---- Start of Message 157501 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-02-25 20:54:30 Subject: Plane Day Bad Andy and SWMBO have a cheap termite barf computer desk so the keyboard was not in the line of drool. Those are great pictures. Glad you gave a list of names for the group picture. If you ever have a get together like that again, I would be glad to come along. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157502 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-02-25 21:02:54 Subject: Workbench Legs I was in my beat up old garage today and found some large oak boards that the old owners left me. Big, heavy, oak. Now I have the materials to start on my new workbench legs. Free legs. This is like my free shaving horse. (The builders of my old neighbor's house left a 2x10x6 in the trash for me). Cheap is good free is better. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157503 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-02-25 18:26:00 Subject: RE: Plane Day Photos Ron - thanks for sharing the photos, along with your earlier posting on the gathering at PW in Cincy. That must have been one hell of a party. I'm truly jealous. Regards, Lew Soloway in So Cal -----Original Message----- From: Ron Hock [mailto:ron@h...] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:16 PM To: OldTools Subject: [OldTools] Plane Day Photos Galootish Friends, The kind folks at Popular Woodworking Magazine, who hosted the soon-to-be-legendary meeting of the plane makers (and some of us ancillary to the task,) have sent photos of the event to all who participated (pretty cool of them.) And, with their permission, I've posted the lot on the HOCK TOOLS website: http://www.hocktools.com/planemaking%202006%20cd/click%20here.htm Popular Woodworking is planning an article about the event for an upcoming issue so keep an eye out for it. There are a boat load of photos so it'll take a while to load but there are some dazzling planes depicted and, of course some dazzling people as well. Don't drool on your keyboard (over the planes, I mean. If you drool over the people, well, that'd be weird.) When you get to the group photo (I swear we were *this* close to a group hug) here's the scorecard: John Edwards (on floor), the row behind him, seated, l-r is Konrad Sauer, Ron Hock, Wayne Anderson, Don McConnell, Larry Williams, Terry Saunders, Bob Baker and Brian Buckner. Back row, standing, l-r: Christopher Schwarz, Tom Lie-Nielsen, Kirsten Lie-Nielsen, Mark Swanson, Joel Moskowitz, Clarence Blanchard, Mike Jenkins, John Economaki and Robin Lee. An august group if there was ever one assembled and I must repeat how proud I was to be amongst them. Ron -- Ron Hock HOCK TOOLS http://www.hocktools.com 16650 Mitchell Creek Dr Fort Bragg, CA 95437 (707) 964-2782 fax (707) 964-7816 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157504 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-25 21:05:17 Subject: flea mkt find GG, Got another run a my flea dealer and the collection he bought, makes tool hunting easy...I'm broke by the time I leave his booth, so it's one stop and a little window shoping and then go home. http://tinyurl.com/zp6no Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157505 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-02-25 19:23:05 Subject: Re: flea mkt find Roy calls to all > GG, > Got another run a my flea dealer and the collection he bought, makes > tool > hunting easy...I'm broke by the time I leave his booth, so it's one > stop > and a little window shoping and then go home. Oh sir Roy, Nice haul! Unless I miss my guess, that handsaw is from a nest of saws wherein the blades are interchangeable with the handle. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157506 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-02-25 22:35:07 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > The thing about fleas is that you don't always get to select > exactly what you > want, so you take what you find and in some cases end up with less > than > desirable tools also. GG Many times fleas yield a tool you did not think you needed, like the couple of Yankee 5 speed egg beaters that I love to spin! Or you find one that is way better than the one you intended to get - like the $1 Disston 112 (fancy skew backed hand saw, Jeff), or the $25 Stanley 605-1/4(Iron junior jack of the solidly bedded frog variety, Jeff), both of which get used - especially the Bedrock. Probably my nature, but waiting to see what comes up is half of the fun. Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157507 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-25 19:48:52 Subject: Re: flea mkt find > Unless I miss my guess, that handsaw is from a nest of saws wherein > the blades are interchangeable Hot S--- Roy!! Score Disston saw nest, pat 1909 That's one of the earlier tote patterns looks like. Is it wheat carved? Is it apple???? Lots more blades out there to find. That heavy skewback blade is not so common and could be a lot worse for a start. Is it a rip? Pull up that etch. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157508 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-25 22:51:21 Subject: Re: Flea mkt finds GG, Thanks Mike, That explains the pin and slot arrangement that puzzled me on an adjustable handle. Guess I'll just go search Dale's shop, see if he has anymore blades...gotta go anyway. he admired the bocote pen I carry and when I told him I made it, he wanted one soooo...I'll deliver! Scott, no carving but I'm thinking it's apple. An etch doesn't look promising, 7PPI filed (^) ? and with absolutely zero set to the teeth...and appears to have been used this way. Blade is in good shape but well used. WHATSIT...A metalic tounge plane, looks like an old side by side with hammers (two blades and adjusters). Has Early type(compared side by side) stanley casting for the tote with leaf and vine, fence was a square tube sheleton affair, didn't say stanley that I could find but said pat'd pending on the side and I forgot to write down the date but I think it was '88. Jingle any bells? I can't find anything like it in B&G or FTJ. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157509 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-02-26 09:43:14 Subject: Atkins Saw Pamphlet at Oldtoolsshop Fellow Saw Enthusiasts, Wiktor has again been gracious enough to post something for the Porch. I scanned and sent him an Atkins saw pamphlet I have. I don't see a date anywhere. It can be viewed here: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/EC-Atkins/AtkinsSilverSteelSawSense-ne.pdf Best Regards to all, Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157510 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-26 09:36:02 Subject: Re: Flea mkt finds GG, Since no one has answered my WHATSIT question, What I was asking about, I've discovered, was a #48 type of tonge and groove plane. Probably not a Stanley. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157511 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-02-27 01:02:32 Subject: Re: Siberian Wind > Hello.... > > I want to thank all of you for massages I received regarding > some confusion that I am partially responsible for. > > > Wiktor A. Kuc Esteemed Gallots-of-the-Porch I am late (as usual) in arriving. It appears that bad has been made good, and hopefully the experience serves to provide an opportunity for us to examine what we have, and what we might not have. I have probably corresponded with Wiktor for longer than most here, from when his website was just a dream, and he was working so hard to get it off the ground. We have continued corresponding, sometimes just a few lines to check how things are, and so I know that he is working even harder than ever WKFinetools is less than 6 months old (indeed, my correspondence with Wiktor goes back to August last year, and the website had then not been announced). Yet in this short period of time Wiktor has created a reference source of huge promise, and a meeting place for Galoots from all walks of life and from all corners of the globe. No, it is not The Porch, it is more like The Shop. If WKFinetools did create revenue through advertising, I would call it due recompence for the time and effort that Wiktor gives, not to mention the webspace he gives away freely. Yet there is no revenue, no advertising - all of which makes Wiktor's involvement all the more amazing. Wiktor my friend (I like to think of you as such), my sincere thanks for all your past efforts, and may your websites continue to grow in stature. With kind regards from Perth Derek Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157512 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-26 09:27:00 Subject: Re: Stanley #45 Blade Source > had the 050 attachement and the 050 blades, and all of the optional > blades that were offered and in the original box, Maybe they fixed the 050 ? I got one when they were first released. Bought new off the shelf (or actually out of the Silvo Hardware catalog) in the 70's. It came with a full compliment of 24 blades. The plastic tote had to go first thing! It was the first plane tote I ever carved and a really weird one to fit at that. But in use, except for plowing and a couple other of the narrowest blades, the frame interferes with the cut and you can't get it out of the way so it is effectively useless for beading, fluting, sash cutting or tonguing on anything deeper than about 1/16" maximum. It hasn't seen much use in all this time, you can imagine. Is this a type 1 failure and the rest of the planes actually work? Or are they still selling a plane that never worked? yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157513 ---- From: Ron Hock Date: 2006-02-26 09:42:38 Subject: Re: re: Plane show The maple plane is one that I made from one of our kits and the bocote is one of James Krenov's. With all those big-buck planes around, I felt the need to represent the "every-woodworker" with some humbler offerings (that, I might add, worked just as well as the works of art assembled that day.) Ron Mike Wenzloff wrote: > Steve asked... > >> And whose woodies are those, 2nd from last picture in the roll? Yup, I >> need me a new keyboard from the drool overload. > > > My guess is the Reverend Ron's... > > Take care, Mike > still drying the keyboard... -- Ron Hock HOCK TOOLS http://www.hocktools.com 16650 Mitchell Creek Dr Fort Bragg, CA 95437 (707) 964-2782 fax (707) 964-7816 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157514 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-02-26 11:53:02 Subject: Re: Tack(?) Hammer Use and Info Thomas Graham asked (based on a tracing) about a hammer: ... >The head is 4 1/2" long and, generally, square in cross section. It >is about 3/4"square in the center where the handle come through. It >tapers to approx. 1/2" square at head's base/striking end and 3/8" >square at its top end. This latter end has slot about 1 3/8" long >that is in line with the handle and through the head from front to >back. The slot is 1 3/8" long and is rounded and wider (3/16") at >is bottom becoming a narrow slit at the top. ... > >What say you? Is it a tack hammer or does it have a more >specialized use? What is the purpose of the slot? While I do not consider myself to be a hammer aficionado, the lack of any public response to Thomas' query has prompted me to venture a response. The description sounds very similar to a small hammer which my father owned, and which we simply considered to be a tack hammer. The slotted end was magnetized (is this also true of the hammer in question?), and I recall being somewhat curious as to the purpose of the slot. Which prompted me to search for any possible relevant patents. I have yet to find a directly relevant patent, but a patent issued to Arthur R. Robertson provides a possible rationale for the slot. The primary claim of this patent centers on a "horseshoe" type magnetic end for a tack hammer, which Robertson claims to be stronger than previous "bar" type magnetic tack hammers. http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=352070&typeCode=0 He refers to this same feature in a 1902 patent for a more complex tack hammer: http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=710615&typeCode=0 These tack hammers were used by a variety of trades using small tacks (carpet installers, upholsterers, etc.), but I would speculate that one of the motivations for developing magnetized tack hammers may have been their use by bill posters. Robertson's 1902 patent seems particularly well suited for this use. Hope this helps a bit. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157515 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 10:58:58 Subject: Re: re: Plane show On 26 Feb 2006 at 9:42, Ron Hock wrote: > The maple plane is one that I made from one of our kits and the bocote > is one of James Krenov's. With all those big-buck planes around, I felt > the need to represent the "every-woodworker" with some humbler offerings > (that, I might add, worked just as well as the works of art assembled > that day.) > > Ron > Not to slight the lovely maple plane, but the curving form and carved texture on the Krenov looks fantastic to my eye. Way cool adjusting hammer, too! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157516 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 11:13:53 Subject: A question of temperance Oh sagacious ones, I'm gong to make a few blades for my Stanley 45, and at this point I can use whatever metal I want. What I would like to know is what metal provides the best chance of success for home heat treating? I figure that I can use old files without loosing their temper, but what of A2 or O1? Or D2? R2D2? And how important is the cryo with the A2? _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157517 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-02-26 13:27:45 Subject: Re: Re: Flea mkt finds Roy, I must have missed your whatsit question. Stanley made a No. 48 tongue and groove. Is this the one you are looking for? http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:36 AM Subject: [OldTools] Re:Flea mkt finds > GG, > Since no one has answered my WHATSIT question, What I was asking > about, > I've discovered, was a #48 type of tonge and groove plane. Probably > not a > Stanley. > > > Roy Griggs > roygriggs@v... > www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157518 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-02-26 11:51:08 Subject: re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" Benjamin, > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/bMullin/galootmadetools/index.html I finally had time to check out your video. That 'git' of yours cuts better dovetails than I do, plus I like the way he organizes his tools. Nice job. Maybe with more funding for a sequel you could get Vanna to clear the shavings for him. Wiktor, the download went as fast as anything. Heck with those backrubs Al talked about, c'mere and let me give you a big ol' kiss! cur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157519 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-26 12:34:07 Subject: Re: Re: Flea mkt finds On Sunday 26 February 2006 07:36 am, roygriggs@v... wrote: > Since no one has answered my WHATSIT question, What I was asking about, > I've discovered, was a #48 type of tonge and groove plane. Probably not a > Stanley. I own a Craftsman model of the 48, it was made in England for Sears. Mine has a Craftsman stamp on it, but there could be some that don't. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157520 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 12:39:58 Subject: Windfall Well, not exactly wind, but one of my neighbors just came to the door with sawdust all over him. He just cut down a very old cherry tree in another neighbors back yard. I just wheeled home about 3 feet of the tree with all of the crotches. Oh boy, more projects! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157521 ---- From: "Jim Cook" Date: 2006-02-26 15:41:40 Subject: Galoot meets guitar builder, Hi All, Short version: met a now famous guitar builder, ordered a guitar. Long verson: A friend gave me the book "Claptons Guitar: Watching Wayne Henderson Build the Perfect Instrument" by Allen St. John, for Christmas this year. If you haven't read that book and are into acoustic guitars at all, you should read it. I read the book pretty much non-stop. Without giving anything away, Wayne Henderson is pretty much a legend, both as a guitar player and as a guitar builder, and the subject of one of his guitars has been percolating in the back of my mind since Christmas, though I didn't really realize the extent of the percolation. As it happens, my daughter is living in Floyd, VA, and I took my youngest son during this week of school vacation, and he and I drove down from Newton, MA to visit her. Among other things, we did a little tour of Floyd, stopping at the "Picking Porch" music store where I spoke with guitarist/store owner Scott Perry. He mentioned Wayne was going to be teaching a class March 11th at his store, which of course I was going to miss. Scott gave me Wayne's phone number and suggested I give him a call and maybe I could go out and visit him. He explained Wayne was a really nice guy, and wouldn't have a problem with people dropping in. I agonized about that for a while, because I didn't really want to waste the time of a busy man, but in the end I called him, discovered the man answers his own phone. We set up a time for the following day at 2pm, and he gave me directions to get there. Believe me when I say you don't want to try and find him without directions. My daughter's boyfriend told me it was only an hour down the road. What he didn't tell me was that I'd have to average 93 miles per hour to get there, and account for the 7 or 8 traffic lights in Galax that I'd have to stop for. I arrived promptly at 2:40, and walked up to his shop, half expecting him to send me packing. When I walked into the shop, he was sitting in a chair playing one of his guitars, surrounded by several other folks. That was pretty amazing. As it turned out, he had just done some setup work on the guitar for the actual owner. He handed the guitar to the man, and looked up at me over the tops of his glasses, saying "you the fella that said he was going to be here at 2 o'clock?" I said yes and was about to go into apology mode about how I didn't really leave myself enough time, when he added "Well, I didn't make it back here by then either." That's when I started thinking things were possibly going to be ok. On the top of his workbench was a wooden jack plane. I asked him if he used it, he said no, someone had just sent it to him, he didn't know much about it. I looked at it, both the cutter and wedge were in backwards, and the cutter was pretty dull. I offered to sharpen it up for him. He handed me a stone and I went off to another corner, cleaned it up, brought it back, we sent the sole over his j**nt*r for about three passes to flatten it, and he now has a reasonably useful Auburn tool co. jack plane. I told him what the strike button was for, how to tap the cutter until it was the right depth, gave him the date range of when the plane was probably made, and told him about Auburn using prison labor on some of their planes. He had a 1924 Gibson mandolin and a Martin guitar that belong to the fellow that does musical instrument appraisals for Antique Roadshow. The mandolin had some unique properties, and the appraiser wanted to trade it for a guitar made by Wayne. The Martin, a 1961 D28, had the name "JOANN" in 1" square metallic stick-on letters applied to the front of the guitar. I watched Wayne apply heat and careful force to remove that junk, then carefully use naptha and then buffing to completely restore the surface to its original condition. He showed me a guitar body, neck not yet attached, that's going to Doc Watson (yep, *that* Doc Watson). He figures he has to get that one completed fairly soon, since Doc is getting on in years. I went out to my car and brought in my 1978 vintage HD28 (dreadnaught size, Jeff). Wayne played it and pronounced it to be a pretty good guitar. I asked if that meant good for a 70's guitar, and he said it's good compared to any of them. He pulled out another guitar that was simply georgeous, that he was going to deliver to its new owner this weekend. He carefully tuned it, and played it for a while, then asked if I wanted to play it. I had thought about this. I knew if I liked it, I was going to need to order one of my own. It was a risk. I didn't hesitate a second. I played it, sang a song while playing it. This one was set up with medium gauge strings, so it was a little stiffer to play than I'm used to, but the sound was simply superb. That's going to be a very happy customer. I couldn't hold back any longer, and asked him how I got on the list to get one of my own. He said to put my info on a piece of paper with the type of guitar I wanted. At first I said I wanted a dreadnought size. He said he'd make me what I want, but since I've already got a really good dreadnought that I like, I should get an OM size. That was honesty, he really does care that I get the guitar I need. So that's what I've ordered. OM size, Appalachian spruce top, east indian rosewood back and sides, set up for light gauge strings. Some time in the next several years I look forward to getting it. I'll let you know when I do. In conclusion, Wayne is definitely a galoot. I'm pretty sure he's not on the list, but he would fit here if he was. He was perfect willing to show me anything I wanted to know about what he does. He's just an incredibe craftsman. That was the fasted 2-1/2 hours I've ever spent, all enjoyable. Jim Cook Newton, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157522 ---- From: "David C." Date: 2006-02-26 12:58:08 Subject: Re: Tack(?) Hammer Use and Info At 11:53 AM 2/26/2006 -0600, Don McConnell wrote: >The description sounds very similar to a small hammer >which my father owned, and which we simply considered to be a tack >hammer. > >The slotted end was magnetized (is this also true of the hammer in >question?), I have one of those in my hammer drawer as well, purchased at a local hardware store probably 20 years ago. I've always thought of it simply as a tack hammer. When I was a kid around '60 or '61 there was an upholstery shop down the street and I would occasionally hang around there. The guys doing the upholstery work would put a handful of tacks in their mouth then stick the magnetized end of the hammer in their mouth to pick up a tack as one hand was occupied with the hammer and the other was usually holding a web or fabric stretcher. I recall buying boxes of "sterilized" blue steel tacks; I don't know how sterile they were after sitting in a pasteboard box for a few months. Dave C ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157523 ---- From: A Mack Date: 2006-02-26 15:45:45 Subject: micrometers What was the first American made micrometer? I thought that it was the Brown & Sharpe No.-1 but recently I saw a reference to one made by the BRIDGEPORT BRASS CO. shortly before this one. I have also just seen a picture of a mic that was supposed to be made by Lucien Sharpe in 1850, years before the NO.-1 Is there any accurate information on these? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157524 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 14:33:42 Subject: Flux to heat treat? What I am gleaning is that the biggest problem with DIY heat treating is carbon getting seduced by O2. This makes me wonder if the casting flux we use for non-ferrous metals might be of use. By adjusting the ratio of borax to boric acid one can adjust the melting, and thereby the active point, of the flux, which forms a glass like coating on the work piece. This would also act as a temperature indicator. The fused flux/glass could then be picked off with citric acid. _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157525 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-26 18:15:30 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Aside from saws that I buy to collect, the rest of the tools I buy > are with the intention of using. Having ebay available to find those > tools that I wouldn't be able to find otherwise is somewhat > satisfying to me. > > The thing about fleas is that you don't always get to select exactly > what you want, so you take what you find and in some cases end up with > less than desirable tools also. Since the prices can be less (not > always), maybe that is less important. I would rather not packrat a > warehouse full of tools, but rather a nice selection of usable tools > to use in my shop. My $0.02. > "Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. Compared to hunting down tools in the wild, ordering them on Ebay is a pale imitation at best. You just never know what you'll find at a flea market, like the rather rare Disston D-18 ($3) I found the other day. Or the 'Star and Crescent' era Simonds saw I posted about recently ($2). Almost all of the user tools I've got in the Magnetic Anomaly are from flea markets and tag sales. I like looking the tools over before I buy, also why I like the tool sales, like PATINA (March 11, Hot D*mn). I love the Underground Economy. No PayPal, no Visa, no checks, no money orders, just cold hard cash. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157526 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-02-26 18:35:42 Subject: Taber woodie, questions and pictures GG, Walking through the anteek boutique today and noticed a new booth. The owner had a few wooden planes, so I took a look. I have no experience with wooden planes but this one caught my eye. It's marked John M (maybe N) Taber, New Bedford. Questions: Anyone heard of the maker? Do nickers cut on the leading edge side of a skewed blade or the trailing edge side? Do filetster planes ususally have the body made of one piece of wood? This plane body is in two pieces. The wood looks as if probably from the same board. The escapement flows nicely between the parts of the body. Here are some pictures: Nicker and skewed blade http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3578 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3579 Escapement and attachment http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3580 Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157527 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-02-27 08:01:55 Subject: Brace find Galoots all, I recently submitted this pic for your perusal. *http://tinyurl.com/k36md *Neither brace appears to have any maker's marks. I'm curious as to why the smaller one is just that - smaller. Any-one in Galootland have an opinion? PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157528 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-02-26 16:17:54 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures Hi Mike, excellent plane, btw. I once looked up relevant historical info for Tabor, but I cannot find it now. The nicker scores the wood on the leading edge side. Mine also is a single piece. But here are links to my Tabor: http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister1.jpg http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister2.jpg Someone will probably provide the info. If not, I'll hunt it down on my mess of a desk. Take care, Mike > It's marked > John M (maybe N) Taber, New Bedford. > > Questions: > Anyone heard of the maker? > Do nickers cut on the leading edge side of a skewed blade or the > trailing edge side? > Do filetster planes ususally have the body made of one piece of > wood? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157529 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-26 19:26:12 Subject: Re: Brace find At 07:01 PM 2/26/2006, Peter Huisman wrote: >I recently submitted this pic for your >perusal. > >*http://tinyurl.com/k36md > >*Neither brace appears to >have any maker's marks. I'm curious >as to why the smaller one is just that - >smaller. > >Any-one in Galootland have an opinion? I was gonna answer if no one else did. Been my experience that those kind of octagon shaped chucks are usually found on German made braces. I have seen a few and they were marked Germany someplace. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157530 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-26 19:32:43 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures At 06:35 PM 2/26/2006, Mike Hamilton wrote: >GG, > >Walking through the anteek boutique today and noticed a new booth. >The owner had a few wooden planes, so I took a look. I have no >experience with wooden planes but this one caught my eye. It's marked >John M (maybe N) Taber, New Bedford. > >Questions: >Anyone heard of the maker? John M Taber was a plane maker from 1820-1872 >Do nickers cut on the leading edge side of a skewed blade or the >trailing edge side? Huh? The nicker iron edge should be flush with the side of the body as should the edge of the iron. >Do filetster planes ususally have the body made of one piece of wood? Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the fence and depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side mount for the fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane. Hope ya didn't spend all of this weeks lunch money on it......... Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157531 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-02-26 17:11:38 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures > Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the > fence and depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side > mount for the fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane. I disagree it is a user made/modified plane. It is identical in every respect to my example in my previous message. Though my pics don't show the bottom, the brass channels for the adjustment screws are also the same. >From my previous message: http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister1.jpg http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister2.jpg Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157532 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-02-26 16:13:47 Subject: Re: On the trapline--erratum Oops-- I woke up last night with the sudden realization that I typed 1959 for the National Geo article. It should have been _1989_. Sorry about that. And thanks for the responses. You guys are part of the family too. PK >>Here's the favor. Roger told me that there was a National Geographic >>article about trapping, including pictures of him sitting in that very >>cabin skinning martens. It was published in 1959. If anyone has access >>to National Geos that far back, I would really like to get a copy of the >>article. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157533 ---- From: "Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze" Date: 2006-02-26 20:15:04 Subject: Re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" Ben, Maybe it's a guy thing, but I could only get my GITette to pound nails, has never been interested in any sharp stuff, because "daddy always gets hurt too much". Here is something that any galoot should have for such occasions as yours in the video.... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/egsmaze@s.../detai- l?.dir=bc69&.dnm=3bdbre2.jpg&.src=ph I stumbled on these a few weeks ago at a Meijer, and thought it would be the perfect galoot accessory to keep in my toolbox with the chisels. I cut myself this morning taking a tab off of a pop can, and SWMBO asked if I was going to use one of the new bandaids, but I told they are reserved for "proper" shop accidents, like chisel, saw and plane iron cuts.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Mullin" To: "Oldtools" Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: [OldTools] Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" > Fellow Old Tool Folks, > > I'd like to announce my next video. This time it doesn't feature the > cute GIT, just me. Sorry about that. I finally succeeded in creating > what I'm calling a "Chisel Plow Plane". I'm not sure if that is an > accurate title or not. Basically its a block of wood that holds a 1/4" > chisel in such a way that I can plow a groove. I've seen something > similar on St. Roy's show. > > Anyhow, here is a link to the page that describes the project and the > video (9MB windows media format) showing the tool and me using it (and > cutting myself with it, doh). Thanks for looking and thanks for > hosting Wiktor. > > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/bMullin/galootmadetools/index.html > > Ben Who is going to head out and enjoy one of his other hobbies > tonight under the clear dark sky... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157534 ---- From: Chuck Taylor Date: 2006-02-26 17:42:46 Subject: Razor hones The recent thread about Franz Swaty razor hones motivated me to see what kind I have. Besides the Franz Swaty (Marburg, Austria) hone, I have two other kinds: Barber Junior The C-MON Hone, Peter J. Michels Inc., Brooklyn, NY The C-MON hone has two sides: One is grey and marked "Use this side first". The other is reddish and is marked "Finish honing on this side." The Barber Junior box says "Draw the Razor diagonally across the Hone as shown in cut. The amojnt of strokes necessary for putting a razor in A-1 shape depends entirely upon condition of the razor; ordinarily 4 to 6 strokes are sufficient. USE LATER--KEEP HONE CLEAN". Chuck Taylor North of Seattle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157535 ---- From: Benjamin Mullin Date: 2006-02-26 19:44:13 Subject: Re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" Oh, you mean my GIT's Minnie Mouse bandaide wasn't appropriate? Oops. I probably should get some bandaide's out there so I do more than just run and get a paper towel. A bandaide would probably have prevented the bleeding on the box. Ben Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze wrote: > Ben, > > Maybe it's a guy thing, but I could only get my GITette to pound > nails, has never been interested in any sharp stuff, because "daddy > always gets hurt too much". > > Here is something that any galoot should have for such occasions as > yours in the video.... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/egsmaze@s.../det- > ail?.dir=bc69&.dnm=3bdbre2.jpg&.src=ph > > > I stumbled on these a few weeks ago at a Meijer, and thought it would > be the perfect galoot accessory to keep in my toolbox with the > chisels. I cut myself this morning taking a tab off of a pop can, and > SWMBO asked if I was going to use one of the new bandaids, but I told > they are reserved for "proper" shop accidents, like chisel, saw and > plane iron cuts.... > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Mullin" > To: "Oldtools" Sent: > Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: [OldTools] Galoot Made > "Chisel Plow Plane" > > >> Fellow Old Tool Folks, >> >> I'd like to announce my next video. This time it doesn't feature the >> cute GIT, just me. Sorry about that. I finally succeeded in creating >> what I'm calling a "Chisel Plow Plane". I'm not sure if that is an >> accurate title or not. Basically its a block of wood that holds a >> 1/4" chisel in such a way that I can plow a groove. I've seen >> something similar on St. Roy's show. >> >> Anyhow, here is a link to the page that describes the project and the >> video (9MB windows media format) showing the tool and me using it >> (and cutting myself with it, doh). Thanks for looking and thanks for >> hosting Wiktor. >> >> http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/bMullin/galootmadetools/ind- >> ex.html >> >> Ben Who is going to head out and enjoy one of his other hobbies >> tonight under the clear dark sky... >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157536 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-26 18:33:08 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? On Sunday 26 February 2006 03:15 pm, Tom Price wrote: > "Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. Sure. > Compared to hunting down tools in the wild In the wild? Getting up early to go to a flea market so you can pick though "the wild" before another galoot? It's not as if you were finding them in someone's attic, most of you guys are buying old rusty tools that someone doesn't know the value of. Calling a flea market "the wild" is quite homorous actually.;-) Have to admit, I also like many new tools also. Lie-Nielsen planes, many new saws are fine tools (LN, Adria, Norse Woodsmith, Wenzloff, Hoff), as are many new chisels (Barr, LN, AI, Japanese of various brands, etc...). These are even easier to buy, you can get them in woodworking stores that are like supermarkets, work right out of the box, and provide a lifetime of usage in many cases. Many new tools are better mouse traps. As an example, I have a Stanley 65 boxwood marking gauge which I bought "in the wild" for $0.50. This was at a garage sale. Even after filing the marker flat as a cutter, my almost new Tite-Mark provide a much better tool, which is easier to use and the mark is much nicer. While I "brake for old tools", and stop at garage sales and drop by fleas when I see them, I haven't been able to find much in those places, and more so have spent more time and energy for the ROI I have been rewarded with. Other items will just most likely not be able to be found "in the wild". Where would I buy a perfect handle drawknife? How many have you seen in the wild? How many perfect handle ball pein hammers have you found in the wild? Don't get me wrong, there are certainly plenty of tools to be found out there, just that there are many that have very little chance, if any, of finding. I don't see any advantage of not buying old tools I see and like, no matter where I find them. And I buy some old tools from dealers also. Wether it's ebay, an old tool dealer, flea market, tool swap, collector, or whoever...I can accept finding tools from all of these resources. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157537 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-02-26 18:38:30 Subject: Re: Galoot Made "Chisel Plow Plane" On 26 Feb 2006 at 19:44, Benjamin Mullin wrote: > Oh, you mean my GIT's Minnie Mouse bandaide wasn't appropriate? Oops. > > I probably should get some bandaide's out there so I do more than just > run and get a paper towel. A bandaide would probably have prevented the > bleeding on the box. Always keep pressure dressings in the shop! And a little tip I learned from an old jeweler about 32 years ago, turpentine will keep drill holes and saw cuts in the fingers from being sore the next day. DMSO is best for burns, but turpentine is a "counter irritant" and is great for those shop boo-boo's! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157538 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-02-27 14:01:22 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan et al, The way 'public liability' insurance is becoming alarmingly expensive for small flea market stall holders in Australia (presumably the US and UK as well) we may soon see the demise of these markets and swap meets etc. Maybe, one day soon, we will be calling eBay, the 'wild'. Peter B, in hot, humid, stormy NSW Australia Alan DuBoff wrote: >On Sunday 26 February 2006 03:15 pm, Tom Price wrote: > > >>"Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. >> >> >>Compared to hunting down tools in the wild >> >> > >In the wild? Getting up early to go to a flea market so you can pick though >"the wild" before another galoot? It's not as if you were finding them in >someone's attic, most of you guys are buying old rusty tools that someone >doesn't know the value of. > >Calling a flea market "the wild" is quite homorous actually.;- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157539 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-26 21:59:27 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? GG, E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been un-able to find in any other venue that I could afford. Heck, Peter McB, finds more interesting American tools in Australia, than I do in Oklahoma. So, I've bought tools from Australia, American tools. E-Bay is a great equalizer when you live in area's not rich in old tools... Some day I might even try selling a tool there...nah, I don't sell tools, I buy tools. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157540 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-02-26 20:04:55 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Hi Jim, It seems to me that the value of eBay and its appropriateness as a market for old tools depends in large part on your knowledge of the tool, the information you are presented with, and your tolerance for risk. My tolerance is pretty low, so I tend to stick to very low-bid stuff (I don't play poker and I don't bet on college basketball, either!). Even then, an item or a seller can fail to meet my expectations, and that's not nearly as fun as a great find at a local flea. Put that in contrast with the fairly low-risk terms of the porch, where fantastic galoots with regular FS lists are doing the legwork for you and taking the risk out of, um... building your cache of daily users. ;^) So consider this my plug for the porch. Long live FMM, no matter what day of the month you post your FS!!! Alex ... in Independence, Missouri Thinking that Sandy, Dan, and Bruce have all made it entirely too easy! ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim McVicar To: "oldtools@r..." Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:29:41 PM Subject: [OldTools] Is eBay a four-letter word? As a new galoot, I've noticed a few members mention eBay items they've purchased, with a bit of apprehension. It would appear that this auction site is the Harry Potter equivalent of "He who must not be named". I have several items I've picked up on You-Know-Where and have found it to be a great option since there is not an abundance of old tool resources in my area. If I drive for an hour, I can find high-priced antique shops. If I drive for four hours, I can find antique barns with better deals. If I stay put, I can hunt for great deals online and find items that are not available to me otherwise. This includes a beautiful rosewood and brass brace that I picked up for three dollars because it was missing the knob at the top. I had some rosewood in the shop and now I have a complete brace. Even with shipping, I kept it under $10. So, am I misinterpreting the timid references to "that auction site", or is there an interesting philosophy on old tools and "you know what" that you guys aren't sharing with me? Just curious. ----------------------------------------------- Jim McVicar Saint John, New Brunswick Canada's first incorporated city ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157541 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-26 20:09:03 Subject: Re: Tack(?) Hammer Use and Info > I recall buying boxes of "sterilized" blue steel tacks; Spitting tacks it was called in my neighborhood. Usually held between the lips and not loose inside the mouth. Carpet layers and upolstery. The straight billet, no adze eye, split end tack hammer has to be the most common pattern of all tack hammers. They made them forever even if it seemed to me they were always weakly magnetized. What'd ya want for a nickel ninety eight? They were cheapest. I'd love to find a real bill posters hammer sometime. With the 4 foot handle still attached, just to see how they carved them. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157542 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-02-26 20:46:08 Subject: Re: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? --- roygriggs@v... wrote: > GG, > E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been > un-able > to find in any other venue that I could afford. Well said, Sir--- I lurked, sniped and glommed a type 4 #2 (tiny yet useful Stanley smoothing plane, Jeff, with about 150 years of use) in very decent user shape for less than $300 on the 'bay---IIRC---might have been closer to $200---in any case it's the most I ever spent on a handtool and the biggest bargain too. Right after I won the "auction" Patrick Leach pinged me to offer a somewhat nicer type 4 #2 for about three times the price (which I had expected to pay---someday) and I had to say "Thanks ever so much for keeping me in mind but I just bought one cheap off a blind widda." Patrick (if you're reading) I really do appreciate the 'heads up' and would've jumped at your price. And o'course, you gotta tap the iron from side to side, no lateral adjuster to do it backwards for you. best to you and all galoots; gAM in Seattle ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. Robert A Heinlein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157543 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-27 00:32:19 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Sunday 26 February 2006 03:15 pm, Tom Price wrote: >> "Somewhat satisfying" being the operative term here. > > Sure. > >> Compared to hunting down tools in the wild > > In the wild? Getting up early to go to a flea market so you can pick though > "the wild" before another galoot? It's not as if you were finding them in > someone's attic, most of you guys are buying old rusty tools that someone > doesn't know the value of. > Well, yeah, buying 'rusty' old tools that someone doesn't know the value of is pretty much the point of the whole experience, isn't it?. Like these 'rusty' old handsaws: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_handsaws.jpg These are a sampling of the low-priced ones. What I could get on my bench. Ok, the D-95 with the Victory logo was $25 and the mint D-8 I got at PATINA for $20. The whole pile averages out to ~$6 per. The streaks on the Atkins panel saw in the front are paraffin, a tip I picked up here on the porch. Here's a shot of a sampling of the 'rusty' old backsaws. Nothing over $6 in the pile (averages out to <$4). One Geo. Bishop, one Atkins and the rest Disstons. http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg Sources were PATINA, auctions and other local venues, and various flea markets and stores in Ohio. All users of course. Backup is important. They don't make them like they used to. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Got A Monkey On My Back That Taps Me On The Head Whenever It Sees A Disston The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157544 ---- From: "jeff strickland" Date: 2006-02-27 00:39:20 Subject: Question about a tool brand, and WTB Hello friends, I was digging around in my toolchest tonight, straightening up, doing a little maintenance... Anyway, I picked up my great grandfather's combination square. It's marked Steelcraft. I'm not familiar with that name. Can anyone tell me a little about the company and their quality? It seems like a nice square, and I use it a good bit. Also, I wanted to ask around and see if anyone has a #40 scrub plane, or a Millers Falls #1 shave or equivalent style shave that they would like to sell. Regards, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157545 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-02-27 16:13:28 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? ooh, err, ahh, goodness. I'm speechless. Tom Price wrote: > these 'rusty' old handsaws: > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_handsaws.jpg > The whole pile averages out to ~$6 per. > Here's a shot of a sampling of the 'rusty' old backsaws. Nothing over $6 > in the pile (averages out to <$4). > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg > Sources were PATINA, auctions and other local venues, and various flea > markets and stores in Ohio. After searching high and low, exploring the wilds, cruising the bay, I remain empty handed. Based on the prices I see, the local flea vendors seem to think that rust is gold. Postage on something like a handsaw would come to $15 so things on the bay are overpriced very easily. Six dollars. I can't believe it. aargh.. $4... mutter, mutter, grumble, grumble sobbing and crawling back into my place back in the far corner .... -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157546 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-26 22:39:14 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? On Sunday 26 February 2006 09:32 pm, Tom Price wrote: > Well, yeah, buying 'rusty' old tools that someone doesn't know the value > of is pretty much the point of the whole experience, isn't it?. Not exactly for me. Certainly everyone wants a good deal, and cost is relative, IMO. I have a couple sides. One side I want to fill my toolbox with a nice complimentary selection of tools. I don't want 8 Stanley no 5s and 2 Stanley no 4s because that's what I found at the flea. Hey, if I find what I wanted at the flea or garage sale, better yet. I don't find such a selection. I want to get to some of the tool swaps if I can get away, the last one in Aug. up here was not good time for me. Another side of me I like to collect backsaws, I've found saws that I wouldn't find otherwise, by using ebay. > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg Nice backsaws, but how is this any different than me buying a split-nut disston for $20 off ebay, especially one with a tight handle. Some saws require some work, I would be the first to admit, as you probably would yourself. Since it's not just about stockpiling tools for me, > Got A Monkey On My Back That Taps Me On The Head Whenever It Sees A > Disston Odd monkey, mine taps for all brands, but he mostly taps at backsaws. For that matter, I'm very much looking forward to kicking around a Wenzloff & Sons saw...(he keeps threatening;-). I know, not an old tool...but I like new tools also. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157547 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-02-27 17:43:48 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Peter, m'lad, You say > Six dollars. I can't believe it. aargh.. > > $4... mutter, mutter, grumble, grumble > > sobbing and crawling back into my place back in the far corner .... Try, say, the Caboolture flea from crack-o-dawn every Sunday except show-week (June?) Ask the dealers there where they vend their wares on Saturdays and then ask the other Saturday dealers when you go to another flea the following Saturday where they ply their trade on Sundays and you will find that most of rural South-east Queensland is alive with fleas every weekend with handsaws $A5.00 to $A8.00 if you appear neither anxious nor discerning. Preferred approach: "Any good for cutting a bit of wood with?" Walk away from anyone who tries to sell you a "collector's item". Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157548 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-02-27 20:53:21 Subject: Re: Galoot meets guitar builder, another slippery slope Hi all, Coincidently, I recently borrowed from my local library the October '05 Popular Mechanics magazine which has a two page article on Wayne Henderson. More pictures than story though! Peter B, NSW Australia Jim Cook wrote: >Hi All, > >Short version: met a now famous guitar builder, ordered a guitar. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157549 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 09:57:00 Subject: Addis information from the Hawley collection I was browsing the Hawley site: http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley which I knew had a micrometer article to reply to the question thereon. But I tripped over this: http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley/project/research/addis A preliminary history of Addis, put together from information in the Hawley archive. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157550 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 09:57:43 Subject: Re: micrometers A Mack wrote: > What was the first American made micrometer? I thought that it was the > Brown & Sharpe No.-1 but recently I saw a reference to one made by the > BRIDGEPORT BRASS CO. shortly before this one. I have also just seen > a picture of a mic that was supposed to be made by Lucien Sharpe in > 1850, years before the NO.-1 Is there any accurate information on these? Does this help? http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley/project/research/micrometers BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157551 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:00:24 Subject: Re: Brace find Anthony Seo wrote: > At 07:01 PM 2/26/2006, Peter Huisman wrote: > >> I recently submitted this pic for your >> perusal. >> >> *http://tinyurl.com/k36md >> >> *Neither brace appears to >> have any maker's marks. I'm curious >> as to why the smaller one is just that - >> smaller. >> >> Any-one in Galootland have an opinion? > > > I was gonna answer if no one else did. Been my experience that those > kind of octagon shaped chucks are usually found on German made braces. > I have seen a few and they were marked Germany someplace. Octagonal chucks are common on the better English made braces. These are more complex and expensive to make than a cylindrical knurled chuck. They give a better appearance and grip IMHO. And while I'm on. tiny braces (5") sweep are often called electrician's braces. I assume they were used for small holes and/or limited access. I use one to drive a countersink. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157552 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:03:01 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > > As an example, I have a Stanley 65 boxwood marking gauge which I bought "in > the wild" for $0.50. This was at a garage sale. Even after filing the marker > flat as a cutter, my almost new Tite-Mark provide a much better tool, which > is easier to use and the mark is much nicer. You just haven't expended an adequately uneconomic amount of time :-) http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2731 This make a mark every bit as good as a Tite Mark. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157553 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:11:39 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) Richard.Wilson@s... wrote: > The question arose about hacksaws. I think it was Scott who ended a > reply with something like 'anything bigger and I call in an > apprentice' - in other words, the old days of hacksawing huge lumps of > metal by hand have ended. Heh. Just think about the implications of the existence of... http://tinyurl.com/n75m7 http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/siteb- uilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://roseanti- quetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mfpage102103.jpg&ta- rget=tlx_new&title=Hack%20Saw%20Frames%20#%201237,%2099%20and%201934B The Millers Falls #24 - called a "rail saw" with a 10 1/4" capacity. Not to mention: http://tinyurl.com/f4ud2 http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/siteb- uilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://roseanti- quetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hickmanhacksaws4.jp- g&target=tlx_new&title=Lancashire%20metal%20Bow%20Saw%20Frame The Goodell bench hack saw, essetially a human powered "power" hack saw, and the Lever rail and girder saw... I bet those guys had big and/or sore arms! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157554 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 10:15:23 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) Richard.Wilson@s... wrote: > > Fretsaws, as bugbear mentioned, are set for a pull cut, again because the > frame can't remain rigid enough to do much else, and, luckily, the face > side is normally uppermost, where you can see the entry point of the blade > and the marked line. - You could say the same about your treadle bandsaw. It also means that most of the sawdust ends up on the side where your marked line ISN'T, which is good. A generic problem with pull saws is that the dust (tends to) get in the way of your mark. > So the good news is that you need at least 2 of each type of saw, each set > differently, and maybe more if you take different blade requirements into > account. Spoken like a proud member of the SGFH! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157555 ---- From: Jim Erdman Date: 2006-02-27 05:35:30 Subject: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. Someone must have found a stack of the books. I got my copy for not much more than that, but shipping from England added a bit to the total. Maybe I'll have to get an extra copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as many as I could afford, and sold them to galoots at a big profit. http://product.half.ebay.com/Making-Modifying-Woodworking- Tools_W0QQprZ2168984QQtgZvidetailsQQitemZ12602856140 Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157556 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-02-27 08:51:32 Subject: RE: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Yes, I just got a copy from them, found through a listing on my wish list on Amazon. Shipping was two weeks, but the book was in first-class condition. Tom Ellis Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim Erdman > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:36 AM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by > Jim Kingshott > > I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book > remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying > Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157557 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-27 13:56:14 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Jim Erdman wrote: > I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is > selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for > $12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. Someone must have found a stack > of the books. I got my copy for not much more than that, but shipping > from England added a bit to the total. Maybe I'll have to get an extra > copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as many as I could afford, > and sold them to galoots at a big profit. http://product.half.ebay.com/Making-Modifying-Woodworking- > Tools_W0QQprZ2168984QQtgZvidetailsQQitemZ12602856140 Makes this guy look an optimist. http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetailsPL?bi=652574994 he wants 125 USD!!! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157558 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-02-27 10:02:13 Subject: Inshave Handle Caps I picked up a small, rusty inshave on the weekend, for $5.00, at the flea market. The metal is quite thick, so removing the rust shouldn't be a problem. I can easily remove 1/64th of an inch without weakening the tool structure. The handles are the big issue. They are bone dry and splintering, with chips and chunks missing out of them. I plan to replace the handles but have been trying to wrap my head around the end caps. These are the caps that have a small hole in the middle where the tang passes through and then gets peened like a rivet. The options I'm considering are: - Grind the "rivet" part off, remove the caps, make the new handles slightly shorter (to allow me a bit of tang to peen) and put the caps back on. - Forget the caps and simply cut barbs in the tangs that will keep the handles attached (I'm assuming the tang inside the handles is not rusted). Keep in mind, I have not yet ventured into the world of blacksmithing. As usual, I am looking for, open to and appreciative of any wisdom from the porch. Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick Home of Canada's widest, shortest and steepest Main Street ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157559 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-27 07:46:06 Subject: Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, I need some help in naming a Toolmaker of the Month for OldToolsShop.com for March, 2006. Any suggestion will be appreciated. Please include link to the Website and any data if you have. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157560 ---- From: "Steve K" Date: 2006-02-27 09:54:35 Subject: Need help with 2 Yankee screwdrivers Hi everybody, I've got 2 Yaknee screwdrivers, each with a different problem. The first is a North Bros 31A, patented Dec 11.23. I cannot get bits to stay in the chuck/holder. The little steel nub inside is present but seems worn down. How can I take this thing apart and replace/fix the problem? The 2nd is a either a 130A or a 131A (can't remember right now). I've got a #2 Robertson bit in there now and I can't get it out. The sleeve on the chuck moves freely but the bit, she seems stuck real good. Advice? Suggestions? Oh yeah, are these supposed to be spring loaded and return to the extended position? If not, which models do have that feature? These both came as a part of a box lot of rust some time ago and I'm just starting to use them. Man, how did I ever live without ratching screwdrivers before? I love these things. Great stuff and another slippery slope. Thanks for your help, Steve Kubien Ajax, Ontario ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157561 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-02-27 09:28:18 Subject: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is not as popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the market is for odd Stanley pieces? Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company tools is deep. THCKK has a good website and active members, but that membership seems limited and aging. Are the younger collectors and users seeking out Hardware Company items? Regards, Steve - well known Millers Falls/ YANKEE / Disston man ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157562 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-02-27 12:13:08 Subject: Re: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers [and ebay] Steve wrote... > It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model > number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong > pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is not as > popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the market > is for odd Stanley pieces? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ My impression after selling many planes on ebay for the last 7 plus years the trend today is really growing into people collecting specific "Types" of planes. By types I mean planes of a certain time period as typed in the Walters Stanley book [and others I suppose]. Used to be good enough if the plane was a pre war plane or maybe a Sweet heart but today guys are trying to get a collection of say type 10s [made between 1907-1909] or type 11s [1910-1918] ...if the plane was made in 1906 or 1919 they don't want it ! Kind of funny but in my experance many of these guys still consider themselves to be the noble "Tool User" rather then that vile " Tool Collector" go figure on that one. .....I was just having a conversation the other day with another tool man about how the internet and the Ebay in particular has changed tool buying and collecting and one of the things was how easy it made it for so many people to get into it. Basicaly all it takes is a credit card and you can get what ever it is that you want or can afford [and a maybe on the afford, eh?] Befor this the idea of building a collection of only Stanley planes made between 1907 and 1909 would be rather daunting at the least but today could be done pretty easly with out leaving the comfort of your house....which is what many people are doing. With collectors like this the important thing is just what it is that they are buying and nothing wrong with that. Personaly I enjoy hunting in the wild of the flea markets and fighting in the trenches of the auction to get my stuff. .... No doubt about it the giant Ebay I think has been responsiable for many new people getting interested into old tools and becoming collectors and users of the same enabling them to find easly what they want No longer does a person that is interested in oldtools have to "work" for what they want as Ebays enables more people who just wants the tools to get them . A two edge sword for us all...More people interested in old tools but less out in the wild as more people are selling them on the ebay.Same for me, I do lots of selling on the Ebay and do very well but then I am sure some tools that I normaly would get instead get put on the ebay instead of get sold to me locally but then I get much more for what i sell now then I did when selling off ebay.This is a big problim with some antiques though I think with tools since it is such a specialised antique field and the fact that most sellers think they have so little worth it is a lesser worry to me.....Still lots of good tools waiting to get bagged ....Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157563 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-02-27 12:15:44 Subject: Re: micrometers Galoots, A Mack asked: "What was the first American made micrometer? I thought that it was the Brown & Sharpe No.-1 but recently I saw a reference to one made by the BRIDGEPORT BRASS CO. shortly before this one. I have also just seen a picture of a mic that was supposed to be made by Lucien Sharpe in 1850, years before the NO.-1 Is there any accurate information on these?" Bugbear provided a web site response giving some background and history on micrometers. But, I'd like to try to answer the question from another perspective. The basic question, "What was the first American made micrometer?", is not answerable IMHO. Add the word "practical" in front of "American" and the answer is J. R. Brown and Sharpe. They made it after seeing the French version of a micrometer called System Palmer (spelling?). It arguably improved on the French one, but was primarily made by them to satisfy the long standing metal gaging problems of the Waterbury Brass Association. It was called "A Pocket Sheet Metal Gage". I recognize it as the first practical (1857) American micrometer (and arguably the worlds first practical one) because it was massed produced, sold in large (relatively) numbers and made measurements in thousands something any fat fingered mechanic could accomplish repeatedly with the same results. Who made the first American micrometer? I won't give a name because I will likely be wrong. However, whenever the issue is decided in history, I'm betting it will be a clock maker working in some small clock shop on a side street. The clock shop of David and J.R. Brown had micro-meter measuring devices they made. I've seen others. I bet the Swiss clock makers had them much earlier. Also, to answer the question of who made the in first, one has to decide what a "micrometer" is. Is it something that measures in 1000ths or smaller of a meter? Does it have to be sort of "U" shaped with a thimble and barrel? Or can it be any vernier comparator that measures in parts of a meter and closes on the object being measured. What do you think? *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157564 ---- From: Paul Honore Date: 2006-02-27 12:33:33 Subject: Re: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers Steve Reynolds wrote: >It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model >number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong >pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is not as >popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the >market is for odd Stanley pieces? > > >Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company tools >is deep. THCKK has a good website and active members, but that >membership seems limited and aging. Are the younger collectors and >users seeking out Hardware Company items? > > > I'm not sure about Hardware Company items but I've noticed one thing at Spicer's Auctions. The average age of the crowd is probably 55+ years. There are a few younger guys of course but I think fewer young people get exposed to tools though IA classes in school and by observing their parents using them, etc. And most of what the younger folks see are power tools. I don't see tool collecting as a growing "hobby". Kind of like stamp collecting. When I was a kid, there were lots of hobbies like that. Nowadays kids seem to be consumed by Ipods, GameBoys and Instant Massaging. Too many distractions. Bah humbug. Paul Honore Hebron CT where it feels like the beginning of January, not March ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157565 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-02-27 09:33:25 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) > Richard.Wilson wrote: >> The question arose about hacksaws. I think it was Scott who ended >> a reply >> with something like 'anything bigger and I call in an apprentice' >> - in >> other words, the old days of hacksawing huge lumps of metal by >> hand have >> ended. And Paul Womack suggested that we . . > . . . think about the implications of the existence of... > http://tinyurl.com/n75m7 Yes--saw a railway rail in two by hand. But more to the subject line, note that all these MF catalog descriptions say that the "blades can be faced in four directions" (i.e., away from the frame either push or pull; or toward the inside of the frame either push or pull). IOW, the makers of these saws recognized either pull or push as viable options, and left it up to the user. Tom Holloway, in rainy Vacaville, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157566 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-27 12:52:30 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures At 08:11 PM 2/26/2006, Mike Wenzloff wrote: >>Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the >>fence and depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side >>mount for the fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane. > >I disagree it is a user made/modified plane. It is identical in >every respect to my example in my previous message. > From my previous message: >http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/m_fillister1.jpg Well my guess on that was based on a couple of things. First look at the patina difference between the fence and the body http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3579 Having handled more than my share of fenced wooden planes, moving and sash fillesters, plows, and the bigger tongue & groove planes (called plank planes by some), I'd say in 99% of the cases the patina is consistent on all the wooden parts. That kind of difference in patina sets off alarm bells. >Though my pics don't show the bottom, the brass channels for the >adjustment screws are also the same. As I did say, it was a fillester fence would have the brass wear guides. The other point to be made is again, I've either sold or had in my hands at some point well over 150 moving fillesters in the past dozen years by American and English makers, I have never, ever seen one cobbled together like that. It's like Taber had a bunch of big skew rabbets sitting around unsold and decided to convert them to fillesters. Which could well be. The fact that there are 2 of them in existence could well mean they are original. Now if a third shows up... Tony (where winter has descendeth again) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157567 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-02-27 18:04:55 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Jim discovered a stack of Kingshott >I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is >selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for >$12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. I got my copy for not much more >than that, but shipping from England added a bit to the total. Maybe >I'll have to get an extra copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as >many as I could afford, and sold them to galoots at a big profit. >Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) Well, as the sponsor of the first bulk buy of these, back in the last century, I'd say go ahead - buy them all. There's been a steady call for these books on the list, even though I think I found homes for nearly a hundred of them. Shipping transcontinental is an issue, I found the whole thing cost me a (small) bit of money, but it's never been The Way Of The Porch to put personal gain before collective edification. Our recent appreciation of Wiktor's efforts shows that. The main thing is to stop them getting into the hands of folk who won't appreciate them. Buy ! Buy! Buy! Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot. Collective Book buy coordinator #1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157568 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-02-27 13:06:23 Subject: Re: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers At 10:28 AM 2/27/2006, Steve Reynolds wrote: >It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each >model number was a popular thing in the late 1990s. This led to some >strong pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense that it is >not as popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how >strong the market is for odd Stanley pieces? Well not being much on the Stanley side of things, my perception, based on what I see stuff going for out on the 'Bay, is that most of it is selling for 50 to 80% of low book value. Oh you will see the odd burp here and there, but that is just what I see happening. (I do kinda keep a watch on prices so I don't do the old pay $50 for book value $100 item that is selling for $35 these days, been there done that, got that the scars to prove it). One of the locals here had an English Stanley 78 in the box go for $81, but had to try a couple of times to move a 113 Type 2 for $75. Don't make much sense to me at times. >Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company >tools is deep. Keen Kutter has been kind dead unless it's super super crispy and/or something very unusual. Winchester, the more common items have sort of slowed down, but the odd piece will go strong. I don't see too much else of anything else other than chisels and that's a whole 'nother ball game. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157569 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 10:09:14 Subject: Re: Inshave Caps/General Metalwork Jim Since the tangs were soft enough to pein the first time, they might be soft enough to "unpein". Namely, split off the remains of the old handles and support the bottom side of the washers over steel vise jaws. Take an appropriate punch, a tapered punch to start, and drive them back through. Heavy sure blows work better than little taps. Might not work and they might not give and you'll have to grind them off and shorten the tangs for the redo, but what have you got to lose? Might as well try it the easy way first. If the washers flatten out some, place the washer over a very large nut or mechanic's socket and redome with the ball end of a ball pein hammer. This is very easy unless you get your holddown fingers too close to the action and raise a fearful blood blister, so watch it! Otherwise a few sharp strokes does it. You can dome up any washer this way or cut some steel disks and make new ones from scratch if you need. Speaking of which, how many steel punches n chisels does the average Galoot keep, I wonder? I never counted mine but there has to 30 or 50 pounds of steel for this duty near my vice area. Punches of many, many sizes and configurations, chisels ground to many different cutting angles and several patterns and sizes, some grade 8 bolts vandalized into punches I could't find but needed anyway. Dozens at least. Teeny ones to huge ones. I keep the small ones handy in racks which are really just scraps of 2X4 with as many holes drilled close as I figure will still hold up as a piece of wood. 1/2" holes will do for a multitude of small punch sizes. They stretch out maybe 4' against the wall behind the vise bench. I found it easier to just drill through the 2X and place thin drawer liner stock over the back when done. You kind of need the whole 1 1/2" of support to keep the punches upright. The big ones I store below on a shelf with the business ends facing out so I can see them. I'm sure there are a few I've never even used. There are a few that routinely get hit hard several times a week over some job or other. Many just wait for their opportune, only-this-one-will-do, turn, which does come up. They are so unglamorous and so ungloatworthy, yet so indispensible. Like hammers, they are the backbone of simple metal work. I keep one larger vise to punish with the heavy action (6" jaws) and a smaller more precise vise in better shape for more delicate duty (3"). Regardless of the job I always try and see if I can do the work from the "off" side of the vise jaws initially. The off side for me would be the rt side since I'm left handed. Even a big steel vise will rack and wear on your best side faster than you'd like, so at least attempting to use the off side is always best since there are too many jobs I can only do on the -premium- corner of any vise. I try to favor that corner as much as possible. Oh, I scribed a thin wood shelf to lay tight against the wall behind the bench, filling any gap on the rough cement and tacked to the benchtop in front. This was after fishing with a magnet on a string way too many times getting whatever it was I dropped behind the cabinet, back up the hard way. Took less than 1/2 hr as I recall and definitely recommended! This steel vise bench, like my old first woodworking bench, is anchored to both the wall and floor for sheeza-no-move security. The woodbench has another of the same scribed wall hugging backshelves. It's amazing how many small things get crowded to the back of a bench and dissapear if you don't make sure they can't. Simonds made a hacksaw frame essentially the same as the Miller's Falls 1237 Bugbear just showed and I use one of those with a fine tooth blade for delicate work. It's a good heavy frame but the bakelite handle couldn't live forever. I used koa on mine. Sometime later they brought out the fully enclosed handle and I have one marked Proto and another marked Craftsman in the old jaggedy looking lettering. The Proto is still in pretty good shape but the Craftsman doesn't have a lot of nickel left and is sporting some crotch walnut handles since the plastic grips were in sad shape when I met it. These enclosed hacksaw handles save you a lot of skin on heavier work. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157570 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-02-27 10:14:11 Subject: Re: Inshave Handle Caps On Feb 27, 2006, at 6:02 AM, Jim McVicar wrote: > I picked up a small, rusty inshave . . . . I plan to replace the > handles but have been > trying to wrap my head around the end caps. These are the caps that > have a > small hole in the middle where the tang passes through and then > gets peened > like a rivet. The options I'm considering are: > - Grind the "rivet" part off, remove the caps, make the new handles > slightly > shorter (to allow me a bit of tang to peen) and put the caps back on. > - Forget the caps and simply cut barbs in the tangs that will keep the > handles attached (I'm assuming the tang inside the handles is not > rusted). Coupla notes on this vexing situation: On option 2, in use there will be a lot of pulling force exerted on the handles of this thing (sure it's not a scorp? ;-) and barbs on the tangs will likely strip before too long. Plus which the caps are "right" for this tool. Option 1 is a possibility, if you don't mind the handles being maybe 1/4" shorter than the original. You might also consider removing what's left of the original handles, and making new handles, shaping the bottom to fit inside the caps, which are left on the tang. Use a salvaged section of the old handle as a template. Once the handles are shaped, slit them lengthwise with a thin-kerfed saw. Then cut a square-cornered groove down the center of each half to accommodate the tangs exactly. If the tangs are tapered, taper the groove. That way the handles will not spin on the tang. Install the new handles by gluing the two halves together around the tang, fitted into the caps. If you have neither a lathe nor a section of used shovel handle around as raw material, you might browse the garden tools section of your local hardware or garden supply store for replacement handles of an appropriate diameter, that you could use as a raw material "blank" for the purpose at hand, cutting, carving and shaping as necessary Good luck, Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157571 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-02-27 13:35:08 Subject: RE: Collecting Stanley by the Numbers Listmom Steve raises a couple of interesting points: 1: >It seemed like collecting Stanley tools by acquiring one of each model number was a popular >thing in the late 1990s. This led to some strong pricing for the odd Stanley tools. I get the sense >that it is not as popular as it once was. Anyone have thoughts as to how strong the market is for >odd Stanley pieces? By "odd Stanley tools" I assume Steve is talking about things other than rules, planes, chisels, levels, gages, etc--the tool groups that seem to attract large numbers of collectors. So maybe we're talking about mechanics tools, Four-Square tools, hammers, dibbles, screw drivers, etc. And I agree to a point. As Paul Honore pointed out (as have others) the tool collecting crowd tends to be an scenescent group, and maybe the maturity of their collections precludes much interest in the sorts of things they already have. But I remain surprised by the interest that sometimes meets "odd" Stanley tools" that I sometimes throw out on my Forsale list. For example a couple of weeks ago I listed a nice example of an ordinary pair of pliers, with a nice Stanley Sweetheart mark. Walter's old big book lists this thing as the No. 3 gripping pliers and puts a value of $20 to $80 (higher value to the SW mark). So, I put a price of $45 on it, figuring that seemed high to me. Guess what? I had to beat the prospective buyers off. I conclude that there are folks out there still looking for the oddball Stanley numbers. Which comes to Steve's second question: >Also, I don't get a sense that the collecting of Hardware Company tools is >deep. THCKK has a >good website and active members, but that membership >seems limited and aging. Are the >younger collectors and users seeking out >Hardware Company items? Of course the classic hardware collectors are the guys and dolls looking for Keen Kutter and Winchester tools. Especially in the Mid-west I think that is still a fair market--particularly for the odd ball things (A Winchester lawn rake, for example). But other hardware companies might be Wilkinson, Riverside, Bigelow & Dowes, Sears Roebuck, Monkey Ward, etc. There are active collectors for all of these, but their numbers are not great and the their collections are pretty mature, so the demand is fairly slight. On the other hand, there are the old local hardware companys (stores) that populated every city and town in the U.S. Many of these had vanity marked tools for sale, and the collection of their tools presents worlds of opportunities for youthful collectors to explore. One of my dearest collection instincts is find store-marked examples of hand saws marked by hardware stores operating in my local city of New Bedford, Mass. So far I've found about 20 hand saws marked by four different stores from the 1870s to the early 1900s. And it has been double the fun to go to the local libraries and research these stores, tracking down their histories, dates of business, the types of saws they had special marked (Disston, Peace, Simonds) and locations of the stores. I've even been able to contact the descendents of a couple of the store owners, and learn first hand about their businesses. To my simple mind this opens a collecting avenue that might appeal to the younger tool hounds in our community of collectors. The ground is untouched, the tools are relatively cheap (and locally abundant), and the means for research is local and accessible. Best, Sandy (in Cold Massachusetts) Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157572 ---- From: Marvin Paisner Date: 2006-02-27 10:40:14 Subject: Re: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Richard and Galoots, Richard is modestly downplaying the amount of work and money he and his family put into sending a large number ( how many was it Richard?) of this amazing book to the far reaches of Galootdom. And all these years later here I am once again sending a sincere thank you for your effort. Here from the label he placed inside the cover are Richard's own words from 4 January 1998: ------------------------------------------------ "Here it is... International Galoot co-operation brings you... 'THE KINGSHOTT SOURCE' The Meisterwerk that nearly bankrupted me... The book that made me a neanderthal. Read, learn, enjoy and lock up your wallets.... Richard Wilson" -------------------------------------------------- thanks again Richard, Marvin Paisner Kootenay Lake, BC Richard.Wilson@s... wrote: >>Well, as the sponsor of the first bulk buy of these, back in the last >>century,.....snip....... I found the >>whole thing cost me a (small) bit of money, but it's never been The Way Of >>The Porch to put personal gain before collective edification. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157573 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-02-27 13:47:00 Subject: Re: Taber woodie, questions and pictures I've got to come down with my Brimfield Buddy, Tony, on this one. He wrote: >Yepper. That, I'm afraid, is a home made'r. Some body added the fence and >depth stop from an old fillester, and possibly the side mount for the >fence came from the same plane to a skew rabbet plane That was my first thought on looking at the pics. Fences from moving filetsters are not hard to find, as are the brass depth stops. Putting a slip side on a skew rabbet and then screwing the fence into it doesn't look very stable to my eyes--especially for such a careful plane maker as John Taber. Living in the epicenter of the Taber plane world, I see dozens of his planes every year, including several moving filetsters, and I've never seen this configuration. But one never knows for sure. For a guy who was in business for over 50 years, and who made thousands upon thousands of planes, it seems odd that, to my knowledge, a catalogue or price list of his planes has not turned up. Until one does, we can only guess. Best, Sandy Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157574 ---- From: "Paul Ferenchak" Date: 2006-02-27 13:52:00 Subject: RE: OldTools Digest, Vol 6, Issue 43 Looks like the Kingshott books were snagged. Anyone know where I might get one? Paul Ferenchak Bull Hill Farm 5695 Bull Hill Rd., Lafayette, NY 13084 (315)498-5429 www.bullhillfarm.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 05:35:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Erdman Subject: [OldTools] Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott To: oldtools Message-ID: <20060227133530.10284.qmail@w...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus $3.25 shipping in the USA. Someone must have found a stack of the books. I got my copy for not much more than that, but shipping from England added a bit to the total. Maybe I'll have to get an extra copy. Or I could have kept quite, bought as many as I could afford, and sold them to galoots at a big profit. http://product.half.ebay.com/Making-Modifying-Woodworking-Tools_W0QQprZ21689 84QQtgZvidetailsQQitemZ12602856140 Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157575 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 10:48:08 Subject: Re: Pull or push. ? was (Re: hacksaw question) > descriptions say > that the "blades can be faced in four directions" (i.e., away from > the frame either > push or pull; or toward the inside of the frame either push or pull). Tom, I think that would be 8 directions. Teeth facing lt. - rt. - down from the frame (in the usual way) or up toward the frame on the square tangs which can be mounted any of 4 ways. Add pull stroke blade configuration and there are your 8 positions. yours, scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157576 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 11:20:14 Subject: Re: Collecting > I've noticed one thing at Spicer's Auctions. > The average age of the crowd is probably 55+ years. It might be slowing down now, but watch out for the next generation! It's been my experience that the mental ilness generally known as collecting, in whatever area, skips generations much more often that not. My grandparents collected, my parents would't be caught dead in an antique shop. Look what happened to me??? My sons would rather face a firing squad of drunken bohemians with 22 pistols, big clips of shells and dubious aim, .............or 7 pulpit pounding preachers in a small windowless room with no exit door, ............. than a smiling antique auctioneer grubbing up their life with musty old stuff. My grandchildren expect to paw through every single drawer, box, cupbord and shelf with great attention to detail, every visit. I've seen this time and again. Some of the hardware dealers of the last century specified and carried exqusite goods. These are currently the best deal for a poor boy like me (KK, HSB, Lakeside, Stilletto) and I never let one get away when I can snag em. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157577 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-02-27 13:15:16 Subject: Re: Inshave Caps/General Metalwork On Feb 27, 2006, at 10:09 AM, scott grandstaff wrote: (Hugely snipped) > > Speaking of which, how many steel punches n chisels does the average > Galoot keep, I wonder? I also wonder if I am the only one who owns "bullpins"? These are really big tapered punches used to line up holes in structural steel, but I have found a number of uses for them other than that. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157578 ---- From: Jerry Davis Date: 2006-02-27 16:22:55 Subject: Re: Need help with 2 Yankee screwdrivers "Steve K" wrote: > I've got 2 Yaknee screwdrivers, each with a different problem. The first is > a North Bros 31A, patented Dec 11.23. I cannot get bits to stay in the > chuck/holder. The little steel nub inside is present but seems worn down. > How can I take this thing apart and replace/fix the problem? It may just be stuck. I would use lots of penetrating oil and poke it with a nail or something to see if it will pop out. I don't have a clue about how to take the chuck apart. > The 2nd is a either a 130A or a 131A (can't remember right now). I've got a > #2 Robertson bit in there now and I can't get it out. The sleeve on the > chuck moves freely but the bit, she seems stuck real good. Advice? More penetrating oil and lots of patience. I've had a couple with stuck bits and wiggling, tugging and lubricating eventually freed them. > Suggestions? Oh yeah, are these supposed to be spring loaded and return to > the extended position? If not, which models do have that feature? The 30, 31 and 35 models do not have the return spring; models 130, 131 and 135 have the return spring. The A in the model number indicates it was made after about 1920 when Yankee made some internal parts stronger. > starting to use them. Man, how did I ever live without ratching > screwdrivers before? I love these things. Great stuff and another slippery They are hard to pass up. If it is a make or model I don't have, I can't resist. :-) A couple other observations: The el cheapo newer clear plastic handle variety is a good source of bits that fit the x35 and 133H. I find them in the used screwdriver boxes at the flea market, usually for $0.25. Stanley made bits and possibly Yankee, tell which model screwdriver they fit. Bits with part numbers 31xx fit the model 31, 30xx fits a model 30, etc. A possible no-brainer but I just noticed it recently... Jerry Griffin, GA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157579 ---- From: "Ken Meltsner" Date: 2006-02-27 15:42:53 Subject: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) hinge Just picked up a #18 block plane with the spiffy knuckle joint lever cap. Lever cap is in good user condition (very little plating left), but it's missing one of the hinge pins that supports the joint between the two cap pieces. The remaining pin looks like it was swaged on the outside, but I'm not sure how it was attached on the other end of the pin (the end nearest the center screw). Was it threaded on one end and then swaged to lock in place? Or was it flared/swaged on one end, inserted and then swaged. If I don't hear otherwise, I may just tap the inner piece and use a small pan-head screw for the pin. Or given the warnings at the Blood and Gore site, I'd be happy to trade it for a more recent knuckle cap if there's a desperate collector out there. Ken Meltsner -- Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but model train sets do a pretty good job as well -- 2/28/05, in a odd dream ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157580 ---- From: Marvin Paisner Date: 2006-02-27 14:01:22 Subject: Re: Inshave Handle Caps Jim & GGs The inshave handle style sounds very much like a drawknife I have which was manufactured by "Josiah Fowler Co. Ltd" of "St. John, N.B." ( that's how it's stamped Jim, not "Saint"). I also have a few bevel edge chisels by Fowler and I rate the quality of his steel as on a par with the best. Carefully clean and examine the tangs near where they bend for the handles and see if you can find a makers mark, maybe you have a Fowler. Mine were all found during my years on PEI. Looking at my tool I think if I had to redo the handles I would start by doing as Scott G. suggests and split the damaged wooden handles off, then I would see if there was a way to work the caps down away from the peened over tips without enlarging the hole in the metal cap. Even a sixteenth of an inch would be enough to let you grind or file off the peen without damaging the cap. If you could work the caps far enough down you might be able to hammer the peens back with a punch as has been suggested but I'm guessing the caps won't move very much without enlarging the hole. Anyhow, keep on the lookout for old edge tools with the Josiah Fowler mark, there must be a couple I missed ;^) Marv Paisner Kootenay Lake, BC Jim McVicar wrote: >I picked up a small, rusty inshave on the weekend, > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157581 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-02-27 18:43:20 Subject: Stanley #2 Lever Cap I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard to find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of months I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to try LN for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out if it will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you all know. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157582 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-27 18:14:41 Subject: Moulding plane Questions GG, As of the last two weeks I have started a head or wallet, first slide down this slope... As I currentky have no frame of reference, I am pondering how to go about meeting the goal of laying aside my routers in favor of moulding planes. Hence, I would like to hear from others about tactics... Do you follow any pattern in what to aquire (besides what you find)? Such as breaking profiles down into the various elements and then pursue the required shapes? Is there any such thing as a "core" group of planes that are needed in order to create traditionally shaped profiles. I should have aquired some reference marerial and answered these types of questions before starting to buy. But I wasn't planing to start on moulders for awhile... and I do have a Sandusky reprint on the way. Speaking of reference, what is a good primer, for using moulders? I'll get into the makers etc. later, right now I'm more interested in the basic use and care. Preferably an attainable book, not some classic thats gonna cost me a fortune.... TIA...on or off list, though I think this would make an interesting discussion... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157583 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-02-27 16:53:23 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions On 27 Feb 2006 at 18:14, roygriggs@v... wrote: > As I currentky have no frame of reference, I am pondering how to go > about meeting the goal of laying aside my routers in favor of > moulding planes. Hence, I would like to hear from others about > tactics... Hey guys, hooked us another one... > > Do you follow any pattern in what to aquire (besides what you find)? > Such as breaking profiles down into the various elements and then > pursue the required shapes? Is there any such thing as a "core" group > of planes that are needed in order to create traditionally shaped > profiles. As has been demonstrated a time or two by some of us, you can make most curves that you want using a set of hollows and rounds. It helps if you have something to "rough in" the pattern as a series of fillets or rectangular cuts, then use the H & R planes to make the curves. So that's a good start, but clearly it's easier to make an ogee with an ogee plane. Just letting you know it can be done without one if you are patient and creative. As with everything else, I'm a believer in "buy what you need to build what you want" (or maybe what she wants) rather than believing in some definition of an initial load-out. Everything depends on what you build. I certainly have H & R planes in sizes that are bigger than I would ever need, but sometimes you just get a heckofa deal. I'd go slow and be project- driven here. A set of side beads is a handy thing to have if you like to make beads along the edge of a board. Just remember that they are specialized planes and can't do other things than what they were designed for. This is the nature of molding planes, and why amusing things like the Stanley 55 combo plane were invented. Other useful variations of beading planes include center beads, torus beads, and astragals. You might pick one size like 3/8 inch and see if that fits your taste. You could probably go a long time without using a 3/4 inch beading plane unless you're doing architectural molding. More complex curves are fine things to have, but it's really hard to predict what you will need until you need it. So if you have a friend with a couple of hundred molding planes to sell, you can win the lottery and buy them all so you'll have a better shot at finding the plane you need in your shop, or else you can just acquire them as each project demands. Remember that these things are often kits, even more so than metal planes. I wouldn't go out and buy 50 at a time because you will soon be spending all your time refurbishing the planes. Not to say that you don't need 50 molding planes. I know I do. Don't forget that there are things usually classed as molding planes due to size and design, although some (e.g., Mike Dunbar) argue that they are really in a different class. I use tongue and groove pairs a lot, and have them in different sizes. Dado planes are good if you, well, like to make dadoes. You will of course, need some rabbet planes around. I'd just go with skew rabbets, as they can work cross-grain as well as with the grain. And a nice moving fillester is an enhancement on the skew rabbet theme, adding a fence and depth stop. > > I should have aquired some reference marerial and answered these > types of questions before starting to buy. But I wasn't planing to > start on moulders for awhile... and I do have a Sandusky reprint on > the way. Catalogs are very useful to get an idea of what was available. I'd get half a dozen different ones so you can answer questions when I'm too busy or on vacation :-). Just remember Ken's catalog rule: you have to own at least one tool from every catalog you own. Extra credit if you have one of everything, I suppose. That could take a while... > > Speaking of reference, what is a good primer, for using moulders? > I'll get into the makers etc. later, right now I'm more interested in > the basic use and care. Preferably an attainable book, not some > classic thats gonna cost me a fortune.... As far as care goes, I'd grab a copy of Dunbar's book: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_dun_2.htm Using a molding plane is pretty intuitive, but maybe I've been doing it too long. There are certainly things to watch out for, like gaping mouths, soles that aren't straight, irons that don't really belong with the plane you're thinking about buying, etc. Stick to dealers you know, and dealers that know what they are doing and much of this can be avoided. Or you can learn by doing and keep the woodstove going with your mistakes. I've bought a few dogs in my time, some of which I have learned to put right (a useful skill) and others I just chalked up to the acquisition of knowledge as to what not to do next time. Happily not too many. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157584 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-02-27 19:00:28 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Bill, I just pulled the L-N lever cap off my L-N No. 2 plane and tried it on a low knob Stanley No. 2. They are almost exactly the same size, except that the L-N is not quite as thick. Looks to me like it would work fine, unless the later No. 2 Stanleys were different. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rittner" To: Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:43 PM Subject: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap >I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard >to > find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of > months > I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to > try LN > for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out > if it > will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you > all > know. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157585 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-02-27 20:06:02 Subject: RE: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Bill, Please do let us know as I too have been looking for one for the past, oh, 10 years now. Guess I'm a cheapskate. Brian Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Bill Rittner > To: > Date: 2/27/2006 6:47:05 PM > Subject: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap > > I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard to > find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of months > I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to try LN > for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out if it > will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you all > know. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157586 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-02-27 20:52:43 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Thanks, Guess I'll be calling LN tomorrow. I've got several other #2s I sit around for, well, collectibles but the one I need the cap for is the one I inherited from my Grandfather. He used it to plane doors with. He was a small man in size not like his kids or grandkids. We all weighed in over 200 by the time we were in our late 30's. Anyway, the lever cap will allow me to set this one on the desk at work. I had thought about taking a cap off of one of the others but it didn't make since. I knew I'd find one sometime. I might go ahead and order a blade to go with it just so I can try to use it on occasion being my grandfather's, I think he would've appreciated it. Thanks, Brian Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Frank Sronce > To: > Date: 2/27/2006 8:00:21 PM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap > > Bill, > > I just pulled the L-N lever cap off my L-N No. 2 plane and tried it on a > low knob Stanley No. 2. They are almost exactly the same size, except > that the L-N is not quite as thick. Looks to me like it would work > fine, unless the later No. 2 Stanleys were different. > > Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Rittner" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:43 PM > Subject: [OldTools] Stanley #2 Lever Cap > > > >I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard > >to > > find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of > > months > > I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to > > try LN > > for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out > > if it > > will fit my Stanley #2. Will check at my local Woodcraft and let you > > all > > know. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157587 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-02-27 21:57:20 Subject: Hand Saw Blade Cleaning Tutorial Fellow Galoots Some time back I posted an article on Hand Saw Handle Cleaning and Refinishing on Wiktors web sites. I received quite a lot of good responses. I thought it only appropriate to follow up with cleaning the other end of the saw, the blade. Hand Saw Blade Cleaning Tutorial I hope you will check it out at www.oldtoolsshop.com/inTheShop/reTools/sawBlade/index.asp Bob Sturgeon in Kentuckiana ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157588 ---- From: "Ed O'Riordan" Date: 2006-02-27 21:59:24 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap A No. 3 lever cap is about 1 3/4 inches wide a No. 2 is about 1 5/8 inches wide. If you are really cheap, you can grind around 1/16th of an inch of each side of a No. 3 lever cap. I just checked and it appears that there is enough meat to allow it. The sides may be thin, but the contact point is at the front. I would imagine a No. 3 lever cap would be less than $25. It wouldn't be stock, but might look more factory than a LN if you work carefully. Something to think about. Ed O' >> I have been looking for one of these for some time now. Thay are hard >> to >> find if you are chea.....errr..frugal like me. In the last couple of > months >> I have seen prices go from $65 to $180, down to $102. So I decided to >> try > LN >> for one. I got the price today. $25 in stock. Now I need to find out >> if it ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157589 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-02-27 21:18:28 Subject: flea mkt find >>>>> "roygriggs" == roygriggs writes: roygriggs> GG, Got another run a my flea dealer and the collection roygriggs> he bought, makes tool hunting easy...I'm broke by the roygriggs> time I leave his booth, so it's one stop and a little roygriggs> window shoping and then go home. roygriggs> http://tinyurl.com/zp6no roygriggs> Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... roygriggs> www.shavingsandsawdust.com roygriggs> -------------------------------------------------------- SWMBO took one look at the pictures and forbade me from going to fleas. Something about having a rather high feed bill this winter and needing to finish her kitchen. Nice find though. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157590 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-27 21:21:20 Subject: Re: Moulding Plane Questions GG, Thank you Ken, for the advice. you said... So if you have a friend with a couple of hundred molding planes to sell, Which happens to be my problem, but I can't afford all of them and am trying to figure how best to plunder the collection. So far I've gone mainly on condition, but with an eye on usefulness, smaller beaders, hollows and rounds, a couple complex moulders and a skew or two... As long as I don't have to have a catalog for each maker, I can live with Ken's catalog rule...Got Sandusky taken care of. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157591 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-27 20:11:21 Subject: Re: flea mkt find >SWMBO took one look at the pictures > Whattayoukidding me? Were you always suicidal? There is help available for this burning need to confess, you know yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157592 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-28 00:13:18 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Alan DuBoff wrote: > Since it's not just about stockpiling tools for me, Heh, heh. One man's 'stockpile' is another man's 'collection'. To SWMBO they are the 'pile o' tools' in your shop. Do you have more than two small backsaws, say 8 to 10"? None of the saws I showed were duplicates, BTW. Different lengths, medallions, models, etc.. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Got A Monkey On My Back That Taps Me On The Head Whenever It Sees A Disston The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157593 ---- From: "Micheal J. Mc Evoy" Date: 2006-02-27 23:29:23 Subject: Re: flea mkt find >>>>> "scott" == scott grandstaff writes: >> SWMBO took one look at the pictures >> scott> Whattayoukidding me? Were you always suicidal? There is scott> help available for this burning need to confess, you know scott> yours, Scott scott> *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** scott> Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ Actually, Cait (SWMBO) really likes and appreciates the tools that I have acquired, it's the budget thing. She would actually like it if I could turn the "hobby" and woodworking that I do around the farm into a "job", so I don't have to drive to Austin (100 miles round trip - minimum) to work. Cait also worked for Woodhall, a subsidiary of McGee Frame Company. So she likes wood working as well. She also appreciates the theraputic action of spending time in my shop gives me. Micheal -- Micheal McEvoy St Brigid's Gate Farm chewy@S...BrigidsGateFarm.com Mahomet, Texas Micah4 Consulting -- Appropriate Technology for Sustainable Community "And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157594 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-02-27 22:10:23 Subject: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? On Monday 27 February 2006 09:13 pm, Tom Price wrote: > Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Since it's not just about stockpiling tools for me, > > Heh, heh. One man's 'stockpile' is another man's 'collection'. To SWMBO > they are the 'pile o' tools' in your shop. Do you have more than two > small backsaws, say 8 to 10"? Oh sure, I have *mostly* 8"-10" saws. They're cheap to me, it doesn't matter. That's the one type of tool I collect, and mostly joinery saws. I don't own any large panel saws, or handsaws. I primarily collect backsaws. Some are investments, some are tools, some are just because...I don't need a reason to have them.;-) The reason Disston saws don't excite me much is that they're so common, with the exception of the rare ones, I have enough multiples. I want more makers, and finding a Diston split-nut joiners saw for $20 on ebay gives me the same thrill you might get at a flea spending $5-$10. This is a tool that is about 150 years old, and solid, which is rare. This is a great tool. > None of the saws I showed were duplicates, BTW. Different lengths, > medallions, models, etc.. Does this make you a collector or other?;-) You probably have more saws than me. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157595 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-02-28 02:33:51 Subject: Finished Sumpin' Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3582 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3583 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3584 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3585 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3586 Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157596 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-02-28 20:03:25 Subject: Re: Finished Sumpin' Chuck, Mmmm.......v-e-r-r-r-y nice indeedy !!!!! Brilliant!!! Peter B, Australia Chuck Myers wrote: > >Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I >know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157597 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-02-28 10:34:00 Subject: Re: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by (blushing) Marvin dredges up some long forgotten past. . >from the label he placed inside the cover are Richard's own words from >4 January 1998: >------------------------------------------------ >"Here it is... International Galoot co-operation brings you... >'THE KINGSHOTT SOURCE' >The Meisterwerk that nearly bankrupted me... The book that made me a >neanderthal. Read, learn, enjoy and lock up your wallets.... Let me see now, the book was in the library and I borrowed it. Then I needed my own copy. Then I needed some metalworking kit, so I had to buy a lathe ( to make adjusters ) I needed some metal, so a trip to AJ Reeves followed. ( Dunno if they have a web presence, but if they still exist, it's an amazing place ) Naturally, you're going to need some few files. And an anvil for better peening. Milling open the mouth would be less likely to suffer an accidental slip of the hacksaw or file, so a couple of milling cutters, and a compound angle vice will have to do, with a bench drill as the power source. If I see a way of slipping a milling machine in the back door I'll take it. Still working towards the forge for making the screwdrivers. . . Yep, I reckon that book cost me the best part of a thousand pounds ( About 15-1600 dollars back then Paddy ) - and still not done. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot, the poorer for reading Kingshott. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157598 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-02-28 12:42:39 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Jim Erdman wrote: > I just discovered ... "Making & Modifying > Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott I have to say... Whilst this book may have set many people on the road to altering tools there are "handier" simple tools in Robert Wearing's "Making Woodworking Aids and Devices". Further, I have no argument that Kingshott's book was the great original of making yer' own infill... But in subsequent years the wonders of the 'net have grown. I would contend there is better and easier to use reference material for infill planes on the web than in Kingshott's book. In short, I think it is now more of a historical note than a "live" reference. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157599 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-02-28 08:11:24 Subject: Making and Modifying Woodworking Machines galoots, Half.com still has the Jim Kingshott book. Type his name in at the "author" box and it will bring the book up. I got mine! Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157600 ---- From: Dan Miller Date: 2006-02-28 08:04:42 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions Hi Roy, Ken answered your questions very well, just thought I'd add my 2 cents... At 07:14 PM 2/27/2006, Roy wrote: > Do you follow any pattern in what to aquire (besides what you find)? >Such as breaking profiles down into the various elements and then pursue >the required shapes? Is there any such thing as a "core" group of planes >that are needed in order to create traditionally shaped profiles. A lot depends on what you are doing - are you making moldings for furniture, architectural work, or both? If just furniture, look for your profiles in the smaller sizes, considering the scale of your projects and the dimensions of your stock. Ken's comments on H&Rs and sidebeads are right on. It's easy and cheap to assemble a set of side beads, they are a lot of fun, easy to learn on, and its amazing how much such a simple profile can dress things up. The other thing to consider is style - i.e. are Roman or Grecian profiles more appropriate for your work, are you doing Shaker style, etc... In the long run you'll probably end up with lots of planes, theres lots of profiles, and lots of sizes of each. Right now I'm doing lots of house restoration, so I have acquired several profiles that match original trim pieces, various sash planes to repair and reproduce window sash, the side beads are getting a great work out and so on. But I'm always on the lookout for interesting planes, especially of sizes scaled for the furniture work I do. > I should have aquired some reference marerial and answered these types of >questions before starting to buy. But I wasn't planing to start on >moulders for awhile... and I do have a Sandusky reprint on the way. You can get a break on the price by buying the catalog reprint bundle from Astragal Press. > Speaking of reference, what is a good primer, for using moulders? Dunbar's book is right on, and John Whelan's "The Wooden Plane: Its History Form and Function" (http://www.astragalpress.com/wooden_plane.htm) is essential, nay Required, reading. Now you have to learn to use a sticking board. Cheers, Dan ______________________ Daniel Miller Dragonfly Canoe Works North Greenbush, NY http://dragonflycanoe.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157601 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-02-28 08:25:14 Subject: RE: Taber woodie, questions and pictures I have two Taber moving fillisters, and I took a good look at them last night. What immediately struck me was that there are three screws holding the side abutment in both Mike Wenzloff's plane and mine, while Mike Hamilton's plane has four screws to hold it on. My planes have nice blending of the different pieces of wood on both of them also. Being a Taber collector, I also have five or more Taber rabbits and they bear a striking resemblance to the core of the plane in question. I would have to lean toward the plane in question being modified by someone other than Taber, as I don't think that the fit and finish would have been up to the buyers standards of the time. P.S. Latest project? A relief carving of the battle standard Constantine used in his military conquests, "EL TOUTO NIKA". There truly is little separating a hobby and obsession. :^) Samuel L. Peterson Associate Director, MU Grants & Contracts Manager, UM Sponsored Programs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157602 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-02-28 10:23:13 Subject: Re: Finished Sumpin' Chuck Myers wrote: > >Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I >know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: > > > >Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is > > > > > Very nice! What finish did you use? Uh, the driveby on the planes was well done too. :) Tim Enjoying the overnight dusting of snow in nippy NJ. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157603 ---- From: Bill Ghio Date: 2006-02-28 10:30:46 Subject: FS: Studley Tool Chest Poster Redecorating and the framed - and famed - Studley tool chest poster has gotta go. I have no idea what this would do on the 'bay, but would rather see it go here. So here's the deal: $80.00 including shipping w/in the Continental US (anywhere else, actual shipping cost over $15.00). If you think my asking is too high, make me a contingent offer. See pics here: http://photobucket.com/albums/y225/bghio/ Bill On Maryland's Eastern Shore ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157604 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-02-28 09:37:09 Subject: Gristmill article, 1996 Hi all, I sent an email to the folks at the Gristmill last week (gristmill@m...) to check on availability of a back issue or copy of an article from a way's back. It looks as if the email bounced after being forwarded to heckel@a... (Dave Heckel, I'm guessing?). Does anyone have current contact info for the Gristmill editor, or does anyone have a September, 1996 issue they'd be willing to sell or copy? I'm looking for the O. Ramsey article on Atkins, "The Rise of the E. C. Atkins Saw Empire in Indianapolis." Thanks, Norm Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157605 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-02-28 08:54:22 Subject: Re: Stanley #2 Lever Cap Waiting years for a lever cap? I waited, oh surely some days. Not years though. A cut n ground ordinary pattern lever cap in plate steel isn't any huge project. I even made a little lift lever like a regular one. Little bit o torch, drill, grinder, hacksaw, file. I pinned on a slip of old hacksaw blade with the teeth ground off for the little spring on the back. Just lay it out and then watch you don't cut too much with the torch to start off with or you'll end up slightly undersized after finishing, is my best advice. Of course it's not "original Stanley" if that matters much to you. I know it does to some. I had a couple other #2's I sold off to raise money for one thing and another. They were ordinary production models. The one I kept, and is my granddaughter's favorite, has a hang hole in the bed and replacement wood, blade n lever cap. Zapped, rejappaned, fettled up. Mine, except Nikole considers it hers. She doesn't seem to mind it as it fit her hands well, seen here when she was only 7, and cuts real easy. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/nik2.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/nik5.jpg yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157606 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-02-28 13:33:24 Subject: Lost an address/David Lucier David, Please ping me off-line. Paul in Normal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157607 ---- From: "S. Micah Salb" Date: 2006-02-28 15:00:33 Subject: Stair newell cap Guys, I have two newell posts in my home which I have built but which remain unfinished. I still need to make caps for them. I am envisioning a flat top with molded edges coming in at about a 45-degree angle (a sort-of Craftsman style). I am working with walnut (which is what we used for the railing). Here's my question: Without using an electric router to mold the edges, I would have to make molding and apply it to the cap. Well, that's easy enough. But then the top will show the grain with the molding attached, which seems somewhat inelegant (no?). I could apply some walnut veneer on top of it all, but I'm not sure I like that idea, either (both because I'd rather avoid using veneer, though I have it here to use, and because the thickness of the veneer will probably show on edge). Any thoughts? -Micah (Yes, yes, long forgotten, I know, but we march on in obscurity, laboring more for Hannah Banana -- now 7 months old -- than for myself. But then, again, I feel incredibly selfish laboring for Hannah, as any father knows....) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157608 ---- From: Kurt W Jensen Date: 2006-02-28 12:42:01 Subject: The clogging knife is here! So I got my clogging knife from the UPS guy just now and it looks great! It's basicly a 20" bar with a scissor edge, a handle, and a eyebolt welded on the bottom. See the great ascii art. ____________________________ eyebolt O-_______________________----- handle edge It's a different approach from the pics I later found and I can't wait till I can sit down & can use it. I have a real heavy board that I lugged back from Dominica a few years back that I'll use as a base and once I get it set up I'll be asking someone how to post pics of it in use. Kurt in Princeton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157609 ---- From: "Frank Filippone" Date: 2006-02-28 13:14:58 Subject: RE: Stanley #2 Lever Cap A lefty! Frank Filippone red735i@e... Mine, except Nikole considers it hers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157610 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-02-28 15:13:50 Subject: Re: Gristmill article, 1996 Norm, The latest issue of The Gristmill still lists Dave as the editor. They give a mailing address for him but no email address. The website (www.mwtca.org) lists admin@m... as one email for the association. It still lists gristmill@m... as the email address for the editor. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Wood" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:37 AM Subject: [OldTools] Gristmill article, 1996 > Hi all, > > I sent an email to the folks at the Gristmill last week > (gristmill@m...) to check on availability of a back issue > or copy of an article from a way's back. It looks as if the email > bounced after being forwarded to heckel@a... (Dave > Heckel, I'm guessing?). > > Does anyone have current contact info for the Gristmill > editor, or does anyone have a September, 1996 issue > they'd be willing to sell or copy? I'm looking for the > O. Ramsey article on Atkins, "The Rise of the E. C. Atkins > Saw Empire in Indianapolis." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157611 ---- From: "John" Date: 2006-03-01 08:38:42 Subject: Re: Flux to heat treat? Hi Spike If its hardening you are wanting then covering the item with anything can interfere with the heat transfer at quench and possibly not achieve the required hardness. >From my experience when hardening, the big problem is getting the part to the required temperature and ensuring that it is properly 'soaked', that is heated right thru. Depending on the steel the temperature range between too cool and too hot can be as narrow as 15 or 20 degrees C. In my opinion its when you overheat the steel or keep it heated for tool long that you run the biggest risk of carbon 'seduction'. So for critical parts the only sure way is a furnace with temperature control. Again my experience is with small parts (less than 30cm long) and heat treatment for hardening. If you are doing something different then the above may info be worth nothing to you. Good luck Cheers John B Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spike" To: "oldTools" Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: [OldTools] Flux to heat treat? > What I am gleaning is that the biggest problem with DIY heat > treating is carbon getting seduced by O2. This makes me wonder if the > casting flux we use for non-ferrous metals might be of use. By > adjusting the ratio of borax to boric acid one can adjust the > melting, and thereby the active point, of the flux, which forms a > glass like coating on the work piece. This would also act as a > temperature indicator. The fused flux/glass could then be picked off > with citric acid. > > _____________ > > Spike Cornelius > PDX - Crazy for Shavings > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157612 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-02-28 13:53:57 Subject: Re: Stair newell cap You glue up 4 pieces, then cut the 4 bevels, then cut to length. The grain will all radiate out from center. On Feb 28, 2006, at 12:00 PM, S. Micah Salb wrote: > Guys, > > I have two newell posts in my home which I have built but which remain > unfinished. I still need to make caps for them. I am envisioning a > flat top with molded edges coming in at about a 45-degree angle (a > sort-of Craftsman style). I am working with walnut (which is what we > used for the railing). > > Here's my question: Without using an electric router to mold the > edges, I would have to make molding and apply it to the cap. Well, > that's easy enough. But then the top will show the grain with the > molding attached, which seems somewhat inelegant (no?). I could apply > some walnut veneer on top of it all, but I'm not sure I like that > idea, either (both because I'd rather avoid using veneer, though I > have it here to use, and because the thickness of the veneer will > probably show on edge). > > Any thoughts? > > -Micah > (Yes, yes, long forgotten, I know, but we march on in obscurity, > laboring more for Hannah Banana -- now 7 months old -- than for > myself. But then, again, I feel incredibly selfish laboring for > Hannah, as any father knows....) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157613 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-28 15:56:26 Subject: Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the Month - March 2006. In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools was selected. I am back to work.... Thanks for your help, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157614 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-02-28 17:51:12 Subject: SWMBO's Present Yesterday I messed up the little drawer on SWMBO's Valentines Present for the 7th time. I don't really know, I finally stopped counting. It was hard to work yesterday with the GIT dropping table legs down the steps at me. Finally today I decided to just dovetail some poplar together for it. Well the first one came out z shaped cause I put the tails on backwards on one side so finally I got one to work. They were even snug. Now to make a new drawer front. Maybe tomorrow. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157615 ---- From: Eddie Sirotich Date: 2006-02-28 23:20:29 Subject: Re: Toolmaker of the Month Esteemed Galoots, Thank you very much for the recognition! I always enjoy making saws for fellow Galoots (here is where I started) and I'll keep on doing that. This seems to be my attention getting month as some of you probably noticed the result of the article in the current (April) issue of Fine Woodworking. Thanks again, Eddie Sirotich Adria Toolworks Inc. - High Quality Dovetail and Tenon saws http://www.AdriaTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > Hello All, > > The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the Month - March 2006. > > In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools was selected. > > I am back to work.... > > Thanks for your help, > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157616 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-02-28 23:33:24 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions Hi Roy, Good question and one I've been thinking about. Short answer: Side beads first followed by profiles that interest you. Thumbnails, OG, and quarter rounds are pretty common. Longer answer: this depends on what you want to do. Like Dan said, if you are doing architectural millwork you need bigger profiles. Bigger profiles = bigger dollars. If you are working on furniture, then the profiles are smaller. Ken mentioned H/Rs and I agree with him but it could be a while before you assemble a "set" if you are doing them one/two at a time. But 6 H/Rs could be all you need in sizes 6, 8, and 10 for example. You start getting into really complex and interesting shapes depending on the style of furniture you might want to build. Dunbar and Hack both comment on this in their books but I wish it was a better discussion. Mixing Roman and Greek profiles might not be harmonious on the same piece. But what do I know? SWMBO has the taste in this partnership. Question. Is there any reference book, spoken word, rule of thumb, any scrap of information available that talks about profiles appropriate to a period? I like Federal and Chippendale but don't know if my moulders are appropriate. How does a galoot find out? Very Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157617 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-02-28 23:39:19 Subject: Sash Making Planes GGs, The thread on moulding planes got me thinking about some future projects I will tackle in the next few years. One of these pipe dreams is a petite secretary a la Chippendale. Or a roughed-up, maybe mugged in a back alley kinda Chippendale depending no the skill level then. This secretary will have glass doors with divided lites and I'm not sure if you use a sash plane for making these doors or something else. With glass in any door frame on a period piece, you usually get a nice detail in the rail/stile. Is this made by a special type of sash plane or something else? Or have I gone batty? Very Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157618 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-01 00:10:31 Subject: Re: Gristmill article, 1996 The article you are looking for also appears in the book: The Best of the Gristmill 1974-1999. This book was sent to all members (I do believe). The article: The Rise of the E.C.Atkins Saw Empire in Indiana was attributed to Ken Wasson. -Wayne Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157619 ---- From: Tom Price Date: 2006-02-28 19:27:54 Subject: Re: Finished Sumpin' Chuck Myers wrote: > > Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I > know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: > > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > > > Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is Mini? In what way? Yeah, nice driveby on those Shelves O' Planes. **************************** Tom Price (tomprice03@g...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html AIM Screenname = galootsprogress ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157620 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-02-28 16:47:51 Subject: bagged a brace in the *bay wilderness. http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29392-2357-0? uid=360058&site=0&ver=EOIBSA080805&lk=ItemDescriptionANDimage&Item=62562 84382 it's a 6" keen kutter. to me, it looks a lot like a pexto 7000 series, which came in 6" sweep. any other suggestions as to origin? who else made kk braces besides (thanks, sandy!) ps&w? best, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157621 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-28 18:15:53 Subject: English Saws and Steel Hello All, For those who are interested in English saws and the steel they were made of, I posted an article from TATHS Newsletter. http://www.wkfinetools.com/history/England/index.asp Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157622 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-02-28 20:21:15 Subject: Two Dollah Table Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 saws, then I want to post a bench full of <$2 tools. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg Yep, Ken Greenberg, I paid less than $2 for that mint in the box Millers Falls No. 1950 Buck Rogers brace. Certainly, Bugbear, that is an ebony mallet. That sure is a D-12 panel saw, Richard. Hey, Todd, there's that $1 brass backed English tenon saw from the 1800s. Yes, Esquire Taggart, that is a lovely Richardson dovetail saw. No, Wicktor, that is not all of them, I got tons more of those Everlasting and Whitherby chisels in the drawer for less than $2. Correct, Millrat, never paid more than a buck for sharp files and rasps, including the small patternmaker's type. Sorry, Scott, didn't have time to round up all the clamps. It is true, Chris, that those two indexes were the only ones that cost a buck. Regards, Steve - Just say, can't wait to see what the rest of you Galoots post as a followup, because I know a lot of you are pillaging garage sales, auctions and fleamarkets to get those cheap tools in the wild ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157623 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-02-28 20:36:54 Subject: RE: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? Hmmm... I scored my #2 (Don't recollect the type right now) at an anteek maul for $85. Does that count as "the wild"? ;-) ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart - I wuz gonna sell it on that there e-Bay thing, but once I got it home and wiped the dust off'n it, it were just too purty, so I hadda keep it. ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of gary may > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:46 PM > To: roygriggs@v...; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:Is eBay a four-letter word? > > > --- roygriggs@v... wrote: > > > GG, > > E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been > > un-able to find in any other venue that I could afford. > > Well said, Sir--- > I lurked, sniped and glommed a type 4 #2 (tiny yet useful > Stanley smoothing plane, Jeff, with about 150 years of use) > in very decent user shape for less than $300 on the > 'bay---IIRC---might have been closer to $200---in any case > it's the most I ever spent on a handtool > and the biggest bargain too. Right after I won the "auction" > Patrick Leach pinged me to offer a somewhat nicer type 4 #2 > for about three times the price (which I had expected to > pay---someday) and I had to say "Thanks ever so much for > keeping me in mind but I just bought one cheap off a blind widda." > Patrick (if you're reading) I really do appreciate the > 'heads up' and would've jumped at your price. > And o'course, you gotta tap the iron from side to side, no > lateral adjuster to do it backwards for you. > best to you and all galoots; gAM in Seattle > > > > > > ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. > Robert A Heinlein > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157624 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-02-28 20:39:07 Subject: RE: Is eBay a four-letter word? Daddy's got a saw problem... ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > > Well, yeah, buying 'rusty' old tools that someone doesn't > know the value > of is pretty much the point of the whole experience, isn't it?. Like > these 'rusty' old handsaws: > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_handsaws.jpg > > > Here's a shot of a sampling of the 'rusty' old backsaws. > Nothing over $6 > in the pile (averages out to <$4). One Geo. Bishop, one > Atkins and the > rest Disstons. > http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/tool_pics/flea_backsaws.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157625 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-02-28 18:47:38 Subject: RE: Two Dollah Table OK Steve, Start packing all this stuff, my address is below... You have other, more important things to do then play with the old junk. Start with Witherby.... Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Reynolds > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:21 PM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Two Dollah Table > > Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 > saws, then I want to post a bench full of <$2 tools. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg > > Yep, Ken Greenberg, I paid less than $2 for that mint > in the box Millers Falls No. 1950 Buck Rogers brace. > > Certainly, Bugbear, that is an ebony mallet. > > That sure is a D-12 panel saw, Richard. > > Hey, Todd, there's that $1 brass backed English tenon > saw from the 1800s. > > Yes, Esquire Taggart, that is a lovely Richardson dovetail saw. > > No, Wicktor, that is not all of them, I got tons more > of those Everlasting and Whitherby chisels in the drawer for > less than $2. > > Correct, Millrat, never paid more than a buck for sharp > files and rasps, including the small patternmaker's type. > > Sorry, Scott, didn't have time to round up all the clamps. > > It is true, Chris, that those two indexes were the only > ones that cost a buck. > > > > > > Regards, > Steve - Just say, can't wait to see what the rest of you > Galoots post as a followup, because I know a lot of you are > pillaging garage sales, auctions and fleamarkets to get those > cheap tools in the wild > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157626 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-02-28 21:43:19 Subject: re: Making and Modifying Woodworking Machines Phil E offered: Half.com still has the Jim Kingshott book... ABE had the same listing and yesterday I ordered it. Today I got the temporarily out of stock message. They claim they will be able to ship in 'no more than' 60 days. Another snap purchase put on hold..... Regards, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157627 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-02-28 22:00:42 Subject: RE: Two Dollah Table OK Everyone!! All together now!! Steve: You ssuuuuu ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Reynolds > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:21 PM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Two Dollah Table > > > Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 > saws, then I want > to post a bench full of <$2 tools. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg > > Yep, Ken Greenberg, I paid less than $2 for that mint > in the box > Millers Falls No. 1950 Buck Rogers brace. > > Certainly, Bugbear, that is an ebony mallet. > > That sure is a D-12 panel saw, Richard. > > Hey, Todd, there's that $1 brass backed English tenon > saw from the > 1800s. > > Yes, Esquire Taggart, that is a lovely Richardson dovetail saw. > > No, Wicktor, that is not all of them, I got tons more of those > Everlasting and Whitherby chisels in the drawer for less than $2. > > Correct, Millrat, never paid more than a buck for sharp > files and > rasps, including the small patternmaker's type. > > Sorry, Scott, didn't have time to round up all the clamps. > > It is true, Chris, that those two indexes were the only > ones that > cost a buck. > > > > > > Regards, > Steve - Just say, can't wait to see what the rest of you Galoots post > as a followup, because I know a lot of you are pillaging > garage sales, > auctions and fleamarkets to get those cheap tools in the wild > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157628 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-02-28 21:46:58 Subject: Re: Re: Is eBay a four-letter word? I think it's hit and miss. I often don't see any deals on an item I'm looking for. Buy occasionally you get lucky. I got two antique carpeter saws for < $15 shipped. I do need to probably do some restoration on them but it will be a good learning experience. I've had no luck finding a deal on a planer. Wendy On Tuesday 28 February 2006 08:36 pm, Bill Taggart wrote: > Hmmm... > > I scored my #2 (Don't recollect the type right now) at an anteek maul for > $85. > > Does that count as "the wild"? ;-) > > ----------------------------------------- > Bill Taggart > - I wuz gonna sell it on that there e-Bay thing, but once I got it home and > wiped the dust off'n it, it were just too purty, so I hadda keep it. > ----------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of gary may > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:46 PM > > To: roygriggs@v...; oldtools@r... > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re:Is eBay a four-letter word? > > > > --- roygriggs@v... wrote: > > > GG, > > > E-Bay has very simply allowed me to find tools that I have been > > > un-able to find in any other venue that I could afford. > > > > Well said, Sir--- > > I lurked, sniped and glommed a type 4 #2 (tiny yet useful > > Stanley smoothing plane, Jeff, with about 150 years of use) > > in very decent user shape for less than $300 on the > > 'bay---IIRC---might have been closer to $200---in any case > > it's the most I ever spent on a handtool > > and the biggest bargain too. Right after I won the "auction" > > Patrick Leach pinged me to offer a somewhat nicer type 4 #2 > > for about three times the price (which I had expected to > > pay---someday) and I had to say "Thanks ever so much for > > keeping me in mind but I just bought one cheap off a blind widda." > > Patrick (if you're reading) I really do appreciate the > > 'heads up' and would've jumped at your price. > > And o'course, you gotta tap the iron from side to side, no > > lateral adjuster to do it backwards for you. > > best to you and all galoots; gAM in Seattle > > > > > > > > > > > > ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. > > Robert A Heinlein > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > > history, usage, value, location, availability, > > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > > especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > > > OldTools archive: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157629 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-02-28 22:13:58 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table Hi, Steve and all I have a two dollah table too --- bought it about 1960 from an old lady who said that her father bought it when she was a little girl and told her then that it was an antique. It was a mess with many thick layers of old paint. When I got it stripped. it was all solid cherry with a top of wide boards and nicely turned legs. It has been our kitchen table ever since. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157630 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-02-28 19:18:42 Subject: RE: Finished Sumpin' Chuck - very nice. Congratulations! Lew Soloway also, in So Cal, but no longer rainy (I hope) -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Myers [mailto:otl@I...ProcessSolutions.com] Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:34 PM To: 'Oldtools' Subject: [OldTools] Finished Sumpin' Well, I don't know if I did, really. Some things are just never done. I know this would be a "mini" for a lot of you, but thought I'd share anyhow: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3582 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3583 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3584 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3585 http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3586 Chuck, in rainy So. Cal., a long way from where this project is ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157631 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-02-28 21:28:11 Subject: Re: Is EBay a four letter word? GG, At this point I humbly bow my head, and cry...I haven't even found any good deals, yet....but wait.. Is this like the hardware store $2 table, I can buy anthing on the table for $2..... Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157632 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-02-28 22:30:22 Subject: Re: A.J.Wilkinson Hi, Muellers and others A. J. Wilkinson was a wonderful hardware store on lower Washington St.in Boston. In the 1940's and '50's I looked for excuses to go there. It was a vast, rambling place, including a basement that few customers ever saw. Down there was the place for raw materials like brass tubing and tool steel. I think that my last purchase was about 1970 --- tung oil. Earlier it was the place for twist drills in sizes smaller than 60, or a left-handed tap. They also comissioned tools to be made and sold under their name. I have a beautiful set of patternmaker's chisels, which are stamped with "A. J. Wilkinson" but were, I think, made by Buck Bros. What a nostalgia trip this question has inspired! Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157633 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-02-28 22:40:23 Subject: RE: Toolmaker of the Month Once again, congratulations! I love my/your dovetail saw! Jim in Charlotte NC > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Eddie Sirotich > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:20 PM > To: Wiktor A. Kuc > Cc: 'Oldtools' > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Toolmaker of the Month > > Esteemed Galoots, > > Thank you very much for the recognition! I always enjoy > making saws for fellow Galoots (here is where I started) and > I'll keep on doing that. > > This seems to be my attention getting month as some of you > probably noticed the result of the article in the current > (April) issue of Fine Woodworking. > > Thanks again, > > Eddie Sirotich > > Adria Toolworks Inc. - High Quality Dovetail and Tenon saws > http://www.AdriaTools.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the > Month - March 2006. > > > > In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools > was selected. > > > > I am back to work.... > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > Wiktor A. Kuc > > Albuquerque, NM > > 505-323-8482 > > www.OldToolsShop.com > > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of > hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157634 ---- From: "Todd Hughes" Date: 2006-02-28 22:54:37 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table Steve wrote.... > Hey, if Sawnut is going to post a bench full of <$5 saws, then I want to > post a bench full of <$2 tools. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-1.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-2.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-4.jpg > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pretty good Steve but $2 !?....Geee...I was going to post some pictures of those Yankee Screw eye holders, Mint Yankee bits and the Swedish Barrel Knife, you overlooked at the Flea market the other week and that I got out of the .50 cent box after you left but I already sold them all on the ebay ...[for a little under $300!] .....Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157635 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-01 15:09:47 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table Hi all, Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw in the picture? Found one at a grage sale a week ago in the 'free tools' box! The man was selling cheap and nasty Chinese/Taiwanese tools for stupid prices but had a whole lot of 'goodies' in his freebie box. Thanks in advance Peter B, in very wet and stormy NSW, Australia http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157636 ---- From: Darrell & Kathy Date: 2006-02-28 23:24:10 Subject: getting a handle on things... Galoots, I was puttering about in the shop on the weekend and I decided to clean up that rusty old drawknife I picked up at the Tools Of The Trade sale last October. Rusty indeed. The blade wasn't too bad. But the tangs were seriously rusted. Beyond pitting, and into flaking nasty vileness. The handles had long since been eaten by bugs and slime, so new handles were in order. I scrubbed the blade with a wire brush, and proceeded to drawfile a new edge. From there, some work with sandpaper on a stick, with the drawknife clamped to then edge of the workbench, produced a decent edge. I had to dock the ends of the tangs. The rust had pretty much destroyed the tips. A friend had given me a hunk of grenadilla (?) something greenish, hard, dense and exotic. Looked like good tool handle material. I used my Greenlee drawknife as an example when I turned the new handles. Don't you just *hate* when you're turning the second handle, and it needs one more pass to get it down to the diameter of the first one, when you get a nasty catch? And there's no more of that wood around? I cut a couple of copper rings (3/4 inch pipe) for ferrules, drilled a series of stepped holes, and drove the new handles on. I suppose I should've burned them in, but the torch wasn't near at hand. Mashed a birch offcut on the vise and gave the new knife a quick test run. It works just fine. This will come in real handy next summer making buckets up at the cottage. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3756.JPG -- Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157637 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-02-28 22:54:34 Subject: Re: Re: Gristmill article, 1996 Whoops, I responded to Wayne, should have included the list. Looks like I've found a source for the article. Thanks very much to everyone who generously offered help and suggestions. Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado On 01 Mar., wayne.a.anderson@a... wrote: > The article you are looking for also appears in the book: The > Best of the Gristmill 1974-1999. This book was sent to all members > (I do believe). The article: The Rise of the E.C.Atkins Saw Empire in > Indiana was attributed to Ken Wasson. -Wayne Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157638 ---- From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Date: 2006-03-01 01:43:06 Subject: What is - Paraffin Oil? "Behlen Paraffin Oil" Suppose I have a container of Pumice Stone - and it says I should use it with this "paraffin oil". Suppose that the nearest store that might have a specific brand name "paraffin oil" is 120 miles away. Suppose..... suppose that I might have something else that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157639 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-01 17:58:59 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table Peter B writes: > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > in the picture? It strikes me that the heavy blade, which appears to have a sharp edge along its length, is somewhat similar to a glazier's hacking knife which is used, with a hammer, for removing old, hard putty from window frames etc. More modern hacking knives simply have a pair of scales riveted to the full width tang. The thick back edge copes with hammer blows. My tuppence worth. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157640 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-01 18:11:36 Subject: Re: What is - Paraffin Oil? Thomas W. Hoyt writes: > "Behlen Paraffin Oil" > > Suppose I have a container of Pumice Stone - and it says I should use > it with this "paraffin oil". > > Suppose that the nearest store that might have a specific brand name > "paraffin oil" is 120 miles away. > > Suppose..... > > suppose that I might have something else that would be much > like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? > > > I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that > belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good > 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Paraffin is a Pommy word for kerosene but paraffin oil, in my youth, used to be sold by chemists (pharmacists, drugstores) for much the same purpose as castor oil, to wit, keeping small boys' pipes (guts) shiny and unclogged. A useful expedient in wartime's shortages. Most unwelcome by the average boy. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157641 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-01 09:14:49 Subject: Re: Stair newell cap S. Micah Salb wrote: > > Here's my question: Without using an electric router to mold the edges, > I would have to make molding and apply it to the cap. Well, that's easy > enough. But then the top will show the grain with the molding attached, > which seems somewhat inelegant (no?). I could apply some walnut veneer > on top of it all, but I'm not sure I like that idea, either (both > because I'd rather avoid using veneer, though I have it here to use, and > because the thickness of the veneer will probably show on edge). Doesn't have to; if you quartered the top in veneer and then applied edge moulding, no end grain would show. +---------+ |\ /| | \ / | | \ / | | \ / | | o | | / \ | | / \ | | / \ | |/ \| +---------+ Might be a bit fancy though. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157642 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-01 09:20:46 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table Peter B wrote: > Hi all, > > Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > in the picture? > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg "Pig sticker" mortice chisel. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157643 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-01 06:11:07 Subject: Re: Two Dollah Table On Feb 28, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Todd Hughes wrote: > > Pretty good Steve but $2 !?....Geee...I was going to post some > pictures of those Yankee Screw eye holders, Mint Yankee bits and the > Swedish Barrel Knife, you overlooked at the Flea market the other week > and that I got out of the .50 cent box after you left but I already > sold them all on the ebay ...[for a little under $300!] .....Todd > I meant to leave those there, yeah, that's it. And I bet you would prefer the brass backed saw, too. (mutter, mutter, talk about a guy who suc....) Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157644 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-01 07:50:52 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table Peter, It's a very nice looking heavy duty mortising chisel - referred to often as a pigsticker. I have a few, but none that came from a $2 table - or a freebie box. Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter B" To: "'Old Tools List'" Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: [OldTools] Re: Two Dollah Table > Hi all, > > Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > in the picture? > > Found one at a grage sale a week ago in the 'free tools' box! > The man was selling cheap and nasty Chinese/Taiwanese tools for stupid > prices but had > a whole lot of 'goodies' in his freebie box. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157645 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-01 08:12:44 Subject: Stick Trap? http://tinyurl.com/h8ree Stick traps, whazzem den? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157646 ---- From: "George Wallace" Date: 2006-03-01 06:41:24 Subject: RE: What is - Paraffin Oil? Tom, Mineral oil works just fine. Assuming you are using a finish that isn't water soluble, water will work also. Just be careful with water. I find the pumice cuts faster using it. George George Wallace Rocky Mountain Fine Furniture 11440 Andasol Ave Granada Hills, CA 91344 818-363-3385 415-672-0517 georgew@r... www.rockymountainfinefurniture.com -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Thomas W. Hoyt Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:43 PM To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] What is - Paraffin Oil? "Behlen Paraffin Oil" Suppose I have a container of Pumice Stone - and it says I should use it with this "paraffin oil". Suppose that the nearest store that might have a specific brand name "paraffin oil" is 120 miles away. Suppose..... suppose that I might have something else that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157647 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-03-01 15:03:34 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions GGs and Roy, I forgot that I had bookmarked this link while out looking for traditional moulding profiles. Here's some useful, if somewhat overwhelming, information: http://www.traditional-building.com/article/moldings.htm Very Best Regards to All, Pete Mueller GPP, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157648 ---- From: Russell Ellsworth Date: 2006-03-01 09:10:54 Subject: Re: Toolmaker of the Month This was sent to Jim only!! The mad button pusher strikes. Ditto on my (your?) saw(s!)!! On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:40 PM, Jim Bellina wrote: > Once again, congratulations! I love my/your dovetail saw! > > Jim in Charlotte NC > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: oldtools-bounces@r... >> [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of >> Eddie Sirotich >> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:20 PM >> To: Wiktor A. Kuc >> Cc: 'Oldtools' >> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Toolmaker of the Month >> >> Esteemed Galoots, >> >> Thank you very much for the recognition! I always enjoy >> making saws for fellow Galoots (here is where I started) and >> I'll keep on doing that. >> >> This seems to be my attention getting month as some of you >> probably noticed the result of the article in the current >> (April) issue of Fine Woodworking. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Eddie Sirotich >> >> Adria Toolworks Inc. - High Quality Dovetail and Tenon saws >> http://www.AdriaTools.com >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >> >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the >> Month - March 2006. >>> >>> In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools >> was selected. >>> >>> I am back to work.... >>> >>> Thanks for your help, >>> >>> Wiktor A. Kuc >>> Albuquerque, NM >>> 505-323-8482 >>> www.OldToolsShop.com >>> www.wkFineTools.com >>> >>> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >>> -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of >> hand tool >>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, >>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >>> >>> To read the FAQ: >>> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >>> >>> OldTools archive: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >>> >>> OldTools@r... >>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand >> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the >> history, usage, value, location, availability, >> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, >> especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157649 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-03-01 19:10:38 Subject: Re: What is - Paraffin Oil? Thomas asked about paraffin oil, suppose that I might have something else that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, and what might that be? I'm only working on my workbench - not a mahogany antique that belonged to my Aunt Gertrude. I'd like it "nice" and it's a good 'experimental' surface to practice upon.... Parafinne oil is used as an lubricant you could also use linseed oil the linseed oil will collour your wood a little bit browner but it was used in early nineteenth century by cabinetmakers and French polishers. In the restoration field it is used as the lubricant with french polishing. I rather use Polish oil from Zweihorn a German manufacturer of products for the furniture makers. In some articles Paraffin is mentioned to be used as an oil for finishing Maple but the oil is a non drying oil so it will allways be a little bit greassy and it will attract dust. It is possible to use Paraffine on cutting blocks used in the kitchen. The advantage for using this Paraffine is that it is an odourless and non toxic oil. For using pumice stone as a pore filler you can read the following books: The complete manual of wood finishing by Frederick Oughten (publ. Stobart Davies) Classic Finishing Techniques by Sam Allen (publ. Sterling) French Polishing by Phillipa Barstow and Alan Waterhouse (publ. Batsford) And my most favorite one: The First American Furniture Finishers Manual which is an Reprint of The Cabinet-Makers Guide of 1827 which is edited by Robert D. Mussey Jr.( Dover publications) and it costs me in 1995 $ 5.99 This book contains a lot of recipe's and also a lot off poisonous chemicals used in all kinds of finishing techniques. Kind regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157650 ---- From: "Thomas R. Bruce" Date: 2006-03-01 13:28:58 Subject: [Fwd: [workingtools] Cheney Hammers] Galoots: I forward this to you guys, wondering if anybody has ever taken on a Cheney restoration project. Please respond to her directly (kathyf-at-lebanontn.org). Best, Tb. --- Are you aware of anyone that repairs the ball pein Cheney hammers? A co-worker has a couple of them and the springs and ball bears are in bad shape. Any help you could give me in this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks /*/Kathy Fakes/*/ /*/Marketing / Customer Service/*/ /*/City of Lebanon Gas Dept/*/ /*/1017 Sparta Pk/*/ /*/Lebanon/*//*/, TN 37087/*/ /*/phone: 615-443-2835/*/ /*/fax: 615-443-2807/*/ -- _________________________________________ Thomas R. Bruce (trb2@c...) Director,Legal Information Institute Cornell Law School http://www.law.cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157651 ---- From: "familie Hagen" Date: 2006-03-01 22:25:56 Subject: Stanley no. 50 fence rods Hello all, I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? I hope i can get a fast reply on my question. You can mail me of the list . Kind regards, Martin Hagen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157652 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-01 16:27:41 Subject: Re: Stanley no. 50 fence rods Martin, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. I don't think the rods are anything real special, so in the worst case, you might have to have some made. Hopefully, Stanley might have some old stock. Assuming the 50 is in nice shape, the price sounds OK. I have one, use it and like it a lot. It is for light work, but is easier to use than the 45 for a lot of smaller jobs. Hope this helps. Bruce Z. Kearney, MO You wrote: > > I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 > bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. > Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? I hope i can > get a fast reply on my question. > You can mail me of the list . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157653 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-01 15:01:52 Subject: Re: Stanley no. 50 fence rods familie Hagen wrote: >Hello all, > >I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 >bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. >Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? > Threaded Rods for: #41, #42, #43, #44, #46, #47, #50, #54, #141, #444 and older #45’s $12.50 per pair. from http://stjamesbaytoolco.com/ Look under tools, then under stanley replacement parts -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157654 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-01 18:02:38 Subject: Re: Stanley no. 50 fence rods Drill Rod, either 3/8 or 5/16ths, I don't recall the correct diameter, works just fine for the short/long rods. Michael-San Francisco Martin, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. I don't think the rods are anything real special, so in the worst case, you might have to have some made. Hopefully, Stanley might have some old stock. Assuming the 50 is in nice shape, the price sounds OK. I have one, use it and like it a lot. It is for light work, but is easier to use than the 45 for a lot of smaller jobs. Hope this helps. Bruce Z. Kearney, MO You wrote: > > I can buy an stanley 50 with one complete boxed set of cutters for 50 > bucks. the only problem with it is that the fence rods are missing. > Are they difficult to find? And is it worth the trouble? I hope i can > get a fast reply on my question. > You can mail me of the list . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157655 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-01 20:02:06 Subject: Re: What is - Paraffin Oil? Rev. Tom muses ... > Suppose..... > suppose that I might have something else > that would be much like that paraffin oil on hand, > and what might that be? Mineral oil works nearly as well as paraffin oil. A bit sloppier, as it seems slightly thinner in viscosity, but this is a process that usually requires old clothes, an apron and spreading newspaper under the work area anyway. It will be messy. Mineral spirits and old cloth towels or rags for cleanup work well for me, whereas paper towels do not. I also find that if I pour out a quantity of oil first, and then add stone while mixing, I can control bringing the mix to a workable consistency more easily than by the other way around. Good luck, and happy polishing. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157656 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-02 11:19:23 Subject: Re: Re: Two Dollah Table G'day, I thought the picture showed a beveled edge on the side away from the camera. That beveled edge being absent, it is not a glazier's hacking knife. It had crossed my mind that the tool was a bit "overbuilt" for a hacking knife but, as "overbuilding" seemed to be the rule rather than the exception for some of the old-time manufacturers, I let the thought pass. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul womack" To: "Peter B" Cc: "'Old Tools List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Two Dollah Table > Peter B wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Once again I apologise for perhaps asking a very basic question. > > What exactly is the first chisel-like item up from the fret/coping saw > > in the picture? > > > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/$2-3.jpg > > "Pig sticker" mortice chisel. > > BugBear > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157657 ---- From: Willie Young Date: 2006-03-01 20:25:59 Subject: Bailey / Stanley Sweetheart Planes How does one identify a Bailey and/or Stanley as a Sweetheart plane, and is there something special about them because they are Sweethearts? MGB/Willie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157658 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-01 21:29:04 Subject: Making and Modifying Galoots, Alas, after accepting my order for the Kingshott book, the supplier turned around and gave me a refund as it's "not available at present." Sssshhhhooooot. Pride goeth before a fall. Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157659 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-01 21:26:35 Subject: Re: Making and Modifying Phil said: > > Alas, after accepting my order for the Kingshott book, the supplier > turned around and gave me a refund as it's "not available at present." > Sssshhhhooooot. Pride goeth before a fall. You Ain't the only one, Bro.......Me Too! Chris.....pouting in West Lafayette! (And going to check carefully that I get the refund!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157660 ---- From: "Mike Hamilton" Date: 2006-03-01 21:26:46 Subject: Re: Making and Modifying Woodworking Machines and today the sold-out, order cancelled message came. Regards, Mike Hamilton Plainfield, IN On 2/28/06, Mike Hamilton wrote: > Phil E offered: > > Half.com still has the Jim Kingshott book... > > ABE had the same listing and yesterday I ordered it. Today I got the > temporarily out of stock message. They claim they will be able to > ship in 'no more than' 60 days. > > Another snap purchase put on hold..... > > Regards, > > Mike Hamilton > Plainfield, IN > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157661 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-01 21:29:46 Subject: Advice about Saw Set... I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are in good shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I have and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and sharpening myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would send them out to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour away and I suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it done. Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm leaning to spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being foolish at this point. Thanks! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157662 ---- From: "Frank Sronce" Date: 2006-03-01 20:55:32 Subject: Re: Making and Modifying Chris, I already got mine. (Rebate, not book) :( Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Berger" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Making and Modifying > Phil said: >> >> Alas, after accepting my order for the Kingshott book, the supplier >> turned around and gave me a refund as it's "not available at >> present." >> Sssshhhhooooot. Pride goeth before a fall. > You Ain't the only one, Bro.......Me Too! > > Chris.....pouting in West Lafayette! (And going to check carefully > that I > get the refund!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157663 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-01 21:03:10 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Well, for starters .... $35 for a saw set? Gold plated? Cast in pure bronze? Yikes, even the high priced anteekers in town don't try to pull down that much coin. A vise... maybe, but even that would have to been in rather minty condition. Do make the leap and learn how to do it yourself. Oddly rewarding .. before I went down that path, I put it in roughly the same category as hand sanding. Now I still barely ever sand (scraping much better!!) but I'm happy to pull out a file and sharpen a saw... you can get by on more primitive methods for setting .... ..... better yet, shoot me a mailing address and I'll send you one... finally gonna make it to the post office this week anyway which should get me off the F list of a couple great white north galoots who've already waited way too long for something... cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin (finally coming up for air after a brutal last 6 weeks at work, though I'll confess to sneaking in enough time to fashion a pinewood derby car that more than vaguely resembles a 102 (junky little block plane, Jeff..)) And FWIW, the set is the least of the tools you'd need On 3/1/06, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are in good > shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I have > and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and sharpening > myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would send them out > to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour away and I > suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it done. > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm leaning to > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being foolish > at this point. > > Thanks! > Wendy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157664 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-01 19:06:10 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... I have the equipment, the skill, and the saws. What I don't have is time. And so I send my saws to an expert and pay the small amount of money. If he charges $8 to file a saw, and it takes me an hour to do it, I would be working for $8 an hour. I would much rather pay to have it done. But if you have the time and the inclination, go for it! You need to learn whether you enjoy filing saws or not. On Mar 1, 2006, at 6:29 PM, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are > in good > shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I > have > and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and > sharpening > myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would send > them out > to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour away and I > suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it done. > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm leaning > to > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being > foolish > at this point. > > Thanks! > Wendy > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157665 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-01 19:10:27 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Wendy asks for advice... >I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are >in good > shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files > I have > and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and > sharpening > myself. ... > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm > leaning to > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being > foolish > at this point. First, I do not believe the service will necessarily do a better job than you can your very first time. Wendy, chances are you will do a good job. I would suggest saving the $8 per saw. I would only send them out if they are in such bad shape they need to have the teeth punched back in. Shaping new teeth on your first saw might be a challenge, but with care you can do that too. If they need new teeth due to needing a sever rejointing, consider having the shop only punching in new teeth and then you set and sharpen by hand. That should save you about half the money and you would still have the opportunity to learn to sharpen. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157666 ---- From: "Steve Opacich" Date: 2006-03-01 22:31:57 Subject: Re: Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools by Jim Kingshott Galoots, Check out the selection at Hamiltonbook.com of a number of remaindered Astragal Press titles--startlingly good prices. Just go to their "power search" page and pull down _Astragal_ on the publisher line, then hit search. Steve O. Appleton, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Erdman" > I just discovered that Hamilton Books, a book > remaindering company, is selling "Making & Modifying > Woodworking Tools" by Jim Kingshott for $12.95 plus > $3.25 shipping in the USA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157667 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-03-01 20:32:40 Subject: RE: Toolmaker of the Month Wiktor - Adria Tools is a good choice. Eddie Sirotich has been a member of the porch for quite a while. While I don't have an Adria saw, yet, I did get a good deal on the ECE Primus Improved Smoothing Plane through the generous discount Eddie offered us Porch members when he first starting distributing ECE. Congratulations, Eddie, for your Toolmaker of the Month. Lew Soloway in sunny, but soon to be rainy, So Cal -----Original Message----- From: Wiktor A. Kuc [mailto:KWiktor@m...] Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:56 PM To: 'Oldtools' Subject: [OldTools] Toolmaker of the Month Hello All, The group submitted 8 suggestions for Toolmaker of the Month - March 2006. In a blind drawing done by James D. Thompson, Adria Tools was selected. I am back to work.... Thanks for your help, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157668 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-01 21:59:00 Subject: Re: Bailey / Stanley Sweetheart Planes Hi Willie, I'll take a shot at this one. My apologies if half a dozen other responses have hit the listserv - either the Porch has been strangely quiet today, or the Yahoo mail server is having issues today - probably both. In 1920 the Stanley Rule and Level Company, which manufactured Bailey planes at the time, was bought out by the larger Stanley Works, which made various hardware. To acknowledge the merger, and to honor past Stanley Works president William Hart, the newly merged company produced a new trademark, using the notched Stanley rectangle overlaid by a heart with the letters SW in the center. Three versions of this trademark were used, apparently through 1935 (I wasn't there, so I couldn't tell you definitively!). Here are examples of the three versions: Version 1: http://www.antique-used- tools.com/TmX.jpg Version 2: http://www.antique-used-tools.com/TmY.jpg Version 3: http://www.antique-used-tools.com/TmAA.jpg It's this trademark that is commonly referred to as "Sweetheart", and it was used on a lot more than just bench planes. For an example, I believe Sandy Moss recently sold a pair of Stanley pliers with a Sweetheart trademark. Too cool! There's a nice type study of Stanley #25 sliding T Bevels that happens to contain a fair amount of information on the evolution of the trademark. http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/stanno25tbevtypestudy.htm The catch with a Bailey style plane is that since the trademark is located on the iron, they are often found on irons in planes from other time periods. If you're interested in determining the historical accuracy of a plane, you'll want to look for other points as well, such as the height of the front knob, the patent dates found, and many other points of interest. You can learn a lot about the pedigree of your Bailey- style Stanley plane, starting with the following link: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/ascii_dating_chart.html Since parts are so interchangeable, and since people swap out and reassemble planes so often to create a useable tool (nothing wrong with that!), you have to look at the age of each component of a plane to determine the age. You can't just go by the trademark. The Sweetheart trademark is interesting to many for the symbolism that Stanley put behind it, and for what it represents in the history of the toolmaker. It was a crossroads, and the combined company took a path that would ultimately mean the end of its legacy. That's what I find so fascinating about it. Plus, my nearly-six-year-old daughter seems to like tools with hearts on them! Whatever keeps her interested is fine by me. ;^) I hope this helps. Best Regards, Alex ...standing on the shoulders of giants. ----------- MGB/Willie asks: ----------- > How does one identify a Bailey and/or Stanley as a Sweetheart plane, > and is there something special about them because they are > Sweethearts? MGB/Willie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157669 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-01 22:10:47 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Wendy Sarrett wrote: >Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only >going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. > > Don't always believe that. I sent some round spinny blades to a big WW chain's sharpening service, and they were more fouled up than when they left. I had to pay double to get them corrected at a good local shop I found later. I also sent some knives to the local hardware store for sharpening, they took my serrated bread knife and ground all the teeth of it. Kinda useless after that. Its not hard to do, once you get the hang of it. Its nice to have a good one to compare your own work to, give you something to strive for. I had Tom Law sharpen a few of mine, and I've still got a way to go to catch him (like a lifetime or two of practice), but mine cut tons better than where I started, and better than most people;'s I;ve borrowed. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157670 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-02 16:49:58 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... One and all, Wendy Sarrett writes: > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm only > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. Let me add the Southern Hemisphere's weight to the majority opinion from the Northern. Some "professional" saw sharpeners are foundation members of the Not-Terribly-Good Club. Years ago I had returned from the sharpener's shop two saws which would not then cut straight. Apparently they had been put though a setting machine which resulted in the set on one side being much more pronounced than the set on the other. >From what I read in this list I feel that sawsets should be available in Wendy's part of the world for much less than $35.00 but I see that the magnificent Jim Esten has taken care of that problem. One does not really have to concern oneself with a sawset fitting unless it is planned to tackle something like one of the giant two-man crosscut saws and, although I have a sawset which is supposed to be for fine-toothed saws, I find sawsets of the standard, procrustean pattern quite adequate for setting small teeth. I take it that the instructions obtained on line are those of Pete Taran of Vintage Saws. One won't go wrong following those and, as they contain so much useful information, the re-reading of them a few times handsomely repays the time spent doing so. Pete Taran's detailed saw setting instructions are also very useful but it is not absolutely necessary to follow his preference for setting a saw after it has been sharpened rather than after it has been jointed and filed down prior to final sharpening although his reasons advanced for his preference seem to be quite valid. Most importantly, in my opinion, is the consideration that the acquisition of saw-sharpening skills by one person adds to the conservation of that skill, which otherwise is in danger of being lost, within the community. It is not an impossibly-hard skill to learn and repetition brings with it the development of a certain facility, ease and economy of time surprisingly quickly. Once an otherwise good saw has been brought back from the dead little time is required, even from the relative novice, to "touch it up" during the progress of work and this avoids the temptation to persevere with a saw, notwithstanding its declining performance, until it can be sent to the sharpener. Of course, sharpened saws in reserve also avoid this particular temptation. A good saw vice, whether a metal one or a home-made timber one and good light on the job allow full concentration on the work in hand. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157671 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-02 07:31:33 Subject: Stanley Trademarks (was Bailey / Stanley Sweetheart Bob Kaune's web site has a great Stanley trademark section. Please note that Bob sells tools, and my only relationship with him is that of satisfied customer. http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stantms.htm Gary K Close to Buffalo NY ____________original message_______________________ Alex mentioned in regard to Willie's query about the Stanley Sweetheart logo: --snip, snip-- > > There's a nice type study of Stanley #25 sliding T Bevels that happens to > contain a fair amount of information on the evolution of the trademark. > > http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/stanno25tbevtypestudy.htm > --snip, snip-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157672 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-02 12:57:30 Subject: saw restoration and sharpening - info and tips In a bid to exploit modern technology to aid ancient tools, I've created some printable files to assist in controlling fleam angles when filing teeth, and controlling tooth size/spacing when re-toothing a saw. There's also some stuff about Vallorbe files from APTC, which won't be of interest to anyone outside the UK, and some illustrations intended for use during discussions on tooth reshaping. http://www.geocities.com/plybench/saw_sharpen.html BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157673 ---- From: michigaloot@c... (Dennis Heyza) Date: 2006-03-02 14:45:58 Subject: looking for a Toronto area galoot Hello all, Does anyone live in or near Mississauga? I need some help on a personal matter. Respond off line please. Dennis Heyza Macomb, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157674 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 04:31:48 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Thanks Jim!! I'll shoot you my addy in a separate email. Also please let me know what I owe you for shipping, etc. Wendy On Wednesday 01 March 2006 10:03 pm, Jim Esten wrote: > Well, for starters .... $35 for a saw set? Gold plated? Cast in pure > bronze? Yikes, even the high priced anteekers in town don't try to > pull down that much coin. A vise... maybe, but even that would have > to been in rather minty condition. > > Do make the leap and learn how to do it yourself. Oddly rewarding .. > before I went down that path, I put it in roughly the same category as > hand sanding. Now I still barely ever sand (scraping much better!!) > but I'm happy to pull out a file and sharpen a saw... you can get by > on more primitive methods for setting .... > > ..... better yet, shoot me a mailing address and I'll send you one... > finally gonna make it to the post office this week anyway which should > get me off the F list of a couple great white north galoots who've > already waited way too long for something... > > cheers all, > > Jim E #2 in Wisconsin (finally coming up for air after a brutal last > 6 weeks at work, though I'll confess to sneaking in enough time to > fashion a pinewood derby car that more than vaguely resembles a 102 > (junky little block plane, Jeff..)) > > > And FWIW, the set is the least of the tools you'd need > > On 3/1/06, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > > I need some advice. I bought two old carpenter saws on ebay and are in > > good shape but need to be cleaned, set, filed etc. > > I found a saw set that fits these saws for $35 which, with the files I > > have and the instructions I got on line I can try to do the setting and > > sharpening myself. Alternatively, there is a Woodcraft store that would > > send them out to be professionally done for $8 per saw. It's 1/2 an hour > > away and I suspect I'd have to make two special trips there to get it > > done. Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > > I'm only going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm > > leaning to spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm > > being foolish at this point. > > > > Thanks! > > Wendy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157675 ---- From: Gregory Isola Date: 2006-03-02 09:12:30 Subject: Batman Returns Hey: Short version: Used lots of oldtools to make a pukey duck; everyone's happy. Director's cut: SWMBO and the older GIT have been asking for something to keep the squirrels and jays away from the backyard apple tree this year. (The tree actually "belongs" to the GIT; she's very protective, as it was a b-day gift from a thoughtful cousin.) Helpful neighbor with impressive veggie garden says we need motion, as in a whirligig, to keep the critters at bay. No idea if this will work, but sensing a potentially interesting project, I scanned the library books on the subject. All those flapping ducks and farmers milking cows left me a bit cold, though. Enter the younger GIT. He knows, without question, that any job involving protection is a job for Batman. And since his b-day was on the horizon at the time, I set out to make a Batman whirligig in his honor. Found a relatively simple design in a book, replaced the hopping bunnies and froggies with the Caped Crusader chasing the Riddler (personal favorite villain), and got to it. Cut out the characters and prop blades on Michael (The Slope-Greasing Toymaker) Suwczinsky's Barnes velocipede scrollsaw, and the rest of the woodworking was cake. I hadn't done much metalwork before, but bending and threading the brass rod crankshaft was also pretty easy and really fun. And painting the characters gave me a chance to dust off the rusty comic book art skillz: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3593 Took several tries to get the mechanism running relatively smoothly, but it actually works. No one's more surprised than I. Thar she blows: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3594 Oldtools used: WS rip saw 14-inch Pilot Works tenon saw Union transitional smoother Fray #106 10-inch brace with mondo 1 7/8 center bit Record 044 plow plane Goodell-Pratt eggbeater Goodell-Pratt bench drill press Coping saw 6-32 die and vise grips for metalwork Various files and rasps Greg Isola Alameda, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157676 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-02 12:23:23 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Wendy: My suggestion is to send ONE saw out for sharpening, so you have a model of what a good sharpening job looks like. I'm learning saw sharpening the hard way too. I've done six so far, (the two rip saws don't count, they're easy) and only the last one cuts well. The good news is that I get to have more practice when I resharpen the other five. And...not all saw sharpenings include setting. If the teeth are properly set before you sharpen, you may not need to reset after. I've found that about half the saws I've run into don't need setting, at least the first time. Otherwise, my suggestion is that you have good light. I have a hard time seeing the light glint off the shiny sharpened metal without positioning a light just so. Walt C Going out to check my stable of partially sharpened cheap saws. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157677 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-02 10:32:59 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... alas, this only works when you *know* the sharpener to whom you're sending the saw will do a good job. if tom law were around, i'd say you could know for certain. i'm fortunate ken greenberg is nearby, and does a fine job. the millrat has his local place, which i think takes mailed-in saws. i know dylan said you could learn more from a bad example than from a good, but i don't think it's true in this case. best, bill felton, ca On Mar 2, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Walt Cheever wrote: > My suggestion is to send ONE saw out for sharpening, so you have a > model of what a good sharpening job looks like. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157678 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-02 15:31:02 Subject: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... Hi folks... If anyone out there has a late model Stanley 271 router plane (the little one), could you please see if you can determine the details of the screw that holds the blade in? (pitch and size). I've tried everything I have available locally, and have drawn a blank (granted, there's not much here). Stanley hasn't been real responsive, other than to say that its no longer made, and parts are not longer in stock...... I figure if I can determine what the proper screw is, I can probably find one somewhere....... (at least I hope so)... Course, if you have a dead/dogmeat 271, but the screw is in OK condition, we could just have a little chat, yes? Thanks a ton folks --JD still trying to clear the last dumpage of snow from the driveway, but being defeated by the wind.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157679 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-02 13:01:22 Subject: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... I just checked mine. The threads are 10-28. I miked the OD of the threads at .180" and the thread gauge lines up nicely at 28 tpi. Isn't that a standard thread? I haven't looked at a chart, but it sounds familiar. On Mar 2, 2006, at 12:31 PM, James DuPrie wrote: > Hi folks... > If anyone out there has a late model Stanley 271 router plane (the > little > one), could you please see if you can determine the details of the > screw > that holds the blade in? (pitch and size). I've tried everything I have > available locally, and have drawn a blank (granted, there's not much > here). > Stanley hasn't been real responsive, other than to say that its no > longer > made, and parts are not longer in stock...... > > I figure if I can determine what the proper screw is, I can probably > find > one somewhere....... (at least I hope so)... > > Course, if you have a dead/dogmeat 271, but the screw is in OK > condition, we > could just have a little chat, yes? > > Thanks a ton folks > > --JD > > still trying to clear the last dumpage of snow from the driveway, but > being > defeated by the wind.... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157680 ---- From: "Spike" Date: 2006-03-02 13:15:42 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... One small point about saw sharpening- if you can find someone who knows what they are doing, and they will let you watch them, you will get a huge jump start on the skill. I learned more about sharpening from watching my father than all the reading I've done. And I wasn't expecting to ever do it myself at the time! _____________ Spike Cornelius PDX - Crazy for Shavings ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157681 ---- From: "Gary P. Laroff" Date: 2006-03-02 13:59:28 Subject: Addis History and Carving Tool Imprint Overview (Long) Addis History and Carving Tool Imprint Overview copyright 2006, Gary P. Laroff This is an updated discussion of the two major makers of "Addis" tools and attempt to assign and date the imprints on the tools. Aside from the Galoot and collector interest in Addis carving tools, the leading carving experts, when asked about second-hand or classic carving tools, almost always list "Addis", "Herring Bros." and "Ward & Payne" as the best. Current experts Chris Pye, Ian Agrell, Mack Headley and others use Addis, Herring and Ward carving tools. Therefore a bit of Herring and Ward history is tossed in as necessary when they crossed paths with the Addises. This compendium is based on the private and published work of others. Although all the tools referenced are mine, the historical research is a summary of the primary research of others. For the most part, the information presented here is consistent with that of Don McConnell some of which has been copied from his post of 2005. This summary also includes facts from the Oldtools posts of the past, Barry Learoyd and that forwarded by others. Much of Don's summary is not repeated here, so you need both postings to build a complete story. Some facts have been adjusted or deleted based on new information from The Hawley Collection, who is especially thanked for unraveling many of the details related to James Bacon Addis and for the dating of some S. J. Addis trademarks from the period after Samuel Joseph's death and are on tools made by the firm of Ward & Payne. This Addis project continues. All those interested in the Addis history and tools are requested to continue communicating new-found Addis information to correct and expand what is listed here. Examples of tools with all the tool imprints/trade marks listed here are present in my collection of carving tools. All of these are, of course, user tools. Our main interest is with Samuel Joseph Addis (S. J. Addis) and his younger brother James Bacon Addis (J. B. Addis). There is evidence that the Addis family was in the edge-tool business as far back as 1717 or 1720 with continuation well into the 20th Century. Late 19th Century Addis listings state "Established 1717". There were perhaps as many as ten generations of Addis edge-tool makers. Addis History, mostly chronological: 1792 - This is the furthest back we can go at this time. Samuel Addis was an edge tool maker who lived on Church Street, Deptford, in the County of Kent and who was listed as an auctioneer in the 1820s and 1830s. He had two sons, Samuel Addis (uncle to S. J. Addis, otherwise a dead end) and Joseph James Addis. 1792 - Joseph James Addis born to Samuel Addis. Joseph James was a tool maker and had eight children: three sons and five daughters. The oldest was Samuel Joseph and the youngest was James Bacon. Both sons, and perhaps others, were apprenticed to Joseph James, but we know the most about Samuel Joseph's apprenticeship and life in London and James Bacon's business relationship with the firm of Ward & Payne and his difficulties with the Sheffield unions. Joseph James was apprenticed to his father Samuel and started in business in Kent. We can track him back to at least 1840, but he must have been in business in Kent before that. He is first listed in London in 1845 and is still listed there in 1858 at the time of his death. Address was 4 Church Street, Deptford. The earliest tool imprint we have of Joseph James is "ADDIS". The tools have all the characteristics of early carving tools. 1811 - Samuel Joseph Addis (the S. J. Addis) born to Joseph James Addis. 1829 - James Bacon Addis (the J. B. Addis) born to Joseph James Addis as the third son and eighth (last) child. 1840 (or 1845) to 1858 - Joseph James worked at 4 Church Street, Deptford and stayed there until he died in 1858. For the earlier part of this period, Samuel Joseph was his apprentice and or partner. During this time or earlier, he used the "ADDIS" and later the "ADDIS SENr" imprints. The latter was to differentiate his work from that of Samuel Joseph. 1846 to 1853 - Samuel Joseph, carving tool maker, was located at 6 Lower Fore Street, Lambeth. For a time in 1851, the Hawley Report notes him away from home at Union Court, possibly setting up his display at The Great Exhibition, 1851. Primary imprints were "S. J. ADDIS JUNr" and "S. J. ADDIS JUNr LONDON." I know of no tools with a "Lower Fore Street" imprint. Regarding "S. J. Addis, Junior", this was a common reference to a son and Samuel Joseph had two daughters and no sons. There was no S. J. Addis, Jr. and numerous sources agree on this fact, which contradicts Goodman. The terms senior and junior refer to a father and son was quite common. After Samuel Joseph's death, his nephew James Bacon Addis, Jr. had a son named Samuel Joseph. 1850 - Thomas Herring, the 16 year old son of William Herring, an edge tool forger in Sheffield, moves to London and "visits" Samuel Joseph Addis. Thomas began working for Samuel Joseph, perhaps as an apprentice. 1853 - Thomas Herring, 19, marries Harriet Addis, daughter of Samuel Joseph Addis. The couple had two sons, Thomas Herring (born 1853) and Joseph Herring (born 1857). Harriet died in childbirth in 1857. Thomas later went into the carving tool business with his brother Edwin, setting up shop across the street from Samuel Joseph Addis on Gravel Lane. 1854 - James Bacon Addis (age 25), carving tool maker, was located at 17 Charlotte Street, Blackfriars. The year 1851, when he was 22, is also documented. The Hawley Report notes this as the last known address until 1871 in Sheffield, although we know he moved to Sheffield in 1863. Other sources also list the address 29 Lucus St. There are no known imprints from the London era of James Bacon Addis, but some probably exist out there somewhere. The tools with prize medals dates of 1870 and later are too late to have been made in London and those with early prize medal dates state an address of Sheffield. 1853 (or 54) to 1863 (or 64) - Samuel James listed at 2 & 20 Gravel Lane, Southwark, London. Imprints were "S.J. ADDIS, 20 GRAVEL LANE, LONDON" and "S.J. ADDIS, 20 GRAVEL LANE, SOUTHWARK LONDON". There are also tools imprinted with a large "S.J. ADDIS JUNr LONDON" on the back and a smaller, finer "S.J. ADDIS 20 GRAVEL LANE SOUTHWARK LONDON" on the top, which might be old stock from Lower Fore Street remarked early in the Gravel Lane era. The evidence seems to fit this assumption. 1858 - Joseph James Addis dies. 1863 to 1867 (or 68) - Samuel Joseph working at 49 & 50 Worship St., Finsbury, London. Imprint: "WORSHIP ST, FINSBURY" with "S.J. ADDIS LONDON" followed by the Masonic crossed compass and square insignia, often noted in writing as "XX". These are the first of the S. J. Addis tools that appear to have the crossed compass and square insignia. The insignia is part of the metal name stamp and is always after the name and address on these tools. 1867 (or 68) to 1870 (or 1871?) - Samuel Joseph working at 68 & 70 Worship St. It has been suggested that Samuel Joseph didn't move in the 1867 timeframe but that the city renumbered Worship St. so that 49 & 50 became 68 & 70. 1869, 1870 or 1871 (probably 1870) - Samuel Joseph Addis dies. He outlived one of his daughters. Shortly after his death, the Sheffield firm of Ward & Payne bought rights to his name. There remain open questions regarding whether S. J. Addis or Ward & Payne stamped the sweep numbers on the tools and who manufactured the S. J. Addis tools with the crossed compass and square insignia. These issues are discussed further below. The tools with crossed hammers over an anvil and the letters W P are from the Ward & Payne era and were manufactured after S. J. Addis had passed away. At this point the S. J. Addis story moves from London to Sheffield. There was potential competition between the Addis brothers. The Hawley Collection states "Although both Samuel Joseph and James Bacon Addis exhibited at the Great Exhibition in 1851, with James Bacon being awarded a medal, they do not seem to have been working in a formal partnership. From 1854, Samuel's advertisements claim that he was the 'sole inventor of the improved carvers' tools exhibited at the Great Exhibition, 1851'". Before discussing the Sheffield years, we should discuss the firm of Ward & Payne. Much is known and written about them so the following is just enough to place them in perspective and allow us to continue the story. Apologies for any errors in the company's early history. Many companies, especially Ward & Payne, had a penchant for marketing and the tendency to claim they were older and bigger than they actually were. This summary has little interest in whether Ward & Payne was discontinuous with the previous David Ward company or not, as The Hawley reports shows clearly, and will discuss Ward & Payne as the continuation and growth of an old family-based company. Ward & Payne was founded in Sheffield by one David Ward, edge-tool manufacturer in 1803. The company had the name David Ward. David Ward's son Edward joined the company around 1837 and the company name was changed to David Ward & Sons or David Ward & Co. Perhaps both names were used in succession. Henry Payne appears as an edge tool maker in 1837 and joins the company prior to 1845. Perhaps he joined in 1837 and caused the name change to David Ward & Co. In 1843 Henry Payne registered the well-known Ward & Payne trade mark of the crossed hammers above an anvil with W to the left and P to the right. Henry Payne became junior partner in 1845 and died in 1850 and ownership of the company reverted back to the Ward family. After 1845 the firm built a large business in edge tools concentrating on carving tools, chisels and gouges. Another David Ward (1835 - 1889), possibly the son of Edward Ward, took over the company in 1855 and was apparently an aggressive young executive with the company before that. He grew the company's fortunes in both the sheep shearing scissor and carving tool businesses. The company grew, expanded their factory to a full city block and published a 501 page catalog in 1911. They were apparently still in business up to around 1970. 1853 - James Bacon Addis, Jr. is born in Lambeth, London. 1863 or 1864 - James Bacon Addis, living in London and after winning a second prize medal in 1862, essentially declares bankruptcy and applies for work with Ward & Payne in Sheffield. Ward & Payne had received customer feedback that Sheffield-made carving tools were not as good as those made in London and that the tools made by Addis were the best, so James Bacon Addis was given a job. James Bacon lived just outside the Sheffield town center, on Triplett Lane, which becomes Portobello in Sheffield. This means he lived in the shadow of the Ward & Payne factory. At the time, Samuel Joseph Addis was still at the Gravel Lane address and would live for another 5 or 6 years. Stories that James Bacon moved to Sheffield when his brother died are most likely incorrect. James Bacon worked as a contractor supplying carving tools to Ward & Payne. 1871 - James Bacon Addis had considerable difficulties with the local union, which are well documented elsewhere. On at least one occasion, he moved back to London. In 1871 he is listed as a carving tool manufacturer at 127 Portobello in Sheffield. He is registered as living at Court 16, Rockingham Street with his wife, son James Bacon Jr. and an extended family. 1870 to 1871 - After the death of James Bacon Addis's brother Samuel Joseph, Ward & Payne bought the rights to the mark "S. J. Addis of London" and started marketing carving tools under this esteemed brand. There may have been a large stock of tools moved from London and either Ward & Payne or James Bacon Addis may also have made them. The Hawley Collection and others state that James Bacon made the carving tools for Ward & Payne for at least ten years. James Bacon Addis was busy and made tools for a number of companies. I have seen a carving tool with a Marples three-leaf clover imprint overstamped J. B. Addis & Sons and also a Ward & Payne so overstamped. 1872 - By this time the relationship between James Bacon Addis and Ward & Payne was apparently failing or canceled. James Bacon is listed as working from Arctic Works, Court 2, Rockingham Street. Tool imprints from this period state the maker as "J. B. Addis". Actual tool dates are indicated by the Prize Medals years listed. See below. After 1872 -- By this time James Bacon was articulating in advertisements that the only true Addis-made carving tools carried the "J. B. Addis & Sons" brand. Ads from this period state the valid imprints on tools and enable us to date many of the J. B. Addis tools made after 1872. The Hawley Collection lists 1874 as the most likely date for a split between James Bacon Addis and Ward & Payne. The company was still working at the Arctic Works at least past 1881. 1879 - James Bacon Addis, age 49, was living at 46 Newcastle Street with his wife and two grandsons. Nearby, at the Arctic Works, lived James Bacon, Jr. (age 26) a carving tool maker, his wife Elizabeth and son Samuel J. Addis. The principles of J. B. Addis & Sons were listed as James Bacon Addis, James Bacon Addis, Jr., and George Allkins Addis. Don McConnell also lists Samuel Joseph Addis of London, but this is probably a reference to Samuel Joseph Addis, born that year as son of James Bacon Jr. and grandson of James Bacon Addis. 1890 - James Bacon Addis dies in Sheffield. 1891 - Jane Addis, widow of James Bacon, lives at 46 Newcastle Street. James Bacon Jr. (age 39), carving tool manufacturer, lives next door at 44 Newcastle Street with his wife Elizabeth (age 35), and three sons and a daughter - Samuel J, aged 12; James B, aged 8; Thomas F, aged 6 and Ada aged 3. 1911 - Apparently James Bacon Addis, Jr. has died by this date. J. B. Addis & Sons continues with principles Elizabeth (55), George Addis (age 43) and James Bacon Addis III (age 28). 1960s - Ward & Payne were selling S. J. Addis Brand carving tools through the 1960s. The latest catalog in my collection is from 1961. Ken Hawley notes that J. B. Addis & Sons carving tools were made in the same factory until shortly before World War I when the manufacturing was moved to the Soho Wheel in Sheffield. Directory entries for the company end in 1965. Trade Marks, Marks and Imprints on Tools This list of tool trade marks and imprints comes from the tools that I have. Certainly others must exist. In the list below, the word "over" refers to two lines of text. The slash symbol "/" implies part of the imprint is on the top of the tool and part is on the bottom (or left and right of the tool). The symbol "XX" stands for the crossed compass and square. WP stands for the Ward & Payne insignia of W and P flanking crossed hammers over an anvil. ADDIS Joseph James Addis, probably between 1811 and early 1840s. The tool looks old with solid square billet shaft and a well shaped thick octagonal shoulder. Lettering is large. No sweep number. ADDIS SENr Joseph James Addis probably 1845 - 1858 when he needed to differentiate his product from those of his son. Tool is very much like the one described above except the octagonal shoulder is flatter. Lettering is large. No sweep number. S. J. ADDIS JUNr Samuel Joseph Addis probably 1846 - 1853. Tool is very much like the one described above except the octagonal shoulder is flatter. Lettering is large. No sweep number. S. J. ADDIS JUNr over LONDON (large lettering) / S.J. ADDIS 20 GRAVEL LANE SOUTHWARK LONDON (medium lettering). Samuel Joseph Addis probably early in the period 1853 - 1863 when older product from Lower Fore Street was over stamped for new shop location. No sweep number. S.J. ADDIS 20 GRAVEL LANE / SOUTHWARK LONDON (medium lettering) Samuel Joseph Addis 1853 - 1863 or 1864. The shoulder is a heavily rounded octagon. No sweep number. S. J. ADDIS LONDON followed by XX / WORSHIP ST FINSBURY Samuel Joseph Addis 1863 - 1867 or 1869. No sweep number. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over LONDON (small lettering) Without a street address and without a sweep number, this tool might be a late S. J. Addis made tool around 1869, an S. J. Addis made tool left over and purchased by Ward & Payne or could be a Ward & Payne carving tool. If the imprint has the XX taller than the small neat two lines of text , then this tool should date to the 1880s. Ward & Payne had their markmaker, Edward Prior of Sheffield, make this trademark during the 1880s. Note that during this period, some if not most Ward & Payne carving tools were still being made by J. B. Addis. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over LONDON / Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool from the 1880s. See above. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over CAST STEEL / Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool from the 1880s or early 1890s. The only reason I would date this as 1880s is that other CAST STEEL imprints have ENGLAND on the reverse, which usually implies the tool is from after the 1890s or early 1900s. XX followed by S. J. ADDIS over CAST STEEL / ENGLAND and Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool from the 1890s or later. Although I can't find the definitive resource, I believe tools had to state their country of origin starting around the mid 1890s. WP followed by S. J. ADDIS over CAST STEEL / ENGLAND and Sweep Number This is probably a Ward & Payne tool between 1895 and World War I. Although I can't find the definitive resource, I believe the imprints stating "CAST STEEL" ended around World War I. WP followed by S. J. ADDIS / ENGLAND and Sweep Number This is probably Ward & Payne tool between World War I and World War II. This is really a guess, but the XX trade mark and CAST STEEL are no longer there. S. J. ADDIS / Sweep Number. These were in production by Ward & Payne in 1961. The removal of the WP logo seems to have occurred around or after World War II. J. B. ADDIS / PRIZE MEDAL over 51, 62, 70 & 71. No Sweep Number. J. B. Addis production 1872. J. B. ADDIS & SONS / PRIZE MEDALS over 51, 62, 70 & 71. (large lettering). Probably early imprint with new company name including his sons. Post 1872. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over ARCTIC WORKS SHEFFIELD / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 62. Must be after 1872. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 62. Current production 1881. J. B. ADDIS & SONS / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 78 (large lettering). After 1878, probably after 1881. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 9 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 & 78. After 1878, probably after 1881. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 10 PRIZE MEDALS. Well after 1889, perhaps 1890s. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD, ENG. / 10 PRIZE MEDALS. Probably mid 1890s or later.. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD / 10 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 to 89. Well after 1889, perhaps 1890s. J. B. ADDIS & SONS over SHEFFIELD, ENGLAND / 10 PRIZE MEDALS over 51 to 89. Probably after 1890s. J.B. ADDIS & SONS with Sweep Number. Heavy black finish on back of tool very much like a current carving tool from Henry Taylor. Probably well into 1900s and perhaps even World War II. Discussion: We should address the triple question of: A) who invented the current universal system of carving tools, meaning the sweeps that became the London or Sheffield list? B) who assigned the numbering system? and C) who started putting the sweep numbers on the tools? A) There is sufficient circumstantial evidence attributing the invention of the "improved carvers tools" to S. J Addis for me to accept this as fact. It has been repeated in many ways by various parties and no source or advertisement ever seemed to discredit S. J. Addis from being the inventor. Therefore, by default, I give him credit for the sweeps, etc. but not necessarily for the numbering system describing them. B) S.J. Addis might have invented the numbering system in use since at least 1870, but he had no need for it. He had a single shop, advertised his street address and patrons probably visited him and discussed their needs face to face and then looked over the wares. Why would he need a four digit SKU numbering system? On the other hand, Ward & Payne needed it. They sold around the world (or at least Europe, Australia and North America) via catalogs and needed a way to communicate tool length, the sweep, the size and whether straight, long bent, short bent or back bent. Ward & Payne needed the numbering system so that customers could accurately order tools and their factory could ship the right ones. The earliest chart I can find is from 1870 and is from Pawson & Brailsford, Sheffield. Whether S. J. Addis invented the numbering system or not, there is no evidence that he ever used it. The evidence is that the Sheffield manufacturers did use it. C) The carving tools attributed to S. J. Addis in this summary do not have the sweep numbers stamped into them. All the "S. J. Addis" carving tools with sweep numbers bear the later Ward & Payne trademarks and imprints. Stamping sweep numbers in carving tools seems to have begun after 1870, the year S. J. Addis died. There is a lot of information in the above summary and a lot of assumptions had to be made. It is important for us to continue this research and discuss the issues that don't seem to add up. Gary Laroff Portland, Oregon February 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157682 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-02 16:09:46 Subject: RE: Batman Returns Greg; Pukey duck or not, I have a daughter that would love one of these....lets see, I still have that time between midnight and 6 open.... >pretty easy and >really fun. And painting the characters gave me a chance to >dust off the >rusty comic book art skillz: > >http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >Took several tries to get the mechanism running relatively >smoothly, but it >actually works. No one's more surprised than I. Thar she blows: > >http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157683 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-02 15:33:27 Subject: Help needed I just received a package with a saw I purchased. TACONY SAW CO. on the etch... Medallion - Warranted Superior. The design of the etch is very similar to other saws that Disston produced for 3rd parties. Never head of, never seen any literature on this company. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157684 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-02 18:14:03 Subject: Re: Help needed Tom Price back in 2001 wrote something about the Tacony Saw Co. See http://archive.oldtools.org/archive_get.phtml?message_id=96712 Jack in Endwell, NY On 3/2/06, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > I just received a package with a saw I purchased. > > TACONY SAW CO. on the etch... > Medallion - Warranted Superior. > > The design of the etch is very similar to other saws that > Disston produced for 3rd parties. > > Never head of, never seen any literature on this company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157685 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-03 10:30:23 Subject: Stanley # 49 Tongue & Groove Plane Fellow Galoots, * The most obvious difference between a Stanley # 48 and # 49 , is the _overall length of the plane._ * *Stanley # 48* are _10 1/2 inches total length._ *Stanley # 49* are *_10 inches total length _( 1877 - 1936 )* * _ 9 inches total length._( 1937 - 1942 *) *Patents Dates*. Millers 7/6/1875 ( */basic patent/* ) / 8/22/1886 (/ *improved patent*/ ) The Stanley # 49 were *Japanned prior to 1896 , and nickel plated after this date.* All the Japanned Models have the *Millers 7/6/1875 patent date* *in their casting.* * _The Stanley # 49 is much more scarce_*_ _than the # 48. * The # 49 came stock with 2 x 3/16 cutters *, but were *also supplied with an extra wide cutter* for oversize stock. *The Model # 49 *I have has the following features : Japanned Model.( Type 1 ) Total Length = 10 inches. Vine pattern in handle. Millers 7/6/1875 patent date below handle. 2 x 3 /16 cutters. Trumpet shaped ( nickel ) lever screws . 7 1/2 X 3/4 X 3/4 Swing Fence. Timber Tote with brass screw. If you would like a photo of this plane , send me an email . Regards , Stewart Simpson / Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157686 ---- From: "Bret Rochotte" Date: 2006-03-02 19:22:13 Subject: EAIA Chronical articles online Hello; I thought someone might be interested in this web based article search engine I found: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3983 The text of articles from the "Chronical" are available. I hope this helps, Bret Bret and Wendy Rochotte New Bremen, Ohio rochotte@b... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157687 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-02 20:02:47 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Spike, I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what he does? Larry Spike wrote: > One small point about saw sharpening- if you can find someone who >knows what they are doing, and they will let you watch them, you will >get a huge jump start on the skill. > I learned more about sharpening from watching my father than all the >reading I've done. And I wasn't expecting to ever do it myself at the >time! > >_____________ > >Spike Cornelius >PDX - Crazy for Shavings > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157688 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-02 19:53:58 Subject: RE: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Here's a review of the video by ALF... http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7355 Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of L.A. Root Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:03 PM To: Spike Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Advice about Saw Set... Spike, I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what he does? Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157689 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-02 19:54:46 Subject: RE: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Whoops, make that Bugbear... Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of L.A. Root Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:03 PM To: Spike Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Advice about Saw Set... Spike, I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what he does? Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157690 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 20:45:53 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Thank you John, Yes, I agree. It's sort of sad when old skills die out...especially when they're so useful. I'm glad groups such as this exist so that such skills, including hand tool skills in general continue to exist. I am going to give it a shot with the saw set that Larry is so kindly sending to me. I took some "before" shots so I can see the comparion when I'm done "de rusting", setting, sharpening, etc. Yes, I did see some pix of making a saw vice...I'll have to take another look. Thanks again! Wendy On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:49 am, you wrote: > One and all, > > Wendy Sarrett writes: > > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but I'm > > only > > > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. > > Let me add the Southern Hemisphere's weight to the majority opinion from > the Northern. > > Some "professional" saw sharpeners are foundation members of the > Not-Terribly-Good Club. Years ago I had returned from the sharpener's shop > two saws which would not then cut straight. Apparently they had been put > though a setting machine which resulted in the set on one side being much > more pronounced than the set on the other. > > From what I read in this list I feel that sawsets should be available in > Wendy's part of the world for much less than $35.00 but I see that the > magnificent Jim Esten has taken care of that problem. One does not really > have to concern oneself with a sawset fitting unless it is planned to > tackle something like one of the giant two-man crosscut saws and, although > I have a sawset which is supposed to be for fine-toothed saws, I find > sawsets of the standard, procrustean pattern quite adequate for setting > small teeth. > > I take it that the instructions obtained on line are those of Pete Taran of > Vintage Saws. One won't go wrong following those and, as they contain so > much useful information, the re-reading of them a few times handsomely > repays the time spent doing so. Pete Taran's detailed saw setting > instructions are also very useful but it is not absolutely necessary to > follow his preference for setting a saw after it has been sharpened rather > than after it has been jointed and filed down prior to final sharpening > although his reasons advanced for his preference seem to be quite valid. > > Most importantly, in my opinion, is the consideration that the acquisition > of saw-sharpening skills by one person adds to the conservation of that > skill, which otherwise is in danger of being lost, within the community. > It is not an impossibly-hard skill to learn and repetition brings with it > the development of a certain facility, ease and economy of time > surprisingly quickly. Once an otherwise good saw has been brought back > from the dead little time is required, even from the relative novice, to > "touch it up" during the progress of work and this avoids the temptation to > persevere with a saw, notwithstanding its declining performance, until it > can be sent to the sharpener. Of course, sharpened saws in reserve also > avoid this particular temptation. > > A good saw vice, whether a metal one or a home-made timber one and good > light on the job allow full concentration on the work in hand. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157691 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 20:55:16 Subject: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Yes, that's how I'm doing it. Since I didn't spend a huge amount on them I'm not as worried about messing up than had they been new. Someone also suggested a video that I might go for. Thanks again! Wendy On Thursday 02 March 2006 03:23 pm, Kerry Walker wrote: > I'll crawl out from under the porch (way in the back) and chime in here. > > Wendy asks for advice... > > > Clearly a professional would do a better job than a first timer but > > I'm only > > going to learn how to do this sort of thing by doing it. I'm > > leaning to > > spending the money and giving it a go but I'm wondering If I'm being > > foolish > > at this point. > > I agree with Mike on this one. I recently went to a "Saw Sharpening > Service" and they told me that they don't prefer to do hand saws because > its easier to throw them away and purchase a new one. ( That falls under > the "wrong answer" category in my book). > > I to was a bit reluctant to start sharpening on my own by reading the > online guides etc. Once I had someone show me how and what to do (Thanks > Mike) I was fine. I successfully sharpened a cross-cut saw with out to > much trouble. Took a couple hours but I'm sure I'll get quicker with > practice. > > Back under the porch and out of the rain in a mild but very windy Portland, > OR Kerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157692 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-02 21:00:05 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Thanks Spike! Unfortunately I don't know anyone but I got some good pointers to a book, video and web sites that should be helpful. Wendy On Thursday 02 March 2006 04:15 pm, Spike wrote: > One small point about saw sharpening- if you can find someone who > knows what they are doing, and they will let you watch them, you will > get a huge jump start on the skill. > I learned more about sharpening from watching my father than all the > reading I've done. And I wasn't expecting to ever do it myself at the > time! > > _____________ > > Spike Cornelius > PDX - Crazy for Shavings > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157693 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-02 21:09:08 Subject: Need help Tacony Saw Co. Wiktor Kuc wrote about a hand saw he just received marked Tacony Saw Co. Wiktor: I did a search a while back on the Tacony Saw Co. and came up empty. I would say this saw would had to have been made by Disston, because as far as I know they were the only saw makers in Tacony, PA. (Just north east of Philadelphia). You can do a Google search on Henry Disston Tacony, PA or Tacony, PA itself and come up with quite a bit of information, but no mention of a Tacony Saw Co. Don't feel bad. I sent Erv Schaffer info on six hand saws that I couldn't identify and he never heard of any of them. Strike out zero for six. Bob Sturgeon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157694 ---- From: "Kerry Walker" Date: 2006-03-02 20:01:50 Subject: Re: On the trapline Phil, I have access to copies of National Geographic back to issue 1. I can send you a copy of the article, do you want it electronic or hard copy? Regards, Kerry >>> "Phil and Debbie Koontz" 02/25/06 9:30 AM >>> Hi galoots-- I know I'm taking a bit of a liberty here, and hope the moms will be tolerant one more time. After the slabwood construction thread, though, I thought this story about a few days in a friend's trapping cabin might be considered marginally on topic. I posted it on my personal blog a few weeks ago. I have a favor to ask at the end of the note. *********** Well, it was a great trip. Roger and I left town last Tuesday (Jan 10) morning at about daylight, heading south through little Kala slough. It was around 20 below, and he checked traps all the way, leaving me pretty much lost and confused about where the trails were. Roger told me his trapping cabin is about a 58 mile drive, but we didn't go directly there, so it was a bit longer, and it was well after dark when we arrived at camp on the headwaters of the Yuki River. The cabin is two- sided logs, maybe 12 feet by 16, with the ridge pole at eye level, so the only place we could stand upright is next to the ridge. It's a fairly classy place by trapping cabin standards though, bigger than most, with two big windows and a generator to run electric lights in the evenings. Cozy enough that we could easily touch each other from just about anywhere in the place, but still with enough room to take a deep breath occasionally. The beds are in the two back corners, the stove, woodbox, and kitchen along one wall, and the storage for parts, supplies, traps, pelts and furs along the other wall. Hanging cold weather gear, fur stretchers, gloves, and boots took up most of the free space along the walls. We hauled in gas and food, and Roger had made a trip by ski plane to restock the propane and extra gas drums. Each day I would follow Roger around his traplines (there are several-- we did one going each way, plus three more while we were there. He has several more traplines that aren't in use this year, and opened several miles of a new line he is working on), driving his old Bravo. My snowgo got me there, but it's not made for backwoods use. The skiis are too wide for the traplines, and it has trouble with deep snow and banging through dense woods, so he told me to just leave it in camp. In fact, I had intended to come home after a day or two, but I decided to stay with him because I didn't really trust my snowgo to get me home by myself. Roger traps mainly marten. They are small predators, bigger than weasels and smaller than housecats. He used pole sets and Victor #1 leghold traps. A pole set is a stick about 10 feet long and maybe 4" in diameter that he wires in place horizontally so the bait is about shoulder level at the butt end of the pole. Between the bait and the nearest tree is a trap, so that when the marten goes out the pole to get the bait (dried salmon scraps), he/she steps on the trap and jumps off the pole, to hang by the trap chain. We got about a dozen martens each day out of maybe 50 traps. It's an all day trip to run each trapline--maybe 8 hours for a 20-30 mile trapline. The daylight is still only about 5 hours, so we got back to camp well after dark every day. Things went pretty well until Friday when we stopped for lunch, but I need to digress here. It's SO pretty out there. Unbelievable. Down "here" in the valleys, there is about an inch of frost on everything, so the trees are all completely covered with fluffy white. Up on the hills the trees have more like a foot of snow blown and packed onto every surface, so there are places that look like a huge cocktail party for giant snowmen-- thousands of billowy pillars bending and gesturing as if they are in deep conversation. Every day we would stop for lunch on a mountain peak above the tree line, with a vista of hundreds of miles of wilderness Alaska all around, lit by the low angle sun with pastel colors. It brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Lunch was smoked king salmon strips, tea, crackers, and sometimes cookies, eaten while we sat on the snowgoes watching the scenery. My camera refused to work on the entire trip, dammit, but I got a few pictures on Roger's camera. I will try to post them soon. So there we were, Friday afternoon, finishing lunch. Roger fired up his machine and went ahead to check traps while I packed up lunch stuff and got ready to follow. I broke his Bravo at that point--pulled the starter rope too hard and it came loose in my hand. The machine was already kinda hard to start because the compression was getting bad, but there is an emergency starting technique the involves wrapping a rope around the clutch. So, when Roger came back to help me start the Bravo, it took both of us about 15 minutes to get it going. Meanwhile, he had discovered that a wolverine had found the trapline, and (as it turned out) had stolen all the rest of the marten--11 of them on Friday, in addition to two earlier in the week. A wolverine looks like a small bear with a bad attitude and this one (a 30# female according to Roger--he didn't tell me her name--) had followed the trapline for 10 miles or more. She chewed the dead martens down from the traps,took them out from the trail and buried them in the snow. By the time I got going again, the sun was pretty well gone, so Roger told me to just head back to camp while he followed checking the rest of the traps. Well, my headlight went out almost immediately, so most of the trip back to camp was a matter of crashing through brush in the moonlight, trying to keep track of the trail and avoid most of the bigger trees that were close to the trail. Close in this regard means about 1/4" off the trail. Sometimes the skiis touch trees on both sides, or worse, bounce off a tree into another one. One of the keys is to keep your knees tucked well in to the machine. (Don't Ask Me How I kNow This-- DAMHINT for short) The next day (Saturday) I stayed in camp, fixing on the Bravo (new piston rings and recoil starter assembly plus another cylinder and piston) while Roger went back out with heavy duty traps to deal with the wolverine. He's a very patient person, BTW--now an angry word about any of this, even though he lost about $800 or $900 worth of furs. The weather started cooling off on Saturday, so that by the time he got "home" it was -35 at camp. We came back to Galena on Sunday at about -40 degrees. The return trip went fine, with a couple minor exceptions--the weather was apparently too cold for the new windshield on my snowgo, so it shattered when trees and brush hit it--I was leaving bits of clear plastic on the trail all day long. And at one point, the string on my heavy gloves (remember gradeschool when Mom tied your gloves on?) caught on a tree and tried to yank me off the snowgo by my neck. It broke (the string, not my neck), but none too soon. Evenings in camp were, well, like evenings in camp. I really like that kinda stuff--long conversations and listening to the radio while Roger skinned martens and worked on the furs. Roger is a fundamental Christian and a political conservative, and I'm a rabid liberal, anarchist, and atheist. All of the conversation was polite and respectful even so, which is quite unusual in my experience. He is also one of our in-laws (brother to Tam's husband Andrew), so I got a lot of his personal and family history. I hope to go out there again someday, but trapping for a living probably isn't in my future. PK Glad to be home for a while. It warmed up yesterday to -20; seems almost like spring. ******** Here's the favor. Roger told me that there was a National Geographic article about trapping, including pictures of him sitting in that very cabin skinning martens. It was published in 1959. If anyone has access to National Geos that far back, I would really like to get a copy of the article. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157695 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-03 15:07:59 Subject: Refurbishing files (long) Greetings all from warm, humid NSW Australia, I found this article in the May 12th 1955 Model Engineer magazine (I'm a tad behind in my reading backlog!!!) Was sumbitted by 'Bud' of Oakland Ca. 'Procure some sulphuric acid of about 1.250 specific gravity........... Procure an earthenware or glass pan large enough so that the files can be placed flat on the bottom.......... Clean the files with a file card or wire brush. I use a needle to flick off any metal particles stuck in the grooves. Place the files in the pan and pour in the 1.250 S.G. acid solution until they are covered. Or the acid can be poured in first ....... Very shortly small bubbles will form on the files as the acid eats into the grooves. If this does not happen within five minutes the acid is too strong. Simply pour in more water (!!!!!!) and stir. The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. Leave the files in for a couple of hours and then feel them to see if they are sharp. Very dull files that are almost smoothe should be left in for eight hours. When the files are really sharp, remove from acid and wash thoroughly in water. When they are dry they will have a slightly brownish tinge and unless given a coat of oil will rust rapidly................ (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are dangerous) Bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) solution will neutralise sulphuric acid. 1 tablespoon per quart of water solution is useful. The 1.250 S.G. solution can be reused. Pour the acid solution out of the pan into a glass jar leaving the black residue in the pan to be washed out..... Do not take files out too soon. It is better to leave them in too long than not long enough. They may feel sharp but are actually not etched deep, and if taken out too soon will become dull after a short time. After you have sharpened the same file for 20 years (!!!!!) it will become so thin that you can bend it around in a circle (!!!!!!) ' So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid sharpening of files. I make this disclaimer:- I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! Peter B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157696 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-03 15:38:14 Subject: Re: saw restoration and sharpening - info and tips BugBear writes: > In a bid to exploit modern technology to aid > ancient tools, I've created some printable files > to assist in controlling fleam angles > when filing teeth, and controlling tooth size/spacing > when re-toothing a saw. Galoots everywhere will, I believe, be extremely grateful to BugBear for a long time to come for his discriminating compilation of the best that there is out there in the ether on this saw sharpening business. Many thanks are also due for the teeth templates, one of which will be put to use shortly to recut the teeth of a nice little 12" Swedish Jarnbirger ab Orsa backsaw whose teeth I mangled some time ago. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157697 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-03 10:32:37 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... L.A. Root wrote: > Spike, > > I've been considering Tom Law's saw sharpening videos just for that > reason. If anyone has watched them, they do a good job of showing what > he does? Yes. An excellent job. But there's very little exposition on the why he's doing what he's doing. If you read Pete Taran's write up a coupla' times AND THEN watch Tom Law's video, you'll be golden. Theory and understanding are very helpful if you want to vary your approach. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157698 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-03 07:41:00 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? --JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Peter B Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:08 PM To: 'Old Tools List' Subject: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) Greetings all from warm, humid NSW Australia, I found this article in the May 12th 1955 Model Engineer magazine (I'm a tad behind in my reading backlog!!!) Was sumbitted by 'Bud' of Oakland Ca. 'Procure some sulphuric acid of about 1.250 specific gravity........... Procure an earthenware or glass pan large enough so that the files can be placed flat on the bottom.......... Clean the files with a file card or wire brush. I use a needle to flick off any metal particles stuck in the grooves. Place the files in the pan and pour in the 1.250 S.G. acid solution until they are covered. Or the acid can be poured in first ....... Very shortly small bubbles will form on the files as the acid eats into the grooves. If this does not happen within five minutes the acid is too strong. Simply pour in more water (!!!!!!) and stir. The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. Leave the files in for a couple of hours and then feel them to see if they are sharp. Very dull files that are almost smoothe should be left in for eight hours. When the files are really sharp, remove from acid and wash thoroughly in water. When they are dry they will have a slightly brownish tinge and unless given a coat of oil will rust rapidly................ (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are dangerous) Bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) solution will neutralise sulphuric acid. 1 tablespoon per quart of water solution is useful. The 1.250 S.G. solution can be reused. Pour the acid solution out of the pan into a glass jar leaving the black residue in the pan to be washed out..... Do not take files out too soon. It is better to leave them in too long than not long enough. They may feel sharp but are actually not etched deep, and if taken out too soon will become dull after a short time. After you have sharpened the same file for 20 years (!!!!!) it will become so thin that you can bend it around in a circle (!!!!!!) ' So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid sharpening of files. I make this disclaimer:- I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! Peter B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157699 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-03 05:11:20 Subject: Fwd: AUSTIN HARDWOODS OLD TOOL SWAP MEET Self explanatory message follows. Begin forwarded message: > From: laura@t... > Date: March 3, 2006 2:15:00 AM PST > To: Laura Pitney > Subject: AUSTIN HARDWOODS OLD TOOL SWAP MEET > > Just a note to remind you that March 11 is the next Austin Hardwoods > Old Tool Swap Meet from 6AM-Noon.  The address is 610 N Santiago in > Santa Ana, CA (across from the Train Station).  The swap meet will be > held rain or shine (there's plenty of covered space in case it > rains).  >   > Anyone Can Sell.  Spaces are $10.00.  If you only have a few tools, > you can put them on my table. > Before you set up in the parking lot, make sure Drew is there.  If the > weather is good, we may be setting up in the dirt area in front of > Austin.  If you are coming from Northern CA or elsewhere, there is a > good antique area with lots of shops near Austin (Orange Circle) and > the Car Show is the next day at Vet Stadium in Long Beach (user tools > show up there in between all the car stuff).  > For More Information about the swap meet & Orange Circle, contact Drew > Shellenbarger 714-450-2365.  >   > For those of you who missed Anderson Plywood because of the treat of > rain, we had the event and had plenty of room for all the dealers to > set up with all of their tools.  John Arenson opened up several > spacious indoor areas for us to set up in.  We also had plenty of > buyers and it only rained for 15 minutes in Culver City.  Sales were > great and everyone had a good time. >   > Hope to see you at Austin Hardwoods.  Don't ya dare miss it! > Laura  > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157700 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-03 08:27:55 Subject: Wooden Plough Planes Gentle List, I sometimes see screw- or wedge-arm wooden planes with a nicker that are labeled as plough planes, whereas most of the time such wooden planes labeled as plough planes do not have nickers. Is one category mis-labeled or are both types plough planes? Thanks for your help. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157701 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-03 08:44:20 Subject: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... Hey Jim and Jim, J.D. was looking for help with sizing the screw on a Stanley 271 (wee router plane, Jeff) and the Millrat replied: >I just checked mine. The threads are 10-28... Isn't that a standard thread? I'm afraid it's not. 10-28 taps and dies can be had, but I've got another idea. It sounds to me like you're just lookin' to get yer routah back into service, right J.D.? If so, the hole can be retapped to 1/4-28 which is a standard size. Most hardware stores will have taps and thumbscrews in this size. Good luck. -Andy in Windsor, VT ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157702 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-03 08:50:35 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) JD responds to Peter B's tutorial on acid sharpening of files by asking: > Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? Well, any auto parts store should be able to fix you up. Flooded lead acid batteries use sulfuric acid for the electrolyte. Straight sulfuric acid has a specific gravity of 1.8, so you can add distilled water to it until it reaches 1.25...just buy a decent hygrometer and pay attention to the temperature compensation chart. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157703 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-03 08:55:24 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) Obviously, that should be a hydrometer, not hygrometer (measures mositure content of a gas).. Charlie -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Rodgers Charles Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:51 AM To: James DuPrie; Peter B; Old Tools List Subject: RE: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) JD responds to Peter B's tutorial on acid sharpening of files by asking: > Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? Well, any auto parts store should be able to fix you up. Flooded lead acid batteries use sulfuric acid for the electrolyte. Straight sulfuric acid has a specific gravity of 1.8, so you can add distilled water to it until it reaches 1.25...just buy a decent hygrometer and pay attention to the temperature compensation chart. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157704 ---- From: brian_welch@h... Date: 2006-03-03 09:32:26 Subject: Re: Addis History and Carving Tool Imprint Overview (Long) Gary, Thanks for that great compilation and overview of the Addis family. What could be more fun than researching edge tool manufacturers? Just last week, after Bugbear posted the link to the Addis history on the Hawley website, I stumbled across the online photo collection of the Sheffield Local Studies Library http://www.picturesheffield.com/database_search.php >From this page, click on the letter "E" and then scroll down to the categories "Edge Tool Manufacturers", "Edge Tool Production", and "Edge Tools." There are a bunch of cool pictures (including one of the Newbould factory*--hear that Charlie--are you out there?--and a portrait of William Butcher**). This one in particular caught my eye: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi- bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyv- al=sheff.refno=u02683 It is entitled "Nos 27-37, St. Thomas Street, after the demolition of adjoining back to back houses on the right. No. 27, (on left) premises of J.B. Addis & Sons Ltd., Edge Tool Manufacturers." It does not say when the picture was made, but I'm guessing it is after 1911, when the research trail started to go a little cold (I HATE when that happens!) Hope this is a helpful data point, and thanks again to Gary (and Don, of course!). Brian Welch Worcester, MA who has been spending his lunch breaks in the Harvard Business School library historical collections for the past few weeks. *Newbould factory: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi- bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyv- al=sheff.refno=s09773 **Butcher portrait: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi- bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyv- al=sheff.refno=u02736 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157705 ---- From: "Christopher J. Scholz" Date: 2006-03-03 06:54:49 Subject: Re: Whatsit Korean Plane Followup on your Korean plane: Manuel, a friend of mine who resides in Japan writes: "According to the kanji it says sth like “high speed, high quality plane, and tempered steel blade” My colleagues here tell me that the fast ones are for final smoothing, and they point out that they are used as the saws, in the opposite direction than the western ones. I will ask someone about the adjustment… Manuel" I'd be happy to forward any other questions to Manuel... ---- Manuel, here is are a few questions that came up in the oldools list: This is a plane that a list member picked up in Korea. This person is asking what kind of plane this is (final smoothing or rough planing). He also asks how to remove the plane iron and how to adjust it. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3442 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3444 Chris --- "Christopher J. Scholz" wrote: > Pete, > > Characters on the blade (image > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3442) > Translate to into: > High speed steel > > Characters on plane (image > http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3444) > Translate into: > Brand name: Iron horse > > Translation of Chinese characters on Korean plane > courtesy of Prof. H. Huang at Purdue University in > West Lafayett, IN > http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~huang29/ > > Regards > > Chris survivor of a 0.001" of snows in Atlanta, GA > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157706 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-03 10:06:51 Subject: RE: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... All right! Now I'm ready to get going. If I can't find the right size screw (per Jim), I'll pick up the taps (per Andy) and hopefully be back in action. Should I be concerned about tapping from the current .180 to .25? is this likely to weaken the casting too much? Thanks --JD James J.B.N. DuPrie -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy) Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:44 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: [OldTools] Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... Hey Jim and Jim, J.D. was looking for help with sizing the screw on a Stanley 271 (wee router plane, Jeff) and the Millrat replied: >I just checked mine. The threads are 10-28... Isn't that a standard thread? I'm afraid it's not. 10-28 taps and dies can be had, but I've got another idea. It sounds to me like you're just lookin' to get yer routah back into service, right J.D.? If so, the hole can be retapped to 1/4-28 which is a standard size. Most hardware stores will have taps and thumbscrews in this size. Good luck. -Andy in Windsor, VT ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157707 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-03 15:19:19 Subject: Re: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... James DuPrie wrote: > All right! Now I'm ready to get going. If I can't find the right size screw > (per Jim), I'll pick up the taps (per Andy) and hopefully be back in action. > Should I be concerned about tapping from the current .180 to .25? is this > likely to weaken the casting too much? Looking at my thread data, 28 tpi isn't common. Up in diameter from the measured #10-28, we have * #12-28, which is a UNF standard, at .216" * 7/32-28 which is a BSF standard at .2188" I don't suppose you'll be able to get BSF taps in the USA; they're not even common here! * 1/4-28 is also UNF, at .250" BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157708 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-03-03 10:55:21 Subject: Recommendations for honing compound[s] GGs, Once again I crawl from under the porch and into the light, seeking wisdom. What micron/grit honing compound[s] would you recommend for sharpening? Are multiple levels of abrasion necessary, or do you folks just use the same micron for all purposes? I see some advertised as "0.5 micron" and others as "medium" (big help, huh?), or green vs yellow. Since I don't have my handy decoder ring which converts green to a micron size, would you folks please share with me your thoughts? Any recommended manufacturers? Thanks, Steve, in Howell, NJ, about to take a dive into hard felt wheel sharpening ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157709 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-03 10:31:59 Subject: Neat tool for knifemakers or others doing inlay This came from my Art metal list. What a cool idea. http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html Most respectfully, Mike Rock ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157710 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-03 11:29:53 Subject: RE: Recommendations for honing compound[s] I think that in 3M language gray/black is 5 micron, yellow/green is 1 micron and whiteish is .3 micron Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:55 AM > To: oldtools > Subject: [OldTools] Recommendations for honing compound[s] > > GGs, > > Once again I crawl from under the porch and into the light, > seeking wisdom. > > What micron/grit honing compound[s] would you recommend for > sharpening? > Are multiple levels of abrasion necessary, or do you folks > just use the same micron for all purposes? I see some > advertised as "0.5 micron" > and others as "medium" (big help, huh?), or green vs yellow. > Since I don't have my handy decoder ring which converts green > to a micron size, would you folks please share with me your > thoughts? Any recommended manufacturers? > > Thanks, > Steve, in Howell, NJ, about to take a dive into hard felt > wheel sharpening > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157711 ---- From: "Clay Risenhoover" Date: 2006-03-03 09:54:23 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files (long) Don't know if this helps any, but Electrolyte Grade sulfuric acid is 1.265 SG usually, so it wouldn't take much water to cut it. This is the sulfuric acid used as electrolyte in lead acid batteries like car batteries. I've never tried to buy any though... -Clay -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of James DuPrie Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:41 AM To: 'Peter B'; 'Old Tools List' Subject: RE: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) Way cool! Now where does one go about scoring sulfuric acid with a SG of 1.250? --JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Peter B Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:08 PM To: 'Old Tools List' Subject: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) Greetings all from warm, humid NSW Australia, I found this article in the May 12th 1955 Model Engineer magazine (I'm a tad behind in my reading backlog!!!) Was sumbitted by 'Bud' of Oakland Ca. 'Procure some sulphuric acid of about 1.250 specific gravity........... Procure an earthenware or glass pan large enough so that the files can be placed flat on the bottom.......... Clean the files with a file card or wire brush. I use a needle to flick off any metal particles stuck in the grooves. Place the files in the pan and pour in the 1.250 S.G. acid solution until they are covered. Or the acid can be poured in first ....... Very shortly small bubbles will form on the files as the acid eats into the grooves. If this does not happen within five minutes the acid is too strong. Simply pour in more water (!!!!!!) and stir. The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. Leave the files in for a couple of hours and then feel them to see if they are sharp. Very dull files that are almost smoothe should be left in for eight hours. When the files are really sharp, remove from acid and wash thoroughly in water. When they are dry they will have a slightly brownish tinge and unless given a coat of oil will rust rapidly................ (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are dangerous) Bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) solution will neutralise sulphuric acid. 1 tablespoon per quart of water solution is useful. The 1.250 S.G. solution can be reused. Pour the acid solution out of the pan into a glass jar leaving the black residue in the pan to be washed out..... Do not take files out too soon. It is better to leave them in too long than not long enough. They may feel sharp but are actually not etched deep, and if taken out too soon will become dull after a short time. After you have sharpened the same file for 20 years (!!!!!) it will become so thin that you can bend it around in a circle (!!!!!!) ' So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid sharpening of files. I make this disclaimer:- I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! Peter B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157712 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-03 11:29:06 Subject: WTB Plow Plane Irons GG`s, Venturing into the world of plow planes. Looking for a set of irons. Prefer Sandusky but others are welcome so long as they match in tang dimension. Whatca got hidden away ? Sure is bright and sunny out here. Not so damp ether. John Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. Where the sun is shinning but it is still cold. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157713 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-03 08:44:40 Subject: Re: Re: Stanley 271 router plane help request.... How about a metric tap. Don't have my tables in front of me, but I think a metric 6 -0.9 is the stanley replacement for the 14-20 or whatever hold the fence to the body on a 78. paul womack wrote: > James DuPrie wrote: > >> All right! Now I'm ready to get going. If I can't find the right size >> screw >> (per Jim), I'll pick up the taps (per Andy) and hopefully be back in >> action. >> Should I be concerned about tapping from the current .180 to .25? is >> this >> likely to weaken the casting too much? > > > Looking at my thread data, 28 tpi isn't common. > > Up in diameter from the measured #10-28, we have > > * #12-28, which is a UNF standard, at .216" > > * 7/32-28 which is a BSF standard at .2188" > > I don't suppose you'll be able to get BSF > taps in the USA; they're not even common here! > > * 1/4-28 is also UNF, at .250" > -- Kirk Eppler (650) 225-3911 Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157714 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-03 09:46:34 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes John and all, On 03 Mar., Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > I sometimes see screw- or wedge-arm wooden planes with a nicker > that are labeled as plough planes, whereas most of the time such > wooden planes labeled as plough planes do not have nickers. Is > one category mis-labeled or are both types plough planes? Perhaps the nickered planes are sash filletsters? Here's an (already sold) example on Martin Donnelly's site: http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_627/130871.htm Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157715 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-03 16:53:20 Subject: Re: Neat tool for knifemakers or others doing inlay Mike Rock wrote: > This came from my Art metal list. > What a cool idea. > http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html Mentioned in "Stan Shaw Master Culter, The Story Of A Sheffield Craftsman by Geoffrey Tweedale." He cited this as the gadget referred to when people said "In Sheffield they have a drill that will make square holes" BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157716 ---- From: marc.wolfe@g... Date: 2006-03-03 12:12:09 Subject: Marc A. Wolfe/CAI/CO/GSA/GOV is out of the office. I will be out of the office starting Fri 03/03/2006 and will not return until Sat 03/04/2006. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact my supervisor, Phil Klokis, if you need immediate assistance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157717 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-03 09:32:39 Subject: Re: Parsers??? > What a cool idea. > http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html Mike, Are you kidding me?? I love this! Just flobbles around in the hole until it's done? Wish I had a slightly closer look at the business end of the cutter Spectacular, or I guess I should say......... Brilliant! yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157718 ---- From: DaveMacArt@a... Date: 2006-03-03 12:47:13 Subject: Re 217 screws You don't have to re-tap the 271 . Stanley used 10/28 screws many places. 190,191,192, 78 depth stops, 140 side plates on and on. My personal favorite source is stanley butt gauges. They are common, usually cost less than a dollar at a flea market and you get 2 10/28 screws. I just tried one on a 271 and other than having a small extra shoulder it even looks right. If you don't have one I will send you one free. Dave MacArthur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157719 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-03 13:17:07 Subject: RE: Recommendations for honing compound[s] Sorry all, these are the colors of their papers by grit, not of their honing compounds. Might be the same, but I don't know. Jim - slinking away sheepishly and hoping someone else can help > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim Bellina > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:30 AM > To: 'Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS'; 'oldtools' > Subject: RE: [OldTools] Recommendations for honing compound[s] > > I think that in 3M language gray/black is 5 micron, > yellow/green is 1 micron and whiteish is .3 micron > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf > Of Shine, > > Stephen C (Steve), ALABS > > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:55 AM > > To: oldtools > > Subject: [OldTools] Recommendations for honing compound[s] > > > > GGs, > > > > Once again I crawl from under the porch and into the light, seeking > > wisdom. > > > > What micron/grit honing compound[s] would you recommend for > > sharpening? > > Are multiple levels of abrasion necessary, or do you folks just use > > the same micron for all purposes? I see some advertised as "0.5 > > micron" > > and others as "medium" (big help, huh?), or green vs yellow. > > Since I don't have my handy decoder ring which converts green to a > > micron size, would you folks please share with me your > thoughts? Any > > recommended manufacturers? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve, in Howell, NJ, about to take a dive into hard felt wheel > > sharpening > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157720 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-03 12:40:14 Subject: Re: Parsers??? Don't know Scott, but I AM building one of these widgets. That flobbles around! What a word!! Anyhow, I am making one. Done enough scrimshaw and bone carving to see some utility here. And just for the heck of it. I don't know if it will be accurate enough for fine inlay work, kinda doubt that. But to make the grave for an escutchion that gets pressed in, it should work. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157721 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-03 14:02:33 Subject: pictures from tool steel catalog I posted some pages from my tool catalog on galoot central. I'm not so good with pictures but I think you could print and read them. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3601 An inquiring mind was asking about this stuff earlier this week. If it's useful I can post more? Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157722 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-03 14:20:52 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes Hi Norm, Yep, that appears to be the case. Thus I can conclude that what is sometimes labeled as a 'Plough Plane' is really a sash filletser. This may be a silly question, but is a sash filletster also a 'plough plane'? Cheers, John -----Original Message----- From: Norm Wood To: oldtools@r... Sent: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:46:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Plough Planes John and all, On 03 Mar., Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > I sometimes see screw- or wedge-arm wooden planes with a nicker that > are labeled as plough planes, whereas most of the time such wooden planes > labeled as plough planes do not have nickers. Is one category mis-labeled or are > both types plough planes? Perhaps the nickered planes are sash filletsters? Here's an (already sold) example on Martin Donnelly's site: http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_627/130871.htm Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157723 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-03 13:46:22 Subject: RE: Wooden Plough Planes Dunbar has a pretty clear explanation of the difference between a plough plane and a sash fillister. First, a plough is designed to make a groove anywhere on the face of a board, whereas a fillister is designed to create a rabbet. The presence or absence of knickers simply makes the plane better or worse for cross-grain work (technically dado plane territory). However, what makes a sash fillister a SASH fillister is how the plane is designed to be used. The fence on a standard fillister registers against the front edge of the work - that is, the edge facing you. If you stepped forward, it would bump into your stomach. A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. Never having stuck window sash, my understanding is purely academic. So, to sum up, a plough makes a groove on the face of the board. A fillister makes a groove at the corner of a board (rabbet) registering against the near edge, and a sash fillister makes a rabbet, registering against the far edge of the board. Whew. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157724 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-03 13:27:10 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes John, Rob and all, On 03 Mar., filletsters multiplied like rabbets as Robert Weber wrote: ... > A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge > AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being > done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. > Never having stuck window sash, my understanding is purely academic. Just to add a few more details (not of my own making, however), Mssrs. May, Cramer and Taggert put forth a discussion of fillisters/filletsters in this thread from 2003: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=117081 where Mr. May describes the utility of registering off the far side of the work. Norm in Fort Collins, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157725 ---- From: "Andrew F in Australia" Date: 2006-03-04 07:54:19 Subject: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing files (long) Hi All, In Peter's original post re: sulphuric acid, he mentioned the following *critical* points which appeared to be missed in later posts: Subject: [OldTools] Refurbishing files (long) >The entire secret of sharpening files is to use weak sulphuric acid, >since weak acid eats steel, whereas strong acid does not. [Note - not really an issue here, as you need >98% purity acid to avoid eating steel, but I'd stick with their one part neat sulphuric acid to two parts water, or thereabouts.] [As a separate aside, SG1.25 sulphuric acid is not really a 'weak' mix of sulphuric - as others mentioned, its battery acid strength] Now to highlight the safety warnings ****************************************************** > (Safety with acid mentioned here re pouring acid into water not water > into acid, it will eat clothes with the exception of wool, fumes are > dangerous) ****************************************************** > So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid > sharpening of files. > I make this disclaimer:- > I have merely written in part someone else's ideas on the subject. > I take no responsibility for any accident, mishap or injury caused to > anyone using this information. ACID IS DANGEROUS!!!! > Peter B Just to reiterate, it is definitely not a wise idea to add water to the acid - it generates sufficient heat to boil the water, resulting in instantaneously exploding acid baths. You always add the acid to the water (or other diluent) Or, as I was taught in high school and uni, and then went on to teach others: ******************************************************************** ** ** ** May his rest be long and placid, he added water to the acid ** ** ** ******************************************************************** Best regards, and take care, Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 1/03/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157726 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-03 14:05:17 Subject: froe handling i just received a fantastic blacksmith-made froe from bruce z., and i have a question about handling it. rather than being conical (wide on the sharp blade side) so it can be slid on and off of a handle, it's actually waisted, with the waist about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom (sharp blade side), flaring less on the bottom 1/3 than on the top. should i just carve the handle so it slip fits the size of the waist, flaring to accept the bottom 1/3 so it doesn't slip off? or make a "permanent" handle? and how long? i have a nice hunk of ash from roger van maren (thanks to both roger and bruce!!) i thought to use, it's about 16" long. otherwise i have a nice length of persimmon branch that might work... best, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157727 ---- From: "Tom Reading" Date: 2006-03-03 17:18:58 Subject: WTB - Bed Rock #608 frog and/or parts Gentle Galoots, I'm in the process of restoring to usable condition a Bed Rock #608 jointer. I need a few parts. At a minimum I need two "frog pins". These are the metal pins that go down through the top of the frog and fit into holes bored into the plane body. However, my preference would be a whole Bed Rock #608 frog complete with pins, frog clamping screws and adjusting screw. The frog I currently have has been modified and while it will probably work I'd prefer an unmodified frog. I'm fairly desperate - I'm well into the process of building my Roubo bench and I'm definitely going to need a functional #8 to flatten this beast. Thanks to all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157728 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-03 14:46:23 Subject: Carving In case you haven't noticed it yet, Wiktor has started putting up all the Chris Pye carving tutorials on the FineTools website. Chris Pye has given permission for this. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/ This material is in pdf form. Everything you ever wanted to know about carving, and more. The original material could be downloaded from Chris's web site, but it came as Windows .exe format which cannot be read by a Mac computer, so I could never read it. This is good stuff! Thanks a bunch, Wiktor! Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157729 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-03 18:02:56 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3 In a message dated 3/3/2006 10:12:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, oldtools- request@r... writes: >I just received a package with a saw I purchased. >TACONY SAW CO. on the etch... Medallion - Warranted Superior. >The design of the etch is very similar to other saws that Disston >produced for 3rd parties. >Never head of, never seen any literature on this company. Wictor, Check out this link for a pic of a Tacony saw and possibly a link to a gentleman who may know more about them from a different porch. FYI, Tacony was a neighborhood of Philadelphia and the predominant business there for years was Disston, so I have to believe this was a B-brand of theirs. Simonds Abrasives' plant was there, as well, at the corner of Fraley St & Tacony St. Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157730 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-03 15:04:37 Subject: Re: Carving FWIW... I agree with Jim. I've been a fan of Chris Pye's books, ebooks, and newletter for a long time. He's very thorough in both his work and teaching. --- James Thompson wrote: > In case you haven't noticed it yet, Wiktor has > started putting up all the Chris Pye carving >tutorials on http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/ << SNIP >> Good work Wik. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157731 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-03 15:21:55 Subject: Re: Neat tool for knifemakers or others doing inlay Okay this is way cool. I knew the that "Two-legged Parsers" existed, but I never had the process explained to me before. Sounds like a new project! Thanks for pointing this out Mike. Steve in Dallas http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157732 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-03 19:05:30 Subject: Re: Refurbishing files Peter B wrote: > So, dear readers, that's it, all you ever wanted to know about acid > sharpening > of files. GG Is this how Boggs does it? Ed Minch Got a 12" Disston handsaw, probably out of a child's toolbox, for $5 today ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157733 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-04 00:16:46 Subject: Re: Parsers??? Genius. Yup...I'll be making one too. Thanks. -Wayne Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157734 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-03 16:49:03 Subject: Disston 122 Today at an estate sale I found a Disston 112. Curious about the value, I looked on the Bay. There are none for sale, and none showing in Completed Items. Are these that unusual? What about approximate value for a run of the mill 112? Did I do good for only $3? MEEP MEEP!! Is that a gloat, or what? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157735 ---- From: Mike Rock Date: 2006-03-03 19:24:55 Subject: Parser Got this reply from the Artmetal group. Seems we got beat out, an artist saw the Woodwright with it. > I've seen it in operation on "The Woodwrights shop" on PBS. A pretty cool > tool, and it does a nice job, very fast. Just a few pulls of the cord and > the insert is ready to go. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157736 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-03 17:42:59 Subject: Re: Refurbishing files Ed Heavens No Boggs does it in a precision manner with a high pressure abrasive slurry. Smooth, even, bright sharp. Unbelievably worth the money. The best scenario I could see for acid bath would be in "accidental" sharpening. Plunk n pray??? It's a drag postage will be fairly painful for you shipping to Boggs on the west coast. Don't overlook the flat rate post office boxes! Of course, high shipping to get your files and rasps sharpened is probably the only discomfort anyone on the east coast ever experiences over the entire subject of old tools. Pile of mint saws for peanuts Tom,.... Steve's $2 table,.......... Todd's ever salted wounds............indeed. :-) yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157737 ---- From: "Tony Zaffuto" Date: 2006-03-03 20:55:25 Subject: RE: Refurbishing files Scott and others, I've shipped files and rasps to Boggs several times from good ole' PA. Shipping was very reasonable each way. Course, when I shipped stuff it was generally 15 to 18 assorted files and rasps per shipment. Think the bill was $35 (roughly) each time. Very, very reasonable considering all files and rasps were better than new upon return. Highly recommended and lots safer than the acid trip. Tony Z. -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of scott grandstaff Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:43 PM To: porch Subject: Re: [OldTools] Refurbishing files Ed Heavens No Boggs does it in a precision manner with a high pressure abrasive slurry. Smooth, even, bright sharp. Unbelievably worth the money. The best scenario I could see for acid bath would be in "accidental" sharpening. Plunk n pray??? It's a drag postage will be fairly painful for you shipping to Boggs on the west coast. Don't overlook the flat rate post office boxes! Of course, high shipping to get your files and rasps sharpened is probably the only discomfort anyone on the east coast ever experiences over the entire subject of old tools. Pile of mint saws for peanuts Tom,.... Steve's $2 table,.......... Todd's ever salted wounds............indeed. :-) yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157738 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-03 22:24:59 Subject: Goodell Mfg Mitre Box Advertisement Fellow Mitre Box Users, I scanned the below Goodell manufacturing advertisement which Wiktor has now posted. Notice this is Goodell Manufacturing, not Goodell Pratt. I have 3 of these boxes, all a little different. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/Goodell-Pratt/Goodell-Pratt-MiterBox-ne.pdf When the H*ck is Spring gonna get her. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157739 ---- From: lunytools@a... Date: 2006-03-03 23:22:15 Subject: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Patina has their show Saturday March 11 in Damascus Maryland. The show starts at 8am and tailgating starts around 5, dress very warm and bring your flashlight. In the tailgating there will be alot of user stuff, wood and metalworking, there is a guy who comes with a big truck with all metalworking tools. They also have an auction after the show which is very good. All you guy who have been there chip in and fill in the blanks. Slav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157740 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-04 00:26:10 Subject: wooden jointer SWMBO's Valentine's Day present is finally done. I finished it a couple days ago. Yesterday I tried to make a new handle for my straight razor. (Yep, Bad Andy shaves with a straight razor). I ripped out some nice walnut scales and put it all together. Then I went to peen the pins that hold the end of the handle together and split the walnut. Got to make a new one. Softer pins next time. Well today I decided it was time to redo the mouth on the wooden jointer that was giving me so much trouble. So I said a little prayer that I would not destroy it and started in. Made a little maple patch and glued it in place earlier today. Got back from the Men's BBQ at church and SWMBO and the GIT had taken a friend to the doctor way over in Ann Arbor so I had the house all to myself. My prayer worked beacause I now have a wooden jointer that works beautifully. All this time the problem was the big mouth. I thought this would take days to finish not a few hours. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157741 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-04 05:57:58 Subject: Acid and Files A little help from the chemists on the Porch please. What is the relationship between Sulphuric acid and Muratic acid. I ask because I have a swimming pool and thus have Muratic around all the time. Can it be used to sharpen files? Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157742 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-04 06:20:00 Subject: Re: Different View on Saw Sharpening ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Lineback" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: Re: Different View on Saw Sharpening > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Lineback" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:12 AM > Subject: Different View on Saw Sharpening > > >> Wendy >> There has been some excellent advice passed out in this discussion but as >> some one who has been there let me suggest this. Once you have the >> basics; a sharpening vice, a set and the right size file then jump in and >> try. Get a rough idea of rake and fleam and all that other from Pete'site >> or wherever but then start. Get an eight point crosscut (bigger teeth are >> easier to see) joint it, oops forgot you need a jointer. set it and file >> away. If you have a dull but good saw the difference will amaze you. As >> long as you keep the tooth height the same and get the set evened out the >> difference will amaze you. You can refine your technique as you go but >> jump in. You will learn more faster by practice than reading. Saw >> sharpening is a good example of paralyses by analysis. >> Steve >> Although you might not want to start with that minty D-12 panel saw > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157743 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-04 21:37:35 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Steve Lineback wrote: > A little help from the chemists on the Porch please. What is the > relationship between Sulphuric acid and Muratic acid. Hi Steve, Muriatic Acid is another name for Hydrochloric Acid, so there is no relationship between Sulphuric Acid and Muriatic Acid. -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157744 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-04 07:17:38 Subject: Re: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3 In a message dated 3/3/2006 6:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, KWiktor@m... writes: >And where is the link? Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com Oops!!! Here's the link - http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=read- _count&om=331&forum=DCForumID15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157745 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-04 07:30:57 Subject: Re: Acid and Files My experience with HCL is that it is very corrosive and should be kept away from tools. My local hardware dealer has a separate storage shed out in the back corner of the lumber yard to keep it in. That's how serious a problem it is to him. In a former life I worked in a plant that made it. The stuff eats everything metalic. It is / was used in metal etching. You can put a pretty design on a gun or knife with it. This would be a galoot method. Modern method would use lazer or electric processes. Once it gets on metal it needs to be soaked in a baking soda solution to kill it. > > A little help from the chemists on the Porch please. What is the > > relationship between Sulphuric acid and Muratic acid. > > Hi Steve, Muriatic Acid is another name for Hydrochloric Acid, so there > is no relationship between Sulphuric Acid and Muriatic Acid. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157746 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-04 08:49:42 Subject: Re: Acid and Files I have a good bit of HCl in my lab. Unfortunately we do not have an acid cabinet made of wood (a good galooty project if I ever saw one, they cost upwards of $1000 when purchased from a distributor). So I store it in a metal cabinet. The combination of fumes from HCL and Butyric acid have stripped all the paint and a good number of layers of metal from the cabinets. I'm just glad the cabinet is under the fume hood, so the fumes go out the building and don't float around long. Someday I will address the issue, probably in another 30 years, time permitting. Having seen the capabilities of both HCL and H2SO4 on a number of occasions, I would be very careful with either when using them for etching or tool sharpening. I would consider them as potentially dangerous (or more so) as a badly set up electrolysis bath. As such, I won't be playing around with either of these acids in my basement anytime soon. Nathaniel >My experience with HCL is that it is very corrosive and should be >kept away from tools. My local hardware dealer has a separate >storage shed out in the back corner of the lumber yard to keep >it in. That's how serious a problem it is to him. > >In a former life I worked in a plant that made it. The stuff eats >everything metalic. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157747 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-04 07:50:04 Subject: RE: Wooden Plough Planes Robert Weber wrote: >However, what makes a sash fillister a SASH fillister is how the plane is >designed to be used. The fence on a standard fillister registers against the >front edge of the work - that is, the edge facing you. ... > >A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge >AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being >done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. In part, this may come down to a matter of semantics, but in use, the fence of the sash fillister registers on the near/front edge of the munton/mullion being rabbeted/rebated. The difference from the moving fillister is that, through the agency of the armed fence, it reaches in past the moulding and fillet, and cuts the rabbet/rebate at the far edge (or edge away from the worker). The moving fillister cuts the rabbet/rebate at the same edge it is registered on. This accomplishes two things. By registering both the sash (profile) plane and the sash fillister plane on the front face/edge of the sash member, the profile and rabbet/rebate on every member are the same width/depth from the face, so that any slight discrepancies in the depth of the sash members can be accounted for at the, flat, back face. These very minor discrepancies can be removed without altering the depth of the moulding or the relationship of the rabbets/rebates. The other thing this accomplishes is that both the moulding and the rabbet/rebate can be run in the same direction. If the material has been carefully selected so that this is the best direction for planing each member, this should result in the cleanest surfaces straight from both planes. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157748 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-04 08:12:50 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Does there exist anywhere a reasonable list of contacts for galootish events (such as Patina, LFOD, the various annual larger swap meets, localized club events, etc..). Several folks dropped me a line when we first put the calendar up on Galoot Central to join Rob's wonderful link farm but it would be useful to be able to populate it with regular info from the sources since unless the event is reasonably local to SE Wisconsin, the best info I'll have is gleaned from list postings .. Guidance from any who regularly follow and/or attend events most appreciated! cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin .. working yet another weekend...... On 3/3/06, lunytools@a... wrote: > Patina has their show Saturday March 11 in Damascus Maryland. The > show starts at 8am and tailgating starts around 5, dress very warm and > bring your flashlight. In the tailgating there will be alot of user > stuff, wood and metalworking, there is a guy who comes with a big truck > with all metalworking tools. They also have an auction after the show > which is very good. All you guy who have been there chip in and fill > in the blanks. > > Slav > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157749 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-04 11:31:59 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... Robert, Thanks for the cite to that helpful review. Paul, thanks for the comment and the review! If Tom Law is at Patina again this year I'll look for his video. Larry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157750 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-04 09:01:10 Subject: Re: Re: Advice about Saw Set... On Saturday 04 March 2006 08:31 am, L.A. Root wrote: > If Tom Law is at Patina again this year I'll look for his video. There's a couple places you can buy it online, Lie-Nielsen sells it on their website for one, if you or anyone else was looking for it. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157751 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-04 07:38:02 Subject: Re: Re: Different View on Saw Sharpening Thanks Steve!! Yes, Pete's site is invaluable. He has articles about setting. cleaning and filing. His cleaning instructions are different than the other one I've seen. He recommends scraping at a low angle followed by mineral spirits. The article I read first said soaking in penetrating fluid to get rid of the rust. Well, I tried it and I don't know if I did it right but it didn't work. I might try doing some scraping as per Pete. He didn't say one needs a jointer but he was pretty specific in terms of the files you need. I'll have to hunt down a saw vice. They can be had for about $10 from what I can tell. Thanks again! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157752 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-04 09:09:40 Subject: Re: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing files Actually, galoots, let's just "file" this whole thread with the Red Green videos, because that's where it belongs. Messing with battery acid deserves full-on lab safety gear, including at least safety glasses, rubber gloves, and a safe place to work, away from solvents, wood, and other tools. Yeah, I know, I've done it too, but that doesn't make it smart. File sharpening, on the other hand, is easy, cheap, and perfectly safe. Mail them to Boggs, pay the buck or two per file, and relax. The most dangerous part is taking the package to the PO. http://www.boggstool.com/ PK In Galena Alaska "Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157753 ---- From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Date: 2006-03-04 12:17:49 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? and - do NOT try to tell me that "Acid is SMART" - just 'cause I'm a dumb preacher! Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157754 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-04 10:22:07 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 On 4 Mar 2006 at 8:12, Jim Esten wrote: > Does there exist anywhere a reasonable list of contacts for galootish > events (such as Patina, LFOD, the various annual larger swap meets, > localized club events, etc..). I should be the contact for any PAST events, which are shown on the web site. I also am trying to add events from clubs with which have reciprocal membership agreements (e.g., PATINA) but I am clearly dependent on being notified of upcoming events by whoever has responsibility for such things. http://pasttools.org and click on upcoming events. Consider this a list reminder about the upcoming event in Spreckels in a couple of weeks.... -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157755 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-04 15:51:08 Subject: Re: Re: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing I'll second that and add this: http://www.victornet.com/cgi-bin/victor/specials.html You can buy files from these folks for about $1 apiece if you'll take 10 at a time. Yes I have and yes they're nicholson brand. > > From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" > Date: 2006/03/04 Sat PM 01:09:40 EST > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Re: Danger Will Robinson!!!!! - was refurbishing files > (long) > > Actually, galoots, let's just "file" this whole thread with the Red Green > videos, because that's where it belongs. Messing with battery acid deserves > full-on lab safety gear, including at least safety glasses, rubber gloves, > and a safe place to work, away from solvents, wood, and other tools. Yeah, > I know, I've done it too, but that doesn't make it smart. > > File sharpening, on the other hand, is easy, cheap, and perfectly safe. > Mail them to Boggs, pay the buck or two per file, and relax. The most > dangerous part is taking the package to the PO. > > http://www.boggstool.com/ > > PK > In Galena Alaska > "Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you." > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157756 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-04 16:50:19 Subject: WTB - #8 Frog, Type 8 Preferred, but Type 6 or 7 OK I have a rough-but-usable #8 plane with the top of the frog fractured. The frog has a 'B' casting, which was Type 8 and ran for just a couple years *before* 1902 but it is compatible with Type 7 (the 'S' casting) and Type 6 which started in 1888. I'd like to get a replacement frog . . . ideally with a lateral lever, but as long as it is complete, I can work with it. Thanks, Gary K Close to Buffalo NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157757 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-04 17:05:59 Subject: Flour City Saw Oh wise Galoots.. I've ended up with a so-so saw with an etch that reads "Flour City.) I don't think it's taper ground. The etch has a picture of a skyline on a lake, and the name. Google informs me that Rochester NY was the Flour City (until Minneapolis came along, that is) and that they did have metal works and did make edged tools there. Otherwise zip. Does anyone else have any interesting nuggets about this manufacturer? Walt Cheever ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157758 ---- From: buz.buskirk@e... Date: 2006-03-04 11:10:52 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes St. Roy also shows how to use a sash fillister to gauge the thickness of floor planks. Dress the face (up) side to the desired finish. Chuck it in the bench vise, up-side toward the worker. Then make a few passes with the sash fillister to start a rabbet on the side away from the worker. The rabbet defines how far the plank will rise above the floor joists. Rotate and repeat on the other edge of the plank. Crudely mark the location of your floor joists on the plank. At these marks, connect the two rabbets with an adz or skew rabbet to make a crude dado that will accept the width of the joist. It eliminates the need to thickness the bottom side of the floor boards. This probably worked well when you were felling timber and converting it near the building site. You could get a lot of the work done with wood that is partially dry and easy to work. Then folks could dress the floors a few weeks later. It's also another example of how hand-tool methods can be radically different from machine-tool methods. I think that some people criticize hand tools only after trying to use them was imitations of machine tools. On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 01:46:22PM -0600, Robert Weber wrote: > ... > > A sash fillister, on the other hand, is designed to register on the edge > AWAY from the worker. This has something to do with the type of work being > done and the difficulty of registering sash work against the near edge. > Never having stuck window sash, my understanding is purely academic. > -- Buz Buskirk Richmond, Kentucky ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157759 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-04 18:17:45 Subject: Re: Acid and Files On Mar 4, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: > > Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? > > Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? > That has been my problem with the acid bath. It makes no sense. I do use acid to clean my files once in a while though. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157760 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-03-04 18:36:44 Subject: So Cal Swap Meet at AUSTIN HARDWOODS Southern California Galoots - Here is the announcement for next week's, March 11th, oldtools swap meet. Lew -----Original Message----- From: laura@t... [mailto:laura@t...] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 2:15 AM To: Laura Pitney Subject: AUSTIN HARDWOODS OLD TOOL SWAP MEET Just a note to remind you that March 11 is the next Austin Hardwoods Old Tool Swap Meet from 6AM-Noon. The address is 610 N Santiago in Santa Ana, CA (across from the Train Station). The swap meet will be held rain or shine (there's plenty of covered space in case it rains). Anyone Can Sell. Spaces are $10.00. If you only have a few tools, you can put them on my table. Before you set up in the parking lot, make sure Drew is there. If the weather is good, we may be setting up in the dirt area in front of Austin. If you are coming from Northern CA or elsewhere, there is a good antique area with lots of shops near Austin (Orange Circle) and the Car Show is the next day at Vet Stadium in Long Beach (user tools show up there in between all the car stuff). For More Information about the swap meet & Orange Circle, contact Drew Shellenbarger 714-450-2365. For those of you who missed Anderson Plywood because of the treat of rain, we had the event and had plenty of room for all the dealers to set up with all of their tools. John Arenson opened up several spacious indoor areas for us to set up in. We also had plenty of buyers and it only rained for 15 minutes in Culver City. Sales were great and everyone had a good time. Hope to see you at Austin Hardwoods. Don't ya dare miss it! Laura ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157761 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-04 20:38:08 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:50:04 -0600 Don McConnell wrote: > In part, this may come down to a matter of semantics, but > in use, the > fence of the sash fillister registers on the near/front > edge of the > munton/mullion being rabbeted/rebated. The difference > from the moving > fillister is that, through the agency of the armed fence, > it reaches > in past the moulding and fillet, and cuts the > rabbet/rebate at the > far edge (or edge away from the worker). The moving > fillister cuts > the rabbet/rebate at the same edge it is registered on. > Thanks Don. Well put, and less obfuscated than my explanation. That, and I was technically backwards. You don't register the fence on the far side, you work the rabbet on the far side, registering on the near side. I knew it was something like that... Rob in Peoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157762 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-05 22:11:12 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Hi all, Maybe the 'sharpening' effect of the acid is merely cleaning out accumulated debris from the teeth. Peter B, Australia James Thompson wrote: > > On Mar 4, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: > >> >> Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? >> >> Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? >> > > That has been my problem with the acid bath. It makes no sense. > > I do use acid to clean my files once in a while though. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157763 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 08:29:40 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Ken Meltsner wrote: > Just picked up a #18 block plane with the spiffy knuckle joint lever > cap. Lever cap is in good user condition (very little plating left), > but it's missing one of the hinge pins that supports the joint between > the two cap pieces. > > The remaining pin looks like it was swaged on the outside, but I'm not > sure how it was attached on the other end of the pin (the end nearest > the center screw). Was it threaded on one end and then swaged to lock > in place? Or was it flared/swaged on one end, inserted and then > swaged. > > It's somewhat embarrassing to admit that I've gone down into the shop, well - let's just say, "a few" times to look at a type 1 levercap and each time gotten sidetracked by shop farting-around. I accomplished my mission this morning. I think the answer is the latter. Oddly, of the two knuckle-caps I looked at each seemed somewhat different in the way the pin is secured. One looks different on each side! One looks like the pin is preformed to a size on the inboard side, placed into position through the holes in the levercap pieces, and swaged on the outside. The other is the same, but looks like a washer is used underneath the swaged end of the pin. The patent for the levercap is patiently awaiting your visit at DATAMP: http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=355031&type=UT If you click on the USPTO images link, perhaps you will find more information by looking at the document. I'm suffering with a Quicktime problem and can't see it on this computer. Regards, Steve - big fan of type 2 knuckle-caps. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157764 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 08:44:47 Subject: Re: Re: micrometers On Feb 27, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Karl W. Sanger wrote: > Also, to answer the question of who made the in first, one has > to decide what a "micrometer" is. Is it something that measures in > 1000ths or smaller of a meter? Does it have to be sort of "U" shaped > with a thimble and barrel? Or can it be any vernier comparator that > measures in parts of a meter and closes on the object being measured. > What do you think? > > I don't have anything relevant to the subject, but want to reinforce your observation about defining "what it is". In matters taxonomical, and otherwise trying to get a large group of people talking the same language, it is essential to define things from the start. It also helps to understand that people of intelligence and goodwill will have differences of opinions as to how to define things. Just say, no need to get into a bloody incannel gouge fight with someone because you think it is a shoemaker's blurfl, and he myopically thinks it is a saddler's tool. Or when you KNOW it is a style of Holtzwhammer known to be from Philadelphia, and that sad misanthrope insist it comes from Sheffield. And how about the time that pathetic dilettante poseur thought the Kent pattern Frammulis had rosewood....., I change my mind, get out the incannels, me and dumb@s... are going at this from 10 paces. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157765 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-05 08:49:34 Subject: Re: Acid and Files For anyone interested in fooling around with acid at home, thereby avoiding Boggs's excellent services, I will say that the pretty harmless citric acid bath also seems to sharpen up old files to a surprising degree. As with much of my knowledge, this came by accident. I don't remember what strength or how long, so there's no use asking. While the results were useful, the files wern't super-sharp. Me, I'll use Boggs next time... John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157766 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-05 06:32:07 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) Steve Reynolds wrote: > > On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Ken Meltsner wrote: > >> Just picked up a #18 block plane with the spiffy knuckle joint lever >> cap. Lever cap is in good user condition (very little plating left), >> but it's missing one of the hinge pins that supports the joint between >> the two cap pieces. >> >> The remaining pin looks like it was swaged on the outside, but I'm not >> sure how it was attached on the other end of the pin (the end nearest >> the center screw). Was it threaded on one end and then swaged to lock >> in place? Or was it flared/swaged on one end, inserted and then >> swaged. >> >> > > It's somewhat embarrassing to admit that I've gone down into the > shop, well - let's just say, "a few" times to look at a type 1 > levercap and each time gotten sidetracked by shop farting-around. I > accomplished my mission this morning. > > I think the answer is the latter. Oddly, of the two knuckle-caps > I looked at each seemed somewhat different in the way the pin is > secured. One looks different on each side! One looks like the pin is > preformed to a size on the inboard side, placed into position through > the holes in the levercap pieces, and swaged on the outside. The > other is the same, but looks like a washer is used underneath the > swaged end of the pin. > > My 18 has a single pin through both sides. Appears to come in the left (relative to usage, and is swaged or whatever on the right. Interestingly, the lobe on the inside piece is bigger on the left, also. -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157767 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-05 10:47:21 Subject: Chris Pye Tutorials I quickly read the Chris Pye carving tutorials Wiktor has now put on his site and have to say they are great! Many times I read posts both here and in other groups where it is assumed just ownership of a tool is the answer to a successful project completion. Skills, both learned and natural, are completely overlooked or deemed unnecessary and often, burning electrons, or tool acquisition is the panacea to poor skill levels or workmanship. So go read Chris's excellent teachings and apply liberal doses to every project. Practice, practice, practice and skill will come. But above all keep the passion alive by participating in whatever form of Galootism you have chosen as often as possible. Thanks Wiktor and thanks to Chris for confirming the principles of learning by observing and doing. Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157768 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-05 09:27:35 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) Of course, should have noted that mine is a #18 by craftsman. Looks just like the top right pic in Blood and Gore on the #18 Kirk Eppler wrote: > > My 18 has a single pin through both sides. Appears to come in the > left (relative to usage, and is swaged or whatever on the right. > Interestingly, the lobe on the inside piece is bigger on the left, also. > -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineer Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157769 ---- From: Bill Owens Date: 2006-03-05 13:15:23 Subject: Any tool roll collectors? It was a good week at the flea market, still stunted by the season, but with the three indoor buildings mostly full. I hauled home an Atkins saw (my first), a Millers Falls #29 breast drill (my third, all in the last month!), a probably Stanley No 6 fore plane in not too bad shape, and the prize - a Millers Falls #771 12 inch sweep brace with the Lion chuck, along with 29 assorted bits. The bits actually came in a batch of 13 that was out on the table along with the brace, and a bonus after I'd bought them; a canvas tool roll with another 16 hidden inside. So now I have a nice bunch of bits, not a complete set of anything but most in OK condition, and including some designs that I've never run into before. But I also have this old canvas tool roll. Unfortunately I can't stand the things, and never use them. This one is made of heavy canvas, with 15 pockets of varying widths, 32 inches overall width and about 12 inches height. It closes with a leather strap like a small belt. Unfortunately it has some holes worn at the tops of the larger pockets, but it isn't moldy or otherwise unpleasant. And here's the question - before I toss it in the trash, is there someone out there who would want such a thing? If so, tell me and it will be on the way to you. Maybe not instantly since I'm going to North Carolina tomorrow on a business trip, but soon. I always hesitate before discarding something like this, just in case someone wants to give it a home. . . Bill, in sunny Syracuse, NY PS - I've never visited Millers Falls, Massachusetts, but I have the feeling that it must be built at the base of the hill. I certainly feel as if I'm somewhere above it, sliding down the slope. I've gone from having one eggbeater, to the new brace, three breast drills, a beautiful spiral screwdriver and a backsaw (and I didn't even know they made saws?!) Now I've started to look for planes ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157770 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-05 14:07:48 Subject: Busted #8 frogs Hey Y'all, I'm just wondering what is the deal with #8 frogs being busted so often? Lately, it seems every few days someone is looking for one. I have a couple of #8's that have the same problem, specifically, a 608 round side and a #8 that is going to get parted out. Were the users of these planes ham-handed, or is it the weight of the plane, or what? Any thoughts out there? Inquiring minds want to know (TM somebody or other) Bruce Z. Kearney, MO -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/270 - Release Date: 2/27/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157771 ---- From: "Scott Garrison" Date: 2006-03-05 15:16:16 Subject: Re: Disston 122 Jim, the 112 should be about the same "base" value as an equivalent 12. the quality is identical, the only difference is skewback for the 112 whereas the 12 is a straight back. The cost per dozen was $1 more for the 112 than the 12 in the early 1900's. Truth be told, they are a whole lot more rare in the field than the 12s though so should also be more valuable. As for what you paid, I think you got taken for $3 but because I like all the extra info that your pics on your website provide I'll do you a favor and give you $5 for it if you throw in a chisel or two to make it worth my while. Scott Garrison Duluth GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" Today at an estate sale I found a Disston 112. Curious about the value, Are these that unusual? What about approximate value for a run of the mill 112? Did I do good for only $3? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157772 ---- From: Willie Young Date: 2006-03-05 15:16:39 Subject: Thanks to all Wanted to say thank you to the many folks who responded to my questions regarding Stanley Sweetheart planes. MGB/Willie Young ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157773 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-05 16:25:21 Subject: Chisel Handles Here is a link to some chisel handles I recently made. I used Jim Thompson's method to make the one with the leather washers. All it needs now is a finish. http://members.cox.net/wcrittner/handlepg.htm Thanks Jim. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157774 ---- From: "Steve Johnson" Date: 2006-03-05 13:35:13 Subject: Tool Event Calendar I'm trying to build a calendar at http://community.finetools.com. Anyone from the Oldtools list can add tool events you know of easily to this calendar, and if you are using Outlook for an email client you can import all the tool events easily into your Outlook program. You can also add yourself to get an emailed alert message whenever someone adds a new event to the list. This is still in development so if you have ideas for making it better let me know. Thanks. Steve Johnson -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Jim Esten Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:13 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Does there exist anywhere a reasonable list of contacts for galootish events (such as Patina, LFOD, the various annual larger swap meets, localized club events, etc..)... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157775 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-05 16:41:15 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes buz.buskirk@e... wrote: >St. Roy also shows how to use a sash fillister to gauge the thickness >of floor planks. Dress the face (up) side to the desired finish. Chuck >it in the bench vise, up-side toward the worker. Then make a few >passes with the sash fillister to start a rabbet on the side away from >the worker. The rabbet defines how far the plank will rise above the >floor joists. Rotate and repeat on the other edge of the >plank. Crudely mark the location of your floor joists on the plank. At >these marks, connect the two rabbets with an adz or skew rabbet to >make a crude dado that will accept the width of the joist. [...] Also, marking the thickness in this manner --as opposed to, say, along the edge with a marking-gauge as you would usually do if you were working at your bench-- has the advantage that you don't need to continually lift the board to "see how close you are". (That is, it provides a way of checking your work from the top surface, in place.) This is particularly useful when you are working with big boards (that you don't want to keep moving around). Or as in the in example above, of working floor planks, where the board's edges can be butted up together, side to side (or, indeed, might be forming the surface you are standing on!) N ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157776 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-05 16:45:36 Subject: Re: Busted #8 frogs At 03:07 PM 3/5/2006, genfurn wrote: >Hey Y'all, > >I'm just wondering what is the deal with #8 frogs being busted so >often? Lately, it seems every few days someone is looking for >one. I have a couple of #8's that have the same problem, >specifically, a 608 round side and a #8 that is going to get parted >out. Were the users of these planes ham-handed, or is it the weight >of the plane, or what? I have seen a number of them out here at my end of the world as well. Always low knobs. You get sucked in by seeing the length, then the low knob, then no lateral adjuster, and you turn it over and........... And of course, the seller always has the comment of "oh it should be easy to find another one"..... Uh huh, yeah right Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157777 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-05 16:51:59 Subject: And This Week's Winner Of the most. shall we say "creative" chisel handle replacement goes to whom ever did this wonderful bit of work. http://oldetoolshop.com/toolpics/dawinner.jpg And NOT only did he heat the tang so that the plastic was wrapped around like the death grip of an anaconda, but he so nicely rounded over the end so as to leave nothing to catch with a cold chisel to try and drive it off with. I know, I could have heated the blade just above the tang bolster, but I don't have a torch here. So we did a little creative "Hacksaw 101" to get close enough so I could split the rest off with a regular chisel. Oh well, all in a day's tools. Tony (where the tool pickings of late have been mightly slim) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157778 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-05 16:21:03 Subject: RE: Chris Pye Tutorials Peter and Gentle Galoots, Let me preface my remarks by re-affirming my support for Wictor's endeavours and the skills that are taught via tutorials such as by Chris Pye. I also respect Peter's comments on acquisition of skills. I believe though that I must come clean before the assemblage of Galoots far and wide. I am a certifiable NeanderBub! There are on this list many true craftpersons who seek to learn lost and forgotten skills. They also practice, practice, practice. They do spectacular work. As a true NeanderBub I really like to muddle along with a little information, but with more appreciation for the process of independent discovery. And, I love old tools. And, I probably do not do most of them justice! But, I preserve them and enjoy using them just the same. Now, I do not denigrate the skills of those who practice to achieve perfection, but that isn't what I want to do. I would have made a lousy apprentice. As Edison said about the process of inventing the light bulb--he now knew a thousand ways not to make one--or something similar to that! Unlike Edison, once I have mastered something to my satisfaction, that I set out to accomplish, I am ready to move on to something else. I get bored easily and I love unstructured learning. Hey, and sometimes I achieve remarkable results and sometimes I need a few stitches along the way. Are there other NeanderBubs out there or am I majority of one--sort of out standing in my field--as in by myself? Surely there must be some Galoots out there who go for breadth of knowledge rather than depth and perfection. If you still want to know how many things you can fix with a piece of baling wire you may be a NeanderBub! If you know what baling wire is you may be a NeanderBub and not know it! Stand up--not on four, but on two feet and show your hairy sloped forehead with true pride. Paul in Normal PS I'd duck and run for cover, but some of us NeanderBubs don't know enough to come in out of the rain! We excel at outdoor fleas though! Rust is our legacy. > Subject: [OldTools] Chris Pye Tutorials > > I quickly read the Chris Pye carving tutorials Wiktor has now put on > his site and have to say they are great! > Many times I read posts both here and in other groups where it is > assumed just ownership of a tool is the answer to a successful project > completion. > Skills, both learned and natural, are completely overlooked or deemed > unnecessary and often, burning electrons, or tool acquisition is the > panacea to poor skill levels or workmanship. So go read Chris's > excellent teachings and apply liberal doses to every project. Practice, > practice, practice and skill will come. But above all keep the passion > alive by participating in whatever form of Galootism you have chosen as > often as possible. > Thanks Wiktor and thanks to Chris for confirming the principles of > learning by observing and doing. > Peter > I have moved to: > http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157779 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-05 17:07:29 Subject: First semi-successful Dovetail.. I hand cut my first semi-successful dovetail joint this morning. It's far from perfect and a lot more practice is necessary but it's a start! I had some problems with the wood is it is a bit warped and started cracking but it went together anyway. I posted the pix on my fotki site: http://public.fotki.com/sarrett/dovetail/ Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157780 ---- From: "Ken Meltsner" Date: 2006-03-05 16:26:39 Subject: Re: Stanley #18 knuckle joint lever cap (first version) Thanks for checking your type 1s. Should have known that Stanley wouldn't do anything the same way twice... Kirk writes: >Of course, should have noted that mine is a #18 by craftsman. And I should have used a tape measure -- it turns out I have a #19, not a #18. Same details, except it's an inch longer. Ken Meltsner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157781 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-05 14:37:38 Subject: Re: Chisel Handles Outstanding! You done GOOD, Bill! On Mar 5, 2006, at 4:25 PM, Bill Rittner wrote: > Here is a link to some chisel handles I recently made. I used Jim > Thompson's > method to make the one with the leather washers. All it needs now is a > finish. > > http://members.cox.net/wcrittner/handlepg.htm > > Thanks Jim. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out > alive!" (unknown) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157782 ---- From: Bill Owens Date: 2006-03-05 17:45:16 Subject: Re: Any tool roll collectors? On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 01:15:23PM -0500, Bill Owens wrote: > And here's the question - before I toss it in the trash, is there someone > out there who would want such a thing? And in fact, there are such people ;) The roll will be on its way to a new home just as soon as I find a box for it. . . Bill. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157783 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-05 15:02:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 02:07 pm, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > I hand cut my first semi-successful dovetail joint this morning. It's far > from perfect and a lot more practice is necessary but it's a start! I had > some problems with the wood is it is a bit warped and started cracking but > it went together anyway. I posted the pix on my fotki site: > > http://public.fotki.com/sarrett/dovetail/ Wendy, I wouldn't worry about perfection, as you see in your 3rd pic after you planed it, it doesn't look too bad. Congrats for taking the plunge and pursuing handcut dovetails, it is certainly the epitomy of fine craftsmanship. How did you cut this one? I'm just curious, to compare the various ways I've tried. Some do pins first, some do tails first, etc... Frank Klausz made a video of creating a dovetailed drawer. He uses little, if any measuring tools. It's a great style, and it works well for him. What I really like about this style is that it allows a person to focus on the process and creating the joints, without have hassles of marking them out. This is a great way to practice. But one thing about Frank's style that doesn't work as well for me is that Frank cuts the pins and tails aprox. the same size, and I like the narrower, Rob Cosman style of pins. I actually think this style not only looks cleaner, but is stronger. It has tails almost completely surrounding the pin side with the opposing force, on the joint, i.e., the narrow side of the pin (if that makes sense to others;-). For real projects, I have started marking in a more symetrical fashion, using dividers and a more symetrical pattern, I find that more pleasing. Joinery is facinating to me... There's a ton of good info, on the porch and out in cyber... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157784 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-06 10:15:51 Subject: Australian Wood Review *www.woodreview.com.au* Fellow Galoots , I have been a subscriber to Australian Wood Review Magazines for a couple of years now. Each magazine supplies excellent tutorials on hand tools , woodwork projects , including a whole range of skills that include woodturning , carving , cabinet work , ect. The editors involved , are highly respected in their field of expertise. This magazine has been classed as one of the best available- world wide. I have viewed other magazines form diiferent countries , and would agree with this appraisal. I have no financial gain from telling you of this magazines benefits. If you wish to , search the above mentioned web site. Regards Stewart Simpson / Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157785 ---- From: "genfurn" Date: 2006-03-05 17:30:21 Subject: Re: And This Week's Winner Sheesh, Tony, don't be so sensitive. After all, you coulda used it till it broke and then tried to find another "original" plastic handle to replace it. Bruce Z. Duckin' and Runnin' in Kearney, MO > Of the most. shall we say "creative" chisel handle replacement goes to > whom ever did this wonderful bit of work. > > http://oldetoolshop.com/toolpics/dawinner.jpg -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/270 - Release Date: 2/27/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157786 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-05 18:35:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. >Wendy posted pics of her first hand cut dovetails.< Nice job for your first try. You will find hand cutting dovetails to be very rewarding. Now that you have done a joint may I suggest that you try a better wood for this joint. Pine is difficult to cut across grain even with a sharp chisel. Mahagony would be a better choice as it cuts much cleaner than pine and you can find small pieces at Woodcraft if you have one nearby. Failing that poplar would be a better choice than pine, especially the stuff at the big box stores. Whatever you do keep practicing and soon you will be cutting furniture quality joints. It doesn't take as long as you might think. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157787 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-05 18:49:39 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 06:02 pm, Alan DuBoff wrote: > I wouldn't worry about perfection, as you see in your 3rd pic after you > planed it, it doesn't look too bad. Thanks Alan! Actually, I didn't plane it....must be the camera angle. But the wood would really need a good jointing and planing if being used for a real project. It's kindof cupped. > How did you cut this one? I'm just curious, to compare the various ways > I've tried. Some do pins first, some do tails first, etc... > Actually, I attempted to follow Mr. Klausz method. I was privileged to see him making them at a free demo locally last weekend and then purchased his video in order to review what I had seen. (He's a very nice gentleman BTW.) I did however mark out my initial layout so it would be reasonably even...Mr. Klausz, being an expert, just does it by eye and then traces the other side to match his inital cuts. Interesting what you say about Mr. Cosman's technique. I'll have to look him up on line and see if I can find a pix. Thanks again! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157788 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-05 16:11:00 Subject: Re: hacksaw question GGs, I just wanted to thank everyone that replied to my hacksaw question. I never know how to respond when someone takes the time to type up a thoughtful reply, basically all I've come up with is "Uh, thanks a lot!" which is somehow lacking. Also I've tried not replying which seems so rude. So to follow Red Green's, "if you have nothing to say, stop talking", I'll say thanks a bunch and briefly mention that cutting 1/4" steel with a hacksaw is A-OK.. Adriaan Ps: Any Galoots at Liberty Tools on Saturday? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157789 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-05 18:27:14 Subject: Sandusky & the Flea GG, Having recently taken a nose dive down the wooden molding plane slope, I acquired a reprint of a 1925 Sandusky Tool Co. catalog. Gotta have some frame of reference, plus that is the most frequent maker of the planes I'm getting. Anyway it's here if you wish to see it... http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/sandusky/1925-SanduskyTool-Cat25-ne.pdf or...http://tinyurl.com/lz6o3 And since Sat at lunch I ran to the flea, for my third run at the tool collection I have been pillaging... http://www.shavingsandsawdust.com/fleaMerket/flea-03042006.asp The panel raiser is a real interesting find, at least thats what I think it is... BTW if anyone can fill in the blanks I'd love to have the information. The screwdrivers just happened to arrive at my house on sat also Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157790 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 19:30:32 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Mar 5, 2006, at 6:02 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: Wendy, that is a good first try. I won't go into details, but mine were MUCH worse. > > But one thing about Frank's style that doesn't work as well for me is > that > Frank cuts the pins and tails aprox. the same size, and I like the > narrower, > Rob Cosman style of pins. I actually think this style not only looks > cleaner, > but is stronger. Alan, I won't argue the aesthetic superiority of the London style thin pins, but regarding strength, Fine Woodworking on Period Furniture has an article wherein some experts discuss how they find them broken off in antiques. To paraphrase the Dirty Dozen, "They're pretty, but they can't fight". Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157791 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-05 19:56:43 Subject: Fw: Simonds Saw Catalog Additional Scans Fellow Simondsized Galoots, Wiktor has posted additional pages of the 1923 Simonds Catalog (now 30 pages) which I scanned. Hope you guys like it. More to follow as time permits. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zpdf/simonds/1923Simonds%20Catalog-HandSaws-ne.pdf Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA > Al, > > I posted updated PDF file with scans you sent. > > Thanks, > > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Perreault [mailto:alan.perreault@v...] > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:01 PM > To: Wiktor A. Kuc > Subject: Simonds Saw Catalog Additional Scans > > Wiktor, > > I have attached more scans from the Simonds 1923 Catalog. If you could > post > them on line with the other pages I sent Previously. > > Thank You. > > Al Perreault > Wachusett Galoot > Westminster, MA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157792 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-03-05 20:31:09 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Hi, Steve and Others This chemist shudders whenever it is mentioned to dilute sulfuric acid by adding water to it. With hydrochloric (muriatic) acid diluting it that way will make the reaction noticeably warm but not dangerously so. Add water to concentrated sulfuric acid and you get a violent heat-producing reaction that is likely to splatter acid in your face. Thus arose the rule that you must always dilute acid bu adding it to a large volume of water. Like many general rules, it is not a bad idea but really required only for sulfuric acid. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157793 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-05 18:01:24 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 03:49 pm, Wendy Sarrett wrote: > Thanks Alan! Actually, I didn't plane it....must be the camera angle. But > the wood would really need a good jointing and planing if being used for a > real project. It's kindof cupped. One thing you may find, and I learned this from Rob Cosman's video, is if you plane the endgrain before you mark, it's easier to see the scribes. Starting with square stock is very helpful also. I try to leave just a bit extra and plane it down after, the last pic looked like you had done that, so you fooled me!;-) > Actually, I attempted to follow Mr. Klausz method. I was privileged to see > him making them at a free demo locally last weekend and then purchased his > video in order to review what I had seen. (He's a very nice gentleman > BTW.) I did however mark out my initial layout so it would be reasonably > even...Mr. Klausz, being an expert, just does it by eye and then traces the > other side to match his inital cuts. You don't need to be an expert to do it by eye. If you practice on a pins first dovetail as Frank does, it removes a lot of the burden from you, and lets you cut several dovetails quickly, or quicker than if you had to mark them. I think it's an excellent way to practice. > Interesting what you say about Mr. Cosman's technique. I'll have to look > him up on line and see if I can find a pix. Rob spends more time than Frank, and has a 2nd video for advanced dovetails where he shows half blind, houndstooth, miter, etc... Both are excellent tutorials to follow, IMO. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157794 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-05 18:05:10 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Sunday 05 March 2006 04:30 pm, Steve Reynolds wrote: > Alan, I won't argue the aesthetic superiority of the London style thin > pins, but regarding strength, Fine Woodworking on Period Furniture has > an article wherein some experts discuss how they find them broken off > in antiques. To paraphrase the Dirty Dozen, "They're pretty, but they > can't fight". I had seen that article a while ago and the thing that struck me odd about it was how they were testing the joints. If I remember correctly, that had a dovetail and one side was in the vise, another extended out horizontal, and they put weight on the horizontal piece. Is this the same article? What I thought odd about that was that a dovetail joint is not designed to hold weight up like that, the joint is created to prevent the pins from pulling forward. I'd like to see a test where large pin and small pin dovetails were supported by 2 sides (like a drawer front) and weight is added to the back of the front to see how each of those pin styles performed. You don't remember which issue of FWW it was in, do you? I'd like to go back and read it. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157795 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-06 13:16:27 Subject: Australian Wood Review . Australian Wood Review. 50th Edition Collector Special. http://*www.woodreview.com.au/* Fellow Galoots , have included picture of latest A.W.R. magazine release. If interested , they subscribe worldwide. Please note , I have no financial gain from forwarding this email . Best magazine of its type world wide. Regards Stewart Simpson / Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157796 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-05 22:18:49 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Mar 5, 2006, at 9:05 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Sunday 05 March 2006 04:30 pm, Steve Reynolds wrote: >> Alan, I won't argue the aesthetic superiority of the London style >> thin >> pins, but regarding strength, Fine Woodworking on Period Furniture has >> an article wherein some experts discuss how they find them broken off >> in antiques. To paraphrase the Dirty Dozen, "They're pretty, but they >> can't fight". > > I had seen that article a while ago and the thing that struck me odd > about it > was how they were testing the joints. If I remember correctly, that > had a > dovetail and one side was in the vise, another extended out > horizontal, and > they put weight on the horizontal piece. > > > You don't remember which issue of FWW it was in, do you? I'd like to > go back > and read it. > > I'm referring to a different article. This one was reprinted in book form in "FWW on Period Furniture". The article is excellent and talks about slavishly following the designs of period craftsman or making modifications in the interest of sound structure. No testing was done, they interviewed people with a lot of experience with period furniture. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157797 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-05 22:11:10 Subject: Re: Sandusky & the flea GG, The afore mentioned Sandusky catalog is no longer available. I apologise, for the tease, I will try to return the information in some form...when legalities are clarified. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157798 ---- From: Benjamin Mullin Date: 2006-03-06 00:41:24 Subject: My Weekend Rust Hunt Fellow Galoots, Here follows my weekends adventure. Saturday morning I loaded up the GIT in the car and with my brother riding shotgun we set out on the road in pursuit of old tools at four reasonably close (within 30 miles of home in this non-saling season) "estate sales". Hopes were riding high. I wasn't looking for anything in particular, just more old tools. The first sale was a rummage type deal at a church. We were in and out of there in three, maybe four minutes. It appeared to be something the little old church ladies set up. Maybe two items in the bunch that could be even remotely related to tool like things. Back on the road again, still feeling like the morning is still young and old tools could abound at the next sale. As we approach the next sale we are counting down the house numbers until we reach the one that doesn't appear to be having a sale? What? Well, either I read the ad wrong or got the wrong address or they changed their minds. Point being, our four sales were down to three. Now the optimism is starting to fade. The last two on the list were at a newer development. This struck me as having less promise. I figure the houses in the old neighborhoods are more likely to have a nice old gentleman who has lived there for 30 or 40 years with his tools. I figure the newer homes are either going to be young people, or old tool kind of people that already sold their tools when they moved from the old house. But, never the less I was determined to find some old tools so we headed out that way. The first appeared to be a "collectibles" sale. Nothing doing there. So, we head to the last one. Ah ha. It appears there are a couple of old tools there. A couple of old Warranted Superior hand saws, a couple of auger bits and one Yankee hand drill. I spent all that time driving around trying to find old tools, and I finally did, and I bought nothing. I'm thinking I should have bought the hand drill, but I passed for some reason. The rest I have no regrets about. The money burning a hole in my pocket prevented me from heading straight home, so I decided to swing by an antique store I had not yet visited. There I picked up a nice clean Disston No. 8 for $9. Maybe not a gloatable $2, but it helped satisfy my old tool craving for the weekend. Haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet, but that'll be a project for some night this week. On the way home I just had to stop in at another shop I had been to before that seemed to only contain broken, incomplete, extremely overpriced old tools. The only item that looked at all tempting was a pretty darn clean and complete Miller Falls #14. At $40, I wasn't prepared to spend my money on it without checking first. The bay shows completed auctions for about $15 to $25 so it doesn't look necessarily worth the $40. Anyone care to convince me otherwise? I'm no collector, just trying to "collect" some usable tools. It appeared to be about the same size as my Bailey #5 so it doesn't seem like it would do anything to enhance my user set. This concludes my weekend rust hunting saga. Happy old tooling, Ben Mullin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157799 ---- From: Richard.Wilson@s... Date: 2006-03-06 09:58:23 Subject: Flobbling around - use negative rake Scott said. . about a Yorkshire parson.. - errm parser. . > Just flobbles around in the hole until it's done? Wish I had a > slightly closer look at the business end of the cutter So for the benefit of anyone else, (like Mike ) who may be interested in making one of these, here's a response I had from Ian Wright. (publisher of the info, Paddy ) answering my query about the cutter configuration. "The inner edges are usually rounded because there are situations where the parser is used in tight corners or for long narrow work where the legs actually cross over - difficult to describe succinctly, but let us consider inlaying a nameplate 1" long by 3/16" wide. The parser will have the ends of the legs filed to maybe 5/32" wide from the cutting edge to the rounded back by 3.32" thick. So, when it is rotated within the template, there will be a point at the centre where the legs have to be beside each other before they pass each other and spring apart again. If the back edge were sharp cornered, they could cut where they shouldn't. In practice, however, the legs are never left to spring apart on their own but the legs are loosely held by the hand, controlling the amount they spring open and guiding them around within the template to ensure that every bit is cut to the same depth and all the corners are cleaned out. The actual cutting edges, both on the sides and ends of the tips, are usually a bit less than 90 degrees. This is determined by the shape of the shield or whatever which is being cut as the angle needs to be a little less than the sharpest angle within the template. Their action is simply one of scraping with negative rake but is nevertheless quite efficient. It is also important that the 'wings' at the ends of the legs which govern the depth of cut be somewhat more than half the maximum width of the shield in width, otherwise, when the parser is being guided round, the wing could slip inside the template and make too deep a cut. The old-time cutlers I have watched using this tool would usually set up the knife scale, inlay and set even the most complicated shield in just 15 - 20 seconds - try setting a cnc machine up to do the same job!!!! If you make a parser, I would be very interested to see the results and hear your comments on its use." If we get any of these working on the list, then maybe we could get some info together for him? Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- For information on Christian Salvesen visit our website at www.salvesen.com. The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and / or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Christian Salvesen has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Christian Salvesen is a trading name of the Christian Salvesen Group. Christian Salvesen PLC (Company number SC7173) is the ultimate holding company within the Christian Salvesen Group whose registered office is at 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh EH2 4DF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157800 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-06 10:23:31 Subject: Re: Re: Parsers??? wayne.a.anderson@a... wrote: > Genius. Yup...I'll be making one too. Thanks. -Wayne Anderson I'll bet yours is fancy! BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157801 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-06 10:34:54 Subject: Re: Wooden Plough Planes Nichael Cramer wrote: > buz.buskirk@e... wrote: > > > Also, marking the thickness in this manner --as opposed to, say, along the > edge with a marking-gauge as you would usually do if you were working at > your bench-- > has the advantage that you don't need to continually lift the board to > "see how close > you are". (That is, it provides a way of checking your work from the > top surface, in place.) Indeed. I remember an analogous tip - having marked a board for thickness with a marking gauge, use a handy size plane (#3 or #4) set moderately rank, and remove a chamfer around the perimeter of the board (almost) to the marked line. The "depth" is now readable looking down on to the board, providing similar benefits to the sash rebate approach being discussed. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157802 ---- From: "Caron, Gary J \(PA83\)" Date: 2006-03-06 06:14:46 Subject: Chisel Maker Galoots, I picked up a corner chisel at a local auction recently and was wondering if someone out there might be familiar with the maker mark. There are an unknown number of letters missing before the 'CE'. http://userweb.suscom.net/~caronfamily/Mark.jpg Thanks, Gary Caron York, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157803 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-06 09:08:20 Subject: Re: Chisel Maker Gary is looking for a Youngstown corner chisel maker with the name ending in "CE"-- A quick run through the DAT's geographical index for Ohio only turns up six names ending in CE (though I went crosseyed about halfway through and may have missed one). Of the six, only two are listed as edge tool makers--Daggett & Pierce, of Cincinnati (c. 1830) and Yeaman & Lawrence, of Clyde (1870-71). I didn't spot a single Youngstown location among the hundreds of names listed, either--what did they do with all that steel? Sorry to be of so little help--maybe the MWTCA folks could help out. John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY, whose father spent a few years of his early boyhood in Youngstown nearly a century ago. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157804 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-06 10:26:56 Subject: Norris adjuster info? Gentle Galoots, Preface: Please don't reply if your intent is to convince me that I don't need a Norris adjuster. I've made up my mind that I want to make one regardless of whether or not I *need* it. It looks like a fun challenge to attempt to make my own. I also won't be needing advice like "you can't make that without an engine lathe!" Well guess what! I've got an entire machine shop at my disposal (during my lunch break!) So naysayers please hold your tongues. Thank you. There, now that's out of the way, does anybody have any info and or specs on the pre-war Norris adjusters? The compound screw type that's a thread-within-a-thread deal? Can anybody give me thread size and pitch for both threads? I found Jim Yehle's drawings of Kingshott's version, but his prints don't have this info. Anybody have an original or repro adjuster I could briefly borrow to measure (I know that's asking a lot!) If so I could make measured drawings to post on Wiktor's site. I see that Ray Iles, Holtey and Bristol Design all make a fairly faithful version of the pre-war adjuster. Anyone know of any others? In the end I can always make the adjuster without this information, but using the original Norris design as a benchmark would be neat. -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157805 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-06 10:52:05 Subject: Graver GGs, This talk of gravers reminded me of some that I had gotten years ago in a lot at an an auction. Typically, I have hung on to them, but I have no use for them, and if any of you do, I would be happy to send them to you. The picture is: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3605 Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157806 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-06 08:25:08 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. As sent 1/18/06 Alan DuBoff wrote: > >I'd like to see a test where large pin and small pin dovetails were supported >by 2 sides (like a drawer front) and weight is added to the back of the front >to see how each of those pin styles performed. > > Summarizing quickly the article from FWW April 2001 pg 74 - 79 Issue 148 # is x 1000lb load where joint failed Pull Load as in opening a drawing Dovetails Narrow Pin Low Angle 7° 1.75 Standard Pin High ANgle 14° 1.6 Standard Pin Low Angle 7° 1.5 Wide Pin Low Angle 7° 1.4 -- Kirk Eppler in SuddenlySunny Half Moon Bay, CA Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157807 ---- From: Louis Michaud Date: 2006-03-06 11:26:18 Subject: Re: Re: Parsers??? A little more information: http://www.ilovewood.com/ In "Alburnam's Arhives" under "Unsual Tools". He calls it a bifurcated bit. Lots of great galoot stuff in these archives ! Best, Louis Michaud Rimouski, Quebec ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157808 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-06 10:13:51 Subject: Re: Re: Sandusky & the flea On 5 Mar 2006 at 22:11, roygriggs@v... wrote: > The afore mentioned Sandusky catalog is no longer available. I > apologise, for the tease, I will try to return the information in > some form...when legalities are clarified. Legalities aside, I'd like to point out something that probably has more to do with morality here. Martyl Pollak is a woman who has done the oldtools community great service by keeping this information available to all. Some of us are pretty dependent on books like AWP4, and anything we can do to help her stay in business helps us all. Taking a book that she sells and posting its contents on the internet is taking food off her table. Even if it was legal, it would be a pretty shameful thing to do. Astragal Press is our friend, and we don't steal from our friends. If one owns a catalog that is not available anywhere else and there is no real interest in reproducing it, that I'm all for posting it for all to see. Those of us who have been hanging around the Internet since before it was called that (and it was non-commercial) have a great appreciation of its role in providing free access to information not available elsewhere. That's what it's for. But if this same information is readily available to anyone simply by buying the book, then there is no problem with access. Anyone can send a check to Astragal Press and obtain the information. I realize there are some people who are on limited budgets, but "I can't afford it" is not justification for stealing a book any more than for stealing a car. If you want there to be an AWP5 some day, let's make sure we don't drive Mrs. Pollak out of business. No offense intended to Roy - it was just a bad idea. But the right solution here is to remind everyone that this book is available and is reasonably priced. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157809 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-06 12:26:52 Subject: UK toolmaking Hello All, I have created a new section on www.wkFineTools.com - Toolmaking in UK. Few weeks ago I begun some talk with Brian Read, the Editor of TATHS Newsletter. He agreed for me to use some of the articles printed in TATHS Newsletters and post them on my website. I posted few already as well as some other material that I have in my possession. I hope to grow this section to a meaningful size. If any of you is interested in submitting article on English Tools or any other, relevant subject - YOU ARE WELCOME! I would be glad to work with you to help in creating quality articles. Also, please keep in mind that www.OldToolsShop.com is alive only if you guys submit somethin' - article, comment, what to share post to the List and website. Please copy me on this kind of posts, so I know what you want. I can't go through all emails to pick something for website. There is not enough time in a day for me to do that. Thanks much, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157810 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-06 13:41:44 Subject: New bronze in the shop... Gentle Galoots, about 6 months ago, I stumbled across a high gizmosity piece of cast iron, a Barnes Velocipede #2 scroll saw and have been jazzed about it ever since. This tool is great fun and fits both in the shop and with the large amount of toy making I seem to gravitate towards, though I have done a few Victorian style brackets on it as well. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2341 having spent some time internet researching this saw I found catalog images showing a Boring Attachment, kind of a cantelevered drilling arm that runs off a groove on the flywheel pulley, tensioning the belt when pulled down towards the table and lose in the upright position. I also found a company in Missouri that makes a cast alumimum reproduciton of the Velocipede as well as a cast bronze reproduction of the Boring Attachment. So, with a little hoarded holiday bonus fundage, my first bronze shop fixture made its way to the coast of Northern California. Here it is, installed, belt tensioned and ready to to. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3606 This saw must have had an original Boring Attachment on it at one point, the bolt in the back of the casting that supports the saw arms was waiting for the new bronze version, so this really was a bolt on upgrade. Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a few trys to scarf it, melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them together, then trim the glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the pulleys. The bright orange is a little distracting. Also my first tryout had the bit spinning backwards, so I looped the belt around so forward pedalling equals drilling. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3607 Here's the view from sitting in the tractor seat on the saw, looks like the original arm was a bit longer, judging from the hole in the table top. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3608 I always thought my first bronze purchase would be from Lie Neilson's, but this will do. Now I'm considering some sort of Dutchman or Viking in the saw table to keep from constantly redrilling it. Not that I'm complaining, but being able to bore holes for, theoreticaly, interior scroll work, while not having to get out of the seat seems like a good idea, but you'd have to get off the seat anyway to retension the blade, the turnbuckle is between the back ends of the saw arms, maybe there were quick release blade holders that I have yet to find out about. Michael-San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157811 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-06 15:22:05 Subject: Re: Norris adjuster info? >Andy wants to make a pre-war Norris adjuster< I hope you get the info you are looing for. When you do make the adjuster please post pictures and a full description. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:26 AM Subject: [OldTools] Norris adjuster info? > Gentle Galoots, > > Preface: > > Please don't reply if your intent is to convince me that I don't need a > Norris adjuster. I've made up my mind that I want to make one > regardless of whether or not I *need* it. It looks like a fun challenge > to attempt to make my own. I also won't be needing advice like "you > can't make that without an engine lathe!" Well guess what! I've got an > entire machine shop at my disposal (during my lunch break!) So > naysayers please hold your tongues. Thank you. > > There, now that's out of the way, does anybody have any info and or > specs on the pre-war Norris adjusters? The compound screw type that's a > thread-within-a-thread deal? Can anybody give me thread size and pitch > for both threads? I found Jim Yehle's drawings of Kingshott's version, > but his prints don't have this info. > > Anybody have an original or repro adjuster I could briefly borrow to > measure (I know that's asking a lot!) If so I could make measured > drawings to post on Wiktor's site. > > I see that Ray Iles, Holtey and Bristol Design all make a fairly > faithful version of the pre-war adjuster. Anyone know of any others? > > In the end I can always make the adjuster without this information, but > using the original Norris design as a benchmark would be neat. > > -Andy > > ----------------------------------------- > This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or > entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please > do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to > others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, > and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The > Timken Corporation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157812 ---- From: bouland@g... Date: 0000-00-00 00:00:00 Subject: backsaw spine adjust. ? I have an old Beardshaw brass backed saw in need of restoration. The spine has been completely set as far down upon the blade as it possibly can. Blade is straight and no need to adjust as far as I can tell but was curious if having the spine set in this manner was of any concern. Blade is rusty and dull and am contemplating how to go about cleaning it. Was curious if there were any point to adjusting/removing the spine before doing so. Any thoughts? I've seen previous posts relating to how to go about adjusting, just didn't know if there were really any point if blade was not indicating the need. Thanks, Andrew B. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157813 ---- From: "Jack Kamishlian" Date: 2006-03-06 15:30:28 Subject: Re: Graver It's gone to Keith. He was the first to respond. Cheers, Jack in Endwell, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157814 ---- From: "Joe Parker" Date: 2006-03-06 12:59:57 Subject: Re: Acid and Files Thomas - > Why does the acid only eat the 'inside' of the file? It doesn't. It is an equal opportunity eater. > Why doesn't it eat the TOP of the teeth off at the same time? It does, but the result is still sharp. You can easily convince yourself safely with pencil and paper (no acid required). Draw a well-rounded tooth about 2 inches (5.08 cm, Jeff) wide and 2 inches tall. Then draw a line inside removing, uniformly, 1/4" (0.635 cm, Jeff). This will be a sharper, albeit smaller, tooth. If this is not scary sharp enough for you, do it again. In effect the acid is reducing the radius of the rounded tooth top by the amount of the etch, quickly getting to "zero". Joe Parker Los Gatos, CA Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt Holy Cross Lutheran Church Warda, TX This is IT - Warda -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/06 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157815 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-06 14:10:15 Subject: Plow plane rehab Greetings All, I'm rehabilitating my first wooden plow plane. It's an Ohio Tool Company #101 (I think). I'm now working on the worst damage. It seems that at some point the fence got wet and water seeped in behind the boxing. This caused the strip of boxing to bow which split open one corner of the fence into which the boxing was dovetailed. I was able to drive the boxing out of the fence without much trouble. I glued the split portion of the fence back together so it is ready to have the boxing driven back in again, or so it seems to me. But I need to straighten the strip of boxing first. What is the best way to do that? I am thinking of boiling it for half an hour or so (as it is only about a quarter of an inch thick) until it is flexible enough to straightened. I would like to then just drive it back into the fence while it is hot but I am guessing it will be too swollen to fit. If so, I guess I will just clamp it and wait for it to dry. Any ideas? Thanks! Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157816 ---- From: "Joe Parker" Date: 2006-03-06 13:41:17 Subject: Re: New bronze in the shop... Nick - > Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them together, then trim the > glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the pulleys. The bright > orange is a little distracting. If it gets too distracting, sewing machine belts tend to be the wrong size, but McMaster-Carr sells round leather belting by the foot. Joe Parker Los Gatos, CA ____________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157817 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-06 16:44:38 Subject: Backsaw Toady I decided to sharpen the backsaw I got from Grandpa. It needed it badly. It is now sharp and ready to go. Easier than I thought it would be. I went to see my parents new vacation home yesterday. The old owners left this enourmous pile of wood. I got some stuff but the car was too full of wedding junk to get more. Most of it was little short pieces too. Remember when mixing acid and water add Acid to the water like a good chemist otter. Some sill thing a salesmen told m years ago but It works. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157818 ---- From: "Ed in Ottawa" Date: 2006-03-06 15:41:57 Subject: Re: Graver Greetings to the porch! For the more curious, these are the cutting heads used in an electron powered rotary engraving / lettering machine, such as the type you find at the local locksmith or jeweller. The machine engraves characters in metal or plastic, and the use of a pantographic arm allows the creation of various font sizes of the character templates used. Some of you may have had the "lamacoid" plastic versions on your office doors on on your desk, with the coloured foreground and white lettering that appears after removal of the coloured surface layer. Regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157819 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-06 14:46:12 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Wendy cuts her first set of hand dovetails Congrats - it is a slippey slope. Several Galoots discuss the Klauz vs. Cosman techniques for dovetails Personally I'm a large fan on Ian Kirby's method which relies more on paring than chopping but whatever works for you. Bill suggests better wood - mahogany or poplar I wholeheartedly agree. After struggling with pine I bought about 3BF of Mahogany and made about 10 sets of dovetails. World of difference as the wood works so well with handtools you can focus more on your technique Joel McCarty ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157820 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-06 18:39:05 Subject: chemical sayings Galoots, "Little Willie was a chemist. Little Willie is no more. What he thought was H2O (dihydrogen oxide) was really H2SO4" (sulfuric acid) Acid in water: do what you oughter. Water in acid: is a bad habit. (sort of rhymes) Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157821 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-07 09:21:04 Subject: Re: First Semi Successful Dovetails Very good try Wendy. My first attempt was made a little easier because I had seen some-one "paring out" the pin and tail floors using this method: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3609 My drawing shows a square piece of scrap clamped along the floor line of the pins. This is used as a vertical guide against which to run the back of the chisel, keeping the cut vertical and the floors all at the same level. You may also find this link to Jeff Gorman's Dovetailing page usefull: http://www.amgron.clara.net/dovetails/tipsinpics/hintsntips.htm I have learned that softer woods require far sharper chisels. My boards cupped too, but I fixed that by wetting them on the concave side and clamping them wet face to wet face for a short while prior to glue up. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157822 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-06 17:58:06 Subject: RE: Chris Pye Tutorials GGs, Paul writes: >standing in my field--as in by myself? Surely there must be some >Galoots out >there who go for breadth of knowledge rather than depth and perfection. Long version only: I'm with you Paul, specialisation is for insects :> And perfection is the voice of the oppressor. Let me see, I've made some knives, done some jewelry, I've built a shaving horse, a spring lathe, several forges, I've done blacksmithing, woodwork, I'm making an infill plane right now, I've tried engraving and etching, gas welding and cutting and sculpturing, carving, fretsawing and inlaying, both metal and wood, I'm interested in psychology, dreams and symbolism and archetypes, books, books, books, sandcasting and working with clay, leather and horn, heck I've even weaved and knitted! The best part is not whether I'm good at any of these or got paid enough or at all, it's that I had a blast doing it. This is not meant to indicate how great I am, it's to say how great we all are. They say Goethe was the last man who knew everything and I think that's a shame. Not that I'm against specialisation per se, but I think many of us are discouraged from trying lots of things. They tell us that somehow we are not smart enough, that we should leave it to others. Or else we need to spend a fortune. One answer to all this nay-saying advice is the Zen saying "not always so" and I use it lots of times when I feel hemmed in by popular belief. Sometimes all you need is a big heart. I love those stories that you hear like the guy that would play you a game of eight-ball with a mop and clean out your wallet. Or that guy that flew over L.A. International in his lawn chair tied to weather balloons. When asked why he did it, his reply was "Well, you can't just sit around.." If you're still reading, here's a quote from Benjamin Hoff: "To use our minds in the way we normally do, is about as inefficient and inappropriate as using a magic sword to open a can of beans". And now I'll climb off my box.. Oh, OT content: magic sword Adriaan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157823 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-06 21:12:02 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. > Congrats - it is a slippey slope. > Thanks Joel! I'll have to look up the Kirby method then. Sounds like there are many ways to accomplish the task..the key is seeing which works best for you. Interesting comment about the wood. A co-worker who does woodworking suggested the same thing. He actually suggested popler since it's not pricy. Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157824 ---- From: Jim Erdman Date: 2006-03-06 19:43:46 Subject: Re: New bronze in the shop... --- nicknaylo@a... wrote: Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a > few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them > together, then trim the > glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the > pulleys. The bright > orange is a little distracting. A "proper" style leather belt would require you to obtain the right tools for trimming and installing it, such as a Scholhorn/Sargent nifty little plier-like device that trims the end of a round leather belt and punches a hole for the little wire clip that splices the ends together, and is made in different sizes for different belt diameters. But maybe you don't "need" any more tools?? Jim Erdman (in Menomonie, WI) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157825 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-06 19:44:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Wendy--- It may not be of any interest to you, but the dovetail joint works very well in plywood and (with good quality ply) it looks cool. I work with ply and construction timbers for a living and use handtools on this kinda junk all the time---I do believe that plywood dulls saws faster than the regular solid wood does, but not so very much faster. Chisels and planes are made of much sterner stuff (which is why you can't file their cutting edges, as you do with saws) and plywood hurts them not at all. You'll find a dovetail method that suits you, if you cut a bunch of dovetails, and you'll be pleasantly surprised to discover how easy it is to do, especially so if you aren't working with expensive and can't-make-a-mistake kinds of wood. Poplar is good stuff, in my experience---very soft, yes, but not as soft as cardboard---and cardboard lasts a long time---everything made from wood, even paper, does that. welcome to the Porch, and best to you in your endeavour; gAM in Seattle --- Wendy Sarrett wrote: > > > Congrats - it is a slippey slope. > > > Thanks Joel! > > I'll have to look up the Kirby method then. Sounds like there are > many ways > to accomplish the task..the key is seeing which works best for you. > > Interesting comment about the wood. A co-worker who does > woodworking > suggested the same thing. He actually suggested popler since it's > not pricy. > > Wendy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves. Robert A Heinlein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157826 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-06 21:51:05 Subject: RE: Chris Pye Tutorials Adriaan and Galoots--Ah, my kingdom for a hard-nosed generalist! I really appreciate your perspective. Like you, if it catches my attention then it is fair game for follow-up investigation, reading and implementation. When you consider how short our time here is, it seems a shame not to take in as many experiences as you desire. My house may collapse under the weight of the books on multiple topics, my shop is so crowded that I have to wear a hardhat and everywhere is something that is of interest. I had a computer techie in today and planes kept falling on the Ethernet box every time he moved something. I think I paid for half his time as he explored wood planes, hanging maps and books. He had such a good time, I hated to see him go! He left with information for his father-in-law on outboard bowl turning as well. I spent much of my early life doing what you mention---not doing something because somebody else could do it better. What silliness! We have created a culture where educated folks know more and more about less and less. I crave to know more about more and more things. I just finished the book on Live Oaking that was recommended by someone on the list. I may stay out of the swamp--but only for now! Been working on my embroidery--and I am not kidding. Channel that testosterone! Now, I have to say I think you have surpassed my generalist tendencies and my hat is off to you. May you continue on the path you have chosen. Be careful with that Infill project, it may be the ultimate slippery slope to normalcy. Sort of like living in a town named Normal! I never want to deprecate the specialists. They have much to teach us and they can become true repositories of living historical techniques. But, we all have a unique perspective on how we learn, what we learn and even why we learn. There is a lot of room in the old tool world for diversity. I have always liked the Kipling story about the 9 blind men of Hindustan who all describe the elephant by describing that part to which they have latched on. The old tool world is sort of like that. We can latch on to one part or we can embrace the whole d(*n elephant of it--if we want. I was on my soapbox, but I put my foot through it. They just don't make soapboxes like they used to when I was young. Paul in Normal > > I'm with you Paul, specialisation is for insects :> > And perfection is the > voice of the oppressor. > > If you're still reading, here's a quote from Benjamin > Hoff: "To use our minds > in the way we normally do, is about as inefficient and > inappropriate as using > a magic sword to open a can of beans". > > And now I'll climb off my box.. > > Oh, OT content: magic sword > > Adriaan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157827 ---- From: buz.buskirk@e... Date: 2006-03-06 23:04:00 Subject: Free to a good home... I have one copy each of M.J. Donnelly's Catatlogue of Antique Tools, 2000 edition M.J. Donnelly's Catatlogue of Antique Tools, 2002 edition Don't know how I ended up with extras. Ping me off-list with an address. -- Buz Buskirk Richmond, Kentucky ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157828 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-07 15:15:55 Subject: Re: Chris Pye Tutorials Paul, I say in all sincerity, you are not alone!!! Peter B, Australia paul schobernd wrote: >My house may collapse under the weight of the books on multiple topics, my >shop is so crowded that I have to wear a hardhat and everywhere is something >that is of interest........... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157829 ---- From: "Wesley G." Date: 2006-03-06 22:43:29 Subject: Re: New bronze in the shop... Michael, I think Slav has a supply of the real leather stuff that would work for your gizmo. (If you get tired of the orange...) At least there's less of a chance of your being shot by Quail hunters. Cheers, Wes On Mar 6, 2006, at 12:41 PM, nicknaylo@a... wrote: > Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them together, then trim > the glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the pulleys. The > bright orange is a little distracting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157830 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-06 22:49:04 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Monday 06 March 2006 02:46 pm, Joel Mccarty wrote: > Personally I'm a large fan on Ian Kirby's method which > relies more on paring than chopping interested I'll post a longer description> but > whatever works for you. That style works ok also. For folks that are curious about that style, George Huron has a video on the web that shows similar, paring out the waste. George cuts the bulk of the waste out with a coping saw. (WARNING: bandwidth can be challenging on this server, best to download first) http://www.springharvestfww.com/images/dovetail.mpg Spring Harvest is George's school, and he also writes in FWW (some of you might recognize his name) and Woodcraft's ma. > I wholeheartedly agree. After struggling with pine I > bought about 3BF of Mahogany and made about 10 sets of > dovetails. World of difference as the wood works so > well with handtools you can focus more on your > technique I used to practice with pine, as I had/have a bunch of 1x6 t&g scraps from a project I did. What I found is that if you have sharp chisels, it not bad wood to work with. Frank Klausz uses 1/2" pine for the sides. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157831 ---- From: "travis anderson-bond" Date: 2006-03-07 18:19:06 Subject: Re: froe handling Using my froe more is on my list of things to do, so I speak from limited experience, but... In hindsight, I wish I had (1) made my handle longer [more leverage], and (2) mounted it upside down. You can always trim the handle to length if you find it's too long, and gets in the way; more awkward to lengthen it. And if you have it hanging down, you can brace your hand against the log and pull directly away, rather than having the froe handle extend like a bayonet out the end of the log, and trying to find a way to "break it over your knee" at the point of contact. Again, in my limited experience... --Travis (in mildly warm, but rather muggy, Brisbane, Australia) On 3/4/06, Bill Kasper wrote: > i just received a fantastic blacksmith-made froe from bruce z., and i > have a question about handling it. > > rather than being conical (wide on the sharp blade side) so it can be > slid on and off of a handle, it's actually waisted, with the waist > about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom (sharp blade side), flaring > less on the bottom 1/3 than on the top. > > should i just carve the handle so it slip fits the size of the waist, > flaring to accept the bottom 1/3 so it doesn't slip off? or make a > "permanent" handle? and how long? i have a nice hunk of ash from > roger van maren (thanks to both roger and bruce!!) i thought to use, > it's about 16" long. otherwise i have a nice length of persimmon > branch that might work... > > best, > bill > felton, ca > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157832 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-07 07:22:20 Subject: Re: froe handling > Using my froe more is on my list of things to do, so I speak from > limited experience, but... Me too. > And if you have it hanging down, you can brace your hand against the > log and pull directly away, rather than having the froe handle extend > like a bayonet out the end of the log, and trying to find a way to > "break it over your knee" at the point of contact. I have a Woodcraft froe; it seems OK, and it's opened a world of firewood-for-project-use that wasn't there before. The handle sticks up, and I smack it into the work until the blade is well-seated. There's a motion where you push the top of the workpiece away from you while pulling sharply on the handle that seems to work well. If it doesn't split cleanly, smack it in a little deeper and try again. I've run into two problems: twisted grain (like elm) and knotty areas. I've been unsuccessful with either, and at that point, if I have to work with that particular piece of wood, I switch to a ripsaw if I need both sides, or a smoothing hatchet if I just need one side. I haven't had much luck splitting thin pieces off the outside, but heck, that's what the hatchet is for anyway. YMMV, Gary K Close to Buffalo NY. USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157833 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-07 06:52:28 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Wendy, As if you already didn't have enough to read/research... This link is to a list of links having specifically to do with laying out and cutting dovetails. http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=70 If you check out the rest of the site, you will find over 1000 links to hand tools related websites, articles and posts. Happy surfing. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157834 ---- From: "Bretton Wade" Date: 2006-03-07 08:09:56 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they never say exactly where. PatinaTools.org reports this: "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that I couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there contact info? How about an address? I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to call the local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he has better things to do than answer "where" questions repeatedly when he's trying to prepare for a meet. And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right coast. I guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea markets to bother getting together. OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. They're sitting on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those stuffy cardboard boxes... -- Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157835 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-07 08:19:13 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On 06 Mar, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Joel Mccarty wrote: > > Wendy cuts her first set of hand dovetails > > Personally I'm a large fan on Ian Kirby's method which > relies more on paring than chopping interested I'll post a longer description> but > whatever works for you. > Hello all - I'm a big fan of Mr. Kirby's method and his little book, The Complete Dovetail. It is clear and comprehensive and readily available through the usual online resources for about ten bucks. Thank you. Ian. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157836 ---- From: "Chuck Myers" Date: 2006-03-07 07:22:40 Subject: RE: New bronze in the shop... -- or -- You could just contact Keith De'Grau: http://www.handamerican.com/belt.html Reasonable prices, great quality and service, IME. Going back to a couple of other reasonably recent threads, Keith also has a good selection of honing compounds for use with all the leather products he makes. When the compounds are applied to a belt, driven in whatever way one prefers, the result is an incredibly effective hone. (Or you can get a belt made of Keith's specially treated honing leather and use it without a compound.) Depending on where/how the edge makes contact with the belt, you get either a flat or rounded alternative to the hard felt wheels discussed at some length a few months ago. Chuck Myers, in a hermetically sealed environment in Nashville --- nicknaylo@a... wrote: Hardest part was fusing the belt, took a > few trys to scarf it, > melt the ends in a candle flame and stick them > together, then trim the > glob of plastic so the belt would move thru the > pulleys. The bright > orange is a little distracting. A "proper" style leather belt would require you to obtain the right tools for trimming and installing it, such as a Scholhorn/Sargent nifty little plier-like device that trims the end of a round leather belt and punches a hole for the little wire clip that splices the ends together, and is made in different sizes for different belt diameters. But maybe you don't "need" any more tools?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157837 ---- From: Bill Ghio Date: 2006-03-07 08:25:36 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 From the PATINA newsletter: "... 10211 Lewis Drive, Damascus, MD. Lewis drive is located off Route 27 (Ridge road) which connects directly to with I-270 (north and south) and I-70 (east and west)." On Tuesday, March 7, 2006, at 08:09 AM, Bretton Wade wrote: > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they > never say exactly where. > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the > Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 > lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from > around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association > Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that I couldn't > miss the event if I tried? Is there contact info? How about an > address? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157838 ---- From: Bill Webber Date: 2006-03-07 08:38:11 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 Bretton, Put "Lewis Dr, Damascus, MD 20872" into: http://maps.google.com/ Should get you all you need. Lewis Dr is a small street. There will be 100 cars around the fire house and hall... you won't miss it. Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/wWebber/ Bretton Wade wrote: > >PatinaTools.org reports this: > >"The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the >Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 >lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from >around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." > >But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association >Activity Center is. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157839 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-07 08:52:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. aland@s... writes: George cuts the bulk of the waste out with a coping saw. John notes: Rob Cosman also uses a coping saw to remove the bulk of the waste. His 2 DVDs on cutting dovetails are clear and have been very helpful to me. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157840 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 07:50:44 Subject: RE: Events - was PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus We can try to post info on www.OldToolsShop.com. If there is enough commitment from the List members To send relevant information, I will create Events section and post there everything I receive from the list members. Please use first post as a format to send your info. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Bretton Wade > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:10 AM > To: lunytools@a... > Cc: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > Maryland March 11 > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the > web, they never say exactly where. > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March > 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association > Activity Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at > auction and antique tool dealers from around the USA will > display tools and related merchandise..." > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire > Association Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small > place that I couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there > contact info? How about an address? > > I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to > call the local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he > has better things to do than answer "where" questions > repeatedly when he's trying to prepare for a meet. > > And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. > There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right > coast. I guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea > markets to bother getting together. > > OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the > basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. They're > sitting on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those > stuffy cardboard boxes... > > -- > Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157841 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-07 09:01:05 Subject: Re: RE: Events - was PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Wiktor, appreciate the offer, but we've already got a good start on this, with tools in place and self posting with workflow enabled. Folks can post events into the queue or send event info to be posted. No manual web pages to code... What you won't find there is in depth tutorials! You've got that covered in spades and gettin' better every day!! See the Galoot Events on galootcentral.com cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin On 3/7/06, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > We can try to post info on www.OldToolsShop.com. > > If there is enough commitment from the List members > To send relevant information, I will create Events section > and post there everything I receive from the list members. > > Please use first post as a format to send your info. > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > > Bretton Wade > > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:10 AM > > To: lunytools@a... > > Cc: oldtools@r... > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > > Maryland March 11 > > > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the > > web, they never say exactly where. > > > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March > > 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association > > Activity Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at > > auction and antique tool dealers from around the USA will > > display tools and related merchandise..." > > > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire > > Association Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small > > place that I couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there > > contact info? How about an address? > > > > I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to > > call the local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he > > has better things to do than answer "where" questions > > repeatedly when he's trying to prepare for a meet. > > > > And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. > > There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right > > coast. I guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea > > markets to bother getting together. > > > > OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the > > basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. They're > > sitting on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those > > stuffy cardboard boxes... > > > > -- > > Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > > history, usage, value, location, availability, > > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > > especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157842 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 08:20:25 Subject: RE: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 OK... Here is the start for Event Calendar. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zMisc/calendar.asp Another way to do it is: Can someone volunteer to be a central point for gathering info? We can all submit calendars to that person. The Calendar Editor will edit, check and format information and send it all to me. Maybe alternate Editor as well? Please let me know... Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Bill Ghio > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:26 AM > To: Bretton_Wade@a... > Cc: oldtools@r...; lunytools@a... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > Maryland March 11 > > From the PATINA newsletter: "... 10211 Lewis Drive, > Damascus, MD. Lewis drive is located off Route 27 (Ridge > road) which connects directly to with I-270 (north and south) > and I-70 (east and west)." > > On Tuesday, March 7, 2006, at 08:09 AM, Bretton Wade wrote: > > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the > web, they > > never say exactly where. > > > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on > March 11 at the > > Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity > Center. Over 600 > > lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool > dealers from > > around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." > > > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association > > Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that > I couldn't > > miss the event if I tried? Is there contact info? How about an > > address? > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157843 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 08:31:19 Subject: RE: RE: Events - was PATINA Antique Tool Show We....? Hm... Dividing attention of the group to more sites, different centers of information,... This is really good approach! Congratulation Jim - Good thinking. How about working together on something? Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim Esten > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:01 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] RE:Events - was PATINA Antique Tool > Show DamascusMaryland March 11 > > Wiktor, appreciate the offer, but we've already got a good > start on this, with tools in place and self posting with > workflow enabled. > Folks can post events into the queue or send event info to be posted. > No manual web pages to code... > > What you won't find there is in depth tutorials! You've got > that covered in spades and gettin' better every day!! > > See the Galoot Events on galootcentral.com > > cheers all, > > Jim E #2 in Wisconsin > > On 3/7/06, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > > > We can try to post info on www.OldToolsShop.com. > > > > If there is enough commitment from the List members To send > relevant > > information, I will create Events section and post there > everything I > > receive from the list members. > > > > Please use first post as a format to send your info. > > > > Wiktor A. Kuc > > Albuquerque, NM > > 505-323-8482 > > www.OldToolsShop.com > > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > > > Bretton Wade > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:10 AM > > > To: lunytools@a... > > > Cc: oldtools@r... > > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus > Maryland > > > March 11 > > > > > > I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, > > > they never say exactly where. > > > > > > PatinaTools.org reports this: > > > > > > "The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March > > > 11 at the Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity > > > Center. Over 600 lots of tools will be offered at auction and > > > antique tool dealers from around the USA will display tools and > > > related merchandise..." > > > > > > But even google doesn't know where the Volunteer Fire Association > > > Activity Center is. Is Damascus, MD such a small place that I > > > couldn't miss the event if I tried? Is there contact > info? How about > > > an address? > > > > > > I had a similar problem with the MWTCA meet, and I had to > call the > > > local club guy listed on the website. I'm sure he has > better things > > > to do than answer "where" questions repeatedly when he's > trying to > > > prepare for a meet. > > > > > > And in a nit - I miss the bi-monthly meetings of the PNTC. > > > There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the right coast. I > > > guess everybody gets too busy at all the flea markets to bother > > > getting together. > > > > > > OT content? I've just started getting my "shop" set up in the > > > basement, and almost all of my tools are unpacked. > They're sitting > > > on my bench in a big pile, but they're out of those > stuffy cardboard > > > boxes... > > > > > > -- > > > Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Parkton, MD > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---------- > > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > > > usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and > > > restoration of traditional handtools, especially > woodworking tools. > > > > > > To read the FAQ: > > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > > > OldTools archive: > > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > > > OldTools@r... > > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of > hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157844 ---- From: "Kaye, Danny" Date: 2006-03-07 16:11:58 Subject: RE: Graver a graver is also the hand held tool used with a watchmakers lathe Danny Kaye Course Leader Multimedia 0115 848 2231 07968 113686 ________________________________ From: oldtools-bounces@r... on behalf of Ed in Ottawa Sent: Mon 06/03/2006 20:41 To: Jack Kamishlian; oldtools Subject: Re: [OldTools] Graver Greetings to the porch! For the more curious, these are the cutting heads used in an electron powered rotary engraving / lettering machine, such as the type you find at the local locksmith or jeweller. The machine engraves characters in metal or plastic, and the use of a pantographic arm allows the creation of various font sizes of the character templates used. Some of you may have had the "lamacoid" plastic versions on your office doors on on your desk, with the coloured foreground and white lettering that appears after removal of the coloured surface layer. Regards, ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157845 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-07 11:25:33 Subject: Re: PATINA Antique Tool Show Damascus Maryland At 08:09 AM 3/7/2006, Bretton Wade wrote: >I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they >never say exactly where. > >PatinaTools.org reports this: > >"The 2006 Spring Tool Sale and Auction will be held on March 11 at the >Damascus Maryland Volunteer Fire Association Activity Center. Over 600 >lots of tools will be offered at auction and antique tool dealers from >around the USA will display tools and related merchandise..." I had posted this before back in Feb but.......... Directions to the show. http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm The quick version. Get off of I-70 at the Damascus Exit and head south towards Damascus. Right when you get into town there will be a stop light with a McDonald's on the far left corner. Turn right and then turn right again (about 50 ft). I want to say it's about 3/4's of a mile or so, but I never clocked it. You can't miss it. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157846 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-07 11:33:16 Subject: Great old tool link Esteemed Galoots, In searching for information on the different configurations of the famed Norris adjuster I've stumbled across a website that is new to me and that I've not seen mention of anyplace else. www.handplane.com has some excellent articles, measured drawings, and catalogue scans. It's a little commercial looking, but if you stick to the navigation bar on the left side you can find some great stuff. There's quite a bit of good info on infills here, including scans of the 1914 and 1928 Norris catalogues. I've no affiliation with the website etc. etc. -Andy Windsor, VT ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157847 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-03-07 11:53:04 Subject: RE: Graver And for those who are "letter carving challenged" they can also be used on wood. I used mine to make a number of different presentation plaques for Cub Scouts, though it takes a fairly large machine to be able to handle wood of any size. Walnut worked pretty well. But since we're a hand tool group we should just learn to carve them by hand. How much time could that take, after all? (both the learning and execution B^)) Jim Foster Minnesota PS: These have nothing in common with either hand gravers, gravers for your watchmaking lathe, or for use in your Gravermeister. > > > Greetings to the porch! > > For the more curious, these are the cutting heads used in an > electron powered rotary engraving / lettering machine, such > as the type you find at the local locksmith or jeweller. The > machine engraves characters in metal or plastic, and the use > of a pantographic arm allows the creation of various font > sizes of the character templates used. Some of you may have > had the "lamacoid" plastic versions on your office doors on > on your desk, with the coloured foreground and white > lettering that appears after removal of the coloured surface layer. > > Regards, ed > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157848 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-07 12:28:31 Subject: Minimum necessary event information, www.thescorre.org/calendar Anthony Seo wrote: > At 08:09 AM 3/7/2006, Bretton Wade wrote: > >> I've noticed a problem with events getting reported via the web, they >> never say exactly where. >> >> PatinaTools.org reports this: >> Location with no useable street address snipped > > I had posted this before back in Feb but.......... > > Directions to the show. > > http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm > I think a point is getting lost in the Patina directions. The original request was for a useable in map software address so someone could find the event without combing past porch notices looking for directions. Ms. Software-tester-from-user-point-of-view noticed that Tony included a URL with what looks like directions. (Good!) Going to the main Patina site I can't find them (not so good). The event listing is what Bretton posted, "meetings" lists when but not where at all, and Auction Information lists the location but again no address. I haven't poked in FAQ's or references, but the "obvious" choices don't tell me what I need if I find out I am available at the last minute. This is not to diss a volunteer site maintained by volunteers, it is to point out that not everyone has been here before and knows the area. Multiply by all the galoot events in the country... I also play in the SCA which has "standard" events, but we have a requirement that to publicise an event you must include complete directions. This clues the website folks that it is easiest to cut and paste the hardcopy information to the web, so I can always find directions at the last minute. Galooting is not so organised, but if we could remind folks occasionally we might find more newcomers? www.thescorre.org/calendar/index.htm is the calendar for my local chapter for an example. Esther (for whom auctions are definitely not in the budget or on the calendar at the moment) -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157849 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 10:01:10 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 05:52 am, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > aland@s... writes: > > George > cuts the bulk of the waste out with a coping saw. > > John notes: > > Rob Cosman also uses a coping saw to remove the bulk of the waste. His 2 > DVDs on cutting dovetails are clear and have been very helpful to me. John, Rob Cosman's videos are excellent. I think Rob uses a fret saw, at least that's what he says, but either way he cuts most of the waste out with it, then chops both sides with a mallet/chisel. One advantage of *most* coping saws vs. fret saws is that the blade will rotate in a coping saw. In a fret saw, the blade is thinner, but *typically* doesn't rotate, so you may need a deep throat fret saw (I have an old Miller Falls with about 12" depth). With a rotating blade it allows a saw with a shallow throat to angle the blade so you can cut waste on long sections of dovetails. The blades in themself are different as coping saws have the pins on the end of the blade to secure them, and a fret saw is held securely on the flat of the blade (if that makes sense). Would be nice to have a fret saw that rotates as a coping saw (Cosman seems to have one from watching his video). I've been thinking about modifying a coping saw to do just that. The reason is that for a dovetail saw which is typically pretty thin, the fret saw blade fits in the kerf easily, where a coping saw blade doesn't, and requires a larger 2 passes/cuts from the inside of the waste over (unless one wants to risk damaging the saw kerf). The method George, and if I remember correctly...Ian Kirby use, is to par the waste by leaning into it (opposed to using a mallet). Of course there are many ways to skin this cat, and another method is to chisel out the waste entirely by popping slivers of waste from the end grain. There's tons of great info, online, videos, books, classes which are available these days. Folks are pretty fortunate to have such a resource of information available. I would highly reccomend Ralph Laughton's book, "Success with Joints", my kids got it for me for the holidays. It is a great book for folks starting down the path of hand cut joinery, and this book is focused on cutting joinery with hand tools. One of the few I've seen focused using hand tools for various joinery. It shows the basics of cutting a good majority of the common joints, such as m&t, miters, butt & edge, notched and half, dovetails, dados, sliding dovetails, etc...all with hand tools. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157850 ---- From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" Date: 2006-03-07 13:21:16 Subject: Harrelson Stanley Sharpening Class Report Short Summary: If Harrelson Stanley (of http://www.japanesetools.com) is in your area (probably at the local Woodcraft) giving a Free Hand Sharpening Seminar and you think you might like to go, you should. It's likely to be a very useful, interesting and rewarding experience. Long Report: Back last fall, Ken Pendergrass mentioned on this list that he had just attended a sharpening demonstration given by Harrelson Stanley and found it to be extremely valuable. His comments are here: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id- =152072&submit_thread=1#message With my interest raised, I checked the Japanese Tools web site and saw that Mr. Stanley would be giving the same demo at my local (Albany NY area) woodcraft very soon. Happiness! On the appointed day, I scheduled a long lunch and headed down to Woodcraft. There I found that the demo had been canceled. Sadness! I left my name to be contacted if the demo was rescheduled. As it turns out the demo was canceled because Mr. Stanley had simply "petered out" (was "knackered" (I think), Jeff). He had literally been driving all over the country in a Motor Home giving free demos and it was ultimately too draining financially and energy wise to keep going. Now he plans on giving a more lengthy seminar for paying students (my class was $75) for a longer period (my class was scheduled for 3 hours). I was fortunate in that he gave his first class here at the Albany area Woodcraft this past Saturday. Those of us (8) attending where told to bring in a #4 Plane Iron, 3/4 and 1/4" chisels and a non-serrated knife. Mr. Stanley (who is the USA rep for Shapton Stones) brought sharpening stations for use by each student. These stations consisted of a lapping plate, sharpening tray and 1000,2000,4000,8000,15000 & 30000(!) grit Shapton water stones. The class started with some discussion of Mr. Stanley's background (which is amazing. Among other things he lived for 8 years in Japan apprenticing at various woodworking/craft related tasks). He also spent time talking about the physics and (for lack of a better words) "spirit" of sharpening. Once we got to the business of sharpening (which might have been delayed a bit too much by the introductory material but he's still "tuning" the class) we set to work getting our plane irons as sharp as we possibly could. Mr. Stanley used the analogy of learning Golf to emphasize that we were primarily there to learn the body mechanics and grip required to sharpen quickly and effectively. Mr. Stanley teaches sharpening in a side to side freehand style (no jigs). For me this was a revelation. I always found it difficult to "lock" the appropriate honing angle and tended to rock the blade when using the usual back and forth motion. With a side to side motion, locking the angle is easier (for me at least) when the honing motion doesn't apply any force against the honing angle (since it's at right angles to it). He also taught a number of other sometimes unexpected techniques (there was an audible gasp when he jointed the plane iron on the 30k stone after the 1000 grit honing step. He didn't repeat that after subsequent grits :-)) Overall he's just a fascinating person to listen to and learn from and I greatly enjoyed the class. The value of having someone watch how you're doing something and point out corrections especially for something that has to be physically learned is hard to overstate. Mr. Stanley is still working out the details of his future class schedule, but as I said if you see him showing up in your area I highly recommend the class. Best, Keith in Ballston Lake Where the shave horse made from BORG cull lumber is almost done. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157851 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-07 13:26:02 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Alan Writes: Rob Cosman's videos are excellent. I think Rob uses a fret saw, at least that's what he says, but either way he cuts most of the waste out with it, then chops both sides with a mallet/chisel. One advantage of *most* coping saws vs. fret saws is that the blade will rotate in a coping saw. In a fret saw, the blade is thinner, but *typically* doesn't rotate, so you may need a deep throat fret saw (I have an old Miller Falls with about 12" depth). With a rotating blade it allows a saw with a shallow throat to angle the blade so you can cut waste on long sections of dovetails. The blades in themself are different as coping saws have the pins on the end of the blade to secure them, and a fret saw is held securely on the flat of the blade (if that makes sense). Would be nice to have a fret saw that rotates as a coping saw (Cosman seems to have one from watching his video). I've been thinking about modifying a coping saw to do just that. The reason is that for a dovetail saw which is typically pretty thin, the fret saw blade fits in the kerf easily, where a coping saw blade doesn't, and requires a larger 2 passes/cuts from the inside of the waste over (unless one wants to risk damaging the saw kerf). John replies: The saw he uses (fret/coping/schmoping) has a very thin blade so that is easily fits into the kerf made by his L-N(??) dovetail saw. I don't think he uses a rotating fret saw. He demonstrates in the DVD how to get around the need for a deep throated (or rotating bladed) saw, by taking a pair of pliers and putting just a slight (30-45 degree???) twist in each end of the blade so that when the blade is cutting parallel to the bottom of the dovetail or pin, the opposing frame of the blade easily clears the top of the dovetail or pin. I tried it and it works slicker than snot on a doorknob. No need to cut twice from different directions as in George's demonstration. Cheers, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157852 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 11:11:47 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 10:26 am, sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > He demonstrates in the DVD how to > get around the need for a deep throated (or rotating bladed) saw, by > taking a pair of pliers and putting just a slight (30-45 degree???) > twist in each end of the blade so that when the blade is cutting > parallel to the bottom of the dovetail or pin, the opposing frame of > the blade easily clears the top of the dovetail or pin. I'll have to go back and look at that closer, I do have the video. I thought the saw had some type of swivel on there, but if I understand what you're saying, this is just done on a typical fret saw, by galootin' the ends of the blades. Yes, I also like using a fret saw over a coping saw as I prefer to use a thin kerf also. It all depends on the wood, and the saw. I have a hard time keeping the fret blade inside some of the jeweler's style fret saw (with sliding adjustable frame). The Miller Falls works partially on frame tension, and secures the blade well, so have been using it. I only have 2 fret saws, and my jeweler's style has crappy blade clamps, need to figure something out there. I'm gonna check that video out again, seems I missed that specific. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't watch close enough...;-) It did look like he was using what I called a jeweler's style fret saw above. Seems that putting a fret blade on a modified coping saw (if they'll fit, seems I have a coping saw the proper width). Of course the Miller Falls has 12" of throat and a nice old wooden handle, with ornate type thumbscrews. Bonus points: Were there smaller throated Miller Falls fret saws? With the same old style tumbscrews, I think late 1800s possibly? I'd love to find a smaller one. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157853 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-07 12:28:37 Subject: RE: Minimum necessary event information, Ester made very good points about information usability. I made changes to what I proposed and also received necessary info from Dave Leader, including a map and places to stay description. Since Dave volunteered, from now on he is the Events Editor... (in my eyes...). Dave, you know that this is a free country and you can say NO. ;-) Here is what I have so far: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/zMisc/calendar/calendar.asp Ester, if you can please look at this and let me know If this is workable? Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > Subject: Minimum necessary event information,was: Re: > [OldTools] PATINA AntiqueTool Show Damascus Maryland March 11 > - Directions > > > > I think a point is getting lost in the Patina directions. > The original request was for a useable in map software > address so someone could find the event without combing past > porch notices looking for directions. > > Ms. Software-tester-from-user-point-of-view noticed that Tony > included a URL with what looks like directions. (Good!) Going > to the main Patina site I can't find them (not so good). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157854 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-07 14:39:40 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it? Tom Ellis Dayton, OH > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Alan DuBoff > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:12 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. > > On Tuesday 07 March 2006 10:26 am, sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > > He demonstrates in the DVD how to > > get around the need for a deep throated (or rotating bladed) saw, by > > taking a pair of pliers and putting just a slight (30-45 degree???) > > twist in each end of the blade so that when the blade is cutting > > parallel to the bottom of the dovetail or pin, the opposing frame of > > the blade easily clears the top of the dovetail or pin. > > I'll have to go back and look at that closer, I do have the > video. I thought > the saw had some type of swivel on there, but if I understand > what you're > saying, this is just done on a typical fret saw, by galootin' > the ends of the > blades. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157855 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-07 14:45:57 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Alan wrote; I'm gonna check that video out again, seems I missed that specific. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't watch close enough...;-) It did look like he was using what I called a jeweler's style fret saw above. John replies: Note that Rob Cosman has two 'How to' dovetail videos/dvds. The first focuses soley on through dovetails, the second focuses on three more advanced types (llap, houndstooth, etc.). I don't recall in which one of the two he demonstrates how he modifys his fret saw. It's been a while since I've watched them, but IIRC he does use what I would call a jeweler's style saw (but then I called a fret saw a coping saw--so what do I know!). Cheers, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157856 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-07 13:50:15 Subject: RE: Minimum necessary event information, Gentle Galoots, I guess I'm a little confused. There's already a fully-functional calendar on Galoot Central. Granted, not many people have put information on it yet, but it's there for all to use. Anyone can post information, or submit it to one of the admins at GC and they will post it. http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=NuCalendar I'm not sure why we're reinventing the wheel, but I'm certainly willing to let the market decide. Let's see which calendar people want. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157857 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-07 13:54:06 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Tom pondered: :I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing :removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing :compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it? It's the difference between paring and chopping. If you don't cut out the waste, a chopping action is necessary. When most of the waste is gone, a paring action is adequate. I guess some Galoots (like me) are more comfortable and feel more in control when paring then when chopping. I've seen a demonstration where the chopping action tends to undercut the joint (even with a perfectly vertical chisel - it's a matter of the failure of the wood fibers). Granted, this is end grain and not really a viable gluing surface anyway - so I guess it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other. Rob in Peoria, who has yet to successfully cut dovetails... 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157858 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-07 14:56:44 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Tom wonders: I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it? John (who is not an experienced dovetailer) opines: It requires less effort to get a good job, less opportunity for an inexperienced dovetailer to screw up, less chisel sharpening, and It's bunches faster for me, especially if I get the fret saw cut close to the line. I note that in Cosman's video demonstrations, it only takes him a couple of chops to finish the task. Cheers, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157859 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-07 12:11:04 Subject: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Assembled Galoots, On Saturday, I was the fortunate attendee at the first ever travisher making class at John Wilson's Home Shop in Charlotte, Mi. This is the third or fourth tool making class I've been to with Gil as the instructor and I've enjoyed them all immensely. It's been said here before, but if you get the chance to take a woodworking or toolmaking class, take advantage of it. Ours is a mostly solitary hobby so it's a great opportunity to learn and share ideas with fellow tool enthusiasts. This was the first time that Gil has taught this particular subject so it was a learning process for all, but I must say that it succeeded spectacularly. We started the morning making the blade. Gil supplied O1 stock that had been cut in the shape of the blade. We proceeded to grind the bevel then bend the stock to the circular shape of the sole of the travisher using hardwood blocks and a vise for a press. As I remember, the blade had a 3 1/2" radius. We then heated and bent the tangs to 90 degrees (more or less) to a horizontal tangent at the center of the blade. We finished the initial metal work by hardening and tempering the blade. The little time left in the morning was spent doing layout on the hard maple stock of the travisher. The wood work was very similar to making a spokeshave. After lunch, we chiseled out the escapement, then made the mortises for the tangs. Gil used an interesting technique to do this. A hole was first drilled in the stock and then we got to use fire again to heat a square rod and burn a square hole by pressing the heated rod through the hole. We then fit the blade to the stock and cut out outline of the sole. The profile of the sole was then refined by sanding to match the curve of the blade exactly. The blade is held in the stock by set screws, so at this point the hole for the set screws were drilled and tapped. Finally, the top and edges of the stock were cut out for the desired shape. The rest of the day was spent sharpening and honing the blade and cleaning up the stock of the travisher using files and rasps. I had a little bit of cleaning up to do at home before finishing, but left the class with a working travisher. I am pleased with the way my travisher turned out. It looks good and cuts really well in my opinion. A big thanks to John Wilson for hosting the class, Gil Chesbro for sharing his knowledge and expertise with us and his patience for working through the problems, and also thanks to Gil's lovely assistant, Wes Groot, for providing an extra hand and knowledgable opinion. Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi. where it looks like spring could be just around the corner. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157860 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-07 15:22:07 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > > John replies: > > Note that Rob Cosman has two 'How to' dovetail videos/dvds. The first > focuses soley on through dovetails, the second focuses on three more > advanced types (llap, houndstooth, etc.). I don't recall in which one > of the two he demonstrates how he modifys his fret saw. > > It's been a while since I've watched them, but IIRC he does use what I > would call a jeweler's style saw (but then I called a fret saw a coping > saw--so what do I know!). > The original discussion was "turning a corner" cutting out most of the waste making dovetails. The magic isn't the saw type (to me "coping" is the ~6" blade with pins, fret/jeweler's is the clamp pads holding a random length blade that gets shorter as you keep breaking it ;-), but the width of the blade with respect to the material. A jewel(l)er can easily turn a right angle in little more than the width of the kerf cutting out jewelry scale sheet metal (but you break a lot of blades learning and a few when you are good, they are sold by the gross). I would suspect having not seen the video that Crosman is doing the same thing on a bigger scale, no funky blade or saw mods needed. Any basic "how to cut out jewelry shapes" beginning jewelry book would explain the details, if you want to experiment, try cutting progressively sharper arcs until you are turning a corner. I do know the kerf can't be much less then the width (not thickness) of the blade which is why you break so many. Esther -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157861 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-07 13:52:57 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Tom asks "Since you have to pare the bottom of the cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only way that Klausz does it?" I saw out as much waste as possible and then chop out the rest because if I don't saw out most of the waste first, my first chop will often mar the cut. I'll try and explain why. When paring or chopping out dovetail waste, you are driving a wedge into the wood. Since the incline plane of the chisel point is facing the waste, it tends to drive the flat back of the chisel into the non-waste wood if the waste puts up much resistance. This causes the chisel back to dent the wood on the non-waste side of the line you scribed to be the bottom of your dovetail thereby creating a gap in the final joint. When you start chopping on the base of the entire block of waste, it is solid enough for the chisel to wedge against. However, if you saw out most of the waste, then the small amount of waste left over does not provide a solid enough mass for the chisel to wedge against. So instead of being pushed back across the scribe line into your stock, it just slices off the waste. Does that make sense? I'm no dovetail expert. But that's why I do it that way. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157862 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-07 15:55:06 Subject: Re: And This Week's Winner - Redux At 06:30 PM 3/5/2006, genfurn wrote: >Sheesh, Tony, don't be so sensitive. After all, you coulda used it >till it broke and then tried to find another "original" plastic >handle to replace it. I hear ya. Seems to be the week for this kinda nonsense. I had pulled a few more tanged chisels off the shelf, ones with crappy handles, to knock the handles off and to sell as a fixer-upper lot. Well the first one, the tang bolster pretty much covered the end of the handle so there was nothing to grab onto and knock off. You could see that the handle had been split and glued. And either painted or stained with something opaque... Well I chucked it in the vise and grabbed another chisel and a mallet to split it off. Gave it the usual light tap to start it (one doesn't care how current the tetanus shot is, getting jabbed in the hand with a sharp and rusty chisel tang ain't a whole lotta fun, been there done that etc), and the chisel just bounced off. Gave it a harder whack and the same thing. What in ^$*%#)(* is going on here? So applying rule one of blacksmithing (when in doubt get a bigger hammer) in this case a bigger mallet I give it a substantial whack, and a piece goes flying off. The end of the handle that is. Seems that whoever the card carrying member of the Jr. Einstein Club was that did this, when the handle split originally, glued the splits and then glued a piece of some kind of wood sideways across the end of the handle. Grrrr. And it was old glue, not hide glue, not epoxy, but it had a death grip on things. Finally got it knocked off and the old handle split off as nice as you could ask. And people ask me why I drink. And cuss. Tony (where the weather ain't looking too bad other than that whole bunch'a wet heading this way for later in the week) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157863 ---- From: Esther Heller Date: 2006-03-07 15:53:59 Subject: Re: Minimum necessary event information, was: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Robert Weber wrote: > Gentle Galoots, > > I guess I'm a little confused. There's already a fully-functional calendar > on Galoot Central. Granted, not many people have put information on it yet, > but it's there for all to use. Anyone can post information, or submit it to > one of the admins at GC and they will post it. > > http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=NuCalendar > > I'm not sure why we're reinventing the wheel, but I'm certainly willing to > let the market decide. Let's see which calendar people want. > Getting perilously close to off-topic and extremely philosophical for some reason today, I suspect 2 things are going on at once: 1. It was not well known that galootcentral had a calendar feature so people were not feeding it. 2. Some galoots doing major websites have opposing internal maps of the ideal Internet universe. IIRC when Wik first started his website he was thinking in terms of a central repository of information. Some of us have the Usenet point of view that sees a virtue in being decentralised, if something/some one goes down, you lose some things but not everything. Those who were on the big woodworking web discussion that died a few years ago (Badger Pond?) will understand what I mean. If you are trying to be a central repository because you think it is a Darn Good Idea, you will add any features that are demonstrated to be missing, which Wik appears to be doing. If you don't think everything should be in one place (things happen and the traffic gets big which gets expensive) at some point everything in a few places makes you nervous. Rob's link farm is the necessary component if you have multiple locations, it lets you find everything from one location instead of missing links you haven't personally tripped on and saved. But some folks may recall when he started it I suggested some mirrors in case something happened. Here is the test for anyone who wants to know if an event listing is complete: can your wife/mother/GIT/non-woodworking fishing partner find all the information to appear at the event given only what is on the event listing? Or in journalese: who what when where and why? (assume the tester is not from the area and knows no local landmarks). -- Esther Heller bench built Windsor chairs www.estherheller.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157864 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-07 16:07:11 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. > Does that make sense? > > I'm no dovetail expert. But that's why I do it that way. > Makes all kinds of sense, and is, I guess, one of maybe four answers to the question, How do I avoid marring the cutting gauge line? In no particular order.... Take a couple of whacks on a sample of the wood, so you can see how much to allow for "jumping back." This has the limitation that you have a chisel that is narrow enough to move that much ahead in the waste area. Before whacking, make a back-cut into the cutting gauge line, giving you an asymmetrical V at the base of the waste - which has the same limitation as above. Use a coping/fret saw first. Give up and watch a re-run of Law and Order...there seems to be at least one on at any given time. Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: Blake Ashley [mailto:Blake.Ashley@t...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:53 PM > To: Ellis, Thomas; oldtools@r...; Alan DuBoff > Subject: RE: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. > > Tom asks "Since you have to pare the bottom of the > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > way that Klausz does it?" > > I saw out as much waste as possible and then chop out the rest because > if I don't saw out most of the waste first, my first chop > will often mar > the cut. I'll try and explain why. > > When paring or chopping out dovetail waste, you are driving a wedge > into the wood. Since the incline plane of the chisel point is facing > the waste, it tends to drive the flat back of the chisel into the > non-waste wood if the waste puts up much resistance. This causes the > chisel back to dent the wood on the non-waste side of the line you > scribed to be the bottom of your dovetail thereby creating a > gap in the > final joint. When you start chopping on the base of the > entire block of > waste, it is solid enough for the chisel to wedge against. > However, if > you saw out most of the waste, then the small amount of waste > left over > does not provide a solid enough mass for the chisel to wedge against. > So instead of being pushed back across the scribe line into > your stock, > it just slices off the waste. > > Does that make sense? > > I'm no dovetail expert. But that's why I do it that way. > > Blake > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157865 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-07 13:30:33 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Hunter and GGs, I have just uploaded pictures to GIC, but do not have the expertise to make a link to it quite yet. If you go to the Galoot Image Central and look under my file, you should find the pictures. For anyone interested, I stained the travisher using tea(Wes G.s suggestion), applied a coat of BLO and then a couple of coats of shellac, sanded down and applied wax. Jim --- Hunter.COX@i... wrote: > Got any pix? I am in the process of making a > travisher at this point have forged the blade and > tangs, bent the tangs and preliminarily sharpened > the blade next I plan on putting the curve in the > blade then make the body. If you have a pix you > could email that would be great > > Thanks > > Hunter > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157866 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-07 16:23:36 Subject: The Woodworking Channel Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, since I have only been reading about 50% of my email lately, but someone is developing a new web resource, simply called "The Woodworking Channel", will have videos, etc. of various things. Their demo site has a video by Brian Boggs on the drawknife, an excellent introduction to it. http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. You must register for more info. http://www.multicastmedia.com/demos/woodworkingchannel.htm Right now, the demo video is free, don't know if it will stay that way or not. Its worth taking a look at. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157867 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-07 16:24:21 Subject: FW: For your vice collectors, with only one vice http://www.uclick.com/client/zzz/fmc/ Gary Gary Yarrow Two Herbs Workshop 819 Harvey Dunn St. Brookings, SD 57006-0896 www.twoherbs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157868 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 14:52:43 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 11:39 am, Ellis, Thomas wrote: > I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > way that Klausz does it? This is kinda like a loaded question. Frank Klausz, in his video, chops out the waste quickly by first taking a wedge from one side of the waste, flipping it over and wacking the rest of the waste out. This works well with pine, but try this with a piece of hardwood and it's not so easy. The paring method takes thin cuts/slices off the waste to the mark. By cutting the waste out, leaves less to par. This is all kinda confusing at best as there is no single way to cut a dovetail, and some will cut pins first, some tails first, some par, some chop, some cut, some measure, some don't measure, etc... I am in no way an expert, although I have tried most of these methods to come up with what works for me. Different wood gets me to do things differently as well. Speaking for myself, the harder the wood, the more accurate I want my saw cut to be. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157869 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-07 15:05:06 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 12:22 pm, Esther Heller wrote: > I would suspect having not seen the video that Crosman is doing the same > thing on a bigger scale, no funky blade or saw mods needed. Any basic > "how to cut out jewelry shapes" beginning jewelry book would explain the > details, if you want to experiment, try cutting progressively sharper > arcs until you are turning a corner. I do know the kerf can't be much > less then the width (not thickness) of the blade which is why you break > so many. You might not understand the problem it solves then. A coping saw works fine, and many people use one. If you use a thin kerf blade, like the IT/LN dovetail saw, the coping blade is too thick to fit in the kerf, and because of that you have 2 choices. Either cram it in the kerf and risk damaging your saw cut, or cut the waste from the middle and sweep the cut down to one of the corners, then take another cut along the bottom mark. A fret saw fits in the kerf, so it allows you to do exactly as you describe in a beginning jewelry book. The point of using a fret saw (which I completely agree, the blades sure break easy on certain model fret saws;-), is to get to the point where any basic book you describe above can be used. Any book that can explain how to fit a coping saw blade in a narrower kerf would be an interesting read. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157870 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-07 17:09:00 Subject: RE: And This Week's Winner - Redux > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Anthony Seo > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:55 PM > To: genfurn; oldtools > Subject: Re: [OldTools] And This Week's Winner - Redux Now the way I see this problem Tony et al, is that you are missing the opportunity to practice "spacious awareness" and to think kind thoughts regarding your fellow Galoots. Remember, it may have been one of us creative Neanderbu-ba--I can't bring myself to say the word Bubba--it rankles my Midwestern sensibilities--who glued that *&^% handle on there in the best of frugal intentions. If ya' call me Bubba I have to kill ya'--at least metaphorically. Let that person who is without sin, let him or her cast the first broken Stilson and/or monkey wrench. Which of you has not committed tool lust in your heart? And, to get the cash to buy a longed for tool has not doctored the goods including putting that crappy chisel before Brother Tony? You have caused him to stray and driven him to drink the demon bourbon---about 2-3 fingers of which will sweeten the repose for the evening. So Tony, as you reach for that bigger hammer it might help if you imagined the countenance of the biggest pain in the *(@ you can think of and swing with gusto. I doubt you get brownie points in the hereafter with that technique, but you will no doubt feel less frustration. You know I just hate it when you get frustrated, constipated, twittlepated or whatever, cause you get grouchy and raise your prices. OT Content. Had major tree-trimming done today and have some very nice sycamore, butternut and juniper. Got everything from an anvil base, turning stock, carving wood--including some nice natural elbows for hand adze handles and some firewood. Had 'em haul off the soft maple cause it rots before I can get it used. I hope to get another hundred years out of some of these trees. Dogs been peeing down her leg ever time the ground would shake. She's 10 and very sensitive. The guy in the bucket was a master with a rope and the motorized cutting tool and has a bigger bladder than the dog which he also controls much better. Paul in Normal > At 06:30 PM 3/5/2006, genfurn wrote: > > >Sheesh, Tony, don't be so sensitive. After all, you coulda used it > >till it broke and then tried to find another "original" plastic > >handle to replace it. > > I hear ya. > > And people ask me why I drink. > > And cuss. > > Tony > > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157871 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-07 18:24:04 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Esther writes: no funky blade or saw mods needed. Esther, Sorry that I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I think the only purpose of twisting the blade slightly is to allow the blade to cut parallel to the top/bottom of the dovetail/pin without the frame of the saw hitting the top of the dovetail/pin (particularly on a board wider than the frame of the saw). He (and I) seem to have no problem turning the corner from the kerf into the waste to be removed. Cheers John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157872 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-07 15:35:37 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. but then wouldn't it just be as easy to make two cuts, a chopping cut say 1/8" from the line and then a paring cut to the line? avoiding the whole compression of wood fibers next to the line thing... or am i, per usual, missing something? bill felton, ca On Mar 7, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Blake Ashley wrote: > I saw out as much waste as possible and then chop out the rest because > if I don't saw out most of the waste first, my first chop will > often mar > the cut. I'll try and explain why. > > When paring or chopping out dovetail waste, you are driving a wedge > into the wood. Since the incline plane of the chisel point is facing > the waste, it tends to drive the flat back of the chisel into the > non-waste wood if the waste puts up much resistance. This causes the > chisel back to dent the wood on the non-waste side of the line you > scribed to be the bottom of your dovetail thereby creating a gap in > the > final joint. When you start chopping on the base of the entire > block of > waste, it is solid enough for the chisel to wedge against. > However, if > you saw out most of the waste, then the small amount of waste left > over > does not provide a solid enough mass for the chisel to wedge against. > So instead of being pushed back across the scribe line into your > stock, > it just slices off the waste. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157873 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-07 16:47:15 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Bill says "but then wouldn't it just be as easy to make two cuts, a chopping cut say 1/8" from the line and then a paring cut to the line? avoiding the whole compression of wood fibers next to the line thing..." Hmmmmm . . . maybe so. It would solve the problem of crushing the wood on the non-waste side of the line. It would require chopping or paring through the waste twice, and flipping the stock four times. But it still might be just as easy as messing around with a coping saw - especially when the kerf from the dovetail saw is too fine for the coping saw blade so that I must make two cuts into each chunk of waste. And frankly I MUCH prefer whacking a chisel to working a coping saw around in a little chunk of waste. I'll try it!!!! Of course the best answer is probably a Barnes Velociraptor Scroll Saw. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157874 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-07 19:04:41 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Bill says "but then wouldn't it just be as easy to make two cuts, Hmmmmm . . . maybe so. But it still might be just as easy as messing around with a coping saw - especially when the kerf from the dovetail saw is too fine for the coping saw blade so that I must make two cuts into each chunk of waste. Of course the best answer is probably a Barnes Velociraptor Scroll Saw. Well, I have put those tiny little fret saw blades in the Barnes, and yes, you can turn a mighty sharp corner with them, but you could only do it on the tail board, with the board flat on the saw table. The Big Barnes doesn't have a tilting table, and the pin board could not be cut without either over cutting on one side and undercutting on the other, unless you worked some semi complicated wedging under the pin board while cutting out the waste. Much easier to just find a tilting table treadle or velocipede scroll saw that will take very thin fret saw blades, much easier. Michael-San Francisco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157875 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-07 16:55:59 Subject: finishing douglas fir i bought a bunch of old-growth douglas fir joists (4x14s and 4x18s, cut down in the 1880s) a couple years back, and am using a chunk of one for a fireplace mantel (5' long, 11" wide, and 3" thick). i am planning on machine planing it down to rough dimensions, then hand planing it down to final. it's got 20-30 growth rings per inch, and a knot every 4 feet going halfway through the thickness. can i expect to get it down to a nice smoothness with plane (l-n 4.5) and scraper (a stanley 12 with hock blade) once it's dimensioned? wipe with tung oil and then finish with shellac? it'll be 25" above the opening of our zero-clearance fireplace, so i am not *that* worried about heat/cold...but don't want it to look horrible either. i was also thinking of radiusing the top edge so it wouldn't have a chance to split, in front and on the sides. any advice from the assembled? dankie, bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157876 ---- From: Patrick Olguin Date: 2006-03-07 17:31:22 Subject: Re: finishing douglas fir --- Bill Kasper drive=-by gloated: > i bought a bunch of old-growth douglas fir joists Braggart. > (4x14s and 4x18s, cut down in the 1880s) Double Braggart. [text planed away per faq, a fascinating read, and there's a link to it at the bottom of this message] > can i expect to get it down to a nice smoothness with plane (l-n 4.5) If you can't plane doug fir with one of those yuppie bastard (tmPL) acoutrements, then it's time to pick a new hobby... like say engaging in the hobby of sending old-growth douglas fir (not really a fir tree, but we won't quibble) down south where it'll be thorougly appreciated. > wipe with tung oil and then finish with shellac? The first-ever wood/finish combo I used when demonstrating the wonders of an oil finish's chatoyance (the greasy paper bag effect), and "nature's wood lens" shellac. Yes, it should be fine unless you're going to be burning pallets in that fireplace. Cut the tung oil 2:1 with fresh turpentine. BLO works well for this as well, and is cheaper than tung oil if you care. > radius? I prefer chamfers over radiuses for rustic beam-like decorations like what yer thinking of (sorry bh). A small chamfer will do it. This is why block planes were invented. Good luck and have fun. Don't pop a hamstring lugging those beams around. Paddy Whittier, Californy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157877 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-07 19:32:28 Subject: Re: Minimum necessary event information, Let me weigh in and hopefully issue the last word since I run the place.... Galoot Central (http://www.galootcentral.com) is a jumping off point, a sister site to the Galoot Image Central. It was a project born of me needing an outlet after a family tragedy. The list nourishes me... for this I am grateful and try to give back in ways that I can... Wiktor and I had an brief exchange earlier today ... I don't and don't think either of us view the sites as necessarily competing. They are complementary ... Wiktor is amassing a wondering repository of how-to content. A place to go and hang out for a while. Immerse yourself if that's what you need. Galoot Central is tools oriented .. well, web tools.. It hosts Rob's wonderful link farm which resides in a database now that is archived regularly. If the site goes down or I do, the data is captured and can easily be recreated elsewhere by folks who do that sort of thing. The calendar.. well, it looks like a calendar and if it is useful, well, I suppose people will use it. Time will tell. I put it up there because in other sites I run for scout troops and churches it was a heavily requested thing that once in place, garners most of the traffic. Bottom line though is the site is about finding what you need an moving on. Like Esther, I have the Usenet mentality.. nice to get a lot in one place, but nice to have stuff in enough places that one blast doesn't wipe you out (hmmmm.. maybe that was military training..) OTOH, I think folks who say there's too much stuff in too many place have a good point too!! Hey, use 'em both for how they best serve you. Or something else that works better. I'm not trying to save the world .. just using stuff I've got laying around and trying to be useful. A concept that has served me well my whole life and one I'm desperately trying to pass on to my kids. One of them is bound to pick it up... ... which finally brings me to something moderately on topic and then I'll shut up and let's kill the thread.... I get home from a meeting today.. run out to pick up a kid from a birthday party. Walk back in and the 2 year old says over and over and over as he brings me his shoes and socks.... "Daddy, can we go to the workshop?" Doesn't get much better than that!! Cheers all, Jim E #2 in Wisconsin Esther writes with wisdom: > Getting perilously close to off-topic and extremely philosophical for > some reason today, I suspect 2 things are going on at once: > 1. It was not well known that galootcentral had a calendar feature so > people were not feeding it. > 2. Some galoots doing major websites have opposing internal maps of > the ideal Internet universe. > > IIRC when Wik first started his website he was thinking in terms of a > central repository of information. Some of us have the Usenet point of > view that sees a virtue in being decentralised, if something/some one > goes down, you lose some things but not everything. though!> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157878 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-07 18:20:29 Subject: WHATSIT? I discovered a brand name on my whatsit. It is Harper and Reynolds, Los Angeles. Brand: HARECO Hope this helps to identify it. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157879 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-07 18:49:09 Subject: (no subject) thanks, paddy... On Mar 7, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Patrick Olguin wrote: > --- Bill Kasper drive=-by gloated: >> i bought a bunch of old-growth douglas fir joists > Braggart. >> (4x14s and 4x18s, cut down in the 1880s) > Double Braggart. you mustn't of read my original post...scan down to the second message of the thread: http://denali.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu:8080/ ~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=126000&submit_thread=1#message heh, heh. > If you can't plane doug fir with one of those yuppie bastard (tmPL) > acoutrements, then it's time to pick a new hobby... well, i expect to, but wondered about the splintering i've read happens with fir. i've scraped a piece down to flat, and it's seemingly pretty solid between the early and late wood, but some of the edges are pretty stringy (they were damaged at some point). i just don't have time to get it planed down to dimensions by hand (i'd have to take an inch off, nearly, in thickness, and about that in width, before getting to the final surface), so using the machine, but want a shiny finish on it from well-cut fibers rather than the dreck left by the machine. it'll be mounted next week, i'll take before and after pics. > like say engaging in the > hobby of sending old-growth douglas fir (not really a fir tree, but > we won't > quibble) down south where it'll be thorougly appreciated. tell ya what, next time you're in the neighborhood (bring the gitette up for a ride at the boardwalk!) i'll give ya a big hunk of this here pseudotsuga menziesii. ya big lunk. how'd 4 feet of pretty clear wood nearly full 4x14 do ya? >> wipe with tung oil and then finish with shellac? > The first-ever wood/finish combo I used when demonstrating the > wonders of an > oil finish's chatoyance (the greasy paper bag effect), and > "nature's wood lens" > shellac. Yes, it should be fine unless you're going to be burning > pallets in > that fireplace. Cut the tung oil 2:1 with fresh turpentine. BLO > works well > for this as well, and is cheaper than tung oil if you care. blo it will be, then. i was just worried about its flammability above the fireplace, but i guess it's not going to spontaneously (or otherwise) combust once soaked into the wood. spit coat of shellac, then build it up? maybe a thin coat of beeswax on top of that, once levelled (using 600 grit emery paper and mineral spirits)? >> radius? > I prefer chamfers over radiuses for rustic beam-like decorations > like what yer > thinking of (sorry bh). A small chamfer will do it. This is why > block planes > were invented. understood. that's why i was thinking of a radius, like a 1/4" round, so it's distinctly *not* looking like a hand-adzed/chamfered beam. that's what we'll have over the windows, at some point. > Good luck and have fun. Don't pop a hamstring lugging those beams > around. who's zooming who? try putting 1000 bf of that stuff under the house in a 4' crawl space with two old guys (me and a buddy) and two young guys...it's not the hammies we wasted, it was the lower backs. but now i am stronger, and i actually cut the stuff into two 7 foot lengths (for me, and for my buddy, who lives across the street and is going to have his planed by the same friend this weekend, for his mantel) using a nicd d-23 8 pt crosscut. like buttah, but it took a while to get through all 14 inches... how's the little gal? b ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157880 ---- From: "Paul Ferenchak" Date: 2006-03-07 21:48:58 Subject: "perfection" I am with Paul and Adriaan. "You can learn more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing" Paul Ferenchak ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157881 ---- From: "Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze" Date: 2006-03-07 21:51:43 Subject: Martin Donnelly Auction Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I am planning on going, but not for the auction. And I need a bit of advice. For the last several auctions he has put on here in Indy, I have tried to go to the tailgating portion but have always missed most of the action. When is the best time to go for the tailgating? I have several hours of overtime this week that I can burn up as comp time so I can go whenever I want, but I don't want to waste my time wandering the parking lot waiting for everyone to set up either. TIA, Gary Who is watching St. Roy demonstrating inlay form last weeks show... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157882 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-07 22:04:10 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class As well you should be pleased with it. It came out beautifully! I actually had to google it to see what these tools do. According to what I read it's used for shaping seats. SO are you planning to make something using it??? Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157883 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-07 20:27:04 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I watched the demo video this evening, and was pleased with the amount of information Boggs was able to pack into the short amount of time. I have to say, I learned a lot. But... ... at the same time, while watching the video I had to work hard to suspend my disbelief that this was basically an info-mercial for Lie- Nielsen's drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. Not only was I sitting there listening to Brian Boggs tell me about his Lie-Nielsen tools, I was serving as a captive audience to the still ads flashing by for PC and LN tools. Bottom line, if they're looking for subscription revenues, I hope they ratchet back on the crass commercialism. If they're going to pay the bills with the flashing ads, I still hope they ratchet back the commercialism, if only a little bit. Alex Moseley | third-generation woodworker | Independence, Missouri | alex_moseley@y... ----- Original Message ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" To: OldTools@r... Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2006 4:23:36 PM Subject: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, since I have only been reading about 50% of my email lately, but someone is developing a new web resource, simply called "The Woodworking Channel", will have videos, etc. of various things. Their demo site has a video by Brian Boggs on the drawknife, an excellent introduction to it. http://thewoodworkingchannel.com will get you there. You must register for more info. http://www.multicastmedia.com/demos/woodworkingchannel.htm Right now, the demo video is free, don't know if it will stay that way or not. Its worth taking a look at. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157884 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-08 08:32:09 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Ellis, : Thomas : Sent: 07 March 2006 19:40 : To: Alan DuBoff; oldtools@r... : Subject: RE: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. : : : I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the : cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what : is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only : way that Klausz does it? An interesting question since there is minimal adhesion between the end grain of the lands and tail faces. The tradesman's way of chopping directly across (ie at right angles) the workpiece face can be a quick and efficient way of removing the waste, yet I have not yet found a way of doing this without leaving a gap in the centre of the land (ie the area between the pins, or the 'socket floor') caused by the fibres breaking at the final parting. Nobody should see this, and the loss of gluing area is immaterial. You might get some enlightenment from my web site Dovetailing Detailed - Advice for Choppers (bottom of the page) and 'Where You Start Can Matter'. The section 'Completing the Pins' illustrates a compromise that starts by sawing (not illustrated) chopping (at an angle to the surface) and finishes by paring. You need to pare if for some reason the land/tail joint line will be exposed, eg when sawing the upper part of a box to form a lid, when decoratively shaping (eg routing, hollowing) the faces of the job, preparing for an exam, if you can't bear the thought of an imperfection lying unseen inside the job, or just enjoy doing it. When directly chopping it can be difficult to ensure we don't form a convex land so the practised workman will undercut, knowing that, providing that during cleaning up not much is removed from the face of the job, he can get away with it. However if we should 'overcut' we have to finish with a bit of paring anyway. Incidentally, if you saw out most of the waste, keep the offcuts. You never know when you might need a matching piece for a bit of repair work. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157885 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-08 03:59:31 Subject: Dico Blue Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called Deco Blue. It was supposed to be finer than the usual green compound. I tried without success to find it here and was curious. Is anyone using this stuff and if so what kind of results are you getting and where do you find it. Thanks Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157886 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:43:38 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > John replies: > > The saw he [Rob Cosman] uses (fret/coping/schmoping) has a very thin > blade so that is easily fits into the kerf made by his L-N(??) > dovetail saw. The naming of this saw has been discussed before (although I'm damned if I can find it in the archives). The conventional name for the saw he uses is a jeweller's or piercing saw. A fret saw is the one with the ultra deep bow, used for the manual production of the sort of work almost universally made in the USA using a (demon powered) scroll saw. Neither fret saws nor piercing saws (normally...) have rotating blade holders. Here's an old fret saw: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1825 BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157887 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:46:26 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Ellis, Thomas wrote: > I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > way that Klausz does it? At the risk of exageratin' fer' clarity, why not "chop" planks to length instead of cross-cut sawing them? BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157888 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:51:45 Subject: Re: Minimum necessary event information, was: Re: [OldTools] PATINA Esther Heller wrote: > 2. Some galoots doing major websites have opposing internal maps of the > ideal Internet universe. Yeah - I'm a decentraliser myself. The parts of my site that I put the most effort into are the parts that are unique to me. Otherwise I simply link, or leave well alone. For the 'net to work for all of us, we don't need a few people to make massive efforts. As long as each of us does what we can, the aggregate is great. This view is demonstrated everyday by the COLLECTIVE knowledge of the Porch. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157889 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 09:56:39 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. paul womack wrote: > sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > >> John replies: >> >> The saw he [Rob Cosman] uses (fret/coping/schmoping) has a very thin >> blade so that is easily fits into the kerf made by his L-N(??) >> dovetail saw. > > > The naming of this saw has been discussed before (although I'm damned > if I can find it in the archives). Sigh. (all links out of date) http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswing- le/archive/get.phtml?message_id=138922&submit_thread=1#message BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157890 ---- From: "greg" Date: 2006-03-08 04:28:33 Subject: Re: Dico Blue I have some plexiglass polish that came from woodworker's supply made by dico. I don't see it listed in the catalog but it seems this is the replacement: http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=126-464 Appears to be the same product under a different name. greg > Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called > Deco Blue. It was supposed to be finer than the usual green compound. I > tried without success to find it here and was curious. Is anyone using > this stuff and if so what kind of results are you getting and where do you > find it. > Thanks > Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157891 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-08 05:37:50 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. At the risk of exageratin' for mischief, why not saw the dovetail waste so carefully that no paring is needed? (Although I will admit that I do occasionally have to use a shooting board after chopping a cross-cut.) Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: paul womack [mailto:pwomack@p...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:46 AM > To: Ellis, Thomas > Cc: Alan DuBoff; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] First semi-successful Dovetail.. > > Ellis, Thomas wrote: > > I'm curious. Since you have to pare the bottom of the > > cuts even when doing removal with a coping/fret saw, what > > is the advantage of the sawing compared to the chopping-only > > way that Klausz does it? > > At the risk of exageratin' fer' clarity, > why not "chop" planks to length instead > of cross-cut sawing them? > > BugBear > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157892 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-03-08 07:06:19 Subject: warding? Yesterday I was shopping the Dick catalog for a couple of files I need and I kept noticing the warding files. Which is flat like a hand file but the sides which cut curve gracefully to a point. What is warding, a noun or verb, inquiring minds want to know? Thanks, Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157893 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-08 04:30:55 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Wendy, Thanks for the kind words. I'm on the cusp of Windsor chairmaking. I am currently in the accumulating phase of chairmaking tools and am doing research about making Windsors. I am almost through the prerequisite post and rung part of chairmaking. I've completed one chair and have the parts of 6 more fabricated waiting assem...errr drying to proper moisture content. A local woodworking group that I belong to is ready to start a group project of making a Windsor comb back high chair. My plan for now is to make one on my own in parallel with the group. Regards, Jim --- Wendy Sarrett wrote: > As well you should be pleased with it. It came out > beautifully! I actually > had to google it to see what these tools do. > According to what I read it's > used for shaping seats. SO are you planning to make > something using it??? > > Wendy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157894 ---- From: Bill Fariss Date: 2006-03-08 04:45:33 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel If you get the Boggs video of the same name from LN you will find that it is the same thing. --- Alex Moseley wrote: > I watched the demo video this evening, and was > pleased with the amount of information Boggs was > able to pack into the short amount of time. I have > to say, I learned a lot. > > But... > > ... at the same time, while watching the video I had > to work hard to suspend my disbelief that this was > basically an info-mercial for Lie-Nielsen's > drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. -- snip --- Bill Fariss Sterling, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157895 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-08 06:50:55 Subject: RE: Martin Donnelly Auction I'd like to know when and where this is also. Never been tailgating fer old tools! We are 3 hours or so from Indianapolis. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:52 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Martin Donnelly Auction > > Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I > am > planning on going, but not for the auction. And I need a bit of advice. > For the last several auctions he has put on here in Indy, I have tried to > go > to the tailgating portion but have always missed most of the action. When > is > the best time to go for the tailgating? I have several hours of overtime > this week that I can burn up as comp time so I can go whenever I want, but > I > don't want to waste my time wandering the parking lot waiting for everyone > to set up either. > > TIA, > > Gary > > Who is watching St. Roy demonstrating inlay form last weeks show... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157896 ---- From: "Wes G." Date: 2006-03-08 07:08:08 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Jim's travisher is evidence of 3 things: Jim makes nice tools. Gil teaches really well. The power of group builds like this class. I was really happy to have been back in John Wilson's shop to observe and help photograph the first Travisher class. I think there were 8 students from all backgrounds. As far as I could tell, every person went away with a new tool that worked really well. That's pretty great for a one day class. Jim's shop is perfect and really well appointed for the class, but there's no reason this type of class couldn't be done almost anywhere. Some electrons were burned in the name of saving time, but a galoot-style class could be done as well. With a few bowsaws, braces and rasps/files to replace the machines there need be no electrons used at all. I'm voting right now that we entice Gil to teach this class at Galootapalooza XI this summer! Cheers, Wes, Lollygagger. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157897 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-08 08:13:03 Subject: WTB Woodie Dado Planes GG`s, By chance might any of you have any woodie dado`s that need a good home ? Got 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 and 7/8`s. Looking for a 1/4, 3/4 and a 1 incher to round out the set. Mabee even a 3/16th if ya got one. Thanks John Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. Where it is going to rain for the next few days. Sounds like good shop and reading weather. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157898 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-03-08 08:29:12 Subject: PATINA Web Galoots, If you click on your browsers "view source" option for the web page for PATINA directions that Tony posted < http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm >, you'll notice that the source was the PATINA web site I created and managed until 5 years ago. I moved from Maryland to Florida. I switched ISPs, dropped all my web space and yet the pages persist. Good! But, how? Respond off list please. But, I do view the web pages I did for PATINA to now be an old tool, making this post questionably legal. For those that don't remember, the source for anything hand tool related used to be a web site called "The Electronic Neanderthal" out of Cornell University run by Alan Fisher. Take a look: < http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html >. What's happened to it? Hey Tony - you wrote "You could see that the handle had been split and glued. And either painted or stained with something opaque..." I'm sure that is one I sold you along with the other junk!!! And Tony wrote "And people ask me why I drink" Yea, us old timers on this list remember you were always looking for a Gimlet no matter what time of day!! Sheesh, I'll miss harassing you this weekend, but it is sunny and in the 80's here! How much snow in Maryland this weekend? Never Dull in hand for the spittoon! *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157899 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-08 08:36:41 Subject: Re: Martin Donnelly Auction Gary Asked: > Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I am > planning on going, but not for the auction. And I need a bit of advice. > For the last several auctions he has put on here in Indy, I have tried to go > to the tailgating portion but have always missed most of the action. When is > the best time to go for the tailgating? I have several hours of overtime The auction starts both Friday and Saturday at 9:30 AM. If past practice is a guide, people will be set up in the parking lot by 7or 7:30 AM both mornings. Usually, Saturday is a little better as more people are able to come. All of this is weather permitting. I did just look at NOAA forecast, and it calls for 1 to 2" of rain on TH & TH evening, clearing on Friday (time unknown). Then, partly cloudy on Friday evening and a 30% chance of showers on Saturday. So, my guess is Saturday morning will be a bit better. Until the past few years, the parking lot has been a good place to find tools of all sorts. However since then, there have been fewer dealers/sellers set up. (I'd guess 12-18 now instead of 30 or so that used to be there.) I suspect that the combination of higher travel cost, and more of us getting used to absentee bidding, that attendance has been down a bit, and thus fewer dealers take the time and effort to drag their tools out and set up. Personally, I like to see the tools in the auction and put my hands on them before I bid if I can. And I usually find a few things to buy and sell in the parking lot. So, I will be there Saturday, wearing my stealthy Grey Galoot hat...or my Black CATS hat with the nifty round Galoot emblem sewn on! Hope to see some Galoots there. Chris In West Lafayette, IN (60 Mi. N of Indy) where it looks like the big rains will start any time now.........But it _is_ going to be nice on Saturday morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157900 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-08 06:25:29 Subject: Re: Dico Blue If you want something finer than the usual compounds, try jeweler's rouge. It shold be easy to find, and it works well. On Mar 8, 2006, at 12:59 AM, Steve Lineback wrote: > Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called > Deco Blue. It was supposed to be finer than the usual green compound. > I tried without success to find it here and was curious. Is anyone > using this stuff and if so what kind of results are you getting and > where do you find it. > Thanks > Steve > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157901 ---- From: philatelist Date: 2006-03-08 09:48:39 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I really don't mind the advertisments. Plus depending on which viewer you are using you can go full screen with the video. I'm really looking forward to it. I don't get chances to go to demonstrations or events so I learn by video and trial-n-error. For people like me it will be a big bonus. Plus you get to see items you may not have seen before in the advertisments, plus deals, etc. For those of us that work 50-60hrs a week, aren't retired, or just generally wealthy this is for us. I've passed the link on to several buddies and they all are looking forward to it. Brian in Myrtle Beach -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Fariss Sent: Mar 8, 2006 7:45 AM To: Alex >Moseley , OldTools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] The >Woodworking Channel > >If you get the Boggs video of the same name from LN you will find that >it is the same thing. > > >--- Alex Moseley wrote: > >> I watched the demo video this evening, and was pleased with the >> amount of information Boggs was able to pack into the short amount of >> time. I have to say, I learned a lot. >> >> But... >> >> ... at the same time, while watching the video I had to work hard to >> suspend my disbelief that this was basically an info-mercial for Lie- >> Nielsen's drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. > >-- snip --- > >Bill Fariss Sterling, Va. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157902 ---- From: "Seaman, Andrew K. (Andy)" Date: 2006-03-08 09:49:40 Subject: Re: Dico Blue Hey Steve, >Some time ago we had a discussion of an auto detailing compound called Deco >Blue. I'm using Dico's buffing compound for plastic, 529 PBC-B, which is the light blue colored compound. I can't recall where I found the information, but I seem to recall that this compound has a 0.3 micron particle size. I use it on a hard felt wheel as my final treatment for edge tools. Though I can't compare to other compounds I can tell you that my edges attain hair-popping sharpness with this treatment. I got a 1.25 pound bar from Enco for about $5 usd. Check Here: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=891-5183&PMPXNO= 3905004 Or here: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=05359534&PMCTLG=00 I've been using this stuff all the time and might need another bar in a decade or so... -Andy ----------------------------------------- This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company / The Timken Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157903 ---- From: JTWad@a... Date: 2006-03-08 10:05:50 Subject: Re: warding? Ken wrote: : A participle, i.e. verb form used as an adjective (cf. "swimming pool" or "coping saw"). I believe the original use was for filing the shapes of keys for warded (in the sense of "guarded") locks. These were necessary to let the key rotate past the lock's internal wards, which were there to discourage entry by skeleton key or lockpick. Some old keys are very complexly slotted indeed. John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157904 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-08 08:14:37 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. While contemplating and cogitating on this, a question emerged. Unless one is making dovetails with the very thin old English style pins, why cut dovetails with a thin-kerf saw? If I use a saw that leaves a wider kerf but still cuts to the line, why not? The wider kerf will make it easier to get a coping/fret/jeweler saw down into the cut and turned sideways. Sure a wider kerf takes more effort, but we aren't resawing maple planks here. Blake (being driven to question all kinds of his assumptions about cutting dovetails) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157905 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-08 07:44:01 Subject: RE: First semi-successful Dovetail.. For what it's worth I seem to be able to get a coping saw blade in the kerf left by my dozuki (eastern tools of the devil). I will say the cost Olson coping saw was well worth the money. Never thought there could be much difference in coping saws but an Olson with an 18pt tooth cuts like a dream. Joel McCarty --- Blake Ashley wrote: > While contemplating and cogitating on this, a > question emerged. Unless > one is making dovetails with the very thin old > English style pins, why > cut dovetails with a thin-kerf saw? If I use a saw > that leaves a wider > kerf but still cuts to the line, why not? The wider > kerf will make it > easier to get a coping/fret/jeweler saw down into > the cut and turned > sideways. Sure a wider kerf takes more effort, but > we aren't resawing > maple planks here. > > Blake > (being driven to question all kinds of his > assumptions about cutting > dovetails) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157906 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-08 08:53:02 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. On Tuesday 07 March 2006 11:45 am, sgt42rhr@a... wrote: > I don't recall in which one > of the two he demonstrates how he modifys his fret saw. It's in the first one. Sure, you were right in that there was no swivels, and you can't see very clearly but he does just galoot the blade up on the ends. > It's been a while since I've watched them, but IIRC he does use what I > would call a jeweler's style saw (but then I called a fret saw a coping > saw--so what do I know!). The fret saw he uses is not the typical jeweler's saw that sports the adjustable frame. It looks like a larger frame, almost like a C clamp with some heavy duty clamps for the ends of the blade. The smaller jeweler's style saw I have doesn't clamp the ends of the blade well enough, and the blades pull out (or when cutting, breaks). -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157907 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-08 12:13:53 Subject: Re: PATINA Web At 08:29 AM 3/8/2006, Karl W. Sanger wrote: >Galoots, Uh huh > If you click on your browsers "view source" option for the > web page for PATINA directions that Tony posted > < http://www.patinatools.org/Patina-dir.htm >, > you'll notice that the source was the PATINA web site I created > and managed until 5 years ago. I moved from Maryland to Florida. > I switched ISPs, dropped all my web space and yet the pages > persist. Good! Well methinks they are sitting on what ever server that is hosting the PATINA web site but I don't think anyone has paid them much mind. I got the link from an older email message I had archived here. > For those that don't remember, the source for anything hand > tool related used to be a web site called "The Electronic > Neanderthal" out of Cornell University Actually its on the Carnegie Mellon University site out of Pittsburgh PA > run by Alan Fisher. Take a look: > < http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html >. What's happened to it? Well the last time I talked to Alan, and this has to be at least 3 years I think, Life 101 had kinda taken over things for him. It's a shame, because The Electronic Neanderthal was THE first old tools site on the web and is the longest lived of any. > Hey Tony - you wrote "You could see that the handle had > been split and glued. And either painted or stained with something > opaque..." I'm sure that is one I sold you along with the other junk!!! Hmmmm..I'll have to ponder that. > And Tony wrote "And people ask me why I drink" Yea, us old > timers on this list remember you were always looking for a Gimlet > no matter what time of day!! Uh-huh...just picked up another one yesterday...that makes, well at this point I ain't got a freaking clue. > Sheesh, I'll miss harassing you this weekend, but it is > sunny and in the 80's here! How much snow in Maryland this weekend? None that I know of. You know Karl we could always take a collection to buy you a ticket to come up some time. The problem is, that more people would contribute to a fund to keep you DOWN there.......... Tony (where the sun is shining and a few tools are starting to show..) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157908 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-08 17:27:18 Subject: Re: First semi-successful Dovetail.. Alan DuBoff wrote: > The fret saw he uses is not the typical jeweler's saw that sports the > adjustable frame. It looks like a larger frame, almost like a C clamp with > some heavy duty clamps for the ends of the blade. Some are adjustable some aren't; it's a common variation either way. http://www.groz-tools.com/saw11.htm http://www.groz-tools.com/saw10.htm (antique ones are often prettier :-) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157909 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-08 11:00:20 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel In all fairness to TWC and L-N, I have to agree it was good information. I wouldn't have sat through it otherwise. At the end, I felt more confident in my use of my drawknife (not a Lie-Nielsen), so it was time well spent. I'm not retired and I don't consider myself wealthy, but I have mixed feelings about being bombarded by advertising in general. Life is not about "buy my product". As an individual, the message I was interested in was "here's how to use drawknives and spokeshaves to achieve this goal." If the people delivering that message are more interested in telling me "buy our drawknives and spokeshaves", then I need to look somewhere else to learn about using drawknives and spokeshaves. That's the balance I hope TWC and L-N are able to strike in the future. I hope they do because I think there is a lot of potential value for the site to the woodworking community. As long as that value to the woodworking community comes first, I'll continue to tune in. Alex ----- Original Message ---- From: philatelist To: OldTools@r... Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 8:48:39 AM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel I really don't mind the advertisments. Plus depending on which viewer you are using you can go full screen with the video. I'm really looking forward to it. I don't get chances to go to demonstrations or events so I learn by video and trial-n-error. For people like me it will be a big bonus. Plus you get to see items you may not have seen before in the advertisments, plus deals, etc. For those of us that work 50-60hrs a week, aren't retired, or just generally wealthy this is for us. I've passed the link on to several buddies and they all are looking forward to it. Brian in Myrtle Beach -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Fariss Sent: Mar 8, 2006 7:45 AM To: Alex >Moseley , OldTools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] The >Woodworking Channel > >If you get the Boggs video of the same name from LN you will find that >it is the same thing. > > >--- Alex Moseley wrote: > >> I watched the demo video this evening, and was pleased with the >> amount of information Boggs was able to pack into the short amount of >> time. I have to say, I learned a lot. >> >> But... >> >> ... at the same time, while watching the video I had to work hard to >> suspend my disbelief that this was basically an info-mercial for Lie- >> Nielsen's drawknife and Boggs spokeshaves. > >-- snip --- > >Bill Fariss Sterling, Va. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157910 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-08 12:33:50 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Galoots, I wanted to send an update to the list. I've been corresponding this morning with Reed Smith at The Woodworking Channel, sharing feedback and learning a lot about where they are coming from as an organization. What I learned is that they are real woodworkers who have experience teaching others to work wood, especially with hand tools. I also learned a little about where they want to go with the web site, and I have to say, I'm excited! They seem to be looking to create a broad spectrum of content from a variety of high-quality sources. This is going to be good. Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157911 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-08 14:43:59 Subject: Woodworking Channel + drawknife Although Boggs was using a Lie-Nieson drawknife, I didn't know or can find, that they make one. Future tool? Boggs has designed other tools for them, so that's what I am assuming I don't plan on running out, or pressing a keyboard, to order one, just curious. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157912 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-08 15:32:33 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel Alex, I appreciate the feedback from Reed Smith and the Woodworking Channel. I, too, went to the website and found the tutorial really helpful. Not to mention, I was really impressed by anyone can use a drawknife at that lightning speed! Internet advertising has always been a conundrum to me. There is so much of it that I know that I just tune it out and rarely, no very rarely, respond to it. I know who and where Lie-Nielsen and Woodcraft are and if I wanted a product from there I would buy it. On the other hand, I guess I do remember who was advertising! Maybe they are hoping to find the uninitiated? On the other, other hand, if they can make me subliminally buy a L-N #9 mitre plane maybe I will get my wife to watch it and she'll have this overpowering urge to pay for it! I hope the endeavour takes off and is successful. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Alex Moseley > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:34 PM > To: OldTools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > Galoots, > > I wanted to send an update to the list. I've been corresponding this > morning with Reed Smith at The Woodworking Channel, sharing feedback and > learning a lot about where they are coming from as an organization. > > What I learned is that they are real woodworkers who have experience > teaching others to work wood, especially with hand tools. I also learned > a little about where they want to go with the web site, and I have to say, > I'm excited! They seem to be looking to create a broad spectrum of > content from a variety of high-quality sources. > > This is going to be good. > > Alex > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157913 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-08 16:34:57 Subject: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes GG`s, Could a fellow Galoot enlighten me on the mysteries of the wooden rabbet (rebate, Jeff) plane ? Now I understand fillisters with the built in adjustable fence. The fence and depth stop combine to control the width and depth of cut. Now enter the Ohio tool 116 http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/OhioTool/Rabbet.htm Which would seem to be a simple enough tool for trimming tenons and most anything with a shoulder. Like ummm a shoulder plane Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. Cross grain on a panel using a batten as a guide with the nickers down ??? Long grain with the nickers up and the batten again ?? How would you control depth ?? Seems like a fillister country here...... What am I missing here ? Thanks John Edwards New Baltimore, Mi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157914 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-08 13:50:08 Subject: Re: "perfection" Hee heeeee, you guys crack me up! Personally, I've got the attention span of a fruit fly at a farmer's market. So I never noticed anyway. Wood, metal, ceramic, glass, paper, chemicals, plastics,...ancient stuff, old stuff, new stuff, ... close up and far far away.............all just grist for the mill around my wandering brain. No way can I keep my mind on anything long enough to specialize, even if I wanted to. Now, if I could only remember everything I've ever learned, right off the top of my head ?? "Oh Rainman, party of one, your table is waiting." :-) Don't we wish. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157915 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-08 14:16:59 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I fail to understand why we should expect people to put good, useful stuff up on the internet for free. Some people do, and I greatly appreciate it, but we don't have a right to expect it, or to demand it. There is a good deal of time and expense involved in putting up stuff like I saw Brian Boggs doing in the video. Isn't he supposed to make a living? Who do you know that does his daily work for free? I had no problem with the advertising. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157916 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-08 14:22:46 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes On 8 Mar 2006 at 16:34, John Edwards wrote: > Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) Here with have a tool with > a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What would this be used for > ? No depth stop to control the cut. Basically, a jack rabbet. Two nickers because it is intended to be used cross grain as well as with the grain. A handle because it's a bigger plane than your standard 9 1/2 incher and would be too hard to use otherwise. Good description on page 93 of Whelan: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_whe_2.htm We are always happy to answer questions, but if you don't start building a library, what's going to be your excuse for building bookcases? Anyone with an interest in wooden planes needs to own this book. Really. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157917 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-08 16:31:29 Subject: FW: Woodworking Channel + drawknife Although Boggs was using a Lie-Nieson drawknife, I didn't know or can find, that they make one. Future tool? Boggs has designed other tools for them, so that's what I am assuming I don't plan on running out, or pressing a keyboard, to order one, just curious. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157918 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-08 16:42:11 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. The presentation he made was excellent and I look forward to more of the same from the Woodworking Channel. . Regards, Huck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" To: "oldtools" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel >I fail to understand why we should expect people to put good, useful stuff >up on the internet for free. Some people do, and I greatly appreciate it, >but we don't have a right to expect it, or to demand it. There is a good >deal of time and expense involved in putting up stuff like I saw Brian >Boggs doing in the video. Isn't he supposed to make a living? Who do you >know that does his daily work for free? > > I had no problem with the advertising. There ain't no such thing as a free > lunch. > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157919 ---- From: "John Edwards" Date: 2006-03-08 17:53:21 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes Ken and Gary, Thanks for the response(s). I have Whelan's book and did look at the description of the Jack Rabbet. Guess that is what made me even more confused. I see a rabbet as a cut along the face of a board on the edge. Ether with or cross grain. Now I could see the advantage of nickers on both sides. But how is the side of the tool registered ? Perhaps against an already made shoulder ? And then the rabbet plane would trim a tenon or established rabbet for that "perfect" fit ? What means are there to control the depth ? Would seem using a batten cutting cross grain away from the edge would be the job of a dado. As in bookcase shelves. Guess I am still not getting it....... John "DUH" Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Greenberg" To: "John Edwards" ; "Old Tool List" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes > On 8 Mar 2006 at 16:34, John Edwards wrote: > > > Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) > > Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What > > would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. > > Basically, a jack rabbet. Two nickers because it is intended to be used cross > grain as well as with the grain. A handle because it's a bigger plane than your > standard 9 1/2 incher and would be too hard to use otherwise. Good description > on page 93 of Whelan: > > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_whe_2.htm > > We are always happy to answer questions, but if you don't start building a > library, what's going to be your excuse for building bookcases? Anyone with an > interest in wooden planes needs to own this book. Really. > > -Ken > > > Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) > 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm > Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/06 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157920 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-08 19:03:57 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes I found a similar plane about a month ago, sans the nickers, a Sandusky 149. . the collective response from the porch was that they are called Jack Rabbet planes and were used by carpenters and house joiners for making large rabbets in housebuilding. I could see how a large plane like this might be just the thing for running a quick rabbet around say a window or door frame to get it to fit into an opening or rabbeting the back of a board to get it to fit against its neighbor or a stud. Plane seems a tool for rough work on a job site rather than more refined bench work. Still need to make some nickers for mine, and then find a use for it, maybe the shop needs some panelling?? Michael-San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: John Edwards To: ken@c...; Old Tool List Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes Ken and Gary, Thanks for the response(s). I have Whelan's book and did look at the description of the Jack Rabbet. Guess that is what made me even more confused. I see a rabbet as a cut along the face of a board on the edge. Ether with or cross grain. Now I could see the advantage of nickers on both sides. But how is the side of the tool registered ? Perhaps against an already made shoulder ? And then the rabbet plane would trim a tenon or established rabbet for that "perfect" fit ? What means are there to control the depth ? Would seem using a batten cutting cross grain away from the edge would be the job of a dado. As in bookcase shelves. Guess I am still not getting it....... John "DUH" Edwards New Baltimore, Mi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Greenberg" To: "John Edwards" ; "Old Tool List" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes > On 8 Mar 2006 at 16:34, John Edwards wrote: > > > Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) > > Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What > > would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. > > Basically, a jack rabbet. Two nickers because it is intended to be used cross > grain as well as with the grain. A handle because it's a bigger plane than your > standard 9 1/2 incher and would be too hard to use otherwise. Good description > on page 93 of Whelan: > > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/book_whe_2.htm > > We are always happy to answer questions, but if you don't start building a > library, what's going to be your excuse for building bookcases? Anyone with an > interest in wooden planes needs to own this book. Really. > > -Ken > > > Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) > 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 > http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm > Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/06 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157921 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-08 16:17:30 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes On 8 Mar 2006 at 17:53, John Edwards wrote: > Now I could see the advantage of nickers on both sides. But how is the > side of the tool registered ? Perhaps against an already made shoulder > ? And then the rabbet plane would trim a tenon or established rabbet > for that "perfect" fit ? What means are there to control the depth ? I think you are on the right track here. Of course, the advantage of the fillister is that it does have a fence and depth stop so you can use it to make a rabbet from scratch. OTOH, if you saw out the rabbet, then you can use a rabbet plane to clean it up. I tend to do this more on smallish work, which is probably why I never saw the need for one of these jack rabbets. You could use some sort of guide temporarily affixed to the work (or the plane, as Whelan points out). I do have a skew rabbet, but I never use it to start a rabbet, just to clean one up for this reason. Depth stops - well, it's not that hard to plane to a line. Even when I have a depth stop I all too often crank it up out of the way and just remove all the wood that's not supposed to be there. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. Just depends on the phase of the moon or something. > Would seem using a batten cutting cross grain away from the edge would > be the job of a dado. As in bookcase shelves. Possibly, except that the dado plane is traditionally used in the middle of the board whereas the rabbet plane is used at the edge or end. But you knew that. Why two nickers if one of them is going to be hanging out in mid-air? Well, even on the cross grain work it is sometimes cleaner to go in one direction than the other. Saves you the trouble of reconfiguring the plane if it's ready to go from either side. Just wild speculation on my part here, since I don't own any planes with two nickers except for the functional two nickers on the dado plane leading iron. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157922 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-08 20:48:13 Subject: Drawknife question Gentle List, I see some drawknives described as having folding handles, and some as having adjustable handles. After having watched the Boggs/L-N video recently posted, I now have a very clear idea about the utility of having adjustable handles on a drawknife. What is the purpose of having folding handles on a drawknife? As always, thanks for your elucidation. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157923 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-08 20:59:59 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Thank you Jim; well said. Very respectfully, Larry James Thompson wrote: > I fail to understand why we should expect people to put good, useful > stuff up on the internet for free. Some people do, and I greatly > appreciate it, but we don't have a right to expect it, or to demand > it. There is a good deal of time and expense involved in putting up > stuff like I saw Brian Boggs doing in the video. Isn't he supposed to > make a living? Who do you know that does his daily work for free? > > I had no problem with the advertising. There ain't no such thing as a > free lunch. > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157924 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-08 21:07:23 Subject: Re: Martin Donnelly Auction On Mar 7, 2006, at 9:51 PM, Shelley, Gary and Emma Maze wrote: > Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this weekend? I'll be inning and outing - got no $$$. Look for a Type 2 Galoot cap (denim blue) and a red "McGraw-Hill Science Textbook" bag. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Juicy red meat is not bad for you... Fuzzy green meat, now THAT’S bad for you ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157925 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-08 21:18:10 Subject: Re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class On Wednesday 08 March 2006 07:30 am, Jim Crammond wrote: > I'm on the cusp of Windsor chairmaking. > Very cool!! That sounds exciting! It sounds like you're really learning a lot about chairmaking! > A local woodworking group that I belong to is ready to > start a group project of making a Windsor comb back > high chair. That sounds like fun! Nothing like a group to keep the project moving foward. I look forward to seeing how they turn out! Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157926 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-08 21:24:43 Subject: Re: Martin Donnelly Auction On Mar 8, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Chris Berger wrote: > > Gary Asked: > >> Is anyone coming to Indy for the Martin Donnelly auction this >> weekend? {snip} > > The auction starts both Friday and Saturday at 9:30 AM. {snip} According to the Friday Listed Auction catalogue, it starts 9:01 am EST. Don't want anybody to show up late. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Juicy red meat is not bad for you... Fuzzy green meat, now THAT’S bad for you ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157927 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-08 21:23:34 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for the production, the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from somewhere. I don't think the ads are intrusive and since they're geared to the audience, it may prove to be a pointer to something I'm looking for. This the model that Google uses and it works very well. Wend ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157928 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-08 18:46:09 Subject: Re: Drawknife question On Mar 8, 2006, at 5:48 PM, John Johnson, Sgt42RHR, wrote: > After having watched the Boggs/L-N video recently posted, I now > have a very > clear idea about the utility of having adjustable handles on a > drawknife. What > is the purpose of having folding handles on a drawknife? I believe the main reason is to make a more compact unit that makes more efficient use of space in one's toolbox. Plus which, the handles, when folded, protect both the cutting edge from nicks, and the proximate surfaces from being nicked by the cutting edge, when knocking about in said toolbox. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157929 ---- From: "C N Schwartz" Date: 2006-03-08 22:15:01 Subject: RE: FW: Woodworking Channel + drawknife I had the pleasure of using a Lie Nielson drawknife at a John Alexander class. Back in 2002 or 2003. It was a prototype, I was told, for a possible future product offering. I've been waiting ever since. It was a very good drawkife. -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Yarrow, Gary Although Boggs was using a Lie-Nieson drawknife, I didn't know or can find, that they make one. Future tool? Boggs has designed other tools for them, so that's what I am assuming I don't plan on running out, or pressing a keyboard, to order one, just curious. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157930 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-08 20:19:46 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to come from for work of many people putting very often superb information on the net. >From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Wendy Sarrett > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:24 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > > On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. > > I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for > the production, > the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157931 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-09 04:23:46 Subject: boiling oil Dear Galoots Some time ago, I decided I would try to oil my wooden planes. Following the example of a fellow woodworker, who was using camelia oil for the purpose, I decided to search for a local source of good camelia oil in Taiwan. I found it at a health food store. Pure comestible camelia oil (also called tea oil in chinese as it comes from tea tree nuts). I oiled 3 planes at first to see the result. They looked very nice. But after few month, mold started to appear. It was not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan or because I used comestible oil. So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? Another thing to know is that camelia is a common name, camelia japonica is not the same as camelia formosa for example. But I discovered it afterward... Ludo in Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157932 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-08 22:24:29 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Whoa there, hold on, now. :D Please don't misconstrue - I don't expect TWC to exist without advertising, I don't expect Mr. Boggs to give his time and effort for nothing, and I don't expect L-N to give away their videos. It was definitely good information, and honestly, probably worth the $20 plus shipping that L-N wants for the full length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" DVD ... once you get past the fairly obvious plugs for L-N products. The portion of the video available from TWC's demo, which was basically a cut-down version of the full-length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" video, was edited in such a way as to be heavily weighted toward L-N's product placement. That product placement is probably spread out better in the full length video. My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was that the knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back seat to L-N's advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. I don't think I'm the first person to wince at the way L-N videos blur the line between education and marketing, either. Maybe I failed to express my opinion as clearly as I could have, but bottom line, I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I do expect sincerity. If you're presenting educational material, present it. But don't dress up marketing material to look like educational material. So here's a counter-example: Chris Pye's free web books were sponsored by folks like Joel Moskowitz at Tools for Working Wood. I appreciated Joel's sponsorship, and have purchased from him when I've been in the market for what he offers - and I'll purchase from him again in the future. I've also purchased several of Chris Pye's trade books, and am very grateful to him for sharing his talents as a woodcarver and educator. What Chris and Joel achieved in that arrangement was closer to my ideal. Joel got his name out there, got my attention long enough for me to make the mental note to check out his site, and then he got out of the way so Chris Pye could do his thing, which is to share the joy of carving with anyone who's interested in listening. Chris wasn't selling a particular brand of carving gouge - he was sharing his craft. So what I'm saying is, there's a way to do advertising and sponsorship that avoids drowning out the content we're all there to take in*. TWC might not be able to work out the same arrangement with their sponsors as Chris worked out with Joel, but I sincerely hope that TWC's productions strike a better balance, and allow the educational message to be heard over the salesman's pitch*. It's the modest sponsor who'll win my loyalty, and that loyalty will lead me to a sponsor's door long before sensory overload from an overbearing advertising campaign will win me over. * Based on my conversations with Reed Smith at TWC, I have every confidence that they will be up to the task. Alex ...who is not, nor has ever been a member of the Communist Party. ;^) ----- Original Message ---- From: Wiktor A. Kuc To: Wendy Sarrett ; oldtools@r... Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:19:46 PM Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to come from for work of many people putting very often superb information on the net. >From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Wendy Sarrett Sent: Wednesday, March 08, > 2006 7:24 PM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] The > Woodworking Channel > > > On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. > > I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for the > production, the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from > somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157933 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-09 16:57:32 Subject: Re: boiling oil Ludo in Taiwan writes: > But after few month, mold started to appear. It was > not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton > cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether > it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan > or because I used comestible oil. > > So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? > Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? Both raw and boiled linseed oil will, after application to timber, host mould in the climatic conditions which obtain in and around Brisbane and beyond. Some of the product comes in packaging recommending its mixture with kerosene but without stating that this is for the purpose of inhibiting the growth of mould. However, the mixture of either type of linseed oil with kerosene certainly does appear to inhibit mould. Boiled linseed oil applied without the addition of kerosene appears just as ready to host the growth of mould as the raw stuff. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157934 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-09 10:03:40 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Alex Moseley wrote: > > My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was > that the knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back > seat to L-N's advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. > I don't think I'm the first person to wince at the way L-N videos > blur the line between education and marketing, either. They're following a fine tradition; "Planecraft: Hand Planing By Modern Methods" is a truly great reference book on using modern (i.e. 1900-1970 style) UK/USA style metal planes. (now in reprint by Woodcraft) It's also a shameless plug for the Record version of these tools, describing each and every Record feature as essential and/or valuable. Nobody gripes at Roy Underhill for pointing out and praising the features of the old-and-unobtainable tools he uses; I see no reason for special concern if Brian Boggs does the same. BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157935 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-09 04:44:32 Subject: RE: boiling oil John & Ludo--I have only used boiled Linseed Oil and have never heard of adding kerosene! That is a new recipe, at least for me. I normally cut mine with Turpentine or sometimes plain old mineral spirits. Does the smell of the Kerosene dissipate fairly quickly? IME Kerosene takes forever to stop off-gassing! DAMHINT, but it involved a vehicle and a can in the trunk/boot. In central Illinois it is very humid in the summer. Before I was able to stabilize the temperature and humidity in the shop I was forever digging out wood tools that had a bloom of mold on them. Whether it does any harm I am not sure. I haven't seen any damage. The oil finish does darken over time which I like for most applications. I'm out on a limb here, but I wonder if the same additive that you can buy to prevent mold and mildew in outdoor paint would mix with the Boiled Linseed Oil. Since it is about 4AM when I'm writing this, I'll have to check my brain functioning later in the day! I use Canola/Rapeseed food grade oil on cutting boards. Can't say I have seen any mold on those, but they get used frequently so who knows. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > > Ludo in Taiwan writes: > > > But after few month, mold started to appear. It was > > not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton > > cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether > > it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan > > or because I used comestible oil. > > > > So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? > > Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? > > Both raw and boiled linseed oil will, after application to timber, host > mould in the climatic conditions which obtain in and around Brisbane and > beyond. Some of the product comes in packaging recommending its mixture > with kerosene but without stating that this is for the purpose of > inhibiting > the growth of mould. However, the mixture of either type of linseed oil > with kerosene certainly does appear to inhibit mould. Boiled linseed oil > applied without the addition of kerosene appears just as ready to host the > growth of mould as the raw stuff. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157936 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-09 05:59:14 Subject: Martin Donnelly Auction Gary asked about this weekends LFOD auction in Indianapolis. Chris Berger gave a good description of the basics especially the weather. With good weather the parking lot is more fun than the auction itself. Unless it pours down rain I will be there both mornings as well as both previews. If any of the Galoots show up please say hi. I don't have a Galoot hat but I will be the one with the confused look muttering to himself and reaching into his pocket for money that isn't there. Steve Whose wish list is longer than MJD auction listing ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157937 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-03-09 06:35:06 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I never got that feeling when watching the video clip. I've seen far worse that tried to push a product. I felt like Brian just voiced his opinion as he also mentioned some of the first ones he used. As for the shaves I felt like he voiced more on user preference as he mentioned and showed the various ones he had gone through(and made) which again I didn't feel like he was pushing "his" shaves. But, that's just my observation. I'm sure not everyone would have the same observation. I'm glad you talked to Reed and feel better about TWC as I for one want as many woodworkers watching as possible. I don't want TWC to dissolve. Brian Brian McInturff philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Alex Moseley > To: Wiktor A. Kuc ; Wendy Sarrett ; ; > Date: 3/9/2006 1:24:29 AM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > Whoa there, hold on, now. :D > > Please don't misconstrue - I don't expect TWC to exist without advertising, I don't expect Mr. Boggs to give his time and effort for nothing, and I don't expect L-N to give away their videos. It was definitely good information, and honestly, probably worth the $20 plus shipping that L-N wants for the full length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" DVD ... once you get past the fairly obvious plugs for L-N products. > > The portion of the video available from TWC's demo, which was basically a cut-down version of the full-length "Chairmaker's Toolkit" video, was edited in such a way as to be heavily weighted toward L-N's product placement. That product placement is probably spread out better in the full length video. > > My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was that the knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back seat to L-N's advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. I don't think I'm the first person to wince at the way L-N videos blur the line between education and marketing, either. > > Maybe I failed to express my opinion as clearly as I could have, but bottom line, I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I do expect sincerity. If you're presenting educational material, present it. But don't dress up marketing material to look like educational material. > > So here's a counter-example: Chris Pye's free web books were sponsored by folks like Joel Moskowitz at Tools for Working Wood. I appreciated Joel's sponsorship, and have purchased from him when I've been in the market for what he offers - and I'll purchase from him again in the future. I've also purchased several of Chris Pye's trade books, and am very grateful to him for sharing his talents as a woodcarver and educator. > > What Chris and Joel achieved in that arrangement was closer to my ideal. Joel got his name out there, got my attention long enough for me to make the mental note to check out his site, and then he got out of the way so Chris Pye could do his thing, which is to share the joy of carving with anyone who's interested in listening. Chris wasn't selling a particular brand of carving gouge - he was sharing his craft. > > So what I'm saying is, there's a way to do advertising and sponsorship that avoids drowning out the content we're all there to take in*. TWC might not be able to work out the same arrangement with their sponsors as Chris worked out with Joel, but I sincerely hope that TWC's productions strike a better balance, and allow the educational message to be heard over the salesman's pitch*. It's the modest sponsor who'll win my loyalty, and that loyalty will lead me to a sponsor's door long before sensory overload from an overbearing advertising campaign will win me over. > > * Based on my conversations with Reed Smith at TWC, I have every confidence that they will be up to the task. > > Alex > ...who is not, nor has ever been a member of the Communist Party. ;^) > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Wiktor A. Kuc > To: Wendy Sarrett ; oldtools@r... > Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:19:46 PM > Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > > I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear > opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to > come from for work of many people putting very often superb > information on the net. > > >From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some > Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. > > Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of > cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there > are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. > > Wiktor A. Kuc > Albuquerque, NM > 505-323-8482 > www.OldToolsShop.com > www.wkFineTools.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > > Wendy Sarrett > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:24 PM > > To: oldtools@r... > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Woodworking Channel > > > > > > On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:42 pm, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: > > > I totally agree. Brian makes his living at this. > > > > I have to agree with James and Huck. The money to pay for > > the production, > > the web bandwidth, servers etc. has to come from somewhere. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157938 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-09 05:56:19 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel > Nobody gripes at Roy Underhill for pointing > out and praising the features of the > old-and-unobtainable tools he uses; I see > no reason for special concern if Brian > Boggs does the same. > > BugBear Right on. I'll just make a couple of observations. Whether it's Roy Underhill, Scott Phillips, Norm or the Router Workshop. They are all in the business and must have sponsors. The difference as I see it is that Brian Boggs is tied to L-N for several reasons. He uses the products that he designs and is part of the profit team one way or another. Other woodworking shows that are in syndication will change sponsors from time to time so they must deliberately avoid mentioning the product name . . in most cases. But, we all recognize the tool, glue bottle or other product they are using. No body is fooling anyone.But, since it is a syndicated program the same program can be shown for years just by slipping in new sponsors as they decide to pick up the show. Our friend Brian is in a totally different situation. His life blood is in the classes he holds and the tools he designs. And usually gets a handsome fee for each class. We should be grateful to Brian and The Woodworking Channel for sharing the talent of Brian Boggs FREE. So if he wants to mention that the spokeshave he is using is one that he designs, and he points out the advantages or disadvantages of the design, we are learning from that. We are learning just as we would in the classroom without having to pay for attending the class. Let's give the guy a break. I for one have used a spokeshave with the bevel up and the bevel down. I just never new why I was doing that. Now I know. Brian and the Woodworking Channel are saving us a ton of money. I look forward to more of the same. If an expert tells me why he uses a certain tool . . . I am better for the knowing. One more comment and then I'll crawl back under the porch. Some of our highly regarded members of this list make and sell tools in this forum. Any complaints? Regards, Huck > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157939 ---- From: "Col. Richard J. Hucker" Date: 2006-03-09 06:04:34 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Ok, Ok . . . I meant to say Drawknife. I caught the error just as I hit the send button. Using a spokeshave with the bevel up would be a real trick. Huck . I > for one have used a spokeshave with the bevel up and the bevel down. I > just never new why I was doing that. Now I know. Brian and the Woodworking > Channel are saving us a ton of money. I look forward to more of the same. > If an expert tells me why he uses a certain tool . . . I am better for the > knowing. > Regards, > Huck > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >> >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157940 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-09 07:31:55 Subject: Plane Eating Molds It is unlikely that the mold (aka fungi) people have described appearing on oil treated planes will not harm the plane. Of all the fungi on the planet, typically only one group of them has the ability to degrade wood, the Basidiomycetes,although there are always exceptions to the rule. Most of the "mushrooms" you observe in the woods are Basidios, decaying fallen trees, branches, etc. The other groups of fungi have a hard time decaying wood because the primary structural component of wood at the molecular level is lignin and lignin is a very tough nut for fungi to crack. Most "molds" are opportunists who only become successful with a readily available food source and a ton of water (either free water or atmospheric water). When you oil the plane, you are giving the fungi an available food source. This is not to say that on rare occasions some fungi won't start on the oil and then work their way into the wood, but this is generally unlikely. Wiping them down periodically is a good solution and a quick wipe with alcohol would also slow things down, but that may actually remove some oil, I'm not sure. Nathaniel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157941 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-09 08:07:25 Subject: camphor Galoots, Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon at bay? Thanks for info! Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157942 ---- From: Dan Miller Date: 2006-03-09 07:55:15 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel At 07:04 AM 3/9/2006, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote: >Using a spokeshave with the bevel up would be a real trick. Oh, I don't know about that... all of my wooden shaves are bevel up.... Cheers, Dan ______________________ Daniel Miller Dragonfly Canoe Works North Greenbush, NY http://dragonflycanoe.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157943 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-09 08:34:23 Subject: Re: boiling oil I don't recall the magazine, but one of the woodworking magazines tested the resistance of a number of finishes to mold/mildew several years ago, and Boiled Linseed Oil did not do very well. The mold you see is most likely "eating" the oil in the finish, not the wood. As another listmember posted, Wood (lignin) is very hard to digest. I've seen what appears to be the same mold growing on shoes that were treated with oil for waterproofing. tim raleigh nc Ludo Angot Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/08/2006 10:23 PM To oldtools@r... cc Subject [OldTools] boiling oil Dear Galoots Some time ago, I decided I would try to oil my wooden planes. Following the example of a fellow woodworker, who was using camelia oil for the purpose, I decided to search for a local source of good camelia oil in Taiwan. I found it at a health food store. Pure comestible camelia oil (also called tea oil in chinese as it comes from tea tree nuts). I oiled 3 planes at first to see the result. They looked very nice. But after few month, mold started to appear. It was not a lot, but was visible. I sweep it with a coton cloth and since then it is fine. I'm not sure whether it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan or because I used comestible oil. So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? Can any vegetable oil be boiled and used as a finish? Another thing to know is that camelia is a common name, camelia japonica is not the same as camelia formosa for example. But I discovered it afterward... Ludo in Taiwan ___________________________________________________________________________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157944 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-09 08:13:04 Subject: RE: Plane Eating Molds Nathaniel--Thanks for the word on the mold issue. I am glad to know that my Linseed Oil is not destroying the wood. I know the benefits of the other finishing products on the market and the limitations of Linseed Oil , but I am absolutely addicted to the smell of Linseed Oil and a little Turpentine! I equate the smell with a finished project and it permeates the air, OK it's probably bad for you, but I love it anyway! I use it as a finish, but diluted a little more and I rub down furniture pieces with it that have oil finishes. Smells good, the wood looks good and if wiped more-or-less dry, it doesn't collect any more dust than anything else I've used. I appreciate your mycology? lesson. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of N.A. Mitkowski > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:32 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Plane Eating Molds > > It is unlikely that the mold (aka fungi) people have described > appearing on oil treated planes will not harm the plane. ... > > Nathaniel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157945 ---- From: Simpson S & K Date: 2006-03-10 01:34:24 Subject: Re: boiling oil [alternative] Ludo Angot wrote: >Dear Galoots > >Some time ago, I decided I would try to oil my wooden planes. >Following the example of a fellow woodworker, who was using camelia >oil for the purpose, I decided to search for a local source of good >camelia oil in Taiwan. > >I found it at a health food store. Pure comestible camelia oil (also >called tea oil in chinese as it comes from tea tree nuts). I oiled 3 >planes at first to see the result. They looked very nice. > >But after few month, mold started to appear. It was not a lot, but was >visible. I sweep it with a coton cloth and since then it is fine. I'm >not sure whether it is because of the humid weather we have in Taiwan >or because I used comestible oil. > >So: should I have boiled the oil before using it? Can any vegetable oil >be boiled and used as a finish? > >Another thing to know is that camelia is a common name, camelia >japonica is not the same as camelia formosa for example. But I >discovered it afterward... > >Ludo in Taiwan > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________________- >_________ >Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les >tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. >Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > /Fellow Galoots , I have been using a product called FUNGISHEILD.(Feastwatson brand). The product is designed to seal the timber , and protect it from diseases such as mold. It has the consistentcy similar to Turpintine.It soaks into the timber nicely , including tight grained hardwoods. The main benefit I have found , deals with the use of waxes or polishes over timber work. Because the timber grain becomes fully sealed , wax or polish applications remain on the surface of the timber , and do not soak into it. I prefer this method to lacquer applications.It not only gives my work a high quality finish , it also takes less time to complete ,//as the Fungishield is ready for final coatings ( wax or polish ) after 12 hours. / / Regards Stewart./ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157946 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-09 09:54:12 Subject: Re: boiling oil-mold? Mildew? Fungusamungus? While mold/mildew/fungus has to this point not bothered any of my wooden tools, I have noticed that wooden furniture stored in one side of my shop has become covered with a very light covering of light grey/green/whitish stuff that I refer to as 'mildew'. I have no idea what 'mildew' actually is, or if this stuff is mildew, or is it mold, or what? Looking it up didn't clarify the issue very much. It appears that mold and mildew are not the same, but they are both fungi? I guess I'm interested in knowing the best way to get rid of the stuff (I try to keep a dehumidfier running), and if I wipe the stuff off, it comes back. mildew--a fungus that produces a superficial (usually white) growth on organic matter Mildew A common name for dark coloured molds which cause disfiguration and degradation. They can be found in interior (i.e. bathrooms) and exterior environments (i.e. tenting, awnings, painted siding). Mildew: A superficial coating or discoloration of organic materials caused by fungi, especially under damp conditions. Mildew is a grey, mold-like growth caused by one of two different types of micro-organisms. Mildew can thrive on any organic matter, not just living tissue, and can appear on clothing, leather, paper, and the ceilings, walls and floors of many homes. It often lives on shower walls. Molds A widespread group of fungi that are filamentous and reproduce by spore formation. They form hypha and mycelia. Molds are often found on wood, paper, cotton and other natural materials where they can cause degradation. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157947 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-09 08:13:01 Subject: Re: boiling oil Here in the States, I believe Tea Tree Oil and Camellia oil are two very different substances. I bought my camellia oil from the Japan Woodworker. It is a light oil with almost no odor at all and no effect on exposed skin. I bought my Tea Tree Oil at a health food store and it has a VERY strong odor and causes a burning sensation on the skin like liniment. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157948 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-03-09 09:26:38 Subject: FS: Wooden side rebate planes and a crispy moving So you say that cleaning up those undersized dados are driving you crazy? Have you been dreaming about a pair of elusive side rabbets from the old country? Well step right up and take a look, these babies are the real deal. No drooling please, as these have the original patina and are untouched. Yes sir, they are a matched pair of wooden skewed side rebate planes. The makers mark? AMESS BIRMm Where did I get them? From a little old man in Scotland. Only $100.00 Pictures available on request. I think that every full blooded galoot should have a moving fillister. What's that you say? Don't know what it is? Oooohhhh goes the assemblage, but here! here! Quiet down! This is simply a rabbet plane with a depth stop and a fence, making it one of the most used planes in your arsenal. What makes this plane excel is the spur(nicker) that scores the wood before the skewed blade wafts the gossamer shaving away, to gently float to the floor. The brass depth stop and fence with inlaid brass screw runners allows for perfectly controlling what you want to do. The dovetailed boxwood wear strip begs for lots of use. Let me see about the makers mark. . . Oh this only gets better. . . TABER PLANE CO. my all time favorite plane maker from New Bedford, MS. Patina and crispiness, and the blade is sharpened to shaving quality. Only $100.00 Pictures available on request. P.S. Why am I willing to part with these? Me son would like a little dingy to fish in, and he is worth it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157949 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-09 07:43:21 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Folks, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. It seems like we're talking past each other. I appreciate your lively defense of Brian Boggs' work, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that he is a fantastic artisan, a respectable toolmaker, and gifted educator. I also agree with you that it was very generous of Lie-Nielsen and Mr. Boggs to share segments of Brian's video with us for free. I am grateful to TWC for their work, and to Lie-Nielsen for their generosity. I also appreciate the fine folks who are offering their exceptional products on the porch. Whether they're offering old tools or new, they're a vital part of our community. I've learned a lot simply by reading peoples' for sale lists, and I've been the recipient of some fine tools, too. I hope they feel welcome to continue to offer those products to the Porch in the future, because I believe it is a healthy and positive aspect of this community. Respectfully, Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157950 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-09 11:54:59 Subject: Palette Wood We've just purchased some furniture for the office and some of it came on palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long with eight good boards on each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses construction-grade softwood, probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made up of six-foot, 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made specifically for this shipment. It is, however, very dry. Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these keepers or is palette wood more headache than it's worth? As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and appreciate any advice. Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157951 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-09 08:59:39 Subject: Tools Review Hi All, I received another tool review from our agent down under. Derek talks about LV-Veritas Low Angle Smoothing Plane. Links are available on www.OldToosShop.com and www.wkFineTools.com On Chris Pye's PDF files - I will temporarily take down Selecting and Sharpening V-tool.pdf file. Dr. Millrat discovered problem on some of the pages and now he is whipping me back to the drawing board. I will put it up as soon as I correct the problem. Still looking for new submissions for OldToolsShop.com. Regards, Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157952 ---- From: "James Amrine Jr." Date: 2006-03-09 10:56:30 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Jim asks: ===================== Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these keepers or is palette wood more headache than it's worth? ===================== I know that a lot of amateur instrument builders use pallet wood when they find good specimens, and they are a fussier bunch about wood quality than furniture builders. I say go with it. -Jamey in Ann Arbor, where it is wet, but in a springtime-kind-of-way ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157953 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-09 11:03:41 Subject: RE: Palette Wood A place I worked many years ago imported office-size offset presses, which came on palettes that included 5/4 (or so) beech boards. You bet I used it, and still hoard some scraps. Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Jim McVicar > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:55 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Palette Wood > > > We've just purchased some furniture for the office and some > of it came on > palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long with eight > good boards on > each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses > construction-grade softwood, > probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made > up of six-foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots > and the boards > are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made > specifically for > this shipment. It is, however, very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are > these keepers or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > > As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and appreciate any advice. > > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157954 ---- From: Trevor Robinson Date: 2006-03-09 11:09:32 Subject: Hacksaws Hi, All I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of hacksaws. As a boy I used the hacksaw that my father had, a familiar type with a turned hsndle, parallel to the blade. I didn't like it then because small hands made it hard to feel in control. I don't like that style now, either, for the same reaon. When I was about ten, I persuaded my mother to give me a pistol-gripped one, which cost a quarter from Sears. I still have it and use it occasionally, although it is no longer my regular user. For awhile I had a RIGID, a strong tool but with an uncomfortable handle. Now my favorite is a PARKER, and I don't know if they are still available. It has a closed, plastic handle that feels just right. If you can find one, buy it, I say. For smaller work I use one that has a cast iron frame that takes 8" blades. I don't think that any like that are made anymore, but they are not uncommon at flea markets and yard sales. For blades, I like Starrett and Lenox. Trevor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157955 ---- From: "Clay Risenhoover" Date: 2006-03-09 10:07:03 Subject: RE: Palette Wood (Jim asked about the use of wood salvaged from pallets for woodworking...) Jim, My house has "engineered" oak flooring throughout. I milled all of my own thresholds and transition pieces from solid oak. Some of that oak came from old pallets and is really pretty wood. I say go for it. Beware, though, that the wood in the pallets was probably still in a tree just a few weeks ago, so it may still be a little wet. The stuff I used had been in the shop for a few years... -Clay ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157956 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-09 08:24:02 Subject: Re: Palette Wood I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The dimensions of the project were driven by the distance between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I can get some pictures tonight and post them. Roger --- Jim McVicar wrote: > > We've just purchased some furniture for the office > and some of it came on > palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long > with eight good boards on > each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses > construction-grade softwood, > probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, > is made up of six-foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or > knots and the boards > are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new > palette, made specifically for > this shipment. It is, however, very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak > boards. Are these keepers or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > > As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and > appreciate any advice. > > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157957 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-09 08:27:38 Subject: Re: Palette Wood get it, get it, get it. i imported a whole lotta south african vanagon parts in 2002-03, and am still using the tropical hardwood pallet wood for various things. i have also salvaged qs white oak of the size you're describing, and some oak main timbers that are probably red oak (stinky stuff!)...they're the ones that resist the tines of the forklift. so, yes, it's worth taking apart. superbar, gloves, claw hammer, sledge hammer, a six-pack of good beer, and two or three advil... best, bill felton, ca On Mar 9, 2006, at 7:54 AM, Jim McVicar wrote about some pallet wood: > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these > keepers or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157958 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-03-09 10:29:21 Subject: RE: Palette Wood I built a garden shed that was made from pallets and have also started on a tree house, in which the siding is long pallet wood. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157959 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-09 11:31:38 Subject: Obituary for a Galoot Gentle List, I was perusing the obituaries in our local paper the other day (I check occasionally to see if I've died) when I came across an entry that included, in part, the following. I thought it was a pretty wonderful remembrance and one that some of you might appreciate. "...Virgil was a husband, father, grandfather, great-grandfather and friend to all. He was a man of hands and heart. He had hand that could build anything from nothing and a heart that would give it all away. He built it all, from swing sets to dulcimers, boats to go-carts, cabins of cypress and contraptions of all kinds. He was always there to bait a hook, plant a garden, take you for a motorcycle ride or just fix what was broken. His hands were helping hands to all who needed him. Most of all he built a legacy of laughter and happiness for his family and friends..." I would like to have known him. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157960 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-09 08:43:26 Subject: Re: boiling oil Hey Ludo Whatever it's living on, if it's wet enough to grow mold on your plane bodies, rust is stirring and your blades are next on the menu! Try wood stove heat, air conditioner cold, air circulation, dehumidifier. Knock that water level down some, one way or another. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157961 ---- From: Christopher Swingley Date: 2006-03-09 07:54:08 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel GG's, * Col. Richard J. Hucker [2006-Mar-09 02:56 AKST]: > One more comment and then I'll crawl back under the porch. Some of our > highly regarded members of this list make and sell tools in this forum. > Any complaints? Note that this is an issue that was considered by those wise folk that started the List and wrote the FAQ [1]: XI. What is the policy on "For Sale" posts? Unlike most other lists, the OldTools charter expressly allows commercial postings by its members, with the stipulation that the sellers also participate in the group's discussions. In short, we don't mind if you sell old tools via the list, so long as you pass on your expertise with it. In our little corner of the world, we like to require some education as the "price" for the commercial. Cheers, Chris [1] A gripping tale, worthy of another careful read, and available at: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html -- Christopher S. Swingley University of Alaska Fairbanks cswingle@i... http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/ OldTools Searchable Archive: http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157962 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-09 08:59:57 Subject: Re: Obituary for a Galoot > I would like to have known him. This is the kind of person we all need in our lives. Thank you for sharing that obit. Humbling and challenging all at once. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157963 ---- From: "Foster, Jim" Date: 2006-03-09 12:08:41 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Well, the one pallet I took apart a while ago was a pain in the butt joint. It used spiral shank nails that were in there real good and was hard to get apart without splitting the wood. I did get it apart finally and got some short pieces of wood out of it (a hard, nice looking tropical, which is why I bothered in the first place). There was also a lot of grit embedded in the bottom boards, though the top ones were okay. Another option is just saw through the boards right alongside of the nails and take things apart that way. I had to do this for a couple of the boards on my pallet. Sounds like yours has decent quality, though common, wood. It being newer, the nails are more likely to be easy to get out. I'd go for it 'cause I'm an inveterate scrounger. Worse case scenario is that you end up with a bunch of short boards. Well, I guess the worst case is that you have a bunch of good firewood. B^) Jim Foster Minnesota, and yes, I did try to use a good nail puller on those suckers. Some came out and some broke off. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made > up of six-foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots > and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new > palette, made specifically for this shipment. It is, however, > very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are > these keepers or is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157964 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-09 11:09:00 Subject: RE: camphor I've been using camphor for years, with no effects. The packages I got had about 1 oz cellophane wrapped. I cut an x into a side of the wrapping, and stuck them in the drawers, no problems. If a drawer is very tight, I get a bit of a smell when opened if not opened for a long time. But no big deal. I don't know if its stopped all rust, since I don't have a control test, but no rust in any of the drawers where I store chisels. Gary >Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who >recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the >rust demon >at bay? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157965 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-09 11:10:32 Subject: RE: Drawknife question >efficient use of space in one's toolbox. Plus which, the handles, >when folded, >protect both the cutting edge from nicks, and the proximate surfaces >from being >nicked by the cutting edge, when knocking about in said toolbox. Don't know about nicks on the blades, but it HELPS (doesn't cure) nicks on my knuckles! Gary Dr. Gary L. Yarrow, Director/RSO/CCHO General, Biological, Chemical and Radiation Safety Officer Environmental Health & Safety Office Shepard Hall 059; Box 2202 South Dakota State University Brookings, SD 57007-0896 www.sdstate.edu/Administration/EnvironmentalHealth&safety/ Office: 605-688-4264 Cell: 605-690-8397 Fax: 605-688-4290 "The Job Isn't Done Right, UNLESS its Done Safely" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157966 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-09 09:09:30 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I think we all do agree, really. Which is better, an erergetic kindly sympathetic hooker or a toothless emaciated slut getting thinner as time go on? What we're all looking for is the middle ground between K-mart pink and yellow plastic, total commercial hype. And the starving artist who can't pay their bills (me forinstance). If people go for the hype, then hype will win. Less work, more money. Only if they go out of their way to support the artist on purpose, will art survive. Traditionally, hype wins out. Your call. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157967 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-09 12:18:38 Subject: RE: Obituary for a Galoot Better than knowing him - cool as that would have been - would be to be remembered in a similar way. Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Mike Wenzloff > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:00 PM > To: Sgt42RHR@a...; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Obituary for a Galoot > > > I would like to have known him. > > This is the kind of person we all need in our lives. Thank you for > sharing that obit. > > Humbling and challenging all at once. > > Take care, Mike > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157968 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 09:22:46 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Wednesday 08 March 2006 07:19 pm, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > I also agree with James, Huck, Wendy.. I would like to hear > opposing views and explanation on where funding suppose to > come from for work of many people putting very often superb > information on the net. > > From my own experience, I know that I would have to spend some > Green, American dollars for information I can get free on the net. > > Of course, there are some websites that exist for the purpose of > cramming as much advertising, as will fit on the page, but there > are also sites, that do it in unobtrusive way. Not single'n out Wiktor's comments specific, there was a lot of folks putting their opinions in the ring about the internet. I don't care how you look at it, wether things are free that you used to pay for, or if folks should be charging you for what you can get, but the internet is changing things in a big way. Trying to charge folks for a service is the model to be used, but many have folded trying to charge for it. It's not quite so easy when others do offer something for free. During the dot-bomb era, folks were scramblin' to the net for the "gold-rush", and everyone was under the impression that if you just put a little 'i' or a little 'e' in your name, your were automagically a part of the eCommerce phoenomina that was taking place (and could get VC funding, which was spent foolishly in most cases;-). The idea of centralizing or de-centralizing information is looked at differently by different folks (as witnessed here on the porch), and from my view it gets down to the person who owns the data having the right to distribute their data as they see fit. Wether they offer it for free or not, is completely up to them. If advertising bothers you on a free video stream, its' simple, don't watch it. If you feel there is value in it and it doesn't bother you, by all means feel free to watch and absorb the information being shared, this is the very reason it was put on the web to share. It's the free information that has changed and is changing the way we do things. Still, many folks think there's a gold rush out there on the internet, and there is for some. Those some are the folks that can figure out how to pan for gold and be fortunate to create a business model that works. The rest of us can participate and share our data for free to try and help others. I commend all who offer information for free, it's the sharing of information available that help folks do things. Wether it's Boggs helping folks learn how to use a drawknife, or if it's scottg, bugbear, the millrat, or royg, or anyone else...thanks for those that have offered information for free, wether it is centralized or de-centralized. It's there for folks to use as a resource. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157969 ---- From: "Ellis, Thomas" Date: 2006-03-09 12:23:28 Subject: RE: The Woodworking Channel > scott grandstaff > I think we all do agree, really. > Which is better, an erergetic kindly sympathetic hooker or a > toothless > emaciated slut getting thinner as time go on? Is there some OT content there? :-) Tom Ellis Dayton OH Confidentiality Statement: This message is confidential and may contain confidential information it is intended only for the individual[s] named herein. If this message is being sent from a member of the legal department, it may also be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee[s] you must delete this email immediately do not disseminate, distribute or copy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157970 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 09:29:34 Subject: Re: Palette Wood On Thursday 09 March 2006 07:54 am, Jim McVicar wrote: > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made up of > six-foot, 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots and > the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made > specifically for this shipment. It is, however, very dry. I believe the latest Woodworker's Journal had an article on using palette wood for projects as a cheap alterntive to purchasing expensive lumber. It basically said it's a great source for wood, but you need to make sure that it is completely dry as it will warp and twist badly if not. They suggested stickering and making sure the wood content was dry before doing anything with them. I've used some palette wood for various things, the 4x4s come in handy, even the short ones. Lots of nails and/or screws in the palettes though, so you need to be careful as that metal will take a toll on edge tools.DAMHIKT! -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157971 ---- From: Peter Hahn Date: 2006-03-09 12:35:04 Subject: Re: boiling oil-mold? Mildew? Fungusamungus? I studied fungi a lot when I was a graduate student. Molds - mildews - mushrooms - toadstools - all common names for different forms of the very large fungi world. They are considered neither animals or plants. They generally grow as mycelium - filamentous microscopic forms (molds and mildews are terms that probably refer to this form of growth) - and occasionally form spores -either asexual e.g. the blue stuff on bread or in food left in the refrigerator - or sexual forms e.g. mushrooms/toadstools. The fungi play a major role recycling plant debris (including both wood and plant oils) and occasionally rotting wood in your house if it is wet. (also spalted wood) Fungi will also digest the oils in stains/sealers used to protect wood siding on houses which is why you have to re-oil treat your siding every few years. The majority of agricultural plant diseases are caused by Fungi. There are zillions of different kinds of them. They make up a big part of the soil. The key to preserving things from them is to keep things dry. There are lots of fungicides also. Peter Hahn On Mar 9, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > While mold/mildew/fungus has to this point not bothered any of my > wooden > tools, I have noticed that wooden furniture stored in one side of > my shop has > become covered with a very light covering of light grey/green/ > whitish stuff that > I refer to as 'mildew'. I have no idea what 'mildew' actually is, > or if > this stuff is mildew, or is it mold, or what? Looking it up didn't > clarify the > issue very much. It appears that mold and mildew are not the same, > but they > are both fungi? I guess I'm interested in knowing the best way to > get rid > of the stuff (I try to keep a dehumidfier running), and if I wipe > the stuff > off, it comes back. > > mildew--a fungus that produces a superficial (usually white) growth on > organic matter > > Mildew A common name for dark coloured molds which cause > disfiguration and > degradation. They can be found in interior (i.e. bathrooms) and > exterior > environments (i.e. tenting, awnings, painted siding). > > Mildew: A superficial coating or discoloration of organic materials > caused > by fungi, especially under damp conditions. > > Mildew is a grey, mold-like growth caused by one of two different > types of > micro-organisms. Mildew can thrive on any organic matter, not just > living > tissue, and can appear on clothing, leather, paper, and the > ceilings, walls and > floors of many homes. It often lives on shower walls. > > Molds A widespread group of fungi that are filamentous and > reproduce by > spore formation. They form hypha and mycelia. Molds are often found > on wood, > paper, cotton and other natural materials where they can cause > degradation. > > Cheers, > John > > John M. Johnston > 42d Grenr. Compy. > There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157972 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-09 12:41:29 Subject: Re: Drawknife question Plus which, the handles, >when folded, protect both the cutting edge from nicks, and the proximate surfaces >from being >nicked by the cutting edge, when knocking about in said toolbox. Don't know about nicks on the blades, but it HELPS (doesn't cure) nicks on my knuckles! While we are on the subject of drawknives, I learned a lesson last night. When you are working on the shave pony, sitting on a stool in front of it, rounding a Maple lathe blank with the drawknife, resist the temptation to work down both sides of the blank. Its is better to turn the blank in the shave pony, and keep your knife blade relativly horizontal, than it is to tilt your drawknive almost to vertical, and smack yourself between the lower extremiities when a big chip comes loose. You don't have to ask how I know this. Michael-San Francisco, Trying to keep the dumbest of the dumb moves to a single occurance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157973 ---- From: Douglas Hanson Date: 2006-03-09 09:45:47 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Well I for one am glad to hear this subject being discussed, I recently acquired a recurring source for a rather substaitial amount of these in addition to actual full crates that heavey equipment peices are shipped overseas on and am planning on using them to construct a shop with, any comments and or suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. regards Doug in S. E. Ga --- "Foster, Jim" wrote: > > Well, the one pallet I took apart a while ago was a > pain in the > butt joint. It used spiral shank nails that were in > there > real good and was hard to get apart without > splitting the > wood. I did get it apart finally and got some short > pieces of > wood out of it (a hard, nice looking tropical, which > is why > I bothered in the first place). There was also a lot > of grit > embedded in the bottom boards, though the top ones > were okay. > Another option is just saw through the boards right > alongside > of the nails and take things apart that way. I had > to do this > for a couple of the boards on my pallet. Sounds like > yours has > decent quality, though common, wood. It being newer, > the nails > are more likely to be easy to get out. I'd go for it > 'cause I'm > an inveterate scrounger. Worse case scenario is that > you end up > with a bunch of short boards. Well, I guess the > worst case is that > you have a bunch of good firewood. B^) > > Jim Foster > Minnesota, and yes, I did try to use a good nail > puller on those > suckers. Some came out and some broke off. > > > > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon > inspection, is made > > up of six-foot, > > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits > or knots > > and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this > is a new > > palette, made specifically for this shipment. It > is, however, > > very dry. > > > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak > boards. Are > > these keepers or is palette wood more headache > than it's worth? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157974 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-09 11:58:04 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Jim & GGs--I always look through any pile that says free pallets or free firewood. A few years ago I helped an old friend install some furniture he had ordered from Thailand. Believe it or not, it was crated in Teak wood! My heart went pitter-pat and I brought all of it home, pulled the nails and ran it through a tailed apprentice. It was hard as h*ll, but not a knot in the lot. One man's junk is still another man's treasure! Go fer it! Pallet wood may be free, but it ain't easy. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Jim McVicar > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:55 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Palette Wood > > > We've just purchased some furniture for the office and some of it came on > palettes. Notably, two of them were six-foot long with eight good boards > on > each (with a few nail holes). One of them uses construction-grade > softwood, > probably because it wasn't carrying muck weight. > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon inspection, is made up of six- > foot, > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits or knots and the boards > are pretty flat. It looks like this is a new palette, made specifically > for > this shipment. It is, however, very dry. > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak boards. Are these keepers > or > is palette wood more headache than it's worth? > > As usual, I await the wisdom of the Porch and appreciate any advice. > > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157975 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-03-09 13:14:36 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Well, if you want to know about pallet wood, just search the archives for 'pallet'--mebbe a hundred hits. Including a classic Stephen LaManchia comment, " If you have received complaints from your neighbors regarding the stack of pallets in your front yard, you may be a Galoot.." Sandy Tools for Sale list at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm Brace Collection at http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm >From: Douglas Hanson >To: "Foster, Jim" , oldtools@r... >Subject: RE: [OldTools] Palette Wood >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) > >Well I for one am glad to hear this subject being >discussed, I recently acquired a recurring source for >a rather substaitial amount of these in addition to >actual full crates that heavey equipment peices are >shipped overseas on and am planning on using them to >construct a shop with, > any comments and or suggestions are welcomed and >appreciated. >regards >Doug >in S. E. Ga > >--- "Foster, Jim" wrote: > > > > > Well, the one pallet I took apart a while ago was a > > pain in the > > butt joint. It used spiral shank nails that were in > > there > > real good and was hard to get apart without > > splitting the > > wood. I did get it apart finally and got some short > > pieces of > > wood out of it (a hard, nice looking tropical, which > > is why > > I bothered in the first place). There was also a lot > > of grit > > embedded in the bottom boards, though the top ones > > were okay. > > Another option is just saw through the boards right > > alongside > > of the nails and take things apart that way. I had > > to do this > > for a couple of the boards on my pallet. Sounds like > > yours has > > decent quality, though common, wood. It being newer, > > the nails > > are more likely to be easy to get out. I'd go for it > > 'cause I'm > > an inveterate scrounger. Worse case scenario is that > > you end up > > with a bunch of short boards. Well, I guess the > > worst case is that > > you have a bunch of good firewood. B^) > > > > Jim Foster > > Minnesota, and yes, I did try to use a good nail > > puller on those > > suckers. Some came out and some broke off. > > > > > > > > The other one had a heavy load and, upon > > inspection, is made > > > up of six-foot, > > > 1x5 oak. The wood is in good shape with no splits > > or knots > > > and the boards are pretty flat. It looks like this > > is a new > > > palette, made specifically for this shipment. It > > is, however, > > > very dry. > > > > > > Heaven forbid I should throw out 48 feet of oak > > boards. Are > > > these keepers or is palette wood more headache > > than it's worth? > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > > of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > > the history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > > restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > >To read the FAQ: >http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > >OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > >OldTools@r... >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157976 ---- From: "Shine, Stephen C \(Steve\), ALABS" Date: 2006-03-09 13:18:58 Subject: A footnote on making carving mallets ("Millrat Specials") GGs, While making my 3rd batch of Jim's carving mallets (thanks again for the tutorials, Jim), I discovered I'd inadvertently turned the mallet heads too small for the job as the 2" ABS plastic slid onto the heads very easily when I heated the PVC. I initially attributed this to me incorrectly measuring the ID of the pipe, perhaps due to the fact it was a balmy 12 deg F in my shop when I whipped out the calipers, or perhaps the very cold plastic contracted so much that I got a false measurement. So when the temp went to something resembling "normal", the plastic expanded, making for a loose fit. That was several weeks ago. Fast-forward to 30 minutes ago: I just slid one of the oversized plastic tubes off my mallet, and just for yucks tried to stick the mallet into another piece of plastic from the very same 10' section of pipe. The head is too large to go in w/o heating the plastic, and it feels like it'll be a darn tight fit (i.e., perfect). This leads me to believe that the inner diameter of a plastic pipe can vary radically, and it's best to take a different measure for each mallet. I post this in hopes of preventing others from making the same mistake. Steve in Howell, NJ where the weather is beautimus! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157977 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-09 12:25:17 Subject: Cheap/free wood...pallet wood Since discussing pallet wood, i.e., cheap wood (wouldn't really call it free, you have lots of time in it). Another place that I have found to have cheap wood, is old dressers, other furniture, etc. The ones that are beyond hope, not of any real significance (not built really well), etc. The drawers of a lot of these old things are commonly made from oak, maple or poplar, and if the drawers you're making are smaller, well Bob's your uncle. I started buying some of those $5 chest of drawers at auctions and have reused a lot of this wood. Really started this after a class with Alan Peters who said that much of his drawers are from reclaimed wood "They've moved and twisted and shrunk all they are going to". He still planed on some movement, but its been minimalized over the years. Works very well. BTW, I got the video from Rob Cosman that has discussions with Alan Peters. Unfortunately, after seeing the DVD and emailing with Cosman, its obvious that Peters is suffering the ravages of age, including various medical conditions. Peters was/is one of the great designers and builders of our time, but it won't be long before we lose that piece of furniture making history. Although I didn't think he was a very good teacher, his work was/is superb, watching him cut dovetails, well, you knew that it was an art as well as a science. One thing that he still does, which is interesting to watch, is his hands are constantly touching, feeling, almost caressing wood that he is working on. Always checking for imperfections and that pleasant tactile sense of wood. He is unable to build things anymore, but according to Cosman, he still has a lot of ideas. Gary Gary Yarrow Two Herbs Workshop 819 Harvey Dunn St. Brookings, SD 57006-0896 www.twoherbs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157978 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 11:05:36 Subject: Re: Cheap/free wood...pallet wood On Thursday 09 March 2006 10:25 am, Yarrow, Gary wrote: > BTW, I got the video from Rob Cosman that has discussions with Alan > Peters. Unfortunately, after seeing the DVD and emailing with Cosman, > its obvious that Peters is suffering the ravages of age, including > various medical conditions. I agree, I just got the video recentely. At 72 years old, he can still cut the dovetails to the line though! The last scene with the gallery of his work shows some very tasty pieces. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157979 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-09 15:09:13 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel I watched the drawknife video and I didn't get that impression at all. However, I know what you mean. I watch a lot of the car oriented shows and they're always promoting various products. Wendy On Thursday 09 March 2006 01:24 am, Alex Moseley wrote: > > My initial reaction to the content and the presentation was that the > knowledge being presented was at risk of taking a back seat to L-N's > advertising message, and that to me seems disengenuous. I don't think I'm > the first person to wince at the way L-N videos blur the line between > education and marketing, either. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157980 ---- From: Steven Longley Date: 2006-03-09 12:21:33 Subject: Re: camphor --- Phil E. asked: > Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working > out As Gary stated before me, I too have used camphor blocks for several years and I believe that they work, but I've never performed a controlled test. But, FWIW, I have cannot recall a new major rust problem since I have been using them – but I'm sure that they're not a cure all - just one line of defense. As for the Vicks Salve odor (nasal decongestant - Jeff), I find it somewhat pleasant and have begun to associate it positively with the other smells and odors in the workshop. Besides, once you've permeated the inside of a cabinet with it, you know when you've left a drawer or door open! Steve in Dallas Who has not had a stopped up nose while working in the shop in a long time. http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sLongley/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157981 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-09 15:39:57 Subject: Re: Palette Wood At 11:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple >or maybe alder. More than a few years ago I had a source of pallet wood. There was a run of it for a while that was cherry. Also saw some walnut and maple. Matter of fact, I was using a number of the cherry boards as tool tables at outdoor events. At one of the CRAFT's picnics, one of the original NJ Galoots, saw my boards and asked how much I wanted for some. I said I'd give him a few after selling was done. Still got some of that stuff SOMEPLACE. The place where he was getting them from is just down the road from me and they have a big pile of free pallets for firewood. I ain't had a chance to stop to see if there is anything worthwhile there. I also remember that for a while some of the Honda and Yamaha motorcycle crates were coming over with mahogany and other exotics. Tony (whose workbench top is made from oak beams destined for pallet runners) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157982 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-10 07:22:58 Subject: Re: boiling oil Blake, that strong smelling Tea Tree Oil is most likely the oil of an Australian native Melaleuca (Ti Tree). It is a natural disinfectant, particularly useful for skin irritations and fungal infections like athlete's foot. You might be onto something here :-) Blake Ashley wrote: > Here in the States, I believe Tea Tree Oil and Camellia oil are two > very different substances. > I bought my Tea Tree Oil at a health food store and it > has a VERY strong odor and causes a burning sensation on the skin like > liniment. > > Blake -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157983 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-09 17:08:02 Subject: My Next Learning Project Having reached my goals for now at woodturning it's time for a little cleanup and on to the next goal. Over the next couple of weeks I am going to learn how to sharpen a handsaw. To date I have been sending saws out to be sharpened and the guy that has been doing them does a fantastic job. However, sharpening ones own tools is a must. When a chisel gets dull you don't quit chiseling and send it out for sharpening. The same principle applies to handsaws. If anyone is interested I will keep the list informed and post pics on my website. Just let me know. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157984 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-10 06:04:17 Subject: Re: Camphor blocks and rust Phil wrote in part: Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon at bay? PeterH chips in: I can categorically say that little has rusted in the entire home of my elderly MIL. And as for the smell, when the missus & I go visit, I prefer to sit outside near the back corner of the fence. The corner selected depending on wind direction. BTW, has any-one else experienced watery eyes and a choking sensation when sat in a room surrounded by concentrated camphor? ;^) OT content: no rust. PeterH in Perth anonymous silverfish breeder ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157985 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-09 16:35:37 Subject: RE: My Next Learning Project Bill said: To date I have been sending saws out to be sharpened and the guy that has been doing them does a fantastic job. However, sharpening ones own tools is a must. When a chisel gets dull you don't quit chiseling and send it out for sharpening. The same principle applies to handsaws. Rob mentioned: The good news is that it's in fact easier do a good job sharpening a saw than to do a good job sharpening a chisel. Well, let me qualify that. Sharpening a saw with decent saw vice and an aid to measure the fleam and rake is about the same difficulty (but not level of effort) as sharpening a chisel with a good honing guide. YMMV, but I can more easily sharpen saws well than chisels... Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie www.jlatech.com/rob/Woodworking/Knowledge%20Base.htm Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157986 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-09 14:39:49 Subject: From one body to another Gentle Galoots, I have 2 questions. First, I'm busy fitting the brass sides to the iron sole on my little dovetailed infill and on the first side I've got it halfway meshed together. It looks like I could knock it together without further work, but should I? It seems silly to file it down so it fits by hand pressure alone and then go and peen it together anyway. So my question is, force or file? Second, I'm attempting to fix a rusted-out hole in my car's body and I was wondering what tools the Modern Galoot has at his disposal for this task. Any and all help would be appreciated (off-list probably??), I'm thinking specifically about cutting the metal away and then how to hide the riveting.. Don't make me use my angle grinder! :> My best to all, Adriaan Ps: Pass the spittoon, not sure question 2 is on topic.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157987 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-09 16:40:37 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel GG, Alan, thank you for the mention. As I've said before, this is a hobby for me so I don't expect to make money on my woodworking or the things I do to put on OTS and WKFineTools. However I understand the need to make a living for those to whom this is a vocation. Basically my sentiments are "If I gotta watch commercials then I'd rather watch tool commercials." Now if they start advertising cars, hair growth formula's (too late for me) or female hygene products, I probably won't watch anymore... As it is now I'm looking forward to being able to see demo's, people, tools, and techniques that I haven't seen before. Their success can only improve the hobby and I for one wish them all the luck in the world. But I still can't afford L_N tools...so I'll just have to get out the lobster bib and dream of all those purty tools. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157988 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-09 18:03:35 Subject: Re: Hacksaws Trevor Robinson wrote: > Hi, All > I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of > hacksaws. Well I have a hacksaw question. I know that Millers Falls produced a line of tools with red plastic handles and that the ones with the clear handles seem to be more uppity than the ones without. Yesterday i picked up a M-f #84 hacksaw with a clear red handle. Is this thing worth any more than just being a hacksaw? Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157989 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-09 18:27:00 Subject: Re: camphor Gary related .... > I've been using camphor for years, with no effects. > The packages I got > had about 1 oz cellophane wrapped. After our little deescussion a while back, I bought a box of 128 of these lozenge sized blocks and popped a few of them out of their wrappers and into various drawers and storage spots. The odor upon opening drawers dissipates fairly quickly, and as yet I've seen no rust appearing where it was appearing only a few months before. The real test will be summer, when the dehumidifier works yeoman duty given our delightful June-August climate (at least I have a new dehumidifier provided at no charge per warranty since the old one seized its compressor in January and was dragged by its tail back to the store from which it came). The camphor blocks seemed to be relatively cheap extra insurance if they work, and $18 bought what has to be a good 5 yrs supply delivered to my mailbox. According to the instructions, I should also have a shop free of moths and silverfish, although I haven't had much concern about those in a long time. Wonder if this stuff also does the job on powder post beetles? Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157990 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-10 00:52:42 Subject: Re: boiling oil Blake Ashley wrote : > > Here in the States, I believe Tea Tree Oil and Camellia oil are two > very different substances. I bought my camellia oil from the Japan > Woodworker. It is a light oil with almost no odor at all and no effect > on exposed skin. I bought my Tea Tree Oil at a health food store and > it has a VERY strong odor and causes a burning sensation on the skin > like liniment. Blake, Tea tree oil (I suppose you are talking about essential oil) is the common name for "melaleuca alternifolia" oil, it is excellent for skin care and has antioxydant and antiseptic properties. Now I may be wrong and you were really talking about tea oil (as oily as sunflower oil or other vegetable oil). The tea oil I was mentioning comes from the actual tea tree, the one we can drink instead of coffee. It is the "camellia sinsensis". And from "camellia sinensis" to "camellia japonica" it was easy to make the mistake as they are both called camellia oil and in chinese and japanese they are written the same! Ludo in Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157991 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-10 01:01:20 Subject: Re: boiling oil [alternative] Stewart wrote: > /Fellow Galoots , I have been using a product called > > FUNGISHEILD.(Feastwatson brand). > > The product is designed to seal the timber , and protect it from > diseases such as mold. Hi Stewart, Fungishield may be a good idea for timber used outside a living environment, but I had the feeling it might not be 100% natural. I searched for more information on the product and found this: http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-cds-010- 000000003471.pdf The major ingredient is turpentine, but contains hazardous elements. Well, I'd rather not use it on my planes! So be carefull when you use the product. Ludo, Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157992 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-09 19:08:09 Subject: Re: Hacksaws I've got a question for the assembled galooterati, Who made the large cast framed hacksaw, like a hacksaw miterbox. Complete with a vise in the base. I've seen this tool once, but didn't make note of who made it. TIA, Michael -----Original Message----- From: Michele Minch To: oldtools digest recipients Sent: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:03:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hacksaws Trevor Robinson wrote: > Hi, All > I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of > hacksaws. Well I have a hacksaw question. I know that Millers Falls produced a line of tools with red plastic handles and that the ones with the clear handles seem to be more uppity than the ones without. Yesterday i picked up a M-f #84 hacksaw with a clear red handle. Is this thing worth any more than just being a hacksaw? Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. To read the FAQ: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157993 ---- From: Ludo Angot Date: 2006-03-10 01:12:16 Subject: RE: boiling oil John and Paul, I didn't know neither about addding kerosene. Now I understand why some of my planes that I recently got from Japan had a strong smell of this fuel! However the planes didn't seem to have been oiled, so the kerosene might have been applied pure. In Japan humidity is very high also. Have any of you experienced adding essential oil to a vegetable oil for wood treatment? I have some ideas: some essential oil have antifungic properties if I'm not wrong. I'll check some literature about essential oil. It would make it safe for food contact (providing you use organic essential oil, they can be injested. But in minute quantities!), or for use with baby toys. Ludo, Taiwan _________________________________________________________________- __________ Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international. Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157994 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-09 19:57:16 Subject: (no subject) Subject: [OldTools] Hacksaws To: oldtools@r... Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Hi, All I finally decided that I might say something on the subject of >hacksaws. As a boy I used the hacksaw that my father had, a familiar >type with a turned hsndle, parallel to the blade. I didn't like it then >because small hands made it hard to feel in control. I don't like that >style now, either, for the same reaon. When I was about ten, I >persuaded my mother to give me a pistol-gripped one, which cost a >quarter from Sears. I still have it and use it occasionally, although >it is no longer my regular user. For awhile I had a RIGID, a strong >tool but with an uncomfortable handle. Now my favorite is a PARKER, and >I don't know if they are still available. It has a closed, plastic >handle that feels just right. If you can find one, buy it, I say. For >smaller work I use one that has a cast iron frame that takes 8" blades. >I don't think that any like that are made anymore, but they are not >uncommon at flea markets and yard sales. For blades, I like Starrett >and Lenox. Trevor Parker made hacksaw blades for many years in Worcester, Massachusetts, before selling the business to Stanley in the late '80's. Known for about 8 more years as Stanley Parker, they finally were closed and absorbed into Stanley. Parker made the blades, but bought the handles from another manufacturer (which is quite common still in the industry). Starrett and Lenox blades??? Yikes, pu-lease!!! Of course, as an employee of Simonds, I would say that!!! Lenox blades are very good - equal to Simonds quality! Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157995 ---- From: "Brian McInturff" Date: 2006-03-09 20:00:36 Subject: RE: Re: Camphor blocks and rust I've been using Camphor for years and haven't any problems with rust. The smell disipates quickly after I've opened the door and entered the shop. My shop space is small right now 12x16 and I have probably 20 blocks out. My shop is a metal building with paneling on the inside and in the winter it can get moist in there. I also wax a lot of my tools for this reason also. When I was in the Military I was a Chemical Specialist and when we ran the CS(Gas) chamber we use to use camphor afterwards to help clear up and clear out the choking agent. It worked great and is where I learned it's effects on steel as an inhibitor. Brian McInturff in Myrtle Beach philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Peter Huisman > To: ; > Date: 3/10/2006 9:07:51 AM > Subject: [OldTools] Re: Camphor blocks and rust > > Phil wrote in part: > > Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who > recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon > at bay? > > PeterH chips in: > > I can categorically say that little has rusted in the entire home of > my elderly MIL. And as for the smell, when the missus & I go visit, > I prefer to sit outside near the back corner of the fence. The corner > selected depending on wind direction. > > BTW, has any-one else experienced watery eyes and a choking sensation > when sat in a room surrounded by concentrated camphor? ;^) > > OT content: no rust. > > PeterH in Perth > anonymous silverfish breeder > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157996 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-10 12:21:27 Subject: Re: Plane Eating Molds Hi All, A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and water solution. About 8 parts water to 1 part white vinegar is about right. Cheap, effective and non toxic. Not sure what the effect on wooden items would be. Peter B, Australia N.A. Mitkowski wrote: > It is unlikely that the mold (aka fungi) people have described > appearing on oil treated planes will not harm the plane > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157997 ---- From: "Steve Lineback" Date: 2006-03-09 20:39:31 Subject: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) Fellow Galoots I think that there are two different classes involved in this issue. There are some wonderful people Wictor and Ken Greenberg are two who are willing to host sites to post hard won knowledge ( paid for in blood by those of us who are terminally clumsy) who are willing to share with whoever wishes. The other class are the wonderful people who make wonderful great quality and tools. If they go out of business so will we. Those of us carrying AARP cards don't have to worry but ever day more of the old tool are broken or destroyed or PAINTED ( I hate painted saws).Our kids or grandkids are going to have to find other tools to do what we do. If I have to watch an infomercial to keep Tom Lie-Neilson in business. I may never have the spare money to have one but the fact that he make them insures that this hobby will continue after all the Stanley's are destroyed or in museums. I will now get off my soap box and go back to a new book on making workbenches I found in the library Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157998 ---- From: "N.A. Mitkowski" Date: 2006-03-09 21:01:43 Subject: Re: Plane Eating Molds Yes, the acetic acid in vinegar will inhibit fungi. I have used a number of organic acids to knock down fungal and nematode pathogens experimentally in agricultural soils. They very much dislike low pH. But as with most solutions, it may only be temporary. The acid will eventually break down, volatilize or be absorbed into the wood where it is likely to bind and/or react with organic molecules and become inactive. Peroxide is another pretty inexpensive and safe option but I am not sure what it would do to the wood. If fungi are coming back repeatedly because they have penetrated into the wood, these treatments may provide some extended relief. If the fungi are truly superficial and coming back because of the humidity, they won't have much affect in the long term. Some have mentioned fungicides and they do work, but a plane is a bad place to apply them. Fungicides are poisons and it would be unwise to lather a tool in such chemicals and then handle the tool, as you would very likely absorb or ingest a good bit of it. I'm with Scott on this one, I would be a lot more concerned about rust development than those friendly fungi. You'll never get rid of the fungi, they are floating around everywhere and will be around long after we have gone, thank goodness! Now if you decide to store your planes in a puddle on the basement floor, then you are definitely going to see structural fungal attack. But high humidity in the absence of free water is unlikely to allow things to get that far. Dropping the moisture will certainly slow down the superficial organisms. As for the terms mold and mildew, they are really very generic in meaning and can change depending upon your context. They don't really describe a taxonomic group of organisms, just some general morphology or symptoms and I don't use either term if I can help it. Best to just stick with the words fungi or fungus. Nathaniel >Hi All, > >A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and >water solution. >About 8 parts water to 1 part white vinegar is about right. >Cheap, effective and non toxic. >Not sure what the effect on wooden items would be. > >Peter B, Australia > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 157999 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-09 18:09:06 Subject: Today's estate sale in Santa Ana This one sucked pretty bad. It was advertised saying, " tons of old hand tools." Well, I guess there were, but most of it was dreck, old tire irons, a million rusty Taiwanese screwdrivers and hammers, 3 wrecked hand saws. I found 2 intact Stanley block planes that I didn't need, 3 Forstner bits, and a 16" long perfect handle screwdriver. I didn't have one that big. There were some rusty taper shank auger bits, but they looked too tired for me. That's it. Spent $10, and if I hadn't traveled all the way from Riverside in nasty traffic, I wouldn't have bought anything. You just can't go home empty handed. At least my buddy who was driving had a transponder for the toll lanes, so that helped speed the trip. We stopped at what used to be Rockler in Orange, but they have moved from that location. Took us 15 minutes to get back on the freeway. I gave Paddy a heads up on this one, but he said he couldn't make it. You done good not coming, Paddy! It wasn't worth the effort. But you lose a few, then lose a few more. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158000 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-09 19:18:38 Subject: RE: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) Well... Looks like you guys are all too comfortable here... I don't know about Ken, but I might begin charging for all the work... ;-)... Unless you start sending some articles and other items to post on OldToolsShop. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Lineback > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:40 PM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: [OldTools] Old Tool and advertising was (The > Woodworking Channel) > > Fellow Galoots > I think that there are two different classes involved in this > issue. There are some wonderful people Wictor and Ken > Greenberg are two who are willing to host sites to post hard > won knowledge ( paid for in blood by those of us who are > terminally clumsy) who are willing to share with whoever > wishes. The other class are the wonderful people who make > wonderful great quality and tools. If they go out of business > so will we. > Those of us carrying AARP cards don't have to worry but ever > day more of the old tool are broken or destroyed or PAINTED ( > I hate painted saws).Our kids or grandkids are going to have > to find other tools to do what we do. If I have to watch an > infomercial to keep Tom Lie-Neilson in business. I may never > have the spare money to have one but the fact that he make > them insures that this hobby will continue after all the > Stanley's are destroyed or in museums. > I will now get off my soap box and go back to a new book on > making workbenches I found in the library Steve > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158001 ---- From: wayne.a.anderson@a... Date: 2006-03-10 02:14:13 Subject: Re: hacksaws The maker of the framed hacksaw (like a miterbox) was Goodell-Pratt. You can see the catalog info here: http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id75.html Wayne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158002 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-09 21:20:29 Subject: Re: Plane Eating Molds At 08:21 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >Hi All, > >A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and >water solution. What works for me is good old mineral spirits or turpentine. Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158003 ---- From: r.roeder@m... Date: 2006-03-10 04:20:05 Subject: Online gallery of Millers Falls plant Hi all, In 1975, Millers Falls Company president Jim Mitchell had his son Monty take a series of 50 photos showing the delapidated condition of the plant in Greenfield. He had the photos taken to convince Ingersoll-Rand corporate headquarters that a new facility needed to be built. I've put together a gallery of 18 of the more interesting images and added it to the pages for Millers Falls collectors. The page has 18 clickable thumbnails. If you're interested go to: http://oldtoolheaven.com/history/plantgallery.htm Just a reminder, the old site at coe.edu is sadly out of date--they haven't gotten around to getting it down yet. Randy Roeder Repaint houses, not old tools. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158004 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-09 20:40:25 Subject: Re: Re: The Woodworking Channel On Thursday 09 March 2006 02:40 pm, roygriggs@v... wrote: > Alan, thank you for the mention. As I've said before, this is a hobby for > me so I don't expect to make money on my woodworking or the things I do > to put on OTS and WKFineTools. However I understand the need to make a > living for those to whom this is a vocation. Right, exactly my point. The folks that whom it is a vocation are threatened by the little hobbyist like you. The internet is the equalizer. You have some great info that you share, as do many other galoots on the porch, and this very existence threatens the big guys. All through our lives, we've been controlled by the "big guy" who could afford to advertise, be it on tv, radio, publications, magazines, etc...who controls the copyrights and ownership of data.... Now, a group of galoots on the porch, helping each other, sharing ideas and information for free. In many cases sharing tools, materials, ideas on how to solve a problem...Does this fly in the face of the large woodworking affiliations? Sure, but at the same time we like many of them also... > Basically my sentiments are "If I gotta watch commercials then I'd rather > watch tool commercials." My sentiments are that if it's free, you can't say it's not worth what you paid for it. If it bothers folks that some would put advertising on their streaming media, simple, create your own media that doesn't have any advertising. There's an idea for Wiktor possibly, to have a streaming server for the porch. Would that threaten folks like LN who produce videos now? Although I don't think it would effect their sales much, it would still threaten them. > But > I still can't afford L_N tools...so I'll just have to get out the lobster > bib and dream of all those purty tools. Does it matter? You have your share of tools Roy!;-) I have a couple LN tools. Good stuff. I've bought videos from them also, they're prompt. They sell quality tools. LV does as well (gotta love their vises, hand planes, other specialty items...). My problem is I like new tools also. Not sure I like either old or new any better than the other, I can appreciate a fine tool no matter what the age. Ain't nothing wrong with old tools... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158005 ---- From: Mme4u2meh@a... Date: 2006-03-10 00:19:28 Subject: Re: pallatte wood and bio update (Steve Kumpf) Hey, guys, long time no talk. Just a quick thought. Remember that someone thought it was pallet wood for a reason. I can't say anything for the guy or girl or computer who made the decision though. I've been taking a break from the galooting for a while to save money and to pick the guitar back up after 4 years. Before that I had been playing for ten years. I am now obsessed with gaining back my skill. I am also working for a G. C. doing McDonalds and Wendy's remodels and new stores. I do all the interior finish work. I'm diggin' this working for someone else thing right now. I'm able to save quite a bit every week and my stress has gone way down. I think I'm going to ride this wave for a while. Feeling great right now. Steve Kumpf Philadelphia PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158006 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-10 18:37:59 Subject: Re: boiling oil Paul Schobernd writes: > John & Ludo--I have only used boiled Linseed Oil and have never heard of > adding kerosene! That is a new recipe, at least for me. I normally cut > mine with Turpentine or sometimes plain old mineral spirits. Does the smell > of the Kerosene dissipate fairly quickly? IME Kerosene takes forever to stop > off-gassing! DAMHINT, but it involved a vehicle and a can in the trunk/boot. I take it that the "N" in "DAMHINT" stands for "Nose"? Turps seems a lot more volatile than kero but one would think that mould ... err ... fungus would not have too pleasant a time of it whilst it persisted. One may consult Leviticus for mildew suppression but, supposing one can readily get hold of an appropriate priest, the following of the recommendations therein contained might be perceived as amounting to a bit of overkill for a couple of planes. The smell of kerosene dissipates fairly quickly but its fungus-killing properties appear to persist long after the smell has gone away. It was most educational to read the rather definitive replies regarding fungus and its fellows. What a great forum this is! I'm at one with Peter Robinson in concluding that the tea tree oil described is a product of one or other of the Melaleuca varieties. It certainly does attack fungus and is professionally prescribed for the treatment of fungal toenails. It's a pretty powerful distillate and a little bit goes a loooooooong way. Best left in the medicine chest, in my view. Put it this way. One can wash one's hands in kerosene and the natural grease (lipids?) will shortly reappear. Wash one's hands in ti-tree oil and they'll be taking skin off one's bum to furnish one with a new set of featureless fingerprints. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158007 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-10 20:15:05 Subject: Re: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) Steve Lineback wrote: > I will now get off my soap box and go back to a new book on making > workbenches I found in the library > Steve > Hey Steve, there's a new book on making workbenches? What's it like? What is it? You can't just throw that out there without details :-) -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158008 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-10 06:30:10 Subject: I kept the palette. Now what? Thanks to everyone who offered advice on my recently acquired oak palette. I've taken it home, planed an edge to expose its inner beauty and sat back to admire it for a while. Now I need to find a use for it. There is more than enough of it for the drawer fronts I'll need when I build a cabinet under the bench this spring, but most the rest of the bench uses smooth, clear-grained woods and I think the coarse grain of the oak would contrast a bit too much. I haven't made up my mind on this yet. What I'm currently thinking, for some of it, is vise jaws. My front vice is a metal quick-release style and the tail vice is all maple (except for the 2" x 18" wood screw, which I haven't identified yet). The oak is wide enough to make jaw faces but I wonder if its coarse grain is more susceptible to splitting under pressure. I can double-up the 3/4" boards to make a good thick jaw face, which will help add strength but I'd hate to build a nice set of jaws, only to have a corner chip off. I know oak is mighty but the edges can be surprisingly brittle sometimes. Is a chamfer the easy answer? I simply don't have enough experience with oak to know its limits. Thanks in advance, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158009 ---- From: "Karl W. Sanger" Date: 2006-03-10 07:10:25 Subject: And you thought RUST was worthless Galoots, Almost none of you look at old machinist tools. They are also old tools too and faaaaaarrrrrrrr scarcer than any Stanley item number for number. And, they were sold in less number than you favorite plane maker. But, this is a wood forum, not an old tool forum. Anyway, if you are interested in rusty old tools that sell for $2370+ and happen to be a machinist tool, take a look: < http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6259110368 > Oh, and for the two of you that aren't into just using tools, you might like to know that the other one of these, extant, is in good plus to fine shape. It was bought 10 years ago from a knowledgeable seller of popular old planes for a grand total of $35!!! *********************************************** * Karl W. Sanger * * Desperately seeking antique * * Machinist Tools!!! * * (Email: sangerkw@m...) * * in the Nature Coast area, Florida * *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158010 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-10 07:20:54 Subject: RE: Plane Eating Molds I gotta go with Tony and Turps as well, but I do have a question regarding what the vinegar would do to the wood? I am sure it would take off the mold, but what else what it do, either positive or negative? I have seen old recipes that include vinegar in combination with BLO and Turps, but I have never tried vinegar in a combination. Truth of the matter I keep a jug of BLO and Turps and it covers a multitude of jobs, including wiping off any mold. Now that I can control the heat/cooling and humidity in my old basement shop I rarely get a bloom of fuzz anymore unless I put something against an outside basement brick wall that is not insulated. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Eating Molds > > At 08:21 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >A very cheap mold killer is a good old fashioned white vinegar and > >water solution. > > What works for me is good old mineral spirits or turpentine. > > Tony > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158011 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 05:50:35 Subject: block planes My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded a couple of items including two 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 planes. Here is the problem: While these 2 planes appear to be identical at first glance, one is a half inch shorter than the other, as the rear is bobbed. But this is not a cobble job, it was made this way. And the smaller one has a depression machined into each side for what I would call thumb grips. I also notice that the blade adjusting screw is a little longer on the smaller one. Both are marked Stanley on the moveable piece in front that closes the mouth. I can see no other differences, even on close inspection. I read the pertinent 9 1/2 information on Blood and Gore, and the larger of the 2 seems to match perfectly. I am left to assume that the smaller one must be a Frankenplane. If you replaced the front adjustable piece with a Stanley piece, this would be the result. What say ye? Is this what happened? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158012 ---- From: Adriaan Gerber Date: 2006-03-10 05:54:42 Subject: Re: The Woodworking Channel Bill wrote: >If anyone is interested I will keep the list informed and post pics on >my website. Just let me know. I'd sure like to see your progress in pictures, I still haven't tried my hand at saw sharpening and I need some inspiration! I just bought a 6' crosscut saw blade at $1/foot that I can start on. Brother Scott wrote: >Which is better, an erergetic kindly sympathetic hooker or a toothless >emaciated slut getting thinner as time go on? To take your delightful analogy further, I've always felt that s3x is not something I'm willing to pay for, if only I apply myself I could get it for nothing, or at the very least, cheaply :> Same with a lot of other things. I do agree with supporting the starving artist, too bad they're not the ones clamoring for our cash with the ever-present commercials. I've just been reading "Against the Machine" and there's a list of questions that Wendell Berry suggests needs answering before buying a new tool: * The new tool should be cheaper than the one it replaces. * It should be at least as small in scale as the one it replaces. * It should do work that is clearly and demonstrably better than the one it replaces. * It should use less energy than the one it replaces. * If possible it should use some sort of solar energy, such as that of the body. * It should be repairable by a person of ordinary intelligence, provided that he or she has the necessary tools. * It should be purchasable and repairable as near to home as possible. * It should come from a small, privately-owned shop or store that will take it back for maintenance and repair. * It should not replace or disrupt anything good that already exists, and this includes family and community relationships. > the starving artist who can't pay their bills (me forinstance). Yo Scott, I don't have money, but I have time, so if ya need an apprentice.. :> Adriaan, who always stops at lemonade stands __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158013 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-10 08:12:51 Subject: RE: boiling oil Greeting John & GGs, My apologies for putting an N where the K belongs in DAMHIKT, but I am sorta new to this lingo! Sometimes I do wonder whether we are always talking about the same products. Tea Tree oil that we get here in the States is melaleuca alternifolia and is generally, IME, sold in relative small quantities and is somewhat expensive, but it is not anywhere nearly as nasty as you describe the product you know. I have used it medicinally for years, you just have to sit by yourself on a bus or drive with the windows rolled down. At first I just dismissed it as a product to be used on wood due its expense, but the more I thought about it, if the Tea Tree Oil saturated the wood surface it might just work. But, it would be an expensive proposition at least in the States. Again, IME, I think Kerosene does not get the respect say that gasoline does, but Kerosene can be dangerous if the fumes are confined or it gets warm enough to off-gas. I have seen it flash before. Of course, since you don't normally burn turps I don't know how it reacts. Let me get my matches out.... I have been considering your point about having fingerprints re-created from my bum. Sounds terribly painful, but the Tea Tree Oil we get here has never been such a strong distillate that it does that sort of damage, IME. I would have had a bum-ectomy to replace my finger tips a long time ago if it was that corrosive to skin! Conjures up strange images! I avoid Kero because it triggers migraines for me so I'll probably never get to put it to the test as a fungus preventive. I would be interested to know if others have tried Kerosene in this capacity. I don't know what is left in/on the wood after Kero evaporates. Paul in Normal > > > > Turps seems a lot more volatile than kero but one would think that mould > ... > err ... fungus would not have too pleasant a time of it whilst it > persisted. > One may consult Leviticus for mildew suppression but, supposing one can > readily get hold of an appropriate priest, the following of the > recommendations therein contained might be perceived as amounting to a bit > of overkill for a couple of planes. The smell of kerosene dissipates > fairly > quickly but its fungus-killing properties appear to persist long after the > smell has gone away. > > It was most educational to read the rather definitive replies regarding > fungus and its fellows. What a great forum this is! > > I'm at one with Peter Robinson in concluding that the tea tree oil > described > is a product of one or other of the Melaleuca varieties. It certainly > does > attack fungus and is professionally prescribed for the treatment of fungal > toenails. It's a pretty powerful distillate and a little bit goes a > loooooooong way. Best left in the medicine chest, in my view. Put it > this > way. One can wash one's hands in kerosene and the natural grease > (lipids?) > will shortly reappear. Wash one's hands in ti-tree oil and they'll be > taking skin off one's bum to furnish one with a new set of featureless > fingerprints. > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158014 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 06:16:19 Subject: Re: block planes Upon cleaning the blades I see that the larger of the 2 planes has a blade marked "Wards Master Quality." The other has a Sweetheart blade, a little heart with SW inside. Maybe Stanley made a run of these planes for Montgomery Ward at some time. That could account for the differences. On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:50 AM, James Thompson wrote: > My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded a couple of items > including two 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 > planes. > > Here is the problem: While these 2 planes appear to be identical at > first glance, one is a half inch shorter than the other, as the rear > is bobbed. But this is not a cobble job, it was made this way. And > the smaller one has a depression machined into each side for what I > would call thumb grips. I also notice that the blade adjusting screw > is a little longer on the smaller one. > > Both are marked Stanley on the moveable piece in front that closes the > mouth. I can see no other differences, even on close inspection. > > I read the pertinent 9 1/2 information on Blood and Gore, and the > larger of the 2 seems to match perfectly. I am left to assume that the > smaller one must be a Frankenplane. If you replaced the front > adjustable piece with a Stanley piece, this would be the result. > > What say ye? Is this what happened? > > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158015 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-10 09:36:56 Subject: RE: block planes Jim ponders the heritage of a recent acquisition: > My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded...two > 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 > planes. >...one is a half inch shorter than the other...And the > smaller one has...what I would call thumb grips. > Both are marked Stanley on the moveable piece. > I read the 9-1/2...Blood and Gore, and the larger of > the 2 seems to match perfectly. I am left to assume > that the smaller one must be a Frankenplane. > What say ye? Is this what happened? I dunno, Jim. As to the thumb grips, Patrick has this to say: "The model most often encountered is the one offered from ca. 1895 onward. It is distinguishable by the oval depressions milled into the exterior of the arched sides. These are known as the "Hand-y" grip." He also gives a length of 6" for the 9-1/2 and doesn't indicate that it changed over time. How long are your two examples? It may be unreliable, but if the larger isn't 6" long, I'd vote for it being the Frankenplane... Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland Where boating/fishing season is only 3 weeks away!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158016 ---- From: Ken Cutting Date: 2006-03-10 07:07:40 Subject: Re: I kept the palette. Now what? Jim, My advice (as it goes - worth what you're paying for it) is to sit on it a while... now I mean this figuratively of course... sitting on oak for a while will turn your bum purple. Red oak in particular can move a good bit in changing seasons - definitely prone to checking. That said, and I remember others talking about this while planing oak, it is a strong grained wood. This can work for you or against you. If the grain is tight, I'm still talking from the red oak side, it is practically indestructible and maybe an ever so slightly brittle - lets just say it's tough but it won't take whacks on end grain IME. If it is broad grained it is still tough but the grain does like to separate - comes in handy while hewing and spitting. The book definition says this (Encyclopedia of Wood Working) "medium movement in service. ... medium bending strength and stiffness, high shock resistance and crushing strength... ... good for domestic flooring... vehicle construction(?)" also says drying problems... The oak on metal would probably become problematic... Quercus alba/petraea being worse than Quercus rubra - in english - white is worse than red but I would say they are both highly corrosive... clean the dust and chips off every time you stop working... DAMHIKT. So, good stuff over all... keep it away from iron though... it's all brass with oak. My two (think there's two and a half there) cents, Ken Cutting Still working on that red oak bench top... pictures will be coming soon! Let's just say... no metal will stay in contact with this monster... wooden vices and screws. I plan on putting a birch tool holding strip on the back of the bench and birch doghole strip in front... which I'm hewing and resawing - Neander all the way! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158017 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 07:11:36 Subject: Re: block planes On Mar 10, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Rodgers Charles wrote: > Jim ponders the heritage of a recent acquisition: > >> My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded...two >> 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 >> planes. >> .. > I dunno, Jim. As to the thumb grips, Patrick has this > to say: > "The model most often encountered is the one offered > from ca. 1895 onward. It is distinguishable by the oval > depressions milled into the exterior of the arched sides. > These are known as the "Hand-y" grip." > He also gives a length of 6" for the 9-1/2 and doesn't > indicate that it changed over time. How long are your > two examples? > It may be unreliable, but if the larger isn't 6" long, > I'd vote for it being the Frankenplane... > The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the smaller one, the casting marks the same. I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and "Type 13." What's up with that? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158018 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-10 07:23:53 Subject: Re: Palette Wood At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple >or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance >between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I >can get some pictures tonight and post them. > >Roger Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158019 ---- From: Joseph Jerkins Date: 2006-03-10 07:32:42 Subject: RE: Palette Wood Roger, Very nice design and execution. Seeing this makes it hard to believe most pallets just end broken up and sent to the land fill. Joe San Francisco, CA -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Van Maren Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:24 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Palette Wood At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple >or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance >between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I >can get some pictures tonight and post them. > >Roger Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158020 ---- From: "Peterson, Samuel L." Date: 2006-03-10 10:03:49 Subject: RE: Palette Wood I once made a small barn(16'x12') out of pallets. This was back in the late 90's and I had access to a bunch of pallets that were all the same size and a lot of wooden fence panels(6'x8'). The pallets were nailed together in a 2x6 framework and the slats from the fence panels were used for the exterior. There was a loft that was used for the storage and drying of lumber, that could be reached by stairs inside or by "hay doors" on the outside. It was very functional, and sturdy. It also had a wooden lock, ala St. Roy, on it. We have since moved, and I drive by occasionally to see how it is doing. Good memories. Samuel L. Peterson Associate Director, MU Grants & Contracts Manager, UM Sponsored Programs -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Joseph Jerkins Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 9:33 AM To: 'Roger Van Maren'; oldtools@r... Subject: RE: [OldTools] Palette Wood Roger, Very nice design and execution. Seeing this makes it hard to believe most pallets just end broken up and sent to the land fill. Joe San Francisco, CA -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Roger Van Maren Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:24 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Palette Wood At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out of a pallet I >found a while back. It was mostly red oak but had 2 boards that look >like either soft maple or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance between the nail >holes on the pallet. I'll see if I can get some pictures tonight and >post them. > >Roger Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158021 ---- From: "David F. Lucier" Date: 2006-03-10 11:10:19 Subject: Re: block planes Jim, Ity may be a no.15 block. The 15 was 7" long but matched the 9 1/2 for features. David (crawling back under) On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:11:36 -0800 James Thompson writes: > > On Mar 10, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Rodgers Charles wrote: > > > Jim ponders the heritage of a recent acquisition: > > > >> My visit to the estate sale yesterday yielded...two > >> 9 1/2 block planes. At least I think they are 9 1/2 > >> planes. > >> .. > > I dunno, Jim. As to the thumb grips, Patrick has this > > to say: > > "The model most often encountered is the one offered > > from ca. 1895 onward. It is distinguishable by the oval > > depressions milled into the exterior of the arched sides. > > These are known as the "Hand-y" grip." > > He also gives a length of 6" for the 9-1/2 and doesn't > > indicate that it changed over time. How long are your > > two examples? > > It may be unreliable, but if the larger isn't 6" long, > > I'd vote for it being the Frankenplane... > > > > The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" > > long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the > smaller one, the casting marks the same. > > I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that > they > are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and > "Type 13." What's up with that? > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158022 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-10 08:09:34 Subject: Re: block planes > The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" > long. The longer is 7" long. Easy The short one is a 9 1/2 (don't go by Stanley stated sizes to within a 1/2", they could and did fudge it a lot). The 7" plane is another model. If they had knuckle caps they'd be #18 and #19. That kind of thing. Naturally, Stanley didn't use the same logical numbering for the toggle cap style blocks, so the number escapes me at the moment. The types are from John Walter's big book. I never saw a web reference for block plane types. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158023 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-10 11:16:53 Subject: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Afternoon folks Well, it's been four weeks of stay at home out of work with upper respiratory gunk infection. By now they've probably sold my desk and chair at work? Coming up for air, I received this Chapin-Stephens billhead this week. There is a bunch of retail short-hand on it that I seem to vaguely remember has something to do with payment terms, but can't pick it out of my chemical addled brain. Does anyone know the translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? Take a look at: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3616 Cheers Gary ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158024 ---- From: Tim Pendleton Date: 2006-03-10 11:35:53 Subject: Re: Palette Wood Very nice! The dovetails are outstanding. Are you a pins first or tails first dovetailer? Tim Warming up to a 72 degree F. day in NJ. (Global warming is finally paying off!) > > Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With the > exception of the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin > it all came from one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all > sorts of household projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I > figured the more specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible > it would be. I ended up with a modular approach. The trays and tool > holders on the one side just lift out so additional long tools or > different trays etc. can be added. The raised panel bottom and the 2 > small trays are made from the spalted mystery wood. The oak has a few > worm holes for character. The finish is a BLO, varnish & Japan drier > thinned with naphtha. After it dried I put on a coat of dark brown wax > that really brought out the grain. > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg > > Roger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158025 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-10 08:45:19 Subject: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_sp_ot/iditarod way to go! bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158026 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-10 09:04:40 Subject: Re: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" never mind. he's 4th, now, and this links to a "gourmet meal for iditarod mushers" article. sorry. bill On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Bill Kasper wrote: > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_sp_ot/iditarod ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158027 ---- From: Roger Van Maren Date: 2006-03-10 09:05:06 Subject: Re: Palette Wood At 08:35 AM 3/10/2006, Tim Pendleton wrote: >Very nice! The dovetails are outstanding. Are you a pins first or tails >first dovetailer? > >Tim Tails first. Funny you should mention them though. On this project I managed to mark and cut 2 sets of pins from the same set of tails. Whoops! In the third picture, if you look closely you can see one tail that's wider than the others. That's due to a patch that's been glued in to take up the space. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158028 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-10 12:23:53 Subject: The Road to Damascus Well the stuff is all packed. I was gonna do a preview shot or 3 like old Steve but time didn't permit. (I was also going to have everything ready to roll earlier in the week, but it's much more fun working till 11:00 PM the nite before departure.....) Gonna be a bit of breezy ride I think. Weather looks to be right fine done there tomorrow. One of the best days in years. See ya tomorrow! Tony Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158029 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-10 09:39:26 Subject: RE: Old Tool and advertising was (The Woodworking Channel) On 9 Mar 2006 at 19:18, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > > Looks like you guys are all too comfortable here... I don't know about > Ken, but I might begin charging for all the work... ;-)... I figured I'd have to pay people to look at it :-) Anything I have put up on my personal web site was just a labor of love. I go back to the early days of networking (where you had to route your own email - yuk) and I still view the net as primarily a way of sharing information that is not available anywhere else. Oh, I buy and sell tools on eBay from time to time and I appreciate being able to buy books on amazon and half.com, but I still think of all this networking as a means of access to resources. In truth, I hardly work on my own site any more. If something interesting happens among the BAGs, I update it. But most of the work these days is on the PAST site (pasttools.org) which I run as a result of complaining about the lack of a decent web site. I am in the midst of scanning and uploading 36 years of club history - tool swaps and meetings going back to 1968. It has been great fun learning about the early days of the club, as well as seeing what people looked like three decades ago. Also, there are pictures of tool collections that are just staggering. If you ever wonder where all the old tools have gone, I have photographic evidence that a small number of people seem to have acquired most of them. Unbelieveable stuff. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158030 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-10 12:50:40 Subject: Dovetail question Gentle List, Yesterday I was reviewing the Rob Cosman how to cut through dovetails video. When setting out the drawer side (the tail board) he set the marking gauge "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard." Although it's been a while since I've watched the Jim Kingshott how to cut lap dovetail video, IIRC he does the same thing. Unfortunately, neither Cosman nor Kingshott explain why this is done, nor does either indicate how much is "just a little bit less." (My long- suffering wife just rolls her eyes and remarks, "Honey, don't yell at the TV, I don't think they can hear you.") Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little bit less"? As always, I appreciate your help. Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158031 ---- From: "Jim Esten" Date: 2006-03-10 11:51:34 Subject: Kingshott book received! The mythical beast arrived in yesterday's post! Quite minty condition too which was a bonus I didn't necessarily expect. I will say that since I've got a number of books on the topic, that this one doesn't particularly stand out for me.. others' mileage may certainly vary ... consider it the first item in my annual stash of possible Galootclaus gifts for the next one!! cheers all, Jim E #2 in somewhat springlike Wisconsin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158032 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-10 12:54:35 Subject: RE: The Road to Damascus Tony observes tomorrow's weather for the PATINA Spring Sale and Auction in Damascus, Maryland: > Gonna be a bit of breezy ride I think. > Weather looks to be right fine done there tomorrow. > One of the best days in years. > See ya tomorrow! > Tony A little windy today with winds >20 mph. Gale warning and small craft advisory on the Chesapeake, but tomorrow looks like it's gonna be a wonderful pre-spring day. Partly cloudy, morning low of about 50F and afternoon high near 65F, winds ESE 5-10 mph, chance of precip 20%, sunrise at 6:26AM. Should bring out the crowds. The worst thing is the "near critical fire danger" in the region due to winds and continued low humidity (<30%). Yeah, I know that's about as dry as a wet sponge in Happy Camp, but around here it's almost a drought. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158033 ---- From: kjworz@c... Date: 2006-03-10 17:58:58 Subject: Re: The Road to Damascus It's gonna be nice because I'm not going this year :( -- -Chris Schwartz Silver Spring, MD -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Anthony Seo > Well the stuff is all packed. I was gonna do a preview shot or 3 > like old Steve but time didn't permit. (I was also going to have > everything ready to roll earlier in the week, but it's much more fun > working till 11:00 PM the nite before departure.....) > > Gonna be a bit of breezy ride I think. > > Weather looks to be right fine done there tomorrow. One of the best > days in years. > > See ya tomorrow! > > Tony > > > Olde River Hard Goods > 350 West Catawissa Street > Nesquehoning PA 18240 > 570-669-9421 > The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! > http://www.oldetoolshop.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158034 ---- From: "Robert Weber" Date: 2006-03-10 12:02:57 Subject: RE: Dovetail question Sarge asks: Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little bit less"? Kirby promotes the same procedure in his Complete Dovetail book. His explanation concerns the fitting of drawers. He says to cut the pieces to the correct length to fit the drawer. Then, after joining the pieces via dovetail, you plane the sides flush with the ends of the pins. That sets the width of the drawer exactly. And a little bit is between 1/32" and 1/16". I would imagine that when the outside dimension of the piece is less important, I would cut the pins and tails a bit proud and plane them down to the sides. Less stock removal that way. Hope I answered your question. Rob in Peoria 1960 Anniversary Shopsmith Mk V Brownie www.jlatech.com/rob/Woodworking/Knowledge%20Base.htm Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158035 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-10 10:20:04 Subject: Re: Dovetail question John asked: > Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit > less than > the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little > bit less"? Hi All, I set the gauge about 1/64" or less on the pin board to allow the sides to be planed to the ends of the pins. I build the drawers for a snug/tight fit. For me it is easier to plane the sides to fit, thereby arriving at the ends of the pins than shaving end grain pins on four corners. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158036 ---- From: Peter Hahn Date: 2006-03-10 13:43:37 Subject: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a woodworking friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. He has been making arts and crafts style furniture for his house and been using primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has been collecting stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the transition, and wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had managed to acquire a type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 garage-sale sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that much. It did have an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened using the scary sharp system (my first time - usually I use water stones). Tuned up, it did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem was the wood. Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, the cocobolo was pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The other wood I tried to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each stripe was grain running in a different direction (up or down). Stripes in one direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in the other direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the scary sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood (and burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why furniture makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? Peter Hahn Syracuse NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158037 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-10 13:55:37 Subject: Re: Kingshott book received! Jim Esten wrote: >The mythical beast arrived in yesterday's post! Quite minty condition >too which was a bonus I didn't necessarily expect. I will say that >since I've got a number of books on the topic, that this one doesn't >particularly stand out for me.. others' mileage may certainly vary ... This is the "Making and Modifying..." book, right? I seem to recall that during a discussion of this book some time back someone cited an interview with Kingshott in which he (JK) had complained that he felt the book had been rather badly edited after it was out of his hands and, in particular, a lot of material had been omitted. Now, I have a copy of the book --and wouldn't part with it for the world-- but, as much a fan as I am of JK, I have to say that this book has always had that sort of feel to it. OTOH, if I had to pick one book by JK, it would be his _A Woodworker's Guide to Joints_. (That, of course, is only after I already had copies of all his videos...) N ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158038 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-10 11:14:48 Subject: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Assembled Galoots, On Saturday, I was the fortunate attendee at the first ever travisher making class at John Wilson's Home Shop in Charlotte, Mi. This is the third or fourth tool making class I've been to with Gil as the instructor and I've enjoyed them all immensely. It's been said here before, but if you get the chance to take a woodworking or toolmaking class, take advantage of it. Ours is a mostly solitary hobby so it's a great opportunity to learn and share ideas with fellow tool enthusiasts. This was the first time that Gil has taught this particular subject so it was a learning process for all, but I must say that it succeeded spectacularly. We started the morning making the blade. Gill supplied O1 stock that had been cut in the shape of the blade. We proceeded to grind the bevel then bend the stock to the circular shape of the sole of the travisher using hardwood blocks and a vise for a press. As I remember, the blade had a 3 1/2" radius. We then heated and bent the tangs to 90 degrees (more or less) to a horizontal tangent at the center of the blade. We finished the initial metal work by hardening and tempering the blade. The little time left in the morning was spent doing layout on the hard maple stock of the travisher. The wood work was very similar to making a spokeshave. After lunch, we chiseled out the escapement, then made the mortises for the tangs. Gil used an interesting technique to do this. A hole was first drilled in the stock and then we got to use fire again to heat a square rod and burn a square hole by pressing the heated rod through the hole. We then fit the blade to the stock and cut out outline of the sole. The profile of the sole was then refined by sanding to match the curve of the blade exactly. The blade is held in the stock by set screws, so at this point the hole for the set screws were drilled and tapped. Finally, the top and edges of the stock were cut out for the desired shape. The rest of the day was spent sharpening and honing the blade and cleaning up the stock of the travisher using files and rasps. I had a little bit of cleaning up to do at home before finishing, but left the class with a working travisher. I am pleased with the way my travisher turned out. It looks good and cuts really well in my opinion. A big thanks to John Wilson for hosting the class, Gil Chesbro for sharing his knowledge and expertise with us and his patience for working through the problems, and also to Gil's lovely assistant Wes Groot for providing an extra hand and knowledgable opinion. Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi. where it looks like spring could be just around the corner. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158039 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-10 11:27:48 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods I'm sure many of the galoots will have more detailed answers but two things that have gotten me through tough times are hign angle planes and scrapers. A plane with a bed of 50 ish degrees will reduce tearout in these woods although it will be harder to push. Also a bevel up plane (image a really big block plane) will allow you to sharpen the blade to different angles to adjust this also (since the plane is bevel up the sharpening angle of the blade also effects the over cutting angle). Stanley made a bevel up jack plane or Lee Valley makes a new one. Also HNT Gordon and Steve Knight both make woodies with higher beds. However the cheapest way to handle this is a scraper. Derek could probably give you even more help since he works mainly in tough aussie timbers. Hope this helps, Joel McCarty --- Peter Hahn wrote: > I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a > woodworking > friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. > He has been > making arts and crafts style furniture for his house > and been using > primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has > been collecting > stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the > transition, and > wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had > managed to acquire a > type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 > garage-sale > sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that > much. It did have > an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened > using the scary sharp > system (my first time - usually I use water stones). > Tuned up, it > did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem > was the wood. > Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, > the cocobolo was > pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The > other wood I > tried to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each > stripe was grain > running in a different direction (up or down). > Stripes in one > direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in > the other > direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using > the scary > sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the > stripy wood (and > burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate > why furniture > makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess > the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to > use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to > mahogany? > > Peter Hahn > Syracuse NY > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests > of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss > the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and > restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158040 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-10 13:29:52 Subject: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Millrat asked: > >I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that they >are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and >"Type 13." What's up with that? > The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. He devloped type studies for more than just the benchplanes. There are the blockplanes, combination planes, router planes, and others not coming to mind right now. We Galoots owe a lot of credit to Roger for his years of research. Everytime I sit down to do some work on DATAMP and lift up the weighty stack of notes, I just shake my head and wonder how he did it, and did it so well. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158041 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-10 11:31:25 Subject: Re: Palette Wood Roger, Beautiful tote! Good-looking dovetails, and I really like how the arc of the handle echoes the grain pattern in the wood. Very well executed. Best Regards, Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158042 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-10 13:37:47 Subject: Re: block planes Jim is trying to identify his new block planes: >The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 3/8" >long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the >smaller one, the casting marks the same. Jim, Stanley DID make a #15 block plane, which was almost the same as a # 9 1/2. I found out I had one when I put two "identical" planes side by side and they weren't. Walt C Out in the shop with 1/4" of snow melt running over the floor! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158043 ---- From: "Avrum Silverman" Date: 2006-03-10 19:50:07 Subject: RE: ABS Pipe for Carving Mallets Reference the following post regarding ABS pipe for caring mallets. From: Shine, Stephen C (Steve), ALABS Subject: [OldTools] A footnote on making carving mallets ("Millrat Specials") Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:18 PM While making my 3rd batch of Jim's carving mallets (thanks again for the tutorials, Jim), I discovered I'd inadvertently turned the mallet heads too small for the job as the 2" ABS plastic slid onto the heads very easily when I heated the PVC. I initially attributed this to me incorrectly measuring the ID of the pipe, perhaps due to the fact............snip, snip I just slid one of the oversized plastic tubes off my mallet, and just for yucks tried to stick the mallet into another piece of plastic from the very same 10' section of pipe. The head is too large to go in w/o heating the plastic, and it feels like it'll be a darn tight fit (i.e., perfect). This leads me to believe that the inner diameter of a plastic pipe can vary radically, and it's best to take a different measure for each mallet. End of snip. This brings to light one of the first lessons I learned when I started my career as a process-project engineer designing and building what ever came along like--nuclear powered submarines, power plants and chemical plants etc. First there is a big difference between pipe and tube and second more important the OD of the pipe is fixed for each pipe size and the ID varies according to the pipe wall thickness. When the piping standards were first set up at the turn of the century that is the 20th not the 21st, pipe was joined together using threaded couplings etc. BY FIXING THE OD THIS INSURED THAT WHEN THREADED THE PIPE WOULD SCREW INTO THE FITTING. Couldn't be done if the ID was controlled. The wall thickness varies depending upon the pressure-temperature rating of the pipe. The same philosophy holds true today with plastic pipe. The OD is contolled so that cemented socket fittings can be used. A little bit of history that I was able to dredge up from my way back machine. When in the BOG if you guys ever venture in; PVC Drain and Vent pipe is a hell of lot different from schedule 40 and 80 pipe. They may have the same OD but the Id's will vary. Plan accordingly. Also the grey PVC stuff sold for electrical conduit is different from the white PVC piping sold for plumbing. End of sermon time to get outside and start raking the lawn and picking up all the winter damage etc. Avrum Silverman Wellesley,Ma ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158044 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-10 12:58:28 Subject: RE: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods There is also an excellent review of plane posted by Derek Cohen. He used the planes on various very hard woods from Australia. The reviews are also downloadable as PDF file and you can read at your leisure. http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/index.asp Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com >Made me appreciate why furniture makers of old > like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how do > people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand > tools - how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? > > Peter Hahn > Syracuse NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158045 ---- From: sgt42rhr@a... Date: 2006-03-10 14:54:07 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Steve, Thanks for this information. I know about (and have located) type studies of Stanley bench (and Bedrock) planes. Where can I find the other type studies you refer to below? Thank you so much. Cheers, John -----Original Message----- From: Steve Reynolds The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. He devloped type studies for more than just the benchplanes. There are the blockplanes, combination planes, router planes, and others not coming to mind right now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158046 ---- From: "David F. Lucier" Date: 2006-03-10 14:58:09 Subject: Re: block planes Jim, I picked one up yesterday with some other planes and had the same experience. The one I bought has a sweetheart blade and no id on the body. I'm now wondering how uncommon it is. David On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:37:47 -0600 "Walt Cheever" writes: > Jim is trying to identify his new block planes: > > >The shorter of the 2, which I believe is indeed a Stanley, is 6 > 3/8" > >long. The longer is 7" long. Again, it is almost identical to the > >smaller one, the casting marks the same. > > Jim, > > Stanley DID make a #15 block plane, which was almost the same as a > # 9 1/2. > I found out I had one when I put two "identical" planes side by side > and > they weren't. > > Walt C > Out in the shop with 1/4" of snow melt running over the floor! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, > usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158047 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-10 11:59:34 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes On Mar 10, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Steve Reynolds wrote: > Millrat asked: >> >> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that they >> are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" and >> "Type 13." What's up with that? >> > > > The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger > Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. He devloped type studies for more than just > the benchplanes. There are the blockplanes, combination planes, > router planes, and others not coming to mind right now. We Galoots > owe a lot of credit to Roger for his years of research. Everytime I > sit down to do some work on DATAMP and lift up the weighty stack of > notes, I just shake my head and wonder how he did it, and did it so > well. > > Regards, > Steve Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look into this? :>) Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158048 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-10 15:01:46 Subject: RE: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods I've been playing with so-called back bevels on planes to get a higher effective cutting angle, and it works well for reducing tearout (for me on various figured domestic and exotic hardwoods, but YMMV). I just got a call that the high-angle frog for my LN4.5 came in today. I don't actually expect to get different performance from it vs using a back-bevel, but I wanted to try. I can't imagine that bevel up or down makes any difference if the cutting angle is the same, although one might be less likely to chatter. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Joel Mccarty > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:28 PM > To: Peter Hahn; oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods > > I'm sure many of the galoots will have more detailed answers > but two things that have gotten me through tough times are > hign angle planes and scrapers. > > A plane with a bed of 50 ish degrees will reduce tearout in > these woods although it will be harder to push. Also a bevel > up plane (image a really big block > plane) will allow you to sharpen the blade to different > angles to adjust this also (since the plane is bevel up the > sharpening angle of the blade also effects the over cutting angle). > > Stanley made a bevel up jack plane or Lee Valley makes a new > one. Also HNT Gordon and Steve Knight both make woodies with > higher beds. > > However the cheapest way to handle this is a scraper. > > Derek could probably give you even more help since he works > mainly in tough aussie timbers. > > Hope this helps, > > Joel McCarty > > --- Peter Hahn wrote: > > > I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a woodworking > > friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. > > He has been > > making arts and crafts style furniture for his house and been using > > primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has been collecting > > stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the transition, and > > wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had managed to acquire a > > type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 garage-sale > > sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that much. > It did have > > an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened using the > scary sharp > > system (my first time - usually I use water stones). > > Tuned up, it > > did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem > > was the wood. > > Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, the > cocobolo was > > pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The other > wood I tried > > to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each stripe was grain > running in a > > different direction (up or down). > > Stripes in one > > direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in the other > > direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the scary > > sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood (and > > burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why > furniture makers > > of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how do > > people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand > tools - how > > did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? > > > > Peter Hahn > > Syracuse NY > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, > > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > > > To read the FAQ: > > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > > > OldTools archive: > > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > > > OldTools@r... > > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand > tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the > history, usage, value, location, availability, > collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, > especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158049 ---- From: Jim Crammond Date: 2006-03-10 12:05:07 Subject: re: Gil Chesbro's Travisher Making Class Multitude of Galoots "Sorry for the waste of bandwidth," he said, red-faced, "pass the spittoon." Jim snip of redundant material __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158050 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-10 13:41:20 Subject: camphor wood Greetings All, I just stumbled on a web page indicating that the camphor tree, source of the camphor wood that I can't seem to find in the local specialty lumber stores because of its rarity, is considered a pest in Florida and is being eradicated. And ground into mulch!!!!!! http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/camphor.html Can't we stop this carnage? Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158051 ---- From: "L.A. Root" Date: 2006-03-10 16:16:44 Subject: Re: RE: ABS Pipe for Carving Mallets Click -- the light went on. Thank you Avrum, your comment illuminates something I'd never really understood. Very respectfully Larry Avrum Silverman wrote: > [snip]When the piping standards were first set up at the turn of the > century that is the 20th not the 21st, pipe was joined together using > threaded couplings etc. BY FIXING THE OD THIS INSURED THAT WHEN > THREADED THE PIPE WOULD SCREW INTO THE FITTING. Couldn't be done if > the ID was controlled. The wall thickness varies depending upon the > pressure-temperature rating of the pipe. [snip] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158052 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-10 15:17:54 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes >> Millrat asked: >>> >>> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that >>> they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, i.e., "Type 4" >>> and "Type 13." What's up with that? >>> >> >> >> The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger >> Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. > >Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look into this? We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or to the reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. Only one of Smith's volumes is available new, the other and the Guide are available used but prices are climbing. I'm not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked for them. The old plane typing page developed by Jay Sutherland had some of the information embedded in it. I think Tom Price or someone recently dug it up from the dead. I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to target the best models. But when they merely detail differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. YMMV. Regards, Steve - desperate to get on the road to Damascus Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158053 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-10 16:46:17 Subject: Essential Oils Be careful with adding essential oils to inhibit mold. I used to work at a spice company and I kept my Oil of Clove eyedropper in a plastic pencil holder. Well after a couple weeks the oil had eaten through the holder. I don't know if it is just that kind of plastic or other things too. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158054 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-10 13:51:35 Subject: FS: Parts or Whole? Hi Galoots I need your advice. In case you haven't guessed yet, being from Happy Camp, I don't get out much. It's way over an hour to the nearest highway. Gas prices and upkeep on old cars, well, I stay home a lot. Anyway, I don't see tool meets or prices in persona, only ebay stuff really and pictures and descriptions being so variable, it hard to figure for me. . Well, I got myself in a skosh of trouble here. These guys were making these new way cool guitar necks people never made before. Or at least I hadn't ever seen the pattern. ......... and my bud Will was over talking gear..... One thing led to another and I've got one coming, now just have to pay for it. So, I've got a couple of Stanley planes. I've had these some years. They would represent, in my mind, about the best using planes of anything we ever made as a species, available for anything like a reasonable price. Some would rightly argue the type 11's with low knobs, their cousins. And I like the -looks- of the low knobs better myself. But for long day comfort, I'll take a high knob to grab hold of. A #4, type 15 and a #5. type 14. They are both sweetheart era. Both still have partial or better stickers on the totes. The #4 tote was broken clean when I got it and can be seen getting glued in my little tote repair tut here http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/sGrandstaff/tote.htm Yeah, this is the very tote from the old story posted long ago. The knobs have minor dents, I gave them a decent polish on the high quality rosewood you can hardly get anymore. The beds are 80-90% japan left, no problems, mostly original patina, none but the minorest of pitts, clean n waxed. Every screw and washer in place and easy turning. Frogs complete, clean n waxed with no problems at all either. Long blades with most original meat and no pitting near the edge. Not overcleaned but clean enough. Lever caps proper Stanley embossed with straight keyhole pattern, no chips. As good as it gets for users. A new plane user would flat be in heaven to know these planes. The question I'd like advice on, is it still more worthwhile to strip them back down for parts? Is advertizing so effective that people would rather buy sloppy new factory work in a store plugged by commercials everyday, or expensive bragging rights bronze they probably don't really need, over the best Stanley ever made (imo), so much so, that it's still better to gut a terriffic plane and scatter it to the wind? yours, Scott -- *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158055 ---- From: "Sanford Moss" Date: 2006-03-10 16:56:11 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Listmom Steve wrote (sans snippage): >We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or to the >reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. Only one of Smith's >volumes is available new, the other and the Guide are available used but >prices are climbing. I'm not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked >for them. >I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to target the best models. But when they merely detail differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. A rare quibble or two with Steve's comments: The type studies for Stanley block planes do not appear in Roger Smith's Ptampia volumes (I don't think). Rather, they are most accessibly available in Walters 1996 "Antique & Collectible Stanley Tools." The authors of these type studies (there are two of them--9 1/2 Family of block planes, and Stanley No. 18 & 19 block planes) are Jack Schoelhamer & John Wells for the former, and Jack Schoelhamer & Bob Kaune for the latter. Unlike Steve, I find the block plane type studies to be quite substantial and detailed works that have helped me immeasureably in puzzling out block planes. But, my interests and needs are surely different from Steve's. As for online resources, I concur that they may not exist. But having a paper library is always a boon for the more recent, copyright-protected stuff. Unless, of course, you want to wait around for the rights to expire! Best, Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158056 ---- From: "Wiktor A. Kuc" Date: 2006-03-10 15:13:11 Subject: RE: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes James and All, I do have John Walter's Guide to Stanley as well as Smith's PTAMPIA volumes and will be able to look up for you but I need good pictures of the whole planes as well as detailed pictures of parts that you identify as different. No, I will not scan the books and pout it on line... No way. Wiktor A. Kuc Albuquerque, NM 505-323-8482 www.OldToolsShop.com www.wkFineTools.com > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Steve Reynolds > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:18 PM > To: James Thompson > Cc: oldtools > Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes > > >> Millrat asked: > >>> > >>> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that > >>> they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, > i.e., "Type 4" > >>> and "Type 13." What's up with that? > >>> > >> > >> > >> The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly > done by Roger > >> Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. > > > > >Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look > into this? > > > > We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or > to the reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. > Only one of Smith's volumes is available new, the other and > the Guide are available used but prices are climbing. I'm > not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked for them. > The old plane typing page developed by Jay Sutherland had > some of the information embedded in it. I think Tom Price > or someone recently dug it up from the dead. > > I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like > them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements > were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to > target the best models. But when they merely detail > differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. > The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I > remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. YMMV. > > Regards, > Steve - desperate to get on the road to Damascus > > > Regards, > Steve > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158057 ---- From: Kyle Accardi Date: 2006-03-10 15:06:34 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes Sanford Moss wrote: > The type studies for Stanley block planes do not appear in Roger Smith's > Ptampia volumes (I don't think). Rather, they are most accessibly > available in Walters 1996 "Antique & Collectible Stanley Tools." Which is to say: "Not very". I'd love to own/read this book, but I'll probably find a Gutenberg Bible first (which is online, BTW). Perhaps this will be the year of the 2006 A&CST. > As for online resources, I concur that they may not exist. But having a > paper library is always a boon for the more recent, copyright-protected > stuff. Unless, of course, you want to wait around for the rights to > expire! But since it's so rare (expensive, really) a book, the info and research stand to become lost: at least those who can't cough up $300+ for a copy. Cheers, Kyle Accardi in snowy Banks, Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158058 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-10 16:05:30 Subject: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/Shabby-Ooak-Hand-Painted-Chic-Wooden- Plane_W0QQitemZ6261280481QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158059 ---- From: Dave Strommen Date: 2006-03-10 18:20:22 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes I do have Jay Sutherland's old plane dating pages and router type study pages that I resurrected and can be used online here: http://homepage.mac.com/michianaptp/dastrom2/oldtools/jayspages/ Some of the links may not be up to date but it is a good reference. I think Josh? at hyperkitten.com resurrected them also. Dave Strommen Northern Indiana On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Wiktor A. Kuc wrote: > James and All, > > I do have John Walter's Guide to Stanley as well as Smith's > PTAMPIA volumes and will be able to look up for you but I > need good pictures of the whole planes as well as detailed > pictures of parts that you identify as different. > > No, I will not scan the books and pout it on line... > > No way. > > >>>> Millrat asked: >>>>> >>>>> I was looking on ebay for info on these planes and I notice that >>>>> they are listed as having "Types" like bench planes, >> i.e., "Type 4" >>>>> and "Type 13." What's up with that? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly >> done by Roger >>>> Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. >> >>> >>> Is this work acessable on the web? Can we mere mortals look >> into this? >> >> >> >> We mere mortals refer directly to Smith's PTAMPIA volumes, or >> to the reprinted studies in John Walter's Guide to Stanley. >> Only one of Smith's volumes is available new, the other and >> the Guide are available used but prices are climbing. I'm >> not aware of online sources, but I haven't looked for them. >> The old plane typing page developed by Jay Sutherland had >> some of the information embedded in it. I think Tom Price >> or someone recently dug it up from the dead. >> >> I have to admit to not being much on type studies. I like >> them to the extent that you can learn when the improvements >> were added, and when quality suffered. That allows one to >> target the best models. But when they merely detail >> differences in style that leaves me cold and disinterested. >> The benchplane study has some real substance to it, but I >> remember the blockplane one as being a lot of style changes. YMMV. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158060 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-10 15:52:46 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods Peter Hahn wrote: > Each stripe was grain running in a different direction (up or down). > Stripes in one direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in > the other direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the > scary sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood > (and burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why furniture > makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? I'll agree that the high angle will help, but also beware the cocobolo is really hard on the blade. Plan on doing lots of sharpening. Not sure if its the hardness of the wood, or others have said high levels of silica in the wood. -- Kirk Eppler Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158061 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-10 15:59:05 Subject: Re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Blake Ashley wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/Shabby-Ooak-Hand-Painted-Chic-Wooden- >Plane_W0QQitemZ6261280481QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >- > > > From the description: (unfortunately you can't see the pink text without HTML) I am sure this is every man’s nightmare to find his tools painted with flowers. / me again if it goes for minimum, we could try to salvage it. Take up a collection to buy this cr@@, or hope it doesn;t sell, then try and lowball her. Hope she can learn to realize there is no market, and give this up, and go back to a life of painting garden gnomes. Oh crud, she's got 4 of them out there, one even says Every man's nightmare ~ Tools with painted roses! near the thumbnail. -- Kirk Eppler feeling nauseous now, a new low has been reached. Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158062 ---- From: mimulus@p... Date: 2006-03-10 16:00:57 Subject: re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Now that some of your vision has returned (thanks alot, Blake), here's a less genteel old-tool scenario. I was using google images to look at spoke shaves, and came up with this eyeball balm: http://homepage.mac.com/laddie/fire_by_friction.html Nothing there you'ld find in an olde tea room. cur ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158063 ---- From: Greg Tucker Date: 2006-03-10 20:19:32 Subject: Re: FS: Parts or Whole? On 10 Mar, 2006, at 4:51 PM, scott grandstaff wrote: > Hi Galoots > I need your advice. > > The question I'd like advice on, is it still more worthwhile to > strip them back down for parts? > Is advertizing so effective that people would rather buy sloppy new > factory work in a store plugged by commercials everyday, or expensive > bragging rights bronze they probably don't really need, over the best > Stanley ever made (imo), so much so, that it's still better to gut a > terriffic plane and scatter it to the wind? yours, Scott > Hi all - My two cents, Scott? Depends on what you mean by "worthwhile," right? I expect you could realize a greater financial return by parting these tools out; but you addressed the greater question in the previous paragraph when you wrote: " A #4, type 15 and a #5. type 14. They are both sweetheart era. As good as it gets for users. A new plane user would flat be in heaven to know these planes." Answered your own question there, I believe. Regards, Greg T. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158064 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-10 21:28:08 Subject: Stamp Enhancement I've recently acquired three boxwood spokeshaves. The manufacturer's names are quite small and hard to read, even with a magnifier. Are there any tricks to enhancing the type to make it easier to read? I recently saw a plane on eBay where the seller went over the type with a white powder or chalk so the type showed up well in photographs, but I've tried baking soda and flour to no avail. Oh mighty porch, please share your wisdom. Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158065 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-10 20:44:43 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary asks - > Coming up for air, I received this Chapin-Stephens billhead this > week. There is a bunch of retail short-hand on it that I seem to > vaguely remember has something to do with payment terms, but can't > pick it out of my chemical addled brain. Does anyone know the > translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? Well, yeah. As a former senior manager for a company that supplied the retail market, these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common even today (no, I don't understand the point of it). So 60/10/10/10 is 60% off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. If you do the math they all work out (within a penny or two). Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 = $2.50 >From my experience stuff like 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. I don't know about these extremely large discount examples. Perhaps the "list" prices were actually suggested retail. Then it would make sense. Dennis Heyza Macomb, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158066 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-10 22:09:22 Subject: Spokeshave Makers After closer examination, and a bit of wine, I managed to nail down a few letters on my boxwood spokeshaves. A little more digging on the net helped fill in the missing letters. Two of them are Marples/Hibernia Works shaves. One has a shamrock. I checked the archives and saw a bit of background on this company, but the thread came up short. I think it was an old thread. Does anyone have more information on this brand regarding company history and possible timeframes? Jim Saint John, New Brunswick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158067 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-03-10 20:39:26 Subject: Re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Hey it still looks functional. Real rough, tough, galoots don't mind planing with roses. Just make sure your shop apron doesn't clash. John Lederer Blake Ashley wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/Shabby-Ooak-Hand-Painted-Chic-Wooden- > Plane_W0QQitemZ6261280481QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158068 ---- From: Peter B Date: 2006-03-11 14:08:24 Subject: Re: My Eyes!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Hi All, A suggestion to all galoots whose wives are 'reluctant', shall we say, when it comes to you using/collecting/accumulating/hoarding all things rusty.........let her use her decorator skills and 'fancy' up the workshop. Yep, nice floral cottage curtains to match the rose painted planes, pastel coloured shop apron/overalls/coveralls............. Take her rust hunting and she may find that elusive $5.00 No.1.........and then ask what coloured daisys you want painted on it !!!! :-D Peter B, in Australia (and all comment were in jest!!!) John Lederer wrote: > Hey it still looks functional. Real rough, tough, galoots don't mind > planing with roses. Just make sure your shop apron doesn't clash. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158069 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-03-10 22:35:48 Subject: Re: boiling oil Friends I never cease to be perplexed and confused over why one would add a solvent to oil. What could it possibly add to the situation to improve the working properties of the oil? No I won't ask that I'll just state that it serves only to make the situation more unpleasant dangerous and toxic. In my quest to prolong my woodworking career and avocation and to not have a very short old age connected to an oxygen tank I avoid every toxic fume I can! I do however use a lot of linseed oil. All the best, Ken I do love the smell of linseed right before dawn. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158070 ---- From: Ken Pendergrass Date: 2006-03-10 22:49:40 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods The preferred way of dealing with difficult wood is a plane with a toothing blade. Not a veneering scraper type plane with the blade set at about 90 degrees but a bench or block plane with a toothing blade. I also get good results from quality Japanese planes with blue paper steel blades or super blue steel and a bed angle of 42 degrees. But also technique is involved one may have to plane this few inches with the plane skewed to just the right angle and then reverse direction 180 degrees for the next 3" while avoiding some area or other altogether with the plane using only a scraper plane or card scraper there. Lee Valley makes toothed blades for many of their planes which is a good point of reference because they tune theirs in the correct traditional way. Best regards Ken Peter Hahn wrote: > I visited family in Guatemala a few weeks ago, and a woodworking > friend was ready to start the switch to hand-tools. He has been > making arts and crafts style furniture for his house and been using > primary electron-devouring equipment. But he has been collecting > stuff (on trips back to the US I guess) to make the transition, and > wanted some help tuning up his planes. He had managed to acquire a > type 11 5C in great condition. It still had the $12 garage-sale > sticker on it, but he assured me he didnt pay that much. It did have > an English Stanley era blade which we sharpened using the scary sharp > system (my first time - usually I use water stones). Tuned up, it > did beautifully - nice curly shavings. The problem was the wood. > Although the planks of mahogany behaved wonderfully, the cocobolo was > pretty tough. He had lots of the cocobolo, too. The other wood I > tried to plane was gorgeous but striped. Each stripe was grain > running in a different direction (up or down). Stripes in one > direction would be glassy smooth, but the stripes in the other > direction would be pure tearout. We ended up using the scary > sharpening system on both the cocobolo and the stripy wood (and > burning a bunch of electrons). Made me appreciate why furniture > makers of old like the mahogany so much. I guess the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? Or did they stick to mahogany? > > Peter Hahn > Syracuse NY > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158071 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-10 23:03:23 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: [OldTools] block planes On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Sanford Moss wrote: > > > The type studies for Stanley block planes do not appear in Roger > Smith's Ptampia volumes (I don't think). Rather, they are most > accessibly available in Walters 1996 "Antique & Collectible Stanley > Tools." The authors of these type studies (there are two of them--9 > 1/2 Family of block planes, and Stanley No. 18 & 19 block planes) are > Jack Schoelhamer & John Wells for the former, and Jack Schoelhamer & > Bob Kaune for the latter. > > Thanks for the correction, Sandy. It is right to give credit where it is due. I still have my PTAMPIAs, but sold my Walter Guide a year ago and don't have ready access to one anymore. Yeah, I know. But I was so SURE he was about to issue a new edition and I wanted to cash in on the old one. SSSIIIIGGGHHHHHHH. I'll have to listen to Tom call me a dumb@$$ for two hours tomorrow morning on the ride to Damascus. He thinks it is the stupidest thing I've ever done and this reairing of it will renew his derisive attitude towards my grubby move. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158072 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 00:15:23 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. Cheers Gary On Mar 10, 2006, at 11:44 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Gary asks - > >> Coming up for air, I received this Chapin-Stephens billhead this >> week. There is a bunch of retail short-hand on it that I seem to >> vaguely remember has something to do with payment terms, but can't >> pick it out of my chemical addled brain. Does anyone know the >> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? > > Well, yeah. As a former senior manager for a company that supplied the > retail market, these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are > common > even today (no, I don't understand the point of it). So 60/10/10/10 > is 60% > off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. > If you do > the math they all work out (within a penny or two). > > Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 > Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 > Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 = > $2.50 > > From my experience stuff like 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. > I don't > know about these extremely large discount examples. Perhaps the "list" > prices were actually suggested retail. Then it would make sense. > > Dennis Heyza > Macomb, Michigan > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158073 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 00:26:04 Subject: Re: Spokeshave Makers Jim First take a look at the Marples company history page: http://www.marples.co.uk/page2.html then... the shamrock was a Marples trademark for many years. As for enhancing weak marks, I've scanned marks in grayscale, reversed the image, sharpened and examined it zoomed in. Sometimes it works. Cheers Gary On Mar 10, 2006, at 9:09 PM, Jim McVicar wrote: > > After closer examination, and a bit of wine, I managed to nail down > a few > letters on my boxwood spokeshaves. A little more digging on the net > helped > fill in the missing letters. Two of them are Marples/Hibernia Works > shaves. > One has a shamrock. > > I checked the archives and saw a bit of background on this company, > but the > thread came up short. I think it was an old thread. Does anyone > have more > information on this brand regarding company history and possible > timeframes? > > Jim > Saint John, New Brunswick > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158074 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 00:31:35 Subject: Robert Sorby company history And lest I forget... here is the web page for Robert Sorby.... http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/company_info.htm Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158075 ---- From: John Lederer Date: 2006-03-10 23:46:20 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods The practice of an old timer gunsmith for cocobolo and a couple of other tropical woods was simple: treat it like metal. Files, hacksaws, etc. Worked reasonably well for the small items (pistol grips, forends, grip caps, butt plates) that he might use these woods for. John Lederer Peter Hahn wrote: > I guess the question is how do people deal with the exotic > hardwoods who want to use hand tools - how did the old guys do it? > Or did they stick to mahogany? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158076 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 15:32:42 Subject: Re: Dovetail question John M. Johnston wrote: > Yesterday I was reviewing the Rob Cosman how to cut through dovetails video. > When setting out the drawer side (the tail board) he set the marking gauge > "just a little bit less than the thickness of the tailboard." Although it's > been a while since I've watched the Jim Kingshott how to cut lap dovetail > video, IIRC he does the same thing. Unfortunately, neither Cosman nor Kingshott > explain why this is done, nor does either indicate how much is "just a > little bit less." (snip) > Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit less than > the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a little bit less"? I think I may have something of a back-to-front answer to John's query. I was taught to gauge the bottom lines of through dovetails and pins by setting the gauge over the thickness of the adjoining piece at the end to be joined. This should result in the tails and pins being, in effect, proud of the work by one half of the thickness of the gauge pin if the point is concentric with the pin's section and if one is good enough at cutting the joints. The proud parts are then planed down. It seems, then, that "just a little bit less" would be half the thickness of the gauge pin if the final result after glue-up was not to be planed to fit. The procedure of setting the gauge over the thickness of the adjoining piece, in theory, automatically takes care of drawer fit as to length and width by the total distance of the thickness of the gauge's pin if the measurements (usually, marks on a rod) of the available drawer space are used, unmodified, in the preparation of the drawer's parts. Draw height only, then, is the subject of further planing down, usually along the bottom edges, to fit. This accords, in the main, with Robert Weber's view: "I would imagine that when the outside dimension of the piece is less important, I would cut the pins and tails a bit proud and plane them down to the sides. Less stock removal that way." However, the outside dimensions of a drawer are important and the thickness of the gauge pin furnishes the appropriate small space to permit the sides fairly to fit the drawer opening. But all of this can be a bit theoretical unless applied by the hands of a first-rate workman. However, if such a procedure is consistently adopted improvement ensues to the extent, at least, that the amount of ad hoc planing is considerably reduced. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158077 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 12:46:54 Subject: Re: boiling oil Paul et al, No need for apologies. I thought it made good scents. My acquaintance with the vices and virtues ti-tree oil arises from the circumstance that my son's mother-in-law used to grow Melaleuca trees and distil their foliage to "oil" at something over 90% purity. A small drop applied to the inside of the arm and washed off almost immediately produced a very satisfactory welt, the oil at this purity being, I was informed, decidedly hygroscopic. I also understood that, after the oil was sold by the distiller, it was heavily diluted, by alcohol, I think, but I am not certain on this point, by the so-called manufacturers who then included the diluted material in products distributed to the health industry retailers. A little of the original oil went a very long way indeed to arrive at its final retail form but it could be purchased, very expensively, in its nearly pure form. As an inveterate user of the kerosene-fuelled blow torch I must admit that the smell of kerosene has never particularly bothered me and I find it fairly safe to deal with. My old dog might have another view as I came near on one occasion to setting him alight as, on my giving the torch a couple of pumps whilst the pipes were not yet hot enough, it became something of a mini flame-thrower just as he ambled in front of it. Since then he has declined to favour me with his company when I start playing with kerosene. Paul wrote: > Greeting John & GGs, My apologies for putting an N where the K belongs in > DAMHIKT, but I am sorta new to this lingo! Sometimes I do wonder whether we > are always talking about the same products. Tea Tree oil that we get here in > the States is melaleuca alternifolia and is generally, IME, sold in relative > small quantities and is somewhat expensive, but it is not anywhere nearly as > nasty as you describe the product you know. I have used it medicinally for > years, you just have to sit by yourself on a bus or drive with the windows > rolled down. > > At first I just dismissed it as a product to be used on wood due its > expense, but the more I thought about it, if the Tea Tree Oil saturated the > wood surface it might just work. But, it would be an expensive proposition > at least in the States. > > Again, IME, I think Kerosene does not get the respect say that gasoline > does, but Kerosene can be dangerous if the fumes are confined or it gets > warm enough to off-gas. I have seen it flash before. Of course, since you > don't normally burn turps I don't know how it reacts. Let me get my matches > out.... > > I have been considering your point about having fingerprints re-created from > my bum. Sounds terribly painful, but the Tea Tree Oil we get here has never > been such a strong distillate that it does that sort of damage, IME. I > would have had a bum-ectomy to replace my finger tips a long time ago if it > was that corrosive to skin! Conjures up strange images! > > I avoid Kero because it triggers migraines for me so I'll probably never get > to put it to the test as a fungus preventive. I would be interested to know > if others have tried Kerosene in this capacity. I don't know what is left > in/on the wood after Kero evaporates. Paul in Normal > > Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158078 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 16:25:10 Subject: Re: camphor wood Blake writes: > I just stumbled on a web page indicating that the camphor tree, source > of the camphor wood that I can't seem to find in the local specialty > lumber stores because of its rarity, is considered a pest in Florida and > is being eradicated. And ground into mulch!!!!!! > > http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/camphor.html > > Can't we stop this carnage? I'm not sure whether the camphor tree to which Blake refers is the same as the camphor laurel tree, an exotic, which is a declared pest and infests the waterways of Brisbane and beyond. It grows to a large, shady, deciduous tree unthreatened by native predation and which shades out native vegetative species and against which an unremitting campaign of eradication has been waged, not entirely successfully, for quite a number of years. It berries are very attractive to a large range of birds and, consequently, its spread is rapid along waterways. Its timber, however, is much sought after by turners and the makers of "camphor-wood" chests which keep the moths, silverfish etc. at bay from the chests' contents. The woodturners' clubs etc. have informal standing orders with the local government's environmental protection office to be notified concerning the proposed removal of these trees and, on receipt of notification, usually arrive promptly in sufficient numbers and properly equipped to remove the tree/s and depart with the timber to everyone's satisfaction although, I am informed, it took some time for the club members to get their act together and to be trained to be there on the day, failing which the trees were felled and chipped. Strangely, although the camphor laurel is much in demand by "hobbyist" woodworkers, some of whom provide themselves with a "nice little earner" from the pursuit of their craft, this timber seems never to have been regarded as being "commercial" enough to interest the mainstream sawmilling fraternity to any great extent. Regards from Brisbane, John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158079 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-11 06:49:34 Subject: Re: Stamp Enhancement Jim McVicar wrote: > I've recently acquired three boxwood spokeshaves. The manufacturer's names > are quite small and hard to read, even with a magnifier. Are there any > tricks to enhancing the type to make it easier to read? I recently saw a > plane on eBay where the seller went over the type with a white powder or > chalk so the type showed up well in photographs, but I've tried baking soda > and flour to no avail. > > Oh mighty porch, please share your wisdom. This would help: http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/ptm/ BugBear (tongue massively in cheek, although it REALLY would help) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158080 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-11 17:06:41 Subject: Re: boiling oil Ken Pendergrass tel is frens: > Friends > I never cease to be perplexed and confused over why one would add a > solvent to oil. What could it possibly add to the situation to improve > the working properties of the oil? No I won't ask that I'll just state > that it serves only to make the situation more unpleasant dangerous and > toxic. In my quest to prolong my woodworking career and avocation and to > not have a very short old age connected to an oxygen tank I avoid every > toxic fume I can! I do however use a lot of linseed oil. Doan tink no fren torkin bout improvin workin propertees a oyl, jus bout killin fungus. Hope perplexuations an confusications (soun paneful) cleer up quik wit appalachian a linseed. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158081 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-11 08:43:58 Subject: RE: Dovetail question : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of : Sgt42RHR@a... : Sent: 10 March 2006 17:51 : To: oldtools@r... : Subject: [OldTools] Dovetail question : : Two questions: Why set the marking gauge for "just a little bit : less than : the thickness of the tailboard"? And, how much is "just a : little bit less"? A look at my web site - Projects - A Bookcase in Oak, part way down the page 'A Strategy for the Joint' will, I think reveal all - well nearly all. When applied to drawer fitting, the tactic is to plane the front with very slightly tapered edges (apart from the bottom one) until it just enters the opening. One then cleans up the sides until all the end grain of the pins is just removed. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158082 ---- From: "Jeff Gorman" Date: 2006-03-11 08:43:58 Subject: RE: I kept the palette. Now what? : -----Original Message----- : From: oldtools-bounces@r... : [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Jim McVicar : Sent: 10 March 2006 10:30 : To: oldtools@r... : Subject: [OldTools] I kept the palette. Now what? : : : The oak is wide enough to make jaw faces but I wonder if its : coarse grain is : more susceptible to splitting under pressure. I can double-up the 3/4" : boards to make a good thick jaw face, which will help add : strength In terms of comfort when resting the arm on the bench top while chiselling horizontally, there's much to be said for a good thick jaw face. Mine is a bit under 2". For example, please see the fourth and fifth pics down, my web site - Dovetailing Detailed - Completing the Sockets. Jeff -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK http://www.amgron.clara.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158083 ---- From: Tony Blanks Date: 2006-03-11 22:10:02 Subject: Re: Spokeshave Makers/ Marples/Hibernia Works At 01:09 PM 11/03/2006, Jim McVicar wrote >After closer examination, and a bit of wine, I managed to nail down a few >letters on my boxwood spokeshaves. A little more digging on the net helped >fill in the missing letters. Two of them are Marples/Hibernia Works shaves. >One has a shamrock. > >I checked the archives and saw a bit of background on this company, but the >thread came up short. I think it was an old thread. Does anyone have more >information on this brand regarding company history and possible timeframes? > >Jim >Saint John, New Brunswick Hi Jim Hope it was a good Australian Shiraz and not one of those make it yourself in a box Canadian brews.........This is some info I posted back in 2000. I have cleaned up a few typos.... I don't know if this is in the archive or not. Don McConnell probably has this stuff tied down tighter than I do, but in the meantime........ Into the wayback machine for a question from John Lederer (still an active contributor - Hi John) and a response.......... Regards, Tony B Hobart, Tasmania "In the middle of a rather refined gloat over a $100 box of tools which turned into a fascinating thread about a clapboard marker, John Lederer mentioned, > two wood spokeshaves, including one that >says "Hibernia Sheffield" and appears to be box wood >with a brass ware (anyone know anything?), Hi John, Forget the Stanley stuff in the box, thats a Marples tool, and whats more, a tool from the days when Marples was a proud line rather than a marketing brand! Apologies to all Blue Chip owners, but you have to know the truth ;-( Should have a shamrock mark stamped on the iron somewhere. The shamrock mark was used by Wm Marples when trading alone before 1860 (1820 - 1862), then by Wm Marples and Sons from 1862 up until the firm ceased trading in its own right in the early 1960s. The company was then bought up and split up between C& J Hampton (Record) and Wm Ridgway, two companies which very shortly after were amalgamated as Record-Ridgway and started to go through some very rough times. The Marples name is still on a lot of stuff made by Record-Ridgway, but I haven't seen the shamrock mark on any of those tools. I used to think that the shamrock was a joke derived from the name of their factory, the Hibernia Works, but since it was probably in use before the firm moved, perhaps the Works name is a joke derived from the mark? Who knows? Not me for sure! A while ago, in pursuit of info on the Shamrock mark, Brent Beach asked me: >" Wonder why they called it Hibernia works when it was located in Sheffield?" I have been looking in the obvious books in my small collection but I can't find the answer. Somewhere I have a reference that attributes it to one of the sons having spent time in Ireland, done well for himself and possibly brought money back to go into the business. Wm Marples was previously in business at Broomspring Lane Sheffield as a sole proprietor, and moved to the new Hibernia Works in 1859. The company was trading as Wm Marples and Sons by 1862, so this would fit with the possibility of an injection of capital along with the energy of the next generation. Of course, all of that is speculation without documentary corroboration, and I don't have that...... All the best, Tony B ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158084 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-11 07:51:40 Subject: RE: Re: Camphor blocks and rust I use camphor blocks in my tool chests, which are more or less airtight, so the shop doesn't smell.... however, I LIKE the smell, so its nota big deal for me.... Before I started using camphor, I did get some rust, but none once I started using it.. --JD -----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Brian McInturff Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:01 PM To: Peter Huisman; pedger66@j...; oldtools@r... Subject: RE: [OldTools] Re: Camphor blocks and rust I've been using Camphor for years and haven't any problems with rust. The smell disipates quickly after I've opened the door and entered the shop. My shop space is small right now 12x16 and I have probably 20 blocks out. My shop is a metal building with paneling on the inside and in the winter it can get moist in there. I also wax a lot of my tools for this reason also. When I was in the Military I was a Chemical Specialist and when we ran the CS(Gas) chamber we use to use camphor afterwards to help clear up and clear out the choking agent. It worked great and is where I learned it's effects on steel as an inhibitor. Brian McInturff in Myrtle Beach philatelist@e... > [Original Message] > From: Peter Huisman > To: ; > Date: 3/10/2006 9:07:51 AM > Subject: [OldTools] Re: Camphor blocks and rust > > Phil wrote in part: > > Just wondering how the camphor blocks are working out for those who > recently started using them. Is the smell very strong? Is the rust demon > at bay? > > PeterH chips in: > > I can categorically say that little has rusted in the entire home of > my elderly MIL. And as for the smell, when the missus & I go visit, > I prefer to sit outside near the back corner of the fence. The corner > selected depending on wind direction. > > BTW, has any-one else experienced watery eyes and a choking sensation > when sat in a room surrounded by concentrated camphor? ;^) > > OT content: no rust. > > PeterH in Perth > anonymous silverfish breeder > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158085 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-11 09:33:28 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary et al, It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog reprints from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after the 1902 on Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz (same as price on bill, as seen above the item number). #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/dz (same again). #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at $10.00/dz (same). #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill as $3.50). #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say $12.00 a dozen years earlier!). The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. The catalog lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus an assorment pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation was minimal, C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to hold. I wonder which. It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large discounts). Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. Dennis > Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one > of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, > a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade > practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this > items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. > > >> Does anyone know the > >> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? > > > > these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common > > even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% > > off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. > > do the math they all work out within a penny or two. > > > > Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 > > Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 > > Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 > > $2.50 > > > > From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. > > I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps the "list" > > prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. > > > > Dennis Heyza ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158086 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-11 09:44:20 Subject: A bit more - was Re: [OldTools] Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? One more thing: Holley, NY is a town (population 1800) thirty miles west of Rochester. I'd bet Mr Edwards operated the local hardware/general store. There is a Richard Edwards still living in town. It might be interesting to send him a letter and see if he knows anything about they chap on the bill. In fact I think I will. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158087 ---- From: pedger66@j... Date: 2006-03-11 10:24:48 Subject: working for the man Steve, I've done the same thing: worked for myself for a while until I burned out on it, then for a boss until I burned out on that. And back and forth. Love the freedom of doing my own thing but also like a regular paycheck and benefits. Ah, life! I'm never satisfied. That's probably a good thing. BTW, when I worked for myself I often thought my employee was a fool and my boss was an idiot! Come to think of it, I feel the same way when I work for someone else! Ha! Phil E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158088 ---- From: Thomas Johnson Date: 2006-03-11 09:05:11 Subject: stumbled into a caning tip Greetings GG's \ I've been caning chairs on and off for 30 years ... made various gadgets to help myself out when a hole got too full, something got twisted ... couldn't get a strand under an existing loop. Buy a little packet of nylon cable ties ..... various widths. Shave the end to a chisel point, and voila' Slip it under a loop to get room for a strand ... slip it down through a hole to clear a passage ... I've never found anything to solve a frustrating problem so cheaply and effectively FWIW Tom (as always, necessity is the mother of invention ... and something right at hand usually has a built in answer) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158089 ---- From: Pfeiffer20@a... Date: 2006-03-11 12:07:56 Subject: Re: Subject: [OldTools] Robert Sorby company history >And lest I forget... here is the web page for Robert Sorby.... >http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/company_info.htm >Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... Gary, Yes, this is a great site! I found it a few weeks ago. I used to work for Neill Tools/Spear & Jackson, who currently own Sorby. The smartest thing that company did, and they didn't do many smart things in the past 15 years, was to leave Sorby alone and let it run itself as a full subsidiary, instead of trying to merge it into the Neill/S&J family - that certainly would have ruined Sorby!!! Great woodworking chisels - may be the best available today! Eric the Simonds guy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158090 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 13:14:21 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Dennis The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the status of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation flat or where there changes? I'll have to log in to some databases I have access to and see if there is anything that I can turn up on that time period. Thanks for the information on Holley, NY. If Holley doesn't have a local historical society, the Rochester Historical Society may have information. Some more research is in the offing. Best Gary On Mar 11, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Gary et al, > > It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog > reprints > from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after > the 1902 on > Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. > > #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz > (same as > price on bill, as seen above the item number). > > #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/dz > (same > again). > > #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at > $10.00/dz > (same). > > #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill as > $3.50). > > #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say $12.00 > a dozen > years earlier!). > > The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. The > catalog > lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus an > assorment > pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. > > So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation was > minimal, > C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to hold. I > wonder which. > > It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large > discounts). > Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. > > Dennis > >> Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one >> of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, >> a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade >> practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this >> items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. >> >>>> Does anyone know the >>>> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? >>> >>> these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common >>> even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% >>> off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. >>> do the math they all work out within a penny or two. >>> >>> Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 >>> Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 >>> Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 >>> $2.50 >>> >>> From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. >>> I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps the >>> "list" >>> prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. >>> >>> Dennis Heyza > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158091 ---- From: "Bill Taggart" Date: 2006-03-11 13:26:54 Subject: RE: Palette Wood That is quite lovely!! I have been thinking (for a long time) on and off about building myself some sort of work tote - I really like that!! Very nice - thanks for sharing! ----------------------------------------- Bill Taggart ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Roger Van Maren > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:24 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Palette Wood > > > At 08:24 AM 3/9/2006, Roger Van Maren wrote: > >I just finished a traditional open top tool tote out > >of a pallet I found a while back. It was mostly red > >oak but had 2 boards that look like either soft maple > >or maybe alder. Both were nicely spalted. The > >dimensions of the project were driven by the distance > >between the nail holes on the pallet. I'll see if I > >can get some pictures tonight and post them. > > > >Roger > > Here's a few shots of the tote I mentioned yesterday. With > the exception of > the handle witch is a piece of Tanoak from the scrap bin it > all came from > one pallet. Since this was going to be used for all sorts of > household > projects like carpentry, plumbing and electrical I figured the more > specialized I made the tool storage the less flexible it > would be. I ended > up with a modular approach. The trays and tool holders on the > one side just > lift out so additional long tools or different trays etc. can > be added. The > raised panel bottom and the 2 small trays are made from the > spalted mystery > wood. The oak has a few worm holes for character. The finish > is a BLO, > varnish & Japan drier thinned with naphtha. After it dried I > put on a coat > of dark brown wax that really brought out the grain. > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/rogervm/junk/Tote03.jpg Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158092 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-11 15:27:48 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Sorry, I've been napping. Holley is the next village over from me. (I think it's actually part of the town of 'Murray', but that's just an artifact of the complicated New York government.) If you need someone to do any onsite contacting, let me know. Gary K Albion, NY (Close enough to Buffalo NY that I've given up telling people that I live in Albion) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Roberts" To: "Dennis Heyza" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? > Dennis > > The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the status > of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation flat or where > there changes? I'll have to log in to some databases I have access to > and see if there is anything that I can turn up on that time period. > > Thanks for the information on Holley, NY. If Holley doesn't have a > local historical society, the Rochester Historical Society may have > information. Some more research is in the offing. > > Best > Gary > > On Mar 11, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > >> Gary et al, >> >> It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog >> reprints >> from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after >> the 1902 on >> Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. >> >> #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz >> (same as >> price on bill, as seen above the item number). >> >> #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/dz >> (same >> again). >> >> #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at >> $10.00/dz >> (same). >> >> #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill as >> $3.50). >> >> #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say $12.00 >> a dozen >> years earlier!). >> >> The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. The >> catalog >> lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus an >> assorment >> pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. >> >> So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation was >> minimal, >> C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to hold. I >> wonder which. >> >> It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large >> discounts). >> Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. >> >> Dennis >> >>> Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one >>> of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, >>> a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade >>> practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this >>> items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. >>> >>>>> Does anyone know the >>>>> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? >>>> >>>> these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common >>>> even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% >>>> off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. >>>> do the math they all work out within a penny or two. >>>> >>>> Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $6.93 >>>> Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 >>>> Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less 5 >>>> $2.50 >>>> >>>> From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. >>>> I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps the >>>> "list" >>>> prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. >>>> >>>> Dennis Heyza >> > > ............................... > Gary Roberts > Dedham, MA > toolemera@m... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158093 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-11 15:35:33 Subject: Eyeball balm Thank you for the eyeball balm. Nothing better than a man working wood with tools he has made from stone and steel using oly his bare hands (well, gloved hands). Then holding the tool down with his foot and holding the buring flame in his hands. Yes. Send this man to talk to this amyejensen person. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158094 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-11 18:29:38 Subject: So many questions Okay, porch denizens, the temperature here in New Brunswick is finally starting to warm up. My shop isn't heated, so I pretty much spend the winter reading and thinking up projects. Today was a balmy 55 degrees, so I decided to dismantle that oak palette I recently mentioned. Two hours later, I have six nice planks in need of a project. I think some of it may go into a tool tote like the one Roger Van Maren recently posted. In the dismantling process, I carefully pried each board off, leaving the nails protruding, and then snipped the ends of the nails off with a pair of hard-wire cutters. This left about 1/4" of nail to pound on so that the nail was less likely to bend when I struck it, which then left a 1/4" length through the other side so I could grab the head with a pry bar. The snipped nails meant I had less metal to pull through the oak. The big surprise was that several of the 4x5 block spacers are also oak. What a coincidence, I have an inshave that needs new handles. So, back to the wish list. I have a few things I'd like to tackle this summer and, as usual, I'm look to the collective wisdom for tips and advice (List Moms, am I allowed to submit a list?). 1. I want to make a frame saw. I built a bow saw a few years ago an used a length of bandsaw blade. It works great so I'm thinking of using the same on the frame saw. What width of blade should I use? 2. I need new handles for my inshave. It was recommended, for peening tangs, that I heat the tang to a dull red. Will a propane torch achieve this? 3. I'd like to make a case for my Stanley 45 and its cutters. Does anyone have plans they'd care to recommend? 4. I've been looking at the Lee Valley hold down with the brass tightening knob. Has anyone bought one of these and, if so, how do you like it? 5. Some of the boxwood spokeshaves I've recently acquired are quite worn. I've already received great info (thanks everyone) on adding brass wear plates. However, some of the wear is pretty deep, leaving a hollow under the wear plate area. Does this require a thick enough piece of brass to avoid bending or do I need to fill in the hollow before I add the brass? Thanks, Jim Saint John, New Brunswick Getting all excited about being in my shop without wearing five layers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158095 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 17:51:33 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary It would be great if, at your convenience of course, you could find out if there is a Holly historical society, or a regional historical society that might contain information about the mysterious Ira Edwards. A business directory, town listings, or geneaological list might suffice. A brief search turned up this tidbits: from: http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/edwards4.html We have the following possibility... Edwards, Ira — of Holley, Orleans County, N.Y. Member of New York state assembly from Orleans County, 1888-89. Burial location unknown. from: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyorlean/hllsde.htm We have another possiblity... EDWARDS, IRA OCT 1834 MAR 8, 1925 HUS OF SARAH JANE SMITH, SON OF EDWARD EDWARDS & ANN SHAFER SO DIV 55 but the question remains, is this The Edwards and did he own a hardware or general store in Holley, Orleans County, NY? Best Gary On Mar 11, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Gary K wrote: > Sorry, I've been napping. Holley is the next village over from me. > (I think it's actually part > of the town of 'Murray', but that's just an artifact > of the complicated New York government.) If you need someone to do > any onsite contacting, let me know. > > Gary K > Albion, NY (Close enough to Buffalo NY that > I've given up telling people that I live in Albion) > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Roberts" > To: "Dennis Heyza" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? > > >> Dennis >> The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the >> status of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation >> flat or where there changes? I'll have to log in to some >> databases I have access to and see if there is anything that I >> can turn up on that time period. >> Thanks for the information on Holley, NY. If Holley doesn't have >> a local historical society, the Rochester Historical Society may >> have information. Some more research is in the offing. >> Best >> Gary >> On Mar 11, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: >>> Gary et al, >>> >>> It occurred to me that I have one of the Chapin-Stephens catalog >>> reprints >>> from Astragal Press. It is the 1914 catalog, a dozen years after >>> the 1902 on >>> Gary's billhead. Here are the items and 1914 prices. >>> >>> #62 two-foot four-fold 1" wide boxwood rule priced at $8.00/dz >>> (same as >>> price on bill, as seen above the item number). >>> >>> #70 two-foot four-fold 1 3/8" wide boxwood rule priced at $4.00/ >>> dz (same >>> again). >>> >>> #76 two-thirds size(?) arch joint drafting scale boxwood rule at >>> $10.00/dz >>> (same). >>> >>> #36 square-joint boxwood caliper rule at $4.50/dz (price on bill >>> as $3.50). >>> >>> #290 1/2 cherry level assortment at $11.00/dz (billhead say >>> $12.00 a dozen >>> years earlier!). >>> >>> The 1/2 gross of level glasses at $12/gr is harder to tie down. >>> The catalog >>> lists two types of glasses (plain and marked) in 11 sizes plus >>> an assorment >>> pack. Prices range from $9.48 to $12.00. >>> >>> So prices didn't change between 1902 and 1914. Either inflation >>> was minimal, >>> C-S did a lot of cost reduction, or competition forced them to >>> hold. I >>> wonder which. >>> >>> It appears the catalog prices are retail (explaining the large >>> discounts). >>> Whether Mr Edwards was a distributor or retailer remains to be seen. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>>> Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one >>>> of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least >>>> expect it, >>>> a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade >>>> practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this >>>> items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. >>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know the >>>>>> translation of 60-10-10-10 and the other notes on this billhead? >>>>> >>>>> these cumulative discounts (not payment terms) are common >>>>> even today. So 60/10/10/10 is 60% >>>>> off, then 10% off the remainder, then 10% off the remainder, etc. >>>>> do the math they all work out within a penny or two. >>>>> >>>>> Item #1 list price = $23.75 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = >>>>> $6.93 >>>>> Item #2 list price = $6.00 less 60 less 10 less 10 less 10 = $1.76 >>>>> Item #3 list price = $6.00 less 40 less 10 less 10 less 10 less >>>>> 5 >>>>> $2.50 >>>>> >>>>> From my experience 10/10/10 or 10/10/5 is common today. >>>>> I don't know about these extreme discount examples. Perhaps >>>>> the "list" >>>>> prices were suggested retail. Then it would make sense. >>>>> >>>>> Dennis Heyza >>> >> ............................... >> Gary Roberts >> Dedham, MA >> toolemera@m... >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, >> usage, >> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >> To read the FAQ: >> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html >> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ >> OldTools@r... >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158096 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-11 17:53:27 Subject: the A2A British archives For those moments when you have nothing to do, try out the search function of A2A, the British archives search engine. Enter Planemaker and see what you get. http://www.a2a.org.uk/ best Gary ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158097 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-12 08:38:43 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: block planes Steve wrote in part: The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. PeterH asks: Are Roger's studies documented for public reading Steve, and if so, where might I find this information? PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158098 ---- From: Joel Mccarty Date: 2006-03-11 16:46:01 Subject: blade up planes : was indirect gloat and tropical Jim, Never tried back bevels seems neat. What I was suggesting with bevel up blades was that the sharpening angle effects the cutting angle unlike a normal bevel down plane. IE if I change the bevel angle I can change the effective cutting angle from normal (45) to york(50) or higher if neccessary. Joel McCarty I've been playing with so-called back bevels on planes to get a higher effective cutting angle, and it works well for reducing tearout (for me on various figured domestic and exotic hardwoods, but YMMV). I just got a call that the high-angle frog for my LN4.5 came in today. I don't actually expect to get different performance from it vs using a back-bevel, but I wanted to try. I can't imagine that bevel up or down makes any difference if the cutting angle is the same, although one might be less likely to chatter. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158099 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-11 19:55:07 Subject: Re: Type Studies WAS: block planes On Mar 11, 2006, at 7:38 PM, Peter Huisman wrote: > Steve wrote in part: > > The popular type-studies of Stanley planes were mostly done by Roger > Smith, of PTAMPIA fame. > > PeterH asks: > > Are Roger's studies documented for public reading Steve, and if so, > where might I find this information? > > > Please see Sandy's post from earlier in the thread: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml? message_id=158040&submit_thread=1#message I'll add that I have had a number of emails saying there is a snowball's chance in hell of John Walter revising and/or reprinting his Guide. Is there no alternative for someone to get rights and reprint the Guide? Say it ain't so that the Guide is dead and gone. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158100 ---- From: "Lew Soloway" Date: 2006-03-11 17:59:34 Subject: RE: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" Isn't Galena, the next checkpoint, where the Koontz's are? Lew in relatively warmer So Cal -----Original Message----- From: Bill Kasper [mailto:dragonlist@i...] Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:45 AM To: oldtools@r... list Subject: [OldTools] OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_sp_ot/iditarod way to go! bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158101 ---- From: "Phil and Debbie Koontz" Date: 2006-03-11 17:17:18 Subject: RE: OT: "Swingley Leads Iditarod" >Isn't Galena, the next checkpoint, where the Koontz's are? Yep--Doug Swingley went through last night. Not our list mom Chris Swingley, just to clarify ;^) And I shook hands this morning with Susan Butcher, who is sort of a hero of mine. She's not racing this year, but then, neither am I. She has a lot better reason than I do, of course--http://www.susanbutcher.com/ PK ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158102 ---- From: Benjamin Mullin Date: 2006-03-11 21:42:09 Subject: Yankee 41A and other push type drills Its time for another question for the wise folks on the list. I picked up a fairly shiny Yankee 41A at an estate sale Friday afternoon. The motion was a little jerky, but a little oiling fixed that quickly. The handle came with about a half dozen bits. These bits look more like a reamer than a drill to me, but then again I have no experience with these kinds of things. So the question is, what is the proper usage of this tool. I've put a bit in the chuck and had a go at some wood. Just a bunch of rapid compressions on the spring loaded action. It does make a nice clean hole its just a little slow going. Am I going about it right? Ben Who was very suprised to turn on the TV this morning to watch St. Roy and found "Glue Gun Decor: How To Dress Up Your Home" instead. And next week looks to be something else. What have they done with my St. Roy? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158103 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-11 21:16:47 Subject: Re: So many questions On Mar 11, 2006, at 2:29 PM, Jim McVicar wrote: [snip, per FAQ] > 1. I want to make a frame saw. I built a bow saw a few years ago an > used a > length of bandsaw blade. It works great so I'm thinking of using > the same on > the frame saw. What width of blade should I use? Reg'lar 1/2" wide, 6 tpi, non-hook teeth D*lta bubblepack bandsaw blade from the Borg will do. > 3. I'd like to make a case for my Stanley 45 and its cutters. Does > anyone > have plans they'd care to recommend? Not a plan, but how about a picture or two: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/categories.php?cat_id=262 This is made of pine boards, with "candlebox" lid that slides into grooves. Bottom is floating panel in grooves. I made it big enough to stow the plane with long rods installed. The 2 cutter boxes are in a tiered rack to one side. The design on the lid is taken from the stock instruction sheet for this vintage (SW), expanded on a photocopier, traced on lid, and etched with woodburner. Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158104 ---- From: "Thomas Graham" Date: 2006-03-12 06:11:59 Subject: PATINA Sale/Auction GGs, Yesterday's PATINA tool sale and auction is history. And I can relax until next year. This was my first year for running the dealer sale part of the event and I was almost certain I would screw it up. Well, I didn't. Or think I didn't. There were a few minor glitches, but we survived. Lessons learned for next year. We had over 50 dealers with 80 or so tables inside. Tailgater's stretched in two rows from one end of the parking lot to the other. The weather was better than anything in recent memory. Usually there is cold, rain and/or snow (or both), and a biting wind. Yesterday was absolutely balmy. I want to thank Tony Seo and other OTL members for their posting about the sale. I had fully intended to send an announcement and directions to the Damascus VFD hall, but just wasn't able to do it. I was able to talk fleetingly with Tony and ran into Steve Reynolds. He said he had seen Todd Hughes . I am sure other list members were there as well, but didn't see anybody else. Probably, because I was too busy running around. I was the chubby guy in the red suspenders with a worried look on my face. Till next year, Tom Graham Round Hill, VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158105 ---- From: Alf Date: 2006-03-12 08:25:49 Subject: Re: So many questions Jim McVicar wrote: > 4. I've been looking at the Lee Valley hold down with the brass tightening > knob. Has anyone bought one of these and, if so, how do you like it? Bought one, oh, 5 or 6 months ago and am now wondering why I hesitated so long. Excellent grip and the screw tightening rather than the whack-it-wiv-a-mallet type fits my more 20thC workshop. My one worry was that turning that knob would be tedious and slow, but once it's slackened off and no longer actually gripping it spins very easily and hasn't proved to be an issue at all. > 5. Some of the boxwood spokeshaves I've recently acquired are quite worn. > I've already received great info (thanks everyone) on adding brass wear > plates. However, some of the wear is pretty deep, leaving a hollow under the > wear plate area. Does this require a thick enough piece of brass to avoid > bending or do I need to fill in the hollow before I add the brass? How about a wear "plate" in a suitably hard-wearing wood and solve both problems in one fell swoop? Cheers, Alf In Cornwall, west o' England, where the drizzle looks set in for the day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158106 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-12 20:48:28 Subject: re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary wrote in part: Thanks Dennis for providing the answer to my question. This is one of the things that I love about ephemera... when you least expect it, a bit of history pops up that sheds some light on business / trade practices of long ago. I'll have to track down the buyer of this items to see if he was, in fact, a wholesaler or retailer. PeterH chips in: At the risk of drawing the ire of the listmoms, this discussion also applies to handtools. In Australia, distributors will provide price lists, and then, thanks mainly to that "wunnerful invenchen" - the IBM compatable pc and associated software - the buyers are categorised into discount groups. So PeterH Enterprises, because he does AUD$5 million a month, gets 55 percent off retail. Gary Roberts Homespun on the other hand, doesn't want an account, pays cash for everything - "yessir money straight into into your till", and for that priviledge pays retail less only 10 percent discount. The rub here is that PeterH Ent., hangs on to their creditor's money for 120 days. Huh? Who's the goose here? Names and characters assassinated here is purely accidental, and bordering on the ficticious. Truth is, whenever I go to purchase something where the selling party asks if I "got an account", I always - always - respond with the line: "Nope, but you know what that means doncha? - You get the money upfront, right now, so gimme the best price you got to encourage the deal, and we'll save us both some money". Truth is stranger than fiction. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158107 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-12 21:14:01 Subject: Re: boiling oil John wrote in part: As an inveterate user of the kerosene-fuelled blow torch I must admit that the smell of kerosene has never particularly bothered me and I find it fairly safe to deal with. My old dog might have another view as I came near on one occasion to setting him alight as, on my giving the torch a couple of pumps whilst the pipes were not yet hot enough, it became something of a mini flame-thrower just as he ambled in front of it. PeterH chips in: My SWMBO, who spent many of her younger years on an annual camp-out with her parents and assocated families, confesses to enjoying the smell of a lit kerosene lamp. I must add that these people were well intune with a correctly set flame and were quite intolerant of a sooty glass, as I found out to my discomfort. To encompass this discussion into the theme of this list: I asked of some people, some time ago, about how I might protect new jarrah reeded decking that I had laid for our balcony. The concesus was that a mix of LSO and kero would do the trick. Being difficult to persuade by nature, I sought the advice of those with a vested interest in telling me the opposite of fokelore, the paint store bloke. His argument, that the painting of a mix of kero and LSO would blacken the wood, instantly flashed visions of actual applications I has witnessed of our wonderful Red Jarrah hardwood rendered almost colourless and a sickly black, after treatment with the aforementioned concoction and the passage of several months of diverse weather. I settled on his (pricey) recommendation and after proper application have not had the occasion to regret the purchase. PeterH in Perth ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158108 ---- From: "Dennis Heyza" Date: 2006-03-12 09:12:19 Subject: Re: re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Regarding discounting of merchandise Peter added - > In Australia, distributors will provide price lists, and then, thanks > mainly to that "wunnerful invenchen" - the IBM compatable pc and > associated software - the buyers are categorised into discount groups. > So PeterH Enterprises, because he does AUD$5 million a month, gets > 55 percent off retail. Gary Roberts Homespun on the other hand, doesn't > want an account, pays cash for everything - "yessir money straight into > into your till", and for that priviledge pays retail less only 10 > percent discount. The rub here is that PeterH Ent., hangs on > to their creditor's money for 120 days. Huh? Who's the goose here? After stating I understood the concept but NOT the purpose of 60/10/10 (or whatever) discounting, it dawned on me last night someone did attempt to explain it to me once. It's been some years but here's the general idea: You are a retailer. As such, you pay the manufacturer 60% of list. Then you agree to put the manufacturer's logo (say 12" x 10") on the area where the merchandise is. That gets you a 10% "high visibility" discount. Then you place the manufacturer's logo in your advertising flyer (important for non-big-name companies). That gets you 10% more. And so forth and so on. I wondered why they didn't just get the cumulative discount instead of all the above. I was told this concept has existed in the industry forever (obviously based on Gary's billhead), buyers get their jollies and impress the boss by showing how many discounts they squeezed from the supplier, and old habits are just hard to die. The best example I can think of at the consumer level is auto insurance. They love to tell you how your premium is $1200 but by virtue of your good driving record, age, multiple cars, anti-lock brakes, ad nauseum, YOU only pay $500. Admit it now, it does make you feel good, doesn't it? ;^) Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158109 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-12 12:36:38 Subject: 200 items per hour That's what I counted at Saturday's LFOD auction in Indianapolis. ISTM that a lot of things were sold to absentee bidders, and no one was willing to challenge, once Bill Baxter said "I have _n_dollars on this who'll give me...." I dunno if experience says that absentee bidders have deep pockets and it isn't worth competing, or what. Steve Linebeck was there early, but didn't stay for the auction - I think he said something about having to take a daughter back to college. ( I know where that's at! =B^O ) Chris Berger was there and I _think_ I saw Tom Volpe. The woodies were either out of my price range, or crap (or both!) but I did feed the M-F monkey, just a bit. I picked up a Type 3 #22 (length of the sole in inches, Jeff) jointer in what I'd call Excellent condition. The japanning was listed as "99% original" on Martin's tag, but maybe I'm too skeptical. OTOH, there's only a teensy bit of rust where the user's left hand would sit when planing. Maybe it hadn't seen much use, after all. I also picked up a small box-lot: a Buck Rodgers #170 pushdrill, and #104 eggbeater both in Good condition, the red plastic shows some significant wear on both. There were some drillpoints in the handles of each - not a complete set, and in the #104 they were fairly recent "Yankee" style. In addition, there were two NIB items - a #107 carving set that's SWMBO will get for Mothers day, and a #29X automatic screwdriver. The carving set had a Washita slipstone, and a "NORTON" carborundum stone, the screwdriver had two bits for slotted screws and three drillpoints in the original little plastic "bottle." Don't think the price was too gloatable: US$65 for the plane, and US $60 for the box-lot, but not too bad. Not too bad. I didn't stay till the bitter end - so I didn't find out what a particular marking-gage went for. It looked a lot like the one the Leachmeister shows at http://www.supertool.com/etcetera/isanctum/ is1.htm "the extremely rare Brown & Barry Patent of July 7th, 1868." I didn't examine it closely, so I might have mistaken another sort for that one. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... "I know no class of my fellowmen, however just, enlightened, and humane, which can be wisely and safely trusted absolutely with the liberties of any other class." --Fredrick Douglass ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158110 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-12 12:49:37 Subject: Re: Yankee 41A and other push type drills Ben Mullin wrote: > I picked up a fairly shiny Yankee 41A at an estate sale Friday > afternoon. The motion was a little jerky, but a little oiling fixed > that quickly. The handle came with about a half dozen bits. These > bits look more like a reamer than a drill to me, but then again I have > no experience with these kinds of things. Good pickup, Ben. Those shiny YANKEE No. 41s are nice tools and look great to boot. They always seem to respond nicely to a drop of oil. You may want to attempt to clean it out with a solvent, such as mineral spirits or WD40 before oiling (or re-oiling in this case). It is best to flush out dirt and grit before applying oil. The bits are reamer-looking because they are the fluted type for use in wood and wood byproducts. Twist drills are (in my opinion) the byproduct of the machine age and developed for metal. No real reason to have twist drills in a tool meant for carpentry and woodworking. > > So the question is, what is the proper usage of this tool. I've put a > bit in the chuck and had a go at some wood. Just a bunch of rapid > compressions on the spring loaded action. It does make a nice clean > hole its just a little slow going. Am I going about it right? You seem to have a natural talent for the tool, as you got a nice clean hole. Believe me, some don't have the aptitude to use a pushdrill. As a comparison, have you ever noticed the way people use a paper towel dispenser in a restroom? I'm speaking of one of the types that have a handle which is pushed down to deliver a length of paper, and requires a series of depressions to get an adequate length of paper, with the paper being removed by ripping it off along a length of serrated knife. Ever notice how some people yank down on the lever as if they are trying to yank the dispenser off the wall? And have you noticed how when frustrated by the dispenser's unwillingness to be displaced in this manner, they attempt to remove it by yanking on the towel with a force normally reserved for a tug-of-war match? Even if their intention is to save time rather than dispenser vandalism, how much time can you save, a picosecond? Good pushdrill technique requires one to get into touch with their sensual side. Let the pushdrill handle snuggle into your palm. Hold it with a pressure that is firm yet not a deathgrip. Aim the pointy end at the spot to be drilled. Orient your tool perpendicularly. Apply a firm, yet completely controlled, thrust along the axial line of the pushdrill. Apply yielding resistance as the pushdrill naturally springs back to its original length, don't let the point jump out of its hole. The spring in the tool and the spiral mechanism are going to want to turn at a certain speed, a resonance if you will. Get in touch with this natural speed of the tool. I've said before, and I will repeat, the tool will want you to pump it with a speed and firmness that is the same as other pleasurable pumping experiences (wink, wink). You shouldn't rush the action anymore than you would rush any other pleasurable act. Enjoy the ride, take it nice and easy. Derive all the joy you can from it. Should your problem be that the drill points are not sharp, they can be sharpened easily and quickly. The points only cut at the beveled ends, the flutes do no cutting. You merely have to hone the points at the same angles that they are made. The largest point sizes is very often not worn much. It can serve as a model for the angles as it is large and easy to see. Use a stone, diamond plate, or scarysharp paper to hone the point, being careful to retain the angles. Now, if all the angles are messed up and you have no model, or if you are detail minded sharpener and insist on the last word of precision, you can use a drill point gage. They come in a simple flat steel rule type, a nice accessory for a machinist rule (such as the Starrett No 22C, http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/groupf.asp?GroupID=211 ), or the bonerific, gizmotic, Morse type http://www.datamp.org/displayPatent.php?number=1008126&type=UT I'm a big fan of YANKEE tools and that includes the many pushdrill models they made. But no pushdrill made by them or anyone else compares to the model that Millers Falls (I think) made for Craftsman. They are extremely well made, hold up very well over time, have a see-through point magazine, look great, have a powerful smooth moving spring, and have a great feel in the hand. I don't know if they have a model number. They look similar to the No 100 Buck Rogers pushdrill, but have different materials of construction. The Buck Rogers ones don't hold up well over time. Get plenty of them, you have GITs to kit up. Kids love these pushdrills. And you need backup yourself. Regards, Steve - just say, "No more fun tool in the till than a pushdrill" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158111 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-12 10:25:23 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil On Mar 12, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Peter Huisman wrote: [snip nostalgic campout recollections, sparked by the smell of burning kerosene] > I asked how I might protect new jarrah decking. The consensus > was that a mix of > LSO and kero would do the trick. I sought the advice of the paint > store bloke. His argument, > that the painting of a mix of kero and LSO would blacken the wood, > instantly flashed > visions of actual applications I has witnessed of our wonderful Red > Jarrah hardwood > rendered almost colourless and a sickly black, after treatment with > the aforementioned > concoction and the passage of several months of diverse weather. How 'bout a Blast From the Past, archive msg 4721, August 27, 1996: Tom Holloway wrote: > Lot of talk on the list about "mineral spirits" in rustbucket > degunking process. The question: what's the substantive, meaningful, > chemical difference, if any, between mineral spirits and kerosene? And is > commercial "paint thinner" anything different? That is, other than price. > Around here, mineral spirits goes for about $6.50 per gallon, paint thinner > about $4.00 per gallon--and if I take my own blue can to the pump at the > side of the gas station I get kerosene for $1.19/gallon. > So, seriously, is there any real advantage to using mineral spirits > over kerosene for old tool cleaning? Dave Berry replied: A while back I posted a summary about naptha vs mineral spirits. Basically, they're nearly the same thing (pure saturated hydrocarbons), but differ in volatility (naptha is "lighter" = more volatile). Both are extremely mild on reactively cured finishes, like japaning, varnishes, etc. Kerosene is also _mainly_ saturated hydrocarbons, but it's chock full of all kinds of aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene, not to mention generic impurities known around the chem lab by the technical terms "brown gunk" or sh*t. One of the reasons it's so cheap is that it costs money to refine (purify) kerosene into mineral spirits. Pure hydrocarbons are colorless, last kerosene I saw was almost orange pink. Also, kerosene is even less volatile than mineral spirits, so it will take longer to dry. Yah, kerosene probably isn't that bad for cleaning tools, but (1) work outside, with lots of ventilation, and (2) don't cry to me if it acts as a somewhat stronger solvent and strips off the japaning or whatever. -Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158112 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-12 13:51:05 Subject: PATINA Report 2006 Yesterday was the festive PATINA Spring tool meet, and it was a great time. Tom and I arrived in Moby III at about 6:15, just in time to claim one of the last spots at the front of the tailgate area. I was surprised that there were that many tailgaters set up that early as usually the lot is half to 2/3s full by then and fills up at around 7. I had reminded the Sawnut that our method of operation is to park and LOOK FOR TOOLS FIRST, than set up to sell. He lost his mind a couple of years ago and setup first. We have a tendency to separate as we prowl around. When we met up again I had acquired a scraper plane and a pushdrill. Surprise, surprise - Dr. D8 had bought saws. I had noticed a lot of patternmaker's vises this year. A ton of user benchplanes were on sale, at a wide range of prices. Saws out the wazoo. Even more chisels were out the wazoo. A number of old workbenches were available. We set up to sell and moved a few things. Tom sold quite a few chisels. Not a lot dollarwise, but we both put a few shekels in the pocket in anticipation of buying things in the hall. The weather was so nice that folks stayed in the tailgate area even past the time when the unwashed masses are allowed into the hall for free. Although the tailgaters had arrive earlier than usual, I think there were fewer overall. A second row of parked cars never did form behind the front area whereas in previous years there has always been one. I think there were less attendees overall. There was not a total crush of people in the hall as there always has been, and it cleared out much earlier than usual. I was skunked on tools. Hardly anything on my want list was available. I bought a GTD catalog and that was it. I made a third complete pass of the hall whereas I usually do two - I was thinking the third time would be the charm and I would find some great items. Nothing turned up. Tom got a great bargain on a Millers Falls No 18c plane in a condition that would make the west coast MFia Don, Ken Greenburg, swoon. I went back out to the balmy breezes and bright sunshine of the tailgate and put out some things again, whilst chatting with Tom and Joe Rogers. I decided to make another pass of the parking lot and two spots over found a Disston No 12 with a crisp nib and a full blade. I got permission to take it back to show to Tom and Joe and feign that I wasn't sure if I should buy it. After irritating the hell out of both of them, I went back and bought if for a buck less than the tag price. They were incredulous that a No 12 would still be there that late in the day when everyone was looking for one, and the very few there were north of the $100 mark. I was fortunate to talk to a bunch of great guys during the course of the day. Bill Duffield and Joe Rogers spent a good amount of time talking tools. Charlie Driggs was looking great after some recent surgery. He looked empty handed when he left, though. Met Tom Graham just before we left, and he looked busier than a one armed paper hanger. We met Chris Gochnour from Fine Woodworking and a fine gentleman he is. I had brought a Gage No 5 jackplane that I hadn't looked at for months. I was asking a high amount for it in the morning and no one bit. When I was putting it away before going in the hall, the bright sun showed it to be in far less condition than I realized. I felt like a moron for my original asking price. I chopped it in half in the afternoon and Chris picked it up. He and Tom found they have a Utah connection. My usual policy is not to stop and chat with folks in the hall during the first hour or so. I feel as though I'm busy looking for treasure, and so are they and they would appreciate not being delayed from their appointed rounds. So when I saw someone who looked like Bill Ghio, and someone who looked like Chris Schwartz (who said he wasn't coming this year) I didn't attempt to meet up. I didn't see them later, so never determined if it was them or not. Tony Seo, the new Man in Black, stopped by whilst trolling the tailgate. Anatol Pallilo stopped by late in the day and discussed the DVD releases of his earlier video productions. Of course, we met up with Todd Hughes and his buddy Joe Rut. Todd, as you might guess, had the quote of the day. I was standing there a couple years ago when Bill Duffield asked Todd to sell him one of his many anvils. When Todd said no, poor Bill looked just like a kid who watched the schoolyard bully crush his lollipop. So yesterday, I was harassing Todd to sell Bill one of his anvils and he said, "You know, I kinda like to collect stuff you can stack". I wish you continued good success in your stacks, Todd. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158113 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-12 14:08:53 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes John Edwards continues to express puzzlement concerning handled (jack) rabbet planes: >Could a fellow Galoot enlighten me on the mysteries of the wooden rabbet >(rebate, Jeff) plane ? > >Now I understand fillisters with the built in adjustable fence. >The fence and depth stop combine to control the width and depth of cut. > >... > >Take now the Ohio tool 119 same page (link) > >http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/OhioTool/Rabbet.htm > >Here with have a tool with a skewed mouth. Nickers on both sides ???? What >would this be used for ? No depth stop to control the cut. >Cross grain on a panel using a batten as a guide with the nickers down ??? >Long grain with the nickers up and the batten again ?? How would you control >depth ?? John et al, I think your questions haven't received much response for a couple of reenforcing reasons. First, there hasn't been much written about the purpose and role of the handled rabbet planes. Second, their lack of "features" (depth stops and fences) is, likely, an indication that they were intended for use in a diverse set of circumstances. So, it probably won't be possible to narrow down their usage to just one or two applications. As you've already surmised, the nickers seem to suggest cross-grain usage, at least, part of the time. (Incidentally, though not often found, regular rabbet planes were also offered with nickers in the trade catalogues.) Also, the lack of a fence does suggest the use of a batten, or some "guiding" feature, to begin the cut - whether along the grain or across. The lack of a depth stop seems particularly worrisome to you. As with regular rabbet planes, this simply suggests that they were typically worked to a gauge line of some sort. In my experience, this approach allows for the rabbet plane to be quite versatile and capable of quite accurate work. There is an erroneous view abroad that rabbet planes are really only useful for preliminary, and/or "rough" work. Early on, I was fortunate enough to acquire a skewed 1 1/2" Ohio Tool rabbet plane in very good working order. In doing mostly cabinet work, I found that I could "rough in" a rabbet fairly quickly with a fillister plane (stopping just shy of the gauge lines on both surfaces), then do the final dimensioning and clean-up with the rabbet plane. The lack of a depth stop and fence allowed me to work both surfaces in either direction, and I could deal with any pesky tear-out while accomplishing a good deal of accuracy - just by planing to the gauge lines. I've recently run across fairly early textual information which parallels my experience quite nicely - so I'm far from the first to discover this. I believe much the same can be said for handled rabbet planes. By simple virtue of the fact that they were longer, and, generally, at the wider end of the width range, it would seem that handled rabbet planes were intended for larger scale work than "regular" rabbet planes. The ones with center totes/handles may have been offered for those who simply preferred handles. Or, possibly, to help make the wider planes more manageable. The offset handle, as shown in the linked illustration, would provide clearance for holding the plane while working near obstructions. In short, I believe these planes were primarily intended for use by people working with larger timbers and/or heavy planking. Framers, bridge builders (longer handled rabbet planes are listed for bridge building), ship's carpenters, coach-makers (possibly), and millwrights all come to mind. In line with this, back in 1977, Ken Bassett (in _Plane Talk_), reported having acquired a millwright's "dapping plane" from a retired sawmill millwright. It was a rabbet plane with an axially adjustable handle, and was described as "... used for cutting daps; notches in timbers to receive other timbers. ... ." Just one of many uses for these planes, I believe. Sorry my reply may not have arrived at the clarity and specificity you might have liked, but, hopefully, it may help generate more discussion and understanding of this topic. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158114 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-12 12:12:16 Subject: Mystical Dovetail Joint This is most interesting. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6259849138 I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the others on the porch think the solution is. A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when incorporated into a real project. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158115 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-12 15:32:28 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, Searching for I. Sorby on this site I came across this: > Although John Sorby & Sons was acquired first in 1849 by Lockwood Brothers - cousins of the family - and later by both Turner, Naylor and Co and William Marples, the "I and H Sorby" mark was still used well into the twentieth century. The picture is further clouded another edge tool manufacturer, C & J Turner - latterly Joseph Turner and Co - using the "I. Sorby" trade mark which they acquired from Sorby and Turner.< The reason for my interest is a chisel I inherited that has I. Sorby Cast Steel on the back (Bevel Edge Side) and on the reverse a very good likeness of Punch and raised letters W W. So it would seem this is in fact a chisel made by Turner. Has anyone seen this combination of marks before? Any idea on dates? Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158116 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-12 15:30:17 Subject: Re: re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Thanks to Dennis and Peter for more fodder for the mill. I reviewed some other billheads to refresh my memory. There are a variety of formats used to indicate discounts given. Methinks this might be an article in the making IF I can deduce the meaning of the numbers. Eventually most of these billheads will be online, at which time I'll solicit opinions. An initial review seems to indicate that big time buyers received the discounts and small time retailers didn't. But that might be a function of the wholesaler's well being? Keep you posted Gary On Mar 12, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote: > Regarding discounting of merchandise Peter added - > >> In Australia, distributors will provide price lists, and then, thanks >> mainly to that "wunnerful invenchen" - the IBM compatable pc and >> associated software - the buyers are categorised into discount >> groups. >> So PeterH Enterprises, because he does AUD$5 million a month, gets >> 55 percent off retail. Gary Roberts Homespun on the other hand, >> doesn't >> want an account, pays cash for everything - "yessir money straight >> into >> into your till", and for that priviledge pays retail less only 10 >> percent discount. The rub here is that PeterH Ent., hangs on >> to their creditor's money for 120 days. Huh? Who's the goose here? > > After stating I understood the concept but NOT the purpose of > 60/10/10 (or > whatever) discounting, it dawned on me last night someone did > attempt to > explain it to me once. It's been some years but here's the general > idea: > > You are a retailer. As such, you pay the manufacturer 60% of list. > Then you > agree to put the manufacturer's logo (say 12" x 10") on the area > where the > merchandise is. That gets you a 10% "high visibility" discount. > Then you > place the manufacturer's logo in your advertising flyer (important for > non-big-name companies). That gets you 10% more. And so forth and > so on. > > I wondered why they didn't just get the cumulative discount instead > of all > the above. I was told this concept has existed in the industry forever > (obviously based on Gary's billhead), buyers get their jollies and > impress > the boss by showing how many discounts they squeezed from the > supplier, and > old habits are just hard to die. > > The best example I can think of at the consumer level is auto > insurance. > They love to tell you how your premium is $1200 but by virtue of > your good > driving record, age, multiple cars, anti-lock brakes, ad nauseum, > YOU only > pay $500. > > Admit it now, it does make you feel good, doesn't it? ;^) > > Dennis > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158117 ---- From: Peter Hyde Date: 2006-03-12 15:49:04 Subject: Re: OldTools Digest, Vol 7, I had just posted my query about I. Sorby and the Punch trademark when I noticed Gary's post. So a quick visit to the link he gave, came up with this: Records of Hadfields Limited of East Hecla Works, Sheffield. Catalogue Ref. MNHD Creator(s): Hadfields Limited of Sheffield FILE - Price list for punch brand tools. - ref. MNHD1257 - date: 1928 hit[from Scope and Content] Inscribed:- 1928 Edition / I. Sorby / Price List / Turner, Naylor and Co Ltd. So it appears I do not have a Sorby chisel! This Old Tools group is something else! Peter I have moved to: http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pHyde/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158118 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-12 12:49:50 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Mar 12, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > This is most interesting. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > > I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the > others on the > porch think the solution is. > > A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when > incorporated into a real project. I have watched St. Roy cut this joint. It is cut on a diagonal to the flats, and is put together the same way. Simple when you see him do it. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158119 ---- From: Dave Strommen Date: 2006-03-12 15:55:30 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint I suspect they are like sliding dovetails that run to adjoining sides instead of opposite. They just slide together on the diagonal - corner to corner. Dave Strommen On Mar 12, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Alan DuBoff wrote: > This is most interesting. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > > I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the > others on the > porch think the solution is. > > A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when > incorporated into a real project. > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158120 ---- From: cpmueller@c... (Pete & Christine Mueller) Date: 2006-03-12 20:50:59 Subject: Split Nut Tutorial Again GGs, I had a little time today to tweak some features of the last tutorial I did. I created a Microsoft Word document that has links to the pictures on GIC. The file is much smaller (44k) for those folks with dialup service. The larger PDF files are no longer available. Ping me if you want that. Download the file here: http://home.comcast.net/~cpmueller/Split_Nut_Replacement-Small.doc If your saw is completely missing a post and nut, ping me as I have a nice way of fixing that situation too. Best Regards, Pete Mueller Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158121 ---- From: Tom Holloway Date: 2006-03-12 13:05:07 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes On Mar 12, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Don McConnell wrote: [an erudite treatise on the subject, responding to John Edwards, most snipped here] > The lack of a depth stop seems particularly worrisome to you. As with > regular rabbet planes, this simply suggests that they were typically > worked to a gauge line of some sort. In my experience, this approach > allows for the rabbet plane to be quite versatile and capable of > quite accurate work. If a mostly-metal plane guy can enter the conversation: A plane I use a lot is a 1940s-era Stanley #10 1/2, billed as the "carriage maker's rabbet plane," which was never fitted with a depth stop. Same for its larger brother, counterintuitively numbered 10. I like it because it can be used in either direction, thus always with the grain, and as Don suggests, I use it to work to a gauged line. I surmise someone decided to use the "carriage maker's" label to distinguish it from "cabinetmaker's" rabbet plane, which would presumably be fitted with a depth stop (the Stanley version being numbered #78). Tom Holloway ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158122 ---- From: "Bramel, Jim" Date: 2006-03-12 16:12:36 Subject: RE: Re: boiling oil I wish I could get kerosene for $1.19 a gallon now. I bought five gallons in December to heat my "area" (26' X 24') and it was $3.29 a gallon. I used all five gallons that afternoon. I have not heated it since then - no woodworking either. Jim ________________________________ From: oldtools-bounces@r... on behalf of Tom Holloway Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 1:25 PM To: Galoots Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: boiling oil On Mar 12, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Peter Huisman wrote: [snip nostalgic campout recollections, sparked by the smell of burning kerosene] How 'bout a Blast From the Past, archive msg 4721, August 27, 1996: Tom Holloway wrote: if I take my own blue can to the pump at the > side of the gas station I get kerosene for $1.19/gallon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158123 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-12 13:17:50 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Sunday 12 March 2006 12:49 pm, James Thompson wrote: > I have watched St. Roy cut this joint. It is cut on a diagonal to the > flats, and is put together the same way. Simple when you see him do it. On Sunday 12 March 2006 12:55 pm, Dave Strommen wrote: > I suspect they are like sliding dovetails that run to adjoining sides > instead of opposite. They just slide together on the diagonal - > corner to corner. If I understand you guys correctly, this is how I figured it was done, but creating a sliding dovetail that incorporates to adjoining sides, so that the dovetail is actually angled, allowing the pins to slide in from the diagonal. Dave's description is more of how I viewed this, and I think Jim is saying the same thing. Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in email. http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg Anyone have any other interesting joints that seem impossible? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158124 ---- From: Alex Moseley Date: 2006-03-12 13:34:50 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint It seems like I've seen this in one of St. Roy's books. I borrowed the book from the library, so I don't have it at my disposal at the moment. But then again, to look it up would be cheating, right? :) Cheers, Alex Alan says: > This is most interesting. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item > I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the > others on the porch think the solution is. > A very interesting joint, could really make a conversation piece when > incorporated into a real project. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158125 ---- From: "Bruce Love" Date: 2006-03-12 16:55:00 Subject: RE: PATINA Sale/Auction GG who went to PATINA yesterday, I didn't make it to PATINA as, unfortunately, I had the displeasure of being home with a nasty stomach flu. So, thank you for waiting until my stomach is strong enough to handle the details of everything I missed - but now I want details! Bruce Love Feeling MUCH better in Pipersville, PA and now looking forward to the CRAFTS auction in three weeks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158126 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-12 17:05:02 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail video with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half- lap joint as well. Cheers, John aland@s... writes: Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in email. http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158127 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-12 17:12:26 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions I apologize for coming in quite late on this thread, but I've got a backlog of postings and I'm whittling away at it ... > Question. Is there any reference book, spoken word, > rule of thumb, any scrap of information available > that talks about profiles appropriate to a period? > I like Federal and Chippendale but don't know if my > moulders are appropriate. How does a galoot find > out? Pete, I haven't seen such a book, but that obviously doesn't mean it was never out there. If someone else responds and comes up with it, I'd like to know too. I'd suggest that maybe some details become obvious from reviewing some of the better books on furniture. Of the ones I have in my little library, I'll suggest the following: 1 The New Fine Points of Furniture (Sack) -- think I heard that he passed away last year, but Sack is or was a giant in the antiques trade and an infrequent guest on Antiques Roadshow providing tutorials and valuations on very high end furniture. His book is mostly photos of the worlds' best contrasted with middling stuff and then with dreck, with few details explained in closeup, but the photos are very crisp and professional and could be helpful. 2 Period Furniture Details (Bird) -- I wouldn't bother right now if you don't already have it, as it won't answer this question. Bulk of the book is devoted to how to use machinery to imitate various details found on antiques, without regard to whether they belong on what is in progress. 3 Furniture Antiques Checklist (Davison / Miller's Series out of the UK) -- This one has a couple of pages on moldings and pediments, and several more on feet, showing the types that are consistent with certain styles and periods, but lacking in the level of detail I suspect we'd really like to answer your question. Given that the book is partially intended to help in identifying fakes, this is a logical place to look. 4 Federal Furniture (Dunbar) -- an interesting book on how to make it, but only limited discussion on what details are appropriate to Federal furniture (a good book for its purpose, however). Gottshall's books, 'Making Furniture Masterpieces' and 'Making Antique Furniture Reproductions' are also resources for how to build them more than how to determine which moldings are appropriate (both are also helpful for what they are). 5 Construction of American Furniture Treasures (Margon) presents meticulous drawings of the construction of 37 fine museum pieces, including itemizing the moldings used in each via cross-sectional drawings. Names of the profiles are not provided, but if you have a reference on profiles, they can be figured out. Thus, more clues are provided in this one. The bibliography lists a pile of scholarly references, one of which may have the details you are seeking. 6 The introduction to each of the Antique Hunter's Guide series books on American Furniture (I have 'chests, cupboards, desks & other pieces' and 'tables, chairs, sofas & beds') have 1-2 page sections on each of the major periods, describing the key changes in features. Detail to the level that would answer your question isn't provided, but the reader is referred to three period books for more detail -- as follows: 7 The Gentleman and Cabinetmaker's Director (Chippendale) is a design book originally intended to help the purchaser and the craftsman define what was wanted in style of the piece to be ordered, from the London view. This one defines Chippendale style, and the American interpretation of Chippendale is generally less elaborate so the moldings would likely be a bit different. The plates in this book are very elaborate, including details of moldings. 8 After Chippendale's work came The Cabinet-Maker and Upholsterer's Guide (Hepplewhite, published by his widow) and as adapted to American tastes it defined early Federal furniture. This book includes plates of specific pediment and molding designs, with all drawings quite detailed and clear. 9 Just few years later the Cabinetmaker and Upholsterer's Drawing Book (Sheraton) came out, and defined the Sheraton style of the Federal period. I don't yet own a copy of this book, and therefore can't pull it out and comment on its details, but I expect it is similar to the other two above based upon memory of having paged through it in the past. There are several books out on Shaker furniture (I have Moser's) and probably some references on Empire styles too, but the latter does little for me and is more loaded with carved shapes than moldings. These styles were outside your period of interest anyway. Regardless, it could be that the answer to your question / quest lies in buying the last three (7, 8 & 9) references, and maybe (5), and using them in conjunction with a chart of profiles such as contained in Whelan's 'The Wooden Plane'. Last I knew, Dover Press still sold 7-9 for fairly reasonable prices, and maybe the resellers of used books would have them for even less. Dunbar's book (4) has been out of print and near impossible to find for less than a three-digit $price when I last looked for a copy to give to someone. Items 1, 3 & 6 were available at Borders (I have no idea how that translates in the UK, Jeff) or via the Borders parent Amazon.com, and likely from other book sellers as well. Margon's book is also a Dover title. Hope that helps. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158128 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-12 14:57:14 Subject: Turnings I recently acquired a pretty large supply of silk oak that has been stacked and air dried for several years. I am not giving up the location yet though because there is more there for the taking, and I ain't done yet. :>) I think there are enough 6/4 boards for me to make a bench out of. Woo Hoo! Meep Meep! This stuff turns like a dream, and I have been wanting to learn to do some turning other than spindles. I am not a pro yet by any means, but it is a lot of fun learning. http://homepage.mac.com/oldmillrat/PhotoAlbum97.html I went to a turning demonstration put on by Bonnie Klein (Well known professional turner, Jeff) yesterday and learned a few things. Managed to incorporate a couple of them this morning into the 4 wood box. Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158129 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-12 18:05:35 Subject: Working Hardwoods I have used exotic hardwoods for many of the handles I have put on knives. One of the easierst ways I have found to work them is using a file or rasp. Works great. Usually after that I have to sand for ever with the sandpaper to get out the filing scratches. On the last one I used a scraper instead of the sandpaper and it worked beautifully. So much faster than the sandpaper and a nicer finish too. Went to bed during a nice thunderstorm last night. Woke up this morning and got to shop vac all the rainwater from out of the basement workshop. Luckily it didn't get over to the workshop portion. No damage to anything important. Gotta get that fixed. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158130 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-12 18:34:41 Subject: The Road To Damascus - Finale Well I'm back. Do to technical difficulties I wasn't I wasn't able to get back online till I got back to the shop. The short version? I walked, I talked, I bought & I sold. The long version, well we got there around 5:15 AM, got a right fine parking spot on by the building for unloading later and hit the tailgating. Now for all I have to do it, I hate flashlight shopping. But I do it. First go round of the parking lot was reasonably productive, nothing great but I dropped some money here and there. I did spot a rather familiar looking if not somewhat ratty knit cap with a star dead center, which of course I had to pat for good luck, which it turned out to be (Todd's gonna love me for that!!) Headed back to the building and got the stuff in and kinda poured out on the table and made the rounds inside. Got a few things, then Ed from Maine who brings boxes and boxes and boxes of good stuff was getting his goodies out so I started making a pile here, first the $1 box, then the $2 box, the $3 box, etc etc. Dropped a pretty good buck there took the stuff out to the vehicle and noticed that the pile was growing at a good rate. Came back to the table and sold a couple of things during the first rush of the early bird buyers, then in the lull between the early birds and the general public, I made another round outside that was pretty productive. Then it was back to the table for a while. Saw in no particular order, Listmom Steve and his ever faithful companion SawNutz, Charlie Driggs came by for a visit, long time list member AND lurker Tom Dugan (who I actually know since the pre oldtools rec.woodworking days), Slav was there doing his thing, Anatol, of course Walt & Mary Henderson came by (Walt always brings me strange and wonderful things). I'm sure I missing a few folks but what with short term memory being in short supply these days. Now the big surprise was to finally meet Hunter Cox. Not that meeting him was a surprise, but it's kinda funny how you get an impression of someone, based on how they write and of course with a name like Hunter Cox, I had envisioned an older, distinguished type . Eh wrong. He's a pup! But we got to chat for a bit, although I don't think I think I convinced him that old rust is better than new rust.... Made another two trips out to the parking lot during the morning. The first was right productive, especially since old Todd was a yacking about 20 foot away and missed ALL the good stuff.. {evil chuckle} One of the PATINA guys counted the parking lot and there were 53 folks set up out there. All in all it was good day. They will be talking about the absolutely fantastic weather for years to come. Sales were much better than expected (something to be said for low expectations). Buying was very good. (Spent a whole lot more than I sold, but that's the name of the game I guess). Was gonna stick around a bit for the auction but decided to hit the road. Oh and Galoot Tom Graham did a great job in putting together the dealer show. Headed up to Adamstown, spent the night there. Despite the crappy weather (which seems to be a tradition) got some more goodies both outside and inside at Renningers, and a couple of things outside at the Black Angus. Now it's back to work! Tony (so many goodies..where do I start..) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158131 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-12 18:42:05 Subject: Re: Turnings Jim showed us his latest turnings. Very nice work Jim. I can see I have a long way to go to catch up to you. You know how addicting turning can be. That is why I cleaned the lathe area today and am moving on to handsaw sharpening. Now where did you sat that silk oak is? Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158132 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-12 19:24:42 Subject: Re: Moulding plane Questions Depending on the size of your municipality, these will likely be in your public library. 7 The Gentleman and Cabinetmaker's Director (Chippendale) 8 After Chippendale's work came The Cabinet-Maker and Upholsterer's Guide (Hepplewhite, published by his widow) 9 Just few years later the Cabinetmaker and Upholsterer's Drawing Book (Sheraton) Cheers, John John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158133 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-12 19:41:25 Subject: Help With Search I know that I have asked this question before but I can't find it in the archives. Can one of the search experts point me in the right direction? Looking for information on a panel saw with the etch "IMP". I thought it was a Simonds, but it may be a Disston. Any help will be greatly appreciated by this search challenged old f**t. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158134 ---- From: Michele Minch Date: 2006-03-12 20:05:26 Subject: Wright's/Jennings bit GG Picked up a double twist auger that says - inside a box with clipped corners much like the later Stanley rectangle - WRIGHT'S JENNINGS USA I am thinking that if it is marked USA it was probably made after about 1930, but by then Jennings did not need any further collaboration on making the bit that everyone wanted. What is this Wright's, then? Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158135 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-12 19:50:10 Subject: Re: Turnings GG, Jim opines' I am not a pro yet by any means, but it is a lot of fun learning. http://homepage.mac.com/oldmillrat/PhotoAlbum97.html Jim, just keep practicing...I don't think the pro's can stand the competition...nice work. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158136 ---- From: Wendy Sarrett Date: 2006-03-12 21:09:22 Subject: Weekend Making Sawdust... Well, I spent the weekend at the local "Woodcraft" in a Woodworking Fundamentals class. We made a bookshelf with a sliding edge so it can hold a variable amount of books. Notes: 1. It was pretty much power tools oriented. However the instructor did spend some time on sharpening discussing chisels and hand planes. That was extremely useful. 2. I managed to sand my finger putting a 1/2 inch cut at the tip of my left middle finger...the instructor then sanded the two small parts that needed to be sanded...I think he was conscerned I do it again to myself.. Fortunately not a deep cut...just a bandaid required. 3. My project came out looking pretty good ... but I doubt it would have come out nearly as well without the instructor's help. He helped everyone at some point but the others seemed more comfortable with power tools than I. I'm not too bad at measuring though...I was happy about that. 4. My conclusion is I really need to pick a project and do it on my own. With the time limitations and help available, the temptation for me is not to troubleshoot stuff myself as much as I should. I'm thinking a box is a good start. 5. I did find an article on getting hand planes up to snuf, bought sharpening equipment so tomorrow I'm going to see where I can get the plateglass to create lapping plate so I can tune the handplane I just received. I also hope to get to polishing the old carpenter's saws this week. On another note.I've been reading the accounts of the PATINA show...I'll have to keep it in mind for next year. Wendy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158137 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-12 21:53:24 Subject: Re: Help With Search Bill: The "IMP" was a Disston Saw made between 1914 to 1930 according to Erv Shaffers book Hand Saw Makers of North America. In the Hand Saw Catalog Collection Book, this saw came in sizes from 12" to 30" and was listed under "Special Saws Etched To Order" Bob Sturgeon. _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rittner" To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: [OldTools] Help With Search >I know that I have asked this question before but I can't find it in >the > archives. Can one of the search experts point me in the right > direction? > > Looking for information on a panel saw with the etch "IMP". I thought > it was > a Simonds, but it may be a Disston. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated by this search challenged old > f**t. > > Bill Rittner > R & B ENTERPRISES > Manchester, CT > > "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" > (unknown) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158138 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-12 18:53:29 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint aland@s... writes: > Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in > email. > > http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg On Sunday 12 March 2006 02:05 pm, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail video > with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half-lap > joint as well. John, (or other galoots) For those of us without the Kingshott video, if anyone can provide a description of how the joint is accomplished, I'd appreciate it. I was thinking that only the ends of the tail had the tips to fit into the slider, so all you would need to so is lift the back portion and push the tips out. Probably wrong about that though... -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158139 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-12 19:44:20 Subject: Re: Wright's/Jennings bit --- Michele Minch wrote: Picked up a double twist auger that says - inside a box with clipped corners much like the later Stanley rectangle - WRIGHT'S JENNINGs USA > I am thinking that if it is marked USA it was probably made after > about 1930, but by then Jennings did not need any further > collaboration on making the bit that everyone wanted. What is this > > Wright's, then? Hi Ed--- Dunno what to make of it, but I checked the MWTCA's C E Jennings 1913 catalogue reprint---didn't find any mention of Wright's Patent. Much was made in 1913's catalogue of "Steer's Patent", "McElney's Patent" "A B Jennings Patent" and Jennings's line of "Watrous" and "L"Hommedieu" augers---seems like a company that revelled in giving credit where credit was due---Wright's patent either came much before, or a little after 1913, that's my guess. Anything with that C E Jennings name is the good grits, and if it's got someone else's name too, they were probably swallowed up whole, Stanley-style in the Reconstruction era---say afer the "Civil War" and before the "Great War". If one could conduct a 'civil" war, that WOULD be great. who's your boy? GAM in Seattle How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158140 ---- From: "Walt Cheever" Date: 2006-03-12 21:49:45 Subject: Re: Yankee 41A and other push type drills Ben, Until the wise ones show up, I'll try to fill in. Try sharpening the bits. A little attention with a diamond hone turned mine from ho-hum into whee! when I made holes in things. Otherwise you have the action right. Its a tool that's hard to use wrong. Walt C Watching snow and rain alternate in spoiling my shop time. Ben wrote>>> Its time for another question for the wise folks on the list. I picked up a fairly shiny Yankee 41A at an estate sale Friday afternoon. The motion was a little jerky, but a little oiling fixed that quickly. The handle came with about a half dozen bits. These bits look more like a reamer than a drill to me, but then again I have no experience with these kinds of things. So the question is, what is the proper usage of this tool. I've put a bit in the chuck and had a go at some wood. Just a bunch of rapid compressions on the spring loaded action. It does make a nice clean hole its just a little slow going. Am I going about it right? Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158141 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-13 19:15:51 Subject: Re: boiling oil Peter Huisman writes: > To encompass this discussion into the theme of this list: I asked of some people, > some time ago, about how I might protect new jarrah reeded decking that I had laid > for our balcony. The concesus was that a mix of LSO and kero would do the trick. > Being difficult to persuade by nature, I sought the advice of those with a vested > interest in telling me the opposite of fokelore, the paint store bloke. His argument, > that the painting of a mix of kero and LSO would blacken the wood, instantly flashed > visions of actual applications I has witnessed of our wonderful Red Jarrah hardwood > rendered almost colourless and a sickly black, after treatment with the aforementioned > concoction and the passage of several months of diverse weather. > > I settled on his (pricey) recommendation and after proper application have not > had the occasion to regret the purchase. Two points: The recommendation to use kerosene with linseed oil coming, as it does, from the manufacturers of linseed oil, is not exactly out of folklore unless one ascribes to the manufacturers of the product sufficient knowledge to manufacture the stuff but little concerning its application. The application of linseed oil to unpainted exterior timber, with or without the addition of kerosene, will result in a considerable darkening of the timber due to its exposure to the elements within a fairly short time, the only perceptible difference being that the untreated oil will also permit, in sufficiently humid conditions, a nice blossom of fungus to adorn the timber. The preservation or, rather, the representation of more or less the original colour of exterior timber is the task of other agents, not linseed oil. Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158142 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-13 09:59:52 Subject: Re: So many questions Alf wrote: > Jim McVicar wrote: > >> 4. I've been looking at the Lee Valley hold down with the brass >> tightening >> knob. Has anyone bought one of these and, if so, how do you like it? > > > Bought one, oh, 5 or 6 months ago and am now wondering why I > hesitated so long. Excellent grip and the screw tightening > rather than the whack-it-wiv-a-mallet type fits my more 20thC > workshop. My one worry was that turning that knob would be > tedious and slow, but once it's slackened off and no longer > actually gripping it spins very easily and hasn't proved to > be an issue at all. Old ones also exist... http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1969 BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158143 ---- From: "greg" Date: 2006-03-13 06:10:34 Subject: Carbon tool steels My fellow Galoots, I had posted some pages from my Steel catalogbut they weren't very readible. Mr bugbear stepped forward in true galoot fashion and offered a helping hand. He retouched the pictures and it is truely amazing the difference a professional can make. Here they are....... http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3637 I know there's at least a couple of metalurgist in the group who can explain the IT Diagram much better than I. Maybe one of them will? While I had the offer of a helping hand I also posted the instructions for sharpning a graver which has been a subject of discussion lately. Hope you can use and enjoy the info, Greg Thanks again to Bugbear for his assistance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158144 ---- From: "Gary K" Date: 2006-03-13 07:11:42 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint Fashion a tail at the end of the stile, with the narrow part on the face side and the wide part on the back side. Fashion a single, blind dovetail socket in the rail. Now, plane the face of the rail, starting at the bottom edge, making the bottom thinner than the top. As you reach the bottom of the stile, you will begin to expose more of the tail, starting with the bottom of the tail. This will make it appear as if the lower end of the tail is wider than the top. The maker fashioned the joint by forming the tail and the socket at an angle, rather than planing, so the result was flat, but that just takes a little practice. Gary K Close to Buffalo NY, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan DuBoff" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Mystical Dovetail Joint > aland@s... writes: >> Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in >> email. >> >> http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg > > On Sunday 12 March 2006 02:05 pm, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: >> This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail >> video >> with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half-lap >> joint as well. > > John, (or other galoots) > > For those of us without the Kingshott video, if anyone can provide a > description of how the joint is accomplished, I'd appreciate it. > > I was thinking that only the ends of the tail had the tips to fit into > the > slider, so all you would need to so is lift the back portion and push the > tips out. Probably wrong about that though... > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration > GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158145 ---- From: Peter Robinson Date: 2006-03-13 22:12:19 Subject: C.T.Skelton Hand Saw Hello all, Today I picked up this poor old handsaw - it's my first so it's going to get some care and attention. Hopefully I'll be able to bring it back to the living, though I'm not quite sure what it was meant to be at it's inception. Here's a shot of the beast - the blade is about 25" long. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3629 The tip is an interesting shape - a sort of nib looking bump, but on the end of the blade rather than on the back. I don't have any books specifically on handsaws (yet) so I searched the web to see if I could see anything like it. Some catalog scans I spotted on the Distonnian Institute might show something similar but they were a bit too fuzzy to know for sure. Any ideas what it might be? Other than, of course, a sort of nib looking bump :-) http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3630 Now, this is an unusual medallion, the like of which, I have not seen before - it's square and has a slot engraved across the round central section. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3632 And look at those saw nuts - 4 of them looking all special. Lovely. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3633 And last but not least, I think it used to be a rip saw, but has had a secondary bevel filed on the face of each tooth, turning it into a very toothy crosscut. This shot shows the only broken tooth, and a poor view of some of what the rest look like. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3635 Yep, I'm definately going to need help reviving this old thing. Pete Mueller's split nut tutorial sure was timely - but now I find myself in need of a set of taps and dies to help in this resurrection, or perhaps I should just build a pine box and bury the poor thing in the back yard. Is it worth the effort? -- Peter Robinson, Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158146 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-13 07:42:47 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint Alan DuBoff wrote: >aland@s... writes: > > Here's another interesting one, from the same guy, which he sent me in > > email. > > http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/another_interesting_dovetail.jpg >Sgt42RHR@a... wrote: > > This is very similar to the one that Jim Kingshott ends is dovetail video > > with, although on the opposite side of the dovetail, he has a half-lap > > joint as well. [...] >For those of us without the Kingshott video, if anyone can provide a >description of how the joint is accomplished, I'd appreciate it. Alan, it's a bit hard to explain properly without pictures, (which, alas, I can't do) but, very roughly, the back of the tail is cut at an angle. So as the tail is pushed in from the top, it slide forward as it slides down. However, that said, if anyone has St Roy's _Woodwright's Apprentice_, he shows how to make the joint --and actually uses it!!-- in Chapt 9, on the "Standing Embroidery Hoop". N P.S. I've also seen a variant of this in which there is what appears to a standard lap joint on the back side of the horizontal piece (i.e. more or less "parallel" to the "impossi-tail" joint.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158147 ---- From: Nichael Cramer Date: 2006-03-13 08:02:22 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint James Thompson wrote: >Alan DuBoff wrote: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item >I have watched St. Roy cut this joint. It is cut on a diagonal to the >flats, and is put together the same way. Simple when you see him do it. One whittling book I have uses the following technique: 1] Start with two, square pieces of wood. 2] Cut two regular through dovetails, paralllel from front to back. Sort of like the following, when viewed from the end: (if you'll excuse the ASCII-art): OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO OOOXXXOOOXXXOOO 3] Finally, plane off the corners, at 45dgs, until you get down to a diamond shape (the resulting piece, of course, should be square in cross-section). A bit wasteful of material. But I thought it was an interesting approach. You end up with an identical "puzzle", and it might be easier to cut the dovetails in this way. N ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158148 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-13 08:11:14 Subject: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Hi gang, Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make some raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something fairly simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The sides will be morticed in to the corners (or maybe just grooved), and the 4x4s will be somewhat rounded on the edges (old tools is what will be used for the mortice/grooves, and rounding). So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? I hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was thinking white cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up to the weight of the dirt pushing out without developing major bows. While looks aren't that important, I'd rather avoid things like railroad ties or landscape timbers, and of course (being a Cheap Yankee Bastuhd), I'd prefer to keep things fairly inexpensive. I suppose I could just use some sort of generic rough lumber from the local sawmill (probably oak), but I'm worried about the rough stuff throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the garden all summer long). While it would be great to be able to do something like teak or mahogany, this is really meant to be functional....... Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated - especially if you've done something like this before, and can report on the durability..... Thanks --JD ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158149 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-13 08:50:37 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with At 08:11 AM 3/13/2006, James DuPrie wrote: >So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? If you can get it at a reasonable price cedar would be the way to go. (I'm working on the assumption here that these are going to be ongoing and not a once and done project.) Any wood is going to bow a bit, if not from the weight, then from the moisture. Even if you have to do some exterior staking, few on each side (like a 2x2 piece, 1 at the center of the ends and 2 along each side), that will pretty much keep things together nicely. The cat's meow and would probably outlast all off us put together would be black locust. I used to be able to get 8", 10" would be tricky. I think that sawmill is still in business but it is a bit of a ride (way down I-81 not too far from the PA/Maryland line) Oak, red or white, has about a 1 year ground contact life expectancy, if that. BTDT. Fir, pine, might last a bit a longer. The early settlers used what ever they had available. And if it needed fixing, it needed fixing. Now depending on the required esthetics of the situation, slab wood would look just great in my book. If you get some consistency in the sizes. Tony (rambling as always) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158150 ---- From: "Derek Cohen" Date: 2006-03-13 23:07:12 Subject: Re: indirect gloat and tropical hardwoods Peter Hahn wrote: > ..................................................................... I guess the question is how > do people deal with the exotic hardwoods who want to use hand tools - > how did the old guys do it? How many ways are there to smooth gnarly-grained hardwood? The following ideas are intended for smoothing face grain. (a) Some specialist planes include. (1) HNT Gordon are designed specifically with Australian hardwoods in mind. These have bevel down blades bedded at 60 degrees. One of the advantages of the HNT Gordon Smoother is that you can reverse the blade (with its 30 degree bevel) and use it as a 90 degree scraper plane. This is probably the best scraper plane I have ever used! Steve Knight also makes some wonderful woodies, but I have ot been fortunate enough to try one out. Ditto Clark & Williams. (2) Both Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley/Veritas have a range of bevel up planes. The advantage of these planes is that the bevels can be ground for high cutting angles. Some woods will respond to a 50 degree cutting angle (a bevel of 38 degrees on top of the 12 degree bed), while others require much more than this. I typically use a 62 degree cutting angle, and some go to 65 degrees. For small areas of tearout, try honing a high bevel angle on a small block plane. My Stanley #18 knucklejoint is set up with a 60 degree cutting angle to function as a mini-smoother. (3) Scraper planes, such as the Stanley #112, #12, #80, etc are very effective. Both LN and LV make versions of these. The #80 has got to be one of the easiest scraper planes to use and is nearly foolproof. Personally, I only use one for coarser work, such as removing glue lines, since I try and avoid bowed blades. My Stanley #112 uses a thick LN blade (not the standard LN blade but one made for Stanley) and this is set up without a burr. It takes a little time to learn how to adjust the blade on this plane, but it can produce wonderful results. (b) Adapting Stanley planes. Stanley bench planes have a 45 degree bed, and this is too low for gnarly hardwoods. The solution is to raise the cutting angle by honing a backbevel on the blade. A 5 degree backbevel will create a 50 degree cutting angle, and a 15 degree backbevel will create a 60 degree backbevel. (c) Planing techniques. Use the circular planing method. This involves planing in circles using very light setting. A bit hit-and-miss. Angle the planing stroke at 45 degrees to the board (as if you were using a scrub plane). Angle your plane at 45 degrees to the stroke to create a skew cut. (d) Card scrapers. One of my favourite tools. It is an incredible sensation to feel the shavings peel away from a simple piece of steel plate. For small sections of tearout, push the scraper away from yourself. This will bow the blade and plane a slight hollow in the surface. For smoothing, I only pull the scraper towards myself since this will tend to keep it flat and avoid the hollowing out. I especially like using the short ends of card scraper blades since these are stiffer. For small sections of smoothing, trying scraoing with a reversed sharp chisel or plane blade. No burr needed. Any other methods or ideas? Regards from Perth Derek Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158151 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-13 08:47:54 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Much as I love wood Outside, uncovered, in direct contact with the ground......every wood is a heartbreak Cement or stone is the only lasting answer. Doesnt; have to be plain jane looking though. Some scrap wood for a form and a little imagination =..................... Stairs http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/step4.jpg Pier blocks (ok a bit more work for thsi mold but you only have to do it once to get all you need) http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/finished.jpg yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158152 ---- From: Dianne and Steve Noe Date: 2006-03-13 11:55:40 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT On Mar 13, 2006, at 8:11 AM, James DuPrie wrote: > Hi gang, > > Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make > some > raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something > fairly > simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. > Don't get fancy, unless this is for SWMBO's esthetic sense. Just use cheap, plain 2x lumber from a Borg, and plan on replacing the stuff as it rots. That's what we use, and they last about 4 years before the stuff crumbles. Heck, if you work it right, you can mulch it into the compost pile without too much trouble. Steve Noe, in Indianapolis dandsnoe@m... Juicy red meat is not bad for you... Fuzzy green meat, now THAT’S bad for you! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158153 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-13 09:15:02 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with On 13 Mar 2006 at 8:11, James DuPrie wrote: > So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? I > hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was thinking white > cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up to the weight of the > dirt pushing out without developing major bows. While looks aren't that > important, I'd rather avoid things like railroad ties or landscape timbers, > and of course (being a Cheap Yankee Bastuhd), I'd prefer to keep things > fairly inexpensive. I suppose I could just use some sort of generic rough > lumber from the local sawmill (probably oak), but I'm worried about the > rough stuff throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the > garden all summer long). While it would be great to be able to do something > like teak or mahogany, this is really meant to be functional....... I use redwood for stuff like this, since 1 x 10 con heart is cheap in these parts. Of course, I understand it's more expensive where it doesn't grow. I've got beds that are three years old now, no sign of deterioration and warping is not too bad despite constant contact with dirt. Oh, and I dovetail the corners (but not by hand). -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158154 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-13 17:25:35 Subject: drawer bottom grooving plane http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6260603237&ss- PageName=STRK:MEWA:IT It is interesting that while 3 blade widths are available, and that there is a fence of the "moving fillister" style, there does not appear to be a depth stop. A surprising omission on what appears to be a "state of the art" dedicated tool. (price was quite high, I thought) BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158155 ---- From: James Thompson Date: 2006-03-13 09:17:54 Subject: strange emails OT Forgive the bandwidth use, but this might be of interest. I keep getting what look like ebay messages from buyers asking me if I have sold my item yet. I don't have any items for sale, and don't expect to. I don't answer these things because I suspect something is not right. One might be a mistake, but I have now received 5 of them. Anybody else getting these? Is this some kind of new scam? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158156 ---- From: Isaac Howard Date: 2006-03-13 12:48:37 Subject: RE: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT >>Hi gang, >> >>Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make some >>raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something fairly >>simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The sides >>will be Well I ended up using 4x4 redwood from Home Depot and it's still going on about 9 years and hasn't rotted out yet. Course YMMV. The beds we made were 4'x8'x12" deep, albiet they did cost around $100 a box to make, I'm very lazy when it comes to remaking stuff that I garden in year after year. We bored a 3 holes in each corner and then smashed a piece of rebar into the holes with a sledge, really it was alot of fun. After making 8 of them for us and the MIL, it wasn't alot of fun, but they are all still there and will never be moving. However we have moved since then and when we go to make new boxes, we will be using 2x8's for 16 inches deep and hopefully less work :) Hope that helps. OT content: Sledge and sweat. Isaac Howard "You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, "My God, you're right! I never would've thought of that!" Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158157 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-13 12:57:44 Subject: Re: strange emails OT scam is right, If you've ever bought or sold on Ebay, they will try this. If you follow the link the give carefully, you end up at a non-ebay cleverly spoofed site, trying to get your paypal account information and/or Ebay information. tim James Thompson Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/13/2006 12:17 PM To oldtools cc Subject [OldTools] strange emails OT Forgive the bandwidth use, but this might be of interest. I keep getting what look like ebay messages from buyers asking me if I have sold my item yet. I don't have any items for sale, and don't expect to. I don't answer these things because I suspect something is not right. One might be a mistake, but I have now received 5 of them. Anybody else getting these? Is this some kind of new scam? Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158158 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-13 12:58:03 Subject: RE: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with Why not? How 'bout just cutting grooves for the ends of the boards to sit in? I think there's got to be something to keep the ends of the boards from blowing out...... --JD -----Original Message----- From: Gary K [mailto:gtgrouch@r...] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:49 PM To: James DuPrie Subject: Re: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT content.... redwood dont use mortises, damhikt gary k ----- Original Message ----- From: "James DuPrie" To: "oldtools" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT content.... > Hi gang, > > Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make some > raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something fairly > simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The sides will > be > morticed in to the corners (or maybe just grooved), and the 4x4s will be > somewhat rounded on the edges (old tools is what will be used for the > mortice/grooves, and rounding). > > So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? I > hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was thinking > white > cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up to the weight of the > dirt pushing out without developing major bows. While looks aren't that > important, I'd rather avoid things like railroad ties or landscape > timbers, > and of course (being a Cheap Yankee Bastuhd), I'd prefer to keep things > fairly inexpensive. I suppose I could just use some sort of generic rough > lumber from the local sawmill (probably oak), but I'm worried about the > rough stuff throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the > garden all summer long). While it would be great to be able to do > something > like teak or mahogany, this is really meant to be functional....... > > Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated - especially if you've done > something like this before, and can report on the durability..... > > > Thanks > --JD > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158159 ---- From: "James DuPrie" Date: 2006-03-13 12:59:12 Subject: how 'bout ash? RE: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed Its cheap and local, but I don't know how it holds up outside.... -_JD -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Seo [mailto:tonyseo@m...] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:51 AM To: James DuPrie; oldtools Subject: Re: [OldTools] what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT content.... At 08:11 AM 3/13/2006, James DuPrie wrote: >So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised beds? If you can get it at a reasonable price cedar would be the way to go. (I'm working on the assumption here that these are going to be ongoing and not a once and done project.) Any wood is going to bow a bit, if not from the weight, then from the moisture. Even if you have to do some exterior staking, few on each side (like a 2x2 piece, 1 at the center of the ends and 2 along each side), that will pretty much keep things together nicely. The cat's meow and would probably outlast all off us put together would be black locust. I used to be able to get 8", 10" would be tricky. I think that sawmill is still in business but it is a bit of a ride (way down I-81 not too far from the PA/Maryland line) Oak, red or white, has about a 1 year ground contact life expectancy, if that. BTDT. Fir, pine, might last a bit a longer. The early settlers used what ever they had available. And if it needed fixing, it needed fixing. Now depending on the required esthetics of the situation, slab wood would look just great in my book. If you get some consistency in the sizes. Tony (rambling as always) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158160 ---- From: Kirk Eppler Date: 2006-03-13 10:01:47 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? Ken Greenberg wrote: >I use redwood for stuff like this, since 1 x 10 con heart is cheap in >these parts. Of course, I understand it's more expensive where it >doesn't grow. I've got beds that are three years old now, no sign of >deterioration and warping is not too bad despite constant contact >with dirt. > I'll agree with the Honorable Mr Greenberg here. My yard has raised beds made of redwood that were rumored to be 10 years old when I moved in 2 years ago. Starting to die now, so may pull 1 or 2 down and rebuild them. I wouldn't do PT near anything you plan on touching or eating vegetable from. OK for Deck piers and such, but I wasn';t thrilled with it as a swingset structure. Mine aren't dovetailed or morticed, but lots of nails were sacrificed in an effort to keep them together. -- Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, where gardening will start if the rain and hail ever stop. Had snow on the ridge between me and Mr Murman in Redwood city Friday night. Process Development Engineering Eppler.Kirk@g... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158161 ---- From: "Mike Wenzloff" Date: 2006-03-13 10:03:45 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane BB stated... > A surprising omission on what appears to > be a "state of the art" dedicated tool. > > (price was quite high, I thought) Yes, and it looks like someone whittled down the wedge as well. While I would like to find one for less than the $50+ US that one cost, I would like a plow of that type one day and looks like I'll need to make one as too many go for about that whenever I look. I will just need to find some reasonable costing plow irons. Take care, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158162 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 02:08:35 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Monday 13 March 2006 04:42 am, Nichael Cramer wrote: > Alan, it's a bit hard to explain properly without pictures, Thanks for your help, Don McConnell was gracious enough to send a diagram from a book dating back to 1901 which described it. Richard Bitmead's "Cabinet Makers' Guide" was the text. The Double-Dovetail joint. Even with the diagram it was confusing at best to understand, but luckily Don did try to explain it himself, which clicked the light on in my head. The key to understanding the joint is that the thickness of the stock is thinner at the wide end of the tail, than it is at the narrow end. The socket width is the same from front to back as it must accomodate the full width of the tail, and the socket is angled up, like a ramp, so that the tail pushes up as the tail pushes in. This allows the tail to be inserted and become flush with the surface, locking the joint together. What a facinating joint! I must cut one! I have placed the diagram on my server, and here's a link to it. http://www.softorchestra.com/images/dbldvtl.gif Here is the somewhat confusing text which accompanies the diagram in Bitmead's book: (thanks to Don for typing it in) As you read it, remember that the bottom diagram is inverted to show the width of the socket. What you can't see is how Don described the ramp, where the depth of the socket is thicker at the bottom than it is at the top, that is not clear at all in Bitmead's description or the diagram. Knowing that, and reading this about 4 or 5 times got me to realize how that relates to the 1/4 of the stock vs 3/4 of the stock (which forms the angled ramp to lock it in place). ****************** "The Double Dovetail is seldom brought into practical use for cabinet work, as it is not much known; but it would be found to be of use in a number of cases, instead of the mortise and tenon. Fig. 8 represents it finished, Fig. 9 as taken asunder. The socket in the Fig. 9 is inverted, for the better display of its form, and so that its construction may be more easily seen. "The socket is made thus: upon the entering-side a gauge-draught is run at three-fourths the depth, and upon the outside, opposite, at one-fourth, which determines the bottom of the socket; then the full width of the dovtail-pin is marked off upon both sides of the bottom of the gauge-marks, and a bevel set so as to narrow it to the surface in dovetain form on each side; then, from the marks on each side, make a mark across the surface, then cut the sides and chip out the socket, the bottom of which is a parallelogram. The same measures are then taken upon the dovetail-pin, and cut outside the marks. "The principal advantages of the double dovetail are these: first, it can be fitted much more nicely and expeditiously than the mortise and tenon; second, the dovetail-pin is strongest at the neck, where most strength is required; third, against a direct pull it acts as a dovetail; and fourth, though this is of little consequence, it can be made and shown as a puzzle. When neatly done, it seems almost impossible to put it togethr or take it apart. It should be made with a light and dark wood, and glued together; if put together dry, it will be easily taken aprt, and the secret discovered." ***************** -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158163 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 02:19:34 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness? This double dovetail is a most facinating joint, which only a true galoot could come up with. Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE (always in search of new joinery techniques;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158164 ---- From: "Bob Sturgeon" Date: 2006-03-13 13:27:13 Subject: Re: strange emails OT Jim: While back you said you might want to sell that Disston 112 Saw that you picked up. I wonder if these are messages from Old Tool List members thinking you were going sell it on ebay? Were the messages coming from Old Tool List or was ebay mentioned in the messages? Was this the item they were referring to? If you have an ebay account, you can look in your recent messages and if that's were they came from they should be listed there also. Of course somebody would have to know who you were on ebay. Bob Sturgeon. _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Thompson" To: "oldtools" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: [OldTools] strange emails OT > Forgive the bandwidth use, but this might be of interest. > > I keep getting what look like ebay messages from buyers asking me if I > have sold my item yet. I don't have any items for sale, and don't > expect to. I don't answer these things because I suspect something is > not right. > > One might be a mistake, but I have now received 5 of them. Anybody > else getting these? Is this some kind of new scam? > > Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158165 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-13 10:30:38 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane On 13 Mar 2006 at 10:03, Mike Wenzloff wrote: > > While I would like to find one for less than the $50+ US that one > cost, I would like a plow of that type one day and looks like I'll > need to make one as too many go for about that whenever I look. I will > just need to find some reasonable costing plow irons. It is a fascinating little plane - I had no idea that they made something like that in wood. As BugBear pointed out, the lack of a depth stop makes it not quite as useful as my Record 043. Still, wooden planes are awfully pretty. If you look at the irons that come with the Record, they are seriously primitive and could easily be made from a hunk of O1 tool steel. It ought to be possible to design a wooden plane around such irons, you would just make them longer to stick out past the wedge. The issue might be that plow irons traditionally have a groove in the back to "lock" them to the skate. You could certainly create such a groove in mild tool steel, I think. But perhaps this is not quite so necessary as we think if small irons are to be used. After all, the irons for metal plows seem to get by without them. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158166 ---- From: Timothy A Collins Date: 2006-03-13 13:29:05 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) What about "the one with...." 2 blocks of wood joined with what appears to be dovetails all around...made by cutting several sliding dovetails at 45degrees to the length of the block ("tails" in one and "pins" on the other) and sliding them together----when the blocks are lined up, looks like you have cut impossible dovetails all around the 2. tim raleigh nc Alan DuBoff Sent by: oldtools-bounces@r... 03/13/2006 05:19 AM Please respond to Alan DuBoff To oldtools@r... cc Subject Re: [OldTools] Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness? This double dovetail is a most facinating joint, which only a true galoot could come up with. Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE (always in search of new joinery techniques;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158167 ---- From: Anthony Seo Date: 2006-03-13 13:37:14 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) At 05:19 AM 3/13/2006, Alan DuBoff wrote: >Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I >have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness? > >This double dovetail is a most facinating joint, which only a true galoot >could come up with. > >Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? There is a book Puzzles In Wood by E.M. Wyatt that has all this kind of neat stuff. It was published a while ago but has been reprinted a number of times. (Don't even waste yer time with Amazon.... the cheapest used copy there was like $50. Tony (work...work, yeah I do it sometimes!) Olde River Hard Goods 350 West Catawissa Street Nesquehoning PA 18240 570-669-9421 The best old tool store in Pennsylvania! http://www.oldetoolshop.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158168 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-13 13:38:51 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Alan asks: > Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? What about the dovetailed mallet that St Roy makes, or the single-board bookstand that he also makes? I've seen him do both and even made a bookstand myself, as have others here on the porch. I think Tom Holloway has a pic of his on GIC. Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland where normal joinery I've made that actually fits is "mystery joinery" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158169 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-13 11:48:54 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On 13 Mar., Alan DuBoff wrote: > > Anyone have any other joinery that can rival this double dovetail? I think someone earlier mentioned a discussion of "puzzle" joints in one of the Woodwright's books. There also was an episode (#2502) in last year's season devoted to wooden puzzles. I can't remember the details, but I think St. Roy showed the how-to's for three different puzzles. Doesn't look like it's on video yet, at least I didn't see it on the PBS website. Norm in Fort Collins, CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158170 ---- From: Bill Kasper Date: 2006-03-13 10:49:45 Subject: scraping douglas fir i had our mantel milled to near-size this weekend using unmentionable means, but it still needed a fair bit of cleaning up. so last night i pulled out the sw #7 (nice old stanley jointer plane, jeff) and the sw #12 (same, but a scraper plane, loaded with a hock blade to preserve the original sw blade), and proceeded to make it look nice. the beam i cut up has the grain going from nearly vertical to nearly horizontal in the same piece. on the "bottom" of the mantle (the inside of the tree) the flatter-sawn (horizontal) half had lots of splintery curls that were creating problems, and the angle of the nearly-vertical grain made the edges of that grain easy to sliver off. so i put the scraper at a fine set, and had to the beam. eventually i got it so i could run my hands in the four directions and not raise a splinter...or not much, or often (the fir is 3.5" thick, cut to 12" wide, and 5' long). the surface is not *flat*, but it is a nice, smooth texture and not splintery. i then started working on the long-grain sides, both of which have the long, fine grain pattern associated with old-growth doug fir. the back is essentially quartersawn, and will not be seen; even though it's beautiful, the front has more character due to a couple of small reversals and the wood surrounding a knot (the only knot on the entire piece, visible on the bottom, but only as grain swirls on the top and a bit of knot on the front). as such, i used it to experiment how to get it smooth. i started out scraping using the most acute angle i could get between the scraper and the wood, and then played with it. i got it smooth, but not smooooooth. i want smooooooth for the front, but was satisfied with it for the back. the front has the grain coming to face on a 45deg angle upwards (angling from the front up to the top) but still appears quartersawn. lots of rings/inch on this end, more than on the other because of the angle and because the growth here was closer. i decided, because it was a bit rougher than the back, to start with the #7 and get it all planed smooth, which worked just fine until i hit the grain reversals and the knot, which led to some small tearout. after recovering from the cringing, i put the scraper to use on a higher angle, and got it smooth all along the front. i was getting beautiful shavings, but around the knot and the reversals the grain was not cleaning up too well. i lowered the angle and it worked better, giving me smooooooth along the length of the front except where i'd had the tearout. that got better, but not as good as i wanted it. so i decided to try hand-scraping, and had the epiphany. i pulled the blade out of the #12, and held it so it was the thickness of a finger above the wood at the top of the blade while in contact at the hooked-edge. and pulled. and suddenly half my tearout was gone, and the surface was nearly like glass. i spent the next 20 or so minutes working the tearout from all needed directions, and got 95% of it gone and the surface beautiful. i then used the same low, low angle on the rest of the front, and got a smoooooooooooooooooth, glassy surface. i am thrilled! tonight i'll work on the top, bringing it to smooth and smoooooother, then i'll cut the ends off with a handsaw (either my atkins or my d-23) and smooth it with a block plane; then all edges will be relieved, one way or another. once the builders mortise the back (about 4' long, 1.75" wide, 5.5" deep, for mounting on a 2x6 braced into the studs) i'll double-check everything for smoothness, then use blo and wiped-on blond shellac for the finish. i didn't get pictures of the unadulterated joist, but i gave a 40" chunk to matt (the bass luthier across the street) and i don't think he's done anything to it yet. if i can i'll put up before and after pics... if you're ever going to scrape old-growth douglas fir, go as low angle as you can! best, and thanks to all assembled for all the advice. bill felton, ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158171 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 02:52:28 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 10:29 am, Timothy A Collins wrote: > What about "the one with...." 2 blocks of wood joined with what appears to > be dovetails all around...made by cutting several sliding dovetails at > 45degrees to the length of the block ("tails" in one and "pins" on the > other) and sliding them together----when the blocks are lined up, looks > like you have cut impossible dovetails all around the 2. That one is done how I suspected, and how others described here. Essentially there are 2 sliding dovetails that run between the adjoining sides, so the pieces slide in from the angle. The faces give the illusion that the dovetail is straight, but they run at angles to the adjoining side. I'm not exactly clear where that joint would become useful, unless one had to extend a leg, otherwise a solid piece should most likely prevail for me. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158172 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 03:07:30 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 10:37 am, Anthony Seo wrote: > There is a book Puzzles In Wood by E.M. Wyatt that has all this kind > of neat stuff. It was published a while ago but has been reprinted a > number of times. (Don't even waste yer time with Amazon.... the > cheapest used copy there was like $50. Tony, Thanks, I see that book and vaguely remember folks talking about it. There's a newer edition for $9, I think I'll get that. > Tony (work...work, yeah I do it sometimes!) Me too! But usually not until about 2:00pm...;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158173 ---- From: Isaac Howard Date: 2006-03-13 14:27:36 Subject: Re: RE: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Sorry, the less work was in reference to using the beds, with 12 inches it was sitting on the side with my legs off at an angle to do stuff in the beds, or slightly bent over to dig them up/out. I think that about 4 more inches will mean less work when digging them out and a little more comfortable when sitting on the sides and weeding. Shovel...yeah that's an old tool. Isaac Howard > how hopefully less work? deeper beds= less work? > > thanks. > bill > felton, ca > planning two flights of 2x6s dovetailed together, with a rebated join > between flights. > > On Mar 13, 2006, at 9:48 AM, Isaac Howard wrote: > >> However we have moved since then and when we go to make new boxes, >> we will >> be using 2x8's for 16 inches deep and hopefully less work :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158174 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-13 14:35:22 Subject: GIT Sculpture... Gentle Galoots, I had the GIT out in the shop with me this saturday. Its been a while since she's been out there but she liked the new shop stool with the semi saddled seat. She wanted to try using the BIG firmer gouge to do a little hollowing herself, but the mallet/gouge interaction was giving her some trouble. Pulled out the much smaller Two Cherries gouges and put the stool leg in the vise and my six year old spent a good 40 minutes making little grooves in the softwood of the seat, while daddy drilled into her the mantra *hands behind the sharp part*. After that, she went back to the shop activity that's kept her busy since she was two, building sculpture out of scraps. While she was doing that, I sawed a chunk of padouk on the Velocipede for an intarsia experiment and planed it flat, generating big chunky shavings in that bright orange red that padouk is known for, getting it down to an eighth of an inch to match the maple and pine that will also be a part of the intarsia. Then taped the three pieces together and planed the edges to get them all the same width, tossing those shavings onto the bench as well. When I turn around, my GIT has created the most symetrical and thought out sculpture she's done to date. Called Spaghetti and Meatballs, this one is a keeper. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3643 Michael-San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158175 ---- From: "Jason Knight" Date: 2006-03-13 15:09:52 Subject: Re: GIT Sculpture... Whew! How old is the GIT? I spent some quality time with the 3 year old this weekend. I was planing some pieces of trim work, GIT was using his shovel to scoop up the shavings, I wasn't looking and he hooked the shovel on something, forced it free, and whallopped the dickens out of my finger. I actually don't know if he whallopped the dickens out of it, but he did whallop some blood and some unfortunate vocabulary out of me. I'm not sure we're ready for edge tools yet, but he's a big fan of the egg beater drill. I picked up another last week at the liberty tools season opening sale, partly to be a beginning of the GIT toolbox. Nothing particularly gloat worthy from the tool sale, other than a swmbo who gave me a gift certificate for old tools and a 3 year old GIT who put up with an amazingly crowded shop (both people and tools) for over an hour as daddy wandered around in a daze. For those that may be curious, $50 got me 2 rabbet planes (1" and 1.5"), the egg beater, a draw knife, and two chisels (3/4" looks hand forged, mushroomed socket, and 5/8" , crummy handle, but blade and socket look good). None of it looks to be much beyond user quality, but that's what I need. Jason ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158176 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 04:26:08 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 10:38 am, Rodgers Charles wrote: > What about the dovetailed mallet that St Roy makes, or the single-board > bookstand that he also makes? I've seen him do both and even made a > bookstand myself, as have others here on the porch. I think Tom > Holloway has a pic of his on GIC. I searched around Tom's page on GIC, and see the bookstand which looks nice, but didn't see the dovetailed mallet. Does anyone have a pic of Goy Roy's dovetail mallet? > Charlie Rodgers > Clinton, Maryland where normal joinery I've made that actually fits is > "mystery joinery" You're not alone Charlie!;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158177 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-13 15:46:54 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Alan asks: > Does anyone have a pic of Goy Roy's dovetail mallet? As a matter of fact, yes. Chris's wonderful archives yields: Brian Buckner's messsage #122680 points us to the www.ilovewood.com website. Select Alburnum's Archives, then #58 (puzzle mallet). Charlie Rodgers Clinton, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158178 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-13 15:57:46 Subject: Mystical Dovetail This joint is in St Roy's book. It is also used on many crafts at places like Berea KY. I made it a few times. Easier than it looks. The dovetails go on an angle. The two pieces slide apart from the corners not from the middle. Easier to do than describe. Draw a pin or tail on each side of the piece. Then connect the two on adjacent sides together across the end. I tried to sho people but nobody knew how a single dovetail worked enough to get the trick of it. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158179 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-13 15:49:03 Subject: Good News Bad Andy has good news! The flooding stopped just one inch from the workbench. (Seriously). The only thing damaged was a pine board that was one of those really wide ones you buy that is glued up from three smaller ones. It is now two boards not one. The oak for the new bench legs managed to stay dry and all toolboxes, chests, etc. What a mess. I got to get this fixed. It was a beautiful thunderstorm though. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158180 ---- From: "Blake Ashley" Date: 2006-03-13 14:01:11 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) Alan asks: "Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness?" I seem to recall a weird box joint illustrated in FWW that appeared to be impossible to assemble or dissassemble. They had a whole article on it. I think they attributed it to the Japanese. I'll see if I can find it when I get home tonight. Blake ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158181 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-13 16:07:58 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane Paul When I picked up one of these Marples planes a year or so ago, I too thought it was a drawer bottom plane. But alas, no. The Buck & Hickman catalog of 1953 lists this is a grooving plane, to be paired with a separate purchase tongue plane for the mundane tongue & groove joints. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3648 you'll notice that the image is upside down. I uploaded it in both rightside up and upside down versions and for some reason, it insists on appearing upside down. Who am I to argue with a digital image? Anyone in Australia will be able to view this correctly. Gary On Mar 13, 2006, at 12:25 PM, paul womack wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&rd=1&item=6260603237&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT > > It is interesting that while 3 blade widths are available, > and that there is a fence of the "moving fillister" style, > there does not appear to be a depth stop. > > A surprising omission on what appears to > be a "state of the art" dedicated tool. > > (price was quite high, I thought) > > BugBear > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To read the FAQ: > http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158182 ---- From: "Andy Baughn" Date: 2006-03-13 16:19:47 Subject: Raised Garden Bed I have Alex Bealers Bood "Old Ways Of Working Wood" In it he talks about how they used to make fence posts. He lists some good fence post wood. Yellow Locust, Cedar, Cypress, Post Oak, Chestnut, Chestnut Oak. He said Locust, Cedar, and CHestnut could last 75 to 100 years. I think they might have charred the ends before putting them in the ground. Bad Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158183 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 05:22:47 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 12:46 pm, Rodgers Charles wrote: > Alan asks: > > Does anyone have a pic of Goy Roy's dovetail mallet? > > As a matter of fact, yes. Chris's wonderful archives yields: > > Brian Buckner's messsage #122680 points us to the > www.ilovewood.com website. Select Alburnum's Archives, then > #58 (puzzle mallet). > Charlie Rodgers > Clinton, Maryland Yes, thank you! This looks like a project for the future. That has a very high coolness factor attached to it.;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158184 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 05:26:42 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) On Monday 13 March 2006 01:01 pm, Blake Ashley wrote: > I seem to recall a weird box joint illustrated in FWW that appeared to > be impossible to assemble or dissassemble. They had a whole article on > it. I think they attributed it to the Japanese. I'll see if I can find > it when I get home tonight. Please do post if you have any info on it. This has turned into a great thread for me, thanks to everyone on the porch for offering info on some of these joints. I am certainly facinated with joinery, and have been for quite some time. I'm just catching up with some of you other galoots, so thanks to all that offered info and advice, much appreciated. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158185 ---- From: "Bill Rittner" Date: 2006-03-13 17:41:49 Subject: Re: Help With Search Many thanks to all who supplied the info on the "IMP". One of these saws will be the subject of my first foray into handsaw sharpening. Not having much value and not in great condition it is the perfect subject for this purpose. Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT "Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive!" (unknown) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158186 ---- From: Thomas Conroy Date: 2006-03-13 14:59:59 Subject: Re: Wooden Rabbet/Rebate planes John Edwards raised the question of what wooden rabbet planes were meant for. I can't speak to that directly, but I can say what I have found them to be indispensible for. Though its maybe a little arcane. In making one style of bookbinder's finishing press there is a step where I have to clear an area roughly 9" long and 5" wide. The sides are open, but at the ends are triangular walls about 1-2" high. (The whole surface is on a 45% slant, but that isn't a problem, you just hold the whole piece at 45%). A while back Michael (NickNaylor) was good enough to post some photos for me, including a press of this sort: http://www.members.aol.com/nicknaylo/images/conroypress2.jpg http://www.members.aol.com/nicknaylo/images/conroypress2a.jpg Its easy enough to rough this in with saws and chisels, but you try to figure out how to smooth the bottom of that area. After making a dozen or so presses by smoothing with a wide chisel, block planes slid at right angles to the axis of the plane, and lots of sandpaper, I bought a 2" (roughly) wooden skew rabbet plane that I saw in a shop window: I figured that I could slide it sideways and it wouldn't be as frustrating as the block planes. What I found was that a skew rabbet can be worked across the grain and leave a nearly finished surface, requiring nothing but a bit of work with a scraper to smooth it off. Wonderful. They are great tools and horribly underrated (Michael Dunbar says in effect "Only good for rough carpentry", but I'm here to say they are fine tools for leaving a clean finish to broad surfaces that have to be worked crossgrain). And cheap; my second one came from a $2.00 box at a Past meeting and hardly even needed sharpening (I use one for roughing down and the other for wispy smoothing). Mine don't have nickers, but I could use some: the spots that still give me trouble are the ends of my surface, right next to the walls, and the problem is that I have to try to keep ahead of the plane by continuing the wall downward in advance of the plane. And, no, metal rabbets really aren't the same animal; I can't see using a metal rabbet for final planing of a show surface, which is what I'm doing. If you aren't into making binders' presses?.... well.... I would say that they would do as good a job for panel raising as a proper panel raiser, just a bit more fuss in setting fences to run against and care not to go to deep. Anything where you have to work a big area across the grain. And cheap? Like I said, I got my second for two bucks and afterwards kicked myself for passing up another two-buck example in the same box. Real bottomfeeder's delight Tom Conroy Berkeley __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158187 ---- From: roygriggs@v... Date: 2006-03-13 17:07:23 Subject: Re: Raised Garden Bed GG, My recommendation on this one may come as a surprise to most...Osage Orange... A friend brought me a chunk of Osage with a request for me to make a pen for him from it. Upon my remark that I already had pen blanks made up from osage orange; he told me that the piece of orange he brought me was from a fence post that he had put in the ground when he was about 15 yrs. old. He had returned to the ancestral home to find the fence had been taken down and replaced, but after 50 years the posts were still in good shape. And so it was, the piece was well dried but otherwise showed no deteriation once the outside 1/4" or so was removed. Roy Griggs roygriggs@v... www.shavingsandsawdust.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158188 ---- From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: 2006-03-13 18:18:28 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? Gary asks .. > The next part of the question then is: what, if any, > was the status of the US economy between 1902 and > 1914? Was inflation flat or where there changes? > I'll have to log in to some databases I have access > to and see if there is anything that I can turn up > on that time period. Well, this source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi comes up with: What cost $100 in 1902 would cost $118.72 in 1914. Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1914 and 1902, they would cost you $100 and $84.23 respectively. Which merely suggests that Chapin-Stephens either achieved 18% productivity improvement over the period to hold prices constant, or they ran themselves out of business over time. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158189 ---- From: Kyle Accardi Date: 2006-03-13 15:33:03 Subject: WTB 1/2" cutter for Stanley #50 Found a new store today... Picked up a Stanley SW #10-1/2 (jack rabbit). Very nice, save the owner's driver's license number dimpled into the cheek. S/he also did a little light grinding of the top edges of the body casting presumably to knock down the sharp edges. A 12" #25 bevel. I have a weakness for those things. Also a late-model (nearly) complete Stanley #50 IOB, used-once but not before losing the 1/4" plow cutter. I thought Stanley was still making this plane under part number 12-050, but it seems to missing from their site now. St. James Bay Tool Co. web server seems to be taking a dirt nap. Anyone have a lead on this cutter? Oh yeah, and a brass spittoon. A good day in tool land. Cheers, Kyle Accardi Banks, Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158190 ---- From: Steve Reynolds Date: 2006-03-13 18:35:13 Subject: FS: Cheap Chisels A bunch of chisels are being offered on Oldtools Standard Terms, details of which are found in the FAQ: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/AllChisels.jpg These chisels are in various states of condition. Some are great. Some are paint spattered, missing handles, and blunt as Todd. They are being sold as an opportunity for Oldtools Hell residents can get some old chisels and fix them up on the cheap, not as primo collector items. Buy accordingly. The first set is Stanleyish. It has a smurfy late Everlasting with the plastic handle, plus two of the No. 750 type that are not marked with the 750 number. $20 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet1.jpg The second set has three firmers (a Buck Bros, a Butcher, and a 1/4" ?) plus a beveled edge ?. I'll give right of first refusal the the gentleman from Australia who asked me to kee an eye out at PATINA for the 1/4" firmer. $20 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet2.jpg The third set consist of long firmers. One Robert Duke, one Belmont Hardware, and one Union. $20 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet3.jpg The forth set is the ugly redheaded step child of the group. One Craftsman and two Fultons. $10 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet4.jpg The fifth set is Witherbyish and pretty nice. Three Witherbys and one Stanley 750ish (not marked with the 750 number). $30 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet5.jpg Not a set. One lone Butcher framing chisel, sans handle. Butcher framers are not common. $15 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet6.jpg The last set has a nice old (but short) Douglass Mfg firmer, a Jordan - Germany, and a generic Drop Forged. $10 http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoxghh/ChiselSet7.jpg Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158191 ---- From: Norm Wood Date: 2006-03-13 16:41:11 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? On 13 Mar., Charlie Driggs wrote: > Which merely suggests that Chapin-Stephens either > achieved 18% productivity improvement over the period > to hold prices constant, or they ran themselves out of > business over time. Not necessarily I think. Even if they kept catalog prices constant, chances are they changed their discounts over time. Norm in Fort Collins, CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158192 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-13 18:59:35 Subject: Re: Chapin-Stephens billhead translation? According to the pundits: 1901-1929, Chapin - Stevens In 1901, this merged into Chapin - Stevens. Mr. Holmes continued as President, H. M. Chapin as Vice-President, Frank Chapin as Treasurer, and L C Stephens as Secretary. After 1908, and the death of Mr. Holmes, Frank Chapin became President. The firm reorganized in 1927, and dissolved in 1929. Stanley Rule and Level Co of New Britain acquired the line of rules, but did not continue making the wooden planes, which were abandoned. So within 15 years the venerable firm of Chapin-Stephens went bellyup. Of course, the market for wooden planes was disappearing about that time with Stanley R&L in ascendence. I would surmise, barring a re-reading of Ken Roberts book, that C-S managed to survive for a good many years through manufacturing volume and branding before succumbing to the rise of metallic planes. Cheers Gary On Mar 13, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Charlie Driggs wrote: > Gary asks .. >> The next part of the question then is: what, if any, was the >> status of the US economy between 1902 and 1914? Was inflation >> flat or where there changes? I'll have to log in to some >> databases I have access to and see if there is anything that I >> can turn up on that time period. > > Well, this source: > > http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi > > comes up with: > > What cost $100 in 1902 would cost $118.72 in 1914. > Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1914 and 1902, > they would cost you $100 and $84.23 respectively. > Which merely suggests that Chapin-Stephens either achieved 18% > productivity improvement over the period to hold prices constant, > or they ran themselves out of business over time. > > Charlie Driggs > > Newark DE > > ............................... Gary Roberts Dedham, MA toolemera@m... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158193 ---- From: Sgt42RHR@a... Date: 2006-03-13 19:07:37 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) tonyseo@m... writes: There is a book Puzzles In Wood by E.M. Wyatt that has all this kind of neat stuff. It was published a while ago but has been reprinted a number of times. (Don't even waste yer time with Amazon.... the cheapest used copy there was like $50. Try the 'Bay, search for "Wonders in Wood" by E.M. Wyatt (book) lots of them available for about $6.00 USD. Cheers, J~ John M. Johnston 42d Grenr. Compy. There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158194 ---- From: "Jim Bellina" Date: 2006-03-13 19:36:57 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) I saw something like this, but can't find it now. Closest I can find is a David Charlesworth article titled Twist Again about a joint that he refers to as a twisted dovetail. A magazine did a story on the dovetailed mallet in 2005, but again I can't find it. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... > [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of > Blake Ashley > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:01 PM > To: Anthony Seo; oldtools@r...; Alan DuBoff > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Mystical Dovetail Joint (Extra Credit) > > Alan asks: "Ok, now that the mysteries of the double dovetail > joint have been unfolded, I have to ask if anyone has any > joinery that rivals this joint in cleverness?" > > I seem to recall a weird box joint illustrated in FWW that > appeared to be impossible to assemble or dissassemble. They > had a whole article on it. I think they attributed it to the > Japanese. I'll see if I can find it when I get home tonight. > > Blake > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158195 ---- From: Kyle Accardi Date: 2006-03-13 16:38:54 Subject: Re: WTB 1/2" cutter for Stanley #50 Oops, subject line is wrong, I am looking for a 1/4" cutter, with grooves baby. Kyle Accardi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158196 ---- From: Date: 2006-03-13 16:50:31 Subject: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT Have been down the path -- used 2by stock and 4 by stock. 2by4 vertical and 2by4, 2by6 etc sides. 4 foot by 8 foot by whatever. The deepest is about 18 inches high and the lowest is 8 inches. I by works with a few 2by2 stakes to hold the sides in. Cedar heart-wood good for about 15 years. Pressure treated about the same. Redwood heart-wood never gets this far north. Nails never fail - wood rots first 4by4 stacked works. McFeeley now has big screws instead of rebar -- drill with brace and bit and drive the screws with a socket in the brace. I like this with a honking big brace. Lee Valley sells a kit that uses a 2by4 sill and clips with concrete side panels and a by4 top rail -- looks good and lasts a long long time. My daughter went that option. It all works - some just last longer Ken in Juneau ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158197 ---- From: "John Manners" Date: 2006-03-14 12:06:03 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil Tom Holloway writes, quoting Dave Berry: > Kerosene is also _mainly_ saturated hydrocarbons, but it's chock full > of all kinds of aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene, not to > mention generic impurities known around the chem lab by the technical > terms "brown gunk" or sh*t. One of the reasons it's so cheap is that > it costs money to refine (purify) kerosene into mineral spirits. Pure > hydrocarbons are colorless, last kerosene I saw was almost orange pink. Kerosene in Oz used to be gin-clear, no evident "brown gunk" or turdological contamination, and was quite often bought in bulk in four-gallon tins or drums, leading to the storage of small amounts for use (heating, cooking, refrigerating, lighting etc.) in bottles. Unfortunately, some persons chose to store it in clear soft-drink (soda?) bottles with the result that on more occasions than was helpful for the purposes of populating this land it was swallowed by children. A result of all this was that some years ago legislation was introduced requiring that kerosene be coloured blue. It's hard to fathom, but not long after blue kerosene appeared on the market the soft-drink manufacturers decided that what the kiddies really needed was blue lemonade. Ain't commerce wonderful? Maybe the kerosene of Oz is the equivalent of the mineral spirits of U.S., although it was always thought that the product called "Shellite" was such equivalent? Regards from Brisbane John Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158198 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-13 23:07:54 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil >Kerosene in Oz used to be gin-clear, > Here too. Or at least some vendors. Some sell vile stuff though. It's all a matter of how long you've lived here and where you buy it. Downtown Yreka, nasty stuff @$3.00 a gallon in a tin. 6 miles away in Montague, $2.00 and clear as spring water, pumped from the pump next to the gas and diesel. Bring your own container. Paint thinner you can get for $1.25 a gallon anyplace. > no evident turdological >contamination, > No matter how bad, never saw kerosene this bad!! They might be dumb in Yreka town, but they know enough not to store it under the outhouse! Yours Scott Who has trimmed many a kerosene lampwick until a full, soft even light was obtained. Try it *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158199 ---- From: Peter Huisman Date: 2006-03-14 16:56:04 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint Alan wrote in part: I think I've figured it out, but wanted to hear what some of the others on the porch think the solution is. PeterH chips in: I've just knocked up half the joint for you Al, but as you can see, it is digital only. http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3654 PeterH in Perth enjoying 32 degree warmth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158200 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 17:29:34 Subject: Re: Mystical Dovetail Joint On Tuesday 14 March 2006 12:56 am, Peter Huisman wrote: > I've just knocked up half the joint for you Al, but as you can see, it > is digital only. > > http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id Yes, exactly how I had suspected it, and others described. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say. I was thinking about this joint, and I can see a use for it if one wanted to experiment with wood tones, say a 3 piece leg with a middle section of a different wood species such as walnut and mahagony, or cherry and walnut, etc...putting that joinery between each section of the leg. Funny, the other joint, the double dovetail, is comprehended easily when accompanied with the diagram from the Woodworker's Journal which Stephen Shepherd wrote back in 2001. Thanks again to Charles Rodgers for pointing this thread to ilovewood.com, that mallet is an elegant looking joint...I'll smoke to that!;-) Oops, sorry for that politically-incorrectness... I'm very much looking forward to the puzzle book I ordered today (thanks Tony). Not sure if there's any nifty joints to incorporate into projects or not, but it sounds like a great book which I've heard others talk about previously. I got a nice treat today when a package arrived from Wenzloff & Sons, makers of custom handcrafted hand saws...Even though my wife failed to tell me when it arrived (WTF was she thinking???;-), when I opened the box I was pleasantly greeted with some nice joinery saws. I was just out cutting various woods, and these are truely exceptional tools. I'm marking out a dovetail joint now...(no, neither of the joints in this thread, but a half blind houndstooth, purple heart and hickory). Getting late so not sure if I'll get it cut tonight. -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158201 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-14 10:30:56 Subject: Card scraper for backsaw blade Dear list members, I'm planing to build some hand tools to help me in my woodworking projects. One of the things I need is a small backsaw and while doing some research I came across this: http://www.sydnassloot.com/bbuckner/saws.htm "A small, 6" backsaw. It's a copy of one made originally by Groves & Sons. This one still needs to have its teeth cut (the blade is actually a thin card scraper)." How good a solution is this, to make the blade with card scraper? Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158202 ---- From: paul womack Date: 2006-03-14 11:43:41 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane Gary Roberts wrote: > Paul > > When I picked up one of these Marples planes a year or so ago, I too > thought it was a drawer bottom plane. But alas, no. The Buck & Hickman > catalog of 1953 lists this is a grooving plane, to be paired with a > separate purchase tongue plane for the mundane tongue & groove joints. Dang. He's right, and my ignorance is revealed (and remedied, of course :-). Here's a more subtle reference from 1935 Buck & Hickman: http://www.ros- eantiquetools.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth- =actual&linkpath=http://roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebui- lderpictures/hickmanplanes2.jpg&target=tlx_new&title=Wood%20Planes http://tinyurl.com/lwd4z Page 631 lists (under Grooving or Match planes) option D, "Moving Tonguing and Grooving, with 3 pairs irons..." which is clearly what we've got here. I've never seen the moving tonguing plane, but I've seen a couple of the grooving variety. Correct names notwithstanding, does anyone (else!) think that the grooving plane may well have been used for drawer bottoms? BugBear ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158203 ---- From: gary may Date: 2006-03-14 04:31:27 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT --- scott grandstaff wrote: > Much as I love wood Outside, uncovered, in direct contact with the > ground......every wood is a heartbreak Cement or stone is the only > lasting answer. Doesnt; have to be plain jane looking though. Hi Scott--- The trick is to avoid SATURATING contact with the ground--- 4x4s wrapped in tarpaper and set in postholes with 6" of gravel at the bottom of the hole will last many years, more than I've got left---if they're not hemlock, or SPF (which is never 'F', in my experience)--- some guys say that if you fire the posts before setting them---char their outsides---that will make them last longer. I've seen it done, but have yet to see any OLD posts that were treated that way. Just last week I set a quartet of scrounged redwood 4x4 posts for my garden bed---in postholes filled with concrete, the posts're also wrapped with tarpaper and set on gravel---I fully expect them to last fifty years, or until they're razed by townhouse developers. Plus, they already lasted many years in the weather before I scrounged 'em. In my line of work, I've demolished or TLC'd many cedar and fir constructions in proper ground contact, that is to say, breathing and never immersed for long. Fence posts of fir and cedar were frequently set naked into the ground around here and they lasted for decades, the ones set with gravel underneath to prevent saturation. The locust posts lasted a long time too, but that's because they turned back into trees. I've broken my back pulling raw fir fenceposts that were destroyed by the elements above and remained pristine (relatively) underneath the earth. When rebuilding the Cedar River waterway in the 80's---that's Seattle's main water source---immense pipes made of hollowed Red Cedar logs were discovered still in use, wooden pipes that had been buried underground on gravel beds and had been carrying water for close on 100 years...while remodeling my bathroom this past few weeks, I discovered a ton of rot inside the wall---water had been collecting from a bad shower enclosure and rotting along the nailers at the rim of the tub. But in the window, where shower water was gathered by the stool ('stool' meaning: the "sill" inside the sash--the true sill's a single piece of wood draining to the outside of the house---it's the bottom of the window's case and roofs the entire wall below) to deliver the shower overspray to the rotten part---where all that damaging water came from, in other words, there was NO ROT at the source. All the nails holding the stool were rusted through and there was a serious canyon eroded in the plaster below it---beneath the formica--- but the fir sill and stool have no rot whatsoever. This is after years of water transmission, enough to completely rot the much larger 2x4s below. Why didn't the window members rot too? Because they drain and breathe. The 2x4 kickers lying flat below and caulked tight at the rim of the tub couldn't drain OR breathe, and they rotted completely away. Same wood, btw, Douglas Fir. It's astounding how many Seattle homes were built ON THE DIRT with fir and/or cedar plinths around the turn of the century---people in my circle buy these homes regularly, and they always seem to need a little help. After 80 or 100 years resting on the soil, it ain't surprising. I'd use red cedar or douglas fir for planking a planterbox (or cypress, if I could get it) with weeping spaces between the slats if I's going for higher beds---mine's planned for about 30" high, btw, and I can't imagine going to all the effort to build a planter box that you still have to bend over to weed. At tabletop height, it's a picnic to seed and weed. Mine's 11' by 4' overall, (conceptually---at this point it's just posts set for those dimensions and a pile of scrounged cedar planks). With access to three sides, everything's within reach---I expect there'll be some outward bowing of the 11' sides of the box, but I don't care, it'll look cool. It's a feature. The bottom 10" of the box, BTW, is my sanitary landfill, where all the remodeling plaster waste, sifted rocks and inert garbage around my property is destined to go..I may put that Sears Aluminum Garden Shed under there, too, if I can get it demolished in time. Gonna grow those big round dark green watermelons, tomatoes and peppers. You'd think that it ain't hot enough, or sunny enough in Seattle to properly raise these things, but it's being done every year by friends of mine--tomatoes and peppers anyway, and how much more sun does Seattle get in the summer than N California? About 10%, is my guess. Treated lumber? I wouldn't use it to chock the wheels on my truck. It's BS, plain, utter and simple. I will happily entertain disputes from anyone who has more experience than me with the stuff, as long as it's not SALES experience. best to you; GAM in West Seattle How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158204 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-14 07:34:51 Subject: Oak Floor Ideas Sought GG's A friend of mine lives in an 8 year old house with Oak floors (pretty standard 3" T&G strips). The floor had some surface wear, and she decided to have them refinished. Up to this time, the floor had functioned very well. The only problem was some surface scratches. I would not have elected to have them sanded down to bare wood, but that was her decision, and she had somebody do just that. The floors were sanded, and the workers put down three coats of some water based finish. I am sure it was water based, but I am not sure of the brand. They said it was a "sealer". After these coats had been down about 2 weeks, she accidentally spilled a small spot of water based cleaner on the floor, and this cleaner immediately went through the finish and penetrated the wood. It was very clear that the cleaner went through the finish and darkened the wood itself. One adjacent room had not been refinished, and we tested the cleaner on that original finish: noting happened. The cleaning solution sat on the finish for 30 minutes, and the finish showed no signs of anything once the solution had been wiped up (One could not tell it had been on the finish at all). This is just what one would want from a finish. Once I saw this, I concluded that the "sealer" that had been applied was not sufficient. A little on-line research lead me to "Parks Pro" water based polyurethane finish which we bought at the local (orange) Borg. The refinishers agreed to put down two coats of this finish. This solved the problem of a water based cleaner penetrating the finish. Now for the real problem, on which I seek your advice and expertise: The floor was refinished in October '05 (in the Chicago area). By late December, the oak floor boards began to separate, I assume as the humidity lowered due to central Forced Air Gas (FAG) heat. Note that the house never had any problems with the oak flooring shrinking or separating in the previous 7 winters, and a central air system humidifier was in place and functioning in the FAG heating system. The shrinkage has been substantial. There is a noticeable separation between the floor boards about every 1 to 2 feet. These separations range from 1/32" to 3/32". As the weather has started to warm up, and the air is more humid, the gaps between the boards have decreased a little. I suspect that the wood will swell back to its full size once the central heat is turned off, and higher humidity has been with us for a month or two. At that time, I'd like to find a better water based finish if possible, and apply it over the current finish w/o taking it down to bare wood if possible. So, here are my questions: 1) Can you think of another likely explanation that would make my solution unworkable? 2) I did not see the application of the first two coats of "sealer", but it was not a traditional paste filler (applied wet, wiped in and then sanded when dry): The pores of the oak are still open to some degree. Would the lack of filler be a sufficient reason to cause this problem? 3) If you think my diagnosis is correct, can you suggest a water based finish that would provide an effective moisture barrier and thus control shrinkage? Thanks in advance for your individual and collective knowledge. Chris 4) If more than additional finish is needed ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158205 ---- From: Don McConnell Date: 2006-03-14 07:02:36 Subject: Re: C.T.Skelton Hand Saw Peter Robinson asked about: >... this poor old handsaw - it's my first so it's going to get some >care and attention. Hopefully I'll be able to bring it back to the >living, though I'm not quite sure what it was meant to be at it's >inception. > >Here's a shot of the beast - the blade is about 25" long. >http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id > >... >Is it worth the effort? > Well, I'm not going to attempt an answer as to whether this sad example of a saw is worth the effort needed to revive it, but the posting of your question has added to my knowledge about British saws. We have known of C. T. Skelton & Co as a maker of light and heavy edge tools, with these working dates (tentative) and locations: Skelton & Co., Charles Thomas Sheffield 1868 - 1927 Hackenthorpe Sheaf Bank Works, Heeley [1879 - 1911] (Limited by 1905) 14 Sheaf Bank/23 Gleadless Road [1927] While light edge tools of their manufacture are extant, this firm seems to have been best known for heavy edge tools such as spades, billhooks, etc. This is the first mention, I've seen, of a saw purporting to be of their manufacture. Though, it is possible it was made by another manufacturer and sold under their mark. According to directory listings, they became a limited firm some time between 1901 and 1905. If your saw doesn't have the "LTD" mark, it likely predates 1905 - that may help narrow down its age a little. Hope this is of a little interest. Don McConnell Eureka Springs, AR (About to head East in a few minutes - "going for the beech") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158206 ---- From: "paul schobernd" Date: 2006-03-14 07:03:49 Subject: RE: Re: boiling oil John, Tom and GGs--I cannot pass up such a juicy or shall we substantive conversation on the scatological nature of Kerosene! The Kero I buy by the gallon at the local Ace mini-borg, by the gallon, is crystal clear and stays that way save over time water will form on the bottom of the container. With all deference to Dave Barry, I ain't never seen anything even closely scat related in my Kero. Maybe Dave got a batch of #2 scatological diesel fuel! As a hydrocarbon it has its own unique particular odor which no doubt releases many other chemical as it evaporate. If I use it outside it is just fine. It is a great solvent, but evaporates slowly on anything porous where it sinks into--say cloth or automobile carpeting. Never tried it on wood handles, but have used it to loosen gunk on rusty old tools and tar on the car. I use somebody else's toothbrush, however, to do the scrubbing. It leaves a light oily film temporarily IME. My nasty comments regarding Kero and migraines were a purely idiosyncratic issue. Most people do not have that reaction. I am just very sensitive to hydrocarbon odours, so you can't generalize from my experience. I have found that I prefer liquid paraffin because it works as well and doesn't stink and does well in most of the oil lamps as well. Somebody asked why you would use a solvent with BLO and my limited experience simply indicates that BLO doesn't seem to absorb into wood as well by itself. It stays on the surface and often leaves a tacky feel to the tool even if you rub like crazy. Can't say for sure what is being absorbed, but it seems to leave an oil finish on the wood that is protective if renewed periodically. Paul in Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools- > bounces@r...] On Behalf Of John Manners > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:06 PM > To: Tom Holloway; Galoots > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: boiling oil > > Tom Holloway writes, quoting Dave Berry: > > > Kerosene is also _mainly_ saturated hydrocarbons, but it's chock full > > of all kinds of aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene, not to > > mention generic impurities known around the chem lab by the technical > > terms "brown gunk" or sh*t. One of the reasons it's so cheap is that > > it costs money to refine (purify) kerosene into mineral spirits. Pure > > hydrocarbons are colorless, last kerosene I saw was almost orange pink. > > Kerosene in Oz used to be gin-clear, no evident "brown gunk" or > turdological > contamination, and was quite often bought in bulk in four-gallon tins or > drums, leading to the storage of small amounts for use (heating, cooking, > refrigerating, lighting etc.) in bottles. Unfortunately, some persons > chose > to store it in clear soft-drink (soda?) bottles with the result that on > more > occasions than was helpful for the purposes of populating this land it was > swallowed by children. A result of all this was that some years ago > legislation was introduced requiring that kerosene be coloured blue. It's > hard to fathom, but not long after blue kerosene appeared on the market > the > soft-drink manufacturers decided that what the kiddies really needed was > blue lemonade. Ain't commerce wonderful? > > Maybe the kerosene of Oz is the equivalent of the mineral spirits of U.S., > although it was always thought that the product called "Shellite" was such > equivalent? > > Regards from Brisbane > > John Manners > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158207 ---- From: Alan DuBoff Date: 2006-03-13 21:18:09 Subject: Re: Oak Floor Ideas Sought On Tuesday 14 March 2006 04:34 am, Chris Berger wrote: > 3) If you think my diagnosis is correct, can you suggest a water based > finish that would provide an effective moisture barrier and thus control > shrinkage? > Thanks in advance for your individual and collective knowledge. Not sure how helpful I can be, but I use a water based finish from Benjimin Moore which is pretty easy to use. I actually have it on my kitchen cabinets, per a friend's reccomendation. Might sound odd, but in the kitchen if you use laquer and splash the counters, they get spots on them, and this floor finish is very durable and shows the natural color of the wood. The other products I can reccomend is Sansin, quite a few log home folks like these products and I've used clear over knotty pine in my office. They have decking stain and finish, but not flooring. I laid wood floor not long ago in my office, but it was pre-finished. I was actually quite pleased with it, Bellawood, was cheap and fairly good quality product. One thing you need to watch out for is the thickness of the top layer of wood. If the flooring is 3/8" there's a very, very, thin top layer, if you look at a cross section of the t&g. With 3/4" it's substantially more, and about twice as thick. I used 3/4" in case I do need to sand it in the future. But this finish is guaranteed for 50 years, whatever that means...I don't live another 50 years I don't think...:-/ -- Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158208 ---- From: Hunter.COX@i... Date: 2006-03-14 09:47:36 Subject: Re: The Road To Damascus - Finale Following up on Tony's post - now everyone knows I am not an older distinguished gentleman! - this was my first PATINA sale, and it was great. Got to meet Tony Seo and Slav, plus saw a bunch of RATS from Richmond up there and other miscellaneous dealers that I see around at shows. Got more stuff than I should have but I was like a kid in a candy store. Got a MF Cigar Shave, and a bunch of odds and ends from the dealers, Stuck around for the auction, got some good stuff there, a $20 271 mini-router and a $40 #46, looks to be a type 3 or 4, with just one cutter though -. not like I was stealing 'em but those were 2 things on my wish list. Was staying with the in-laws up there and they were amazed that I could spend the entire day at a tool show and not get bored. If you haven't been and are in driving distance, make sure that you go to the next PATINA sale, it is worth the drive. Now, a WTB, anybody have any cutters for a #46? I realize that St James Bay has new ones but if there are some floating around that need a nice home.... Hunter in Richmond This message and all attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Neither Degremont Group nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158209 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-14 10:10:12 Subject: LFOD Auction Report (Long and as windy as the day) GG's I had the pleasure of seeing Steve L & Steve N at LFOD last Saturday in Indy. It was quite a good auction, and I thought you might enjoy a short report. (I was not able to make the Friday auction, but heard that it was well attended, with very brisk bidding.) Rain was threatening, and indeed the skies opened up before the auction started. Consequently, there was no outside tail gaiting action. There were about 6 dealers set up inside, but I did not have time to see what they were offering (other than Don Rosebrook with many fancy plow planes). There were some interesting items in the auction, although I did not think that there was as many (total) items as past LFOD auctions. Still, most of the items (with occasional exceptions) were clean, undamaged and in Good+ or better condition. One interesting (and to me unexpected) aspect of this auction is that there were a lot of floor bidders. I would guess about 125 - 150 people on the floor. This is probably close to double typical in person attendance for the past three or four years. Another very positive characteristic was that many of these were new faces. (Martin commented to me later that he thought there were about 50% of the floor bidders were new folks.) Roughly half of the sales were to floor bidders, and the rest absentee. Overall, I thought that prices were strong, with some notable exceptions. On the weak end, most Stanley lots sold for the low end (or even less) than their estimates. (I thought the estimates were quite realistic.) Only a few exceptions to that such as a Bedrock 604 1/2c for $550, and a less than Good- Bedrock 602 for $525, and a crisp No.2 with most of its original decal on the tote for $440, and a 444 in the box (with often missing lid) for $1100. Stanley No 87 scraper plane $1600. Prices, BTW are rounded and include the 10% buyers fee. Interesting categories and items include: 1) Tape measures were strong all day, with a highlight being a lufkin advertising tape for $440. (Slav, you are a rich man!) I think there were 5 or 6 tape measure lots (most all in fine condition) and they pretty much went for high estimates or above. 2) Wood planes of noted makers, or makers from the Midwest, South or South east were very strong (Eastern US & English makers, were more reasonably priced) E. W. Carpenter 22" ship rabbet $550 Toted Ohio Tool moving fillister $300 Spafford, Belford Ohio quarter round $300 Extra wide complex molder (no maker) $300 Cinci King & Fugate Gothic bead $275 Handled Mahogany plow by A Howland $440 Wooding Rebate $245 Unmarked rosewood 22" jointer $225 Ohio Tool No 58 Screw arm fillister $550 ! (I have an extra if you are interested) 72" Cooper's jointer (with splits and patches) $310 8.25" wide crown molder (no makers mark) $1650 3) Hammers strong all day: Patented glazier's hammer $250 Fancy jeweler's hammer $250 File-makers $225 Hammer lapel pin $135 4) Plumb bobs strong Group of 5 (not outstanding) $400 Preston 2" $135 "Detroit Lubricator" 8" (coolest Bob there says the Indiana boy that got her) $385 Classic turnip 4" (fine) $250 Classic turnip 5" (fine) $275 4) Perfect handle tools were very strong 6" "S" handle adjustable wrench (fine) $250 Folding/triple handle screwdriver (fine) $365 5) Patented and special planes seemed quite strong (most at or above high estimate) Four Multiform rabbets with handle $1325 Pair of ebony & brass coach makers planes $1,000 Phillips improved plow (w/irons) $1,325 6) Wrenches I don't follow, but one caught my eye: Duebber's "patent applied for" Double ugly at $2,250.00 (You read that right!) 7) Saws generally solid to strong all day with a highlight being a Pete Turan (Independence Tool) 9" backsaw with rosewood tote new cond. $550 Atkins No. 53 Rip $165 All Disstons pretty strong, but not crazy 7) Levels were generally solid Nine inch Stanley No 98 $440 9" rosewood & Brass English level $225 Davis 7" inclinometer $550 8) Tool chests (at least 5 nice ones) went consistently below estimates. There didn't seem to be any or many absentee bids on these and I am guessing shipping costs would have been prohibitive. Really changes the dynamics of the auction. 52" Small workbench with vice (Good) $275 9) A few rulers were strong, but most were priced quite reasonably. The highest: Stanley No. 036 combination rule, level, etc. $550 Stanley No 40, 12" 4 fold English-Metric Ivory rule $1,100 Stanley 40 1/2 ivory $330 10) Gauges were pretty strong Brown & Berry six stem $3850 Winslow Pat $200 Marshall's machinist gauge $550 Fisher Pat bevel (Disston & Morse) $770 Nester Patent marking gauge $330 Decorative brass marking gauge (no maker's mark) $300 11) Ivory tipped plow planes were (with one exception) out of sight! S.H. Porter (made by Ohio Tool) rosewood & fine $2,100 (and the new fellow said that he wasn't interested in the mark, just wanted an ivory tipped rosewood plow!) G Auld Sandusky center wheel replica w/6 ivory tips (15 years old) $2,550 (The center wheel was loose, and the center arm would not turn with normal finger pressure.) D R Barton unhandled rosewood ivory tipped plow $2,420 Casey & Co unhandled rosewood ivory tipped plow $1,210 (Go Figure!) A Howland toted boxwood ivory tipped plow $800 (the exception to the pattern, I thought as I tucked her under my arm.....No, that is certainly not gloatable, but I was happy!) Americana like tools and implements were also strong. As I left the auction with my good friend, Jan Cover (Long time tool collector, former Galoot and Philosophy Professor) I commented that it seemed to me that the old tool market is really picking up steam, with prices for midrange as well as high end items really gaining. Jan said "One auction does not a trend make......could have been cabin fever and the first big auction of the year." To which, I must agree that the ragged old Professor may well be correct! It will be interesting to watch Brown, LFOD and other good auctions (like Darley's Barn on August 26, 2006) as the season unfolds. And, if you like Stanley, this may be an excellent time to be a disciplined buyer! (Try some low-ball absentee bids if you can't attend.) Ok, time to get to work. Regards to all. Chris, in sunny and cool West Lafayette, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158210 ---- From: Chris Berger Date: 2006-03-14 10:53:34 Subject: C D Dickinson Hammer GG;s I came across a broom maker's hammer by C. D. Dickinson & Son. DAT lists them as makers of broom makers hammers, but has no date or location. Does anybody have any additional information on tis company? TIA Chris....finding too many reasons to play with tools instead of working this morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158211 ---- From: scott grandstaff Date: 2006-03-14 07:59:34 Subject: Re: Re: boiling oil Hey Bruce Yup, you know. Most wouldn't. Trimming lampwick for maximum reliable light with no soot is a major challenge. Simple as it seems at first thought. I'm looking out the window at light snow on top of 6-8" . Could be trimming wicks tonight! And Paul, it's weird what people will develop an allergy to. I can't take much paint thinner/parts solvent. Kerosene hasn't ever bothered me, dirty or not. But to wash even a small bush out in poorly circulating air and I'll be reaching for the aspirin bigtime. This is not supposed to be possible from a chemical standpoint. Wish someone would convince my head. I can take more laquer thinner than ordinary paint thinner. Must be an exposure thing. BLO sinks into wood as the wood lets it. Pine end grain, you can't even get it wet however many coats you use. Face grain maple, it hardly sinks in at all. All the oaks will take some and need it bad, including zebra. Rosewoods variable but mostly only very little and cocobolo, same as zip. Fruitwood ain't fruitwood without it. I don't thin it. I'll slosh it on from a dish soap bottle and rub in with my fingers alone (who needs soaked rags?) give it some time and wipe back off. Never needed thinner. I don't consider it a finish. Oil finish alone tends to go black in time. Not exactly what you wanted from your birdseye or quilted grain. Best finish prep I know though. Everything, save certain acrylic enamels, will go over it and love it. yours, Scott *** Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 **** Tools:http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158212 ---- From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: 2006-03-14 08:45:38 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane On 14 Mar 2006 at 11:43, paul womack wrote: > Correct names notwithstanding, does anyone (else!) think > that the grooving plane may well have been used > for drawer bottoms? That's how I used to make them before I had any plow/plough planes - I just used the groove half of a tongue and groove pair. Not adjustable in my case, but it was where I wanted it anyway. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Rd., Santa Rosa, CA 95404 http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm Visit the oldtools book list at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/booklist.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158213 ---- From: "Luis Martins" Date: 2006-03-14 17:16:00 Subject: Bow saw v.s. Frame saw Dear list members, While researching on some of the tools I plan to build, I came across what seems to be the two names for the same tool. "Bow saw" and "Frame saw". Is there a difference between the two? Is it just the same of the frame? Also, I believe I've seen some Bow/Frame saws without the handles, in which case I assume in this case the blade is fixed at a given angle, whereas the ones with the handles allow the angle to be change, something I consider more useful in a turning saw. Can someone shed some light on this matter? Regards, Luis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158214 ---- From: Christopher Swingley Date: 2006-03-14 08:29:29 Subject: Re: Bow saw v.s. Frame saw Luis, * Luis Martins [2006-Mar-14 08:16 AKST]: > While researching on some of the tools I plan to build, I came across > what seems to be the two names for the same tool. "Bow saw" and "Frame > saw". Is there a difference between the two? Is it just the same of > the frame? Attempting to jump the gun on BugBear, check out this thread from the Archives: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?messag- e_id=94855&submit_thread=1 A nice discussion of the differences between these two. My impression is that a frame saw is used for resawing and has a fixed blade in the middle of the saw. A bow saw is used for cutting curves (or straight cuts), and has the blade along one edge rather than in the middle. Bow saws also generally allow you to turn the blade relative to the "frame". Cheers, Chris -- Christopher S. Swingley University of Alaska Fairbanks cswingle@i... http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/ OldTools Searchable Archive: http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158215 ---- From: Jim McVicar Date: 2006-03-14 14:44:54 Subject: Dogwood Eventually, I would like to make a traditional plough plane. I picture something in walnut with all the brass trimmings. I have a screw box and tap that are the ideal size for the arms and I want a secondary wood that will take a nice thread and be strong enough to resist any stresses that are transferred from the fence. I noticed Lee Valley sells dogwood (Cornus florida) blocks at a good price. They describe it as being close grained and great for handles and turning. Would this be a suitable wood for my plough arms? What about the walnut? Thanks, Jim Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158216 ---- From: "Rodgers Charles" Date: 2006-03-14 14:04:54 Subject: RE: Dogwood Jim: FWIW, I have some (several, actually) of those LV dogwood blocks in both sizes. I have some pics posted on GIC of a mallet I made from it and black walnut. My usage places the female threads in the dogwood and the male threads in the walnut, but I think doing it vice-versa would work just as well. Both threaded very well with a cheap Harbor Freight 3/4" wood threader. I've also turned some candle stands from the dogwood. I like the wood a lot! The directions that came with my threader strongly recommend that the wood be well oiled prior to threading. I slathered it in BLO and let it soak for about an hour. It worked just fine although it did darken the wood just a little. Here's a link to a pic of the mallet: http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1035 I think you'd be safe using the dogwood, but don't know enough to offer an opinion on the walnut. Charlie Rodgers, Clinton, Maryland > I noticed Lee Valley sells dogwood (Cornus florida) blocks at a good price. > They describe it as being close grained and great for handles and turning. > Would this be a suitable wood for my plough arms? What about the walnut? > Thanks, > Jim > Saint John, NB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158217 ---- From: M P Smoak Date: 2006-03-14 14:36:42 Subject: Re: what wood to use for raised bed gardens? with OT On Monday 13 March 2006 08:11, James DuPrie wrote: > Time to turn the Oldtools to their spring tasks.... I need to make > some raised beds for our vegetable gardens. I'm planning on something > fairly simple - 3'x6'x10" deep, with 4x4 corners, and 2x10 sides. The I set out to do a similar plan 20+ years ago; asked similar questions and read lots of books, ... and came up with a very functional, highly productive, easily maintained garden. > So the question is: whats the best material to use for the raised > beds? I hate PT (and wouldn't use it for a veg garden anyway). I was > thinking white cedar, but I don't know if a cedar plank will hold up > to the weight of the dirt pushing out without developing major bows. > While looks aren't that important, I'd rather avoid things like Think several time about looks; see below. > .... but I'm worried about the rough stuff > throwing splinters (lots of small fry around here, and in the garden > all summer long). .... > > Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated - especially if you've done > something like this before, and can report on the durability..... > > > Thanks > --JD What I found in my asking and reading was that I didn't need any wood or other containment for the beds at all. 4ft x 8ft beds, 6in. high worked great and with not having containment, they were easy to till with hand tools or a small tiller. The was 5 rows of 3 4x8beds xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx xx|xx|xx with 2ft paths between beds. Worked great; beautifully productive and easy to maintain. Mistakes I made: paths should have been wider; it looked like a horse cemetery in winter. I lost that garden several years ago when we built a new garage. A key IMHO to maintaining a bed garden is to never step into (much less walk) into a bed once it's built. The hauling off of the old garage waste and hauling in and staging of the new material wrecked the garden. I'm just now getting ready to build it again. This time it will have 4 L shaped beds around a rectangular center bed with paths at least 3ft. So unless you really need containment, don't do it. Layout the beds; till a bed, then dig it out 3-4in deep (put dirt in path or on a tarp) and till the bed again. Replace the soil you dug out mixing in lots of good compost and if you have lots of clay like we do, mix in course builders sand to improve drainage (fine, sandbox type sand won't work). Lots of work upfront but well worth it longterm. And teach git's, and others who don't know, that stepping or walking in a bed will greatly injure it and simply is not done. There are situations where containment is needed. A few years ago I bought a few old tools from a yard sale where the gent in his late 70's had a beautiful garden with beds in containers 2x8ft x 16in deep made of exterior plywood, painted and lined with plastic film with drainage holes. Each container was about three feet off the lawn on 4x4in legs sitting on concrete pads. Looked great, very productive, easy for him to maintain with not bending, etc. He said they were about 15 years old. Good luck with your garden, JT and all, and cross your fingers for me. I've found the compost I need; looking now for someone to haul it in and someone more fit than me to help me do that upfront work. Marv in Lexington KY where what's that, is it spring I see... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158218 ---- From: "Bill Fariss" Date: 2006-03-14 14:52:00 Subject: miter templates question I purchased two Brass miter templates awhile back. One is a Tyzack and one is a Preston. The difference between the two is that one is solid and one is a frame. Both are about the same size. I have been using the solid unit with no problems. I have not used the frame type because I am not clear as to how you attach it to the wood you want to miter. Does anyone have any information as to why a maker would design a miter template that is essentially a frame and not solid? Is that type of template designed for a certain type of miter work? I would appreciate any insight into this problem I have. Bill Fariss Sterling, Va ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158219 ---- From: nicknaylo@a... Date: 2006-03-14 14:53:59 Subject: Re: GIT Sculpture... My kid is 6 but at 3 all she did in the shop was play with sawdust, paint on the lower cabinet doors smear glue all over scraps blocks and make sculptures. Its all good, a kid familier with the shop is a kid who sees the value in hand skills, is not afraid to build stuff and will learn about patience, if only from letting the glue dry. Those enclosed gear hand drills, Sears or Dunlap are great additions to the GIT kit, and the edge tool use is under extreme supervision. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Jason Knight To: oldtools@r... Sent: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [OldTools] GIT Sculpture... Whew! How old is the GIT? I spent some quality time with the 3 year old this weekend. I was planing some pieces of trim work, GIT was using his shovel to scoop up the shavings, I wasn't looking and he hooked the shovel on something, forced it free, and whallopped the dickens out of my finger. I actually don't know if he whallopped the dickens out of it, but he did whallop some blood and some unfortunate vocabulary out of me. I'm not sure we're ready for edge tools yet, but he's a big fan of the egg beater drill. I picked up another last week at the liberty tools season opening sale, partly to be a beginning of the GIT toolbox. Nothing particularly gloat worthy from the tool sale, other than a swmbo who gave me a gift certificate for old tools and a 3 year old GIT who put up with an amazingly crowded shop (both people and tools) for over an hour as daddy wandered around in a daze. For those that may be curious, $50 got me 2 rabbet planes (1" and 1.5"), the egg beater, a draw knife, and two chisels (3/4" looks hand forged, mushroomed socket, and 5/8" , crummy handle, but blade and socket look good). None of it looks to be much beyond user quality, but that's what I need. Jason ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158220 ---- From: "john" Date: 2006-03-14 13:25:22 Subject: RE: Oak Floor Ideas Sought Hi Chris and other GGs, First this is long, so if you're not interested in floor finishes, just move along. One caveat, I do a lot of finishing; I don't do a lot of floor finishing, but know those who do. And, if anyone wants to make any corrections, feel free. First, the sanding. If you're going to refinish an oak floor, sanding it down to bare wood is usually a good idea. You can sand or screen it lightly and recoat, but practically, finishes wear unevenly, some scratches and gouges will be found to have gone down to the wood, sand-throughs are easy, and it just makes for a better, more even job. Plus, you don't save much money. I agree with Alan DuBoff, who warned about sanding thin wood, which is especially recommended (i.e., the warning) with newer houses. However, this should not be a problem for any professional (or probably anyone), especially on the first refinish. Usually, you can just check by removing a heating/cooling vent or by removing a bit of shoe mold and baseboard. Next, sealers. Sealers are increasingly used by contractors -- think of them of wiping varnishes -- very thin. They are not surface finishes. They are kind of misnomer. They are a finish, not a preliminary finishing step. They are thin enough they really don't set on the wood, but soak into the wood, so there was never much "finish" for your cleaner to go through. Sealers are said to "wear with the wood" because they are in the surface, not on the surface, so the pores of the wood would definitely appear more open. Most of them are oil based but there are water-based products too and, generally, they wear equally well. Contractors like the water-based products because they are pretty durable, the job goes faster because of the short drying time, which also means less dust in the finish. Also, clients don't spend two weeks complaining about the odor. Sealers are definitely not grain fillers. Whether you can use a filler with a sealer, I'm not sure. I tend to doubt it. Sealers will definitely need more consistent maintenance than surface finishes but the maintenance is easier and cheaper. And each successive coat contributes to the depth of the finish. In bygone days, when people actually waxed their floors, they did it because wax was the cap on this kind of finish. And, while it took work, it also looked beautiful. However, wax or these finishes are not going to look like a gloss or semi-gloss film finish that lies on the surface. It's also never going to resist scratches, stains, etc. like a surface finish. That doesn't make it a poor finish, it's just different than a surface finish. And finally, water-based cleaning products will(!) definitely damage sealers. A lot of them have ammonia and that is poison for water-based finishes. In fact, I don't water-based cleaners are good for any sealer. I wish I knew about the chemistry of it, but I'm sure one of the chemists out there does. The finishers of your friend's floor should have advised him/her about how to maintain the floor and what the manufacturer's recommendations were. Without seeing the floor, I'm guessing that the seasonal movement of the floor boards has always been there; it was noticed after the finishing because the floor was being watched more closely. Replacing a film finish with a sealer might exacerbate the phenomenon, but the new finish hasn't affected the ends, edges and bottom of the boards. To my knowledge, this happens to all hardwood floors to varying degrees. Putting a film finish on top probably won't greatly affect this. Adding more coats of sealer probably won't either. Since the current finish is fully cured, you shouldn't have a problem recoating with a good water-based poly. I would screen the surface first, but I don't think you have to do anything else. I do not think the added film finish would be an overall advantage, but it is certainly a different look and a film finish does provide certain protections a penetrating finish does not. I cannot see any great drawbacks to recoating the floors. However, if your friend plans to stay in the house many years (who does nowadays, anyway), the floor will probably last longer with a sealer because it will see fewer sandings; also those sandings are expensive. Hope this helps. John Quinn In Santa Rosa for the rest of this week ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158221 ---- From: Pghpensfan@a... Date: 2006-03-14 17:18:54 Subject: Out of lurk mode: Marples Brace opinions sought.. Esteemed Galoots, Was in lurk mode for some time, set to Digest mode, due to increased expectations from "The Man." (work) But glad to be back to the porch. I have recently stumbled apon an R. Marples Brass plated beech brace in so - so condition, the biggest problem being multiple cracks in the beech. The rosewood pad is beautiful (one tight check), all brass intact with nice patina. My question is this - I am inclined to fashion a new body for this brace from an exotic wood and utilize all the hardware and pad on the new body, effectively making a brace which is half new and half old. Any opinions as to whether this is a good idea or am I destroying history here? Will take 2 turns at the spittoons to make up for time lost....... Wm. West ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158222 ---- From: Gregory Isola Date: 2006-03-14 14:57:22 Subject: Dovetail aid Hey, all: This might be semi-old news to some, but I just got the latest LV catalog last night, and there's a new doohickey that might help some with their dovetail layout: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=53673&cat=51&ap=1 I'm a BIG fan of the right-angle clamp as dovetailing aid, as espoused by our very own bugbear: http://www.geocities.com/plybench/tour.html#dovetail_marking These new thingies might help in the very same way, and their alleged one-hand operation seems a plus when working with lightweight stock. If I hadn't picked up a pair of vintage Stanley corner clamps at a garage sale for cheap, I'd be interested... Greg Isola Alameda, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158223 ---- From: "Yarrow, Gary" Date: 2006-03-14 17:09:35 Subject: RE: Mystical Dovetail Joint This is the same technique, applied to a mallet. I knew I saw this somewhere, Google helped out. http://www.ilovewood.com/woodworker.htm Gary Gary Yarrow Two Herbs Workshop 819 Harvey Dunn St. Brookings, SD 57006-0896 www.twoherbs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158224 ---- From: "Alan Perreault" Date: 2006-03-14 18:42:16 Subject: Old Wrenches Fellow Galoots, This website of old wrenches may be of interest to some. http://alloy-artifacts.home.comcast.net/ Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Start of Message 158225 ---- From: Gary Roberts Date: 2006-03-14 18:44:27 Subject: Re: drawer bottom grooving plane Thanks to Paul's advice, I redid the image minus Exif data and now it behaves... http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3657 Gary On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:43 AM, paul womack wrote: > Gary Roberts wrote: >> Paul >> When I picked up one of these Marples planes a year or so ago, I >> too thought it was a drawer bottom plane. But alas, no. The Buck >> & Hickman catalog of 1953 lists this is a grooving plane, to be >> paired with a separate purchase tongue plane for the mundane >> tongue & groove joints. > > Dang. He's right, and my ignorance is revealed > (and remedied, of course :-). > > Here's a more subtle reference from 1935 Buck & Hickman: > http://www.roseantiquetools.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/ > show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http:// > roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpi