use it. Just open yourself up to the force, and it will teach you. (The voices you'll hear belong to Pete Taran and Patrick Leach.) Tom Ellis IT# 134 > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:05 AM > To: OldTools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? > > Yes, I'll get a real dovetail saw once I decide I like > cutting them, but > right now I can't justify $100 for a saw I don't even know how to use > yet! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158778 ---- From: "Kaye, Danny" Date: 2006-03-29 17:20:20 Subject: RE: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? I tend to use Japanese saws for dovetails, and most other things, the advantage being the incredibly fine kerf and the ease of obtaining high accuracy. Danny Kaye Course leader Multimedia tel: 0115 8482231 mobile: 07968113686 -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS Sent: 29 March 2006 17:05 To: OldTools@r... Subject: [OldTools] Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? GGs, Before attempting to sharpen the POS (piece of, uh, poop, Jeff) gent's saw I've been using to learn how to cut dovetails, I called a couple folks to see what rake angle they suggest. My local mentor (who has a pair of IT dovetail saws, works of art they are) said he uses 0-deg rake, and I found reference on the net that suggested the same. I called Lie-Neilsen and found they use a 5-deg rake. Since I really suck at dovetails, I'm leaning towards 5-deg instead of zero so the saw is easier to start. Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail saw rakes? Anybody know what rake the IT saws came with originally? Yes, I'll get a real dovetail saw once I decide I like cutting them, but right now I can't justify $100 for a saw I don't even know how to use yet! Thanks for all your guidance, Steve, in Howell NJ, where it's going to be bee-you-T-ful for the next couple days! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158779 ---- From: Keith Mealy Date: 2006-03-29 09:53:55 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I spent a long weekend with Pat Warren a few years back. We both did presentations at the same conference . He was the "keynote" and I was less featured. If I recall, I did a presentation on how to cut bevel angles for n-sided polygons, with n being an uncommon number > 4. I think for my presentation, n=31, just to prove the point at the reach of absurdity. The point was to use trigonometry to measure the legs for the angle instead of trying to determine degrees to three places. He watched my presentation with interest and said, "Oh, you're a t@b... s@w guy." That had never occured to me up to that point, but I mentally agreed. He went on to say, "Never used one myself, I don't know how they work." Back to the original post, reach for the right tool for the job and make your life easier. On Tuesday 28 March 2006 11:24 pm, James Thompson wrote: > The router fellows have found a way to make a living from a single > tool. That is actually pretty clever when you think about it. If I had > thought of it first, I would have done the same thing. I don't know. I more admire the way Pat Warren was able to do that. http://www.patwarren.com/ At least he's got class. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158780 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-29 11:13:00 Subject: chisel geometry GGs- I had a bit of a sharpening epiphany in the shop yesterday and it brought up a reasonably important point that I have not seen discussed here - nor do I address it in the sharpening classes I teach (yet, anyway). I recently acquired a Buck brothers square sided socket firmer chisel in one of the few sizes I don't have and decided it was a keeper, despite having a fairly bad handle. So I went through the usual steps in bringing it back. Made sure the tip was brought back to square, did a hollow grind to 25 degrees, worked the back all the way up through the grits, and started to work on the bevel. Here is where the problem arose. I started out working freehand since it is easy enough to "click" a hollow ground edge into place on the stone, but something just didn't look right after a while. When looking at the end of the chisel, the arris was tiny on one end but thicker on the other. So I switched to the Veritas jig and set it up for the proper angle, and went to work on the coarse stone. Instead of creating a flat (or a pair of flats) evenly on the bevel, the flat was proceeding diagonally across the bevel from lower right to upper left, still with one side of the arris much thicker. I examined the chisel to see if it was twisted in some way, but no. So I stopped and applied a bit of thought to the problem and decided that the only reasonable cause of this behavior would be if the chisel was actually thicker on one side. It would have to be quite significant, and when measured this was indeed the case. One edge of the chisel was about 1 mm thicker than the other. The reason this totally messes up the geometry of the arris is pretty obvious if you stop to think about it. Clearly, when you flatten the back (which some would call the face), it is its own reference. But all the jigs we use - Veritas, General, etc. - are referenced to the "opposite" side of the chisel. That is, the surface opposite the back, where the logo is usually stamped. Even the grinding jigs are this way. It does not matter if you use a high end machine like a Tormek or a LapSharp, or just a hand cranked grinder like mine (with Veritas grinding jig). Since all these jigs hold the chisel bevel-down, they are all referenced to the opposite side of the chisel. Normally this is not a problem, since the two faces of the chisel are exactly parallel. In this case, someone had ground the back flat but out of parallel so the chisel was not "square." The result of all of this was that the arris, instead of coming to zero thickness all the way across, became wedge-shaped. It was really easy enough to see in the case of this chisel just using the naked (OK, with corrective lenses) eye. The solution was simple. I just reground the back to be not only flat but parallel with the help of some electrons. So much for the mirror finish I had put on it, but it clearly was never going to work without this fix. Sort of amazing that in all the dozens of chisels I have ever sharpened in my life, I have never run into this phenomenon before. But when you get a bunch of old tools that have unknown origin and have clearly been abused as some of the other tools in the box were, you really need to check for this possibility or you will waste a good deal of time in rehabbing the tool. I used a micrometer (B & S #11) to let me know when I had things back in order and could restart the sharpening process. Live and learn, and I hope this saves someone from making the same mistake I did. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158781 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 11:15:58 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? On Wednesday 29 March 2006 08:05 am, Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS wrote: > Before attempting to sharpen the POS (piece of, uh, poop, Jeff) gent's > saw I've been using to learn how to cut dovetails, I called a couple > folks to see what rake angle they suggest. My local mentor (who has a > pair of IT dovetail saws, works of art they are) said he uses 0-deg > rake, and I found reference on the net that suggested the same. I > called Lie-Neilsen and found they use a 5-deg rake. Since I really suck > at dovetails, I'm leaning towards 5-deg instead of zero so the saw is > easier to start. > > Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail > saw rakes? I thought LN used 8 degrees, and Adria uses 4 degrees. Adria is a more agressive saw, I'm told (I don't own one). Opinions and preference vary from 0-8 degrees. I happen to like 8 degrees for all around, it will work in most of the harder woods well, and softwoods. The LN saws are a bit tough to start, and Mike Wenzloff thought this could be due to the file used at LN, and the way it leaves such a large gullet. However, I did try an older IT saw that Pete made prior to LN taking over and it wasn't nearly as difficult to start (belonged to Tom Holloway). The way the saw performs and feels to you will be effected by the rake. > Anybody know what rake the IT saws came with originally? I think they were 8 degrees, but not sure. Maybe someone who owns one can tell you. > Yes, I'll get a real dovetail saw once I decide I like cutting them, but > right now I can't justify $100 for a saw I don't even know how to use > yet! Your saw will be fine. You will be amazed at how well a saw will cut after a wee-bit of sharpening. A highly reccomended and rewarding experience. Lots of good sharpening info, vintagesaws.com, norsewoodsmith.com, wood central Bob Smalser has a good tutorial, and don't forget Richard Brendler's old saw FAQ either, great info there. > Thanks for all your guidance, > Steve, in Howell NJ, where it's going to be bee-you-T-ful for the next > couple days! We've been stuck with rain out on the west coast for quite a while now. I thought it never rains in California?:-/ -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158782 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 11:26:19 Subject: Re: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Wednesday 29 March 2006 09:53 am, Keith Mealy wrote: > I spent a long weekend with Pat Warren a few years > back. We both did presentations at the same > conference . He was the "keynote" and I was less > featured. If I recall, I did a presentation on how to > cut bevel angles for n-sided polygons, with n being an > uncommon number > 4. I think for my presentation, > n=31, just to prove the point at the reach of > absurdity. The point was to use trigonometry to > measure the legs for the angle instead of trying to > determine degrees to three places. This would be fun to solve with a shooting board and hand planes. > He watched my presentation with interest and said, > "Oh, you're a t@b... s@w guy." That had never occured > to me up to that point, but I mentally agreed. He > went on to say, "Never used one myself, I don't know > how they work." Oh, I'm sure he has some "idea".;-) And while Pat uses a router for most things, my point was that his projects, like Chairs for instance, look way nicer than the ones those router workshop stooges were making, but that's a matter of taste. Better yet are the chairs I see some of you galoots making, the windsor back style (those are great), or craftsman style rockers, etc... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158783 ---- From: "Ed O'Riordan" Date: 2006-03-29 14:39:24 Subject: RE: chisel geometry The newer Veritas Mk. II Honing guide registers off the back of the chisel or blade. From the web site, third paragraph down "The clamping mechanism registers on the face of the blade (the unbevelled side), and is designed to accept flat and tapered blades, as well as blades with irregular geometry." Can be seen at http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap Ed O' -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Ken Greenberg But all the jigs we use - Veritas, General, etc. - are referenced to the "opposite" side of the chisel. That is, the surface opposite the back, where the logo is usually stamped. Even the grinding jigs are this way. It does not matter if you use a high end machine like a Tormek or a LapSharp, or just a hand cranked grinder like mine (with Veritas grinding jig). Since all these jigs hold the chisel bevel-down, they are all referenced to the opposite side of the chisel. Normally this is not a problem, since the two faces of the chisel are exactly parallel. -Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158784 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-29 14:40:52 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? Steve wants to know: >Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail >saw rakes? I find it's pretty tough to nail an *exact* rake angle, but around 5-10 degrees works well for me. I shoot for 15-20 degrees for my crosscuts. >don't forget Richard Brendler's >old saw FAQ either, great info there. Ahem. Who was that again? -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158785 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-29 11:38:25 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? On 29 Mar 2006 at 11:15, Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Anybody know what rake the IT saws came with originally? > > I think they were 8 degrees, but not sure. Maybe someone who owns one > can tell you. Anyone who can measure the rake on a 15 point saw has my sincere admiration. I just tried it using a very small bevel gauge, and there's just no way to accurately line it up with the teeth. They're too small. My memory is probably worse than my eyes, but I don't recall every knowing this detail. Probably I still have the literature that came with the saw when I got it from Pete, but I don't recall the rake angle being specified. Probably the only real way to know the answer is for Pete to see these messages and respond. Sorry to hear that they aren't being made as well any more, which makes me even more protective of mine. One of the great advantages of the IT saw is that it takes zero effort to start on end grain. You don't need to pull it back first, just lay it on the wood and start pushing. That's how I know when it's getting dull, because this stops working. I have resharpened mine, but I just follow the existing teeth for rake. Easy enough to do freehand on this saw as it just needs an occasional touch-up. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158786 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 12:02:07 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? On Wednesday 29 March 2006 11:38 am, Ken Greenberg wrote: > On 29 Mar 2006 at 11:15, Alan DuBoff wrote: > > > Anybody know what rake the IT saws came with originally? > > > > I think they were 8 degrees, but not sure. Maybe someone who owns one can > > tell you. > > Anyone who can measure the rake on a 15 point saw has my sincere > admiration. OptiVisor, 2.5x magnification!;-) The reason I said 8 degrees is that Pete reccomends 8 degrees on his site, although his preference for himself is to use 4 degrees as I recall reading. I think he would file 8 degrees for other folks, not sure. > Probably the only real way to know the answer is for Pete to see these > messages and respond. Yep, the OP could contact Pete directly also. Pete has been very helpful to me and has answered and exchange mail promptly. A fine galoot on anyone's standards, IMO. > Sorry to hear that they aren't being made as well any more, which makes me > even more protective of mine. When they do come up on ebay occasionally, they sell for more than a LN saw. > One of the great advantages of the IT saw is > that it takes zero effort to start on end grain. You don't need to pull it > back first, just lay it on the wood and start pushing. That's how I know > when it's getting dull, because this stops working. I have resharpened > mine, but I just follow the existing teeth for rake. Easy enough to do > freehand on this saw as it just needs an occasional touch-up. This is not the case on most of the new LN dovetail saws. They seem difficult to start and cut coarsely. Interesting to note that in the video of Alan Peters with Rob Cosman, if anyone has seen it, Alan Peters comments on how coarse the saw is. While Peters seems to be going through dementia of sorts, it's great to see him cutting dovetails in that video. He didn't seem to appreciate how coarse the saw cut though. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158787 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-29 14:05:04 Subject: RE: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? Can you rest a small triangular file in the gullet? That would amplify the angle enough to measure it. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Ken Greenberg Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:38 PM To: Alan DuBoff; oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? Anyone who can measure the rake on a 15 point saw has my sincere admiration. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158788 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 12:07:04 Subject: Re: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? On Wednesday 29 March 2006 11:40 am, Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy) wrote: > >don't forget Richard Brendler's > >old saw FAQ either, great info there. > > Ahem. Who was that again? Ooops, a rustfull of appologies to Ralph for that fat finger... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158789 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 12:22:11 Subject: level bubbles I recentely got a decent old level, which is missing one of the bubbles. Any galoots have any extra bubbles or know where one might find one? Do most of the Stanley levels use the same bubbles does anyone know? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158790 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-29 15:37:07 Subject: Re: level bubbles At 03:22 PM 3/29/2006, Alan DuBoff wrote: >I recentely got a decent old level, which is missing one of the bubbles. > >Any galoots have any extra bubbles or know where one might find one? > >Do most of the Stanley levels use the same bubbles does anyone know? Yeah, they were glass and had liquid in them! Other than than, they had a bunch of different sizes. Which level is it? Most of them these days, I can get more for the bubbles than I can the levels. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158791 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-29 15:07:49 Subject: Re: level bubbles Stanley has a number of vials. You would need to know the model of your level. See http://stores.stanleytools.com/store/category.aspx?&Page=1&Sort=1&catid=1537 You can order from Lori Gaucher at goucher@s... Regards, Huck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan DuBoff" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: [OldTools] level bubbles >I recentely got a decent old level, which is missing one of the bubbles. > > Any galoots have any extra bubbles or know where one might find one? > > Do most of the Stanley levels use the same bubbles does anyone know? > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158792 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-29 16:40:40 Subject: Saw Sharpening After some trials and tribulations the Disston IMP is finally done. For my first try at handsaw sharpening I am pleased. The saw cuts clean and tracks true. Now I need to get my thoughts compiled into some kind logical order and I will post a page on this venture to my website It will most likely be a week or so as I am very busy these days. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158793 ---- From: "Ed in Ottawa" Date: 2006-03-29 18:52:52 Subject: Re: level bubbles Humbly offered to this Great August Gathering that is the Porch....... The Ne Plus Ultra of replacement vials: http://www.wamoyer.com/ Starrett also stocks replacement vials for many of their products which could be subverted to other plots. AND (drumroll........) from over in my corner of the Porch (photographica 1880-1980's), many view cameras (Plate cameras Jeff) have built-in level vials which are available from camera kit suppliers such as: http://www.jbhphoto.com/level.htm The offering there would be a nice easy start to a new, Galoot-made level in your favourite wood. (Usual trite "no affiliation" disclaimer appended here) And now back to your regularly scheduled programming, sans e*&ctrikal router comedy duos................................. regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158794 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-29 20:25:50 Subject: Re: a couple of reminders Gary gave us a way to check a 24 x 16 inch square: > when I spanned across the corners ... the number > came back: > Twenty Eight and Twenty Seven Thirty-Seconds. There > it was. We used > to say "28 and 27", back when I was around people > who knew and cared. > ..... Just remember 28 and 27, and you're home and > dry. And if your > square AIN'T square, it's no good like it is now, so > whang it. Interesting, as it works for a 24 x 16 square .. but just out of curiosity, when and why were squares standardized on this combination of leg lengths? Is 33º41' a standard angle for roof trusses (obviously corresponding to a run of 12' and a rise of 8') and is its complement of 66º19' common for stairs? I have an Eagle #2 tapered square with legs measuring 24 x 17 that I gather is probably pre-Civil War (that's in the US, Jeff, as yours was way earlier). I'm reasonably certain that in 2 dimensions in our universe it would be quite out of square if the points actually measured "28 and 27" across, but would be OK if they measured 29" +26.25/64ths if somebody had a scale in their tool kit that could read that accurately. But as this leg combination seems to be a little rare, there must not have been much long-term popular demand for angles of 35º19' or 55º41', or at least a square that could produce them without using the scales. Could it be that the carpenters settled on 24 x 16, instead of 24 x 17, as it yielded a check dimension that was much easier to both remember and measure? Nahht likely, I say. More likely it was the result of lumber lengths being standardized at 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 ft? My great grandfather the carpenter that likely used this Eagle square probably could have told me the answer, but I'm 79 yrs too late on asking. Anybody know? Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158795 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-03-29 21:21:11 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS wrote: > GGs, > > Before attempting to sharpen the POS (piece of, uh, poop, Jeff) gent's > saw I've been using to learn how to cut dovetails, I called a couple > folks to see what rake angle they suggest. My local mentor (who has a > pair of IT dovetail saws, works of art they are) said he uses 0-deg > rake, and I found reference on the net that suggested the same. I > called Lie-Neilsen and found they use a 5-deg rake. Since I really suck > at dovetails, I'm leaning towards 5-deg instead of zero so the saw is > easier to start. > Well, if you hand file the saw and aim for just a little off of 0 degrees rake, you'll get from 0 to maybe 8 from tooth to tooth (if the teeth are leetle, leetle teeth). And the tooth-to-tooth spacing will be slightly irregular. This will make for a real sweet starting saw because teeth that are at a precise rake angle and very regular in spacing will make for sort of a 'standing wave' pattern when you are trying to start the cut. So the kerf will initially have regularly spaced depressions that 'trap' the teeth on the push stroke. You can mitigate this by barely holding the saw when you are starting the cut, no down pressure. My Pete Taran IT saw is like the latter case. The Jackson and Disston saws that I have filed by hand are easy to start and don't seem to give up any speed in sawing. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158796 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-03-29 22:22:15 Subject: RE: a couple of reminders Charlie asks: > Interesting, as it works for a 24 x 16 square .. but > just out of curiosity, when and why were squares > standardized on this combination of leg lengths? Can't say for sure, but would take a wild guess that the 24 side is the length it is because it's an even two feet and easy to work with. The 16 side happens to coincide with the standard distance between centers for wall studs, making it easy and quick for a carpenter to use when laying out walls. The nifty reminder for checking square for these two dimensions might be a handy coincidence. When in doubt, I always look for an explanation that makes things easier, quicker, and/or more economical for those who routinely used the tools. The framing square was, as far as I know, used more for carpentry than cabinet making. Chuck Myers, speculating at 5,000+ miles from home this week... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158797 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-29 22:37:11 Subject: Giant sawnuts GG Was in Baltimore (East Coast of US city, Jeff) and was on business about 1/4 mile from Fort McHenry (military fort made famous in the war of 1812, Jeff, but then you know that) so I stopped in when I was done working. A nice presentation with a beautiful view of the Baltimore harbor. The Fort was used up until WWI, and they still have a bunch of big guns dated about the Civil War (American Civil War, early 1860's, Jeff). Some of these guns took a 440 pound ball and threw it 3 miles, so they are big. They are mounted on a giant pin and they spin in a circle around that pin. There are 3 pairs of iron wheels that are set cross wise to the fame of the gun so that they help it spin in that circle. There are then iron "tracks" that are laid in a circle so that each pair of wheels can ride on metal and not on the stone base of the gun. Each of these tracks is about 1" thick and 5-6" across, and every 1-1/2 feet or so they are bolted to the stone base. Looks like they must have set bolts into the stone with lead or wood plugs, and because they didn't want the nut holding down the track to protrude above the level of the track, they used giant iron split nuts. These babies were 1-1-1/2" across and looked just like sawnuts. Does anyone know of other applications for these things? I am imagining that small firearms must have had some. How about other machinery? Ed Minch Who also went to the B&O railroad (first American railroad, Jeff) museum and marveled at the art of the wooden coach builder. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158798 ---- From: "Pete Taran" Date: 2006-03-29 22:41:48 Subject: Rake (not leaves Jeff) Steve writes: >Anybody know what rake the IT saws came with originally? Yes...sure do. Started out at zero degrees (or 90 depending on your orientation). For a skilled sawyer, this is the best bet. However, for the uninitiated or those who have never used a saw filed this way before, I began to relax the rake to between 4-8 degrees depending on the batch I was running at the time. A little positive rake makes the saw much easier to start. If you are in this camp, I would suggest your consider this range. It will cut just a tad slower, but will jump around in the kerf less if you don't have a lot of experience in starting the cut and maintaining the proper pressure. Hope this helps Pete Taran (ex-IT saw meister) Vintage Saws on the web at(and the tools to maintain them): www.vintagesaws.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158799 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-03-30 00:14:52 Subject: RE: Rake (not leaves Jeff) Pete provides some stats on the original its: > Yes...sure do. Started out at zero degrees (or 90 depending on your > orientation). For a skilled sawyer, this is the best bet. However, for the > uninitiated or those who have never used a saw filed this way before, I > began to relax the rake to between 4-8 degrees depending on the batch I was > running at the time. A little positive rake makes the saw much easier to > start. If you are in this camp, I would suggest your consider this range. > It will cut just a tad slower, but will jump around in the kerf less if you > don't have a lot of experience in starting the cut and maintaining the > proper pressure. As the custodian of IT #18 (meep, meep) I got the zero degree rake. As one of the uninitiated, it took a little getting used to, per Pete's observation, but it didn't take long to get the hang of it. The faster cut was either a boon or a bane, depending on how well I got it lined up to begin with. I started with the zero degree rake on my rip saws, mostly because that's what everything I read about sharpening said it should be, and I didn't know enough to experiment. I've been happy with the results/performance, so I've seen no need to change. Chuck Myers, enjoying early fall weather in the *really* deep South ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158800 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-29 20:19:23 Subject: Re: Giant sawnuts On Mar 29, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Michele Minch wrote: > > Each of these tracks is about 1" thick and 5-6" across, and every > 1-1/2 feet or so they are bolted to the stone base. Looks like they > must have set bolts into the stone with lead or wood plugs, and > because they didn't want the nut holding down the track to protrude > above the level of the track, they used giant iron split nuts. These > babies were 1-1-1/2" across and looked just like sawnuts. > > Does anyone know of other applications for these things? I am > imagining that small firearms must have had some. How about other > machinery? I don't mean to be picky, but my understanding of these things depends on the terminology used. Were these nuts actually split in half? Or were they what I understand to be spanner nuts. The saw nuts are not actually split. They are countersunk spanner nuts in the terminology I am accustomed to. I have seen and used spanner nuts in a lot of mechanical applications, always where the nut had to be flush with the surface, or slightly below surface. In some cases the spanner is a screwdriver looking tool (I often ground the center out of a drag link socket) with the center missing, (like those used on saws) or is a tool with 2 round projections to fit into holes drilled opposite each other in the nut. The tool is called a "spanner." The nut is a called a spanner nut. At least that is how I understand it. For info on drag link sockets, please consult Google. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158801 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 21:12:25 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Wednesday 29 March 2006 12:37 pm, you wrote: > Which level is it? I'm not completely sure. It's a Stanley, but it's not a 102, 103, or 104. It's got a 30 stamped in the wood, but I don't know if that has any significance or not. It has 2 round bubbles, err, 1 actual bubble..;-) And it has a level along the top. Both of the round bubbles have circular brass rings about 1" wide, 2.5" in diameter, and 7/8" center. The bubble looks to be about 1/4". I would prefer the Stanley 93, and want to get one to compliment this, to use as winding sticks. I was hoping the brass strip along the length of the 93 would contrast enough to work with this as winding sticks. The brass plates say Stanley Adjustable (top and bottom) and patented March 25, 90. The top plate says Stanely Rule & Level Co. blah-blah with some patent dates. Nice brass on the ends and the round bubbles point opposite ways, depending on how the level would be used. I like the 2 round levels, many like the 102, 103, and 104 seem to have only 1. Here was the ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6263355716 -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158802 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-29 21:19:32 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Wednesday 29 March 2006 03:52 pm, Ed in Ottawa wrote: > The Ne Plus Ultra of replacement vials: http://www.wamoyer.com/ A bunch of broken links, but interesting site. > Starrett also stocks replacement vials for many of their products which > could be subverted to other plots. One that fits that was similar would be preferred. Richard's email addy for Lori Gaucher might be the easy way to get one that fits, but not sure if the exact size, it look close to 1/4", the Stanley page had 3/8". > camera kit suppliers I wouldn't have thought of that one...;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158803 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-30 15:03:39 Subject: Sorby screwdriver Comrades in Rust, Fruit of the flea last weekend, where the pickings were negligible, included a London pattern ( I think) screwdriver with a 9 3/4" blade and a 6 1/4" handle sporting a 3/4" slotted brass ferrule. On the flat top section of the blade there is inscribed "I Sorby" and beneath this the legend, "cast steel". Near these marks there was an unintelligible (to me) set of marks which looked as if someone had practiced executing pot-hooks and crosses with a very fine graver or burin. The tanged blade was loose in its fitting but a couple of pieces of strategically placed toothpick cured this. The wood of the egg-domed and waisted handle with two turned rings is finely textured but I would not hazard a guess as to its species except to say that it reminds me a little of the timber in a thick-slabbed elm tabletop I once saw. It is quite a hefty screwdriver and I am pleased to have it although the tip had been ground a little awry and will require gentle remedial action. Is anybody out there able to make an informed guess as to the likely age of this tool and of the species of wood used in its handle? I paid A$2.00 for it. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158804 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-30 15:31:42 Subject: Re: chisel geometry Ken Greenberg writes: > I had a bit of a sharpening epiphany in the shop yesterday (snip) > decided that the only reasonable cause of > this behavior would be if the chisel was actually thicker on one side. It would > have to be quite significant, and when measured this was indeed the case. One > edge of the chisel was about 1 mm thicker than the other. Thanks for the information and warning, Ken. Yet again we have one of those "who'da thought?" cases where the gods conspire to go out of their way to frustrate the never-ending quest for squareness. It is taken that the side of the electron-killing wheel was utilized to achieve parallelism? Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158805 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-30 09:42:34 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? Alan DuBoff wrote: >>Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail >>saw rakes? > > > I thought LN used 8 degrees, and Adria uses 4 degrees. Adria is a more > agressive saw, I'm told (I don't own one). I asked TLN this question a while back; he stated on 24/11/2004 that the rake is 5 degrees, and the fleam 0 (aka pure rip). BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158806 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-30 09:48:40 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? HAlan DuBoff wrote: > On Wednesday 29 March 2006 08:05 am, Shine, Stephen C (Steve), > ALABS wrote: >>Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail >>saw rakes? > > > I thought LN used 8 degrees, and Adria uses 4 degrees. Adria is a more > agressive saw, I'm told (I don't own one). > > Opinions and preference vary from 0-8 degrees. > > I happen to like 8 degrees for all around, it will work in most of the > harder woods well, and softwoods. I sharpened a saw 8/8 (rake/fleam); it was rather pleasant to use, and the slight fleam made spotting the alternate teeth easier than a pure rip for re-sharpening. It's now in the hands of our own Scott Murman. > The LN saws are a bit tough to start, and Mike Wenzloff thought this > could be due to the file used at LN, and the way it leaves such a > large gullet. However, I did try an older IT saw that Pete made prior > to LN taking over and it wasn't nearly as difficult to start (belonged > to Tom Holloway). Hmm. Jeff Gorman points out that slightly blunt saws are easier to start (bu slower cutting). This may be a factor here. > > The way the saw performs and feels to you will be effected by > the rake. Yeah; rake has a strong effect (which is why I use an aid to keep it accurate). http://www.geocities.com/plybench/shop_projects.html#file_pointer BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158807 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-30 09:52:51 Subject: Re: level bubbles Ed in Ottawa wrote: > Humbly offered to this Great August Gathering that is the Porch....... > > The Ne Plus Ultra of replacement vials: http://www.wamoyer.com/ > > Starrett also stocks replacement vials for many of their products which > could be subverted to other plots. > > AND (drumroll........) from over in my corner of the Porch (photographica > 1880-1980's), many view cameras (Plate cameras Jeff) have built-in level > vials which are available from camera kit suppliers such as: > http://www.jbhphoto.com/level.htm The offering there would be a nice easy > start to a new, Galoot-made level in your favourite wood. > > (Usual trite "no affiliation" disclaimer appended here) http://www.toolbazaar.co.uk/Spares.asp#9 BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158808 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-30 09:59:05 Subject: Re: chisel geometry John Manners wrote: > Ken Greenberg writes: > > >>I had a bit of a sharpening epiphany in the shop yesterday (snip) >>decided that the only reasonable cause of >>this behavior would be if the chisel was actually thicker on one side. It > > would > >>have to be quite significant, and when measured this was indeed the case. > > One > >>edge of the chisel was about 1 mm thicker than the other. > > > Thanks for the information and warning, Ken. Yet again we have one of those > "who'da thought?" cases where the gods conspire to go out of their way to > frustrate the never-ending quest for squareness. It is taken that the side > of the electron-killing wheel was utilized to achieve parallelism? Some small chisels (e.g. 1/8 bevel edged, and some Japanese style DT chisels) have a small to negligible upper surface, which make the problem self-evident. The cure is (of course) to reference off the back; some honing jigs do this, notably the little Stanley 2-wheeler (which is far from perfect), the LV MkII, and my monster (actually my monster can work either way up ;-) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158809 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-30 01:20:02 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? On Thursday 30 March 2006 12:48 am, paul womack wrote: > I sharpened a saw 8/8 (rake/fleam); it was rather pleasant to use, > and the slight fleam made spotting the alternate teeth > easier than a pure rip for re-sharpening. I like this, this is halfway between a pure rip and traditional xcut (thinking that 15 degree rake and 22 fleam as that), 8/8 is somewhere in between. > Hmm. Jeff Gorman points out that slightly blunt saws are easier to start > (bu slower cutting). This may be a factor here. Yes, and even I know having an 8 degree rake makes a much less agressive cutting saw, but I'm willing to sacrifice that for the type of work I want to do with it. I'm thinking of joinery using 4/4 and 6/4 stock. I think more folks could sharpen their saws more often also. Some go for years without sharpening them. I just cut some purple heart that was like purple stone...I have other purple heart, not nearly as hard as this stuff. I am going to sharpen the saw with a light touchup after that stuff...This made a piece of hickory seem much softer, and hickory is fairly hard wood. So, there are a lot of factors that are involved in a saw, the rake, the thickness of the blade, the balance, as well as the hang of the handle. I know that many people use a fine rip saw to xcut joinery, and yes it does work. I happen to be from the school that feels a xcut saw is the right saw for cutting across the grain, period. For a working set of saws, one needs a rip and xcut of each size. This philosophy allows all galoots to own at least a dozen backsaws.;-) A pair of gent saws, 8" small joinery saws, 10" small tenon saws, 12" tenon saws, there's already 8 saws.;-) Sorry for ramblin'...joinery saws seem to be my weakness... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158810 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-30 19:43:55 Subject: Re: chisel geometry BugBear writes: > Some small chisels (e.g. 1/8 bevel edged, and some Japanese style DT chisels) > have a small to negligible upper surface, which make the problem > self-evident. > > The cure is (of course) to reference off the back; some honing jigs do this, > notably the little Stanley 2-wheeler (which is far from perfect), > the LV MkII, and my monster (actually my monster can work either way up ;-) Amen to those words regarding the "little Stanley 2-wheeler". Many years ago, when I thought I was missing out on something by not using an oilstone jig, I acquired my Stanley 81-050 complete with orange plastic appendages and proceeded to "unsquare" every iron I touched with it. I found that by meticulously working with engineer's square, pencil lines and a lot of squinting I could make it work passably and then realized that the setting-up time took longer than it took me to get a good edge using my old freehand methods and that repeating a bevel was an infinity of trials and errors. It remains as an item of curiosity at the back of one of my tool cupboards but, mindful of BugBear's enlightening advice, I might give it another try next time I have to sharpen a 1/8" chisel as these little buggers usually require me to sacrifice a bit of skin from my left middle finger on the stone as I press down on the top of the bevel. Or maybe I need a thinner finger. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158811 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-30 05:26:15 Subject: Re: chisel geometry Ken! You just destroyed one of the few known examples of the rare Buck Brothers self-skewing chisel! More seriously, it must have been a keeper to invest the time to re- grind and true it. Larry Ken Greenberg wrote: >GGs- > >I had a bit of a sharpening epiphany in the shop yesterday and it >brought up a reasonably important point that I have not seen discussed >here - nor do I address it in the sharpening classes I teach (yet, >anyway). I recently acquired a Buck brothers square sided socket firmer >chisel in one of the few sizes I don't have and decided it was a >keeper, despite having a fairly bad handle. So I went through the usual >steps in bringing it back. Made sure the tip was brought back to >square, did a hollow grind to 25 degrees, worked the back all the way >up through the grits, and started to work on the bevel. > >Here is where the problem arose. I started out working freehand since >it is easy enough to "click" a hollow ground edge into place on the >stone, but something just didn't look right after a while. When looking >at the end of the chisel, the arris was tiny on one end but thicker on >the other. So I switched to the Veritas jig and set it up for the >proper angle, and went to work on the coarse stone. Instead of creating >a flat (or a pair of flats) evenly on the bevel, the flat was >proceeding diagonally across the bevel from lower right to upper left, >still with one side of the arris much thicker. I examined the chisel to >see if it was twisted in some way, but no. So I stopped and applied a >bit of thought to the problem and decided that the only reasonable >cause of this behavior would be if the chisel was actually thicker on >one side. It would have to be quite significant, and when measured this >was indeed the case. One edge of the chisel was about 1 mm thicker than >the other. > >The reason this totally messes up the geometry of the arris is pretty >obvious if you stop to think about it. Clearly, when you flatten the >back (which some would call the face), it is its own reference. But all >the jigs we use - Veritas, General, etc. - are referenced to the >"opposite" side of the chisel. That is, the surface opposite the back, >where the logo is usually stamped. Even the grinding jigs are this way. >It does not matter if you use a high end machine like a Tormek or a >LapSharp, or just a hand cranked grinder like mine (with Veritas >grinding jig). Since all these jigs hold the chisel bevel-down, they >are all referenced to the opposite side of the chisel. Normally this is >not a problem, since the two faces of the chisel are exactly parallel. > >In this case, someone had ground the back flat but out of parallel so >the chisel was not "square." The result of all of this was that the >arris, instead of coming to zero thickness all the way across, became >wedge-shaped. It was really easy enough to see in the case of this >chisel just using the naked (OK, with corrective lenses) eye. The >solution was simple. I just reground the back to be not only flat but >parallel with the help of some electrons. So much for the mirror >finish I had put on it, but it clearly was never going to work without >this fix. > >Sort of amazing that in all the dozens of chisels I have ever sharpened >in my life, I have never run into this phenomenon before. But when you >get a bunch of old tools that have unknown origin and have clearly been >abused as some of the other tools in the box were, you really need to >check for this possibility or you will waste a good deal of time in >rehabbing the tool. I used a micrometer (B & S #11) to let me know when >I had things back in order and could restart the sharpening process. > >Live and learn, and I hope this saves someone from making the same >mistake I >did. > >-Ken > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158812 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-30 07:44:19 Subject: Re: Giant sawnuts Yup I've seen em too. Large and small. A particularly unwelcome sight when working on large grubby machinery. I've vandalized whatever sized driver they wanted to get them off. And sometimes resorted to cold chisels, acetylene torches and arc welders, welding a standard nut on to get something to hold onto. They were called spanners where I was too, but meanwhile every kind of wrench at all is called spanner in England, right? Drag link sockets were always the first try and we called them drag link sockets, except I still don't know what a drag link is? Unless we're talking the old term for the idler arm used to anchor the tie rod on vehicle steering. I've heard them called that. But if that's the case, I've swapped out plenty of idler arms and never needed a drag link socket even once. In fact, cutting them up for these odd countersunk nuts was the only mileage I ever got out of them. Old millwright/mechanic talk. I've got a full set of Barcalo Buffalo 1/2" drive, square sockets, both male and female. And those are -old- tools better believe. yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158813 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-30 11:10:44 Subject: Re: level bubbles At 12:12 AM 3/30/2006, Alan DuBoff wrote: >It's got a 30 stamped in the wood, but I don't know if that has any >significance or not. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item >It has 2 round bubbles, err, 1 actual bubble..;-) And it has a level >along the >top. That's a Stanley No 30 carpenters level. In reasonably decent shape (before Ebay killed the level market) those used to sell for $30 - $40. I'd try the Stanley replacement parts number that some one gave. I don't know that they still have the clear vials or not (might wind up with a greenie) I'm not sure what other levels could be cannibalized for a vial like that. A lot of the top bubbles were bedded in plaster and well getting that off ain't gonna be a whole lotta fun. Tony (with a whole self full of levels..ugh.........) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158814 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-30 17:37:52 Subject: Four-squaring with hand tools Dear Galoots, This week I had a business trip to the north of Portugal, where most of the wood business is based, and I took the oportunity to buy some boards. At the lumberyard I was alowed to pick the boards I wanted, which was very nice, but all the boards had some twist, bow or cup. Some where better than others and I picked the best ones. First question: Is this normal or should I be able to find boards that are dead flat? The stack of wood was just too big to go through.... Because I only have a jack plane (12" long) and a smothing plane (no jointer yet, I'm still looking for a nice one to come by) I do believe that making these boards flat won't be an easy task. Second question: What process would you recomend to make these boards flat? I need some pieces around 2 feet long, maybe a bit more. Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158815 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-03-30 11:59:19 Subject: Re: level bubbles Alan, looking for level glasses, wrote (in part): > >The brass plates say Stanley Adjustable (top and bottom) and patented March >25, 90. The top plate says Stanely Rule & Level Co. blah-blah with some >patent dates. As Tony pointed out, Stanley made lots of different sizes of level vials. These are listed in Stanley catalogues as "level glasses", and include Nos 208 "proved, clear fluid), 218 (cat's eye-dyed fluid) and 209 (ground). The 209 is probably what you need for your level. These came in sizes that ranged in length from 1" to 3 1/2", with diameters that went from 9/32 to 14/32". Finding the right size will mean removing the old vial and making accurate measurements. Then finding a new vial becomes a chore. Scavanging vials from junk levels is an exercise in labor intensity and heart (and vial) break. You may be able to get a new level glassl from Laurie, but there are two problems with this: 1. The age of your level appears to be right around the time when Stanley went from unmarked glasses, to those etched with two black lines, in which to center the bubble. If the good glass in your level has no lines etched on it, you will probably not be able to get a proper replacement from Stanley. 2. Mounting the new glass will require some pretty fancy work with plaster of Paris, and adjustment of the level for accuracy. To me this sounds like a lot of hassle for a $15 tool (plus shipping). But that is the nature of *B*y. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158816 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-30 09:14:28 Subject: Re: chisel geometry On 30 Mar 2006 at 15:31, John Manners wrote: > Thanks for the information and warning, Ken. Yet again we have one of those > "who'da thought?" cases where the gods conspire to go out of their way to > frustrate the never-ending quest for squareness. It is taken that the side > of the electron-killing wheel was utilized to achieve parallelism? Actually, it was done on a b*lt s*nd*r, applying a little bit more pressure on one edge than the other, as was taught to us by Ben Knebel of the (now departed) Shepard Tools. I would not normally even own one of these things, having done without one for 15 years. However, it was really necessary to make my Spiers replica infill shoulder plane. Besides, it was paid for by my standing around talking to people for two hours about hand planes at the local Woodcraft. I only use it for hand powered tool construction and maintenance, I promise. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158817 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-30 12:28:21 Subject: RE: Four-squaring with hand tools The issue is going to be, how thin is an acceptable resulting thickness? Limiting the length to about 2' will make things easier, though. With careful selection of 2' pieces, this will (one hopes) resolve most bow problems. If the cupping is not too severe, place the board convex side down, and plane diagonally with the jack, alternating left to right and vice-versa. When you cut all the way across, you're pretty flat. Turn the board over, and press in various locations with your hands to verify that there is no remaining twist. Then turn it back, and go with the grain with the jack then the smoother. If the cupping is so severe that this approach will leave you with a very thin board, consider ripping in half first. Once you are flat on one side for all boards, figure out what is the thinnest piece you will have left after flattening the convex sides, gauge that thickness on all pieces, and then repeat the diagonal planing on the convex sides, first to flatten, and then to plane to thickness (thinness?). NOTE: Depending on your bench setup, you may have to do some initial flattening in the middle of the convex side so that things are stable when that side is down. If the cupping isn't too bad, and you can use bench dogs at both ends of the board, you can probably skip this. And all the while, keep repeating to yourself, "I really don't need a jointer and thickness planer, I really don't. I'm just having too much fun doing it this way." Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Luis Martins > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:38 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Four-squaring with hand tools > At the lumberyard I was alowed to pick the boards I wanted, which was > very nice, but all the boards had some twist, bow or cup. Some where > better than others and I picked the best ones. > > Because I only have a jack plane (12" long) and a smothing plane (no > jointer yet, I'm still looking for a nice one to come by) I do believe > that making these boards flat won't be an easy task. > > Second question: What process would you recomend to make > these boards flat? > I need some pieces around 2 feet long, maybe a bit more. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158818 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-30 09:38:38 Subject: Re: level bubbles This is an ordinary wooden level? Not a high dollar collectible you really need to repair undetectibly with a perfect match vial? If so.......I'd just rob the nearest junker for a vial myself. Done it lots of times. As long as it was the same size vial or smaller no sweat. Plaster forgives all. The plaster setting adventure mostly requires the use of a full coffee pot and a pack of smokes for me. Waiting around for the plaster to thicken and set is the hardest part. See the bottom story here http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/levels.htm yours, Scott -- Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158819 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-30 09:59:05 Subject: Re: Giant sawnuts scott grandstaff wrote: > except I still don't know what a drag link is? Drag Link is a style of conveyor, frequently used for Bulk Solids Handling http://www.vav.nl/en/chain_conveyors/drag_link_conveyor_chains_di- n_8165.asp Why the heck they call that ratchet driven screwdriver bit a drag link socket is beyond me. I've had one for years, and always used it as a huge screwdriver (once). ¢¢ -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, where I learned alot about conveyors in the brewery, and working across the street from a quarry or three. Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158820 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-30 10:10:37 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Thursday 30 March 2006 08:10 am, Anthony Seo wrote: > That's a Stanley No 30 carpenters level. Ok, that's good to know, so the 30 is the model number. > In reasonably decent > shape (before Ebay killed the level market) those used to sell for $30 - > $40. I like that it had the brass rings around the round bubbles. I missed a solid ivory 12" rule, sold for $15. That's ridiculous for a piece of ivory. > I'd try the Stanley replacement parts number that some one gave. I > don't know that they still have the clear vials or not (might wind up > with a greenie) I'll do that. > I'm not sure what other levels could be cannibalized for a vial like > that. A lot of the top bubbles were bedded in plaster and well > getting that off ain't gonna be a whole lotta fun. I'll figure something out. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158821 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-30 10:25:13 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Thursday 30 March 2006 08:59 am, Sanford Moss wrote: > 1. The age of your level appears to be right around the time when Stanley > went from unmarked glasses, to those etched with two black lines, in which > to center the bubble. If the good glass in your level has no lines etched > on it, you will probably not be able to get a proper replacement from > Stanley. The other 2 bubbles on it do have lines to center, maybe I can get one from Stanley. It must be the 9/32" as it's close to 1/4". I'll have to try and get a more accurate setting. BTW, I was looking at the Godell-Pratt 4328 on your site, and that's more of what I was really looking for, but it seems hard to find decent levels with brass along the edges that don't for an quite a bit of $$$s. The Stanley 93 looks ok also, and what I'm trying to match up for use as winding sticks. I can see how difficult it could be on some levels to replace the level, but the holes are clean with no gunk/plaster on the one that is misssing on mine. I'll have to see. A very ornate 12" in ebony with a lot of ornate brass on it sold on *b*y for about $48, which seemed reasonable to me. This doesn't seem like a very popular section on *b*y, and I think this is where folks can find interesting tools with less bidding. > To me this sounds like a lot of hassle for a $15 tool (plus shipping). But > that is the nature of *B*y. Yes, and even without the 3rd bubble, this one actually does function as well or better than a 102. 103, or 104, which only have 1 round and 1 edge bubble as well. It's not a bad level, especially for $10 (shipping cost me $15;-). -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158822 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-30 13:26:23 Subject: Re: level bubbles At 01:10 PM 3/30/2006, Alan DuBoff wrote: >On Thursday 30 March 2006 08:10 am, Anthony Seo wrote: > > That's a Stanley No 30 carpenters level. > >Ok, that's good to know, so the 30 is the model number. > > I'm not sure what other levels could be cannibalized for a vial like > > that. A lot of the top bubbles were bedded in plaster and well > > getting that off ain't gonna be a whole lotta fun. Well all this yacking had me pull the one out that I have here (I think there is only one, they are all piled on a top shelf..I keep hoping they will evaporate or something like that). Now I don't have a clue as to when or where I bought this guy, it's been around for at least 3 or 4 years now. I decided to pull one of the covers and see how the level was mounted in there. http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/level1.jpg Now the giveaway that something was, shall we say amiss, was the face that one screw was a machine screw, the other was a wood screw. I lift off the cover to find.... http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/level2.jpg @(&^5@#$%^#$&*(( !!! I really don't think that is original Stanley duct tape in there! Plus the center ring is loose and those were soldered in place originally. The screws on the other one are pretty hootched so they ain't coming out. Note the shiny Phillips screws holding the cracked iron base in place as well. I really wish I could remember which one of the local SFB's I got this off of! So I might have a level bubble for sale............. Tony (is this REALLY all in a day's tools??? !!!) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158823 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-30 10:27:34 Subject: Re: level bubbles >From the archives, compliments of Mr. Anderson. A few days ago, someone inquired about where/how to get a level repaired. I know this contact has been mentioned before, but it may be worth repeating. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158824 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-30 10:29:08 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Thursday 30 March 2006 09:38 am, scott grandstaff wrote: > This is an ordinary wooden level? > Not a high dollar collectible you really need to repair undetectibly > with a perfect match vial? > If so.......I'd just rob the nearest junker for a vial myself. Done it > lots of times. As long as it was the same size vial or smaller no sweat. > Plaster forgives all. That was my plan, just that I don't want to buy another to rob the bubble, then have a extra level. I was only really wanting 2 decent ones to use as winding sticks. > The plaster setting adventure mostly requires the use of a full coffee > pot and a pack of smokes for me. Waiting around for the plaster to > thicken and set is the hardest part. Ok, I have some ice tea and a gord pipe, hopefully that will do! I should be pretty good at the part of the replacement!;-) > See the bottom story here > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/levels.htm Ah, nice Scott! I'll follow that. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158825 ---- From: Bob & Margaret Johnson Date: 2006-03-30 11:42:37 Subject: Re: level bubbles Bob & Margaret Johnson wrote: > Try these folks: > > Schiabaughs and Sons 1-800-346-9663. They don't have a web site but > they would be happy to send you a catalog. > > Bob > > Alan DuBoff wrote: > >>I recentely got a decent old level, which is missing one of the bubbles. >> >>Any galoots have any extra bubbles or know where one might find one? >> >>Do most of the Stanley levels use the same bubbles does anyone know? >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158826 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-30 11:10:13 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Thursday 30 March 2006 10:26 am, Anthony Seo wrote: > http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/level1.jpg Yes, that's the one. > http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/level2.jpg > > @(&^5@#$%^#$&*(( !!! LOL! Hey, that must be original. Stanley must have know the value in duct tape before the rest of the galoot world! You at least got me to take mine apart. Mine is just like yours of course, sans the duct tape and bubble. Screws are clean inside, not stripped and the inside is fairly clean. The bubble does just fit across the metal through the holes, same exact setup, same level. Thanks for showing that, and getting me to open it up, it shouldn't be hard to repair. I'll have to clean mine up, get the paint splatters off it... It probably didn't have any paint splatters on it, but the seller flung some on it before shipping it to me.;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158827 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-30 11:21:18 Subject: Re: Four-squaring with hand tools http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id- =101829&submit_thread=1#message Looking for a post called Re: Critique my technique (long) From Tom Holloway Dated 1/13/02 9:15 AM Here's his preface Sounds like an occasion to dust off a couple of items from the archive of OT Classics. Here is Richard Wilson's stock prep treatise from January '97 or thereabouts. Veterans (either on the list or at stock prep) can delete now. Anyone interested in galootish methods of stock prep may read futher. Tom Holloway Luis Martins wrote: >Second question: What process would you recomend to make these >boards flat? > > Gotta love them archives. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, where this file is still on my computer, due to its incredible significanc Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158828 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-30 15:06:10 Subject: Saw Maker Info Please While picking through my saw stash for my next victim I came across a maker I'm not familiar with. The blade is not clean so I don't know about an etch. The medallion is the deep dished type with split nits and it is marked "Basset Jarvis & Morris New Haven CT". Does anyone have any info on this maker? As always any help will be appreciated. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158829 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-30 13:46:00 Subject: RE: chisel geometry On 29 Mar 2006 at 14:39, Ed O'Riordan wrote: > The newer Veritas Mk. II Honing guide registers off the back of the > chisel or blade. From the web site, third paragraph down > > "The clamping mechanism registers on the face of the blade (the > unbevelled side), and is designed to accept flat and tapered blades, > as well as blades with irregular geometry." I think this is an improvement, but I see two problems. First, this addresses the problem only when honing. If you ever need to grind the chisel again, you don't use this jig (I wouldn't anyway). So you would still have the problem of grinding machines and their tool rests that reference off the opposite side, and now you have the problem of two jigs that reference off different sides of the chisel. Of course, if you flat grind (as opposed to hollow grind) your chisels and are content to do it only once and then just hone forever, then this is a solution. But flat grinding means that more metal must be removed to sharpen, and thus the process is slower. I admit that I probably only ever grind a chisel once. But I have seen recommendations that when the hollow grind disappears and the bevel is completely flat, you should go back to the grinder and restablish the hollow grind. Does anyone really do this? It's still a good idea for a jig, though. The second problem is that if the chisel is truly thicker on one side than the other, you are going to have a diagonal line somewhere. This jig would prevent that from happening at the arris, a good thing. But where the (relatively unimportant) "other end" of the bevel is located, then that line would be at a diagonal across the chisel. Certainly not esthetically pleasing, at least. It would look very odd. It just works so much better if the two sides are the same thickness. It's nice to see that jig designers understand the problem, though. If Lee Valley hadn't just sent me a new Mark I jig after I wore mine out to the point that it couldn't even be disassembled to replace the roller, I might consider one of these. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158830 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-30 17:04:54 Subject: Re: Saw Maker Info Please After a little scrapping the "etch" became readable. It is more like a stamping with only letters, no logo. In a semi circle BASSET JARVIS, in a straight line under this MORRIS, straight line under this NEW HAVEN CT straight line under this SPRING STEEL 12 WARRANTED. The blade appears to be of blue oxide steel and is 20" long. I will post some pics when it is clean. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rittner" To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: [OldTools] Saw Maker Info Please ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158831 ---- From: Scott Stager Date: 2006-03-30 16:35:48 Subject: Re: Giant sawnuts I goggled Drag link and found this cool site. Reads pretty academic, but has some neat animations. http://www.brockeng.com/mechanism/DragLink.htm The term "Drag Link" just applies to the particular example of mechanisms in this Four Bar Linkage class. Check out the final link to "second drag link mechanism". Hummmm, I think I feel a Rube Goldberg catapult down the pike. Then, back up to the "table" to get pointers to more. Darn, wish I still had my erector set. --Scott ------------------------------------------------- Scott Stager Columbia Missouri On Mar 30, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Kirk Eppler wrote: > > scott grandstaff wrote: > >> except I still don't know what a drag link is? > > Drag Link is a style of conveyor, frequently used for Bulk Solids > Handling > > http://www.vav.nl/en/chain_conveyors/ > drag_link_conveyor_chains_din_8165.asp > > Why the heck they call that ratchet driven screwdriver bit a drag > link socket is beyond me. I've had one for years, and always used > it as a huge screwdriver (once). > > ¢¢ > > -- > Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, where I learned alot about conveyors > in the brewery, and working across the street from a quarry or three. > Process Development Engineering > Eppler.Kirk@g... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158832 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-31 08:14:21 Subject: Re: chisel geometry Ken wrote a lot about sharpening a Buck Bros chisel which was out- of square. http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id- =158781#message ............ Some time back I discovered a problem with tapered, bevel edged chisels and the type of sharpening jig that clamps the chisel by their sides. The jig I was using, upon closer inspection, had one jaw which was straight and the other curved looking from the top. This is a deliberate design to assist in holding the chisel firmly. The jaws have an angular groove into which the chisel edges are gripped. The curved jaw essentially puts pressure only on one point of one of the chisel's sides, whilst the straight jaw grips the other side along its length. When a tapered, bevelled edged chisel is gripped, the thicker part of the bevelled edge (closer to the handle), cannot enter into the straight angular groove as far as the thinner part of the bevelled edge part. When tightened, the pressure of the curved jaw skews the chisel in the jig until it is gripped fully by the length of the straight jaw.The chisel is now out of line with the jig's roller, and a skewed cutting edge is created during sharpening. A jig of this type, used with Ken's out-of-square Buck Bros chisel, would have produced a simillar skewed sharpening. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158833 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-30 20:00:32 Subject: Re: Dovetail saw rake angle suggestions? On Wednesday 29 March 2006 08:05 am, Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS wrote: > Before attempting to sharpen the POS (piece of, uh, poop, Jeff) gent's > saw I've been using to learn how to cut dovetails, I called a couple > folks to see what rake angle they suggest. My local mentor (who has a > pair of IT dovetail saws, works of art they are) said he uses 0-deg > rake, and I found reference on the net that suggested the same. I > called Lie-Neilsen and found they use a 5-deg rake. Since I really > suck at dovetails, I'm leaning towards 5-deg instead of zero so the > saw is easier to start. > > Pray tell, what are your personal preferences/suggestions for dovetail > saw rakes? Rake angle will affect the aggressiveness of the cut, and the amount of control you have while sawing. For example, in bandsaws, 0-degree rake is "standard" - not very aggressive, but easy to handle. Positive rake is more aggressive but requires more "control" on the saw operator's part. Wood-cutting bandsaws are typically 10-degree rake, due to the fact that wood is so easy to cut with a bandsaw. I would imagine that a dovetail saw, due to the nature of the cut made, would be less than 10-degree, and the more "control" you want, the lower the rake angle you want, remembering that less rake equals slower cut in addition to more accurate cut. Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158834 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-30 18:01:05 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Mar 30, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > I don't want to buy another [level] to rob the bubble, > then have a extra level. I was only really wanting 2 decent ones to > use as > winding sticks. 1) If you got a bubble off another level you would have the two you want to use as winding sticks, plus one (the Stanley #30) would be a restored level, to boot. 2) If you want winding sticks, why not use sticks. They don't need bubbles, because they work in relation to each other rather than in relation to the center of the earth and its gravitational pull. Winding sticks are much lighter and more wieldy than levels, and there's nothing to break when they fall off your bench, as is the case with levels. They are also free, in your scrap bin. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158835 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-30 18:38:54 Subject: Re: Four-squaring with hand tools On Mar 30, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Kirk Eppler wrote: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml? > message_id=101829&submit_thread=1#message > Looking for a post called > Re: Critique my technique (long) > From Tom Holloway > Dated 1/13/02 9:15 AM While rummaging in the archives on these matters, Luis could do well to enter FEWTEL into the search box, and hit the button. That will yield several strings invoking or expanding on the acronym: Face Flatten a face (Reference #1) Edge Joint & Square an edge (Reference #2) Width Rip to width & joint new edge Thickness Plane to thickness, after gauging all around End Square one end Length Cut to length Including such sub lines as "stock preparation," "help in dimensioning stock," getting rid of twist," and other relevant topics. Uma resposta mais direta à pergunta de nosso amigo Luis Martins seria: It's very common for dimensioned hardwood that has been sitting in a lumber yard for a while to develop all sorts of irregularities in shape, including cup, twist, and bow. Wood moves. Let's just hope the irregularities are minor, and correctable in final dimensioning within tolerances for the job at hand. A few other random pointers: I usually start with the convex side up, because the board is more stable resting on the two protruding edges than rocking on the cupped side. When you turn it over to work the concave side, you will want to skew your jack plane so that it hits the protruding edges. This is when a #6 fore plane or even a smaller jointer like a #7 comes in handy, but set coarse for hogging off stock. This is an operation for which Kirby-esque "free floating" planing technique can be an exercise in frustration. This is what dogs and vices are made for--to secure stock that wants to rock and roll as you work toward flat. Finally--If you'll be gluing up several boards into a panel, joint the edges and do the glueup before you get the surfaces down to final thickness. That leaves some wiggle room to work the overall panel into a reasonably uniform thickness, while planing off the slight thickness differences at the joint lines. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158836 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-30 22:44:08 Subject: Re: Saw Maker Info Please Bill: Erv Schaffer's book Hand Saws Makers of North America lists Basset Jarvis & Morris making saws around 1880. Bob Sturgeon. _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rittner" To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: [OldTools] Saw Maker Info Please > While picking through my saw stash for my next victim I came across a > maker > I'm not familiar with. The blade is not clean so I don't know about an > etch. > The medallion is the deep dished type with split nits and it is marked > "Basset Jarvis & Morris New Haven CT". Does anyone have any info on > this > maker? > > As always any help will be appreciated. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" > (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158837 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-31 15:32:11 Subject: Re: chisel geometry Ken Greenberg writes: > I admit that I probably only ever > grind a chisel once. But I have seen recommendations that when the hollow grind > disappears and the bevel is completely flat, you should go back to the grinder > and restablish the hollow grind. Does anyone really do this? "Not I", said the fly, "Nor me", said the flea. I tend to think that the recommendation for regrinding the hollow bevel comes from those quite worthy persons who advocate the furnishing of irons with a primary and secondary or, sometimes, "micro" bevel, the usual bevels being 25 degrees and 30 degrees respectively. If regrinding is refrained from in these circumstances the stoning of the secondary bevel over time establishes it as the only bevel. The raison d'être of the secondary bevel is, as I understand things, the provision of a cutting edge at the desired bevel which is able to be restoned quickly because a minimum quantity of metal requires removal. I certainly have no trouble with this view and practice of things. In my own case, however, I find that grinding the correct and reasonably precise hollow bevel in the first place is a time-consuming and exacting occupation so I usually grind such a bevel at the desired angle, preponderantly 30 degrees, once and stone away happily freehand thereafter as the state of the iron's edge requires. This inevitably leads to the production of a flat, not hollow-ground bevel. The simple physics of the matter informs that, whilst the hollow grind persists, less metal is required to be removed than when the bevel is flat and that the stoning of a secondary bevel requires the removal of even less metal. However, experience informs that six to a dozen strokes on the fine side of a combination India stone with a flat-beveled iron is usually sufficient to produce a palpable wire edge, the immediate object of the exercise, along its entire length if the edge has not been damaged, whereafter the balance of the sharpening procedure, stoning the back and restoning the bevel until the wire disappears, then proceeding, maybe, to a finer natural stone and then stropping by whatever method appeals is the same no matter what the bevel's configuration may be. It may take fewer strokes to produce a wire edge on a secondary bevel which can't be done readily in any event, it is thought, without a jig, or on a hollow ground bevel but the time saved really is negligible. However, the time eventually comes when the back must be flattened a further short length up the iron and sometimes this situation coincides with the discovery, usually on plane irons, of a slight back-bevel worn there by the planing of hard timber. It is quicker to grind this back-bevel out by grinding the iron's edge back on the coarse side of a combination India stone than to try to flatten a section of the back to the depth of this bevel. The thick edge thus produced is more quickly reduced by grinding a new hollow bevel than by attempting to stone the existing bevel all the way down to a wire edge and it is on this occasion, together with the occasions of treating a damaged or mistreated iron or the formation of a new bevel angle, that hollow grinding is called for. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158838 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-30 23:56:04 Subject: Re: chisel geometry On Thursday 30 March 2006 01:46 pm, Ken Greenberg wrote: > If Lee > Valley hadn't just sent me a new Mark I jig after I wore mine out to the > point that it couldn't even be disassembled to replace the roller, I might > consider one of these. Does Rob Lee & Co offer some of the best customer service on the planet, or what?;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158839 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-31 00:04:31 Subject: Re: level bubbles On Thursday 30 March 2006 06:01 pm, Tom Holloway wrote: > 1) If you got a bubble off another level you would have the two > you want > to use as winding sticks, plus one (the Stanley #30) would be a restored > level, to boot. This is true. > 2) If you want winding sticks, why not use sticks. I think, because the levels are cool!;-) They serve more than one purpose and help hanging and leveling things out. The fact that they can double for a winding stick is just a plus. Some of the levels are excellent tools, very well made. In fact the Stanley 30 I got is actually pretty nice, and the brass is very nice. > and there's nothing to break when they > fall off > your bench, as is the case with levels. Hey, I've never dropped a tool off the bench in my life (hey, hey, what's my nose growin' for?;-). The notion of using the levels is only because they're just cool 'ol tools. The fact that you can get a nice old level with brass parts on it for $10, well, it saves me from digging through the scrap bin. I can use some flooring strips of purple heart as winding sticks, but old levels have such a nice coolness factor to them. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158840 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-31 00:09:28 Subject: Re: Saw Maker Info Please On Thursday 30 March 2006 07:44 pm, Bob Sturgeon wrote: > Erv Schaffer's book Hand Saws Makers of North America lists Basset > Jarvis & Morris making saws around 1880. Just to add to Bob's reply, this is right around the time that the saw nuts changes from the split-nuts to slotted for most manufacturers. This would be cool if it had split nuts on it. Depending on the maker, split nuts could be a blessing or a curse. Depends on how they made the saw. Some makers filed both sides of the nuts so that it was impossible to tighten the often loose handles. Some had some slot to them, and many wore over the years or got chewed up by the owners. As with anything else, all of our milage will vary. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158841 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-31 09:47:14 Subject: Re: Four-squaring with hand tools Luis Martins wrote: > Second question: What process would you recomend to make these boards flat? > I need some pieces around 2 feet long, maybe a bit more. Assuming that the boards are longer than 2 feet, cut to length before planing square. Consider a 1" thick board, 8 feet long, with a 1" bow over it's whole length. So we have 1/8" bow per foot. If we try to get a square 8 foot board out, it will have no thickness! And yet a 2 foot board can be 3/4" thick. The same principle applies to cup and twist. As a counter principle, planing small pieces can be tricky; edges and ends require care, and work-holding small items also present "issues". Therefore with very small workpieces, it can be an advantage to perform some of the squaring before all the separating saw cuts have been made. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158842 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-31 09:48:31 Subject: Re: chisel geometry Ken Greenberg wrote: > Besides, it was paid for by my standing around talking to people for > two hours about hand planes at the local Woodcraft. Wowza. I suspect most galoots would be happy to PAY to talk about hand plane for 2 hours. Nice drive-by! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158843 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-31 10:02:31 Subject: Re: Re: chisel geometry Peter Huisman wrote: > Ken wrote a lot about sharpening a Buck Bros chisel which was out- > of square. > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_- > id=158781#message > > > ............ > > Some time back I discovered a problem with tapered, bevel edged > chisels and the type of sharpening jig that clamps the chisel by their > sides. The jig I was using, upon closer inspection, had one jaw which > was straight and the other curved looking from the top. This is a > deliberate design to assist in holding the chisel firmly. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3495 This is a really clever trick. If the jaw were made "parallel", the jig would have to move carefully in a parallel fashion, and the blades would have to be nicely parallel too. The "point and line" holding system de-engineers the issue. It does make for an interesting life when sharpening old woodie blades though; they tend to have a moderate taper in width for their entire length, which means if you make the cutting edge square to the one side of the blade, the cutting edge is NOT square to the centre line of the blade. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158844 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-31 05:08:44 Subject: Level Vial Help While we're on the subject of level vials I need some help with one I picked up yesterday. Its a nice brass bound four foot level that's either craftsman (well) made or any makers marks are long gone. A lot of what ever holds the vials in place is missing on a couple of vials. Is this just plaster of paris? Since I'm going to use this I would like to make sure they won't fall out. The ongoing thread points out these are hard to replace. Don't want to waste the money since I spent one whole dollar on it. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158845 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-31 06:02:59 Subject: Re: Saw Maker Info Please Alan wrote > Just to add to Bob's reply, this is right around the time that the saw nuts > changes from the split-nuts to slotted for most manufacturers. > > This would be cool if it had split nuts on it. It does have split nuts and they were easy to get off. Will try to post some pics of the saw before cleaning this weekend. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158846 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-31 13:16:23 Subject: Re: Four-squaring with hand tools Thank you all for the nice tips! Last night I started sawing and planing my boards. The cup, bow and twist is minor and on a 1 foot board I got around 1/32" - 1/16" between the four corners of a face. Thomas, I mean jointer plane, not a machine jointer, and yes, I had some fun doing it with hand tools only. I didn't have more fun because my plane and jack are a bit dull and some sharpening is in order. I've just ordered a Veritas MK II guide to make it right!! :-) Tom, your Portuguese is very good! Where are your from? Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158847 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-31 07:28:53 Subject: raised beds - final plan Well folks, after a wander past the local sawmill, I've finalized the plans. Here's what happened; I got to the mill a bit early, 'cause I wanted to wander through the piles and see what was on hand. The short answer is: not much. I figured I'd probably end up falling back t what I could get at he local box. Hung out to chat with the sawyer (he's a buddy I only see now and then).Turns out they haven't really cranked up the sawing yet this year, but will be on Monday. He doesn't have much except pine, but because they're just starting up, he offered 2x8xwhatever for $0.39 a foot. Ordered 10 16 footers. So, the beds will be 16 feet long (with a support in the middle to keep bowing under control), 3.5' wide (due to landscape limitations). This comes out to 2 yards of fill per, and there will be 6 of them total. Construction will be 4x4s inside the corners, sunk into the ground, and a 4x4 outside in the middle of the long sides, also sunk into the ground. The sides will be screwed (3" deck screws) into the corners and middle supports. Total depth will be 16" +/-, the 4x4 will be sunk about 8" into the ground (dug in, not pointed and driven), with a gravel bed underneath for drainage. The ground contact part of the side boards will probably have a strip of rubber lawn edging stapled onto it to prevent direct ground contact. This will depend on the cost of the edging though.... Fill will be as follows: layer of wood shavings and sawdust (probably only a couple of inches) followed by a mixture of organic composted loam and manure. Interesting sorta old tool side note: The sawmill is run by the University of New Hampshire, as part of their forestry program. The equipment in there is about 40-50 years old (and is pretty scary by today's standards) - big open circular saw blade, no real safety guards, etc. They are in the process of prepping for an update: they are re-doing the entire log handling and stock handling system, and replacing the saw itself with a bandsaw. It will be upright instead of horizontal, but that's about all I know right now. I'm minorly in the loop at the mill, so I'll keep folks posted as I find out more. I don't know where the old equipment is going (I wish I had a place to set it all up), but my guess is it'll either be scrapped or someone associated with the mill will bring it home and do something with it...... --JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158848 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-31 06:52:31 Subject: RE: Four-squaring with hand tools And don't forget that there is a wealth of information about hand-tool stock prep (including Richard Wilson's original post) and other info all cataloged over at the Knowledge Base... http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=5 Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- Thank you all for the nice tips! Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158849 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-03-31 08:10:53 Subject: Troubles with the chairdevil I just made Folks, I made a chairdevil outa scrap, crap and about a dollars worth of fittings. I like it, but I'd like it a whole lot more if it didn't chatter. Last Decembers Popular Woodorking had a short article on making a chair devil, and I finally got around to making one. It took me two weekends and a fair number of days inbetween, but I'm slow. I guess I like extending the pleasure. The body is some nice unknown bright yellow wood with chatoyance on two faces that splinters easier than expected. The clamping plate of QS white oak was ebonized with a 3 day old mix of apple vinegar and steel wool. Not only does that stuff work (thanks for pushing this stuff Jim), but the rays are left unstained so it has thin gold streaks and dashes. The blade is the end of an old saw. The hacksaw didn't touch it, and I think I messed my sheetmetal snips cutting it off. Didn't have anything better, so I used a nailset to rough out the semicircle, setting the blade on a pine scrap. Sometimes not having the right tool works just fine. Don't have a lathe either, so I'm making do with octagonal handles. Most of the time it smooths just fine (on dry walnut branches), but sometimes it digs in and hops and digs in and hops and so on, about a quarter inch between digs. What can I do to eliminate that? I also find the 1/4 inch throat called for in the PW article is eventually clogged by shavings, so I'm considering making a new face plate with a 3/8 inch throat. Thanks for your help, cur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158850 ---- From: Dan Indrigo Date: 2006-03-31 11:50:33 Subject: 20 most important tools ever I didn't notice anyone else post this, sorry if it went around already, I'm a bit behind on my mail :^( http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/03/14/technology-tools- history_cx_de_06toolsland.html Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158851 ---- From: dcarr10760@a... Date: 2006-03-31 12:44:23 Subject: Re: raised beds & Sawmill >Interesting sorta old tool side note: >The sawmill is run by the University of New Hampshire, as part of their >forestry program. The equipment in there is about 40-50 years old (and is >pretty scary by today's standards) - big open circular saw blade, no real >safety guards, etc. They are in the process of prepping for an update: they >are re-doing the entire log handling and stock handling system, and >replacing the saw itself with a bandsaw. It will be upright instead of >horizontal, but that's about all I know right now. I'm minorly in the loop >at the mill, so I'll keep folks posted as I find out more. Executive Summary: My Nephew got a free, brand-new 100 year old sawmill...he sucks! Reminds me of an old Di*sel P*wered sawmill I worked at in my youth. It was owned by a cousin-in-law and I worked on Saturdays. I wasn't much of a woodsman or sawyer, but I could wrestle sawlogs onto the skids well enough and hurl slabs onto the pile and stack lumber as it came off the mill. The mill was a c*rcular sawmill and was early 19th century vintage. It was held together with bailing wire and duct tape. There was a teapot filled with oil to keep the screeching down. But we sawed lots of timber and Davis, the Sawyer worked well into his 70's. Eventually, he passed on. My Nephew came into possession of the mill. By then (three years ago) the mill was in sorry shape. My nephew planned to move it to his property and fix it up as a project. He was cleaning out a barn on Davis's property and discovered some old, large unopened crates. He looked inside and there was a second, identical, brand new sawmill, never opened or disturbed! It took him a year or so to set up the mill and to frame an enclosure for it but now he sells timber frame kits and lumber, he's added a kiln and is doing quite well with his fresh out of the crate 100-year old mill. David Carroll ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158852 ---- From: "David C." Date: 2006-03-31 10:13:18 Subject: Re: Re: chisel geometry Not just woodie blades; I have several Stanley metal plane cutters that don't have parallel sides (verified by measuring with a caliper), which makes it interesting when setting them up in my home made grinding jig; I use a small machinist's square and split the difference by eyeball. Dave C (The one in Machias, Wa) At 10:02 AM 3/31/2006 +0100, paul womack wrote: >It does make for an interesting life when sharpening old >woodie blades though; they tend to have a moderate taper in width >for their entire length, which means if you make the cutting >edge square to the one side of the blade, the cutting edge >is NOT square to the centre line of the blade. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158853 ---- From: Marvin Paisner Date: 2006-03-31 10:26:50 Subject: Re: 20 most important tools ever Dan & Galoots All who took part in the Forbes selection process should, as penance, be made to read 'One Good Turn: A Natural History Of The Screwdriver And The Screw' by Witold Rybczynki. Marv Paisner Kootenay Lake, BC Dan Indrigo wrote: > I didn't notice anyone else post this, sorry if it went around > already, I'm a bit behind on my mail :^( > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158854 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-31 11:56:05 Subject: Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, The Toolmaker of the Month for April 2006 is Glen-Drake Toolworks - Kevin Drake http://www.glen-drake.com/ Kevin, welcome to our contest. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158855 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-05-30 20:12:17 Subject: chair devil cur Any chance you could scan that article and send it to me?I have never seen plans for one of those and obviously the issue is long gone. If it was a spokeshave which I have a lot of experience with the first two things to check are, blade set to deep for the wood your working or too much pressure on the front or the back of the tool. You might also try giving your iron a bit of bevel on the back side. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158856 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-31 21:24:43 Subject: Simonds Saw Catalog Fellow Saw Aficionados: Our kind, and extremely handsome Brother, Wiktor, has added more pages to the Simonds Saw catalog at the link below. More pages will follow. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/1Simonds/1923-SimondsCatalog-HandSaws-ne.pdf Now back to your regularly scheduled program. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA Those who think I really am a Widow Pillaging Scoundrel, you don't know the half of it. > Al, > > I added new content to the file. > > Thanks, > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alan Perreault [mailto:alan.perreault@v...] >> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:35 PM >> To: Wiktor A. Kuc >> Subject: Simonds Saw Catalog >> >> Wiktor, >> >> I have attached a few more pages of the 1923 Simonds Saw >> Catalog, to be added to those now on display. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Al Perreault >> Wachusett Galoot >> Westminster, MA >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158857 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-03-31 19:13:21 Subject: RE: chair devil Steve Lineback writes: > ... the first > two things to check are, blade set to deep for the wood your working > or too much pressure on the front or the back of the tool. You might > also try giving your iron a bit of bevel on the back side. These things operate like scrapers; think Stanley #80 for round sticks instead of flat cabinets. The article suggests setting the blade 1/16th inch beyond the wood, which I've followed. I also gave the mouth parts a good deal more than the 10 degrees of bevel suggested in the article, as well as sharpening the sides of the blade which may or may not have been the correct thing to do. When I googled around for images, I found that you can buy these for $50 - $75, complete with an inset brass wear plate on the front. I also saw a really crude Appalachian example that looked more like driftwood than a working tool. These two things told me I was saving half a ransom by making one, and that it's far from rocket science to do so. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158858 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-31 23:29:25 Subject: Apprenticeship Part 3 Hi Galoots, here's the next installment. I will be including photos in the version that goes to Wiktor. So please check the Old Tools site http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/snips/store/HydeP-apprentice.asp to see the full colour version The Apprenticeship: I have already mentioned the pay scale, and hours of work and these were a small part of the overall apprentice agreement. At that time the trade apprenticeships were organised by trade guilds and overseen by the Government. My apprenticeship was made available by the London Federation of Master Builders and consisted of a 5 year term to be completed on my 21st. birthday. During those 5 years, I had to attend technical college 1 day a week which I got paid for. I also had to attend 1 evening a week in my own time. If I missed the evening, I lost the pay for the 1 day. Miss 2 consecutive weeks without a really good reason and you could be thrown out of your apprenticeship. The 1 day was a long one. Starting at 9:00am and finishing at 9:00pm with 2 one hour meal breaks. We took building science, building math, technical drawing, building construction and social studies, as well as a 4 hour practical session in the well-equipped workshop. All practical work was hand tools. The math and social studies, which included English, were the evening class and mostly concentrated on estimating, bills of quantities and general correspondence of a technical nature. We were examined every semester and annually. At the, halfway mark we set the Craft exam for the City and Guilds Examination board and if successfully then went on to achieve a full C&G trade certificate with the final exam that was sat at completion of apprenticeship. This would then hopefully lead to further study to become a “Borough Surveyor” (City Engineer) or a General Foreman. Or we could just carry on being a “Chippy.” Tool Boxes: At my first place of apprenticeship, I had been instructed to build a tool box. The only wood available was Douglas fir which we used to build the moulds for the concrete panels. Plywood was form ply which was all 3/4” but I put it through a 24” thicknesser to make it 1/4”. Anyway here it is with its original paint finish minus the hasp because I lost the key to the padlock at some time. Dovetailed by hand and of a traditional design it has stood up remarkably well even survived a trans-Atlantic voyage. The dovetails in the tray were nailed for some reason that escapes me. This box with my inherited tools was fairly well received in the joiner’s shop, and I was told it would do until I was a tradesman, and then I would have to build a proper chest. I guess at that time it was expected I would have a near complete tool kit and so I should be able to build a suitable custom chest. Unfortunately that never happened. Background characters: In 1956 I was living in Lichfield, Staffordshire a cathedral city about 90 miles Northwest of London and about 15 miles from Birmingham. Late one night during a bad snowstorm there was a knock at the door and 2 totally unexpected visitors arrived. One was my older cousin; John and the other was Joe who was John’s mentor. John was near the end of his apprenticeship at Hamptons of Vauxhall, and they were working in Birmingham doing an on site installation. They stayed the night, and I listened to the work stories they related to my parents. The most impressive being the time spent working on the fitting out of the Royal Yacht Brittania. Now fast forward to 1962 and a new joiner joins us. He was to become the person who taught me a lot about hand railing and stairs. Several months went by until one lunchtime he remarked about my funny accent, and I told him I had lived near Birmingham for about 5 years and still had some of the dialect. He then told me a story of him and his apprentice visiting some people in Lichfield during a snow storm. So Joe ended teaching both my cousin and myself some of the finer aspects of the trade. When I last saw him about 6 years ago cousin John had his own joinery company. We also took on another apprentice John Green about the same time. I was entrusted with his initial breaking in but had very little to do with any craft instruction. He finally became Joe’s apprentice, and they were moved into another smaller shop next door. The labourer who worked with us was quite a character. Cyril did all the odd jobs and loaded and unloaded lorries, as well as make tea and keep the fire going. He had quite a drinking problem and would often show up for work reeking of rum and covered in coal dust from sleeping in the coal cellar. He also had a passion for eating raw Spanish onions, which seemed to be his main food intake. I think it was in 1962 that the company decided to try an advertising campaign in the local paper. A double page photo spread was done, and there were several shots of work being done in the shop at that time. One was a large mahogany bow window. I unfortunately lost the proof picture some time ago, but am investigating ways of getting some copies. To be continued............ Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158859 ---- From: lunytools@a... Date: 2006-04-01 00:40:28 Subject: MWTCA Show Loves Park IL Sunday There is a MWTCA Show in Loves Park IL. on sunday the 2nd. The address is Forest Hills Lodge 9572 Forest Hills Road Loves Park IL. 61111 Slav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158860 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-04-01 00:59:48 Subject: Apprenticeship Part 4 Some more building site experience and a glimpse into a historic past. During the summer, we were sent down to the bosses country home to do some major renovations. He lived in a timber framed cottage probably 300 years old. I installed new raised panel wainscotting in one room and down the stairs and landing into the entrance hall. The original oak post and beam had a stacked brick infill. There was no bond to the brickwork, and the mortar was a lime mortar with horsehair in it. The plaster on the inside was very soft and could be scraped off with a square shovel. We cut a datum line with a knife and removed all the horsehair plaster below the line. The wainscotting had all been made up in the shop, ready for us to install. Because of the fragile nature of the brickwork we used wood plugs in the mortar joints to allow screws to be used for fastening. The plugs were about 3 inches square and the same thickness as the mortar joint. Each plug was chiselled so that it was twisted about 1/8 inch. The mortar was removed, and the plug tapped in with the long grain showing. As the plug entered the pocket, the twist made it tight and secure. This was a traditional way of providing a sound fixing in mortar joints since Roman times. No rotary hammer drills and carbide bits or Tapcons. We also had to fix a leak in the swimming pool and to do this we needed some hydraulic cement. We got directions to a local builders yard and were given 2 old fashioned upright bicycles complete with baskets as transport. The builders yard was about a 3 mile ride each way. While they were looking for the cement, we took a look at their carpenter’s shop which was right out of the history books. It was a long narrow clap board building with a sagging roof of heavy clay tiles. Inside there were 2 banks of 4 benches. Each bench was about 12 feet long with traditional front and tail vises. But, the thing I remember most is the centre aisle between the 2 banks of benches. Right down the centre of the shop the aisle was about 4 feet wide, and it had no floorboards! There were just joists at about 24 inch centres resting on the dirt. There were floorboards between the benches and everywhere else. 4 very friendly joiners, all with white aprons and all wearing moustaches showed us around. There were also 2 very young apprentices who were cajoled into showing us why there were no floorboards. They took a 16 foot length of 4 x 6 pine and mounted it in the tail vises of the benches. (All the tail vises were at the centre aisle.) Then they took down from a shelf, the biggest baddest moulding plane I have ever seen! It was a good 3 feet long and 4 inches wide. There was a full enclosed handle, like a saw handle, behind the wedged blade and up front was a length of 2 inch diameter dowel that passed side to side right through the body of the plane and to this was attached a length of rope. One apprentice picked up the rope and pulled, and the other pushed and guided this ceiling cove moulding plane down the length of the wood. The bare joist provided the extra foothold needed to power this plane. I have never seen anything like it since. They had about a dozen of these monsters, most were ceiling cove moulds but one was for 2 1/2 inch thick door stile and rail profiles. Awesome! Anyway with hydraulic cement in basket we returned, and spent the rest of the afternoon diving into the pool with handfuls of cement trying to patch a crack in the deep end. One more installment to come. Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158861 ---- From: jurriaan Date: 2006-04-01 13:22:19 Subject: where can I buy 1 1/2" whitworth nuts (6 TPI)? I'm looking for a source of 1 1/2" whitworth nuts, with 6 threads per inch - I'd like about 4 of them. E**y has come up empty, specialized dealers sell them in very large numbers, and locally no one even knows what I'm talking about. This thread is the main thread of the spindle of my old German Geiger lathe, BTW. Sources in Europe would be nice, sources worldwide are still appreciated, of course! Thanks, Jurriaan -- Pay attention, the wreckage seemed to declare. Some things cannot be undone, short of time pivoting in its groove and crawling back on itself. Tad Williams - Otherland Debian (Unstable) GNU/Linux 2.6.16-mm1 5503 bogomips load 0.15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158862 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-04-01 09:16:24 Subject: Apprenticeship Part 5 The final episode containing disasters and dramatic rescue and a sad ending. For Xmas 1963 I was asked to make a pair of partners desks for our 2 bosses, one in oak and the other in mahogany with embossed leather tops. They were of a modern design and were French polished. I finished them some time in November, and they were presented to the partners just before Xmas. We had a week off for the Xmas holiday and when we returned to work disaster had struck! It was a particularly cold Xmas, and a water pipe had burst in the attic above the offices. The plaster ceilings had fallen with the weight of the water and buried the 2 desks. Also in the front reception area there was a grand piano that was the pride and joy of one of the partners. It too was full of water and covered in fallen plaster. During clean up our polisher instructed us to take the desks and the piano out into the yard and bury them in sawdust and shavings and then cover them with a waterproof tarp. After several months they were moved into the shop and left buried under fresh sawdust. Then one warm sunny day came the moment of truth. All 3 pieces were dragged out into the sunshine and dusted off. The 2 desks were in remarkably good shape. There was some mildew on the leather and a few dings and some spotting to the finish. The polisher opened up his kit and within a few minutes they looked as good as new. Even the drawers were working good and were given some beeswax on the oak runners just to finesse them. The piano was another story! It was totally white, and the entire interior was a disaster. The felts had all come off the keys and most of the hammers and the strings needed to be replaced. The decision was made to restore it. We removed as much of the workings as possible, just leaving the cast iron frame and the strings. Then our polisher did an amazing thing, he poured methylated spirits (alcohol) over the closed piano and set fire to it! We freaked out! As the almost invisible flames died down the polisher started reworking the now soft finish with a rubber and a small bottle of his secret potion. Within minutes that piano looked like new. It was amazing. This was the same polisher who had given me definite instruction on the correct sanding methods for finish preparation. I spent about 6 months working in the paint and French polishing shop so as to get a thorough understanding of the basic chemistry and physical properties of the finishes that were in use at that time. We used a generic “Pink Primer” under all painted finishes. This was a mixture of turpentine, boiled linseed oil, Japan dryers and ground red lead. We also prepared shellac for use as “knotting” to prevent sap bleed through. The same knotting was mixed with whiting to form “stopping” (a filler). We added a white primer made with ground white lead to stopping to make “French Putty” which was a filler to be used on exterior work. On one end of the painter’s bench was the “wipe.” This was an area upon which all the paint brushes were wiped after being washed in turpentine. Over a time quite a mound would build up to a point where it was sawed off, and the process started again. The lump of multi coloured layered paint was given to a jeweler to make cheap earings and pendants from. Apparently, this used to be a common thing. The head painter, Bert, was amazing. He could perfectly colour match any colour. He could go to a job and look at a colour that was faded and then mix up a perfect match back in the shop, all from memory. He taught me the importance of using a large brush for cutting in, and how to use a back stroke, how to tip off, what to look for in a good brush also how to hang paper. In the third week of March, 1963 I was summoned up to the partners office along with my 2 mentors. Sitting on the oak desk I made, was a champagne bucket and 4 glasses. There was a short speech of congratulations and a toast to me for completing my apprenticeship. Not a dry eye in the place, handshakes all around and a promise made by me that I would stay with the company. 4 weeks later I had a bad motorcycle accident that put me in hospital for 4 months. I was paid my full wage all during that time but unfortunately had to miss my final City and Guild’s examination at tech college. Later that year the company declared bankruptcy, and I was looking for work. Thank you to all who read and encouraged me to put this together. It's been quite a trip down memory lane for me, and looking back I know I wouldn't change a thing if I had the chance to do it again. My next employment was a reality check! I will put something together about joiner reality later. Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158863 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-04-01 14:35:53 Subject: Got an Axe-Now What? GGs, I picked up an axe yesterday. Rough shape. See 5 pix of it beginning here: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3773 I got it because it is marked Buhl Sons Co in Detroit, Michigan. Buhl was a hardware store in downtown Detroit dating back to about the Civil War. I haven't seen much Detroit marked stuff. It's rough. What do I do with it to make it pretty? I know nothing of axes. Very Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158864 ---- From: "Gary P. Laroff" Date: 2006-04-01 06:52:33 Subject: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt I can't believe no one has posted this yet. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p=53927 Gary Laroff, in Portland, Oregon, where it is starting to look like spring, especially when it's not raining. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158865 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-04-01 10:13:14 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt The disclaimer is great ... From: "Gary P. Laroff" >I can't believe no one has posted this yet. > > http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p Ahhh, yes .. what's the date?? You betcha .... Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158866 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-04-01 10:15:51 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt Gary, I have enough trouble keeping my pants up now, never mind wearing that belt with my collection of jointahs attached. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA Spreading Galootism over here on the Dark Side. >I can't believe no one has posted this yet. > > http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p > > Gary Laroff, in Portland, Oregon, where it is starting to look like > spring, > especially when it's not raining. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158867 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-04-01 11:03:02 Subject: Saw Painters Esteemed Galoots: AHHHHHH! I was down to the flea market yesterday and had just finished looking through a barrel of rusty handsaws when (I'm not making this up) a woman and husband bought the entire lot of handsaws and barrel from the guy for ~$50. OhMiGod. She's a saw painter! A saw painter with a lust for handsaws! At my flea market! Here I was, planning to taper off on saw acquisition because I have so many that it's getting hard to squeeze into my shop. Sigh. For the strong of stomach, here's a site I found on saw painting: http://tinyurl.com/mgyhs **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158868 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-04-01 11:06:23 Subject: Yard sale iron I was setting up the tax software to begin that happy annual rite when my wife called from a yard sale: They had several planes. Willing to take any excuse, I jumped into the car and drove over. I passed on a nice, clean $15 MF 10 because it had no blade or cap iron. I picked up a nice WWII (?) Stanley 60 with no lateral adjuster, a steel knob, and no handi-grip millings in the sides for $23. As long as I was there, I also paid $20 for a clean Stanley 93 (not my first choice, but an acceptable tool) and $20 more for a super clean, Sweetheart era 12 1/2. I have a not-quite-so clean family 12 1/2, so I'll have to go through an adoption agency to place this one. I wish all tax days went so well. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158869 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-04-01 08:25:13 Subject: Re: Got an Axe-Now What? >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >I got it because it is marked Buhl Sons Co in Detroit, Michigan. > It doesn't look that rough to me Pete Try waterless hand cleaner and a rag first, moving to Galoot wax and paper towels. If no good, penetrating oil and a green scrubber moving to steel wool if you need to. Citric acid bath, electrolysis, it gets heavier from here but try the soft stuff first unless it's a very flattering picture. I was looking at the websites of hickory handle mills sometime back. The better mills will sell you a handle to fit this ax in 10 different grades. That's right, 10 grades, lowest to highest. Who stocks the -good- handles?? Wish I knew. yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158870 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-04-01 08:41:24 Subject: Stropping a Blade It's come to my attention lately that maybe what I thought was obvious might not be. There are almost as many ways to sharpen as there are faces in the crowd. And if you have a way that's working great, well good on ya. But in case you are new or not quite sure and looking for a way in and the usual descriptions seem vague and elusive. Maybe you suspect your edges could be better with less time and work. If you want one way "in" that's guaranteed to work, keep reading. >>>> Keith DeGrau is a fine gent. You can't go wrong with him or his >>>> products, whatever else. Look him up. >>>> >>>> 'O Course, my strop is exceedingly fine too >>>> >>>> It's slabs of Tiajuana leather lopped off a 25 cent yard sale purse >>>> and glued both sides to a scrap of softwood 1X4. The hair side out >>>> one face and the skin the other. >>>> The hair side is rubbed with emory or med al ox about once every 2 >>>> or 3 years. The skin side, red rouge, applied even less. >>>> 25 years never let me down. >>>> Clamp it stout in your vise. You don't want it dancing around, now. >>>> Always pull the tool, edge trailing on a strop. The old recipe I >>>> use is 10 strokes the flat side to 2 strokes the bevel side. Same >>>> as CPR, more er less >>> >>>> >>>> Slap it down, put some WEIGHT on it, pull. Lift it up and take it >>>> to the far side away from you. >>> > Again > >>>> Slap it down, you're working a blade here, not Zha Zha Gabor's >>>> fingernails, lean on it, pull. >>>> >>>> Again, again. >>>> >>>> Get into the rhythm. Again Don't rock the blade, keep it down on >>>> the bevel or down on the flat. >>>> >>>> Again, >>>> >>>> Don't dig the corners in!, Again. >>>> >>>> You a man or a mouse? Put some Moxie into it and don't be taking >>>> all day about it. Let's go, Again!' >>>> >>>> Slap - Me hearties - Pull >>> >>> Slap - Boys - Pull >>> >>> Again - boys - PULL !!! >>> >>> (You could be a winner boy you move quite well) >> Pull! Lemme hear it.... >>> Pull! (together now) >> Pull!! (you got it) Pull!! (bring it home ) Yeah! Pull! Pull! Pull! > >>>> >>>> --Comfortable-- shave??? >>>> oh yeah. >>> >>>> >>>> scissors, shears, knives, carving chisels >>>> Slap - Pull >>> >>> yours, Scott >> -- Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158871 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-04-01 11:45:50 Subject: RE: Got an Axe-Now What? > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Pete & Christine Mueller > > It's rough. What do I do with it to make it pretty? I know > nothing of axes. > Pete, Well, to make it pretty you should start with the rust removal technique of your choice. Electrolysis, citric acid, wire brush, whoops, that last one might fire up the ire of some of the list members, but hey, it's only an axe! After that, check out this web page: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/toc.htm It's got a lot of good stuff on the care, feeding, hanging, and sharpening of axes. Nothing like a good, sharp axe to make quick work of wood. The topic of axes came up a while ago as to who was still making good ones. I had a Gransfors-Bruks at that time, and have since added a couple more along with a couple of Snow-Neally's. They're both good brands, seem well made, hold their edges well, but overall I really like the Gransfors-Bruks ones better. The feel, balance, and look of them trip my trigger. I have a hunter's hatchet, small forest axe, and splitting hatchet from them(new stock). The hunter's hatchet or small forest axe are perfect for taking along on campouts, and can take care of efficiently chopping wood larger than their size would indicate. I also have a couple of older G-B double bit heads that I picked up that are still in process of being made into axes. But I think they'll be good quality too. Jim Foster Minnesota ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158872 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-04-01 11:32:49 Subject: RE: Saw Painters Tom and GGs--If that site is for real and the saws did fall on Mrs. Dimpleton causing her demise then it just shows that A. there is a tool God or B. the wheels of Karmic justice roll faster than previously thought or C. solvents are man's best friend. Better living through chemistry. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Tom Price > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:03 AM > To: OldTools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Saw Painters > > Esteemed Galoots: > > For the strong of stomach, here's a site I found on saw painting: > > http://tinyurl.com/mgyhs > > **************************** > Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) > Will Work For Tools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158873 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-04-01 11:55:43 Subject: Handles GG, Scott says... I was looking at the websites of hickory handle mills sometime back. The better mills will sell you a handle to fit this ax in 10 different grades. That's right, 10 grades, lowest to highest. Who stocks the -good- handles?? Wish I knew. yours, Scott You mean like this... http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3780 Got two different dealers at the flea who have bundles and bundles of handles...some good some better and some kindling... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158874 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-04-01 09:58:03 Subject: Re: Got an Axe-Now What? On Apr 1, 2006, at 6:35 AM, Pete & Christine Mueller wrote: > I picked up an axe yesterday. Rough shape. See 5 pix of it > beginning here: > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > What do I do with it to make it pretty? Pete-- I like axes, and have revived a few--not that I have much practical use for the resulting rehabbed tool. This one doesn't look so rough to me. You must have a low tolerance for roughness in found tools ;-) I would not hesitate to soak this one for a while in a citric acid bath, or electrolysis. Although as Scott suggests, it doesn't look to be essential in this instance, it would help to clean out the inside of the eye etc. If there are any burrs of metal obstructing passage of the handle into the eye, smooth off with a curved surface file, taking care to not round the edges of the eye. From what I can see your most pressing issue is the serious mushrooming of the head. I would take an angle gr•nder to that mess (or motorized bench grinder if that's what you have--it would be a lot of hand filing), being careful in the final shaping to make it as similar to original shape as possible. I would then follow with a series of sandpaper grits under my thumb to remove most of the scratch marks from the grinder. That will leave some shiny spots around the head, but it's better than leaving it all mashed and splayed, on what otherwise looks to be a good axe with a nice logo of an old company. For the handle, I would take the rehabbed axe with me to a well stocked hardware store so as to compare the size and shape of the eye visually with the handles available. From what I can make of the size, it looks like a 36" or so handle would be suitable. Take some care fitting with wood rasp and file, resisting any tendency to taper the part that fits in the eye any more than necessary. When fit properly (to within 1/2" or so of the "shoulder" on the top front part of the handle), the tip of the handle blank will probably protrude some from the front side, and will need to be sawed off, then worked down with file flush with the head. After inserting the vertical wooden wedge that should come with the handle, tighten it with two medium-sized steel wedges placed diagonally maybe 3/4" from top and bottom of the eye opening. For sharpening, it's a little hard to tell from the pics, but it looks as though you don't have much work to do in reestablishing a proper (shallow) bevel. There does seem to be a little more arc on the edge than the oldtimers might have used--a common result of repeated use of a wheel grinder in which the front and back corners are unduly rounded because that's where the head is thinnest. So I would go for a somewhat shallower arc, but not work this one down enough to reestablish crisp corners, which would be a waste of steel in the middle of the edge, the business end. HTH, Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158875 ---- From: Jimlemon@a... Date: 2006-04-01 13:02:27 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt Now that should teach me to have my coffee before I read my mail. Fell for it hook, line, and sinker. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158876 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-01 10:25:59 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship Part 5 On Saturday 01 April 2006 06:16 am, Peter Hyde wrote: > The final episode containing disasters and dramatic rescue and a sad > ending. Peter, Truely a great read. This is very interesting, and helps others understand what apprenticeship used to mean, because we don't see the same type of apprenticeship today. I guess nowdays an apprenticeship would include having to learn how to use most tailed apprentices. I have a friend that builds cabinets, have known him since high school, he does very nice work and lives not too far from me, and built my kitchen cabinets. Another friend of mine used to work for him, and had built a large credenza for his uncle which he dovetailed the drawers on...but truth be told he used a tailed router I recentely found out. Back then I didn't understand how to hand cut a dovetail, and to be honest really didn't know the difference between machined or hand cut dovetails anyway, so it was all the same to me. I barely understood how a dovetail joint worked. Knowing what I know now, I'm less impressed with machined joinery, it's just not the same, yet it would probably be a skill one needs when going through apprenticeship today. Unfortunate as it is, apprenticeship has changed, and the skills you learned are few and far between for most apprentices today. > Also in the front reception area there was a grand piano that > was the pride and joy of one of the partners. It too was full of water > and covered in fallen plaster. This is bad enough in itself. > Then our polisher did > an amazing thing, he poured methylated spirits (alcohol) over the > closed piano and set fire to it! We freaked out! The owner must have laid a potato in his pants. I would not be comfortable with someone setting fire to my piano...but the guys obviously knew what he was doing and it sounds like it was a mess already. > Within > minutes that piano looked like new. It was amazing. This is like, "Ok, you can breath again...the piano didn't turn into charcoal for the BBQ...".;-) > 4 weeks later I had a bad motorcycle accident that put me in hospital > for 4 months. > ... > Later that year the company declared bankruptcy, and I was looking for > work. Kind of a lousy ending, but at least you finished your apprenticeship at that point. Sounds like an invaluable time for you learning how to be a craftsman, something not taught the same way today. > My next employment was a reality check! I will put something together > about joiner reality later. Look forward to reading about that. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158877 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-04-01 09:37:06 Subject: FS -- Dog booties Maybe you haven't thought about it lately, but aren't you getting tired and disgusted of all the naked dogs you see everywhere these days? I mean, think about it. Bench dogs are only the tip of the iceberg. There's also the log dogs, lap dogs, floor dogs, sled dogs, watch dogs, and worst of all, the yappy little ankle biter dogs that wake up the house when you occasionally come home late at night. Well, I couldn't get a decent supply of the nice doggie uniforms that the Iditarod racers dress up their dogs in, but here's a trivial and pointless way to address the problem, if you still care. Official dog booties, picked up from the Iditarod trail, wadded into a pocket, and finally thrown in a frozen heap into our laundry basket, these booties all got accidentally washed this week; so some of the authenticity has been lost, but they are thawed out now, and much nicer to handle than usual. What would you be willing to pay for these fine artifacts of dog racing? Hundreds of dollars each? Postage? Even less than that? How about if the postage is free? Here's your chance to be the first in your shop to own these practical little cloth baggy things with elastic and velcro closure tabs that you can use for all kinds of shop and household tasks-- --Put them on your dog and laugh as he tries to figure out what the h--- is going on; --Use them to cover your holdfasts pads or bench dogs to reduce marks; --Hide small quantities of vegetal matter in the shop; --Put them over the muzzle of your gun to keep snow out of the barrel; --Store and protect small parts, tools, and optics; or just --Do what I plan to do and get rid of them if you can. Here's the offer. For $105 (postage included), I will send you a pair of dog booties, clean and possibly serviceable. Plus, this free gimmick--a pair of large, gold leaf holdfasts, made in the USA by Jake the Russian, official green card immigrant labor from, well, Russia. By an odd coincidence, the booties fit right on either end of the holdfasts. Not that I can think of any reason to put them there, but it's up to you what you do with this stuff. SOT terms, the booties are available to about the first 15 galoots who order. Please mention this special offer, dated -- April Fools day, 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158878 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-04-01 10:39:35 Subject: Re: Saw Painters GGs-- Speaking of old saws, It's good to see that after being inundated with queries from prospective *b#y sellers and buyers for years now, Eric von Sneidern has finally come to the realization that *all* old saws are amputation saws: http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/index.html Tom Holloway On Apr 1, 2006, at 9:32 AM, paul schobernd wrote: > Tom and GGs--If that site is for real and the saws did fall on Mrs. > Dimpleton causing her demise then it just shows that A. there is a > tool God > or B. the wheels of Karmic justice roll faster than previously > thought or C. > solvents are man's best friend. Better living through chemistry. > Paul in > Normal > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- >> bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Tom Price >> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:03 AM >> To: OldTools@r... >> Subject: [OldTools] Saw Painters >> >> Esteemed Galoots: >> >> For the strong of stomach, here's a site I found on saw painting: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/mgyhs >> >> **************************** >> Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158879 ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 2006-04-01 11:04:16 Subject: Caleb's Day Out (a flea market report) [executive summary - our new boy has his first trip to the flea market] GGs, First off, thank you for the many kind, personal notes regarding the birth of our GIT Caleb. I responded to barely any of you, but please know your kind wishes were read word-for-word to GIT Olguin and SWIATAABOC. This is and always will be a great virtual community. Needless to say, what with the boy being nearly 11 weeks old ( http://www.lounge-o-rama.com/baby ), me worrying about successfully getting an expensive piece of hardware into orbit around Mars ( http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2006-048 ), and playing with our quite unexpectedly popular band ( http://bigbandtheory.com/ ), made even more popular owing to its fabulous CD ( http://tinyurl.com/j68b4 ), I've not had a lot of time for galooting. Not unpredictably, Caleb is quite sturdy. I swear he was able to hold his head up from day two. He has progessed from a vigorous, observant infant to an engaging little person who smiles, laughs, coos and has discovered his hands can do more than make a fist and be jammed into his mouth in lieu of a pacifier. My favorite new Calebism is when I'm patting him on the back, trying to coax a burp out of him, he pats me lightly on the shoulder in solidarity. His momma's favorite expression to hear him say is, "Ah-goo." Typical ;) So what does this have to do with toolin? Well, I figured yesterday was a good day to introduce him to the shop (he'd already been introduced to the BORG, grocery sore, department store and a couple of local resaurants... all excellent venues for exploiting your baby's outrageous cuteness in compelling easily-manipulated females to insist you take their place in line... works every time). The shop these days consists of my all-weather workbench in the back yard, and about 1/4 of a leaky 85-year old one-buggy garage. It doesn't really sport the organized array of tools, blatantly on display, but the usual suspects of saws, planes, hammers, chisels, scrapers, etc. are out there. The boy took in the visuals of the shop like he does with most things, with a quiet aplomb, followed by wide smiles and then if there's something truly notable - giddy excitement complete with huffing/puffing, legs kicking and arms waving. If something has truly gotten him off-the-charts excited, he attempts what I call a "stage dive" in the general direction of the object of interest. To date, thankfully, he has not successfully executed this maneuver such that he has become airborne. So we lingered over the saws, hammers, nails, a rabbet (rebate, Jeff) plane or two and browsed the varied drawers of my Kobalt (decent enough brand of modern tool accoutrement, Richard) tool chest until we came upon the drawer-of-planes. As I opened it fully, he pegged the excitement meter. We weren't looking at anything special, really. A couple of type 11 #5's (those'd be jack planes, Jeff), two #6's (one more and I'd have spontaneously summoned Beelzebub) and a very clean type 5 #8 (a replacement for my original jointer that met its maker about five years ago). Well, Caleb's excitement got me excited as well. Could it be the plane gene had been passed on? So I dragged the planes out and set them on top of the chest for a more complete viewing. I wish I'd had the camera. He got very quiet and studied the planes with the concentration available only to those who haven't had many distractions in their lives. I'd like to say he zeroed-in on the #8, but they pretty much all got equal attention. He let out a sigh and said quite clearly, "ahh-gheeee," and deposited an impressive puddle of drool on the tote of a #5. As with most babies of this age, he really wanted to taste the tote, but I drew the line. We did a little more shop-browsing, me telling him how I'd come across each treasure, him taking it all in. Each time we passed by the planes he'd say, "ahh-gheeeee." It must be Calebeese for plane. All in all, a most satisfying experience. I figured it couldn't get any better for a nearly-eleven-week old kid's interest in tools... until this morning's flea market. Today broke dreary and what passes for cold out here in SoCal. Not the ideal day for a flea market outing, but we'd made plans to meet some friends at one of the usual spots, and the weatherman promised the worst was over. He was right. We pulled into the Golden West College parking lot and vendors were set-up, shrugging off the last remnants of the rain. The sun was actually peeking out as we unpacked our Eddie Bauer Urban Assault Stroller, complete with dual coffee mug holders, cell phone holders and CD storage compartment. Oh yeah, and a place for the baby to sit too. Caleb loves the stroller. We strap him in not so much out of concern for preventing escape, but because of the possibility of a sudden earthquake shaking him out of his seat. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Because he's so strong, and can already sit up, I eschewed the infant car seat and let him ride proper-like in the stroller itself. He was digging it...for about four minutes before he fell fast asleep, pacifying himself on the cushioned edge of the stroller seat. After hailing my wife's friends on our flea-market-necessary cell phones, we vectored-in on the corner of the parking lot where the rust things tend to dwell. We caught up to them as they rounded the largish stall containing the ever-popular "rustic" farm implements. Too often I'm faked out by these places, mistaking (at a distance) some real possibilities for what turns out to be cobbler's lasts. Hardly the same as a nice Bailey pattern plane. We got into the usual "boring adult talk" as we lingered next to the rustics. I normally blow off these conversations, but I hung around because they were naturally discussing my new favorite topic - Caleb. Well, you know how it is if you take your eye off a kid for a split second, especially when you think they are fast asleep, not to awaken until you sit down to eat, right? I'm not sure when I heard it over the slightly annoying blare of a boombox two stalls down (not sure if it was for personal entertainment, or the guy was demonstrating that it actually worked), but suddenly my mind registered, "ahh-gheeee," very softly but with some earnest. "Awwww, my boy's cooing for an audience," I thought. "Ahh-ghheeee!" This had a little more umph to it, so I peered around SWIATAABOC and to my horror saw little Caleb had gone Houdini on me and had pulled himself just about halfway over the edge of the stroller seat and was seriously considering a stage dive on what looke like... a plane!! He'd see a nice tote (obviously cocobolo) sticking out from under a tarp and now meant to satisfy his vision quest to "Taste The Plane!" He was still strapped in, but that last thing anyone would want to see right then (other than a dog attacking a woman, and then being subdued with a #8C) was a baby dangling out of some yuppie stroller. Before I could crouch down and fully employ my one good titanium hip (totally being gravy-trained by the left hip, still bound in the purgatory of arthritis), Caleb went for the stage dive. His meaty little paw (they were delicate baby hands for maybe three weeks, then he got the hands of his grandpa) stretched for the tote-of-his-dreams, just as DaddyPaddyo caught the sturdy terry cloth fabric of his shamelessly cute ducks-and-bears feety-pajamas. By this time I'd caught the attention of SWIATAABOC and she kind of made a little squeak. Caleb, however, was having none of it, he went into full-on huffy-puffy leg-kicking mode, totally focused on his prize. I didn't want to yank him back into the stroller, so I held fast while momma went around to fetch him up. As she picked him up, a long string of baby drool stretched from his smiling lips to the prize in his hand. I was amazed at the tensil strength of that saliva - making a transparent single-span that bridge engineers might have been proud of (sorry bh). In his mighty mitt, he held the tote of a what looked like a type 4 #6. He held it up and said... "April Fools, Daddy!!! You know I'd never bring home another numbah six!!" Happy April 1st, everybody. ;o) Paddy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158880 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-04-01 14:37:23 Subject: RE: Saw Painters Tom wrote: > For the strong of stomach, here's a site I found on saw painting: >http://tinyurl.com/mgyhs You are a cruel, cruel man, Tom. I have to go rinse my eyes out now. Steve, in Howell NJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158881 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-04-01 15:09:51 Subject: RE: Saw Painters At 02:37 PM 4/1/2006, Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS wrote: >Tom wrote: > > For the strong of stomach, here's a site I found on saw painting: > >http://tinyurl.com/mgyhs Somebody has WAY too much time on their hands........... Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158882 ---- From: "David C." Date: 2006-04-01 12:18:52 Subject: Tool Porn I was up in Vancouver, BC yesterday on a m*t*rcycle outing when I had the opportunity to stop in at the Lee Valley store. Talk about eye candy, the place is great, and the folks working there very helpful and knowledgeable about what they sell. I was particularly impressed with their version of a patternmaker's vise http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31143&cat=1,41637; Stop in if you have a chance; it's worth the visit. Dave C Machias, WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158883 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-04-01 14:23:05 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt Charlie, I guess they must have sold them all before I got to their website. All I got was an error message saying "Item Not Found". It must have been a popular item! Were they very expensive? I have been trying to get one of these belts for a long time, but they are hard to find. If you really need one and can't find it, I have found that you can create an acceptable substitute by wearing a regular Norm-type belt upside down. One word of caution if you try this: Don't use it for carrying heavy or sharp objects -. DAMHIKT. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Driggs" To: ; Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [OldTools] LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt > The disclaimer is great ... > > From: "Gary P. Laroff" >>I can't believe no one has posted this yet. >>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p > > Ahhh, yes .. what's the date?? You betcha .... > > Charlie Driggs > Newark DE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158884 ---- From: "David C." Date: 2006-04-01 12:27:45 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt At 06:52 AM 4/1/2006 -0800, Gary P. Laroff wrote: >Subject: [OldTools] LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt >To: > >I can't believe no one has posted this yet. > >http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p > Ineffective for use with bronze tools (the bronze age is over). Hmmmmm....... Dave C Machias WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158885 ---- From: "Bruce Love" Date: 2006-04-01 15:37:41 Subject: RE: Saw Painters Reminds me that last summer, my wife was having a yard sale. I figured I would try to clear a couple of things I didn't want - so I put a few tools in a bin. Included was a reasonable Craftsman handsaw. It was an okay saw, but I had no real need for it (okay, I have another like it as well). Well...someone bought the saw for a couple of dollars (I think I got it as part of a group of saws that included a panel saw I wanted for $2). After it sold I went on and on about how it was a nice saw, but that I didn't need it, and they got a reasonable deal, blah..blah...blah. My wife looked a little sheepish for a while then finally she said "I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I overhead the couple that bought it say that she was going to paint it...." Sigh. Next time, I think I will interview any prospective buyers before letting "my precious" - I mean - my saws, go. But in all seriousness, I am glad that Eric finally provided this valuable info as well http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/nibpage.html Bruce Love Pipersville, PA (who blew off the CRAFTS auction today - but wonders if anyone else was there...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158886 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-04-01 16:39:17 Subject: Handsaw Question This old saw I'm cleaning looks like the blade is blue tempered steel. The etch states it is "spring steel". Has anyone ever seen or known of a saw from ca 1880 that is blue tempered? It could be "patina", but it looks blue to me. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158887 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-01 14:20:24 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question On Saturday 01 April 2006 04:39 pm, Bill Rittner wrote: > This old saw I'm cleaning looks like the blade is blue tempered steel. The > etch states it is "spring steel". Has anyone ever seen or known of a saw > from ca 1880 that is blue tempered? It could be "patina", but it looks blue > to me. Yes, in fact many of the saws from Britan are blue steel from the 1800s, at least I believe this to be the case. I have several blue steel blades in old english saws. Some of the American saws used blue steel also, case in point would be the Simonds which didn't use blue steel, vs the Bay State Saw MFG saws which I belive did (the one I have does). With this in mind, I have mostly only backsaws to draw on, and not sure about larger saws. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158888 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-04-01 19:48:51 Subject: New Saw Pics Posted As promised I have put some pics of my recently found Bassett Jarvis and Morris handsaw. http://members.cox.net/wcrittner/newsawpg.htm Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158889 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-04-01 19:50:26 Subject: Oldtools Database Question Will the database template found at the bottom og the page on Galoot Image Central work on Access 2002? Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158890 ---- From: "Bruce Dissel" Date: 2006-04-02 01:13:16 Subject: April Fools Day at the Disstonian Institute Galoots Sorry if there are a thousand posts on this already....A quick look at the DI site today about sent me for a loop untill I realized what day it was.Hope you all saw it, too much for words. Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158891 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-04-01 19:32:04 Subject: Re: Oldtools Database Question Bill, I opened with with '97 and everything more recent... Jim E #2 in Wisconsin On 4/1/06, Bill Rittner wrote: > Will the database template found at the bottom og the page on Galoot Image > Central work on Access 2002? > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158892 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-04-01 20:41:15 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Saturday 01 April 2006 04:39 pm, Bill Rittner wrote: >> This old saw I'm cleaning looks like the blade is blue tempered >> steel. The etch states it is "spring steel". Has anyone ever seen or >> known of a saw from ca 1880 that is blue tempered? It could be >> "patina", but it looks blue to me. > > Yes, in fact many of the saws from Britan are blue steel from the > 1800s, at least I believe this to be the case. I have several blue > steel blades in old english saws. Some of the American saws used blue > steel also, case in point would be the Simonds which didn't use blue > steel, vs the Bay State Saw MFG saws which I belive did (the one I > have does). > > With this in mind, I have mostly only backsaws to draw on, and not > sure about larger saws. > I think you are mistaking patina for bluing. The Simonds catalogs I have do not indicate that Bay State saws had blued steel blades. The one I had didn't have a blued blade. Also, I've never seen an old backsaw that had a blued steel blade. Some of them had blued backs, this was common with pre-war Disstons but not blades. Bluing is fragile - any oxidation and it disappears pretty quickly. Why would a saw manufacturer want to blue the blade anyway? The bluing would wear off fairly quickly and look like heck. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158893 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-04-01 20:23:54 Subject: Auction Report, with pics Short Version: Went to an auction, bought some tools. Some price gloatable, some not. All good. Long Version: Last Sunday, I mapped out this month's auctions from the newspaper. Sadly, I have to earn a living, so most of the weekday auctions are out for me. (I hated having to miss one last week. There is a large, gated community near my city and there is always an older gentleman "downsizing" or holding his estate sale from the Great Beyond. Thursday was no exception; the ad even said "woodworking tools". D'oh!) Anyway, the next good one isn't until the 8th, but I stumbled on a last-minute auction for this morning, so I got up and headed out with my coffee around 9am. This one was advertised as "GUNS, KNIVES and TOOLS". I've learned that anywhere guns and knives are, there are tools I might want to fondle. I pull up and the place is packed with pickup trucks. Never a good sign. I found the tool tables, spied several items I was interested in and went to get a number. I soon discovered I had lost my driver's license. *ack!* About a half hour later, I had retrieved it at the bank (whew!) and made my way back to the auction. Got a number and took a seat. Unfortunately, there was a veritable army's worth of guns and knives, so I waited longer than I normally have to. Things started to look up, though, once the guns and knives were gone. The place turned into a ghost town and left only about 15 bidders. At 3pm, the tool selling finally began. I noticed a friend of mine nearby. He's a dealer at a flea market I frequent when rust hunting and I buy from him regularly. Luckily, I've become friendly with Tommy and his wife, so he purposely didn't bid against me. (Even though he would normally buy everything I did and resell it to me at his flea booth. This time, I just skipped him in the chain and saved a ton of money. He did say with a smile, "You owe me now.") Luckily, my main competition, a straight junk-dealer, has a buy-super- cheap-and-sell-super-high approach, so it wasn't too tough to outbid him. I did discover that if I barked my proposal bid and stated my counter bids quickly and intently, he seemed to shy away from chasing me up on the price. (Psychology, Jeff. Psychology.) So, without further ado, here's the haul: (Description just mentions my main reasons for buying that particular lot. Most lots came with other stuff in the picture.) Millers Falls standard angle block plane and Stanley #5 - $15. http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_1.jpg Box of beater chisels (junk, Jeff) The gems are laid out in front, including 2 stanley Everlasts. My first. There's a broken-off 750 that just breaks my heart. And a box full of clamps, including a bonus, didn't-see-it-till-i-got-home Starrett machinist clamp. All for $25. http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_2.jpg http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_3.jpg Two boxes of files and rasps. Flat, round, etc. Many with handles. - $12.50 http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_4.jpg http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_7.jpg Millers Falls 2-A eggbeater drill, WITH all the bits. And a North Bros. yankee push drill, WITH all the bits. (I have several of these, but no bits.) A grungy Millers Falls yankee push drill. - All for $30. http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_5.jpg Box of squares and measuring tools. A couple of junkers, but the gems are in front: Starrett 12" combo square with protractor head. Bubble and scratch all intact. Small Starrett combo square. Bubble and awl missing. - All for $15. http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/auction_6.jpg I also went to a garage sale on Friday and nabbed this Stanley #624 eggbeater drill WITH bits for a fair, but non-gloatable sum of $25. The Bit Gods have been smiling on me at last. http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/img/tmp/stanley_624.jpg -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158894 ---- From: Date: 2006-04-01 21:33:07 Subject: Re: Caleb's Day Out (a flea market report) On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:04:16 -0800 (PST) Patrick Olguin wrote: > [executive summary - our new boy has his first trip to > the flea market] > As the kid's falling out of the stroller I kept expecting you to say you were tugging on his leg... Have to admit that I look forward every year to Paddy's annual April 1 yarn. Good to hear fom you, sir. Rob in Peoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158895 ---- From: Chuck Taylor Date: 2006-04-01 20:27:18 Subject: Made a burnisher Gentle Galoots, Today was supposed to be the first flea market of the season around here, but it was rained out. So I decided to make myself a burnisher. I started from a "kit": http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3785 The "kit" consisted of a well-used intake valve from a Chevrolet 454 (big monster V-8 engine, Jeff) and a branch from a crabapple tree. Here's the finished product (well, I haven't really put any finish on the handle yet): http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3786 It's nothing fancy, but it'll do the job and it feels good in my hand. SWMBO's comment when I showed it to her was, "Which do you like more, making things or making tools?" Good question. Cheers, Chuck Taylor in soggy Everett, WA, USA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158896 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-04-01 20:29:06 Subject: Re: Auction Report, with pics On 1 Apr 2006 at 20:23, T.J. Mahaffey wrote: > Short Version: Went to an auction, bought some tools. Some price > gloatable, some not. All good. > You suck. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158897 ---- From: Chuck Taylor Date: 2006-04-01 20:56:21 Subject: Finished a spokeshave Esteemed Gentle Galoots (EGGs), This is a project I finished about a week ago, and it only took 15 months. In the 2004 Galootaclaus gift exchange, fellow Galoot Brian Pennington sent me some wood all the way from Cairo, Egypt. It was sold to him as "balesander", but whatever it really is, it's gorgeous stuff. Brian also sent me a Hock spokeshave iron (which I used in another spokeshave), but this spokeshave was made with a kit from Lee Valley that was given to me by Swmbette #1 that same Christmas. Finish is tung oil followed by shellac. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3788 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3789 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3790 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3791 Shaping the handles was interesting. I ended up using a saw, chisels, gouges, another wooden spokeshave, a MF cigar shave, a rasp, and a card scraper. Oh, can't forget the shaving horse. Cheers, Chuck Taylor Everett, WA, USA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158898 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-01 21:03:35 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question On Saturday 01 April 2006 05:41 pm, Tom Price wrote: > I think you are mistaking patina for bluing. Oh, ok...I take your word for it. They definitely used blue steel for the backs, but I 'spose Simonds/BayState didn't use any blue steel for the blades, from what you say. The steel on the Bay State backsaw I have is quite different from the silvery colored steel on my Simonds 96, and looks like blue steel to me. > Also, I've never seen an old backsaw that > had a blued steel blade. I think you're wrong about that but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt. I have saws that appear to be blue steel, but I could be wrong, and maybe coincidence where patina looks like blue steel. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158899 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-04-02 07:17:21 Subject: Saw Cleaning Opinions Upon closer examination the BASSETT JARVIS & MORRIS saw is not blued. The surface color is that of "patina". We all know that is an antique dealer's way of glorifying iron oxide......rust! >From what I learned here it is possible that this saw has some historical significance. I'm not talking about monetary value here. This saw will not be sold. It will go into my collection to be used for it's intended purpose. The question now is do I "clean" the saw as I usually do with abrasive papers and remove the "patina" or should I preserve this appearance for the saw's future value? On another note I could have some local artist paint a nice country scene on it and hang it over my workbench. That would preserve the "patina". I look forward to your thought and opinions. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158900 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-04-02 08:00:23 Subject: FT or FS: Stanley 12 1/2 in excellent condition I've now got an extra 12 1/2 . There's some minor surface rust on the cheeks that will clean of easily with a touch of steel wool. The blade has more significant surface rust but no apparent pitting. The rust is limited to the area above the hold-down. The blade retainer screw has the sweet heart logo stamped into the brass, which has no patina from use. Every bit of the Japanning seems to be there except for a small arc on each inside cheek where the corner of the hold down cut through. The sole is clean. It's obviously been used, but it's equally obvious that it wasn't used much. (I bought it off a very nice elderly gentleman who explained that the 60 was his "go to" tool; he didn't use his 93 or 12 1/2 much.) Not mint, but excellent condition. I'd like to trade for a quality set of palm chisels, preferably boxed. Or $60 plus shipping. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158901 ---- From: "Frank Filippone" Date: 2006-04-02 07:42:51 Subject: Ell Killer tool My wife is a bobbin lacer. She belongs to several email groups that are centered throughout the world. Once in a while, she gets an odd request...... here is the latest.... I have been asked by a friend to ask my resources (aka lace-chat) if anyone knows of a supplier for a tool which is used to kill eels in Poland, Germany etc. Apparently this thing consists of two prongs to hold the eel down and a 3rd prong which is operated from the long handle and shoots through its head even a proper name for this tool would be a help so I could search on Google. My friend is anxious to acquire large numbers of these tools for use in Australia's Northern Territory to kill the Cane Toads which have invaded from Queensland. Or maybe it was April Fools Day, yesterday? Frank Filippone red735i@e... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158902 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-04-02 10:43:05 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt On Apr 1, 2006, at 3:27 PM, David C. wrote: {snip} > > Ineffective for use with bronze tools (the bronze age is > over). > > Hmmmmm....... > > Dave C > Machias WA Of course they say that - Lie-Nielsen is a competitor. Did Stanley tell Millers-Falls? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158903 ---- From: "Erik von Sneidern" Date: 2006-04-02 10:54:13 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question I think you are mistaking patina for bluing. The Simonds catalogs I have > do not indicate that Bay State saws had blued steel blades. The one I > had didn't have a blued blade. Also, I've never seen an old backsaw that > had a blued steel blade. Some of them had blued backs, this was common > with pre-war Disstons but not blades. Bluing is fragile - any oxidation > and it disappears pretty quickly. IIRC bluing is linseed oil wiped over heated steel. At least I've created it that way. It provides a degree of rust protection, but it can be removed with abrasion. Not something that would hold up on a saw blade. I think the best rust prevention for saws is use, which is what they got when bought in the 19th century. Erik von Sneidern www.disstonianinstitute.com your home for amputation saws ; ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158904 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-04-02 11:10:14 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool Frank Filippone wrote: > > > >Apparently this thing consists of two prongs to hold the eel down and a 3rd >prong which is operated from the long handle and shoots through its head >even a proper name for this tool would be a help so I could search on >Google. > >My friend is anxious to acquire large numbers of these tools for use in >Australia's Northern Territory to kill the Cane Toads which have invaded >from Queensland. > > >Or maybe it was April Fools Day, yesterday? > >Frank Filippone >red735i@e... > > > Did they want the left or right handed version? :-) Tim Gonna be another nice one in NJ today! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158905 ---- From: "Tony Zaffuto" Date: 2006-04-02 13:17:31 Subject: repairing old woodies I've got a few old "coffin" style smoothing planes (well maybe 8 or 10). Anyhow a few of them have cracks (well maybe 5 or 6 of them). Anyone on the porch have a repair method? Most of the cracks are abuse type of driving the wedge and splitting the sides, however one of the planes has a crack that seems to follow the grain in an odd way. I have tried spreading the crack and injecting some glue however the results were far less than satisfactory. I've been thinking of several methods: The first would be to try one of the glue dispensers for tightening up chair tenons. The glue is injected into the tenon joint and is supposed to not only glue but swell the wood. This product is available from Lee Valley. The second method would be to seek out a local zinc plating source that processes powder metal parts. The powder metal parts are about 85% of thereotical density so for the plating to take, the platers must impregnate the parts with a resin. I am hoping the resin also has the ability to repair a crack in wood! Either repair will mean I must seek out a method to "draw out" years of oil, wax or whatever else the old woodies had applied to the surface. Kind of wondering how this will smell if I try boiling it out? Maybe set them in the sun for a day or three. Am I off my rocker? Does anyone have any other suggestions? Have a good one! Tony Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158906 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-04-02 11:45:16 Subject: RE: repairing old woodies Hey Tony and All, I have similar situation. Yesterday I pulled out some molding planes that I got sometime ago for the purpose of learning how to fix cracks. I think I got 4 planes for $5. They have major cracks and I thought that this would be good place to start learning restoration of wooden planes. Hope someone will come up with suggestions. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > To: 'porch' > Subject: [OldTools] repairing old woodies > > I've got a few old "coffin" style smoothing planes (well > maybe 8 or 10). > Anyhow a few of them have cracks (well maybe 5 or 6 of them). > > Anyone on the porch have a repair method? Most of the cracks > are abuse type of driving the wedge and splitting the sides, > however one of the planes has a crack that seems to follow > the grain in an odd way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158907 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-04-02 12:43:51 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool This might help: http://www.antiquetools.co.uk/eel.html http://www.country-gallery.com/eelspears.html When I was a kid we gigged eels in a salt water tidal stream. We got .50 an eel from a local buyer who smoked them. Our gig was not fancy like those in the pictures. We used a 4 pointed gig with the two outer tines longer than the two inner ones, which had barbs. Though the eels were easy to see in the water, they were hard to gig because they were 6' deep and the current was quite strong so the drag on the spear was appreciable for an 11 year old kid. John Frank Filippone wrote: > My wife is a bobbin lacer. She belongs to several email groups that are > centered throughout the world. Once in a while, she gets an odd > request...... here is the latest.... > > I have been asked by a friend to ask my resources (aka lace-chat) if anyone > knows of a supplier for a tool which is used to kill eels in Poland, Germany > etc. > > Apparently this thing consists of two prongs to hold the eel down and a 3rd > prong which is operated from the long handle and shoots through its head > even a proper name for this tool would be a help so I could search on > Google. > > My friend is anxious to acquire large numbers of these tools for use in > Australia's Northern Territory to kill the Cane Toads which have invaded > from Queensland. > > > Or maybe it was April Fools Day, yesterday? > > Frank Filippone > red735i@e... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158908 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-04-02 12:59:52 Subject: Re: LV Tool of the Year -- Pouchless Tool Belt Well it seemed like a nice tool, but the price... So I made one myself. Used old suspenders, a leather belt, and , because there is always room for improvement, more powerful magnets. Well first thing is you ought be careful going to the fridge for a beer. That sucker just plasters you right up against the door like an overanxious octopus eager to mate. After the kids and SWMBO got me disentangled from the fridge, I went out to the workshop to give her a try in actual tool holding use. One of the strands sucked up a #8 from the bench. A bi heavy on that side for a moment, but then another tentacle grabbed a pile of chisels. Pretty slick I thought. Then things got a little confused. What they don't explain is that when it grabs a steel tool like my Disston, the Disston itself becomes magnetic, and increasing the reach by 28 or so inches, grabs mroe tools, which in turn themselves become magentized. Pretty soon you look like a heap at the salvage yard, though of course everything is nicely waxed and well cared for unlike the salvage yard. So I reluctantly put it away for daily use. But it is practical. Next tool swap meet, I am wearing it. You'll see me coming through the door at opening time, tentacles awaving, grabbing all the prime stuff long before you old fashioned galoots have reached for the first prime infill. As long as I can keep up my forward momentum, you guys will be out of luck. Regards, John Lederer Oregon, Wisconsin Gary P. Laroff wrote: > I can't believe no one has posted this yet. > > http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p > > Gary Laroff, in Portland, Oregon, where it is starting to look like spring, > especially when it's not raining. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158909 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-04-02 11:03:27 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool Why would they be looking for scarce eel killers when frog gigs are a dime a dozen? Especially when it sounds like dozens and dozens of frog gigs are what they need? yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158910 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-04-02 11:12:44 Subject: Re: repairing old woodies Not trying to say I'm an expert at this or anything But what works for me is acetone and compressed air. Pry open the crack with a small wedge or something. Flood with acetone and blow @ 90 or so psi. Acetone dissolves both oil based schmutz and sugar based gook. It stinks to high heaven though so do it outside! Keep doing this until its' clean as you can get it. Then dry for a little (acetone dries real fast) and then go with glue, blowing that in as well. A couple of applications is usually enough. Clamp well. On curved surfaces, thick rubber bands pulled tight and plenty of them will work. yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158911 ---- From: "Bramel, Jim" Date: 2006-04-02 14:22:06 Subject: Atkins saw help Went to an auction Friday night and bought a neat little Atkins saw. It is 21 1/2 inches from the tip of the blade to the tip of the horn on the handle and has a nice nib. The etch is good except for one small spot. It is as follows - SILVER STEEL (crown) THE ?EX SAW (There is an unreadable letter where the question mark is) UNEXCELLED IN MATERIAL, WORKMANSHIP & FINISH MANUFACTURED BY E. C. ATKINS & CO. INDIANAPOLIS, IND I have looked in Erv's book and can't find it. Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158912 ---- From: "Frank Filippone" Date: 2006-04-02 11:29:47 Subject: RE: Ell Killer tool OK.. I'll bite... what's a frog gig? Certainly not a show business event? or is it? Frank Filippone red735i@e... Why would they be looking for scarce eel killers when frog gigs are a dime a dozen? Especially when it sounds like dozens and dozens of frog gigs are what they need? yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158913 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-04-02 13:46:58 Subject: Re: repairing old woodies Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: >Hey Tony and All, > >I have similar situation. Yesterday I pulled out some molding >planes that I got sometime ago for the purpose of learning how >to fix cracks. I think I got 4 planes for $5. They have >major cracks and I thought that this would be good place to >start learning restoration of wooden planes. > >Hope someone will come up with suggestions. > >Wiktor A. Kuc >Albuquerque, NM >505-323-8482 >www.OldToolsShop.com >www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > >>To: 'porch' >>Subject: [OldTools] repairing old woodies >> >>I've got a few old "coffin" style smoothing planes (well >>maybe 8 or 10). >>Anyhow a few of them have cracks (well maybe 5 or 6 of them). >> >>Anyone on the porch have a repair method? Most of the cracks >>are abuse type of driving the wedge and splitting the sides, >>however one of the planes has a crack that seems to follow >>the grain in an odd way. >> >> > > > Esteemed Galoots, There must be something in the air! This morning I was cleaning up a Josiah N. King Razee triplane with a few prominent longitudinal cracks, and was wondering about best practices for repair. No sooner do I open email than there are three current posts on this exact topic! I repaired a throat crack using glue as advocated by Scott. Since PVA glues are not renowned for their gap filling properties, I am wondering if a slow setting epoxy might be a good route for the longitudinal cracks and gaps. I suspect that forcing the gaps to close would just induce a crack elsewhere. Any / all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. Tim Perplexed that the squirrels munched up a nice crop of budding acorns overnght..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158914 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-04-02 14:04:00 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool It's a long stick with a menacing looking fork on the end. Known around my neck of the woods as a "frog gigger". -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... On Apr 2, 2006, at 1:29 PM, Frank Filippone wrote: > OK.. I'll bite... what's a frog gig? > > Certainly not a show business event? or is it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158915 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-04-02 12:13:49 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool On second thought, don't they have boys there?? Contact the Daisy company and drop ship a cargo container of Red Ryders and ammo. Offer a 1cent bounty and they'll have all the frogs in creation piled up in no time at all. Not a totally safe proposition to be sure (here we go with the "shoot your eye out" stories), but giving the same boys frog gigs is even more dangerous! yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158916 ---- From: "Ed in Ottawa" Date: 2006-04-02 14:45:35 Subject: Re: repairing old woodies GreetinGs GalooTs! Here is a link to a woody plane repair. This one may interest Ludo as well, as it is a Kanna, and the ex-pat Canadian owner lives in Tokyo. http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/treasure.htm Scroll down to "I'd buy that for a dollar!". regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158917 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-04-02 16:02:12 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool Weren't they importing the Goliath dung beetle to kill frogs -- the frog would eat the beetle and the beetle would walk out the frog's side. Maybe the toads are too smart? Larry Frank Filippone wrote: >(snip) > >My friend is anxious to acquire large numbers of these tools for use in >Australia's Northern Territory to kill the Cane Toads which have invaded >from Queensland. >(snip) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158918 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-04-02 15:05:44 Subject: RE: Saw Cleaning Opinions Bill & GGs, Can't help with best saw cleaning strategies, but I have been re-thinking the painted saw dilemma. Maybe and just maybe painted saws will be some of the last old tools available to the future Galoots-In-Training. As we old farts collect and hoard our best tools there will be fewer tools available to future generations--at least at affordable prices. But, crappy art stuff populates garage sales almost inevitably. They are often the modern equivalent of a trip to the old local dump. I doubt painted saws will become prized heirlooms. Maybe a future generation will buy these nasty painted saws and scrape off the paint just as we scrape off the rusty "patina" of our current finds. Maybe the crappy art will unwittingly save some old saws from the rust heap. After all, we saviours of old tools can't be everywhere! Now, don't stone me--at least till you give the idea some thought. Nobody has a more visceral disdain for painted saws and tools than I do. But, how many true masterpieces of art have been found under the layers of paint laid down by a lesser artist? Canvasses are frequently recycled. While I don't intend to encourage saw painting and other such abominations and ersatz art, I am just wondering if out of this bad practice some good may result? Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Bill Rittner > Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:17 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Saw Cleaning Opinions > > Upon closer examination the BASSETT JARVIS & MORRIS saw is not blued. The > surface color is that of "patina". We all know that is an antique dealer's > way of glorifying iron oxide......rust! > > >From what I learned here it is possible that this saw has some historical > significance. I'm not talking about monetary value here. This saw will not > be sold. It will go into my collection to be used for it's intended > purpose. > > The question now is do I "clean" the saw as I usually do with abrasive > papers and remove the "patina" or should I preserve this appearance for > the > saw's future value? > > On another note I could have some local artist paint a nice country scene > on > it and hang it over my workbench. That would preserve the "patina". > > I look forward to your thought and opinions. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" > (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158919 ---- From: "Tony Zaffuto" Date: 2006-04-02 16:10:12 Subject: Cracked woodies Wiktor, Scott, Tim and Ed, First, thanks for the quick responses (Wiktor, I got a few more old instruction sheets to get out to you!). Anyhow, back to the woodies: I took Scott's suggestions and poured some acetone on the crack and took the air hose to it. Got a look of stuff back out. Tried to wedge the crack open--no go! Anyhow, I got another bright idea to help get gunk out. Got my old heat gun out and started heating up the plane body. Wow, the liquid that came out! Didn't smell like BLO so it might be years of wax on the sole. Don't know. Since I couldn't wedge the crack (now this is a sizeable crack, not quite as big as the one Ed referred to, but not so far from it), I tried a clamp to see if I could close it up. No go! Could it be some galoot a number of years ago has tried to fix this? Anyhow, as I mentioned in my first post, I believe this plane body may be a candidate for resin impregnation (remember the zinc plating process). Tomorrow I will confer with my plant engineer who knows these processes far better than I and if he thinks there is a fleeting chance of it working, off the plane body will go. If it comes back and is solid, maybe I'll have a new career! Can't hurt to try. I'll report back when I see how it works. Tony Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158920 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-04-02 16:17:55 Subject: Ell Killer tool The "ell killer tool thread is a nice segue into a report on the CRAFTS auction yesterday. They had the prettiest dame eel gig I have ever seen. It had the traditional 3 prongs, but on each side were another three very delicate prongs each ending in a stylish but deadly barb. Hand made and just wonderful. They did the get the spelling of "eel" right, but I was till not sure what a "fellow" saw is. Anyway, the pre-auction action was very good. I had just sold my Stanley 55 (you don't want to know, Jeff) NIB, actually NIWP (waxed paper), on Friday, so boy was I flush, and I found a user 55 (same as before, Jeff) missing long rods and cam, but with all blades in great shape in wooden boxes for $180!! It seems that the price of most tools were WAY DOWN right now - all planes noted here were in good shape with all parts and all wood - Stanley 8 jointer -$55, #66 very nice beader with blades $45, #55 complete in box with no top (why does this happen?) $250, beautiful 5-1/4 jack $60, #2 smoother $175, NIB 113 circular plane $140, nice A5 aluminum jack $55, Stanley 93 shoulder $80, and normal bench planes went for $10-20 - but how about a pre-lateral #4 smoother with a cracked tote and wood needing refinishing for -- FIVE DOLLARS! Sargent stuff went a little higher. Other things were pretty cheap too - I spent my limit at the flea and on a clever take down square, so I could only marvel at the cheapness of it all. Rules - even very exotic ones, went cheap. There were 4 brand new perfect handle wrenches from small to very large that hit $160 while 12 perfect handle screwdrivers, come in so-so shape, hit $140. Boxwood and rosewood plough planes did well. The wrought iron riveted bear trap hit $250. 3 panel raisers went for $25,40, and 60, the the last one being the most beat up so must have been the most collectible. The $40 one was quite spectacular with a wonderful knicker and avery wide bottom - perhaps 5-1-2". Two Emmert vises complete - one turtleback one regular flavor - $300 and $350. Always nice to see over 550 lots of good tools in one place at one time. Oh - and don't forget the Stanley #9 miter plane without the hot dog handle for $200. I didn't look that close because I thought it was out of my league, but I didn't see any damage. Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158921 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-02 14:35:41 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool On Sunday 02 April 2006 07:42 am, Frank Filippone wrote: > I have been asked by a friend to ask my resources (aka lace-chat) if anyone > knows of a supplier for a tool which is used to kill eels in Poland, > Germany etc. I'm sure they do it differently in Europe, but when I previously lived in Japan for 5 years, I would get a kick out of how they killed the eels in the tempura shops. Tsu-no-hachi was one of my favorite places, for that style. They had tanks of eels that were live, and they would grab them out of the tank, take them over to a wood slab with a hole in it, and literally take a large metal spike and pound it through the head, securing it in the board, and clean the skin and guts out of the usable meat. I can't remember if they used a hammer for that or if they just jab'd it in by hand. I used to get a kick out of complaining to the chef that the eel didn't taste fresh... The chef would look at me puzzled for a minute and explain that he just killed it, it was live a few minutes ago... Oh, did I mention that Japanese folks don't really joke around too much, and many of them had a hard time understanding my humor...;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158922 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-04-02 18:33:41 Subject: Knew better GGs, I'm in the process of finishing up a Shepherd smoother. Yup, it's taken me a little over two years to start on the project. I started on the little bullnose plane before I went to the full-sized "Spiers". Anyhow, the smoother is in it's last stages of construction. The last thing I have to do is rivet in the lever cap before I start with the final finishing and draw-filing. The infill and tote are cocobolo, and I had been working on them off and on over the past week. Well, last night I woke up with a terrible cough, and it was worse this morning. I've never had asthma, but that's what it felt like this morning - not being able to catch my breath after a coughing jag. Now, I have to say at this point that I knew better. I have a vacuum system in my workshop, as well as two air scrubbers. I will admit to using a mask last night, but it fogged up my glasses, so I discarded it. Did I use the vacuum system? No. Did I use the air scrubbers? No. Too much noise was my rationale. (Did I mention that I also have earmuffs? I did use them when I was peining over the dovetails and rivets.) So now it's turn on the air scrubbers, and get busy with the shop vac and clear all the dust from the working areas. And hook up an extension to the vacuum system to the bench where I'll be shaping the wood. And also find a mask that works. I'll post pictures when I finish the smoother. Cheers A wiser Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158923 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-02 15:46:10 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question On Sunday 02 April 2006 07:54 am, Erik von Sneidern wrote: > IIRC bluing is linseed oil wiped over heated steel. At least I've created > it that way. It provides a degree of rust protection, but it can be > removed > with abrasion. Not something that would hold up on a saw blade. I think > the best rust prevention for saws is use, which is what they got > when bought in the 19th century. Eric, I don't know what had been put on my blades, or if they were even blue steel, although they certainly appear to be on some. I think it's plausable that someone could have put something on them over the last 100-150 years on the ones that appear to be blue steel. I'm looking at one now that appears to be blue steel, it does have some wear were it appears it has worn through. Could be patina as Tom suggested, or someone could have put something on it during the past, that I don't know. It's not the only blade I have like that though. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158924 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-04-02 19:39:42 Subject: Little Black Books Concerned Accumulators, I cooked another chicken dinner today for the Wid.....ah, for some guy named Fred. She, ah, I mean he was so happy that she, ah, he presented me with "Audel's Engineers and Mechanics Guide", volumes 1 thru 6, 1943 version. She, ah, he said that her, his family had gone through the books and these were going to the landfill if I didn't take them. So bein' the kind hearted philantropical type, I helped , ah, Fred, out. I did manage to clean up the wintah's accumulated tools, shavings, and broken unrepairable toys off my workbench, and then even did a bit of chisel sharpening. LFOD Nashua is less than one month away. If you live in New England and do not know what LFOD is, you should ask. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158925 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-04-02 16:57:06 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question On 2 Apr 2006 at 15:46, Alan DuBoff wrote: > > I'm looking at one now that appears to be blue steel, it does have some wear > were it appears it has worn through. Could be patina as Tom suggested, or > someone could have put something on it during the past, that I don't know. > It's not the only blade I have like that though. > See, what you have there is a saw that was filed so fast that the steel over-heated and turned blue. The blade is obviously ruined and in order to save you the heartbreak of dealing with this I would be happy to dispose of it for you. No charge. Really. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158926 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-04-02 20:01:34 Subject: Re: Little Black Books Alan Perreault wrote: > Concerned Accumulators, > > I cooked another chicken dinner today for the Wid.....ah, for some guy > named Fred. She, ah, I mean he was so happy that she, ah, he presented > me with "Audel's Engineers and Mechanics Guide", volumes 1 thru 6, 1943 > version. She, ah, he said that her, his family had gone through the > books and these were going to the landfill if I didn't take them. So > bein' the kind hearted philantropical type, I helped , ah, Fred, out. > Well, I'm sure the Wid.. er, 'Fred' felt happy to trade a fine meal for some books that are worthless to her and her family. I don't see this as exploitation at all, people value different things. Good for you. This is what we in Big Biddness call a 'win-win'. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158927 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-04-03 08:39:23 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship Part 3 Peter, Keep the installments coming. I for one thoroughly enjoy your writings. It would be great to read topical contributions from others on this list of their life experiences during the woodworking handtool era of their lives. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158928 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-04-02 22:04:22 Subject: Router Plane.. I received a Stanley 71 router plane yesterday. Looks really nice (I'll post some pix next week along with the 45 that I should be getting early this week.) The question I have is does anyone know of any good references on line or books about using such a plane?? The Plane book mentions it but there is little detail. One the rest of the galoot front, I made a honing pad and I also finished my laping board and sharpened the #4 plane. I'm still playing with the adjustments to get nice curls and not gouging the practice wood. (Any tips would be appreciated on this as well.) Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158929 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-04-02 22:08:56 Subject: Re: chisel geometry Ken Greenberg wrote: > > I admit that I probably only ever grind a chisel once. But I have seen > recommendations that when the hollow grind disappears and the bevel is > completely flat, you should go back to the grinder and restablish the > hollow grind. Does anyone really do this? > > Well yes in fact I do. I use the Tormec grinder early and often. The only tools I never grind are Japanese and I seldom grind my carving knives once I have them established unless I damage one. For me first among several good reasons that I do so is the removal of chips, in the steel, that often happen in my work. These are minute but must be removed to get back to sharp and the same amount of metal must be removed regardless of how so I do it the quick way. Time being of the essence. I'm not the only one most of the luthiers I know grind first and ask later. Unless one is trying to baby a very special favorite tool and extend it's life by removing the absolute minimum of steel each sharpening. Back to the original question of this thread I have long been aware of the fact that when honing by hand one will tend to wear the bevel in an uneven manner. With practice and thought and experience one will develop techniques to minimize this problem. You may notice that you tend to hone unevenly to one side or the other predominately. This is because one being either right or left handed has a tendency to naturally put more pressure on one side. I do things like use an equal number of push and pull strokes on the water stones. If I had my truthers I'd just push. If the tool is wide enough I alternate pressure by putting my finger first at one corner then the other. Even with all this careful fore thought things still get out of square. Which is a very good reason number two to grind often. Either the Tormec or LV grinding jigs are designed to square the tool which is a boon I don't pass up. I also feel the need to maintain fairly exact bevel angles. The grinding jig takes care of this fore me and I don't have to mess with the honing jigs. With respect, Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158930 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-04-02 19:18:28 Subject: Re: Re: Apprenticeship Part 3 On Apr 2, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Peter Huisman wrote: > > Keep the installments coming. > I for one thoroughly enjoy your writings. > > It would be great to read topical contributions > from others on this list of their life experiences > during the woodworking handtool era of their lives. > I don't really remember how much I told this group about my apprenticeship, but I do remember writing about it a few years back. Maybe it is time to revisit that? Mine was not all that much wood work, because I apprenticed as a Millwright. We learned about wooden gears and that sort of thing, but not carpentry as such. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158931 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-04-02 22:31:31 Subject: Re: Made a burnisher Chuck I have made 4 or 5 burnishers. I like to use rat tail files which are dull. I have 2 which are made from mouse tail files, so to speak. I use them not for scrapers but for burnishing parchments on my cello bridges. I take them to a high polish which is a lapidary skill. Ken Chuck Taylor wrote: >Gentle Galoots, > >Today was supposed to be the first flea market of the >season around here, but it was rained out. So I >decided to make myself a burnisher. > >I started from a "kit": > >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >The "kit" consisted of a well-used intake valve from a >Chevrolet 454 (big monster V-8 engine, Jeff) and a >branch from a crabapple tree. Here's the finished >product (well, I haven't really put any finish on the >handle yet): > >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >It's nothing fancy, but it'll do the job and it feels >good in my hand. SWMBO's comment when I showed it to >her was, "Which do you like more, making things or >making tools?" Good question. > >Cheers, > >Chuck Taylor >in soggy Everett, WA, USA > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To change your subscription options: >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158932 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-04-02 22:38:06 Subject: Re: repairing old woodies All, I like super glue and sawdust actually sanding dust for this. I use some of the dust from sanding the sole true and fast drying super glue. At first these repairs may seem to glare but a little linseed oil and a coating of finger crude and it just looks kind of medulary. And anyway if it needs this repair it's never likely to be worth very much. Ken Tim Pendleton wrote: > > > Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > >> Hey Tony and All, >> >> I have similar situation. Yesterday I pulled out some molding planes >> that I got sometime ago for the purpose of learning how to fix >> cracks. I think I got 4 planes for $5. They have major cracks and I >> thought that this would be good place to start learning restoration >> of wooden planes. >> >> Hope someone will come up with suggestions. >> >> Wiktor A. Kuc >> Albuquerque, NM >> 505-323-8482 >> www.OldToolsShop.com >> www.wkFineTools.com >> >> >> >> >> >>> To: 'porch' >>> Subject: [OldTools] repairing old woodies >>> >>> I've got a few old "coffin" style smoothing planes (well maybe 8 or >>> 10). >>> Anyhow a few of them have cracks (well maybe 5 or 6 of them). >>> >>> Anyone on the porch have a repair method? Most of the cracks are >>> abuse type of driving the wedge and splitting the sides, however one >>> of the planes has a crack that seems to follow the grain in an odd way. >>> >> >> >> >> > Esteemed Galoots, > > There must be something in the air! This morning I was cleaning up a > Josiah N. King Razee triplane with a few prominent longitudinal > cracks, and was wondering about best practices for repair. No sooner > do I open email than there are three current posts on this exact topic! > > I repaired a throat crack using glue as advocated by Scott. Since PVA > glues are not renowned for their gap filling properties, I am > wondering if a slow setting epoxy might be a good route for the > longitudinal cracks and gaps. I suspect that forcing the gaps to > close would just induce a crack elsewhere. > > Any / all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. > > Tim > > Perplexed that the squirrels munched up a nice crop of budding acorns > overnght..... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158933 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-04-02 23:35:03 Subject: Re: Atkins saw help Jim: The missing letter in the saw description that you gave is an "R". It should read "THE REX SAW". Look in Erv's book Hand Saw Makers of North America on page 69. There are four listings for The Rex Saw, No. 66, 67, 68, and 69. Made from 1904 to 1919. I hope this helps, Bob Sturgeon. _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bramel, Jim" To: "oldtools" Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: [OldTools] Atkins saw help > Went to an auction Friday night and bought a neat little Atkins saw. > It is 21 1/2 inches > from the tip of the blade to the tip of the horn on the handle and has > a nice nib. The etch > is good except for one small spot. It is as follows - > > SILVER STEEL > (crown) > THE ?EX SAW (There is an unreadable > letter where the question mark is) > UNEXCELLED > IN MATERIAL, WORKMANSHIP & FINISH > MANUFACTURED BY > E. C. ATKINS & CO. > INDIANAPOLIS, IND > > I have looked in Erv's book and can't find it. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158934 ---- From: Chuck Taylor Date: 2006-04-02 21:35:29 Subject: Re: Finished a spokeshave Earlier I wrote: > In the 2004 Galootaclaus gift exchange, fellow Galoot Brian Pennington > sent me some wood all the way from Cairo, Egypt. It was sold to him as > "balesander", but whatever it really is, it's gorgeous stuff. Peter McBride suggested that perhaps it is "palisander" instead of "balesander". A little research on Google and Wikipedia suggests that Peter is absolutely correct. Google sent me to this German Wikipedia page: search%3Fq%3Dpalisander%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DqaP%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox- a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG shown here in translation. Palisander in German refers to wood of the Dalbergia family, know as "palissandre" in French and "rosewood" in English. It isn't clear whether I have the Brazilian variety (Dalbergia nigra) or the Indian variety (Dalbergia latifolia), or perhaps some of each. Here is the English Wikipedia page for rosewood, which shows the same botanical names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood Thanks, Peter, for the tip. Chuck Taylor In Everett, WA, USA, where it's not quite as soggy as it was yesterday. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158935 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-02 23:04:10 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question On Sunday 02 April 2006 04:57 pm, Spike wrote: > See, what you have there is a saw that was filed so fast that the > steel over-heated and turned blue. The blade is obviously ruined and > in order to save you the heartbreak of dealing with this I would be > happy to dispose of it for you. > No charge. > Really. Hehehe...yep, 'ya gotta watch that fast filing...;-) I've several blades that appear to be dark steel, wether blue or not I'm not sure, or if something was put on them...but I have seen people using blue steel available from McMasters to make saws from. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158936 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-04-03 18:30:55 Subject: Re: Got an Axe-Now What? Tom Holloway writes: > From what I can see your most pressing issue is the serious > mushrooming of the head. Although this condition is all too common in flea-market axes, almost as common as the attempts to disguise it by grinding, it indicates a serious misuse of the axe which may have resulted in the "blowing" of the cheeks. A full sized axe usually has an eye of 63 mm (2 1/2") x 22 mm (7/8"). "Half" axes are 53 mm x 20 mm and hatchets are 44 mm x 17 mm. These measurements should be checked and, if seriously out, that is, out by 2 mm or more across the eye at its widest point at either end, then reconsideration should be given as to whether any attempt should be made to rehabilitate the axe. Side wedges are an accident waiting to happen and side voids are downright murderous and in either event the head will eventually fly. If the cheeks are blown the standard sized eyepiece on a handle will leave voids. Best bet, if the eye is not too far out, is to get the handle turner to furnish a handle with an oversize eyepiece and then rasp and scrape it to shape and fit so that, as should always be the case, only the wooden midline wedge is needed. Steel cross-wedges are for hammers. Remember that the handle on the axeman's side of the eye should be a tapered fit requiring that the head be jarred down on to it, not a shoulder fit. The wedge should extend from the top to the bottom of the eye and usually is shaved to shape by the axehead at the bottom of the eye as it is driven after it has been provided with a short, tapered start. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158937 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-04-03 16:48:12 Subject: Re: Stropping a Blade Scott Grandstaff writes: > It's slabs of Tiajuana leather lopped off a 25 cent yard sale purse > and glued both sides to a scrap of softwood 1X4. The hair side out > one face and the skin the other. > The hair side is rubbed with emory or med al ox about once every 2 > or 3 years. The skin side, red rouge, applied even less. > 25 years never let me down. My old but steady-handed barber tells me that he dreses his razor strops with motor valve-grinding paste from the "fine" end of the container. I've never seen him draw blood yet. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158938 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-04-03 10:41:51 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question Bill Rittner wrote: > This old saw I'm cleaning looks like the blade is blue tempered steel. The > etch states it is "spring steel". Has anyone ever seen or known of a saw > from ca 1880 that is blue tempered? It could be "patina", but it looks blue > to me. As a data point, I know (but from memory) that some steel framing squares were "blued". BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158939 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-04-03 10:49:04 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool Frank Filippone wrote: > My wife is a bobbin lacer. She belongs to several email groups that are > centered throughout the world. Once in a while, she gets an odd > request...... here is the latest.... > > I have been asked by a friend to ask my resources (aka lace-chat) if anyone > knows of a supplier for a tool which is used to kill eels in Poland, Germany > etc. > > Apparently this thing consists of two prongs to hold the eel down and a 3rd > prong which is operated from the long handle and shoots through its head > even a proper name for this tool would be a help so I could search on > Google. > > My friend is anxious to acquire large numbers of these tools for use in > Australia's Northern Territory to kill the Cane Toads which have invaded > from Queensland. > > > Or maybe it was April Fools Day, yesterday? Just in case ya' want eel spears, they are a common "rustic" collectable round my way, probably due to the proximity of the Broads: http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk Eel Spears: http://www.antiquetools.co.uk/eel.html http://www.country-gallery.com/eelspears.html http://www.numismalink.com/drew.note3.html (interesting forum title, if true: Antique Tool Collectors Research Forum) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158940 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-04-03 10:54:45 Subject: Re: Router Plane.. Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I received a Stanley 71 router plane yesterday. Looks really nice > (I'll post some pix next week along with the 45 that I should be > getting early this week.) The question I have is does anyone know of > any good references on line or books about using such a plane?? The > Plane book mentions it but there is little detail. "planecraft"; a great reference on most of the common metal planes of the twentieth century. Available in reprint or s/h original. http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_i- d=155836&submit_thread=1#message BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158941 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-04-03 11:34:15 Subject: Re: chair devil Steve Lineback wrote: > cur > Any chance you could scan that article and send it to me?I have never > seen plans for one of those and obviously the issue is long gone. Woodcentral recently had this: http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/handtools.pl?frames;read=78075 http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/handtools.pl?frames;read=77753 http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/handtools/articles_645.shtml http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/shop/articles_736.shtml BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158942 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-04-03 09:04:39 Subject: RE: Router Plane.. This is better than anything else I've ever seen, and it's home-grown to boot. While it's technically about the LV plane, it applies to all router planes. http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVRouterPlane/index.asp Tom Ellis Dayton OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Wendy Sarrett > Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:04 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Router Plane.. > > I received a Stanley 71 router plane yesterday. Looks > really nice (I'll post > some pix next week along with the 45 that I should be getting > early this > week.) The question I have is does anyone know of any good > references on > line or books about using such a plane?? The Plane book > mentions it but > there is little detail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158943 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-04-03 06:11:52 Subject: Re: Stropping a Blade I have a can of 1000 grit "Clover" brand valve grinding compound that I have been using for a VERY long time. The finest grit it comes in is 1200. A one pound can costs a little more than $30. I keep my home made leather strops loaded with this stuff about once a year, and it keeps my carving tools as sharp as I want them to be. There is entirely too much rocket science involved in our sharpening. None of the ancient masters had any of the modern mechanical stuff that we keep discussing, and they seemed to do rather well. Speaking only for myself, I really do not care one little bit if a chisel is within .000x" of perfection. I just want it to cut cleanly. Keeping it simple is really the way to go. If you don't want to bother to learn to do it right, then by all means go spend several hundred dollars on some new device that will supposedly do it for you. It won't, but you will probably be happy anyway. The best money I ever spent on sharpening equipment was when I bought my hard felt wheel for $18. Life has been much simpler since then. The other $1000 worth of crap languishes in boxes somewhere. On Apr 2, 2006, at 11:48 PM, John Manners wrote: > Scott Grandstaff writes: > >> It's slabs of Tiajuana leather lopped off a 25 cent yard sale purse >> and glued both sides to a scrap of softwood 1X4. The hair side out >> one face and the skin the other. >> The hair side is rubbed with emory or med al ox about once every 2 >> or 3 years. The skin side, red rouge, applied even less. >> 25 years never let me down. > > My old but steady-handed barber tells me that he dreses his razor > strops > with motor valve-grinding paste from the "fine" end of the container. > I've > never seen him draw blood yet. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158944 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-04-03 10:00:01 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool A frog gig is a device with which two enterprising young boys go out in a canoe at night with a flashlight. The person in the rear shines a flashlight to spot the reflection of frog eyes. The person in front spears the frog with the frog gig, flips the spear to the back of the boat where the stern man removes the frog and puts it in a gunny sack. These are sold for $2.00 (circa 1958) a sack to be used as frog's legs in southern restaurants. Caution! A frog's eyes reflect yellow quite brightly. A dimmer glint indicates that this is not a frog, but rather a snake. Spearing the snake and flipping him into the boat will lead to immediate and precipitous abandonment of the boat, the partially filled sack, the spear, and the flashlight, and, indeed, the long term future of the whole enterprise. It will also cause considerable discussion between the two frog giggers as to some of the finer points of division of responsibility and relative intelligence/ Regards, John Lederer Frank Filippone wrote: > OK.. I'll bite... what's a frog gig? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158945 ---- From: "Bill Fariss" Date: 2006-04-03 11:24:17 Subject: RE: Re: Apprenticeship Part 3 I for one would be very glad to hear about that subject. We have a number of mills here in Northern Virginia. Bill Fariss Sterling, Va Snip ... I don't really remember how much I told this group about my apprenticeship, but I do remember writing about it a few years back. Maybe it is time to revisit that? Mine was not all that much wood work, because I apprenticed as a Millwright. We learned about wooden gears and that sort of thing, but not carpentry as such. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158946 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-04-04 00:07:29 Subject: Renovating an infill smoother Esteemed Galoots-of-the-Porch About a year ago I bought this unhandled 7 1/2" infill smoother on eBay. It was cheap and I thought it might make a good project - which I also thought I might share with you all as I proceed. The good points about this plane were that it was nicely dovetailed and very solid. There was no name that I could find, but inside was a stamped "5" (which might just represent the fifth plane made by the craftsman). The tapered Mathieson blade fitted created a tight mouth, but before anyone considers this a possible clue to identification, the cap iron is a Ward. On the other side the infills were in poor condition. The rear infill looked original, and I supect it is Rosewood. It was intact but a bit sorry. I though it a bit low and that it failed to support the blade properly. I did hone the blade and tried the plane out, but it did a poor job in spite of the tight mouth. Reason? The blade rocked on the warped bed. The front infill had been repaired with a top section of stained pine glued to a remnant of the original. All-in-all, there was no reason why I should not replace it all. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3797 http://tinyurl.com/mzcox I had a beautiful chunk of Tasmanian Blackwood for just this job. The other areas for replacement include the iron. The tapered Mathieson is out, and in comes a 3/16" cast steel parallel Something-or-other (it has a stamp that looks a lot like Mathieson, but instead says "Warranted" where the Mathieson name goes, and "Cast Steel" underneath). It started life at 2 1/4" wide, and I have ground it to 2". The lever screw was a crude, steel affair. I'm sure it was a replacement somewhere along the line. This is to go. Finally, the screws pinning the infill will be replaced with brass screws and filed flush with the sides. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3798 http://tinyurl.com/syrkw The question is what shape should the infill take? Should I build something traditional, or something a tad different (but still user friendly). I like the coffin shape, but I do not see the point of the squarish rear that just does not look comfortable and, indeed, seems to encourage one to push forwards and not downwards. My thoughts run to a rounded rear for comfort, angled at 45 degrees for downforce, and a third higher to support the iron fully. I cannot alter the bed angle, as much as I would like to increase the cutting angle, since this would mean re-siting the lever cap. So it will remain at 45 degrees (and, if needs be, the iron will have a backbevel). So what about the shape? Below is what I have in mind. Here are a few pictures for consideration. The first is another unhandled infill smoother, one that I have included as a basis for the modification. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3799 http://tinyurl.com/sycjg The second image is the modification. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3800 http://tinyurl.com/s7p79 Note that it is not extreme modification, just a little different (I cannot recall having seen one like this, but I cannot imagine why not - it just seems so logical). And just to show you where I am up to, the next image is of the shaping of the rear infill "blank". The essential step for a stuffed infill is to use the sole to mark out the outline. This was bandsawed, then the rebate shaped with a shoulder plane. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3802 http://tinyurl.com/qzaca And here is the rear infill blank in its current form (that is, awaiting on the final design before completing shaping): http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3801 http://tinyurl.com/k9zfe The last image is my attempt to make a knurled skew replacement for lever cap. Infill is Jarrah but will likely be replaced with Tasmanian Blackwood. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3803 http://tinyurl.com/n4872 Comments please. Regards from Perth Derek Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158947 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-04-03 10:05:48 Subject: Re: Renovating an infill smoother Hey Derek Good candidate! Bring that cranky tranny over too and we'll get to work. Blackwood indeed! You really suck lording that around under my nose, ya know. Then of course already having posession of a thick paralell iron..................arrrrrrrr Nice looking screw, btw. I like the smooth ducks tail rear for unhandled and I think there ought to be something to grab hold of on the front to carry the plane back to start for the next stroke. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/sweetie.htm yours, Scott -- Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 scottg@s... Tools Tools Kitty's PageWorks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158948 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-04-03 12:40:13 Subject: RE: Ell Killer tool GGs--It should also be noted that just because the frog has been gigged that it will no longer move. It was always a good idea to tie the gunny sack for transport in the trunk if traveling by car. One night after a particularly good hunt we just dropped the sack in the back and proceeded to drive away with beer in hand content in the knowledge that we'd have a feast within the next day or two. In our alcohol induced euphoria we forgot to tie the sack or to count the frogs. When we arrived home we had bloody frogs crawling all over the trunk. These we quickly dispatched and processed appropriately. Unfortunately we missed one of the frogs which managed to crawl into a position under the back seat of my friends 1968 Dodge Charger--mean ass muscle car Jeff. Within a few days there was a noticeable odor, but nothing that alcohol couldn't mask. But, within a week whenever the back seat was occupied the stench became almost unbearable. We finally decided to strip out the seats etc. to figure out what was going on and there under the rear seat was a badly decaying frog that gave off the worst odors every time someone sat in the backseat and squished its guts out a little more. We learned to tie the sack in the future and to drive with the windows down for many weeks to come. OT content: Frog gigs had long wooden handles generally made from a tall sapling or whatever wood was handy in the time of need. Nobody traveled without a knife for making new handles and dispatching the prey. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of John Lederer > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 10:00 AM > To: Frank Filippone > Cc: porch > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Ell Killer tool > > A frog gig is a device with which two enterprising young boys go out in > a canoe at night with a flashlight. The person in the rear shines a > flashlight to spot the reflection of frog eyes. The person in front > spears the frog with the frog gig, flips the spear to the back of the > boat where the stern man removes the frog and puts it in a gunny sack. > These are sold for $2.00 (circa 1958) a sack to be used as frog's legs > in southern restaurants. > > Caution! A frog's eyes reflect yellow quite brightly. A dimmer glint > indicates that this is not a frog, but rather a snake. Spearing the > snake and flipping him into the boat will lead to immediate and > precipitous abandonment of the boat, the partially filled sack, the > spear, and the flashlight, and, indeed, the long term future of the > whole enterprise. It will also cause considerable discussion between > the two frog giggers as to some of the finer points of division of > responsibility and relative intelligence/ > > Regards, > > John Lederer > > Frank Filippone wrote: > > OK.. I'll bite... what's a frog gig? > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158949 ---- From: "T.J. Mahaffey" Date: 2006-04-03 12:46:32 Subject: Unsticking brass adjustment knobs Assembled Galooterati, I'm cleaning up a #112 scraper plane and have so far been unable to get the inside brass adjustment knob to turn. I've been soaking it in penetrating oil for weeks and even tried some rubber-faced pliers to no avail. Does someone have a secret weapon against knob seizure? -- T.J. Mahaffey tj@t... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158950 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-04-03 14:47:40 Subject: Re: Renovating an infill smoother On 03 Apr, 2006, at 12:07 PM, Derek Cohen wrote: > Esteemed Galoots-of-the-Porch > > About a year ago I bought this unhandled 7 1/2" infill smoother on > eBay. It > was cheap and I thought it might make a good project - which I also > thought > I might share with you all as I proceed. > > ............ > And here is the rear infill blank in its current form (that is, > awaiting on > the final design before completing shaping): > > The last image is my attempt to make a knurled skew replacement for > lever > cap. Infill is Jarrah but will likely be replaced with Tasmanian > Blackwood. > > > Comments please. > > Regards from Perth > > Derek Cohen > Hello Derek - Good on ya! I really like the no-nonsense look of the Spiers and Mathieson smoothers. Reminds me of a Jeep. I think you're right on track with that. Gorgeous wood, by the way. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158951 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-04-03 14:47:28 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool There are many different types of eel gigs, I once had a conversation with a collector who had over 100 different gigs and told me he could not only tell what country they came from but even what part of the country just by what they look like. Saw a big book on them befor that showed lots of different types.Some of these gigs can get pretty pricey...I've sold a couple well over $150 on the ebay.Bought a nice one at an antique show and caused much talk when I cut the head off an 8 ft. shaft since no way was I going to mail that...Most of this eel spearing was done with eels being down in the mud during winter apperently and these spears are often made with a center section that will push though the mud and slide the eel over into the upward shaped barbs which pull it out of the mud and into the boat.You are not actually harpooning the eel like a whale. Here on the Eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay there are guys that illeagly capture small baby eels called elvas or grass eels, inch or so long and about like a string.They run up the rivers at night for a few nights and guys set a net and get a bunch which they sell to jappan for big bucks.I personaly know a fellow that paid cash for a big Ford pick up with eel money. A story about frog gigging...I had a good friend , a veternarian and an upstanding piller of the comunity, who decided he wanted some frog legs and he called me to ask if I wanted to go out with him to get them that night. Sure..He lives on a large lake so well after dark we took his runabout boat out armed with some .22 rifles and frog gigs.My friend also took his Chesapeake Retevier dog Teeth along too. We worked our way around the shore line shooting and gigging some frogs as we shone a light on them. Loads of fun though a couple of the city people who lived in the new houses along water must not have thought so because they came out and yelled at us.Sure enough pretty soon we see a police car pull up at a landing and shinning it's spot light around the lake.We real quite got behind some bushes and figured to just wait it out but then the cop gets out and yelled across "whos out there?". Soon as he did so my friends stupid dog jumped out of the boat and started to swim to the cop! My friend gets all peevish and whispers to me if the dog goes up to the cop they will see his dog tag and we are caught for sure .Not wanting to use his dogs real name for fearing he would be recognized but having to do something Doc yelled out in a small girl's voice "BUCK ! BUCK! Come !" and sure enough the dog turned around and I pulled him back in the boat.We poled it back to shore and carried the boat up into the woods , hid it in some brush and snuck back home in the dark. He told me about a month later a policeman brought in his K9 dog for some work and when he came in petted Doc's. chesapeake dog and said "how you doing old Buck" ......Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158952 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-04-03 14:59:47 Subject: FS: Wooden side rebate planes and a crispy moving So you say that cleaning up those undersized dados are driving you crazy? Have you been dreaming about a pair of elusive side rabbets from the old country? Well step right up and take a look, these babies are the real deal. No drooling please, as these have the original patina and are untouched. Yes sir, they are a matched pair of wooden skewed side rebate planes. The makers mark? AMESS BIRMm Where did I get them? From a little old man in Scotland. Only $100.00 Pictures available on request. I think that every full blooded galoot should have a moving fillister. What's that you say? Don't know what it is? Oooohhhh goes the assemblage, but here! here! Quiet down! This is simply a rabbet plane with a depth stop and a fence, making it one of the most used planes in your arsenal. What makes this plane excel is the spur(nicker) that scores the wood before the skewed blade wafts the gossamer shaving away, to gently float to the floor. The brass depth stop and fence with inlaid brass screw runners allows for perfectly controlling what you want to do. The dovetailed boxwood wear strip begs for lots of use. Let me see about the makers mark. . . Oh this only gets better. . . TABER PLANE CO. my all time favorite plane maker from New Bedford, MS. Patina and crispiness, and the blade is sharpened to shaving quality. Only $100.00 Pictures available on request. P.S. Why am I willing to part with these? Me son would like a little dingy to fish in, and he is worth it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158953 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-04-03 13:14:49 Subject: Re: Router Plane.. On Monday 03 April 2006 06:04 am, Ellis, Thomas wrote: > This is better than anything else I've ever seen, > and it's home-grown to boot. While it's technically > about the LV plane, it applies to all router planes. > > http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVRouterPlane/index.asp I can only concur with Mr. Ellis (that sounds too formal, heh?;-), Derek's write-up is a great place to start. That's a great one on the router plane, excellent comparison. Caused me to get the LV router plane in fact, it's a wonderful tool. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158954 ---- From: "Jeff Thieme" Date: 2006-04-03 15:14:18 Subject: Re: Unsticking brass adjustment knobs On 4/3/06, T.J. Mahaffey wrote: > Does someone have a secret weapon against knob seizure? My secret weapon is Kroil. It has always worked for me when others have failed. I've never seen it in a retail outlet, but Google will help you quickly find it online. It's a true penetrating oil, unlike many of the water dispersion oils currently marketed as penetrating oils. I once bought an eggbeater drill that was ceased for a dollar at a flea market. I soaked it in WD-40 every night for a couple weeks and couldn't get it to budge with vise grips and a vise. I told my Dad that I was just going to call it a loss, but he told me he could get it loose. It only took one application of Kroil to free it up. Ever since then, I've been sold on it. ~Jeff near Memphis, TN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158955 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-04-03 15:37:38 Subject: RE: Unsticking brass adjustment knobs You might try some kroil, put in a secure plastic bag and stick it into the deep freeze for a couple of days. Its worked for me! (suggestion from Pat Leach) >> Does someone have a secret weapon against knob seizure? > >My secret weapon is Kroil. It has always worked for me when others >have failed. I've never seen it in a retail outlet, but Google will >help you quickly find it online. It's a true penetrating oil, unlike >many of the water dispersion oils currently marketed as penetrating >oils. I once bought an eggbeater drill that was ceased for a dollar >at a flea market. I soaked it in WD-40 every night for a couple weeks >and couldn't get it to budge with vise grips and a vise. I told my >Dad that I was just going to call it a loss, but he told me he could >get it loose. It only took one application of Kroil to free it up. >Ever since then, I've been sold on it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158956 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-04-03 22:38:40 Subject: Re: Unsticking brass adjustment knobs Hello T.J. Mahaffey and fellow galoots, The thread was: I'm cleaning up a #112 scraper plane and have so far been unable to get the inside brass adjustment knob to turn. I've been soaking it in penetrating oil for weeks and even tried some rubber-faced pliers to no avail. Does someone have a secret weapon against knob seizure? You can use an electric soldering iron to heat up the knobs by the heat of this the knobs will expand and you might be able to unlock the bond between the screwthread and the brass knob. I've got good results by using this method on rust frozen screws. Good luck with it. Regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158957 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-04-03 22:38:54 Subject: Re: Renovating an infill smoother Derek, nice smoother, you asked about: The question is what shape should the infill take? Should I build something traditional, or something a tad different (but still user friendly). I like the coffin shape, but I do not see the point of the squarish rear that just does not look comfortable and, indeed, seems to encourage one to push forwards and not downwards. My thoughts run to a rounded rear for comfort, angled at 45 degrees for downforce. What is wrong with an traditional shape like the spiers plane? I work allmost for an year now with an Spiers coffin smoother and i must say in the beginning i had to get used to hold a classic plane like this, as i was used to use an stanley no. 4, 5, and 7. but i must say you get used to it. I had problems with my hand leaning against the blade which isn't a pleasure but after i while i got used to it and i must say that i barely touch my #4 these days only for some scrubplaning. The planes i use the most are a small blockplane for endgrain planing and the #5 but for all the other planing i only use my Spiers without an fancy adjuster even this will become common practice after a while and i haven't used a plane so fine like this old Spiers. Derek you also wrote about: There was no name that I could find, but inside was a stamped "5" (which might just represent the fifth plane made by the craftsman). Was this "5"stamped into the rosewood infill on the inside where the chipbreaker screw goes in? I discovered that my Spiers was marked inside on to the rosewood with an "7" which also stood on the blade and onto the chipbreaker. Maybe this was also with your plane in the past. I also liked the last image with your attempt to make a knurled skew replacement for lever cap. Infill is Jarrah but will likely be replaced with Tasmanian Blackwood. Did you turn the screw yourself and did you had to retap the screw for it in the lever cap? Derek i like your plane and keep up the good work and give the infill an second thought please keep us posted with the progress of the work good luck and best regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158958 ---- From: "A. Bouland" Date: 2006-04-03 15:54:29 Subject: RE: repairing old woodies Not that I have much useful info to add but I have had a little experience with Japanese planes and dealing with cracks as referenced in Ed's post. By their nature, I think this might differ a bit from repairing "western" style wooden planes. While the principles are certainly applicable, I think some of the cracks you encounter in a Japanese plane are from a different cause. Most cracks of the sort seen in Japanese planes are directly a result of the shape of the blade which is tapered out as you get away from the business end. If you do not either reshape the body or reshape the blade as it is sharpened down, it will eventually end up being wider than the original opening and cracking the body behind the blade. With this type of crack, you can usually close the gap with a bolt (common repair I've seen in Japanese planes) and then either open up the body or grind down the sides of the blade and you are good to go. Not a pretty repair but it does the trick and seems to be a generally accepted practice. I've seen a few folks that will close the gap in a clamp and patch with a dovetail/butterfly. This looks nicer but obviously more difficult. With the few western type woodies I've recently gotten (all of which are cracked of course), it seemed that the cracks were very stable and didn't want to close up with clamping pressure. Also, didn't seem to necessarily just be located behind the blade. Been curious if they were caused by pressure from the blade or if they'd been dropped - or simply a condition of being stored in poor conditions (swelling/shrinkage due to moisture content in environment). Perhaps all of the above. In any event, aside from sealing them up to make myself more content, wasn't sure if there was a "need" to repair. Obviously, the crack isn't a good thing and will hurt the value of the plane but unless it caused the blade not to fit properly I couldn't see that they necessarily needed to be repaired at all. Sure, situations will all be different for each plane, but at least for the couple I've got, I've been wondering if they might not be better off left alone. So far I'm of the thought that a stable crack is better than a sloppy repair so I think I'll leave them be until I'm better prepared to deal with it. Even so, looking at them makes me itch to try to stitch them back together. Curious to see other opinions as it's something I too have been wondering about lately. Andrew B. Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:45:35 -0400 From: "Ed in Ottawa" Subject: Re: [OldTools] repairing old woodies To: Message-ID: <005a01c65685$a5e18fe0$1301a8c0@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" GreetinGs GalooTs! Here is a link to a woody plane repair. This one may interest Ludo as well, as it is a Kanna, and the ex-pat Canadian owner lives in Tokyo. http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/treasure.htm Scroll down to "I'd buy that for a dollar!". regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158959 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-04-03 18:25:59 Subject: Stanley 45 Blade Nut Jams On the 45, the blade is held in place by a tension nut. I don't think I need to explain that to you. Anyway, mine jams. It tightens fine but when I go to release it, it sticks and I have to give the wing nut a blunt tap to loosen it. I've cleaned the socket out with thinners and put a dab of oil, but it still sticks. Is there a simple solution from the porch or do I need to call my friend who's a millwright? Thanks, Jim Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158960 ---- From: Free Heeler Date: 2006-04-03 14:26:31 Subject: Re: Unsticking brass adjustment knobs > Does someone have a secret weapon against knob > seizure? This might not be applicable because no brass was involved but I recently unstuck a very, very, rusty clamp-on clamp on a saw vise by soaking it in citric acid for a few days, every now and then taking it out to scrub around the threads with a brass toothbrush. It took three or four days but it's possible the citric acid mix wasn't very potent. Good luck. Kris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158961 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-04-03 14:40:32 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question I can confirm that at least some squares are blued. I have one from Crown (IIRC) with a blued blade. Also, some Yankee spiral ratchet screwdrivers were blued. But neither of those applications is likely to experience the kind of abrasion that a saw blade will get. Of course bluing is a traditional finish for guns and it is reasonably good at preventing rust under mild conditions, but it is not very resistant to abrasion. It doesn't take many trips in and out of a holster before the blue wears through at the contact points. I'm guessing that a saw that is going to see much use is going to trash a blued finish rather quickly. Which is too bad, because there is no more attractive finish for metal than a nice, deep blue. IMHO. Blake >>> paul womack 04/03/06 2:41 AM >>> Bill Rittner wrote: > This old saw I'm cleaning looks like the blade is blue tempered steel. The > etch states it is "spring steel". Has anyone ever seen or known of a saw > from ca 1880 that is blue tempered? It could be "patina", but it looks blue > to me. As a data point, I know (but from memory) that some steel framing squares were "blued". BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158962 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-04-03 18:46:15 Subject: Plane Storage As my bench nears completion, I'm starting to think about the drawers and cabinets that will go under it. Chisels and smaller tools are easy to deal with but my mind's wandering on what to do with planes. I was thinking of cubby holes but that won't accommodate my longer planes (my jointer is 30 inches long and the bench in only 28" wide). Option two is a shallow cabinet on the opposite side of the bench, with shelves running sideways, but that puts the planes out of easy reach. Then I saw an article on the nice wall cabinet that I could hang on wall behind me so I just need to turn and grab. I want a solution that offers and organized, convenient, safe and dust free home for my planes. I also want world peace but I need to deal with the planes first. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158963 ---- From: "Pinwu Xu" Date: 2006-04-03 22:03:01 Subject: RE: Plane Storage You may need more than one storage unit, even just for the planes. Pinwu >From: Jim McVicar >To: "oldtools@r..." >Subject: [OldTools] Plane Storage >Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 18:46:15 -0300 > > >As my bench nears completion, I'm starting to think about the drawers and >cabinets that will go under it. Chisels and smaller tools are easy to deal >with but my mind's wandering on what to do with planes. > >I was thinking of cubby holes but that won't accommodate my longer planes >(my jointer is 30 inches long and the bench in only 28" wide). Option two >is >a shallow cabinet on the opposite side of the bench, with shelves running >sideways, but that puts the planes out of easy reach. Then I saw an article >on the nice wall cabinet that I could hang on wall behind me so I just need >to turn and grab. > >I want a solution that offers and organized, convenient, safe and dust free >home for my planes. I also want world peace but I need to deal with the >planes first. > >Any suggestions are appreciated. > >Thanks, >Jim >Saint John, New Brunswick > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To change your subscription options: >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158964 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-04-03 18:05:25 Subject: Re: Ell Killer tool (long) Todd, along with some great stories wrote (in part): >There are many different types of eel gigs, I once had a conversation with >a collector who had over 100 different gigs and told me he could not only >tell what country they came from but even what part of the country just by >what they look like. Saw a big book on them befor that showed lots of >different types.Some of these gigs can get pretty pricey...I've sold a >couple well over $150 on the ebay.Bought a nice one at an antique show and >caused much talk when I cut the head off an 8 ft. shaft since no way was I >going to mail that...Most of this eel spearing was done with eels being >down in the mud during winter apperently and these spears are often made >with a center section that will push though the mud and slide the eel over >into the upward shaped barbs which pull it out of the mud and into the >boat.You are not actually harpooning the eel like a whale. It's about the same kind of deal here in southern New England. Although most of the eel spearing used to be done (back to that later) in the winter through holes cut in the ice at the headwaters of estuaries. The biology of American eels is that only the females ascend freshwater streams to spend several years (sometimes as many as 20) before heading back to sea for their spawning migrations. The much smaller males hang around in the brackish estuaries, and they are the ones that the eelers try to spear when they lie dormant in the bottom mud during the winter. Parenthetically, there is an idea that the young "glass eels" that transform to "elvers" just before coming inshore, are all indeterminate in sex: the ones that stay in brackish water develop as males, and those that run into fresh water become females. (Gives you some pause about giving your newborn fresh water baths!). At any rate, the eelers in my neck of the woods, go out on the ice in the winter, cut a hole in the ice and methodically work the eel spear in increasing concentric circles. The spear has a long central flat tine, shouldered by four to eight gaff-like tines on either side. The tines are hand forged, and are quite delicate, with most of them that you see having had the barbs brazed where they have been broken. A good spear will ring like a bell when you flick one of the barbs with a finger. Even counting for regional differences in the design, there are differences in the shape and size of the central tine--some designed to be use onr rocky, or sandy, or muddy bottoms. A good eeler can feel the tines slip over the body of an eel as he pushes the spear into the mud. A quick pull upward on the long pole gaffs the eel, and it is drawn out onto the ice, and thrown into a tub. Years ago (mebbe about 35) an old local eeler gave me a lesson on this. To protect the innocent, let's just say his name was Patrick Leach (obligatory old tools content). Well, Patrick showed me his technique, pulling up a half a wash tub of eels in a morning out on the ice. Then we went to his home where he threw the eels (still writhing and quite alive) into a larger tub of wood ashes. While the ashes absorbed their copious slime and slowed them down, he showed me his arsenal of eel spears (about 20 of them)--all used according to the bottoms and conditions under which he eeled. After an hour or so Patrick cleaned up his morning catch of eels. By this time they had been deslimed and quite slowed down. Instead of skinning the beasts, he slit the animal down the back, lopped off the head, and pulled the backbone out the length of the critter, right back to the tail. The entrails were scooped out, the carcass washed off, and the flattened body was rolled up like a canape, ready to deliver to a local restaurant (where "eels and johnny cakes" was the Thursday night special). It was a slick (pun intended) operation. Mr. Leach, it turns out, had some theories about eel biology that flew in the face of the prevailing view of their biology. American (and European) eels are considered to be catadromous fishes. That is, they grow in fresh/brackish water, and move to the ocean to spawn--in the general region of the Sargasso Sea--north of Bermuda. Well, Patrick had this idea that that the eels he was catching in our local Massachusetts estuary were spawning there--after migrating from distant Vermont rivers via underground streams that ran from Vermont to Massachusetts. I don't remember the details of the disagreement between us, but at some point I was called to my department head's office and was faced with a challenge from a reporter from the local newspaper to justify my contrary view of Patrick's assertions. Just fortunately I had taken the interest to preserve some of the gonads of the eels that he had cleaned in my presence, and had prepared microscope slides of this tissue (my business being a fish biologist). The reporter had no idea of what he was looking at through the microscope--but it clearly showed that that these were immature males; and that there was no spawning of eels going on in the local estuary. I did learn a great lesson from this. To this day, when one of the local swamp yankees tells me a preposterous tale, like he caught a 25 lb striped bass through the ice in Sippawisset Pond, I just nod my head, and ask him what he was using for bait. Sandy Oh, and today American eels, like so many other fishes, are really on hard times. Their populations have plummeted to the point that it no longer is profitable for eel spearers to work. The reasons appear to be habitat destruction (the deterioration of upstream habitat), the polllution of estuarine bottoms (our local estuary was killed for them 20 years ago when a furniture stripper released his sodium hydroxide into their winter resting beds), and the wholesale catching of the young elvers to supply a ravenous foreign market for these delicacies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158965 ---- From: "Joe Hurst" Date: 2006-04-03 18:48:46 Subject: wooden side rabbet or quirk? Great Galoots I was looking at a picture of a beading plane when this other plane showed up in one of the pictures. They sometimes try to steal the show that way. http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=visit&lid=247 The second plane is called a quirk in the text, but it looks a lot like a side rabbet which I have been thinking of making. Only thinking of it because the blade shape has me confused. Can anyone shed a little light on these issues please? Joe -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 3/31/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158966 ---- From: DCarr10760@a... Date: 2006-04-03 19:31:20 Subject: Re: Stanley 45 Blade Nut Jams Jim and Esteemed Galoots, My 45 works in much the same way. I assumed that it was the nature of the beast, kind of like knocking a Morse Tapered Collet out of a lathe or M*lling M*chine. Regards, David C. Where it turned colder suddenly after a beee-u-tee-full Weekend ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158967 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-04-03 20:10:55 Subject: Re: Handsaw Question Blake wrote (in part): >Also, some Yankee spiral ratchet >screwdrivers were blued. But neither of those applications is likely to >experience the kind of abrasion that a saw blade will get. > >Of course bluing is a traditional finish for guns and it is reasonably >good at preventing rust under mild conditions, but it is not very >resistant to abrasion. It doesn't take many trips in and out of a >holster before the blue wears through at the contact points. I'm >guessing that a saw that is going to see much use is going to trash a >blued finish rather quickly. Yes, North Bros did provide a blued finish to their spiral ratchet screw drivers (and other tools) during the WWII period when supplies of chromium (their preferred finish) were diverted to the war effort. My understanding is that blueing is a form of oxidation that protects the steel surface from more aggressive oxidation (rust). Among tool firms that routinely employed this finish was the Riverside Tool Co. of New York. Chisels and auger bits with their name are often found with a blued finish. And my weak memory tells me that I've seen back saws carrying their name also with this finish. Best regards, Sandy (hoping for rain in Massachusetts) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158968 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-04-03 20:42:38 Subject: Re: wooden side rabbet or quirk? At 06:48 PM 4/3/2006, Joe Hurst wrote: >http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=visit&lid > The second plane is called a quirk in the text, but it looks a lot >like a side rabbet which I have been thinking of making. If it is the one that is lying down on it's side, that sure looks like a very small hollow plane to me, about 1/8 or 3/16. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158969 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-04-03 17:53:58 Subject: Re: wooden side rabbet or quirk? On 3 Apr 2006 at 18:48, Joe Hurst wrote: > The second plane is called a quirk in the text, but it looks a > lot like a side rabbet which I have been thinking of making. > Only thinking of it because the blade shape has me confused. Can > anyone shed a little light on these issues please? Well, no, the plane isn't called a quirk in the text. What Scott said was "...the stringy shavings that come from the quirk" in reference to shavings that are produced as the quirk is created. The quirk is the square- bottomed groove that separates the bead itself from the non-decorated part of the board. As a side bead is used, it simultaneously produces the bead and the quirk. The plane shown in the second picture is a side bead plane. Specifically, it's a double side bead, which allows the bead to be cut from different direction so as to deal better with difficult grain. It's not a side rabbet either, as the subject might suggest. -Ken, who would never allow anyone in the shop with a camera if I was doing what it shown in the last picture. Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158970 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-04-03 19:56:08 Subject: Re: wooden side rabbet or quirk? Joe Hurst wrote: > I was looking at a picture of a beading plane when this other plane >showed up in one of the pictures. > They sometimes try to steal the show that way. > > >http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=visit&lid > > The second plane is called a quirk in the text, but it looks a lot >like a side rabbet which I have been thinking of making. I was hoping Scott might speak up - it seems we haven't heard from him in a long time. Not since December 4, 2004 according to the archive? The second plane in the photo is a small hollow plane, which Scott mentions as useful for cleaning the bead up, as necessary. The "stringy shavings" he mentions, are produced by the portion of the bead plane iron which cuts the quirk, or narrow channel, alongside the bead. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158971 ---- From: "Joe Hurst" Date: 2006-04-03 21:35:51 Subject: RE: wooden side rabbet or quirk? Thank you gentlemen. That answers that. Joe -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Don McConnell Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 8:56 PM To: oldtools Subject: Re: [OldTools] wooden side rabbet or quirk? Joe Hurst wrote: > I was looking at a picture of a beading plane when this other plane >showed up in one of the pictures. > They sometimes try to steal the show that way. > > >http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=visit&lid >247 > > The second plane is called a quirk in the text, but it looks a lot >like a side rabbet which I have been thinking of making. I was hoping Scott might speak up - it seems we haven't heard from him in a long time. Not since December 4, 2004 according to the archive? The second plane in the photo is a small hollow plane, which Scott mentions as useful for cleaning the bead up, as necessary. The "stringy shavings" he mentions, are produced by the portion of the bead plane iron which cuts the quirk, or narrow channel, alongside the bead. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158972 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-04-03 18:40:55 Subject: Re: Stanley 45 Blade Nut Jams Molybdenum disulphide, if I spelled it right, is the answer to most thread problems. Commonly called Anti-Seize compound. I am still using an 8 ounce plastic jar of high temp anti-seize that I bought a very long time ago. I still own my bought new 1968 Thunderbird, and way back when, I wanted to have it repainted, so I removed the bumpers, which weigh a ton incidentally. I coated all the bolts with the compound and replaced them after the paint job. So about 20 years later I wanted to remove the bumpers again, and lo and behold, the bolts were still coated with the stuff and came off so easily it was hard to believe. I bought my compound in a Napa auto supply store and I think the cost was about $10. You just coat the threads with the silvery looking stuff, and then wipe most of it off with a paper towel. Try not to get any on your fingers, because you need hand cleaner to get it off. It will stay on the threads almost forever, and as long as the threads are not damaged, they will work silky smooth. It is great stuff! On Apr 3, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Jim McVicar wrote: > > On the 45, the blade is held in place by a tension nut. I don't think > I need > to explain that to you. Anyway, mine jams. It tightens fine but when I > go to > release it, it sticks and I have to give the wing nut a blunt tap to > loosen > it. > > I've cleaned the socket out with thinners and put a dab of oil, but it > still > sticks. > > Is there a simple solution from the porch or do I need to call my > friend > who's a millwright? > > Thanks, > Jim > Saint John, NB > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158973 ---- From: Darrell & Kathy Date: 2006-04-03 21:52:42 Subject: Tools of The Trade Sale Galoots, Well, another tool sale has come and gone up here in the Great White North. Kathy managed to weasel her way out of teaching Sunday School, so she was able to come with me to the sale. It's like going out on a Tool Date :^) We ran into the usual bunch of shady characters, plus a few we hadn't seen at the sale before. Terry & Gump managed to make it all the way from the Ottawa Valley. Our neighbour from up at the cottage even showed up. I guess my hints have finally got through to him, eh? A few of us went out for lunch at the local Firkin pub and came back for a second round of toolin'. I didn't buy much. Don't have any room left for many tools down in the Museum of The Transmundane. No planes this time (!??!?!) but I did get another spokeshave. This one is a Stanley #63 round bottom shave. I didn't have one of those yet. Well, sortofkindof. I had filed a #64 shave to a round bottomed profile, but now I have The Real Thing. And for $8 CAD who was I to argue, eh? I also picked up a nasty little cobbler's hammer, a Monster Rasp and a Monster 4-square file, plus a couple of Yankee bits. Those Number 2 Robertson bits are hard to come by. I also scored a big old firmer chisel, which will become a flat chisel for the Pole Lathe. Saturday was Junk Day in west Oakville. This year I found lots of wood. Enough to keep the Cubs & Scouts busy till the end of the year. Why do people throw out perfectly good 2X4's? Ah well, they're MINE now! -- Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158974 ---- From: "Ted Shuck" Date: 2006-04-03 22:01:15 Subject: Re: Stanley 45 Blade Nut Jams Jim extols the virtures of molybdenum disulfide... >You just coat the threads with the silvery looking stuff, and then wipe >most of it off with a paper towel. Try not to get any on your fingers, >because you need hand cleaner to get it off. It will stay on the >threads almost forever, and as long as the threads are not damaged, >they will work silky smooth. It is great stuff! I learned about this stuff when restoring an old car 20+ years ago. It is essential for use when the parts may become rusty, such as on exhaust systems. It is also very useful when the parts to be joined are of dissimilar metals, such as steel and aluminum (aluminium Jeff) and the parts may electorlytically weld themselves together. I agree that it is great stuff!! Regards, Ted ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158975 ---- From: Tom Ford Date: 2006-04-04 01:55:29 Subject: Plane Storage >As my bench nears completion, I'm starting to think about the >drawers and cabinets that will go under it. my mind's wandering on what to do with planes. >I was thinking of cubby holes but that won't accommodate my >longer planes (my jointer is 30 inches long and the bench in only 28" wide). >I want a solution that offers and organized, convenient, safe and >dust free home for my planes. >Any suggestions are appreciated. >Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ____________________________________ Jim, Respected Galoots everywhere, You could build cubbies on an angle with the toe of the planes lower than the heel. The planes would still be handy and the longer planes would fit on the angle. They would be more secure and much less likely to bounce on the floor if you ever get your bench in an off-camber situation. Tom in KY, just a suggestion. I store dowel rod that way to fit them under my 24" counters. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158976 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-04-03 22:59:17 Subject: In God we trust One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom. The teacher was going to explain evolution to the children. The teacher asked a little boy: Tommy do you see the tree outside? TOMMY: Yes. TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside? TOMMY: Yes. TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky. TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky. TEACHER: Did you see God up there? TOMMY: No. TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. Possibly he just doesn't exist. A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the boy: Tommy, do you see the tree outside? TOMMY: Yes. LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside? TOMMY: Yessssss! LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky? TOMMY: Yessssss! LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher? TOMMY: Yes LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain? TOMMY: No LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she possibly may not even have one! (You Go Girl!) Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158977 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-04-04 16:24:20 Subject: Re: Stropping a Blade James Thompson writes: > There is entirely too much rocket science involved in our sharpening. > None of the ancient masters had any of the modern mechanical stuff that > we keep discussing, and they seemed to do rather well. Whilst some of my older acquaintance could grind to perfection freehand using their forefingers under the iron against the edge of the grinder's rest, many others used blocks of 3"x3" or 4"x3", the top cut to the desired angle with a metal strap screwed or bolted on the top to hold down the iron. The jig was first set up by fixing a wooden rail strip perpendicular to the wheel's side across the base on which the wheel was mounted at whatever seemed to be a convenient, close distance from the wheel's edge. The block was made square all round and, with the block standing on one end, the face side was butted up to the rail. The block's top angle was established by taking it off with a bevel gauge set at 90 degrees plus the desired iron's bevel from the wheel's radius line by marking it along one side of the block. This mark was squared across both faces of the block and the other side line was thereby established and the top of the block was then sawn off along these lines, usually freehand with a bandsaw as the quickest available method. Two lines, close to either side, were squared from the face across the beveled top and then scored and the strap was fixed on the top, usually by just a pair of wood screws. The iron was held underneath the strap with a side set against and parallel to one of the score marks and was set in position simply by knocking backwards or forwards until it just touched the wheel and sideways to preserve its parallelism with the score line. The rail and the bottom of the block were lightly greased, the block was moved from side to side and grinding proceeded with the iron being knocked further forward if circumstances required. My early attempts with this method did not meet with much success and I adopted another method during the course of which I discovered that my wheels (all of my handwheels and power wheels) were not perpendicular to their mounting bases and required shimming. Had I discovered this when mucking around with the wooden blocks I might still be using them. In the ordinary course, grinding "captive" irons in any one of the plethora of factory-made jigs can be, it seems to me, a bit hazardous if the iron requires a quick dunking in water but, with the wooden blocks, the whole assembly can be grabbed and dunked in short order. As Jim writes, "Keeping it simple is really the way to go." And I could add that keeping all things square is imperative. Regards John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158978 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-04-04 15:09:04 Subject: Re: Renovating an infill smoother Derek Cohen writes: > The other areas for replacement include the iron. The tapered Mathieson is > out, and in comes a 3/16" cast steel parallel Something-or-other (it has a > stamp that looks a lot like Mathieson, but instead says "Warranted" where > the Mathieson name goes, and "Cast Steel" underneath). It started life at 2 > 1/4" wide, and I have ground it to 2". The Mathieson form of trademark seems to have been popular. Not so long ago I obliged myself to confess to the forum and repent my having previously described a rather large iron I had acquired as a "Mathieson" before all of the evidence was in. On cleaning it "warranted" appeared in the Mathieson horseshoe but "Mitchell" and underneath that "London" were the words which I discerned, together with what seems to be a representation of an open hand. No mention of "cast steel", though. It is 2 1/2" wide. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158979 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-04-04 19:59:49 Subject: Stanley #4 Fellow Ferrousoxidites, Last Saturday's flea furnished a hot, humid morning but little of interest except for a couple of dogfights. Pricks who let their dogs lead them on a leash instead of making them walk at heel can set me off moaning for an hour until the distaff side tells me I am becoming repetitive and to pack it in. Why persons bring their dogs into public places when they don't have the slightest idea of how to control them sets me thinking as to which of the pair is the more useful candidate for the green needle. Anyway, I took an informed interest in the fights, scored the points, mentally raised the paw of each winner and was pleased that no real damage had been done to any of the combatants. These days, I have to take my entertainment as opportunity presents. Present at the flea was a dealer whom I had not seen before with numerous boxes of rust and from whom I secured a hefty pair of 14" tinsnips made by The Gilbow Tool and Steel Co Ltd of Sheffield, England ($2.00) and a Stanley #4 smoothing plane, also made in England ($10.00). I know I have a saw problem (repressed, i.e., concealed), my psychiatrist brother is more than a little concerned about what he diagnoses to be my plane problem (hard to hide all of them) but now I must examine my own symptoms to discover whether I have contracted an incipient tinsnips problem (err .... over 12 of 'em). The beauty, nay, the glory of tinsnips is that one can recklessly acquire them as they present themselves for acquisition and never, ever acquire a duplicate of the ones already squirreled away for posterity, survivalist living or whatever. Next to hammers, and, perhaps, axes, they are man's most mistreated artifact, yet, with a good, correct stoning and a judicious tightening of the joint they will quite happily split a cigarette paper down its fold and slice through sheet metal of apparently impossibly heavy gauge. I speak not here of the Wiss tinsnips, as good as they are (add something to that err.. dozen), but of the good old, traditional three part (the pin is the third part) hand pinchers. The pride of the Gilbow stable of which I speak, Model No. 245 - 14, sports three patent numbers for the U.K., Australia and New Zealand and I am suffused in vague curiosity as to what particular refinement may distinguish this specimen and its fellows from that which was employed by the ancient Britons as they merrily roofed their wattle and daub cottages with corrugated iron during the thatchers' strike of 824 B.C. For a change, there was no evidence that this particular set of shears had ever been employed for cutting heavy wire and the hollow ground faces of the insides of the blades made it a short job to bring up on the stone each edge on its own to paper-cutting standard after a bit of old grease and superficial rust had been cleaned off. Then, tappity-tap-tap with the flat face of a ball peen hammer on the pin's head and cut out the pictures from an old newspaper. Ahhh, second childhood is much more fun than the first. Then proceeded to cut out from a hefty sheet of zincalume a part of a rude whirligig I have in mind. Bewdy! The grandkids should love it. No so sure about their parents. Now to the Stanley No. 4. Fairly modern looking (That's as good as I can get on plane types), very rusty and very gunked up but all the bits are there. Did I need another No. 4 plane? Well, I am no collector (No. Never. Not at all.) but I notice that old plane prices are verging on the ridiculous ("It's a 'Collector's Item', mate") and one looking in suspiciously good condition under its layers of rust and gunk for $10.00 reminds me of my obligation to preserve these things in working order so that my grandchildren may make rude whirligigs for the edification of their grandchildren. Distaff side is tolerant provided I do not flaunt my approaching imbecility to strangers. How many No. 4's do I have? Who the hell's counting? Zap vat being back in Brisbane, I degunk and derust the Stanley manually and a very therapeutic thing it is too, akin to institutional basket weaving; and close to the huge beer fridge imposed upon me by a relative to whom I forgot to send a bill. The amount of gunk built up under the iron (the frog was too far back) and in the sides was impressive. It seemed as if a previous owner had coated the thing in grease and thereby collected chips and dust without ever pulling it apart for cleaning for the whole of its life with him. Degreasing, derusting with scraper, plasterer's gauze, sandpaper and 3M pot scourer and all is clean as a whistle but with plenty of patina. The lacquer (shellac?) was worn in parts off the wooden bits but a beeswax polish overall without sanding off the remaining lacquer and all was fine enough. The metal straightedge showed that there was a slight concavity in the sol